1 00:00:02,970 --> 00:00:05,159 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:10,159 --> 00:00:13,149 Speaker 1: There are some places in the world where violence and 3 00:00:13,148 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: conflict reside, where people have learned. 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: That rebuilding is the only certainty. One of those places 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,559 Speaker 1: is the Bangsamoro region in the southern Philippines. It's made 6 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:27,860 Speaker 1: up of 5 provinces, 3 other component cities, and dozens 7 00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: of villages that separately voted for their inclusion, known as 8 00:00:31,639 --> 00:00:34,958 Speaker 1: the Special Geographic Area. A deal was signed between the 9 00:00:34,959 --> 00:00:39,590 Speaker 1: Philippine government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, or MILF 10 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:40,759 Speaker 1: in 2014. 11 00:00:41,220 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: But the violence hasn't ended. Years into the transition process, 12 00:00:46,330 --> 00:00:51,090 Speaker 1: recurring clashes and security woes continue to hound parts of 13 00:00:51,090 --> 00:00:56,169 Speaker 1: the conflict-ridden region like this clash early this year. Flare-ups 14 00:00:56,169 --> 00:00:59,450 Speaker 1: are causing concern as the region heads towards its first 15 00:00:59,450 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: ever elections set for October. 16 00:01:02,139 --> 00:01:05,139 Speaker 1: This week CNA's Buena Bernal joins me to talk about 17 00:01:05,139 --> 00:01:08,660 Speaker 1: the Bangsamoro region and why some are worried that its 18 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:12,449 Speaker 1: hard fought peace may not last. Hi Buena, welcome back. 19 00:01:12,660 --> 00:01:15,339 Speaker 1: Happy to be here and speak with you again. This 20 00:01:15,339 --> 00:01:17,940 Speaker 1: is a great example of how sometimes, you know, as 21 00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:20,940 Speaker 1: a journalist, you can expect to tell one story, but 22 00:01:20,940 --> 00:01:24,900 Speaker 1: you get thrust into the telling of another. Initially, I 23 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:27,419 Speaker 1: understand you wanted to look at the transition from terrorism 24 00:01:27,419 --> 00:01:29,709 Speaker 1: to tourism in Sulu province, but then 25 00:01:29,949 --> 00:01:33,529 Speaker 1: That all changed because something happened in January. That's right. 26 00:01:33,779 --> 00:01:37,139 Speaker 1: Violence erupted in January on the island province of Basilan, 27 00:01:37,220 --> 00:01:40,300 Speaker 1: that's one of the five provinces you mentioned. That's part 28 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:43,889 Speaker 1: of what's called the Bangsamoro Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindao, 29 00:01:44,139 --> 00:01:48,300 Speaker 1: which was given autonomy by verge of that 2014 landmark 30 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:52,260 Speaker 1: peace deal that led to a 2018 law that led 31 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:55,779 Speaker 1: to a 2019 plebiscite on which localities will be part 32 00:01:55,779 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: of the region. 33 00:01:56,847 --> 00:02:02,017 Speaker 1: Last January 22, members of the Philippine military were attacked 34 00:02:02,307 --> 00:02:07,227 Speaker 1: by lawless elements. These army troopers were tasked to escort 35 00:02:07,227 --> 00:02:11,988 Speaker 1: humanitarian workers from the United Nations, and that attack led 36 00:02:11,988 --> 00:02:16,268 Speaker 1: to a 30 minute firefight. It's worthy to note that 37 00:02:16,268 --> 00:02:20,707 Speaker 1: Basilan as a province has actually undergone significant strides in 38 00:02:20,707 --> 00:02:23,587 Speaker 1: terms of stability building. The last class. 39 00:02:24,195 --> 00:02:29,234 Speaker 1: Of this scale was in 2022, but that clash in 40 00:02:29,235 --> 00:02:33,255 Speaker 1: January led to 4 dead. Two of them were soldiers 41 00:02:33,255 --> 00:02:38,076 Speaker 1: and 12 others were wounded. They were started by what 42 00:02:38,436 --> 00:02:44,876 Speaker 1: peace and security advocates called peace spoilers, lawless elements, but 43 00:02:44,876 --> 00:02:48,835 Speaker 1: sources I spoke to said some 50 state troopers eventually 44 00:02:48,835 --> 00:02:50,555 Speaker 1: ended up fighting against some 7. 45 00:02:50,613 --> 00:02:54,604 Speaker 1: Armed community members and most of them was from the 46 00:02:54,604 --> 00:02:59,044 Speaker 1: Moro Islamic Liberation Front, or MILF. That's the country's largest 47 00:02:59,044 --> 00:03:03,354 Speaker 1: Muslim rebel group that is in an ongoing peace process 48 00:03:03,643 --> 00:03:06,494 Speaker 1: with the national government. So I had to piece together 49 00:03:06,494 --> 00:03:09,883 Speaker 1: that narrative from different witnesses on the grounds who said 50 00:03:09,883 --> 00:03:13,544 Speaker 1: that troops were fired at even as they were extricating 51 00:03:13,544 --> 00:03:17,222 Speaker 1: their wounded and dead. And there's an indigenous concept called pente. 52 00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:21,981 Speaker 1: which refers to the well known Filipino spirit of community action. 53 00:03:22,212 --> 00:03:24,802 Speaker 1: But in communities used to war, you have to understand 54 00:03:24,802 --> 00:03:27,611 Speaker 1: that before that peace deal between the MILF and the 55 00:03:27,611 --> 00:03:31,531 Speaker 1: national government there was nearly 40 years of war between 56 00:03:31,531 --> 00:03:35,972 Speaker 1: these two factions. So especially in communities where there are 57 00:03:35,972 --> 00:03:41,772 Speaker 1: still armed combatants when there's a firefight going on and 58 00:03:41,772 --> 00:03:44,341 Speaker 1: one of the factions there involves. 59 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,470 Speaker 1: Your kin or your relatives, when you're fired at, you 60 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:52,589 Speaker 1: fire back if you bear arms, and bearing arms is 61 00:03:52,589 --> 00:03:57,580 Speaker 1: almost a norm in communities in the Bangsamoro because of 62 00:03:57,990 --> 00:04:01,869 Speaker 1: the decades of war that they've gone through. So what 63 00:04:01,869 --> 00:04:06,070 Speaker 1: happened was basically what they call Pentecasi as state forces 64 00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:10,229 Speaker 1: reinforced their troops, so did the community, especially the men 65 00:04:10,229 --> 00:04:12,270 Speaker 1: who were armed there. So it's another. 66 00:04:12,375 --> 00:04:19,005 Speaker 1: Deadly clash despite that 2014 permanent ceasefire agreement and when 67 00:04:19,005 --> 00:04:23,243 Speaker 1: I was there there was a deep sense of disappointment, betrayal, 68 00:04:23,325 --> 00:04:27,575 Speaker 1: confusion from everyone from the civilians to the military to 69 00:04:27,575 --> 00:04:31,684 Speaker 1: the MILF members and what I realized there is that 70 00:04:31,684 --> 00:04:35,243 Speaker 1: in the context of war you can dictate operations, but 71 00:04:35,244 --> 00:04:39,975 Speaker 1: you cannot dictate emotions. I saw the frustration. I saw. 72 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,739 Speaker 1: the sadness in the eyes of the troops in the 73 00:04:43,738 --> 00:04:46,899 Speaker 1: eyes of the community members, and this is the basic 74 00:04:46,899 --> 00:04:49,859 Speaker 1: premise from which the Mindanao Mindanao is a group of 75 00:04:49,859 --> 00:04:53,010 Speaker 1: islands in southern Philippines where BAM is located, where the 76 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:56,738 Speaker 1: Mindanao peace process story needs to be understood. The basic 77 00:04:56,738 --> 00:05:02,058 Speaker 1: premise of the ongoing peace process in southern Philippines is 78 00:05:02,059 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: that everyone we spoke to has strong emotions, but 79 00:05:07,684 --> 00:05:11,434 Speaker 1: Everyone is also mustering the courage for empathy and good 80 00:05:11,434 --> 00:05:15,065 Speaker 1: faith to sit down in the negotiating table and engage 81 00:05:15,065 --> 00:05:19,515 Speaker 1: in dialogue because they know that the end I peace 82 00:05:19,515 --> 00:05:23,784 Speaker 1: in the region is more important than what they're currently feeling. 83 00:05:24,075 --> 00:05:27,045 Speaker 1: So the great grand duty and project of peace building 84 00:05:27,045 --> 00:05:31,515 Speaker 1: in southern Philippines is possible because of the generosity with 85 00:05:31,515 --> 00:05:35,105 Speaker 1: which Filipinos choose to deal with each other. 86 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: And it's sexier to talk about the clash. It's sexier 87 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: to talk about war, but after that coverage, I saw 88 00:05:45,359 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: that this is a story about peace building ultimately. I 89 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: spoke with the chairman of the Peace implementing panel of 90 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,149 Speaker 1: the Mo Islamic Liberation Front, Mugeriqbal, and this is what 91 00:05:56,149 --> 00:05:56,950 Speaker 1: he had to say. 92 00:05:57,559 --> 00:06:02,149 Speaker 1: What is something that is not that good for everyone. 93 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: Everyone is a loser. After all, we belong to the 94 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: same country. Government forces die, I die, we lose. So 95 00:06:11,359 --> 00:06:14,558 Speaker 1: that's why the only option is really to have peace. 96 00:06:14,869 --> 00:06:17,500 Speaker 1: You know, my editors had the foresight and used their 97 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:19,859 Speaker 1: discretion to send me to the scene when I told 98 00:06:19,859 --> 00:06:22,980 Speaker 1: them a clash happened, and I'm glad we did go 99 00:06:22,980 --> 00:06:25,859 Speaker 1: because what we learned provided so much insight to the 100 00:06:25,859 --> 00:06:29,859 Speaker 1: peace process. So after that clash, a mechanism for dialogue 101 00:06:29,859 --> 00:06:35,209 Speaker 1: was triggered. Investigations would determine who the source of violence are, 102 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:39,140 Speaker 1: and the people in the peace panel, they're very cautious. 103 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:46,250 Speaker 1: To identify that the peace spoilers are specific people involved 104 00:06:46,250 --> 00:06:50,570 Speaker 1: in the attack and that it'll be dangerous to generalize 105 00:06:50,570 --> 00:06:55,928 Speaker 1: it as having emanated from the MILF as an institution 106 00:06:55,928 --> 00:07:00,769 Speaker 1: as a whole. So this kind of dialogue after hostile 107 00:07:00,769 --> 00:07:03,519 Speaker 1: encounters between the MILF and 108 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:07,659 Speaker 1: Government troops is exactly what has occurred over the years 109 00:07:07,660 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: since 2014. So you've traveled to the town where the 110 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,940 Speaker 1: January attack happened. Can you tell me about the journey there? 111 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, how hard was it to reach? 112 00:07:17,890 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: Did you even feel safe? As journalists, we're trained to 113 00:07:21,559 --> 00:07:25,559 Speaker 1: mitigate risks, so personally, I wouldn't say that there was 114 00:07:25,559 --> 00:07:27,829 Speaker 1: a threat to my personal sense of safety. 115 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:33,609 Speaker 1: I do have a personal routine before going out on 116 00:07:33,609 --> 00:07:37,250 Speaker 1: difficult environments, you know, it's easy to forget that armed 117 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:42,529 Speaker 1: conflict is still a reality in some communities because many 118 00:07:42,529 --> 00:07:48,209 Speaker 1: of us live in gated villages or condominiums where you 119 00:07:48,209 --> 00:07:50,130 Speaker 1: sleep in your air conditioned room at the end of 120 00:07:50,130 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: a long workday. 121 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:57,739 Speaker 1: And to some displacement is a constant reality. To some, 122 00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:02,989 Speaker 1: the sound of guns being fired wakes them up at 123 00:08:02,989 --> 00:08:06,739 Speaker 1: night and almost as an instinct moves them to pack 124 00:08:06,739 --> 00:08:10,350 Speaker 1: their belongings and go to safer ground. I spoke with 125 00:08:10,350 --> 00:08:13,459 Speaker 1: a village chief in that community named Ali Selauran Nourri, 126 00:08:14,109 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: and as a child, Ali was actually 127 00:08:18,059 --> 00:08:25,100 Speaker 1: Already experiencing armed conflict, he remembers carrying his younger brother 128 00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: on his back, fleeing from gunfights, and yet he said 129 00:08:31,019 --> 00:08:35,969 Speaker 1: the January clash brought back memories of that as a child. 130 00:08:37,719 --> 00:08:42,510 Speaker 1: Bullets can be indiscriminate. I ran for cover. Civilians fled. 131 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: I told another village council member to pull up the 132 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: civilians so that they are not fired at. I hope 133 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,349 Speaker 1: they never experienced this again. In 2014, the Philippine government 134 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: and the country's largest Muslim rebel group MILF, they did 135 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,940 Speaker 1: put pen to paper, they signed a landmark peace deal. 136 00:09:01,489 --> 00:09:05,710 Speaker 1: But Buena, it's been a slow march towards self-governance. Finally, 137 00:09:05,909 --> 00:09:09,270 Speaker 1: the Bangsamoro Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao, they're gearing up 138 00:09:09,270 --> 00:09:13,349 Speaker 1: for its first parliamentary elections in October. How likely are 139 00:09:13,349 --> 00:09:15,780 Speaker 1: they to go ahead and what stands in their way? 140 00:09:16,119 --> 00:09:20,489 Speaker 1: You have to understand that these former rebels are transitioning 141 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:26,500 Speaker 1: to becoming civilians, laying down their arms, and these rebel 142 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:31,459 Speaker 1: leaders are also transitioning to becoming social leaders, community leaders, 143 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:33,219 Speaker 1: and even political leaders. 144 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:37,140 Speaker 1: So part of what they're asking from the national government 145 00:09:37,140 --> 00:09:41,229 Speaker 1: is to speed up their amnesty applications prior to the 146 00:09:41,229 --> 00:09:47,750 Speaker 1: first parliamentary elections. The former rebel leaders understandably because they 147 00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:52,270 Speaker 1: were involved in war, have pending criminal cases and they 148 00:09:52,270 --> 00:09:57,468 Speaker 1: applied for amnesty, and the spokesperson of the Bangsamar Autonomous 149 00:09:57,469 --> 00:10:01,299 Speaker 1: Region of Muslim Mino named Mad Assnin Pendatto has said 150 00:10:01,299 --> 00:10:02,229 Speaker 1: that it is their. 151 00:10:02,359 --> 00:10:06,468 Speaker 1: That all these amnesty applications would not be rejected prior 152 00:10:06,469 --> 00:10:09,869 Speaker 1: to the elections because that is exactly the point of 153 00:10:09,869 --> 00:10:13,069 Speaker 1: the peace deal. The point of the peace deal was 154 00:10:13,070 --> 00:10:19,140 Speaker 1: for armed struggle to transition to political struggle, and that's 155 00:10:19,140 --> 00:10:24,070 Speaker 1: also exactly why the MILF created a political party called 156 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:28,630 Speaker 1: the United Bangsamoro Justice Party, and it is worthy to 157 00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:31,189 Speaker 1: note that in all of the Philippines. 158 00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:35,949 Speaker 1: UB JP is the only ruling party whose battle cry 159 00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:40,718 Speaker 1: is justice. There's a lot of problems when you transition 160 00:10:40,719 --> 00:10:46,510 Speaker 1: from war to politics, and part of that is learning 161 00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:47,390 Speaker 1: how to govern. 162 00:10:47,969 --> 00:10:50,820 Speaker 1: And there's also a lot of talk. In fact, there 163 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:54,669 Speaker 1: is an ongoing hearing in the House of Representatives that 164 00:10:54,669 --> 00:10:58,710 Speaker 1: looks into fund misuse in the Bangsamoto region. So there's 165 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:03,030 Speaker 1: also allegations of corruption and access in terms of the 166 00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:06,750 Speaker 1: discretion that was given to that region. That region was 167 00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:10,390 Speaker 1: provided a block grant, meaning to say there's an automatic 168 00:11:10,390 --> 00:11:13,630 Speaker 1: allocation for that region in comparison to other regions that 169 00:11:13,630 --> 00:11:16,270 Speaker 1: have to lobby for the allocation. 170 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,460 Speaker 1: In the national budget, they have an automatic one at 171 00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:24,179 Speaker 1: least in the first few years after the creation of 172 00:11:24,179 --> 00:11:29,619 Speaker 1: BARM or the Bangsamoro region. So governance means prudent use 173 00:11:29,619 --> 00:11:33,619 Speaker 1: of funds, but also governance means expedited use of funds. 174 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:36,468 Speaker 1: What I mean by that is if you're allocated a fund, 175 00:11:36,669 --> 00:11:40,020 Speaker 1: better make sure that you use it and when the 176 00:11:40,020 --> 00:11:41,210 Speaker 1: audit comes. 177 00:11:41,859 --> 00:11:45,940 Speaker 1: The common criticism to some of the ministries in the 178 00:11:45,940 --> 00:11:49,900 Speaker 1: Bunsamo region is that some of the funds are unused. 179 00:11:50,419 --> 00:11:54,179 Speaker 1: You also spoke to the MILF's longtime peace negotiator who 180 00:11:54,179 --> 00:11:54,809 Speaker 1: told you 181 00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, for the rebels, the transition from militancy to dialogue, 182 00:11:59,090 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: from combat to governance and and an election and voting, 183 00:12:02,330 --> 00:12:06,250 Speaker 1: it's really difficult. That's right, because when they were in 184 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:11,369 Speaker 1: armed struggle, they weren't exactly allowing a lot of their 185 00:12:11,369 --> 00:12:16,049 Speaker 1: members to run for public office. They had endorsed some 186 00:12:16,049 --> 00:12:16,450 Speaker 1: candidates in. 187 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:21,210 Speaker 1: The past, but unlike now, where they have a political party, 188 00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:25,580 Speaker 1: where the MILF's leaders are among the leaders in that 189 00:12:25,580 --> 00:12:28,979 Speaker 1: interim government, because part of a deal is to create 190 00:12:28,979 --> 00:12:33,539 Speaker 1: a transition government prior to the parliamentary elections, a lot 191 00:12:33,539 --> 00:12:38,809 Speaker 1: of the leaders now are actually MILF leaders. So Mr. 192 00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:43,700 Speaker 1: Iqbal even told me about his time as Muhajhideen. 193 00:12:44,169 --> 00:12:47,650 Speaker 1: As a revolutionary, where he said, you know, our houses 194 00:12:47,650 --> 00:12:51,718 Speaker 1: were on our backs, and they did really feel the injustice, 195 00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: especially after the 1968 Jabida massacre where moral army recruits 196 00:12:59,690 --> 00:13:03,690 Speaker 1: were planned to be sent to Saba to recapture Saba. 197 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: Saba, of course, a locality that's disputed between Malaysia and 198 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,799 Speaker 1: the Philippines, and he remembers being among the first to 199 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:17,130 Speaker 1: be trained in Malaysia following that massacre. 200 00:13:17,739 --> 00:13:22,580 Speaker 1: Trained for combat to undergo combat training. So this secessionist 201 00:13:22,580 --> 00:13:26,059 Speaker 1: movement started as a political movement called the Muslim Independence 202 00:13:26,059 --> 00:13:29,219 Speaker 1: Movement that wanted for southern Philippines to be independent from 203 00:13:29,219 --> 00:13:33,218 Speaker 1: the Philippines. And later there were breakaway groups. Prior to 204 00:13:33,219 --> 00:13:38,090 Speaker 1: the MILF, there was the Moro National Liberation Front MNLF, 205 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,210 Speaker 1: which the government also had a peace deal with. 206 00:13:41,739 --> 00:13:46,090 Speaker 1: So there are criticisms in fact that we started with 207 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:50,030 Speaker 1: AMAM being the autonomous region that was created following the 208 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:54,900 Speaker 1: peace deal with MNLF, the umbrella organization prior to MILF, 209 00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:58,169 Speaker 1: and now you have BAM, the autonomous region that was 210 00:13:58,169 --> 00:14:01,609 Speaker 1: created following the peace deal with the MILF, and there 211 00:14:01,609 --> 00:14:04,689 Speaker 1: are critics who say we might as well go through 212 00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:07,770 Speaker 1: the letters of the alphabet arm barm, karm. 213 00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:12,099 Speaker 1: Get to ZAM, but at some point that there has 214 00:14:12,099 --> 00:14:16,299 Speaker 1: to be some appeasement of the political discontent that if 215 00:14:16,299 --> 00:14:19,849 Speaker 1: you're going to use poverty and injustice as the reason 216 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:24,289 Speaker 1: for the armed struggle, that when you're already in power 217 00:14:24,539 --> 00:14:29,059 Speaker 1: that you should do your level best, as Mr. Iqbal 218 00:14:29,059 --> 00:14:34,179 Speaker 1: calls it, to ensure that these roots of the insurgency, poverty, 219 00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:35,609 Speaker 1: lack of jobs. 220 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:41,359 Speaker 1: Injustice are dealt with. And right now there are some 221 00:14:41,359 --> 00:14:47,679 Speaker 1: quarters who are pushing for an inclusive barm. among them. 222 00:14:48,119 --> 00:14:52,270 Speaker 1: are what we call the non-moral indigenous peoples because while 223 00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:54,789 Speaker 1: the Moors are the Muslim natives in the Philippine south, 224 00:14:54,869 --> 00:15:00,090 Speaker 1: there are also non-Muslim natives who are the minority of minorities, 225 00:15:00,469 --> 00:15:05,469 Speaker 1: Muslims being the minority in Catholic majority Philippines, but non-Muslims 226 00:15:05,469 --> 00:15:09,869 Speaker 1: in southern Philippines are the minority of minorities in that region. 227 00:15:10,780 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of tension there and the non-Muslim 228 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,510 Speaker 1: natives in the region hope that they are not left 229 00:15:17,510 --> 00:15:24,020 Speaker 1: behind even as the Bangsamoro obtains its long fought progress. True, 230 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:29,159 Speaker 1: the region's poverty rate fell from a high of 52.6% 231 00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: in 2018 to 23.5% in 2023 now, which means that 232 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: there really is tangible progress since that 2019 plebiscite that 233 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: created the region. 234 00:15:40,729 --> 00:15:43,979 Speaker 1: And although it is ravaged by decades of war, it's 235 00:15:43,979 --> 00:15:48,179 Speaker 1: no longer the poorest region in the Philippines. But there 236 00:15:48,179 --> 00:15:53,340 Speaker 1: have been issues with non-moral IPs having pending applications in 237 00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:57,580 Speaker 1: the national government in terms of their land claims, and 238 00:15:57,580 --> 00:15:59,460 Speaker 1: now because there's an autonomous. 239 00:15:59,565 --> 00:16:03,554 Speaker 1: Region, some of the leaders initially wanted them to restart 240 00:16:03,554 --> 00:16:08,315 Speaker 1: those applications and now before the regional government. Clann politics, 241 00:16:08,395 --> 00:16:11,275 Speaker 1: let's talk about that. They're a defining feature of the 242 00:16:11,275 --> 00:16:15,835 Speaker 1: Bangsamoro region infighting between MILF factions is threatening to upend 243 00:16:15,835 --> 00:16:19,275 Speaker 1: the political progress that's been made so far. Can you 244 00:16:19,275 --> 00:16:21,684 Speaker 1: tell me why these groups don't see eye to eye? 245 00:16:21,755 --> 00:16:24,434 Speaker 1: What's the conflict here? There's a lot of sources of 246 00:16:24,434 --> 00:16:26,755 Speaker 1: violence in the Bangsamo region. 247 00:16:27,109 --> 00:16:31,070 Speaker 1: And there's what is called by the security sector as 248 00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:36,929 Speaker 1: horizontal conflicts. So these are conflicts over land, over revenge 249 00:16:36,929 --> 00:16:40,729 Speaker 1: killings as well. For example, the clan feud that we 250 00:16:40,729 --> 00:16:44,489 Speaker 1: went to and covered involved a series of revenge killings 251 00:16:44,489 --> 00:16:48,770 Speaker 1: linked to a botched arranged marriage years ago, and I 252 00:16:48,770 --> 00:16:51,359 Speaker 1: won't go into the details because it's almost funny to 253 00:16:51,359 --> 00:16:55,010 Speaker 1: hear it from the MILF commander who mediated in this 254 00:16:55,010 --> 00:16:55,849 Speaker 1: clan feud. 255 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: Always say despite the level of violence that he's trying 256 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,429 Speaker 1: to tell me, to always say the caveat at the end, 257 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: that's just a small misunderstanding. So he would tell me 258 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,469 Speaker 1: about massacres of 9 people, about an attempt against his life, 259 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: his driver being gunned down in broad daylight, about two 260 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,079 Speaker 1: factions of the MILF fighting in a series of gunfights 261 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: every night that led to a 7 hour firefight by 262 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,910 Speaker 1: February 3 and displaced 50 families. 263 00:17:25,329 --> 00:17:28,239 Speaker 1: And then suddenly he goes with a caveat. It's just 264 00:17:28,239 --> 00:17:32,790 Speaker 1: a small misunderstanding. Violence has been so normalized in many 265 00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:37,540 Speaker 1: communities that they have to be empowered to unlearn violence, 266 00:17:37,670 --> 00:17:41,060 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what some of the development agencies are doing. 267 00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:44,819 Speaker 1: Experts are saying this preference for gun ownership was shaped 268 00:17:44,819 --> 00:17:47,989 Speaker 1: by decades of war, but was also shaped by the 269 00:17:47,989 --> 00:17:52,030 Speaker 1: thinking that your personal sense of safety and security cannot 270 00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:53,949 Speaker 1: be outsourced to law enforcement. 271 00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:58,750 Speaker 1: That has been the distrust that they have against state 272 00:17:58,750 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: security forces because in the past, these injustices and massacres 273 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 1: against their people were committed by state security forces. On 274 00:18:07,959 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: the point of guns in your report, you talk about 275 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: how peace obviously requires the MILF to lay down their arms. 276 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,839 Speaker 1: It makes sense, right? But it is so much easier 277 00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:19,599 Speaker 1: said than done. 278 00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:24,290 Speaker 1: That's right. As part of the peace deal, the members 279 00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:27,609 Speaker 1: or the armed combatants of the MILF would need to 280 00:18:27,609 --> 00:18:31,449 Speaker 1: lay down their arms in a process called decommissioning. When 281 00:18:31,449 --> 00:18:36,410 Speaker 1: they decommission, they will get cash, some 100,000 Philippine pesos, 282 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:41,170 Speaker 1: and a socioeconomic package, but Philippine law permits the private 283 00:18:41,170 --> 00:18:42,449 Speaker 1: ownership of guns. 284 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:48,180 Speaker 1: And so, because there is a preference to not outsource 285 00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:51,979 Speaker 1: your personal sense of safety to security forces and instead 286 00:18:51,979 --> 00:18:56,020 Speaker 1: make sure that your family is safe through whoever is 287 00:18:56,020 --> 00:19:00,579 Speaker 1: the patriarch in the family, then it becomes really hard 288 00:19:00,579 --> 00:19:05,459 Speaker 1: for certain families to abandon gun ownership, and it's not 289 00:19:05,459 --> 00:19:09,649 Speaker 1: like gun ownership per se is the problem. It's really 290 00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:10,649 Speaker 1: that 291 00:19:11,030 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: There has been a social problem of resorting to violence 292 00:19:16,829 --> 00:19:19,109 Speaker 1: as in the case of that clan feud that we 293 00:19:19,109 --> 00:19:25,579 Speaker 1: covered when things go wrong or when your sense of 294 00:19:25,579 --> 00:19:29,550 Speaker 1: stability and safety is threatened. The MILF commander that I 295 00:19:29,550 --> 00:19:33,709 Speaker 1: spoke to JP Filmin Imran, as well as the village 296 00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:37,619 Speaker 1: chief in Basila that I spoke to, Alisaaluran Nouril, both 297 00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:40,010 Speaker 1: of them say they are. 298 00:19:40,459 --> 00:19:42,050 Speaker 1: Encouraging the community. 299 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,459 Speaker 1: To not resort to violence. So it's not like this 300 00:19:46,459 --> 00:19:51,459 Speaker 1: is so pervasive that everybody resorts to violence. It's not 301 00:19:51,459 --> 00:19:52,300 Speaker 1: like that. Again. 302 00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:57,438 Speaker 1: Peace spoilers is how security advocates and peace advocates call 303 00:19:57,439 --> 00:20:02,489 Speaker 1: these minute sources of violence. But according to Climate Conflict 304 00:20:02,489 --> 00:20:07,129 Speaker 1: Action Asia, the sources of violence in the Bangsamoru region 305 00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:10,810 Speaker 1: has actually shifted from clashes between government troops. 306 00:20:10,954 --> 00:20:15,704 Speaker 1: And the MILF into MILF in fighting. In fact, they 307 00:20:15,704 --> 00:20:18,864 Speaker 1: have monitored that 13 of the 28 active clan feuds 308 00:20:18,864 --> 00:20:23,864 Speaker 1: as of February 2025 involved the MILF. Climate Conflict Action 309 00:20:23,864 --> 00:20:28,814 Speaker 1: Asia's executive director Francisco Pancholara Jr. told me as much. 310 00:20:29,324 --> 00:20:34,785 Speaker 2: He even cited evidence about interviews with of those who 311 00:20:34,785 --> 00:20:37,214 Speaker 2: had been decommissioned. 312 00:20:37,729 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: And reported that they used the money they received to 313 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 2: buy new weapons, so it's clear that the weapons are 314 00:20:45,959 --> 00:20:53,349 Speaker 2: flowing inside thevanamoro with wanton disregard for any decommissioning project. 315 00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:58,489 Speaker 1: Before we go, Buena, the first parliamentary elections of the 316 00:20:58,489 --> 00:21:01,579 Speaker 1: Bangsamoro region, it's set to take place in just 7 317 00:21:01,579 --> 00:21:04,290 Speaker 1: months from now, but a lot can happen between now 318 00:21:04,290 --> 00:21:07,849 Speaker 1: and then. After you spoke to locals and advocates and 319 00:21:07,849 --> 00:21:11,329 Speaker 1: everyone kind of involved in this region, do you think 320 00:21:11,329 --> 00:21:14,630 Speaker 1: peace is fraying at the edges, or is the region 321 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: really ready to start a new chapter? 322 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,270 Speaker 1: What you have to understand in this coverage of the 323 00:21:22,270 --> 00:21:27,270 Speaker 1: January clash between government troops and some members of the MILF, 324 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,389 Speaker 1: as well as the February clan feud between two MILF 325 00:21:31,390 --> 00:21:36,349 Speaker 1: commanders that we covered, is that ultimately when violence erupts 326 00:21:36,349 --> 00:21:40,300 Speaker 1: it is the civilians who bear the brunt of that fighting. 327 00:21:40,510 --> 00:21:46,188 Speaker 1: But again, what prevails here is the Filipino spirit of Pentecasi. 328 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,550 Speaker 1: No longer being used to reinforce troops or to reinforce 329 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: armed community members for engaging in firefight, but Pintacai in 330 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: terms of peace building. The Philippines is vying for a 331 00:22:03,199 --> 00:22:08,250 Speaker 1: non-permanent seat in the United Nations Security Council by 2027, 332 00:22:08,479 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: and part of that campaign is to underscore the Philippines' 333 00:22:12,959 --> 00:22:15,790 Speaker 1: role as a pathfinder because 334 00:22:16,739 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: Finding paths to peace is exactly what the country is 335 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,060 Speaker 1: doing in southern Philippines. Buena, thank you so much for 336 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:28,660 Speaker 1: your insights on an incredibly volatile region that could be 337 00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:32,020 Speaker 1: on the cusp of a new beginning. Appreciate this. Always 338 00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:35,599 Speaker 1: grateful for the privilege of bearing witness. Catch up on 339 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,219 Speaker 1: all of Buena's reports from the Philippines on YouTube and 340 00:22:38,219 --> 00:22:39,979 Speaker 1: also on CNA.asia. 341 00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 1: There are also TV episodes of CNA Correspondent every Wednesday. 342 00:22:44,329 --> 00:22:48,099 Speaker 1: They're at 9:30 p.m. Singapore, Hong Kong time. I'm Teresa Tang. 343 00:22:48,170 --> 00:22:51,209 Speaker 1: The team behind this week's episode is Sai Yain, Clara Ong, 344 00:22:51,449 --> 00:22:54,689 Speaker 1: Christina Robert, and Craig Dale. A new episode comes out 345 00:22:54,689 --> 00:22:57,130 Speaker 1: next Wednesday. Join us then. Bye for now.