Speaker 1: Hi guys and welcome back to the Building Financial Fitness
Speaker 1: Podcast today. I have a very old friend, not, you're
Speaker 1: not old, a dear friend that goes back more than
Speaker 1: a decade and somebody who's been on both sides of
Speaker 1: the table as an entrepreneur, as an investor. Our topic
Speaker 1: today is maybe a controversial one, which is the five
Speaker 1: reasons not to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1: I wanted to have you on to talk about this. Firstly,
Speaker 1: because you've been on both sides of the table. So
Speaker 1: you've seen it really from both perspectives and you've been
Speaker 1: involved in both in a very deep and involved way.
Speaker 1: But I guess before we get into that, it is
Speaker 1: important to have context. So tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: more about yourself, your history from the years of Zim
Speaker 1: in the early stages of, you know, Singapore start up
Speaker 1: scene till now.
Speaker 2: I'll probably get abridged version. My name is Julian co
Speaker 2: run a very, very small boutique VC firm called Star
Speaker 2: Storm Benches. We primarily focus on a isa it, I
Speaker 2: mean TMT as well specifically in the C
Speaker 2: see to pre series A stages, right? So we have
Speaker 2: a couple of investments done so far, how we try
Speaker 2: to differentiate ourselves is really to provide support for investing companies, right,
Speaker 2: to really, you know, provide more credible support for them,
Speaker 2: to help them skill and help them grow a little
Speaker 2: bit of history myself. Wasn't really a VC as per
Speaker 2: se though I spent about close to 10 plus years
Speaker 2: as a VC, I first started out in the stop
Speaker 2: seen with a father co-founders of mine, we founded this
Speaker 2: company called Zim, which was probably Singapore's first s a company.
Speaker 2: We did a live chat software basically, you know, like
Speaker 2: when you click the chat on, on a website that
Speaker 2: was pretty much us is
Speaker 1: that speech bubble on the bottom, right? That people are
Speaker 1: now very familiar with,
Speaker 2: correct? And again, just to give you some context, this
Speaker 2: was in 2007, I think some of your viewers may
Speaker 2: not even be born yet. So maybe
Speaker 2: their Children. So it was like uh yeah, 2007, 2008,
Speaker 2: we did it for about 67 years. Uh We became
Speaker 2: a leader in our space specifically for the small medium
Speaker 2: enterprises was a joy helping small medium enterprises talk to
Speaker 2: their clients. And then we never really raised funding. We
Speaker 2: had small funding from CS capital, but that's about it.
Speaker 2: And n us who gave us a small check, we
Speaker 2: did try to raise funds but not for the lack
Speaker 2: of trying,
Speaker 2: right? So then I realized that there's this entire class
Speaker 2: of financiers that was, you know, starting to start up
Speaker 2: in Singapore. We were starting to get investments, you know,
Speaker 2: probably also through our exit. In 2014, we sold to
Speaker 2: Zendesk and then we had a few other exits before us.
Speaker 2: And that kind of led to this whole explosion of
Speaker 2: start ups. Right. Finally, you know, we could see that
Speaker 2: it is possible. Yes. So I joined a very small
Speaker 2: CH BC firm called red dot Ventures, had a lot
Speaker 2: of fun.
Speaker 2: They create a lot of fun there, helping founders. And
Speaker 2: then I took a sabbatical, I would say kind of
Speaker 2: like a social enterprise start up focusing on medical care
Speaker 2: for about two years. And after that's done, uh I
Speaker 2: joined Vertex Ventures, the one that Joseph schooling joined has
Speaker 2: just joined recently, uh good for him. I'm actually rooting
Speaker 2: for him. I did that for about four last year.
Speaker 2: And then COVID happened and, you know, I started doing
Speaker 2: a little bit more of my own investments
Speaker 2: and I could also help start ups, right? So I
Speaker 2: had a couple of A I start ups. This is
Speaker 2: back in 2020 before chat G BT came about. And
Speaker 2: then I've been doing that since essentially,
Speaker 1: basically you've been an operator as well as an investor.
Speaker 1: And that's why I said that you have been on
Speaker 1: both sides of the table. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: very well, the pains of entrepreneurship right through your own journey.
Speaker 1: And also through many of our peers, people that we
Speaker 1: know who are friends, as well as people who are
Speaker 1: building businesses, had the benefit of history. Being able to
Speaker 1: look back to see how their journeys have evolved. Some
Speaker 1: of these can be
Speaker 1: decade long endeavors as you as you know, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this because, you know, if 2024
Speaker 1: we are seeing obviously a lot of layoffs, job market
Speaker 1: is difficult. And even with venture builders, we are seeing
Speaker 1: a very high percentage of people who are
Speaker 1: are thinking about being entrepreneurs or trying to use this
Speaker 1: spare time to see how they can build their own businesses,
Speaker 1: kind of to pursue their entrepreneurship dreams that might have
Speaker 1: been put on the side when they had a high
Speaker 1: paying job at a fan company
Speaker 1: or man, if you call it now. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to get your perspective on the other side because there
Speaker 1: are so many podcasts and content telling you to pursue
Speaker 1: your dream and to do your own business and be
Speaker 1: your own boss. And I wanted to just flip it
Speaker 1: and ask somebody who has been in the trenches, like
Speaker 1: what are the five reasons not to be an entrepreneur?
Speaker 1: I think
Speaker 2: I mentioned this to you personally before. If you ever Google,
Speaker 2: my name on Tech in Asia,
Speaker 2: I actually hardly write articles for Tia A until there
Speaker 2: was a single time I felt very compelled to write
Speaker 2: and it's an article about the loved ones, right? Because,
Speaker 2: you know, when usually when we have an exit, right?
Speaker 2: People usually don't look, they only look at the founder,
Speaker 2: they don't look at his or her family support behind it,
Speaker 2: the significant other, right? Who actually, in my honest opinion
Speaker 2: has to pay the high
Speaker 2: this price as they go on to pursue their start
Speaker 2: up dreams because it's really hard to see your loved
Speaker 2: ones suffer as they grind through the trenches. It is
Speaker 2: rather personal for me when I have friends coming up
Speaker 2: to me and say, hey Julian, I just quit. I
Speaker 2: just got my severance package. I want to do a
Speaker 2: start up, right? So usually I ask them to think twice,
Speaker 2: twice and
Speaker 2: very importantly, especially if they have a family or a
Speaker 2: significant other that they are planning to have a family with,
Speaker 2: to discuss it with them because it's very important to
Speaker 2: plan it out. The way I would illustrate, going and
Speaker 2: doing a start up is like you're going into a desert, right?
Speaker 2: And a lot of it, it's very hard, right? You
Speaker 2: have to really grind through the desert. You need to
Speaker 2: prepare as you go into the desert. Financial
Speaker 2: in a sense. How do you prepare yourself financially? How
Speaker 2: do you prepare yourself emotionally? How do you even prepare
Speaker 2: yourself spiritually? Because it would be probably the hardest thing
Speaker 2: you ever do in your life. And, um, if you
Speaker 2: look at the success rate of start ups, it is
Speaker 2: less than 0.1 or 0.2%. That's pretty much the rate
Speaker 2: across the board and all the more so. In Singapore, Singapore. Yeah, it's,
Speaker 2: you know, we have a lot of people trying to chase,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever it is hard. But I always ask them,
Speaker 2: are you convicted with that idea that you want to solve?
Speaker 2: Because it needs to be something more than just like
Speaker 2: I have a great idea. I have, I can reach
Speaker 2: PM fa product market fit and I can raise capital
Speaker 2: for this. You need to be really convinced of the
Speaker 2: idea of the problem that you're trying to solve and
Speaker 2: that you can solve this. Peter Tiel six is best, right?
Speaker 2: 10 times better than anyone else, right? Because
Speaker 2: just like in any fact of life, parental principles happens, right?
Speaker 2: And so the 20% of uh of people usually get 80%
Speaker 2: of all the resources,
Speaker 2: right? So you need to really compete at a world
Speaker 2: class level even even if it's, you know, you're basing
Speaker 2: out of Singapore because the market is so small, you
Speaker 2: need to find a way to actually compete better than
Speaker 2: the rest of your peers in that same space. It's
Speaker 2: best if there is isn't that much competition, but it's
Speaker 2: just a niche market, right? And then you can grow
Speaker 2: out of it. But still right. You need to be
Speaker 2: able to spend that kind of effort. We saw
Speaker 2: mind share and thinking in order to conquer that market.
Speaker 2: So that's a herculean effort. It's not something that everyone
Speaker 2: can do or majority of people can do in that sense.
Speaker 2: You're
Speaker 1: right yesterday. Actually, I gave a short speech, I guess,
Speaker 1: addressing a group of social entrepreneurs, I guess the ethos
Speaker 1: of the university was a dream there and do.
Speaker 1: But I kind of wanted to make a point that
Speaker 1: it's actually very easy to dream, everyone dreams. But is
Speaker 1: that daring, hard than the daring to do and actually
Speaker 1: continue to do the work when it gets difficult? That's
Speaker 1: the part that's extra challenging. And it underlines what, you know,
Speaker 1: the first two things that you talked about, which is first,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about family and financial responsibility because when
Speaker 1: it comes to an entrepreneurship journey, you are looking at
Speaker 1: salaries at a fraction of,
Speaker 1: of what you used to earn. Possibly you are looking
Speaker 1: at sometimes the livelihoods of the people that you employ
Speaker 1: and that, that is a heavy burden because the people
Speaker 1: that they employ, they have their own families when they
Speaker 1: don't perform, you need to fire them. That that's even
Speaker 1: more painful because you know, that you're not just affecting
Speaker 1: one person, but you're affecting someone who's supporting their wives
Speaker 1: or their Children. And that's not an easy decision to take.
Speaker 1: Um The second thing is conviction that you really need
Speaker 1: to have that conviction of
Speaker 1: problem that you are looking to solve. And I will
Speaker 1: add that part you said about how are you able
Speaker 1: to do 10 X better? These are the things that
Speaker 1: people need to consider and these are very practical things
Speaker 1: that yeah, you know, when you actually get into the
Speaker 1: challenge of it, it's very easy to lose that dream
Speaker 1: or that conviction, especially
Speaker 2: if you have a family, one of the unspoken parts
Speaker 2: of being an investor, you know, helping my guys and females.
Speaker 2: There's one or two of them
Speaker 2: and I never knew this right until I actually experienced
Speaker 2: this was, I have to be a relationship counselor.
Speaker 1: Like all kinds of relationships.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like
Speaker 2: parental or marital, mostly marital, right? But like all girlfriends, right?
Speaker 2: When the question comes up too, should we apply for
Speaker 2: H DB flat? You know. Oh my God. You know,
Speaker 2: CPF is so it's so empty, right? And in the
Speaker 2: age of social media, when you go on Instagram and
Speaker 2: you start saying, oh, you know, my friends are having
Speaker 2: holidays in Japan,
Speaker 2: you know, they're going, you know, to really exotic places,
Speaker 2: you know, why are you grinding away at your start
Speaker 2: up instead of like bringing me on a holiday? Right?
Speaker 2: Resentment creeps in and it is a poison, right? So
Speaker 2: sometimes you have to really step in and like
Speaker 2: have a beer or two that would like, you know,
Speaker 2: so which is why I stress so importantly if you
Speaker 2: have a family or if you are planning to have
Speaker 2: a family and you know, to have that very deep discussion,
Speaker 2: both of you guys have to be on board in
Speaker 2: order to make this work preferably you have. It is
Speaker 2: not just about, oh, you know, my partner is on understanding,
Speaker 2: but you know,
Speaker 2: understanding has its limits. Patience also has its limits, right?
Speaker 2: Usually it's a sh but she or he needs to
Speaker 2: know what's the payout, what's the expected risk to reward payout,
Speaker 2: you know, for her to actually take this risk with you.
Speaker 2: There's a conversation most people don't talk about, right? They
Speaker 2: just say, oh, I want to support my boyfriend. I
Speaker 2: want to support my husband because he or she is
Speaker 2: doing
Speaker 2: this thing must to pursue this dream. But it takes
Speaker 2: two to really, really like push it forward.
Speaker 1: I think that's an important point you raised. And I
Speaker 1: want to add to that the concept of timelines because
Speaker 1: what you said of, yes, I will support you regardless
Speaker 1: that could erode over time and in a very real
Speaker 1: way because sometimes entrepreneurs can get on to that journey.
Speaker 1: Maybe they are newly married and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: enthusiasm
Speaker 1: and then the first gate comes and then it's like, ok,
Speaker 1: we can solder through this. But the entrepreneurship journey, the
Speaker 1: average time it takes from start to exit,
Speaker 2: if
Speaker 2: there is an exit
Speaker 1: there is usually, I think 8 to 9 years, it
Speaker 1: could be, it's up to a decade. Sometimes it's more
Speaker 1: than a decade for some people
Speaker 2: and data. I have not really took everything up but
Speaker 2: do data. You're right. It's about 67 to 10 years.
Speaker 1: And this is a grind really. And sometimes you're looking
Speaker 1: at your child kind of get to from 6 to
Speaker 1: 16 and their educational needs and the financial needs would
Speaker 1: be vastly different. And often times in such a setup,
Speaker 1: you usually would have the other spouse who maybe works
Speaker 1: full time job, a corporate job and actually supporting. And
Speaker 1: then there comes that dynamics of maybe the wife earning
Speaker 1: more than the husband. If you're saying, usually the other
Speaker 1: side is a she and they need to be OK
Speaker 1: with it for 10 years and you add on to
Speaker 1: that the fatigue of and the chaos, the chaos of
Speaker 1: a start up,
Speaker 1: the fatigue of doing it. Sometimes the formal of seeing
Speaker 1: your peers like rise through the ranks in corporations when
Speaker 1: at the age that is in your thirties, forties. When
Speaker 1: people are kind of like getting to like the VPN
Speaker 1: beyond partner levels in organizations. It's not easy,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's really hard like I had a
Speaker 2: female ceo I shan't name because to protect her identity,
Speaker 2: she just gave birth about four months ago, 45 months ago.
Speaker 2: And she literally have to leave
Speaker 2: her baby after giving birth in another location just so
Speaker 2: that she could grind it up. Her mother in law
Speaker 2: and her mom, parents are actually taking care of the
Speaker 2: baby while she goes and fight fire. Very large
Speaker 1: sacrifices, especially for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And she just gave birth. Right. And this is the
Speaker 2: level of commitment that she has, you know, to her
Speaker 2: investors and to her, her comrades. Basically, it's easy for
Speaker 2: a guy to do that. Right? I mean, I, I
Speaker 2: would say easy. I mean, it's almost impossible. Your wife
Speaker 2: would resent you
Speaker 2: for sure. But for mother who just gave birth, right?
Speaker 2: For her to like center herself and to steel herself
Speaker 2: into doing this, it takes a lot of sacrifice. Um
Speaker 1: Given that you have the benefit of being able to
Speaker 1: follow many people's journeys. Yes. And actually knowing them personally,
Speaker 1: what do you think are times when it's actually not
Speaker 1: worth it
Speaker 1: because we are kind of like tackling the thing of,
Speaker 1: you know, what's the big reason not to be an entrepreneur?
Speaker 1: The reality of it?
Speaker 2: I guess
Speaker 2: it's not so much of the ones that, yeah, usually
Speaker 2: go along the ride with. They are all very super
Speaker 2: convicted people. Far more convicted than even I am. And
Speaker 2: it's a joy to actually support them even when they fail. Right?
Speaker 2: Especially when they fail. I'm usually the guy that
Speaker 2: like some of them will call when they get into
Speaker 2: some trouble like pr issue. I have to go in and,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like fix it or they get hacked,
Speaker 2: got to bring a cybersecurity audit team to actually go
Speaker 2: in and help them. The ones that don't, I would
Speaker 2: say the folks who want to do a start because
Speaker 2: it's cool. It was, you know, because, you know, it's
Speaker 2: something that is popular, right? Because of the prestige, right? Uh,
Speaker 2: and then you start seeing them rather than seeing them,
Speaker 2: you know, spend time with the customers, they spend time
Speaker 2: on pr you know, they get on list and they
Speaker 2: get on awards or, you know, I shan't comment on that.
Speaker 2: I shall not comment on that. But,
Speaker 2: but yeah, if, if you know what I mean, whereby
Speaker 2: the fame of being an entrepreneur is what drew them, right?
Speaker 2: And you can tell when you talk to some of
Speaker 2: the guys uh especially the younger generations that come on
Speaker 2: because they have been so inundated with uh even I myself, right? I,
Speaker 2: I still remember the day I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: It's still very vivid to me. I was reading a
Speaker 2: Newsweek article. Yes. You know, this for the Gen Z
Speaker 2: and the J of our kids that are still listening,
Speaker 2: there was Newsweek, there was this magazine called Newsweek. And
Speaker 2: magazines are pieces of paper that you read. You actually read,
Speaker 2: you know, in physical form
Speaker 2: when I was JC one. Yeah, I was just flipping
Speaker 2: through and the thing about Newsweek was, it's almost always
Speaker 2: about us or other parts of the world, right. They
Speaker 2: never actually usually write about anything remotely Singapore. And even
Speaker 2: if it's Singaporean, it's usually on old Mr Lee. Right.
Speaker 2: God bless his soul. Basically, I
Speaker 2: was going through this like top 10 entrepreneurs in Silicon
Speaker 2: Valley and then I chanced upon this gentleman called Mr
Speaker 2: Mr Pink.
Speaker 2: All right. So Mr Ong, sorry Ping Sing, right? And
Speaker 2: he was building this start up right off match. And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my God, this is possible, right?
Speaker 2: And I saw that this was possible that what Mr
Speaker 2: Ong did was possible. And that's actually how it sparked
Speaker 2: me to actually,
Speaker 2: I think that it could be done to look at
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley as the, you know, the Mecca, right? For
Speaker 2: start up, right? But a lot of kids nowadays when
Speaker 2: I talk to them, it's always like the bravado and
Speaker 2: I've talked to some of my female younger friends, you know,
Speaker 2: who go on like bumble or tinder, right? There's always
Speaker 2: when you swipe right. There's always uh some entrepreneur guy
Speaker 2: is there a preference for or don't
Speaker 2: I think there's a preference but you know, it it's
Speaker 2: now popular to write entrepreneur in your Tinder or your
Speaker 2: bumper right back when me and my guys, we were
Speaker 2: doing a start up, right? It was almost oh my God. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have friends who came to me and this is
Speaker 2: when I was still single. They specifically told their female
Speaker 2: friends not to date me because I was an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: They specifically say, oh, this guy you shouldn't date, he's
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur. He has no future until of course of
Speaker 2: an exit. And of course, there's a whole different thing altogether.
Speaker 2: But it was, you know, I think being a musician was,
Speaker 2: had more, more appeal than being an entrepreneur, a tech
Speaker 2: entrepreneur for the times
Speaker 1: have changed on that front, which is why I think
Speaker 1: it's even more important to know the reasons
Speaker 1: why not to be an entrepreneur because it's hard, it's
Speaker 1: easy to be a wanna be entrepreneur. I think when
Speaker 1: it comes down to the grind and actually putting in
Speaker 1: the work, especially when the team gets bigger and you
Speaker 1: start to hire people and then you're responsible for the
Speaker 1: livelihoods of others. That's when there's a whole bunch of responsibility.
Speaker 1: Spiderman quote.
Speaker 2: Yes. Really the grind and you really got to work
Speaker 2: way more hours a week.
Speaker 2: I know that you, you're supposed to have work life balance.
Speaker 2: But a lot of times circumstances, you know, because you're
Speaker 2: not just talking about your own equity success, you have
Speaker 2: eo on the table, you have commitments to employees. So
Speaker 2: the people who supported you in the beginning, right? It's
Speaker 2: a lot more
Speaker 1: than that. Thanks Julian for the very real take on entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1: I know a few listeners will appreciate it
Speaker 1: because this might be an episode that they will forward
Speaker 1: to their very enterprising spouse. Been grinding at it. Don't
Speaker 2: start arguments. Please don't come.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's important to have these conversations from
Speaker 1: the other side. Right. That doesn't glamorize entrepreneurship and comes
Speaker 1: from a place where you've had the journey yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: peers who have been through the journey themselves. So as
Speaker 1: much as we can look at the nice and shiny
Speaker 1: parts of being an entrepreneur where sometimes I guess in
Speaker 1: these days could be an advantage to your dating profile.
Speaker 1: I am not sure about that honestly, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's important to know the other side and thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing that.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's a lot of um I would say it's
Speaker 2: not just entrepreneurs but also venture capital in the sense, right?
Speaker 2: A lot of the associates I seen, you know that
Speaker 2: they will join the firms. They also have a way
Speaker 2: of thinking like they know better. Um This comes from
Speaker 2: a place of love. I'm not trying to go on
Speaker 2: some moral high horse, right per se. But you know,
Speaker 2: really to try to understand the challenges of an entrepreneur
Speaker 2: because a lot of times when we see companies bulk
Speaker 2: of the times, we will say no to them, 99%
Speaker 2: of the time we will say no to them. But
Speaker 2: when we say no
Speaker 2: see be compassion because you need to understand the challenges
Speaker 2: that he or she is going through. At that point.
Speaker 2: It is so important to actually keep the conversation going.
Speaker 2: Even if you don't think that they are a right
Speaker 2: fit for your investment thesis. Your boss doesn't like them.
Speaker 2: That's usually the case. But really try and be compassionate
Speaker 2: about it and know that if you were in their shoes,
Speaker 2: think of how you would feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Which
Speaker 1: is why I always
Speaker 1: really appreciate V CS who have been operators or start
Speaker 1: up founders themselves because the level of empathy is you
Speaker 1: actually cannot get there until you've walked the journey of
Speaker 1: being a founder. Correct? I I feel that it's impossible.
Speaker 1: And having been, you know, an associate or like being
Speaker 1: in a venture capital, a few VC funds myself, I
Speaker 1: didn't have this level of empathy to now. Correct?
Speaker 1: And I'm just starting right? Because
Speaker 2: you're going through the same journey and you see the challenges, right?
Speaker 2: And you see the bills holding out, right? And then
Speaker 2: you see your investors calling. Yeah, that's uh it's a
Speaker 2: rather stressful thing. Actually, I tell people, entrepreneurship is really hard.
Speaker 2: But the caveat I tell people is that it will
Speaker 2: be the biggest growth period of your life. Hm, because
Speaker 2: most times you have to figure out how to
Speaker 2: do this and now we charge GP T is actually
Speaker 2: a lot easier, but you will need to think about
Speaker 2: what you want to achieve, right? And then as you
Speaker 2: plan to do this, you learn a lot, I never
Speaker 2: knew how to do I would say pro engineering or
Speaker 2: stable diffusion or any one of those like a I
Speaker 2: until I actually had to learn how to help my founders.
Speaker 2: And so you as a founder, if you go and
Speaker 2: explore this, it will be the biggest growth period of
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 1: I agree. So don't let this podcast to you of
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship because there is a lot of learning to be gained.
Speaker 1: But do it with the right conviction
Speaker 1: uh go into it prepared knowing that your decisions will
Speaker 1: actually affect those around you that you love know that
Speaker 1: it is difficult and you know, it shouldn't be done
Speaker 1: lightly for the glamour of entrepreneurship
Speaker 2: and prepare yourself financially. Always buy insurance, always save up
Speaker 2: like some money for insurance for at least the next
Speaker 2: couple of years because you never know what kind of
Speaker 2: medical conditions like
Speaker 2: I I don't have an insure tech company. So I
Speaker 2: don't have any financial benefit from saying this but essentially
Speaker 2: insure yourself properly. Make sure that your insurance are are
Speaker 2: right after savings, buy some shares, you know, or buy
Speaker 2: when I mean shares. I mean like Blue Chip, right?
Speaker 2: Just to make sure that you know, your asset is growing.
Speaker 2: So and then you know, and have kind of like
Speaker 2: a little bit of a savings ne and things
Speaker 2: how you're going to expand that before you go in.
Speaker 2: So have a financial planner, right? Go talk to a
Speaker 2: proper financial planner not someone that sells, you know, many products,
Speaker 2: like someone who can actually help you plan for the
Speaker 2: next 2 to 3 years, how your financials are going
Speaker 2: to be like? Right. So at least you have some
Speaker 2: sort of order, right, in terms of like how you're
Speaker 2: going to plan yourself in the next 2 to 3 years.
Speaker 1: That's a very good advice, very practical advice.
Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of them don't do this until then
Speaker 2: they realize because they, you know, they do paycheck by paycheck,
Speaker 2: you know, so they have a cut off date. Also
Speaker 2: in terms of like, are you going to hit product
Speaker 2: market fit?
Speaker 2: The thing about product market fit is also even if
Speaker 2: you hit product market fit, it changes. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: liquid form, right? It's not static. You need to constantly
Speaker 2: fight to have product market fit. That's a very, very
Speaker 2: important aspect, you know, as you try and build your start.
Speaker 1: Thanks
Speaker 1: Julian for coming
Speaker 1: today for audiences who want to find out more about
Speaker 1: you or connect with you, where can they find
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 2: linkedin? Just go linkedin. Look for stars and or look
Speaker 2: for
Speaker 1: me. I'll link it in the
Speaker 2: Yeah, just say hi and I'm happy to have a connection.
Speaker 1: Thanks so
Speaker 1: much Julian for being on.
Speaker 2: Thank you
Speaker 1: many thanks as well to all of you out there
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This has been a fantastic conversation and
Speaker 1: we would definitely love to hear what you think about it.
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us,
Speaker 1: you can reach out to us through the email podcast
Speaker 1: at me, listen dot SG or at my Instagram at
Speaker 1: Miss Fit P. Aside from that, if you enjoy what
Speaker 1: you're listening to and want to hear more, please help
Speaker 1: to spread and grow the show by subscribing on me,
Speaker 1: listen or Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or by following on Spotify or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your podcasts. Finally, the Building Financial Fitness podcast is
Speaker 1: an original production from media Corp and recorded at Scape
Speaker 1: Life Studios. The pod powered by audio technica and city
Speaker 1: music episode production is done by Juna Yu with editing
Speaker 1: and support by Danny Cordy and Gareth Fernandez. Once again,
Speaker 1: I'm your host and BFF Junis. You until the next time.