1 00:00:03,599 --> 00:00:05,808 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:08,430 --> 00:00:11,579 Speaker 1: So hey everyone, welcome back to Deep Dive. It's our 3 00:00:11,579 --> 00:00:15,020 Speaker 1: final wrap of the Singapore general elections. Oilly, it was 4 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:18,219 Speaker 1: a long night. It was from day to night recovery mode, 5 00:00:18,709 --> 00:00:19,299 Speaker 1: are you? 6 00:00:19,829 --> 00:00:22,299 Speaker 1: It's that one show that comes around every 5 years, 7 00:00:22,350 --> 00:00:25,590 Speaker 1: is our most watched and our longest, averaging about 8 hours. 8 00:00:25,709 --> 00:00:27,579 Speaker 2: Kind of look at it as a national service as well. 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,370 Speaker 1: I know, but yeah, if you think about what happened 10 00:00:30,370 --> 00:00:32,830 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, some people don't know, but it's really 11 00:00:32,830 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 1: a huge team supporting this entire project 12 00:00:35,319 --> 00:00:35,540 Speaker 2: more than 13 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:39,549 Speaker 2: 800 people actually working on the show alone and obviously 14 00:00:39,549 --> 00:00:42,310 Speaker 2: the lead up to it. So it was a massive production. 15 00:00:42,569 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: So all of you know the results. People's Action Party 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: received this resounding victory. Not only has their vote share 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:55,599 Speaker 2: increased from 61.24% in GE 2020, it's gone up to 65.57%. 18 00:00:55,599 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: Some teams scored extra big, talking about Tanjung Paga PAP 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,950 Speaker 2: team led by Education Minister Chan Jung Sing, hitting 81%. 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 2: That's quite 21 00:01:03,639 --> 00:01:03,790 Speaker 2: amazing. 22 00:01:03,959 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: I know to hit the 80s was pretty crazy. So 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,589 Speaker 1: it was a big night for the PAP and for 24 00:01:08,589 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: opposition supporters, it was a bit of a disappointing night. 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: I think a few surprises. 26 00:01:12,449 --> 00:01:15,910 Speaker 1: Dr. Paul Tambaya from the Singapore Democratic Party and the 27 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: Progress Singapore Party. Well, they scored lower than their last run. Workers' 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,470 Speaker 1: Party also pretty much just maintained status quo, did not 29 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:25,509 Speaker 1: gain any new ground. 30 00:01:26,110 --> 00:01:27,459 Speaker 2: So, I'm here to chat with us a little bit 31 00:01:27,459 --> 00:01:30,110 Speaker 2: more about what all the results mean, we've called back 32 00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:33,870 Speaker 2: two of our analysts for our nomination special, Associate Professor 33 00:01:33,870 --> 00:01:37,349 Speaker 2: Eugene Tan from Singapore Management University. Always a pleasure. And 34 00:01:37,349 --> 00:01:39,029 Speaker 2: we have Dr. Ruben Ng as well from the Lee 35 00:01:39,029 --> 00:01:41,190 Speaker 2: Kuan Yew School of Public Policy. Thank you. Great to 36 00:01:41,190 --> 00:01:41,589 Speaker 2: be here. 37 00:01:43,599 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: Let's start off with the PAP and of course the 38 00:01:45,839 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, Lawrence Wong there would have been very pleased 39 00:01:48,559 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: with the results. The PAP improved their score overall. Masing UT, 40 00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: which is his ward, also did well. No new seats 41 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,269 Speaker 1: ceded to the opposition overall. So what would you say, 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: maybe Ruben, you can start first, are the factors that 43 00:02:02,559 --> 00:02:04,069 Speaker 1: led to such a strong mandate. 44 00:02:04,279 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: The incumbent parties have a lot of tailwind this time 45 00:02:07,629 --> 00:02:11,070 Speaker 2: from the Trump turmoil, Trump tariffs. So obviously that played 46 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:13,750 Speaker 2: a factor, but I'm thinking also in the last elections 47 00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:16,470 Speaker 2: in G2020, we were undergoing a health crisis as well, 48 00:02:16,490 --> 00:02:20,910 Speaker 2: the pandemic. So what changed, right? So two crisis, what changed? 49 00:02:20,990 --> 00:02:24,149 Speaker 2: I think because the last general elections was pretty much 50 00:02:24,149 --> 00:02:24,990 Speaker 2: a digital election. 51 00:02:25,399 --> 00:02:28,929 Speaker 2: This time there was both a fiscal component and digital component. 52 00:02:29,119 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 2: So I think the ground operations, knocking on doors, getting 53 00:02:31,839 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: people to go out to vote for me, that really 54 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,198 Speaker 2: made a difference. face to face. So that's what you 55 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: think gave PAP that strong mandate, that was the difference, 56 00:02:40,559 --> 00:02:42,759 Speaker 2: the main difference. That could be one, I don't think 57 00:02:42,758 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 2: it's everything. Of course, they have been working hard in 58 00:02:44,679 --> 00:02:46,479 Speaker 2: the last few years to sort of blunt a lot 59 00:02:46,479 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 2: of criticisms from the opposition. 60 00:02:48,339 --> 00:02:50,329 Speaker 2: With regard to cost of living and things like that. 61 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,299 Speaker 2: It's quite critical to understand that PAP has 60 years 62 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:56,500 Speaker 2: of experience in terms of ground operations. All the volunteers 63 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,610 Speaker 2: that they've got them and that made a difference and 64 00:02:59,619 --> 00:03:01,369 Speaker 2: and we can see that for Workers' Party as well 65 00:03:01,369 --> 00:03:04,740 Speaker 2: because they retained the seats that they gained in 2020. Eugene, 66 00:03:04,899 --> 00:03:09,258 Speaker 1: your thoughts? Um, one is certainly how the PAP ran 67 00:03:09,258 --> 00:03:10,130 Speaker 1: the campaign. 68 00:03:10,669 --> 00:03:14,070 Speaker 1: I thought it was a very disciplined campaign, they kept 69 00:03:14,070 --> 00:03:17,630 Speaker 1: to their core messages, for example, for PM Wong to 70 00:03:17,630 --> 00:03:20,270 Speaker 1: have the full suite of men and women to take 71 00:03:20,270 --> 00:03:22,779 Speaker 1: Singapore forward. It was a it's a big campaign also 72 00:03:22,779 --> 00:03:24,630 Speaker 1: because the party kept to its script. 73 00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:27,089 Speaker 1: We look at previous elections, you know, my sense was 74 00:03:27,089 --> 00:03:30,809 Speaker 1: that they were always unduly defensive, right, particularly when the 75 00:03:30,809 --> 00:03:34,529 Speaker 1: opposition mounted a collective attack. So you could see that 76 00:03:34,529 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 1: even in the face of much criticisms about the GST hikes, 77 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,289 Speaker 1: about cost of living and all, they were very focused 78 00:03:42,289 --> 00:03:44,809 Speaker 1: on their messages and I think in a related point 79 00:03:44,809 --> 00:03:47,250 Speaker 1: is of course, you know, they kept to a very 80 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:51,919 Speaker 1: Fair, clean, and gentlemanly campaign, right? So no mention, for example, 81 00:03:52,059 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: about Preetam Singh's conviction about the troubles that the Workers' 82 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,130 Speaker 1: Party faced. Uh, so that to me, I think made 83 00:03:59,130 --> 00:04:02,630 Speaker 1: them appealing. I didn't agree with Ruben, there was the 84 00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:05,330 Speaker 1: tailwind of the terrorist war, but I think it was 85 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:08,500 Speaker 1: also the PAP, the new faces. This was really PM 86 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:09,500 Speaker 1: Wong's attempt. 87 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:12,910 Speaker 1: To reach out to younger voters, right, millennials and the 88 00:04:12,910 --> 00:04:16,869 Speaker 1: a different feel to it, right? Usually when you have 89 00:04:16,869 --> 00:04:20,309 Speaker 1: a transition general election, right, from one leadership to another. 90 00:04:20,799 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: Usually you want to keep as many of the old 91 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,119 Speaker 1: team as possible and in a way PM won to 92 00:04:25,119 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: a counterintuitive approach. In a way, the PAP had fought 93 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: about this whole big picture, the world is changing. We 94 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: need more stable government versus the opposition who are saying 95 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: it's about day to day issues. They didn't overplay that 96 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: card as well, right? Uh, because I think they're mindful 97 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: about not being seen to be fear mongering, but I 98 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,349 Speaker 1: think it was really the work as Ruben pointed out, 99 00:04:44,359 --> 00:04:47,559 Speaker 1: done over the last 5 years. So even the GST, right, 100 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, which was really the the focus of of 101 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,519 Speaker 1: the opposition. 102 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,399 Speaker 1: I think in the end, you know, Singaporeans will grudgingly 103 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:56,618 Speaker 1: accept the GST hikes, but I think more importantly, they 104 00:04:56,619 --> 00:05:01,850 Speaker 1: perhaps understood the rationale for the heights. They welcomed the vouchers, credits, 105 00:05:01,859 --> 00:05:05,420 Speaker 1: and rebates that went along with with the GST height. Uh, 106 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:07,540 Speaker 1: and so I think, you know, this attempt to mitigate 107 00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,739 Speaker 1: some of the harshness of unpopular policies, uh, I think 108 00:05:10,738 --> 00:05:14,529 Speaker 1: also did help the PAP to show that unpopular measures 109 00:05:14,529 --> 00:05:15,219 Speaker 1: were needed. 110 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: But the concerns of the people were not forgotten. I 111 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,380 Speaker 2: mean, I agree with Eugene, that it's really also the 112 00:05:21,380 --> 00:05:23,660 Speaker 2: strength of the candidates, right? It's not just the party brand, 113 00:05:23,738 --> 00:05:25,899 Speaker 2: it's also the candidates. If you look at most of 114 00:05:25,899 --> 00:05:29,260 Speaker 2: the candidates that were first time elected in 2020. 115 00:05:29,690 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: Now their vote share, most of them have gone up. 116 00:05:31,859 --> 00:05:33,369 Speaker 2: It means that they have worked hard in the last 117 00:05:33,369 --> 00:05:36,169 Speaker 2: 5 years, and that matter to people. In terms of 118 00:05:36,170 --> 00:05:39,290 Speaker 2: DPM Gun being moved to Punggol GRC. Now DPM Gun 119 00:05:39,290 --> 00:05:41,959 Speaker 2: Kim Yong is a very interesting character, right, because he 120 00:05:44,290 --> 00:05:47,130 Speaker 2: he and he owned his meme, right? He didn't reject 121 00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:48,769 Speaker 2: it or move away from it shy away from it. 122 00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:51,059 Speaker 2: He owned the meme, right, even in his acceptance speech, 123 00:05:51,089 --> 00:05:53,010 Speaker 2: he said, you know, I'm the task force man and 124 00:05:53,010 --> 00:05:55,489 Speaker 2: I'm no longer a stranger to Punggol, right? So he 125 00:05:55,488 --> 00:05:58,010 Speaker 2: owned this meme which endeared him to maybe people of 126 00:05:58,010 --> 00:05:58,970 Speaker 2: the younger generation. 127 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,190 Speaker 2: And he was sturdy enough to also appeal to people 128 00:06:01,190 --> 00:06:03,349 Speaker 2: of the older generation. So he's a rare candidate I 129 00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:06,868 Speaker 2: feel that transcended different generations and that perhaps the anchor 130 00:06:06,869 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: minister effect and the fact that he could transcend different 131 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,029 Speaker 2: generations really a good well for them in Punggol GRC. 132 00:06:12,149 --> 00:06:12,230 Speaker 2: And 133 00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:14,510 Speaker 1: the fact that PAP was able to let go some 134 00:06:14,510 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: of the the previous MPs who have only done a term, 135 00:06:17,109 --> 00:06:19,589 Speaker 1: does that also signal in terms of their being a 136 00:06:19,589 --> 00:06:22,510 Speaker 1: lot more decisive and discerning in how they choose. 137 00:06:22,815 --> 00:06:25,344 Speaker 1: these people. I think it's a lot more demanding. I've 138 00:06:25,345 --> 00:06:28,295 Speaker 1: never seen the rate of change of first term MPs 139 00:06:28,295 --> 00:06:31,255 Speaker 1: being so high. If you're a potential recruit, you know, 140 00:06:31,295 --> 00:06:33,015 Speaker 1: you might be wondering, you know, if, if this is 141 00:06:33,015 --> 00:06:35,575 Speaker 1: all rigor that they're gonna assess us, you know, some 142 00:06:35,575 --> 00:06:37,614 Speaker 1: might say, well, you know, maybe I, I don't really 143 00:06:37,613 --> 00:06:40,094 Speaker 1: want to be in the game. It does signal, you know, 144 00:06:40,174 --> 00:06:43,774 Speaker 1: the sort of increasing demands on members of parliament, right, 145 00:06:44,053 --> 00:06:46,535 Speaker 1: regardless of whether they come from the ruling party or 146 00:06:46,535 --> 00:06:48,894 Speaker 1: the opposition. I mean, we Singaporeans can be a very 147 00:06:48,894 --> 00:06:49,565 Speaker 1: difficult 148 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:51,209 Speaker 1: Yeah, 149 00:06:52,589 --> 00:06:54,510 Speaker 2: let's talk about the opposition now and of course we 150 00:06:54,510 --> 00:06:55,979 Speaker 2: have to start with the WP. 151 00:06:56,529 --> 00:06:59,700 Speaker 2: Some of this view that the WP was somewhat conservative 152 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,049 Speaker 2: this time around with their moves and you know who 153 00:07:02,059 --> 00:07:04,660 Speaker 2: who they were putting in the various wards. How do 154 00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:07,260 Speaker 2: you think they played their cards and what sort of 155 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:09,459 Speaker 2: lessons do you think they would have learned from this 156 00:07:09,459 --> 00:07:13,010 Speaker 2: GE Ruben? I I don't really think it's a conservative 157 00:07:13,010 --> 00:07:15,339 Speaker 2: sort of strategy. I think it's the right strategy for 158 00:07:15,339 --> 00:07:18,540 Speaker 2: the right time because 2025 there are lots of headwinds 159 00:07:18,540 --> 00:07:22,309 Speaker 2: against opposition parties. So when there's turbulence, people tend 160 00:07:22,386 --> 00:07:24,846 Speaker 2: tend to vote for continuity. People tend to vote for 161 00:07:24,846 --> 00:07:27,127 Speaker 2: status quo. And by the way, that also means in 162 00:07:27,127 --> 00:07:31,207 Speaker 2: alternate GRC Sengkang and Hougang, right? The incumbency strength is 163 00:07:31,207 --> 00:07:33,196 Speaker 2: there and they've also worked the ground. So it doesn't 164 00:07:33,196 --> 00:07:35,207 Speaker 2: make sense to change a lot of stuff when there's 165 00:07:35,207 --> 00:07:38,446 Speaker 2: a lot of turmoil and sort of uncertainty. So I 166 00:07:38,446 --> 00:07:40,997 Speaker 2: felt that the strategy was a good one. They retained 167 00:07:41,207 --> 00:07:43,967 Speaker 2: most of the heavyweights in Aljuni GRC. They took up 168 00:07:43,967 --> 00:07:46,527 Speaker 2: Faisal Mana, you know, they refreshed the team. In Sengkang, 169 00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:48,286 Speaker 2: it was largely an intact team. 170 00:07:48,713 --> 00:07:50,634 Speaker 2: Hougang, of course, is the same as well, but the 171 00:07:50,634 --> 00:07:53,473 Speaker 2: interesting thing will be, what about GE 2030? What's going 172 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:56,593 Speaker 2: to happen next? By then, DPMan may probably not stand again. 173 00:07:56,644 --> 00:07:58,954 Speaker 2: Who's going to be the anchor minister? Will that be 174 00:07:58,954 --> 00:08:02,954 Speaker 2: a time where they feel that maybe Pritam Singh, Hing, 175 00:08:03,074 --> 00:08:06,343 Speaker 2: or even James could go there and help the Punggol GRC. 176 00:08:06,593 --> 00:08:08,713 Speaker 1: I think it's slightly different from Ruben, right? I thought 177 00:08:08,713 --> 00:08:13,753 Speaker 1: they were rather complacent, starting off with nomination Day, abandoning 178 00:08:13,753 --> 00:08:14,234 Speaker 1: Marine Parade. 179 00:08:14,351 --> 00:08:18,210 Speaker 1: Bradle Heights, an area where they had ceded the ground 180 00:08:18,210 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: very assiduously, and I know because I come from the GRC, right, 181 00:08:22,691 --> 00:08:25,330 Speaker 1: and for them, for them to scatter, you know, all 182 00:08:25,330 --> 00:08:27,901 Speaker 1: the people have been working on the ground to different constituencies, 183 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:31,260 Speaker 1: right from Tampines to East Coast and to Punggol, I 184 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:35,101 Speaker 1: thought was a technical mistake, right, because if you are 185 00:08:35,101 --> 00:08:39,010 Speaker 1: not in Marine Bradle Heights, you will look at WP's 186 00:08:39,010 --> 00:08:40,250 Speaker 1: conduct as perhaps a bit. 187 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:42,299 Speaker 1: I don't know, I find it a bit high-handed. So 188 00:08:42,299 --> 00:08:43,609 Speaker 1: do you think WP 189 00:08:43,609 --> 00:08:47,340 Speaker 2: sort of brand has taken a hit because of that move? 190 00:08:47,409 --> 00:08:47,569 Speaker 1: I 191 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:49,809 Speaker 1: think so. I think they're complacent, complacent to think that, 192 00:08:49,849 --> 00:08:52,690 Speaker 1: you know, we could just give up a GRC, move 193 00:08:52,690 --> 00:08:55,090 Speaker 1: the people elsewhere, and that people will take it as 194 00:08:55,090 --> 00:08:57,569 Speaker 1: though nothing has happened. When you look at all the 195 00:08:57,570 --> 00:09:00,729 Speaker 1: different teams where they were not the incumbents, you couldn't 196 00:09:00,729 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: really tell which was the 197 00:09:02,453 --> 00:09:06,322 Speaker 1: A team, right, so it wasn't like 2011 Aljuit where 198 00:09:06,322 --> 00:09:08,352 Speaker 1: you could tell that this was really the A team, right? 199 00:09:08,362 --> 00:09:10,903 Speaker 1: So you got Harrit in Punggol and then you you 200 00:09:10,903 --> 00:09:13,762 Speaker 1: had Faisal Manap in Tampines. Jen Jung was of course 201 00:09:13,763 --> 00:09:16,432 Speaker 1: the leader in East Coast. I don't know whether that 202 00:09:16,432 --> 00:09:18,723 Speaker 1: reflects a sense of complacency, you know, that it doesn't 203 00:09:18,723 --> 00:09:23,723 Speaker 1: matter the lineup, the BP branding, people will buy into it. 204 00:09:24,405 --> 00:09:26,556 Speaker 1: I think that the brand would be strong enough to 205 00:09:26,556 --> 00:09:29,155 Speaker 1: carry these. I suspect, right? I suspect that they thought 206 00:09:29,155 --> 00:09:30,875 Speaker 1: that you know the brand was strong, so it doesn't 207 00:09:30,875 --> 00:09:34,786 Speaker 1: matter what configuration you had, they were all interchangeable. 208 00:09:35,116 --> 00:09:36,166 Speaker 2: Hence the complacency, 209 00:09:36,815 --> 00:09:37,005 Speaker 2: right? you 210 00:09:37,005 --> 00:09:39,875 Speaker 1: mentioned, you know, yes, I think they were conservative, for example, 211 00:09:40,106 --> 00:09:43,916 Speaker 1: in keeping the incumbents largely to where they were, but 212 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:46,236 Speaker 1: I wondered whether they had too much. 213 00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:50,150 Speaker 1: Emphasis on the party branding, right, and not recognizing that 214 00:09:50,150 --> 00:09:53,270 Speaker 1: sometimes the groundwork. So they needed some of these, they 215 00:09:53,270 --> 00:09:56,348 Speaker 1: brought some of the stronger candidates, so to speak, together 216 00:09:56,349 --> 00:09:59,190 Speaker 1: into one GRC for instance, it compelling, 217 00:10:00,630 --> 00:10:01,119 Speaker 2: but what 218 00:10:01,119 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: happened 219 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:02,270 Speaker 2: to PSP 220 00:10:02,270 --> 00:10:02,510 Speaker 1: though. 221 00:10:02,669 --> 00:10:05,530 Speaker 2: They brought their A team and then now the question is, 222 00:10:05,549 --> 00:10:08,710 Speaker 2: is PSP even going to survive this? The tier one 223 00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:10,750 Speaker 2: with the WP and then the tier 2 with the. 224 00:10:10,895 --> 00:10:13,794 Speaker 2: SPs and the SDPs, but what we can agree on 225 00:10:13,794 --> 00:10:16,085 Speaker 2: is I think it feels like the voters have rejected 226 00:10:16,085 --> 00:10:19,215 Speaker 2: the really small parties because some of them, right, just, 227 00:10:20,094 --> 00:10:22,484 Speaker 1: yeah, it was a wipe out. Were there too many 228 00:10:22,484 --> 00:10:25,794 Speaker 1: parties for one? Why these parties have chosen to take part? 229 00:10:26,044 --> 00:10:27,914 Speaker 1: Will they come back again? I mean, we 230 00:10:27,914 --> 00:10:27,955 Speaker 2: don't know 231 00:10:31,005 --> 00:10:32,594 Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I don't know. I think I'll tell you 232 00:10:32,604 --> 00:10:34,125 Speaker 2: you're right to say that there's a tiring to the 233 00:10:34,125 --> 00:10:34,983 Speaker 2: different parties. 234 00:10:35,270 --> 00:10:37,299 Speaker 2: Uh, so just look at the election results. I think Workers' 235 00:10:37,299 --> 00:10:39,380 Speaker 2: Party is strongly in tier one. I mean, they managed 236 00:10:39,380 --> 00:10:42,099 Speaker 2: to breach 40% and more. They are tier two parties 237 00:10:42,099 --> 00:10:45,890 Speaker 2: like SDP, PSP who managed to breach maybe 30% or so, 238 00:10:46,099 --> 00:10:48,619 Speaker 2: not not all the time, but sometimes, then the rest 239 00:10:48,619 --> 00:10:50,419 Speaker 2: are just the rest. So I think there needs to 240 00:10:50,419 --> 00:10:53,820 Speaker 2: be some thinking around some consolidation because if you don't consolidate, 241 00:10:53,830 --> 00:10:56,780 Speaker 2: the message is not clear, it's very fragmented. Nothing really sticks. 242 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:59,218 Speaker 2: So it's better to have fewer parties banding together, doing 243 00:10:59,219 --> 00:10:59,500 Speaker 2: more things. 244 00:11:00,025 --> 00:11:03,224 Speaker 2: That more parties doing limited stuff. So common perception is 245 00:11:03,224 --> 00:11:05,994 Speaker 2: that 30% of people would vote for the opposition no 246 00:11:05,994 --> 00:11:09,184 Speaker 2: matter who is fielded. Uh, do you think then this 247 00:11:09,184 --> 00:11:11,434 Speaker 2: election has put that theory to the grave, that the 248 00:11:11,434 --> 00:11:15,554 Speaker 2: smaller parties lost their election deposits and we have People's 249 00:11:15,554 --> 00:11:18,965 Speaker 2: Power Party, for instance, they garnered 0.43% of the vote, 250 00:11:18,974 --> 00:11:22,955 Speaker 2: NSP 0.18%. So they should merge, pack up or call 251 00:11:22,955 --> 00:11:23,914 Speaker 2: it a day and try again. 252 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,590 Speaker 2: I think we need to rethink what a protest vote 253 00:11:26,590 --> 00:11:28,900 Speaker 2: is because the protest vote used to be a vote 254 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:31,228 Speaker 2: for the opposition, but I don't think it is because 255 00:11:31,229 --> 00:11:34,479 Speaker 2: if you look at the numbers, 2020 compared to 2025, 256 00:11:34,570 --> 00:11:37,590 Speaker 2: there was actually a 50% increase in voters who either 257 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:40,150 Speaker 2: did not vote or spoil their vote, a 50% increase, right? 258 00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:42,939 Speaker 2: So I'm really, really worried about that because that's very insidious. 259 00:11:43,070 --> 00:11:45,309 Speaker 2: Is that the new protest vote and the new protest 260 00:11:45,309 --> 00:11:46,789 Speaker 2: vote is not voting or spoiling. 261 00:11:46,869 --> 00:11:50,020 Speaker 2: The vote and the increase from 20, 2020, 2025 is 262 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:53,020 Speaker 2: a 50% jump. So that worries me very much. On 263 00:11:53,020 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: one hand, I think it is important for opposition parties 264 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,419 Speaker 2: maybe to focus on, you know, these potentially disillusioned or 265 00:11:59,419 --> 00:12:03,020 Speaker 2: apathetic voters because it's probably easier to convert them to 266 00:12:03,020 --> 00:12:06,780 Speaker 2: support opposition parties and convert existing PAP supporters. But this 267 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:09,460 Speaker 2: is something that we really need to watch because it chips. 268 00:12:09,539 --> 00:12:12,329 Speaker 2: It's away at Singapore's political exceptionalism, 269 00:12:12,849 --> 00:12:15,130 Speaker 1: you look at small parties, did they really disrupt things? 270 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:17,390 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they became the subject of memes, 271 00:12:17,450 --> 00:12:21,849 Speaker 1: you know, they provided Comedy Central, you know, Central. I mean, 272 00:12:21,859 --> 00:12:24,530 Speaker 1: it's it's, I think the whole era of the election 273 00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:27,090 Speaker 1: will be very different without the smaller parties, but it 274 00:12:27,090 --> 00:12:30,799 Speaker 1: raises questions about whether in a very crowded and fragmented 275 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:32,090 Speaker 1: opposition landscape. 276 00:12:32,530 --> 00:12:36,369 Speaker 1: Whether these small parties serve any real purpose, right? I 277 00:12:36,369 --> 00:12:39,130 Speaker 1: increasingly find them to be irrelevant, even if they were 278 00:12:39,130 --> 00:12:41,450 Speaker 1: not to contest in the next general election, you wouldn't 279 00:12:41,450 --> 00:12:42,369 Speaker 1: feel the loss. So 280 00:12:42,369 --> 00:12:45,059 Speaker 2: back to PSP again, Doctor Tan Cheng, I mean, he's 281 00:12:45,059 --> 00:12:48,049 Speaker 2: not contesting anymore, left with Hazel Phuong my why, they're 282 00:12:48,049 --> 00:12:49,598 Speaker 2: not going to be represented in parliament. 283 00:12:50,159 --> 00:12:53,130 Speaker 2: So what's going to happen to the party? It's tough 284 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:55,169 Speaker 2: to say, as much as Eugene mentioned, there are A 285 00:12:55,169 --> 00:12:56,809 Speaker 2: teams and there are A teams, that that was really 286 00:12:56,809 --> 00:12:59,969 Speaker 2: their A team, right, that was PSB A team. So 287 00:12:59,969 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 2: I think they were pretty hopeful about it. There was 288 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: Tanjin Bok saying, hopefully this is my 289 00:13:05,145 --> 00:13:08,075 Speaker 2: My last election, so give my team a chance. Hazel 290 00:13:08,075 --> 00:13:10,954 Speaker 2: Po and Yong Man Wai national prominence when they serve 291 00:13:10,955 --> 00:13:14,155 Speaker 2: as NCMPs, but even then, you couldn't get them to 292 00:13:14,155 --> 00:13:17,155 Speaker 2: breach even 40%. Elections, there are always two sides, right? 293 00:13:17,275 --> 00:13:20,034 Speaker 2: There's always the opposition party, but there's also the incumbent party. 294 00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:23,580 Speaker 2: So where they were standing, maybe the PAP team did 295 00:13:23,580 --> 00:13:26,460 Speaker 2: really well. Yeah, you know, it was held by Minister 296 00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:29,738 Speaker 2: Desmond Lee, who has been working hard on HDB policies, 297 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,979 Speaker 2: giving different BTO options and and things like that, increasing 298 00:13:32,979 --> 00:13:35,460 Speaker 2: the stock. You have people who work the ground. So 299 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:37,460 Speaker 2: I think on one hand, it may be the weakness 300 00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:39,289 Speaker 2: of the opposition, but it could also be the 301 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: Strength of the PAP party there seems like PAP, you know, 302 00:13:43,130 --> 00:13:45,570 Speaker 2: from compared to the last election, they have also really 303 00:13:45,570 --> 00:13:47,770 Speaker 2: improved in their social media game, right? I mean, they're 304 00:13:47,770 --> 00:13:50,169 Speaker 2: coming on a lot of podcasts, they're just being a 305 00:13:50,169 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: lot more open and personalizing themselves. 306 00:13:52,369 --> 00:13:55,049 Speaker 1: I mean they're realizing that they need to relate to 307 00:13:55,049 --> 00:13:57,369 Speaker 1: also a younger generation who are seeing a lot of 308 00:13:57,369 --> 00:14:00,090 Speaker 1: this online, you know, not through traditional media. 309 00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: So that is a challenge for them. But yeah, I mean, 310 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: West Coast was one of those PSP. The question is 311 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,710 Speaker 1: in terms of renewal, they don't seem to have had 312 00:14:08,039 --> 00:14:09,718 Speaker 1: very much in the works or at least to the 313 00:14:09,719 --> 00:14:11,750 Speaker 1: rest of us. Yeah, so you see that problem across 314 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: the opposition parties, right, whether it's SDP or PSP or 315 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,799 Speaker 1: even new ones that red dotunit RDU. there are candidates 316 00:14:18,799 --> 00:14:22,359 Speaker 1: who were people in their 50s, 60s, um, nothing wrong 317 00:14:22,359 --> 00:14:23,799 Speaker 1: with that, right, you know, because I come from the 318 00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:26,909 Speaker 1: age group, right, but it's a great age group, yeah, 319 00:14:27,039 --> 00:14:27,719 Speaker 1: I can relate. 320 00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:31,130 Speaker 1: Yes, it is, you know, you know, um, but the 321 00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:34,609 Speaker 1: idea that you need a cross section of society in 322 00:14:34,609 --> 00:14:37,489 Speaker 1: your party list of candidates, right, you can't have all 323 00:14:37,489 --> 00:14:41,169 Speaker 1: your candidates coming from a certain demographic. So I think 324 00:14:41,169 --> 00:14:44,570 Speaker 1: that's where, you know, the appeal of the small opposition 325 00:14:44,570 --> 00:14:48,489 Speaker 1: parties is weakening, right? They're not getting new recruits, good 326 00:14:48,489 --> 00:14:52,770 Speaker 1: caliber ones, and when you rely too much on candidates 327 00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:56,989 Speaker 1: who have contested before but have not really made any headway, 328 00:14:57,330 --> 00:14:58,289 Speaker 1: I think it becomes. 329 00:14:58,789 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: That could become like baggage, so to speak, a track 330 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: record and you say, well, you know, I really, you know, 331 00:15:06,169 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: Speaking 332 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,719 Speaker 1: of track record and all that, 333 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,219 Speaker 2: I think quite a bit of a surprise was SDP's Dr. 334 00:15:10,359 --> 00:15:13,130 Speaker 2: Paul Tembao. He has come out to say maybe lack 335 00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: of resources, he's not on TV as much because it's 336 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: not COVID. 337 00:15:16,419 --> 00:15:19,669 Speaker 2: But what do you think really happened there? Do you 338 00:15:19,669 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: think Gigin Wong's gaffe could have impacted the party as 339 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,109 Speaker 2: a whole and the members that make up the party? 340 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,609 Speaker 1: It could, but I also wonder whether, because this is 341 00:15:29,609 --> 00:15:32,239 Speaker 1: the first time that in 10 years they were coming 342 00:15:32,239 --> 00:15:35,969 Speaker 1: back to normal campaigning that a party with the sort 343 00:15:35,969 --> 00:15:38,830 Speaker 1: of resources like the PAP, you know, would be able 344 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: to engage in close quarter campaigning, uh, you know, something 345 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:43,849 Speaker 1: which I think 346 00:15:44,219 --> 00:15:48,179 Speaker 1: Uh, the SDP lacks. I think during COVID, they may 347 00:15:48,179 --> 00:15:51,739 Speaker 1: have benefited because everything was online, but I think when 348 00:15:51,739 --> 00:15:55,570 Speaker 1: you look to see whether the party is on the ground, right, 349 00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:58,700 Speaker 1: during those crucial 9 days or even before that, that's 350 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:02,140 Speaker 1: where SDP has a distinct disadvantage. But, but some would 351 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:05,820 Speaker 1: argue that since Paul had stood in the same area before, 352 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,260 Speaker 1: he had those 5 years to sort of walk the 353 00:16:08,260 --> 00:16:10,770 Speaker 1: ground and, you know, so the question is whether he 354 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:11,859 Speaker 1: had kept up with the intensity. 355 00:16:12,330 --> 00:16:16,219 Speaker 1: Mr. Rogers just did more, right? You know, I mean, 356 00:16:16,299 --> 00:16:19,500 Speaker 1: she's a cancer survivor and I don't know whether, you know, 357 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,979 Speaker 1: he's continuing to want to serve the people, uh, you know, 358 00:16:23,140 --> 00:16:25,260 Speaker 1: actually in a way benefited him. 359 00:16:25,979 --> 00:16:27,820 Speaker 2: I mean, it's important to note that Mr. Liang Yen 360 00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:30,140 Speaker 2: Hua took over in 2020 from Teo Ho Pin, who 361 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:32,900 Speaker 2: served three terms, right, at Pt Panjang SMC. 362 00:16:33,229 --> 00:16:35,570 Speaker 2: And in the last 5 years, he probably worked really 363 00:16:35,570 --> 00:16:38,650 Speaker 2: hard on the ground. He met his constituency members and 364 00:16:38,650 --> 00:16:40,429 Speaker 2: did a lot of work, and I think this was 365 00:16:40,429 --> 00:16:44,789 Speaker 2: evident in the increased vote share. Gigi Wong's gaffe, I 366 00:16:44,789 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: don't think it's a factor because if you think about Dr. 367 00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:50,489 Speaker 2: Chee Soon Juan's vote share, it actually increased. It was 368 00:16:50,489 --> 00:16:53,109 Speaker 2: pretty decent, right? He was the 3rd best loser, and 369 00:16:53,109 --> 00:16:55,070 Speaker 2: it's a new ward for him as well, exactly, and 370 00:16:55,070 --> 00:16:57,409 Speaker 2: he was going up against somebody who had 5 years 371 00:16:57,409 --> 00:17:00,049 Speaker 2: of ground experience, Polian, who, who I'm sure worked really 372 00:17:00,049 --> 00:17:01,969 Speaker 2: hard as well. It's very hard to say. 373 00:17:02,260 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 2: Uh, but I think a person to watch is Dr. Chee, right, 374 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: because in the next general election, if he were to 375 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: stand in spite of not standing in the former SMC, right, 376 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: he did pretty well, which means that next general election, 377 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,430 Speaker 2: if he keeps up at this and improve their ground 378 00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:19,489 Speaker 2: operations on top of the online one, he may well 379 00:17:19,489 --> 00:17:21,550 Speaker 2: enter parliament as an NCMP or MP. 380 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: We 381 00:17:22,199 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 1: also want to talk about the independent candidates because every election, 382 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: there are a few interesting ones. I mean, we almost 383 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,369 Speaker 1: had the most valuable party but turned out to be 384 00:17:29,369 --> 00:17:30,469 Speaker 1: not so valuable. 385 00:17:31,939 --> 00:17:34,050 Speaker 1: But, but, but actually some of them did really well. 386 00:17:34,089 --> 00:17:36,810 Speaker 1: I mean, Jeremy Tan in Mountbatten, we've been calling him 387 00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:41,089 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin guy, you know, but with over 36%. Yeah, 388 00:17:41,290 --> 00:17:44,010 Speaker 1: and again, he's new, a new phase, never heard of before, 389 00:17:44,089 --> 00:17:46,739 Speaker 1: but yet he was able to bring in those numbers. 390 00:17:46,969 --> 00:17:50,619 Speaker 2: Does it give individuals or independents the confidence to like, 391 00:17:50,689 --> 00:17:52,169 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna use my deposit, you know, give it 392 00:17:52,170 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: a go. 393 00:17:52,729 --> 00:17:52,910 Speaker 1: It 394 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:55,819 Speaker 1: does, but I think anyone taking the run as independent, 395 00:17:55,959 --> 00:17:57,948 Speaker 1: you know, must be fairly circumspect. 396 00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:00,968 Speaker 1: Right, because voters at the top of their minds are concerned, 397 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: can this guy establish and run the town council. And, 398 00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:08,780 Speaker 1: and when you look at the independence without taking anything 399 00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:11,899 Speaker 1: away from them, in Mountbatten, you know, Jeremy Tan, you know, 400 00:18:11,939 --> 00:18:15,020 Speaker 1: he was up against the People's Action Party. I wouldn't 401 00:18:15,020 --> 00:18:17,020 Speaker 1: be surprised if voters took the view, you know, that 402 00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:20,099 Speaker 1: rather than spoil their ballots, if they're not keen on 403 00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:21,510 Speaker 1: the PAP, well, you know. 404 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:25,910 Speaker 1: Why not this independent, right? He's probably not going to win, 405 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: but let's cheer the underdog because I know of people 406 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:34,819 Speaker 1: who say, you know, I want this person to in 407 00:18:34,819 --> 00:18:36,669 Speaker 1: a way they feel that they have nothing to lose, right? 408 00:18:36,819 --> 00:18:39,819 Speaker 1: They need the voters, right, because they're really sure that 409 00:18:39,819 --> 00:18:40,939 Speaker 1: the PAP candidate. 410 00:18:41,339 --> 00:18:44,099 Speaker 1: Ms. Goh would make it through, but they were not 411 00:18:44,099 --> 00:18:46,859 Speaker 1: comfortable with casting a ballot, you know, for the PAP 412 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,250 Speaker 1: and they felt that well, instead of wasting the ballot 413 00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:52,179 Speaker 1: by spoiling it or whatever, why not cast it in 414 00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:55,139 Speaker 1: favor for the independent candidate? And I think in the 415 00:18:55,140 --> 00:18:57,300 Speaker 1: same way you could also look at that when it 416 00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,660 Speaker 1: comes to running mass, right, where Darryl Low was up 417 00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:02,810 Speaker 1: against the PAP and PR candidate. 418 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:06,079 Speaker 1: Uh, PR candidate lost his deposit, uh, which I think 419 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: in a way it reflected he was not competitive from 420 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: the get-go, and you're not keen on the PAP then 421 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: you might say, well, you know, maybe, let me just 422 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,599 Speaker 1: try and support this young chap. 423 00:19:15,869 --> 00:19:17,989 Speaker 1: Now, I'm not taking anything away from them because I 424 00:19:17,989 --> 00:19:20,869 Speaker 1: think you know, they did see that there were opportunities 425 00:19:20,869 --> 00:19:22,869 Speaker 1: for them in terms of how to win the votes, 426 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:25,420 Speaker 1: you know, issues that the parties were not tapping on, 427 00:19:25,709 --> 00:19:29,189 Speaker 1: but I don't think that these two cases demonstrate that 428 00:19:29,189 --> 00:19:32,939 Speaker 1: Singaporeans are now completely enamored with independence. 429 00:19:33,199 --> 00:19:35,630 Speaker 1: But I think it also speaks of the Singaporean voter, right? 430 00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:43,099 Speaker 1: We are prepared to give independence a fair hearing, right? 431 00:19:43,109 --> 00:19:43,750 Speaker 1: And it's individuals to really put out there. If these 432 00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:46,229 Speaker 1: young two gentlemen decide to carry on and pursue it 433 00:19:46,229 --> 00:19:47,949 Speaker 1: again 5 years from now, and if they ended up 434 00:19:47,949 --> 00:19:50,948 Speaker 1: joining one of the other stronger opposition parties, then we 435 00:19:50,949 --> 00:19:53,909 Speaker 1: could say it's possible they could be a real contender. Yes, 436 00:19:54,189 --> 00:19:55,909 Speaker 1: because I mean if you think of Jeremy Tan, right, 437 00:19:55,949 --> 00:20:01,060 Speaker 1: you know, 36% vote, so I suppose voters in Mountbatten 438 00:20:01,060 --> 00:20:02,579 Speaker 1: know him or know of him. 439 00:20:02,989 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: We shouldn't be surprised if the parties were to start. 440 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: I think what's remarkable is that as an independent candidate, 441 00:20:08,439 --> 00:20:11,319 Speaker 2: he managed to breach the vote share of tier two 442 00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: parties such as SDP and PSP so it's actually quite remarkable, 443 00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 2: which means Singaporeans are, I guess, willing to look at 444 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: the person, not just the party. I'm particularly impressed with 445 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 2: Jeremy Tan. His rally speech was one of the few 446 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: I heard the second time. 447 00:20:24,229 --> 00:20:26,550 Speaker 2: Because the first time when I heard many sophisticated ideas, 448 00:20:26,599 --> 00:20:28,339 Speaker 2: I couldn't really get a first blush, so I needed 449 00:20:28,339 --> 00:20:31,510 Speaker 2: to listen to it the second time, right? What's quite 450 00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:33,909 Speaker 2: interesting is that he put forward a lot more ideas 451 00:20:33,910 --> 00:20:37,709 Speaker 2: rather than just ideals, right? And even though he came 452 00:20:37,709 --> 00:20:40,109 Speaker 2: from a tough background that came up through some interviews, 453 00:20:40,189 --> 00:20:44,310 Speaker 2: he didn't foreground that. He foregrounded instead his policy proposals, 454 00:20:44,430 --> 00:20:46,669 Speaker 2: and I thought that was actually quite impressive. So I'm 455 00:20:46,670 --> 00:20:50,630 Speaker 2: gonna talk about NCMP because WP they've got 2 more slots. 456 00:20:50,689 --> 00:20:54,500 Speaker 2: And looks like Andre Lau is getting in. So the other, 457 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: or maybe not Eugene, you're giving me a funny look, 458 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,099 Speaker 2: maybe not. 459 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,079 Speaker 1: WP has this practice of not necessarily giving the best 460 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,469 Speaker 1: the best loser the NCMP seat. I mean, it happened 461 00:21:07,469 --> 00:21:10,140 Speaker 1: before with Li Li Lian and give out her places 462 00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:15,109 Speaker 1: for Daniel Goh. The rules are somewhat unclear, right? And 463 00:21:15,109 --> 00:21:16,958 Speaker 1: they can choose whoever they want in that. 464 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,089 Speaker 1: It has happened, so there's a precedent, right, they will 465 00:21:19,089 --> 00:21:20,409 Speaker 1: go to parliament and say, look, you know, it has 466 00:21:20,410 --> 00:21:22,609 Speaker 1: happened before, we are free to choose as long as 467 00:21:22,609 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: they come from 468 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,150 Speaker 2: Tampines. So how are they going to be assessing which 469 00:21:25,150 --> 00:21:26,290 Speaker 2: are the best NCMP 470 00:21:26,290 --> 00:21:26,810 Speaker 2: candidates. 471 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: The main thing about WP is they have options, right, 472 00:21:29,209 --> 00:21:31,930 Speaker 1: including Andre Lau, right, but if you look at Tampines, 473 00:21:31,969 --> 00:21:34,630 Speaker 1: you know, if they want to get the gender balance right, 474 00:21:34,770 --> 00:21:37,169 Speaker 1: Yiling Chong would be a good consideration, right, because they 475 00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:42,530 Speaker 1: only have Silva Lim and Hing as MPs. So that's one, right? 476 00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:43,810 Speaker 1: And of course then the other one, you know. 477 00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:47,389 Speaker 1: Michael Tong, which I think left a strong impression from, 478 00:21:47,569 --> 00:21:50,579 Speaker 1: from the round table, uh, I, I suspect that, you know, 479 00:21:50,670 --> 00:21:53,619 Speaker 1: they might want to capitalize on that, but the WP 480 00:21:53,619 --> 00:21:56,228 Speaker 1: has no shortage of options and they want to use that, 481 00:21:56,459 --> 00:21:58,410 Speaker 1: you know, to profile, you know, their younger and more 482 00:21:58,939 --> 00:22:02,218 Speaker 1: more politics at play, even within the parties themselves. In 483 00:22:02,219 --> 00:22:04,859 Speaker 1: the end, when I look at the election results, I 484 00:22:04,859 --> 00:22:07,659 Speaker 1: would say PM Wong got the mandate that he sought, 485 00:22:07,819 --> 00:22:10,420 Speaker 1: but he will also recognize, you know, that. 486 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,750 Speaker 1: Workers' Party held on fairly comfortably. They gave the PAP 487 00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,698 Speaker 1: a good fight and and that was voters signaling, you know, 488 00:22:17,709 --> 00:22:21,389 Speaker 1: that even as we give PM Wong the mandate, we 489 00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:25,109 Speaker 1: also want to ensure that there is a vibrant, credible 490 00:22:25,109 --> 00:22:28,430 Speaker 1: opposition in parliament, right? So, so I think in the end, 491 00:22:28,589 --> 00:22:30,270 Speaker 1: people thought of it as status quo, right, you know, 492 00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: but I think there are many layers beneath that status 493 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,819 Speaker 1: quo and, and I thought we voters have done exceptionally well. 494 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: And it does feel like we are maturing in terms 495 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: of the way we look at the whole political race. 496 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: I think we only have more exciting times ahead of 497 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,030 Speaker 1: us in future elections. 498 00:22:46,150 --> 00:22:48,079 Speaker 2: And I think if anything, you know, it forces both 499 00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: sides to work really hard for the vote and it's 500 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,869 Speaker 2: all for the betterment of Singapore. 501 00:22:52,189 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: All right, gentlemen, well, thanks so much for coming in, 502 00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: sharing your thoughts with us and folks, if you've been 503 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: listening in, any thoughts, comments you have, you know, we've 504 00:22:58,479 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: been covering the election in a big way and we 505 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: hope that coverage has been good for you and you 506 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: found it meaningful. 507 00:23:04,099 --> 00:23:05,899 Speaker 1: On that note, this has been deep dive. We want 508 00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:06,060 Speaker 1: to 509 00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:08,430 Speaker 2: say a big thank you as well to the team 510 00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:12,939 Speaker 2: behind the pod Tiffany Ag, Junai Johari, Joanne Chan, Saein, 511 00:23:13,079 --> 00:23:16,468 Speaker 2: Kristina Robert, and Allison Jenner. We to you next week. Bye.