Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Climate Conversations. I'm your host, Julie Yu.
Speaker 1: And when you hear the words, Chief and Officer, what
Speaker 1: comes to mind, corporate boardrooms, suits and ties perhaps. But
Speaker 1: as cities around the world grapple with debilitating heat, governments
Speaker 1: are turning to a different kind of chief is partnering
Speaker 1: with cities around the world to appoint Chief Heat Officers
Speaker 1: C O.
Speaker 2: Athens and Miami are hiring their own
Speaker 2: Chief Heat Officers to respond to increasingly hot weather.
Speaker 1: That's right. They're called Chief Heat Officers who lead in
Speaker 1: the fight against extreme heat. So what exactly does a
Speaker 1: Chief Heat Officer do? And more importantly, could your city
Speaker 1: benefit from having one to help us shed light on
Speaker 1: these questions? We are joined by Tiffany Crawford and Krista
Speaker 1: Milne and they are Co Chief Heat Officers of Melbourne Australia.
Speaker 1: Uh Ladies, welcome to the climate conversations. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Julie. Thank you. Lovely to meet you. So
Speaker 1: I would like to start by unpacking this relatively new position,
Speaker 1: Chief Heat Officer because it didn't exist 34 years ago.
Speaker 1: So Tiffany let me start with you. Could you just
Speaker 1: give us a sense of what AC O actually does? Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1: So Chief Heat Officers are principally engaged with the community
Speaker 1: to really elevate heat as
Speaker 1: a critical health issue. How that does impact our bodies
Speaker 1: on our health on the way that we go about
Speaker 1: our lives that is being exacerbated by climate change. Melbourne
Speaker 1: is the only city with two CHS Tiffany. Can you
Speaker 1: share your journey to becoming Melbourne's C? My background is
Speaker 1: in law and I was legal counsel for 10 years
Speaker 1: here at the city of Melbourne. And my education was
Speaker 1: very much in environmental policy and Chris and I started
Speaker 1: working together when she was leading some of the city
Speaker 1: of Melbourne's early work on sustainability, working on the Melbourne
Speaker 1: Renewable Energy Project on the 1200 buildings program on environmental
Speaker 1: upgrade finance. And I guess you could say we started
Speaker 1: scheming together way back then. So when this role became
Speaker 1: available as director, you know, has all good things start
Speaker 1: over coffee. Thought two heads are better than one and
Speaker 1: with our complementary skills, we were successful in taking that role.
Speaker 1: And since then, we have
Speaker 1: 11 extremely supportive councilors who have declared a climate and
Speaker 1: biodiversity emergency. Recognizing that we are facing an unprecedented challenge
Speaker 1: but also an opportunity around climate change to build a
Speaker 1: city that is healthy, that is resilient and that people
Speaker 1: are thriving. I see, OK, I mean, we see dangerous
Speaker 1: hot weather becoming more common, more extreme on every continent.
Speaker 1: But I wonder how Melbourne has been affected? What is
Speaker 1: the scale of the problem you're facing? Christine
Speaker 1: and cities by their nature can be much hotter than
Speaker 1: regional environments. Because of all the concrete, the way we've built,
Speaker 1: cities really absorbs the heat. And the urban heat island
Speaker 1: effect in Melbourne can be up to 4 to 8
Speaker 1: degrees hotter than our surrounding regional areas. At the moment,
Speaker 1: we experience about 11 or 12 days per year of
Speaker 1: extreme heat. And those days are when it's over 35
Speaker 1: degrees during the day, but
Speaker 1: also over 20 degrees Celsius at night. That's when people
Speaker 1: experience a heat stress, particularly when the night time temperature
Speaker 1: doesn't drop. So there's not a chance to recover and
Speaker 1: seek reprieve from that stress during the day. We know
Speaker 1: with the climate heating up, that average is likely to
Speaker 1: go up to somewhere between 16 and 20 days out
Speaker 1: of extreme heat. And again, that being an average. So
Speaker 1: some years there might be 30. So that's a whole
Speaker 1: month in a year of
Speaker 1: extreme heat. So it's also quite a dry heat that
Speaker 1: makes it even more challenging to deal with. From a
Speaker 1: health perspective, we know our most vulnerable people that can
Speaker 1: be Children, the elderly people with health conditions and people
Speaker 1: who are socially disadvantaged, their housing situations doesn't give them
Speaker 1: a place to escape and that's really where we're focused
Speaker 1: is ensuring that we are protecting our most vulnerable and
Speaker 1: providing places of refuge Christo. You
Speaker 1: earlier mentioned the equity issue because it's no secret that
Speaker 1: heat disproportionately affects marginalized communities and those with limited resources.
Speaker 1: How is Melbourne supporting those who may struggle to afford
Speaker 1: cooling solutions? Yes, it's a really important issue. And the
Speaker 1: first step that we've taken is really to seek to
Speaker 1: understand the challenges that those community members face. So throughout
Speaker 1: this summer, we had some direct engagement where we went
Speaker 1: out to our communities. We provided heat, help
Speaker 1: get some seminars to help them understand how to prepare
Speaker 1: what they should be looking for in terms of when
Speaker 1: heat waves are come, but also to listen and understand
Speaker 1: what do they do in a heat wave. And we
Speaker 1: heard some really challenging stories about people sleeping under trees
Speaker 1: or in stairwells of housing complexes because they simply couldn't
Speaker 1: get refuge in their own units. We know that there
Speaker 1: are community groups that operate around these vulnerable communities
Speaker 1: is that open up air conditioned rooms overnight. So part
Speaker 1: of our work is making sure that everyone has access
Speaker 1: to somewhere cool during the day at home and night,
Speaker 1: making sure that people know each other in the community
Speaker 1: because part of building community resilience is connection between community
Speaker 1: members so that we can check on each other. And
Speaker 1: then one of the things is really just understanding where
Speaker 1: in Melbourne are the hot spots and how do they
Speaker 1: relate to where our vulnerable community
Speaker 1: are living and then looking at what can we do
Speaker 1: to make those areas cooler through whether it's raining or
Speaker 1: other sorts of shading. We're exploring, you touched on human health,
Speaker 1: but Tiffany here it is also impacting food and water
Speaker 1: security as well. I wonder how you are managing resources
Speaker 1: also mitigating the impacts of water scarcity. It's going to
Speaker 1: be more of an issue now that La Nina is
Speaker 1: definitely over. So we're looking at a much hotter and
Speaker 1: drier summer
Speaker 1: or series of summers than we have been experiencing over
Speaker 1: the past three years. What that will bring is increased
Speaker 1: water scarcity. So we're not the only players in this space.
Speaker 1: We have water authorities, state governments, federal governments who are
Speaker 1: also well attuned and planning for a water scarce future.
Speaker 1: Part of our function here at the city is water
Speaker 1: sensitive urban design, ensuring that we are capturing as much
Speaker 1: rainwater in storm events as possible and
Speaker 1: storing those for the times when we need those. Because
Speaker 1: if we are going to have a successful urban forest
Speaker 1: that is able to cool our city by up to
Speaker 1: four degrees, we need water to sustain that forest. We
Speaker 1: need water to sustain our beautiful parks and gardens and
Speaker 1: all of the green infrastructure that we're starting to plan
Speaker 1: and see come to fruition across the city in places
Speaker 1: such as green walls and green roo. One of the
Speaker 1: things that Chris De also touched on is that with
Speaker 1: our really dry
Speaker 1: climate, it's bringing water to people's attention as an opportunity
Speaker 1: to cool. So that doesn't just mean going and jumping
Speaker 1: into the swimming pool because not everybody's going to have
Speaker 1: access to places like that. But how can we integrate
Speaker 1: water into our landscape through say water fountains, water play
Speaker 1: misters around the city places that without even realizing that
Speaker 1: people can experience so that they really do consider the
Speaker 1: city as a place of cool respite.
Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Steve Lai and I'm Theresa Tang.
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Speaker 1: Tiffany, I wonder how you are engaging businesses to adopt
Speaker 1: sustainable practices. Could you give us some examples that actually worked? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question because we are in the early
Speaker 1: stages of our heat work and we don't hold all
Speaker 1: the levers and need to be working collaboratively with our
Speaker 1: stakeholders across the municipality to achieve our climate objectives. An
Speaker 1: example of that is the development of our zero carbon
Speaker 1: buildings plan. So 60% of our emissions
Speaker 1: in the city are actually generated by commercial buildings and
Speaker 1: we need to bring down that emissions profile rapidly. So
Speaker 1: we've led a series of workshops with the private sector
Speaker 1: and particularly those in the property sector. We've actively engaged
Speaker 1: with the property council here in Australia around the development
Speaker 1: of a whole suite of tools that might be effective
Speaker 1: and then really going back to understand, well, what are
Speaker 1: our levers of control that we could use? How can
Speaker 1: we advocate to the state and federal governments here in
Speaker 1: Australia
Speaker 1: to make some changes? What funding and finance might be needed?
Speaker 1: Can we look at facilitating leases to incentivize the commercial
Speaker 1: building sector to more rapidly upgrade their buildings and make
Speaker 1: their buildings better places as well for their tenants. We
Speaker 1: also work really strongly with the Bureau of Meteorology and
Speaker 1: the research institutions to really understand data. So unfortunately, there
Speaker 1: can be a lag between when that heat event has
Speaker 1: happened and where we have knowledge of it. So that's
Speaker 1: one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why heat is known as a silent killer.
Speaker 1: Is it unlike a bushfire or a flood where there's
Speaker 1: a very strong visual hazard that heat is silent and
Speaker 1: where it just unfortunately led to a number of deaths.
Speaker 1: So we need to collaborate with those. So relationships are critical,
Speaker 1: all hands on deck and speaking of collaboration and knowledge sharing.
Speaker 1: I understand there is a sizable group of cos out
Speaker 1: there around the world. I wonder how often do you
Speaker 1: speak to each other? Engage, share lessons,
Speaker 1: practices. Yes, we have a wonderful coordination through Ash Rock
Speaker 1: who are really focused on creating this network through the
Speaker 1: Urban Heat resilience alliance. And brought the idea of establishing
Speaker 1: the Chief Heat Officer role at seven cities or eight
Speaker 1: cities now. So we connect probably about monthly formally, but
Speaker 1: there's certainly a lot of informal connection as well. Learning
Speaker 1: from a wonderful group of women from Freetown in Sierra Leone, DACA,
Speaker 1: Miami L A
Speaker 1: and Monterey and Santiago. So such a diversity in cities.
Speaker 1: But the reality is that the challenges and the focus
Speaker 1: and the actions, there's a lot of alignment in terms
Speaker 1: of what we're doing and learning from each other. I
Speaker 1: also found it very interesting. You mentioned it briefly that
Speaker 1: all of the Chief Heat Officers and the world are women.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a coincidence or what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this? A not a coincidence. It was
Speaker 1: quite deliberate on the part of the Aro Foundation and
Speaker 1: that is for a
Speaker 1: reason. And that is that heat disproportionately impacts women around
Speaker 1: the world, particularly in the global South. But it is
Speaker 1: an issue that impacts disproportionately women and that's borne out
Speaker 1: by data that's very interesting and recently hearing worrying reports
Speaker 1: where they talk about scenarios in which the world is
Speaker 1: almost certain to miss that 1.5 degrees Celsius of global warming.
Speaker 1: And let's face it. There have been numerous agreements, recommendations
Speaker 1: and proposals, but the reality is the planet is still warming.
Speaker 1: So I wonder
Speaker 1: in light of this reality, how would you respond to
Speaker 1: those who say that it's now too late to versus
Speaker 1: trends to mitigate the impact of global warming? Who would
Speaker 1: you like to go first? Yes, I have days like
Speaker 1: that as well. And Tiffany and I are lucky to
Speaker 1: be working on both sides of the equation in terms
Speaker 1: of working on innovative strategies to transition Melbourne to be 100%
Speaker 1: renewable energy and zero net emissions by 2040. And it
Speaker 1: is very easy to only see the negative stories, but
Speaker 1: also
Speaker 1: you see progress every day in terms of making that
Speaker 1: transition and that comes from all sectors. You know, governments
Speaker 1: continually funding and taking action towards mitigating and getting to 100%
Speaker 1: renewable energy. The markets are driving at renewable energy in
Speaker 1: Australia is now a lot cheaper than establishing new forms
Speaker 1: of fossil fuels. So while it feels like there's slow progress,
Speaker 1: when you look at where we were 10 years ago,
Speaker 1: progress is ramping up every day. But on the same time,
Speaker 1: we are crossing those thresholds.
Speaker 1: So we also need to work on the adaptation and
Speaker 1: accept that our reality and our future is likely to
Speaker 1: be hotter in Melbourne, we will experience less rainfall but
Speaker 1: more extreme rainfall events. So we're also working on how
Speaker 1: do we prepare the community from flooding, et cetera. So
Speaker 1: I guess I get hope from that. The pace of
Speaker 1: change continues to grow and continue to focus on those
Speaker 1: positive stories every day rather than being dragged down because
Speaker 1: otherwise it's hard to keep going.
Speaker 1: You focus on the fact that the climate is changing
Speaker 1: and Tiffany, what gives you hope? Oh, I have so
Speaker 1: much hope and you wouldn't be human or it would
Speaker 1: be unusual working in this space. If you didn't have
Speaker 1: some days of some despair, I have hope because we
Speaker 1: are surrounded by some pretty incredible, inspiring young people who
Speaker 1: are so talented. They keep us on our toes. The knowledge,
Speaker 1: the energy that the younger generations are bringing to this
Speaker 1: problem is astounding
Speaker 1: and sometimes our biggest challenges become our biggest opportunities. And
Speaker 1: what we have now is an opportunity to transform our
Speaker 1: cities into really brilliant, beautiful, healthy places where we're integrating
Speaker 1: green infrastructure into the way that we build our buildings
Speaker 1: and our roads and our public spaces where we can
Speaker 1: transform people's homes the way that they live, whether they're
Speaker 1: not spending hours and hours commuting, they might instead be
Speaker 1: adopting a 20 minute
Speaker 1: neighborhood. So I think that we've got this moment in
Speaker 1: time that feels painful, but that could be quite transformative
Speaker 1: and it's really important to have hope and to talk
Speaker 1: to people and find those opportunities and those glimmers. Isn't
Speaker 1: it a great message to end on Tiffany Krista? Thank
Speaker 1: you both for enlightening and engaging conversation. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for sharing your insight and also experiences as a
Speaker 1: chief hit officers in Melbourne. Stay cool and stay resilient.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Julie. A pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks to my guest and thanks to all of
Speaker 1: you for tuning in. We hope you enjoy this episode
Speaker 1: but do remember to subscribe and like this podcast. So,
Speaker 1: you know, when a new episode drops, you can find
Speaker 1: the C N A S climate and sustainability coverage online
Speaker 1: at C N A dot asia. The team behind this
Speaker 1: podcast is Joan Chan Charlene. So Jacqueline Chan and Christina
Speaker 1: Robert and I'm Julie Yu signing off.