1 00:00:00,270 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:04,989 --> 00:00:07,420 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. It's Stephen here and we're back for another 3 00:00:07,429 --> 00:00:09,829 Speaker 1: episode of Heart of the Matter. Now, at the start 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: of every year, a big part of the government's agenda 5 00:00:12,728 --> 00:00:16,540 Speaker 1: is the budget, which is essentially the plan that outlines 6 00:00:16,549 --> 00:00:19,878 Speaker 1: Singapore's priorities and how money will be spent for the year. 7 00:00:19,959 --> 00:00:23,020 Speaker 1: This year budget 2024 will be unveiled on the six 8 00:00:23,125 --> 00:00:26,075 Speaker 1: 16th of February, Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, who is 9 00:00:26,084 --> 00:00:28,524 Speaker 1: also the Finance Minister has said that he wants the 10 00:00:28,534 --> 00:00:32,384 Speaker 1: government to focus on the forward SG plan that includes 11 00:00:32,395 --> 00:00:36,744 Speaker 1: lifting lower wage workers, offering different paths to success and 12 00:00:36,755 --> 00:00:41,264 Speaker 1: supporting workers as they confront a very volatile business environment. 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,209 Speaker 1: Today, we're going to zoom in on a specific group 14 00:00:44,220 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: of people, those who are in their forties, their fifties 15 00:00:47,598 --> 00:00:51,220 Speaker 1: and finding that their jobs are at risk. What is 16 00:00:51,229 --> 00:00:54,389 Speaker 1: on their budget wish list as they navigate these choppy 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:54,939 Speaker 1: waters 18 00:00:57,229 --> 00:01:00,349 Speaker 1: with me to discuss this today. Ah Ching He Nan, 19 00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:04,649 Speaker 1: he is lead career coach at workforce Singapore or WS G. Hi, everyone. 20 00:01:04,660 --> 00:01:07,470 Speaker 1: It's great to be here. Gerald Tan, project director at 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,930 Speaker 1: Ada Solutions, a career guidance company. Thanks Stephen for having 22 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:13,300 Speaker 1: me on the show, Lai Yong Liang, who made the 23 00:01:13,309 --> 00:01:16,260 Speaker 1: career switch to be an urban farmer with gold bricks. Hi, 24 00:01:16,269 --> 00:01:18,010 Speaker 1: thanks for the invite and I'm glad to be here 25 00:01:18,019 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: with everyone. Thanks for joining us. Let's start by asking 26 00:01:21,129 --> 00:01:24,410 Speaker 1: Gerald Hing Nan. You've both been in the skills and 27 00:01:24,419 --> 00:01:26,250 Speaker 1: employment space for quite some time 28 00:01:26,580 --> 00:01:29,519 Speaker 1: now. According to the Ministry of Manpower PM ES made 29 00:01:29,529 --> 00:01:34,619 Speaker 1: up 64% of all employed residents in 2022. I gotta 30 00:01:34,629 --> 00:01:37,598 Speaker 1: admit that's surprising to me. And in my mind, this 31 00:01:37,610 --> 00:01:42,230 Speaker 1: group are quite vulnerable, especially to changes in technology changes 32 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:43,879 Speaker 1: in the economy, automation. 33 00:01:44,349 --> 00:01:46,669 Speaker 1: So maybe tell us J you wanna go first, what 34 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,250 Speaker 1: has changed in the employment landscape over the last 10 years? 35 00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:51,650 Speaker 1: And what worries you today over the last 10 years, 36 00:01:51,660 --> 00:01:54,099 Speaker 1: we started to see a lot of tech disruptions as 37 00:01:54,110 --> 00:01:57,129 Speaker 1: far back as about 2014, we started to see the 38 00:01:57,139 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: introduction of industry 4.0. 39 00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:01,819 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of changes. This has caused a 40 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:04,129 Speaker 1: lot of job roles to start to shift. A lot 41 00:02:04,139 --> 00:02:07,010 Speaker 1: of business models has started to shift companies started to 42 00:02:07,019 --> 00:02:09,690 Speaker 1: pop up and then many business lines start to close down. 43 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: It created a lot of noise around what the concept 44 00:02:12,809 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: of work and how work is going to change with that. 45 00:02:15,429 --> 00:02:17,309 Speaker 1: We started to see how people started to think a 46 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,410 Speaker 1: lot more about work as well. We started to wonder 47 00:02:19,419 --> 00:02:21,660 Speaker 1: about how should I upgrade my skills? Should I be 48 00:02:21,669 --> 00:02:23,130 Speaker 1: planning forward? And then 49 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:25,669 Speaker 1: we had COVID over the last few years and it 50 00:02:25,679 --> 00:02:29,758 Speaker 1: has really been another big step towards that change. People 51 00:02:29,770 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: are right now. They are still asking the same questions 52 00:02:31,649 --> 00:02:33,690 Speaker 1: about like, what do I do in my career? How 53 00:02:33,699 --> 00:02:36,369 Speaker 1: do I plan forward? So that term iron rice bowl 54 00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:39,130 Speaker 1: almost seems like a foreign concept nowadays because you shouldn't 55 00:02:39,139 --> 00:02:42,269 Speaker 1: expect it. Do you agree with? I think it's absolutely 56 00:02:42,279 --> 00:02:46,110 Speaker 1: correct that I don't think that Iron rice bowls concept 57 00:02:46,119 --> 00:02:49,050 Speaker 1: works today. My dad work on the first job until 58 00:02:49,059 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: he retired. You know, 33 years later, 59 00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:55,529 Speaker 1: the technology is what Jared has said is advanced so quickly. 60 00:02:55,750 --> 00:02:58,279 Speaker 1: If you are not able to keep up the pace, 61 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,220 Speaker 1: then you would likely to be affected because people are 62 00:03:03,229 --> 00:03:07,619 Speaker 1: expecting more people are doing more lately. We also noticed 63 00:03:07,630 --> 00:03:10,758 Speaker 1: that the generative A I also come into the picture. 64 00:03:10,770 --> 00:03:14,039 Speaker 1: A lot of technology company are trying to take advantage 65 00:03:14,050 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: of that. 66 00:03:14,779 --> 00:03:18,758 Speaker 1: Lately. We also see a slew of company doing layoffs, 67 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: not in Singapore alone, but on a worldwide basis. The 68 00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: challenge of today's PM ES are facing is how do 69 00:03:26,649 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 1: I keep up with all these changes? How do I 70 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:33,279 Speaker 1: skills upgrade as quickly with the relevant experience as possible? 71 00:03:33,508 --> 00:03:36,169 Speaker 1: So that is a challenge I'm seeing right now. That's 72 00:03:36,179 --> 00:03:37,990 Speaker 1: what we want to talk more about today because staying 73 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,619 Speaker 1: relevant in order to stay employed I guess that is 74 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:43,779 Speaker 1: the challenge. In fact, you talking about retrenchments. We keep 75 00:03:43,789 --> 00:03:46,509 Speaker 1: hearing about it from many of the big organizations mnc's 76 00:03:46,610 --> 00:03:50,259 Speaker 1: but in Singapore alone, mm reported that retrenchment had more 77 00:03:50,270 --> 00:03:51,839 Speaker 1: than doubled in 2023 78 00:03:52,139 --> 00:03:55,220 Speaker 1: more than 14,000 people were laid off. In fact, we 79 00:03:55,229 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: had Patrick Tay, the assistant Secretary General for NTUC just 80 00:03:58,130 --> 00:04:00,710 Speaker 1: here with us recently and he talked about how hundreds 81 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,550 Speaker 1: of workers in the electronic sector will also let go. 82 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:05,940 Speaker 1: So do you guys see more people coming to you 83 00:04:05,949 --> 00:04:09,500 Speaker 1: for career guidance? No, do they come to you when 84 00:04:09,509 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: they've been retrenched? What kind of profile? These are these 85 00:04:12,130 --> 00:04:15,750 Speaker 1: generally older workers over the years? Let's pick a horizon 86 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,910 Speaker 1: of 10 years. Initially, we see a lot of non 87 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,399 Speaker 1: PM et coming forward. 88 00:04:20,838 --> 00:04:23,539 Speaker 1: But lately in the last five years, we are seeing 89 00:04:23,549 --> 00:04:26,868 Speaker 1: more and more of the PMS. The trend is also 90 00:04:26,878 --> 00:04:29,908 Speaker 1: showing that they are more so called matured or mid 91 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:34,558 Speaker 1: career PM, meaning around 4050 years old are coming to 92 00:04:34,569 --> 00:04:35,289 Speaker 1: us right now. 93 00:04:35,559 --> 00:04:37,959 Speaker 1: Not only they are in between jobs, but some of 94 00:04:37,970 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: them feel that their jobs is not secured. They also 95 00:04:41,049 --> 00:04:44,219 Speaker 1: like to come forward to get early guidance to ensure 96 00:04:44,230 --> 00:04:47,130 Speaker 1: that they are able to stay relevant. Well, that's not bad. 97 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: At least they have the foresight in a way to 98 00:04:49,170 --> 00:04:53,540 Speaker 1: anticipate that possibly they might lose their job. Same for you. Definitely, 99 00:04:53,549 --> 00:04:56,899 Speaker 1: there's a lot more awareness because for PMT s the 100 00:04:56,910 --> 00:05:00,779 Speaker 1: opportunity cost is actually higher. They've got different kind of lifestyles, 101 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:03,380 Speaker 1: they've got maybe different obligations. If they are earning a 102 00:05:03,390 --> 00:05:04,190 Speaker 1: certain salary 103 00:05:04,415 --> 00:05:07,334 Speaker 1: for them to transit into another new role, they are 104 00:05:07,345 --> 00:05:09,915 Speaker 1: seen as a higher cost to the business. So the 105 00:05:09,924 --> 00:05:12,845 Speaker 1: options just become a lot more limited. So that's why 106 00:05:12,994 --> 00:05:16,114 Speaker 1: there's this sense of needing to prepare ahead, checking all 107 00:05:16,125 --> 00:05:19,445 Speaker 1: the options, whatever possible on top of their existing work. right? 108 00:05:19,454 --> 00:05:22,034 Speaker 1: Or if let's say been retrenched already, they really would 109 00:05:22,045 --> 00:05:23,834 Speaker 1: be in a situation where they had to find something. 110 00:05:23,934 --> 00:05:25,734 Speaker 1: But we are seeing a lot more of them, even 111 00:05:25,744 --> 00:05:27,734 Speaker 1: when they are in the work, when they are already 112 00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:29,613 Speaker 1: working now, they are starting to hear the noise, they 113 00:05:29,625 --> 00:05:32,394 Speaker 1: are seeing their friends being affected, they are wondering what 114 00:05:32,404 --> 00:05:32,844 Speaker 1: should I do? 115 00:05:33,269 --> 00:05:35,409 Speaker 1: In fact, that's how y you heard some noise or 116 00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: you felt some rumblings in the industry? Is that what 117 00:05:38,010 --> 00:05:41,940 Speaker 1: made you sort of switch? Yep. Especially with the advancement 118 00:05:41,950 --> 00:05:46,328 Speaker 1: of technology, administrative jobs has been actually digitized. Even marketing 119 00:05:46,339 --> 00:05:50,209 Speaker 1: jobs has been a I driven, even management decisions has 120 00:05:50,220 --> 00:05:52,250 Speaker 1: been done, data driven. A lot of jobs, right has 121 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:55,459 Speaker 1: been obsoleted. But of course, doing jobs will be created 122 00:05:55,678 --> 00:05:58,059 Speaker 1: and the existing jobs right has to be redesigned, 123 00:05:58,369 --> 00:06:01,988 Speaker 1: the disruptions, right is inevitable. So that's why I decided 124 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,079 Speaker 1: to actually rethink and red decide what I'm going to 125 00:06:05,089 --> 00:06:07,789 Speaker 1: do for the next half of my career instead of 126 00:06:07,799 --> 00:06:09,269 Speaker 1: waiting to be retrenched because 127 00:06:09,910 --> 00:06:12,618 Speaker 1: it always comes as a surprise to people, no matter 128 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:15,058 Speaker 1: how much you sort of know it may be happening. Right? 129 00:06:15,070 --> 00:06:17,630 Speaker 1: Retrenchment is not a pleasant experience. We did speak to 130 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: someone who was recently retrenched. His name is Sean and 131 00:06:20,049 --> 00:06:22,409 Speaker 1: this is what he had to say about his experience. 132 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:23,859 Speaker 1: Let's listen in, I was 133 00:06:23,869 --> 00:06:27,329 Speaker 2: retrenched just about a month ago. Came as a bit 134 00:06:27,339 --> 00:06:30,849 Speaker 2: of a surprise through the whole process of retrenchment. I 135 00:06:30,859 --> 00:06:32,570 Speaker 2: was told by my company that they were not in 136 00:06:32,579 --> 00:06:36,700 Speaker 2: a good financial position to pay any retrenchment benefits. I 137 00:06:36,799 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 2: I was told that there was no legal requirement for 138 00:06:39,170 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: them to do so because my a my contract didn't 139 00:06:41,290 --> 00:06:44,899 Speaker 2: have any stipulation and b there is no law from 140 00:06:44,910 --> 00:06:47,989 Speaker 2: the Ministry of Manpower or anything set in stone. You know, 141 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,420 Speaker 2: when you're told you're being retrenched, your whole world is shaken, right? 142 00:06:51,428 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: You've got to tell friends, family, colleagues, clients, it can 143 00:06:56,170 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: be very, quite distressing experience. On top of that, life 144 00:07:00,649 --> 00:07:03,230 Speaker 2: goes on. When you retrench, you still have bills to 145 00:07:03,238 --> 00:07:03,678 Speaker 2: pay 146 00:07:03,859 --> 00:07:06,390 Speaker 2: HDB, still gonna come at you and ask for its 147 00:07:06,399 --> 00:07:09,850 Speaker 2: monthly payments. You still have to feed the families. 148 00:07:09,859 --> 00:07:13,410 Speaker 1: You've just heard from Sean. How do you respond to that? Well, 149 00:07:13,420 --> 00:07:17,089 Speaker 1: I like to share with everyone that in my career. 150 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:21,869 Speaker 1: I was made redundant twice, twice. At 46 and 51. 151 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,959 Speaker 1: I do walk through that experience the anxiety while you 152 00:07:25,970 --> 00:07:28,929 Speaker 1: are in between jobs all this learning that I made 153 00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:30,730 Speaker 1: a lot of mistakes along my job search. 154 00:07:31,049 --> 00:07:33,809 Speaker 1: That's the reason why I decided to become a career 155 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:34,230 Speaker 1: coach 156 00:07:34,529 --> 00:07:37,540 Speaker 1: is my passion. And I come forward to try to 157 00:07:37,549 --> 00:07:43,290 Speaker 1: help all these affected people financially, emotionally stress level. All 158 00:07:43,299 --> 00:07:45,790 Speaker 1: this I walk through the same path. But the people 159 00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:47,670 Speaker 1: who are retrenched often feel that the burden is really 160 00:07:47,679 --> 00:07:50,420 Speaker 1: on them to get another job. But is that fair? 161 00:07:50,429 --> 00:07:53,230 Speaker 1: I mean, should companies be doing more? You know, as 162 00:07:53,239 --> 00:07:56,290 Speaker 1: what Sean has said is that it depends on the company, 163 00:07:56,299 --> 00:07:59,739 Speaker 1: of course, for the more established company, the MNC S 164 00:07:59,750 --> 00:08:02,190 Speaker 1: or even companies are very structured. 165 00:08:02,510 --> 00:08:07,260 Speaker 1: The hr function is strong, they would help the affected employees, 166 00:08:07,269 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: for example, the outplacement services, they will try to equip 167 00:08:11,170 --> 00:08:14,809 Speaker 1: them with the right skills, the right knowledge to improve 168 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:17,619 Speaker 1: their job search effectiveness. But try is the word it 169 00:08:17,630 --> 00:08:19,769 Speaker 1: is not mandatory, they're not legally. 170 00:08:20,019 --> 00:08:26,260 Speaker 1: That's unfortunately true. However, that's why workforce Singapore is here 171 00:08:26,299 --> 00:08:30,670 Speaker 1: to extend the assistance in helping them to walk through 172 00:08:30,679 --> 00:08:33,789 Speaker 1: this difficult period and equip them with the job search 173 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: skills so that improve their chances of reemployment. 174 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: But why would a company pay? I mean, when they 175 00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:41,590 Speaker 1: don't have to, it's not my contract. I don't owe 176 00:08:41,599 --> 00:08:45,299 Speaker 1: you anything for companies to offer a package is currently 177 00:08:45,309 --> 00:08:47,460 Speaker 1: on a goodwill basis. Some of them may have it 178 00:08:47,469 --> 00:08:49,590 Speaker 1: written in their, in a contract. Some of them might 179 00:08:49,599 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: not have been but 180 00:08:50,890 --> 00:08:54,299 Speaker 1: because it's not a legal requirement, it's really a lot 181 00:08:54,309 --> 00:08:57,789 Speaker 1: goes into the goodwill of the company. And how if today, like, 182 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:00,809 Speaker 1: for example, what has happened recently in Singapore, if some 183 00:09:00,820 --> 00:09:03,039 Speaker 1: of these bad press goes out, you know, there will 184 00:09:03,049 --> 00:09:05,619 Speaker 1: be a repercussion from the public, the social media space, 185 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:08,950 Speaker 1: the company's reputation loss is at stake. I mean, we 186 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,819 Speaker 1: are talking about Lazada, we know they've come 187 00:09:10,914 --> 00:09:13,835 Speaker 1: an agreement, they're working something out. But if nobody kicked 188 00:09:13,844 --> 00:09:17,114 Speaker 1: up a fuss, then all those people would have just suffered. Yes, 189 00:09:17,125 --> 00:09:19,724 Speaker 1: that's right. The unfortunate thing like what he was saying 190 00:09:19,734 --> 00:09:22,385 Speaker 1: is that there isn't that requirement. And in fact, even 191 00:09:22,395 --> 00:09:24,755 Speaker 1: if you've been working for a company, usually they would 192 00:09:24,765 --> 00:09:26,724 Speaker 1: say you have to serve at least a certain number 193 00:09:26,734 --> 00:09:29,525 Speaker 1: of years before you're even eligible. Two years, five years 194 00:09:29,544 --> 00:09:32,564 Speaker 1: before you can get a package. So the question then is, 195 00:09:32,575 --> 00:09:34,255 Speaker 1: should I have the mindset that 196 00:09:34,650 --> 00:09:38,049 Speaker 1: I expect nothing from the company? I know that one 197 00:09:38,059 --> 00:09:40,299 Speaker 1: day I may lose my job, it could come all 198 00:09:40,309 --> 00:09:43,070 Speaker 1: of a sudden and I should expect nothing. Should we 199 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,700 Speaker 1: go into life approaching that for all those who are 200 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:48,539 Speaker 1: now just starting out their career? There's one thing you 201 00:09:48,570 --> 00:09:53,809 Speaker 1: point it correctly or importantly, that career resilience is something 202 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:56,030 Speaker 1: that we put a lot of emphasis on. 203 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,890 Speaker 1: There will be help coming in from work for Singapore, 204 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:02,260 Speaker 1: from the government. But more important thing is about yourself. 205 00:10:02,390 --> 00:10:05,729 Speaker 1: How do you equip yourself. How do you network? How 206 00:10:05,739 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: do you improve your career, mobility or even career? But 207 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:11,539 Speaker 1: that also means every time I am at a job, 208 00:10:11,549 --> 00:10:14,159 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of possibly my next job too. Right. Because 209 00:10:14,169 --> 00:10:16,909 Speaker 1: I'm also a bit worried. Worry is one thing if 210 00:10:16,919 --> 00:10:19,179 Speaker 1: you are prepared for the change, always have, 211 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,650 Speaker 1: have the mindset that I'm open, I'm willing to learn, 212 00:10:22,659 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: I'm willing to upgrade myself. I'm willing to go out 213 00:10:25,609 --> 00:10:28,210 Speaker 1: and work with a lot of people. Even that the 214 00:10:28,219 --> 00:10:31,659 Speaker 1: X comes down, the transition period will be much easier. 215 00:10:31,669 --> 00:10:33,609 Speaker 1: You're still hurt. But you're saying maybe you will be 216 00:10:33,619 --> 00:10:36,549 Speaker 1: a bit better prepared. But yy, you were in oil 217 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,500 Speaker 1: and gas and during COVID, you decided to shift, right? 218 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,940 Speaker 1: What was the turning point? What made you decide 219 00:10:42,789 --> 00:10:45,829 Speaker 1: the turning point is during the lockdown during the pandemic? 220 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I have more time and more space to actually think 221 00:10:48,450 --> 00:10:50,739 Speaker 1: about what I want to do my future. The next 222 00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:53,570 Speaker 1: half of my career, what I did is to pursue 223 00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:56,689 Speaker 1: something which I'm passionate about and find something more purposeful. 224 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:59,159 Speaker 1: Spend 1st 15 of the years in the oil and 225 00:10:59,169 --> 00:11:02,369 Speaker 1: gas industry, but it is an industry and a profession 226 00:11:02,380 --> 00:11:04,809 Speaker 1: that I didn't choose. It chose me because at that time, 227 00:11:04,820 --> 00:11:07,689 Speaker 1: the sector was booming. So the companies were hiring 228 00:11:08,179 --> 00:11:11,039 Speaker 1: during the lockdown, think about it and decided to make 229 00:11:11,049 --> 00:11:14,020 Speaker 1: something more purposeful. So you went out to courses in 230 00:11:14,030 --> 00:11:17,890 Speaker 1: this area, train yourself my pivot to the agritech industry 231 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:20,250 Speaker 1: is more a calculated one. I did not did a 232 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: couple of years of diploma or degree in Agritech or agriculture. 233 00:11:24,549 --> 00:11:27,010 Speaker 1: So, what I did? Right. I find and search for 234 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:31,010 Speaker 1: local traditional farms and work off as a farming apprentice. 235 00:11:31,020 --> 00:11:34,929 Speaker 1: So spend the six months or so doing labor jobs 236 00:11:34,940 --> 00:11:38,010 Speaker 1: and taking as much agriculture notes as much as possible. 237 00:11:38,159 --> 00:11:40,710 Speaker 1: I call that on the job training. Were you paid 238 00:11:40,719 --> 00:11:41,049 Speaker 1: during this 239 00:11:41,195 --> 00:11:43,335 Speaker 1: six months? Yes, but it's more of an allowance I 240 00:11:43,344 --> 00:11:46,094 Speaker 1: would say for transports and meals. Were you able to 241 00:11:46,104 --> 00:11:49,775 Speaker 1: survive with the allowance? No, during that period of time, 242 00:11:49,784 --> 00:11:53,844 Speaker 1: I'm just fitting off with my savings. After the apprentice 243 00:11:53,854 --> 00:11:56,694 Speaker 1: sting ended, I went on to actually work for a 244 00:11:56,895 --> 00:11:59,804 Speaker 1: tech start firm involved in the R and D phase 245 00:11:59,875 --> 00:12:02,385 Speaker 1: but we failed to actually come up with a product 246 00:12:02,395 --> 00:12:03,994 Speaker 1: for the market. It close 247 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,689 Speaker 1: went on to another agritech firm, get involved in the 248 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,488 Speaker 1: operation stage, but the revenue is not enough to sustain 249 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:11,979 Speaker 1: the business again, it failed. So actually you took on 250 00:12:11,989 --> 00:12:15,250 Speaker 1: a rather entrepreneurial route. But one has to ask you 251 00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:18,380 Speaker 1: don't have kids. Your wife is still working, right? So 252 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:21,659 Speaker 1: was she the one really supporting you during that time? 253 00:12:21,669 --> 00:12:24,710 Speaker 1: It is she's the one to actually hold the household? 254 00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:27,609 Speaker 1: I asked that simply because some others may not be 255 00:12:27,619 --> 00:12:30,690 Speaker 1: in a similar situation who may not have that privilege, 256 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:31,299 Speaker 1: so to speak. 257 00:12:31,710 --> 00:12:33,849 Speaker 1: So for them to pivot and to change is a 258 00:12:33,859 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: very calculated risk and to your journey of so called 259 00:12:36,409 --> 00:12:39,299 Speaker 1: failures along the way, what easily a year of not 260 00:12:39,309 --> 00:12:42,039 Speaker 1: so called earning a real income is more than a year, 261 00:12:42,049 --> 00:12:44,270 Speaker 1: close to two years. So how feasible is that for 262 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,969 Speaker 1: the average man in the street when we think about 263 00:12:46,979 --> 00:12:48,299 Speaker 1: career switch is not like a 264 00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:50,625 Speaker 1: light switch, right? When you turn on and off, there 265 00:12:50,635 --> 00:12:53,585 Speaker 1: is a lot of calculations, a lot of discussions, a 266 00:12:53,614 --> 00:12:55,994 Speaker 1: lot of considerations. I like what y Yang said. You know, 267 00:12:56,145 --> 00:12:58,593 Speaker 1: he took the time to pause to reflect, to think 268 00:12:58,604 --> 00:13:00,784 Speaker 1: about what he really wants. And then after that, he 269 00:13:00,794 --> 00:13:04,025 Speaker 1: started to perhaps engage his family, engage his spouse to 270 00:13:04,034 --> 00:13:06,505 Speaker 1: get that buy in and then calculate the risk together 271 00:13:06,515 --> 00:13:08,424 Speaker 1: and find out how much are we going to go 272 00:13:08,434 --> 00:13:10,314 Speaker 1: in this journey? How far are we going to go along? 273 00:13:10,539 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: And there are no guarantees. You don't know what will happen. 274 00:13:12,849 --> 00:13:14,979 Speaker 1: But along the way, you have to keep taking stock 275 00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:17,739 Speaker 1: checking on whether is this going to continue working or 276 00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:19,799 Speaker 1: are we going to change the direction a little bit? 277 00:13:19,979 --> 00:13:22,119 Speaker 1: If today kids come along for them, I'm sure that 278 00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:24,150 Speaker 1: it will also change their plans a little bit here 279 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:26,978 Speaker 1: and there, there isn't a fixed plan for career transitions. 280 00:13:26,989 --> 00:13:29,530 Speaker 1: A lot of people when they have conversations with me, 281 00:13:29,539 --> 00:13:32,260 Speaker 1: they always think about career switch as an outcome that 282 00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: comes automatically after taking a course. 283 00:13:34,929 --> 00:13:37,169 Speaker 1: But I will tell them that that's one of the 284 00:13:37,179 --> 00:13:39,349 Speaker 1: things that you need to do to get yourself prepared 285 00:13:39,359 --> 00:13:42,369 Speaker 1: for a career switch. There's also many other perspective that 286 00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:45,469 Speaker 1: has to be considered like what Yang has himself gone through. 287 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,608 Speaker 1: It's not quite the norm and it's definitely not easy. 288 00:13:48,619 --> 00:13:50,659 Speaker 1: Then how do they make that switch? Because there are 289 00:13:50,669 --> 00:13:52,809 Speaker 1: those who want to do it may not have the 290 00:13:52,820 --> 00:13:56,030 Speaker 1: luxury of resources and support like yy did. What can 291 00:13:56,039 --> 00:13:58,190 Speaker 1: they do? Well, maybe I would jump in over here 292 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,390 Speaker 1: is that first thing first is when you want to 293 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,570 Speaker 1: do a career switch, 294 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,179 Speaker 1: the ideal state is while you are employed, all career 295 00:14:06,190 --> 00:14:09,799 Speaker 1: switch as much as possible is to be planned so 296 00:14:09,809 --> 00:14:13,710 Speaker 1: that the process is not so painful. Now, what if 297 00:14:13,719 --> 00:14:15,669 Speaker 1: you lost your job? You want to do a career 298 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,460 Speaker 1: switch as a career coach, I would advise them. Do 299 00:14:18,469 --> 00:14:20,799 Speaker 1: you really know what is your passion? What do you 300 00:14:20,809 --> 00:14:25,119 Speaker 1: like to do? Y Ling maybe from his engineering background. 301 00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:28,989 Speaker 1: He loves to deal with Agritech because it is a purpose. 302 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: We have mission 3030. This industry is growing 303 00:14:32,659 --> 00:14:36,590 Speaker 1: from workforce Singapore point of view to help people to transition. 304 00:14:36,599 --> 00:14:40,460 Speaker 1: We have a program called career conversion program, not only 305 00:14:40,469 --> 00:14:43,270 Speaker 1: that you are trained and you will be paid during 306 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: this period. Ok? But you want to start that journey 307 00:14:46,090 --> 00:14:48,559 Speaker 1: early and I have to challenge you because you say 308 00:14:48,659 --> 00:14:50,969 Speaker 1: find something that you're passionate about. But for some of 309 00:14:50,979 --> 00:14:51,630 Speaker 1: these people, 310 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,859 Speaker 1: passion doesn't matter. I just need to earn 311 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:57,820 Speaker 1: about the same salary as I am now because I 312 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:00,210 Speaker 1: still have all these bills to pay. So passion isn't 313 00:15:00,219 --> 00:15:03,849 Speaker 1: even in the equation. True. So the questions of do 314 00:15:03,859 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: you want a job or you want a career? So 315 00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:09,809 Speaker 1: yours is a job or career? Well, I think I 316 00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:12,270 Speaker 1: managed to actually combine this both together a job and 317 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,979 Speaker 1: as well as a passion in it a job, right? 318 00:15:14,989 --> 00:15:17,090 Speaker 1: If you continue to doing a job that you basically 319 00:15:17,099 --> 00:15:19,109 Speaker 1: have no passion about, right? Yes, it paid the bills. 320 00:15:19,239 --> 00:15:22,179 Speaker 1: But how long will last? That's where the mental struggles 321 00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:24,030 Speaker 1: will come in a stage of life. 322 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,700 Speaker 1: But you find something you're passionate about, right? Is something 323 00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:28,890 Speaker 1: that is, I would say more sustainable in terms of 324 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:32,830 Speaker 1: a business career, I may sound idealistic. So a job 325 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,460 Speaker 1: is definitely important for the interim. But while you're working 326 00:15:36,469 --> 00:15:41,510 Speaker 1: on an interim job, skills upgrade, know yourself do a profiling. 327 00:15:41,539 --> 00:15:44,270 Speaker 1: This is where our career coach will be able to 328 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,239 Speaker 1: assist in this area. 329 00:15:45,539 --> 00:15:47,469 Speaker 1: But what I actually believe in, right? Everybody needs to 330 00:15:47,479 --> 00:15:50,710 Speaker 1: be entrepreneurs of their lives to actually take control of 331 00:15:50,719 --> 00:15:54,140 Speaker 1: their lives and their careers. So when I mean entrepreneurs, right, 332 00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:56,700 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you have to actually start a business, 333 00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:57,770 Speaker 1: but the ability to, 334 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: to market, to sell and deliver yourself whatever you want 335 00:16:01,330 --> 00:16:03,309 Speaker 1: it to be. If I can ask you what would 336 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,669 Speaker 1: have made it easier for you to make that transition 337 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: from oil and gas to what you're doing today when 338 00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:12,070 Speaker 1: I did the pivot, right. Treat things comes in my 339 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,059 Speaker 1: mind in order of priority. And that would be the 340 00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:18,570 Speaker 1: housing loans, household expenses as well as medical insurance. If 341 00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:20,489 Speaker 1: these three things can be taken off my mind. Right. 342 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: I think I will be able to actually really focus. Well, 343 00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:23,940 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us would be 344 00:16:24,549 --> 00:16:28,039 Speaker 1: not just for anyone, but we want to listen to 345 00:16:28,049 --> 00:16:30,890 Speaker 1: Sean again because when we asked him what kind of 346 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:32,489 Speaker 1: support he would like to have and what it would 347 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:33,609 Speaker 1: look like. I think 348 00:16:33,619 --> 00:16:36,669 Speaker 2: from a money perspective, the company should also be financially 349 00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:41,710 Speaker 2: responsible to its employees to provide that buffer. So that's 350 00:16:41,719 --> 00:16:44,719 Speaker 2: one thing aside. Now, in terms of what other support 351 00:16:44,729 --> 00:16:47,679 Speaker 2: I feel that the government can give. I think it's 352 00:16:47,690 --> 00:16:51,479 Speaker 2: already there. We see a lot of cross skilling, retraining, 353 00:16:51,489 --> 00:16:54,330 Speaker 2: upskilling or skills future ws G this and that. 354 00:16:54,609 --> 00:16:56,989 Speaker 2: It's just like, where do you start when someone's retrenched? 355 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,770 Speaker 2: There might not be the right frame of mind to go. Oh, 356 00:16:59,780 --> 00:17:01,770 Speaker 2: I'm gonna look into skills future and see what I 357 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:04,489 Speaker 2: can do. How do you help people out of their 358 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:08,050 Speaker 2: emotional hole first? I think that's really important. Then a 359 00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:10,609 Speaker 2: blank canvas is always the hardest starting point. If you 360 00:17:10,619 --> 00:17:14,188 Speaker 2: go somewhere, you don't know where to start. So how 361 00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:17,150 Speaker 2: do we be able to provide support in a more personalized, 362 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,839 Speaker 2: maybe customized way could be just a career counselor. It 363 00:17:20,849 --> 00:17:21,709 Speaker 2: could be some 364 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:23,489 Speaker 2: when you talk to or even, you know, with this, 365 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,369 Speaker 2: all this A I tools out there. Now, is there 366 00:17:26,380 --> 00:17:29,369 Speaker 2: a way to be smart about being able to ingest 367 00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:33,609 Speaker 2: someone's resume and skill set and then be able to 368 00:17:33,619 --> 00:17:37,329 Speaker 2: offer up some pathways to jobs or training that might 369 00:17:37,339 --> 00:17:38,250 Speaker 2: want to look into. 370 00:17:38,609 --> 00:17:41,540 Speaker 1: Ok. So not just the money, if you give me 371 00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:43,889 Speaker 1: a severance package for three months, at least I have 372 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: three months covered while I search for a new job 373 00:17:46,890 --> 00:17:48,849 Speaker 1: and try and find a new opportunity. 374 00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:52,010 Speaker 1: But that's not enough. Can we help people more? What 375 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:54,500 Speaker 1: I'm picking up from Sean's audio clip is that there's 376 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: a need for more psychological support because firstly, it's about 377 00:17:57,569 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: dealing with the loss, a loss of a job, the 378 00:18:00,569 --> 00:18:03,599 Speaker 1: suddenness of it and the loss of familiarity of a routine. 379 00:18:03,609 --> 00:18:06,079 Speaker 1: Of course, the income as well as stability, it comes 380 00:18:06,089 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: across as a shock. Some people would just suppress that 381 00:18:09,369 --> 00:18:11,660 Speaker 1: and just move into job search mode right away. And 382 00:18:11,670 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: if they can find something very quickly good. But the 383 00:18:14,650 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: truth is if that takes time, 384 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: then the psychological state not being taken care of, it 385 00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: could spiral very quickly. But one could also argue is 386 00:18:22,209 --> 00:18:25,739 Speaker 1: because they were expecting maybe like an iron sable kind 387 00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:29,310 Speaker 1: of life from previous generations that seem quite normal, right? 388 00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:31,310 Speaker 1: To be in my job 30 years and suddenly told 389 00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:32,750 Speaker 1: I'm retrench is a shock. 390 00:18:33,310 --> 00:18:35,429 Speaker 1: Are you saying we should treat our young ones differently? 391 00:18:35,439 --> 00:18:38,050 Speaker 1: Those in schools now and train them to sort of 392 00:18:38,219 --> 00:18:42,430 Speaker 1: expect and anticipate that retrenchment will happen during their life. So, 393 00:18:42,439 --> 00:18:44,469 Speaker 1: if I were to carry on Sean's metaphor, he said, 394 00:18:44,540 --> 00:18:47,619 Speaker 1: it's like having a blank canvas. The question is our 395 00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:50,478 Speaker 1: canvas shouldn't be blank. There should be something on it. 396 00:18:50,489 --> 00:18:52,930 Speaker 1: Even when we are in a job, we should always 397 00:18:52,939 --> 00:18:54,530 Speaker 1: be in a state of thinking, 398 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: planning, asking ourselves questions being curious. So how did we 399 00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 1: end up not being like that today, we see our 400 00:19:01,969 --> 00:19:05,089 Speaker 1: lives in Singapore being a very hectic one work life 401 00:19:05,099 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: balance is out. Everybody spends all the time either at 402 00:19:08,209 --> 00:19:11,718 Speaker 1: work with their family and none for themselves. Some of 403 00:19:11,729 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: the people that come to us and they say I 404 00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:16,699 Speaker 1: need some direction. And when I asked them, what do 405 00:19:16,709 --> 00:19:18,079 Speaker 1: you do with your spare time? And they say, I 406 00:19:18,089 --> 00:19:20,510 Speaker 1: don't have spare time. And if you don't have spare 407 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: time to spend on yourself 408 00:19:22,369 --> 00:19:25,060 Speaker 1: naturally, it's very unlikely you have a direction because you 409 00:19:25,069 --> 00:19:28,290 Speaker 1: cannot even see yourself. You've been seeing everybody else every 410 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:30,810 Speaker 1: other need other than your own. So like what y 411 00:19:30,819 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: young said, the circuit breaker time, he was able to 412 00:19:33,569 --> 00:19:36,698 Speaker 1: see himself in that space and that helped him to 413 00:19:36,709 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: see a future as well. But that again sounds like 414 00:19:39,130 --> 00:19:42,170 Speaker 1: a luxury to find time for myself to find myself, 415 00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:44,510 Speaker 1: so to speak. I've got kids, I've got to worry 416 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,489 Speaker 1: about two jobs. Where got time, right. 417 00:19:47,824 --> 00:19:50,045 Speaker 1: What then can we do? How then can we help people? 418 00:19:50,055 --> 00:19:52,074 Speaker 1: That idea of A I is one of those. How 419 00:19:52,084 --> 00:19:57,375 Speaker 1: can we better prepare ourselves for this new volatile uncertain world? Well, 420 00:19:57,385 --> 00:19:59,805 Speaker 1: let me share my thoughts. Is that first and foremost, 421 00:19:59,814 --> 00:20:04,285 Speaker 1: I don't think the concept of iron rises exists today. 422 00:20:04,464 --> 00:20:07,645 Speaker 1: I don't come across that. My first job and last job, 423 00:20:07,775 --> 00:20:13,204 Speaker 1: the younger generation have moved from jobs to jobs more frequent. 424 00:20:13,489 --> 00:20:15,170 Speaker 1: Do you think that's good for them in that sense 425 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:20,060 Speaker 1: that they are more flexible, more agile, more agile, more 426 00:20:20,069 --> 00:20:24,709 Speaker 1: so called seeing a lot of different perspective in a career, 427 00:20:25,099 --> 00:20:29,229 Speaker 1: the exposure is different. In fact, employers as long that 428 00:20:29,239 --> 00:20:31,869 Speaker 1: you are not job hopping, but you are staying on 429 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,949 Speaker 1: a job for 34 years, you move on to the 430 00:20:33,959 --> 00:20:36,589 Speaker 1: next job. In fact, is this a norm right now 431 00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:39,810 Speaker 1: to have a career that you might have six or 432 00:20:39,819 --> 00:20:41,099 Speaker 1: seven different rules? 433 00:20:41,390 --> 00:20:45,089 Speaker 1: Obviously, if it goes up better, should government be jumping 434 00:20:45,099 --> 00:20:47,250 Speaker 1: in to provide more support to work for Singapore is 435 00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: giving a lot of support today in terms of a 436 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: career planning career profiling. Looking at your career health, if 437 00:20:55,689 --> 00:20:58,479 Speaker 1: you are in between jobs today, we will try to 438 00:20:58,489 --> 00:21:00,979 Speaker 1: talk to you to understand your background, 439 00:21:01,130 --> 00:21:05,030 Speaker 1: to address some of your concern. We try to reduce 440 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,670 Speaker 1: your emotional baggage as much as we can so that 441 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,020 Speaker 1: you are ready to move over to the next phase, 442 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:13,739 Speaker 1: which is your job search phase. And there's a lot 443 00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:18,150 Speaker 1: of supporting schemes we are able to help hopefully to 444 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,750 Speaker 1: reduce the so called job search cycle 445 00:21:21,219 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: to move them into the next or go back to 446 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:26,790 Speaker 1: the workforce as quickly as possible. So Gerald then would 447 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,958 Speaker 1: you recommend because you're saying you work often with people 448 00:21:28,969 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: who have jobs but are looking to move. 449 00:21:31,819 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: Should they start on this journey? Should everyone who is 450 00:21:34,290 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: in their late thirties, early forties start meeting with people 451 00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: like you career guidance counselors to just get a sense 452 00:21:40,729 --> 00:21:42,829 Speaker 1: of what is out there and start preparing themselves when 453 00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:45,229 Speaker 1: they write into us, they usually feeling this sense of 454 00:21:45,239 --> 00:21:47,170 Speaker 1: being stuck at a crossroads. They don't know what to do. 455 00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:51,089 Speaker 1: Moving forward seems scary, but staying on seems difficult. What 456 00:21:51,099 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: I often observe is that in order to make any 457 00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:56,369 Speaker 1: form of switch, the peripheral factors in their lives needs 458 00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: to be addressed first. So what I'm talking about 459 00:21:58,439 --> 00:22:04,380 Speaker 1: include things like social relationships, marital relationships, financial planning, all 460 00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:07,260 Speaker 1: of these aspects needs to be strong in order to 461 00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:10,410 Speaker 1: help a person to make an informed change or even 462 00:22:10,420 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: deal with an involuntary change. Like being let go is involuntary. 463 00:22:14,239 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: So if today someone has these, what we call protective 464 00:22:16,689 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: factors of relationships, financial planning, I have a good support 465 00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:23,389 Speaker 1: network they are also able to control their time, they 466 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,170 Speaker 1: are take ownership of their life. If these things are existent, 467 00:22:27,609 --> 00:22:30,579 Speaker 1: career planning becomes a lot easier. Career adapting becomes a 468 00:22:30,589 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: lot easier. They will be able to make use of 469 00:22:32,530 --> 00:22:34,780 Speaker 1: whatever the government has put up there while the government 470 00:22:34,790 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: has done a great job providing all the funding access services. 471 00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: But what they can't do is to make everybody that way. 472 00:22:41,770 --> 00:22:44,540 Speaker 1: They can't make everybody fine tune all their financial planning 473 00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: marriage just because most people are not that way. It's 474 00:22:47,729 --> 00:22:49,910 Speaker 1: a vicious cycle, right? Because I don't have a good 475 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,469 Speaker 1: job that pays all the bills. My family circumstances are 476 00:22:52,479 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: not so good. 477 00:22:53,489 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: My Children are not doing so well in school is 478 00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:58,319 Speaker 1: a vicious cycle. So what you're asking for is almost 479 00:22:58,329 --> 00:23:01,729 Speaker 1: an ideal state which unfortunately doesn't really exist. So that's 480 00:23:01,739 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: why we have to sometimes point out some of these 481 00:23:03,890 --> 00:23:06,659 Speaker 1: gaps and they might start to think about, ok, maybe 482 00:23:06,670 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: I need to think about my career direction. 483 00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:10,649 Speaker 1: I might need to start to have some conversations with 484 00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:13,140 Speaker 1: people around me because they could be feeling the sense 485 00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:15,839 Speaker 1: of disconnect or conflict between what the family wants of 486 00:23:15,849 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: them and what they want. So these things need to 487 00:23:17,770 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: come up with in conversation. So come and talk to 488 00:23:20,170 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: you guys earlier. In fact, even if you're not thinking 489 00:23:22,489 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: of changing jobs yet, we do have multi agencies to 490 00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:28,869 Speaker 1: come together to help a client as you mentioned about, 491 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,180 Speaker 1: it could be the marriage, it could be the financial, 492 00:23:31,189 --> 00:23:33,459 Speaker 1: it could be, they needed some social assistance 493 00:23:33,709 --> 00:23:37,989 Speaker 1: just for the interim period its existence today. So come 494 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,810 Speaker 1: to talk to us, we will try to guide you 495 00:23:39,819 --> 00:23:42,689 Speaker 1: along the way. So you won't be walking the path alone. 496 00:23:43,189 --> 00:23:45,739 Speaker 1: You any advice for people who might be in the 497 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:48,229 Speaker 1: same situation. You were a few years ago, I would 498 00:23:48,239 --> 00:23:51,409 Speaker 1: think to start your network early. Don't start to network 499 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:52,619 Speaker 1: when you are laid off or when you are in 500 00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:55,290 Speaker 1: a trench. Rome isn't built a day. So basically to 501 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:57,810 Speaker 1: build a network, right requires years of networking. 502 00:23:58,130 --> 00:24:00,750 Speaker 1: When I'm talking about network, I'm not talking about social 503 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: media network. I'm talking about your professional network outside the 504 00:24:03,770 --> 00:24:06,829 Speaker 1: industry or the industry that you actually hope to look into. 505 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,819 Speaker 1: So network and network. In other words, have people that 506 00:24:10,829 --> 00:24:14,030 Speaker 1: you can call on when you lose that job in 507 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,389 Speaker 1: areas that you think maybe these guys can give me 508 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,180 Speaker 1: a job. Maybe these guys can help me out right 509 00:24:18,189 --> 00:24:21,900 Speaker 1: before and this is all happening before before you invest 510 00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:24,780 Speaker 1: time to build up your network. Yeah, it might sound 511 00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: a bit late while you're in between jobs and you 512 00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:28,300 Speaker 1: start network. But 513 00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:30,790 Speaker 1: we do come across people like that. So for me 514 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,349 Speaker 1: is that we will try to give them tips, how 515 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,839 Speaker 1: to warm up their network, how to make use of, 516 00:24:35,849 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: for example, link in to look for your lost contact 517 00:24:38,890 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 1: to rebuild your connections. This helps. So what is on 518 00:24:42,729 --> 00:24:46,010 Speaker 1: your budget wish list? You want to start working as 519 00:24:46,020 --> 00:24:48,329 Speaker 1: a career coach? I come across a lot of jobseeker 520 00:24:48,339 --> 00:24:51,689 Speaker 1: coming forward. And one of the feedback is that I 521 00:24:51,699 --> 00:24:54,329 Speaker 1: hope to see more experience, 522 00:24:54,689 --> 00:24:58,489 Speaker 1: not just the training of the knowledge, the skills, but 523 00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:01,530 Speaker 1: how do you have more experience getting your hands on? 524 00:25:01,660 --> 00:25:05,339 Speaker 1: Meaning that the more support given to this area so 525 00:25:05,349 --> 00:25:08,709 Speaker 1: that it helps the job seekers in convincing to the 526 00:25:08,719 --> 00:25:11,438 Speaker 1: employer that will really helps them in the longer run. 527 00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:14,310 Speaker 1: We know that the rate of change is going to continue, 528 00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:16,569 Speaker 1: disruption is going to continue, more and more of these 529 00:25:16,579 --> 00:25:18,750 Speaker 1: changes are going to take place. So my wish this 530 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,599 Speaker 1: would be for organizations for hr people working in those organizations. 531 00:25:22,609 --> 00:25:23,790 Speaker 1: How can we equip them 532 00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:27,300 Speaker 1: with some of these career planning, career development conversation so 533 00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:30,060 Speaker 1: that they're not just looking at employees being in the 534 00:25:30,069 --> 00:25:32,708 Speaker 1: company working for the company, but they are really concerned 535 00:25:32,719 --> 00:25:35,310 Speaker 1: about having a plan for the next steps in their lives, 536 00:25:35,319 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: whether within the company or somewhere else. So companies helping 537 00:25:39,050 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: you with your career saying, hey, you work in engineering 538 00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: but why not go take a course in a different 539 00:25:44,290 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: department or different? Yeah, because right now, 540 00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: especially with the younger people, you're starting to see that 541 00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:52,180 Speaker 1: they're getting disengaged very quickly. So if you don't do this, 542 00:25:52,189 --> 00:25:53,900 Speaker 1: you're going to lose them you might as well start 543 00:25:53,910 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: to think about your employees in a more holistic manner. 544 00:25:56,619 --> 00:26:00,149 Speaker 1: Stop looking at them as just contributors to the individual portfolio, 545 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,380 Speaker 1: but look at how you can help them to grow 546 00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 1: their potential within the company. I'm looking for more training 547 00:26:06,969 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: on how a person would actually sell themselves 548 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:12,319 Speaker 1: because I think the art of selling outweighs any other 549 00:26:12,329 --> 00:26:15,660 Speaker 1: training that is valuable technical training can be actually picked 550 00:26:15,670 --> 00:26:18,500 Speaker 1: up along the way or easily more available. But the 551 00:26:18,510 --> 00:26:21,899 Speaker 1: ability to sell your ideas, your dreams, to sell yourself, 552 00:26:21,910 --> 00:26:24,429 Speaker 1: to get a job or to, for a business, that's 553 00:26:24,439 --> 00:26:27,319 Speaker 1: what it's lacking or what that is rare and seldom 554 00:26:27,329 --> 00:26:28,530 Speaker 1: see that has been offered 555 00:26:28,724 --> 00:26:31,594 Speaker 1: moment. Well, thanks so much for coming in, sharing those thoughts. 556 00:26:31,604 --> 00:26:33,204 Speaker 1: I think for many people, there's still a lot of 557 00:26:33,214 --> 00:26:37,275 Speaker 1: uncertainty and it's hard to deal with this uncertainty and 558 00:26:37,285 --> 00:26:40,135 Speaker 1: what we're saying while it sounds good, it's still hard 559 00:26:40,145 --> 00:26:42,185 Speaker 1: to do on a day to day basis. But I 560 00:26:42,194 --> 00:26:44,074 Speaker 1: did find this quote. It says a career is a 561 00:26:44,084 --> 00:26:47,795 Speaker 1: series of ups and downs and of comebacks 562 00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:50,060 Speaker 1: while we go up and down, we need to remember 563 00:26:50,069 --> 00:26:52,890 Speaker 1: that we can always bounce back some way. But how 564 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,579 Speaker 1: we do so and whether it's easier for some versus others, 565 00:26:55,589 --> 00:26:58,390 Speaker 1: depends on, I guess how we've managed that journey along 566 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,949 Speaker 1: the way. A big shout out to all of you 567 00:26:59,959 --> 00:27:02,430 Speaker 1: who are listening in. Thank you for joining us on 568 00:27:02,439 --> 00:27:04,540 Speaker 1: half of the matter. And also for tuning in, especially 569 00:27:04,550 --> 00:27:05,689 Speaker 1: to our simply go discuss 570 00:27:05,915 --> 00:27:08,614 Speaker 1: recently on youtube. We put it up and you guys 571 00:27:08,625 --> 00:27:12,425 Speaker 1: are passionate bunch lots of comments over 100,000 views. So 572 00:27:12,435 --> 00:27:14,185 Speaker 1: thanks so much. We're going to keep loading up our 573 00:27:14,194 --> 00:27:17,275 Speaker 1: podcast as well on youtube and of course, follow us 574 00:27:17,285 --> 00:27:20,895 Speaker 1: on Spotify and Apple as well. Thanks to my team, Tiffany, 575 00:27:21,064 --> 00:27:24,545 Speaker 1: Joan Chan, Christina Robert and sir, win our sound mixer 576 00:27:24,555 --> 00:27:27,964 Speaker 1: is Ken Delbridge to we chat again. I'm Steven Chia 577 00:27:28,045 --> 00:27:28,944 Speaker 1: saying bye for now.