1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,780 Speaker 1: before we start this episode, we want to give a 2 00:00:01,780 --> 00:00:04,310 Speaker 1: trigger warning to anyone that's listening or we will be 3 00:00:04,309 --> 00:00:08,709 Speaker 1: discussing issues of abortion themes of rape, incest and all 4 00:00:08,710 --> 00:00:11,270 Speaker 1: of that. So if you are comfortable listening, you can 5 00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: carry on. But if you need any support, please feel 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: free to reach out to someone that you trust and 7 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:15,750 Speaker 1: know 8 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: hi hazel and I'm jermaine and welcome back to another 9 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: episode of clarity's podcast. As you can see our Dear 10 00:00:24,130 --> 00:00:27,050 Speaker 1: Zero Go is in the screen. Today's era. Tell us 11 00:00:27,050 --> 00:00:28,620 Speaker 1: what is going on. I am 12 00:00:28,620 --> 00:00:31,460 Speaker 2: not in the country, I'm in Barcelona right now but 13 00:00:31,460 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: I'm committed to my work. So I'm here for your 14 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,150 Speaker 1: Screen. We are holding this recording session at 8:30 AM. 15 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Her time. She woke up for this this girl, I'm 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: surprised she 17 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: is up. She has a makeup on her brows are there. 18 00:00:45,540 --> 00:00:47,610 Speaker 1: We are so proud of you. Today we're bringing our 19 00:00:47,610 --> 00:00:50,710 Speaker 1: listeners and audience of course back to this little studio 20 00:00:50,710 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: where we started harsh podcast from. This was season one. 21 00:00:54,050 --> 00:00:56,389 Speaker 1: It's such a cozy space and we came in today. 22 00:00:56,390 --> 00:00:59,020 Speaker 1: Like how come we're here? Apparently there's a good reason 23 00:00:59,020 --> 00:01:01,550 Speaker 1: for that. We have a special announcement we want to make. 24 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: That's right. A lot of you have been like 25 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: DM us or like clarity telling us how much you 26 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,990 Speaker 1: love harsh podcast. I even had someone tell me she 27 00:01:08,990 --> 00:01:12,529 Speaker 1: listens to five harsh podcast episodes at one goal. She 28 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:14,889 Speaker 1: waits for us to upload again and then she listens 29 00:01:14,890 --> 00:01:18,150 Speaker 1: to five episodes. Another goal like she will binge listen. 30 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:20,340 Speaker 1: It's like a harsh marathon. You know what I mean? 31 00:01:20,350 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: I can't even listen to myself that much, but thank 32 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: you so much. But today we want to announce that 33 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,110 Speaker 1: we're in season four right now, but it's actually going 34 00:01:28,110 --> 00:01:29,060 Speaker 1: to be season 35 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:39,030 Speaker 1: forever. So what does that mean? Okay, so we may 36 00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: be going on occasional breaks, nothing too long. So for example, 37 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,150 Speaker 1: Zura is in Barcelona right now, right? So we're going 38 00:01:45,150 --> 00:01:47,590 Speaker 1: to be taking like say, like a one week break 39 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,830 Speaker 1: after this. But essentially we want harsh podcast to keep 40 00:01:50,830 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: going on because there's so many topics and 41 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,020 Speaker 1: conversations that we can be having every single day, Right? 42 00:01:56,020 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: So we don't want to stop that we want to 43 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,250 Speaker 1: keep interacting with you. Exactly. So as much as possible, 44 00:02:00,250 --> 00:02:03,460 Speaker 1: we will have new episodes coming out every week and 45 00:02:03,460 --> 00:02:06,230 Speaker 1: you know, hopefully we can share more with you about, 46 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:07,970 Speaker 1: you know, the current affairs that are going on. I 47 00:02:07,970 --> 00:02:10,300 Speaker 1: think that brings us to what we're talking about today. 48 00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:12,420 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit serious. It's a bit sensitive, 49 00:02:12,419 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: but 50 00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:15,980 Speaker 1: definitely should be talked about. It's very important. You might 51 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:18,590 Speaker 1: have seen in the news over the last month or so. 52 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: It's been headline news day after day in the US. 53 00:02:22,090 --> 00:02:26,669 Speaker 1: There was a huge, you know, constitutional kind of issue 54 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,490 Speaker 1: where roe v wade this landmark case from 1969 was 55 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: actually overturned and what that means is that a woman's 56 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,210 Speaker 1: right to abortion and the legalization of abortion is about 57 00:02:38,210 --> 00:02:40,070 Speaker 1: to change in the USa okay, can we first share 58 00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: a bit more on how this law actually came about 59 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,090 Speaker 1: in the first place? Okay, so Roe V wade. It 60 00:02:45,090 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: was a landmark case back in 1969 Right? Um, so 61 00:02:48,370 --> 00:02:50,940 Speaker 1: her name is jane, Roe, that's why Roe V wade, 62 00:02:50,940 --> 00:02:54,510 Speaker 1: but her actual name is norma McCorvey, she became pregnant 63 00:02:54,510 --> 00:02:54,850 Speaker 1: with her 64 00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:59,050 Speaker 1: child in texas and at that time abortion was illegal 65 00:02:59,060 --> 00:03:02,290 Speaker 1: unless it's to save the mother's life. Now, jane was 66 00:03:02,290 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: not in any of the situation, right. She wanted to 67 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: get an abortion, but her attorneys filed a lawsuit against 68 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: her local district attorney, Henry wade, that's why wait alleging 69 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: that texas abortion laws were unconstitutional. 70 00:03:15,940 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: Surprisingly, the courts rule in her favor and allowed her 71 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: to actually get an abortion and that kind of set 72 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,310 Speaker 1: a precedence for so many women after. So now this 73 00:03:26,310 --> 00:03:28,750 Speaker 1: law is overturned and what do you think about this? 74 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,540 Speaker 2: I think when I saw in the news, you know, 75 00:03:30,550 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: it's a very touchy topic is very sensitive and I 76 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: felt like, you know, as much as 77 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:37,869 Speaker 2: we want to be pro life, you know, nobody here 78 00:03:37,870 --> 00:03:38,490 Speaker 2: is trying to 79 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,010 Speaker 2: encourage abortion for no reason or anything like that, but 80 00:03:42,010 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: I think that just like social increasing, you know, that 81 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,410 Speaker 2: we talked about this, we want options and we want 82 00:03:48,410 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: to be able to decide for ourselves because I think 83 00:03:50,970 --> 00:03:55,490 Speaker 2: everybody's situation circumstances, it varies, you know, it really varies 84 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:58,860 Speaker 2: and bring a life into the world. It's really not 85 00:03:58,870 --> 00:04:00,060 Speaker 2: as simple as just 86 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,490 Speaker 2: giving birth. I think there's a lot that comes with it. 87 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:05,750 Speaker 2: And you know, when someone makes a decision to, you know, 88 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:08,940 Speaker 2: have an abortion, for example, with a very good reason. 89 00:04:08,950 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: I think that is responsible on their part because if 90 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,910 Speaker 2: you're gonna bring the child to the world and you know, 91 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: you don't have the 92 00:04:15,340 --> 00:04:18,930 Speaker 2: means for it, you're not ready for it. You know, emotionally, mentally, 93 00:04:18,930 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: physically ready for it or you don't have the capacity 94 00:04:21,610 --> 00:04:24,339 Speaker 2: for it. I think in turn, it could actually be 95 00:04:24,339 --> 00:04:26,339 Speaker 2: worse for the chapel like the child is the one 96 00:04:26,339 --> 00:04:27,250 Speaker 2: who's going to suffer. 97 00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely, you know, see where you're coming from. 98 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,670 Speaker 1: And I think when this whole thing came about, right, 99 00:04:31,670 --> 00:04:33,060 Speaker 1: a lot of people were saying, oh, 100 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: this is, you know, such a step back for human 101 00:04:35,570 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: rights and women's rights as well. And I came across 102 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,220 Speaker 1: this tweet that says when the penalty for aborting after 103 00:04:43,220 --> 00:04:43,460 Speaker 1: rape 104 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,060 Speaker 1: is more severe than the penalty for rape, 105 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: that's when, you know, it's a war on women. But 106 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,309 Speaker 1: I think it's important to also, you know, set the 107 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,460 Speaker 1: set the stage, right? What is illegal? What is not 108 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:58,099 Speaker 1: what's considered an abortion. So here is how certain states, 109 00:04:58,100 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: such as texas right, define abortion. So what doesn't constitute 110 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:03,659 Speaker 1: an abortion? 111 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,770 Speaker 1: Number one saving the life of preserving the health of 112 00:05:06,770 --> 00:05:07,650 Speaker 1: an unborn child. 113 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:11,609 Speaker 1: Okay, that's number one. Number two, removing a dead unborn 114 00:05:11,610 --> 00:05:14,860 Speaker 1: child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion 115 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,510 Speaker 1: or number three removing an ectopic pregnancy? Ectopic pregnancy is 116 00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:22,620 Speaker 1: a pregnancy outside of the uterus where it gets stuck 117 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:24,470 Speaker 1: in the fallopian tube and it's not going to be 118 00:05:24,470 --> 00:05:26,739 Speaker 1: able to come to full term. So these are not 119 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:29,070 Speaker 1: considered abortions and you can still get them in states 120 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:33,190 Speaker 1: like texas and abortion is where, for example, in cases 121 00:05:33,190 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: of rape, where the 122 00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:36,530 Speaker 1: the child, there's nothing wrong with the child, right? But 123 00:05:36,529 --> 00:05:39,789 Speaker 1: you just want to get an abortion. And we mentioned 124 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:42,660 Speaker 1: that this loss, they are constitutional, right, which means it 125 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:45,650 Speaker 1: depends on how the states want to deal with this ruling. 126 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:48,250 Speaker 1: Am I right? So it's made illegal in some 127 00:05:48,740 --> 00:05:52,900 Speaker 1: and it still can be processed or like proceeded within others. 128 00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:55,690 Speaker 1: Am I Right? So for example, let's say I live 129 00:05:55,690 --> 00:05:59,170 Speaker 1: in California, I can still get abortions legally, but if 130 00:05:59,170 --> 00:06:01,909 Speaker 1: I live in a more conservative state like texas or 131 00:06:01,910 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: south Dakota, that's where it's been made illegal. Okay, So 132 00:06:05,089 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: if a woman in texas wants to get an abortion, 133 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: can she travel somewhere else to get it done? 134 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: Yes, she can actually, I've actually also read about some 135 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,130 Speaker 1: companies like Apple, for example, paying for their employees to 136 00:06:16,130 --> 00:06:17,820 Speaker 1: go out of state to travel out of state to 137 00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:18,650 Speaker 1: get abortions. 138 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:22,700 Speaker 1: So there are steps being taken by corporations as well 139 00:06:22,710 --> 00:06:26,770 Speaker 1: to protect their employees, right? But I feel like having 140 00:06:26,779 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: overturned this law, it actually makes a huge impact women's life, 141 00:06:31,610 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: like I mentioned just now, we talked about it freezing. 142 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,930 Speaker 1: We talked about options and now I feel like we 143 00:06:35,930 --> 00:06:38,430 Speaker 1: are taking one step back from what we have built 144 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:41,750 Speaker 1: up since 1969, as you mentioned just now. What do 145 00:06:41,750 --> 00:06:43,450 Speaker 1: you think are some of the possible implications? 146 00:06:43,940 --> 00:06:46,050 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think it's not just a now problem, 147 00:06:46,050 --> 00:06:47,570 Speaker 2: you know, it's not like, oh, do I want an 148 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:49,570 Speaker 2: abortion now? Do I not want an abortion now? And 149 00:06:49,570 --> 00:06:52,700 Speaker 2: then the problem goes away? I think it's a societal issue. 150 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:55,700 Speaker 2: It's a long term issue where, you know, if for example, 151 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:58,710 Speaker 2: in states where it's going to be made illegal and 152 00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:01,349 Speaker 2: you have, you know, an uprise of these kids were 153 00:07:01,350 --> 00:07:04,469 Speaker 2: not taken care of, for example, you know, in future, 154 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,650 Speaker 2: they may contribute to societal 155 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: problems or issues and it's like a never ending, it 156 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,890 Speaker 2: becomes a vicious cycle and it's not their fault that 157 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: the thing you see. 158 00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:17,900 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I think by banning abortions, it doesn't actually 159 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:20,790 Speaker 1: mean that people won't get them anymore. Not everyone can 160 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:23,220 Speaker 1: afford to travel out of state to get an abortion. 161 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: What that means is you're making abortions very unsafe, people 162 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: are going to try and get them done illegally and 163 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people might lose their lives over procedures 164 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,470 Speaker 1: like that, right? So on the other hand, let's take 165 00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:36,210 Speaker 1: a step back and and try to understand why this 166 00:07:36,210 --> 00:07:38,850 Speaker 1: rule is overturned. So I understand that, you know, maybe 167 00:07:38,860 --> 00:07:41,060 Speaker 1: the the US government um 168 00:07:41,540 --> 00:07:45,150 Speaker 1: they think that abortion is equivalent to crime is equivalent 169 00:07:45,150 --> 00:07:49,130 Speaker 1: to murdering murdering an unborn baby. So that is why 170 00:07:49,130 --> 00:07:52,260 Speaker 1: they want people to be responsible for their own actions. 171 00:07:52,270 --> 00:07:55,270 Speaker 1: I get that. But what about accidents that we mentioned 172 00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: just now? Um if you are in a happy relationship 173 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,070 Speaker 1: for example, and you you got pregnant by accident, but 174 00:08:02,070 --> 00:08:03,260 Speaker 1: you don't think you're ready 175 00:08:03,540 --> 00:08:07,290 Speaker 1: to have this baby, you no longer have that option 176 00:08:07,290 --> 00:08:09,060 Speaker 1: of letting it go and rape. 177 00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: I can't stress about this enough. Like what if it's 178 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: not even up to you? Well, if we want to understand, 179 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,210 Speaker 1: you know, the pro lifers, right? I can read you 180 00:08:18,220 --> 00:08:20,550 Speaker 1: this is a pro lifer. This is what she said. 181 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm against the legal option to destroy someone's body and 182 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,380 Speaker 1: violently end their life. So basically abortion. I'm against abortion. 183 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:29,860 Speaker 1: If you are in support of that, you are the 184 00:08:29,860 --> 00:08:33,780 Speaker 1: one that wants to control other people's bodies, Not me. Okay. Okay. Okay. 185 00:08:33,790 --> 00:08:35,550 Speaker 1: I don't know just very quickly 186 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: which side do you think you girls are on zura 187 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:40,950 Speaker 1: pro life or pro choice? It's 188 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:42,660 Speaker 2: a tough question. And I think it's a little bit 189 00:08:42,660 --> 00:08:46,010 Speaker 2: hard as well to choose an answer because as we said, 190 00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:47,830 Speaker 2: you know, from the very beginning when we set stage 191 00:08:47,830 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: that it's very case by case basis. I understand it 192 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,510 Speaker 2: was the next step as well, you know, where they're 193 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 2: coming from because legalizing it, for example, it may 194 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,310 Speaker 2: give the idea or it may raise people with sort 195 00:09:02,309 --> 00:09:05,100 Speaker 2: of the understanding that I can always take that out. 196 00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: Let's say, okay, where it's not an urgent situation or 197 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,580 Speaker 2: an important situation. It feels like they can get it 198 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: done whenever they want to just because they don't want 199 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,900 Speaker 2: a kid and maybe that's not what they want. You know, 200 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:17,100 Speaker 2: that's what they're trying to avoid because at the end 201 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:17,949 Speaker 2: of the day 202 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,429 Speaker 2: passing a law, if someone wants to get an abortion, 203 00:09:20,429 --> 00:09:22,890 Speaker 2: let's say it's legal now, you know, there's no such 204 00:09:22,890 --> 00:09:24,910 Speaker 2: thing as to why you're getting it. So for this 205 00:09:24,910 --> 00:09:26,730 Speaker 2: reason you can, for this reason you cannot okay, you 206 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:30,260 Speaker 2: reconsider or anything like that, you know? But I feel like, 207 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:32,110 Speaker 2: you know, like what we said earlier when it comes 208 00:09:32,110 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 2: to rape, for example, you can't expect them to raise 209 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,350 Speaker 2: that child when they're not ready when they're too young 210 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: or if that child 211 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: reminds them or it's traumatic for them for the rest 212 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,590 Speaker 2: of their life. How is that going to affect the 213 00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: mother and the child at the same time? You know 214 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: what I mean? The child might grow up completely unloved 215 00:09:47,410 --> 00:09:50,540 Speaker 2: or you know, might receive abusive treatment from the mother 216 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:53,740 Speaker 2: just because she was offering that trauma and I think 217 00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:56,020 Speaker 2: it's it's very difficult when it comes to things like that, 218 00:09:56,020 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: but also because you mentioned earlier, you know what, if 219 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,490 Speaker 2: a couple is not ready and I remember hearing a 220 00:10:00,490 --> 00:10:03,170 Speaker 2: story from a friend, right? He actually said to me like, 221 00:10:03,170 --> 00:10:05,620 Speaker 2: you know their marriage is not good. He felt like 222 00:10:05,630 --> 00:10:08,179 Speaker 2: it was never supposed to happen and actually he was 223 00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:10,930 Speaker 2: about to file for a divorce and then she got pregnant. 224 00:10:10,929 --> 00:10:14,130 Speaker 2: So because of that statement that marriage and I mean 225 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:16,650 Speaker 2: that it was now that eventually, but you see, 226 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,610 Speaker 1: Let me throw a spanner in the works, right? Um 227 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:23,220 Speaker 1: Okay for me, I'm 100% pro choice and I can 228 00:10:23,220 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: say that here. Um but coming from a pro life perspective, 229 00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:28,260 Speaker 1: what they feel is that 230 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,770 Speaker 1: if you have an unwanted pregnancy instead of aborting it, 231 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:34,050 Speaker 1: you should just give birth to it and leave it 232 00:10:34,050 --> 00:10:36,820 Speaker 1: up for adoption. But how can you guarantee that that 233 00:10:36,820 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: kid is going to have love all the kind of 234 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: emotional attention, financial attention that he or she needs? I 235 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,510 Speaker 1: am not up for that. I think we're talking about 236 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: the american child welfare system 237 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,850 Speaker 1: in America on any given day. Like even right now 238 00:10:50,940 --> 00:10:54,060 Speaker 1: there's at least half a million Children in the foster 239 00:10:54,059 --> 00:10:57,849 Speaker 1: care system because the adoption process is so difficult. Um 240 00:10:57,850 --> 00:11:00,339 Speaker 1: and it's so complicated, A lot of Children end up 241 00:11:00,350 --> 00:11:02,860 Speaker 1: in foster homes where they're not properly loved, they get 242 00:11:02,860 --> 00:11:04,970 Speaker 1: shoved around from one home to another and they don't 243 00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: have that kind of welfare 244 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,660 Speaker 1: growing up And that's also another consideration, like you leave 245 00:11:10,660 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: it up for adoption, 246 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: but 247 00:11:12,340 --> 00:11:13,870 Speaker 1: what's going to happen to that child? 248 00:11:13,929 --> 00:11:16,260 Speaker 2: Um And that's the thing like what we mentioned earlier 249 00:11:16,260 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: just now right that you know, making it illegal or 250 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,620 Speaker 2: you know making a decision like that it's going to 251 00:11:22,620 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: cause more societal problems actually. 252 00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:27,610 Speaker 1: And I've been to a foster home in Korea. I 253 00:11:27,610 --> 00:11:30,949 Speaker 1: can't say that the kids that are unhappy, but definitely 254 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,059 Speaker 1: I do feel that they can be getting more attention. 255 00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:35,729 Speaker 1: Can you imagine this situation? There are 20 kids and 256 00:11:35,740 --> 00:11:39,189 Speaker 1: only two adults to look after 20 kids. So I 257 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:41,900 Speaker 1: feel like if you feel is responsible to just give 258 00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:43,420 Speaker 1: birth to the kids and just leave it up to 259 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:44,450 Speaker 1: the adoption homes. 260 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: That is not being very responsible at the end of 261 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: the day. So I would say that my option, I 262 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,130 Speaker 1: will lean to its pro choice as well if you 263 00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:55,179 Speaker 1: want to give birth to this child, you make sure 264 00:11:55,179 --> 00:11:57,870 Speaker 1: you commit and you take care of him or her. 265 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,829 Speaker 1: And this is a huge commitment right? Because pregnancy is 266 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: 10 months. But the commitment is a lifetime. It's incredible 267 00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: that 268 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,260 Speaker 1: that kind of emotional stress, 269 00:12:06,540 --> 00:12:10,860 Speaker 1: the kind of financial pressure that you have to commit to. 270 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: It's huge. Let's bring it back home, right? Let's talk 271 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,900 Speaker 1: about the stigma that surrounds prenatal marriage as well as 272 00:12:18,910 --> 00:12:22,850 Speaker 1: abortion in Singapore? Right? Why do you think some women 273 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:26,059 Speaker 1: might choose to terminate their pregnancies? Oh, I've had a 274 00:12:26,059 --> 00:12:30,030 Speaker 1: friend um just because she had too many kids, she 275 00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:31,150 Speaker 1: only wanted to have three. 276 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,570 Speaker 1: So for Singapore, I think actually three kids is also, 277 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, 278 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,100 Speaker 1: more than average ready. But she was very blessed with 279 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:40,390 Speaker 1: 1/4 kid. But after discussing this with her husband, they 280 00:12:40,390 --> 00:12:43,069 Speaker 1: felt like, you know, financially the cost of living in 281 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: Singapore is also so high. They don't think that they 282 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: are able to give all four kids a good quality 283 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: of life if they choose to go ahead with it. 284 00:12:49,610 --> 00:12:52,060 Speaker 1: So they decided that, you know, okay, maybe 285 00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:54,490 Speaker 1: let's not go ahead with the fourth kids so that 286 00:12:54,490 --> 00:12:56,359 Speaker 1: we can give our remaining three kids 287 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,110 Speaker 1: a better life. Yeah, I understand. What do you think? 288 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,990 Speaker 1: Why would some women choose to terminate their pregnancies? 289 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,209 Speaker 2: I think for a multitude of reasons, right? But that's 290 00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:08,429 Speaker 2: the thing. You see when you make a choice like 291 00:13:08,429 --> 00:13:10,689 Speaker 2: that or when you're deciding on something like that, you 292 00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:13,370 Speaker 2: definitely have your reasons like his old friend for example, 293 00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:16,420 Speaker 2: and I think that's already being responsible. You know, I 294 00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:18,470 Speaker 2: think in Singapore as well, especially when we have like 295 00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: different religions 296 00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 2: and different religions have different stands in this, you know, they, 297 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,540 Speaker 2: but I think in general, everybody believes that, you know, 298 00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:27,910 Speaker 2: a child is a blessing. It's a good thing that 299 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,589 Speaker 2: it will bring you more joy than pain for example. Right? 300 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,910 Speaker 2: But I think we also need to be responsible in 301 00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 2: the sense that 302 00:13:35,340 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: Can you care for this child for the next not 303 00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: just 18 years of their life, but for the rest 304 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,620 Speaker 2: of their life, there are people who make decisions to 305 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:46,170 Speaker 2: a board, for example, because they find out early in 306 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:50,670 Speaker 2: the pregnancy that let's say the child is, you know, 307 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,740 Speaker 2: maybe not fully formed or the child is gonna have 308 00:13:53,740 --> 00:13:56,340 Speaker 2: some health problems. You know, I don't think it's cruel 309 00:13:56,350 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: because I think 310 00:13:57,740 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, are they strong enough 311 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,189 Speaker 2: to be able to raise that child and to go 312 00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 2: through that life? You know, I think people have a 313 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 2: lot of opinion on this, but at the end of 314 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 2: the day isn't the parents the one who is going 315 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: to have to do it for the rest of their lives. 316 00:14:11,370 --> 00:14:14,100 Speaker 1: And and some people may say, oh, that's a selfish reason, 317 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,660 Speaker 1: you know, to want to abort for your own reasons. 318 00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:19,550 Speaker 1: But but it is your body, right? It's your body, 319 00:14:19,550 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: your choice. And 320 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,140 Speaker 1: And I agree that it can be completely selfish. I 321 00:14:23,140 --> 00:14:26,210 Speaker 1: have a friend who um she got an abortion and 322 00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:29,190 Speaker 1: I think it was 16 years old at that time. 323 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,910 Speaker 1: I was very shocked when she came to me and 324 00:14:30,910 --> 00:14:32,910 Speaker 1: she told me that I'm going to get an abortion 325 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: and she had been dating this guy for maybe like 326 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: a few months, right? And obviously didn't use protection. That's 327 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: a whole other thing, sex education, whole other thing. 328 00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:44,610 Speaker 1: But the fact that her boyfriend at the time had 329 00:14:44,610 --> 00:14:46,890 Speaker 1: to come to me and borrow money for the abortion, 330 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:49,570 Speaker 1: I actually paid for abortion at the time. If he 331 00:14:49,570 --> 00:14:51,940 Speaker 1: can't even afford the abortion, how are you going to 332 00:14:51,940 --> 00:14:55,870 Speaker 1: afford to raise this child? Right. It's just it just 333 00:14:55,870 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. And imagine if she had kept that 334 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,260 Speaker 1: child because of a law because of a constitutional thing, 335 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,940 Speaker 1: her life would be so different right now. You know, 336 00:15:04,940 --> 00:15:06,710 Speaker 1: she wouldn't have been able to do all the things 337 00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:09,090 Speaker 1: she wanted to do. And I have to disagree with 338 00:15:09,090 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: Azura just now she mentioned that a child brings more 339 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,050 Speaker 1: joy than sorrow. I think it's really a case by 340 00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:17,100 Speaker 1: case basis for couples who are well prepared and have 341 00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:18,810 Speaker 1: been looking forward to a child. Of course it's a 342 00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:21,630 Speaker 1: bundle of joy and blessing. But for couples, for example, 343 00:15:21,630 --> 00:15:22,460 Speaker 1: Jamie's friends, 344 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,390 Speaker 1: I honestly do not think that this child would be 345 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,380 Speaker 1: would bring more joy. They broke up shortly after the whole, 346 00:15:28,390 --> 00:15:32,530 Speaker 1: you know, this would have caused the child himself or herself. 347 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:34,750 Speaker 1: A lot of trauma as well. Growing up in a 348 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,900 Speaker 1: broken family. And we also talked a lot about like 349 00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:41,610 Speaker 1: single parenthood, it's so tough to have just one parent. 350 00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: That's why you always need both hands in it, right? 351 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: I think single parent, you know, I think that's completely fine. 352 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,590 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, if you commit to that, 353 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,170 Speaker 1: that's not an issue A lot of stress on you. 354 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: So kudos to you. But if 355 00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:55,770 Speaker 1: you just have to make sure, you know that there's 356 00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:59,030 Speaker 1: huge commitment. Yeah, absolutely. So zero. When do you think? Like, 357 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,990 Speaker 1: what's the ethical itty of whether you decide to go 358 00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: ahead with an abortion or not? What's ethical, what's not ethical, 359 00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: wow, That's really, really hard. I think that's the thing. 360 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,770 Speaker 2: You see when you pass a law like this, it's 361 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:12,350 Speaker 2: either this or that. 362 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: It's very hard to come to an in between where, 363 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:16,860 Speaker 2: you know, um, 364 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:18,060 Speaker 2: you have to 365 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: need certain conditions because even if you put that in place, 366 00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:22,060 Speaker 2: it's not 367 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,900 Speaker 2: your choice anymore fully. You know what I mean? It's 368 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:29,620 Speaker 2: putting conditions in place, it's not giving someone the rights 369 00:16:29,630 --> 00:16:32,100 Speaker 2: of the complete option to it anymore. So, I think 370 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:35,610 Speaker 2: it's really, really hard, but I think to sort of 371 00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: shape the society or help the situation in a sense 372 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,940 Speaker 2: that you don't want to promote that, you know, you 373 00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: can just 374 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: get it for fun or for no reason or you know, 375 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,060 Speaker 2: for no actual 376 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,770 Speaker 2: good reason. I think it's such elsewhere, 377 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: I think, you know, to me, it's not about the 378 00:16:55,930 --> 00:16:59,580 Speaker 1: ethical itty people can say, oh, it will be ethical 379 00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:02,140 Speaker 1: or it's okay to get an abortion if you got 380 00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:05,310 Speaker 1: raped or if it was incestuous, you know, something like that. 381 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,730 Speaker 1: But to me it's not about that. If you deem 382 00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:11,590 Speaker 1: that it's only acceptable to get abortions in that sense, 383 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,770 Speaker 1: then you are reinforcing the idea that 384 00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:17,020 Speaker 1: um for a woman to have rights over her own body, 385 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:19,659 Speaker 1: someone has to violate it first. And that's not true. 386 00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:21,790 Speaker 1: Like even if it's not rape or incest, you should 387 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:24,690 Speaker 1: still have that right over your own body. And I 388 00:17:24,690 --> 00:17:27,110 Speaker 1: love how like a lot of men, you know, especially 389 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,590 Speaker 1: in the United States and getting involved in this argument 390 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:31,970 Speaker 1: and saying that, oh, you can't do that with your body. 391 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: But here's my take on it. If 392 00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: a woman is not allowed to have an abortion, 393 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: then guess what? Man shouldn't be allowed to walk away 394 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,710 Speaker 1: from unwanted pregnancies, correct? Right? Yeah, it takes two hands 395 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:43,370 Speaker 1: for life then if you want to say it that way, 396 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:45,899 Speaker 1: that's very true. Okay, so girls bringing this to a 397 00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:49,830 Speaker 1: local context, although highly unlikely. What do you think that 398 00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:53,230 Speaker 1: if one day Singapore decides that abortion is no longer legal? Well, 399 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: it will make it very, very unsafe. 400 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,770 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would 401 00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:00,010 Speaker 1: you know, then either do it illegally or have to 402 00:18:00,010 --> 00:18:04,010 Speaker 1: travel and not be protected by the Singapore healthcare system. 403 00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:06,419 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very thankful that we live in a 404 00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:09,100 Speaker 1: country that we recognize women's rights 405 00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:10,170 Speaker 2: and you know, like 406 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:11,050 Speaker 2: if 407 00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:15,580 Speaker 2: jermaine's friend, right? For example, couldn't afford couldn't couldn't even 408 00:18:15,580 --> 00:18:16,660 Speaker 2: afford um 409 00:18:17,140 --> 00:18:19,270 Speaker 2: and abortion at that age, 410 00:18:19,740 --> 00:18:23,230 Speaker 2: right? And if it was illegal, I mean how are 411 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:25,810 Speaker 2: they going to afford to travel for example or get 412 00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:29,270 Speaker 2: it done safely? I mean as it is right? Even 413 00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:31,410 Speaker 2: today we hear like horror stories once in a while. 414 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:35,350 Speaker 2: Honestly we really do. So imagine like the steps or 415 00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 2: you know, desperation pushes people to do crazy things and 416 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,770 Speaker 2: imagine what they would be doing. 417 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,450 Speaker 1: Well, I feel that 418 00:18:41,740 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: um Singaporeans, we live in like this environment and my 419 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: personal take is we make very informed decisions. So even 420 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: if this was illegal in Singapore, 421 00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:54,459 Speaker 1: I really do believe that many people would just travel 422 00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:57,030 Speaker 1: out of this place to get it done anyway. But 423 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: you have a point just now, we mentioned, not everybody 424 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: has the financial means to go about doing this. So 425 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: I really hope that it doesn't come even though abortion 426 00:19:06,490 --> 00:19:09,669 Speaker 1: is legal in Singapore, there are, you know, certain procedures 427 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,590 Speaker 1: that you have to go through. It's a process, right? 428 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,939 Speaker 1: And there are certain caveats, you can only abort up 429 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: to 16 weeks, Anything later than that, right? Over 24 430 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,820 Speaker 1: weeks is prohibited. It's considered a late term abortion. And 431 00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:22,430 Speaker 1: that can actually put both mother and child at risk 432 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,770 Speaker 1: unless the mother's health is, you know, 433 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,450 Speaker 1: dependent on this abortion, then that's okay. There's a whole process. 434 00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:31,100 Speaker 1: You have to go through counseling. There's a waiting period, 435 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:34,390 Speaker 1: there's records that ministry of health have to keep. Um 436 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,910 Speaker 1: so it's not just like on a whim let's get 437 00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:38,979 Speaker 1: abortion and we go get abortion. No, you have to 438 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:42,260 Speaker 1: go through a process, right? So other requirements, 439 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: for example, you must be a citizen of Singapore or 440 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,270 Speaker 1: wife of a Singapore citizen, 441 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,190 Speaker 1: or you must be a person who has been a 442 00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:50,619 Speaker 1: resident in Singapore for at least four months. So you 443 00:19:50,619 --> 00:19:52,810 Speaker 1: can just like waddle in and decided, hey, I want 444 00:19:52,810 --> 00:19:54,590 Speaker 1: to get an abortion done. Like no, there's a lot 445 00:19:54,590 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: of procedures ahead of you. Yeah. So I think, you know, 446 00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: there are a lot of stories like that in Singapore 447 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,869 Speaker 1: and our producers wanted to highlight a few of some 448 00:20:02,869 --> 00:20:05,650 Speaker 1: real life cases that have happened here as well. One 449 00:20:05,650 --> 00:20:09,270 Speaker 1: of these stories is we'll give her a pseudonym. Her 450 00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:12,389 Speaker 1: name is Sophie, she was actually 19 years old last 451 00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: year when she found out that she was pregnant, right? 452 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:18,139 Speaker 1: And her parents told her either you get an abortion 453 00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:21,750 Speaker 1: or you have to get married. Okay. Yeah. She decided 454 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,170 Speaker 1: to get married to her boyfriend then of five, 455 00:20:25,340 --> 00:20:27,260 Speaker 1: He was five years older than her, 456 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,449 Speaker 1: but they had a huge fight before the day of 457 00:20:29,450 --> 00:20:32,660 Speaker 1: the wedding and they actually called the wedding off wait. 458 00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:35,580 Speaker 1: So the girl was 19. The guys 24 it's still 459 00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:39,690 Speaker 1: very young and after this relationship ended, her parents still 460 00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:42,869 Speaker 1: wanted her to get an abortion, but Sophie couldn't do it. 461 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,620 Speaker 1: And her parents actually kicked her out when she was 462 00:20:45,619 --> 00:20:46,460 Speaker 1: three months pregnant 463 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,899 Speaker 1: because she refused to get an abortion and her reason 464 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: for not aborting the baby is that 465 00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: abortion might have been the easiest thing to do, but 466 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:55,740 Speaker 1: it didn't feel right and I didn't feel like the 467 00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:58,660 Speaker 1: baby deserved to die and eventually she seeks help from 468 00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:01,730 Speaker 1: a shelter and her parents accepted her back into the 469 00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:02,230 Speaker 1: family 470 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,179 Speaker 2: Actually right. I also know someone who got pregnant when 471 00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:08,770 Speaker 2: she was 18 and she was in J. c. at 472 00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 2: that time. 473 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:11,750 Speaker 2: Um she decided to keep the child, they decided to 474 00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:16,150 Speaker 2: get married um keep the child. Um but they also 475 00:21:16,150 --> 00:21:18,100 Speaker 2: you know, they were very lucky, they had both parents 476 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,260 Speaker 2: support both family support and they're still married till today. 477 00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:22,169 Speaker 2: The kid is like 478 00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 2: 16, 18 today and they've had like a couple of 479 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,940 Speaker 2: other child after but like after a long time, you 480 00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:31,169 Speaker 2: know and that worked out for them. That's why I 481 00:21:31,170 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: say it's not just to keep or not keep issue, 482 00:21:34,050 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: like it's not just an abortion or no abortion issue, 483 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,209 Speaker 2: but I think there's a lot of other things that 484 00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:40,270 Speaker 2: comes with it, like in this case, you know, let's 485 00:21:40,270 --> 00:21:43,470 Speaker 2: say she's really prepared mentally physically, you know, financially, but 486 00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:45,770 Speaker 2: she also needs family support, you know because 487 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,350 Speaker 2: it really takes a village, 488 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,670 Speaker 1: right? And I feel like coming from her parents point 489 00:21:49,670 --> 00:21:51,949 Speaker 1: of view, I can totally see why they wanted her 490 00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: to get an abortion because she was not really that 491 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: guy sure as hell was not really, but you know 492 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,130 Speaker 1: what's the best thing in this situation. Sophie actually had 493 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:01,690 Speaker 1: a choice So she could go ahead with her parents 494 00:22:01,690 --> 00:22:04,060 Speaker 1: decision to abort it or she could go ahead one 495 00:22:04,060 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: decision to keep it and 496 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,859 Speaker 1: she's blessed because things are working out for her, she's 497 00:22:07,859 --> 00:22:10,129 Speaker 1: back together for parents there supportive, they bring out the 498 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:13,210 Speaker 1: child together and I hope they have a very healthy 499 00:22:13,210 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: and happy relationship now. But the important part is she 500 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,230 Speaker 1: had that choice. Exactly, and she made that choice. Therefore 501 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,470 Speaker 1: she can live with herself knowing that she made that 502 00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:24,490 Speaker 1: decision to keep the child. Right? So here's another story, 503 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:28,410 Speaker 1: this author from this online platform, okay. She she said 504 00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:32,290 Speaker 1: that she had used protection while having sex, but unfortunately 505 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:34,709 Speaker 1: the condom broke and eventually she found out that she 506 00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:37,870 Speaker 1: was pregnant. So she and her partner decided to go 507 00:22:37,869 --> 00:22:40,550 Speaker 1: ahead with an abortion because they thought they were not 508 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:42,450 Speaker 1: ready for a kid. And at the end, 509 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,189 Speaker 1: the author actually mentioned that she was mentally strong and 510 00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:48,060 Speaker 1: prepared enough to go through the entire abortion procedure. 511 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,210 Speaker 1: I like a lot of other girls who may have 512 00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: some regrets in their hearts. 513 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:55,220 Speaker 1: Um, I think a lot of people think that abortion 514 00:22:55,230 --> 00:22:58,650 Speaker 1: is just such an easy process, like if you make 515 00:22:58,650 --> 00:23:00,540 Speaker 1: it legal, it's so easy to go through. But there 516 00:23:00,550 --> 00:23:02,810 Speaker 1: are a lot of considerations, there's a lot of mental 517 00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:05,950 Speaker 1: stress and trauma on the people that have gotten abortions 518 00:23:05,950 --> 00:23:07,850 Speaker 1: as well. It's not just that simple, it's not black 519 00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:10,850 Speaker 1: and white. So, you know, giving them that choice. They've 520 00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:13,220 Speaker 1: made that choice. All you can do is to be 521 00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:14,450 Speaker 1: there and support them, 522 00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:16,449 Speaker 1: Right? So can I just tell you a story of 523 00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:19,430 Speaker 1: a very, very close friend of mine. She and her 524 00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:22,550 Speaker 1: boyfriend have dated since the age of 14. 525 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,020 Speaker 1: So it's 11 years down the road now and one 526 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:28,070 Speaker 1: day it was during the circuit breaker period. She found 527 00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: out that she was pregnant. So she and the boyfriend 528 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,899 Speaker 1: went back home to tell her parents her parents were 529 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:34,900 Speaker 1: not very supportive of this. They wanted her to let 530 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,050 Speaker 1: go of it because you know, you just graduated from uni. 531 00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: What do you mean? You have no money to take 532 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,050 Speaker 1: care of the kids. And are you sure you want 533 00:23:40,050 --> 00:23:42,390 Speaker 1: to be married to this guy? Sure you dated for 11, 534 00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:43,670 Speaker 1: 12 years. But are you sure 535 00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:45,770 Speaker 1: you better give yourself some time to think that's true. 536 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: They signed up for this abortion procedure. But the day 537 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,570 Speaker 1: before they visited the clinic, they actually decided to come 538 00:23:52,570 --> 00:23:55,860 Speaker 1: to the guy's family to tell the guys parents about it. 539 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,230 Speaker 1: And the guy's parents, they were very supportive of them 540 00:23:59,230 --> 00:24:00,270 Speaker 1: keeping the baby. 541 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,149 Speaker 1: The mom actually, the mom of the father actually said 542 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,369 Speaker 1: don't abort a baby just give birth to her. We 543 00:24:06,369 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: will take care of her. So the day before the abortion, 544 00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:12,460 Speaker 1: my friend cried, she broke down in tears and she decided, 545 00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:14,270 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't want to go through the 546 00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:17,619 Speaker 1: abortion anymore because after she they have the scan thing 547 00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:21,030 Speaker 1: and you can actually see the fetus. And upon seeing 548 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: that it really broke her a bit to sort of 549 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,270 Speaker 1: like let go of this life. 550 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:27,690 Speaker 1: So eventually they kept it, the baby is about a 551 00:24:27,690 --> 00:24:30,650 Speaker 1: year old now. She's so, so adorable and I'm so 552 00:24:30,650 --> 00:24:31,550 Speaker 1: happy for her that 553 00:24:31,740 --> 00:24:34,950 Speaker 1: they're doing this. But once again they had an option to, 554 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:38,230 Speaker 1: so now they've decided to keep this baby with no 555 00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: regrets in their hearts because they know they could have 556 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,490 Speaker 1: gone the other path, but they didn't they choose to 557 00:24:42,490 --> 00:24:45,050 Speaker 1: keep it okay. So I have a friend as well 558 00:24:45,050 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: who um 559 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: so she found out that she was pregnant, right? And 560 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,980 Speaker 1: she had been dating this guy maybe like two years 561 00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: or so, 562 00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:53,969 Speaker 1: but she didn't want to tell her family because she 563 00:24:53,970 --> 00:24:57,060 Speaker 1: was afraid that her family would influence her decision and 564 00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:00,850 Speaker 1: she wanted it to be her own decision. So when 565 00:25:00,850 --> 00:25:02,970 Speaker 1: she found out she was pregnant, I think what she 566 00:25:02,970 --> 00:25:06,060 Speaker 1: felt was that ship, like I'm with this guy right now, 567 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: but this is not the guy that I want to 568 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,530 Speaker 1: be with for the rest of my life, how can 569 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:11,050 Speaker 1: I keep this baby knowing that 570 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,869 Speaker 1: I don't want to raise a baby with this guy. 571 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,350 Speaker 1: So it kind of went through her head in that sense. 572 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,290 Speaker 1: So she kept it from both the families. They kept 573 00:25:18,290 --> 00:25:20,770 Speaker 1: it from both the families went ahead for the procedure 574 00:25:20,780 --> 00:25:25,550 Speaker 1: and basically didn't tell anyone about. Can the guy pay 575 00:25:25,550 --> 00:25:28,629 Speaker 1: for the abortion procedure? No, so the girl paid for it. 576 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,110 Speaker 1: So the girl for it, my friend paid for it 577 00:25:32,150 --> 00:25:35,330 Speaker 1: shortly after the abortion. They broke up and then her 578 00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:36,859 Speaker 1: parents found out a few years later 579 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,890 Speaker 1: and her mom was like so upset. Her mom was 580 00:25:39,890 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: saying why didn't you tell me about this? Because you 581 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: would have influenced her decision. Yeah, precisely because you know, 582 00:25:47,450 --> 00:25:50,430 Speaker 1: you're afraid of like your parents being disappointed in you 583 00:25:50,430 --> 00:25:53,510 Speaker 1: being upset in you and not being able to support you. 584 00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: And I guess she was just scared at that point 585 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:56,450 Speaker 1: of time, but 586 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,250 Speaker 1: it made her realize that that's not the person that 587 00:25:59,250 --> 00:26:01,550 Speaker 1: she wants to be with. Imagine if she had kept 588 00:26:01,550 --> 00:26:04,250 Speaker 1: that child in and that guy went on to be 589 00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: a deadbeat dad, he knocked up another girl and didn't 590 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,460 Speaker 1: want to take responsibility for that child. She wanted to 591 00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:10,860 Speaker 1: keep it. 592 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,540 Speaker 1: So did she keep it in the end? Yes. So 593 00:26:13,550 --> 00:26:16,820 Speaker 1: imagine can you imagine like that's just crazy. So the 594 00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:18,050 Speaker 1: most important thing is, you know, 595 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,260 Speaker 1: to have a choice at 596 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:22,010 Speaker 2: the end of the day, like what we've been talking 597 00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:24,180 Speaker 2: about just now, you know, it's really about the importance 598 00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:25,790 Speaker 2: of having a choice, right? And if you want to 599 00:26:25,790 --> 00:26:28,860 Speaker 2: make it illegal for an abortion, then don't allow all 600 00:26:28,859 --> 00:26:31,419 Speaker 2: these bloody guys don't have sex, You don't have sex. 601 00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: You don't want the responsibility. I have to take responsibility 602 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,710 Speaker 2: for it. I'm the one who's going to be stuck 603 00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:37,669 Speaker 2: with a child because I'm 604 00:26:37,740 --> 00:26:39,860 Speaker 2: well, the thing is you can jolly well right away 605 00:26:39,859 --> 00:26:41,060 Speaker 2: and be a D. V. D. 606 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:45,689 Speaker 1: She's like rapping. She's very angry. There was a temple 607 00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:51,970 Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also read something that 608 00:26:51,970 --> 00:26:54,470 Speaker 1: I think is is very poignant. So in the US 609 00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:57,850 Speaker 1: right where this whole thing originated, where they're, you know, 610 00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:00,270 Speaker 1: banning abortion in many, many states, um, 611 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,750 Speaker 1: buying a gun is actually easier than getting an abortion. 612 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: And someone said you wouldn't try to regulate my vagina 613 00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:11,670 Speaker 1: if it fired bullets. So therefore, right, we should 614 00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:13,550 Speaker 1: train our vaginas right 615 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:17,450 Speaker 1: to shoot bullets. Wow. Not very um, um, 616 00:27:19,940 --> 00:27:21,669 Speaker 1: Ak 47. 617 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,930 Speaker 1: No, that's a very valid point. Why is it easier 618 00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: to buy a gun to get a gun than to 619 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: get an abortion? I don't understand. Okay, but this is 620 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:34,380 Speaker 1: personal point of view. Okay. So yeah, we're all entitled 621 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:37,590 Speaker 1: to our own opinions, right? That's what hash podcast is for. Exactly. 622 00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:39,780 Speaker 1: And and let's talk about, you know some advice or 623 00:27:39,780 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 1: some thoughts for our listeners. Of course it's not happening 624 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,060 Speaker 1: right here in Singapore. But 625 00:27:44,140 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: how can we support 626 00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: what's going on? Oh, I know second hand how traumatic 627 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,460 Speaker 1: it must be to be going through the decision of 628 00:27:51,460 --> 00:27:53,889 Speaker 1: like should I go for an abortion or not because 629 00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:55,780 Speaker 1: that friend I mentioned just now, she was very close 630 00:27:55,780 --> 00:27:58,379 Speaker 1: to me so I can see her breaking down. So 631 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:00,780 Speaker 1: I just want to say, please remember that this is 632 00:28:00,780 --> 00:28:03,430 Speaker 1: your choice. And like what jimmy mentioned, maybe your family 633 00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:05,450 Speaker 1: members can influence your choice. So it's 634 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,420 Speaker 1: definitely up to you whether you want to let them 635 00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: know or not, but speak to someone you really trust, 636 00:28:09,690 --> 00:28:14,409 Speaker 1: be your guinea or whoever and make the most informed 637 00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:18,050 Speaker 1: decision that you can Absolutely. What do you think? 638 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: I think you know, nothing is for certain. You could 639 00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: jolly well sign up for an abortion. Actually. I know 640 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,950 Speaker 2: somebody whose mother wanted to abort him, 641 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,460 Speaker 2: she was on the way to the clinic already 642 00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:31,060 Speaker 2: and then she decided to turn back. So, you know, 643 00:28:31,060 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 2: nothing is for certain but having that choice I think 644 00:28:34,690 --> 00:28:37,570 Speaker 2: says a lot. It helps a lot because you know, 645 00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 2: it lets you explore things, it lets you think about 646 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: the kind of life you want to have the kind 647 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,850 Speaker 2: of life that you want your child to have. 648 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,530 Speaker 2: Um and I think that that in itself is very, 649 00:28:48,530 --> 00:28:51,970 Speaker 2: very important because it influences it affects a lot of 650 00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:55,930 Speaker 2: other things in this world. So, um that's what I 651 00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:58,459 Speaker 2: think that, you know, an abortion is not an easy 652 00:28:58,460 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: thing to go through. 653 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: It's not something that you can just decide like, oh, 654 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,170 Speaker 2: I'm gonna buy candy today. So I'm going to have 655 00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: an abortion today. It's not anything like that. You know, 656 00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:09,470 Speaker 2: it's actually a physical thing. It's actually a mental thing 657 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:11,770 Speaker 2: as well for the mother who is about to do it. 658 00:29:12,140 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: But having a choice is the most important thing because 659 00:29:14,330 --> 00:29:15,050 Speaker 2: I think 660 00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:21,910 Speaker 2: it's her body and she knows what is best for 661 00:29:21,910 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 2: her and the child. Like I think a lot of 662 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: this has to do with the child as well. The 663 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: quality of life that the child's gonna have that at 664 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,860 Speaker 2: the end of the day, right? 665 00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:33,190 Speaker 2: The child's not gonna suffer. 666 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,930 Speaker 1: Being pro choice is not being pro abortion. That's right. 667 00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:39,690 Speaker 1: I think that's a very important distinction. Being pro choice 668 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: is allowing them to make their choices. And if let's 669 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,740 Speaker 1: say your friend comes to you and she says, I 670 00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:47,070 Speaker 1: want to do this. Don't don't try to tell her 671 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: that's the wrong decision or anything, just be there for her. 672 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,770 Speaker 1: Support her 673 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,110 Speaker 1: If you can, if you guys are close enough, maybe 674 00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:55,140 Speaker 1: accompany her to the clinic, you never know what's going 675 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:57,140 Speaker 1: on in her life. And just check in with her 676 00:29:57,150 --> 00:30:00,420 Speaker 1: after as well, regardless of whether she chooses to keep 677 00:30:00,420 --> 00:30:03,740 Speaker 1: the child or abort the child just be there for them. Right? 678 00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:06,020 Speaker 1: I just want to say that whatever you're feeling if 679 00:30:06,020 --> 00:30:09,270 Speaker 1: you're going through the decision of like abortion or not, 680 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,060 Speaker 1: whatever you're feeling they're all valid. Okay? So don't invalidate 681 00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:15,900 Speaker 1: yourself and your emotions, that's very important. Absolutely. And I 682 00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: think if you want to support like what's going on 683 00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:20,020 Speaker 1: in the US as well, you can donate to an 684 00:30:20,020 --> 00:30:22,090 Speaker 1: abortion fund if that's something that you want to do 685 00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:23,900 Speaker 1: and you're comfortable doing. Yeah, why not? 686 00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:27,230 Speaker 2: That's right. Once again, this is how you know, personal opinion. 687 00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 2: We're not trained professionals. You are by no means like 688 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,980 Speaker 2: experts are qualified to talk about this. But I think 689 00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:35,780 Speaker 2: that this opens up a channel for conversation, which is really, 690 00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:38,260 Speaker 2: really important. And I hope that you know that you're 691 00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: never alone, no matter what you're going through, just think 692 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,150 Speaker 2: about it for yourself. I think that's important for your future, 693 00:30:44,150 --> 00:30:46,630 Speaker 2: for your child's future because whoever is going to say 694 00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 2: anything right, they're not going to help you embracing that 695 00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: kid then 696 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:50,900 Speaker 2: not valid. 697 00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:54,820 Speaker 1: Well this is a touchy sensitive topic but I'm glad 698 00:30:54,820 --> 00:30:57,170 Speaker 1: we talked about this and for you who have been 699 00:30:57,170 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: listening to us over the past, say 30 minutes. Thank 700 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,220 Speaker 1: you for being here with us. We're always here for 701 00:31:01,220 --> 00:31:04,020 Speaker 1: you and let us know if you guys have any 702 00:31:04,020 --> 00:31:06,340 Speaker 1: thoughts about this as well. We are open to hearing 703 00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:07,740 Speaker 1: all kinds of thoughts as well. 704 00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: Let's listen to us on Youtube. 705 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,450 Speaker 2: Me listen Apple podcast and as well as Spotify. 706 00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:14,900 Speaker 1: Once again, I'm hazel, 707 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:19,790 Speaker 1: I will catch you on the next episode of clarity's 708 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:20,610 Speaker 1: hash 709 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: season forever. Forever. I hope the next episode we will 710 00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:28,990 Speaker 1: all be together, enjoy your trip in Barcelona baby girl. 711 00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:30,270 Speaker 1: We miss you so much. 712 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,500 Speaker 2: Thank you my love 713 00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:34,170 Speaker 1: by