1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: This is AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:05,610 --> 00:00:08,478 Speaker 2: It's Steven here and welcome back to another episode of 3 00:00:08,489 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Heart of The Matter. What's the big deal? It's not 4 00:00:11,850 --> 00:00:16,129 Speaker 2: that bad. I won't get addicted increasingly. This is the 5 00:00:16,139 --> 00:00:19,709 Speaker 2: common refrain one hears when talking about cannabis for someone 6 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:22,670 Speaker 2: like me though, you know, over 50 a parent, I 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: worry when I hear such things because to me whether 8 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: it's cannabis, heroin, 9 00:00:26,610 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: cocaine, they're all bad regardless of the amount taken. But 10 00:00:30,850 --> 00:00:34,650 Speaker 2: for our young adults today, they'd say I'm overreacting a 11 00:00:34,668 --> 00:00:38,339 Speaker 2: Yougov survey done in 2022 found that 26% of those 12 00:00:38,348 --> 00:00:42,830 Speaker 2: aged 18 to 24 perceive cannabis as not harmful in 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 2: the 25 to 34 age range, 19% had that same impression. 14 00:00:47,970 --> 00:00:51,020 Speaker 2: And that's our topic of conversation today. Why do young 15 00:00:51,029 --> 00:00:55,159 Speaker 2: people have these so called liberal attitudes towards cannabis? Where 16 00:00:55,169 --> 00:00:58,619 Speaker 2: are they getting their information from? And what would it 17 00:00:58,630 --> 00:01:00,580 Speaker 2: take to convince them otherwise? 18 00:01:01,930 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: And with us in studio today, Ahmad Fida DAO, spokesperson, 19 00:01:05,449 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 2: National Council against drug abuse. Hi, Steve. Thanks Dr Melvin Tang, 20 00:01:10,489 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: a consultant with National Addictions Management Service at the Institute 21 00:01:14,370 --> 00:01:16,589 Speaker 2: of Mental Health. Thank you for having me on today 22 00:01:16,599 --> 00:01:20,509 Speaker 2: and Kimberly Jeremiah, a 27 year old copywriter and she's 23 00:01:20,519 --> 00:01:23,580 Speaker 2: got some questions for our experts today. Hi, thank you 24 00:01:23,589 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: for having me here today. You're the questionable one, so 25 00:01:26,129 --> 00:01:28,220 Speaker 2: to speak. Full of questions. 26 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:32,830 Speaker 2: Well, that's good because it all starts with a curiosity. So, Kim, 27 00:01:32,839 --> 00:01:34,819 Speaker 2: I'm gonna start with you because quite a lot of 28 00:01:34,830 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: chatter recently about cannabis, especially since it's now legal in countries, 29 00:01:39,169 --> 00:01:41,250 Speaker 2: you know, like Thailand as one of our favorite holiday 30 00:01:41,260 --> 00:01:44,239 Speaker 2: destinations for those of us living here in Singapore. What 31 00:01:44,250 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: is your reaction to that? Fortunately, for me, my destination 32 00:01:47,690 --> 00:01:49,449 Speaker 2: of choice is actually Indonesia, but 33 00:01:49,690 --> 00:01:52,830 Speaker 2: I've definitely been exposed to people that consume this as 34 00:01:52,839 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: well and they don't seem as addicted or it doesn't 35 00:01:58,050 --> 00:02:01,599 Speaker 2: seem to affect their life negatively as much as it 36 00:02:01,610 --> 00:02:05,199 Speaker 2: would for, let's say heroin or meth or something else. 37 00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:09,029 Speaker 2: It just doesn't seem as harmful as it looks. Ok. 38 00:02:09,038 --> 00:02:12,649 Speaker 2: So in your mind, cannabis isn't all that bad, would 39 00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:15,549 Speaker 2: you say that? Yeah, it's not all that bad. Is 40 00:02:15,559 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 2: that what your peers also 41 00:02:16,772 --> 00:02:20,382 Speaker 2: say when they talk about this issue? What are their reactions? 42 00:02:20,393 --> 00:02:24,351 Speaker 2: Mostly those that do not agree to cannabis. They come 43 00:02:24,363 --> 00:02:26,702 Speaker 2: from a more fearful approach, you know, like I don't 44 00:02:26,712 --> 00:02:28,393 Speaker 2: want to take it because I don't want to get caught. 45 00:02:28,401 --> 00:02:30,022 Speaker 2: I don't want to get in trouble with the law. 46 00:02:30,032 --> 00:02:31,932 Speaker 2: It's going to affect my career. It's going to get 47 00:02:31,942 --> 00:02:34,613 Speaker 2: me behind bars or give me a heavy fine. It's 48 00:02:34,623 --> 00:02:36,912 Speaker 2: just not worth it. So for that reason and not 49 00:02:36,923 --> 00:02:39,982 Speaker 2: because they feel it might actually harm them. Other than that, 50 00:02:39,992 --> 00:02:43,423 Speaker 2: I think they're just worried maybe the possibility of getting 51 00:02:43,431 --> 00:02:43,762 Speaker 2: addicted 52 00:02:43,856 --> 00:02:46,835 Speaker 2: to do it as well, but that's a really small percentage. Ok. 53 00:02:46,845 --> 00:02:49,166 Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing that, Kim. I'm gonna get to you 54 00:02:49,175 --> 00:02:51,785 Speaker 2: first because you work with young people as well. And 55 00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:54,235 Speaker 2: what Kim is saying is that quite normal? It is 56 00:02:54,246 --> 00:02:56,576 Speaker 2: quite normal. I used to be young myself 15 to 57 00:02:56,585 --> 00:02:59,345 Speaker 2: 20 years ago, I used to be a local musician 58 00:02:59,356 --> 00:03:03,585 Speaker 2: and cannabis was going around. Ok? So the sense that 59 00:03:03,595 --> 00:03:07,695 Speaker 2: cannabis is not harmful or won't get me addicted, I 60 00:03:07,705 --> 00:03:10,845 Speaker 2: think that perception is real but it's a misperception. 61 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,710 Speaker 2: But you see Kim if I can ask you, where 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,008 Speaker 2: are you getting your information from? Why do you feel 63 00:03:16,020 --> 00:03:19,149 Speaker 2: that this cannabis is really not that harmful? You know, 64 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,859 Speaker 2: it's funny you brought up that musicians, it was because 65 00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:25,610 Speaker 2: I was in the music circle that I got exposed 66 00:03:25,619 --> 00:03:28,059 Speaker 2: to people consuming all these things and, and when you 67 00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:29,888 Speaker 2: see them, they still seem perfect, they are fine. I 68 00:03:29,899 --> 00:03:30,550 Speaker 2: mean they 69 00:03:30,794 --> 00:03:34,264 Speaker 2: jobs, they go around their life. Yeah, so cannabis in 70 00:03:34,274 --> 00:03:37,794 Speaker 2: that sense has had no impact on their lives whatsoever. 71 00:03:37,994 --> 00:03:41,464 Speaker 2: Probably impact on their wallets like that's about it. Ok? 72 00:03:41,714 --> 00:03:44,985 Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to deny when you, you see 73 00:03:44,994 --> 00:03:48,774 Speaker 2: celebrities like snoop Dogg promoting cannabis use. Seth Rogan in 74 00:03:48,785 --> 00:03:50,184 Speaker 2: his movies and stuff like that. 75 00:03:50,889 --> 00:03:54,789 Speaker 2: In my own experience. I remember there were some cannabis 76 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,479 Speaker 2: used in my circle of friends and I have had 77 00:03:58,490 --> 00:04:00,889 Speaker 2: the benefit of 10, 15 years down the road and 78 00:04:00,899 --> 00:04:03,490 Speaker 2: I've had friends who have had to go through the 79 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:06,789 Speaker 2: consequences of addiction. You can't see it when you start out, 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,869 Speaker 2: but you can see it on hindsight. I've had friends 81 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,270 Speaker 2: that suffer from depression and anxiety because the T H 82 00:04:13,279 --> 00:04:15,660 Speaker 2: C has gotten the brain used to a certain level 83 00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:18,170 Speaker 2: of dopamine and Dr Melvin can probably answer this better. 84 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: There were worse consequences. There was this guy who got 85 00:04:21,649 --> 00:04:24,149 Speaker 2: so addicted. He went on to try synthetic we eat 86 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,660 Speaker 2: meth and he got schizophrenia. He was in and out 87 00:04:27,670 --> 00:04:30,100 Speaker 2: of I mh and he was one of the better 88 00:04:30,109 --> 00:04:32,079 Speaker 2: looking of all of us. So we were really quite 89 00:04:32,089 --> 00:04:35,100 Speaker 2: sad that our life was lost. Ok, let's let's get 90 00:04:35,109 --> 00:04:37,450 Speaker 2: a bit of a medical take on this Dr Melvin 91 00:04:37,459 --> 00:04:39,470 Speaker 2: because you've heard what both of them have shared 92 00:04:39,769 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 2: and for Kim who says, you know, yeah, my friends 93 00:04:42,290 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 2: all seem fine. So what's the worry? What would you 94 00:04:44,928 --> 00:04:47,459 Speaker 2: say to that? So I guess that's a common misconception 95 00:04:47,470 --> 00:04:49,450 Speaker 2: that a lot of young people maybe, you know, when 96 00:04:49,459 --> 00:04:53,109 Speaker 2: some young adults have towards cannabis use, it seems fine. 97 00:04:53,119 --> 00:04:55,609 Speaker 2: A lot of celebrities are endorsing it and with the 98 00:04:55,619 --> 00:04:59,250 Speaker 2: legalization of cannabis use for medical purposes as well as 99 00:04:59,260 --> 00:05:02,049 Speaker 2: for other recreation use in other countries that has kind 100 00:05:02,059 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: of normalized. Many of the young people's attitudes towards cannabis. 101 00:05:05,609 --> 00:05:08,399 Speaker 2: But it's not true that cannabis use is without its harm. 102 00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:10,868 Speaker 2: It's not true that cannabis use is less addictive as 103 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,100 Speaker 2: compared to conventional drugs like heroin, methamphetamine or eyes or 104 00:05:15,109 --> 00:05:17,899 Speaker 2: even legal drugs like alcohol. The truth of the matter 105 00:05:17,910 --> 00:05:20,220 Speaker 2: is that when you use cannabis, the active component in 106 00:05:20,230 --> 00:05:23,190 Speaker 2: cannabis which is a delta tetra hydro cannabinoid does act 107 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,660 Speaker 2: on the same areas of your brain as compared to 108 00:05:25,670 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: when you're using alcohol. When you're using heroin, 109 00:05:28,399 --> 00:05:30,558 Speaker 2: if you're using it over a period of time, it's 110 00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: likely that you might have a chance of developing consequential 111 00:05:33,730 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: addiction to the substance. So this is the T H C. 112 00:05:36,559 --> 00:05:39,220 Speaker 2: That's right. And you're saying it messes with your brain, 113 00:05:39,230 --> 00:05:41,790 Speaker 2: does it sort of rewire and change your brain? 114 00:05:42,089 --> 00:05:45,059 Speaker 2: So usually what we observe from patients and based on 115 00:05:45,070 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: the research literature is that when you are acutely using, 116 00:05:47,850 --> 00:05:50,488 Speaker 2: that means you are using cannabis, maybe once off, you 117 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:52,980 Speaker 2: have a path, you know, you smoke a joint or 118 00:05:52,988 --> 00:05:56,070 Speaker 2: maybe you encounter or you consume some products that edible 119 00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: products that consume cannabis. Most patients because these products would 120 00:05:59,928 --> 00:06:02,419 Speaker 2: in turn have a certain percentage of the active compound, 121 00:06:02,428 --> 00:06:03,289 Speaker 2: which is T H C. 122 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,670 Speaker 2: After consumption, they tend to experience euphoric feelings, but depending 123 00:06:07,678 --> 00:06:09,420 Speaker 2: on the percentage of T H C, it might bring 124 00:06:09,428 --> 00:06:13,089 Speaker 2: about other abnormal unusual feelings. It's not uncommon that they 125 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 2: might have some acute hallucinations, they might see things which 126 00:06:15,850 --> 00:06:17,969 Speaker 2: are not there, they might hear voices, which are not 127 00:06:17,980 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: there as well. Many of Kim's friends I imagine would say, 128 00:06:20,928 --> 00:06:23,018 Speaker 2: but I just feel calm and relaxed, you know, I 129 00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:25,510 Speaker 2: don't get these hallucinations and things like that. So, 130 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,849 Speaker 2: should I be worried about it? I think they should 131 00:06:27,859 --> 00:06:30,529 Speaker 2: be worried because we, we don't know about their individual 132 00:06:30,540 --> 00:06:33,659 Speaker 2: predisposing factors. So for some of her friends or some 133 00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:36,250 Speaker 2: of the other individuals who might have other risk factors. 134 00:06:36,260 --> 00:06:38,579 Speaker 2: For example, if you have a family history of other 135 00:06:38,589 --> 00:06:40,609 Speaker 2: substance use or you have a family history of a 136 00:06:40,619 --> 00:06:43,890 Speaker 2: mental health condition or you have other factors that increase 137 00:06:43,899 --> 00:06:46,029 Speaker 2: your chances of getting an addict 138 00:06:46,109 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: addiction disorder or developing a mental health disorder. Your use 139 00:06:49,769 --> 00:06:52,950 Speaker 2: of cannabis could actually increase your chance over time of 140 00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:55,390 Speaker 2: getting all these other mental health conditions. I have to 141 00:06:55,399 --> 00:06:57,738 Speaker 2: challenge this a little bit Dr Melvin because when we 142 00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:00,039 Speaker 2: were doing research for an episode of a talking point 143 00:07:00,049 --> 00:07:03,690 Speaker 2: as well, addiction doesn't occur to everyone, not everyone is 144 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: predisposed to becoming an addict. Some would argue and say 145 00:07:06,209 --> 00:07:06,380 Speaker 2: that 146 00:07:06,709 --> 00:07:09,209 Speaker 2: the chances of me becoming an addict because of one 147 00:07:09,220 --> 00:07:11,950 Speaker 2: or two hits of cannabis is very low. Is there 148 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:15,130 Speaker 2: any truth to that? Well, that might be a misconception 149 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: as well. You need to look at not only your 150 00:07:17,209 --> 00:07:20,170 Speaker 2: genetic risk factors. So like I mentioned just now about 151 00:07:20,179 --> 00:07:22,910 Speaker 2: your family history of mental health condition, family history of 152 00:07:23,019 --> 00:07:23,059 Speaker 2: addic 153 00:07:23,250 --> 00:07:26,329 Speaker 2: disorders. You need to know for some individuals that for example, 154 00:07:26,339 --> 00:07:28,910 Speaker 2: have very young individuals like adolescent where the brain is 155 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,549 Speaker 2: still developing, they might have heightened risk propensity to engage 156 00:07:32,559 --> 00:07:35,190 Speaker 2: in risk behaviors, which in turn will actually cause them 157 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,470 Speaker 2: to maybe after experiencing a positive feeling from using cannabis 158 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,679 Speaker 2: on one or two occasions, persist to use the cannabis 159 00:07:41,690 --> 00:07:44,260 Speaker 2: in order to re experience their positive feeling and to 160 00:07:44,269 --> 00:07:47,529 Speaker 2: also ensure that they don't get any negative withdrawal symptoms. 161 00:07:47,790 --> 00:07:51,070 Speaker 2: Some individuals who do not use cannabis, they might experience 162 00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: some negative symptoms, they might feel like they have reduction 163 00:07:54,010 --> 00:07:56,829 Speaker 2: in their appetite, their sleep a bit disturbed, they might 164 00:07:56,839 --> 00:08:00,399 Speaker 2: have other bodily changes if they are not using Kim. 165 00:08:00,410 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: What do you think? There are people I know that 166 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:06,209 Speaker 2: have history of like mental health conditions and all I 167 00:08:06,220 --> 00:08:10,559 Speaker 2: personally don't really see the negative effects of the consumption 168 00:08:10,570 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 2: of cannabis because of the mental health conditions. In fact, 169 00:08:13,690 --> 00:08:14,420 Speaker 2: it's more like 170 00:08:14,679 --> 00:08:19,980 Speaker 2: this person started abusing his own prescriptive medications first and 171 00:08:19,989 --> 00:08:22,290 Speaker 2: then when it came to wheat, it's just like a 172 00:08:22,299 --> 00:08:24,649 Speaker 2: glass of wine. Yeah, it hardly has any effect because 173 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: everything else is even worse. So it's the lesser of 174 00:08:28,609 --> 00:08:31,989 Speaker 2: two evils almost. Yeah. Yeah. In a sense people are 175 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,669 Speaker 2: listening can't see Dr Melvin's face change and go like, 176 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,780 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, it sounds like the the individual that 177 00:08:37,789 --> 00:08:40,390 Speaker 2: you're describing is using weed to actually medicate some of 178 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,429 Speaker 2: the other psychiatric symptoms that you have. 179 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:45,380 Speaker 2: And it, it just seemed that the individual realize the 180 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:48,988 Speaker 2: negative consequences that we could do towards him. Because there 181 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,780 Speaker 2: have been research studies to show that over the long 182 00:08:51,789 --> 00:08:54,449 Speaker 2: period of time, we are using wheat or cannabis. You 183 00:08:54,460 --> 00:08:59,119 Speaker 2: are increasingly predisposed to memory difficulties, cognitive impairment. You might 184 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:00,530 Speaker 2: have a higher chance of being at risk 185 00:09:00,594 --> 00:09:04,215 Speaker 2: for developing psychosis or schizophrenia where there will be very 186 00:09:04,224 --> 00:09:08,164 Speaker 2: pervasive ter hallucination or bitter hallucinations that you could experience. 187 00:09:08,174 --> 00:09:11,164 Speaker 2: So generally, it's a downhill path from what you're saying, 188 00:09:11,174 --> 00:09:13,304 Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like things get better, you feel better 189 00:09:13,315 --> 00:09:16,145 Speaker 2: for the moment, but then you need more and more 190 00:09:16,155 --> 00:09:20,304 Speaker 2: to give you the same sensation of what eventually becomes 191 00:09:20,315 --> 00:09:23,515 Speaker 2: a normal day for you, right? So for an individual 192 00:09:23,525 --> 00:09:25,895 Speaker 2: who starts using, we, if he or she is using 193 00:09:25,905 --> 00:09:26,974 Speaker 2: one or two times 194 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:30,059 Speaker 2: most typically, they would describe to us the positive feelings 195 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:33,978 Speaker 2: after using euphoria, maybe the appetite is better, the energy 196 00:09:33,989 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: levels are good, they feel very relaxed after using, but 197 00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:38,750 Speaker 2: sometimes when they are not using and it's so really 198 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,859 Speaker 2: dependent on the concentration of the product they are using 199 00:09:41,869 --> 00:09:44,299 Speaker 2: because we know that different kinds of product out there 200 00:09:44,380 --> 00:09:46,770 Speaker 2: at times, you are not sure about what's the concentration 201 00:09:46,780 --> 00:09:49,869 Speaker 2: of the active component, which is the concentration of the 202 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:50,619 Speaker 2: T AC. 203 00:09:50,710 --> 00:09:53,580 Speaker 2: So some products might have a very high concentration. And 204 00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:56,710 Speaker 2: especially when you're talking about synthetic products, which they actually 205 00:09:56,719 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 2: spray the T H C on some other materials. The 206 00:09:59,609 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: concentration could be very high as well. Over time, you know, 207 00:10:02,530 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 2: some individuals would actually continuously use weed that I say 208 00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:09,859 Speaker 2: to actually manage the negative symptoms. There, difficulties with their appetite, 209 00:10:09,869 --> 00:10:13,090 Speaker 2: difficulties with the sleep of the anxiety that they develop 210 00:10:13,099 --> 00:10:14,020 Speaker 2: if they are not using 211 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,669 Speaker 2: this in turn, lead to a vicious cycle of the addiction, 212 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: but it starts off fairly innocently. And of course, in Thailand, 213 00:10:20,289 --> 00:10:22,409 Speaker 2: we know it's legal there. But when we did the 214 00:10:22,419 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: show again, for talking point, we discovered that again, you're 215 00:10:24,650 --> 00:10:26,549 Speaker 2: not sure as you mentioned, how much is in the 216 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,969 Speaker 2: food or the drink that I'm consuming, right? And 217 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,119 Speaker 2: that could be very dangerous. Ok. What's gonna happen is Kim, 218 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:34,090 Speaker 2: we want to open it to you for a while 219 00:10:34,099 --> 00:10:37,929 Speaker 2: and basically any questions you have represent your generation, you know, 220 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:40,409 Speaker 2: ask our experts here, some of the things that you 221 00:10:40,419 --> 00:10:42,289 Speaker 2: and your friends have on top of your mind with 222 00:10:42,299 --> 00:10:45,369 Speaker 2: regards to this issue of cannabis, go for it. Ok. 223 00:10:45,380 --> 00:10:47,929 Speaker 2: So I think the first question I have is I 224 00:10:47,940 --> 00:10:54,309 Speaker 2: have been told that smoking weed is healthier than smoking cigarettes, nicotine. 225 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,599 Speaker 2: Is that true? Of course, that's not true. I have 226 00:10:56,609 --> 00:10:57,789 Speaker 2: to disagree with you, Kim 227 00:10:58,090 --> 00:11:01,250 Speaker 2: smoking weed as well as smoking nicotine, you know, predispose 228 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:02,710 Speaker 2: you to the same kind of risk. If you are 229 00:11:02,719 --> 00:11:04,650 Speaker 2: smoking weed over a longer period of time, it does 230 00:11:04,659 --> 00:11:07,780 Speaker 2: result in respiratory difficulties, it does cause impact on your 231 00:11:07,789 --> 00:11:11,099 Speaker 2: physical health. We have studies that demonstrated this and this 232 00:11:11,109 --> 00:11:13,419 Speaker 2: is far and beyond what we have just discussed about 233 00:11:13,429 --> 00:11:16,130 Speaker 2: the potential risk of addiction as well. You know, you 234 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:18,809 Speaker 2: were saying that the T H C activates the same 235 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:21,859 Speaker 2: addiction response as you would with alcohol, right? That's right. 236 00:11:21,869 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: So it's still activating the same thing and alcohol is legal. 237 00:11:25,409 --> 00:11:27,390 Speaker 2: So which one is worse? 238 00:11:27,739 --> 00:11:30,030 Speaker 2: OK. Is that really a bad thing? You know. So 239 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:32,830 Speaker 2: what we observe in individuals who are actually using cannabis 240 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,929 Speaker 2: is that cannabis use active component, which is T H 241 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:37,939 Speaker 2: C will act on mainly two areas of the brain. 242 00:11:37,950 --> 00:11:40,478 Speaker 2: And these two areas are also commonly activated if you 243 00:11:40,489 --> 00:11:43,239 Speaker 2: use other substances like alcohol. So the area in your 244 00:11:43,250 --> 00:11:47,250 Speaker 2: brain which is responsible for motivation, salience of behaviors, of 245 00:11:47,260 --> 00:11:50,289 Speaker 2: course activated. The other area which is activated is the 246 00:11:50,299 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 2: frontal areas of your brain, which is your dorsal lateral 247 00:11:52,729 --> 00:11:56,030 Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex. So your do later prefrontal cortex is very 248 00:11:56,039 --> 00:11:57,289 Speaker 2: important for you to make calculation. 249 00:11:57,390 --> 00:12:01,159 Speaker 2: The decision is very important for your judgment abilities as well. 250 00:12:01,169 --> 00:12:04,359 Speaker 2: Two other areas of the brain might also be affected 251 00:12:04,369 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: when someone uses cannabis, which are your cerebellum as well 252 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 2: as your hippocampus, you know, and the hippocampus is actually 253 00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:14,728 Speaker 2: very essential for synapse formation for memory formation. OK. So 254 00:12:14,739 --> 00:12:17,409 Speaker 2: you need to understand that if you're using cannabis across 255 00:12:17,419 --> 00:12:20,270 Speaker 2: a period of time, there's a definitely a residual impact 256 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: that cannabis have on your memory processes. And this is 257 00:12:23,530 --> 00:12:26,979 Speaker 2: especially so for an adolescent when the brain is still developing. 258 00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:29,659 Speaker 2: And there have been studies to show who have checked 259 00:12:29,669 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: that adolescent brain across a period of time for a 260 00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:34,590 Speaker 2: couple of years and show that there have been changes 261 00:12:34,599 --> 00:12:36,409 Speaker 2: in the front area, areas of the brain as well. 262 00:12:36,419 --> 00:12:38,979 Speaker 2: So in a way, the younger you start, the more 263 00:12:38,989 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: susceptible you are to damaging your brain, right? I think 264 00:12:41,969 --> 00:12:44,690 Speaker 2: what Kim is also asking if you could compare smoking, 265 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:48,260 Speaker 2: drinking and drugs, which is the worst I have to 266 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:49,460 Speaker 2: say as an addiction psychiatrist, 267 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: right? But I mean for cannabis, there's a lot of 268 00:12:53,450 --> 00:12:56,359 Speaker 2: the figures to show that cannabis use results in multiple 269 00:12:56,369 --> 00:13:00,479 Speaker 2: other physical as well as psychiatric complications. Cannabis use increase 270 00:13:00,489 --> 00:13:04,390 Speaker 2: one risk of developing psychosis and schizophrenia. So those are 271 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,469 Speaker 2: risks that you need to be aware even before you 272 00:13:06,479 --> 00:13:09,569 Speaker 2: actually decide whether you want to consume the cannabis. So 273 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:11,619 Speaker 2: all three overconsumption obviously 274 00:13:11,710 --> 00:13:13,739 Speaker 2: bad. But I think from what uh Doctor Melvin is 275 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: saying cannabis is probably the worst fidel. Do you want 276 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: to jump in and add to that? I think Dr 277 00:13:18,190 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: Melvin really addressed the signs of it. If we're gonna 278 00:13:20,890 --> 00:13:23,289 Speaker 2: start from the approach of which of these three harms 279 00:13:23,299 --> 00:13:25,359 Speaker 2: should I be doing? I think that's the wrong starting 280 00:13:25,369 --> 00:13:28,919 Speaker 2: approach from my experience. There are three reasons why young 281 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: people might be interested to try drugs. The first one 282 00:13:31,690 --> 00:13:33,780 Speaker 2: is curiosity, which is quite common. 283 00:13:34,109 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: The young people just naturally want to explore what they 284 00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: can get away with go clubbing, drinking drugs and stuff 285 00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:43,669 Speaker 2: like that. That's where clarifying misinformation is important. So Dr 286 00:13:43,809 --> 00:13:46,949 Speaker 2: Melvin really gave us quite a lot of clarifications there. 287 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:50,429 Speaker 2: But the other two reasons is that young people want 288 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,770 Speaker 2: to rely on drugs to cope with the situation that 289 00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:56,359 Speaker 2: they might have. It can range from having chronic pain 290 00:13:56,429 --> 00:13:59,989 Speaker 2: and using cannabis to deal with that trying to escape 291 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,780 Speaker 2: from a bad environment or, or all that kind of thing. 292 00:14:03,150 --> 00:14:06,770 Speaker 2: Someone in that position would not really be interested in 293 00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:09,859 Speaker 2: hearing the signs of it. So I have a quick story. 294 00:14:09,869 --> 00:14:12,590 Speaker 2: Um I used to be a criminal lawyer for a 295 00:14:12,599 --> 00:14:16,049 Speaker 2: bit and there was a 19 year old boy who 296 00:14:16,059 --> 00:14:19,359 Speaker 2: lives with his 70 year old grandmother, father was incarcerated 297 00:14:19,369 --> 00:14:22,109 Speaker 2: for drug offenses and the mother cut off contact. So 298 00:14:22,119 --> 00:14:24,349 Speaker 2: he was studying real hard and he got decent results 299 00:14:24,359 --> 00:14:26,919 Speaker 2: for N LEVELS and he was accepted to I T 300 00:14:26,929 --> 00:14:28,419 Speaker 2: E and he went to meet his mother 301 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:31,049 Speaker 2: and his mother just rejected him. I don't want to 302 00:14:31,059 --> 00:14:33,859 Speaker 2: support you. He was devastated, he tore up his offer 303 00:14:33,869 --> 00:14:37,039 Speaker 2: letter and that night he decided to take math and 304 00:14:37,049 --> 00:14:38,780 Speaker 2: he shared some math with his friend and he got 305 00:14:38,789 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 2: charged for trafficking. So in that situation, I think it's 306 00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:44,849 Speaker 2: not so much. Is it harmful or not? It was 307 00:14:44,859 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: a self destructive behavior. That's something that I think we 308 00:14:47,530 --> 00:14:50,330 Speaker 2: also need to address. The third reason why young people 309 00:14:50,340 --> 00:14:53,710 Speaker 2: want to try drugs is culture, peer influence, peer pressure. 310 00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:56,619 Speaker 2: And that's something that they might know that it is harmful, 311 00:14:56,630 --> 00:14:58,580 Speaker 2: but they feel that they don't have a choice. 312 00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:06,289 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 313 00:15:06,299 --> 00:15:08,700 Speaker 2: we're the host of a podcast called Work It if 314 00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:10,700 Speaker 2: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 315 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:13,500 Speaker 2: to tap in. In the last 20 episodes. We've discussed 316 00:15:13,510 --> 00:15:16,679 Speaker 2: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 317 00:15:16,690 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 318 00:15:19,289 --> 00:15:20,260 Speaker 2: values from you. 319 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:24,210 Speaker 2: Incidentally is our top performing episode. If work consumes your 320 00:15:24,219 --> 00:15:27,849 Speaker 2: life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress, 321 00:15:27,859 --> 00:15:31,669 Speaker 2: even office romance, this podcast should be on your list. 322 00:15:31,849 --> 00:15:34,750 Speaker 2: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 323 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,710 Speaker 2: C N A app or wherever you get your podcast. 324 00:15:40,690 --> 00:15:43,369 Speaker 2: Kim would argue. Maybe I, I'm guessing that, you know, 325 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:45,890 Speaker 2: not many of her friends are in that situation. They 326 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:48,330 Speaker 2: are fortunate enough to not be in those circumstances where 327 00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:51,299 Speaker 2: drugs become just a form of escape, right? But in 328 00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:53,500 Speaker 2: this case, is it curiosity? They just want to try 329 00:15:53,510 --> 00:15:55,390 Speaker 2: it or is it just I want to feel good 330 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,059 Speaker 2: for this time a short while. So instead of drinking, 331 00:15:58,070 --> 00:16:01,349 Speaker 2: I'll just take some cannabis, I think for people um 332 00:16:01,359 --> 00:16:04,419 Speaker 2: around our age, curiosity is one part of it. But 333 00:16:04,429 --> 00:16:06,799 Speaker 2: when it comes to, let's say consuming it, 334 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,869 Speaker 2: escape from their personal problems or for self destructive behaviors, 335 00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:13,619 Speaker 2: then I think the problem is more of addiction more 336 00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:16,690 Speaker 2: than cannabis because you can be addicted to anything and 337 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:18,809 Speaker 2: that can destroy your life either way, you know, gambling 338 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:21,530 Speaker 2: can destroy your life. Alcohol can destroy your life. Weed 339 00:16:21,539 --> 00:16:23,799 Speaker 2: can destroy your life, you know. So, so would you 340 00:16:23,809 --> 00:16:26,489 Speaker 2: say cannabis is then on that day, I'm feeling down, 341 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:29,289 Speaker 2: I could have a cigarette, I could have a drink 342 00:16:29,299 --> 00:16:31,119 Speaker 2: or I could smoke some cannabis. Those are the three 343 00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:33,380 Speaker 2: options and it just happens some days they do cannabis 344 00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:34,349 Speaker 2: some days they drink. 345 00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:36,690 Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose they could just do any one of 346 00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:40,419 Speaker 2: them and especially if they don't think it's harmful and 347 00:16:40,429 --> 00:16:42,340 Speaker 2: if they have already tried it and they have not 348 00:16:42,349 --> 00:16:46,099 Speaker 2: experienced negative effects, there's no reason why they should stop. Right? 349 00:16:46,109 --> 00:16:47,409 Speaker 2: I think that's the key when you said I've done 350 00:16:47,419 --> 00:16:50,770 Speaker 2: it before. Nothing happened. So why can't I do it again? Yeah, 351 00:16:50,780 --> 00:16:52,890 Speaker 2: we'll come back to your question, Kim. You have more 352 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:55,599 Speaker 2: of them. I know the first time I was exposed 353 00:16:55,609 --> 00:16:59,340 Speaker 2: to cannabis on my own without my friends. 354 00:16:59,434 --> 00:17:04,165 Speaker 2: It was online. Actually, I saw some ad for sanitary 355 00:17:04,175 --> 00:17:07,844 Speaker 2: pads and then they have like those period management pain 356 00:17:07,854 --> 00:17:10,635 Speaker 2: management thing. It looked very attractive. It was like a 357 00:17:10,645 --> 00:17:14,915 Speaker 2: really pretty box with chocolate oil, some oil that you 358 00:17:14,925 --> 00:17:17,583 Speaker 2: massage onto your body and then they call it like 359 00:17:17,594 --> 00:17:21,333 Speaker 2: CBD chocolate CBD oil. And me being a, I thought 360 00:17:21,344 --> 00:17:23,324 Speaker 2: it was like central business district. 361 00:17:25,629 --> 00:17:28,177 Speaker 2: Yeah. And, yeah, I really, I added the card, you know, 362 00:17:28,188 --> 00:17:30,568 Speaker 2: when I was about to, like, purchase it and after 363 00:17:30,578 --> 00:17:33,249 Speaker 2: I went to Google, like, what is this, like CBD oil? 364 00:17:33,259 --> 00:17:35,648 Speaker 2: And then I realized, oh, it's weird. But it also 365 00:17:35,659 --> 00:17:39,548 Speaker 2: made me, like, wonder if this could be used for 366 00:17:39,558 --> 00:17:41,229 Speaker 2: pain management for like period 367 00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:43,060 Speaker 2: and all. And if people just take it on a 368 00:17:43,069 --> 00:17:47,379 Speaker 2: monthly basis to deal with period cramps, I suppose the 369 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:51,189 Speaker 2: dosage might be within the levels that doesn't cause addiction. 370 00:17:51,199 --> 00:17:54,109 Speaker 2: Is that true? Yeah, Dr Melvin could it lead to 371 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,150 Speaker 2: addiction and taking it unknowingly? And then one day realizing, 372 00:17:58,670 --> 00:18:01,060 Speaker 2: you know, Kim, it's interesting what you found online. I'm 373 00:18:01,069 --> 00:18:06,060 Speaker 2: quite surprised by the actually, OK, this is also goes 374 00:18:06,069 --> 00:18:08,209 Speaker 2: to show that there are many products that could potentially 375 00:18:08,219 --> 00:18:12,189 Speaker 2: contain components of cannabis or even some other derivative from 376 00:18:12,199 --> 00:18:15,030 Speaker 2: the plant. For example, they are being manufactured into CBD oil. 377 00:18:15,489 --> 00:18:18,069 Speaker 2: So I think there's quite a lot of misconception about 378 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:21,099 Speaker 2: medical cannabis. That's where your question is leading us to. 379 00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:23,219 Speaker 2: So a lot of people think that cannabis is being 380 00:18:23,229 --> 00:18:25,938 Speaker 2: legalized for medical purposes and cannabis could be used to 381 00:18:25,949 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 2: treat many medical conditions. For example, if you describe that 382 00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:31,290 Speaker 2: some period pain and the CBD oil, it could potentially 383 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:33,189 Speaker 2: help you with this period pain. But the truth of 384 00:18:33,199 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: the matter is that, you know, research has shown that 385 00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:38,550 Speaker 2: the evidence with regards to the use of medical cannabis 386 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: for many of the other common medical condition is quite inconclusive. 387 00:18:43,050 --> 00:18:46,300 Speaker 2: There remains insufficient evidence to support the use of cannabis 388 00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:49,139 Speaker 2: for most of the routine medical conditions that we see. 389 00:18:49,479 --> 00:18:51,790 Speaker 2: In fact, the FDA has a very limited numbers of 390 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,109 Speaker 2: cannabis based products or derivatives of cannabis that they have 391 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,770 Speaker 2: actually approved. In fact, the FDA have only approved 2 392 00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: to 3 drugs which from my knowledge and these are 393 00:19:01,010 --> 00:19:04,550 Speaker 2: used in very special circumstances. For example, one of the 394 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: drug is actually being used to treat seizures in a 395 00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:08,209 Speaker 2: very rare genetic disorder. 396 00:19:08,479 --> 00:19:11,130 Speaker 2: Two other drugs are actually being used uh licensed for 397 00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:15,130 Speaker 2: use to treat chemotherapy, associated nausea and vomiting kind of symptoms. 398 00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:18,619 Speaker 2: And another drug is to release the anorexia feelings in 399 00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:21,380 Speaker 2: someone with a HIV condition. So you're saying it's only 400 00:19:21,390 --> 00:19:26,239 Speaker 2: in very few and very specific circumstances that medical marijuana 401 00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:26,510 Speaker 2: is 402 00:19:26,979 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: acceptable. So I think the common misconception is cannabis is 403 00:19:29,650 --> 00:19:32,099 Speaker 2: being used to treat all kinds of pain condition, but 404 00:19:32,109 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 2: it's absolutely not true because there still remains inconclusive evidence 405 00:19:35,729 --> 00:19:39,060 Speaker 2: for this. Ok. Will there ever be a day where 406 00:19:39,069 --> 00:19:43,129 Speaker 2: Singapore will legalize the use of cannabis for medical purposes? 407 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,449 Speaker 2: I don't think he can answer this question. But I mean, 408 00:19:45,619 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 2: maybe the question is, is there a point in an 409 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:52,379 Speaker 2: argument for medical cannabis to be used in a country 410 00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:53,169 Speaker 2: like Singapore, 411 00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:55,849 Speaker 2: I think in a study that we did in 2015 412 00:19:55,859 --> 00:19:58,260 Speaker 2: in Institute of Mental Health, where we look at evidence, evidence, 413 00:19:58,270 --> 00:20:00,869 Speaker 2: they still remain quite inconclusive evidence for the use of 414 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,150 Speaker 2: medical cannabis. And really, they are very limited to conditions 415 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,469 Speaker 2: that we have potentially exhausted all forms of treatment. I 416 00:20:08,479 --> 00:20:11,729 Speaker 2: think in Singapore, we have a tolerance policy to drug use. 417 00:20:11,739 --> 00:20:14,500 Speaker 2: We have seen how damaging cannabis use and other illicit 418 00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:17,540 Speaker 2: drug has on the impacts of one's lives. Well, I 419 00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 2: don't think there's enough of an argument at this point 420 00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:20,819 Speaker 2: in time. And Kim, 421 00:20:20,949 --> 00:20:22,989 Speaker 2: I got to admit, I mean, the fact that you asked, 422 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,310 Speaker 2: are you hoping that it would happen one day? Do 423 00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:29,050 Speaker 2: you feel that there's enough evidence to support legalizing something 424 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:32,709 Speaker 2: like cannabis coming back to that period pain thing? It 425 00:20:32,719 --> 00:20:34,750 Speaker 2: did look very attractive. I mean, it was just a 426 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 2: very pretty package lah. I wish there were more options 427 00:20:38,449 --> 00:20:41,739 Speaker 2: available for, let's say, period pain management, but there could 428 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: be anything, it could be anything as well. Ok, because 429 00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:47,069 Speaker 2: I'm a bit worried the fact that you asked that 430 00:20:47,859 --> 00:20:48,420 Speaker 2: I'm sure 431 00:20:48,770 --> 00:20:51,589 Speaker 2: because obviously I'm coming from a generation where I'm thinking 432 00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:53,630 Speaker 2: for me, any kind of drugs is bad. I would 433 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,739 Speaker 2: never even want to see this kind of stuff legal 434 00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:59,069 Speaker 2: in a country like Singapore. Also thinking of my Children 435 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:00,900 Speaker 2: and then they'll be in your shoes thinking, oh, maybe 436 00:21:00,910 --> 00:21:03,599 Speaker 2: it's not so bad then I worry about that. 437 00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 2: So I just got to say a bit surprised to 438 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:09,540 Speaker 2: hear that. How would you respond? Because obviously she's coming 439 00:21:09,550 --> 00:21:11,849 Speaker 2: from a different point of view than the rest of us. 440 00:21:11,859 --> 00:21:15,619 Speaker 2: I can understand where you're coming from. 15, 20 years ago. 441 00:21:15,630 --> 00:21:17,900 Speaker 2: I probably have the same mindset, the same questions. But 442 00:21:17,910 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 2: from my experience, I've looked back 443 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,449 Speaker 2: and a couple of conclusions I have arrived at and one, 444 00:21:22,459 --> 00:21:25,270 Speaker 2: we tend to focus on the ones from the users 445 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,630 Speaker 2: that are not affected by cannabis. And sometimes it takes 446 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: a while before you see the effects. So it's a 447 00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:34,229 Speaker 2: bit of a survivorship bias. So we kind of see, 448 00:21:34,239 --> 00:21:38,510 Speaker 2: for example, school dropouts become billionaires and everybody who drops 449 00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:41,349 Speaker 2: out from school becomes a billionaire. That's an extreme example. 450 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,550 Speaker 2: But it's the same principle applies here. 451 00:21:44,069 --> 00:21:46,050 Speaker 2: Uh We kind of pick and choose what we want 452 00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:49,079 Speaker 2: to see to support our argument, right? It's human nature 453 00:21:49,089 --> 00:21:51,010 Speaker 2: I think and once we have tried it, once we 454 00:21:51,020 --> 00:21:53,709 Speaker 2: think it would happen to me, but every time you 455 00:21:53,719 --> 00:21:57,829 Speaker 2: take a puff of cannabis, it's a gamble and your 456 00:21:57,839 --> 00:22:00,969 Speaker 2: life is at stake. So, ok, let me raise one 457 00:22:00,979 --> 00:22:03,209 Speaker 2: that I actually heard from someone who wrote in after 458 00:22:03,219 --> 00:22:05,770 Speaker 2: seeing our talking point episode, they asked them, can I 459 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:08,810 Speaker 2: get high from secondhand smoke? So let's say I'm in 460 00:22:08,819 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: a room and everyone's smoking weed, right? Should I be 461 00:22:11,569 --> 00:22:13,500 Speaker 2: worried too? Doctor Melvin? 462 00:22:13,939 --> 00:22:15,469 Speaker 2: I don't know if you have answer for that because 463 00:22:15,479 --> 00:22:18,310 Speaker 2: she's concerned that, you know, now you may go to Thailand, 464 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:20,079 Speaker 2: you do some business dealings, you're in a room and 465 00:22:20,089 --> 00:22:23,589 Speaker 2: everyone's having a good time smoking away. There's always a 466 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:27,379 Speaker 2: theoretical risk that you could potentially get high because we 467 00:22:27,390 --> 00:22:29,839 Speaker 2: are not sure how much of the c compound is 468 00:22:29,849 --> 00:22:32,060 Speaker 2: being released into the air. And we are also not 469 00:22:32,069 --> 00:22:34,489 Speaker 2: sure about the concentration that the person is actually smoking. 470 00:22:34,719 --> 00:22:36,619 Speaker 2: So it's tough to actually say that he or she 471 00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:38,969 Speaker 2: will get high. Ok. So it's more like, I guess 472 00:22:38,979 --> 00:22:43,688 Speaker 2: if you're in an enclosed room with no ventilation that, 473 00:22:43,699 --> 00:22:45,229 Speaker 2: you know, and if the person is burning out a 474 00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:47,709 Speaker 2: few joints and there's a potential risk that he or 475 00:22:47,719 --> 00:22:49,079 Speaker 2: she might get high. But if he or she is 476 00:22:49,089 --> 00:22:51,510 Speaker 2: in the general public, I don't think there's a risk 477 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,530 Speaker 2: of he or she getting high. I do want to 478 00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:57,050 Speaker 2: remind ourselves of Singapore, zero tolerance to drugs. And 479 00:22:57,349 --> 00:22:59,139 Speaker 2: it's not about whether you get high, it's whether you 480 00:22:59,150 --> 00:23:01,270 Speaker 2: have T ac in your system. And if you go 481 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,839 Speaker 2: for urine test, you might fall foul of the law. No, 482 00:23:03,849 --> 00:23:05,790 Speaker 2: we understand that the moment in Singapore, if you are 483 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,270 Speaker 2: caught with it in your system, regardless of where you 484 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: took it when you took it, you know, 485 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,739 Speaker 2: but I just want to jump on that question because 486 00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:13,849 Speaker 2: people are also asking how long does it stay in 487 00:23:13,859 --> 00:23:16,250 Speaker 2: my system? The duration that T AC stays on the 488 00:23:16,260 --> 00:23:19,290 Speaker 2: system depends on the amount that you consume. The nature 489 00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:22,339 Speaker 2: of your consumption. Whether you smoke it, you use other 490 00:23:22,349 --> 00:23:25,349 Speaker 2: products to vaporize it or whether you eat it and 491 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,619 Speaker 2: the chronicity of your usage as well. If you are 492 00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 2: using it chronically, could stay in your system for at 493 00:23:29,890 --> 00:23:32,410 Speaker 2: least up to over six weeks. We heard just now 494 00:23:32,420 --> 00:23:34,209 Speaker 2: that there are various methods to test for T AC 495 00:23:34,219 --> 00:23:37,390 Speaker 2: as well. Commonly, we know that our local enforcement agency 496 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,939 Speaker 2: would acquire urine sample. 497 00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: But the other form of testing, for example, they could 498 00:23:41,689 --> 00:23:43,859 Speaker 2: get a hair sample and cannabis could stay in a 499 00:23:43,869 --> 00:23:46,379 Speaker 2: hair sample for a much prolonged period of time. So 500 00:23:46,390 --> 00:23:49,149 Speaker 2: if you perhaps, you know, use cannabis six weeks ago 501 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,899 Speaker 2: and you've been called out by the enforcement agency and 502 00:23:51,910 --> 00:23:53,949 Speaker 2: you get a hair sample for you, there might still 503 00:23:53,959 --> 00:23:55,909 Speaker 2: be a chance that you, you will be tested positive 504 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,250 Speaker 2: for cannabis use. So it does stay in your system 505 00:23:58,260 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: quite a bit. 506 00:23:59,180 --> 00:24:03,150 Speaker 2: We've answered quite a few different areas, Kim, have we 507 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,438 Speaker 2: been able to convince you in any way that perhaps 508 00:24:05,449 --> 00:24:08,218 Speaker 2: cannabis is something that we should not even be thinking 509 00:24:08,229 --> 00:24:10,579 Speaker 2: of trying. What will convince you because we know the 510 00:24:10,589 --> 00:24:13,229 Speaker 2: current approach we take of fire and brims storm saying no, 511 00:24:13,239 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: it's bad for you does not seem to really work. 512 00:24:15,369 --> 00:24:18,030 Speaker 2: What will convince you to think otherwise. Actually, when Dr 513 00:24:18,189 --> 00:24:21,670 Speaker 2: Melvin brought up the whole addiction thing and how it 514 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,770 Speaker 2: affects your brain 515 00:24:22,989 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: I actually didn't realize that it could be so addictive 516 00:24:26,569 --> 00:24:30,510 Speaker 2: in that sense. So kind of convinced over there as 517 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,790 Speaker 2: for like the zero tolerance policy that Singapore has, I 518 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,329 Speaker 2: think a lot of people are still kind of on 519 00:24:35,339 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 2: the fence about that because I think they would rather 520 00:24:37,930 --> 00:24:41,839 Speaker 2: be educated for those that are curious, they rather be 521 00:24:41,849 --> 00:24:45,569 Speaker 2: educated of what exactly is the experience like. And maybe 522 00:24:45,579 --> 00:24:46,380 Speaker 2: if we talk more open 523 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,198 Speaker 2: about it rather than like, don't do it or you 524 00:24:49,209 --> 00:24:53,180 Speaker 2: go to jail. And secondly, the people that already have 525 00:24:53,189 --> 00:24:57,430 Speaker 2: personal issues in their life to maybe get the support, 526 00:24:57,439 --> 00:25:00,129 Speaker 2: they need to deal with their problems so that they 527 00:25:00,140 --> 00:25:04,839 Speaker 2: don't have to find ways to numb their pain with substances. 528 00:25:04,939 --> 00:25:08,810 Speaker 2: I agree that the message should not be purely deterrent 529 00:25:08,819 --> 00:25:09,910 Speaker 2: and top down. 530 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 2: So Nakata takes a very nuanced approach to it. Um 531 00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:16,188 Speaker 2: As you said, there's three reasons why young people experiment 532 00:25:16,199 --> 00:25:19,780 Speaker 2: with drugs, curiosity and based on misinformation. So a lot 533 00:25:19,790 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 2: of it is about education that it is more harmful 534 00:25:22,890 --> 00:25:26,189 Speaker 2: than you might think for people who are trying to escape. 535 00:25:26,199 --> 00:25:28,219 Speaker 2: There are a lot of things that we can do, 536 00:25:28,229 --> 00:25:30,430 Speaker 2: you know, engage them, connect with them and get them 537 00:25:30,439 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 2: to learn better coping mechanisms and stuff like that for 538 00:25:33,969 --> 00:25:37,949 Speaker 2: gang and peer influences, intervening and providing social support and 539 00:25:37,959 --> 00:25:38,930 Speaker 2: all that is important. 540 00:25:39,239 --> 00:25:43,209 Speaker 2: But on the zero tolerance policy, I would agree that 541 00:25:43,219 --> 00:25:46,390 Speaker 2: we should not move away from that because to me 542 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,589 Speaker 2: it's still a roll of the dice and the ratio 543 00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:50,500 Speaker 2: can be one out of 10 or one out of 544 00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:54,030 Speaker 2: 20 but there's still one life loss. And I don't 545 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,089 Speaker 2: think we should take the risk of allowing that because 546 00:25:57,099 --> 00:25:59,188 Speaker 2: it might be your child, it might be your family. 547 00:25:59,469 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 2: And even though it's that maybe 1% chance it's still 1% 548 00:26:02,449 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: too many. Thank you all for coming, sharing your insights 549 00:26:05,050 --> 00:26:06,739 Speaker 2: on this. You know, we know it's a tough topic 550 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:08,938 Speaker 2: but good insights. And I mean, I think we realize 551 00:26:08,949 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: that it's not just about saying no, you shouldn't do 552 00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:15,179 Speaker 2: it but helping people understand why and understanding like, yeah, 553 00:26:15,189 --> 00:26:16,949 Speaker 2: how it messes with your brain. I mean, I didn't 554 00:26:16,959 --> 00:26:19,250 Speaker 2: realize that too until we did research for the show. 555 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,839 Speaker 2: So our strict laws in Singapore are there to help 556 00:26:21,849 --> 00:26:24,060 Speaker 2: keep us safe. But we know that all the laws 557 00:26:24,069 --> 00:26:26,349 Speaker 2: in the world can't keep you safe. If you really 558 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,380 Speaker 2: want to do something, we'll find a way around it 559 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,379 Speaker 2: and it's also impossible to stop the kind of information 560 00:26:31,390 --> 00:26:33,729 Speaker 2: flow that we have happening online. And it's sometimes hard 561 00:26:33,739 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 2: for people to decipher what is fact and what may 562 00:26:36,729 --> 00:26:39,250 Speaker 2: not be a bit of that gray area. So I 563 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:40,930 Speaker 2: think it also means being willing to have an open 564 00:26:40,939 --> 00:26:43,609 Speaker 2: and frank discussion like what we did today. So thank 565 00:26:43,619 --> 00:26:46,430 Speaker 2: you all for coming and sharing your insights on this 566 00:26:46,609 --> 00:26:48,500 Speaker 2: as a parent I got to say that. Yeah, any 567 00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:50,380 Speaker 2: time I hear about this, I'm a bit worried, but 568 00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:52,050 Speaker 2: I think I want to have that conversation with my 569 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:54,670 Speaker 2: kids too so that they don't not do it just 570 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 2: because they are afraid of getting a scolding from me 571 00:26:56,729 --> 00:26:58,429 Speaker 2: for instance. But to truly understand 572 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,729 Speaker 2: the consequences that could come from doing something like drugs. 573 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:05,380 Speaker 2: On that note. Thank you all for joining us today. 574 00:27:05,390 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: This has been heart of the matter. The team behind 575 00:27:08,770 --> 00:27:13,349 Speaker 2: this podcast is Jacqueline Chan Grillo, Joanne Chan Tiffany Ang 576 00:27:13,869 --> 00:27:17,209 Speaker 2: and Christina Robert and I'm Steven signing off.