1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,259 Speaker 1: This is a C N. A podcast. 2 00:00:06,340 --> 00:00:08,540 Speaker 1: We do love our cars in Singapore and you know, 3 00:00:08,539 --> 00:00:11,190 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to find a car on our roads 4 00:00:11,190 --> 00:00:14,380 Speaker 1: that is more than 10 years old. Well that is 5 00:00:14,380 --> 00:00:17,380 Speaker 1: unless you see me driving by in my 51 year 6 00:00:17,380 --> 00:00:20,420 Speaker 1: old Mercedes and I guess you can say that's thanks 7 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: or for some perhaps no thanks to the unique C. O. 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,050 Speaker 1: E or Certificate of Entitlement system, 9 00:00:26,140 --> 00:00:29,330 Speaker 1: which Singapore has had in place since 1990. The aim 10 00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:31,010 Speaker 1: of the C. O. E was to limit the growth 11 00:00:31,010 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: of the vehicle population in Singapore, one of the densest 12 00:00:34,170 --> 00:00:34,750 Speaker 1: in the world 13 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,370 Speaker 1: and over the years we've had no choice but to 14 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: accept that owning a car in Singapore is not an 15 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: affordable expense and actually it got even more expensive very recently. 16 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:48,489 Speaker 1: Just a few days back C. O. E premiums for 17 00:00:48,490 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: the open category. Hit an all time high of wait 18 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:57,630 Speaker 1: for this $114,000. Breaking the previous record from the last 19 00:00:57,630 --> 00:01:00,550 Speaker 1: bidding exercise by almost $3500. 20 00:01:00,940 --> 00:01:03,700 Speaker 1: Obviously, this has prompted a round of protests. Many people 21 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:06,569 Speaker 1: are thinking, how can I be paying so much for 22 00:01:06,580 --> 00:01:10,149 Speaker 1: a piece of paper for just 10 years? Well, this 23 00:01:10,150 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: week we pop the hood to explore what the C. O. E. 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,130 Speaker 1: System does for car ownership in Singapore, whether it remains 25 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:17,350 Speaker 1: relevant and 26 00:01:17,740 --> 00:01:21,460 Speaker 1: what factors have changed since it was first introduced 27 00:01:25,140 --> 00:01:29,460 Speaker 1: with me to rev up the conversation. Assistant Professor Terence 28 00:01:29,459 --> 00:01:33,610 Speaker 1: fan of the Singapore Management University. Hello, thank you. Thank 29 00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:36,380 Speaker 1: you for inviting me. We also have Arthur Wong managing 30 00:01:36,380 --> 00:01:40,660 Speaker 1: director at ACM automobiles? Hi everyone. It's a pleasure to 31 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:41,060 Speaker 1: be here. 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,700 Speaker 1: And Aaron Tan, Ceo of Startup, an online car marketplace. 33 00:01:46,709 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: Hi steve. Thanks for having me today. Looking forward to 34 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,050 Speaker 2: the discussion. 35 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,570 Speaker 1: Well gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us here. 36 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:56,270 Speaker 1: Let me open the discussion by asking if the all 37 00:01:56,270 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: time C. O. E prices the ones we just heard 38 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: about the $114,000. Is it a big surprise to any 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,930 Speaker 1: of you? The last time prices were so high was 40 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: back in like 2012 2013. 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 1: In the meantime we've been hit with a pandemic. There's 42 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: been inflation. Arthur, why don't you take a crack at this? 43 00:02:11,530 --> 00:02:13,550 Speaker 1: Do you think it's a fair comparison? 44 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,410 Speaker 1: I think it's a fair comparison. But as a matter 45 00:02:17,410 --> 00:02:20,690 Speaker 1: of fact right now we are actually on top of C. O. E. 46 00:02:20,690 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: We are paying a lot more on car prices these 47 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,030 Speaker 1: days because last time a R. F wasn't so high 48 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,980 Speaker 1: and now there's V. S as well. So it's double 49 00:02:29,980 --> 00:02:32,859 Speaker 1: triple whammy on car ownerships in Singapore. 50 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: It's like every acronym that comes along costs more towards 51 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,030 Speaker 1: the cost of the car. Terrence help us take a 52 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:44,549 Speaker 1: big picture out. Look at this. All countries levy taxes 53 00:02:44,550 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: and cars, but Singapore. C. O. E system is rather unique. 54 00:02:48,050 --> 00:02:50,690 Speaker 1: It's a very, I guess how would you say thick 55 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:51,850 Speaker 1: additional layer that 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,049 Speaker 1: makes cars very expensive. 57 00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: What is the main motivation of this system and has 58 00:02:57,570 --> 00:03:01,010 Speaker 1: anything changed over the years? Yes. So Singapore has a 59 00:03:01,010 --> 00:03:05,970 Speaker 1: unique system where we limit outright the number of vehicles 60 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:10,180 Speaker 1: that are allowed within the Singapore confines. And this is 61 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:11,650 Speaker 1: a system that works 62 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,590 Speaker 1: because we fixed the number of cars but we allow 63 00:03:15,590 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: the prices to vary and that's where the bidding comes 64 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,150 Speaker 1: into place and that's where we are allowed to see 65 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: stellar numbers. This is what we've just seen today in 66 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: terms of record C. O. E prices. This is an 67 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,430 Speaker 1: interesting system that has worked since the nineties. It breaks 68 00:03:34,430 --> 00:03:38,530 Speaker 1: down different vehicles by categories and then potential users would 69 00:03:38,530 --> 00:03:42,460 Speaker 1: like to bid for their specific vehicles in different categories 70 00:03:42,540 --> 00:03:45,050 Speaker 1: For as much as they want. So that is a 71 00:03:45,050 --> 00:03:47,820 Speaker 1: system that sort of produces these stellar numbers once in 72 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:50,830 Speaker 1: a while, but it also goes to like $2 a 73 00:03:50,830 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: car at some point. So it's some variability in that. Okay, 74 00:03:56,540 --> 00:04:00,190 Speaker 1: well erIN, I mean in your business you've taken things 75 00:04:00,190 --> 00:04:03,420 Speaker 1: a slightly different way using technology to put everything online 76 00:04:03,430 --> 00:04:06,550 Speaker 1: and not just in Singapore. So how does the C. O. 77 00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:09,710 Speaker 1: E system actually affect your bottom line and also looking 78 00:04:09,710 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: at all the private hire companies that have come in, 79 00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:15,860 Speaker 1: Are they also sort of affecting the entire ecosystem we have. 80 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,659 Speaker 2: First thing I would say is, you know, given the 81 00:04:17,660 --> 00:04:20,690 Speaker 2: fact that we operate in six countries now. Indonesia Thailand 82 00:04:20,690 --> 00:04:23,650 Speaker 2: Malaysia Singapore Taiwan and even in Japan, I would say 83 00:04:23,650 --> 00:04:26,969 Speaker 2: that used car prices have rose consistently across all the 84 00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:29,490 Speaker 2: markets that were present in today. And this is I 85 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:31,620 Speaker 2: guess in large part due to the fact that new 86 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:33,460 Speaker 2: car prices are more expensive 87 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:35,790 Speaker 2: new cars for that matter harder to combine than it 88 00:04:35,790 --> 00:04:38,659 Speaker 2: was previously given shortages and whatnot. 89 00:04:38,740 --> 00:04:41,529 Speaker 2: That's something that we are seeing consistently across now, coming 90 00:04:41,529 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: back closer to home in the context of C. O. E. Again, 91 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,210 Speaker 2: we were not very surprised when we saw, you know, 92 00:04:46,210 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: rising past 100 and 1000 $100,000 mark a couple of 93 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,020 Speaker 2: weeks ago. And from our standpoint, this is a pattern 94 00:04:52,020 --> 00:04:54,690 Speaker 2: that you can see even back in 2012 2011, of 95 00:04:54,690 --> 00:04:57,469 Speaker 2: course C O. E has rose to a completely different 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,540 Speaker 2: amount than it was back 10 years ago. But you know, 97 00:04:59,540 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: this is something that is entirely 98 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: expected, given the fact that we are slept with a 99 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,150 Speaker 2: few phenomenal, what happens is number one, you know, we 100 00:05:07,150 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: have more cast being re registered in the sense that 101 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:12,580 Speaker 2: we are being renewed more than it was previously in 102 00:05:12,580 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: prior years or 10 years ago or two decades ago, 103 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:16,660 Speaker 2: I think it's one big one. And so as a result, 104 00:05:16,660 --> 00:05:19,490 Speaker 2: there's definitely less than you know, today than it was 105 00:05:19,490 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: 10 years ago. 106 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,970 Speaker 2: No two, we continue to see demand right? And you 107 00:05:22,970 --> 00:05:24,550 Speaker 2: see demand today is not just 108 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,150 Speaker 2: from the consumer's point of view. It also comes and 109 00:05:27,150 --> 00:05:29,539 Speaker 2: stands from the PHP side of stuff. Right? So if 110 00:05:29,540 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 2: you think about, you know, all the grab and go 111 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: jek drivers out there, they do need a vehicle. Yes. 112 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,390 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of them are used for taxes. 113 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: But the truth is that that also increases the demand 114 00:05:38,490 --> 00:05:40,589 Speaker 2: directly to C O E in that sense. And the 115 00:05:40,589 --> 00:05:41,779 Speaker 2: last thing I would say is, you know, with a 116 00:05:41,779 --> 00:05:44,049 Speaker 2: lot more TVs coming up in the market, 117 00:05:44,140 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: we are seeing, you know, the triple whammy issues here. Right? 118 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,659 Speaker 2: I said, you know, reduction in C O E 119 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,590 Speaker 2: number one, number two increase in demand because of PHP drivers, 120 00:05:52,589 --> 00:05:55,130 Speaker 2: number three increase in demand because of E V. S. 121 00:05:55,140 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: I think prices being aware this today wasn't a big 122 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:58,860 Speaker 2: surprise to us. 123 00:05:59,240 --> 00:05:59,860 Speaker 1: Okay, 124 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,969 Speaker 1: from what you're saying, it really does sound like quite 125 00:06:02,970 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: a bit of demand and supply issues. So let's get 126 00:06:05,130 --> 00:06:07,229 Speaker 1: into the thick of things. I mean, just what exactly 127 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:10,529 Speaker 1: is causing these higher prices. If there is a limited quota, 128 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:13,730 Speaker 1: it's basic demand and supply prices will go up. Some 129 00:06:13,730 --> 00:06:16,620 Speaker 1: have said the country has also seen an influx of 130 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:19,860 Speaker 1: wealthy individuals. So not just your private hire vehicles. 131 00:06:20,029 --> 00:06:22,370 Speaker 1: These are wealthy individuals who are willing and able to 132 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: bid 133 00:06:22,940 --> 00:06:25,950 Speaker 1: and trends are showing that actually there's quite a good, 134 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: strong demand for luxury vehicles. 135 00:06:28,540 --> 00:06:30,750 Speaker 1: Arthur, what do you make of this is this really 136 00:06:30,750 --> 00:06:32,350 Speaker 1: a big factor in the scheme of things. 137 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:38,900 Speaker 1: Yes. Right now, people are more adapt to buying continental cars, 138 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:42,870 Speaker 1: more expensive cars, sports cars, The influx of foreigners. Yes, 139 00:06:42,870 --> 00:06:48,390 Speaker 1: they have driven the thirst for luxury vehicles. Yes, I 140 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,460 Speaker 1: totally agree with that. 141 00:06:49,540 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: Would it be more so than your private hire vehicles? 142 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: We just saw some recent stories in the news saying 143 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:56,950 Speaker 1: they've come out to say, no, it's not us. Don't 144 00:06:56,950 --> 00:06:59,260 Speaker 1: blame C. O. E prices being high on us. We're 145 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:02,310 Speaker 1: not the one who are over bidding. What do you think? Yeah. 146 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,620 Speaker 1: So it brings me back to the point that what 147 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:09,030 Speaker 1: determines the starting point of bidding? Who determines that? So 148 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:12,750 Speaker 1: this is the mystery in the C. O. E system. 149 00:07:13,140 --> 00:07:17,030 Speaker 1: I'm also quite curious to find out if everybody has 150 00:07:17,030 --> 00:07:19,270 Speaker 1: a chance to beat, everybody will be for a lower 151 00:07:19,270 --> 00:07:21,590 Speaker 1: price to start with. The amount that comes out at 152 00:07:21,590 --> 00:07:27,620 Speaker 1: 3 45 0 Okay, today's bid starts at 80,000 then 153 00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: it goes up. Yeah. Okay, so 154 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,900 Speaker 1: you're a bit skeptical of the numbers and how they 155 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:35,150 Speaker 1: are really coming about 156 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,700 Speaker 1: and the fact that seeing such high figures, you feel 157 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: it's intended to a certain extent there's an intention behind 158 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,290 Speaker 1: this to really force people to buy less cars. When 159 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: Celia was low, it was charlie for every single car 160 00:07:49,530 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: to be renewed in Singapore. I can see 161 00:07:51,740 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: Toyota Corolla Nissan Sani is being pumped in the new 162 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,410 Speaker 1: 10 years, a new lease of life, but right now 163 00:07:57,410 --> 00:08:00,090 Speaker 1: you can see no more of such things. Even like 164 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:03,270 Speaker 1: BMW 52 oh no, they're not going to renew Ceo 165 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,790 Speaker 1: because it makes no point in doing so is so 166 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,690 Speaker 1: poor guys who own the, and the Nissans, you just 167 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:12,810 Speaker 1: make them feel like, no, they were lucky that they 168 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:13,850 Speaker 1: can renew 169 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: at the right time and right now these vehicles are 170 00:08:17,890 --> 00:08:20,270 Speaker 1: pushing above their weight the last time they are studying 171 00:08:20,270 --> 00:08:24,330 Speaker 1: for probably 6000, probably 5000 deposition a year. Right now 172 00:08:24,330 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: they can command 8000. So they literally, they didn't lose 173 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,070 Speaker 1: a single cent, probably might make some money from it 174 00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: as well. So that's what I've been seeing in the market. Right, okay, 175 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,460 Speaker 1: and what do you think of that, Aaron, you were 176 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:37,660 Speaker 1: talking about private hire companies earlier 177 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:40,050 Speaker 1: and we said they've come out to say they haven't 178 00:08:40,050 --> 00:08:42,860 Speaker 1: been aggressively bidding. What then 179 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,550 Speaker 1: is their role in the scheme of things here, 180 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: let's just say that on a very high level what 181 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,729 Speaker 2: happens is that everybody had a part in this, right, 182 00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:52,380 Speaker 2: Even asked all the broader consumer, so to speak. There 183 00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:54,460 Speaker 2: is demand, there's no questions and then of course to 184 00:08:54,460 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: say that, oh, it was one of the PHP companies 185 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: that caused this is incorrect to say because 186 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,730 Speaker 2: the practice has changed entirely, if you just wind your 187 00:09:02,730 --> 00:09:04,790 Speaker 2: clock backwards like four or five years ago, it is true. 188 00:09:04,790 --> 00:09:07,150 Speaker 2: It's mostly driven by them, right, because if you look 189 00:09:07,150 --> 00:09:09,990 Speaker 2: in to see prices actually most of the class then 190 00:09:09,990 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 2: we'll beat it by then. 191 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,550 Speaker 2: But today that has shifted entirely, right? So, you know, 192 00:09:13,550 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: the powers of the PHP business itself has shifted from 193 00:09:16,929 --> 00:09:18,930 Speaker 2: the grab rentals of the world where by they own 194 00:09:18,929 --> 00:09:20,910 Speaker 2: their own cars to now, okay. You know what they're saying, 195 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: You know what, I don't really want to own these cars, 196 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,610 Speaker 2: Why don't you, you know, mr driver, why don't you 197 00:09:24,610 --> 00:09:26,020 Speaker 2: go and buy a car and then, you know, beat 198 00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:27,900 Speaker 2: for the series. So in that sense that has then 199 00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:31,630 Speaker 2: decentralized from that standpoint. So this PHP companies coming out 200 00:09:31,630 --> 00:09:33,670 Speaker 2: saying that they are not actually the cost of it 201 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,860 Speaker 2: is probably true, but to say that it is entirely 202 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:39,530 Speaker 2: nothing to do with the platforms is also incorrect, right? 203 00:09:39,530 --> 00:09:42,490 Speaker 2: Because the demand is definitely stoked by the fact that 204 00:09:42,490 --> 00:09:44,660 Speaker 2: there is demand for PHP vehicles, 205 00:09:44,740 --> 00:09:47,070 Speaker 2: There's a demand for great food deliveries and stuff like that. 206 00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 2: And so as a result, all these people are just 207 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,740 Speaker 2: doing their jobs, right? So, but they have indirectly caused 208 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:53,790 Speaker 2: the C O E to be higher, so to speak, 209 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,390 Speaker 2: because there are more people bidding for this car. And 210 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: I said we cannot pinpoint and say that there's only 211 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 2: one party I think in this particular case is just 212 00:10:02,330 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: the simple fact that there is more tv companies coming out. 213 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,870 Speaker 2: There are more people who want to try E V s, 214 00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:07,750 Speaker 2: there's also more 215 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,089 Speaker 2: people who want to drive ph V s there are 216 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:12,030 Speaker 2: also more people that just want to trade in their 217 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,660 Speaker 2: old 10 year old car and stuff like that? 218 00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:16,070 Speaker 1: So so in a way you're saying there's just overall 219 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: actually more demand for cars. I mean before grab drivers 220 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: Uber all these platforms came around that kind of a 221 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,380 Speaker 1: job never existed correct? The guy never thought of buying 222 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:26,940 Speaker 1: a car. Right? But now they have to simply because 223 00:10:26,950 --> 00:10:28,630 Speaker 1: deliveries are big business 224 00:10:28,770 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: and logistics has rose dramatically right when it was pre 225 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: pandemic and postman and that is another thing by itself 226 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,459 Speaker 2: that has really driven the CRE prices as well. 227 00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:39,930 Speaker 1: Okay, let me move on to the next question. So 228 00:10:39,929 --> 00:10:42,020 Speaker 1: we mentioned this earlier that more people are keeping their 229 00:10:42,020 --> 00:10:44,589 Speaker 1: older cars. You know, which means there are less number 230 00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:47,610 Speaker 1: of cars being deregistered and year on year. We've seen 231 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:53,500 Speaker 1: from over 100,000 in 2015 to only about 55,000 in 2021. 232 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: So people really are hanging onto their cars for much longer. 233 00:10:56,940 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: How does this actually overall 234 00:10:58,940 --> 00:11:03,270 Speaker 1: affect C. O. E. Prices. Arthur. Well, when people are 235 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,390 Speaker 1: holding onto their vehicles the lesser A. R. F. For government. 236 00:11:07,390 --> 00:11:11,710 Speaker 1: So it goes up then people wouldn't renew their ceo 237 00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:16,550 Speaker 1: is you were right 2015, they're lesser people renewing 238 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:23,589 Speaker 1: 2021. Probably PGP was around 110,000 people said last chance 239 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:27,089 Speaker 1: to renew before it spikes up. And right now it's 100,000, 240 00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: most people wouldn't renew Like if you ask me unless 241 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,429 Speaker 1: it's a very special car. Right? So in a way 242 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,140 Speaker 1: does this make Sioe prices higher or lower? How will 243 00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:40,860 Speaker 1: it affect them? Honestly this C. O. E. Price. 244 00:11:40,940 --> 00:11:43,010 Speaker 1: Yeah there are some people that says it's the cycle 245 00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:45,300 Speaker 1: you know there's lesser quota so price will go up 246 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: So when there's more quota yes this 247 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:51,020 Speaker 1: we all know but the ultimate figure like I said mystery. 248 00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:54,490 Speaker 1: Okay okay just to add a little bit so the 249 00:11:54,490 --> 00:11:58,110 Speaker 1: quota remains the same. But so what happens is that 250 00:11:58,110 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: for those people who used to own a car at 251 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,090 Speaker 1: the end of the 10 year period of the C. O. E. 252 00:12:03,090 --> 00:12:06,140 Speaker 1: They have the option to renew and then when they 253 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:08,460 Speaker 1: do renew they do have to pay 254 00:12:08,740 --> 00:12:12,510 Speaker 1: a premium that is somewhat of a formula and average 255 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,650 Speaker 1: formula of a recent C. O. E. Prices. So it's 256 00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:18,610 Speaker 1: not like those people who are renewing their cars don't 257 00:12:18,610 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: have to pay anything at all. They do have to 258 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,020 Speaker 1: pay somewhat close to the market rate and then depending 259 00:12:25,020 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: on how many cars that were not renewed or deregistered 260 00:12:28,740 --> 00:12:31,930 Speaker 1: then we have some leftover quotas and then that's a 261 00:12:31,929 --> 00:12:34,220 Speaker 1: quota that is up for grabs and that's where the 262 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:34,950 Speaker 1: auction 263 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:35,949 Speaker 1: comes in. 264 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: Okay so it's not like people who renew the cars 265 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: don't have to pay they still have to pay. It's 266 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,470 Speaker 1: just that the formula is not exactly the same as 267 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:46,290 Speaker 1: an average of some C. O. E. Prices. That's right. 268 00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: But overall it still becomes very much a demand and 269 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,610 Speaker 1: supply issue. Right? I mean, so we were saying there 270 00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:53,050 Speaker 1: are less cars leaving 271 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:56,300 Speaker 1: so therefore there are less new options available for people 272 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: to buy. 273 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,530 Speaker 1: Let's talk about electric vehicles because there's another interesting one 274 00:12:59,530 --> 00:13:01,940 Speaker 1: the government pushing very hard for E. V. S saying 275 00:13:01,940 --> 00:13:03,929 Speaker 1: by 2040 we should have a large number of them 276 00:13:03,929 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: on our roads. But all these cars they still require C. O. E. S. Right? 277 00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:12,950 Speaker 1: Does this actually change anything in terms of the overall system? Terence? 278 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:17,410 Speaker 1: Well, if we're thinking about people getting encouraged highly to 279 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:21,970 Speaker 1: change existing vehicles, the traditional, I see internal combustion engines 280 00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:26,220 Speaker 1: to an E. V. Then the turning for example, if 281 00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:28,550 Speaker 1: they are not ready to let go of the cost 282 00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:30,809 Speaker 1: but then they all of a sudden said, hey maybe 283 00:13:30,809 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: I should change my vehicle to an E. V. 284 00:13:33,140 --> 00:13:36,100 Speaker 1: Then it increases the demand at that point in time 285 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:36,890 Speaker 1: for the turn. 286 00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:40,850 Speaker 1: But if it's just replacing one car with another there's 287 00:13:40,850 --> 00:13:44,569 Speaker 1: no net change. There's no net increase in demand. It's 288 00:13:44,570 --> 00:13:47,900 Speaker 1: just replacing old one and then you're increasing one. In 289 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:50,429 Speaker 1: the meantime you may have a little bit of overlap. 290 00:13:50,429 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: It's like, oh I want to hang onto the old 291 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,050 Speaker 1: car until the day before I get my new car. 292 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,250 Speaker 1: Okay, so there is a temporary 293 00:13:57,340 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: Effect overlap because people want the assurance of doing that 294 00:14:01,290 --> 00:14:04,450 Speaker 1: but it's not a major effect. I would think it's 295 00:14:04,450 --> 00:14:08,450 Speaker 1: only when you have an influx of demand. So originally 296 00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:11,500 Speaker 1: let's say we have 100 people or companies wishing to 297 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,750 Speaker 1: buy cars. Now there's 101 298 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,780 Speaker 1: that is because of this 101 person or entity who 299 00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:21,190 Speaker 1: wants to buy a C. O. E. At whatever prices 300 00:14:21,190 --> 00:14:24,350 Speaker 1: that will push the overall zou prices out. 301 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,050 Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, you can blame the 100 302 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:31,730 Speaker 1: original car owners or you can pinpoint this is the 303 00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:34,020 Speaker 1: one new owner. I think it's very difficult. But as 304 00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:36,820 Speaker 1: long as you have that one extra person willing to 305 00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: pay 306 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:40,820 Speaker 1: that pushes the price up for all. I think that's 307 00:14:40,820 --> 00:14:44,290 Speaker 1: what we were talking about. So if you look at 308 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:47,780 Speaker 1: the statistics, even for the private high companies, if you 309 00:14:47,780 --> 00:14:50,570 Speaker 1: look at how many of them have actually placed bids, 310 00:14:50,580 --> 00:14:53,220 Speaker 1: if there's such data, you may find actually they don't 311 00:14:53,230 --> 00:14:55,670 Speaker 1: bid a lot, they don't need, you know, a lot 312 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: of bits. It's not that the number of percent of 313 00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:59,660 Speaker 1: bits that are 314 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:04,710 Speaker 1: important is the overall demand and supply that actually changes 315 00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: the price. But Terrence, what I do take away from 316 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,610 Speaker 1: what you're saying is one key thing that in fact, 317 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,300 Speaker 1: CVS may actually almost create extra false demand for C. O. E. 318 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,910 Speaker 1: S in the short term because some people who are 319 00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:19,450 Speaker 1: transitioning will have two cars right 320 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: before they let go of their 321 00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:23,690 Speaker 1: older car, they want to buy a new car first. 322 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:26,220 Speaker 1: So in a way, is that even worse in the 323 00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: scheme of things? Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether 324 00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: actually people do that, but I think people do prefer 325 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,359 Speaker 1: to have some continuity of the ownership so it may 326 00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: for the temporary basis create a little bit of an 327 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,300 Speaker 1: extra demand. I would think however, this demand will at 328 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:46,220 Speaker 1: some point dissipate right. It's unclear why people want to 329 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:49,650 Speaker 1: renew at prices at 50,000 and now all of a 330 00:15:49,650 --> 00:15:53,230 Speaker 1: sudden they will still continue to do that at 100 k. 331 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,330 Speaker 1: You know, with the same level of demand and enthusiasm. 332 00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:58,460 Speaker 1: So I would think with the higher prices 333 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,470 Speaker 1: that urge to renew and change in tv would somewhat 334 00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:05,260 Speaker 1: subside unless you have really deep pockets. 335 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: Here's a crazy idea. Would it make sense if we 336 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,390 Speaker 1: allow people to convert their C O. E. S from 337 00:16:11,390 --> 00:16:14,010 Speaker 1: their older car to a newer car? I've had a 338 00:16:14,010 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: car for five years, I want to change to another car, 339 00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:18,590 Speaker 1: let me use it for the next five years on 340 00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:22,370 Speaker 1: the newer car. That way we have more efficient effective 341 00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:23,620 Speaker 1: modern cars on our roads 342 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: without really increasing the overall demand. Does that make sense? 343 00:16:27,970 --> 00:16:28,750 Speaker 1: What do you guys think? 344 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,700 Speaker 1: First and foremost, there are different categories of C. O. E. 345 00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:36,430 Speaker 1: Right now, I'm using a low horsepower car and I 346 00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: want to change to a higher horsepower car above 100 347 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,740 Speaker 1: and 38 horsepower. I cannot because it's your crossing categories. 348 00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:43,970 Speaker 1: I think that one 349 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:45,270 Speaker 1: a little bit tricky. 350 00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:49,020 Speaker 1: Well putting all that aside, assuming policymakers can work out 351 00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:51,450 Speaker 1: the top up fees or whatever, you know I mean? 352 00:16:51,450 --> 00:16:54,220 Speaker 1: But the overall premise that if it's really about demand 353 00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:57,410 Speaker 1: and supply, why not allow people to just use the 354 00:16:57,410 --> 00:17:00,660 Speaker 1: existing C. O. E. Maybe you're allowed three C. O. 355 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:02,380 Speaker 1: S in your lifetime and you can use it on 356 00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:05,270 Speaker 1: any car you want? Do you think that would 357 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,500 Speaker 1: change the way we approach the demand of it? And 358 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:11,050 Speaker 1: maybe even that would affect overall prices. 359 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,060 Speaker 1: If we only allowed three C. O. E. S in 360 00:17:14,060 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: our whole life, then it's gonna be bloody expensive because 361 00:17:18,609 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: I've seen people having eight cars in their garage, you 362 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,460 Speaker 1: know what I mean? They'll probably buy your quota as well. 363 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:26,460 Speaker 1: But that is exactly what 364 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:28,820 Speaker 1: this is meant to avoid, right? The whole idea is 365 00:17:28,830 --> 00:17:31,330 Speaker 1: unfortunately Singapore is not a place where if you're a 366 00:17:31,330 --> 00:17:34,100 Speaker 1: car collector, this is not the place to be. Indeed. 367 00:17:34,109 --> 00:17:37,740 Speaker 1: We're saying cars are for people who ideally really needed. 368 00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:39,890 Speaker 1: I mean, we just talked about inflation last week, a 369 00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:41,609 Speaker 1: lot of the middle class seems to be feeling it 370 00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:45,450 Speaker 1: the most they have elderly family members, young Children, often, some, 371 00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:47,889 Speaker 1: even with special needs. So these are actually the people 372 00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: who need the vehicles the most, but yet they say 373 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: it's the most out of reach for them. 374 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: If you cannot afford it, you can't drive. That's the 375 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,590 Speaker 1: whole idea behind this to price people out of a car. 376 00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:59,859 Speaker 1: But 377 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,699 Speaker 1: do you guys feel that this is right? Should car 378 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:07,210 Speaker 1: ownership be aspirational? When in reality, for some people it 379 00:18:07,210 --> 00:18:10,669 Speaker 1: is actually really a necessity. What do you think, Aaron? 380 00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 2: I think that if you're talking about special needs, situations 381 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,260 Speaker 2: and stuff, I do think that having a separate category, 382 00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:19,700 Speaker 2: for instance, for people who need to drive right, more 383 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,890 Speaker 2: than they want to drive, should be looked at differently, 384 00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: like how goods and trucks or even taxis for that 385 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,709 Speaker 2: matter belongs to a separate category of C. O. E 386 00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:29,500 Speaker 2: by itself. I think that could be discussed, I guess, 387 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,379 Speaker 2: you know, that's not up to us to decide, unfortunately, 388 00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:33,970 Speaker 2: that's just more to the government. But let's just say that, 389 00:18:33,970 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 2: I don't think it's a bad idea at all right. 390 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,469 Speaker 2: You know, if you're talking about special needs, people who 391 00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: are priced out of this, though, I fundamentally think that 392 00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:42,220 Speaker 2: the C. O. E. System that we have here is 393 00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:44,619 Speaker 2: in equilibrium. Well, yes, of course, currently right now is 394 00:18:44,619 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: quite imbalanced, but, you know, if you believe in market forces, 395 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,770 Speaker 2: we believe in supply and demand on the invisible hand, 396 00:18:50,770 --> 00:18:53,420 Speaker 2: or so called less less so invisible hand these days, 397 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:55,389 Speaker 2: I do think that the market will go back to 398 00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: equilibrium and I think that supply and demand, we will 399 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,470 Speaker 2: take care of itself. Right? So from that standpoint, I 400 00:18:59,470 --> 00:19:02,330 Speaker 2: think there's really nothing too much to do from a C. O. E. 401 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 2: System standpoint. I don't think that it's it's actually a 402 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,859 Speaker 2: fair and just system 403 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: the way it is right now. 404 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:09,250 Speaker 1: But can it be further improved? I mean, so as 405 00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:10,260 Speaker 1: you mentioned, perhaps, 406 00:19:10,270 --> 00:19:11,379 Speaker 2: yeah, 407 00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:15,100 Speaker 1: each company perhaps based on your, I don't know, each year, 408 00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:16,820 Speaker 1: your P and L or something like that, you are 409 00:19:16,830 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: allowed a certain number of vehicles under a certain price. 410 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:22,670 Speaker 1: Families with Children below the age of 411 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,619 Speaker 1: 10 who have more than three Children, for example, are 412 00:19:25,619 --> 00:19:28,700 Speaker 1: allowed to eat at a certain price, something like that. Actually, 413 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: what 414 00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: I think what happens is that we're going to end 415 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,810 Speaker 2: up with people trying to game the system anyway. So 416 00:19:32,810 --> 00:19:36,190 Speaker 2: what's gonna happen is that the rich guys from 10 417 00:19:36,190 --> 00:19:39,770 Speaker 2: different people, even though he's like one year old at 418 00:19:39,770 --> 00:19:41,310 Speaker 2: the end of the day, you're gonna encourage all the 419 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: all the kind of things. That's why I think that 420 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,740 Speaker 2: the current way of being, you know, is open days 421 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:49,429 Speaker 2: and you know, it is the second is probably the 422 00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:51,659 Speaker 2: most efficient way from running auction standpoint. 423 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:53,980 Speaker 2: Everything that we do around it is maybe we increase 424 00:19:53,980 --> 00:19:56,230 Speaker 2: another category for special needs and stuff like that. That's 425 00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:59,139 Speaker 2: pretty much about it, right? Otherwise I think that, you know, 426 00:19:59,140 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: if you try to do things like this, but restrict people, 427 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,540 Speaker 2: what's going to happen is singaporeans are not stupid, They 428 00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: will just game it, right? I think that's what's gonna 429 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,100 Speaker 1: happen, 430 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: confirm, confirm. We can't go to that standpoint because it's 431 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,430 Speaker 1: going to be too complicated based on special needs or 432 00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:17,139 Speaker 1: Children or even income level is not going to help 433 00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:20,510 Speaker 1: it honestly, from a business man point of view, just 434 00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: give me 30 seconds I do import P I cars 435 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,570 Speaker 1: to come into Singapore 1st and 1st and foremost the customs, 436 00:20:26,580 --> 00:20:28,930 Speaker 1: then I put one side, one side. I'm just saying 437 00:20:28,930 --> 00:20:29,669 Speaker 1: C O E 438 00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:32,699 Speaker 1: I've seen friends with cars stuck because they ordered the 439 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:34,820 Speaker 1: car when silver is low and when the cars came 440 00:20:34,820 --> 00:20:37,190 Speaker 1: the ceo we went up you see. So there is 441 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,750 Speaker 1: is too volatile market. I mean if SEO is concerned 442 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: for even doing business, if I can vote, Sorry man, 443 00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: I'll just vote for like in the past above this 444 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,460 Speaker 1: certain CC or horsepower, you pay this price below, you 445 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:51,660 Speaker 1: pay one price. That's it. 446 00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:53,790 Speaker 1: That's the best way that I feel that it can 447 00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:54,170 Speaker 1: help 448 00:20:54,540 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: people who are buying cars. People who are selling cars 449 00:20:57,140 --> 00:21:01,050 Speaker 1: too much volatility is madness. Not honestly, no, it is 450 00:21:01,050 --> 00:21:03,190 Speaker 1: a fairly crazy idea and it will have a crazy 451 00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:05,290 Speaker 1: number of levels, but at the same time if we're 452 00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:08,869 Speaker 1: trying to make it more fair for people overall terrence. 453 00:21:08,869 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: What do you think? Is there a way we can 454 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: make the system more accessible to certain groups of people 455 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: who actually truly need it more. 456 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,290 Speaker 1: Yeah. So you see the series system is based on 457 00:21:18,290 --> 00:21:21,270 Speaker 1: the number of vehicles that are allowed and based on 458 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,430 Speaker 1: that we set the price. So maybe what we can 459 00:21:24,430 --> 00:21:27,270 Speaker 1: do based on what Stephen has suggested is maybe we 460 00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:29,740 Speaker 1: can have certain categories like if you have a wheelchair 461 00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:33,180 Speaker 1: bound person in your household for example you can still 462 00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:35,050 Speaker 1: bid is just that at the end of the day 463 00:21:35,050 --> 00:21:38,220 Speaker 1: maybe you take a discount of that. Maybe this count 464 00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:42,270 Speaker 1: could be 20% 50% or up 200% paying on the needs. 465 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,730 Speaker 1: So we can do that based on very limited cases 466 00:21:46,730 --> 00:21:49,340 Speaker 1: so that we can still see what the prices are. 467 00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:53,050 Speaker 1: But on the side we kind of give some subsidies 468 00:21:53,050 --> 00:21:57,090 Speaker 1: partial subsidies. It's partial because we still want these households 469 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,770 Speaker 1: and companies to feel the effect of price. 470 00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:02,580 Speaker 1: We don't want them to be completely eliminated. 471 00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:06,290 Speaker 1: But I think we would like where assistance is needed 472 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: if there's a genuine medical need or or whatever then 473 00:22:10,369 --> 00:22:13,030 Speaker 1: you know we court a little bit of assistance and 474 00:22:13,030 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: I think that may be more in line with what 475 00:22:15,170 --> 00:22:17,870 Speaker 1: we have because we sort of based on quota and 476 00:22:17,869 --> 00:22:20,730 Speaker 1: therefore we derive the price. So an easy way would 477 00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:23,050 Speaker 1: be to do this sort of discounting. 478 00:22:23,340 --> 00:22:26,619 Speaker 1: So it's not going to affect maybe authors level at 479 00:22:26,619 --> 00:22:29,310 Speaker 1: the car dealers because he sees the same everybody he's 480 00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:32,570 Speaker 1: just bits but then on the person who is actually 481 00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:35,149 Speaker 1: paying the C. O. E. Then there may be a 482 00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:38,460 Speaker 1: discount somewhere that I think you know it's possible. 483 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:41,580 Speaker 1: So in a way it's a bit like our C. D. C. 484 00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: Vouchers or GST rebates they say they give you 485 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,980 Speaker 1: those who are lower income who needed more. We give 486 00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:49,010 Speaker 1: you a bit more cash and then you can decide 487 00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:49,859 Speaker 1: how to spend it. 488 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:56,970 Speaker 1: Hi I'm Adrian Tan and I'm Christina robert. We are 489 00:22:56,970 --> 00:22:59,850 Speaker 1: the host of a new podcast called Working. We're here 490 00:22:59,850 --> 00:23:02,300 Speaker 1: to get into the essential things that no one tells 491 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: you about working and company culture from office politics to 492 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,710 Speaker 1: dealing with burnout if you've ever wanted to eavesdrop on 493 00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:11,170 Speaker 1: an interesting conversation by the water cooler. 494 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,250 Speaker 1: This podcast is for you look out for our episodes 495 00:23:14,250 --> 00:23:16,459 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. 496 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,010 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Singapore government's vision to go car lite. 497 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:24,250 Speaker 1: How do you guys feel about it? Can we really 498 00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:26,850 Speaker 1: get there? And where does the C. O. E. System 499 00:23:26,850 --> 00:23:29,750 Speaker 1: fit into all of this? Do you think at some 500 00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:33,030 Speaker 1: point maybe when we've cut down the car population by 50% 501 00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:35,770 Speaker 1: of what it is today, would we even consider removing 502 00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:36,770 Speaker 1: the C. O. E. System 503 00:23:36,940 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: a bit of crystal ball gazing here? But how realistic 504 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,449 Speaker 1: is this approach? 505 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,590 Speaker 1: All right. I think it will not happen because this 506 00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:48,340 Speaker 1: is good money for government. This is good regenerating. No 507 00:23:48,350 --> 00:23:52,430 Speaker 1: country in the whole world has this system to generate 508 00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:56,460 Speaker 1: money from your public last time I did my sums 509 00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: you can calculate again based on, 510 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,350 Speaker 1: on average how many quota is being given on a 511 00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:04,010 Speaker 1: bi weekly basis and what's the price and it's a 512 00:24:04,020 --> 00:24:05,940 Speaker 1: huge sum of money, I don't think it will happen. 513 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 2: Car light doesn't mean Karlis, this is that we just 514 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,620 Speaker 2: have to be great. I think what we can do 515 00:24:11,619 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: over time is to further reduce the COc prices 516 00:24:14,740 --> 00:24:17,909 Speaker 2: to further reduce the series quota, it will change too much, 517 00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: right to be honest. So I, I generally feel that 518 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,830 Speaker 2: the government will do what they want to do to 519 00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:23,669 Speaker 2: get C O E S or for that matter to 520 00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: get the vehicle population in the streets to a certain 521 00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:28,500 Speaker 2: optimal amount. But I do have to say this, you know, 522 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:31,590 Speaker 2: comparing Singapore to the likes of Jakarta or even the 523 00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:32,460 Speaker 2: likes of Bangkok, 524 00:24:32,740 --> 00:24:35,540 Speaker 2: we actually don't have too much of a traffic jam issue, right? 525 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:37,709 Speaker 2: And you know, given all these rush hours that we 526 00:24:37,710 --> 00:24:39,970 Speaker 2: have and sometimes we are jammed up for like 2030 minutes, 527 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: but we bit about this, 528 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,810 Speaker 2: the larger of this is that Singapore's productivity is not 529 00:24:43,810 --> 00:24:45,899 Speaker 2: really at stake, you know, given all these roads and 530 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:49,050 Speaker 2: stuff like that and the infrastructure fundamentally has really been 531 00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: created and that basically means that it needs to go to, 532 00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:54,140 Speaker 2: to use, if we don't use it, then I argue 533 00:24:54,140 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 2: that there is a further waste of taxpayer's money, so 534 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: to speak. So I generally, you know reject this claim 535 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: and this idea of being colors being car like I 536 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: mean look we can go further a little bit downwards 537 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,510 Speaker 2: but I don't see it being much further because by 538 00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:10,170 Speaker 2: going colors or for that matter going further down car 539 00:25:10,170 --> 00:25:13,230 Speaker 2: like will be really being very responsible to all the 540 00:25:13,230 --> 00:25:15,010 Speaker 2: money and and you know all the things that have 541 00:25:15,010 --> 00:25:17,270 Speaker 2: gone into for infrastructure costs, 542 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: okay, so it's almost like saying it's such a waste, 543 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: we build such a wonderful flyover and expressway but now 544 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,189 Speaker 1: there aren't enough cars to use it and make it worthwhile. 545 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: That's really true. That's exactly how the ministers in other 546 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,750 Speaker 2: markets looks like you know, one of our investors was 547 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: a former minister in other markets and he says that 548 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,510 Speaker 2: you know your business will do well in Indonesia or 549 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: talent or whatever because from the standpoint as a former minister, 550 00:25:38,890 --> 00:25:41,930 Speaker 2: you know they are building roads and then like thousands 551 00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:43,970 Speaker 2: of kilometers of roads and you know all those roads 552 00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 2: need to be filled up otherwise why did the government 553 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,859 Speaker 2: go and build all these roads? 554 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, 555 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,090 Speaker 1: okay, I just need to start wrapping up two questions 556 00:25:51,090 --> 00:25:53,580 Speaker 1: for each of you. Just very quick answers the first 557 00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:56,290 Speaker 1: one is if you could suggest one fixed to the 558 00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: currency system, you've got a magic one, you can change 559 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,070 Speaker 1: one thing tomorrow just like Thanos snap of your fingers 560 00:26:03,070 --> 00:26:05,950 Speaker 1: and the world changes, you know what would you change 561 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,060 Speaker 1: Arthur you want to start, I want to just cut 562 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:11,980 Speaker 1: this C. O. E. Building thing is just one fixed 563 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:16,020 Speaker 1: price for this cat and one fixed price for that cat. 564 00:26:16,030 --> 00:26:19,989 Speaker 1: That's what I feel it's the best for people. Okay, 565 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: I think for me I would just look at what 566 00:26:22,330 --> 00:26:27,060 Speaker 1: Arthur was saying about the initial suggested bid price 567 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,780 Speaker 1: that seems to actually trigger some secondary reaction in bidders 568 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,609 Speaker 1: That they say, oh the starting price is 8000 so 569 00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:36,470 Speaker 1: I got a bit more so I would actually try 570 00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:40,260 Speaker 1: to maybe experiment lowering that or maybe getting rid of 571 00:26:40,260 --> 00:26:44,070 Speaker 1: that but provide some guidance so that sort of hopefully 572 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:46,770 Speaker 1: will reduce some of the biases 573 00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: that that initial starting bid may actually cause the business. 574 00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:54,169 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for myself, number one is just keep 575 00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:56,490 Speaker 2: it simple, right? You know, and I think number two 576 00:26:56,500 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: really adding another category by itself especially, it might be 577 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 2: interesting so that we can make sure that really vehicles 578 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,260 Speaker 2: itself is more accessible, 579 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:09,340 Speaker 1: simplicity is bliss. Amen to that. Okay, one more final question. 580 00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:11,060 Speaker 1: If you are talking to a couple who want to 581 00:27:11,060 --> 00:27:13,090 Speaker 1: buy a car now, you know, a young couple were 582 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:15,169 Speaker 1: thinking I just might be able to afford a car. 583 00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: What kind of advice would you give to them? Arthur 584 00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:22,540 Speaker 1: just buy from me now, just kidding. Just buy one 585 00:27:22,540 --> 00:27:25,990 Speaker 1: car that fits the budget. I think it's important. I've 586 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,310 Speaker 1: been to the days of lending 100% loan to 15 587 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,790 Speaker 1: to 70% 60% I think responsible lending is important. I 588 00:27:33,790 --> 00:27:35,830 Speaker 1: just buy one that suits your budget and your needs. 589 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: I think that's the most important, Aaron, 590 00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:42,060 Speaker 2: I will buy a used car. Don't buy a new car. 591 00:27:42,540 --> 00:27:47,510 Speaker 1: Makes sense. Terrence, I would think actually consider public transport 592 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,550 Speaker 1: and use this car sharing services before getting a real car. Okay. 593 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,980 Speaker 1: But definitely there is a space for cars. Okay. Because 594 00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:02,020 Speaker 1: if you think about it public transport, you need certain 595 00:28:02,020 --> 00:28:05,510 Speaker 1: density to make that viable. So if you are trying 596 00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: to expand or live in places that are a little 597 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: bit further out from the densest part 598 00:28:10,340 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: at some point you will need a car. So there 599 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,210 Speaker 1: is a place for cars. I'm not saying there isn't, 600 00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:15,899 Speaker 1: there is. 601 00:28:17,140 --> 00:28:19,380 Speaker 1: Well gentlemen, I guess you know the way I see 602 00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:21,270 Speaker 1: it is if you have, you know, these are all 603 00:28:21,270 --> 00:28:23,490 Speaker 1: the acronyms, If you have a car, a C are 604 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:25,830 Speaker 1: you actually need to buy C O E and you 605 00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:28,670 Speaker 1: need to pay E R P. So like Terrence said, 606 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,310 Speaker 1: maybe it's just best to take the MRT. Okay gentlemen, 607 00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:35,209 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming and sharing your insights 608 00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:36,850 Speaker 1: on Cd prices and 609 00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: the scheme we have here in Singapore. 610 00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:41,020 Speaker 1: So I hope you've all learned a bit more about 611 00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: the C O E system in Singapore from my chat 612 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,250 Speaker 1: with Terence Arthur and Aaron, many thanks to them and 613 00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:48,750 Speaker 1: also to you for listening. If you've got any ideas 614 00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:50,940 Speaker 1: on what we should cover, do, get in touch with 615 00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:54,340 Speaker 1: us at c N a podcast at Mediacorp dot com 616 00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:57,660 Speaker 1: dot SG. Research for this episode 617 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,370 Speaker 1: Was done by Jackson, Chan and Audrey one. Our audio 618 00:29:00,370 --> 00:29:04,350 Speaker 1: engineer is Kendall Bridge and Podcast editor is Christina Robert. 619 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,060 Speaker 1: Until next time, I'm Stephen signing off. Bye for now.