Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sonia. Welcome to another episode of Men explain.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your love and support so far. Now,
Speaker 1: today we are talking about honesty and how much should
Speaker 1: you tell your partner about your past. So that's a
Speaker 1: loaded question. And here to answer it openly and honestly
Speaker 1: is john tell us about yourself, john yes.
Speaker 2: Hi. Hi guys. My name is john is Sonya introduced.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be really honestly, and I'm gonna plug
Speaker 2: all my social so that you'll give us engagement. Okay.
Speaker 2: So I work at a small local. I'm a creative,
Speaker 2: I do photos, I do videos, but in my downtime,
Speaker 2: I actually do a podcast as well. Right on over
Speaker 2: think S. G. We always think actually everywhere, please can't
Speaker 2: follow us.
Speaker 1: Why is it over think do you overthink a lot
Speaker 1: or why?
Speaker 2: When we started the channel, the channels name was my
Speaker 2: co host name, Alastair Punk. Right. And then after a
Speaker 2: while audience was like,
Speaker 1: what? Lester Park?
Speaker 2: Where's john? Right. And then we were like, okay, we
Speaker 2: didn't think so far. So what we did was there like,
Speaker 2: you know, we try to find a common thing that
Speaker 2: we do, right? We eat a lot. We, we spend
Speaker 2: a lot money. Not really. So when we realized we
Speaker 2: overthink quite a fair bit and as a result we
Speaker 2: called it over think and we never looked back since,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a very relatable name because
Speaker 1: naturally all of us overthink, right? And if you from
Speaker 1: tuned into this podcast long enough, you would actually know
Speaker 1: that sometimes we were called for like 1 1.5 hours
Speaker 1: but we have to cut it down because
Speaker 1: obviously we're over sharing as well
Speaker 2: as True. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah. But you know, I'm so glad that you're joining
Speaker 1: us today because this is a topic that um
Speaker 1: may not be the easiest to tackle when it comes
Speaker 1: to honesty, when it comes to openness, When it comes
Speaker 1: to telling your partner about your past, your past relationships.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be a bit of a daunting thing, right?
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that
Speaker 2: definitely is I think daunting is the right word for
Speaker 2: it because you're as humans, we're always worried about judgment
Speaker 2: and especially judgment from someone that is
Speaker 2: that we are especially vulnerable with, right? So I can
Speaker 2: understand why certain things you told the line between secrecy
Speaker 2: and being open with your partner because you're worried about
Speaker 2: that judgment that comes from someone that you ideally want
Speaker 2: to share a huge part of your life with. So
Speaker 2: that's where it gets really tough. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: I think that like
Speaker 2: um there are ways to their ways to navigate that,
Speaker 1: right? Yeah. And that's that's why, you know, your relationship works.
Speaker 1: I mean if you are in a relationship, I am okay.
Speaker 2: Hopefully all my all my theories can apply into action.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's so funny because sometimes we when
Speaker 1: we share with our friends, right? It's almost like everyone
Speaker 1: is very knowledgeable in the current moment when we share
Speaker 1: problems all of sudden we got advice and all that.
Speaker 1: But
Speaker 1: can we even apply what we advise our friends to ourselves?
Speaker 1: And that's the biggest question to.
Speaker 2: It's true. It's very easy to be objective when you
Speaker 2: take a step back, right? But if you're in the
Speaker 2: first person I
Speaker 1: like suddenly you're clouded with, I don't know, anger and
Speaker 1: all the feelings and emotions. So here's a question for you.
Speaker 1: Like when you just start dating someone, um do you
Speaker 1: have a rule like after how many days then I
Speaker 1: start sharing about my excess or do you guys bring
Speaker 1: the excess up immediately? Or how does that work for you?
Speaker 2: There's no, there's no strict formula that I can give
Speaker 2: you an answer for. But if you ask me based
Speaker 2: on my comfort level and based on my relationship, right?
Speaker 2: I think for me my policy is very simple in
Speaker 2: terms of bringing up history and bringing up the number
Speaker 2: of access and bringing up how your past relationships were. Like, right, ideally,
Speaker 2: mine is not determined by how many days it's more
Speaker 2: of like before we get together,
Speaker 1: right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, before you make it official.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Because I think the stakes are way higher.
Speaker 2: If you discuss and find out all these things that
Speaker 2: could potentially be deal breakers after the fact that you've
Speaker 2: gotten together as compared to before you get together, you
Speaker 2: all discuss this and then say that like, hey, we're
Speaker 2: going to be proceeding into the next step of things
Speaker 2: because good feelings, good feelings, right? Here's what we have
Speaker 2: and here's what you have.
Speaker 2: Let's see whether any of this is non negotiable.
Speaker 1: Wait. So so those are very heavy words non negotiable
Speaker 1: and dealbreakers. Can you give me an example of what
Speaker 1: a deal breaker is right for you?
Speaker 2: Okay. So personally, for me, right, I would like, I'm
Speaker 2: quite open, so I don't really have,
Speaker 2: I don't really have dealbreakers per se, right? If I
Speaker 2: had to pinpoint at one, that would that would cause
Speaker 2: me to win a little if it were brought up, right,
Speaker 2: would be to say that like, oh my part, my
Speaker 2: potential partner cheated before.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay.
Speaker 2: And that would be something that would be a little
Speaker 2: bit harder to digest for me.
Speaker 1: Has that ever happened to you before?
Speaker 2: Thankfully, No, I've been very, very, very lucky in the
Speaker 2: dating game, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so I just want to hold on that
Speaker 1: thought for a minute because I do have, you know,
Speaker 1: some close friends we always share about relationships and stuff
Speaker 1: and I do have a close friend who um
Speaker 1: she actually was in a long term relationship, unfortunately she
Speaker 1: did cheat on her partner,
Speaker 2: right?
Speaker 1: But as a result she found herself in a situation
Speaker 1: with a guy that she's happier than ever before,
Speaker 2: right?
Speaker 1: And it doesn't change my perception of her as a person.
Speaker 1: And she did her current partner knows everything about what
Speaker 1: happened with the X. And
Speaker 2: stuff.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't change his perception of her as well.
Speaker 1: So do you feel like it could be a very
Speaker 1: subjective thing? Like there are some people out there who
Speaker 1: don't mind, you know, such so called red flags as
Speaker 1: some of us might deem to others. It might be like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't change my perception of you at
Speaker 2: all.
Speaker 2: So I mean before, before I answer that question, I
Speaker 2: just want to ask, have you experienced
Speaker 2: being cheated on before?
Speaker 1: Yes, I have. Right. Yes.
Speaker 2: My condolences. But like, like, like once, twice or multiple
Speaker 2: times or
Speaker 1: um actually it was it was more than once. More
Speaker 1: than once. More than once. But I'm the kind of
Speaker 1: person where I would like to talk about it. So
Speaker 1: you know, we make mistakes. I've made my fair share
Speaker 1: of mistakes, you know? And I've dated people who have
Speaker 1: made their mistakes as well in relationships. And
Speaker 1: um for me, I want to find out why what
Speaker 1: happened there, what led to this moment? And is it
Speaker 1: something that both of us were guilty of both of
Speaker 1: us did something that led to this moment? Like I
Speaker 1: want to find out the root cause as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I mean in the context of reflex they were
Speaker 2: talking about, the reason why I asked this question is
Speaker 2: to understand a little bit in terms of your comfort
Speaker 2: level when it comes to discussing these kind of things.
Speaker 2: So I think we whenever you get into a relationship
Speaker 2: with someone, when you're about to discuss your reflex, right?
Speaker 2: One of the things to immediately ground yourself with is
Speaker 2: to understand that this person is not just potential partner,
Speaker 2: but also an individual as well. And as an individual,
Speaker 2: the person who have different levels of comfort, different
Speaker 2: concepts of what a red flag might be like and
Speaker 2: not everything is everything is just
Speaker 2: that relationship that you share. And like to asking about
Speaker 2: whether they are okay with discussing their past experiences with
Speaker 2: eating and stuff like that. You will have a very, very,
Speaker 2: very clear idea in that sense about whether it's even
Speaker 2: a red flag or whether even discussing it is comfortable
Speaker 2: for them and I think that's the first step and
Speaker 2: as much as this is going to be the most
Speaker 2: hippie ship that you hear me say in this episode,
Speaker 2: but like
Speaker 2: um dating is really all about communication, but what does
Speaker 2: that mean? Right people here, that's a quote that has
Speaker 2: always time. But what does that really mean for me?
Speaker 2: Like it means communicating in a way that is easy
Speaker 2: for the other person to understand because you can communicate
Speaker 2: and talk all you want.
Speaker 2: But if the other person does not digest it the
Speaker 2: right way, right, then the communication is for not right?
Speaker 2: You're just
Speaker 2: we're just preaching, right? So in order to find out
Speaker 2: whether something is a red flag, you need to understand
Speaker 2: this individual a bit better. And sometimes you have to
Speaker 2: ask the very daunting question about whether it's cheating a
Speaker 2: red flag,
Speaker 1: right? It almost sounds
Speaker 2: instinctively everyone on the internet, but of course it's a
Speaker 2: red flag, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like you mentioned,
Speaker 2: we've all made our fair share of mistakes just in
Speaker 2: varying sizes, and it is my opinion that everyone deserves
Speaker 2: to be forgiven. So if let's say someone who has
Speaker 2: cheated cheated on someone before
Speaker 2: comes around and wants to be a better person who's
Speaker 2: to say they don't deserve a second
Speaker 1: chance, of course, because you need to find out the context.
Speaker 1: The reason, I mean, not that we're justifying it,
Speaker 2: but we're not, every
Speaker 1: situation is different and you know, they've got their own
Speaker 1: story behind it. So we're not one to judge as well,
Speaker 1: which I completely agree, but, you know, based on what
Speaker 1: you're saying, you're pretty much
Speaker 1: an open book,
Speaker 2: I am okay with discussing anything. And I think that
Speaker 2: we need to have adopted the attitude a little bit
Speaker 2: more because everything is worth discussing and forming an opinion
Speaker 2: about
Speaker 2: you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are
Speaker 2: also you ought to also give someone else the chance
Speaker 2: to change your mind,
Speaker 1: you would say that sharing details and like being an
Speaker 1: open book builds intimacy in a
Speaker 2: relationship. Do
Speaker 1: you think that plays a part?
Speaker 2: It definitely does because I think, I think interpret see
Speaker 2: might not be the right word. I think the word
Speaker 2: that we have to that we're looking for his trust.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Because if you're able to be open with your partner
Speaker 2: about most things, it gives your partner the opportunity to
Speaker 2: be open about at least those things as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean,
Speaker 1: look, I feel like sometimes, you know, in my lunch
Speaker 1: sessions with my girls and stuff, when we talk about
Speaker 1: our relationship problems and all
Speaker 1: the one thing that I wanted to just ask you,
Speaker 1: you know, there's the term that we use like secrecy
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. You keep secrets between, you know,
Speaker 1: couples and all. But what's the difference between keeping secrets
Speaker 1: and downplaying situations right? To avoid conflict or a fight?
Speaker 1: Do you think that there's a big difference between the
Speaker 1: two or the lines are blurred?
Speaker 2: This is this is where I have to say the
Speaker 2: lines are definitely a bit because like it is a
Speaker 2: mixture of wanting to be open with your partner, but
Speaker 2: also wanting to be kind to your
Speaker 1: partner, right?
Speaker 2: Because like there are some things, you know, for a
Speaker 2: fact that if you overshare in the wrong context
Speaker 1: is going to trigger it
Speaker 2: is right and you might hurt them, right? And you
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. So that's where people have
Speaker 2: that struggle, personally, I've encountered that myself.
Speaker 1: Have you right where you tell us more?
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean through omission, right? Omission, you try
Speaker 2: to salvage the situation like I've had have had an
Speaker 2: incident with one of my partners before where basically for
Speaker 2: their birthday or something like that, right? I was like,
Speaker 2: let me get them a nice present.
Speaker 2: But at the same time while I was searching on
Speaker 2: the story and I thought this is a really thoughtful
Speaker 2: gift for some of my other friends. So I bought
Speaker 2: one for my partner and a bunch of other things
Speaker 2: for my other friends as well. Now
Speaker 2: I omitted the part with my with my partner that
Speaker 2: I also bought things from my friends because I don't
Speaker 2: want that to diminish the thought that I put into
Speaker 2: her gift. I
Speaker 1: understand. Okay.
Speaker 2: Right. And that's just a very, I guess a very
Speaker 2: low level example, but that's where that's where I'm kind
Speaker 2: of toeing the line between
Speaker 2: secrecy and omitting, you know, downplaying things.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Okay, well, I have something to add on
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 1: I think my situation that I encountered was a little
Speaker 1: bit more intense, like it resulted in a bit more
Speaker 1: conflicts than I had hoped for.
Speaker 1: So it's no secret to our audience that I do
Speaker 1: like to go out and party and I have been
Speaker 1: through that like, you know, in my younger days and
Speaker 1: sometimes like once in a while we still kind of
Speaker 1: do that, right? Even though it ends at 10, 13
Speaker 1: hours and you know, sometimes I find myself
Speaker 1: historically as well, not just, you know, in present day,
Speaker 1: but historically I tend to try and downplay like how
Speaker 1: much fun I'm having
Speaker 2: to your partner.
Speaker 1: Yes, it
Speaker 2: is.
Speaker 1: Okay. So my reason and this is this is confirm
Speaker 1: overshare right now at this point time, but
Speaker 2: overshare. Overthink
Speaker 1: overthink, oh my God, collaboration. So okay, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if you're tuning in right now, if you feel me,
Speaker 1: but sometimes when you're having a lot of fun, like
Speaker 1: with your friends or like when your partner is not
Speaker 1: there and stuff, you kind of don't want your partner
Speaker 1: to feel like bad about it or left out or
Speaker 1: you don't want your partner to feel like, oh, she's
Speaker 1: out there messing around or doing something bad, right? So
Speaker 1: as a result, I tend to just be like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a chill night, but they were like, it
Speaker 1: was always chill, like, you know, we're just having dinner
Speaker 1: and drinks and like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's what I'm guilty of, I'm like,
Speaker 1: openly admitting it right now,
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, you know, it's great that you're
Speaker 2: wearing this now, but like, okay, I'm just curious, right,
Speaker 2: is this is this approach that you have right coming
Speaker 2: from your own worry about how your partner will react.
Speaker 1: Exactly. So I'm, because I'm worried about a reaction, that's
Speaker 1: why I downplay it, right? And you know, we've addressed
Speaker 1: this in therapy a couple a couple of times as
Speaker 1: well and it's like just a vicious cycle, right? Because
Speaker 1: we're constantly like, okay, why are you dumping it or
Speaker 1: because you know, every time historically when you say like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm having so much fun and you know,
Speaker 1: such a fun night, then my partner might get mad
Speaker 1: or angry then becomes like a vicious cycle. Then I
Speaker 1: decided that, you know what, next time I'll just like
Speaker 1: won't say that I'm having so much fun, you know,
Speaker 1: But I mean, truth be told, at least it was
Speaker 1: talked about and you know, it was addressed as well.
Speaker 1: And as a result, I think both of us have
Speaker 1: things to reflect on and look at,
Speaker 1: why is he giving me that certain reaction and why
Speaker 1: do I feel the need to continue doing that? You know?
Speaker 1: So we have to break that cycle somehow,
Speaker 2: definitely because I think that it is, it is a
Speaker 2: very toxic parenting kind of
Speaker 1: concerned if
Speaker 2: that is the situation and you always want to move
Speaker 2: away from that because especially if you're talking about romantic partner, right?
Speaker 2: Potentially this romantic partner is going to transform into the
Speaker 2: next status of lifetime. And this is not something that
Speaker 2: you can live with for
Speaker 2: you can live with it for maybe 5, 10 years.
Speaker 2: What about 2030 years. Right. And that's where that's where
Speaker 2: it gets really difficult. And I think in order to
Speaker 2: overcome that you need to, you need to find out
Speaker 2: the motivations for different behaviors. Like, like it could be,
Speaker 2: it could be on our part, right? It could be
Speaker 2: like for example, we've, we've always had experiences with partners
Speaker 2: that get mad when we have too much fun, right?
Speaker 2: Or it could be on their part, right?
Speaker 2: Every time we go out and have fun, they seem
Speaker 2: to react poorly. So this has to be something that
Speaker 2: has to be discussed. Like whether it's a reassurance thing,
Speaker 2: whether it's a jealousy thing or whether it's, they just
Speaker 2: have no one else and it's a co dependence thing, right?
Speaker 2: And these things will eventually boil down to individual facts
Speaker 2: that you have to discuss whether they are deal breakers
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 1: And have you found yourself in a situation or relationship
Speaker 1: when you were dating someone that
Speaker 1: you started to compromise a lot on yourself and you
Speaker 1: realized that hey, I'm changing so much, but I'm changing
Speaker 1: for somebody not myself
Speaker 2: definitely. And I think this was something that was very
Speaker 2: symptomatic of my
Speaker 2: earlier
Speaker 1: when
Speaker 2: I was younger because I think right now just to
Speaker 2: accept the context, what would you say that you are romantic,
Speaker 2: hopeless romantic or bleeding heart?
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm a hopeless romantic, right?
Speaker 1: There are obviously ideals that each and every one of
Speaker 1: us has of what the perfect relationship is and that
Speaker 1: to me has changed drastically over the years. No more slow.
Speaker 1: More obviously. Yeah. Yeah. I think the half lit to
Speaker 1: me never really quite existed. Neither have I ever experienced it.
Speaker 1: But I've been lucky with a fair share of previous
Speaker 1: guys that I've dated who have romantic gestures. I've also
Speaker 1: had
Speaker 1: experience with guys who are not romantic at all. But
Speaker 1: in their mind, they think that they are and this
Speaker 1: ties down to this ties down to something very cliche,
Speaker 1: which is like the love language is right? And I
Speaker 1: know that it's been said to death and studied to
Speaker 1: death and people will talk about the love languages and
Speaker 1: all and it's like blah like roll your eyes, right?
Speaker 1: But actually when you look at it from just a
Speaker 1: generic view, um what I find is love language could
Speaker 1: be different from what my partner finds, you know, intimate
Speaker 1: and finds romantic, right? And I think actually it's quite
Speaker 1: key to know about that. So for example, I mean
Speaker 1: if your love language is, I don't know gifting or
Speaker 1: time spent.
Speaker 2: My mind is touch and touch
Speaker 1: and quality time actually the same for me. So
Speaker 1: touch and quality time are important to me. So let's
Speaker 1: see if we are not the same though. Like let's
Speaker 1: say if my love language is gifting for example, or
Speaker 1: acts of service for example. And to me when I'm
Speaker 1: doing extra service towards you or giving you a gift
Speaker 1: that to me is showing you love. But you're like,
Speaker 1: what is this? Like? This is not
Speaker 1: this is not showing love to me. It's true to me.
Speaker 1: I just want time spent. That's it. And that's where
Speaker 1: like it's sort of
Speaker 1: um stalls a little or their disagreements and people feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not showing me enough love. But I am in
Speaker 1: my own way, right?
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I think in that in
Speaker 2: that kind of context, when it comes to love languages, right?
Speaker 2: Telling your partner how you want to be loved. This
Speaker 2: is so important.
Speaker 1: Yes. Which ties back to communications. You are slowly figuring
Speaker 2: it's true because like, like, like your your partner cannot
Speaker 2: read your mind right? And like as much as we
Speaker 2: would love to have that, right? We're
Speaker 1: also ideal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like can you imagine you get together with someone and
Speaker 2: suddenly we all gain mind reading powers. We would love
Speaker 2: that
Speaker 1: selective breeding cannot not all not all the time again.
Speaker 1: Like like
Speaker 2: reading reading
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: But as a result, right? I think a lot of
Speaker 2: things that, especially in our society, I would say in
Speaker 2: Singapore in Singapore. We live in a more conservative society
Speaker 2: as much as we would like to think we're more
Speaker 2: liberal these days, but we still have a lot of
Speaker 2: conservative values.
Speaker 2: It almost feels like it's not right for us to
Speaker 2: share our demands and our needs to tell people that
Speaker 2: we care about what we want. In fact, we find
Speaker 2: it easier sometimes to tell our friends who were not
Speaker 2: romantically involved with what we want and what we're lacking.
Speaker 2: Which is very strange because ideally you want to tell
Speaker 2: the person that you're closest to what you want
Speaker 2: because they are the ones that are
Speaker 2: supposed to be there to try to provide what you need.
Speaker 2: But we have this barrier to overcome. Because I think
Speaker 2: the way we were brought up was that our parents said,
Speaker 2: what is what
Speaker 2: whether sometimes what we ask from our parents, we may
Speaker 2: not be able to necessarily get. And as a result
Speaker 2: we become very guarded about the very things that they
Speaker 2: run deepest with us, right? And I think with your partner,
Speaker 2: this is where they're being an open book becomes very important.
Speaker 2: Being able to tell them what you want and tell
Speaker 2: them what you need. Not the I want to eat sushi,
Speaker 2: not that level, but the more like I appreciate your gifts.
Speaker 2: But I prefer if you color me more right? This
Speaker 2: is something that is very difficult to come from the
Speaker 2: mouth of singaporeans
Speaker 1: because I feel like you grew up in a environment.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's an asian thing, but I think
Speaker 1: it's the right like a lot of my friends, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes tell me because I'm very close to my family
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 1: you know, some some of my friends tell me, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you talk about everything to your
Speaker 1: parents or like how do you guys like hug each
Speaker 1: other when you leave? A lot of people don't have that,
Speaker 1: you know
Speaker 2: That's right. I personally believe that like if your parents
Speaker 2: allow you to be yourself,
Speaker 2: your parents allow you to be yourself, right? You will
Speaker 2: grow up allowing yourself to be yourself because if you
Speaker 2: grew up in environment, we are not allowed to be yourself.
Speaker 2: You will grow up thinking that you're not allowed to
Speaker 2: be yourself
Speaker 1: or you have to have some sort of marks. Exactly.
Speaker 1: You
Speaker 2: have to be a certain way. If not people don't
Speaker 2: like you don't love you, which is a very inner child.
Speaker 2: Never go away kind of thing a lot of times
Speaker 2: why like if you really really, really boil it down,
Speaker 2: Like why are we not comfortable telling our partners about
Speaker 2: certain things because we're worried that if we tell them
Speaker 2: they don't love us anymore.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's that runs deep you guys. It does,
Speaker 2: it's a very visceral thing and like we we can't
Speaker 2: we can't change that unless we acknowledge that. Yeah, right?
Speaker 2: Like we acknowledge the why we're not telling our partners,
Speaker 2: like for example, we talk about the context of partying,
Speaker 2: why why are we telling our partners? Could it be
Speaker 2: because we're already they're jealous or is it because we've
Speaker 2: had someone snapped at us about it before or is
Speaker 2: it we feel guilty because we know that we're overstepping
Speaker 2: certain boundaries. These are things that we have to acknowledge
Speaker 2: and then eventually tell our partner not only for us
Speaker 2: to allow ourselves to be ourselves but to reassure them
Speaker 2: that this no matter what we do, this relationship is
Speaker 2: still in the hierarchy of things higher than whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So essentially it's all about reassuring your partner in
Speaker 1: that sense, right? Because I think a lot of us
Speaker 1: get caught up in the whole like downplaying your situation
Speaker 1: kind of thing and we've all been guilty of doing
Speaker 1: that before. But you know when when it comes down
Speaker 1: to something as simple as a reassuring sentence or word
Speaker 1: or text or phone call
Speaker 1: when you look at it. You know in hindsight you're
Speaker 1: like oh actually a simple thing could have stopped everything
Speaker 1: from happening but when you're in the situation is very
Speaker 1: hard for you to see
Speaker 2: its true and like like you know coming back to
Speaker 2: different people wanting to be treated different way right? Like
Speaker 2: for example my co host Lester one of the strategy
Speaker 2: that he does when he goes out with his girlfriend
Speaker 2: at least right? So for only those like more hang
Speaker 2: out until late never talked to a girlfriend nights, he
Speaker 2: will change the wallpaper
Speaker 2: to the two of them and that is enough because
Speaker 2: they discussed it and then she said like you know
Speaker 2: for those, let's do that.
Speaker 1: She feels more reassured.
Speaker 2: Yes. And for her because he's actually much, much more overthink. Okay. Right.
Speaker 2: She will do the same.
Speaker 2: So that's interesting. That is sort of like the bridge right?
Speaker 2: Whereby we won't be too intrusive so much so that
Speaker 2: you cannot have your fun.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if let's say as a partner, you
Speaker 2: say that like I want to go and party but
Speaker 2: every 15 minutes I want you to text me
Speaker 1: right? That's going to be tough. That's
Speaker 2: Tough. Especially for two
Speaker 1: hours maybe forget where your phone is. Exactly, yeah. You
Speaker 2: become less and
Speaker 1: less lucid, right? And then it's
Speaker 2: Only 15 minutes. Suddenly you cannot count. Time
Speaker 1: Suddenly becomes four. Am I mean seriously? Exactly?
Speaker 2: Right? So like sometimes it's like the little things where
Speaker 2: you kind of meet in the middle and just having
Speaker 2: these things,
Speaker 2: it's enough to put your partner's mind at ease.
Speaker 1: It comes down to simple gestures sometimes that could work.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to read out a list of things
Speaker 1: from a relationship coach. Okay. You tell me what are
Speaker 1: some things that you would share and what you wouldn't
Speaker 1: with your partner. So you would share about your physical
Speaker 1: and mental health
Speaker 2: issues of course.
Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1: How about your financial situation,
Speaker 2: how much
Speaker 1: you earn and all that. I think
Speaker 2: I think financial situation we have to we have a
Speaker 2: segment that.
Speaker 1: Okay. Yes, yes. In
Speaker 2: terms of like being in
Speaker 1: debt is different from how much I earn every month.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: how much I learned, I think is reserved for a
Speaker 2: spouse level.
Speaker 1: Like
Speaker 1: I'm going to get married.
Speaker 2: You must sign a different
Speaker 1: subscription. Yes.
Speaker 2: Latino member. Okay.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: But other than that, in terms of the financial situation,
Speaker 2: in terms of, are you in debt? Right. Are you
Speaker 2: currently unemployed? Right. Right. Were you fired?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I never asked these things, you know
Speaker 1: anyone I was dating
Speaker 2: but before you get together, I think these are things
Speaker 2: important to find out. Like is there any major financial
Speaker 2: situation that you're
Speaker 2: part of? I think this is even more relevant as
Speaker 2: we grow a little bit older.
Speaker 1: I realized I, I really would just dive in hard
Speaker 1: first last time. Actually, no, this is a very good
Speaker 1: point because I never asked them about their financial, it
Speaker 2: could be something serious. Like for example, I mean by serious,
Speaker 2: I don't want to give it a negative connotation.
Speaker 2: It could be, they are supporting their family member who
Speaker 2: has a chronic disease.
Speaker 1: Okay. And
Speaker 2: that is a financial situation that is, that takes away
Speaker 2: certain things off the table for leisure. Okay, right. And
Speaker 2: that's where, that's where these kind of communications ideally you
Speaker 2: want to go into it before you go into the
Speaker 2: relationship
Speaker 2: and these are things that are not difficult to be
Speaker 2: honest about. You know, there's nothing to be ashamed about
Speaker 2: if you're supporting about a family member, right? Or like,
Speaker 2: I mean if you think about it, we draw it
Speaker 2: back to another picture. Another example that's easier to relate
Speaker 2: to what you want to know if your potential partner
Speaker 2: is a single parent.
Speaker 1: Yes, of course.
Speaker 2: So and we just continue this train of thought, wouldn't
Speaker 2: you like to know if your single parent, potential partner
Speaker 2: is supporting, supporting the child full time or with the
Speaker 2: ex
Speaker 1: partner And
Speaker 2: as a result that starts to starts to encourage into
Speaker 2: the realm of financials, right? And you talk about whether
Speaker 2: this person is supporting their child full time on an
Speaker 2: income
Speaker 2: or are they just based off of savings? Right? It
Speaker 2: becomes you suddenly realized that hey, these are important things
Speaker 2: to know before even boyfriend girlfriend with someone
Speaker 1: for sure, but that's not first date conversation definitely. I
Speaker 1: think after that we raised too much of this stuff
Speaker 1: on the first date, like
Speaker 1: maybe there won't be a second date after getting too
Speaker 1: serious already. Okay, Okay, the next one is your family
Speaker 1: issues and upbringing. Would you immediately share that with your
Speaker 1: partner or
Speaker 1: do you hold back certain things first
Speaker 2: did. Probably not
Speaker 1: not. Probably not. But
Speaker 2: unless in the joke context like, oh I have a
Speaker 2: tiger mom for example, but I would guess for legitimate
Speaker 2: problems that are, that will haunt you right? Probably not.
Speaker 2: First date.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: but probably reserved for the once again
Speaker 1: conversations come
Speaker 2: after before get together on stage.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 1: How about your grief or other traumatic life events in
Speaker 1: your past relationships or in your childhood that might still
Speaker 1: affect you to this day, which kind of like also
Speaker 1: goes into the realm of you know, a bit about
Speaker 1: your ex relationships or maybe things that still you know
Speaker 1: bother you from time to time. I mean this is
Speaker 1: a very um surface kind of
Speaker 2: examples
Speaker 1: but I actually dated a guy with the exact same
Speaker 1: name and surname as my current boyfriend.
Speaker 2: That's that's kind of what is the name you get
Speaker 2: like john lim?
Speaker 1: No, because I mean that could be like that.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Right. If you're telling me that I have to
Speaker 2: tell you the idea, li Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 2: This this that that I
Speaker 1: mean his surname is actually not the most common sung.
Speaker 1: It's sng
Speaker 2: that is quite interesting
Speaker 1: but it's not like Tan or right.
Speaker 1: Um so I withheld that information for quite a few dates. Actually.
Speaker 1: Didn't want to scare him off, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: him to think like I'm dating you because you have
Speaker 1: the same name as my ex who happened to be
Speaker 1: like my longest X ever. Right? And you will never
Speaker 1: guess this, they are related.
Speaker 2: No way. You know, we need a reality tv show
Speaker 2: on this like
Speaker 1: yeah, I really hope
Speaker 1: that my ex is not watching this right now but
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he knows that his Children relative. But
Speaker 1: I didn't, I did not know I had no,
Speaker 2: there is a wild chance that if chinese New Year
Speaker 2: one of these days.
Speaker 1: I know so we haven't gotten to. I know, I
Speaker 1: know that was the first thing that I thought about
Speaker 1: okay
Speaker 1: but because they are distantly really? I think there was
Speaker 1: some like family thing, I'm not quite sure what happened
Speaker 1: there but
Speaker 1: my excess family doesn't really get together with the extended family.
Speaker 1: So that's why I never met my current boyfriend in
Speaker 1: any social situations in the past. I might have actually
Speaker 1: met my current
Speaker 2: boyfriend. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Which would be really weird.
Speaker 2: That would've been really awkward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the thing is I withheld this information for
Speaker 1: quite a few days because we like having so much
Speaker 1: fun right? And
Speaker 1: you know I I told my friends, oh my God
Speaker 1: that the funniest thing happened, I'm dating this guy who
Speaker 1: has the exact same name and surname as my ex.
Speaker 1: They're like no way get out of here.
Speaker 1: He was the one that found out first actually. So
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything because it would scare him off
Speaker 1: but he realized that I was friends with his cousin,
Speaker 1: another girl on facebook and he was like hey how
Speaker 1: do you know this this girl.
Speaker 1: So then I went oh like you know this girl,
Speaker 1: she's actually like my ex's sister and then he went
Speaker 1: silent for
Speaker 2: no way
Speaker 1: silent because I didn't know that they were related at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 1: He went silent. He was like,
Speaker 1: you're joking,
Speaker 2: That's wild.
Speaker 1: He was like,
Speaker 1: that means like you did it, my cousin. That's wild.
Speaker 1: That's wild. It was the craziest thing.
Speaker 2: That's coming back to what you were asking earlier about
Speaker 2: about first date, right? I think it's fine bringing these
Speaker 2: kind of things up about your past relationships, but maybe
Speaker 2: that's a deep dive into it to find out a
Speaker 2: little bit more about what happened the circumstances, right?
Speaker 2: Might not be first date.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, of course, it
Speaker 2: might be first date relationship. Like, oh no,
Speaker 2: when was the last time you were
Speaker 1: you? Or when did you break up with your partner?
Speaker 1: I think that's that's
Speaker 2: that's information. That's fine. For a first date.
Speaker 1: What if your date asks you or your partner asks you?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you've gotten into this conversation yet,
Speaker 1: how many people you've had sex with?
Speaker 2: Ah So this
Speaker 1: is, yes.
Speaker 2: And in fact, this is something that
Speaker 2: ironically enough, I go into this conversation very early. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I think this is a good indicator of
Speaker 2: ah their comfort level. So, I think this, this comfort
Speaker 2: level is important because in any relationship, especially for me,
Speaker 2: I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, a
Speaker 2: sexual relationship is very important for
Speaker 1: me. Okay. So
Speaker 2: I would like to think that I would not date
Speaker 2: someone who wants to abstain your marriage for example,
Speaker 1: wow, Like, okay, have you ever been in that situation?
Speaker 2: Not because I've always been quite upfront about this and
Speaker 2: asking about that question about how many sexual partners they've
Speaker 2: had is a very good indicator about how open they
Speaker 2: are about sex,
Speaker 1: because it may not be the same as the amount
Speaker 1: of people they've dated. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Why would you want to
Speaker 1: know both? You would want to know both? Okay, ideally, right.
Speaker 2: And as a result, you would know how comfortable they
Speaker 2: are talking about sex, which is very important to me
Speaker 2: talking about sex and having an intimate
Speaker 2: sexual relationship. So as an as as an opener in
Speaker 2: that sense, in the first few days, if you're able
Speaker 2: to discuss this, it's very easy to then discuss the
Speaker 2: more intricate parts of sex.
Speaker 1: But
Speaker 1: I feel like for for some of us, especially for
Speaker 1: for girls and for women, right? Like, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: whether sometimes we feel a bit hesitant in saying too much.
Speaker 1: I mean,
Speaker 2: is it because of the stigma?
Speaker 1: Like, in a way, because, you know, as a guy, right?
Speaker 1: I'm sure like sometimes I'm not sure whether this is
Speaker 1: a stereotype as well, but I'm not sure that your
Speaker 1: bro setting or like,
Speaker 1: yeah, you know, like, you know, I did this girl, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you guys talk it, that's really
Speaker 1: not 100
Speaker 2: percent guys. Yeah, Yeah, bro, you
Speaker 1: know that girl man, she was born, I don't know
Speaker 1: how you guys communicated, but watch
Speaker 2: too many movies,
Speaker 1: maybe it's like a total stereotype,
Speaker 2: but like I think I'm quite, I'm quite fortunate because
Speaker 2: in my circle of circle of bros, we do not,
Speaker 2: we do not talk like we do not have that
Speaker 2: kind of conversations
Speaker 1: so thankfully,
Speaker 2: thankfully. But it's not it's not it's not it's not
Speaker 2: a long shot to say that there are people who
Speaker 2: are like that, right?
Speaker 1: Exactly, 100%.
Speaker 2: I do know people who are like, thankfully they're not
Speaker 2: in my close circle. So I would say that that
Speaker 2: that definitely stigmatizes certain behaviors, right?
Speaker 1: And it also normalizes, you know, men sleeping around and
Speaker 1: being more okay with it than versus
Speaker 1: if a girl says that immediately were like slut shamed
Speaker 1: or like called names, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: That's that's
Speaker 1: dry. And then they're like,
Speaker 1: yeah, man, that was awesome. I don't know, like nailed it.
Speaker 2: That's a little tricky. But I think that the way
Speaker 2: to to sort of like
Speaker 2: in a very before before we got to talk about
Speaker 2: avoiding it in a very roundabout way. In a very
Speaker 2: ironic serendipitous way we're living ironic serendipitous way, that is
Speaker 2: actually a great indicator of whether this potential partner is
Speaker 2: toxic in the abuse or not, right? Because if men
Speaker 2: are allowed to sleep around,
Speaker 2: like why street women because
Speaker 2: it's an equal world, right? And if your potential partner
Speaker 2: is talking like that about how, oh no, they're they're
Speaker 2: not a virgin anymore, but what about myself? I'm not
Speaker 2: a virgin too, but it doesn't matter because I'm going
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 1: double standard love it.
Speaker 2: It's great filter.
Speaker 1: You know, these kind of
Speaker 2: people just stay friends
Speaker 1: by maybe not even invite
Speaker 2: them to play mah jong take their money that you
Speaker 2: don't need to don't need to hold your hand.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: But you know, that that's a serendipitous part about it,
Speaker 2: but like, as a result, you know, this is why
Speaker 2: bringing up these kind of things in the very early stages.
Speaker 2: Very good to suss out these kind of people because
Speaker 2: you talk about talk about this kind of broad you
Speaker 2: to slut, shame goes right. On the flip side, there
Speaker 2: are women who come in with these kind of narratives
Speaker 2: as well, whereby they're like, what you talking about sex
Speaker 2: or like, why didn't you save till marriage slut shaming
Speaker 2: can go both ways. It's just that it's a lot
Speaker 2: more loud and prevalent when it comes to being applied
Speaker 2: to women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit more of a stigma when
Speaker 1: it comes to them
Speaker 2: and nobody likes being slut shamed or ashamed for anything
Speaker 2: they've done because
Speaker 2: not only is that something that is in the past
Speaker 2: you can't change ideally if I don't judge you for
Speaker 2: your past, you shouldn't judge me for mine, right?
Speaker 1: It's A two Way Street, basically.
Speaker 2: Exactly. So this this in that sense because of bringing
Speaker 2: it up very early in the conversation in the relationship,
Speaker 2: it's a great filter. You just be like this like this,
Speaker 2: this is so and so it's not for me, right?
Speaker 2: The views are too radical from mine as much as
Speaker 2: I would love for you to be in my life.
Speaker 2: But clearly there are some aspects of you that I
Speaker 2: can't accept.
Speaker 2: Goodbye.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, okay, so john we have a question from
Speaker 1: a viewer which is hypothetical, right, okay,
Speaker 1: would you be open to your partner if you were
Speaker 1: ever involved with a sex worker or if you were
Speaker 1: a sugar baby,
Speaker 2: right? I think this one will answer this myself.
Speaker 1: Sugar baby vibes. I don't know. I mean no need
Speaker 1: to answer. Okay,
Speaker 2: No, but like, just the thing personally, I I am
Speaker 2: very okay with sharing about things in my past because
Speaker 2: like my my thing on it has been,
Speaker 2: it's very simple, right? I don't judge you about your
Speaker 2: past and I hope that you won't judge me about mine,
Speaker 2: but in order to find out whether you would, I
Speaker 2: would be up front about mine. So, if I had
Speaker 2: engaged in a situation where but I paid for, I
Speaker 2: paid for sex, right, I would be very open with
Speaker 2: it because probably the person that paid for sex is
Speaker 2: a very different person from the person that's in front
Speaker 2: of you right now,
Speaker 2: right? And I'll be right upfront with that and whether
Speaker 2: I've been a sugar baby before, which is once again right,
Speaker 2: getting paid for sex, but this time I'm the one
Speaker 2: getting paid right,
Speaker 2: which is exciting,
Speaker 1: still looking right
Speaker 2: in my recovery instead of like, basically, but you get
Speaker 2: what I mean, right? So like, I mean I'm okay
Speaker 2: with being open with that and like I said, that
Speaker 2: would be a very good filter for me about the
Speaker 2: potential partner because if I do engage in those activities,
Speaker 2: I want my partner to be open minded enough
Speaker 2: to accept that
Speaker 2: ah I've done those things before, doesn't mean that I
Speaker 2: am now still.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there could
Speaker 1: be a multitude of reasons why that might have happened.
Speaker 1: I know I've read some stories online about people wanting
Speaker 1: to pay off their student loans or I don't know,
Speaker 1: payoff something in that phase of life when you're struggling
Speaker 1: and then
Speaker 1: you might have to resort certain things or opt for
Speaker 1: certain things and I don't want to, you don't want
Speaker 1: to judge
Speaker 2: people, you know, and that being said, I don't want to,
Speaker 2: I don't want to say that it's wrong that you
Speaker 2: don't want that. You cannot accept someone who has a
Speaker 2: certain passed, which it's perfectly fine. In fact, if
Speaker 2: there is a deal breaker for you then, so be
Speaker 2: it you guys will not work out, but why I'm
Speaker 2: even bringing it up is because you need to be
Speaker 2: able to bring this up to determine whether this partner
Speaker 2: is good for you in a very not romantic sense.
Speaker 2: In a very step back and view things logically sense.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is very famous quote from Bojack horseman.
Speaker 2: If you look at the world through rose tinted glasses,
Speaker 2: all the red flags just look like flags.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's right. And
Speaker 2: in order to have these kind of conversations, you need
Speaker 2: to take off your rose tinted glasses and talk to
Speaker 2: them and discuss within yourself whether someone who was a
Speaker 2: stryker baby is acceptable for you or whether someone. I
Speaker 2: mean you can even go in further, I might be
Speaker 2: a porn star. Right? Is there?
Speaker 1: Except there's something I want to tell us. No,
Speaker 2: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a monster. But if
Speaker 2: I were upon style,
Speaker 1: your name would be john doe, right?
Speaker 2: Maybe right. If I worked in the, in the adult
Speaker 2: industry and I have a really kick as name, right?
Speaker 2: And I share this with my partner. It is up
Speaker 2: to my partner to decide whether this is acceptable or not.
Speaker 2: But if you never bring this up
Speaker 2: and one fine day it comes back. That is a
Speaker 2: way harder conversation to have
Speaker 1: that. If you are in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with that. I mean on that note though,
Speaker 1: this just popped in my mind. I mean it's another
Speaker 1: difficult conversation and I'm not sure if you've had this
Speaker 1: conversation with any of your partners before STD testing.
Speaker 2: Have you
Speaker 1: ever spoken about this with your partner
Speaker 2: interestingly enough with my current partner because I mentioned this
Speaker 2: is the first
Speaker 2: ah partner that I have where we before get together.
Speaker 2: We actually had a long extensive talk
Speaker 2: about who we were and what we want and how
Speaker 2: we expect and how we expect this relationship to go
Speaker 2: and everything and what could potentially video breakers and what
Speaker 2: could potentially be things to work towards. Because we don't
Speaker 2: have a concrete answer yet. And that has been immensely
Speaker 2: helpful because that set the baseline for our future disagreements.
Speaker 2: So if you talk about S. D. I. Testing right?
Speaker 2: Usually it's very touchy because it almost feels like
Speaker 2: in singaporean context. If we discuss this, if someone, if
Speaker 2: I ask you whether you're tested,
Speaker 2: it almost feels accusatory
Speaker 1: like offensive almost like you don't know whether to bring
Speaker 1: it up.
Speaker 2: Are you trying to say that I'm dirty when that's
Speaker 2: the wrong stigma.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Right. If
Speaker 2: you talk about, let's say you talk about S. T. I.
Speaker 2: So common one that people like to ask about is
Speaker 2: clear media for example if you want to talk about
Speaker 2: it should be at the same level as asking whether
Speaker 2: you're vaccinated.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Enough. Like everyone check their vaccination status
Speaker 2: but it should be at that same level. Like do
Speaker 2: you go for a vaccine? No, that's fine. If you went, yes,
Speaker 2: that's fine. Have you tested for Comedia? No, I've never
Speaker 2: actually gone for it. It should be at that level
Speaker 2: because sexual health
Speaker 2: is very much physical health.
Speaker 1: It is 100%,,
Speaker 1: you know, I think for a lot of my girlfriends
Speaker 1: and I as well, sometimes we talk about these things, right?
Speaker 1: Because you know, it's it's just unfortunate that at times
Speaker 1: girls tend to show a little bit more symptoms more
Speaker 1: so than men and you know, depending on what your
Speaker 1: relationship status is. If you're single and you know, you're
Speaker 1: free to do what you want, then you should also
Speaker 1: take care of your body in that way.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. That
Speaker 1: is definitely physical health that you should be looking out
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: And like, you know, it's I feel that this is
Speaker 2: such a, such an intimate part of of each individual
Speaker 2: because not only is sex at super lacking in Singapore,
Speaker 2: so nobody
Speaker 1: talked about it like nobody's there is to talk about it.
Speaker 2: And so much so that sometimes even resources to find
Speaker 2: out how to get tested, it's very difficult to access.
Speaker 2: You don't know whether you google someone might be looking
Speaker 2: over your shoulder, anything that you know, you're infected
Speaker 1: and the next thing, you know, you're on Tiktok, which
Speaker 1: is
Speaker 2: which is very ironic because if you truly are infected,
Speaker 2: if you truly are infected,
Speaker 2: then all the more you should be seeking medical help
Speaker 1: for yourself. Exactly for your health.
Speaker 2: And if your partner cannot accept that if you're 60
Speaker 2: a doctor, then what is this person thinking? You know,
Speaker 2: what should I do if I'm saying, you know, hope
Speaker 2: for the best. But at the moment of the month
Speaker 2: and hope for the best. No. Right? See a doctor
Speaker 2: and get fixed. And as a result, I think discussing
Speaker 2: um pass
Speaker 2: ah relationships with with S. T. I. S. It's it's
Speaker 2: incredibly important.
Speaker 1: So safe to say you've fully had this conversations
Speaker 2: we have. In fact, we've had we've had talks about
Speaker 2: funny incidents of close close brushes and stuff like that
Speaker 2: because my current partner has had a situation whereby one
Speaker 2: of her friends
Speaker 2: accused her of sleeping with
Speaker 2: her boyfriend and as a result infecting your boyfriend with
Speaker 2: the media and that's why she has chlamydia. And then,
Speaker 2: and then my partner is like,
Speaker 2: what?
Speaker 1: This is brand new information,
Speaker 2: aren't we both
Speaker 1: fine? You
Speaker 2: know, why not only does that become easier for us
Speaker 2: to discuss potential sexual health issues? Because there are a
Speaker 2: plethora right? It's not just S. T. I.
Speaker 1: Of course not. There's so many
Speaker 2: kinds like if you talk about for for women, especially
Speaker 2: especially for women who are sexually active.
Speaker 2: Even the simple talk about HPV talking about when your
Speaker 2: period is around, you want to miss your fertility because
Speaker 2: you want to have kids, right?
Speaker 2: Those are things that you can only talk about if
Speaker 2: you open the open the gates to talk about sexual health.
Speaker 2: And one of the path into that is to talk
Speaker 2: about stds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I mean, it's great to know that
Speaker 1: you have such an open and honest. I do. In
Speaker 2: fact, I have the flow app on my, on my
Speaker 2: phone because you know, I don't want to be a
Speaker 2: parent
Speaker 1: yet,
Speaker 1: but eventually you want to be.
Speaker 2: Actually, no. Actually, ironically enough, I told myself in five
Speaker 2: years I'm going to go for a vasectomy because I
Speaker 2: do not want to have kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: wait, this is another episode altogether. It is, it is
Speaker 2: and that is something that I brought up to my
Speaker 2: partner before we got together, I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to have kids. And my level of commitment is,
Speaker 2: I'm going
Speaker 2: to snip
Speaker 1: snip
Speaker 2: Really? Yes.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine
Speaker 2: if you reach a point in your life where you
Speaker 2: have kids for example, and you're married, you're happily married
Speaker 2: with your spouse and you don't want to have kids anymore.
Speaker 2: But you don't dare to bring up to your partner
Speaker 2: that you want to go for a vasectomy or likewise
Speaker 2: the female equivalent with fallopian tubes with tight tubes or
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 2: How miserable must that be.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So coming back to communication again, it is from
Speaker 1: the get go
Speaker 2: and also allowing yourself to be yourself and the only
Speaker 2: way to allow yourself to be yourself with your partner
Speaker 2: is if you're honest with them and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we've learned so much as well today,
Speaker 1: not just about you as a person, but
Speaker 1: in our discussion, you know about being open and honest
Speaker 1: in a relationship and
Speaker 1: sharing your past secrets and stories about your access and
Speaker 1: all that. So is it safe to conclude that there
Speaker 1: still has to be a small level of privacy between
Speaker 1: two people who are in a relationship, but of course
Speaker 1: with everything else, like the bigger picture things, you know
Speaker 1: the stuff that
Speaker 1: is very important for the relationship to move forward, you
Speaker 1: have to share those things
Speaker 2: like I mentioned earlier, so you must remember that you
Speaker 2: are an individual, you're not just an amalgamation of two
Speaker 2: people what made the two of you get together in
Speaker 2: the first place, right, is the individual self that you
Speaker 2: were
Speaker 2: right and this individual self that you will want to
Speaker 2: grow with the relationship, not stagnant because of the relationship
Speaker 2: and that's where that level of privacy and personal um
Speaker 2: individualism becomes highly important. So it's like a balancing act
Speaker 2: between openness with your partner and
Speaker 2: privacy. Now, these two things can be intertwined and overlapped,
Speaker 2: like you can be open with your need for privacy
Speaker 2: with your partner
Speaker 2: and so they're like actually actually this thing I'm not
Speaker 2: comfortable to share with you, this is where because if
Speaker 2: you set the base with your partner, right? In terms
Speaker 2: of the honesty and the openness, you would enable your
Speaker 2: partner to allow you to be private about certain things
Speaker 2: without feeling that I am keeping secrets from you. It's
Speaker 2: just that I am uncomfortable and
Speaker 2: your partner can only have this understanding about you if
Speaker 2: you have been honest and upfront with them about everything else,
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: summed it up perfectly and hide it back down to
Speaker 1: the essentials of a relationship. Have you ever thought about
Speaker 1: being like a counselor or therapist? I mean like I
Speaker 1: get that vibe a little
Speaker 2: bit. I don't know, you know, but like, you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes I don't know if this is like, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, asian parents have to praise you for certain things.
Speaker 2: Sometimes when my dad watched watched my podcast,
Speaker 1: what is he saying? Maybe
Speaker 2: you should go and try and learn to be a counselor, whatever.
Speaker 2: I think my heart really makes it so good and
Speaker 2: I'm just like
Speaker 2: just a dude with a lot of opinions and
Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts and
Speaker 2: it's just me and I'm just unorthodox. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if, I mean, maybe it may
Speaker 1: not apply to everyone that doesn't apply to everyone and
Speaker 1: you know what, I think it worked perfectly for our
Speaker 1: audience here today. So thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: open about it, thank you for sharing as well, Once
Speaker 1: again an update with him in five years, we're looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. Thank you so much for listening to
Speaker 1: this episode of Men explain and john thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here today.
Speaker 2: Yes. Thank you Sonia and Team for having me
Speaker 1: now. If you like this episode hit the follow button.
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