WEBVTT - Invest 101: Are safe haven assets really safe?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to AC N A podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, it's me, your Money Talks host, Andrea Heng. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>before I get into today's episode, I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>actually know what you want to learn about personal finance

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<v Speaker 2>and then we can get the right guests to teach you.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. So let's get started with some quick headlines

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<v Speaker 2>that may help you make better financial decisions today.

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<v Speaker 2>I have my editor with me, Tiffany Ang in the studio. Hey, Andrea. Hi. Ok.

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<v Speaker 2>First up, did you see the news last week? That

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<v Speaker 2>a five room H DB flat in to payoh broke

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<v Speaker 2>record

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<v Speaker 2>and sold for more than 1.5 million Singapore dollars. This

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<v Speaker 2>is as big as my eyes can go. It is

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<v Speaker 2>quite it is quite big. I was shocked when I

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<v Speaker 2>saw the headline, I mean, we're not, we're not strangers

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<v Speaker 2>to million dollar H DB flats. But this is really

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<v Speaker 2>taking the cake 1.5 million. Yeah, it's the price of

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<v Speaker 2>a condominium. Really? Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But of course, these are the rare cases. The strongest

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<v Speaker 2>demand is still for four room flats. Housing experts are

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<v Speaker 2>saying that young families are pushing up the prices of

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<v Speaker 2>four room HDB flats by up to 35% over the

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<v Speaker 2>last five years. You know what if that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense? I think the appeal of three room flats

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<v Speaker 2>for young couples. I think it just doesn't make sense

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<v Speaker 2>anymore in terms of paying lease. And also, yeah, the size,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, so the four room flats, I mean, these

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<v Speaker 2>are probably

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<v Speaker 2>part of a popular category for growing families because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to buy a five room flat, it may actually bust

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<v Speaker 2>their budget, it may actually even be too big and

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<v Speaker 2>they don't want to have to wait for a BT

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<v Speaker 2>O flat and that, you know, we can take up

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<v Speaker 2>to 4 to 5 years to build, correct, let alone

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<v Speaker 2>waiting for the keys. The Renault add to that. It's

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<v Speaker 2>I know before you know, it's 67 years. Right? And

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<v Speaker 2>three kids later. Exactly. So one can only hope that

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<v Speaker 2>these prices don't soar to record levels with this growing

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<v Speaker 2>fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Well, speaking of property big news

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<v Speaker 2>this week for China real estate watchers. Yeah, Hong Kong

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<v Speaker 2>court has ordered the liquidation of China Evergrande Group. So Evergrande,

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<v Speaker 2>if you didn't know has more than $300 billion of

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<v Speaker 2>total liabilities, that's a lot of money. Well, it sent

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<v Speaker 2>the struggling property sector in China into a tail spin

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<v Speaker 2>when it defaulted on its debt in 2021. This ever

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<v Speaker 2>Grand saga is a never

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<v Speaker 2>story. I mean, China's property market really hasn't been looking

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<v Speaker 2>very good and its stock market. Well, it has been

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<v Speaker 2>wallowing near five year low. So all eyes are now

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<v Speaker 2>on what the government is going to do next to

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<v Speaker 2>rejuvenate growth in the ailing Chinese economy. And this ever

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<v Speaker 2>grow saga. I think it's just making it worse. This

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<v Speaker 2>is also a good time to remind everyone of the

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<v Speaker 2>risks of investing in some sectors and for some investors

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<v Speaker 2>to perhaps even re look at your portfolio.

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<v Speaker 2>So perhaps in this climate, adjust your exposure to China

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<v Speaker 2>according to your risk profile. Yeah, that's some good advice.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know what, it's not all doom and gloom.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a listen to an episode that we did last

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<v Speaker 2>year when China was reopening after COVID-19, we did talk

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<v Speaker 2>about some possible growth sectors in the country. Just search

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<v Speaker 2>for as China reopens for business. Is it time to

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<v Speaker 2>invest in China's stocks? Remember always do your homework, find

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<v Speaker 2>the right professional advice and you'll be on your way.

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<v Speaker 2>So every other year my mom asks to go shopping

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<v Speaker 2>for gold. I don't know about you. But when I

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<v Speaker 2>was younger, I didn't understand the significance of this. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>why was it so important to hoard gold after all?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a really simple G OK. When it comes to jewelry,

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<v Speaker 2>just one pair of earrings, one bracelet. That's it. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need more. But then I got older and then

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<v Speaker 2>I started to understand,

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<v Speaker 2>I admit this is a very simplistic way of looking

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<v Speaker 2>at investing in gold as a rainy day asset. But

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<v Speaker 2>putting your money in safe havens have long been a

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<v Speaker 2>go to for many people. Gold are the precious metals,

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<v Speaker 2>some currencies, some defensive stocks. These are traditional safe havens.

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<v Speaker 2>But

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<v Speaker 2>do they really come with zero risks? That's what this

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<v Speaker 2>episode is. Hopefully going to answer with assistance from Vasu Menon,

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<v Speaker 2>managing director for investment strategy at OCBC. Welcome to the

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<v Speaker 2>money talks about K. Thank you very much. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 2>having me. Good to have you on the show. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>start with gold. What I started with just now, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So tell me, Vasu has my mom

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<v Speaker 2>and pretty much all moms been doing the right thing,

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<v Speaker 2>buying stacks of gold jewelry over the years when prices

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<v Speaker 2>were favorable. Well, you know, I think it makes sense

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<v Speaker 2>for people to buy gold. Absolutely makes sense. Just to

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<v Speaker 2>put things in perspective, the supply of gold in the

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<v Speaker 2>world is limited to 3.5 Olympic size swimming pools. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's not a, that's not a lot. Exactly. So there's

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<v Speaker 2>a very limited supply of gold worldwide. On the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>demand for gold has increased quite a lot

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<v Speaker 2>in the last few years. Ok. Put aside individuals, just

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<v Speaker 2>look at central banks, central banks have been trying to

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<v Speaker 2>diversify their holdings of assets away from the US dollar,

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<v Speaker 2>which something will depreciate over time towards other assets as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the assets they've been buying in quite

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<v Speaker 2>a significant amount has been gold. In fact, the purchase

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<v Speaker 2>of gold in 2022 hit a record high.

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<v Speaker 2>And in the first nine months of last year, you

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<v Speaker 2>had 800 tons of gold being bought and that's a 14%

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<v Speaker 2>increase over the same period in 2023. So probably we

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<v Speaker 2>had another record deal of purchases of gold from institutions

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<v Speaker 2>in 2023. So that's the institutional side of things, not

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<v Speaker 2>just central banks pension funds and but from the individual perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a greater way

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<v Speaker 2>towards the benefits of gold. Why is gold appealing? Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Number one, I think gold offers you what they call

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<v Speaker 2>zero carry or zero yield. You don't get dividend yield

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<v Speaker 2>from gold like you do when you buy stocks or bonds, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So when interest rates come down, which are likely to

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<v Speaker 2>happen in the next 2 to 3 years, that will

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<v Speaker 2>enhance the appeal of gold because it's all relative, right?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the other factor that also August. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>for

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<v Speaker 2>goal is the fact that if central banks cut interest rates,

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<v Speaker 2>which look likely in the next 2 to 3 years,

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<v Speaker 2>the US dollar is likely to weaken, goal is priced

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<v Speaker 2>in US dollars. And that makes goal more attractive, affordable.

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<v Speaker 2>And again, that spurs demand for gold. So cheaper dollar

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<v Speaker 2>equals cheaper, go cheaper dollar equals cheaper goal and therefore

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<v Speaker 2>a greater demand for gold. And of course, the third

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<v Speaker 2>factor is the world we're living in is a highly

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<v Speaker 2>uncertain place, both from a political standpoint, as well as

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<v Speaker 2>economic standpoint. And I've been in the industry, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>looking at investment markets for the last more than 34 years.

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<v Speaker 2>And I can tell you that I've never seen so

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<v Speaker 2>many moving parts at one time. So you've got crazy. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's crazy. We've got so much happening around the world,

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<v Speaker 2>so many moving parts. And so again, investors are looking

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<v Speaker 2>for something

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<v Speaker 2>where the value they believe will hold in the long

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<v Speaker 2>term gold is limited in supply. So you know, individuals

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<v Speaker 2>as well buying gold because there's a greater awareness about

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that gold is a safe haven, as you said,

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<v Speaker 2>offers you some protection in the event of uncertainty, think

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<v Speaker 2>of gold as an insurance policy right? Within your portfolio,

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<v Speaker 2>you want to have some insurance, some exposure to something

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<v Speaker 2>that gives you some degree of protect,

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<v Speaker 2>right? And not everything is thrown into highly risky assets, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So treat gold as an insurance policy. Have some of it,

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<v Speaker 2>but don't over investigate. Right. Ok. That's a good point. Actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of it as just a cover. That's really rightfully right.

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<v Speaker 2>You said we keep hearing about gold and how resilient

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<v Speaker 2>it is as a commodity. And as you said, the

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<v Speaker 2>US dollar is weakening. So gold is something that thrives

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<v Speaker 2>in financial instability.

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<v Speaker 2>Those rate cuts weaker economic performances expected in 2024 geopolitics,

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<v Speaker 2>as you said, also all a combination for a year

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<v Speaker 2>of uncertainty. What's the reason for the resilience of goal

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<v Speaker 2>compared to say silver, for example? Well, again, goal is

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<v Speaker 2>something that has a higher profile. Silver is also linked

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<v Speaker 2>to how economies do. It's sometimes deemed as an industrial

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<v Speaker 2>metal. And so if the global economy slow down, then

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<v Speaker 2>the demand for silver can also slow down for industrial use, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So the outlook for silver is less clear compared to go,

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<v Speaker 2>go on. The other hand, usually does not have any

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<v Speaker 2>industrial application less tight to the economic cycle. Understood. So,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you look at 2023 although stock markets and

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<v Speaker 2>bond markets ended the year on a higher note, if

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<v Speaker 2>you had a chart

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<v Speaker 2>of the stock and bond markets in 2023 what is

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<v Speaker 2>a roller coaster ride? It's like being in universal studio

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<v Speaker 2>taking the roller coaster ride, right? It wasn't a smooth

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<v Speaker 2>ride and that's the kind of environment that gold typically

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<v Speaker 2>tends to do well in. Right. And that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>happened last year. So it really just boils down to

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<v Speaker 2>the profile of gold. That's just how gold behaves. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the way go behaves. It tends to do well

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<v Speaker 2>when you have lots of volatility and uncertainty. But

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<v Speaker 2>the other factor that benefited goal, especially towards the end

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<v Speaker 2>of last year is the very sharp decline in us

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<v Speaker 2>bond yields, right? So the market started taking a view

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<v Speaker 2>that central banks are going to turn Dovish. They're going

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<v Speaker 2>to pivot in 2024 they're going to cut rates. And

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<v Speaker 2>what we saw was as a consequence of that us

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<v Speaker 2>10 year bond yields came off from like

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<v Speaker 2>5% to below 4%. That's a very sharp decline of

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<v Speaker 2>more than 1% in a matter of like two months

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<v Speaker 2>or so. And that gave gold a big boost. No

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<v Speaker 2>wonder we saw those spikes in gold prices towards the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the year precisely. But on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 2>if you look at 2022 when the fed started hiking

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<v Speaker 2>rates sharply, guess what happened, go, coal prices fell 20%.

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<v Speaker 2>So while we say it's a safe haven in reality,

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<v Speaker 2>its price is also determined by factors that are not

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<v Speaker 2>just linked to crisis and turmoil, but also sometimes economic fundamentals,

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<v Speaker 2>especially interest rates because bear in mind goal offers you

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<v Speaker 2>zero carry or zero yield. And therefore, when interest rates

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<v Speaker 2>are going up,

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<v Speaker 2>then there's less reason for investors to invest in gold

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<v Speaker 2>when they can actually put their money into other asset

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<v Speaker 2>classes like stocks and bonds that give them pretty good yield. Right?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not the tough cookie. We all thought it was.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a vulnerability definitely, which is why you should

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<v Speaker 2>not over invests in it. Treat it as a insurance policy, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Treat it as a portfolio diversified, have some of it

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<v Speaker 2>in a portfolio. Yeah, but not all of it don't

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<v Speaker 2>go all in on it, of course. Ok. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>come back to that concept of safe haven assets, right?

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<v Speaker 2>How would you describe them,

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<v Speaker 2>the value of safe assets typically tend to hold or

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate during an economic downturn during an economic crisis, during

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<v Speaker 2>a financial crisis, during periods of political upheaval and turmoil.

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<v Speaker 2>So again, they offer you a backstop, they offer you

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<v Speaker 2>some degree of protection in a portfolio in the event

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<v Speaker 2>of severe uncertainty and crisis. So that's what safe havens are.

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<v Speaker 2>They typically tend to hold up well, in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>value and even appreciate during times of crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>So when it comes to gold, it's a very low

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<v Speaker 2>or no, almost no yield. So when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>the other safe havens, are we looking at some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of yield? Would you say that these are must haves

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<v Speaker 2>in your portfolio? You've got quite a number of safe

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<v Speaker 2>haven assets out there? If you pick the currency

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<v Speaker 2>market, for example, the Japanese Yen is typically seen as

0:11:45.364 --> 0:11:48.195
<v Speaker 2>a safe haven asset. The Swiss franc is seen as

0:11:48.265 --> 0:11:50.835
<v Speaker 2>a safe haven an asset. I think the Japanese Yen,

0:11:50.844 --> 0:11:54.363
<v Speaker 2>for example, looks interesting right now because the Japanese government

0:11:54.375 --> 0:11:57.655
<v Speaker 2>has adopted ultra loose monetary policy. While other central banks

0:11:57.664 --> 0:11:58.794
<v Speaker 2>were hiking rates, they were,

0:11:59.099 --> 0:12:01.460
<v Speaker 2>you know, adopting ultra, that's where I'm going for my

0:12:01.469 --> 0:12:04.309
<v Speaker 2>holiday in March. Precisely. I think more than half of

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.150
<v Speaker 2>Singapore is probably in Japan last November, December, right? Because

0:12:07.159 --> 0:12:09.919
<v Speaker 2>the yen is so weak but nothing stays down forever.

0:12:09.929 --> 0:12:13.919
<v Speaker 2>So come 2425 inflation picks up in Japan and the

0:12:13.929 --> 0:12:18.390
<v Speaker 2>Japanese economy is gaining traction, find stability that inspires confidence

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.659
<v Speaker 2>in the central bank to start hiking rates a bit

0:12:21.669 --> 0:12:23.080
<v Speaker 2>gradually that we

0:12:23.166 --> 0:12:26.366
<v Speaker 2>thing is going to drive the Japanese Yen higher. And

0:12:26.375 --> 0:12:28.736
<v Speaker 2>of course, with so much happening this year, we got

0:12:28.745 --> 0:12:32.885
<v Speaker 2>40 national elections happening this year. It must be a record.

0:12:32.895 --> 0:12:36.705
<v Speaker 2>It's a record, 40 national elections covering 40% of the

0:12:36.716 --> 0:12:39.226
<v Speaker 2>world population. Of course, the big one, the big one,

0:12:39.236 --> 0:12:41.346
<v Speaker 2>Andrea is the one at the end of this year

0:12:41.356 --> 0:12:44.064
<v Speaker 2>with the US elections. And the big question is whether

0:12:44.075 --> 0:12:46.745
<v Speaker 2>Trump is going to make a comeback in 2.0? People

0:12:46.755 --> 0:12:47.145
<v Speaker 2>don't often

0:12:47.231 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that these things don't affect the markets. They

0:12:49.291 --> 0:12:51.931
<v Speaker 2>actually do, they do impact the market quite significantly, you know,

0:12:51.942 --> 0:12:54.312
<v Speaker 2>but for example, if Trump comes back it could mean

0:12:54.322 --> 0:12:56.692
<v Speaker 2>a period of uncertainty volatility which is going to be

0:12:56.702 --> 0:13:00.290
<v Speaker 2>good news for gold. So I think looking ahead this

0:13:00.302 --> 0:13:02.471
<v Speaker 2>year goal and of course the Japanese Yen as well,

0:13:02.481 --> 0:13:04.580
<v Speaker 2>not just go but other safe haven assets as well.

0:13:04.591 --> 0:13:06.530
<v Speaker 2>So talking about the Japanese Yen, you know, if the

0:13:06.541 --> 0:13:09.442
<v Speaker 2>central bank changes policy increases interest rates, that's going to

0:13:09.452 --> 0:13:11.331
<v Speaker 2>be good for the yen. So we see the yen

0:13:11.421 --> 0:13:13.502
<v Speaker 2>appreciating more than the Swiss Franc

0:13:13.729 --> 0:13:17.030
<v Speaker 2>this year. Why is the Japanese Yen a safe haven currency?

0:13:17.039 --> 0:13:18.580
<v Speaker 2>That was going to be my question. Yeah, that's right.

0:13:18.590 --> 0:13:19.979
<v Speaker 2>You know, I mean, I saw that coming and I

0:13:19.989 --> 0:13:22.500
<v Speaker 2>thought I better answer before you ask it. And you know,

0:13:22.510 --> 0:13:24.229
<v Speaker 2>I think if you look at Japan, it is the

0:13:24.239 --> 0:13:27.109
<v Speaker 2>largest creditor nation in the world. What does that mean?

0:13:27.119 --> 0:13:30.150
<v Speaker 2>What that means is that they own more external assets

0:13:30.390 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 2>then they owe. So if you take the amount of

0:13:33.770 --> 0:13:38.130
<v Speaker 2>assets that the Japanese economy owns compared to what it owes,

0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.299
<v Speaker 2>they own a lot more compared to what they owe.

0:13:40.309 --> 0:13:43.010
<v Speaker 2>So lower debt and higher assets. That's right. So you

0:13:43.020 --> 0:13:45.359
<v Speaker 2>think of it as when they invest in overseas markets,

0:13:45.369 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 2>as assets, when they owe overseas markets, overseas investors money,

0:13:49.010 --> 0:13:52.280
<v Speaker 2>that's liability, the assets minus liability, that amount comes up

0:13:52.289 --> 0:13:57.770
<v Speaker 2>to more than $410 trillion right? That's a

0:13:58.070 --> 0:14:01.669
<v Speaker 2>amount, right? So that to have in the pocket, nice

0:14:01.710 --> 0:14:03.709
<v Speaker 2>to have in the pocket and that's the largest in

0:14:03.719 --> 0:14:07.069
<v Speaker 2>the world. You know, so that provides the currency with

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.260
<v Speaker 2>some degree of backstop. Now, the other thing that works

0:14:09.270 --> 0:14:10.469
<v Speaker 2>in favor of the currency is the fact that the

0:14:10.479 --> 0:14:14.210
<v Speaker 2>Japanese economy enjoys what they call a current account surplus, right?

0:14:14.219 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 2>And that gives you an idea of the balance in

0:14:16.849 --> 0:14:19.359
<v Speaker 2>terms of trade and services between Japan and the rest

0:14:19.369 --> 0:14:23.609
<v Speaker 2>of the world. And they've got a current account surplus. Again,

0:14:23.619 --> 0:14:25.340
<v Speaker 2>typically that underpins

0:14:25.539 --> 0:14:28.919
<v Speaker 2>the currency and Japan is now seeing a period of

0:14:28.929 --> 0:14:32.179
<v Speaker 2>political stability generally, as I said, icing on the cake

0:14:32.190 --> 0:14:33.770
<v Speaker 2>is that interest rates probably going to go up in

0:14:33.780 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Japan after being ultra loose, ultra low for many years,

0:14:36.890 --> 0:14:39.750
<v Speaker 2>that's going to be the tail wind for the Japanese currency.

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.679
<v Speaker 2>So put all that together. Again, the Japanese currency is

0:14:42.690 --> 0:14:45.369
<v Speaker 2>something to bear in mind. Of course, here in Singapore,

0:14:45.380 --> 0:14:48.619
<v Speaker 2>investors have been gravitating towards safe havens like t bills,

0:14:48.630 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 2>treasury bills, treasury bills, six months, 12 month treasury bills

0:14:52.950 --> 0:14:56.409
<v Speaker 2>and putting money into Singapore savings bonds, those are probably

0:14:56.559 --> 0:15:00.549
<v Speaker 2>less risky, less volatile, but you also don't enjoy a

0:15:00.559 --> 0:15:04.169
<v Speaker 2>lot of capital upside from those things. With the Japanese Yen,

0:15:04.179 --> 0:15:06.869
<v Speaker 2>you can actually enjoy capital upside if the Japanese currency

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.190
<v Speaker 2>appreciates or if gold appreciates but with T bills and

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.900
<v Speaker 2>with Singapore savings bonds, you don't enjoy the capital upside

0:15:12.909 --> 0:15:16.020
<v Speaker 2>and what you're in it for is really just the yield. Right. Right. So,

0:15:16.030 --> 0:15:19.650
<v Speaker 2>so different safe havens have different characteristics. If I may

0:15:19.659 --> 0:15:20.369
<v Speaker 2>throw one more

0:15:20.469 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 2>safe haven, you can even think of investment grade highly

0:15:24.450 --> 0:15:28.159
<v Speaker 2>rated corporate bonds, right? As to some extent offering you

0:15:28.169 --> 0:15:30.989
<v Speaker 2>safe passage as well. Ok. So for example, if you

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.309
<v Speaker 2>buy a bond and the bond says a 10 out

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 2>of five years and it's a good bond, it's a

0:15:35.289 --> 0:15:37.950
<v Speaker 2>good company with a very strong balance sheet, right? The

0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.710
<v Speaker 2>possibility of default is quite low, right? So if you

0:15:41.719 --> 0:15:45.330
<v Speaker 2>hold that bond till maturity, right, what happens is that

0:15:45.340 --> 0:15:47.479
<v Speaker 2>you continue to clip the coupon or the yield on

0:15:47.489 --> 0:15:47.890
<v Speaker 2>the bond

0:15:48.169 --> 0:15:50.869
<v Speaker 2>and then on maturity, the the company doesn't go bust

0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.669
<v Speaker 2>you get your money back. Ok. Right. So the key

0:15:53.679 --> 0:15:57.090
<v Speaker 2>thing here is the company has to be of sound fundamentals,

0:15:57.099 --> 0:15:59.049
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't go bust, you get your money back. So

0:15:59.059 --> 0:16:01.969
<v Speaker 2>if you put your money into strong companies, very strong

0:16:01.979 --> 0:16:04.890
<v Speaker 2>companies with strong balance sheets, what we call investment grade bonds, right,

0:16:04.909 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 2>then you know, the good chance of you getting your

0:16:06.849 --> 0:16:08.559
<v Speaker 2>money back at the end of the tenner. But of course,

0:16:08.570 --> 0:16:09.469
<v Speaker 2>along the way,

0:16:09.890 --> 0:16:11.710
<v Speaker 2>the price of these bonds may go up and down.

0:16:11.719 --> 0:16:15.030
<v Speaker 2>But if you're holding it till the end, then you

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.770
<v Speaker 2>get your money back. Do they tend to be from

0:16:17.780 --> 0:16:21.750
<v Speaker 2>specific sectors? Not necessarily, it is very company specific, you

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.260
<v Speaker 2>can go down to looking at the company and seeing

0:16:23.270 --> 0:16:25.549
<v Speaker 2>whether you know it's got a very strong balance sheet,

0:16:25.719 --> 0:16:27.469
<v Speaker 2>whether it's got a lot of cash in his books,

0:16:27.575 --> 0:16:30.744
<v Speaker 2>whether it's got a low debt level or debt to

0:16:30.755 --> 0:16:32.854
<v Speaker 2>equity ratio in his book, whether it's in a business

0:16:32.864 --> 0:16:36.275
<v Speaker 2>that is relatively stable, able to send economic downturns. And

0:16:36.284 --> 0:16:38.255
<v Speaker 2>there are companies like that out there. Now, the difference

0:16:38.265 --> 0:16:40.195
<v Speaker 2>between buying a bond like this, say with a five

0:16:40.205 --> 0:16:43.065
<v Speaker 2>year tender and buying a stock with over a five

0:16:43.075 --> 0:16:44.755
<v Speaker 2>year horizon is that you can buy a stock at

0:16:44.765 --> 0:16:46.924
<v Speaker 2>the dollar. But at the end of five years, it's

0:16:46.934 --> 0:16:49.304
<v Speaker 2>possible the stock will be 60 cents and there's no

0:16:49.315 --> 0:16:50.875
<v Speaker 2>light at the end of the tunnel because you don't

0:16:50.885 --> 0:16:52.164
<v Speaker 2>know when the 60 cents is going to go back

0:16:52.174 --> 0:16:55.114
<v Speaker 2>to up to the bond. At the end of that

0:16:55.125 --> 0:16:55.905
<v Speaker 2>five year 10,

0:16:56.479 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 2>you get your money back. So at least at least

0:16:59.210 --> 0:17:02.469
<v Speaker 2>your money back and that contingent on the company staying afloat.

0:17:02.479 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>So again, you can, in some ways, if you're prepared

0:17:05.050 --> 0:17:08.609
<v Speaker 2>to whole tail maturity of a bond, then I think

0:17:08.619 --> 0:17:11.449
<v Speaker 2>you can also see it to some degree as a safe,

0:17:11.660 --> 0:17:14.959
<v Speaker 2>fascinating. I didn't think of corporate bonds as a safe

0:17:14.969 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>haven asset, but I think it's something to watch for sure. Yeah,

0:17:17.699 --> 0:17:21.109
<v Speaker 2>investment grade bonds. So, back to current CEO, so you

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 2>talked pretty extensively about the Japanese Yen and we all

0:17:23.890 --> 0:17:26.290
<v Speaker 2>know that it's a very attractive investment right now. What

0:17:26.300 --> 0:17:26.599
<v Speaker 2>about

0:17:27.199 --> 0:17:29.670
<v Speaker 2>the Swiss Franc? And I think in general, what I

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.500
<v Speaker 2>want to know is why do these currencies? The US

0:17:33.510 --> 0:17:37.310
<v Speaker 2>D also is considered a safe haven investment. The Swiss franc,

0:17:37.319 --> 0:17:39.770
<v Speaker 2>as you say, why are these safest currencies in the

0:17:39.780 --> 0:17:42.300
<v Speaker 2>world to invest in in the first place for quite

0:17:42.310 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>a number of reasons? Number one, in the case of

0:17:44.530 --> 0:17:48.020
<v Speaker 2>the Swiss government, it's relatively stable. You have political stability

0:17:48.030 --> 0:17:49.959
<v Speaker 2>in Switzerland, right. Number two, I think

0:17:50.079 --> 0:17:53.380
<v Speaker 2>you have a Switzerland that is politically independent generally. So

0:17:53.390 --> 0:17:55.500
<v Speaker 2>it is not plugged in to some extent in the

0:17:55.510 --> 0:17:58.810
<v Speaker 2>global political turmoil. It stands on its own. It takes

0:17:58.819 --> 0:18:01.849
<v Speaker 2>a stand that is neutral, independent. What about the Switzerland

0:18:01.859 --> 0:18:04.390
<v Speaker 2>of Asia? Singapore? Well, you know, I mean, exactly, I

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.199
<v Speaker 2>was going to come to that, you know, eventually that's

0:18:06.209 --> 0:18:09.270
<v Speaker 2>something that we sometimes see as a safe haven as well.

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.489
<v Speaker 2>So Singapore government bonds are pretty good safe haven in

0:18:12.500 --> 0:18:13.020
<v Speaker 2>my view

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.160
<v Speaker 2>because, you know, the government has got solid balance sheet.

0:18:16.250 --> 0:18:19.140
<v Speaker 2>We've got good political stability over here. So that's something

0:18:19.150 --> 0:18:21.069
<v Speaker 2>to think about. And of course, you know, some people

0:18:21.079 --> 0:18:23.959
<v Speaker 2>even see the Singapore stock market as a safe haven

0:18:23.969 --> 0:18:28.010
<v Speaker 2>among other stock markets because you don't see the extreme

0:18:28.020 --> 0:18:30.150
<v Speaker 2>volatility in the Singapore stock market that you see in

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.468
<v Speaker 2>other stock market. It's almost as if a boring day here.

0:18:32.479 --> 0:18:35.790
<v Speaker 2>It's a boring market. But, you know, if you're happy

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 2>with the yield that the market offers, you then, you know,

0:18:38.130 --> 0:18:40.629
<v Speaker 2>I think, hey, it's a market that you want to

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:41.599
<v Speaker 2>have in your portfolio because

0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.129
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't see the same kind of wild swings that

0:18:44.140 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>you see out of Chinese equities. Hong Kong stock market,

0:18:47.569 --> 0:18:50.989
<v Speaker 2>South Korean Taiwanese equities because it's a boring market, no doubt.

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:56.420
<v Speaker 2>But it offers you yield decent yield and relative stability again, relative.

0:18:56.430 --> 0:18:58.640
<v Speaker 2>But of course, the Singapore stock market is not as

0:18:58.650 --> 0:19:01.790
<v Speaker 2>safe as say a government bond, it does go up

0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.290
<v Speaker 2>and down and as long as investors keep that in mind,

0:19:04.420 --> 0:19:06.409
<v Speaker 2>then I think you can see that way. But in

0:19:06.420 --> 0:19:07.290
<v Speaker 2>the case of Switzerland,

0:19:07.530 --> 0:19:09.579
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's got a current account surplus like Japan,

0:19:09.739 --> 0:19:13.400
<v Speaker 2>its banking system is sound and solid. And the thing

0:19:13.410 --> 0:19:15.938
<v Speaker 2>about the US dollar Japanese Yen and Swiss Franc is

0:19:15.949 --> 0:19:18.829
<v Speaker 2>they are all very liquid currencies. What does that mean?

0:19:18.839 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 2>That means it's easy to buy and sell. They are

0:19:21.810 --> 0:19:24.670
<v Speaker 2>widely traded in global markets. And that's important,

0:19:25.420 --> 0:19:27.859
<v Speaker 2>Swiss Franc, even a Swiss Franc, it's a very popular currency,

0:19:27.869 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it's widely traded. And that's important because when you have

0:19:30.010 --> 0:19:33.680
<v Speaker 2>pension funds and big fund managers buying these currencies, they

0:19:33.689 --> 0:19:36.819
<v Speaker 2>don't buy in small amounts, they buy in billions. And

0:19:36.829 --> 0:19:39.050
<v Speaker 2>when they sell, they also need to sell in billions

0:19:39.060 --> 0:19:40.699
<v Speaker 2>and they need to have really buyers who are prepared

0:19:40.709 --> 0:19:42.859
<v Speaker 2>to take it off their books. And I think because

0:19:42.869 --> 0:19:43.239
<v Speaker 2>of that

0:19:43.430 --> 0:19:47.949
<v Speaker 2>these currencies are more liquid, more tradable. And so therefore

0:19:47.959 --> 0:19:51.179
<v Speaker 2>investors do see them as safe havens. The euro as

0:19:51.189 --> 0:19:53.649
<v Speaker 2>well is quite tradable. I was about to ask. But

0:19:53.660 --> 0:19:55.680
<v Speaker 2>the difference is in Europe, I think it's going through

0:19:55.689 --> 0:19:58.479
<v Speaker 2>a difficult period right now. Politically, it is going through

0:19:58.489 --> 0:20:00.869
<v Speaker 2>a difficult period. You don't have the political stability that

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.689
<v Speaker 2>you see in Europe compared to Japan Switzerland. And even

0:20:04.699 --> 0:20:07.089
<v Speaker 2>to some extent in relative terms, the US.

0:20:07.244 --> 0:20:09.714
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Right. Because in the US, even if a president

0:20:09.724 --> 0:20:13.194
<v Speaker 2>comes to power, he's checked by Congress, there's a check

0:20:13.204 --> 0:20:15.594
<v Speaker 2>and balance in place. He doesn't have a plan check,

0:20:15.604 --> 0:20:17.915
<v Speaker 2>a free hand. So he doesn't have a free play

0:20:17.954 --> 0:20:20.104
<v Speaker 2>in Europe is different. You have the Ukraine war happening

0:20:20.114 --> 0:20:22.734
<v Speaker 2>right now. You have populism on the rise. So you know,

0:20:22.744 --> 0:20:25.285
<v Speaker 2>the investors don't see the Euro as a safe haven.

0:20:25.295 --> 0:20:28.574
<v Speaker 2>Got it, got it. Ok. So how do I invest

0:20:28.584 --> 0:20:30.854
<v Speaker 2>in currencies? And should I be hoarding

0:20:31.130 --> 0:20:34.448
<v Speaker 2>the Japanese Yen, the Swiss franc in a multi currency account,

0:20:34.459 --> 0:20:36.869
<v Speaker 2>for example. Well, there are various ways, I mean, what

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.889
<v Speaker 2>you just highlighted is one way to invest some of

0:20:38.900 --> 0:20:41.170
<v Speaker 2>these currencies. Some would actually just go to the money

0:20:41.180 --> 0:20:43.929
<v Speaker 2>changer and change money. That's another way to do it.

0:20:43.989 --> 0:20:46.139
<v Speaker 2>I actually, you know, people do this. That's right. There

0:20:46.150 --> 0:20:48.708
<v Speaker 2>are platforms that allow you to buy and sell currencies.

0:20:48.719 --> 0:20:50.910
<v Speaker 2>So there are different ways. I think it's a matter

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.250
<v Speaker 2>of talking to advisor and finding out what you're comfortable

0:20:53.260 --> 0:20:56.438
<v Speaker 2>with and what the costs involved are for each of

0:20:56.449 --> 0:20:57.899
<v Speaker 2>these options. If I were to do it on my

0:20:57.910 --> 0:20:58.439
<v Speaker 2>own without a

0:20:58.545 --> 0:21:00.454
<v Speaker 2>financial advisor. What do I need to look out for?

0:21:00.464 --> 0:21:03.435
<v Speaker 2>I think with currencies, you've got to be a bit

0:21:03.444 --> 0:21:06.395
<v Speaker 2>more careful. Don't over invests in it because currency markets

0:21:06.405 --> 0:21:09.064
<v Speaker 2>are volatile. Although the Japanese Yen is a safe haven.

0:21:09.074 --> 0:21:11.064
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't mean that you won't see volatility in the

0:21:11.074 --> 0:21:14.025
<v Speaker 2>Japanese currency. It is not boring. It is. Well, it's

0:21:14.035 --> 0:21:16.305
<v Speaker 2>been on a downward trend which is why many of

0:21:16.314 --> 0:21:19.244
<v Speaker 2>us in Japan exploring it is a travel destination. So

0:21:19.255 --> 0:21:23.584
<v Speaker 2>it is not immune from volatility and downward drifts. So

0:21:23.594 --> 0:21:25.813
<v Speaker 2>I think you want to keep your exposure

0:21:26.180 --> 0:21:29.189
<v Speaker 2>to some of these currencies. Not significant minimal. Don't over

0:21:29.199 --> 0:21:31.699
<v Speaker 2>invest in it. I think currency markets can be volatile

0:21:31.709 --> 0:21:35.949
<v Speaker 2>although we're quite positive in the Japanese. All right. Fantastic. Ok.

0:21:36.010 --> 0:21:38.619
<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to talk now about defensive stocks. So

0:21:38.630 --> 0:21:43.649
<v Speaker 2>you spoke briefly about stocks bonds, certain investment grade bonds

0:21:43.660 --> 0:21:46.879
<v Speaker 2>as well. I wanted to specifically talk about defensive stocks,

0:21:46.975 --> 0:21:50.036
<v Speaker 2>right? And they're known to be among the safer investments

0:21:50.046 --> 0:21:54.666
<v Speaker 2>to make. What exactly is a defensive stock, the characteristics

0:21:54.676 --> 0:21:57.145
<v Speaker 2>of it, which sectors they tend to be in. And

0:21:57.156 --> 0:22:01.336
<v Speaker 2>more importantly, why are they? I won't say safe but

0:22:01.345 --> 0:22:04.985
<v Speaker 2>safer than other stocks. I think it's difficult to generalize

0:22:04.994 --> 0:22:07.696
<v Speaker 2>in terms of sectors, but I think defensive

0:22:07.852 --> 0:22:10.941
<v Speaker 2>stocks will be companies with strong balance sheets. Ok. When

0:22:10.952 --> 0:22:12.620
<v Speaker 2>I mean, strong balance sheets, I mean, they've got to

0:22:12.631 --> 0:22:15.511
<v Speaker 2>have a sizable amount of cash on their balance sheet

0:22:15.561 --> 0:22:17.952
<v Speaker 2>they got very low levels of debt that makes them

0:22:17.962 --> 0:22:23.331
<v Speaker 2>less vulnerable to economic downturns. Ideally, they have a strong

0:22:23.342 --> 0:22:27.212
<v Speaker 2>market share in whatever industry they are in big market

0:22:27.222 --> 0:22:28.631
<v Speaker 2>share in whatever industry they are in.

0:22:29.109 --> 0:22:32.589
<v Speaker 2>And perhaps to some extent, they have some degree of

0:22:32.599 --> 0:22:35.540
<v Speaker 2>following from global fund managers. In other words, they are,

0:22:35.599 --> 0:22:37.438
<v Speaker 2>they are blue chips, they are big companies to some

0:22:37.449 --> 0:22:39.530
<v Speaker 2>extent because they have a following and that provides you

0:22:39.540 --> 0:22:42.629
<v Speaker 2>with some degree of support, buying support to the tight turn.

0:22:42.910 --> 0:22:44.680
<v Speaker 2>So you put all that together. I think it makes

0:22:44.689 --> 0:22:48.170
<v Speaker 2>for defensive stock. They can come from different sectors, come

0:22:48.180 --> 0:22:50.208
<v Speaker 2>from the real estate sector, even

0:22:50.449 --> 0:22:53.420
<v Speaker 2>they can come from the telecommunication sector, health care as well,

0:22:53.430 --> 0:22:56.349
<v Speaker 2>health care as well. That's a fairly defensive industry. But again,

0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:58.709
<v Speaker 2>you have to go down to the devil is in

0:22:58.719 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 2>the details. You got to go and examine the balance

0:23:01.569 --> 0:23:03.469
<v Speaker 2>sheets of this company. So it takes a bit of research, right?

0:23:03.479 --> 0:23:05.938
<v Speaker 2>Don't just get drawn into healthcare because it's healthcare. You

0:23:05.949 --> 0:23:07.930
<v Speaker 2>got to look at the company, it's involving as well.

0:23:07.939 --> 0:23:11.300
<v Speaker 2>For example, if you're buying into a biotech company, that's

0:23:11.310 --> 0:23:13.770
<v Speaker 2>in the healthcare space, that can be quite risky. Yeah,

0:23:13.780 --> 0:23:17.069
<v Speaker 2>because there is some degree of innovation and risk, whatever

0:23:17.079 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>they are

0:23:17.810 --> 0:23:20.500
<v Speaker 2>venturing into may not bear fruit. And we've seen that

0:23:20.510 --> 0:23:23.260
<v Speaker 2>during the pandemic or rather just coming out of the pandemic,

0:23:23.270 --> 0:23:26.520
<v Speaker 2>there were pandemic darlings because they had to manufacture those vaccines.

0:23:26.530 --> 0:23:28.119
<v Speaker 2>But when those vaccines were out,

0:23:28.500 --> 0:23:30.849
<v Speaker 2>the share prices just started to fall. That's right. So

0:23:30.859 --> 0:23:32.420
<v Speaker 2>you got to be careful as well. You want to

0:23:32.430 --> 0:23:37.050
<v Speaker 2>buy companies where the business is steady state staple businesses,

0:23:37.140 --> 0:23:40.890
<v Speaker 2>hopefully that will be needed in good times and bad times.

0:23:40.949 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>So consumer staples some degree of health care again, depending

0:23:44.050 --> 0:23:46.989
<v Speaker 2>on the individual. So a lot of factors go into.

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 2>But I think the key thing is this, do your research,

0:23:49.890 --> 0:23:51.750
<v Speaker 2>you got to learn how to read balance sheets. If

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.339
<v Speaker 2>not get the help from somebody, look at these companies carefully,

0:23:54.349 --> 0:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>talk to people. Don't be in a hurry to jump

0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:56.920
<v Speaker 2>in

0:23:57.329 --> 0:23:59.709
<v Speaker 2>head long. Do your research before you actually get into

0:23:59.719 --> 0:24:02.569
<v Speaker 2>these companies. And I think a good practice is actually

0:24:02.579 --> 0:24:05.260
<v Speaker 2>write down why you invested in the company based on

0:24:05.270 --> 0:24:07.790
<v Speaker 2>some of these parameters. Interesting practice is that something you

0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:09.770
<v Speaker 2>do as well? That's something I do. I write myself

0:24:09.780 --> 0:24:13.260
<v Speaker 2>a proposal. I mean, not a five page proposal job

0:24:13.270 --> 0:24:15.400
<v Speaker 2>hazard is, you know, you tend to write long. No, no, no,

0:24:15.410 --> 0:24:17.829
<v Speaker 2>I give myself maybe half a page. I tell myself why.

0:24:17.839 --> 0:24:18.160
<v Speaker 2>So that

0:24:18.750 --> 0:24:20.839
<v Speaker 2>I know why I've gone in. It's a discipline. It

0:24:20.849 --> 0:24:24.369
<v Speaker 2>forces you to put your thoughts down on paper and

0:24:24.380 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 2>it forces you to do the research. It forces you

0:24:26.410 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to do research and think through what you're doing because

0:24:28.290 --> 0:24:30.959
<v Speaker 2>sometimes we have blind spots. But when you start writing

0:24:30.969 --> 0:24:32.250
<v Speaker 2>it down, it becomes a bit more

0:24:32.829 --> 0:24:35.300
<v Speaker 2>difficult to miss a blind spot. It forces you to

0:24:35.310 --> 0:24:38.099
<v Speaker 2>commit to it. Right. Also, like, why you have to

0:24:38.109 --> 0:24:40.589
<v Speaker 2>ask yourself why you're doing this, put pen to paper

0:24:40.599 --> 0:24:43.270
<v Speaker 2>and then you realize, ok, something's missing here. I need

0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:47.069
<v Speaker 2>to address that. Exactly. So, it's a good habit, practice

0:24:47.079 --> 0:24:49.979
<v Speaker 2>a dog and something that the listeners can think about.

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely something I'm going to think about. I did. I mean,

0:24:52.650 --> 0:24:54.609
<v Speaker 2>it's old school, right? You don't think about it because

0:24:54.619 --> 0:24:57.099
<v Speaker 2>it's old school, but it works. There's a reason for it.

0:24:57.295 --> 0:24:59.175
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. So, you know, when you do that, then you

0:24:59.185 --> 0:25:02.895
<v Speaker 2>get a clearer picture of why literally a picture precisely.

0:25:02.905 --> 0:25:04.655
<v Speaker 2>So I think that's important and that's something that a

0:25:04.665 --> 0:25:06.194
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't do because what they do is

0:25:06.204 --> 0:25:10.764
<v Speaker 2>they see the investments in a modular fashion. Yes. So yeah.

0:25:10.775 --> 0:25:12.375
<v Speaker 2>So when we talk about safe havens is really about

0:25:12.385 --> 0:25:15.015
<v Speaker 2>protecting your downside. Yeah. So part of protecting your downside

0:25:15.025 --> 0:25:18.305
<v Speaker 2>goes beyond just buying safe havens, but also making sure

0:25:18.314 --> 0:25:21.535
<v Speaker 2>that you add an element of safety to your investment approach. OK.

0:25:21.829 --> 0:25:24.239
<v Speaker 2>That's a fantastic tip. That's going to be my key

0:25:24.250 --> 0:25:26.569
<v Speaker 2>takeaway from this conversation, not the fact that it's safe havens,

0:25:26.579 --> 0:25:29.780
<v Speaker 2>but I joke. So aside from going through my drawer,

0:25:29.790 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 2>counting my gold bracelets, checking on my Japanese saying, flipping

0:25:33.290 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 2>through my bank accounts,

0:25:35.439 --> 0:25:39.409
<v Speaker 2>where can I invest in safe haven assets? What platforms

0:25:39.420 --> 0:25:42.819
<v Speaker 2>are available to me? Do? I need necessarily to treat

0:25:42.829 --> 0:25:46.180
<v Speaker 2>them via a bank through a Robo advisor. I mean,

0:25:46.189 --> 0:25:48.819
<v Speaker 2>there are gold etfs now as well. I'm sure there

0:25:48.829 --> 0:25:51.869
<v Speaker 2>are currency etfs also to think about like, how do

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:54.159
<v Speaker 2>I go about doing this? Ok. I think you can

0:25:54.170 --> 0:25:55.909
<v Speaker 2>do it through various platforms. Some of the things that

0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:59.599
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned are the platforms that the listeners can think about.

0:26:00.140 --> 0:26:02.919
<v Speaker 2>We had O CBC allow you to actually

0:26:03.290 --> 0:26:07.500
<v Speaker 2>invest in gold through our digital app. And we've also

0:26:07.510 --> 0:26:11.229
<v Speaker 2>got a precious metal account at CBC on our Robo

0:26:11.260 --> 0:26:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Invest platform. And we're not the only ones. I mean,

0:26:13.609 --> 0:26:17.160
<v Speaker 2>there are other banks that also offer solutions that allow

0:26:17.170 --> 0:26:20.010
<v Speaker 2>you to invest in gold for those who want something

0:26:20.020 --> 0:26:24.219
<v Speaker 2>that's more tradable. For example, the Spider F that's listed

0:26:24.229 --> 0:26:26.619
<v Speaker 2>on the SGX, right? It's available both in sing dollars

0:26:26.630 --> 0:26:27.400
<v Speaker 2>and US dollars.

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.349
<v Speaker 2>That's something that has become quite popular. So there are

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.819
<v Speaker 2>various options out there. Similarly, for currencies, you talked about

0:26:33.829 --> 0:26:37.060
<v Speaker 2>a multi currency account or even putting your money into

0:26:37.069 --> 0:26:42.260
<v Speaker 2>a savings account, foreign currency savings account, buying currencies on platforms, right?

0:26:42.270 --> 0:26:45.479
<v Speaker 2>Non-bank platforms going through money changer, changing money, which is

0:26:45.489 --> 0:26:48.170
<v Speaker 2>what I've done partly with my Japanese Yen because my

0:26:48.180 --> 0:26:49.939
<v Speaker 2>plans are, you know, the next couple of years, my

0:26:49.949 --> 0:26:51.290
<v Speaker 2>holiday destinations are going to be Japan.

0:26:51.845 --> 0:26:54.234
<v Speaker 2>I've actually changed quite a bit of Japanese Yen in

0:26:54.244 --> 0:26:56.805
<v Speaker 2>preparation because if I don't use it at least I

0:26:56.816 --> 0:26:59.645
<v Speaker 2>hopefully get to benefit from price appreciation of the yen

0:26:59.656 --> 0:27:02.005
<v Speaker 2>as well. Yeah, that's a good tip for me as well.

0:27:02.015 --> 0:27:03.955
<v Speaker 2>I only have so many months to save up for Basu.

0:27:04.725 --> 0:27:07.855
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much for unpacking all of this, the world

0:27:07.865 --> 0:27:10.595
<v Speaker 2>of safe haven investments with me here on the money

0:27:10.605 --> 0:27:12.906
<v Speaker 2>talks podcast. You've been a great help. I'm gonna, I'm

0:27:12.916 --> 0:27:14.765
<v Speaker 2>gonna write down my investment proposals now.

0:27:15.161 --> 0:27:17.501
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for that tip and a big thank you to

0:27:17.511 --> 0:27:20.171
<v Speaker 2>you too. Listener. If you like this episode, you got

0:27:20.182 --> 0:27:22.942
<v Speaker 2>to show it, leave us a comment or a rating

0:27:22.952 --> 0:27:25.811
<v Speaker 2>on wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to

0:27:25.821 --> 0:27:29.251
<v Speaker 2>find us, we're streaming on Apple podcasts and Spotify as

0:27:29.261 --> 0:27:32.751
<v Speaker 2>well as youtube. The team of Money Talks is made

0:27:32.761 --> 0:27:36.761
<v Speaker 2>up of Joanne Chan, Tiffany, Christina Roberts. You win and

0:27:36.771 --> 0:27:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea P.