1 00:00:00,079 --> 00:00:02,410 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:05,989 --> 00:00:09,209 Speaker 2: Some breaking news out of Myanmar this morning reports are 3 00:00:09,220 --> 00:00:12,100 Speaker 2: coming in that the president and other senior ruling party 4 00:00:12,109 --> 00:00:15,090 Speaker 2: figures have been detained. He says that state Councilor Aung 5 00:00:15,109 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: San Suu Kyi, as well as President Win Min, various 6 00:00:17,930 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: chief ministers have been arrested by the army. 7 00:00:21,809 --> 00:00:25,849 Speaker 1: Silent strikes held across Myanmar on the second anniversary of 8 00:00:25,860 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: a military coup that toppled 9 00:00:28,375 --> 00:00:32,294 Speaker 1: San Suu Kyi enters the third year under military rule. 10 00:00:32,375 --> 00:00:37,115 Speaker 1: 17.6 million people in the country are expected to need 11 00:00:37,125 --> 00:00:42,104 Speaker 1: humanitarian aid. This year, dozens of civilians including women and 12 00:00:42,115 --> 00:00:46,154 Speaker 1: Children have reportedly been killed in an airstrike in central Myanmar. 13 00:00:46,365 --> 00:00:48,685 Speaker 1: It is believed that this is the deadliest attack in 14 00:00:48,694 --> 00:00:50,514 Speaker 1: the history of the country. 15 00:00:52,659 --> 00:00:56,020 Speaker 2: So many headlines, so many stories and so many lives 16 00:00:56,029 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: lost and in disarray as the military coup on the 17 00:00:58,689 --> 00:01:02,569 Speaker 2: first of February 2021 continues to trap Myanmar in a 18 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:04,830 Speaker 2: quagmire of violence and uncertainty. 19 00:01:05,510 --> 00:01:07,620 Speaker 2: The TV version of C N A correspondent has a 20 00:01:07,629 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: special talk show that deep dives into where the crisis 21 00:01:10,970 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 2: is now. So we thought we would put together a 22 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: companion podcast to give you some context to that episode 23 00:01:17,169 --> 00:01:19,809 Speaker 2: and how we've been covering events in Myanmar as well. 24 00:01:19,910 --> 00:01:22,129 Speaker 2: And we couldn't do that without speaking to our Myanmar 25 00:01:22,139 --> 00:01:25,860 Speaker 2: and ASEAN correspondent and the talk shows presenter, Lion Wei Kit. 26 00:01:26,269 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 2: Welcome my kid from reporter to correspondent to talk show host. You, 27 00:01:29,849 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: you're on the move, tell us why it was done 28 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: in this format, right? Steve, it is very, very important 29 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:37,849 Speaker 2: for us to do this format because it allows me 30 00:01:37,860 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: to dive deep because there's only that much we can 31 00:01:40,730 --> 00:01:44,029 Speaker 2: talk about in my Twitter account on live shows in 32 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,379 Speaker 2: my TV and radio packages. So this gives me a 33 00:01:47,389 --> 00:01:49,099 Speaker 2: chance to really go deep into 34 00:01:49,194 --> 00:01:51,504 Speaker 2: the issue. So it's like going to a wholesale market 35 00:01:51,514 --> 00:01:55,235 Speaker 2: and buying lots of fresh ingredients and from those ingredients, 36 00:01:55,245 --> 00:01:57,925 Speaker 2: I cooked up this main talk show that went on 37 00:01:57,934 --> 00:02:00,464 Speaker 2: air already is about 20 minutes, but I've got other 38 00:02:00,474 --> 00:02:03,565 Speaker 2: fresh ingredients. So I made several other dishes, topics that 39 00:02:03,574 --> 00:02:06,264 Speaker 2: couldn't go into the talk show, like your gun laws 40 00:02:06,275 --> 00:02:10,205 Speaker 2: or aid packages to Rakhine State and to this special 41 00:02:10,214 --> 00:02:11,884 Speaker 2: podcast that we're talking about too. 42 00:02:12,119 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: There's so much to talk about when it comes to Myanmar. 43 00:02:14,449 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: So it makes total sense to be able to go 44 00:02:16,649 --> 00:02:19,329 Speaker 2: into it with some experts to flush out sort of 45 00:02:19,339 --> 00:02:22,089 Speaker 2: the nuances of, of things as well. You've been covering 46 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:25,350 Speaker 2: Myanmar extensively from before the coup. But even more so 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,270 Speaker 2: since it's happened, this has been sort of an ongoing 48 00:02:28,279 --> 00:02:31,300 Speaker 2: part of your life for the last few years. Tell 49 00:02:31,309 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: us how you've seen it evolve or how it's progressed 50 00:02:34,008 --> 00:02:34,948 Speaker 2: as your coverage has 51 00:02:35,044 --> 00:02:38,395 Speaker 2: progressed with it. Well, the main difference is right now 52 00:02:38,404 --> 00:02:40,175 Speaker 2: and I'm saying this with a, with a lot of 53 00:02:40,184 --> 00:02:42,633 Speaker 2: survivor guilt if you will because we are both in 54 00:02:42,645 --> 00:02:47,755 Speaker 2: a comfortable studio with air conditioning while my friends, my, my, 55 00:02:47,764 --> 00:02:50,585 Speaker 2: my team and, and, and people I know are out 56 00:02:50,595 --> 00:02:53,945 Speaker 2: there getting the news for us. When I was in Myanmar. 57 00:02:53,955 --> 00:02:56,554 Speaker 2: I spent about half my time meeting people. My range 58 00:02:56,565 --> 00:02:57,895 Speaker 2: of contacts go from 59 00:02:58,119 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 2: the Myanmar military all the way to the N L 60 00:03:00,690 --> 00:03:04,289 Speaker 2: D side and, and experts in many other areas. We 61 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:07,008 Speaker 2: still keep in touch today. But the only difference is 62 00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:09,369 Speaker 2: that not all of them want to be associated with 63 00:03:09,380 --> 00:03:12,250 Speaker 2: me right now. So they will tell me things but 64 00:03:12,258 --> 00:03:14,419 Speaker 2: they will say, hey, let's let's do a call, let's 65 00:03:14,429 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: not have some paper trail or have evidence that can 66 00:03:17,330 --> 00:03:19,648 Speaker 2: link me to, to speaking to journalists. So 67 00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:22,809 Speaker 2: it's a good thing that in my few years in Myanmar, 68 00:03:22,820 --> 00:03:25,580 Speaker 2: I've managed to establish that kind of trust. But getting 69 00:03:25,589 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: new people to talk to me these days can be 70 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:30,609 Speaker 2: very difficult, especially because it's so sensitive. Yeah, and this 71 00:03:30,619 --> 00:03:32,990 Speaker 2: is a very difficult time to be able to get 72 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,479 Speaker 2: information out from Myanmar and just coming back to the 73 00:03:36,490 --> 00:03:39,589 Speaker 2: chat show version of, of CNN correspondent that you did. 74 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: Uh tell us a bit about who you interviewed and 75 00:03:42,729 --> 00:03:44,100 Speaker 2: what they brought to the discussion, 76 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,539 Speaker 2: right? So I reached out to two academics, they're both 77 00:03:47,550 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: senior fellows in different institutions. One is Moussa, the other 78 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: is Aaron Conolly, both of whom are experts in geopolitics, 79 00:03:55,660 --> 00:03:58,619 Speaker 2: asean security. And of course, Myanmar and the good thing 80 00:03:58,630 --> 00:04:00,509 Speaker 2: is we are friends. So in the 81 00:04:00,654 --> 00:04:04,375 Speaker 2: professional setting, we are of course talking and engaging about Myanmar, 82 00:04:04,384 --> 00:04:07,604 Speaker 2: but it also gives us that chemistry. And so when 83 00:04:07,615 --> 00:04:10,505 Speaker 2: we were doing the talk show together, it was Candid 84 00:04:10,514 --> 00:04:13,125 Speaker 2: no hose, but there was a lot of good rapport. 85 00:04:13,134 --> 00:04:15,854 Speaker 2: In fact, the whole recording went on for about an 86 00:04:15,865 --> 00:04:16,885 Speaker 2: hour plus, but 87 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:20,409 Speaker 2: we have to, for clarity and to meet time constraints, 88 00:04:20,420 --> 00:04:22,558 Speaker 2: we could only air 20 minutes of that talk show, 89 00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:24,368 Speaker 2: which is why, like I said, we have got, we've 90 00:04:24,380 --> 00:04:26,980 Speaker 2: got many other dishes from that talk show. Yeah, many 91 00:04:26,988 --> 00:04:30,910 Speaker 2: other things to talk about. Mo actually, Moza, she's from Myanmar. 92 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,989 Speaker 2: She actually joined us for our election night coverage back 93 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,339 Speaker 2: in 2015 in Yangon. I was on set with her 94 00:04:36,619 --> 00:04:39,529 Speaker 2: as the results were coming in. And it's incredible to 95 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: think how, where we are now compared to at that 96 00:04:43,010 --> 00:04:45,850 Speaker 2: time when democracy looked like it was, it was coming 97 00:04:45,859 --> 00:04:48,940 Speaker 2: back to Myanmar. So I know she is very, has 98 00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:51,589 Speaker 2: a very vested interest and is very passionate about what's 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,269 Speaker 2: been going on there. Uh Tell us a bit about 100 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,950 Speaker 2: your network on the ground. You touched on it on 101 00:04:55,959 --> 00:04:59,329 Speaker 2: it briefly, the sources of your information. We're now into 102 00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:03,010 Speaker 2: the third year. How have you gauged sentiment on the ground? 103 00:05:03,149 --> 00:05:05,170 Speaker 2: And how has it changed since the coup? 104 00:05:05,980 --> 00:05:10,409 Speaker 2: I think people in Myanmar are very resilient. And honestly, 105 00:05:10,420 --> 00:05:12,229 Speaker 2: what we see is what we get. There's no running 106 00:05:12,238 --> 00:05:14,929 Speaker 2: away that there's violence, there's no running away because 107 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:20,399 Speaker 2: there's footage of all these ongoing violence, beatings airstrikes. What 108 00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:24,529 Speaker 2: has changed is perhaps the resilience in the Myanmar people 109 00:05:24,549 --> 00:05:26,890 Speaker 2: they have in a way come to terms with it, 110 00:05:26,899 --> 00:05:29,959 Speaker 2: but they still bear that, that pain with them. I'll 111 00:05:29,970 --> 00:05:31,630 Speaker 2: share with you one story. I was just meeting a 112 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,790 Speaker 2: couple of friends in Malaysia. They, they flew to Malaysia, 113 00:05:34,799 --> 00:05:36,579 Speaker 2: they were from Myanmar and they were just having a beer. 114 00:05:36,709 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: And then at night there was a loud pop sound 115 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:42,589 Speaker 2: coming from, from a tire right from the nearby road. 116 00:05:42,820 --> 00:05:44,390 Speaker 2: And then both and they looked at each other and, 117 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:45,950 Speaker 2: and they loved it and they said, oh, for a while, 118 00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:48,250 Speaker 2: we thought we were back in Myanmar and it's only 119 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:50,969 Speaker 2: when they're outside of their country that they realize that 120 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:53,450 Speaker 2: this has become a part of their lives because to them, 121 00:05:53,459 --> 00:05:57,230 Speaker 2: they hear gunshots, they hear bombs so often that they 122 00:05:57,238 --> 00:05:58,368 Speaker 2: don't even realize it. 123 00:05:58,670 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: And I've got another friend whose family moved finally from 124 00:06:02,329 --> 00:06:05,170 Speaker 2: Myanmar to another country to settle down. And she told 125 00:06:05,178 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: me for the first time in years her mom slept 126 00:06:08,049 --> 00:06:11,130 Speaker 2: peacefully at night without having to wake up. So one 127 00:06:11,140 --> 00:06:13,329 Speaker 2: thing that has changed perhaps is 128 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 2: that Myanmar people are now accepting of the situation, even 129 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 2: though they, they continue to resist the Myanmar army. But 130 00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 2: this is one thing you can't take away from the 131 00:06:22,369 --> 00:06:24,859 Speaker 2: Myanmar people that they are very resilient. And it really 132 00:06:24,869 --> 00:06:29,130 Speaker 2: highlights how it's become part of their life, what we 133 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:32,700 Speaker 2: would consider completely, you know, alien to us to understand 134 00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:35,519 Speaker 2: how a popping tire could suddenly bring back the image 135 00:06:35,529 --> 00:06:39,109 Speaker 2: or the, the sound of the memory of perhaps a gunfire. Really, 136 00:06:39,119 --> 00:06:40,899 Speaker 2: it is quite harrowing to learn these things. 137 00:06:41,730 --> 00:06:44,510 Speaker 2: It, it's been three years though. What have you seen 138 00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:47,738 Speaker 2: or what would you say? Um, misconceptions about what's going 139 00:06:47,750 --> 00:06:51,309 Speaker 2: on in Myanmar that casual observers might not realize or 140 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,170 Speaker 2: might not think about. Well, it's, it's a very tough 141 00:06:54,178 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: question that you're asking me, Steve because it's very hard 142 00:06:57,010 --> 00:07:00,190 Speaker 2: to pinpoint on a few things. But I will say 143 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,890 Speaker 2: that a lot of what's happening right now in Myanmar 144 00:07:03,029 --> 00:07:06,209 Speaker 2: has got deep seated linkages to history, 145 00:07:06,529 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: the Myanmar army, for instance, they see themselves as saviors 146 00:07:10,209 --> 00:07:12,700 Speaker 2: of the country, custodians of the country having played a, 147 00:07:12,709 --> 00:07:16,390 Speaker 2: a big part in the independence of Myanmar. And since then, 148 00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:18,790 Speaker 2: they've always had a hand in governance. In fact, up 149 00:07:18,799 --> 00:07:21,059 Speaker 2: until dawn San Suu Kyi's time, which she was trying 150 00:07:21,070 --> 00:07:24,299 Speaker 2: to change the constitution, 25% of the seats of the 151 00:07:24,309 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: parliamentary seats were reserved for the military 152 00:07:27,149 --> 00:07:30,279 Speaker 2: as for the activists and the democracy movement. It is 153 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:33,100 Speaker 2: again a part of history of Myanmar because we've got 154 00:07:33,109 --> 00:07:36,299 Speaker 2: the very famous uprisings from the 1988 protests as well 155 00:07:36,309 --> 00:07:39,369 Speaker 2: as your separate revolution. So to the Myanmar people being 156 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:41,170 Speaker 2: out on the streets to have their voices heard for 157 00:07:41,179 --> 00:07:43,570 Speaker 2: activists to, to go out and risk their lives. It 158 00:07:43,579 --> 00:07:45,399 Speaker 2: is something that is in them 159 00:07:45,929 --> 00:07:49,269 Speaker 2: and to a certain extent people going out to the 160 00:07:49,279 --> 00:07:51,619 Speaker 2: streets as well as going on the ground to fight 161 00:07:51,630 --> 00:07:55,940 Speaker 2: for democracy and sacrificing their lives. This is something that's 162 00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:59,029 Speaker 2: also in the Myanmar people too because Ang San Aung 163 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: San Suu Kyi's father died a national hero, he was assassinated. 164 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,100 Speaker 2: And up to today, Myanmar people still celebrate Martyr's day. 165 00:08:06,109 --> 00:08:07,100 Speaker 2: So in a way, 166 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:10,829 Speaker 2: perhaps we don't realize that people are so loving of 167 00:08:10,839 --> 00:08:12,980 Speaker 2: their country that they're willing to die for it also 168 00:08:12,989 --> 00:08:18,070 Speaker 2: because of this background and culture of martyrdom in Myanmar. 169 00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:20,839 Speaker 2: It's incredible what the people in Myanmar have had to 170 00:08:20,850 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: go through 171 00:08:21,709 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: and what has become almost a way of life for 172 00:08:24,890 --> 00:08:26,399 Speaker 2: them as well. I want to get your thoughts more 173 00:08:26,410 --> 00:08:29,220 Speaker 2: on the military. Uh Coming up next on CNN correspondent 174 00:08:29,230 --> 00:08:31,829 Speaker 2: more behind the scenes from our Myanmar TV special and 175 00:08:31,839 --> 00:08:34,130 Speaker 2: what the future holds for. Myanmar is the military steps 176 00:08:34,140 --> 00:08:37,739 Speaker 2: up fighting that's affected the country's own people who have 177 00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: been doubly impacted by Cyclone Mocker. 178 00:08:46,510 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: There was a time in the middle of last year 179 00:08:48,570 --> 00:08:51,238 Speaker 2: when it seemed that the China we're familiar with was 180 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:54,700 Speaker 2: a completely different place. When the rest of the world 181 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:59,219 Speaker 2: moved on from the COVID-19 pandemic. As many as 300 182 00:08:59,229 --> 00:09:03,619 Speaker 2: million Chinese people were under some form of a mandatory lockdown. 183 00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:10,349 Speaker 2: There were only two things on my mind to find 184 00:09:10,359 --> 00:09:12,459 Speaker 2: food and to not go crazy. 185 00:09:13,619 --> 00:09:17,449 Speaker 2: Then suddenly the people decided to take things into their 186 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:18,549 Speaker 2: own hands 187 00:09:20,510 --> 00:09:24,130 Speaker 2: for the first time in more than 30 years, protests 188 00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 2: swept through China and just like that cove ended, 189 00:09:30,369 --> 00:09:33,210 Speaker 2: join me, we do for a look back at the 190 00:09:33,219 --> 00:09:36,968 Speaker 2: extraordinary year in China and hear how it might have 191 00:09:36,979 --> 00:09:39,500 Speaker 2: changed the country for good. 192 00:09:40,169 --> 00:09:44,468 Speaker 2: Catch a red wall inside China's Zero COVID World A 193 00:09:44,479 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: two part podcast series by C N A. It's available 194 00:09:48,409 --> 00:09:52,159 Speaker 2: now on the C N A and me, listen, apps, Spotify, 195 00:09:52,169 --> 00:09:54,239 Speaker 2: Apple and Google podcasts. 196 00:09:59,799 --> 00:10:02,049 Speaker 2: You're back with me, Steve and I'm Myanmar and Asean 197 00:10:02,059 --> 00:10:04,809 Speaker 2: correspondent Wai. And I just want to play a short 198 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:07,830 Speaker 2: clip from the TV version that Wai was working on. 199 00:10:10,119 --> 00:10:12,848 Speaker 2: More and more. We are seeing reports and anecdotes of 200 00:10:12,859 --> 00:10:17,119 Speaker 2: villages mass burned or beheaded. What do you think Erin 201 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:17,900 Speaker 2: caused this 202 00:10:17,909 --> 00:10:19,989 Speaker 1: shift? So again, I think this speaks to the manpower 203 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,330 Speaker 1: shortage that the military has, that it's not able to 204 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:25,570 Speaker 1: prosecute this conflict in the way that it prosecuted past conflicts. 205 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:29,299 Speaker 1: And so it wants images of those beheadings and those 206 00:10:29,309 --> 00:10:30,789 Speaker 1: arson attacks on villages 207 00:10:31,184 --> 00:10:34,044 Speaker 1: to be spread far and wide, to intimidate the population, 208 00:10:34,054 --> 00:10:37,065 Speaker 1: to make it clear that if you do provide support 209 00:10:37,075 --> 00:10:40,905 Speaker 1: in terms of food or housing or moral support to 210 00:10:40,914 --> 00:10:44,093 Speaker 1: local defense forces or people's defense forces or the more 211 00:10:44,104 --> 00:10:46,664 Speaker 1: broadly that something like this might happen to your village 212 00:10:46,674 --> 00:10:49,065 Speaker 1: or to your family members or your friends. And so 213 00:10:49,234 --> 00:10:51,424 Speaker 1: that's the message that they're trying to send. 214 00:10:53,530 --> 00:10:57,229 Speaker 2: Why there are some gruesome things happening in Myanmar. You 215 00:10:57,239 --> 00:10:59,449 Speaker 2: said it before we can't get away from the fact, 216 00:10:59,630 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: help us understand the military better. What is their endgame 217 00:11:04,010 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: and why do they seem so willing to inflict such 218 00:11:06,890 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: atrocities on their own people? Yeah, I think the end 219 00:11:10,289 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 2: game for the Myanmar arm is to continue to hold 220 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: on to power. 221 00:11:13,179 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: I've been speaking to sources who are close to me 222 00:11:16,750 --> 00:11:19,750 Speaker 2: and they point out that since day one, he's always 223 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,330 Speaker 2: hankered after power. So he's very keen for people to 224 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:27,010 Speaker 2: call him prime Minister, for people to legitimize his, his position. 225 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:29,468 Speaker 2: So the end game for the Myanmar military is to 226 00:11:29,479 --> 00:11:31,250 Speaker 2: hold on to power for as long as they can 227 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,900 Speaker 2: as to why they're so willing to kill people. I mean, 228 00:11:35,909 --> 00:11:38,940 Speaker 2: we've heard earlier from, from my guest, Aaron Conolly that 229 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,890 Speaker 2: they now behead people as a message to their enemies. 230 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,348 Speaker 2: Don't mess with us because this will be a consequence. 231 00:11:45,609 --> 00:11:50,010 Speaker 2: And I've seen so many images of beheaded bodies mutilated 232 00:11:50,020 --> 00:11:55,650 Speaker 2: bodies there, their intestines being put out of their bodies and, and, 233 00:11:55,659 --> 00:12:01,390 Speaker 2: and Children being burned. And these are actually very strong messaging. 234 00:12:01,950 --> 00:12:04,859 Speaker 2: Now, the Myanmar army we have to remember is an 235 00:12:04,869 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: active army. They have been in conflict and have been 236 00:12:07,690 --> 00:12:10,299 Speaker 2: in civil war for the last 70 years even before 237 00:12:10,309 --> 00:12:12,669 Speaker 2: the military coup. So to them, it is not a 238 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,530 Speaker 2: matter of learning to kill, killing the enemies is part 239 00:12:16,539 --> 00:12:20,140 Speaker 2: and parcel of their lives. And perhaps because of this coup, 240 00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: because of the conflicts that has gone out of control, 241 00:12:23,739 --> 00:12:27,510 Speaker 2: they have gone that step from just shooting your enemy 242 00:12:27,650 --> 00:12:31,169 Speaker 2: to mutilating their bodies just to send that message. And 243 00:12:31,179 --> 00:12:34,669 Speaker 2: you mentioned that they see themselves as saviors of the country. 244 00:12:34,719 --> 00:12:37,219 Speaker 2: This is a conflicting image, isn't it? Because at the 245 00:12:37,229 --> 00:12:37,789 Speaker 2: same time, 246 00:12:38,250 --> 00:12:39,869 Speaker 2: you want to hold on to power. You think that 247 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,869 Speaker 2: you're doing the best for your country, but this is 248 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,030 Speaker 2: not what the rest of the world see because what 249 00:12:44,039 --> 00:12:47,780 Speaker 2: we are seeing is that you are abusing your power, 250 00:12:47,789 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 2: you are holding onto power by killing civilians and killing 251 00:12:51,330 --> 00:12:54,159 Speaker 2: your enemies or rather killing your enemies and killing civilians 252 00:12:54,169 --> 00:12:56,738 Speaker 2: in the process. Why it, it's clear that the military 253 00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:58,949 Speaker 2: is in power and that they're carrying out some really 254 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,549 Speaker 2: atrocious acts on a lot of the civilian population, but 255 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,059 Speaker 2: they don't have control over the whole country, do they? 256 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,348 Speaker 2: They don't, I think based on statistics shared by both sides, 257 00:13:09,359 --> 00:13:13,010 Speaker 2: let's start with the opposing national unity government. They claim 258 00:13:13,020 --> 00:13:16,260 Speaker 2: that they have control of nearly half of Myanmar. And 259 00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:19,329 Speaker 2: that's because they're working with ethnic armies and they also 260 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:22,119 Speaker 2: have their own people's defense force on the ground. So 261 00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:24,210 Speaker 2: according to the N U G, they have control of 262 00:13:24,219 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: nearly half of the country. And they have also set 263 00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:30,450 Speaker 2: up their own versions of your criminal court systems, your 264 00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:33,669 Speaker 2: police forces and trying to protect civilians on their side. 265 00:13:33,969 --> 00:13:37,659 Speaker 2: From the Myanmar military side. We know that they, they, 266 00:13:37,669 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 2: they're not in control of all parts of Myanmar because 267 00:13:40,570 --> 00:13:42,820 Speaker 2: I think there was an interview given by one of 268 00:13:42,830 --> 00:13:46,979 Speaker 2: the Myanmar spokesperson where he said that Myanmar will roll 269 00:13:46,989 --> 00:13:52,140 Speaker 2: out general elections when all of Myanmar's 300 over townships 270 00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:55,510 Speaker 2: are stable. They say right now it's only about 60%. 271 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,630 Speaker 2: And so by that admission, the Myanmar army is basically 272 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,729 Speaker 2: saying that we only have control about 60% of the country. 273 00:14:01,739 --> 00:14:02,140 Speaker 2: So 274 00:14:02,260 --> 00:14:05,020 Speaker 2: if you put the mat together, it does kind of 275 00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:07,250 Speaker 2: make sense that the N N G has perhaps control 276 00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:10,089 Speaker 2: of nearly half and the Myanmar army does not. And 277 00:14:10,099 --> 00:14:13,809 Speaker 2: I think it all boils down to the ongoing movement 278 00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:17,210 Speaker 2: of resisting the Myanmar army. The people's defense force are 279 00:14:17,219 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: on the ground. Like I said, trying to attack the 280 00:14:20,289 --> 00:14:24,169 Speaker 2: Myanmar army, they have targeted their army air bases because 281 00:14:24,179 --> 00:14:26,950 Speaker 2: they want to stop airstrikes from happening. They have targeted 282 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,799 Speaker 2: supporters of the Myanmar army. In fact, just recently, there 283 00:14:29,809 --> 00:14:30,450 Speaker 2: was a very 284 00:14:30,549 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: high profile singer who is a prominent supporter of the 285 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:35,580 Speaker 2: Myanmar army. She was gunned down near her home and 286 00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:38,380 Speaker 2: she died later in hospital. So there have been cases 287 00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:42,419 Speaker 2: of supporters being assassinated. And of course, there are cases 288 00:14:42,429 --> 00:14:45,679 Speaker 2: of airstrikes that the Myanmar army has launched to, to 289 00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:48,719 Speaker 2: attack their, their opponents and at the same time killing 290 00:14:48,729 --> 00:14:52,059 Speaker 2: civilians in the process. And as if things weren't hard enough, 291 00:14:52,070 --> 00:14:55,630 Speaker 2: cyclone moa swept through Myanmar as well. Recently, tell us 292 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,780 Speaker 2: more about the challenges that the people of Myanmar are facing. 293 00:14:59,140 --> 00:15:02,250 Speaker 2: I think people need aid immediately. There was a delay 294 00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:05,739 Speaker 2: in sending aid into Myanmar but as we speak, un 295 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:08,789 Speaker 2: aid as well as A N A has already reached Myanmar, 296 00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:12,539 Speaker 2: more are trickling in. But the big question is to 297 00:15:12,549 --> 00:15:14,630 Speaker 2: whom would the aid really go to? Because the Myanmar 298 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,950 Speaker 2: army wants to be in control, they want to be 299 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,219 Speaker 2: the ones to disseminate the aid. But it's going to 300 00:15:19,229 --> 00:15:21,859 Speaker 2: be difficult also because the main area that is hit 301 00:15:21,869 --> 00:15:23,250 Speaker 2: is Rakhine State and 302 00:15:23,830 --> 00:15:27,669 Speaker 2: the powerful American army controls certain parts of, of that state. 303 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:31,070 Speaker 2: So it's going to be difficult for Iraq army for 304 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,099 Speaker 2: instance to get aid if it's sent through the Myanmar 305 00:15:34,109 --> 00:15:36,809 Speaker 2: army and the army are the ones that are opposed 306 00:15:36,820 --> 00:15:39,229 Speaker 2: to the military. Well, they have been in conflict and 307 00:15:39,239 --> 00:15:41,349 Speaker 2: there is an uneasy truce for now. 308 00:15:41,570 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: So the thing is it's going to be tricky because 309 00:15:44,849 --> 00:15:49,219 Speaker 2: if aid does go to Arakan army, then perhaps the 310 00:15:49,229 --> 00:15:51,929 Speaker 2: Myanmar army may see it as, oh they're being legitimized 311 00:15:51,940 --> 00:15:54,330 Speaker 2: and that could be a trigger for even more conflict. 312 00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:57,570 Speaker 2: So here we are trying to send aid to people 313 00:15:57,580 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: who need it. 314 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:00,929 Speaker 2: We also have to consider whether the aid really reaches 315 00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:03,700 Speaker 2: them and also the sensitivities of it, the politics behind it, 316 00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:06,969 Speaker 2: whether or not it will trigger yet another clash between 317 00:16:06,979 --> 00:16:09,489 Speaker 2: the Iraq army and the Myanmar army. Yeah, another flash 318 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: point is, is the last thing that, that Myanmar needs. 319 00:16:11,890 --> 00:16:15,429 Speaker 2: But just really does highlight how complicated the situation is 320 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,590 Speaker 2: in Myanmar with these different factions and with the military 321 00:16:18,599 --> 00:16:21,750 Speaker 2: that doesn't have complete control over, over the country, 322 00:16:21,979 --> 00:16:24,679 Speaker 2: there's been a lot of talk and outrage. But what 323 00:16:24,690 --> 00:16:28,070 Speaker 2: has the international community done in response to this crisis? 324 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,479 Speaker 2: And what role does ASEAN have in neighboring countries? What 325 00:16:31,489 --> 00:16:33,630 Speaker 2: role is it played in, in trying to resolve this 326 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,270 Speaker 2: crisis because, you know, we're two plus years on and 327 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,900 Speaker 2: it doesn't seem to be getting better. It only seems 328 00:16:38,909 --> 00:16:42,599 Speaker 2: to be getting worse. Yeah, it is difficult because if 329 00:16:42,609 --> 00:16:45,380 Speaker 2: your neighbors are quarreling, if they're fighting, if they're taking 330 00:16:45,390 --> 00:16:47,979 Speaker 2: a chopper to hack their spouse in, in the midst 331 00:16:47,989 --> 00:16:48,729 Speaker 2: of their quarrel, 332 00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:51,609 Speaker 2: your neighbors can't get in if they don't open the 333 00:16:51,619 --> 00:16:56,419 Speaker 2: gate and it's difficult to, to interfere because there are 334 00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:59,809 Speaker 2: rules that the international community have to play by. So 335 00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:02,700 Speaker 2: what the international community has done. So far is perhaps 336 00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:05,969 Speaker 2: to be more vocal slap sanctions against Myanmar. But all these, 337 00:17:05,979 --> 00:17:09,229 Speaker 2: to be honest, have very little impact on Myanmar. They 338 00:17:09,239 --> 00:17:12,329 Speaker 2: all throw their weight behind ASEAN being the main block 339 00:17:12,339 --> 00:17:14,420 Speaker 2: to help find a resolution. But 340 00:17:14,810 --> 00:17:18,139 Speaker 2: Asean's hands are tied. Firstly, because there is no formal 341 00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:21,300 Speaker 2: mechanism to resolve disputes. So they cannot force Myanmar to 342 00:17:21,310 --> 00:17:23,599 Speaker 2: the table to say, look, this is a problem, we 343 00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:24,239 Speaker 2: have to solve it. 344 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:28,609 Speaker 2: Moza had quoted a former diplomat saying that we have 345 00:17:28,619 --> 00:17:32,319 Speaker 2: to remember what ASEAN is not ASEAN cannot put boots 346 00:17:32,329 --> 00:17:35,010 Speaker 2: on the ground ASEAN cannot interfere. So these are some 347 00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: of the things that ASEAN is subjected to. They, they 348 00:17:37,530 --> 00:17:39,939 Speaker 2: do their best to roll out the five point consensus. 349 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:43,069 Speaker 2: But if the army doesn't reciprocate, there is little that 350 00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: they can do. 351 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:48,260 Speaker 2: There is also this track 1.5 talks that neighboring countries 352 00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:50,819 Speaker 2: are holding directly with the Myanmar army. So all five 353 00:17:50,829 --> 00:17:54,619 Speaker 2: of Myanmar's neighbors, Bangladesh, India, China, Laos and Thailand as 354 00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:57,969 Speaker 2: well as ASEAN chair, Indonesia, Cambodia and Vietnam are involved 355 00:17:57,979 --> 00:18:00,869 Speaker 2: in those 1.5 talks. The idea of course is to 356 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: complement talks that ASEAN is trying to hold and, and 357 00:18:04,569 --> 00:18:06,589 Speaker 2: efforts that ASEAN is trying to, to roll out. But 358 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,609 Speaker 2: Mousa said that this can only work if the focus remains. 359 00:18:10,619 --> 00:18:11,949 Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to what she said, 360 00:18:14,489 --> 00:18:19,659 Speaker 2: they can be complimentary if they take into consideration what 361 00:18:19,670 --> 00:18:24,149 Speaker 2: ASEAN is trying to do and look at, look at 362 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: that regional interest rather than pursuing very specific, narrow, more 363 00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: domestic oriented types of interest due to whatever proximity the 364 00:18:35,770 --> 00:18:39,300 Speaker 2: countries that are convening these 1.5 meetings have 365 00:18:39,415 --> 00:18:42,974 Speaker 2: with Myanmar. So again, it's important who's at the table, 366 00:18:42,984 --> 00:18:45,765 Speaker 2: who's being engaged the way they are being engaged and 367 00:18:45,775 --> 00:18:48,974 Speaker 2: to what end and also not to send that message 368 00:18:48,984 --> 00:18:52,964 Speaker 2: that there, there's one dominant stakeholder or one soul into 369 00:18:53,415 --> 00:18:54,944 Speaker 2: above all others. 370 00:18:56,930 --> 00:19:00,060 Speaker 2: Why it listening to mo there, it almost sounds like it, 371 00:19:00,069 --> 00:19:02,739 Speaker 2: it gets even more complicated with the more players that 372 00:19:02,750 --> 00:19:05,300 Speaker 2: get involved. And at the same time, they can't be 373 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:08,339 Speaker 2: just one player that's involved in trying to negotiate with Myanmar. 374 00:19:08,449 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: It's hard to see a way forward. It is 375 00:19:11,439 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 2: no matter how many talk shows we host, no matter 376 00:19:13,369 --> 00:19:16,369 Speaker 2: how many people we talk to off record, there is 377 00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:19,949 Speaker 2: no end in sight. Nobody has a clear idea. Of course, 378 00:19:19,959 --> 00:19:22,750 Speaker 2: some would be more vocal. Some such as a former 379 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,869 Speaker 2: diplomat I spoke to said, you know, the only way 380 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,609 Speaker 2: now is for ASEAN to reengage the Myanmar army meaningfully 381 00:19:28,619 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: don't isolate them. And we've seen this call being made 382 00:19:31,810 --> 00:19:34,180 Speaker 2: at the recent ASEAN summit that some A S E 383 00:19:34,189 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: A N member states say that, you know, oh asean's 384 00:19:36,530 --> 00:19:38,150 Speaker 2: purpose of isolating Myanmar has serve 385 00:19:38,229 --> 00:19:40,810 Speaker 2: its purpose. It's time to reengage them. So some will 386 00:19:40,819 --> 00:19:43,689 Speaker 2: have such views. But others would perhaps say let's press 387 00:19:43,699 --> 00:19:46,510 Speaker 2: on because the Myanmar army will need to learn the 388 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,989 Speaker 2: hard way that you cannot bully civilians into holding or 389 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,540 Speaker 2: rather you cannot bully civilians so that you can hold 390 00:19:51,550 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 2: on to power in the TV episode. You ask your 391 00:19:53,969 --> 00:19:56,669 Speaker 2: guests if they thought the Myanmar army would be emboldened 392 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: because ASEAN up until now has not done anything concrete 393 00:19:59,569 --> 00:20:01,839 Speaker 2: to bring it to task or to push Myanmar to 394 00:20:01,849 --> 00:20:04,938 Speaker 2: do some form of, to make some form of progress. 395 00:20:05,369 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 2: It is important for us to be critical and ask 396 00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:11,969 Speaker 2: these questions of ASEAN and the international community then to 397 00:20:11,979 --> 00:20:13,659 Speaker 2: sort of flush out or get to the bottom of 398 00:20:13,670 --> 00:20:15,540 Speaker 2: why things can or can't move. 399 00:20:15,819 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. And these inconvenient questions are sometimes quite 400 00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:22,310 Speaker 2: difficult to ask. Look, it's, it's very obvious that Asean's 401 00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:26,949 Speaker 2: diplomats were attacked in Taji recently and yet all ASEAN 402 00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:30,698 Speaker 2: could do was issue strongly worded statements, no known action 403 00:20:30,709 --> 00:20:33,390 Speaker 2: is taken. So of course, you have to then question 404 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,979 Speaker 2: whether or not the Myanmar Army would be emboldened and 405 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:36,410 Speaker 2: it is 406 00:20:36,479 --> 00:20:38,969 Speaker 2: important for us to ask these questions, not just to ASEAN. 407 00:20:39,069 --> 00:20:41,530 Speaker 2: In fact, in the early days, I've spoken to the 408 00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:44,170 Speaker 2: Myanmar army and asked them, why are you so convinced 409 00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:47,250 Speaker 2: that there is electoral fraud that you must seize power 410 00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:49,319 Speaker 2: and you must launch a coup. And the Myanmar army 411 00:20:49,329 --> 00:20:52,250 Speaker 2: took time to explain to me, show me evidence of 412 00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 2: the electoral fraud back then. Of course, we reported what 413 00:20:55,489 --> 00:20:57,069 Speaker 2: they said and balanced our story. 414 00:20:57,290 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: But at the same time, you can't help but also 415 00:20:59,369 --> 00:21:02,469 Speaker 2: ask the army if you're so concerned about the country, 416 00:21:02,479 --> 00:21:05,688 Speaker 2: why then are you killing civilians and and Children are dying. 417 00:21:05,699 --> 00:21:08,660 Speaker 2: Women are being killed. Now at the same time, you 418 00:21:08,670 --> 00:21:12,500 Speaker 2: also cannot avoid asking the popular and the opposition National 419 00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:15,139 Speaker 2: Unity government. On many occasions, I've asked them, do you 420 00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:18,369 Speaker 2: feel partly responsible for the violence because it takes two 421 00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 2: hands to clap one? 422 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,229 Speaker 2: You have also mentioned that the N U G is 423 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:25,050 Speaker 2: now stepping up offensives against the Myanmar army. They are 424 00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:28,468 Speaker 2: assassinations against their supporters. These difficult questions have to be 425 00:21:28,479 --> 00:21:30,770 Speaker 2: asked because they may give you a magic answer. But 426 00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:34,010 Speaker 2: even if they don't, it forces us to think deep 427 00:21:34,020 --> 00:21:38,180 Speaker 2: and wide and perhaps create more conversations. If you agree, why? 428 00:21:38,189 --> 00:21:40,630 Speaker 2: If you don't agree, why? And perhaps with all these questions, 429 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,409 Speaker 2: it helps people to grasp the, the crisis of Myanmar 430 00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:45,310 Speaker 2: a little bit better. 431 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 2: And with that in mind, then what do you hope 432 00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:51,060 Speaker 2: viewers of the TV version of this podcast will take 433 00:21:51,069 --> 00:21:54,630 Speaker 2: away with them when it comes to this ongoing crisis 434 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,229 Speaker 2: in Myanmar 435 00:21:56,180 --> 00:21:56,949 Speaker 2: empathy? 436 00:21:57,219 --> 00:22:00,449 Speaker 2: Because as a journalist, you and I Steve had to 437 00:22:00,459 --> 00:22:03,780 Speaker 2: be objective in a professional capacity. So I'm hoping that 438 00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:08,290 Speaker 2: viewers can be empathetic because like I said earlier, Myanmar 439 00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:11,109 Speaker 2: people are very resilient and you don't know that they 440 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,599 Speaker 2: actually have said back stories I'll share with you two encounters. 441 00:22:15,609 --> 00:22:17,579 Speaker 2: I think very early into the coup. I was on 442 00:22:17,589 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: the streets and I saw what appears to be a 443 00:22:19,810 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 2: Myanmar Domestic helper because she has this yellow b that 444 00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:24,459 Speaker 2: she was wearing. She was sitting at the bus stop 445 00:22:24,469 --> 00:22:26,410 Speaker 2: and she was looking into her phone and crying. 446 00:22:26,819 --> 00:22:28,129 Speaker 2: And so I walked a bit closer to see what 447 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:30,260 Speaker 2: she was looking at. These were the same videos that 448 00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:34,438 Speaker 2: I've seen videos of Myanmar army soldiers beating protesters and 449 00:22:34,449 --> 00:22:36,390 Speaker 2: she was just crying into her phone. There were no 450 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,500 Speaker 2: words I had for her that I was just overwhelmed 451 00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:40,250 Speaker 2: with this wave of sadness. 452 00:22:40,910 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: And more recently I was talking to and he's on 453 00:22:44,530 --> 00:22:46,718 Speaker 2: our podcast team in April. I saw him at the 454 00:22:46,729 --> 00:22:49,420 Speaker 2: lift lobby and I said, hey, happy, that was just 455 00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: for our listeners is from Myanmar. Yes, that's right. Yeah. 456 00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:56,129 Speaker 2: So I said, hey, happy because that was the Myanmar 457 00:22:56,140 --> 00:22:59,669 Speaker 2: Water Festival Week leading to the Myanmar New Year. But 458 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,630 Speaker 2: at the same time during that period, the Myanmar Army 459 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,030 Speaker 2: had admitted to launching airstrikes in one part of the 460 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 2: country that killed about 100 and 70 people. 461 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,810 Speaker 2: And so immediate response was he smiled and waved and said, yeah, 462 00:23:10,819 --> 00:23:13,489 Speaker 2: it's not so happy. And then it hit me that look, 463 00:23:13,819 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 2: people can go about Myanmar. People can go about on 464 00:23:16,369 --> 00:23:18,609 Speaker 2: their day to day and they can function well because 465 00:23:18,619 --> 00:23:21,650 Speaker 2: they're very resilient. But we tend to forget that they 466 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:24,339 Speaker 2: care a lot about their country. So it would help 467 00:23:24,349 --> 00:23:27,209 Speaker 2: a little bit if we are more empathetic to the 468 00:23:27,219 --> 00:23:29,050 Speaker 2: people around us, surely we will have 469 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,219 Speaker 2: connections with Myanmar. We will know that friend or a 470 00:23:31,229 --> 00:23:34,099 Speaker 2: colleague or have people who've worked with Myanmar before. So 471 00:23:34,109 --> 00:23:37,270 Speaker 2: I'm hoping Steve that our listeners, our viewers can take 472 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,810 Speaker 2: away some empathy from this podcast and at the same time, 473 00:23:40,819 --> 00:23:44,530 Speaker 2: perhaps find ways to understand this crisis a little bit better. 474 00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:47,420 Speaker 2: Thank you. It's been great to have you with me here. 475 00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:50,699 Speaker 2: We're going to leave the conversation for now for this 476 00:23:50,709 --> 00:23:53,448 Speaker 2: ongoing story of Myanmar. But where can our listeners find 477 00:23:53,459 --> 00:23:55,550 Speaker 2: you to keep up with developments out of Myanmar? 478 00:23:55,989 --> 00:23:57,930 Speaker 2: Well, if you guys are on Twitter, you can follow 479 00:23:57,939 --> 00:24:00,099 Speaker 2: me at, at Lion Y K C N A I 480 00:24:00,109 --> 00:24:02,790 Speaker 2: tweet almost every hour of the day as soon as 481 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,380 Speaker 2: I have information. But if you want more in depth pieces, 482 00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: please tune in to C N A where I'll share 483 00:24:07,689 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: with you sources and contact during my life process on 484 00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:14,329 Speaker 2: our programs, right? Do stay tuned for more from across 485 00:24:14,339 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 2: all of C N A platforms and on Twitter as well. 486 00:24:16,689 --> 00:24:20,180 Speaker 2: Thanks Waki. As w explained. There is no easy fix 487 00:24:20,189 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: or even a clear path ahead when it comes to 488 00:24:22,569 --> 00:24:23,699 Speaker 2: the crisis in Myanmar, 489 00:24:24,199 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 2: the military shows no sign of stopping changing course or 490 00:24:27,729 --> 00:24:31,069 Speaker 2: relinquishing its grip on power even if that grip is 491 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:34,349 Speaker 2: only enough to keep a destabilizing status quo and not 492 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,020 Speaker 2: enough to govern effectively while this continues, it is the 493 00:24:38,030 --> 00:24:40,869 Speaker 2: people of Myanmar that will continue to suffer. 494 00:24:41,349 --> 00:24:43,619 Speaker 2: The TV. Version of C N A correspondent airs on 495 00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:46,060 Speaker 2: C N A every Wednesday at 9 30 PM. You 496 00:24:46,069 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: can also catch up with this special talk show on 497 00:24:48,170 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: Myanmar hosted by Wa it. Whenever you like on C 498 00:24:50,689 --> 00:24:53,069 Speaker 2: N A dot Asia do like and subscribe to this 499 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:56,239 Speaker 2: podcast version that takes you behind the scenes with our correspondents. 500 00:24:56,349 --> 00:24:58,859 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Our podcast team is made up 501 00:24:58,869 --> 00:25:02,420 Speaker 2: of Saint Christina Robert Clara Ong and Me Steve.