Speaker 1: Now, a letter to myself with Joel Chua.
Speaker 1: Hi there and thanks so much as always for joining us.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is a mentor for young Malay Muslim
Speaker 1: undergraduates who's working to give them a stronger footing as
Speaker 1: they prepare to begin their careers. And to do this,
Speaker 1: he's roping in other successful and dedicated professionals from the
Speaker 1: community to be role models, not just to inspire the
Speaker 1: younger generation to redefine their limits, but also to help
Speaker 1: them uncover their own definition of success and meaning.
Speaker 1: Sharing with us his own journey and how it translates
Speaker 1: into his work. The program director of Mara Mentoring, which
Speaker 1: is part of Minakki Club, Safafi Salam Buhari Jaun. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the program. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks so much for welcoming me as well.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to have you indeed, Safa. All right,
Speaker 1: so I read recently that you wrote that as part
Speaker 1: of your work, what underpins your work is that you
Speaker 1: want to see your mentees, undergraduates from the Malay Muslim community.
Speaker 1: You want them to see what happens when they approach
Speaker 1: their career with intention and openness. How have these elements
Speaker 1: of intention and openness being reflected in your own journey
Speaker 1: towards your own professional development?
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks for the question. So I think intention, openness,
Speaker 2: they both sound like really great things, but
Speaker 2: Um, if you have, you, you could say if you
Speaker 2: have too much of, of, uh, one or the other,
Speaker 2: you can end up in a pretty different directions. Um,
Speaker 2: I would say, let's say I, I set my intention, uh,
Speaker 2: very early on that I'd like to be in tech
Speaker 2: or I'd like to be in data, um, which is
Speaker 2: what I did when I was in university. I, I
Speaker 2: studied data analytics. If let's say I kept that intention
Speaker 2: and I wasn't open enough, I wouldn't have ended up
Speaker 2: in my current, uh, capacity as a sustainability consultant.
Speaker 2: Um, at the same time, if, if you have too
Speaker 2: much openness and you never really set your, your, your
Speaker 2: foot onto something that you want to pursue, uh, then
Speaker 2: you'll always be that kind of guy that's been pulled
Speaker 2: in lots of different directions and it doesn't always work
Speaker 2: out for the best result. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So tell us about that journey. It was a little
Speaker 1: bit challenging, I understand, for you to, to land this
Speaker 1: current position that, that you're doing now. It's something of
Speaker 1: a passion of yours, but it didn't come easy.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So, I mean, for, for context, I'm a, I'm
Speaker 2: a strategy consultant at Eden Strategy Institute, so we are
Speaker 2: a Singaporean strategy consultancy. We focus on sustainability and social innovation. So, um,
Speaker 2: people always ask me, what did you study to get here?
Speaker 2: I say, well, not, not something that was very related,
Speaker 2: you know, I graduated with a data analytics, uh, kind
Speaker 2: of major, uh, my internships were unrelated and all that, so.
Speaker 2: Um, really, the, the, the, it was, it was really
Speaker 2: quite a career switch for me after two years into
Speaker 2: the working world already, um, suddenly leaving data analytics and,
Speaker 2: and wanting to go into sustainability.
Speaker 1: Why did you want to do that, make that
Speaker 1: switch?
Speaker 2: that's, that's, that was, uh, uh, it wasn't an overnight. Um,
Speaker 2: so 11 of the things that happened to me, uh,
Speaker 2: in my previous company was that as part of the
Speaker 2: corporate strategy team.
Speaker 2: Um, we started looking at, um, the where our products,
Speaker 2: so it was an insurance company, where our products could
Speaker 2: really help, uh, communities and not just, not just in
Speaker 2: Singapore but beyond. So I had this chance to work
Speaker 2: on a digital health product in Vietnam and I, I
Speaker 2: loved that opportunity so much because um I wasn't focusing
Speaker 2: on just the tools, the data analytics tools or the dashboards,
Speaker 2: but really about the outcomes and the impacts of that.
Speaker 2: And I wanted to look for a career where that
Speaker 2: could be really the prime focus of, of my, of
Speaker 2: my work, and that's where sustainability came in for me.
Speaker 1: What, what did it take for you? What were the,
Speaker 1: what was the mindset of all the risks you had
Speaker 1: to take in order to make this switch?
Speaker 2: No, it was, it was uh it was a very calculated, uh,
Speaker 2: jump off a cliff.
Speaker 2: So, um, I was looking with a with a parachute, yes,
Speaker 2: with a parachute and a trampoline at the bottom that
Speaker 2: I couldn't really see, but I, I, I had to
Speaker 2: believe that it was there.
Speaker 2: Um, it, you know, a couple of weeks or months
Speaker 2: before I, before I resigned, I told myself, OK, I'm
Speaker 2: going to try until this date, uh, to see if
Speaker 2: I can land a position myself in sustainability. If not,
Speaker 2: then I'm going to take a leap of faith and I'm,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, I'm gonna search for my job full time. Um, so,
Speaker 2: as luck would have it, that's, that's really what happened
Speaker 2: to me and
Speaker 2: Uh, it took me about, let's say 34, maybe 5 months, um,
Speaker 2: of going to networking sessions, human libraries, attending courses, uh,
Speaker 2: taking certifications and stuff, and finally meeting my, my current
Speaker 2: boss at this company. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you met your current boss at a human library event,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole story behind that encounter, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: But um I want to find out at this point
Speaker 1: in time about your, your other portfolio, the, the other
Speaker 1: hat that you wear, which is, of course, as program
Speaker 1: director of Mara mentoring. You are a mentor yourself. How
Speaker 1: much of your own experience translates into the approach that
Speaker 1: you take when you mentor other young Malay Muslim graduates?
Speaker 2: It's, it's, uh, you know, it comes from a place of,
Speaker 2: of firsthand experience. I think I wouldn't have so much
Speaker 2: faith in mentoring or so much belief in the value
Speaker 2: and the necessity of it.
Speaker 2: Um, if I didn't experience the, the impacts of it
Speaker 2: myself in, in, in my career and, and really the,
Speaker 2: the fact that I have, uh, the fact that I
Speaker 2: was able to complete that transition into sustainability from a
Speaker 2: relatively um unrelated fields I might say, um, it's really
Speaker 2: just based on the faith and the, the belief that, that, uh, my,
Speaker 2: my boss who is who is also my
Speaker 2: mentor had in me, you know, he had more faith
Speaker 2: in me than than I maybe had for myself. And that's,
Speaker 2: that's how I uh completed that.
Speaker 1: What was it about that experience you had as a mentee?
Speaker 1: How specifically did you benefit from that mentor-mentee relationship that
Speaker 1: allowed you to make these decisions that eventually led you
Speaker 1: to where you are today?
Speaker 2: So it's, it's really quite amazing. Um
Speaker 2: Let's just talk about the human library, uh, event that
Speaker 2: I went for, right? I, I woke up one day
Speaker 2: and I was, this was like after maybe 2 or
Speaker 2: 3 months of attending like networking sessions over and over
Speaker 2: and over again and I, I woke up one day
Speaker 2: and I was like, do I really want to go
Speaker 2: for this? Um, it was all the way at Pa
Speaker 2: Leba and I stayed in Bukit Panjang at the time. So, uh,
Speaker 2: I forced myself out of bed and it
Speaker 2: It turned out to be one of the best decisions ever. Um, I,
Speaker 2: I went to this human library and really I wasn't
Speaker 2: looking for a job. I was looking for advice. So
Speaker 2: I was just asking him, hey, you know, I've been
Speaker 2: applying for a couple of jobs and people keep putting
Speaker 2: me into this data box and I'm really trying to
Speaker 2: break out, but
Speaker 2: they just like
Speaker 1: were
Speaker 2: they?
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I was, I was a data analytics graduate and
Speaker 2: um and my first two years I was working on
Speaker 2: very related data analytics, digital strategy kind of stuff, even
Speaker 2: when it was into marketing as marketing analytics, so.
Speaker 2: Um, very, very much people would see, oh, you're a
Speaker 2: data guy through and through. Why do you want to
Speaker 2: leave this? Isn't that like where the big bucks are?
Speaker 2: And I, I, I, no matter how many times I
Speaker 2: told them, it's not about the big bucks that I
Speaker 2: that I'm looking for, it somehow it's already.
Speaker 2: The, the, the answer that they're going with. So, um, with,
Speaker 2: with the recruiters I was talking to, there was this,
Speaker 2: there was this imaginary wall, right? You're a data person,
Speaker 2: just stick to
Speaker 2: data.
Speaker 1: That was another stereotype that you had to grapple with
Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, it's it's a stereotype that I I
Speaker 2: never expected and that's why I, I tell my mentees
Speaker 2: now as well, um, this thing about intentionality and openness, right,
Speaker 2: we look for a focus, we look for something that's, uh, we,
Speaker 2: we have enough curiosity, enough passion to dive into.
Speaker 2: But never, never keep the, the other doors closed, right? You,
Speaker 2: you never know what lands on your doorstep and uh
Speaker 2: you want to be prepared to be able to open
Speaker 2: that door one day. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so what was it about the quality of, of
Speaker 1: your mentor that really resonated with you?
Speaker 2: Um, so in, in a, in a, in a nutshell,
Speaker 2: he was the first, maybe he was, I think he
Speaker 2: was maybe the first person to say, hm, no, that
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense that, you know, you study data and everything,
Speaker 2: it doesn't doesn't seem like that's the only thing that
Speaker 2: you should be able to do, you know, no matter
Speaker 2: what other people tell you. So let me tell you
Speaker 2: how and and then he, he, he advised me about
Speaker 2: all the the sort of intersections between
Speaker 2: Uh, the data and the digital realm of sustainability and
Speaker 2: even beyond that, actually, it's about the transferable skills, right?
Speaker 2: Not really the domain knowledge, but how you think about
Speaker 2: uh problems analytically, how you use those skill sets, uh,
Speaker 2: statistical rigor and and and how you apply it to
Speaker 2: work as a consultant, and I ended up
Speaker 2: here.
Speaker 1: So he didn't.
Speaker 1: Hold you the way many other people were pigeonholing you
Speaker 1: just based on what they saw on your CV.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely. So it was, I mean, in, in a,
Speaker 2: in a nutshell, I, I, I thought I had a
Speaker 2: lot of faith in myself to even want to make
Speaker 2: a career switch. Uh, he had even more faith in
Speaker 2: me because at the end of the, the whole end
Speaker 2: of that conversation.
Speaker 2: Uh, I was just asking him for advice, but he
Speaker 2: was like, you know, maybe you can really just consider
Speaker 2: a career here. Why don't you work for me? That's
Speaker 2: how I ended up working here.
Speaker 1: I see. OK. So based on that experience that you had,
Speaker 1: how are you translating that experience today in your role
Speaker 1: as a mentor, not just a mentor, but your program
Speaker 1: director of a mentorship program under Club Mend Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of mentees
Speaker 2: come to the program.
Speaker 2: Um, with, with already a career or like an industry vertical.
Speaker 2: That they're already thinking of. I studied finance, so I,
Speaker 2: I'm going to focus my time on looking for just
Speaker 2: finance roles. I studied accounting so the same thing. So, uh,
Speaker 2: what we, what we uh put into the program at
Speaker 2: the very start, before we talk about career tactics, before
Speaker 2: we're talking about excelling at your job, we just uh
Speaker 2: give inject uh healthy, uh, quite a, quite a heavy
Speaker 2: dose of uh positive uh constructive skepticism on them. You
Speaker 2: want to take a finance course? OK, tell me why,
Speaker 2: tell me why. Is it just because you
Speaker 2: So, so, so that's how we injected into that we
Speaker 2: try to open their horizons a bit before we get
Speaker 2: them to sort of say, OK, for the next few months,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm going to be working towards.
Speaker 1: How one of the the unique considerations that you need
Speaker 1: to take into account because the, the, this, this platform
Speaker 1: supports specifically Malay Muslim undergraduates, are there, are there certain
Speaker 1: cultural considerations specific to, to the group, the community that
Speaker 1: you're supporting?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So, um, in the very first, uh, in the, the,
Speaker 2: the maybe the very first thing to mention is just, uh,
Speaker 2: the law of numbers, right? When we're talking about
Speaker 2: Um, mentors that the Malay Muslim, uh, our main Muslim
Speaker 2: mentees or Malay Muslim undergraduates themselves can, can relate to. We,
Speaker 2: we tend to look, when we tend to look, uh, for,
Speaker 2: for things that are relatable to us in, in our
Speaker 2: role models, right, uh, whether that is in terms of
Speaker 2: whether you're introvert or extrovert, whether it's from the country
Speaker 2: you're from or the, the, the racial group that you're from, um, but, uh, we,
Speaker 2: we tend to uh get this uh positive.
Speaker 2: of, of, of maybe uh the difficulty of finding a
Speaker 2: role model for, for, for ourselves, uh, as, as young
Speaker 2: Malay Muslim uh professionals or aspiring professionals. Um, and the,
Speaker 2: the surprising part is there's actually a lot of us, uh,
Speaker 2: on the, on, we, we think that we embarked on
Speaker 2: this because we thought it was a it was a
Speaker 2: mentee issue, we're here to help the mentees, but actually
Speaker 2: on the mentor side, we noticed that a lot of
Speaker 2: young Malay Muslim professionals themselves are not
Speaker 2: Uh, kind of putting their hands up and, and, and,
Speaker 2: you know, showing their worth to the, to the world
Speaker 2: as well, not because they're, uh, of, of poor quality,
Speaker 2: but just because they're they're afraid of not being
Speaker 1: humble. In fact, um, I read an article that you
Speaker 1: wrote a few months ago and there was this rather
Speaker 1: compelling quote that you wrote in this article, you wrote
Speaker 1: that we faced stereotypes for decades and while we've made
Speaker 1: strides to close those gaps,
Speaker 1: There is still a perception among some in our community
Speaker 1: that the identity is something to be discarded if they
Speaker 1: want to succeed. What, what did you mean by that?
Speaker 2: So I think the, the, the first thing I would
Speaker 2: just want to say is that on this, on this
Speaker 2: point of closing gaps, I think I look at my
Speaker 2: mentees and really they, they, they are excellent, excellent academically in,
Speaker 2: in the subjects and whatever, even the non-academic aspects, right?
Speaker 2: So really they don't have much reason to, to, to
Speaker 2: put themselves down or to not go for the competitive
Speaker 2: roles or something like that.
Speaker 2: But somehow there is still that sense that, um, you know,
Speaker 2: that that's a very competitive position. I think I won't
Speaker 2: try to play in that pool and I tell them,
Speaker 2: what makes you think that you won't be able to
Speaker 2: succeed in that pool? Like what stops you from just trying, right?
Speaker 2: Why don't you let the competition decide for yourself whether
Speaker 2: it's good enough for you. Um, so I think there's on,
Speaker 2: on that end there's, uh,
Speaker 1: but
Speaker 1: when you ask them the question, what is the response
Speaker 1: that you get from them?
Speaker 2: Ah, I see. So, well, it's
Speaker 2: I, I, I, I can't really say that I get
Speaker 2: a very, very good and convincing answer to, to that
Speaker 2: convinces me that they are really not uh able to
Speaker 2: compete on that stage, right? So what, what tells me, uh,
Speaker 2: what that tells me or what it implies is that
Speaker 2: I'm ingesting a kind of a stereotype. I'mingesting a kind
Speaker 2: of expectation that I, that somebody has set for me
Speaker 2: and that I've kind of accepted for myself, um, and
Speaker 2: I think more and more uh young Malay Muslim undergraduates and, and,
Speaker 2: and students in general, young professionals are being, are being
Speaker 2: more aware of that. So they're challenging that.
Speaker 1: How, how do you challenge that as as the as
Speaker 1: the head of this mentorship program, how do you challenge that,
Speaker 1: that stereotype that leads to these self-limiting beliefs?
Speaker 2: um.
Speaker 2: So I think one is in the, we, we bring in,
Speaker 2: we bring in uh mentors that that walk that exact journey, right?
Speaker 2: We bring in mentors from companies like, like Singapore Airlines
Speaker 2: and from TikTok and ByteDance and lots of lots of
Speaker 2: companies like that where, uh, many of our mentees would
Speaker 2: love to get in, but you just never known that
Speaker 2: there were people that they could reach out to and
Speaker 2: that uh really would, would, would sacrifice their uh Saturday
Speaker 2: one Saturday morning for 6 months just to talk to them.
Speaker 2: Um, and, and, and we, we make sure that they
Speaker 2: know that there are people like that, we, we make
Speaker 2: a handshake happen.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being with us and staying with us.
Speaker 1: On a letter to myself on CNA 938, we're chatting
Speaker 1: today with the program director of Mara Mentoring, which is
Speaker 1: a platform under Mendai Club. His name is Safafi Salam
Speaker 1: Buhari Jaon, and he's been sharing with us his own
Speaker 1: personal journey.
Speaker 1: As well as uh what he intends to do, what he's, uh,
Speaker 1: what he and his colleagues do with Mara mentoring, uh,
Speaker 1: which you'll be sharing with us a little bit more
Speaker 1: in just a little while. Um, but before that, so,
Speaker 1: before I ask you to share with us the, you know,
Speaker 1: the letter that you have written to your younger self
Speaker 1: based on the most important lessons you've learned through your journey, um,
Speaker 1: share with us first, how did you become program director
Speaker 1: of this, of this platform?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a, it's a pretty long story. Um, I
Speaker 2: could start all the way from how I got into
Speaker 2: mentoring or I could start about how I got into
Speaker 2: this
Speaker 2: program in
Speaker 1: 1.5 minutes where you think you think 15 minutes. All right,
Speaker 2: well, very, very short story about the starting of it.
Speaker 2: I think it all started when I was um tutoring my,
Speaker 2: my nephew. He was retaking his O Levels and
Speaker 2: Uh, I, I thought he needed a tutor. Turns out
Speaker 2: actually he needed like a mentor. When I talked to him,
Speaker 2: I realized not that this is a, uh, uh, not
Speaker 2: smart kid, it's just that he's got a lot of
Speaker 2: self-esteem issues, and as I, as I, I, I worked
Speaker 2: with him on that, I, I just couldn't help but, um,
Speaker 2: wish that I had someone like that um to guide
Speaker 2: me through my own self-esteem issues when I was back
Speaker 2: in school.
Speaker 2: So, um, fast forward the story a little bit through
Speaker 2: a couple of these mentoring stints, um, I, I really
Speaker 2: found the kind of conversations at the university undergraduate level, um,
Speaker 2: mentees at that level to be very enlightening because, um,
Speaker 2: that's the first time for, for many people, uh, where
Speaker 2: you're not choosing between course A and cause B or
Speaker 2: elective A and elective B, but you're choosing a career
Speaker 2: options are endless. That should excite you, but a lot
Speaker 2: of them are nervous and scared and
Speaker 2: Uh, it, it, it, it carries that feeling carries on
Speaker 2: throughout your career, right? Um, so I, I, I, I
Speaker 2: asked the, the ex-director of, of my mentoring, Hey, do
Speaker 2: you guys have a slot on your organizing team? And he,
Speaker 2: he ended up telling me, actually my whole team is, uh,
Speaker 2: my whole team is moving on, so would you like
Speaker 2: to come on and, and, and, uh, take charge? Uh,
Speaker 2: and another leap of faith, um, I said, OK, sure,
Speaker 2: I'll see what I can do and
Speaker 2: Uh, 3 years from then, uh, I'm, I'm here
Speaker 1: now. OK. So you assumed this role about 3 years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was 23
Speaker 1: years ago, yeah. OK. And we'll find out a little
Speaker 1: bit more about the programs that Mara mentoring runs in
Speaker 1: just a little while, but at this point in time,
Speaker 1: you know, you shared with us a little bit about
Speaker 1: your own journey. If you were to reflect a little
Speaker 1: bit more into identify the most valuable lessons you've gained
Speaker 1: from this journey, if you could write that letter to
Speaker 1: your younger self, what would be the most valuable messages
Speaker 1: in this letter?
Speaker 2: So the first thing I would say is that what
Speaker 2: really matters at the end of the day is people.
Speaker 2: What really matters to me at least is, is people.
Speaker 2: That's how I found my way into uh mentoring, into,
Speaker 2: into volunteering. It's because of that little encounter that I
Speaker 2: had with my nephew and
Speaker 2: Um, that allowed me to connect with my past self, um, in,
Speaker 2: in that
Speaker 1: experience. When you say you connected with your past self,
Speaker 1: what do you mean when you reflected on, on your
Speaker 1: own self-esteem issues when you were much younger,
Speaker 2: is it? yeah yeah yeah. So I, I, I noticed
Speaker 2: in him, hey, you know, not too long ago I
Speaker 2: was just like that, and, uh, you know, I, I
Speaker 2: happened to turn out OK, um, but it would have
Speaker 2: been a much smoother, much happier right, if I had
Speaker 2: someone to to to lead me there, right.
Speaker 2: So what, what really matters is people, even in the
Speaker 2: way that I found myself in sustainability, it's not because
Speaker 2: I love trees or animals or I love cutting down
Speaker 2: carbon emissions per se, but just because I, I start
Speaker 2: to read about the effects that climate change has on,
Speaker 2: on people, we always think about people in our neighboring countries,
Speaker 2: but even in Singapore, uh, some of the rental.
Speaker 2: Flat communities, our gig economy workers who are driving on
Speaker 2: the roads, our migrant workers, the, the, the ones that
Speaker 2: are facing the brunt of climate change. So really what
Speaker 2: matters is people.
Speaker 1: What do you think tends to distract us from this,
Speaker 1: this core focus that you believe in, which is people
Speaker 1: at the end of the day? What do we tend
Speaker 1: to get distracted by?
Speaker 2: I think, um, well, to, to, to put it in
Speaker 2: a well-intentioned way, I think some, some people get distracted
Speaker 2: by the sense that there's so many people to help,
Speaker 2: there's too many people to help. What can I do?
Speaker 2: I can't help all, all these people, right? But um
Speaker 2: there's this famous thought experiment by this Australian philosopher. If
Speaker 2: there was somebody drowning in a pool in front of you,
Speaker 2: you'll probably go and help them. If there was somebody
Speaker 2: drowning in a pool that's maybe like 1 kilometer away
Speaker 2: and you're the only one that could help them, you
Speaker 2: would probably go and help them, but
Speaker 2: Um, if you knew that there were like 10, 100
Speaker 2: people other than you also standing around that pool, maybe
Speaker 2: you wouldn't, right. So I think the, the idea is, um,
Speaker 2: what can I do to help? I mean, uh, I, I,
Speaker 2: I might not be able to save the whole world,
Speaker 2: but saving one person from drowning, saving one person from, um,
Speaker 2: having to, having to go through the pain of, of,
Speaker 2: of poor academic results and and all that, that, I
Speaker 2: think that that matters, right? So.
Speaker 2: Uh, again, what really matters to me is people.
Speaker 1: Thank you for reminding us about that. And you know,
Speaker 1: you shared with us also that personal encounter you had
Speaker 1: with your, with your cousin, was it? You're your nephew, right, who,
Speaker 1: who reminded you of much younger Safa as well. At
Speaker 1: what point, you know, you shared with us that much
Speaker 1: younger version of yourself was also um experiencing self-esteem issues.
Speaker 1: At what point did you, did you get a better
Speaker 1: handle on those issues?
Speaker 2: Um, so I think I, I didn't really resolve these
Speaker 2: issues in, in, in school throughout the way. Um, really,
Speaker 2: maybe it was only in national service or maybe only
Speaker 2: in university where, uh, I
Speaker 2: I started taking up leadership opportunities or maybe they were
Speaker 2: presented to me I didn't really have a choice. I
Speaker 2: take them up and you know what, hey, I, I,
Speaker 2: I maybe it turns out that I can do well
Speaker 2: in this, in this scenarios and then I start to
Speaker 2: rewrite that narrative, you know, not everything I touch is
Speaker 2: destined for like mediocrity or destined for, for whatever bottom
Speaker 2: something percentile, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, so there were two parts of this equation being
Speaker 1: offered opportunities, that's part one and part two is saying
Speaker 1: yes to those opportunities, accepting those opportunities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, saying yes and and following through doing well or
Speaker 2: doing the best that you can with those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks very much for sharing that. That
Speaker 1: first message to your younger self, what really matters at
Speaker 1: the end of the day is people. Yeah. What's the
Speaker 1: second message to your younger self?
Speaker 2: Well, uh, it's a bit of the flip side of
Speaker 2: the coin. Um, we, we talk about caring for people
Speaker 2: what really matters, but on the other hand, uh, on the,
Speaker 2: on the, on the flip side also, I think my
Speaker 2: second message would be that it only takes one person
Speaker 2: really to, to believe in you, only takes one person to, to,
Speaker 2: to sit by you and, and help you through this
Speaker 2: math equation or one person to offer you a
Speaker 2: A job in sustainability consulting, um, it really only takes
Speaker 2: one person because, uh, you, you're going to take up
Speaker 2: one job, not, not 100, and you're going to take up,
Speaker 2: you know, you're gonna take one exam and stuff like that. So, um,
Speaker 2: really we, on, on the way I encountered so much, uh, uh,
Speaker 2: so much naysayers, so many naysayers and so many challenges
Speaker 2: trying to make that career switch and at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, it just required one person to believe
Speaker 2: in me, uh, as much, at least as much, but
Speaker 2: Uh, ultimately, even more than I believe in myself.
Speaker 1: And today in your role, are you that one person?
Speaker 1: Do you see yourself as that one person for somebody
Speaker 1: else?
Speaker 2: Um, yes, I try to be that person for my mentee,
Speaker 2: I think for my mentees, but, um, I think what's, uh,
Speaker 2: what's more important for me is, can I have more
Speaker 2: people to play that role, um, in, in a structured
Speaker 2: way through the program? Can I bring mentors that
Speaker 2: Uh, believe in their mentees more than the mentees believe
Speaker 2: in themselves, and can I continue to make the mentees
Speaker 2: be that kind of people for their peers and for
Speaker 2: their juniors outside the program as well. So, uh, that's,
Speaker 2: that's very much the spirit that we're operating this
Speaker 2: with.
Speaker 1: You know, in today's day and age where everybody is
Speaker 1: so busy, the most important thing is time. Time is
Speaker 1: a premium, right? How do you persuade people to
Speaker 1: To take that time, especially for your, your mentors, to
Speaker 1: take time out of their already very busy schedules to,
Speaker 1: to look at the mentee as that one person and
Speaker 1: to be that one person for the mentee.
Speaker 2: Well, I think um in, in the first place, we
Speaker 2: we make it as easy as possible for, for them
Speaker 2: to join, so we, we have this thing called the
Speaker 2: tribe mentoring system that I can talk about later.
Speaker 2: But uh we're not really putting them into one on
Speaker 2: one contexts. Um, that, that is a really amazing setting for,
Speaker 2: for very intimate conversations, but it's sometimes it can be
Speaker 2: kind of a barrier for people to, to want to
Speaker 2: even jump into those conversations. So we, we set them up,
Speaker 2: we put 3 mentees together with two mentors. So then
Speaker 2: it becomes kind of like a group discussion, a group hangout, right? So, um,
Speaker 2: it lowers the barrier to have these kinds of conversations
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 2: Um, rather, and it also gives you that sense that,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm helping more than just one person, I'm
Speaker 2: helping three people and, and they're gonna help each other
Speaker 2: as well. So I'd love to be part of this story. Um,
Speaker 2: you put it like that, uh, I think mentors become
Speaker 2: a lot more generous with their time
Speaker 2: in that sense.
Speaker 1: And, and your mentors are other young Malay Muslims who've
Speaker 1: who've already walked a path and can, can assume that
Speaker 1: role of a role model.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so 11 thing that we, we try to emphasize, so, uh,
Speaker 2: in the, in the first place, it's not just, uh,
Speaker 2: Malay Muslim professionals that we have as mentors. We have
Speaker 2: a lot of people from all sorts of communities that
Speaker 2: are coming and they, they, we really want to see
Speaker 2: our mentees, our Malay Muslim mentees succeed, um, but I
Speaker 2: think one of the challenges that that we do see
Speaker 2: in encouraging more Malay Muslim professionals to be mentors is
Speaker 2: they think they're not experienced enough. Uh, they think, oh,
Speaker 2: I have too few years of experience. Oh, I'm not,
Speaker 2: I'm nobody, I'm not like a senior manager da da da,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 2: Actually, the fact that you've made it out of school,
Speaker 2: the fact that you're you're in a job that you
Speaker 2: like is, is something to be applauded already and that's
Speaker 2: what you want to tell our mentees.
Speaker 1: Did you have those thoughts yourself before you assumed the
Speaker 1: role of a mentor?
Speaker 2: Oh, well, I, I guess I started mentoring, um, quite
Speaker 2: early on, so maybe I maybe I didn't have that
Speaker 2: space to to be like a kind of impostor syndrome
Speaker 2: for myself, but, um.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my first ever mentoring opportunity was uh to mentor
Speaker 2: uh two IT students and uh rather than that being
Speaker 2: the main concern, I think my main concern was like, oh, I,
Speaker 2: I didn't walk that educational path myself, so I, I
Speaker 2: was kind of afraid that I wouldn't be able to
Speaker 2: say things that they could relate with, but it turned
Speaker 2: out fine in the end.
Speaker 1: It's good to know. Thank you for sharing that message
Speaker 1: to your younger self. It only takes one person to
Speaker 1: make a difference. What's, what's the message to your younger self?
Speaker 2: So my, my third message is maybe more about youth
Speaker 2: development rather than mentoring and in general youth youth development, youth,
Speaker 2: youth advocacy, youth activism. So, um, the message is that
Speaker 2: you're never too young to say something worth hearing, you're
Speaker 2: just not confident enough, right? So the solution to that
Speaker 2: is not to grow up, the solution is to get
Speaker 2: more confident. So,
Speaker 2: Uh, you ask more, you read more, or you do more, right? That's,
Speaker 2: that's the ways that you can build your confidence in
Speaker 2: I think it's so important.
Speaker 2: Um, right now in, in, in, uh, in, for example, the,
Speaker 2: the loudest voices in climate change are young people, the
Speaker 2: loudest voices in peace activism are young people in, in
Speaker 2: all sorts of issues, you name it, it's, it's, it's
Speaker 2: young people that are, that are pushing and asking for,
Speaker 2: for more because at the end of the day, we're
Speaker 2: gonna be the ones that are that are living the
Speaker 2: longest in the societies that we're designing.
Speaker 1: You sound like a pretty confident young person yourself. What
Speaker 1: would you say was the most
Speaker 1: Instrumental experience in your journey that helped you acquire the confidence.
Speaker 2: Well, um, it's, it's hard to pinpoint on one, I
Speaker 2: would say it's, it's been, uh, uh, fortunately for me
Speaker 2: ever since, like I said, maybe national service or since
Speaker 2: university when I start taking up this leadership opportunities, I
Speaker 2: think the, it's a, it's a cycle of small wins, uh,
Speaker 2: snowballing into, into bigger wins, and, uh, you know, you, you,
Speaker 2: you take the right level of responsibility and you do
Speaker 2: well with that responsibility and um
Speaker 2: That's, I think what's given me confidence so far, but I,
Speaker 2: I would say that the, in, in let's say the
Speaker 2: climate space specifically, so I attended this um uh program
Speaker 2: called the CYDP Climate Youth Development Program.
Speaker 2: Yeah, um, so this is organized. It was a Singapore.
Speaker 2: So basically, uh, it was organized by three government agencies,
Speaker 2: so National Youth Council, Ministry of Sustainability and Environment, as
Speaker 2: well as the National Climate Change Secretariat. Um, so it was,
Speaker 2: I was part of the Pioneer Batch. They, uh, put
Speaker 2: together a group of 40 youths, um, they sent us, they,
Speaker 2: we had like an induction program speaking to a lot
Speaker 2: of policymakers and corporate business leaders and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: talking about all sorts of issues within sustainability and
Speaker 2: Um, at the end of the day, uh, they sent
Speaker 2: 20 of us to, to Dubai COP 28, uh, and
Speaker 2: that's where I saw the, the, the plethora and a
Speaker 2: variety of so many young leaders, uh, not treating themselves
Speaker 2: as young leaders. Young leaders treating treating themselves as people
Speaker 2: whose voices are worth hearing, um.
Speaker 2: And that's really what, what, uh, gives me that confidence
Speaker 2: to come back and say, you're never too young to
Speaker 2: say something worth hearing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing,
Speaker 1: it's a compounding effect, isn't it, when you are in
Speaker 1: that kind of environment, that kind of element with other energetic,
Speaker 1: enthusiastic young people brimming with confidence and enthusiasm. It's infectious.
Speaker 2: It's, it's, it's, it's so interesting to hear their stories of,
Speaker 2: of resilience and their stories of problem solving in in
Speaker 2: their countries, you know, every country faces climate change slightly differently,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 2: Uh, to, to hear how they're responding in their context, right? Uh,
Speaker 2: it's so inspiring.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for staying with us on the letter
Speaker 1: to myself on CNA 938, continuing our chat with the
Speaker 1: program director of Marra Mentoring, Safafi Salam, Buhari Jaon, sharing
Speaker 1: with us more about the program.
Speaker 1: Um, you know, with my very limited amount of, uh,
Speaker 1: Malay knowledge, uh, Safa, when I, when I first heard
Speaker 1: the name of your, of your mentoring platform, Mara Mentoring,
Speaker 1: I thought, why, why so angry? Because Mara means angry
Speaker 1: in Malay, right? But of course, it's pronounced slightly differently,
Speaker 1: you don't seem like a very angry person. So Mara
Speaker 1: in this sense means what?
Speaker 2: So Mara is kind of another word for maju, so, uh,
Speaker 2: which means kind of advanced progress. So we always say
Speaker 2: Marra arahara, so advanced to, to in the forward direction.
Speaker 1: So Mara, M A R A, Mara means advanced but
Speaker 1: with an H behind that's Mara angry. OK, so pronunciation
Speaker 1: is important. All right, so what exactly does Mara mentoring
Speaker 1: do for the mentees who come in? There's a six-month program.
Speaker 1: What happens during these 6 months?
Speaker 2: So it's a, it's a 6 month structured mentoring program.
Speaker 2: So the word structured there is quite important.
Speaker 2: Um, what's different from, let's say, uh, unstructured or free-flow
Speaker 2: mentoring programs is that we have already set for them
Speaker 2: key dates. You, the whole group of 30 mentees and
Speaker 2: 20 mentors, you're gonna come to this location and we're
Speaker 2: gonna have an agenda and you're gonna, you're gonna talk, uh, for,
Speaker 2: for that duration. So it's, it's structured, it's different from
Speaker 2: places where um it's up to the mentee, the mentor
Speaker 2: to set up lunch for themselves or dinner or coffee
Speaker 2: or whatever. Um, so with that, we can kind of
Speaker 2: bring them through a very
Speaker 2: Uh, sequential or progressive kind of journey. So we usually, uh,
Speaker 2: bring them through three kinds of main focus areas. So
Speaker 2: the first is on career planning. So as I shared before,
Speaker 2: it's about opening their options, expanding their horizons a little bit,
Speaker 2: and then we talk about career tactics. So once you've
Speaker 2: set your sights on, on something that you want to
Speaker 2: go for this particular role in this company.
Speaker 2: Or sector, then we talk about career tactics. Uh, how
Speaker 2: are you going to put yourself in an interview, how
Speaker 2: are you gonna, uh, prepare your profile and your resume
Speaker 2: and what, what's your style going to be in a
Speaker 2: networking scenario? And the third focus area that we touch on,
Speaker 2: which I think is really important in a lot of
Speaker 2: mentoring programs, miss, is professionalization.
Speaker 2: Right, uh, we are trying to get them into the
Speaker 2: door and we're not just going to say, get you
Speaker 2: in the door and then bye bye I think the
Speaker 2: world the world's, uh, the world's all good now that
Speaker 2: you've got this job. We want them to do well
Speaker 2: in the job, right? So take the opportunity and do
Speaker 2: well with the opportunity. So, uh, all sorts of things
Speaker 2: like communication skills, confidence, uh, cultural fluency, that's, that's some
Speaker 2: of the things that we would touch on in this
Speaker 2: professionalization focus area.
Speaker 1: What are some of the, what is one.
Speaker 1: Proudest, what's the proudest achievement that you've been able to
Speaker 1: accomplish in the past 3 years?
Speaker 2: So, I think, well, I, I, I don't think I
Speaker 2: can claim uh full credit for this because I think it's,
Speaker 2: it's been uh going along uh progressively very well and
Speaker 2: with a lot of other ecosystem partners, but, um, for example,
Speaker 2: in our last run, so this is the 5th season
Speaker 2: that we're doing this 5th run.
Speaker 2: Um, we had, uh, we were twice oversubscribed, um, for our,
Speaker 2: on our the mentor side, right? So that's really great
Speaker 2: for us to hear because that means that we don't
Speaker 2: really have a glut or a shortage of of Malay
Speaker 2: Muslim professionals or just young professionals who want to help our,
Speaker 2: our mentees. That means, um, it's not just our mentees
Speaker 2: are getting more help, it's that our mentors are being
Speaker 2: more confident.
Speaker 2: to assume those those roles. So, um, that's come from
Speaker 2: a lot of like corporate partnerships come from a lot
Speaker 2: of success stories from from previous participants, but I'm just
Speaker 2: really happy to see that
Speaker 1: happening. Very nice, you know, you've been sharing with us
Speaker 1: your journey and very important to your younger self. If
Speaker 1: you could write another letter this time to your future self,
Speaker 1: what would be the message in this one?
Speaker 2: So I would, I would write, well I hope I can,
Speaker 2: I hope I can say this, but I would, I
Speaker 2: would say thank you for staying true to, to, to
Speaker 2: what you believe in. Um, we, we talked about intentionality
Speaker 2: and openness, but in that process, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: new things that can come and
Speaker 2: Uh, new, new is good, but some of the old, uh, deserves,
Speaker 2: deserves to stay there as well.
Speaker 1: What is one of the, one of, one of the old,
Speaker 1: so to speak, that deserves to stay there for
Speaker 1: you.
Speaker 2: So, for example, this thing about what, what matters to
Speaker 2: me is people. I, I, I would hate to see
Speaker 2: myself in the future in in a place where, you know,
Speaker 2: the people don't matter anymore. It's about the, it's about
Speaker 2: systems or it's about.
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know, profits or something like that. I hope,
Speaker 2: I hope I don't come to that stage. So, uh, with,
Speaker 2: with that in mind, wishful thinking, I, I really hope
Speaker 2: I can say to my future self, thank you for
Speaker 2: staying true to, to what you believe in, right?
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with
Speaker 1: us and of course your to yourself as well. If
Speaker 1: you'd like to find out more about Mara mentoring and
Speaker 1: the programs it runs, uh, it's under Mendai Club, right?
Speaker 1: So the website is Mendakiclub.org.sg.
Speaker 1: We've been having the pleasure of speaking with the program
Speaker 1: director of Mara Mentoring, Safafi Salam Buhari Jaon, who's been
Speaker 1: sharing with us his journey and his letter to himself.
Speaker 1: You're listening to CNA 938.