WEBVTT - What will be the impact of a hotter Singapore? 0:00:00.270 --> 0:00:02.569 You're listening to AC N A podcast. 0:00:08.699 --> 0:00:12.658 Welcome to the Climate Conversations. I'm your host, Julie Yu 0:00:13.130 --> 0:00:17.700 Singapore released its third national climate change study, also known 0:00:17.709 --> 0:00:21.680 as V three last week and it makes for sober reading. 0:00:21.930 --> 0:00:25.440 We're not just talking about numbers here. We're delving into 0:00:25.450 --> 0:00:30.399 detailed projections stretching all the way to 2100. It's almost 0:00:30.409 --> 0:00:33.360 like crystal ball gazing. But with science and data, 0:00:33.979 --> 0:00:37.500 this report basically gives a glimpse of how hot the 0:00:37.509 --> 0:00:40.590 island is going to be, how much rain will fall 0:00:40.598 --> 0:00:43.779 and how much the sea level will rise to help 0:00:43.790 --> 0:00:47.240 us unpack and make sense of the latest findings. I'm 0:00:47.250 --> 0:00:51.598 joined by Doctor Orel Moise, Deputy Director of the Department 0:00:51.610 --> 0:00:55.319 of Climate Research at the Center for Climate Research, Singapore, 0:00:55.529 --> 0:00:57.279 the agency behind the report. 0:00:58.500 --> 0:01:01.470 Doctor Moyes. Welcome to the Climate Conversations. Thank 0:01:01.479 --> 0:01:03.279 you and I'm happy to be here. 0:01:03.389 --> 0:01:06.899 Great to see you to kick things off. Tell us, 0:01:06.910 --> 0:01:09.910 first of all, why is a report like this important 0:01:09.919 --> 0:01:10.679 for Singapore? 0:01:10.910 --> 0:01:14.739 I think the importance of this report is the most 0:01:14.750 --> 0:01:18.360 up to date information you can possibly get at the 0:01:18.370 --> 0:01:22.540 highest resolution that is available for Singapore to understand how 0:01:22.550 --> 0:01:23.679 the climate is changing, 0:01:24.029 --> 0:01:27.110 what worlds we are looking into in the future decades 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.699 and also how this will depend on the overall global 0:01:31.709 --> 0:01:35.599 pathway on carbon emissions. So we did the study looking 0:01:35.610 --> 0:01:38.379 at three different pathways, the low medium and high emission 0:01:38.389 --> 0:01:38.979 pathway 0:01:39.250 --> 0:01:42.760 in predicting climate patterns. There is no simple feat but 0:01:42.769 --> 0:01:45.889 walk us through the process behind these projections and how 0:01:45.900 --> 0:01:47.930 accurate can we expect them to 0:01:47.940 --> 0:01:50.199 be? So where this all starts 0:01:50.375 --> 0:01:54.815 is with a global modeling program that the World Climate 0:01:54.824 --> 0:01:59.665 Research program co ordinates where 50 plus global climate centers 0:01:59.675 --> 0:02:03.654 in the world all simulate the future climate under the 0:02:03.665 --> 0:02:05.275 same experimental conditions 0:02:05.790 --> 0:02:10.788 using supercomputers. So there's two cycles, the modeling cycle and 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.070 then a few years later, the A PC C cycle. 0:02:13.309 --> 0:02:16.559 So what we do is we take the 50 plus 0:02:16.570 --> 0:02:20.649 global models and subselect the best ones for our region 0:02:20.809 --> 0:02:24.550 and those six best ones, we then run a separate 0:02:24.559 --> 0:02:28.850 climate model just over Southeast Asia and over Singapore to 0:02:28.860 --> 0:02:29.309 further 0:02:29.395 --> 0:02:32.895 what we call downscale information. But what we have with 0:02:32.904 --> 0:02:37.255 this is high resolution information that is non existent. Otherwise 0:02:37.264 --> 0:02:39.865 nobody else has this kind of data for South East 0:02:39.875 --> 0:02:40.865 Asia and Singapore. 0:02:41.475 --> 0:02:44.895 When you went through the final projections, did the findings 0:02:44.904 --> 0:02:48.375 align with your expectations, any surprises? 0:02:48.383 --> 0:02:51.714 Some of the surprises we found specifically for South East 0:02:51.725 --> 0:02:52.955 Asia and Singapore was 0:02:53.270 --> 0:02:57.130 what we call extremes now over the last decade or 0:02:57.139 --> 0:03:00.220 so will become rather normal. By the end of the 0:03:00.229 --> 0:03:03.399 century and particularly the high emission scenario. So this is 0:03:03.410 --> 0:03:06.970 something to think about because as the climate is slowly 0:03:06.979 --> 0:03:10.339 warming in the background, the way we will experience this 0:03:10.350 --> 0:03:15.288 change is initially through the higher occurrence of extreme events, 0:03:15.300 --> 0:03:18.339 whether it's rainfall or temperature. And so this is definitely 0:03:18.350 --> 0:03:20.169 something to keep an eye on 0:03:20.580 --> 0:03:25.728 the second. Not surprising but certainly concerning result is the 0:03:25.740 --> 0:03:29.600 possibility of a large number of heat stress died by 0:03:29.610 --> 0:03:30.539 the end of the century. 0:03:30.589 --> 0:03:34.440 Ok. So doctor let's delve into the specific projections starting 0:03:34.449 --> 0:03:37.880 with temperature. Obviously, in Singapore, we've been feeling the heat 0:03:37.889 --> 0:03:41.199 for several years now. And the report says that 35 0:03:41.210 --> 0:03:44.520 degrees is likely to be the norm. Could it go 0:03:44.529 --> 0:03:47.679 higher typically with these kind of projections? 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.539 The numbers we give away are what we call climatological 0:03:51.550 --> 0:03:55.059 averages so that they represent not the temperature on any 0:03:55.070 --> 0:03:58.779 particular day, but they represent averages over quite a long 0:03:58.789 --> 0:04:00.619 time period. So 10 or 20 years 0:04:01.289 --> 0:04:04.160 and this means if there is an average projected to 0:04:04.169 --> 0:04:07.470 be 20 or 35 degrees for that period, then if 0:04:07.479 --> 0:04:09.759 you look at a day to day basis, of course, 0:04:09.770 --> 0:04:12.750 they go higher and lower because you have the daily 0:04:12.759 --> 0:04:15.389 variation in temperature around the average. So 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.420 if you look at, for example, now on our website, 0:04:18.428 --> 0:04:21.459 average temperature for the last 10 years for a particular 0:04:21.470 --> 0:04:25.920 season is 29 degrees. But of course, on a daily basis, 0:04:25.928 --> 0:04:28.480 it goes up to 33 or below it. So this 0:04:28.488 --> 0:04:31.739 kind of what we call variability will still exist in 0:04:31.750 --> 0:04:33.299 the future. And the 0:04:33.445 --> 0:04:38.065 objected values we give are typically averages over a time period, 0:04:38.075 --> 0:04:42.755 but also averages over those six models that I mentioned before. 0:04:43.154 --> 0:04:46.644 And this is where we get the range from. So 0:04:46.654 --> 0:04:48.855 you will see that our results will say an average 0:04:48.863 --> 0:04:51.094 of this and a range from here to here. 0:04:51.339 --> 0:04:54.170 And this range is expressed as the range from the 0:04:54.178 --> 0:04:57.420 models from minimum to maximum because we only have the 0:04:57.428 --> 0:05:01.339 model simulations as the only indicators what our future climate 0:05:01.350 --> 0:05:03.510 will be like. And each model gives you a slightly 0:05:03.519 --> 0:05:06.678 different version of the future climate. And we take that 0:05:06.690 --> 0:05:11.558 range of possible future climate as the range. Unfortunately, the 0:05:11.570 --> 0:05:14.929 minimum temperatures, the nightly minimum temperatures are also rising and 0:05:14.940 --> 0:05:17.559 rising actually at a faster speed than the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.649 maximum. So to me, the concerning thing is that we 0:05:20.660 --> 0:05:23.929 might not get as much cooling during the night as 0:05:23.940 --> 0:05:26.649 we used to. And this is where people have to 0:05:26.660 --> 0:05:29.308 try to adapt to this and maybe switch on the 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:34.010 air conditioners to 25 degrees and not 24 be mindful 0:05:34.019 --> 0:05:37.230 of the times of day when you are actually outside 0:05:37.238 --> 0:05:41.290 and otherwise use cooling measures to stay cool. You know, 0:05:41.299 --> 0:05:45.269 the government released a heat stress advisory, the National Environment Agency. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.559 And this is something where there is clear 0:05:47.674 --> 0:05:50.094 guidance on what you should do in terms of outdoor 0:05:50.105 --> 0:05:51.743 activities and be mindful. 0:05:52.024 --> 0:05:55.404 And doctor, let's talk about rainfall. And anyone who has 0:05:55.415 --> 0:05:58.095 been in Singapore these last few weeks will know it's 0:05:58.105 --> 0:06:02.333 been pouring almost every day. It used to be more predictable, 0:06:02.345 --> 0:06:03.654 but now it appears harder 0:06:03.665 --> 0:06:06.453 to predict. So what you're talking about is weather prediction, 0:06:06.464 --> 0:06:10.135 which is different to climate. There's a clear difference between 0:06:10.144 --> 0:06:12.065 the question, I just want to predict for the next 0:06:12.075 --> 0:06:15.125 5 to 7 days because all your tools are very 0:06:15.135 --> 0:06:17.415 different that you use the models and everything. 0:06:17.738 --> 0:06:20.420 Whether to ask the question, what is the climate going 0:06:20.428 --> 0:06:22.359 to do by the end of the century or by 0:06:22.369 --> 0:06:24.539 the middle of the century, the tools are very different 0:06:24.859 --> 0:06:28.118 and even though there are similar processes involved, but it's 0:06:28.130 --> 0:06:32.119 the timescale of interest that makes the difference. And therefore 0:06:32.130 --> 0:06:35.049 the question on whether weather is harder to predict at 0:06:35.059 --> 0:06:37.640 the moment is not something that we looked at in 0:06:37.649 --> 0:06:40.640 terms of E three. So it's an interesting question, but 0:06:40.649 --> 0:06:42.149 it's a completely separate issue. 0:06:42.399 --> 0:06:45.279 So what my study looked at is the long term 0:06:45.290 --> 0:06:49.380 changes and what this means for average and extreme climates. 0:06:49.390 --> 0:06:53.779 So wet months are getting wetter, up to about 60% 0:06:53.869 --> 0:06:57.839 dry months are getting drier, but up to 40%. Could 0:06:57.850 --> 0:06:59.619 you explain that to us? So 0:06:59.630 --> 0:07:02.239 one way to visualize this is that when it rains, 0:07:02.250 --> 0:07:05.979 it pours. So over the same time period, when it rains, 0:07:05.988 --> 0:07:09.390 you can maybe expect stronger what we call rain rates. 0:07:09.399 --> 0:07:11.299 This is the rain per time 0:07:11.820 --> 0:07:16.170 and then the spaces in between could be longer because 0:07:16.179 --> 0:07:19.010 you have more periods of dry spells in between. So 0:07:19.019 --> 0:07:21.769 that's one way to visualize this. And this is also 0:07:21.779 --> 0:07:24.589 in line with what in a lot of locations around 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.670 the world, globally, IPCC said is as the extremes are 0:07:27.679 --> 0:07:29.119 getting more extremes, we see 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.730 particularly the rainfall extremes to increase. But also at the 0:07:32.739 --> 0:07:36.250 same time, we see some dry spells duration and frequency 0:07:36.260 --> 0:07:40.059 increasing. And that's certainly worrying for, I guess people's health 0:07:40.070 --> 0:07:43.910 and also there is a higher chance for flooding delays 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.540 in construction, traffic congestions and so on. So 0:07:46.549 --> 0:07:50.380 if worked all along already with Singapore's Water Agency P 0:07:50.390 --> 0:07:52.100 very very closely. They are one of our 0:07:52.399 --> 0:07:55.619 closer stakeholders and they already had access to our information 0:07:55.630 --> 0:07:59.019 before anybody else because they are in the process of 0:07:59.029 --> 0:08:03.660 building the coastal protection systems and studies. So they are 0:08:03.670 --> 0:08:06.220 well aware of where this goes and they take care 0:08:06.230 --> 0:08:09.540 of the design parameters that are in line with what 0:08:09.549 --> 0:08:12.459 we say. So I'm not concerned about the extreme rainfall 0:08:12.470 --> 0:08:13.459 because I know that 0:08:13.549 --> 0:08:16.730 drainage systems will be designed appropriately. 0:08:16.739 --> 0:08:20.200 So let's move on to sea level protection. A big 0:08:20.209 --> 0:08:24.309 deal for Singapore given its vulnerability to rising sea levels. 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.510 The report here says that sea levels around Singapore could 0:08:27.519 --> 0:08:31.100 rise by more than 1 m by year 2100 and 0:08:31.109 --> 0:08:34.570 up to 2.12 m by 2050. 0:08:34.950 --> 0:08:38.130 How would you explain the potential impact of 1 to 0:08:38.140 --> 0:08:41.409 2 m rise in sea levels for a low lying 0:08:41.419 --> 0:08:42.880 country like Singapore sea 0:08:42.890 --> 0:08:45.880 level rise projected by the end of this century, 1.15 0:08:45.890 --> 0:08:49.549 m up to that value under the high emission scenario 0:08:49.919 --> 0:08:52.570 is not that different from what we said years ago. 0:08:52.580 --> 0:08:55.199 And it is also not too far away from what 0:08:55.210 --> 0:08:58.500 the global average is actually. So it's not really outstanding 0:08:58.849 --> 0:09:02.030 to that respect. And it's something that pub is well 0:09:02.039 --> 0:09:04.530 aware of in terms of what this could mean to 0:09:04.539 --> 0:09:08.299 their planning parameters. And PUB is not only taking that 0:09:08.309 --> 0:09:11.359 sea level rise into account, but also all the other 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:16.150 wave storm surge, tidal variability, everything else that comes on 0:09:16.159 --> 0:09:18.390 top of this. So pub needs to take care of 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.909 all of this for us. The change from 1 to 0:09:21.919 --> 0:09:24.809 2 m is therefore something that is already well in 0:09:24.820 --> 0:09:27.890 their planning scope that is clear by 2150. 0:09:28.359 --> 0:09:32.340 The main thing to think about is the ocean reacts 0:09:32.349 --> 0:09:34.799 a bit different to the warming than the atmosphere because 0:09:34.809 --> 0:09:39.140 it's much slower warming, but for much longer. So even 0:09:39.150 --> 0:09:43.630 if the world decides to come together and do a 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.580 lot of mitigation to go to the low emission scenario 0:09:47.590 --> 0:09:50.650 pathway by the end of this century, which means the 0:09:50.659 --> 0:09:53.969 atmosphere change will slowly ease and flatten off 0:09:54.419 --> 0:09:57.679 the ocean will still warm. And expand for the next 0:09:57.690 --> 0:10:01.630 few centuries and therefore still rise even in the low 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.500 emission scenario. So by in 200 years time, we'll be 0:10:05.510 --> 0:10:08.940 looking at several meters sea level rise because of this. 0:10:09.179 --> 0:10:12.679 And that's something that I'm sure every government in the 0:10:12.690 --> 0:10:15.109 world has to look at in terms of the long 0:10:15.119 --> 0:10:19.309 term unavoidable change in the ocean. What can be done 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.280 about this and this is something that of course, is 0:10:21.289 --> 0:10:22.119 very far away 0:10:22.460 --> 0:10:26.099 and the government will react along the way. But for 0:10:26.109 --> 0:10:30.679 the next decades, until 2150 everything is already part of 0:10:30.690 --> 0:10:31.348 the planning. 0:10:31.359 --> 0:10:34.200 And this V three report is not only looking at 0:10:34.210 --> 0:10:38.330 Singapore but also their projections on Southeast Asia as a whole. 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:43.280 Singapore residents obviously travel a great deal to Bangkok, Jakarta, Manila, 0:10:43.580 --> 0:10:46.650 which projection stood out for you in terms of this 0:10:46.659 --> 0:10:49.460 part of the region. What should we know about how 0:10:49.469 --> 0:10:51.789 our neighbors are going to be affected? 0:10:51.799 --> 0:10:55.520 So the impact on our neighbors is quite diverse because 0:10:55.530 --> 0:10:58.909 there are areas where we will see fairly strong increases 0:10:58.919 --> 0:11:01.559 in rainfall in some seasons and other areas where there 0:11:01.669 --> 0:11:05.209 clearly drought behavior. And so one of the important issues 0:11:05.219 --> 0:11:08.250 here for Singapore, of course, is around food security and 0:11:08.260 --> 0:11:12.348 the source countries for Singapore's food crops that we are importing. 0:11:12.359 --> 0:11:15.690 And so with regard to sea level rice. Key thing 0:11:15.700 --> 0:11:17.989 here is to look at some of those South East 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.609 Asian mega cities that are near big river delta and 0:11:22.619 --> 0:11:23.690 the potential for them 0:11:24.030 --> 0:11:27.770 to be inundated by future sea level real. And I'm 0:11:27.780 --> 0:11:29.989 sure they will address. This is another important issue when 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.690 it comes to sea level rise because there's not only 0:11:32.700 --> 0:11:36.968 the ocean that is potentially going upwards, but the land 0:11:36.979 --> 0:11:40.640 that in some regions is going downwards. So there's two processes, 0:11:40.650 --> 0:11:43.809 one is associated with climate and climate change, which is 0:11:43.820 --> 0:11:46.299 what the ocean is doing. And the other one is 0:11:46.309 --> 0:11:50.619 associated with non climate issues. And this is what we 0:11:50.630 --> 0:11:52.479 call vertical land motion 0:11:53.210 --> 0:11:58.468 and vertical land motion is impacted by earthquakes by everything 0:11:58.479 --> 0:12:03.590 that influences the local tectonics. And so we know that 0:12:03.739 --> 0:12:06.929 some areas are slightly sinking. Singapore is not, but this 0:12:06.940 --> 0:12:09.760 is a real issue across the world. And South East 0:12:09.770 --> 0:12:14.229 Asia is to understand what your land is doing relative 0:12:14.239 --> 0:12:16.260 to a rising ocean. So the 0:12:16.270 --> 0:12:18.109 thing about projections is that 0:12:18.190 --> 0:12:22.690 are in end of century time frames, that's what decades 0:12:22.700 --> 0:12:26.210 from now. So the current generations may not take it 0:12:26.219 --> 0:12:31.250 so seriously. What's the value in understanding these long term shifts? 0:12:31.260 --> 0:12:35.289 Of course, all of our information is sort of focused 0:12:35.299 --> 0:12:37.760 on the end of the century for now because this 0:12:37.770 --> 0:12:40.130 is typically done that you want to look at the 0:12:40.140 --> 0:12:44.229 delta between now and then. But our data is actually 0:12:44.239 --> 0:12:48.049 data that is between now and then on subd time steps. 0:12:48.539 --> 0:12:52.130 So we are providing data to our stakeholders, not just 0:12:52.140 --> 0:12:55.400 by the end of the century, we have information for 0:12:55.409 --> 0:12:57.199 every 10 minutes between now and then 0:12:57.609 --> 0:13:00.439 you need this kind of data to understand the daily 0:13:00.450 --> 0:13:05.640 variability in rainfall. For example, the changes in temperature and rainfall, 0:13:05.650 --> 0:13:08.010 not just by the end, but in the coming years 0:13:08.020 --> 0:13:08.819 and decades, 0:13:08.830 --> 0:13:10.619 I mean, the job of science is to show the 0:13:10.630 --> 0:13:13.348 way and this report has certainly done that. What needs 0:13:13.359 --> 0:13:16.530 to be done next to act on science? Do you 0:13:16.539 --> 0:13:18.510 feel that we have what it takes to deal with 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:19.630 these upcoming changes 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:24.130 on this sort of basic fundamental science informing the government 0:13:24.140 --> 0:13:26.109 in terms of policy and adaptation planning. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.179 This is one of the most complete sets of data 0:13:29.190 --> 0:13:32.510 that you will need and we know in the region 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.500 we are the first and we are certainly at the 0:13:34.510 --> 0:13:39.228 highest resolution. And so to us with this data armed 0:13:39.239 --> 0:13:42.650 the Singapore government can write really solid policies in terms 0:13:42.659 --> 0:13:45.200 of future changes in the decades to come. 0:13:45.299 --> 0:13:47.669 What are you most concerned about and when you are 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.549 talking to your stakeholders, what are their biggest concerns? 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.439 So my main concern is communicating our sign in a 0:13:53.450 --> 0:13:54.820 way that they can understand 0:13:55.219 --> 0:13:57.459 in a way that helps them to do whatever they 0:13:57.469 --> 0:14:00.500 need to do. I think most of their concern is 0:14:00.510 --> 0:14:05.159 the impacts of extremes on their area of business. Basically, 0:14:05.169 --> 0:14:08.989 whether it's and parks and tree falling or pub and 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.169 floods and extreme rain. And you are a for example, 0:14:13.179 --> 0:14:16.330 urban heat and we haven't actually spoken about urban heat 0:14:16.340 --> 0:14:20.469 yet because Singapore is an urban city country. And so 0:14:20.479 --> 0:14:23.500 our temperature projections that we provide are 0:14:23.780 --> 0:14:27.900 projections that at this stage don't fully take into account 0:14:27.919 --> 0:14:30.840 what we call the urban heat island effect, which is 0:14:30.849 --> 0:14:35.520 the additional warming that is due to the urban capture 0:14:35.530 --> 0:14:39.469 of heat during the day. And then the only slow 0:14:39.479 --> 0:14:42.320 release at night which keeps the temperatures warmer at night. 0:14:42.799 --> 0:14:45.549 And so we will study the urban heat Island effect 0:14:45.559 --> 0:14:47.900 because you need to go even higher in resolutions just 0:14:47.909 --> 0:14:51.510 for Singapore to understand what is the urban heat island 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.650 effect throughout this century. Do you 0:14:53.659 --> 0:14:54.760 have a time frame for this 0:14:54.770 --> 0:14:56.510 study? By the end of this year, it will be 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.530 done another deadline to. Absolutely. As I said earlier, this 0:14:59.539 --> 0:15:00.280 is just the beginning. 0:15:00.380 --> 0:15:03.280 So now that we have the data, we will analyze 0:15:03.289 --> 0:15:06.299 many more dimensions of what is still in the data 0:15:06.309 --> 0:15:09.919 and that we can communicate to our stakeholders and the public. 0:15:09.929 --> 0:15:10.299 Before I 0:15:10.309 --> 0:15:12.739 let you go, Dr I'm looking forward, how would you 0:15:12.750 --> 0:15:15.590 gauge the degree to which the findings of this report 0:15:15.599 --> 0:15:20.179 are being acknowledged or accepted and transformed into actionable 0:15:20.190 --> 0:15:22.679 measures? This is to ask a call to action that 0:15:22.690 --> 0:15:23.440 everybody 0:15:23.770 --> 0:15:26.830 can look at the results and has to understand that 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:32.030 everyone can do something to contribute to the overall reduction 0:15:32.039 --> 0:15:35.299 in carbon emissions. Whether this is on a personal footprint, 0:15:35.309 --> 0:15:36.869 on an organizational footprint, 0:15:37.130 --> 0:15:41.909 government footprint, I can tell you truthfully that Singapore is 0:15:41.919 --> 0:15:45.229 one of the very few countries I know where all 0:15:45.239 --> 0:15:48.869 of their policy and adaptation planning is based on the 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.830 solid science and they are very committed to look at 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.849 the science and then base everything on that. So I'm 0:15:54.859 --> 0:15:57.750 very impressed by how this is being done in Singapore. 0:15:57.989 --> 0:16:00.400 Ok. Well, Dr Moy, thank you very much for your 0:16:00.409 --> 0:16:01.789 insight today. Thank you, 0:16:02.739 --> 0:16:06.150 but thanks to my guest for explaining the significance of 0:16:06.159 --> 0:16:09.390 this important study. I hope you learned as much from 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.940 it as I did. And thank you for listening to 0:16:11.950 --> 0:16:15.840 the Climate Conversations. The team behind this podcast is Tiffany 0:16:15.849 --> 0:16:20.919 Yang Christina Robert, Joanne Chen and Nguyen. I'm Julie Yu 0:16:20.969 --> 0:16:21.789 signing off.