1 00:00:00,079 --> 00:00:02,339 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast? 2 00:00:03,859 --> 00:00:07,630 Speaker 1: Hello, it's Me, Grace. Yo, your host for this special series. 3 00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:11,890 Speaker 1: Why it differently where we discuss neurodiversity in the office? 4 00:00:12,050 --> 00:00:15,109 Speaker 1: Fun fact, there is a meme where someone with a 5 00:00:15,119 --> 00:00:18,270 Speaker 1: DH D shares a random bit of trivia and another 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,509 Speaker 1: person asks how they even have that knowledge. And then 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,059 Speaker 1: the A DH D person says, oh, they have an 8 00:00:24,069 --> 00:00:28,110 Speaker 1: internet connection and poor regulation skills, which is a perfect 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,879 Speaker 1: description of my last two years. Having found out that 10 00:00:30,889 --> 00:00:31,850 Speaker 1: I have a DH D. 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,168 Speaker 1: Basically, any time I discover something new that I'm fascinated by, 12 00:00:36,180 --> 00:00:39,439 Speaker 1: I just go all in moderation is not my forte. 13 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,409 Speaker 1: So over the last two years, I've dived down one 14 00:00:42,418 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: rabbit hole after another, learning about various aspects of neurodiversity 15 00:00:46,689 --> 00:00:49,369 Speaker 1: as a whole, including autism and dyslexia. 16 00:00:49,900 --> 00:00:51,848 Speaker 1: And I thought I knew all there was to know 17 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 1: until I met my guest for today, Chan Puan has 18 00:00:55,330 --> 00:00:58,709 Speaker 1: dyslexia and a DH D. And while I'm familiar with 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,220 Speaker 1: each of those neurological differences, I've not met anyone with both. 20 00:01:03,229 --> 00:01:05,429 Speaker 1: At least not that I know of. Not only was 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,139 Speaker 1: I curious about how her dyslexia and a dh D 22 00:01:08,150 --> 00:01:10,050 Speaker 1: traits affect her. At the same time, 23 00:01:10,599 --> 00:01:12,910 Speaker 1: I think I was more fascinated by the fact that 24 00:01:12,919 --> 00:01:15,470 Speaker 1: she holds a job with a heavy amount of reading 25 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,660 Speaker 1: and writing. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me 26 00:01:18,669 --> 00:01:21,139 Speaker 1: here today. Grace. Really happy for the chance to have 27 00:01:21,150 --> 00:01:23,669 Speaker 1: a conversation like this with people like yourself who care 28 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,690 Speaker 1: so much about raising awareness for neurodiversity. I almost feel 29 00:01:26,699 --> 00:01:29,110 Speaker 1: like people with a DH D have this like radar 30 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,790 Speaker 1: where we can just spot and click with another A 31 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,410 Speaker 1: DH D right away. Don't you think? I think so too. 32 00:01:34,419 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: But the thing is when we first met, you did 33 00:01:36,769 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: mention that I didn't look like I have a DH 34 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:39,729 Speaker 1: D 35 00:01:41,889 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: you manage to keep your fidgets really well. Yeah. So 36 00:01:46,209 --> 00:01:49,089 Speaker 1: the thing is exactly fidgeting and hyperactivity. I think that's 37 00:01:49,099 --> 00:01:49,879 Speaker 1: maybe a 38 00:01:50,290 --> 00:01:53,989 Speaker 1: conventional stereotype of a DH D, maybe my fidgeting and 39 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,599 Speaker 1: hyperactivity is all internalized. But let's get to you first, 40 00:01:57,610 --> 00:02:00,239 Speaker 1: tell me what it is that you do at work. 41 00:02:00,250 --> 00:02:04,260 Speaker 1: I'm an A I ethicist for MS D and in 42 00:02:04,269 --> 00:02:08,059 Speaker 1: my role, I focus on embedding ethical and responsible A 43 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:11,460 Speaker 1: I principles and practices into policies and 44 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: processes and technology. So I would assume that there is 45 00:02:14,649 --> 00:02:17,698 Speaker 1: a lot of meeting with, say stakeholders, a lot of 46 00:02:17,710 --> 00:02:21,149 Speaker 1: reading and writing involved. Am I correct to assume that? Oh, yeah, 47 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,619 Speaker 1: for sure. I would say like maybe 90% of my 48 00:02:23,630 --> 00:02:27,978 Speaker 1: work is reading and writing. Pardon? My ignorance. But this 49 00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:31,579 Speaker 1: next question is based off an assumption, I'm not sure 50 00:02:31,589 --> 00:02:34,888 Speaker 1: if it's a misconception, but a job with a lot 51 00:02:34,899 --> 00:02:38,970 Speaker 1: of reading and writing doesn't sound very suitable for someone 52 00:02:38,979 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: with dyslexia 53 00:02:40,820 --> 00:02:43,509 Speaker 1: actually. Ok. Well, I guess I can't speak for all dyslexics, 54 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,948 Speaker 1: but speaking for at least myself. Ok, to be completely honest, like, 55 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: maybe many years ago, I wouldn't have thought that I 56 00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:52,509 Speaker 1: would have taken on a role that requires much large 57 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,350 Speaker 1: portion of reading and writing, especially like writing, communications, writing 58 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,008 Speaker 1: policy documents, et cetera. But I think for me, the 59 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:02,500 Speaker 1: most important thing was what I do and what the 60 00:03:02,508 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: role is about. It's about making sure A I is 61 00:03:05,580 --> 00:03:09,179 Speaker 1: responsible and ethical and to get people to understand that 62 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:11,789 Speaker 1: technology needs to be inclusive and that society needs to 63 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,940 Speaker 1: be inclusive. We have to make the technology in society 64 00:03:14,949 --> 00:03:16,559 Speaker 1: that way. We have to get people to understand why 65 00:03:16,570 --> 00:03:19,619 Speaker 1: that's important and to get people to understand we have 66 00:03:19,630 --> 00:03:20,690 Speaker 1: to communicate. And 67 00:03:20,979 --> 00:03:23,429 Speaker 1: I guess as humans, we tend to communicate through reading 68 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,339 Speaker 1: and writing. So in order to do what I want 69 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:27,029 Speaker 1: to do, I have to do this. I mean, it 70 00:03:27,038 --> 00:03:30,429 Speaker 1: seems like a sense of purpose is necessary for you 71 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,148 Speaker 1: and your career or at least that's what you're driven by. 72 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:35,869 Speaker 1: I would say that's a, that's a great way to 73 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,869 Speaker 1: put it. Thank you so much for putting it that way. 74 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,110 Speaker 1: What are the struggles, would you say that you face 75 00:03:42,119 --> 00:03:44,130 Speaker 1: though at work besides reading and writing. 76 00:03:44,779 --> 00:03:50,979 Speaker 1: Ah OK. So I have a bit of difficulty processing information. 77 00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:54,589 Speaker 1: So it's like about symbol like decoding and encoding. 78 00:03:54,850 --> 00:03:56,750 Speaker 1: So for example, let's say I'm looking at a piece 79 00:03:56,759 --> 00:03:59,059 Speaker 1: of paper, I see some stuff on the paper, some 80 00:03:59,070 --> 00:04:01,990 Speaker 1: black against some white. But to turn that into information, 81 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,860 Speaker 1: I have to recognize that this is black versus white stuff, 82 00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:07,889 Speaker 1: whatever is in front of me is text and then 83 00:04:07,899 --> 00:04:11,619 Speaker 1: that text are individual letters and turning that to recognize 84 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:14,619 Speaker 1: that it is text and individual letters or numbers takes 85 00:04:14,630 --> 00:04:17,869 Speaker 1: kind of a while for me. So that can cause 86 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: me to be, be a bit slower when 87 00:04:19,415 --> 00:04:23,034 Speaker 1: I'm reading or sometimes I will actually interpret, I'll see 88 00:04:23,045 --> 00:04:25,683 Speaker 1: those symbols wrong and then I'll end up seeing a 89 00:04:25,695 --> 00:04:28,204 Speaker 1: word that isn't the actual word that's on the paper. 90 00:04:28,214 --> 00:04:31,255 Speaker 1: Or sometimes I will end up dropping a word or 91 00:04:31,265 --> 00:04:33,815 Speaker 1: adding or it can come off as like an understanding 92 00:04:33,825 --> 00:04:37,434 Speaker 1: problem because then like I've interpreted, I've taken away something 93 00:04:37,445 --> 00:04:40,975 Speaker 1: else that was originally written. For example, if, if someone 94 00:04:40,984 --> 00:04:43,664 Speaker 1: says don't do that, please, I might read, do that, please. 95 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,769 Speaker 1: I might not realize it until later while like, hm, wait, 96 00:04:46,779 --> 00:04:49,459 Speaker 1: something doesn't quite make sense. And then I go back 97 00:04:49,470 --> 00:04:51,089 Speaker 1: and then I look really carefully and I'm like, 98 00:04:51,730 --> 00:04:54,630 Speaker 1: oh, I saw that wrong or sometimes I may not 99 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,779 Speaker 1: see it until somebody else tells me they're like, hey, 100 00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:59,899 Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense. What is this? And I'm like, oh, again, 101 00:04:59,910 --> 00:05:02,380 Speaker 1: I saw that wrong or I didn't see that at all. 102 00:05:02,390 --> 00:05:04,339 Speaker 1: Like I could look at it like five times and 103 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:06,540 Speaker 1: I still might not be able to see it. Ok. 104 00:05:06,549 --> 00:05:10,980 Speaker 1: But all those things, at least to mitigate those kind 105 00:05:10,988 --> 00:05:13,339 Speaker 1: of struggles. It seems like you need to factor in 106 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:15,660 Speaker 1: or buffer in a lot of extra time. Would you 107 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: say that you as a result? Struggle with time management? 108 00:05:19,390 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: I think that might come from a A DH D 109 00:05:22,170 --> 00:05:24,980 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I think eight HD are known to 110 00:05:24,988 --> 00:05:29,149 Speaker 1: be maybe a bit time blind. Yeah, I was going 111 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,869 Speaker 1: to say a bit challenged with time management because we 112 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: find something really cool or we get really focused on 113 00:05:34,049 --> 00:05:36,329 Speaker 1: working on something we can just go down that rabbit 114 00:05:36,339 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: hole or go off on that tangent and then suddenly 115 00:05:38,890 --> 00:05:41,230 Speaker 1: someone's like, hey, how is that thing that I asked 116 00:05:41,238 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: for two hours and then you're like, wait, what? It's 117 00:05:43,488 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: been two hours already? 118 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:48,570 Speaker 1: So dyslexia and a DH D together definitely, it causes 119 00:05:48,579 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: me to maybe require more time to do certain things. 120 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:53,469 Speaker 1: I would say I do need more time to read 121 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,529 Speaker 1: a document or to write something up just to especially 122 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:58,260 Speaker 1: to proofread it to make sure I didn't do my 123 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,579 Speaker 1: typical like drop a couple of words. So proof reading 124 00:06:01,589 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 1: will definitely take more time for me. Let's talk about 125 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:06,618 Speaker 1: reading and writing challenges. First, 126 00:06:06,950 --> 00:06:11,510 Speaker 1: would you say these are your biggest struggles? I think, 127 00:06:11,519 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: like in terms of, I'm not sure if that's the 128 00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:17,820 Speaker 1: correct word, but maybe physical struggles for dyslexia. Reading is 129 00:06:17,829 --> 00:06:22,209 Speaker 1: probably the biggest challenge. Writing is not as much of 130 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:23,140 Speaker 1: an issue for me. 131 00:06:23,410 --> 00:06:26,910 Speaker 1: But I would actually say the biggest struggle with dyslexia 132 00:06:26,970 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: and a DH D is other people's judgment or society's 133 00:06:30,209 --> 00:06:33,660 Speaker 1: judgment of you or how they perceive that the challenges 134 00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:37,010 Speaker 1: you face while working on a story with the Dyslexia 135 00:06:37,019 --> 00:06:40,399 Speaker 1: Association of Singapore. I was told that many with dyslexia 136 00:06:40,410 --> 00:06:42,618 Speaker 1: get diagnosed in the early years in primary school. 137 00:06:42,950 --> 00:06:45,260 Speaker 1: So I want to go to your personal story. When 138 00:06:45,269 --> 00:06:48,230 Speaker 1: did you know that you have dyslexia? And how did 139 00:06:48,238 --> 00:06:52,289 Speaker 1: you take that news? Ah, ok. So I was actually 140 00:06:52,299 --> 00:06:55,970 Speaker 1: told I was dyslexic when I was pretty young. So 141 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:59,738 Speaker 1: this was back in like first or second grade and 142 00:06:59,750 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 1: it was spotted by my teachers and my school counselors, 143 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,420 Speaker 1: but my family didn't want to accept that. 144 00:07:05,690 --> 00:07:08,339 Speaker 1: And so they were like, she just needs to study harder, 145 00:07:08,350 --> 00:07:10,269 Speaker 1: like she needs a tutor, et cetera. The kind of 146 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:12,809 Speaker 1: the sad thing was I also internalized that and, like, 147 00:07:12,820 --> 00:07:15,470 Speaker 1: took that with me as I got older when I 148 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,350 Speaker 1: was like a young, younger, I was like, no teacher 149 00:07:17,359 --> 00:07:18,929 Speaker 1: is not going to say I'm different, they're not going 150 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:20,890 Speaker 1: to tell me that, you know, I can't do something. 151 00:07:20,899 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: And then 152 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:23,570 Speaker 1: we went through high school I was like, no, I'm 153 00:07:23,579 --> 00:07:25,799 Speaker 1: just like everyone else. No, I want to be different. 154 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:28,970 Speaker 1: And then even went through university, I started to realize 155 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:32,179 Speaker 1: everyone can read, like, 10 times faster. If a professor 156 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:34,750 Speaker 1: assigns two chapters in an engineering textbook, they take one 157 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,329 Speaker 1: hour to read it. It would take me, like, maybe four. 158 00:07:37,339 --> 00:07:40,059 Speaker 1: And I'd be like, how can anyone get through all 159 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:43,049 Speaker 1: of this reading? I think this reading was unreasonable, but 160 00:07:43,059 --> 00:07:45,049 Speaker 1: none of my peers felt that way and I could 161 00:07:45,059 --> 00:07:46,769 Speaker 1: see that they finished and they could go off and 162 00:07:46,779 --> 00:07:48,089 Speaker 1: do their own stuff. And then that's when I started 163 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:49,170 Speaker 1: to realize, maybe 164 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,570 Speaker 1: it's real, maybe it's, I'm physically different in some way 165 00:07:53,579 --> 00:07:56,529 Speaker 1: and I can't help it. You would say that uni 166 00:07:56,540 --> 00:08:00,209 Speaker 1: is probably the turning point when you realized, OK, I 167 00:08:00,220 --> 00:08:04,959 Speaker 1: do need support. I can't continue to ignore my dyslexia anymore. 168 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:09,329 Speaker 1: I think in university is when I started to realize 169 00:08:09,339 --> 00:08:12,630 Speaker 1: I was different. But in the end, I still never 170 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,828 Speaker 1: end up reaching out for help in university itself. Like 171 00:08:15,839 --> 00:08:20,959 Speaker 1: I never asked my professors for extra time. Did you know, 172 00:08:20,970 --> 00:08:24,630 Speaker 1: it was possible to ask, I did, I was just 173 00:08:25,359 --> 00:08:29,950 Speaker 1: maybe too proud or too ashamed. I think both, maybe 174 00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:32,179 Speaker 1: ashamed and pride are the same two sides of the 175 00:08:32,190 --> 00:08:34,609 Speaker 1: same coin. That makes a lot of sense actually. 176 00:08:35,530 --> 00:08:39,250 Speaker 1: And so what was the turning point then since uni is, 177 00:08:39,260 --> 00:08:41,630 Speaker 1: I would assume you were in your early twenties? 178 00:08:42,429 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: Having gone through your entire life, two decades of not 179 00:08:46,568 --> 00:08:48,838 Speaker 1: speaking up, what made you finally 180 00:08:49,489 --> 00:08:52,340 Speaker 1: speak up and ask for help or support that you needed. 181 00:08:52,669 --> 00:08:55,510 Speaker 1: So it was actually an experience in university that made 182 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,260 Speaker 1: me realize that something was very wrong with society and 183 00:08:58,270 --> 00:09:01,700 Speaker 1: how the sexy and neuro diverse individuals might be perceived. 184 00:09:01,710 --> 00:09:04,099 Speaker 1: So I was applying for internships and jobs and I 185 00:09:04,109 --> 00:09:07,390 Speaker 1: encountered this A I hiring system. I submitted my resume 186 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,380 Speaker 1: and I got an email back that said, you know, 187 00:09:09,390 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: like my resume was accepted. But like before we could 188 00:09:12,330 --> 00:09:15,099 Speaker 1: do an interview, please go through, please do this online test. 189 00:09:15,109 --> 00:09:17,718 Speaker 1: That was for culture fit. The assessment required, like reading 190 00:09:17,729 --> 00:09:20,140 Speaker 1: about scenarios and then answering questions that were related 191 00:09:20,549 --> 00:09:23,070 Speaker 1: to those scenarios. The instructions explicitly said you had to 192 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,969 Speaker 1: answer those questions as fast as you possibly can. So 193 00:09:25,979 --> 00:09:27,900 Speaker 1: I did, I tried my best and then I got 194 00:09:27,909 --> 00:09:32,179 Speaker 1: rejected as not a cultural fit. I thought the situation 195 00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:35,289 Speaker 1: was really unfair and discriminatory because the questions were, you know, 196 00:09:35,299 --> 00:09:37,260 Speaker 1: I realized I could not have possibly answered the questions. Well, 197 00:09:37,270 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: the questions were like, would you steal a chair from 198 00:09:38,849 --> 00:09:42,069 Speaker 1: the office? Like the answer is obviously no, right? Like 199 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,119 Speaker 1: who would answer yet, 200 00:09:44,229 --> 00:09:47,070 Speaker 1: but somehow it's not a cultural fit. So either they 201 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,228 Speaker 1: want people who steal chairs or I answered them too 202 00:09:49,239 --> 00:09:51,049 Speaker 1: slow and I'm pretty sure no one wants someone who 203 00:09:51,059 --> 00:09:53,700 Speaker 1: steals chairs. So I'm pretty sure it's because I answered 204 00:09:53,710 --> 00:09:57,179 Speaker 1: it too slow and it was an automated system and 205 00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:59,059 Speaker 1: there was absolutely nobody that I could reach out to 206 00:09:59,070 --> 00:10:01,010 Speaker 1: for help. And that's when I started thinking, like I 207 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:04,219 Speaker 1: have dyslexia and a DH D but there was nobody 208 00:10:04,229 --> 00:10:05,780 Speaker 1: I could get an accommodation from. 209 00:10:06,010 --> 00:10:07,989 Speaker 1: And what about all the other people like me? There's 210 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: got to be other people with similar struggles or people, 211 00:10:10,849 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: you know, who, maybe they don't speak English as well. 212 00:10:13,609 --> 00:10:15,890 Speaker 1: It's not their first language or even if they have 213 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:17,830 Speaker 1: like a slow internet connection, what are they going to do? 214 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,169 Speaker 1: Are they just going to be just denied jobs? And 215 00:10:20,179 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: so that's when I realized that something was very wrong 216 00:10:22,349 --> 00:10:25,299 Speaker 1: with how people might use A I and I felt 217 00:10:25,309 --> 00:10:26,159 Speaker 1: like I needed to 218 00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:28,539 Speaker 1: do something about it. And that's also when I started 219 00:10:28,549 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: speaking up about it and, and owning being like, no, 220 00:10:31,330 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: I am dyslexic. I do have a DH D like. 221 00:10:33,570 --> 00:10:37,260 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that I'm less of a person, 222 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:40,809 Speaker 1: you know, I think that turning point or rather that 223 00:10:40,820 --> 00:10:44,159 Speaker 1: turning point being the trigger could possibly be related to 224 00:10:44,169 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: having a DH D because people with a DH D 225 00:10:46,650 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: are known for having this extra strong sense of justice 226 00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: sensitivity 227 00:10:52,859 --> 00:10:57,150 Speaker 1: or just feeling like things are not fair and having 228 00:10:57,159 --> 00:10:58,890 Speaker 1: this impulse to speak up. 229 00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. Is this like, look of enlightenment on 230 00:11:04,289 --> 00:11:07,630 Speaker 1: her face right now? I know from my research that 231 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: dyslexia and a DH D can overlap quite a bit 232 00:11:10,570 --> 00:11:14,260 Speaker 1: in terms of strengths and struggles. There is our big 233 00:11:14,270 --> 00:11:18,229 Speaker 1: picture thinking um being very good at pattern recognition but 234 00:11:18,239 --> 00:11:23,070 Speaker 1: also our executive dysfunction, whether it's time management or planning 235 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,250 Speaker 1: and prioritization. 236 00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,409 Speaker 1: What were the signs that you had a DH D? 237 00:11:27,419 --> 00:11:31,489 Speaker 1: Did you also realize or discover you were a DH D? 238 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:34,739 Speaker 1: At the same time, you realized you were dyslexic. Maybe 239 00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:36,409 Speaker 1: it was around a similar time in my life. But 240 00:11:36,419 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: what made me realize I had a DH D was 241 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,929 Speaker 1: actually when keeping organized, got too much. And I couldn't 242 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:45,530 Speaker 1: keep enough things in my working memory. And I would like, 243 00:11:45,539 --> 00:11:48,119 Speaker 1: can't remember if I did something or not anymore. One 244 00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:50,590 Speaker 1: of my first jobs I was working in life sciences 245 00:11:50,599 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: and doing experiments with solid cultures and 246 00:11:53,539 --> 00:11:56,330 Speaker 1: I had to put reagents in these tiny little 96 247 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:58,630 Speaker 1: well plates and they all look the same. So whether 248 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,739 Speaker 1: you put the agent in it or not, you can 249 00:12:00,750 --> 00:12:03,609 Speaker 1: barely tell because they're so small. And I would find 250 00:12:03,619 --> 00:12:07,030 Speaker 1: that I kept making like systematic errors in my experiment 251 00:12:07,039 --> 00:12:09,039 Speaker 1: because I had lost track of whether I had put 252 00:12:09,049 --> 00:12:12,289 Speaker 1: the re agent in that well or not. At first 253 00:12:12,299 --> 00:12:14,098 Speaker 1: I was like, no, it's fine. I did it all. 254 00:12:14,109 --> 00:12:15,549 Speaker 1: And then after a couple of times I was like, wait, 255 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:16,919 Speaker 1: why do I keep getting these errors? And then I 256 00:12:16,929 --> 00:12:18,809 Speaker 1: started thinking, wait, do I have like a memory problem. 257 00:12:18,820 --> 00:12:20,849 Speaker 1: Do I have like, dementia or something? Why can't I remember? Like, 258 00:12:20,859 --> 00:12:22,369 Speaker 1: why do I keep making these mistakes? 259 00:12:22,729 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: And then I start to realize a long, long time 260 00:12:24,770 --> 00:12:28,239 Speaker 1: ago again, my school counselors, they told me I had 261 00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:31,179 Speaker 1: a DH D but my parents were again, like, no, 262 00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:33,510 Speaker 1: she does not. She's just a kid. She just likes 263 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,219 Speaker 1: to run around, she just likes to do her own thing. 264 00:12:36,229 --> 00:12:39,289 Speaker 1: She doesn't have hyperactivity. She's not inattentive. And then that's 265 00:12:39,299 --> 00:12:40,169 Speaker 1: when I was my, 266 00:12:40,549 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: how does a DH D manifest in adults? So I 267 00:12:42,690 --> 00:12:45,260 Speaker 1: started to Google and read about it. And then I 268 00:12:45,270 --> 00:12:48,010 Speaker 1: realized all the things that I was kind of struggling 269 00:12:48,020 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: with in this research environment was because of executive functioning, 270 00:12:53,729 --> 00:12:57,369 Speaker 1: keeping things a working memory and being maybe overwhelmed by 271 00:12:57,380 --> 00:12:59,460 Speaker 1: lots of things that you could do. 272 00:13:00,109 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: That's when I was like, oh, it all makes sense now. 273 00:13:03,619 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: And then I still try to come up with coping 274 00:13:06,210 --> 00:13:08,750 Speaker 1: strategies and stuff to do like work in the lab 275 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,728 Speaker 1: using a pen to mark them. Whether or not I've 276 00:13:10,739 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: like dropped the chemicals in or not. But eventually I 277 00:13:13,890 --> 00:13:16,599 Speaker 1: realized the organization of the keeping the stuff in my 278 00:13:16,609 --> 00:13:18,429 Speaker 1: head was too much and I did have to go 279 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,580 Speaker 1: get help for that. 280 00:13:23,950 --> 00:13:26,989 Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. My name is Steven Chow and I'm host 281 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,909 Speaker 2: of CNAs Weekly news podcast, Heart of the Matter each week. 282 00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:33,820 Speaker 2: My job is to ask the questions you have like 283 00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 2: why is the coe so high? Why aren't singles dating 284 00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:39,939 Speaker 2: or what's going on with the Rich 285 00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: Heart property market in Singapore? If you want the views 286 00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:45,909 Speaker 2: behind the news, then tune in each week as we 287 00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:48,169 Speaker 2: get to the heart of the matter, we are on 288 00:13:48,179 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 2: the CN A and me listen, apps and wherever you 289 00:13:50,770 --> 00:13:54,179 Speaker 2: get your podcasts hit, follow or subscribe. So you don't 290 00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:56,020 Speaker 2: miss an episode when it drops. 291 00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:04,039 Speaker 1: How have your challenges changed? Or rather do you see 292 00:14:04,049 --> 00:14:08,450 Speaker 1: a compounding effect of having both dyslexia and a DH 293 00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:09,900 Speaker 1: D I would say 294 00:14:10,190 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: as an adult. Yeah, the problems kind of or the 295 00:14:13,330 --> 00:14:16,969 Speaker 1: challenges kind of shift. So when you're in school, a 296 00:14:16,979 --> 00:14:19,909 Speaker 1: lot of things are structured for you, maybe organization or 297 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:22,909 Speaker 1: time management is not as big of a thing, it 298 00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: might not even surface and you might not even realize 299 00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: that that was a thing that you needed to deal 300 00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: with because people tell you what your homework is and 301 00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:31,710 Speaker 1: stuff and the adult world in the working world, you 302 00:14:31,719 --> 00:14:34,250 Speaker 1: have emails coming in 300 emails come in a day 303 00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:36,219 Speaker 1: and spread across 20 different email threads. 304 00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: You're managing relationships with different people. There's different conversations going on, 305 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,179 Speaker 1: there's lots of stuff to track. A DH D have challenges, 306 00:14:44,190 --> 00:14:48,890 Speaker 1: tracking and organizing lots of things and then combined with 307 00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:51,070 Speaker 1: dyslexia when you're reading, but a lot of communications are 308 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: coming in in the world are like texts and emails 309 00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:53,859 Speaker 1: and 310 00:14:54,580 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: they can definitely start to compound a little, I would 311 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:01,799 Speaker 1: say the organization and time management aspects become more prevalent, 312 00:15:01,809 --> 00:15:04,590 Speaker 1: like the paying attention, sticking with the program. I feel 313 00:15:04,599 --> 00:15:06,799 Speaker 1: like those things aren't an issue for me as an adult, 314 00:15:06,859 --> 00:15:10,260 Speaker 1: but it's the organization and keeping things visible and not 315 00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:12,719 Speaker 1: losing sight of it actually. Yeah, that's true. I mean, 316 00:15:12,729 --> 00:15:15,250 Speaker 1: I was reading this research about how a lot of 317 00:15:15,260 --> 00:15:16,239 Speaker 1: people 318 00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:18,409 Speaker 1: who were not diagnosed with a DH D when they 319 00:15:18,419 --> 00:15:21,859 Speaker 1: were young, it starts surfacing in university or in the 320 00:15:21,869 --> 00:15:24,299 Speaker 1: workplace because then you are expected to be a lot 321 00:15:24,309 --> 00:15:26,770 Speaker 1: more independent and then you're expected to organize your time 322 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:29,380 Speaker 1: and your schedules by yourself. And so that's when your 323 00:15:29,390 --> 00:15:33,299 Speaker 1: struggles with a DH D start to show up, which 324 00:15:33,309 --> 00:15:35,869 Speaker 1: it did for me in university, but I didn't know 325 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,130 Speaker 1: it was a DH D at the time. So I 326 00:15:37,140 --> 00:15:38,250 Speaker 1: just thought it was depression. 327 00:15:38,619 --> 00:15:42,340 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I just couldn't keep my stuff together. What 328 00:15:42,349 --> 00:15:47,099 Speaker 1: are some coping strategies that you've devised? Your best tool? 329 00:15:47,260 --> 00:15:51,169 Speaker 1: My best tool at work is actually to make sure 330 00:15:51,179 --> 00:15:54,250 Speaker 1: that people know and that they can give me the 331 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:57,869 Speaker 1: time and the space and the understanding and the empathy 332 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,489 Speaker 1: to not judge if I make a dyslexia or a 333 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:04,809 Speaker 1: DH D mistake. Um So that is my number one 334 00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:07,369 Speaker 1: coping strategy of having my colleagues, 335 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:10,349 Speaker 1: you know, be understanding and what's the other strategy? The 336 00:16:10,359 --> 00:16:13,099 Speaker 1: other one is, I use a lot of color when 337 00:16:13,109 --> 00:16:16,020 Speaker 1: I write or when I'm drafting things. So I will 338 00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:19,020 Speaker 1: write notes and then like, and writing notes to myself 339 00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:21,349 Speaker 1: because that helps with the A DH D part getting 340 00:16:21,359 --> 00:16:23,700 Speaker 1: everything out of my head and onto a piece of paper. 341 00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:26,739 Speaker 1: So the ideas can then become organized. So I will 342 00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:29,549 Speaker 1: put notes to myself within my drafts and they'll be 343 00:16:29,724 --> 00:16:31,565 Speaker 1: all different colors. I might write a note about an 344 00:16:31,575 --> 00:16:33,864 Speaker 1: idea that it's floating around in my head and there'll 345 00:16:33,875 --> 00:16:36,065 Speaker 1: just be words out or bullet points and I'll add 346 00:16:36,075 --> 00:16:39,085 Speaker 1: comments in another color where I'll be like, hey, remember 347 00:16:39,094 --> 00:16:41,335 Speaker 1: to put a citation here or remember to look up 348 00:16:41,344 --> 00:16:43,304 Speaker 1: this part and expand on this part. So I put 349 00:16:43,315 --> 00:16:45,955 Speaker 1: little notes like to do notes for myself in my 350 00:16:45,965 --> 00:16:49,044 Speaker 1: drafts and my ideas are also in my drafts. I 351 00:16:49,054 --> 00:16:51,614 Speaker 1: think sometimes it's just the act of writing it out 352 00:16:51,940 --> 00:16:55,929 Speaker 1: which will stick it in our memory aside from struggles. 353 00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: Have you also realized that there were certain things you 354 00:16:58,770 --> 00:17:02,099 Speaker 1: were naturally good at due to dyslexia or a DH D? 355 00:17:02,109 --> 00:17:04,670 Speaker 1: And at work, how do you bring these strengths to 356 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:05,369 Speaker 1: the table? 357 00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:08,629 Speaker 1: So my friends and family have always told me I 358 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,319 Speaker 1: was like really creative and they say that I can 359 00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:16,310 Speaker 1: spot like patterns or connections in places where other people don't. 360 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,109 Speaker 1: And for a long time, I thought this was like 361 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,589 Speaker 1: pretty normal. I thought like everyone was creative, everyone liked 362 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:24,179 Speaker 1: to make art and everyone saw these little connections, like 363 00:17:24,189 --> 00:17:26,139 Speaker 1: how these things are related. But yeah, I started to 364 00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:29,829 Speaker 1: realize that this wasn't actually that common. And at work, 365 00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:31,129 Speaker 1: I think it helps me a lot 366 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:34,939 Speaker 1: because in my role, I analyze, I evaluate A I 367 00:17:34,949 --> 00:17:39,170 Speaker 1: systems for risk and then we propose mitigation. So to 368 00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:41,020 Speaker 1: look for risk, you have to look at the idea 369 00:17:41,030 --> 00:17:44,899 Speaker 1: for the problem or the situation from many different angles 370 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:49,739 Speaker 1: and consider how things could possibly go wrong. So I 371 00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:51,079 Speaker 1: think that's where spotting 372 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:55,510 Speaker 1: unusual connections or possibilities really comes into play. Yeah, actually 373 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,629 Speaker 1: that would really harness your strengths very well. I I 374 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,939 Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, just now you mentioned about how one 375 00:18:02,949 --> 00:18:06,770 Speaker 1: of your main coping strategies is just to get people 376 00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:07,550 Speaker 1: to understand. 377 00:18:07,959 --> 00:18:10,579 Speaker 1: And I think in many of the conversations I've had 378 00:18:10,589 --> 00:18:14,290 Speaker 1: with other neurodivergent individuals, the common threat is that no 379 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:19,369 Speaker 1: amount of tangible strategy, say like post it notes or 380 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:22,869 Speaker 1: whatever A I tools you might have, nothing can replace 381 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,770 Speaker 1: having a really good support system or a really good 382 00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:27,969 Speaker 1: boss at work, essentially. And 383 00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:30,739 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that you have a good work environment because 384 00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:33,859 Speaker 1: we actually met after your colleague told me that I 385 00:18:33,869 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: could speak to you if I wanted to explore a 386 00:18:36,170 --> 00:18:38,239 Speaker 1: story on adults with dyslexia. 387 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,910 Speaker 1: And I thought that was just so refreshing and such 388 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,569 Speaker 1: an open work environment that your neurological differences were not 389 00:18:47,579 --> 00:18:50,409 Speaker 1: hidden or that you could just openly talk about that. 390 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,410 Speaker 1: I just want to know more about your workplace relationships 391 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:57,390 Speaker 1: with your colleagues and bosses. And how did you even 392 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,250 Speaker 1: get to this stage where you feel comfortable enough to 393 00:19:00,260 --> 00:19:04,410 Speaker 1: talk about these struggles with them? I completely agree. And 394 00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:06,829 Speaker 1: I feel that I'm really, really for 395 00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: it. I'm like, so happy to have such a great 396 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: and such a understanding manager and coworkers. There are awesome people. 397 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:18,060 Speaker 1: And I think it's also related to our workplace, like culture. 398 00:19:18,069 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: So our workplace places like a lot of value on diversity, 399 00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:25,630 Speaker 1: equity and inclusion. And we recognize that we each have strengths, 400 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,060 Speaker 1: we have differences and that all our experiences, they're all 401 00:19:29,069 --> 00:19:31,780 Speaker 1: valuable and there are things to be respected. 402 00:19:32,170 --> 00:19:34,379 Speaker 1: So sometimes I need more time or sometimes I make 403 00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: writing errors and my colleagues have all been super understanding, 404 00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:40,540 Speaker 1: they don't judge, they don't blame. And actually a lot 405 00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: of them are curious, maybe like earlier this week, I 406 00:19:42,569 --> 00:19:45,938 Speaker 1: had two of my colleagues come and be like, hey, 407 00:19:45,949 --> 00:19:48,188 Speaker 1: I heard you were dyslexic, tell me more about what 408 00:19:48,199 --> 00:19:50,198 Speaker 1: it's like. I'm really curious. I want to know what 409 00:19:50,209 --> 00:19:53,030 Speaker 1: it's like for people with this condition because I've heard 410 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,930 Speaker 1: about it. I've read about it. So, is it like 411 00:19:54,939 --> 00:19:57,010 Speaker 1: you can't read or like, how do you, how do 412 00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:57,599 Speaker 1: you get through 413 00:19:57,869 --> 00:20:00,420 Speaker 1: life? Is it hard? I share with them and I 414 00:20:00,430 --> 00:20:02,739 Speaker 1: give them examples and they're like, wow, that's really cool. 415 00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:05,530 Speaker 1: That sounds like it's difficult. And, but both of them 416 00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: said they're like, wait, and you wrote the A I 417 00:20:07,689 --> 00:20:11,180 Speaker 1: policy and you write all of this other guidance documents 418 00:20:11,189 --> 00:20:15,380 Speaker 1: and stuff and like, like how, and I was just like, um, 419 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:17,958 Speaker 1: a lot of, I guess proof reading, a lot of 420 00:20:17,969 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: proof reading 421 00:20:19,630 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: a lot and a lot of proof reading and a 422 00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: lot of passion. I know some people would be a 423 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: bit put off by such questions they might think. Oh, 424 00:20:26,489 --> 00:20:30,339 Speaker 1: it's ignorant. But I think the intention really matters. So 425 00:20:30,349 --> 00:20:33,260 Speaker 1: I find that if you're genuinely curious, even if you 426 00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:36,438 Speaker 1: ask the question in a seemingly ignorant way 427 00:20:36,709 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: for me, I wouldn't get offended because I feel like 428 00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:43,540 Speaker 1: you're asking just out of curiosity and you're willing to learn, 429 00:20:43,550 --> 00:20:46,939 Speaker 1: you're willing to be corrected even if we tell you that, oh, 430 00:20:46,949 --> 00:20:49,500 Speaker 1: that's not very nice to say that or other people 431 00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:51,948 Speaker 1: might take offense. But yeah, I think it's really just 432 00:20:51,959 --> 00:20:55,030 Speaker 1: about asking questions and being open to, to learn. II, 433 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. I don't take offense if 434 00:20:57,650 --> 00:20:59,938 Speaker 1: people ask questions out of genuine curiosity, 435 00:21:00,005 --> 00:21:02,774 Speaker 1: even if they have like misunderstandings or it's a stereotype. 436 00:21:02,864 --> 00:21:05,405 Speaker 1: I think the fact that they're even asking to, to 437 00:21:05,415 --> 00:21:07,775 Speaker 1: want to know more was already so refreshing to me 438 00:21:07,785 --> 00:21:10,915 Speaker 1: that I would not blame anyone for saying like, hey, 439 00:21:10,925 --> 00:21:13,354 Speaker 1: I heard dyslexia is no. So and so it's totally 440 00:21:13,364 --> 00:21:16,073 Speaker 1: fine to me, it's just their curiosity and their interest 441 00:21:16,234 --> 00:21:19,665 Speaker 1: is already like, you know, like means a lot. I 442 00:21:19,675 --> 00:21:22,214 Speaker 1: think it's amazing that you have such a workplace culture. 443 00:21:22,224 --> 00:21:23,214 Speaker 1: But I think also 444 00:21:23,479 --> 00:21:27,750 Speaker 1: part of why you're able to maybe adapt so well 445 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,829 Speaker 1: to it or kind of respond so well to those 446 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:33,630 Speaker 1: kind of questions. It's also because you've reached some level 447 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,469 Speaker 1: of self acceptance that you're OK and willing to share 448 00:21:36,479 --> 00:21:39,270 Speaker 1: about your dyslexia and a DH D but many others, 449 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,310 Speaker 1: they still struggle to take that first step to ask 450 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:43,949 Speaker 1: for help, especially in the workplace. I've talked about this 451 00:21:43,959 --> 00:21:47,750 Speaker 1: briefly in our previous episodes regarding stigma struggles, etcetera. 452 00:21:47,979 --> 00:21:51,349 Speaker 1: And the Dyslexia Association of Singapore actually also told me 453 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,949 Speaker 1: that while many people with dyslexia are diagnosed in primary 454 00:21:54,959 --> 00:21:58,020 Speaker 1: school like yourself, it's possible that there are adults who 455 00:21:58,030 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: are unaware, they have dyslexia and the result is then 456 00:22:02,329 --> 00:22:05,569 Speaker 1: that they assume their experience is the norm and that 457 00:22:05,579 --> 00:22:08,349 Speaker 1: can make it more difficult for them to achieve their potential, 458 00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:11,729 Speaker 1: knowing what it's like to have struggled for a while 459 00:22:11,739 --> 00:22:16,250 Speaker 1: before speaking up. How would you advise these people who 460 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:20,829 Speaker 1: know they need support? And also how did you overcome 461 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:21,609 Speaker 1: that shame? 462 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:25,319 Speaker 1: Hm. Ok. I think I can definitely relate to thinking 463 00:22:25,329 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: that this is the norm and you know, it can 464 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:28,909 Speaker 1: hold you back until you realize that it took two 465 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,369 Speaker 1: thirds of my life to realize this. But when I 466 00:22:32,380 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: was younger, I was very self conscious and I was 467 00:22:34,729 --> 00:22:37,349 Speaker 1: nervous during situations where I might be put on the 468 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: spot to read and it definitely impacted my self esteem 469 00:22:39,729 --> 00:22:43,448 Speaker 1: and confidence. So I think my number one piece of 470 00:22:43,459 --> 00:22:45,209 Speaker 1: advice is to understand 471 00:22:45,569 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: your dyslexia, your A DH D for what it is 472 00:22:48,930 --> 00:22:52,310 Speaker 1: for you, how you experience it. And then to accept it, 473 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:53,060 Speaker 1: one of the, 474 00:22:53,319 --> 00:22:55,910 Speaker 1: the best thing that I ever did for myself was 475 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,889 Speaker 1: when I stopped treating reading as a skill that I 476 00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:01,609 Speaker 1: could master with more practice. And when I stopped seeing 477 00:23:01,619 --> 00:23:03,790 Speaker 1: it that way, I saw it as it's like wearing glasses. 478 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,729 Speaker 1: I wouldn't tell myself that I just need to like, 479 00:23:05,739 --> 00:23:08,739 Speaker 1: see harder or I need to squint harder. That's not 480 00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:11,380 Speaker 1: useful at all. When I saw it that way, that's 481 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:14,420 Speaker 1: when I realized it's ok to be different, it's ok 482 00:23:14,430 --> 00:23:17,339 Speaker 1: to do things differently and it's ok to do things 483 00:23:17,349 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: in a way that works for you. So I think 484 00:23:19,689 --> 00:23:20,869 Speaker 1: my advice is 485 00:23:20,939 --> 00:23:24,449 Speaker 1: to kind of find strategies where you can make use 486 00:23:24,459 --> 00:23:28,030 Speaker 1: of your strengths such that the weaknesses that you cannot change. 487 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,599 Speaker 1: The physical ones like dyslexia or a DH D won't 488 00:23:30,609 --> 00:23:34,229 Speaker 1: matter that much anymore. And then in the situations where 489 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:36,510 Speaker 1: you don't have any work arounds for your strategies, just 490 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,660 Speaker 1: ask for help. For me. It's to get someone to 491 00:23:38,670 --> 00:23:42,250 Speaker 1: read or check something if it's really important, most importantly, 492 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:46,609 Speaker 1: tell people about it so that they can accommodate you. Yeah. Yeah, 493 00:23:46,699 --> 00:23:48,488 Speaker 1: I think, I think that's the most important thing. 494 00:23:49,469 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you were talking about working harder to read. 495 00:23:53,790 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: I think that's also been my main strategy my whole life. 496 00:23:57,689 --> 00:23:59,469 Speaker 1: So before I knew that I had a DH D 497 00:23:59,479 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: and I faced all these struggles, whether it's with procrastination 498 00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:08,250 Speaker 1: or prioritization, just not being able to prioritize the way 499 00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:11,780 Speaker 1: other people seem to be able to do. My strategy 500 00:24:11,790 --> 00:24:14,500 Speaker 1: was always to tell myself to hide it better. 501 00:24:16,819 --> 00:24:19,609 Speaker 1: And the internal message that I had was just that, 502 00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:22,739 Speaker 1: oh I think I am struggling with this because I'm 503 00:24:22,750 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: not a good enough journalist and I assumed that other 504 00:24:26,449 --> 00:24:29,060 Speaker 1: people did not struggle with it. I mean, I guess 505 00:24:29,069 --> 00:24:31,069 Speaker 1: I was right, but I also thought that maybe they 506 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:33,589 Speaker 1: just hit it better. So the way to be like 507 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:37,909 Speaker 1: everyone else is just to hide it better. Yeah, that 508 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,139 Speaker 1: was me. I mean, I think when you don't have 509 00:24:40,150 --> 00:24:42,810 Speaker 1: a label to describe something 510 00:24:43,089 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: so ambiguous but also that, you know, almost permeates every 511 00:24:48,209 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: area of your life, right? 512 00:24:50,459 --> 00:24:55,829 Speaker 1: It's very disorienting because you know, something is off or wrong, 513 00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:58,550 Speaker 1: but there is no language to it. 514 00:25:00,010 --> 00:25:03,180 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's been very inspiring talking to you, 515 00:25:03,650 --> 00:25:08,310 Speaker 1: you know, how you've come so far from your self 516 00:25:08,319 --> 00:25:11,550 Speaker 1: stigma or shame all the way to self acceptance. They 517 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,688 Speaker 1: are able even able to speak up and advocate for 518 00:25:14,699 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: yourself in the workplace. And I really hope that it 519 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:20,649 Speaker 1: gives someone listening the right push that they need. And 520 00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:23,859 Speaker 1: to you our listeners, hopefully you've gained as much insight 521 00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 1: as I did. 522 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,629 Speaker 1: If you are like, once was on a journey to 523 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,109 Speaker 1: embracing how your brain works. I hope this episode inspires you. 524 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,390 Speaker 1: Let me know what you think of this series. Leave 525 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,819 Speaker 1: me a review or a comment on Spotify or Apple podcast. Much. 526 00:25:40,829 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: Thanks also to the CN A podcast team. Christina Robert, 527 00:25:44,819 --> 00:25:49,909 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Chan, Joanne Chan and Tiffany Ang for going down 528 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: this rabbit hole with me. I'm Grace. Yo. And here 529 00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: is wishing you the courage to embrace your brain on 530 00:25:55,530 --> 00:25:56,270 Speaker 1: your own terms.