WEBVTT - 5 things you need to know about decentralised finance | EP 8 0:00:05.550 --> 0:00:08.340 Hello and welcome. I'm chubby Jim Singh from the money 0:00:08.340 --> 0:00:12.930 my team at CNN Decentralized Finance, or DeFi, has seen 0:00:12.930 --> 0:00:15.570 a sudden surge in popularity and is seen as a 0:00:15.570 --> 0:00:19.110 new way of doing finance. But what exactly is DeFi 0:00:19.230 --> 0:00:20.940 and what are the five things you need to know? 0:00:20.970 --> 0:00:24.060 If you are thinking of putting your money into decentralized finance? 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.080 Joining me now is Shane I, head of R&D at Bybit, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.490 a cryptocurrency exchange and Xencor, and the co-founder of Bitcoin Exchange, 0:00:32.490 --> 0:00:37.290 which launched a first public bitcoin machine in Asia early 2014. 0:00:37.530 --> 0:00:40.860 She is currently the CEO of God, which provides easy 0:00:40.860 --> 0:00:44.670 and affordable access to cryptocurrencies. She's also the advisor to 0:00:44.670 --> 0:00:48.720 digital asset and DeFi fund Zen and Shane. Welcome to 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:48.810 the 0:00:48.810 --> 0:00:51.269 show. Thank you. We're happy to be here. 0:00:51.350 --> 0:00:52.890 I shall be glad to be here. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.730 Zen, let's start with you. Help us define what DeFi is. 0:00:56.940 --> 0:01:00.300 The way I understand it is that DeFi uses technology 0:01:00.300 --> 0:01:05.490 to replace centralized institutions such as banks or financial institutions 0:01:05.670 --> 0:01:10.440 to decentralized finance is a long time coming on. What 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.250 are the changes or stuff that we have been paying 0:01:14.430 --> 0:01:18.240 for in centralized finance? For example, we have been paying 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.100 dearly for trust, for access to liquidity or access to 0:01:23.100 --> 0:01:27.899 counterparties and also on execution costs. And all these costs 0:01:28.170 --> 0:01:32.699 are almost eliminated in a decentralized finance world. So it 0:01:32.700 --> 0:01:36.559 is a finance world whereby execution costs and the minimal 0:01:36.569 --> 0:01:38.340 costs are kept with a very minimal. 0:01:38.850 --> 0:01:40.860 I do agree with Dan on this point. It's been 0:01:40.860 --> 0:01:43.589 a long time coming. I'm coming from a trader's point 0:01:43.590 --> 0:01:45.390 of view. So if you think about a lot of 0:01:45.390 --> 0:01:48.630 the investors or traders that go into crypto in 2017, 0:01:48.870 --> 0:01:50.940 if they wanted to get in and out of the 0:01:50.940 --> 0:01:54.960 crypto ecosystem, they had to sell DRC Bitcoin Etherium into 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.500 fiat currency like US dollars or Singapore dollars. However, the 0:01:58.500 --> 0:02:02.100 DeFi ecosystem actually allows for a lot of this capital 0:02:02.370 --> 0:02:05.520 to sort of slosh around within the system, say earning yield, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.179 earning interest. So it's a natural complement to the original 0:02:09.180 --> 0:02:11.370 crypto ecosystem. So that's one of the reasons why I 0:02:11.370 --> 0:02:12.810 see it's popular right now. 0:02:13.020 --> 0:02:16.709 Speaking of popularity, DeFi has grown by leaps and bounds. 0:02:16.990 --> 0:02:21.209 There's over 70 billion US dollars of DeFi assets today, 0:02:21.450 --> 0:02:25.200 compared to just under a billion in 2019. What are 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.570 some of the advantages of using DeFi? 0:02:27.990 --> 0:02:33.000 Some of the returns in centralized finance were eroded away 0:02:33.210 --> 0:02:37.139 by paying for commission or paying for just having SS 0:02:37.530 --> 0:02:41.700 or even sharing profits with another third party. But in 0:02:41.700 --> 0:02:45.480 centralized finance, you are getting more in control and the 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.450 time and the speed of it. Sometimes kids enjoy finance. 0:02:48.450 --> 0:02:52.920 Just getting a cow could take months. And also what 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:57.359 I love about DeFi is transparency, because if you know 0:02:57.389 --> 0:03:00.720 what you are doing or you're aware of all the 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.829 protocols and the platform they're using to me is very transparent. 0:03:05.250 --> 0:03:09.840 Centralized finance for many years is a opaque box to 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.030 a lot of people. You know what kind of products 0:03:12.030 --> 0:03:14.190 you might be putting into, but in terms of how 0:03:14.190 --> 0:03:17.440 your money flow back or how if you're a lender 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.790 on board is a huge box in between which black box? 0:03:21.540 --> 0:03:24.270 I'm going to give two simple examples why there are 0:03:24.270 --> 0:03:27.570 some advantages to using DeFi. So number one, if you 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.580 have been in the crypto ecosystem for a long time, 0:03:29.610 --> 0:03:33.470 investing or you do. Fixed income products are staking in crypto. 0:03:33.530 --> 0:03:36.990 You'll realize that the execution speed, as Zain mentioned how 0:03:36.990 --> 0:03:40.680 efficient the entire process is versus the traditional banking system. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.550 From a second perspective, DeFi allows very quick iteration and 0:03:44.550 --> 0:03:48.960 experimentation or financial products and even stuff that would traditionally 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.930 be under the purview of the institutional sales and trading 0:03:51.930 --> 0:03:54.270 desk at the bank. If you look at overnight swaps 0:03:54.450 --> 0:03:57.450 or fixed income derivatives within a short span of a year, 0:03:57.450 --> 0:04:01.170 you've seen a tremendous development a DeFi space covering all 0:04:01.170 --> 0:04:03.330 sorts of products. I think it's a brand new way 0:04:03.330 --> 0:04:05.130 of looking at things, and definitely it has a lot 0:04:05.130 --> 0:04:05.880 of potential here. 0:04:06.660 --> 0:04:10.320 Shane beside the speed and lower costs. Another advantage of 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.640 DeFi is also the possibility of higher yields. Why is 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:14.910 that 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.240 about the high used in DeFi? One of the huge 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.029 reasons that I see, aside from taking all of the middlemen, 0:04:21.029 --> 0:04:24.239 is that the crypto ecosystem is still growing and a 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.040 lot of people are bullish on the space. A lot 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.039 of capital flows into the space. Often that capital comes 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.730 in the form of U.S. dollars. You get a lot 0:04:31.740 --> 0:04:35.669 more growing demand for dollars within the crypto ecosystem and 0:04:35.970 --> 0:04:38.880 line up supply to meet the demand. With a market 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.510 interest rate sort of clear, that is where we are 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.620 currently seeing you look at the beginning of the year, 0:04:43.620 --> 0:04:45.750 it could be as high as over 10 percent for 0:04:45.750 --> 0:04:49.140 basic lending of stablecoins. And if you look right now 0:04:49.470 --> 0:04:51.779 to the market down a bit and probably people are 0:04:51.990 --> 0:04:54.810 slightly less excited, this is the beginning of the year. 0:04:54.930 --> 0:04:57.120 You're going to see race closer to, say, four percent 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:57.630 per annum. 0:04:58.020 --> 0:05:02.010 DeFi seems to have several advantages compared to centralized finance. 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.940 Let's talk about how investors can. Get in on the action. 0:05:05.060 --> 0:05:06.530 Where are the opportunities? 0:05:07.310 --> 0:05:10.550 One typical way where people have crypto and they do 0:05:10.550 --> 0:05:12.529 not want to sound crypto or they want to have 0:05:12.529 --> 0:05:15.490 a long term view on it. So instead of having 0:05:15.490 --> 0:05:19.969 the cryptocurrency in the coaches ticket and an momentum, I 0:05:19.970 --> 0:05:22.599 can see some common interest. You would lend it out 0:05:22.610 --> 0:05:26.430 and on the other site, somebody is actually in a way, borrowing. 0:05:26.450 --> 0:05:29.060 So there's a borrowing costs. You can see the platform, 0:05:29.060 --> 0:05:31.640 how much its borrowing costs and what is that you 0:05:31.790 --> 0:05:33.920 for you to start your crypto. So there is that 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.100 one basket, which is like interest income and the other 0:05:37.100 --> 0:05:41.330 one is more growth kind of alpha kind of returns 0:05:41.330 --> 0:05:45.110 where you're actually buying into DeFi stock appreciation and you 0:05:45.110 --> 0:05:50.060 actually jump from tokens to tokens, depending on the statistic 0:05:50.060 --> 0:05:52.400 on looking at, or especially right now for the past 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.910 few weeks when there's a price correction, you see you 0:05:56.210 --> 0:06:00.500 jumping up some downs and some price correction as well 0:06:00.710 --> 0:06:03.620 in other tokens and I think is in a way 0:06:03.620 --> 0:06:06.230 is good for the ecosystem. It's almost like a testing 0:06:06.230 --> 0:06:09.870 of what some of the insurance protocols are. You call 0:06:10.220 --> 0:06:13.670 some of what the position taken. Some crypto assets are. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.460 Liquid hates it when the price move, so is in 0:06:16.460 --> 0:06:20.060 a way testing the smart contract that you sign onto. 0:06:20.940 --> 0:06:23.520 The past few weeks, there's been a huge stress test 0:06:23.700 --> 0:06:28.080 to put it in banking terms for crypto ecosystems and 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.680 especially DeFi. If you think about last year in March, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.530 there was a huge fall down the entire crypto sector 0:06:34.529 --> 0:06:37.440 where we saw bitcoin dropping more than 40 percent in 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.260 one day. And during that time, one of the ticketing protocols, 0:06:40.380 --> 0:06:44.219 MakerDAO had his stablecoin Dai pegging from where he was 0:06:44.220 --> 0:06:46.620 supposed to be trading. At that point in time, DeFi 0:06:46.620 --> 0:06:49.650 wasn't that Brazilian, as it is today. The liquidations that 0:06:49.650 --> 0:06:52.950 we saw recently across the entire DeFi ecosystem, the absolute 0:06:52.950 --> 0:06:55.440 dollar amount is just larger than what we saw even 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.960 in history. While many people will liquidate that, that was 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.990 how the DeFi ecosystem was supposed to work, and we 0:07:00.990 --> 0:07:04.830 did not really see any contagion trends playing out. I 0:07:04.830 --> 0:07:07.080 think that speaks very largely to how far the sector 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:07.349 has come. 0:07:07.380 --> 0:07:10.650 Does that mean that there's this close correlation between bitcoin 0:07:10.650 --> 0:07:15.480 price movements or cryptocurrency price movement and asset locked in 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:16.530 the DeFi space? 0:07:16.860 --> 0:07:19.650 When you look at DeFi, for example, you mentioned 70 billion. 0:07:19.650 --> 0:07:21.900 Maybe earlier in the year, it was closer to 100 0:07:21.900 --> 0:07:24.150 billion plus a huge part of that because a lot 0:07:24.150 --> 0:07:26.850 of the collateral that are locked into DeFi protocols are 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.680 denominated in bitcoin or ethereal. 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.620 Just to be clear, you're referring to the total value 0:07:31.620 --> 0:07:33.180 locked in DeFi assets. 0:07:33.350 --> 0:07:35.570 Yeah. So when the dollar price comes down, obviously you 0:07:35.700 --> 0:07:38.280 see some drop in total value locked. But if you 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.739 go beyond that, you can also see whether or not 0:07:40.740 --> 0:07:43.680 there are net outflows in terms of the actual currencies themselves, 0:07:43.890 --> 0:07:46.930 like bitcoin in. To answer your question more directly, just 0:07:46.930 --> 0:07:48.690 to give us an example of where someone wants to 0:07:48.690 --> 0:07:53.420 borrow stablecoins, someone deposits all his bitcoin into, say, a 0:07:53.460 --> 0:07:56.400 compound finance, and he uses debt as collateral, not because 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.640 of the loans in DeFi over collateralized. He has to 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.340 borrow less than what he put in in dollar value terms. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.370 So when the price of bitcoin drops down, then his 0:08:05.370 --> 0:08:08.940 collateralization ratio gets put at risk as well. So hence, 0:08:09.210 --> 0:08:11.400 you can think of it as margin trade in terms 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.910 of the structure. So if the entire DeFi landscape is 0:08:14.910 --> 0:08:18.240 filled with loans like this, then a very quick shot 0:08:18.390 --> 0:08:21.780 down slightly could easily liquidate a lot of loans, simultaneously 0:08:22.380 --> 0:08:26.850 building onto watching it for some of the borrowers in 0:08:26.850 --> 0:08:31.230 a deep space, almost having options in a way on 0:08:31.230 --> 0:08:33.989 their asset. So when you look at the centralized finance, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:39.210 whenever this opportunity, you actually have a bigger impact on 0:08:39.210 --> 0:08:42.900 your asset value. So that's what happened. Same thing is 0:08:43.050 --> 0:08:44.010 in the DeFi space. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:49.800 So to recap, decentralized finance removes banking intermediaries all centralized 0:08:49.830 --> 0:08:54.720 exchanges from the financial system. DeFi is gaining popularity because 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:59.160 it promises lower costs, quicker turnaround and higher yields. And 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.370 there are multiple ways to get exposure to the DeFi space. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.820 For example, you could earn interest on the cryptocurrencies you 0:09:05.820 --> 0:09:09.300 loaned out, all by buying if I stopped. I've been 0:09:09.300 --> 0:09:13.709 speaking with Shane I from cryptocurrency exchange Bybit NZ Quant, 0:09:13.710 --> 0:09:17.370 the co-founder of Bitcoin Exchange and the CEO of Duty. 0:09:17.730 --> 0:09:21.300 Now let's talk about another opportunity for investors in DeFi, 0:09:21.300 --> 0:09:23.969 and that is yield farming. Shane, could you tell us 0:09:23.970 --> 0:09:24.630 what that is 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.569 for yield farming? I think about it. Quite simply, if 0:09:27.570 --> 0:09:29.850 you think about a long time ago in Singapore, when 0:09:29.850 --> 0:09:33.240 we had when Grant coming to market, initially everyone was 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.420 still taking taxis, when Grant wanted to bootstrap their user base, 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.180 so they started giving out things like free. We can 0:09:39.179 --> 0:09:42.179 ride coupons, things like that that got a lot of 0:09:42.179 --> 0:09:44.160 people to start using a platform onto the station that 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.280 we see today. So the DeFi space is similar to 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.350 what we saw back then. Right. They are trying to 0:09:49.350 --> 0:09:53.130 incentivize users shit by, for example, you deposit liquidity into 0:09:53.309 --> 0:09:55.230 any of the protocols they got to give you their 0:09:55.230 --> 0:09:58.950 mint tokens in return. The only difference between this and 0:09:59.010 --> 0:10:01.199 the example that I mentioned just now is that some 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.960 of the tokens that are given out say on the 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.460 more blue chip type of DeFi protocols. This was actually 0:10:08.460 --> 0:10:10.800 probably more sustainable in the long run. It's not the 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.329 same as, you know, you just want to spend a 0:10:12.330 --> 0:10:14.849 coupon it get your baby right, you want to use 0:10:14.850 --> 0:10:17.910 these tokens and accumulate them as a longer term kind 0:10:17.910 --> 0:10:21.059 of investment opportunity. So it really depends on the individual 0:10:21.059 --> 0:10:21.990 protocol themselves. 0:10:22.290 --> 0:10:24.959 I think, in short, is to just maximize the returns 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.079 over the longest period of time because they are some product. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.690 You can get really high returns, but just a short time, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.030 but you know that you're going to be in it 0:10:33.030 --> 0:10:35.370 for the long haul. So over a longer period, time 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.410 wise of maximum return that you could do. 0:10:37.890 --> 0:10:41.220 All right. Well, there are plenty of exciting opportunities in DeFi. 0:10:41.220 --> 0:10:44.040 There are also plenty of risks. Then what are some 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.140 of the risks investors should be aware of? 0:10:46.590 --> 0:10:49.980 DeFi ultimately is built up from a series of smart contract. 0:10:50.580 --> 0:10:53.850 Same risks. We talk about the smart contract risk, the 0:10:53.850 --> 0:10:56.700 failure of what a smart contract is set up to do. 0:10:56.700 --> 0:11:00.060 It didn't do it in platform risk depends on which 0:11:00.059 --> 0:11:02.729 platform that you are building on. And of course, we 0:11:02.730 --> 0:11:06.050 still in a way have built into the smart contracts. 0:11:06.210 --> 0:11:09.540 Some of the counterparty risk and one of the biggest 0:11:09.540 --> 0:11:12.330 risks is the user risk. Not knowing what you are 0:11:12.330 --> 0:11:15.450 doing and not in a way killings on a crypto 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:19.650 that you've just gone recognizing solvent to scan platform off scam. 0:11:19.990 --> 0:11:25.000 And especially where that just accelerated growth of DeFi products 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:25.449 right now. 0:11:25.790 --> 0:11:28.720 Jane, yeah, I agree very strongly with the user risk 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.750 and go the technical smart contract risk is quite well known, 0:11:31.870 --> 0:11:36.490 but basic security procedures, when you handle your own wallets, 0:11:36.790 --> 0:11:38.560 you have to know the difference between, for example, a 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.790 cold wallet and a hot wallet. You have to know 0:11:40.870 --> 0:11:43.630 digital signatures. You have to know how to not expose 0:11:43.630 --> 0:11:46.390 your private key to the rest of the internet. That's 0:11:46.390 --> 0:11:48.640 where the risk report comes in. You have to put 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.890 in more work in order to get these higher returns. 0:11:51.010 --> 0:11:53.979 This is a good exercise in responsibility in handling your 0:11:53.980 --> 0:11:54.580 finances 0:11:54.970 --> 0:11:57.160 just to pick up on scams. Then how do you 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.689 recognize a device game 0:11:58.990 --> 0:12:02.470 for the longest time in a centralized finance, people linked 0:12:02.470 --> 0:12:06.280 higher risk to higher return, vice versa, when somebody had 0:12:06.550 --> 0:12:10.030 such a high yield DeFi. The first thought that a 0:12:10.030 --> 0:12:12.040 lot of people think that is it a scam? And 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.550 then when they start seeing things happening for real, they say, Oh, 0:12:15.550 --> 0:12:19.180 it's not. So they end up being over positive about 0:12:19.179 --> 0:12:22.390 the whole space. Double digit returns is common, so they 0:12:22.390 --> 0:12:25.540 started to participate in some of the platforms or some 0:12:25.540 --> 0:12:29.350 of the products that give that. But ultimately, the whole 0:12:29.350 --> 0:12:32.800 thing is not a real product and not a platform. 0:12:32.860 --> 0:12:35.429 The whole thing is a scam is getting quite sophisticated. 0:12:35.710 --> 0:12:38.050 There are people who are involved in it didn't realize 0:12:38.050 --> 0:12:41.920 it later on, just like how the whole development of 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.689 the whole crypto scene for so many years ago, when 0:12:45.100 --> 0:12:47.950 people started using Bitcoin, Bitcoin wallet, their scam wallet, that 0:12:47.950 --> 0:12:50.710 people download it from Apple Store a few years back. 0:12:51.429 --> 0:12:55.390 So now that DeFi platforms that are probably the beginning 0:12:55.390 --> 0:12:58.750 giving you the returns, but actually it's not real. My 0:12:58.750 --> 0:13:01.959 concern is I know there will be people losing a 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.270 lot of money in the next one or two years 0:13:04.270 --> 0:13:04.600 or so. 0:13:05.650 --> 0:13:07.420 I do agree that a lot of the scams that 0:13:07.420 --> 0:13:10.450 we see these days, aside from the sophisticated ones that 0:13:10.450 --> 0:13:13.370 send mentioned, we are looking at some people who, you know, 0:13:13.390 --> 0:13:16.420 just launch new coins on new projects. They run ads 0:13:16.420 --> 0:13:18.970 online or on social media. You see, like, there's a 0:13:18.970 --> 0:13:20.590 lot of hype going for a new coin and the 0:13:20.590 --> 0:13:23.140 price is going up really fast. What happens shortly after 0:13:23.140 --> 0:13:24.670 day is that it turns out to be a pump 0:13:24.670 --> 0:13:27.030 and dump type of scheme. Right. So think of like 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.559 Wolf of Wall Street kind of business model. I think 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.770 it's quite important that if you look at DeFi protocols themselves, 0:13:32.770 --> 0:13:34.480 probably the first filter you want to go by is 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.790 how much funds have been locked into the protocol and 0:13:36.790 --> 0:13:38.990 how long it's been around as long as this market, 0:13:39.309 --> 0:13:42.370 because of the longer ones, not the bigger, more established 0:13:42.370 --> 0:13:45.610 ones who have proven themselves, have a larger degree of 0:13:45.610 --> 0:13:50.800 decentralization governed by what we call a decentralized autonomous organization, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.189 or DAO. These ones are less susceptible to rock pools 0:13:54.190 --> 0:13:55.240 by the founders. 0:13:55.420 --> 0:13:57.550 And just to define a rug pool, this is when 0:13:57.550 --> 0:13:59.050 someone runs away with your money. 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.229 Yeah, that's right. So a simple example is if someone 0:14:02.230 --> 0:14:05.470 creates a coin and he owns a majority of the tokens, 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.650 so if he owns a huge chunk of the tokens, 0:14:08.650 --> 0:14:10.360 it's very easy for him to dump it on the 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:11.110 entire market. 0:14:11.860 --> 0:14:14.470 Until we have seen that happening two three years ago 0:14:14.470 --> 0:14:18.580 during the ICO boom. So it's not a new scam 0:14:18.910 --> 0:14:23.440 where people raised or sought tokens based on white people, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.820 and they did some management of their tokens for money 0:14:26.820 --> 0:14:30.460 in pump up the price and then so on. And 0:14:30.460 --> 0:14:31.900 does it close of business 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.390 with the risk of a boom and bust like we 0:14:34.390 --> 0:14:39.130 saw with Ikos, where we saw multiple scams and failed projects? 0:14:39.550 --> 0:14:40.960 Is DeFi here to stay? 0:14:41.260 --> 0:14:45.010 Definitely. Whatever happened seven eight years ago when we talk 0:14:45.010 --> 0:14:48.880 about blockchain is going to change finance or how cryptocurrency 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:50.500 is going to be a new way of payments. You know, 0:14:50.500 --> 0:14:52.330 all the talk that we've been talking for almost a 0:14:52.330 --> 0:14:55.960 decade we're seeing right now and the speed of things 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.040 that are changing and being innovated in terms of even 0:14:59.050 --> 0:15:03.400 products platform, how are being reinvested in a space is 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.700 just even for us in the space. We are learning 0:15:06.910 --> 0:15:09.940 and trying to catch up as well. I see as 0:15:10.210 --> 0:15:12.190 maybe two or four years down the road, whatever we're 0:15:12.190 --> 0:15:17.590 seeing now would be very different from later. But ultimately, 0:15:17.830 --> 0:15:22.239 whatever that is happening in the IOC, the tradition of 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.800 finance with the opposite, the trust, the accessibility, the high 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.170 costs of this are being removed in the DeFi space. 0:15:31.180 --> 0:15:35.500 And with that, DeFi is here to stay. What has 0:15:35.500 --> 0:15:38.650 been lagging the past few years is somewhat of technology 0:15:38.860 --> 0:15:41.710 or the use of base is not big enough. But 0:15:41.710 --> 0:15:44.890 now definitely you look at what's happening in just the 0:15:44.890 --> 0:15:48.520 past few months or the first quarter itself. So my 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.110 bet is definitely here to stay and to thrive. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.490 Just got to live with this one liners. So basically, 0:15:54.490 --> 0:15:57.550 assuming all the DeFi protocols from here go to zero 0:15:57.550 --> 0:16:00.130 and nothing comes out from this, the worst that could 0:16:00.130 --> 0:16:04.210 come out is is that the world has witnessed firsthand 0:16:04.210 --> 0:16:06.340 and you cannot unsee the kind of innovations that have 0:16:06.340 --> 0:16:09.790 taken place within the DeFi ecosystem. And there are a 0:16:09.790 --> 0:16:13.150 lot that has been improved on versus the traditional finance system. 0:16:13.390 --> 0:16:14.980 And at the very least, it can serve as a 0:16:14.980 --> 0:16:20.450 very strong, positive inspiration for building a more digitalized. Digital 0:16:20.450 --> 0:16:21.740 infrastructure going forward, 0:16:21.980 --> 0:16:24.560 for those with some skin in DeFi, let's hope they 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.470 are left with more than just inspiration and also see 0:16:27.470 --> 0:16:30.680 some profits. Zain and Zain, thank you very much for 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:31.880 being on the podcast. 0:16:32.060 --> 0:16:32.930 So thank you, everyone. 0:16:33.290 --> 0:16:34.130 Thank you, everyone. 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.090 I've been speaking with Shayna from cryptocurrency exchange Bybit ends 0:16:38.090 --> 0:16:41.960 end quote. The co-founder of Bitcoin Exchange and the CEO 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.690 of Beauty. Thanks for listening and catch us again on 0:16:44.690 --> 0:16:47.510 the next five things you need to know. Podcast by CNN. 0:16:47.570 --> 0:16:48.440 Money My Team.