1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,340 Speaker 1: this is a C. N. A podcast. 2 00:00:03,590 --> 00:00:05,510 Speaker 1: What a 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:14,250 Speaker 1: a few carefree moments for these Children at an orphanage 4 00:00:14,260 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: in cambodia's Kampong Speu province. Some orphans in the country 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,220 Speaker 1: though are not orphans at all their kids taken from 6 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: poor families and exploited to do hard labor and perform 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,220 Speaker 1: for unwitting international visitors. 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,650 Speaker 1: Orphanages are big business in cambodia or at least they 9 00:00:32,650 --> 00:00:36,260 Speaker 1: were authorities with the help of Ngos are cracking down 10 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: on facilities that profit off these Children but some argue 11 00:00:40,659 --> 00:00:43,540 Speaker 1: it's not a business and that it's actually for the 12 00:00:43,540 --> 00:00:45,610 Speaker 1: betterment of these kids. 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,500 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to CNN correspondent. I'm your host, Teresa Tang. 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: This is the podcast where our network of correspondents shine 15 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: a light on stories from wherever they are in the world, 16 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:13,459 Speaker 1: bringing you behind and beyond the headlines on today's edition. 17 00:01:13,459 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: I take you to cambodia and into the world of 18 00:01:16,569 --> 00:01:17,930 Speaker 1: orphanage tourism. 19 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Our correspondent young like it is usually flying around covering 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,410 Speaker 1: stories in the Asean region and he joins me now 21 00:01:28,410 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: in studio in Singapore. Welcome like it, 22 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: thank you 23 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,209 Speaker 1: Teresa like it. First off when I heard we were 24 00:01:34,209 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: going to be speaking about orphanages in cambodia. My heart 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,060 Speaker 1: dropped because back in 2007 I was traveling solo in 26 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:44,030 Speaker 1: the country and a local man on his took took 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,569 Speaker 1: came up to me and he said miss would you 28 00:01:46,569 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: like to see something. So I followed him to an 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,300 Speaker 1: orphanage and 30 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:54,130 Speaker 1: there were Children there in tattered clothing but they were 31 00:01:54,130 --> 00:01:56,690 Speaker 1: so warm and welcoming and they played games with me 32 00:01:56,690 --> 00:01:59,100 Speaker 1: for quite some time and then at the end of 33 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: the visit, the director of that orphanage approached me and 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,830 Speaker 1: asked if I wanted to give them some money and 35 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:06,870 Speaker 1: of course I said yes. So I opened my wallet 36 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,810 Speaker 1: and instead of the local currency he asked for us dollars. 37 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:13,590 Speaker 1: And now I'm wondering, do you think I was scammed? 38 00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:16,060 Speaker 2: Yes, without a doubt. And I say this because 39 00:02:16,290 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: whatever you just shared is exactly the kind of things 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,130 Speaker 2: that people who are close to orphanage tourism share with 41 00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:25,540 Speaker 2: me that they bring you to orphanages. And quite often 42 00:02:25,540 --> 00:02:28,110 Speaker 2: people who visit these places, they will see posters or 43 00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:32,500 Speaker 2: even photo albums in english documenting how Children lead their 44 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:34,809 Speaker 2: lives there and how your donations will make a difference 45 00:02:34,810 --> 00:02:35,299 Speaker 2: to them. 46 00:02:36,020 --> 00:02:38,700 Speaker 2: I cannot guarantee how much of your money that you 47 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:40,770 Speaker 2: gave that day would go to the Children. But I 48 00:02:40,770 --> 00:02:43,610 Speaker 2: can say this because I've spoken with orphans who live 49 00:02:43,620 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: in these places where orphanage tourism was thriving and I 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,660 Speaker 2: can say that on that day in 20 or seven 51 00:02:48,669 --> 00:02:51,190 Speaker 2: the interactions you had with them, the joy that you brought. 52 00:02:51,190 --> 00:02:53,730 Speaker 2: The encouragement and inspiration you pass on to these Children 53 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:56,290 Speaker 2: will stay with them. I know this because I asked 54 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:57,130 Speaker 2: them about it. 55 00:02:57,370 --> 00:03:01,330 Speaker 2: Of course I'm not glorifying orphanage tourism. Many people slam 56 00:03:01,330 --> 00:03:03,310 Speaker 2: the sector, but I also want to point out that 57 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,470 Speaker 2: not all orphanages are run like that. They are legitimate 58 00:03:06,470 --> 00:03:08,620 Speaker 2: ones that exist because they need to take care of 59 00:03:08,620 --> 00:03:12,310 Speaker 2: Children who are vulnerable. But unfortunately some of them just 60 00:03:12,310 --> 00:03:14,829 Speaker 2: go under the radar and things like that happen. 61 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,710 Speaker 1: The thought never even crossed my mind that this would 62 00:03:17,710 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: be a business for somebody. 63 00:03:19,630 --> 00:03:23,190 Speaker 1: So okay, the government in Cambodia is cracking down because 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,340 Speaker 1: it's not only immoral but it also just doesn't look 65 00:03:26,340 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: good for the country right to have a reputation of 66 00:03:29,169 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: misleading tourists and exploiting people's compassion. So in 2015 authorities 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: launched a reform plan. Tell us about that 68 00:03:37,250 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: Right. That reform plan was a solution to a problem 69 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,490 Speaker 2: that they found in 2005 which is around the time 70 00:03:42,490 --> 00:03:46,350 Speaker 2: when you visited Cambodia's orphanages. That figure was around 150. 71 00:03:46,350 --> 00:03:48,370 Speaker 2: So there were about 150 orphanages 72 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: in the span of 10 years. That figure tripled to 73 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,570 Speaker 2: more than 400. And that's when the authorities thought, hey, 74 00:03:53,570 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: something is wrong, let's do a study and see what's wrong. 75 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,610 Speaker 2: And they found two astonishing findings. One many of these 76 00:03:59,620 --> 00:04:02,450 Speaker 2: orphanages were unregistered. So they go under the radar and 77 00:04:02,460 --> 00:04:06,630 Speaker 2: nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors to 80%. 78 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:09,710 Speaker 2: And that's eight in 10 Children who live in those orphanages. 79 00:04:09,710 --> 00:04:12,270 Speaker 2: They aren't really often they're there because their families are 80 00:04:12,270 --> 00:04:15,670 Speaker 2: so poor that they send them there because they get 81 00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:17,659 Speaker 2: a promise of free education 82 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: and when there is a supply of these Children agents 83 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: go around to fulfill those demands from orphanage tourism places. 84 00:04:25,330 --> 00:04:28,510 Speaker 2: So that's that. But the government now wants to put 85 00:04:28,510 --> 00:04:31,140 Speaker 2: a stop to it. So it's auditing these orphanages that 86 00:04:31,140 --> 00:04:33,700 Speaker 2: go around at least once a year? Look at what 87 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,220 Speaker 2: goes on behind closed doors and they get to speak 88 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:40,180 Speaker 2: to Children. And when Children raise points that look I 89 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:41,900 Speaker 2: do have a family but I'm here because I'm poor 90 00:04:41,910 --> 00:04:43,010 Speaker 2: then they try and do 91 00:04:43,086 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 2: what they can they tap on N. G. O. S. 92 00:04:44,806 --> 00:04:47,676 Speaker 2: So these social workers will go to the orphanages, talk 93 00:04:47,676 --> 00:04:50,546 Speaker 2: to Children, link them back to the communities and look 94 00:04:50,546 --> 00:04:53,106 Speaker 2: at what sent them there in the first place. So 95 00:04:53,106 --> 00:04:56,466 Speaker 2: if the family has poverty issues they teach say the 96 00:04:56,466 --> 00:04:59,036 Speaker 2: father farming skills so they can take up extra jobs. 97 00:04:59,046 --> 00:05:01,946 Speaker 2: Or if let's say everybody say a family of 10 98 00:05:01,946 --> 00:05:04,765 Speaker 2: squeeze in a very small house, they give them materials 99 00:05:04,766 --> 00:05:06,646 Speaker 2: to build a new house so it's not a one 100 00:05:06,646 --> 00:05:08,310 Speaker 2: size fits all solution. The N. G. O. 101 00:05:08,322 --> 00:05:12,101 Speaker 2: Will work with families come up with mutually agreed goals 102 00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:15,612 Speaker 2: and then when they can sustain that lifestyle for the 103 00:05:15,612 --> 00:05:17,622 Speaker 2: child they bring them back and then they have follow 104 00:05:17,622 --> 00:05:20,302 Speaker 2: up cases and only when they meet the majority of 105 00:05:20,302 --> 00:05:22,852 Speaker 2: those goals do they close the case and move on. 106 00:05:22,862 --> 00:05:23,222 Speaker 2: That's 107 00:05:23,222 --> 00:05:26,392 Speaker 1: really encouraging that officials will take the time to investigate 108 00:05:26,392 --> 00:05:29,481 Speaker 1: what goes on and to not only look at the 109 00:05:29,482 --> 00:05:32,751 Speaker 1: orphanage itself but also what's happening with those families behind 110 00:05:32,752 --> 00:05:33,552 Speaker 1: the scenes. 111 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:35,910 Speaker 1: Bye. 112 00:05:38,790 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: That is the sound of girls reciting from textbooks during 113 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: a lesson. An example of some good work orphanages are 114 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,950 Speaker 1: doing caring for Children until they have a proper home 115 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:54,030 Speaker 1: providing them with some education. 116 00:05:54,430 --> 00:05:57,420 Speaker 1: Why tell us what a day in their life is 117 00:05:57,420 --> 00:06:00,589 Speaker 1: like how are Ngos reuniting kids with their parents 118 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: for your first question, I visited this orphanage called seeds 119 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,990 Speaker 2: of Hope and that's run by a Malaysian director who 120 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:10,950 Speaker 2: is supported by churches in Singapore and Malaysia. So these 121 00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:13,490 Speaker 2: are legitimate orphanages because they work very closely with the 122 00:06:13,490 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 2: government and I must tell you these kids lead a 123 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: lifestyle that is even more disciplined than many of the 124 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,130 Speaker 2: adult friends. They sleep by nine p.m. They wake up 125 00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:21,580 Speaker 2: by five. 126 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: I am and most of their time is spent in school. 127 00:06:23,930 --> 00:06:26,670 Speaker 2: So this orphanage pays for their school fees, they go 128 00:06:26,670 --> 00:06:29,510 Speaker 2: to a private school about 10 minutes from the orphanage 129 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,740 Speaker 2: when they come back in the evenings, it's mandatory homework 130 00:06:32,740 --> 00:06:36,270 Speaker 2: time once a week, they get your movie nights weekends, 131 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 2: it's spring cleaning in the dorm areas. But then they 132 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,620 Speaker 2: get their free time. On weekends they get to be Children. 133 00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 2: They get to run around and laugh when I was 134 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,190 Speaker 2: there with my filming crew, we were invited to lunch 135 00:06:46,190 --> 00:06:48,140 Speaker 2: with them. Nothing extravagant for us. We ate whatever the 136 00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:48,770 Speaker 2: Children ate 137 00:06:48,910 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: white rice, one dish of meat and vegetable curry and fruits. 138 00:06:53,130 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: Very delicious like I said not extravagant but from my 139 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,570 Speaker 2: observation simple but adequate. So your second question of how 140 00:07:00,580 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: Ngos re home families. So the government usually gets in 141 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,529 Speaker 2: touch with its network of ngos 142 00:07:05,550 --> 00:07:08,580 Speaker 2: and right now the government doesn't have the capability or 143 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:11,450 Speaker 2: resources to do that themselves. So they work very closely 144 00:07:11,450 --> 00:07:14,260 Speaker 2: with these ngos. They will visit the ngos interview the 145 00:07:14,260 --> 00:07:16,490 Speaker 2: Children like I said earlier and they do follow up 146 00:07:16,490 --> 00:07:16,940 Speaker 2: cases 147 00:07:16,950 --> 00:07:20,890 Speaker 1: All right, stay with us up next on CNN correspondent 148 00:07:20,890 --> 00:07:23,500 Speaker 1: more with young like it. He spoke to a former 149 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:27,380 Speaker 1: orphanage director who defends the profits he made off Children 150 00:07:27,390 --> 00:07:31,430 Speaker 1: and we also hear from a child orphanage survivor decades 151 00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:32,610 Speaker 1: after her abuse. 152 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:37,390 Speaker 1: Mhm 153 00:07:38,970 --> 00:07:39,910 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Adrian 154 00:07:39,910 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: Tan and I'm Christina robert. We are the host of 155 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: a new 156 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:43,869 Speaker 1: podcast called 157 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:46,630 Speaker 2: working, we're here to get into the essential things that 158 00:07:46,630 --> 00:07:49,490 Speaker 2: no one tells you about working in company culture. From 159 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Office politics to dealing with burnout. 160 00:07:51,850 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: If you've ever wanted to eavesdrop on an interesting conversation 161 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,180 Speaker 1: by the water cooler. 162 00:07:56,190 --> 00:07:58,710 Speaker 2: This podcast is for you look out for 163 00:07:58,710 --> 00:08:01,170 Speaker 1: our episodes wherever you get your podcast. 164 00:08:08,210 --> 00:08:13,300 Speaker 1: Welcome back to CNN correspondent like it surprisingly operators of 165 00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:16,350 Speaker 1: some of these orphanage businesses, they're not actually in hiding. 166 00:08:16,350 --> 00:08:18,490 Speaker 1: You think that they would be they don't think they've 167 00:08:18,490 --> 00:08:21,740 Speaker 1: done anything wrong. Right. You managed to track one down. 168 00:08:21,740 --> 00:08:22,590 Speaker 1: What did he say? 169 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: Right, firstly they're not in hiding because orphanage tourism is 170 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,610 Speaker 2: not illegal, but there is a fine line between disciplining 171 00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:32,860 Speaker 2: a child and abusing their child or making him work 172 00:08:32,870 --> 00:08:34,780 Speaker 2: and crossing the line to exploit him. 173 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: It wasn't difficult to find such an orphanage because my 174 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: fixes in cambodia heard of this orphanage that used to 175 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,910 Speaker 2: thrive on tourists. So we visited that area. It was 176 00:08:43,910 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: closed down. We had no access into that place but 177 00:08:46,530 --> 00:08:49,140 Speaker 2: villages whom we spoke to said oh we always see 178 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:51,790 Speaker 2: tourists year in year out. Many of them were walking 179 00:08:51,790 --> 00:08:53,970 Speaker 2: out of the orphanage but it's not because of Covid 180 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: it is closed down. But they did point us to 181 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 2: where to find the wife of the orphanage director. So 182 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,770 Speaker 2: we approached there, we were very frankly said we're doing 183 00:09:01,770 --> 00:09:02,020 Speaker 2: a 184 00:09:02,067 --> 00:09:04,547 Speaker 2: tv documentary, can we speak to you and your husband? 185 00:09:04,557 --> 00:09:08,417 Speaker 2: They said yes let us into the complex. It is huge. 186 00:09:08,417 --> 00:09:13,277 Speaker 2: Teresa 10 football fields near the entrance, there's a classroom 187 00:09:13,277 --> 00:09:16,967 Speaker 2: further in, there's a residential quarters, there's even a cow farm, 188 00:09:16,977 --> 00:09:20,256 Speaker 2: there's a building to host tourists. There's your living quarters 189 00:09:20,267 --> 00:09:23,207 Speaker 2: and places for people together huge. And he was frank 190 00:09:23,207 --> 00:09:26,617 Speaker 2: about sharing because he's already closed that down. And like 191 00:09:26,617 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: I said, it's not illegal from what I 192 00:09:29,094 --> 00:09:31,574 Speaker 2: I gathered he made quite a lot of money because 193 00:09:31,583 --> 00:09:34,644 Speaker 2: he hosts tourists. He says he can host up to 194 00:09:34,644 --> 00:09:38,634 Speaker 2: 70 people. He charges $15 per person and they can 195 00:09:38,634 --> 00:09:40,774 Speaker 2: stay up to one month. So that's already more than 196 00:09:40,774 --> 00:09:44,344 Speaker 2: 1000 a day on top of that. Children are not 197 00:09:44,354 --> 00:09:47,194 Speaker 2: just spending their time studying there. They do work, they 198 00:09:47,194 --> 00:09:50,334 Speaker 2: work on the fields because the director says these Children 199 00:09:50,344 --> 00:09:53,644 Speaker 2: will need to work to support themselves because you need 200 00:09:53,644 --> 00:09:56,110 Speaker 2: to plow the fields, you need to yield vegetables. 201 00:09:56,121 --> 00:09:58,941 Speaker 2: So that's what they do. They also learn to weave 202 00:09:58,951 --> 00:10:02,271 Speaker 2: baskets to make products to sell and every day they 203 00:10:02,271 --> 00:10:04,481 Speaker 2: spend about an hour and a half to learn traditional 204 00:10:04,481 --> 00:10:07,991 Speaker 2: dance and on weekends they go and perform. Some of 205 00:10:07,991 --> 00:10:12,131 Speaker 2: these performances can fetch up to $1000 sometimes two, depending 206 00:10:12,131 --> 00:10:14,611 Speaker 2: on how grand it is. So I asked him whether 207 00:10:14,611 --> 00:10:18,090 Speaker 2: he thinks he's exploiting Children and he says no, he 208 00:10:18,091 --> 00:10:20,501 Speaker 2: says there are negative views, but the positive side is 209 00:10:20,501 --> 00:10:23,150 Speaker 2: that these poor kids get a chance to education, 210 00:10:23,309 --> 00:10:27,090 Speaker 2: they get exposed to the world, foreigners come to the orphanage, 211 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 2: they get exposed to different cultures, they pick up english. 212 00:10:29,690 --> 00:10:32,530 Speaker 2: But look, I've described this to a few people who 213 00:10:32,530 --> 00:10:34,939 Speaker 2: work in child protection services and without a doubt they 214 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:36,620 Speaker 2: say this is child exploitation. 215 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:39,429 Speaker 1: When you meet these Children and you look at them, 216 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,450 Speaker 1: you wonder, I wonder what's going to happen to them 217 00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: based on these experiences that they've had, How are they 218 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,890 Speaker 1: going to be impacted mentally emotionally. And you met one 219 00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:51,290 Speaker 1: woman with a really incredible story, 220 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:55,020 Speaker 2: incredible is the word Teresa. She doesn't just have an 221 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:59,410 Speaker 2: incredible story. She's an incredible person. I mean she laughs easily, 222 00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:02,230 Speaker 2: she has this very contagious sense of warmth when you 223 00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:04,770 Speaker 2: talk to her, I'll share more with you about her. 224 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:06,740 Speaker 2: But let's just take a listen to what she says 225 00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:07,870 Speaker 2: about her childhood 226 00:11:09,809 --> 00:11:13,780 Speaker 2: after most of my parents died from HIV. I was 227 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:17,470 Speaker 2: sent to live at the orphanage and then my childhood 228 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,329 Speaker 2: was destroyed. I never feel 229 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: a child anymore. We were badly neglect. We don't have 230 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,930 Speaker 2: food to eat, we don't have clean water to drink. 231 00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:36,780 Speaker 2: We will hit badly violent because we're being a kid, 232 00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:40,450 Speaker 2: we're being playful, we don't want to work. 233 00:11:43,179 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 2: It's difficult to hear her story because she shared very 234 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:51,309 Speaker 2: painful experiences. She says she remembers being always hungry and 235 00:11:51,309 --> 00:11:53,850 Speaker 2: when volunteers come, sometimes they bring food and that's when 236 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:57,260 Speaker 2: she will stuff herself silly because she says she doesn't 237 00:11:57,260 --> 00:11:59,860 Speaker 2: know when her next not delicious, but next full meal 238 00:11:59,860 --> 00:12:01,750 Speaker 2: would be. So she eats until she pukes 239 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,610 Speaker 2: and on some days they don't eat breakfast on some 240 00:12:04,610 --> 00:12:08,100 Speaker 2: days they just eat rice with pickled vegetables and these 241 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:10,610 Speaker 2: poor Children are driven to hunger that they go to 242 00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:15,420 Speaker 2: the rice fields and catch rats to eat. My heart sank. 243 00:12:15,429 --> 00:12:17,390 Speaker 2: And so I asked her her name is seen it, 244 00:12:17,390 --> 00:12:19,579 Speaker 2: seen it what was the lowest point when you were 245 00:12:19,580 --> 00:12:22,420 Speaker 2: in the orphanage And that's when she said, the lowest 246 00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:25,270 Speaker 2: point for me was when I was raped by the 247 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,069 Speaker 2: orphanage director, she was 12 248 00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:31,390 Speaker 2: And it happened almost every night until she was 16. 249 00:12:31,390 --> 00:12:33,569 Speaker 2: And that's only because a volunteer found out and they 250 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:37,460 Speaker 2: went to the authorities and her words sent a chill 251 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:40,890 Speaker 2: down my spine. Teresa, not because of the experience, but 252 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:43,110 Speaker 2: also because of how she said it. 253 00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:46,450 Speaker 2: There was this grim determination for her to suppress her emotions. 254 00:12:46,450 --> 00:12:48,300 Speaker 2: She wants her story to be told. You can see 255 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,630 Speaker 2: that she tried her very best not to cry. You 256 00:12:50,630 --> 00:12:52,619 Speaker 2: can see that her lips were quivering, one side of 257 00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:56,660 Speaker 2: her face was trembling and she was eerily calm about it. 258 00:12:56,660 --> 00:12:58,300 Speaker 2: And that was what struck me because 259 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:01,059 Speaker 2: This must have been such a painful experience to you. 260 00:13:01,059 --> 00:13:04,770 Speaker 2: That even after sharing this story, 20 years on the 261 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: emotion still surface, it was very difficult for me. 262 00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:10,780 Speaker 1: She managed to put that past behind her and really 263 00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:13,350 Speaker 1: regained the confidence and sense of safety to talk to 264 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: a journalist like yourself. What was this story? Like covering 265 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: it for you? It was very emotional and you said 266 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,890 Speaker 1: it actually had repercussions for you in the days to come. 267 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:26,450 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not ashamed about it, but when I was 268 00:13:26,450 --> 00:13:27,220 Speaker 2: talking to her, 269 00:13:27,429 --> 00:13:29,699 Speaker 2: I was the one who broke down. I couldn't control 270 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,350 Speaker 2: myself and I'm a 43 year old man who has 271 00:13:32,350 --> 00:13:36,910 Speaker 2: covered my fair share of disasters, conflicts, murder scenes, crime 272 00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:41,090 Speaker 2: scenes and it was still painful to listen to because 273 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:43,690 Speaker 2: even though my questions were said in the words of 274 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:46,300 Speaker 2: a journalist, whatever goes in my ears and my heart, 275 00:13:46,309 --> 00:13:49,339 Speaker 2: I listen like a friend and I really couldn't imagine 276 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:50,700 Speaker 2: how difficult it was for her. 277 00:13:51,130 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: One of the first things you notice about is that 278 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: she also has a lot of tattoos from her neck 279 00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:59,130 Speaker 2: all the way to her shoulders to a forearm and 280 00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:00,790 Speaker 2: I asked her what those meant to her and she 281 00:14:00,790 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 2: says these are means for her to cover up her 282 00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:07,750 Speaker 2: insecurities and fears hoping that these tattoos will scare people off. 283 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,090 Speaker 2: I don't want to oversimplify her journey but now she 284 00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:13,140 Speaker 2: has turned her life around and I want you to 285 00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:16,190 Speaker 2: listen from the horse's mouth how she feels about her 286 00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: journey 287 00:14:18,890 --> 00:14:22,060 Speaker 2: when I leave the orphanage, I was just 288 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:24,950 Speaker 2: a scare 289 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:26,750 Speaker 2: a little girls. 290 00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:31,540 Speaker 2: It's crazy because I got panic all the time. I 291 00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: can't talk to people, I can cross the road, 292 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:39,740 Speaker 2: I can't go to school and I think getting tattoo 293 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: is the cover of 294 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: How I scare other people off from hurting me. It 295 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: took me 20 years to where I am today. 296 00:14:50,780 --> 00:14:52,630 Speaker 2: To be happy, I can say 297 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:54,260 Speaker 2: to be 298 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,790 Speaker 2: able to talk about this and sharing 299 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: and feeling not ashamed 300 00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: The night after talking to psinet, I had two back 301 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: to back nightmares. The first was I was on a 302 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,310 Speaker 2: plane and was about to crash and my final words 303 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,700 Speaker 2: in that nightmare were I love you mommy! The next 304 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:19,860 Speaker 2: night I had a dream about me and my younger brother, 305 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: we are four years apart, we are very close but 306 00:15:21,930 --> 00:15:24,410 Speaker 2: in my dream, I was my adult self, my brother 307 00:15:24,410 --> 00:15:28,190 Speaker 2: was four years old, tiny, cute, you know fun. He 308 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:29,770 Speaker 2: was holding my hand and then he let go for 309 00:15:29,770 --> 00:15:32,020 Speaker 2: a moment to explore somewhere 310 00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 2: And he fell four stories down. I remember the dread 311 00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: and the pain that I felt in my nightmare and 312 00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:42,550 Speaker 2: this is just me after one session talking to psinet. 313 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,930 Speaker 2: So imagine how intense it must be for cnet to 314 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: have to go through this 20 years. 315 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:50,550 Speaker 1: Why can't as journalists we usually have to check our 316 00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: emotions at the door. But sometimes like Senate story, it 317 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: really just hits you and it reminds you that suffering 318 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,430 Speaker 1: is such a universal experience and we really feel for Sinnett. 319 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: Where do you think the future of cambodia's orphanages lie? 320 00:16:04,370 --> 00:16:07,140 Speaker 1: Do you think tourists are jaded or will there still 321 00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: be a steady stream of compassion and donations? 322 00:16:09,730 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 2: I think there will always be kind people and there 323 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,050 Speaker 2: will always be people who exploit that. But from my 324 00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:18,130 Speaker 2: observations and talking to people in cambodia, especially the authorities, 325 00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:21,670 Speaker 2: the government and ngos and also UNICEF they're very confident 326 00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:24,620 Speaker 2: that this is not gonna last because one there's natural 327 00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:27,350 Speaker 2: attrition when the borders closed because of the pandemic. The 328 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: two 329 00:16:27,460 --> 00:16:31,070 Speaker 2: tourists stopped visiting cambodia and therefore stop visiting orphanages. And 330 00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: during that two years often just also closed down because 331 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,510 Speaker 2: of the lack of funding and now they're also ramping 332 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:39,930 Speaker 2: up awareness. So journalists like myself doing stories like that 333 00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:43,380 Speaker 2: also promote awareness for people. So they're quite confident that 334 00:16:43,390 --> 00:16:44,890 Speaker 2: in the years to come, 335 00:16:45,010 --> 00:16:48,030 Speaker 2: the only orphanages that are left will be the legitimate 336 00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:50,470 Speaker 2: ones that are there to protect Children as the last 337 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,910 Speaker 2: and safety net for kids who need help. That 338 00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: is really good news to hear. Thank you so much 339 00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:58,300 Speaker 1: for taking us to cambodia with those very incredible stories. 340 00:17:02,490 --> 00:17:06,340 Speaker 1: The tv version of Sienna correspondent airs on Sienna every 341 00:17:06,340 --> 00:17:09,449 Speaker 1: Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. You can also catch up with 342 00:17:09,450 --> 00:17:13,180 Speaker 1: them whenever you like on CNN dot asia follow this 343 00:17:13,180 --> 00:17:16,540 Speaker 1: podcast version that takes you behind the scenes with our correspondence. 344 00:17:16,550 --> 00:17:19,500 Speaker 1: So you'll know when a new episode is out. Our 345 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:22,850 Speaker 1: podcast team is made up of Daniel, lee, Christina robert, 346 00:17:22,859 --> 00:17:25,580 Speaker 1: Clara Yong and me, Teresa Tang, thank you very much 347 00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: for listening.