1 00:00:03,049 --> 00:00:05,389 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast? 2 00:00:06,730 --> 00:00:09,220 Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to Deep Dive. We're back for 3 00:00:09,228 --> 00:00:12,149 Speaker 1: another exciting episode this week because it's about something we 4 00:00:12,159 --> 00:00:14,189 Speaker 1: all love here in Singapore. We're talking, 5 00:00:14,399 --> 00:00:14,649 Speaker 2: so 6 00:00:14,659 --> 00:00:16,180 Speaker 2: we are talking about Hawker food. 7 00:00:16,190 --> 00:00:16,379 Speaker 1: Yes. 8 00:00:16,389 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 2: Exactly. Ok, Steve, what's your favorite Hawker 9 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 2: meal? 10 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:25,590 Speaker 1: I like my Hokkien me, my chocolate, my carrot cake, 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:32,110 Speaker 1: my BC, me, my Nasi goring. I mean, just this one. Ok. Sorry. 12 00:00:33,110 --> 00:00:34,750 Speaker 2: Ok. What is the most expensive, most 13 00:00:35,250 --> 00:00:36,299 Speaker 2: expensive 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:42,900 Speaker 1: these days? I've been patronizing this BC Me stall. Which, yeah, 15 00:00:42,909 --> 00:00:45,130 Speaker 1: the noodles. It's about 10 bucks A B. 16 00:00:45,909 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. And, and it, it tastes really good. I mean, 17 00:00:49,090 --> 00:00:52,569 Speaker 1: and it has slightly better quality ingredients, but there's no 18 00:00:52,580 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: like fancy stuff in that. I 19 00:00:54,689 --> 00:00:57,860 Speaker 2: mean, nothing fancy. Just a normal bowl of about 10 20 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,330 Speaker 2: bucks in town. 21 00:00:59,779 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: No, no. And there's always a queue, although tell everyone 22 00:01:01,849 --> 00:01:03,810 Speaker 1: where it is because now there'll be a lot even longer. 23 00:01:03,939 --> 00:01:09,309 Speaker 2: Exactly. Ok. So recently I was at Adam Road Food Center, right? 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: You know that one, I wanted to buy a bowl 25 00:01:11,809 --> 00:01:14,449 Speaker 2: of prawn noodle. And so I was quite confused 26 00:01:14,540 --> 00:01:16,879 Speaker 2: as to the options anyway. So when I pick something 27 00:01:16,889 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 2: and the girl looks at me and she says it's $15. 28 00:01:21,129 --> 00:01:21,519 Speaker 1: Ok. 29 00:01:21,529 --> 00:01:22,980 Speaker 2: And I was like, why 30 00:01:22,989 --> 00:01:23,519 Speaker 1: is it 15 31 00:01:23,529 --> 00:01:27,500 Speaker 1: dollars? Because you had the pork rib and the big prawns? So, 32 00:01:27,510 --> 00:01:27,519 Speaker 2: I 33 00:01:27,529 --> 00:01:29,389 Speaker 2: was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I just want 34 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 2: the regular thing. Right. And the regular bowl, of course, 35 00:01:33,970 --> 00:01:36,870 Speaker 2: the prawn was much smaller. It was like, maybe half 36 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:37,599 Speaker 2: the price. 37 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:39,089 Speaker 1: 67 bucks. But 38 00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:39,250 Speaker 2: I 39 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:39,470 Speaker 1: saw, 40 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:39,500 Speaker 2: I 41 00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: was thinking 15 sounds high. Right. 42 00:01:43,449 --> 00:01:46,349 Speaker 1: It does. But if you were in a food court 43 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,290 Speaker 1: or a restaurant, you wouldn't bat an eye. It. 44 00:01:48,309 --> 00:01:51,430 Speaker 2: So, on the other end of the spectrum where I live, 45 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:55,870 Speaker 2: I go to Chong Pang Food Center and I, I 46 00:01:55,879 --> 00:01:59,569 Speaker 2: have to say that sometimes I actually feel bad when 47 00:01:59,580 --> 00:02:06,790 Speaker 2: I pay $2 to get like a plate of three delicious. 48 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,448 Speaker 2: But it's like maybe about five 49 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:09,570 Speaker 1: pieces, like, 50 00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:11,109 Speaker 2: yeah, of four pieces or whatever 51 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,779 Speaker 2: and oil, 52 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,649 Speaker 1: a bit of trip. Yeah. But we do love our 53 00:02:16,660 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: Hawker food, right? I mean, there's so much variety. It 54 00:02:19,729 --> 00:02:22,179 Speaker 1: tastes so good and to a large extent, it is 55 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:23,100 Speaker 1: very affordable. 56 00:02:23,758 --> 00:02:24,339 Speaker 2: It is. 57 00:02:24,788 --> 00:02:26,649 Speaker 1: So, so I think that, you know, people 58 00:02:26,660 --> 00:02:29,209 Speaker 2: kick up a fuss if I'm surprised you don't mind 59 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:30,820 Speaker 2: paying the $10 for your bowl. 60 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, not all the time, not every day, 61 00:02:33,970 --> 00:02:34,710 Speaker 1: once in a while. 62 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:35,309 Speaker 2: Ok. What's your 63 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,149 Speaker 2: upper limit? Like, when would you say 64 00:02:37,669 --> 00:02:40,899 Speaker 1: it's too expensive? Beyond 10 bucks? Like beyond 12 bucks 65 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:43,850 Speaker 1: for sure. But it also depends if I'm getting a 66 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:47,049 Speaker 1: plate of Nasi Lemak has got a huge piece of chicken. 67 00:02:47,059 --> 00:02:48,630 Speaker 1: It's got the o and the egg and all that. 68 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,769 Speaker 1: Then you kind of think, ok, maybe not, you know, 69 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:53,698 Speaker 1: but if it's just a bowl of noodles, then yeah, 70 00:02:53,869 --> 00:02:55,059 Speaker 1: you would kind of think twice. 71 00:02:55,070 --> 00:02:59,139 Speaker 2: So, for comparison, a cup of latte, maybe 72 00:02:59,149 --> 00:03:00,949 Speaker 1: what it cost. Now, I, one of those fancy 73 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,019 Speaker 2: cafe $7. 74 00:03:02,029 --> 00:03:02,288 Speaker 1: Yeah, 75 00:03:03,008 --> 00:03:03,829 Speaker 2: that's my bowl 76 00:03:03,839 --> 00:03:07,380 Speaker 1: of me to eat or to drink. That is the question. 77 00:03:07,669 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: So clearly the business of hawker food is not as 78 00:03:10,330 --> 00:03:12,550 Speaker 1: simple as it seems. We all have our own favorites, 79 00:03:12,559 --> 00:03:14,949 Speaker 1: our own versions. And that's what we want to get 80 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: into today is the pressure to keep Hawker food prices 81 00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:21,380 Speaker 1: low fair to people, especially people who are doing this 82 00:03:21,389 --> 00:03:22,039 Speaker 1: for a living 83 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:27,779 Speaker 2: with us in the studio to talk about this are 84 00:03:27,788 --> 00:03:31,228 Speaker 2: Dr Theo Keke. She's a research fellow at IP S 85 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: Social Lab 86 00:03:32,288 --> 00:03:35,949 Speaker 2: at the Institute of Policy Studies. Hi, everybody. Thank you. 87 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,270 Speaker 2: And Fabian Lim co-owner of Jo Me. Hi, 88 00:03:39,279 --> 00:03:40,250 Speaker 1: thanks for having me here. 89 00:03:40,399 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: Ok. Fabian have stalls at Bukit Mirror 90 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,210 Speaker 1: and Tampines, Tampines and woodlands. Yeah. So three locations total 91 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,380 Speaker 1: of five stalls to five stas. Ok. So that's quite 92 00:03:51,389 --> 00:03:53,889 Speaker 1: a number. Now, the government announced that the number of 93 00:03:53,899 --> 00:03:56,630 Speaker 1: coffee shops offering budget meals will actually be increased to 94 00:03:56,639 --> 00:03:57,130 Speaker 1: about 95 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:03,009 Speaker 1: 330 businesses and that's to help keep food affordable for everyone, right? 96 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:06,050 Speaker 1: So you can get food from as little as $3.50 97 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:08,389 Speaker 1: drinks at a dollar 20. You can even use your 98 00:04:08,399 --> 00:04:11,679 Speaker 1: CDC vouchers. So it all sounds pretty good. But some 99 00:04:11,690 --> 00:04:14,169 Speaker 1: have criticized it. We had Edward n who wrote into 100 00:04:14,179 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: the Straits Times. He said pressure on hawkers to offer 101 00:04:16,488 --> 00:04:18,529 Speaker 1: budget meals is deeply unfair 102 00:04:18,838 --> 00:04:21,539 Speaker 1: if they want to and are able to. Then that's great. 103 00:04:21,789 --> 00:04:25,188 Speaker 1: Coffee shops are run by private sector businesses, some are 104 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:28,269 Speaker 1: publicly listed and they have duty to shareholders. So they 105 00:04:28,278 --> 00:04:31,449 Speaker 1: have to maximize profit. So hawkers operating under them are 106 00:04:31,459 --> 00:04:34,539 Speaker 1: obligated to pay rents to make a profit. So why 107 00:04:34,549 --> 00:04:36,419 Speaker 1: do we expect these hawkers to offer 108 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,659 Speaker 1: these special prices and they get a hit in their 109 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:42,980 Speaker 1: own income in a sense? What do you think Fabian? 110 00:04:42,988 --> 00:04:46,299 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? Um I think after all right, 111 00:04:46,309 --> 00:04:48,529 Speaker 1: we are still running a business. So I do agree 112 00:04:48,540 --> 00:04:51,290 Speaker 1: to a certain extent. Yeah, but you have to understand 113 00:04:51,299 --> 00:04:53,659 Speaker 1: that there are different kinds of customers like for us, right? 114 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:56,470 Speaker 1: We do our branding in certain way, like we have 115 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,529 Speaker 1: our signature items and the normal menu items, right? 116 00:04:59,779 --> 00:05:02,089 Speaker 1: So customer come to us, right? They don't just buy 117 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:05,459 Speaker 1: the budget meals. So the budget meals sometimes only applies 118 00:05:05,470 --> 00:05:08,029 Speaker 1: to people who are like from the lower income families. 119 00:05:08,559 --> 00:05:11,529 Speaker 1: And I still feel that normal customers will still go 120 00:05:11,540 --> 00:05:13,399 Speaker 1: for our normal meals because there's a difference give us 121 00:05:13,410 --> 00:05:15,390 Speaker 1: some indication how many budget meals do you sell in 122 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:17,700 Speaker 1: a day? Roughly what, 10% of them? Or even, I 123 00:05:17,709 --> 00:05:21,809 Speaker 1: think less than 20% less than 20%. Ok. And even 124 00:05:21,820 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: if there wasn't this government mandating that you have to 125 00:05:24,609 --> 00:05:27,238 Speaker 1: have these budget meals, do you think you would have them? 126 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: I think it's a challenge 127 00:05:31,329 --> 00:05:34,899 Speaker 2: because as a businessman, he would just charge as. Right. Right. Right. 128 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 2: Why would he give less? 129 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:39,089 Speaker 1: Because honestly, right by saying at this kind of price point, 130 00:05:39,809 --> 00:05:42,540 Speaker 1: you are just covering, you are not actually there is 131 00:05:42,549 --> 00:05:44,420 Speaker 1: no profit in it. Yeah. 132 00:05:45,170 --> 00:05:47,808 Speaker 2: What do you think about this mandatory thing? And some 133 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:50,670 Speaker 2: criticism around that it's unfair for the hawkers to bear 134 00:05:50,678 --> 00:05:51,238 Speaker 2: the burden. 135 00:05:51,649 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a few areas to this, right. So 136 00:05:54,130 --> 00:05:57,488 Speaker 2: uh for Hawker food itself, there's this concept of it 137 00:05:57,500 --> 00:06:01,169 Speaker 2: having to be cheap and affordable and people being able 138 00:06:01,178 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: to actually get a meal that is fulfilling with that 139 00:06:05,170 --> 00:06:08,410 Speaker 2: kind of price point. So that kind of social expectation 140 00:06:08,420 --> 00:06:12,558 Speaker 2: of this meal being affordable, perhaps priced at 350 or 141 00:06:12,570 --> 00:06:16,409 Speaker 2: something that is, you know, acceptable to society is 142 00:06:16,644 --> 00:06:19,714 Speaker 2: something that sounds very good in concept. But again, we 143 00:06:19,725 --> 00:06:22,953 Speaker 2: have to talk about the costs and overheads that come 144 00:06:22,964 --> 00:06:26,535 Speaker 2: to produce this plate of chicken rice. That is something 145 00:06:26,545 --> 00:06:29,595 Speaker 2: that we really cannot run away from because people are 146 00:06:29,605 --> 00:06:32,635 Speaker 2: running businesses here, they have to be sustainable and you 147 00:06:32,644 --> 00:06:35,654 Speaker 2: can't expect them to put all the costs and then 148 00:06:35,725 --> 00:06:38,904 Speaker 2: sell it at a loss. My question around this is 149 00:06:38,915 --> 00:06:41,144 Speaker 2: that you see, like Fabian is right. Yeah. 150 00:06:41,769 --> 00:06:45,789 Speaker 2: He knows his customers, he knows the regulars and he 151 00:06:45,799 --> 00:06:49,049 Speaker 2: knows that this family or this auntie or this uncle 152 00:06:49,190 --> 00:06:52,570 Speaker 2: maybe lives alone and doesn't have an income. So on 153 00:06:52,579 --> 00:06:55,630 Speaker 2: his own, he would probably give them a discount anyway. 154 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,899 Speaker 2: I've seen Hawkers actually do that, you know, but by 155 00:06:58,910 --> 00:07:02,269 Speaker 2: having a mandatory budget meal that you must have it, 156 00:07:02,779 --> 00:07:05,299 Speaker 2: then you might also get people who are cheap skates 157 00:07:05,309 --> 00:07:08,790 Speaker 2: and just go for that too. Right. Nobody can block 158 00:07:08,799 --> 00:07:11,359 Speaker 2: a consumer from selecting what they want to buy. Right. 159 00:07:11,369 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: But what 160 00:07:11,730 --> 00:07:15,489 Speaker 1: we can do from our end is to reduce the quantity. Ok. 161 00:07:15,529 --> 00:07:18,399 Speaker 1: So usually maybe more rice, there's less fish or there's 162 00:07:18,410 --> 00:07:21,109 Speaker 1: no one, there, no meat, there's just a veg what's 163 00:07:21,119 --> 00:07:21,839 Speaker 1: in it, then people 164 00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:22,399 Speaker 1: complain, 165 00:07:22,410 --> 00:07:23,059 Speaker 2: right. So 166 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,489 Speaker 2: that's the other thing they said, hey, how come your 167 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:27,019 Speaker 2: budget meal is so terrible? 168 00:07:27,230 --> 00:07:30,059 Speaker 1: But I think people nowadays are very appreciative of what 169 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:31,670 Speaker 1: we do for them also. I think most of them 170 00:07:31,679 --> 00:07:34,809 Speaker 1: are quite understanding towards this. They understand like by being 171 00:07:34,829 --> 00:07:38,410 Speaker 1: 350 they're gonna get disport. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if 172 00:07:38,420 --> 00:07:40,820 Speaker 1: you go out, you know that if you have less money, 173 00:07:40,829 --> 00:07:44,209 Speaker 1: you basically can only buy less things. Right. But our 174 00:07:44,220 --> 00:07:46,859 Speaker 1: point is do you need to mandate something like that? 175 00:07:46,869 --> 00:07:49,420 Speaker 1: Can't we just let it work itself because 176 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:52,079 Speaker 1: the hawkers know who are the ones who really need 177 00:07:52,089 --> 00:07:56,149 Speaker 1: and generally people are quite good in caring for each other. 178 00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:59,619 Speaker 1: Do we have to force this cheaper meal into the menu? 179 00:07:59,630 --> 00:08:01,540 Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day only you said 180 00:08:01,549 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: less than 20% of your customers will access it. So, no, 181 00:08:04,730 --> 00:08:05,019 Speaker 2: but it 182 00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:07,859 Speaker 2: depends. Right. Maybe where he is, it's less than 20%. 183 00:08:08,260 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: Maybe in an area which is a bit more low income, 184 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:14,450 Speaker 2: bit more elderly. That number could go up, right? Depends 185 00:08:14,510 --> 00:08:16,250 Speaker 2: on the area as well. What do you think from 186 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: a policy point of view? There are a lot of 187 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:22,079 Speaker 2: different considerations perhaps. So if you do not mandate something 188 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: and you allow people to set the price freely, there 189 00:08:25,489 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: can be people who, you know, feel 190 00:08:27,565 --> 00:08:31,625 Speaker 2: like they shouldn't be asking for less and they don't 191 00:08:31,635 --> 00:08:33,984 Speaker 2: want to act like they are needy. So they may 192 00:08:33,994 --> 00:08:36,864 Speaker 2: end up skipping a meal or, you know, just going 193 00:08:36,875 --> 00:08:40,284 Speaker 2: for something that's even less healthy, like maybe just asking 194 00:08:40,294 --> 00:08:42,594 Speaker 2: for rice or just the meat. Ok. So, so that's 195 00:08:42,604 --> 00:08:45,005 Speaker 2: a good point. If it's there, I will not be 196 00:08:45,015 --> 00:08:46,744 Speaker 2: shy about using it. 197 00:08:47,299 --> 00:08:49,729 Speaker 2: But if it's not there, I will be shy about 198 00:08:49,739 --> 00:08:53,849 Speaker 2: asking for less. Let me ask you about hawkers raising prices. 199 00:08:53,859 --> 00:08:57,489 Speaker 2: This always gets people riled up. So in a today 200 00:08:57,500 --> 00:09:02,130 Speaker 2: online article, they quoted a hawker Jason who sells sliced 201 00:09:02,140 --> 00:09:04,929 Speaker 2: fish soup in a stall in Pasir Ris, ok. And 202 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:07,659 Speaker 2: he said he was scolded by a customer because he 203 00:09:07,669 --> 00:09:11,030 Speaker 2: was charging $6 a bowl and it went up 204 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:13,449 Speaker 1: obviously from a bit fishy to the customer. 205 00:09:14,293 --> 00:09:18,052 Speaker 2: So the customer was like, hey GST only went up 1%. 206 00:09:18,062 --> 00:09:20,522 Speaker 2: How come you increase even more than that? You should. Now, 207 00:09:20,631 --> 00:09:22,543 Speaker 2: GST is 2% more, right? It's already, 208 00:09:22,643 --> 00:09:23,413 Speaker 1: but actually 209 00:09:23,422 --> 00:09:27,442 Speaker 1: it's actually a ripple effect. Like it's not just that 1% 1% 210 00:09:27,453 --> 00:09:30,482 Speaker 1: from suppliers from, from this and that it actually build 211 00:09:30,492 --> 00:09:33,172 Speaker 1: up like from your rent. There's no GST on that. Yes. 212 00:09:33,203 --> 00:09:35,182 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of all these hidden costs that 213 00:09:35,192 --> 00:09:36,333 Speaker 1: people don't actually see. 214 00:09:36,343 --> 00:09:39,393 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He's not just dealing with the GST. 215 00:09:39,403 --> 00:09:41,252 Speaker 2: He has to pay, he supply, 216 00:09:41,596 --> 00:09:46,045 Speaker 2: he has to pay his workers, his, I guess the landlord. 217 00:09:46,155 --> 00:09:49,116 Speaker 2: But some people say this, right? They said why is 218 00:09:49,125 --> 00:09:52,695 Speaker 2: it that Singaporeans are happy to pay $20 for avocado 219 00:09:52,705 --> 00:09:55,925 Speaker 2: on toast. But then quibble about hockey and me, which 220 00:09:55,934 --> 00:09:57,966 Speaker 2: is $8. Do you think that's fair? 221 00:09:57,976 --> 00:09:57,986 Speaker 1: I 222 00:09:57,995 --> 00:09:58,276 Speaker 2: think 223 00:09:58,285 --> 00:09:58,356 Speaker 1: it's 224 00:09:58,366 --> 00:10:00,955 Speaker 1: all about perspective. Like, if I'm coming into a Hawker Center, 225 00:10:01,356 --> 00:10:04,125 Speaker 1: the mindset is really in grown, in me. Like, like, oh, 226 00:10:04,135 --> 00:10:06,135 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay like this is the amount that I'm 227 00:10:06,726 --> 00:10:07,085 Speaker 1: no air 228 00:10:07,236 --> 00:10:08,306 Speaker 2: con. Yeah. 229 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,369 Speaker 1: But so imagine this, if the guys sold avocado on 230 00:10:12,380 --> 00:10:15,348 Speaker 1: toast in a Hawker Center for $12 231 00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:17,289 Speaker 2: he's not gonna make money, 232 00:10:17,299 --> 00:10:17,459 Speaker 1: right? 233 00:10:18,330 --> 00:10:20,059 Speaker 2: Unless his avocado is very special. 234 00:10:21,349 --> 00:10:23,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know because if you really like the food, 235 00:10:23,369 --> 00:10:25,390 Speaker 1: you want to find the best deal available. But if 236 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 1: you are going for the experience, then obviously the avocado 237 00:10:28,609 --> 00:10:30,729 Speaker 1: toast in a Hawker Center where the avocado is a 238 00:10:30,739 --> 00:10:32,659 Speaker 1: bit melting already because it's so hot. You know, that? 239 00:10:32,669 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: Not quite the same. Right. 240 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,409 Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's an expectation thing. Right. So people expect 241 00:10:38,419 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 2: that if I go to a Hawker Center, I should 242 00:10:40,750 --> 00:10:42,150 Speaker 2: not pay above a 243 00:10:42,159 --> 00:10:42,820 Speaker 2: certain amount. 244 00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:44,380 Speaker 1: And I would want to find my local food. Not 245 00:10:44,390 --> 00:10:45,469 Speaker 1: like avocado. 246 00:10:45,479 --> 00:10:48,039 Speaker 2: No, but my point is the hawker 247 00:10:48,369 --> 00:10:51,969 Speaker 2: is in a profession just as important as the chef, right? 248 00:10:51,979 --> 00:10:54,468 Speaker 2: I mean, and that is a culture that is food 249 00:10:54,479 --> 00:10:57,750 Speaker 2: that we love that we care about. Why wouldn't we 250 00:10:57,799 --> 00:11:01,369 Speaker 2: pay more to protect the livelihoods? I think 251 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: this is very hard to justify, 252 00:11:03,359 --> 00:11:05,340 Speaker 2: very hard to answer philosophical. 253 00:11:05,739 --> 00:11:06,830 Speaker 1: It's 254 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,419 Speaker 1: not a logical thing is that we are very emotional 255 00:11:10,429 --> 00:11:12,030 Speaker 1: when it comes to a hawker food. I think 256 00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:16,449 Speaker 1: the moment you raise it by 50 cents, what's going on, 257 00:11:16,460 --> 00:11:16,479 Speaker 1: you 258 00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:16,770 Speaker 1: know, 259 00:11:16,989 --> 00:11:19,859 Speaker 2: wouldn't you argue that that's precisely the reason why you 260 00:11:19,869 --> 00:11:23,039 Speaker 2: should support and pay more. You know, the whole label 261 00:11:23,049 --> 00:11:24,989 Speaker 2: of Hawker food comes with the cheap 262 00:11:25,369 --> 00:11:29,669 Speaker 2: thing as well. So people emotionally attach themselves to this 263 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: cheap label. So very proud of it. 264 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: It's too cheap. So I think it should be affordable 265 00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:37,718 Speaker 1: or cheaper. Definitely. But over the years, if you look back, 266 00:11:37,729 --> 00:11:40,109 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're paying $3.04 dollars for a bowl 267 00:11:40,119 --> 00:11:42,218 Speaker 1: of noodles and 10 years ago. And you're still paying 268 00:11:42,229 --> 00:11:43,159 Speaker 1: the same price today. 269 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:44,289 Speaker 2: Something doesn't make 270 00:11:44,299 --> 00:11:44,579 Speaker 2: sense. 271 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:44,809 Speaker 1: Right. 272 00:11:44,820 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: Steve, you were telling me right. For a talking point episode. 273 00:11:47,890 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: You were working in a prawn me. 274 00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was about hawker food. And I joined the 275 00:11:52,409 --> 00:11:54,010 Speaker 1: guy for a day from like 5 a.m. in the 276 00:11:54,020 --> 00:11:55,380 Speaker 1: morning to nine pm at night. 277 00:11:55,669 --> 00:11:58,429 Speaker 1: It is super hard work and you are appealing all 278 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,380 Speaker 1: those prawns prawns. And when you're selling it for 350 279 00:12:01,390 --> 00:12:07,488 Speaker 1: you're like, you know, you feel ok. The point is 280 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,809 Speaker 1: there is a lot of hard work going into it. 281 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:12,059 Speaker 1: And right now for a long time, we haven't been 282 00:12:12,070 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: rewarding our hawkers, which is why many of them leave 283 00:12:14,289 --> 00:12:16,929 Speaker 1: the profession, correct? And then we complain, why aren't people 284 00:12:16,940 --> 00:12:17,789 Speaker 1: doing Hawker food? 285 00:12:17,799 --> 00:12:21,570 Speaker 2: Ok. But we can't talk about Hawker food without talking 286 00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:21,929 Speaker 2: about 287 00:12:22,033 --> 00:12:24,893 Speaker 2: the biggest players, which are the landlords. In order to 288 00:12:24,903 --> 00:12:27,052 Speaker 2: talk about this. We need to set the stage for 289 00:12:27,062 --> 00:12:29,093 Speaker 2: some of our listeners who may not really know how 290 00:12:29,102 --> 00:12:33,093 Speaker 2: the business of Hawke is done in Singapore. It's very complicated. 291 00:12:33,252 --> 00:12:38,513 Speaker 2: So Singapore has about 100 and 20 Hawker centers, 776 292 00:12:38,523 --> 00:12:43,772 Speaker 2: coffee shops, right? And ne a National Environment Agency manages 293 00:12:43,793 --> 00:12:47,132 Speaker 2: Hawker Centers. That's right. Ok. So they control the rent 294 00:12:48,072 --> 00:12:48,283 Speaker 2: and 295 00:12:48,395 --> 00:12:52,875 Speaker 2: they generally quite affordable. Anything from subsidized would be a 296 00:12:52,885 --> 00:12:56,125 Speaker 2: few $100 all the way to maybe about $5000. So 297 00:12:56,135 --> 00:12:56,306 Speaker 1: I have a 298 00:12:56,315 --> 00:12:58,375 Speaker 1: friend who was actually running a hawker store right now. 299 00:12:58,385 --> 00:13:01,765 Speaker 1: So the store was actually kept by his generations. So 300 00:13:01,776 --> 00:13:03,255 Speaker 1: he's only paying like about $600. 301 00:13:03,966 --> 00:13:04,236 Speaker 2: Ok. 302 00:13:04,245 --> 00:13:04,395 Speaker 1: So 303 00:13:04,405 --> 00:13:07,495 Speaker 2: there you go. But I'm sure that's not easy to get. 304 00:13:07,505 --> 00:13:12,976 Speaker 2: Then there's social enterprise. Hawker centers managed by any appointed operators. 305 00:13:12,986 --> 00:13:13,934 Speaker 2: Fair price group, 306 00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:17,589 Speaker 2: timber plus which is, there's one near here in the 307 00:13:17,599 --> 00:13:21,869 Speaker 2: office and then the coffee shops 700 plus of them 308 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,010 Speaker 2: 374 owned by H DB rest private enterprises. So you 309 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:30,809 Speaker 2: know the big ones, Kim Sun Kim, the group. And 310 00:13:30,820 --> 00:13:34,549 Speaker 2: then of course, there's the food courts in your Food Republic, 311 00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:38,409 Speaker 2: which is very fancy. So my question to you is like, 312 00:13:38,419 --> 00:13:42,500 Speaker 2: is it very complicated? This all is different models of, 313 00:13:42,830 --> 00:13:44,968 Speaker 2: you know, some private landlords that can jack up the 314 00:13:44,979 --> 00:13:47,549 Speaker 2: price when they do a renovation, they tell you, you 315 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,619 Speaker 2: know what Fabian you have to pay me now 30% more. 316 00:13:51,130 --> 00:13:54,849 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a very common industry practice. Like 317 00:13:54,859 --> 00:13:57,229 Speaker 1: if you're going to provide a new space with you 318 00:13:57,239 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: have like new environment renovations nicely done les and everything, right? 319 00:14:02,169 --> 00:14:05,070 Speaker 1: You're gonna expect your tenants to pay more because I'm 320 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,510 Speaker 1: giving you this environment and we are gonna be putting 321 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:08,140 Speaker 1: in more crowd. 322 00:14:08,789 --> 00:14:11,890 Speaker 1: Ok. So yeah, so prices of rent hikes will actually 323 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:12,799 Speaker 1: just go up. Ok. 324 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:16,020 Speaker 2: So you've been at the receiving end of having to 325 00:14:16,030 --> 00:14:18,650 Speaker 2: pay more rent, right? So maybe explain to us, you 326 00:14:18,659 --> 00:14:20,750 Speaker 2: may not want to go into the actual numbers, but 327 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: explain to us, how does it work? How does the 328 00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:25,590 Speaker 2: landlord come to you and say, ok, I'm gonna increase rent. 329 00:14:25,599 --> 00:14:28,619 Speaker 1: So it can happen in two scenarios. One which is 330 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:31,130 Speaker 1: when your lease is up and then they will renegotiate 331 00:14:31,140 --> 00:14:33,309 Speaker 1: with you because there can be other players that want 332 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,780 Speaker 1: to come in, want to take over this spot. So 333 00:14:34,789 --> 00:14:35,590 Speaker 1: they could be offering a 334 00:14:35,655 --> 00:14:41,385 Speaker 1: higher rent. So, so as a war for the as 335 00:14:41,395 --> 00:14:43,244 Speaker 1: a landlord, I will definitely give it to the one 336 00:14:43,255 --> 00:14:45,854 Speaker 1: who offers higher. Correct? So the second option which is 337 00:14:45,864 --> 00:14:49,195 Speaker 1: like what we mentioned earlier about renovations. Yeah. So after 338 00:14:49,205 --> 00:14:50,594 Speaker 1: renovations definitely, 339 00:14:50,604 --> 00:14:53,695 Speaker 2: but before they renovate, do they tell you? Ok, after renovation, 340 00:14:53,705 --> 00:14:55,784 Speaker 2: you're going to be paying $15,000. Yeah, they 341 00:14:55,794 --> 00:14:57,674 Speaker 1: do, they do offer it to you. They will give 342 00:14:57,684 --> 00:15:00,505 Speaker 1: you a Nancy agreement, right? And it's either whether you 343 00:15:00,515 --> 00:15:02,325 Speaker 1: want to take it or not. So the option is 344 00:15:02,335 --> 00:15:02,494 Speaker 1: there 345 00:15:03,049 --> 00:15:05,059 Speaker 1: like either you take it or I'll just let it out. 346 00:15:05,260 --> 00:15:08,239 Speaker 2: Ok. So if I run a tai fun store, let's 347 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:12,539 Speaker 2: say at one of these really huge hotspot coffee shops, 348 00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:16,599 Speaker 2: would I pay as much as I don't know, 15 349 00:15:16,609 --> 00:15:17,580 Speaker 2: $18,000 350 00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:17,950 Speaker 2: a month? 351 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,460 Speaker 1: It's highly possible because s fun stores are usually bigger 352 00:15:22,469 --> 00:15:24,409 Speaker 1: in terms of like the square meters and everything. So 353 00:15:24,419 --> 00:15:27,150 Speaker 1: they are actually the anchor tenants. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 354 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:29,349 Speaker 1: where are you going to display your 30 different dishes? 355 00:15:29,359 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: You need lots of space, right. You know, I have 356 00:15:31,859 --> 00:15:33,599 Speaker 1: been there, done that too, so I also cook Tai 357 00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:38,650 Speaker 1: fun before, but maybe help us understand Fabian. So give 358 00:15:38,659 --> 00:15:41,500 Speaker 1: us a sense from the stalls in the coffee shop, 359 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: the rental will range from as little as what it 360 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:48,820 Speaker 1: could be. 3000, 5000. Right up to, 361 00:15:49,429 --> 00:15:52,719 Speaker 1: I think current market, right? You're looking at about 55 362 00:15:52,729 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: up to let's say maybe 2020 is also possible. Yeah. Ok. 363 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,090 Speaker 1: Ultimately depends on the location, right? But ok. Wow. So 364 00:16:01,099 --> 00:16:04,119 Speaker 1: between 5 to 20,000 per month, just for rental alone, 365 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:07,369 Speaker 1: not counting all the other additional utilities and that kind 366 00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: of 367 00:16:07,409 --> 00:16:07,690 Speaker 1: cost. 368 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,289 Speaker 2: Is there a situation where the landlord says? Ok, I 369 00:16:10,299 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 2: take a cut. So for example, if your stall is 370 00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:17,159 Speaker 2: like some big go on like this nonstop queues and 371 00:16:17,169 --> 00:16:17,650 Speaker 2: you know, 372 00:16:19,684 --> 00:16:21,544 Speaker 2: so can they say, you know what I'm going to 373 00:16:21,554 --> 00:16:23,375 Speaker 2: take a portion of your? 374 00:16:23,765 --> 00:16:26,474 Speaker 1: I think it all depends on the 10. Yeah. Correct. 375 00:16:26,505 --> 00:16:28,684 Speaker 1: So when you enter a coffee shop, there's a disagreement 376 00:16:28,695 --> 00:16:30,755 Speaker 1: which you both have to discuss on. Yeah, so I 377 00:16:30,765 --> 00:16:34,015 Speaker 1: think everything is up for discussion, but this model does exist, right? 378 00:16:34,025 --> 00:16:34,125 Speaker 1: This 379 00:16:35,825 --> 00:16:38,614 Speaker 2: ok. Ok. So rent is one thing you were telling 380 00:16:38,625 --> 00:16:40,895 Speaker 2: us earlier that you also have to pay for things 381 00:16:40,905 --> 00:16:43,424 Speaker 2: like washing fee. I don't know gas 382 00:16:43,784 --> 00:16:45,544 Speaker 1: like collections or 383 00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:50,619 Speaker 1: what is like for using the space on the outside, 384 00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, like in coffee shop, right, there is an 385 00:16:52,450 --> 00:16:56,510 Speaker 1: internal space and there's this exterior space. So you have 386 00:16:56,549 --> 00:16:57,010 Speaker 1: to pay you 387 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,390 Speaker 2: the sources and 388 00:16:58,479 --> 00:17:02,109 Speaker 1: the maybe tables, tables, ok? Basically you're paying for extra, 389 00:17:02,299 --> 00:17:05,069 Speaker 1: extra space, something like. And then there is the rubbish 390 00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:09,900 Speaker 1: collection and some places they offer you like cleaning, they 391 00:17:09,910 --> 00:17:10,500 Speaker 1: wash your both for. 392 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:12,538 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you pay them for 393 00:17:12,548 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: that. 394 00:17:12,917 --> 00:17:14,558 Speaker 2: Right. Right. So all of this adds up, 395 00:17:14,568 --> 00:17:14,859 Speaker 1: right. 396 00:17:15,619 --> 00:17:18,638 Speaker 2: So this is why you need to charge a little 397 00:17:18,648 --> 00:17:20,917 Speaker 2: bit more for your bowl. I guess. 398 00:17:21,288 --> 00:17:21,428 Speaker 1: I 399 00:17:21,438 --> 00:17:21,718 Speaker 2: think 400 00:17:21,729 --> 00:17:24,558 Speaker 1: it's fairly reasonable. If I think ultimately at the end 401 00:17:24,568 --> 00:17:25,659 Speaker 1: of the day, we still have to 402 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: run a business. So what is a reasonable price? That's 403 00:17:29,729 --> 00:17:31,530 Speaker 1: kind of what we're asking. We said yes, it should 404 00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:34,988 Speaker 1: be affordable. But right now, if I ask what's for 405 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: a bowl of prawn noodles, for example, what's the price 406 00:17:38,569 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: you don't mind paying on a regular basis? I 407 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:44,790 Speaker 2: suppose? $8 for a, for prawn noodles. Ok. 408 00:17:44,959 --> 00:17:46,150 Speaker 1: What is your 409 00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:47,579 Speaker 1: study discovered? 410 00:17:47,589 --> 00:17:50,430 Speaker 2: We didn't really get into the calculations, but then we 411 00:17:50,439 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 2: did talk to some of the hawkers who are willing 412 00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:55,899 Speaker 2: to have a conversation with us and the topic of 413 00:17:55,910 --> 00:17:58,969 Speaker 2: rent kept coming up as well as utilities. So these 414 00:17:58,979 --> 00:18:02,429 Speaker 2: are the two main overhead costs that they keep talking 415 00:18:02,439 --> 00:18:04,650 Speaker 2: about when they say that, you know, I don't want 416 00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:07,660 Speaker 2: to increase price, but then I have no choice because 417 00:18:07,670 --> 00:18:10,458 Speaker 2: all these things are adding up and I cannot sustain 418 00:18:10,469 --> 00:18:14,169 Speaker 2: selling it at $2 anymore. Of course. So it's really 419 00:18:14,180 --> 00:18:14,699 Speaker 2: things like that 420 00:18:14,775 --> 00:18:16,454 Speaker 2: and I mean, the people who are willing to talk 421 00:18:16,464 --> 00:18:18,635 Speaker 2: to us, at least they all sound like, you know, 422 00:18:18,645 --> 00:18:21,594 Speaker 2: they feel very bad about increasing their prices. They're like, 423 00:18:21,604 --> 00:18:24,515 Speaker 2: is it ok? Am I like, you know, still not 424 00:18:24,525 --> 00:18:27,895 Speaker 2: the highest cost they have this kind of anxiety or 425 00:18:27,905 --> 00:18:30,755 Speaker 2: some sort of like feeling bad for their customers for 426 00:18:30,765 --> 00:18:32,185 Speaker 2: charging more now. 427 00:18:32,964 --> 00:18:35,045 Speaker 1: Very relatable. I understand 428 00:18:35,155 --> 00:18:35,895 Speaker 2: you really do. 429 00:18:35,905 --> 00:18:36,734 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. 430 00:18:36,755 --> 00:18:38,885 Speaker 2: Yeah. Ok, because you feel bad for what 431 00:18:38,895 --> 00:18:41,415 Speaker 1: you've been having this for two years at 450 then 432 00:18:41,425 --> 00:18:42,875 Speaker 1: now I have to raise it to $5 and, 433 00:18:43,229 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: and it's not that I want 50 cents increase. It's 434 00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:48,780 Speaker 1: not like do people get very upset by this 50? 435 00:18:48,790 --> 00:18:51,438 Speaker 1: I think some people are more price sensitive. There are 436 00:18:51,449 --> 00:18:54,099 Speaker 1: different kind of people like they are more understanding and 437 00:18:54,109 --> 00:18:54,500 Speaker 1: some 438 00:18:54,939 --> 00:18:55,910 Speaker 1: more price sensitive. 439 00:18:56,449 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 2: So you think that people who are struggling are more 440 00:18:58,969 --> 00:19:02,579 Speaker 2: price sensitive? Like for example, they actually are very conscious 441 00:19:02,589 --> 00:19:05,099 Speaker 2: about their spending, you know, they might actually 442 00:19:05,109 --> 00:19:07,829 Speaker 1: know, I think is the people who are just, I 443 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,410 Speaker 1: don't know, entitled to feel like ha should be this 444 00:19:11,420 --> 00:19:14,030 Speaker 1: price forever. I can afford to pay eight bucks, but 445 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,260 Speaker 1: I jolly well, I want to pay 450 actually speaking 446 00:19:16,270 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 1: about price, right? Sometimes you're paying a higher 447 00:19:19,006 --> 00:19:21,126 Speaker 1: the ingredient like instead of like the different kind of 448 00:19:21,406 --> 00:19:23,857 Speaker 1: type of. So it actually play a part. So I mean, 449 00:19:23,866 --> 00:19:26,116 Speaker 1: we look at your B ch me stores, there are 450 00:19:26,126 --> 00:19:29,467 Speaker 1: many of them, their starting price is 7 $8 right? 451 00:19:29,477 --> 00:19:32,327 Speaker 1: They offer better ingredients and they still have long queues. 452 00:19:32,337 --> 00:19:35,427 Speaker 1: So there is demand for that. But you don't go 453 00:19:35,436 --> 00:19:38,837 Speaker 1: to that shop expecting to buy a $3 bowl of noodles. 454 00:19:38,847 --> 00:19:41,636 Speaker 2: I understand the case for it. I mean to keep 455 00:19:41,646 --> 00:19:42,366 Speaker 2: it low 456 00:19:42,713 --> 00:19:44,873 Speaker 2: for people who may not be able to afford it, 457 00:19:44,884 --> 00:19:49,173 Speaker 2: but I'm just not sure how many of those people 458 00:19:49,183 --> 00:19:52,644 Speaker 2: there are in a general population. Yeah. So I mean 459 00:19:52,654 --> 00:19:56,134 Speaker 2: there are lots of calculations about what people can afford 460 00:19:56,144 --> 00:19:58,854 Speaker 2: and how much, right? So if you don't look into that, 461 00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:01,783 Speaker 2: I think the bigger question here would be if we 462 00:20:01,792 --> 00:20:04,302 Speaker 2: are going to have 350 budget meals, who is paying 463 00:20:04,313 --> 00:20:06,484 Speaker 2: for this subsidized cost 464 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,980 Speaker 2: because it's not going to foot the bill for the hawkers. 465 00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 2: And so who is the one who should subsidize that 466 00:20:13,691 --> 00:20:17,430 Speaker 2: kind of cost that comes with providing a cheaper meal 467 00:20:17,441 --> 00:20:18,541 Speaker 2: for people who need 468 00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:18,850 Speaker 2: it? 469 00:20:18,859 --> 00:20:22,110 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Fabian actually doesn't really hurt your pocket much 470 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: because if there are less than 20% people tapping on 471 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:27,850 Speaker 1: this budget, but I'll just give an example for example, right? 472 00:20:27,859 --> 00:20:30,380 Speaker 1: Like 100 people comes to a thought one day, right? 473 00:20:30,689 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: You're gonna make 350 in revenue. Whereas if you compare, 474 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:36,430 Speaker 1: let's say the normal ones you're going to take about $450. Right. 475 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,550 Speaker 1: So that's $100. And I think it's very significant this 476 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,089 Speaker 1: $100 I can technically pay off one worker for a day. Yeah. 477 00:20:43,099 --> 00:20:45,390 Speaker 1: But I'm actually selling the same amount of noodles. 478 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: Right. Any last comments? I think this is a very 479 00:20:49,290 --> 00:20:52,619 Speaker 2: complicated business and it's also very emotional. A lot of 480 00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:55,150 Speaker 2: people have a lot of burning comments about 481 00:20:55,244 --> 00:21:00,104 Speaker 2: these people queue up. OK. Yeah, for that and people 482 00:21:00,114 --> 00:21:03,744 Speaker 2: get riled up with just 10 cents increase sometimes. So 483 00:21:03,755 --> 00:21:06,295 Speaker 2: it does different things for different people basically. But I 484 00:21:06,305 --> 00:21:10,344 Speaker 2: think Hawker Food is an establishment for Singaporeans and I 485 00:21:10,354 --> 00:21:12,984 Speaker 2: think it should stay in some form or another. But 486 00:21:12,994 --> 00:21:16,944 Speaker 2: hopefully we all have a sustainable kind of concept about 487 00:21:16,954 --> 00:21:17,645 Speaker 2: its prices. 488 00:21:17,905 --> 00:21:20,405 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I have an idea the next time 489 00:21:20,415 --> 00:21:22,625 Speaker 1: you want to raise prices, you do it in tandem 490 00:21:22,635 --> 00:21:24,665 Speaker 1: with the next batch of CDC vouchers. 491 00:21:25,349 --> 00:21:27,260 Speaker 1: Ah then you won't feel it as much, right? 492 00:21:27,959 --> 00:21:28,938 Speaker 2: Yeah, Fabian, what do you 493 00:21:28,949 --> 00:21:29,319 Speaker 2: think? 494 00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:31,890 Speaker 1: I would say that managing food prices has always been 495 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,149 Speaker 1: one of our greatest challenges. But for us, we will 496 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,459 Speaker 1: try to strategize our business in a way that we 497 00:21:37,469 --> 00:21:41,899 Speaker 1: streamline our operations and we work very closely with our suppliers. 498 00:21:41,910 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: So they help us a lot like if we plan 499 00:21:44,449 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: for expansion, right? We buy in volume. So definitely you 500 00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:51,099 Speaker 1: have the negotiating powers with the suppliers. So by doing that, 501 00:21:51,109 --> 00:21:52,180 Speaker 1: we can continuously 502 00:21:52,699 --> 00:21:57,589 Speaker 1: help our local community like with these maintaining affordable food prices. Yeah. 503 00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:00,409 Speaker 2: OK. But of course, if you could earn more, you would. Right. 504 00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:01,839 Speaker 1: That's definitely, 505 00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:05,369 Speaker 2: you know, in the old days when we were living 506 00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: in HDB flats that always the guy with the Mercedes 507 00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: was the chicken rice 508 00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:09,829 Speaker 1: seller. 509 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:11,510 Speaker 2: Yeah. 510 00:22:11,829 --> 00:22:13,430 Speaker 1: Margin for actually very high 511 00:22:13,689 --> 00:22:14,310 Speaker 2: chicken rice. 512 00:22:15,390 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: The other way is actually just cook at home more. 513 00:22:17,449 --> 00:22:19,349 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense now. But if 514 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:22,429 Speaker 1: the fact that eating out is cheaper than sometimes cooking 515 00:22:22,439 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: at home still doesn't logically make sense to me sometimes. 516 00:22:25,689 --> 00:22:29,469 Speaker 2: But eating out is definitely more unhealthy. Yeah, so I 517 00:22:29,479 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: don't 518 00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: know. 519 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:31,810 Speaker 1: Alright. Thanks guys. And thanks to all of you who 520 00:22:31,819 --> 00:22:33,699 Speaker 1: have been joining us listening in. We all have favorite 521 00:22:33,709 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: Hawker food. You know, let us know what you think 522 00:22:35,369 --> 00:22:37,319 Speaker 1: about this, whether you're willing to pay more for your 523 00:22:37,329 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: Hawker food 524 00:22:38,339 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 1: to help keep the whole hawker. You know, what's the 525 00:22:41,729 --> 00:22:45,218 Speaker 1: word culture alive? That's right. And that's it for deep 526 00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: dive this week. Thanks to the team, Janni Johari Tiffany, 527 00:22:48,469 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: Joan Chan and Sa win. Our video editor is Haida Amin. 528 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: See you next week. Bye for now.