Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Men Explained where we really
Speaker 1: dig deep into the differences in the way that men
Speaker 1: and women think.
Speaker 2: Now today we've got a TikTok duo that is very
Speaker 2: popular when they talk about things like gender, they talk
Speaker 2: about opinions, preferences. Let's please welcome our guests today, Nick
Speaker 2: and Chow.
Speaker 1: I think they were quite surprised when you said TikTok duo.
Speaker 2: The reason why I say that is because people are
Speaker 2: very much comfortable and they know you guys now as
Speaker 2: the two of you guys who sit together and talk
Speaker 2: about these kind of things,
Speaker 1: right? I suppose, yeah, but I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: attach myself so strongly to the platform that's just a
Speaker 1: duo can be discussed on any platform. OK guys, we
Speaker 1: always see you, you know, online, but
Speaker 1: How did you guys even start doing this content together
Speaker 1: and decide that this is what we're going to narrow
Speaker 1: in on because we all know by now the type
Speaker 1: of content that you guys do. So how did it
Speaker 1: even start? We're
Speaker 1: friends,
Speaker 2: right? And then one day I was sending her home,
Speaker 2: driving back, and then after that we were talking about
Speaker 2: one of the topics that we were talking about.
Speaker 1: So I like to say that the Genesis is really organic.
Speaker 1: It came from a real conversation we were having. Do
Speaker 1: you remember what this topic was.
Speaker 1: So it was like, what does it mean if he
Speaker 1: likes your IG stories? Can I, can I, what does
Speaker 1: it mean if he likes IG stories? I think it's
Speaker 1: a form of flirting. Yeah, I think it's a form of, like,
Speaker 2: because I like people's stories, right, based on what they're doing.
Speaker 2: I literally just like my friend's story because she was in.
Speaker 2: and I liked it. I went, Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 2: love Cebu. I see it.
Speaker 1: You liked it for context and you messaged her,
Speaker 2: so it's opener, yeah,
Speaker 1: but, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I'm
Speaker 1: interested. OK, for example, right, he's scared you a cute selfie, OK,
Speaker 1: and someone likes it and like you guys just met
Speaker 1: like he's kind of texting you a little bit, but
Speaker 1: you don't really know what it meant. So I was like, Nick.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? I think that even if whoever
Speaker 1: likes not just likes your story, but keeps viewing your
Speaker 1: stories constantly. How do you tell? They always appear at
Speaker 1: the top.
Speaker 2: OK, anyway, we're going to go into our topic today, OK,
Speaker 2: which is misogyny and misan. Do you guys know what
Speaker 2: that is? Misogyny is the hate against females, and then
Speaker 2: is the other one. Let's not use the word hate.
Speaker 2: the word prejudiced, misogyny is prejudice against women and misany
Speaker 2: is prejudiced against men. We're going to keep it at
Speaker 2: that now. Do you think that there is misany and
Speaker 2: misogyny very prevalent in the social media platforms? Yeah, of
Speaker 1: course, Definitely, especially when people are anonymous and they are
Speaker 1: allowed to add their thoughts a lot more freely and
Speaker 1: they don't feel like there's consequences to things that they say.
Speaker 1: They tend to be a lot more carefree with what
Speaker 1: they say and they'll be rude, they'll be, I guess
Speaker 1: like the way that I'm observing your facial expression, I
Speaker 1: feel like you've experienced this quite a bit. I think, OK,
Speaker 1: any any woman on social media will have comments saying
Speaker 1: things like you should do OF. I before
Speaker 1: for what people ask me to do.
Speaker 2: And I was like, yo man, no thank you.
Speaker 1: Do you
Speaker 1: have any examples that you remember? The OF one is
Speaker 1: a really big one or things that go back to
Speaker 1: the kitchen, that sort of thing. Like it's very, very
Speaker 1: they still say that, yeah, but it's not extremely prevalent.
Speaker 1: I feel like at least in my on my platforms thankfully,
Speaker 1: but occasionally you get a couple, uh, most recently I think.
Speaker 1: The very common ones are like OF or like stop yapping,
Speaker 1: then they always say like, oh, women yap a lot
Speaker 1: and stuff,
Speaker 2: yeah. But do you think that's actually misogynistic
Speaker 1: though if they tie it to gender, then yes,
Speaker 2: fair
Speaker 2: fair.
Speaker 1: What about
Speaker 1: you then?
Speaker 2: I think against men there is a lot of uh
Speaker 2: insults by your status in life, like your wealth, how
Speaker 2: you treat women and stuff like that. Like people are
Speaker 2: always tying you to a certain value.
Speaker 2: That they want you to earn this much of money,
Speaker 2: you know, pay for every meal and that kind of thing,
Speaker 2: but I don't necessarily think it's like much of a problem.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't think there's an argument of misogyny versus
Speaker 2: misanry when the whole platform itself is on social media
Speaker 2: is toxic. No, I agree with that. But personally wise,
Speaker 2: have you ever received like comments which you said like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, this sounds like it's coming from a person
Speaker 2: who just does not like men, not about like status generalizing.
Speaker 2: I just men, not so much against you, yeah, against
Speaker 2: me as a person more more often but they tie
Speaker 2: it to gender? I rarely think it's about gender at least.
Speaker 2: For men, I think women have it way worse. So
Speaker 2: if it's not genuinely, what do you think it's about
Speaker 2: or just as a personal individuals.
Speaker 1: It's a personal attack. OK, no, but for you, you've
Speaker 1: addressed these comments before, right? You you have no hesitation
Speaker 1: when it comes to like just going there and replying
Speaker 1: the
Speaker 1: comments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think at some point in time, people
Speaker 2: always think that other people are not allowed an opinion
Speaker 2: just because it's against yours, but like at the same
Speaker 2: time all these platforms they give you a place to
Speaker 2: voice your thoughts, right, and I.
Speaker 2: That's my thoughts really often. I don't think I'm wrong
Speaker 2: to have an opinion just because it's different from the
Speaker 2: general public. But do you ever think that there's a
Speaker 2: line where because you have a following and because people
Speaker 2: see you as a certain kind of influencer and whatnot,
Speaker 2: the way that you respond, people may take it as harmful,
Speaker 2: or people may take it as, oh, he's also a
Speaker 2: very offensive person, or he's also a very hateful person.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 1: have that thought process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 2: could be, it could be, it could be. So why
Speaker 2: I don't tie myself to a legit agency.
Speaker 1: OK,
Speaker 1: no, you brought up a good point.
Speaker 1: Because frankly speaking, I actually think 2 or 3 times
Speaker 1: before I reply or leave a comment. I want so
Speaker 1: badly to reply sometimes to these stupid comments or like
Speaker 1: hate comments or comments about your appearance or whatever. I
Speaker 1: really craft something out and I'm like, bam, this is
Speaker 1: the best comment ever. And then two minutes later I'm
Speaker 1: like delete. I just backspace. So like what sort of
Speaker 1: comments are you replying to? Somebody basically called me very
Speaker 1: flat chested on Instagram, OK, and it was just out there.
Speaker 1: He kept commenting.
Speaker 1: on like all these different pictures that I was posting.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what photos they were or why.
Speaker 1: And then I think some of my followers started to
Speaker 1: like defend me on my platform, right? They were like,
Speaker 1: You're so rude, get off. And then it started this
Speaker 1: whole argument in the comment section and I wanted so
Speaker 1: bad to go in there and type something really like
Speaker 1: witty and I just decided to delete the whole thread.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. I because I feel
Speaker 1: that I need to put more thought process into it,
Speaker 1: you know, and then if I'm so harmful then, what
Speaker 1: if he gets
Speaker 1: Affected and why did you delete it then I just
Speaker 1: decided that I didn't want to get into it at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. I was like forget it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not worth my energy because if I reply, he's
Speaker 1: going to reply. All these people are going to continue
Speaker 1: chiming in and it just will never be the end
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: It's a
Speaker 2: good thing that you said that because the next question
Speaker 2: I want to say, right, just back on this, right.
Speaker 2: Do you think that kind of fuels you? Uh, not really.
Speaker 2: So you, you honestly just replied because you want to
Speaker 2: just I just. So the question that I want to ask, right,
Speaker 2: is that.
Speaker 2: Obviously as a woman, when you say certain things, right,
Speaker 2: sometimes people would say it's pretty bold statement when you
Speaker 2: guys talk about certain opinions, certain preferences together, as pretty bold.
Speaker 2: How do you deal with backlash when sometimes people disagree
Speaker 2: with that and maybe even if it comes from a woman,
Speaker 2: especially if it comes from another woman, how do you
Speaker 2: deal with
Speaker 2: that backlash?
Speaker 1: I think there was like a video that we talked
Speaker 1: about cheating. The
Speaker 2: context is if your friend cheats, do you help tell
Speaker 2: their partner.
Speaker 1: OK, and what did you say? I think I said
Speaker 1: that I would talk to the friend first before intervening
Speaker 1: because it's not my relationship. Yeah and then people were like,
Speaker 1: you're not a girl's girl because of that. Oh, OK,
Speaker 1: I have a very different definition of a girl's girl
Speaker 1: because sometimes these things happen within our friend groups and
Speaker 1: if you truly are very good friends with each other,
Speaker 1: you also want to state your views, right, because I
Speaker 1: think it affects the friendship also.
Speaker 1: So it's like I think my thought process was I
Speaker 1: would talk to the friend and let them know my
Speaker 1: thoughts about this and how my values are different and
Speaker 1: they get to choose what they want to do next.
Speaker 1: So eventually if it prolongs and they don't do anything
Speaker 1: about it, they still continue cheating, then that affects my
Speaker 1: friendship with them because of the different values. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it also takes a while to explain these sorts of
Speaker 1: concepts sometimes and TikTok videos, Instagram reels, they're all very
Speaker 1: short form and they might just watch like 10 seconds
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 2: we
Speaker 2: probably like 20-30 minutes worth of stuff that we condense
Speaker 2: into one minute and there's a lot of context that
Speaker 2: gets taken out because of brevity and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But we only had maybe a few videos that got
Speaker 1: really bad backlash. That was like the main one I think.
Speaker 1: But how do you guys then prevent after something like
Speaker 1: that happens? Do you guys think like, OK, the next
Speaker 1: video that we put out, should we change the way
Speaker 1: that we craft certain things or you're just like
Speaker 1: Whatever. These are our views. I don't care.
Speaker 2: That's my stance lah. OK,
Speaker 1: I will tweak it a little bit just to, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I will just make sure that the tone and
Speaker 1: the messaging is still positive overall, that there's still valuable
Speaker 1: takeaways from it. If it's just a video to incite
Speaker 1: more hate and to stir more conversation of like emotions
Speaker 1: and anger into rage, then what's the point? Like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't do that. That's why this balance works out because
Speaker 1: I think Nick is a very, uh, I'll just say
Speaker 1: one kind of person and then I'll be like, hold up.
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to. Has anyone ever approached you in
Speaker 1: real life, like in person to be like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: really hated what you said. I love a lot,
Speaker 2: a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot despite sometimes getting negative comments blown out of proportion,
Speaker 1: in real life, people are like, oh, I love your
Speaker 1: stuff and it's always the hate.
Speaker 1: loudest online and they don't dare to even look at
Speaker 1: us they're the same
Speaker 2: people actually. I realized after a while I click that
Speaker 2: it's the same person commenting video A, B, C, same person.
Speaker 2: I go see other user account, right? There's a comment
Speaker 2: on all my other friends.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 1: guess we should thank them for interactions. I suppose one
Speaker 1: of the comments that it's related to misogyny would be
Speaker 1: about my relationship status. I think as someone that's in
Speaker 1: my late twenties and
Speaker 1: As a girl, people always put my value to my
Speaker 1: relationship status, right? So that comes in the comments now
Speaker 1: and then I think there was a video about like
Speaker 1: what a child's weaknesses, for example, and then they're like
Speaker 1: child is too picky, that's why she's single. Nobody wants
Speaker 1: her and stuff, but I don't know if that's like
Speaker 1: gender specific also because it can go both ways. So
Speaker 1: on that note, I've got friends who are like 30 already,
Speaker 1: they are still single or just broke up, you know.
Speaker 1: So he's
Speaker 1: Yes, but you're also single now, OK, and if you
Speaker 1: also actually, so for my girlfriends who are like, let's
Speaker 1: say in their 30s already who are not in a
Speaker 1: relationship and they're still single, versus men who are in
Speaker 1: their 30s and are single, the perception I feel is
Speaker 1: very different for sure because it's like, oh man, are
Speaker 1: you OK? Like you're still in your prime. Like 30s,
Speaker 1: you only be in your prime when you're like close
Speaker 1: to 40, you're good, but for girls it's like.
Speaker 1: I expired already I think yeah 30+ is over. But
Speaker 1: I do want to say I feel that that's changing
Speaker 1: a little bit. I hope so over time and that
Speaker 1: even if you're single in your 30s, it's totally fine.
Speaker 1: And I feel like there's more representation of single women
Speaker 1: who are just killing it in life online and this
Speaker 1: just makes it overall seem a lot more normal and acceptable.
Speaker 1: In fact, the perceived value of single women in their
Speaker 1: thirties who are highly successful in their own right, right.
Speaker 1: It's even higher now because we don't play games, yeah,
Speaker 1: and honestly like I think at that age it's just
Speaker 1: if you want to date you date properly already, you
Speaker 1: just don't waste your time. That's why you're,
Speaker 2: I get all the time because I'm all the time
Speaker 2: that's why he's still it's like permanent one. But when
Speaker 2: you say that, where do you think this is coming
Speaker 2: from because bringing it back to.
Speaker 2: And misogyny, right? Like you said, the girls nowadays is
Speaker 2: a bit different. I guess misogyny is not that prevalent
Speaker 2: as it was like 20-30 years ago, but it's mercenary
Speaker 2: then now more prevalent, be it in online, in in
Speaker 2: real life, that you feel that these people are saying
Speaker 2: these things to you just because they don't like
Speaker 2: you. I,
Speaker 2: to analyze whether it's gender specific or not. So here's
Speaker 2: something that I've seen online quite a bit is that
Speaker 2: there are people commenting.
Speaker 2: trends, they have little TikTok videos of women saying things like, oh,
Speaker 2: men are trash, you know, or not all men, but men.
Speaker 2: You know, some men but men, that kind of trend
Speaker 2: is so prevalently misanderistic, right, that it's got nothing to
Speaker 2: do with anything other than the fact that a guy
Speaker 2: can't seem to do things right. Have you personally? I
Speaker 2: don't think it's personally attacked, but I do feel like it's.
Speaker 2: Fair, right, because TikTok, Instagram, like social media is so
Speaker 2: influential that it has influenced relationships, it influences work, it
Speaker 2: influences all these things exactly right. And when you have
Speaker 2: people who have a certain status, a certain type of influence, right,
Speaker 2: and they share things like this, you know, oh, my
Speaker 2: boyfriend didn't buy me flowers on the second date, men
Speaker 2: kind of thing, right? People are going to be like, oh, then.
Speaker 2: Should I be receiving flowers on my second day? And
Speaker 2: if then this person doesn't do it, is he just
Speaker 2: like every other person?
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny because I I I clearly
Speaker 1: I'm not an overthinker. I don't know, but I never
Speaker 1: thought in that.
Speaker 1: Line of, I never had that line of thought like
Speaker 1: he didn't buy me flowers. Yeah, like I never really
Speaker 1: thought about it. I don't
Speaker 2: know that as an example.
Speaker 1: I get it. I guess it depends on how you
Speaker 1: consume that also. So if you consume that and think
Speaker 1: that oh this is applied to all men now as
Speaker 1: compared to like, oh, she's very critical and she demands
Speaker 1: flowers for her own date.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you see, the difference is that people don't
Speaker 2: think the same way that you think and the majority
Speaker 2: of the people online will take what people say as
Speaker 2: is
Speaker 1: kind
Speaker 2: of
Speaker 1: like group
Speaker 2: mentality.
Speaker 1: I mean,
Speaker 2: it's the same thing right when you guys do content,
Speaker 2: you would tell as well that a lot of people,
Speaker 2: they have the same kind of opinions. They take it
Speaker 2: as it is.
Speaker 1: I don't know what algorithm you have, right, but my
Speaker 1: algorithm doesn't really show me too much men hate, which
Speaker 1: is a good thing I guess. But when I do
Speaker 1: see these comments, they are always tagged to some sort
Speaker 1: of violence, violent crimes, and I feel like that's where
Speaker 1: it becomes a heavier discussion also and that's the reason
Speaker 1: why people say, I think I saw a line once
Speaker 1: that I felt strongly for it was not all men,
Speaker 1: but it's always a men in relation to violent crimes.
Speaker 1: And what about cheating? No, not so much because
Speaker 1: it's like I was gonna say
Speaker 2: it's a thing as well. I see a lot more.
Speaker 2: Have you seen a TikTok that uh like girlies comment,
Speaker 2: the worst thing a Singaporean guy has done to you
Speaker 2: that TikTok, he's like 1,000,000,000
Speaker 1: comments, it's crazy. There's so many stories are insane.
Speaker 2: Some of the stories are insane, but some of them
Speaker 2: are also, like I said, very minuscule things like, oh,
Speaker 2: he didn't want to pay for the first date.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like
Speaker 2: 000. 0, he showed up to our first date in shorts.
Speaker 2: I would wear shorts to a first date.
Speaker 1: I think he would. I actually
Speaker 2: would. I still wear shorts and slippers to go to town.
Speaker 2: What do you mean? No, you see what I mean.
Speaker 2: So it's really two different spectrums, right? And like bringing
Speaker 2: it back to you guys. Is this something that you
Speaker 2: guys understand and you see on social media? And if
Speaker 2: you do, how do you as this duo, talk about it?
Speaker 2: Or do you guys address? Yeah, do you address it
Speaker 2: at all? Every time we come out with a.
Speaker 2: We always discuss it a bit beforehand, like to see
Speaker 2: what stands we are at and whether it's different for
Speaker 2: both of us because it doesn't make sense if both
Speaker 2: of us have the same thought. Then after that we
Speaker 2: just sound like one robot, right? So we tend to
Speaker 2: have opposing views on some things. Sometimes if I feel
Speaker 2: lightly about this, but she feels heavier about the other thing,
Speaker 2: then I would take on the other stance from another
Speaker 2: point of view, not necessarily that I fully believe in it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's how we kind of balance it out.
Speaker 1: Do you guys ever find yourselves getting caught in a
Speaker 1: real argument, you know, you're doing and then it
Speaker 1: Develops into a real disagreement. We just chill. Yeah, actually
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good balance that we have.
Speaker 1: We are able to have really good open conversations with
Speaker 1: each other. We have had arguments before as friends, but
Speaker 1: not in the context of like, yeah, the content. I
Speaker 1: want to get your thoughts on this. What do you
Speaker 1: think about the whole I hate men culture
Speaker 2: then? Specifically in Singapore, when they say Singaporean men are trash, right,
Speaker 2: then you'll be like, oh, but I'm a Singaporean man.
Speaker 2: Are they really trash?
Speaker 2: Actually what my favorite first date question is what is
Speaker 2: your worst date? Wow, it's actually really quite treasure. I, I,
Speaker 2: I say most guys really don't know how to behave
Speaker 2: on a date. I think basic respect, uh, first off,
Speaker 2: like dressing, uh, we do not wear shorts in when
Speaker 2: the girl, I disagree when the girl puts in effort
Speaker 2: to dress up and you don't at least match her
Speaker 2: like that. Let me give context, right? If let's say
Speaker 2: we go on a night date and I say that,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to bring you up.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to bring out for drinks. Of
Speaker 2: course I will dress up nicely. If you say, oh,
Speaker 2: let's go grab a coffee on a Sunday afternoon. I
Speaker 2: said I said her, you heard the line. I said
Speaker 2: match her. Yeah, imagine I show up like in jeans
Speaker 2: and she shows up in an FBT and an oversized t-shirt. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's happened to me before and then I call her out, right?
Speaker 2: So it depends. And
Speaker 1: you didn't have a second date, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, yeah. She wears sports shoes, jean yellow color t-shirt.
Speaker 2: I remember exactly what she wear. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: I took 1 hour to pick up my outfit,
Speaker 1: bro.
Speaker 1: OK, so since quite a number of us don't really
Speaker 1: get this on our FYP very much, right, here are
Speaker 1: some examples, and the first one being, why are you
Speaker 1: such a man hater? Have you seen
Speaker 2: anything like this? God forbid I have a hobby. I
Speaker 1: know this trend. That's a terrible thing to say because
Speaker 1: like this trend is supposed to make light of like
Speaker 1: a habit that they have, right? And to say that
Speaker 1: this is a hobby is wild. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: actually really like men.
Speaker 2: I've been your friend for long enough though. I can confirm.
Speaker 2: I can confirm
Speaker 1: like same if hating men was a job. This is
Speaker 1: me loving men was a job,
Speaker 2: we get it. Jeez. I do think people jump on
Speaker 2: the bandwagon quite a fair bit, right? And that obviously
Speaker 2: not all men are trash, right, but honestly, most men
Speaker 2: are pretty much trash.
Speaker 1: Well, you said it's jumping on a,
Speaker 2: let me ask you this then, Nick, do you consider yourself?
Speaker 2: A girl's guy for saying that. Like, do you think
Speaker 2: you agree with the majority of women because you're saying,
Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah, I agree that most guys are trash.
Speaker 2: Based on the stories I've heard and the sample size,
Speaker 2: I can agree that most guys are trash. So would
Speaker 2: you say that you believe yourself to be the upper percentile?
Speaker 2: I always tell people I thought 5% of so fucking arrogant.
Speaker 2: Oh my God. There's obviously going to be topics and
Speaker 2: opinions from other people about everybody here because we're so
Speaker 2: prevalent on social media and people's opinions sometimes don't matter.
Speaker 2: 100%. But has anybody ever called you a misogynist, you
Speaker 2: a misanderist? Same for you. Has anybody ever said this
Speaker 2: to your face?
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 1: I do want to say that Miss Andre isn't really
Speaker 1: a word used in Singapore social media. In fact, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't really understand the context
Speaker 1: of it or the meaning of it, yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: when I went to look it up, I saw so
Speaker 1: many people talk about how Miss Andre isn't even real
Speaker 1: and that a lot of it perpetuated because of patriarchy
Speaker 1: and the expectations of patriarchy. So how patriarchy had pushed for.
Speaker 1: Things like men having to be taller. That was something
Speaker 1: that men wanted to be because if you are short,
Speaker 1: then you are likened to having feminine traits and they
Speaker 1: don't they frown upon feminine traits. Therefore, it is so
Speaker 1: that's the thing. So if a girl goes like, I
Speaker 1: will only date a guy if he's like 180, where
Speaker 1: did she get this thought from? Is it from her
Speaker 1: own hate of men or is it because of the
Speaker 1: expectations of patriarchy?
Speaker 2: And I get that, but I still do think that
Speaker 2: as time progresses, right, we see misogy.
Speaker 2: back in like the 1950s as violent, right? It has
Speaker 2: progressed to being a bit different in this day and age,
Speaker 2: but Mendy has become such a big thing and it's
Speaker 2: even unknown that it is misanderism. Wait, is it a
Speaker 2: big thing? Why is it a big thing? So why
Speaker 2: was misogyny a big thing back then? Because men have
Speaker 2: more
Speaker 2: power than women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people actually dying.
Speaker 2: I
Speaker 2: mean in the age of social media as well, right?
Speaker 2: People don't talk about men's health and in this day
Speaker 2: and age.
Speaker 2: And women are such a big part of life in
Speaker 2: every aspect. There's so much empowerment to them as well
Speaker 2: that I do feel that there are certain times where
Speaker 2: misanderism is such a real thing that men also realize,
Speaker 2: oh shit, you know, I am not enough for. To
Speaker 2: give a
Speaker 1: very simple example, I feel like men are not seen
Speaker 1: as people who really like give up that much emotion
Speaker 1: or show as much emotion, right? I think I've definitely
Speaker 1: witnessed this before like in groups when we hang out,
Speaker 1: watch movies, maybe there's like a bit of a moving scene.
Speaker 1: And maybe one of my guy friends like like looks
Speaker 1: like he's tearing up or something. Then one of the
Speaker 1: girls goes like, don't cry, be a man la, you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Would that be considered?
Speaker 2: I think
Speaker 1: that's toxic, not necessarily a hate towards men.
Speaker 1: You don't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think a meanderistic comment are
Speaker 2: things like basically this whole trend of like, you know,
Speaker 2: men are trash, like what is.
Speaker 2: The reasoning for men are trash because we wear shorts
Speaker 2: to dates because we don't pay for the meals, because
Speaker 2: we don't earn enough money. Like all that to me
Speaker 2: is a cultural stigma that has become a norm. I
Speaker 2: don't believe in. It doesn't exist. You don't think that exists? No,
Speaker 2: because men are in power. Patriarchal society.
Speaker 2: You feel this way because suddenly a bit of power
Speaker 2: is stripped away from the male person. No, I disagree.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's ever been a situation where power
Speaker 2: has been stripped away. When you talk about insulting somebody
Speaker 2: or you talk about, you know, being mean to a person,
Speaker 2: there's no power being taken away, but it's never been
Speaker 2: tied to our gender, you see. What do you mean?
Speaker 2: insult me in a centristic way, but go ahead, go
Speaker 2: for it. No, no, no, but the thing is that
Speaker 2: that's not the point, right, because if, if a man
Speaker 2: hits another man.
Speaker 2: It is obviously just you're a woman now, you're a
Speaker 2: woman now. You have long hair. Let it down, let
Speaker 2: it down. So, so we'll say it this way, right?
Speaker 2: If let's say a person comes to you online or
Speaker 2: whatever and they go, oh, you're just a typical man
Speaker 2: because you go out with girls and you know, you
Speaker 2: just anyhow date them. Then, then.
Speaker 2: There's no point in that. There's no insult, but you
Speaker 2: don't feel it. Some people will, some people won't. So
Speaker 2: it's always contextual. So meanderism will exist in a space
Speaker 2: where people accept meanderism. So you as a person don't
Speaker 2: believe me I don't think any insult a man is
Speaker 2: tied to because you're a man, you know.
Speaker 2: I will give you an example, right? I hopefully she's
Speaker 2: not watching this, but one of my sister's friends, right,
Speaker 2: I don't want to give too much context, right? But
Speaker 2: she was a full on mertenist for a period of time,
Speaker 2: and I called her out on it. It's a situation
Speaker 2: where she was dating a girl and she straight up
Speaker 2: just anything that had to do with men. She was like, ah, typical,
Speaker 1: OK, but is it based on her own bad experiences.
Speaker 2: She's dating a guy.
Speaker 1: That means previously she must have had dated guys that
Speaker 1: gave her a bad experience,
Speaker 2: right,
Speaker 2: and I agree, right? But to generalize the whole problem, right,
Speaker 2: that is where the problem lies because you can't generalize
Speaker 2: a problem and that's what she did. She generalized the
Speaker 2: problem and that's why I'm trying to get it, right?
Speaker 2: You're saying that it doesn't exist because you don't acknowledge
Speaker 2: the fact that it exists and that's fine, but to
Speaker 2: acknowledge the fact that Msanderism is real is just as equally.
Speaker 2: Important to say that misogyny is real as well.
Speaker 1: I see
Speaker 1: your point. Yeah, I think that's OK. I suppose it
Speaker 1: just depends on like the prevalence of each and you
Speaker 1: just happen to have this very personal experience, yeah, experience
Speaker 1: with it. I have heard this a couple of times,
Speaker 1: especially in the
Speaker 1: Uh, lesbian community, right? They always say this, they're always
Speaker 1: like men are trash or like, oh, men are worse
Speaker 1: than women and stuff, and I didn't realize this until
Speaker 1: I heard what you said, but my response had always been,
Speaker 1: why do you generalize? And why do you say this?
Speaker 1: Like it's not all but some, but it doesn't mean all.
Speaker 1: So I have actually encouraged like uh my friends who
Speaker 1: have these views to go and make friends with more
Speaker 1: straight men. I've literally said that and I go to
Speaker 1: the people.
Speaker 1: See them hanging out with a straight guy, literally I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, straight friends, straight men friends, you know,
Speaker 1: like there are great straight men and I think I
Speaker 1: understand your point about how if it is a bigger
Speaker 1: scale problem, if this gets even more out of hand,
Speaker 1: if more people adopt this mindset, then it could lead
Speaker 1: to very negative sentiments of like very unnecessary negativity also.
Speaker 1: But I guess at the end of the day, right,
Speaker 1: like very broad thing to say, I know. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I think just don't generalize.
Speaker 1: people for their gender, their race, whatever. Frankly, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you are getting to know a person, get to
Speaker 1: know the person. Yeah, based on your own personal experience,
Speaker 1: that's it. For example, when one of my besties hates
Speaker 1: on her ex, we hate on her ex, not men,
Speaker 1: if you get what I mean, he is an MCP
Speaker 1: but we're like, yeah, he's such an MCP.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it becomes a situation where if you have this
Speaker 2: thought process, right, and a new person comes into your life,
Speaker 2: you're always going to have an initial idea.
Speaker 2: Already, you know, or I've dated Singaporean men and these
Speaker 2: are the situations. I'm going to be pretty much just
Speaker 2: expect the same kind of treatment and whatnot and you
Speaker 2: got to look past all that, right? And if you don't,
Speaker 2: that's when this whole misogyny slash misanderism comes in because
Speaker 2: you're like, OK, you know, I already have a generalized
Speaker 2: idea and that's what I'm going to believe in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know people's reactions on social media are always
Speaker 1: going to be like that because I still remember this
Speaker 1: episode of Manic Explain we did before you came on board, right?
Speaker 1: This is with Aiden actually, when he made a statement
Speaker 1: about how Singaporean men don't make an effort to dress up.
Speaker 1: We incited so much hate against us in the comment
Speaker 1: section because all the Singaporean men who are active on
Speaker 1: TikTok were like slamming us like mad and they seemed
Speaker 1: quite hurt or butt hurt about this comment.
Speaker 2: I think
Speaker 2: this argument of the Singaporean men dress up is very prevalent, right?
Speaker 2: And it's true. You dress like trash.
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to say that there's a reason
Speaker 1: why Uniqlo literally calls their t-shirt the Singapore man outfit,
Speaker 1: like the Singaporean uniform. There are reasons for why people
Speaker 1: have these views, but it definitely isn't generalized. And when
Speaker 1: you talk about these things online, you tend to just
Speaker 1: like sweeping statements, right.
Speaker 2: Majority just for comfort is true and practicality is true.
Speaker 2: Is that a bad thing? No, but is it objectively fashionable?
Speaker 2: It's
Speaker 2: not.
Speaker 1: Then the question is, who are these guys who are
Speaker 1: like very angry and riled up?
Speaker 2: I don't think it's
Speaker 2: not being angry or triggered by this. I think it's acknowledging, right?
Speaker 2: It's acknowledging that there is.
Speaker 2: Mercenary in the world, right? It really is. It doesn't
Speaker 2: have to make me angry. It doesn't have to make
Speaker 2: me want to hurt women. It doesn't make me want
Speaker 2: to do anything. It just has to be an acknowledgement
Speaker 2: that this is a problem. Why is it a problem? Again,
Speaker 2: people get influenced easily online, 9,000+ people, sure, fraction of
Speaker 2: the world, but if 9,000+ people are thinking this way, right,
Speaker 2: that's going to spread and it's going to become a problem.
Speaker 2: There are people who are not as confident as you, right?
Speaker 2: The people who are a little bit less confident.
Speaker 2: And when they see this, they're going to be like,
Speaker 2: you see, I can't do anything, right? And then I'm
Speaker 2: literally going to never find a girlfriend because they all
Speaker 2: hate guys. Everything I do is wrong. It's it's a
Speaker 2: slippery slope.
Speaker 1: I've I've,
Speaker 2: yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah. I suppose as people who do stuff on social media,
Speaker 1: we post things, we talk about things and we have communities, right?
Speaker 1: We just have to be careful about the things that
Speaker 1: we say and which is also why I go back
Speaker 1: to if I had a chance to say that we
Speaker 1: cannot generalize, that's where I always come in and put
Speaker 1: in that thought. No, I love that you.
Speaker 1: brought that up because I think as people who create content,
Speaker 1: you guys post so much, you know, videos and content,
Speaker 1: you think we got a duty as well to try
Speaker 1: and keep the peace there or it's hard to say that.
Speaker 1: I would love if all publishers, all creators, anyone with
Speaker 1: a social media presence, right, thought about this, but most
Speaker 1: people are just optimizing to get the most views you
Speaker 1: want and then they say like controversial things.
Speaker 2: I
Speaker 2: think on TikTok or Instagram, a lot of people.
Speaker 2: People do things for the views and I think when
Speaker 2: they get a certain amount of validation when they are
Speaker 2: hitting on a certain group of people, whether it's men
Speaker 2: or women, they will continually do stuff because they seek validation, right,
Speaker 2: which is why uh half of the people that post
Speaker 2: on social media do post on social media. It's because
Speaker 2: they get a like that they normally wouldn't get.
Speaker 1: They just
Speaker 1: want people to agree with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. The same reason why someone posts a comment
Speaker 2: and then when it gets likes, they get very filled
Speaker 2: up and then they continue posting hate comments again and
Speaker 2: again and again and again.
Speaker 2: So does it really matter in the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 2: not really, la, because they might not even feel that way,
Speaker 2: you know, you reply to them and then after it's
Speaker 2: only like change 180 and then like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: completely misread your post, then I'm sorry, but are they
Speaker 2: going to delete the comment because he already has 1000 likes? No, yeah,
Speaker 2: so let's say now I'm in a picnic and then
Speaker 2: after that I'm hanging out with some guy friends and
Speaker 2: then I have a bunch of girls over there and
Speaker 2: then one girl just goes, I hate all men.
Speaker 2: Then what are we going to do? I'll ask her why,
Speaker 2: why you hate explain. Talk to me. If you want
Speaker 2: to figure out where the source of hate come from, right?
Speaker 2: Is it your past experiences? But she never said she
Speaker 2: hate you there, so why does it matter? No, but
Speaker 2: she's now openly we are in a social setting, right?
Speaker 2: She's throwing out a topic. Yeah, we are here to
Speaker 2: discuss and debate. That's what I love to do, right?
Speaker 2: If you ask me a question like I hate all apples,
Speaker 2: I'll ask you why. So contextual, it's contextual. OK, well,
Speaker 2: let me bring it to this then, right, since we're
Speaker 2: talking about receiving hate and
Speaker 2: All these things. Social media is obviously a place where
Speaker 2: we cannot control what people say about us. We can't
Speaker 2: control comments, but what do you guys think the difference
Speaker 2: between cancel culture and constructive criticism from people watching you
Speaker 2: is when you say like, OK, this is actually a
Speaker 2: good point, versus this person just doesn't like me and
Speaker 2: it's damn obvious. I think people often hide behind constructive
Speaker 2: criticism like, oh, I'm here to insult you to make
Speaker 2: you better, but they just want to cancel you most
Speaker 2: of the bullshit. But do you think cancel culture is
Speaker 2: like a little bit higher.
Speaker 2: constructive criticism in the sense that they would put in
Speaker 2: more effort to make you look bad rather than just
Speaker 2: dropping a comment.
Speaker 1: I think it's baby steps, right? It's like the frequency,
Speaker 1: the quantity of the comments that are coming through and
Speaker 1: how many times they're commenting on all the other videos
Speaker 1: that you have. Does it seem? Yeah, if it's really
Speaker 1: just like you're ugly, it's a personal attack for no reason,
Speaker 1: like not really about your views or your opinions, not
Speaker 1: a discussion, not trying to engage with you at all,
Speaker 1: but just to insult you, then I think that's very clear,
Speaker 1: just canceling, just trying to
Speaker 1: Get you off the internet, I guess, or like to
Speaker 1: hurt your feelings. OK, so sometimes you do get, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have ever received DMs or
Speaker 1: anything on constructive criticism, right? Do you feel like people
Speaker 1: mean it more from a good place when they like
Speaker 1: privately tell you like, hey, you know, like I like
Speaker 1: your content, but maybe this post didn't sit too well.
Speaker 1: We just want to let you know. I think that
Speaker 1: sounds reasonable versus like just directly putting it on a
Speaker 1: public platform immediately that I feel has a bit of
Speaker 1: intention already because you want other people to see it,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I know it doesn't matter whether it's private or public,
Speaker 2: but sometimes it's like the tone and the whole messaging. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes you can see that people come with a bit
Speaker 2: of heart and then you're like, OK, I'm sorry, let's
Speaker 2: address this, then we'll talk about it for a while.
Speaker 2: I mean, people can still DM you and be like, Hey,
Speaker 2: go off yourself kind of thing, right? So it comes
Speaker 2: off the same way. I think he's completely right. It's
Speaker 2: the approach to the comment and approach to the
Speaker 1: DM. So I guess at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's not really about taking sides. I think for all
Speaker 1: of us, we have a certain amount of responsibility on
Speaker 1: the kind of content.
Speaker 1: We want to put out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it really isn't about being right. It's an honest opinion.
Speaker 2: There's no right. Honestly, it's an opinion, but also I
Speaker 2: feel like it's having a very safe and you know,
Speaker 2: an open opinion about that one.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 1: think it is dangerous if people are really pushing for
Speaker 1: very polarizing views and they're breeding this sort of like discussion,
Speaker 1: but that's why Nick and I always choose to have
Speaker 1: opposing views where we discuss and we show that, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's balanced instead of just stirring the pot. If we
Speaker 1: have
Speaker 1: Same view about something we usually don't talk about it.
Speaker 1: I completely agree. This is why Aves and I always
Speaker 1: have opposing views.
Speaker 2: That's why we're on. Thank you guys so much for
Speaker 2: watching yet another episode and thank you, Chow and Nick
Speaker 2: for joining us today. We really do hope that you've
Speaker 2: enjoyed this and make sure that you follow us on
Speaker 2: all our socials at its clarity.com.
Speaker 1: Yes, if you're tuning into us and not watching this
Speaker 1: YouTube video, you can log on to Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or Meliten and we'll catch you next.
Speaker 1: Good boy.