WEBVTT - How to avoid turning your dream home renovation into a financial nightmare 0:00:03.369 --> 0:00:05.710 You're listening to AC N A podcast, 0:00:08.500 --> 0:00:12.130 getting the keys to your new home. It's a significant 0:00:12.140 --> 0:00:15.420 and exciting milestone, isn't it? It's the first step to 0:00:15.430 --> 0:00:18.600 building your dream home apart from shopping for it. Of course, 0:00:18.860 --> 0:00:23.149 now you start pinning visual inos on your virtual vision board. 0:00:23.219 --> 0:00:26.398 And before you know it, your wish list is inflating 0:00:26.409 --> 0:00:29.430 your budget and then you move on to the next 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.040 task of finding a good contractor or interior designer. 0:00:33.500 --> 0:00:36.340 It's a process that's all too familiar to me. I've 0:00:36.348 --> 0:00:39.949 done that many times. I'm Andrea Heng. This is the 0:00:39.959 --> 0:00:42.979 Money talks podcast. I'm about to get you some real 0:00:43.049 --> 0:00:46.669 life solid advice on how you need to manage your 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.049 renovation budget so that you don't have to go through 0:00:49.060 --> 0:00:50.130 what I went through. 0:00:50.598 --> 0:00:53.220 And that advice is going to come from my guest today, 0:00:53.229 --> 0:00:56.979 Daniel Lim. He's the co-founder of Canvas. It's an online 0:00:56.990 --> 0:01:00.799 renovation platform and that's where homeowners like you can search 0:01:00.810 --> 0:01:04.610 for reliable interior design firms here in Singapore. Welcome to 0:01:04.620 --> 0:01:07.180 the podcast, Daniel. Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:07.190 --> 0:01:10.080 So first we want to talk about setting the budget, right. 0:01:10.089 --> 0:01:14.419 This starts to happen when we enter the new house, 0:01:14.565 --> 0:01:17.235 we really do a deep inspection of the house and 0:01:17.245 --> 0:01:20.025 then some of the floors get revealed, the real condition 0:01:20.035 --> 0:01:22.864 of the unit gets revealed, right? So how do I 0:01:22.875 --> 0:01:26.385 work with my budget? How much fat um should I 0:01:26.394 --> 0:01:30.004 give to this budget? Because the renovation costs do tend 0:01:30.014 --> 0:01:33.614 to add up when we start seeing all these other 0:01:33.625 --> 0:01:36.595 things inside the house that reveal themselves. Correct? Yeah. No, 0:01:36.605 --> 0:01:38.425 I think that's a very valid question. And I think, 0:01:38.739 --> 0:01:40.949 ah, your introduction, you mentioned that you start looking at 0:01:41.129 --> 0:01:43.279 info images and all that and that's the fun part. Yeah. 0:01:43.449 --> 0:01:45.870 And then, yeah, and then you come on to the 0:01:45.879 --> 0:01:47.989 dollars and cents and then that's, you know, the part 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.110 that obviously is tricky because most people have an idea 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.919 in mind. You know, you want to spend 20 30,000, 40,000. 0:01:54.180 --> 0:01:56.529 But then when you inspect the house, you have a 0:01:56.540 --> 0:01:58.400 look and then some of those ideas that you have 0:01:58.410 --> 0:02:00.150 seen on those vision boards and you want to translate 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.870 them into real life and then your contractor or designer 0:02:02.879 --> 0:02:04.660 tells you, hey, you know, I think you need a bit, 0:02:04.669 --> 0:02:06.480 a bit more in order to realize what you want 0:02:06.489 --> 0:02:09.600 and then your dream goes right? Or you say, ok, 0:02:09.610 --> 0:02:11.678 I'm gonna stretch a little bit and then get what 0:02:11.690 --> 0:02:12.978 I want. So. Right. So I think, I think, I 0:02:12.990 --> 0:02:16.350 think that's challenging and it's always a tussle with great design. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:18.829 Having everything that you want as well as keeping it 0:02:18.839 --> 0:02:21.799 practical functional within budget. Right? I would think the first 0:02:21.809 --> 0:02:23.330 step you can take is really 0:02:23.630 --> 0:02:27.130 doing research online. You can just search renovation calculator, Singapore, 0:02:27.229 --> 0:02:29.758 you might find a few, you can just input your, 0:02:29.770 --> 0:02:32.429 your size of your apartment or whether you are looking 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.720 to do a full scale renovation with hacking and all 0:02:35.729 --> 0:02:38.130 the works or is it more just a smaller scale renovation? 0:02:38.419 --> 0:02:40.470 And with that after 57 minutes, you will get a 0:02:40.479 --> 0:02:44.080 quite a comprehensive list of, you know, line items of 0:02:44.089 --> 0:02:45.579 what you can budget for your innovation and give you 0:02:45.589 --> 0:02:47.478 at least an estimate in terms of what you can 0:02:47.490 --> 0:02:49.259 look at. And then after that, I would still say 0:02:49.270 --> 0:02:54.589 even with that budget always just cater for, for surprises 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.660 in terms of delays or maybe even variations because you 0:02:57.669 --> 0:02:59.860 might think you want something and then down the line 0:02:59.869 --> 0:03:02.160 you realize. Oh, ok. Actually I want to add something 0:03:02.169 --> 0:03:04.820 else you want to change. I want to or different 0:03:04.830 --> 0:03:07.100 material that maybe better suits your lifestyle, right? So all 0:03:07.110 --> 0:03:08.279 those come into play 0:03:08.580 --> 0:03:11.240 um especially more so for first time renovators where you know, 0:03:11.250 --> 0:03:13.339 it's their first time. And then along the way in 0:03:13.350 --> 0:03:14.940 that process of the 3 to 4 months when they 0:03:14.949 --> 0:03:17.720 are designing and going through the renovation, they realize, ok, 0:03:17.729 --> 0:03:19.699 I want something a little different so that might add 0:03:19.710 --> 0:03:22.580 to the cost. So I always just give a ballpark 0:03:22.589 --> 0:03:25.449 of a 20 to 30% buffer. Ok. So if you 0:03:25.460 --> 0:03:26.860 know you had in mind like 0:03:27.119 --> 0:03:30.770 3000, just make sure you have 6065 just to be 0:03:30.779 --> 0:03:33.418 very comfortable and safe so that you don't run into 0:03:33.429 --> 0:03:36.779 any issues. So I'm told that the Renault budget should 0:03:36.789 --> 0:03:40.139 be in proportion to the size or even the price 0:03:40.149 --> 0:03:42.639 of the house. This is something that I picked up 0:03:42.649 --> 0:03:45.539 on a panel that I hosted recently. 0:03:45.860 --> 0:03:48.380 But some home buyers see the home as you know, 0:03:48.389 --> 0:03:51.559 a long term investment. They're thinking, ok, it's a long 0:03:51.570 --> 0:03:54.369 term investment. I'm going to stay here till I retire. 0:03:54.589 --> 0:03:59.029 Why not just spend the extra cash on better quality fittings, 0:03:59.039 --> 0:04:03.089 et cetera? But the question becomes how much is too much, right? 0:04:03.179 --> 0:04:05.880 So you're saying 20 to 30% on top of the 0:04:05.889 --> 0:04:07.990 original budget you have in mind just to give some 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.839 buffers what's above and beyond. That's considered too much though. 0:04:11.860 --> 0:04:14.800 I think it's really to each his own, right? Because 0:04:14.809 --> 0:04:17.159 I think some people really look at it as maybe 0:04:17.170 --> 0:04:19.549 a forever home. They want to stay there 1520 30 0:04:19.559 --> 0:04:20.428 years even. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.618 And they are willing to invest in making sure they 0:04:23.630 --> 0:04:26.179 get the best materials, the best finishing and all that. 0:04:26.190 --> 0:04:27.700 But of course, if you are very clear that it's 0:04:27.709 --> 0:04:29.609 for another purpose, maybe, you know, you're going to sell 0:04:29.619 --> 0:04:32.299 at the mop in five years, then would you really 0:04:32.309 --> 0:04:34.808 want to invest you know, 100 200,000 into that BT 0:04:34.820 --> 0:04:36.040 O and then sell it within five years. So I 0:04:36.049 --> 0:04:38.700 think you just got to weigh what your plans for 0:04:38.709 --> 0:04:40.290 the house are, is it going to be really long 0:04:40.299 --> 0:04:42.350 term stay or is it going to be 357 years 0:04:42.359 --> 0:04:44.350 and then you're gonna, you're gonna upgrade or you're going 0:04:44.359 --> 0:04:46.140 to change your home? So I think that's 11 factor 0:04:46.149 --> 0:04:46.700 to consider 0:04:46.910 --> 0:04:48.570 the second one that you, I think rightly pointed out 0:04:48.579 --> 0:04:52.209 is the size. I wouldn't go too much with the 0:04:52.220 --> 0:04:54.269 price of the house. So to give you an example, 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.459 if you buy a new condo, it might be highly priced, 0:04:57.470 --> 0:04:59.570 but it really comes furnished with quite a bit of 0:04:59.579 --> 0:05:02.609 the carpentry and all that is in the toilet already in. 0:05:02.890 --> 0:05:05.200 So most people may not want to then invest in 0:05:05.209 --> 0:05:07.519 a full scale renovation, right. So they just make sure 0:05:07.529 --> 0:05:10.750 that they get good furnishing. Maybe they would add on 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.089 more carpentry, for example, they need more storage, maybe they'll 0:05:13.100 --> 0:05:15.079 do the kitchen a little bit better, but they wouldn't 0:05:15.089 --> 0:05:17.709 tend to go full scale into a new condo. Yeah. So, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.808 whereas compared to a resale, maybe BT might cost less 0:05:20.820 --> 0:05:21.910 than a new condo, but 0:05:22.510 --> 0:05:25.630 it's all right. 20 years, 30 years, everything is falling apart. 0:05:25.790 --> 0:05:28.219 You want to invest, then you might spend even more 0:05:28.230 --> 0:05:30.130 into that. So I think it's more the newness of 0:05:30.140 --> 0:05:33.890 the property, your life stage. What you're planning to do 0:05:33.899 --> 0:05:35.519 with the home. And then last but not least just 0:05:35.529 --> 0:05:37.250 your own personal budget, right? Keeping in mind what you 0:05:37.260 --> 0:05:40.230 can afford and then doing the best within that 0:05:40.334 --> 0:05:42.325 budget that you have with that buffer that I mentioned 0:05:42.334 --> 0:05:45.484 budgeting for long term versus short term stay. I'm also 0:05:45.494 --> 0:05:48.544 thinking about the ones that are renovating to rent out 0:05:48.553 --> 0:05:51.625 the flat, right? So that's a small pocket of people 0:05:51.635 --> 0:05:56.174 who would do that. What would be a reasonable question 0:05:56.184 --> 0:05:59.494 to ask ourselves in terms of budget if we know 0:05:59.505 --> 0:06:01.445 that we're going to buy this unit where it's whether 0:06:01.454 --> 0:06:03.575 it's a condo or a an H DB flat to 0:06:03.584 --> 0:06:04.595 rent out later on, 0:06:05.670 --> 0:06:09.809 I think for that particular case, then it's an investment, right? 0:06:09.820 --> 0:06:12.269 So clearly, I think dollars and cents plays probably a 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.040 bigger factor than maybe the design aesthetic of the place. 0:06:15.329 --> 0:06:20.010 So I think furnishing it appropriately make it nice with 0:06:20.019 --> 0:06:24.029 decent quality materials. Just keeping in mind that you would 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.989 have to rent it out to get maybe a specific 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:27.730 yield that you're looking for, right. So just to give 0:06:27.738 --> 0:06:30.200 you an example, maybe a BT O forum flat currently 0:06:30.209 --> 0:06:32.690 costs about 45 to 50,000 on average based on the 0:06:32.700 --> 0:06:34.640 data that we have on canvas. So, 0:06:35.230 --> 0:06:37.738 but those are for people that are staying in the place, right? 0:06:37.750 --> 0:06:40.700 Maybe looking at that budget and seeing if you can 0:06:40.709 --> 0:06:44.440 save on that scale it down a little bit. So 0:06:44.450 --> 0:06:47.459 that it makes your investment property more worthwhile. Yeah, that 0:06:47.470 --> 0:06:49.959 makes sense. That makes sense. So once we've decided on 0:06:49.970 --> 0:06:52.850 a budget, what's the first thing that we should be 0:06:52.859 --> 0:06:56.399 spending on? So for my mom, any new house, first 0:06:56.410 --> 0:06:57.368 thing to go, toilets? 0:06:57.505 --> 0:07:00.024 Ok. Second is kitchen and then it goes on and 0:07:00.035 --> 0:07:03.924 on in order of priority. But in terms of financial sense, 0:07:04.355 --> 0:07:07.804 what should be the first thing that we should work on? 0:07:07.815 --> 0:07:09.964 So I guess before even realizing your dreams of your 0:07:09.975 --> 0:07:13.725 dream home or your dream property, maybe the first question 0:07:13.734 --> 0:07:15.265 you have to answer is do you go the contractor 0:07:15.274 --> 0:07:17.915 route or do you go to the interior designer route? Exactly. Right. Yeah. 0:07:17.924 --> 0:07:19.565 So which one do you go for? Right. 0:07:19.869 --> 0:07:23.869 Generally, if you prefer not to have the project manage 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.059 the whole renovation, and you also want to have someone 0:07:27.070 --> 0:07:29.769 who has experience, to advise you on that renovation process 0:07:29.779 --> 0:07:32.010 and also to give you some maybe design input on 0:07:32.019 --> 0:07:34.250 what can or cannot be done. That group of people 0:07:34.260 --> 0:07:36.190 would go with the inter designer route, right? And then 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.709 for those that are willing to project, manage their own renovation, 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:41.209 they are willing to source some materials and all that 0:07:41.220 --> 0:07:43.049 and they just need someone to just get the work done, 0:07:43.059 --> 0:07:44.880 you know, you can go to the contractor route. So again, 0:07:44.890 --> 0:07:48.190 that already would tell a difference in cost between the 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:49.489 two options. So I think that's one. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:51.769 And then if we drill down a bit further into 0:07:51.779 --> 0:07:53.510 what makes sense. Then again, I think it really depends 0:07:53.519 --> 0:07:56.339 on personal preference. So I'll give you an example. I 0:07:56.390 --> 0:08:00.239 generally do not cook as much kitchens to me may 0:08:00.250 --> 0:08:02.260 not be the number one priority in terms of where 0:08:02.269 --> 0:08:04.290 I want to spend my budget. Yeah, for me, I 0:08:04.299 --> 0:08:05.890 think it was a lot on 0:08:06.579 --> 0:08:09.570 carpentry because I didn't like to have things strewn around 0:08:09.579 --> 0:08:12.140 the house. So I think, I guess like neatness and 0:08:12.149 --> 0:08:13.359 all that was a bit more important to me. So 0:08:13.369 --> 0:08:15.730 I built a lot of carpentry which would until higher 0:08:15.739 --> 0:08:18.079 costs as compared to maybe loose furnishing and you know, 0:08:18.089 --> 0:08:19.750 if you buy a cupboard, for example. Yeah. So I 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.609 think that was what I decided to spend on whereas 0:08:22.619 --> 0:08:25.109 your mom might say, ok, toilets, kitchen. Yeah, 0:08:26.209 --> 0:08:29.260 although I would say that that is generally what people work. Yeah, 0:08:29.269 --> 0:08:31.839 I mean toilets, understandable, you know why? But yeah, I 0:08:31.850 --> 0:08:35.280 think you brought up a really good point, understanding your priorities, 0:08:35.289 --> 0:08:37.358 how you're going to use the house because you are 0:08:37.369 --> 0:08:39.750 living in it. You're not just sitting there, it's how 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.289 you're using it. Right. How much of a renovation budget 0:08:43.299 --> 0:08:47.010 should actually include your loose items, the furniture, the appliances, 0:08:47.020 --> 0:08:48.760 because I've always been confused about this. 0:08:49.065 --> 0:08:52.106 When you say renovation budget in my mind, it's just 0:08:52.116 --> 0:08:56.824 the renovation. You're right. Right. Exactly. So should it include 0:08:56.835 --> 0:08:58.944 the furniture, the appliances and all that? Right. So I 0:08:58.955 --> 0:09:01.676 think that the numbers or figures I gave earlier was 0:09:01.684 --> 0:09:06.585 just for the pure renovation, the work, the work, the construction, 0:09:06.596 --> 0:09:08.805 your ma your hacking out that it does not include 0:09:08.815 --> 0:09:11.546 the loose finishing all your appliances. That's right. Correct. 0:09:11.631 --> 0:09:13.721 I think that's also what you would get from contractors 0:09:13.731 --> 0:09:16.080 or interior designers, you work with whatever that they could, 0:09:16.151 --> 0:09:19.661 would always not include appliances and loose furnishing. So it's 0:09:19.671 --> 0:09:22.731 important to then set aside another budget for that typically 0:09:22.742 --> 0:09:25.651 about 30% of your renovation budget. So assuming you go 0:09:25.660 --> 0:09:28.151 with like about 60,000, right? So maybe 30% will be 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.471 20,000 additional for the appliances in terms of furnishing and all. 0:09:32.572 --> 0:09:34.111 And let me tell you the bigger the house, 0:09:34.599 --> 0:09:36.669 the more stuff you need, the more stuff you think 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.968 you need, the more you think you need more you need, 0:09:39.979 --> 0:09:43.539 then you actually need, I I didn't really need two 0:09:43.549 --> 0:09:46.409 of those just because I have two toilets. You talked 0:09:46.419 --> 0:09:50.099 a little bit earlier about surprise expenses making space for that. 0:09:50.289 --> 0:09:53.479 You're in the midst of renovating your own home now. Congratulations, 0:09:53.489 --> 0:09:55.460 by the way. Thank you so much. So what were 0:09:55.469 --> 0:10:00.049 some of the surprise expenses that you personally are encountering 0:10:00.059 --> 0:10:00.570 right now? 0:10:01.070 --> 0:10:03.839 I think sometimes people underestimate the need for electrical points. 0:10:03.969 --> 0:10:05.919 So you realize. Oh, ok. And then you realize, oh 0:10:05.929 --> 0:10:08.309 I need more. So I think that's one cause that 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.848 caught me a little bit. Ok, I need more electrical points. 0:10:10.859 --> 0:10:13.909 Carpentry was one as well. Yeah, so the more carpentry 0:10:13.919 --> 0:10:16.150 I said ok, I need storage here. I need storage here. 0:10:16.159 --> 0:10:18.830 So I think those are those would be the kind 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:19.559 of built 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.479 or renovation, surprise cost that might come in or yeah, 0:10:23.489 --> 0:10:24.580 just adding a new feature. 0:10:25.039 --> 0:10:28.299 Yeah, for me, that was doorknobs because I think it 0:10:28.309 --> 0:10:32.150 was just me and my fantasy and doorknobs were a 0:10:32.159 --> 0:10:35.239 big thing. Like I think those little features that you 0:10:35.250 --> 0:10:37.340 want aesthetic features you wanted to get, but it does 0:10:37.349 --> 0:10:39.750 complete the look of the house, you know, small touches, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.799 sometimes you overlook them and I guess outside the renovation 0:10:42.809 --> 0:10:44.598 and of course, we don't hope it happens, but it 0:10:44.609 --> 0:10:48.710 does happen delays, right? So if there's a delay, then 0:10:49.150 --> 0:10:52.559 hopefully you already have your existing dwelling, but you're not renting. 0:10:52.703 --> 0:10:54.872 But if you are renting or you have already maybe 0:10:54.881 --> 0:10:57.242 sold your house and you were expecting the renovation to 0:10:57.252 --> 0:10:59.062 finish next month and you're going to move in next 0:10:59.072 --> 0:11:01.192 month and then there's a one month delay, then what happens? Right. 0:11:01.203 --> 0:11:03.881 And then scramble and all my favorite words again, buffer, 0:11:03.913 --> 0:11:05.572 I think you need to buffer. Yeah, you need to 0:11:05.583 --> 0:11:08.692 buffer that, that don't cut it too close because it 0:11:08.703 --> 0:11:12.263 causes a lot of unnecessary stress and it's buffer, not 0:11:12.273 --> 0:11:15.583 just on the renovation timeline, it's not just the cost, 0:11:15.593 --> 0:11:19.263 it's also your rental on the previous place or mortgage. 0:11:19.432 --> 0:11:20.223 It's also 0:11:20.306 --> 0:11:23.335 so your storage facility, if you use that's another month 0:11:23.346 --> 0:11:26.145 of delay, another month of fees, right. So yeah, I 0:11:26.155 --> 0:11:29.556 think these are really great surprise expenses that we need 0:11:29.565 --> 0:11:32.046 to consider. So now we want to talk about sticking 0:11:32.056 --> 0:11:34.685 with the budget. Some of us may want to head 0:11:34.695 --> 0:11:36.795 over to the bank for a renovation loan. What are 0:11:36.806 --> 0:11:40.416 the three most important aspects of our renovation loan that 0:11:40.426 --> 0:11:42.915 we have to pay attention to? So for the renovation 0:11:42.926 --> 0:11:45.036 loan is of course, it must be based on the invoice, right? 0:11:45.046 --> 0:11:47.026 So I think once you have an invoice from either 0:11:47.035 --> 0:11:47.845 contractor 0:11:48.309 --> 0:11:50.289 or interior designer, then you are able to apply for 0:11:50.299 --> 0:11:53.119 renovation loan. But a renovation loan is typically kept at 0:11:53.130 --> 0:11:55.679 a certain amount. And when you say invoice, we can 0:11:55.690 --> 0:11:59.260 also use the quotation from the contractor as well, right? 0:11:59.270 --> 0:12:03.380 Either one that actually shows a broad figure, so to speak, 0:12:03.390 --> 0:12:07.339 I've also heard of people doing renovation in phases and 0:12:07.349 --> 0:12:10.500 a lot of the times it is with the primary 0:12:10.510 --> 0:12:12.719 objective of saving on costs. 0:12:13.260 --> 0:12:16.689 So for example, this year, I'll do the kitchen and 0:12:16.700 --> 0:12:19.690 the toilets and then next year I'll maybe focus on 0:12:19.700 --> 0:12:25.169 hacking a wall. Is that necessarily a strategic financial move 0:12:25.179 --> 0:12:28.690 to renovate the house in phases like that? Or do 0:12:28.700 --> 0:12:31.690 you end up spending more ultimately financially? I think it 0:12:31.700 --> 0:12:34.169 makes sense just because in a way you're just cutting 0:12:34.179 --> 0:12:34.439 up 0:12:34.729 --> 0:12:38.450 the renovation costs into according to correct. So I think 0:12:38.460 --> 0:12:40.700 that's from that point of view, I think it's ok. 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.150 I guess you just have to weigh the cons of 0:12:44.159 --> 0:12:46.159 having to stay there, especially if you're not moving. I 0:12:46.169 --> 0:12:48.130 assume they will not move out because you want to say. So, 0:12:48.140 --> 0:12:50.770 I think the inconvenience that could come from the renovations 0:12:50.780 --> 0:12:53.618 happening while you're there, especially maybe if you have young kids, 0:12:53.630 --> 0:12:56.190 for example, then it might be a bit more tricky 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.439 in that sense. So I guess financially it might make 0:12:58.450 --> 0:12:58.988 sense to do that. 0:13:00.020 --> 0:13:00.760 Although 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.368 when I look at it from the contractors and new 0:13:03.380 --> 0:13:04.400 designers point of view 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.679 for them to allocate resources multiple times as compared to 0:13:10.690 --> 0:13:13.510 doing a full project, I guess their preference is quite clear, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.200 they rather do the entire project one shot and everything. 0:13:16.380 --> 0:13:18.130 But if you want to just cut it up like that, 0:13:18.140 --> 0:13:19.799 I'm not sure. But I think there might be a 0:13:19.809 --> 0:13:22.569 case where cost individually might add up to be more 0:13:22.580 --> 0:13:25.419 than if you were to compete. Everything bearing man. Also, 0:13:25.429 --> 0:13:28.979 I guess cost tends to go up. And after COVID, 0:13:28.989 --> 0:13:31.169 we saw a huge increase, but, you know, generally goes 0:13:31.179 --> 0:13:32.979 up as with everything. So there's inflation 0:13:33.369 --> 0:13:35.989 and you will see that most quotations given by these 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.189 contracting firms will only be valid for maybe six months. 0:13:39.500 --> 0:13:42.189 So that same cost will not be the same two 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:43.690 years later. So if you do a toilet today, you 0:13:43.700 --> 0:13:47.010 think it's, it's gonna be 5000 Tuesday, they could be 6005, right? 0:13:47.020 --> 0:13:49.520 So then again, yeah, you might not be saving in 0:13:49.530 --> 0:13:51.348 absolute dollar terms, but I guess you are cutting it 0:13:51.359 --> 0:13:54.099 up into more bite size amounts. Yeah, I think it's 0:13:54.109 --> 0:13:57.348 about manageability in that sense. So some people advise that 0:13:57.359 --> 0:13:59.599 you should take on a renovation loan. If you already 0:13:59.609 --> 0:14:02.189 have a more heavy mortgage to pay, 0:14:02.619 --> 0:14:06.000 you can always sell the house if you can't service 0:14:06.010 --> 0:14:09.640 your mortgage. But then what happens if you can't pay 0:14:09.650 --> 0:14:11.799 up the rental loan? That's a bit different, isn't it? 0:14:12.010 --> 0:14:15.890 Do you see the situation happening frequently? We only have 0:14:15.900 --> 0:14:18.190 our data on canvas to go by but we generally 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.869 do not see much people opting for renovation loans. Actually, not, 0:14:21.900 --> 0:14:24.289 not that high percentage. We have a little check box 0:14:24.299 --> 0:14:26.539 on our form that says, do you require renovation loan? 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.299 I think less than 20 or 15% check. Yes. So 0:14:30.309 --> 0:14:32.500 the rest just go through with. No. And I think 0:14:32.510 --> 0:14:34.950 it's just because I guess in the home ownership journey, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.739 most people know that. Ok, if I buy a BT 0:14:36.750 --> 0:14:39.809 which are majority of our homeowners, I need X dollars 0:14:39.820 --> 0:14:41.609 to save for my renovation. And I think they have 0:14:41.619 --> 0:14:43.890 that maybe planned out. All right. So now let's talk 0:14:43.900 --> 0:14:45.650 about the renovation itself. Ok, 0:14:46.270 --> 0:14:50.809 I'm sure you as much as I have heard of 0:14:50.820 --> 0:14:58.849 many nightmare stories and experiences involving contractors, sometimes more bad 0:14:58.859 --> 0:15:02.159 than good. Then there are the solo operators versus the 0:15:02.169 --> 0:15:05.250 ID agencies, the bigger companies, right? The boutique agencies and 0:15:05.260 --> 0:15:08.049 all that kind of stuff. The boutique firms where there's 0:15:08.059 --> 0:15:11.059 not really a contract but a quotation. I've not really 0:15:11.070 --> 0:15:13.570 seen a contract. So, if do you think, then 0:15:13.770 --> 0:15:16.710 we should be asking for one, a contract as opposed 0:15:16.719 --> 0:15:19.729 to just the quotation? So, yeah, I think you should know. 0:15:20.010 --> 0:15:23.099 I said, I guess the interior design contracting industry in 0:15:23.109 --> 0:15:26.619 general in Singapore is quite loosely regulated. So I think 0:15:26.630 --> 0:15:28.570 consumers just have to be very aware, they really have 0:15:28.580 --> 0:15:29.989 to do their own research. And I think that's why 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.320 there are multiple platforms available in Singapore to try to 0:15:32.330 --> 0:15:35.460 help guide them in that decision. Um You know, showcasing 0:15:35.469 --> 0:15:38.219 maybe more trusted firms making sure that, you know, we 0:15:38.229 --> 0:15:40.229 have done the due diligence as a platform and then 0:15:40.239 --> 0:15:41.349 offering it to the consumer. 0:15:41.700 --> 0:15:44.690 But yes, the due diligence or the owners is still 0:15:44.700 --> 0:15:46.729 on the consumer to make that decision finally at the 0:15:46.739 --> 0:15:48.750 end of the day. And I would say that, yeah, 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.260 way between a very small firm that has maybe not 0:15:52.270 --> 0:15:54.830 much track record 12 months, they just incorporated and then 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.210 they are out here doing this business because again, there's 0:15:57.219 --> 0:16:00.539 no regulations, there's no certification needed to be a designer 0:16:00.549 --> 0:16:01.150 or contractor. 0:16:01.299 --> 0:16:03.700 So that is something that they are we all going 0:16:03.710 --> 0:16:05.909 for more maybe established firm that has been in operation 0:16:05.919 --> 0:16:08.489 for 1520 years. And then maybe there's a bit more 0:16:08.650 --> 0:16:10.919 of a trust factor that oversight and I think maybe 0:16:10.929 --> 0:16:12.809 you might think, OK, at least they have been in 0:16:12.820 --> 0:16:15.929 operations for X number of years. And then I think 0:16:15.940 --> 0:16:19.840 your question about the quotation having or do you need 0:16:19.849 --> 0:16:22.929 a separate contract? I think most quotations I've seen from 0:16:22.940 --> 0:16:24.010 interior designers. At least 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.859 they would have a quite a comprehensive list of T 0:16:26.869 --> 0:16:28.520 and CS. So I don't think they need a separate 0:16:28.530 --> 0:16:31.169 contract because I think it's quite comprehensive and that bind, 0:16:31.179 --> 0:16:33.059 that is binding, that is binding because I think it's 0:16:33.070 --> 0:16:34.840 signed both parties and then I think the terms and 0:16:34.849 --> 0:16:38.869 conditions would be quite comprehensive. So I think in those situations, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.909 it would probably be ok if it's just a single 0:16:40.919 --> 0:16:44.169 piece of paper and there's no TNC and it's just 0:16:44.179 --> 0:16:47.820 lump sum payments where, you know, carpentry 50,000, that's like 0:16:47.890 --> 0:16:50.049 sending me back, correct. So I think that's important to 0:16:50.059 --> 0:16:50.469 look at 0:16:50.729 --> 0:16:53.429 and the other very important thing with regards to terms 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.690 and conditions would be the payment terms. I think that's 0:16:55.700 --> 0:16:59.239 what sometimes people do not look at. Ok. Budget is great. 0:16:59.250 --> 0:17:01.440 It is within my budget. I like this into design 0:17:01.450 --> 0:17:03.710 and design is great. But what about the payment terms? 0:17:03.719 --> 0:17:05.349 I will be very cautious if the 0:17:05.708 --> 0:17:08.958 interior designer contractor tells me to pay 50 percent upfront. 0:17:08.968 --> 0:17:12.217 Like today, I'll be cautious or even 30 40% would 0:17:12.229 --> 0:17:15.467 be deemed high. 30% is considered high. Yes, upfront. Like 0:17:15.479 --> 0:17:18.348 just to secure the contract, we normally recommend probably not 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.548 more than 20% just to secure the contract. Sure. Sure. Yeah. 0:17:20.588 --> 0:17:24.448 So I think anything more would be, I'll be very cautious. 0:17:25.854 --> 0:17:28.124 Ok. I'm good that we, we were able to put 0:17:28.134 --> 0:17:30.234 the number on it because a lot of us are 0:17:30.244 --> 0:17:33.293 never really sure. And most of us renovate maybe once, twice. 0:17:33.303 --> 0:17:35.563 That's it in our lifetime. Anything else that we need 0:17:35.573 --> 0:17:37.663 to look out for in the T and CS, outside 0:17:37.673 --> 0:17:40.193 of the payment terms? I think some people also look 0:17:40.203 --> 0:17:43.494 at rectiv rectification and defects like what happens at the 0:17:43.504 --> 0:17:46.792 end of it. So I think some of the better 0:17:46.803 --> 0:17:49.763 contract I've seen would be the last maybe 5% payments 0:17:49.773 --> 0:17:52.223 with held until the rectifications are done. So I think 0:17:52.234 --> 0:17:54.404 something like that would be, would be good for the consumer. 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.619 I think project timeline, if there are delays, anything like 0:17:57.630 --> 0:18:01.949 that should be indicated in the timeline for sure. Although 0:18:01.959 --> 0:18:07.050 I'm not sure how robust in terms of what happens 0:18:07.060 --> 0:18:10.000 if the timeline is missed. So maybe that could be 0:18:10.010 --> 0:18:12.650 improved a midway or even close to the finish line. 0:18:12.819 --> 0:18:15.780 We discover things aren't up to scratch, they're not meeting 0:18:15.790 --> 0:18:18.989