Speaker 1: Happy New Year, Welcome to Men explain.
Speaker 1: I think you know, I've got the perfect guest for
Speaker 1: this episode because New Year new me. What better way
Speaker 1: to ring it in than a fitness trainer? Please welcome
Speaker 1: look hello
Speaker 2: everybody, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Lucas you are like a celebrity trainer almost
Speaker 1: in some
Speaker 2: sense, right?
Speaker 1: You're not going to say that okay, I'll say it
Speaker 1: for you, but because this episode we're talking about goals,
Speaker 1: success and imposter syndrome, I thought would be perfect to
Speaker 1: bring you on board because not only do you help
Speaker 1: people with transformation in that sense, it's not just physical,
Speaker 1: it's also mental. Right?
Speaker 2: Totally, totally, totally agree. Like
Speaker 2: I mean people always emphasize on that physical element, but
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of times about molding your character,
Speaker 2: you know, becoming a better version of yourself and true
Speaker 2: fitness is really just another medium for that. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: it's nice. Okay,
Speaker 1: so tell tell us a bit more about how you
Speaker 1: got started and why you're even in this industry in
Speaker 1: the first place,
Speaker 2: I think for me, you know, fitness has always been
Speaker 2: a very big part of my life ever since I
Speaker 2: was young. You know, I was playing volleyball competitively
Speaker 2: and I had the opportunity to really just study what
Speaker 2: I love, which is sports science came out, I didn't
Speaker 2: know what I want to do, but I want to
Speaker 2: do something related, something active. So yeah, tried out as
Speaker 2: a personal trainer, met some good people along the way,
Speaker 2: trained people from all walks of life and the goal
Speaker 2: is really to impact life through fitness. Yeah. And you know,
Speaker 2: like a decade has passed. It's been amazing clients who
Speaker 2: came on walking stick,
Speaker 2: The 84 year old lady, you know, and she's jumping now,
Speaker 1: she's jumping now,
Speaker 2: She's jumping, she's doing jumping jacks and moving well and
Speaker 2: like she inspired a whole bunch of people, you know
Speaker 2: in the 50s and 60s to start training
Speaker 2: and this really resonates with me because you know now
Speaker 2: it's really about aging population.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like how you brought that up because I
Speaker 1: think when we think personal trainer, fitness trainer, all that,
Speaker 1: we always think like all people who want to get,
Speaker 1: get fit or want to get lean or want to
Speaker 1: get their ideal body, but we also forget that there
Speaker 1: is a group of people who may have neglected fitness
Speaker 2: a big
Speaker 1: part of their life and now they have to try
Speaker 1: and stop
Speaker 1: getting
Speaker 2: totally, totally, like, I mean elderly training is one thing,
Speaker 2: but a lot of times people, they were once very active,
Speaker 2: you know? But life caught up, People get busy with
Speaker 2: their jobs, which is totally fine, you know, pursuing your
Speaker 2: dreams then one day they realized that something in my
Speaker 2: body is not moving, right?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, honestly, I'm not gonna lie, that's me,
Speaker 1: I haven't been working out in months. So I was
Speaker 1: like a little bit nervous coming to this episode because
Speaker 1: I think he
Speaker 1: one
Speaker 2: 100%
Speaker 1: Exactly. Oh God, that'd be horrible. But this journey of
Speaker 1: you creating your own business, setting up your own gym.
Speaker 1: That is not easy at all. I mean a lot
Speaker 1: of us always talk about, we want to do our
Speaker 1: own thing, like, you know, we want to, this is
Speaker 1: the year, this is it, we're going to do it.
Speaker 1: So tell me when you just transition from being like,
Speaker 1: say a personal trainer to owning your own business, what
Speaker 1: was the mindset behind that?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a very long story, but it's always about
Speaker 2: the feeling because, you know, as one person, right? I
Speaker 2: always believe that only can impact this amount of people
Speaker 2: as a personal trainer. You have this amount hours. Yes,
Speaker 2: you can train and inspire, but you know, as you
Speaker 2: start to do a job a little bit better. People
Speaker 2: start to appreciate it. Then that's when I get a
Speaker 2: whole team of like minded people come together, you know,
Speaker 2: make our impact stronger. Yeah. And we actually open during
Speaker 2: Covid by the way,
Speaker 1: how did you, why what they blocked out jim's
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: started the business knowing that they gyms.
Speaker 2: I wasn't really focused on that. When things start closing,
Speaker 2: I'm still doing what I do, send a message that
Speaker 2: we shouldn't hide and we shouldn't let this fear of
Speaker 2: the virus and everything consume us until we forget about
Speaker 2: taking care of ourselves. So training fitness can be done
Speaker 2: anywhere as well, right? So we can actually start doing
Speaker 2: more training. That's when the whole
Speaker 2: enthusiasm for fitness came about workouts, everything. So I thought
Speaker 2: it was great. Of course, you know, all these measures
Speaker 2: came about things get tough, we have to train outdoors,
Speaker 2: you have to drag document out, but you really taught
Speaker 2: us the whole idea about resilience and determination. Yeah. Like
Speaker 2: just to go out under the hot sun, you know,
Speaker 1: I never do that, like, go on the house and exercise, like,
Speaker 1: it's not easy,
Speaker 2: It's not easy. Yeah, we're all sweating, you know, we're
Speaker 2: all like fighting to get the
Speaker 2: fitness corner. But there was this there was this community
Speaker 2: spirit outside where jim started to share equipment, share space,
Speaker 2: you know, respect the public public started to understand that,
Speaker 2: you know, we needed this place to do what we
Speaker 2: do to work,
Speaker 2: and I think generally everything was very positive,
Speaker 1: but the vibe that I'm getting is that overall you're
Speaker 1: very confident guy, or at least you exude a lot
Speaker 1: of confidence, you know, and to be able to set
Speaker 1: up your own business requires a lot of that as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't really gone out to aside from
Speaker 1: some F and B. I haven't gone out to, like, okay,
Speaker 1: I want to
Speaker 1: do this, and like, I'm just gonna leave whatever I
Speaker 1: have behind it and do it. Do you think that
Speaker 1: confidence is something that you you possess?
Speaker 2: I would say it grew over time. Yeah. Yeah. When
Speaker 2: I was younger I had a lot of obstacles that
Speaker 2: I faced as an athlete that many people don't see
Speaker 2: other than my teammates. You know, I was playing volleyball right?
Speaker 2: So it was a team sport. But I had a
Speaker 2: huge ego,
Speaker 1: huge
Speaker 2: man, like
Speaker 1: self aware, he's very self aware
Speaker 2: last. I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, do whatever you
Speaker 2: get attention and just yeah,
Speaker 1: just grind,
Speaker 2: don't think just Yeah, but over time, you know, like
Speaker 2: I was kind of at this point, the star player
Speaker 2: for my team, I follow this coach by this coach
Speaker 2: from china who grounds me. Yeah. So literally like, you know,
Speaker 2: he taught me all the values as an athlete. I
Speaker 2: think sports is great because they teach you this sort
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 2: And I had this point where I was being very arrogant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of at some point, even look down on the team.
Speaker 1: Do we have pictures and clips from his past to
Speaker 1: flash up right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was crazy because we were all tall. We're
Speaker 2: all very dominating. We jump high. But
Speaker 1: he's really, he's really tall. Like when he came in
Speaker 1: to say hi, I live when I hugged him, I
Speaker 1: was at a level. I think it was about the point.
Speaker 2: So literally like it was this experience of like being
Speaker 2: very dominating. Then I got blocked.
Speaker 2: I got my balls got defended, my spikes, got
Speaker 1: balls got defended
Speaker 2: like the spike
Speaker 1: spike spike play volleyball, it's
Speaker 2: like attack. You know like
Speaker 1: you're talking about the volleyball, you're the volume
Speaker 2: itself
Speaker 1: so my balls got blocked. I was like what is going,
Speaker 1: what show are we on again? Like what's the topic again?
Speaker 1: I forgot
Speaker 2: defend your boss. But anyway, yeah it was really tough
Speaker 2: because at the night itself you know we lost the
Speaker 2: game by the way it was a game we were
Speaker 2: supposed to win.
Speaker 1: It was a it was a big game,
Speaker 2: it was just a group stage game you know and
Speaker 2: my school N. Y. J. C. We're known for volleyball
Speaker 2: and every year people expect us to be the final time.
Speaker 2: So we are almost on the verge of getting out
Speaker 2: of the group
Speaker 1: stage because
Speaker 2: of me because my team trusted me and I got
Speaker 2: consumed by my
Speaker 1: ego. Yeah
Speaker 2: it was stuff then the same night my coach bumped
Speaker 2: into the reserve team right and I was still being arrogant,
Speaker 2: I was like how did you do this to
Speaker 1: me? Right,
Speaker 2: so I against my
Speaker 2: my teammates and
Speaker 1: in that moment it felt like everything was against you
Speaker 1: and you
Speaker 2: just wanted to prove a point and I did you
Speaker 2: know we won the main team and just with me
Speaker 2: the other side. But then after that my coach gathered
Speaker 2: us all together right? Just sit down, you know, very
Speaker 2: intimate setting and just directed it to me. Okay. Yeah
Speaker 2: and you told me like he
Speaker 1: gave it to, you gave
Speaker 2: it to me, but he gave it in a very
Speaker 2: different way, not like a scolding way.
Speaker 2: He said like, you know, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: Like you were never like that when I first saw you,
Speaker 1: my God, we have to queue some emotional music right now.
Speaker 2: You know, it's
Speaker 1: so character turning point
Speaker 2: totally totally and say that you know is you know,
Speaker 2: this is a team sport, it's not about you only right? Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that hit you hard. I
Speaker 2: mean I cried, I cried for my team. You know,
Speaker 2: I was this guy who is so much you just
Speaker 2: trying to point out that my team is surprisingly they
Speaker 2: were all very supportive. Yeah. So at that time really
Speaker 2: just pull everything out and
Speaker 2: Like that really, that was at my lowest point in
Speaker 2: my prime. I was my lowest, I got bench but
Speaker 2: my coach gave me a chance to actually make it
Speaker 2: up for the next game. So there was one last
Speaker 2: ball I went in, it was like 25, if I
Speaker 2: got the point we want, then we proceed, he substitute
Speaker 2: me in and I scored.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he sent
Speaker 2: me a message in chinese.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically it says like, you know, like
Speaker 1: you have to translate one spike,
Speaker 2: I got back my confidence and I proved my worth. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that moment was pivotal. We went on to win
Speaker 2: next year. He made me captain everyone. Yeah. So like
Speaker 2: why I thought about this moment is because every time
Speaker 2: when I'm feeling down, I think I feel defeated. You
Speaker 2: just think about it. Like I was once like that,
Speaker 2: you know, and stuff what my coach did to me
Speaker 2: was really like this mentorship that was like to me
Speaker 2: it's a huge lesson then. No,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that story with us because I
Speaker 1: know that, you know, in moments like that it really
Speaker 1: shapes who you are and you know, when, like you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier on,
Speaker 1: whenever you revisit certain memories like that you still get emotional.
Speaker 1: You know, I can see that it's still very fresh
Speaker 1: for you, even though it was probably like many years ago,
Speaker 2: More than 10 years ago,
Speaker 1: you still carry it with you. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of athletes
Speaker 2: have that moment in
Speaker 1: that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And because whenever there's always this moment in you that
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: always something,
Speaker 2: something like you just recall and I did it before,
Speaker 2: I can definitely do it again.
Speaker 1: So on that note, you know, clearly you have learned
Speaker 1: a lot and you're more self aware now, you know,
Speaker 1: you're more mature as well in that sense, which is great.
Speaker 1: Everyone matures and grows up. What is your understanding then
Speaker 1: of imposter syndrome when you go into the industry when
Speaker 1: you started your own business, when you think back on
Speaker 1: these moments, you reflects you want to be a better person,
Speaker 1: what is your understanding of
Speaker 2: that? I think is something that's very prevalent these days. Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah, but um I feel that it's just this state
Speaker 2: of like self doubt, lack of belief and maybe undermining
Speaker 2: your worth when you are actually worth that much more. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I feel that this world, you know, like it
Speaker 2: can be translated into so many things, you know, you
Speaker 2: did not be the most successful person, not be the,
Speaker 2: you know, the most famous person or not be exactly
Speaker 2: the best at what you do, but you just need
Speaker 2: to know that you do your best, right, then. I
Speaker 2: think that is really worth commending, What do you think
Speaker 2: about it?
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, I definitely definitely visit that headspace
Speaker 1: once in a while and I don't know what your
Speaker 1: star sign is, but I'm Capricorn, as I said like
Speaker 1: many times and I'm very work driven, so a lot
Speaker 1: of my goals revolve around career and you know, when
Speaker 1: we talk about goals in the new year
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and also successes of what we
Speaker 1: have achieved. I feel like I tie a lot of
Speaker 1: my self worth to work related success or what related
Speaker 1: goals and sometimes I neglect my personal life in a
Speaker 1: lot of that sense and that's why also, like, you know,
Speaker 1: when I look back, I've had so many relationships, right?
Speaker 1: But none of them really sort of came to a
Speaker 1: conclusion in a sense, like I never really settled down.
Speaker 1: I never really you know, you know what I mean, right?
Speaker 1: Because I always feel like I put that in the
Speaker 1: back seat,
Speaker 1: not that I'm putting my relationship in the backseat right now.
Speaker 1: I think that as we grow older or we mature
Speaker 2: change for you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for interviewing me by the way. So no, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say what changed in a sense. I think in
Speaker 1: a way being in the industry for quite some time already,
Speaker 1: I realized that you cannot win all the battles, right?
Speaker 1: You have to be very selective when it comes to it.
Speaker 1: You win some you lose some and you have to
Speaker 1: make a choice sometimes as well. So like you mention
Speaker 1: early on, you know, when you're younger, you had more ego,
Speaker 1: you have more pride and stuff like that. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure that also affected your decision making for me. I
Speaker 1: used to always take it very personally if I didn't
Speaker 1: get a job or like, you know, I'm very competitive,
Speaker 1: so if likewise, I don't play sports clearly, and I
Speaker 1: cannot play team sports. But anyway, the point is, it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel great when you lose,
Speaker 2: no one
Speaker 1: clearly no one likes to lose, right? And I also
Speaker 1: like to win, you know, and this competitive streak
Speaker 1: in me was quite self destructive in a sense that
Speaker 1: I always saw it if I didn't get this or
Speaker 1: didn't score a trial, I didn't do that, I was
Speaker 1: like why, why someone else better than me? And I
Speaker 1: always saw it that way, but I realized as we
Speaker 1: mature and we grow in the industry sometimes it's not
Speaker 1: all about us, you know, it's not always about you, likewise,
Speaker 1: you know, with your story about the sports and all that,
Speaker 1: you also came to that conclusion, you realize that moment right?
Speaker 2: Totally. I mean once we start comparing people, there's always
Speaker 2: like
Speaker 2: no limit to how that person might be better because
Speaker 2: I also go for some castings, you know and doable
Speaker 2: acting and stuff. So when I first entered this industry
Speaker 2: as well to try oh my God, it was not
Speaker 2: the most encouraging because
Speaker 1: it can be very toxic in your own mind, right?
Speaker 1: Because
Speaker 2: you might do the best audition and stuff, but the
Speaker 2: producer might choose another person for another reason, that's right,
Speaker 2: and it's not nothing against you. Then you start to
Speaker 2: accept that you have to
Speaker 1: shift your mindset,
Speaker 2: your mindset and just know that you give your best,
Speaker 2: that's all that matters. Right?
Speaker 1: So, I'm curious to know because you know, in our industry,
Speaker 1: in the media it can be competitive, it can be toxic. Yes,
Speaker 1: but in any other industry as well, it's yours. Okay,
Speaker 1: is there that same level of competitiveness that could give
Speaker 1: rise to you sort of falling for you know an
Speaker 1: impostor syndrome moment every once in a
Speaker 2: while?
Speaker 2: Well, I think um there is actually like in a sense,
Speaker 2: like we always want to be better than another, like
Speaker 2: in a sense, like especially in fitness, you know, you're
Speaker 2: always striving to look better. You always trying to hit
Speaker 2: your pr
Speaker 1: that's really tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're always the goal is always not to be
Speaker 2: at the plateau, Right? Yeah. So for trainers, we always
Speaker 2: have this in us and there's always this idea about
Speaker 2: how can we do better than the other and sometimes
Speaker 2: you might go another way,
Speaker 2: but I think generally for us, everyone is working towards
Speaker 2: the direction of like building this community, such as when
Speaker 2: everyone starts to work out when everyone starts to train
Speaker 2: the share of the pie is bigger and generally like,
Speaker 2: fitness and health is great for everyone. So now
Speaker 2: I feel that, you know, with the covid pandemic, everything,
Speaker 2: we are all working towards that, more gyms opening up
Speaker 2: more people want to be trainers to inspire life. So
Speaker 2: I think it's great. Do
Speaker 1: you have a lot of female trainers?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Industry in general,
Speaker 2: not as many as guys. Yeah, definitely like, but definitely
Speaker 2: there's more that is coming up and I think they
Speaker 2: bring a whole different like,
Speaker 2: approach to training
Speaker 1: in what way?
Speaker 2: I'll say they're coaching star. Yeah, because for guys, you know,
Speaker 2: we tend
Speaker 1: to do that push up now,
Speaker 2: but it's not
Speaker 1: really
Speaker 2: like that. I know some people who are very gentle,
Speaker 2: like really like gentle, giant, kind of some trainers who
Speaker 2: that and
Speaker 2: but what we learned and what I observed from female
Speaker 2: trainers that they show of course a lot more empathy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they can, you know that soft approach is very important
Speaker 2: and we use that, you know, and for training and
Speaker 2: for male trainers we always tell them that you know,
Speaker 2: we always have to relate, we have to understand because
Speaker 2: sometimes it's not that
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: don't want to go forward,
Speaker 2: it's not that you don't want to push it just
Speaker 2: that maybe you had a very long day, you know,
Speaker 2: you just don't have that in you today, but you
Speaker 2: made it to training, you want that first battle come
Speaker 2: here just do a simple session and this adrenaline, this
Speaker 2: endorphins
Speaker 1: make you feel better
Speaker 2: totally, and that is really considered good session. It's not
Speaker 2: always about having the most
Speaker 2: like high calorie burning session, having the food pumpin. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I feel it's great now things are changing.
Speaker 1: It's nice to see that because I do notice, you know,
Speaker 1: you guys do a lot of social media, you know
Speaker 1: you have a lot of content going out as well,
Speaker 1: that's why I always wondered how competitive was that is
Speaker 1: that industry, You know,
Speaker 2: I would say that everyone is doing their their content
Speaker 2: and I mean now, you know like digital content is
Speaker 2: very important
Speaker 2: to really reach out to people because people will know
Speaker 2: who you are, but for myself, for our team, it's
Speaker 2: always about promoting the idea about fitness as a lifestyle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we don't don't really like to go towards the
Speaker 2: side of making things too difficult, making things too like
Speaker 2: you must do this in order to get this result.
Speaker 2: It's more like you can you can try this, you know,
Speaker 2: if this
Speaker 1: helps you time on your own, That's good.
Speaker 2: You know, like this is our take on it, but
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that the other method is bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you like it quit, you know share
Speaker 2: your friends and
Speaker 1: that sounds actually okay because the reason why I brought
Speaker 1: that up was I feel like there were some moments
Speaker 1: earlier on in my career that really I still revisit
Speaker 1: also once in a while in not such a good way,
Speaker 1: but you know, hearing about how competitive it is as
Speaker 1: well in your industry in mind. I mean obviously every
Speaker 1: industry has its toxic side and the positive side. But
Speaker 1: I remember this one moment, this was quite quite some
Speaker 1: time ago. I was still very junior. I was very
Speaker 1: new at the time
Speaker 1: and I was still kind of figuring my way out
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what is it I want to
Speaker 1: specialize in what's my branding and branding I'm sure is
Speaker 1: so important,
Speaker 2: right? Like Sonja's branding is like so good. Thank you really, really,
Speaker 2: really respect the things that you do and stuff. I
Speaker 2: feel that really resonates with her. Thank you. This is
Speaker 2: really being authentic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So that, that's authenticity, right, is so important.
Speaker 1: Being genuine, being real. But one thing that really impacted
Speaker 1: me quite some time ago was when a male colleague
Speaker 1: not in the company anymore from, from a long time ago,
Speaker 1: he was kind of gossiping to other people saying Sonja
Speaker 1: will only make it because she looks a certain way
Speaker 1: and that's it. And he was like, she's not even
Speaker 1: that good or whatever. And when I heard it, you
Speaker 1: know what travels, you know, it came back. I was
Speaker 1: very upset, okay, at first I was extremely upset. I
Speaker 1: was like, how dare you like this bit, this whole,
Speaker 1: this is okay, you can leave that out. I was like,
Speaker 1: this bit like, how do you say that, whatever, But
Speaker 1: as I moved along in the industry and I revisit
Speaker 1: that moment and like, you know what, from that moment onwards, right?
Speaker 1: I felt like they need to prove myself increased by
Speaker 1: tenfold and I wasn't sure whether that was a good
Speaker 1: or bad thing, because I know for a lot of women,
Speaker 1: we also feel like we need to
Speaker 1: prove a lot more in the industry at the workplace,
Speaker 1: in our line of work, you know, in career and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and I hate to see it that,
Speaker 1: you know, when people say, oh, she's only cute or
Speaker 1: she's got a good body or she's got a good face,
Speaker 1: that's why she's going to make it like that, but
Speaker 1: it is so much more than just physicality, right? And
Speaker 1: how you look that will take you far. So in
Speaker 1: a sense
Speaker 1: when I look back at that moment, I don't know
Speaker 1: whether that caused me to develop more of an imposter
Speaker 1: syndrome than before.
Speaker 2: I think women tend to have it more like harder
Speaker 2: than men in
Speaker 1: a way you feel, why do you feel that way?
Speaker 2: I'll say a little bit more in a sense like
Speaker 2: your self worth? Probably you feel me
Speaker 2: need to actually prove your worth more
Speaker 1: right? Yeah,
Speaker 2: guys, you know, we always, we have a lot of
Speaker 2: ego
Speaker 1: and you walk into a room with confidence right? We're
Speaker 2: always about the ego, you don't break my ego, you know,
Speaker 2: that masculine approach and stuff and I guess for us,
Speaker 2: you know, we feel that there is this kind of
Speaker 2: pressure to actually perform at a certain level so that
Speaker 2: we can match,
Speaker 1: especially if you were from a background of competitive sports
Speaker 1: and that definitely highlights it more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like, I feel that there's this but
Speaker 2: I think it's about just understanding our differences and finding
Speaker 2: like learning from each other right in order to actually
Speaker 2: try because I do see a lot of like female
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs and stuff, I look at them and they manage
Speaker 2: a team in a different way Yeah, they somehow has
Speaker 2: this in them that they are very enterprising for sure,
Speaker 2: yeah and I learned a lot, I learned a lot
Speaker 2: just by observing just like looking at the way they
Speaker 2: do things, so it is a very different learning experience,
Speaker 1: but do you feel like also perhaps you know these
Speaker 1: insecurities and moments of self doubt that you have, you
Speaker 1: don't necessarily open up too much about it, you guys
Speaker 1: try and
Speaker 2: like mask
Speaker 1: that up with overcompensating,
Speaker 2: you don't want to appear weak, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: especially
Speaker 2: I would say as an entrepreneur, you know it's harder
Speaker 2: to showcase
Speaker 1: this vulnerable
Speaker 2: because you know when you're vulnerable you always tend to
Speaker 2: think that people want to take advantage of you and
Speaker 2: for me I was very vulnerable before, so I felt
Speaker 2: that you know someone just, someone told me like it's
Speaker 2: okay to show this side of,
Speaker 2: you can't
Speaker 1: always be the tough guy,
Speaker 2: people then know that you actually have feelings for them,
Speaker 2: you know, you actually care about them because sometimes you
Speaker 2: know as entrepreneurs, although you want to care for people,
Speaker 2: you have to make decisions that are tough, very tough
Speaker 2: and sometimes you know as a stuff you might not
Speaker 2: understand why, but I always think like there's different ways
Speaker 2: I approach things like for my guys, you know
Speaker 2: the team always feel that reasoning is key, you always
Speaker 2: have to explain why I do certain things, you know,
Speaker 2: why is it not done the other way and you
Speaker 2: understand and guys very broad and once you understand totally
Speaker 2: no qualms about it, ladies, I feel that I will
Speaker 2: spend some time, you know, like asking them how they
Speaker 2: feel about it, you know, what can be done differently,
Speaker 2: you know? So there's this like, you know, different approach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's fine, it's totally
Speaker 2: fine, it's totally fine, and
Speaker 2: that's just the way things work and that's how I observe,
Speaker 2: you know, and
Speaker 2: we learn from each other, it's nice, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a process like to me, fatherhood has really like shaped
Speaker 2: me in another way, you know, you told me about
Speaker 2: a lot about empathy,
Speaker 1: I'm sure has softened you
Speaker 2: totally, like, you know, there's no module that issue about parenting,
Speaker 1: so since we're going into fatherhood and parenting right at
Speaker 1: this point, have you had moments of self doubt when
Speaker 1: it came to being a good dad, being a good
Speaker 1: role model, a good example,
Speaker 2: totally, totally, because
Speaker 2: it's like when my girl just came into this world,
Speaker 2: I was like what
Speaker 1: do you do, what I do?
Speaker 2: How do I hold her? You know, like, is it
Speaker 2: okay if she react this way, you know, what is
Speaker 2: her next growing like, milestone and is so much, there's
Speaker 2: so much like, question marks and me and my wife
Speaker 2: were just really figuring out, I think our parents would
Speaker 2: say the same thing that
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's so incredible because it teaches you so
Speaker 2: many things, it really teaches you so many things and
Speaker 2: once you see that happening, you realize that they have
Speaker 2: their own journey to follow, they have their own like
Speaker 2: milestones to hit, just go at their own pace, and
Speaker 2: this resonates with what I do. So yeah, so it
Speaker 2: seems like when you manage a team and stuff, let
Speaker 2: everyone grow at their own pace, you know, like show
Speaker 2: them and recognize their efforts in different milestones
Speaker 2: and you'll support them in their progression in every single way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you've been through different phases of life, right? You know,
Speaker 1: first it was that competitive sportsman, then business owner now,
Speaker 1: also your dad, so you've hit all those milestones as,
Speaker 1: so we call it in life, right? I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask you a very simple question if you had to
Speaker 1: rate your confidence level now from a scale of like
Speaker 1: 1 to 10, what would it be versus back then,
Speaker 2: back then it was like
Speaker 1: 12, 12, 10,
Speaker 2: but I'm just like, trying to be too full myself now,
Speaker 2: I would still say
Speaker 2: I'm quite a 10 out of 10 person in a sense, like,
Speaker 2: I don't really like to doubt myself, it's not okay,
Speaker 2: it's not that I don't I have moments like that,
Speaker 2: but I always feel that, you know, as long I
Speaker 2: give my best, you know, that's really enough, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it just, it just because now I have so many
Speaker 2: roles to play, right? Yeah. I always have to be
Speaker 2: this pillar, you know,
Speaker 1: strong person,
Speaker 2: whatever I do.
Speaker 2: And it helps when I'm so supportive. Your parents, I'm
Speaker 2: the only son, I'm the only child. So now they're retired,
Speaker 2: I support them, my wife, you know, my team, you know,
Speaker 2: the sole owner of the business and stuff. So everyone's
Speaker 2: relying on me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I feel that I have no chance to
Speaker 2: really let go and take it easy. I'm a bit
Speaker 2: hard myself, just like you, I
Speaker 1: AM hard on myself 100%.
Speaker 2: It just feels that there's this expectation on me then
Speaker 2: causes me to be there every day. It most me
Speaker 2: to be stronger and more confident and just take the
Speaker 2: leap of faith because if I don't, if I don't
Speaker 2: set my an example, how do I expect my team
Speaker 2: to follow?
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I can
Speaker 1: relate to what you're saying. I mean on a different level,
Speaker 1: I'm also an only child. I support my family as well.
Speaker 1: There are moments where I'm like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you know I can do this and also pursue what
Speaker 1: I want to do and you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I don't want to call it, it's not baggage, it's
Speaker 1: your responsibilities and it's also our choice to do what
Speaker 1: we do, right? But in certain moments I while people
Speaker 1: think I'm a very confident person at least that's what
Speaker 1: people perceive.
Speaker 1: I actually have many moments in a day where I
Speaker 1: just wallow in self doubt and I'm like, that's something
Speaker 2: that I can't tell, I can't tell
Speaker 1: You because obviously, you know, on social is not what
Speaker 1: you see, right? I mean what you see is not
Speaker 1: exactly 100% the truth, right? And
Speaker 2: what moments in your day that you know, like before,
Speaker 1: I think I over think like, okay, what am I
Speaker 1: going to do in five years or 10 years and
Speaker 1: am I on the right path there?
Speaker 2: It
Speaker 1: plagues me every day, you know, I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I don't know whether it's that I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you, is it a man versus woman thing?
Speaker 1: Like is because I'm an over thinker actually
Speaker 2: I have that too. Like, you know, like, you know,
Speaker 2: like what I do in five years, 10 years time,
Speaker 2: you know how the industry change, you
Speaker 1: know, so
Speaker 2: much tech, you know, will I be able to live
Speaker 2: up to that expectation then
Speaker 2: we'll be able to innovate now to make sure that
Speaker 2: I can have that hit start then
Speaker 1: and then from there I start to spiral into am
Speaker 1: I doing OK now I am I am I the
Speaker 1: best at what I do now, you know, can I
Speaker 1: do more, is this? It's like sometimes I question before
Speaker 1: like is this it is this the peak? Is this
Speaker 1: all that
Speaker 2: never ending? Like path of chasing.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Like we're always chasing something that
Speaker 2: really well,
Speaker 2: that's why we feel tired actually. I have that if
Speaker 2: you're talking about that. No, I definitely have that. I
Speaker 2: tend to like chase a lot and sometimes you also
Speaker 2: feel that, you know, I mean you want to be
Speaker 2: the best fitness trainer and stuff
Speaker 1: constituency that.
Speaker 2: What does that mean? You know, people say like, you know,
Speaker 2: have some haters, you know, like, you know, this guy
Speaker 2: only can train celebrities and stuff like that, but then
Speaker 2: I didn't start off training celebrities.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's just a journey that I now have
Speaker 2: the opportunity to like, okay, I'm going to do it
Speaker 2: well despite everyone's hectic scale, I'm gonna try to make
Speaker 2: it work whatever it is. Very important to actually like
Speaker 2: work on ourselves. Now focus on the present, you know,
Speaker 2: except for as I asked for what we are and
Speaker 2: just slowly as long you're chasing that goal that you
Speaker 2: set for yourself, step by step, even just a slight improvement,
Speaker 2: a slight milestone. We have to really comment ourselves and
Speaker 2: give ourselves a pat on the back. So
Speaker 1: you sound like you've always nipped in the butt when
Speaker 1: it came to moments of self doubt because sometimes I
Speaker 1: will spiral mentally and then I'll have no conclusion. Then
Speaker 1: the next day I'll just wake up feeling miserable all
Speaker 1: over again. So how do you deal with in moments
Speaker 1: of self doubt, How do you deal with
Speaker 2: it? I'll say
Speaker 2: I always like talk to myself like in a sense
Speaker 2: like
Speaker 1: isn't only shouting, we always, I don't know, we have
Speaker 1: not talked to nobody, no friends like when I was Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I think it shapes us, you know like in
Speaker 2: a sense like okay what I'm gonna do, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to rely on my parents, I'm trying to face
Speaker 2: it myself and like I guess that really helps you
Speaker 2: just reflect, you know, you start to like think about
Speaker 2: like what lessons you have learned, you know, is this
Speaker 2: as bad last time? You know it's actually just okay,
Speaker 2: this is just another challenge that we face now and
Speaker 2: I can overcome it then I can overcome it now
Speaker 2: if I can't ask for support. So like my wife
Speaker 2: supports me, you know, I talk, what
Speaker 1: did she do? She
Speaker 2: Yeah, she does marketing for airline company and she's a
Speaker 2: very different person comment to me, she's really
Speaker 1: balances you out
Speaker 2: totally, totally. I always ask her about things and
Speaker 2: sometimes she's quite tired about hearing me talk about this
Speaker 2: stuff like very boring like work stuff, but she really
Speaker 2: balances me out in a sense like you know she
Speaker 2: encourages me to think about the other side of things,
Speaker 2: the emotional side of things, you know, like maybe
Speaker 2: you can try it the other way, maybe it's not
Speaker 2: always good to go on figure a way out, you
Speaker 2: know I mean you're fine, you're doing good, okay, take
Speaker 2: a break,
Speaker 1: I think it's good to have a supportive partner as
Speaker 1: well who gives a different perspective friends
Speaker 2: as well as well.
Speaker 1: Exactly, absolutely. Like sometimes when I
Speaker 1: um yeah, and bit about my day to my partner,
Speaker 1: sometimes I see his eyes just glaze over and he's
Speaker 1: probably like, oh my God, this is the same thing again.
Speaker 1: But sometimes, you know, you just, you don't need a solution,
Speaker 1: you just need someone who is listening and who is
Speaker 1: understanding and who may give you a more practical point
Speaker 1: of view or something
Speaker 2: that you don't need someone to be there to just
Speaker 2: feel the answer just here, be listening here
Speaker 2: and you know sometimes true that talk, you start to
Speaker 2: realize something about yourself and you figure out the answer.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, you know, being a business owner yourself
Speaker 1: currently have you know, we talked about self doubt, but
Speaker 1: have you ever thought what if I fail? Like what
Speaker 1: if what I set out to do doesn't work out
Speaker 1: at some point. Have you ever, do you ever think
Speaker 1: of those
Speaker 2: moments?
Speaker 2: Have you
Speaker 1: had to deal with moments of failure
Speaker 2: definitely. Like there's so many points where you feel so down,
Speaker 2: but it's always like, I can never let this fear
Speaker 2: consume me this fear is going to inspire me Yeah,
Speaker 2: fear of failure, like I cannot afford to,
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 2: know, so like even before we go down there without, right?
Speaker 2: It's always about like psyching myself up, you know, like
Speaker 2: to really create this moment, this energy in myself, that
Speaker 2: how do I feel then, you know, this is just
Speaker 2: a down moment. I'll get through it, I really will
Speaker 2: get through it.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of self
Speaker 2: talk that really, like, you know, spurs me on, like
Speaker 2: to say that there's nothing I can't handle. Yeah. If
Speaker 2: someone else had been through this before, they might have
Speaker 2: it worse. This is just another obstacle,
Speaker 1: you know? Yeah. I used to think that I was
Speaker 1: a perfectionist like my entire life, but I realized as
Speaker 1: I grew a bit older that perhaps I'm more afraid
Speaker 1: of failure than actually wanting to achieve perfection in that sense.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that there's this like part of
Speaker 2: you that exists in terms of the failure?
Speaker 1: Okay, so I would say when I started out doing
Speaker 1: F&B just a couple of years back, right? And it
Speaker 1: was very happening, you know, it was like 2018, peak
Speaker 1: of things, you know, I was really doing so much
Speaker 1: and I was like
Speaker 1: so excited to start a new venture like with new
Speaker 1: partners and people that I'm excited to do a business
Speaker 1: with and things were going so good, right, we're full
Speaker 1: house every night, people were queuing up, you know, just
Speaker 1: to get into the bar on weekends and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: Then the pandemic hit,
Speaker 1: right?
Speaker 2: And it
Speaker 1: changed everything because we weren't really we're not exactly a
Speaker 1: food focused place. It was also like lifestyle is also
Speaker 1: a bar
Speaker 2: interaction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the atmosphere, it's, you know, the music, the lights,
Speaker 1: the everything right?
Speaker 1: And when that happens, we struggle, like we really struggled
Speaker 1: to make a comeback and eventually we decided, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna close this chapter and move on
Speaker 1: to something different maybe now, maybe in the future, maybe
Speaker 1: in a year or two, who knows? Right?
Speaker 1: So we still have that partnership, we still have, you know,
Speaker 1: the company shares and all that. But we decided, I
Speaker 1: think this is not working out in this area
Speaker 2: anymore and
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna call it a day, surprisingly in
Speaker 1: that moment, I think I took it quite well because
Speaker 1: the reason why I almost didn't want to do a
Speaker 1: business in F M. B in the first place was
Speaker 1: that I was afraid, oh my gosh, what if we fail?
Speaker 1: What if no one comes, what if we closed? What
Speaker 1: am I going to say to like the press or
Speaker 1: in an interview? Like what am I going to do? Right?
Speaker 1: And I was overcome by all those thoughts, but in
Speaker 1: that moment, I was like, you know what, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna stop this Self doubt, I'm just gonna try. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to give it a shot. Besides, I'm doing
Speaker 1: it with a bunch of partners, right? Support. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: have support and eventually we decided collectively let's move on
Speaker 1: to something else. It's not serving us anymore. We got
Speaker 1: hit so bad during the pandemic. So let's just move
Speaker 1: so
Speaker 2: many like restaurants because in my neighborhood,
Speaker 2: yeah, we have so many like restaurants and we've seen
Speaker 2: the whole change, you know, from a bustling street. Everything
Speaker 2: got so quiet. It felt so weird.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly where you are is the entire stretch, right?
Speaker 1: It's all like nightlife is all like fine dining restaurants.
Speaker 1: Every
Speaker 2: time when we walk to the gym we always see
Speaker 2: people gathering, you know, they're having a good time bustling
Speaker 2: music everywhere. But at that point, you know, the covid
Speaker 2: heightened alert the whole stretch, It was so quiet,
Speaker 1: want to change
Speaker 2: all my neighbors, you know, restaurant owners and stuff, you know,
Speaker 2: we talk to them, you know, and they were all
Speaker 2: very like I would say they already determined that everyone
Speaker 2: was quick to take away.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I saw
Speaker 2: this fine dining restaurant, they just let everything outside the menu,
Speaker 2: you know to say, then people come in to do
Speaker 2: like take away orders and stuff so they just really innovative,
Speaker 1: try to innovate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so really respect to everyone
Speaker 2: push through this time. But those who like, you know,
Speaker 2: decide not to, it's totally fine. It's just like pivoting, right? Yeah, pivoting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so in that sense it was a big
Speaker 1: turning point for me as well when it came to
Speaker 1: co owning a business, right? You have to be prepared
Speaker 1: that it may not work out. And to me it's
Speaker 1: like I don't ever want to, you know, stumble upon
Speaker 1: a moment where it feels like I failed,
Speaker 1: but you don't have to see it as failure. Right? Totally,
Speaker 2: totally. It's a learning experience because now, you know, you
Speaker 2: and your partners might come up with something even more
Speaker 2: exciting when the opportunity comes when someone has the idea.
Speaker 2: It might just click and you might just
Speaker 2: use your previous experience like this. Yeah. And you might
Speaker 2: just elevate and escalate everything up.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, if there's one thing that
Speaker 1: I've learned in being in this industry as well, there's
Speaker 1: so many ups and downs, right? You could be the
Speaker 1: talk of the town today and you could be canceled tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I've had a few close brushes with it. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to lie. You know, and and it's okay. It's
Speaker 1: New Year, New me don't have to bring it up
Speaker 1: in the past.
Speaker 1: But it's certain things that you've experienced that will also
Speaker 1: shape you for who you are in the coming years, right?
Speaker 1: And honestly I am actually in a weird to step
Speaker 1: away right now thankful that I've been through some really
Speaker 1: down moments in my life and you see the real
Speaker 1: people that will stand by you and who are genuine
Speaker 1: and the clients who will back you up knowing who
Speaker 1: you are as a real authentic person
Speaker 2: Yes, I think
Speaker 2: as a business owner, So you tend to start to
Speaker 2: trust lesser people along the way, but you know, along
Speaker 2: that process you also start to realize, you know, like
Speaker 2: you have this support system with you, right? And for yourself,
Speaker 2: just curious like, you
Speaker 1: know, celebrity
Speaker 2: DJ, everyone wants to know, right? Like what's your, when
Speaker 2: you first got into this industry, you know, and you
Speaker 2: see your career rise and stuff, Everything everyone wants to know, like,
Speaker 2: you know, how do you deal with all this, like
Speaker 2: a self
Speaker 2: or will you be more more mindful that you have
Speaker 2: to portray yourself? You have to put yourself in a
Speaker 2: certain way, you know, social media, you know, persona, whenever
Speaker 2: I talk to you have to answer a certain way that,
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: know, the very real answer is that I didn't give
Speaker 1: a sh it at the time, and I still feel
Speaker 1: like social media should be an extension of you and
Speaker 1: not a completely different persona altogether.
Speaker 1: Um obviously I took some time to understand all this, right?
Speaker 1: Because when I just joined the industry, it was the
Speaker 1: beginning of instagram for example, like it started becoming very
Speaker 1: big in Singapore and at that point I was like,
Speaker 1: like I have to join another app, like what, you know,
Speaker 1: you're just like your groaning about it, right? But I
Speaker 1: don't regret it obviously because it has become such a
Speaker 1: big part of our career in our life,
Speaker 1: but you're right to ask whether, you know, I built
Speaker 1: some sort of a wall or some sort of
Speaker 2: facade
Speaker 1: that people only see that, but doing this podcast, even
Speaker 1: doing my own radio program or doing whatever it is
Speaker 1: on social media, I try to keep
Speaker 1: some of myself in it regardless, regardless of what the
Speaker 1: client wants. They may want something that's completely not you,
Speaker 1: but you still have to find a way to weave
Speaker 1: in a little bit of yourself and not lose yourself
Speaker 1: completely right. And I notice that in this journey, this
Speaker 1: very interesting journey in this industry, that is not for everyone.
Speaker 1: I've seen people come and go because they cannot kind
Speaker 1: of find that balance so they cannot handle that and
Speaker 1: that's completely fine as well,
Speaker 1: it's okay to do something and then in a few
Speaker 1: years you realize this isn't for me and move on
Speaker 1: to something else that will make you happier because eventually
Speaker 1: you want to make decisions for yourself, not just for
Speaker 1: everyone around you or for the sake of right?
Speaker 2: I don't agree. Like we all want to build a
Speaker 2: world that is more authentic, right? We all want to
Speaker 2: see that side of each other that is really, you know,
Speaker 2: our daily lives and you know, although of course brands
Speaker 2: look at our social media for like
Speaker 2: engagements and stuff, but we want them to recognize us
Speaker 2: for what we are right? You know, we don't want
Speaker 2: to suddenly do something that this is not really me.
Speaker 2: I'm not actually very funny, but I'm doing like,
Speaker 1: oh my
Speaker 2: God, one week to prepare for this, not what you
Speaker 2: want us to just be ourselves, right? Yeah. So I
Speaker 2: start to recognize that also, I always thought that, you know,
Speaker 2: something
Speaker 2: now, these have Tiktok and everything. Should I create like
Speaker 2: fitness content? That is very funny. Yeah. Is this the
Speaker 2: trend now?
Speaker 1: Like, what can I do?
Speaker 2: Because I'm not a very funny person, you know, and stuff.
Speaker 2: I take things quite seriously. I'm
Speaker 1: not, I'm not saying that you don't take things seriously?
Speaker 1: Clearly he does, but like you're a serious person. You
Speaker 1: don't feel like you're a funny person? I think
Speaker 2: my humor comes in another sense,
Speaker 1: which is fine.
Speaker 1: So what is your type of, you were like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like you like sarcastic dark cuba like
Speaker 2: not even those kind of like maybe a more intimate setting?
Speaker 2: I don't even like to, I don't suddenly crack a
Speaker 2: joke out of nothing. It's just me. But then you
Speaker 2: say you have to portray this
Speaker 1: more slapstick, is it? That's totally
Speaker 2: and like, do I want to create content like that?
Speaker 2: You know, then I tried, you know, some friends and
Speaker 2: stuff they did with me. I was like, okay, that's cool,
Speaker 2: that's on his profile, that's cool, but do I want
Speaker 2: something like that, you know, like I felt that I
Speaker 2: wanted to do something more. Yeah. Yeah. So so like,
Speaker 2: you know, I tried to do some stuff that's really related,
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of like fitness, but it's more me. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so
Speaker 1: it works, it works. If it doesn't then it doesn't right,
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a point of failure, I'm
Speaker 2: not doing it.
Speaker 2: So that really want to get viral or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Just me and I just want to showcase this on me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, you brought up a good point
Speaker 1: like being going viral for example. I think that was
Speaker 1: a point where um it was very toxic for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, especially in our industry because we're so
Speaker 1: fixated on, we must make the next thing go viral. Okay,
Speaker 1: if not we didn't do our job or like we
Speaker 1: failed to do our job, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And I realized that when we joined Tiktok, when we joined,
Speaker 1: when reels came about or like even when I g
Speaker 1: started getting more more prevalent in Singapore, right? If our
Speaker 1: photo doesn't get enough likes or what we're like, should
Speaker 1: I feel on this
Speaker 2: one now? Because the algorithm is better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, it costs a lot of
Speaker 1: us to kind of spiral into that very dark space,
Speaker 1: which please do not spiral okay, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you just create content that is, you
Speaker 2: have fun of it of course with friends and stuff,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 1: it's easier said than done though. I think it's a
Speaker 1: journey to get there.
Speaker 2: I'm always exploring, like to me now, I'm just like
Speaker 2: trying to see what kind of future so called angles
Speaker 2: where to put this and that account photo, whatever. Then
Speaker 2: it's so tiring sometimes if I spend too much time
Speaker 2: on it
Speaker 1: before you wait, six hours went by
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, I see some other like
Speaker 2: influencers and stuff. My friends and stuff, they're very casual
Speaker 2: about it. Don't
Speaker 1: think too much, just
Speaker 2: like you're eating a buffet and you're filming yourself the
Speaker 2: next moment. It's like content is up shout out to
Speaker 2: Royce lee
Speaker 1: who doesn't take things too seriously, totally,
Speaker 2: totally. Yeah. And I think he just, by his actions,
Speaker 2: you teaches me all this.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2: So I thought really quite cool, you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of people around me that they share and I understand
Speaker 2: that you select as a personality that's always
Speaker 2: pressure every day you're wasting about content, you know, everyone else.
Speaker 2: So you always want to, you know, do something you
Speaker 2: mean a friend first thing and let's do a Tiktok
Speaker 2: first sketches trend,
Speaker 1: but we have never said that by the way. Friends
Speaker 1: and my friends would kill me if I ever said
Speaker 1: that because not all of them are in
Speaker 1: the industry, we just want to chill out and catch
Speaker 1: up said that they'd be like, get out of here,
Speaker 1: that's the most
Speaker 2: important right to chill to like meet up bond and
Speaker 2: have like real conversations.
Speaker 1: So to conclude in just a short while would you
Speaker 1: say that the people around you
Speaker 1: really also shaped you and helped you develop like a
Speaker 1: more for example, healthier response to failure. Two goals to
Speaker 1: how you see.
Speaker 2: I think
Speaker 1: accesses your
Speaker 2: milestones. I like to really like surround myself with like
Speaker 2: minded people, positive people, you know, who understands you and
Speaker 2: who are not afraid to give you harsh feedback. Also
Speaker 2: if you need Yeah, I think these are people who
Speaker 2: really keep you grounded no matter
Speaker 2: you know how successful or how famous you get, you know,
Speaker 2: I think we all need this bunch of people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know the day just focus on ourselves, right?
Speaker 2: Give our best and that everything else take place? No,
Speaker 1: no, I completely agree with you. I think that we
Speaker 1: are truly, you know, a reflection of the closest five
Speaker 1: or 10 people that we are with constantly and that
Speaker 1: also reflects on how we deal with things, be it
Speaker 1: success is how we celebrate them, be it, how we,
Speaker 1: you know, mark out our goals and how we handle
Speaker 1: failures or how we also deal with milestones in life.
Speaker 1: I think that is so important that we surround ourselves
Speaker 2: and don't be afraid to speak to people, you know,
Speaker 2: for support for help, anything. I think everyone's willing to learn.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants to help, right? Yeah. And everyone also wants
Speaker 2: to see each other be successful, right?
Speaker 2: Not
Speaker 1: everyone wants to see everyone successful,
Speaker 2: but that's one
Speaker 1: or two haters out there will probably be like,
Speaker 2: it's important to support
Speaker 1: those that matter to you.
Speaker 2: I completely agree. So to everyone, you know, like new year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But also like I would say,
Speaker 1: I would say New year improved me,
Speaker 2: improved me really? Like continuing what has from last year,
Speaker 2: you know, take the lessons that we learned, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2: And just absorb it really resonate inside,
Speaker 2: internalize it. Then take time slowly, you know, strive towards
Speaker 2: the next milestone. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: figured the trick is I don't actually set a New
Speaker 1: year's resolution
Speaker 2: actually. I don't, I
Speaker 1: don't, I don't, I don't know why I stopped doing
Speaker 1: it a long time ago
Speaker 1: because I realized I never achieve anything on that list.
Speaker 1: Like if I just go into the year with like
Speaker 1: a fresh, good, positive perspective and I look back and
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, achieve so much. You look back and
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, like, right? You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes people ask me that I'm like, hmm, I'll try
Speaker 2: to say something, right? Yeah, I'll try to think about it,
Speaker 2: then I'll come with an answer. But this year's my
Speaker 2: answer is next year, maybe two more babies
Speaker 1: really is your wife watching this right now?
Speaker 2: She should watch this
Speaker 2: because I heard that one more baby. One more gym maybe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we try, we try so like this, but it's
Speaker 2: not something that you definitely want to make it happen
Speaker 2: and stuff. It's just like,
Speaker 1: it's like in your peripheral vision. But if it happens,
Speaker 1: you
Speaker 2: just go with the flow and for me that's that.
Speaker 2: All
Speaker 1: right, thank you so much for joining us on this
Speaker 2: for having me, everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm so glad. We also saw a different
Speaker 1: side of you because on instagram, all I see is
Speaker 1: like
Speaker 2: two
Speaker 1: more reps and some of our mutual friends, you know,
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, I got totally like killed by Lucas
Speaker 1: today at the gym that like, oh man, this guy
Speaker 1: is savage.
Speaker 2: People will see that side of me. But then, you know,
Speaker 2: we spend one hour together, you know, we're only posting
Speaker 2: that moment up. But there's a lot more conversations, which
Speaker 2: I hold close to my heart. That's what I would
Speaker 2: like to be a trainer because I like I enjoy
Speaker 2: the conversations, the lesson I learned from
Speaker 1: connections,
Speaker 2: my clients teach me so many things, you know, they
Speaker 2: support me in this entire journey a deck
Speaker 2: as a trainer.
Speaker 1: Honestly, likewise, I feel the same way about our podcast.
Speaker 1: Like I learned so much from, well men obviously I
Speaker 1: always say they have a lot of explaining to do,
Speaker 1: but we learned so much from each other. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us here today and for not
Speaker 1: pressurizing me to go to the gym. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening to this episode of Men explain if
Speaker 1: you enjoyed it, please hit the follow button. We are
Speaker 1: on Spotify and Apple podcast
Speaker 2: also follow its clarity dot code on instagram and Tiktok
Speaker 2: For more content like this, See you next episode. Bye!