Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Men. Explain. I'm Sonia. And
Speaker 1: today joining me to chat about something that I'm very
Speaker 1: curious about because we are constantly moving into different stages
Speaker 1: of life.
Speaker 1: He's gonna help us better understand how to deal with
Speaker 1: life crisis. And I feel like I'm talking to a
Speaker 1: therapist right now. Please welcome Paul Foster.
Speaker 2: So thank you for having me. Well, I, OK, I
Speaker 2: gotta put my therapist hat on today. Is that right?
Speaker 2: I feel.
Speaker 1: So you've got, you've got a lot of experience. I
Speaker 1: think that's what it is, right? And Paul, please let
Speaker 1: our listeners and viewers know what you're up to recently
Speaker 1: because you need no introduction, you're everywhere you act, you host,
Speaker 1: you do crazy adventurous things. So maybe you can fill
Speaker 1: them in on what you've
Speaker 2: been up to. Ok. Well, I guess the most recent
Speaker 2: project is Kamoi, which we took almost
Speaker 2: two years to shoot. Yeah, it was like, I was
Speaker 2: serving national service again. That was a pretty
Speaker 1: adventurous one. It was
Speaker 2: great. It was great. I was trying to pull you
Speaker 2: in there. One of my, one of my guests, for
Speaker 2: one of my episodes I
Speaker 1: don't think I'll ever survive. Not even a single, be
Speaker 2: surprised.
Speaker 1: I think you have too much faith in me. Truly,
Speaker 1: too much faith in me. But of course, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen you in a while. Yeah. And how has life
Speaker 1: been for you? Just in
Speaker 2: general? I'm always the optimist. I'm always the,
Speaker 2: the glass is half full, rather than half empty. So,
Speaker 2: for me, life is good. I think
Speaker 1: that's what we love about you. Because every single time
Speaker 1: I've met you in any occasion, you've been like a
Speaker 1: ball of energy. You're always fun. You're always laughing and smiling.
Speaker 1: But of course, we also have our own moments where
Speaker 1: we reflect about life and we think and we worry
Speaker 1: and overthink sometimes. Absolutely. In fact, the funny thing was
Speaker 1: the last time I filmed with you was for Let's
Speaker 1: talk about health season one.
Speaker 1: Let's go back there for a little bit. Ok. So
Speaker 1: the episode that we did was actually about the heart
Speaker 1: and you were sharing with me a very personal story
Speaker 1: which then became public information about your own incident and
Speaker 1: your own brushes with health scares. Again.
Speaker 2: Ironically, I was invited onto the show with you guys
Speaker 2: to talk about heart health. But I had happened to
Speaker 2: go through a few kind of early health prescreening prior
Speaker 2: to the to the filming.
Speaker 2: So I did find out obviously that I had some
Speaker 2: blockages in my arteries. We were in the process of
Speaker 2: dealing with that. Although at that point, the cardiologist was like, no,
Speaker 2: it's nothing we have to really worry about yet because
Speaker 2: we need to get your cholesterol down. The main problem
Speaker 2: is cholesterol which is genetic and
Speaker 1: you in your late thirties, right. At that
Speaker 2: point, my early forties. So that when I was 40
Speaker 1: I thought like 39 or
Speaker 2: something, 41 going to 42. I mean, long story short,
Speaker 2: I had to do my invasive angiogram. I had to
Speaker 2: put four stents in two balloons and get my cholesterol
Speaker 2: down in order to, to really resolve this issue. Now
Speaker 2: that I'm younger, healthier
Speaker 2: and that can deal with the recovery now rather than
Speaker 2: doing it post heart attack or when I'm older and
Speaker 2: it takes longer to recover. So,
Speaker 1: yeah, I mean, I did see your stories and you
Speaker 1: did a very detailed breakdown on what happened. We're very
Speaker 1: glad you're all good now and
Speaker 1: I'm sure getting back on track 100% slowly. But it
Speaker 1: also makes you think and wonder the kind of problems
Speaker 1: that you deal with in the different phases of your life.
Speaker 1: I mean, now that you're in your early forties, you
Speaker 1: look back sometimes, I'm sure at your thirties and your twenties,
Speaker 1: the problems are all very different.
Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely. And you know, when we're kids, right, when
Speaker 2: we're in school, you worry
Speaker 1: about what do you worry about your kids?
Speaker 2: Small stuff now that we're older, but when we were
Speaker 2: a kid, they were massive because problems then I know
Speaker 2: you were mediocre and that's why it's so cliche. You
Speaker 2: always see your parents always telling you like, don't worry,
Speaker 2: it's ok. You know, because as a kid you don't
Speaker 2: have to worry about much. To be honest. I
Speaker 1: honestly, I'm ashamed to admit this. But when I was
Speaker 1: in secondary school I wasn't the most academically inclined. Ok?
Speaker 1: I only bucked up like in sector three or something.
Speaker 1: And every time I get back a really bad result,
Speaker 1: I will number one, this is very bad example. But
Speaker 1: back then you always think like, oh my God, I
Speaker 1: could kill myself like I could really. But back then
Speaker 1: when we were experiencing it,
Speaker 1: it almost seems the end of the world,
Speaker 2: it's relative. Our problems in life are relative to what
Speaker 2: phase we are in our life, of course, right? How
Speaker 2: we are living, what's our support network? Like general stuff?
Speaker 2: So like I said as a kid, actually, your parents
Speaker 2: did most of the worrying for you, right? They took
Speaker 2: care of everything you had nothing to really worry about
Speaker 2: except like
Speaker 2: passing school, which is also why this way when you
Speaker 2: literally the end of the world. Oh my goodness. If
Speaker 2: I fail this, I cannot go to uni I can't
Speaker 2: get a good degree, I can't get, it can get
Speaker 2: a good job. No career. Oh my God. And you're
Speaker 2: already thinking over 30 years ahead when actually it's
Speaker 1: OK. Yeah, but of course you move in into your
Speaker 1: twin
Speaker 1: and then things start to evolve a little bit. Right.
Speaker 1: So I think for most of our audience watching this
Speaker 1: right now, you may be in different phases of life.
Speaker 1: I don't know, we get comments coming through and we
Speaker 1: understand that you go through different things sometimes. So in
Speaker 1: your twenties, take us through. What were you worrying about?
Speaker 1: I want to know Paul Foster, by the way, was
Speaker 1: a crazy party guy. I used to see him all
Speaker 1: the time out and about,
Speaker 2: I was, I was, I still can be but I'm
Speaker 2: very selective now. Wow. Twenties. So what was twenties? Twenties
Speaker 2: was just finishing national service going into university trying to
Speaker 2: get my uni degree and then deciding what career am
Speaker 2: I going to get into? What am I going to do?
Speaker 2: And then coming back to Singapore and life for me
Speaker 2: kind of
Speaker 2: played my hand early, right? With the passing of my
Speaker 2: father when I was younger. So that was 1999 I
Speaker 2: was 18 trying to graduate high school. So at one
Speaker 2: phase in my life during high school, it's exams to
Speaker 2: pass my A levels. It's dealing with my father being
Speaker 2: sick and his eventual passing,
Speaker 2: moving house and then preparing to go to national service.
Speaker 2: That's so much five changes at 18 years old. So
Speaker 2: for me, I grew up overnight, I grew up. You
Speaker 2: had to, instantly, I had no choice. I had no choice.
Speaker 2: I had to be there for my mom and my family.
Speaker 2: But I also had to make sure I pass my,
Speaker 2: my exams or else I couldn't get into uni I
Speaker 2: could write. That was my fear. That's right. So, in
Speaker 2: a way, it's again, ironic, I had no choice. Just
Speaker 2: deal with it and just do it, push through now,
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully everything will come good as it goes.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 2: I always look for the blessings. I always look for
Speaker 2: the silver linings.
Speaker 1: But maybe that's why you have developed this mindset.
Speaker 2: I mean, everyone always ask me like, what would you
Speaker 2: change or would you change anything in life or what
Speaker 2: would happen? That's a tough question because it's like if
Speaker 2: it makes you the person you are, would you really
Speaker 2: change anything? But then if I was like, of course,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have one of my father to pass away
Speaker 2: so early. So I had more time with him and
Speaker 2: to learn from him and to,
Speaker 2: to live with him, would I also be the same
Speaker 2: person I am today if that was the case. So
Speaker 2: it's a very tough debate in that sense because I
Speaker 2: think throughout life. So by the way, also throughout life,
Speaker 2: there will always be a crisis.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter whether it's early in the middle or
Speaker 2: at the end, there's always going to be, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be stuff to deal with it, how you deal with it,
Speaker 2: which is the most important thing. So I guess having
Speaker 2: said that navigating through the twenties,
Speaker 2: I was kind of ok already because I already dealt
Speaker 2: with a lot
Speaker 1: early. And don't mind me asking this. Did your friends
Speaker 1: understand or did they not quite get it at
Speaker 2: all? Yes and no, actually, yes and no. Again, great question. It,
Speaker 2: it was kind of like
Speaker 2: Paul gets it right because he's already been there and
Speaker 2: done that. So, for example, I think out of my,
Speaker 2: my friend group, I was the only the second friend
Speaker 2: that had lost a parent early. I had one friend
Speaker 2: earlier than me.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 2: in a way as life has gone on, I've become
Speaker 2: that person that when a parent does pass away, yes,
Speaker 2: people come to me or people ask me to talk
Speaker 2: to another friend, everyone deals with everything differently. But the
Speaker 2: moment someone can come to you and talk to you
Speaker 2: from real life experience, personal experience,
Speaker 2: they have to and listen. Right. OK. Yeah. He, he
Speaker 2: knows what he's talking about, you know, and I get
Speaker 2: it when other friends are trying to help. But for me,
Speaker 2: I think I became that person, that counselor therapist in
Speaker 2: a way, some in your group of friends, right? And
Speaker 2: that spilled across every sphere of life. So I think
Speaker 2: friends did get it. I think I became that really
Speaker 2: grounded friend, that person that would,
Speaker 2: you know, be able to be the light and the dark,
Speaker 2: the black and the white. I was very in the
Speaker 2: middle and able to manage both sides and everything. So
Speaker 1: the thing is having experienced all that at such an
Speaker 1: early age, did your entire phase of your twenties? Did
Speaker 1: you see yourself as someone who could enjoy life a
Speaker 1: lot more or you would enjoy the smaller things in life?
Speaker 1: Oh, I like
Speaker 2: that question too. You know what I mean? I think
Speaker 2: I give you the, the thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm not qualified. I have my own
Speaker 2: problems but we all do, we all do, we all do. No,
Speaker 2: I still think I enjoyed life and I think you
Speaker 2: kind of hit on the head. Exactly. I think I
Speaker 2: enjoyed it even more because I knew how fragile it was.
Speaker 2: I knew that I knew that something could disappear. Not
Speaker 2: just tomorrow. Like today, I
Speaker 2: again, look for all the silver linings and the positives
Speaker 2: and the goods. And I use that as my, as
Speaker 2: my compass to go out and enjoy things and, and again,
Speaker 2: embrace life.
Speaker 1: Paul. Thank you so much for opening up so early
Speaker 1: on in the podcast. I was not expecting that, but
Speaker 1: thank you for digging deep and sharing such a personal
Speaker 1: story because when I look back at my twenties, suddenly
Speaker 1: everything seems so
Speaker 1: redundant to some
Speaker 2: extent. There's never a comparison. Of course, of course, we're
Speaker 2: all different. We all live different lives. But I would
Speaker 2: say on a life journey, we're trying to find out
Speaker 2: who we are, right. We're trying to find out ourselves.
Speaker 2: It happens at different times. So
Speaker 1: actually, it could constantly happen as well.
Speaker 2: We are evolving, right? We're growing, we're learning, but some
Speaker 2: people find our core cells early on, right? Some in
Speaker 2: the middle, some at the end and unfortunately, some
Speaker 2: never really find themselves, but maybe because they're constantly evolving
Speaker 2: and growing. So my question to you was beside you
Speaker 2: thinking your twenties was very redundant now compared to me.
Speaker 2: But how was your twenties? And do you think you
Speaker 2: have found yourself yet?
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, now that you asked me that question,
Speaker 1: I was still in UNI, right? And I was just
Speaker 1: getting started in this industry. So I did uni and
Speaker 1: I think that's actually around about the time that you
Speaker 1: are correct to be honest. So I, wow, ages ago.
Speaker 1: So I was just getting into the media.
Speaker 1: Trust me. I did not know what the heck I
Speaker 1: was doing because in my mind, I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a journalist and I was very sure I was going
Speaker 1: to go back and I was gonna do writing, you know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to maybe be a news journalist at some point.
Speaker 1: It is an industry where you have to figure out
Speaker 1: who you are as soon as possible. And I, I
Speaker 1: do pride myself in that because I think that especially
Speaker 1: as a host and
Speaker 1: a presenter, it's not so much about acting. I suck
Speaker 1: at acting. So it's definitely not one of my strong
Speaker 1: suits just gonna admit it right there. I think that
Speaker 1: essentially in the line that I am in specifically growing
Speaker 1: with me at the same time and that in itself
Speaker 1: is a gift that I get to experience with, with everyone. Yeah, everyone.
Speaker 1: So I was more concerned about my career trajectory because
Speaker 1: I was juggling school and work at the same time.
Speaker 1: And I think it's amazing by the way. Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it again. But
Speaker 1: my immediate worry was how do I pass my exams?
Speaker 1: Do well in my final project, not disappoint my lecturers,
Speaker 1: my parents and at the same time, start this career.
Speaker 1: And I didn't even know whether this career was going
Speaker 1: to take me anywhere because let's be real at that moment.
Speaker 1: I was just doing it like for fun, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that it was gonna be a full time thing
Speaker 1: once I graduated, you know, it was just like throw
Speaker 1: it out there and see where it takes me kind
Speaker 1: of situation. So those were the things I was concerned
Speaker 1: about and I'm a natural
Speaker 1: competitive person. So I definitely want to really grab the
Speaker 1: opportunities that came my way. I was very fortunate to
Speaker 1: have very supportive parents, both my parents came from media.
Speaker 1: So they've always been like, ok, you do, you pursue
Speaker 1: your dreams kind of thing? They've always been so supportive,
Speaker 1: which I'm eternally grateful for because wouldn't be here without
Speaker 1: them as well. So, yeah, those were the things I
Speaker 1: was concerned
Speaker 2: about and I think I like to think of life
Speaker 2: as
Speaker 2: in little bonuses. So when you said, like, you weren't
Speaker 2: expecting anything but what a bonus it's become. Exactly because
Speaker 2: it's like,
Speaker 2: I also feel like, have no expectations so that everything
Speaker 2: that you do earn and receive is a bonus.
Speaker 1: Was that a quote from Spiderman? Expect disappointment from our producer?
Speaker 1: Expect disappointed, disappointment. And you won't be disappointed. Wow! Ok.
Speaker 2: That's a little
Speaker 1: dark. But yeah,
Speaker 2: but you get my same similar, similar. And for those
Speaker 2: of you watching, if you don't, if you don't know
Speaker 2: how Sonia started,
Speaker 2: she actually joined the radio DJ contest the competition and
Speaker 2: her mentor was Ross and Ross is a very old
Speaker 2: dear friend of mine.
Speaker 1: And so you became one of the first friends in
Speaker 1: the media that I met.
Speaker 2: Yes, because of the mentor mentee relationship. And then I
Speaker 2: voted for Sonia because I was listening, I was listening
Speaker 2: to her when they were, you know, putting them on
Speaker 2: air to, I used to test them, put a
Speaker 1: knife to your head and you better vote for my,
Speaker 2: she offered me a meal, which is also good because yeah,
Speaker 2: but so I, I had recognized you already earlier this
Speaker 2: girl got something. Yeah. So, so you did, she did
Speaker 2: earn her spot. You
Speaker 1: see, without the kind of support that I had with, I,
Speaker 1: with everything, like strangers, people, I didn't even know, wouldn't
Speaker 1: be here. But of course, in my twenties I was
Speaker 1: also thinking about a lot of relationship stuff. I don't
Speaker 1: know about. You. Did you have a,
Speaker 1: a lot of, like, dating sort of situation?
Speaker 2: And I'm a very committed long term relationship guy. So
Speaker 2: I had a lot of long term relationships. So
Speaker 1: you're a serious relationship in a way.
Speaker 2: But when I'm single, oh, here we go. Single. So
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that. Right. So let me see when
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties. So during like, during uni
Speaker 2: was like one long term girlfriend and then early to
Speaker 2: mid two thousands
Speaker 2: became single, 2006. And then, yeah. And then I was
Speaker 2: doing all the, so I was modeling back then as
Speaker 2: well and working on my first, we need to
Speaker 1: put in a like modeling days right now.
Speaker 2: Well, long time ago and starting my first business back then.
Speaker 2: Um and then doing the modeling pr stuff like the
Speaker 2: pr at the clubs, taking care of all the models
Speaker 2: that were coming for dinners and parties.
Speaker 2: So that was my life, right? It was like vibrant, yeah,
Speaker 2: partying like 34 times a week hustling like that was
Speaker 2: a real hustle day. You had to go out and
Speaker 2: work you had to do the events you had to
Speaker 2: do
Speaker 2: to take all the jobs, the network. So pre social media, right.
Speaker 2: So I always cut myself very lucky too that I
Speaker 2: came from the analog days, I came from analog transition
Speaker 2: through to the digital. So I kind of had the
Speaker 2: best of both worlds. And you just, you had to
Speaker 2: work there 20 almost 20 years ago. A lot of
Speaker 2: people that we were working with are now in
Speaker 2: positions where they're making the decisions. They're the ones that are.
Speaker 2: You want to book Paul. Ok. Just, just, just hire him.
Speaker 2: Don't need to see the rest because we develop that
Speaker 2: working relationship and a personal relationship from that long ago.
Speaker 2: Like you want to work with someone good. I know
Speaker 2: this guy is good, get him and it's nice. It's,
Speaker 2: it's come full circle. I live in full circle. So
Speaker 1: basically what you're saying is what you experience in
Speaker 1: twenties would have probably paid off in your late twenties
Speaker 1: or early thirties or to your mid
Speaker 2: 3100%. Exactly 100%. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 1: So that is, that is, that's the journey. That's a journey.
Speaker 2: Go out, meet people, you know, establish good relationships, stay
Speaker 1: out and do it while you can survive on two
Speaker 1: hours of sleep.
Speaker 2: Have fun, you can on two hours of sleep, you
Speaker 2: can work very hard later in life. People. Like, actually
Speaker 2: I remembered what we used to do. So they would
Speaker 2: be good to have to, to, to do a travel show.
Speaker 2: For example, it's
Speaker 1: very demanding, by the way, just letting you all know
Speaker 1: you would know too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: people see 45 minutes of a show that we
Speaker 1: always travel for work. So
Speaker 2: fun, five days straight on pushing 12 to 16 hours
Speaker 2: a day traveling and filming. Not easy but fulfilling. So
Speaker 2: fulfilling and so much fun.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'd say in the twenties is the time
Speaker 2: you hustle hustle, make those relationships have fun. Enjoy. I
Speaker 2: think that's a really crucial time. Figure out what do
Speaker 2: you like? What don't you like? Develop your moral compass?
Speaker 2: You know, which we've already up until then always developing.
Speaker 2: But really, I think that's a time when you're now
Speaker 2: a mature inverted commerce. Hopefully because you know, you're all right.
Speaker 2: 21 you're an adult.
Speaker 2: You're now in the real world. Yeah. Your real sets
Speaker 2: of problems and life is gonna hit you now you
Speaker 2: need to go out and do you need to go
Speaker 2: and do that shit you
Speaker 1: need to do. So hopefully how we are looking at
Speaker 1: it now after this conversation is your twenties, the hustling years,
Speaker 1: hopefully your thirties might be like reaping some rewards in
Speaker 1: some way and you've done some growing up. How
Speaker 2: would you describe your thirties?
Speaker 2: No, I'd say you start to reap the rewards, but
Speaker 2: I still feel in the thirties you still have to still,
Speaker 2: that's still that next hustle, I think 30 to 35. So,
Speaker 2: how
Speaker 1: do you get to the next level? What you mean? Right. Yes. Exactly. So,
Speaker 1: and people have the pressure of, like, I need to
Speaker 1: be in a stable relationship or, like, because it's not
Speaker 1: just about career. Yeah. It's also about
Speaker 1: the societal pressures. Like, I know. Ok. So, when I
Speaker 1: was in Singapore, exactly, when I was in my early
Speaker 1: twenties and I had colleagues or friends who were in
Speaker 1: their early thirties, they would start to worry because they
Speaker 1: see the rest of their group getting married or getting
Speaker 1: engaged or like starting to have their first kid and
Speaker 1: they're like, stressing like, oh, like I should be there again.
Speaker 2: No. Right or wrong, right. Some focus on career, some
Speaker 2: focus on family. The amazing people do both. And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: like that's, that's awesome.
Speaker 2: But I still feel there's no right or wrong there
Speaker 1: isn't. But I still feel like there's a bit of
Speaker 1: difference sometimes between men and women. I don't know if you,
Speaker 1: if you agree, of course. But for women, I do
Speaker 1: notice them stressing out over, they look at different phases
Speaker 1: of life as like I should be starting a family.
Speaker 1: I should be doing this then. What about my career? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure as a,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about that? What do you worry
Speaker 1: about biologically,
Speaker 2: biologically, men are very lucky. We don't have to worry
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: But emotionally men suppress themselves a lot more.
Speaker 2: Yes. Or have the stigma that they shouldn't be showing emotion,
Speaker 2: which is now changing a bit, you know, everything's changing,
Speaker 2: which is nice. I mean, you touched on mental health earlier. So,
Speaker 2: yeah, there's always stigmas but that's from society
Speaker 1: and all these worries that you have affect your life
Speaker 1: choices sometimes.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely. But I, I get it, but I don't
Speaker 2: think it's fair. Look as a guy, I'm going to
Speaker 2: say I feel it's much easier just I'm just putting
Speaker 2: out there from my perspective and point of view. Again,
Speaker 2: everyone has to figure out what they want and how
Speaker 2: they want to do it. I also believe that if
Speaker 2: you just, if you just do you
Speaker 2: and don't go out and maliciously want to hurt someone
Speaker 2: or do anything bad so on and so forth, then, ok,
Speaker 2: like life is good. Right? So, yeah, I think it
Speaker 2: can be hard. I think when you're seeing and again, comparing,
Speaker 2: I always don't
Speaker 1: compare it. A thief of happiness.
Speaker 2: The grass is always greener like, you know, and for me,
Speaker 2: so this is one of my philosophies. I never compare
Speaker 2: like equal or
Speaker 1: up. Right.
Speaker 2: Never because there's always going to be someone that has
Speaker 2: a better life than you in. Some. Come on.
Speaker 1: Paul in media industry is even more amplified because it
Speaker 1: could be, there's gonna be another handsomer younger, right? More
Speaker 1: jacked up guy than me. Like coming to the industry,
Speaker 1: going after the
Speaker 2: same segment. Right. They're getting all the work. How come
Speaker 2: they're working so much? I've never been the jealous type
Speaker 2: to be like
Speaker 1: that. No good on you. Because I think that is
Speaker 1: one of the toxic traits of this industry. Really people
Speaker 1: looking
Speaker 2: without pointing too many
Speaker 1: fingers. Yeah, exactly. It is a toxic trade. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you can't also blame people for feeling this way because
Speaker 1: I get it. It is a natural human
Speaker 2: reaction. Everyone has to eat, everyone has to earn and
Speaker 2: you can't do every job.
Speaker 2: So you should be happy for our colleagues. I never,
Speaker 2: and I've never looked at anyone as competition. I feel
Speaker 2: everyone is my counterpart and colleague because
Speaker 1: we are enough things to go and we have our
Speaker 2: we there is so much but you have to hustle
Speaker 2: to go and get it. Maybe if
Speaker 2: not getting enough, maybe you not hustling enough to some
Speaker 2: extent
Speaker 1: is probably the king of hustlers like I see him.
Speaker 1: You can be like here and then you're there and
Speaker 1: suddenly my ig feed or like you're doing something I
Speaker 1: think also
Speaker 2: doing something right? You always doing something. I wanna do something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So never, I never compare up. But what I do
Speaker 2: is I compare down and what I mean by that
Speaker 2: is I do a lot of charity work. I do
Speaker 2: a lot of volunteer work.
Speaker 2: So I always compared myself down this person. I'm building
Speaker 2: a house for this person and his family because they
Speaker 2: don't have a house, they don't have a roof over
Speaker 2: their heads, which is one of our basic needs in life.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 2: that for me is something huge. They can maybe eat
Speaker 2: once a day, twice a day, maybe not even three
Speaker 2: square meals a day. We can eat whatever we want
Speaker 2: whenever we want. We have privilege. A lot of people
Speaker 2: think they don't have privilege, but we have a lot
Speaker 2: of privileges being here doing what
Speaker 1: we do and just being born in Singapore for
Speaker 2: already, right? In general terms. So I always compare down
Speaker 2: and there's so many more people that don't have anything
Speaker 2: compared to us. So therefore life is good.
Speaker 1: Exactly. You brought up a really good point. Do you
Speaker 1: think that the solution to
Speaker 1: dealing with crisis in different phases of life is to
Speaker 1: ground yourself in this manner and to get perspective? Because
Speaker 1: I see that you've gotten so much perspective from your
Speaker 1: charity work helping be it, animals, humans, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Because then you get that beautiful perspective on life and
Speaker 1: suddenly your problems in any phase of life, it disappears.
Speaker 2: Small shrink shrink. Yes,
Speaker 2: I think being grounded is key, being grounded is finding yourself.
Speaker 2: So I think also the first thing to do is
Speaker 2: really find yourself, there's no right or wrong. You need
Speaker 2: to figure it out. But things will happen in your
Speaker 2: life that will help you figure it out and whether
Speaker 2: you embrace it, whether you avoid it or whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: will help you. And I always say, I think you
Speaker 2: need to love yourself first and know yourself first before
Speaker 2: you can
Speaker 2: then help others and be of use to others and
Speaker 2: have this
Speaker 2: selfless service to others, which is what I managed to
Speaker 2: find quite early on, which is great
Speaker 1: because I also always believe in the whole concept of
Speaker 1: charity starts at home. Because if you're not even kind
Speaker 1: to the people in your inner circle, what's the point
Speaker 1: of going out there and doing charity
Speaker 2: work? Right? And again, doing it, selfless, selflessly
Speaker 1: without any expectations
Speaker 2: but not doing it for the gram. Yeah. You know,
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 1: completely agree. Oh my gosh, you don't.
Speaker 1: What irks me is that, I mean, it's good that
Speaker 1: everyone good to try and do. Yes. But, but I
Speaker 1: feel like when there's so much publicity around it, I
Speaker 1: also question why this person is doing ok. But now
Speaker 1: that's a, that's a whole other thing all together. But
Speaker 1: this is interesting because we saw a study that showed
Speaker 1: potential signs of a life crisis. And I'm gonna read
Speaker 1: some of these symptoms out to you. You tell me
Speaker 1: whether you think you've experienced it or you think that
Speaker 1: is a sign of a life crisis. So the first
Speaker 1: one
Speaker 1: having a lot of regrets and a drop, a drop
Speaker 1: in life satisfaction. Have you ever felt like I regret
Speaker 1: not doing this? I regret not doing
Speaker 2: that. That's also quite hard. I want to say no,
Speaker 2: because I have thought I've lived my life to the
Speaker 2: fullest and enjoyed everything.
Speaker 2: But I think there's always a at some point you
Speaker 2: there's always a seed of doubt somewhere that's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I think for me that regret is, for example,
Speaker 2: I can off the top of my head bring up
Speaker 2: right now, missed property investment opportunities. OK? For example, for example,
Speaker 2: even though I've done well in it, I've missed a
Speaker 2: few that I was like, you know what if only
Speaker 2: I had, wow, but
Speaker 2: it's like it's OK because you can still do more
Speaker 2: and you still make the most of what you have.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that maybe that's one example,
Speaker 1: regrets and the next one is increased sadness and mood
Speaker 1: changes where you give up on your goals and you
Speaker 1: feel less motivated or no, you ever not felt. I
Speaker 1: feel like you've always been quite a self motivated.
Speaker 2: I think that's what's got me through life. To be
Speaker 2: quite honest,
Speaker 2: it does link having that again, that confidence and motivation
Speaker 2: and striving and that hustle and going and then not
Speaker 2: just for yourself, but for others, I think that's helped
Speaker 2: me define my life journey.
Speaker 2: So I want to say no for that one, which
Speaker 2: is probably a good
Speaker 1: one. Yeah. Yeah, I I don't disagree. It's a No,
Speaker 1: for me as well. Generally I am quite motivated, I
Speaker 1: would say also because I do wanna provide a good
Speaker 1: life for my family. And to me sometimes like there's
Speaker 1: no wrong in wanting a better life for yourself. So
Speaker 1: if that's what motivates you go for it, I love that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there is nothing wrong with, there is not a better
Speaker 1: life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, people are afraid to admit it because
Speaker 1: we're in a sometimes Asian society. Maybe I'd be a
Speaker 1: bit more modest spontaneous decision making. Unfortunately, this one, I
Speaker 1: have to say I am a little bit guilty of this. Ok.
Speaker 1: I do slip into phases of life where I do
Speaker 1: make regrettable decisions. Like, I don't know, like I binge
Speaker 1: party binge
Speaker 2: drink, but you acknowledge it.
Speaker 1: I do, I do, I recognize it.
Speaker 2: And do you learn from it? I learn
Speaker 1: from it but sometimes it happens again and I wonder why.
Speaker 1: So please share your wisdom. You've been through this phase.
Speaker 2: I want out of this phase. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: I can back. Yeah. And I think that's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a gray area again. Where, what is life
Speaker 2: if it isn't sporadic? Right? I think, I think it's
Speaker 2: nice to have a plan. I think it's nice to
Speaker 2: be diligent. I think it's nice to
Speaker 2: know what you want and how you want to do it.
Speaker 2: But life should also be spontaneous. Like, so you should
Speaker 2: have fun and do things and sometimes it requires that,
Speaker 2: that I'm gonna, I'm gonna book a holiday, a trip
Speaker 2: tomorrow or
Speaker 1: mine is mine is let's get messed up today.
Speaker 2: Also fun. And you know what? Go get messed up, right?
Speaker 2: Are you OK? If I can quickly bring up a
Speaker 2: story about this so early on in my career also,
Speaker 2: when I was still doing all the partying and everything
Speaker 2: and we had lots of fun and my TV presence
Speaker 2: was starting to come on the road.
Speaker 2: Yes. So it would happen. People would literally come to
Speaker 2: me like you should be a little bit more careful. Now.
Speaker 2: You don't drink so much, you know, someone, someone take
Speaker 2: picture or video of you even worse. Right. Right back then.
Speaker 2: Still not so bad. Not so bad. Right? Because of
Speaker 2: this is, and I was like, you know what? But
Speaker 2: this is my life.
Speaker 2: I can do whatever I want. As long as I'm
Speaker 2: not hurting anyone, I always ask who hasn't had that happen.
Speaker 2: If you haven't vomited from drinking too much on a
Speaker 2: really big party out. You have not, you have not
Speaker 2: lived life but it does happen. Of course. But because,
Speaker 2: but we're having fun. We're with our trusted group of
Speaker 2: friends partying. Yeah. Sometimes you just, you have that one,
Speaker 2: too many drink or you mix too many drinks, right?
Speaker 2: And I still feel there should have been, there should
Speaker 2: be no shame in that. There should be nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with
Speaker 1: that. I feel like sometimes when I look at the
Speaker 1: times that I, well, I really feel like I'm in
Speaker 1: a therapy session right now. When I look at the
Speaker 1: times that I go haywire or I'm a little unhinged,
Speaker 1: I do feel like extreme guilt after that. You know,
Speaker 1: because you're always like, oh, why did I do that?
Speaker 1: And also I guess it's the post alcohol, depression feeling
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 1: I think it's a scientific more being
Speaker 2: hung over. That's the regret the next day.
Speaker 1: And then the chemicals in your body. I feel like
Speaker 2: why do I do this to myself?
Speaker 1: Regret? Then I feel like I'm in a crisis. I
Speaker 1: definitely feel that way. But at the same time
Speaker 1: I feel that for a lot of people who have
Speaker 1: control in most parts of their life, maybe that's just
Speaker 1: their way of letting loose. I'm not gonna have control
Speaker 1: over this one. I'm just gonna have
Speaker 2: fun. Yeah. So, and there's nothing, again, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with having fun. I think people should see it that
Speaker 2: way
Speaker 2: rather than the negative. That is true.
Speaker 1: That is true. So then leading from that and going
Speaker 1: into being, say, irritated with life choices or relationships and all.
Speaker 1: Have you ever found yourself in a situation where at
Speaker 1: a different phase, perhaps
Speaker 1: you were frustrated with your dating life or your relationships
Speaker 1: or it's not where you wanted it to be because
Speaker 1: that could also be another sign of, am I, am
Speaker 1: I in the right place of my life right now.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: a lot of my relationships early on as well
Speaker 2: kind of didn't work out because we, we started to
Speaker 2: grow
Speaker 2: and split our tangents
Speaker 1: just don't convert. That's wrong.
Speaker 2: Right. We all again growing and developing at different times.
Speaker 2: I think the hard part is figuring out that perhaps
Speaker 2: you're not, maybe
Speaker 2: meant to be with someone or that maybe the relationship
Speaker 2: has run its course and maybe letting go of each
Speaker 2: other is the best thing to do so that you
Speaker 2: can both work on yourselves and grow at the pace
Speaker 2: at the pace that you're growing at rather than
Speaker 2: kind of holding back a little bit or being pulled
Speaker 2: back even unintentionally but being pulled back because you're not
Speaker 2: growing at that same rate. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I think you brought up a good point because sometimes
Speaker 1: with a relationship with an age gap or a bigger
Speaker 1: age gap, it does feel like the younger person has
Speaker 1: to play some catch up and it is the older
Speaker 2: has to slow down
Speaker 1: which and sometimes I worry like
Speaker 1: is my partner already at a place where he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to deal with this shit anymore, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: do my shit anymore, you know, so I better go
Speaker 1: up faster. That's the
Speaker 2: feeling. But I also think, say for example, from 30
Speaker 2: to 20 is also very different from 40 to 30
Speaker 2: I think it becomes closer, the gap shortens closer, the
Speaker 2: older we get because again, we start to establish ourselves
Speaker 2: in our career, we start to figure ourselves out more.
Speaker 2: So I know, I feel like every relationship you're in,
Speaker 2: you should always be looking out for a better relationship.
Speaker 2: If the last one didn't work for whatever reasons, the
Speaker 2: next one shouldn't have any of those reasons. Like you're
Speaker 2: trying to
Speaker 1: eliminate the ones, the things that you're not happy
Speaker 2: about. That's right. So, and I feel as you get
Speaker 2: older and you find this person or these people, if you're,
Speaker 2: if you're still figuring it out,
Speaker 2: you start to start to know. Ok. Yeah. And no
Speaker 2: one has the perfect relationship. There's always gonna be pros
Speaker 2: and cons and stuff like that. But that's life as well.
Speaker 2: You deal with it and you make the best of
Speaker 2: what you have
Speaker 1: and what about now in your current relationship status? Yes. Like,
Speaker 1: what do you feel is your biggest lesson in this
Speaker 1: point on? Biggest learning point?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Learning point.
Speaker 2: I'm coming up to five years, five years. This is
Speaker 2: like the, besides my uni relationship when we were living
Speaker 2: overseas and having our own home to live in. This
Speaker 2: is also the first relationship where we've also had our
Speaker 2: own home. I think having that space is important, having
Speaker 2: a partner that can spend time and do a lot
Speaker 2: of things with, but
Speaker 1: also do things on your own. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also is very important.
Speaker 2: You have to acknowledge that space, finding someone that you
Speaker 2: can really match with as much as possible. Yes, I
Speaker 2: think that helps a lot. That's why I
Speaker 1: wonder why people always say opposites attract.
Speaker 1: I want, this needs to be another episode by the way. Also.
Speaker 1: I mean, now that we're on the topic of relationships,
Speaker 1: you know, before we wrap up this whole conversation,
Speaker 1: I mean, when I look back at all my relationships
Speaker 1: from when I was, I don't know, 18, all the
Speaker 1: way till now, like what a journey because what I
Speaker 1: wanted when I was in my twenties or what I
Speaker 1: thought I wanted is different from what I want now. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense and
Speaker 2: you still have so much of your journey left, I
Speaker 2: so do I but you know, we do, right? I
Speaker 2: love how at one point we were talking,
Speaker 2: it was just like midlife crisis stuff. I'm like midlife,
Speaker 2: I'm 42 average average, right? If we hit the 80
Speaker 2: to 100. So
Speaker 1: I'm curious where that phrase even came up mid life
Speaker 1: crisis like that. Who was the first one that came
Speaker 1: up with this so
Speaker 2: negative? Because again, like I mentioned earlier, our whole life
Speaker 2: is filled with crisis to be really honest,
Speaker 2: whether it's big or small, but it's all how you
Speaker 2: deal with it. I've seen people crumble and gone down
Speaker 2: a very dark path after a crisis
Speaker 2: and I've seen others embrace it and come out on
Speaker 2: the lighter side
Speaker 2: again. There's no right or wrong. We will never know
Speaker 2: how to deal with something until you're literally standing face
Speaker 2: to face with it. But I think dealing with it
Speaker 2: is the most important that's easier said than done. I know.
Speaker 2: But you have to, I
Speaker 1: think if there's anything that I would share to wrap up,
Speaker 1: that that entire section is aside from having the mental
Speaker 1: grid to pull yourself up, which is tough because sometimes
Speaker 1: you're like in such a dark place, you just don't
Speaker 1: know how to get out.
Speaker 1: Your immediate inner circle needs to be so strong support
Speaker 1: because without them, you're probably going to find it a
Speaker 1: lot harder to climb out of a crisis. Be it
Speaker 1: midlife crisis, quarter life crisis or whatever crisis it may be.
Speaker 1: If you've got that tight inner circle, I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna make it so much easier for you to come
Speaker 1: on the other side.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you? So if you had to face
Speaker 2: an issue or problem, do you try to deal with
Speaker 2: it first and internalize it?
Speaker 2: Take a moment however long it takes before maybe seeking
Speaker 2: advice or counsel?
Speaker 1: OK. That's me. And I felt like you're gonna ask
Speaker 1: that question because I know some people who immediately like guys,
Speaker 1: I need help. Like because growing up, I would only
Speaker 1: have my parents to confide in if I had anything wrong.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't used to the concept of like having
Speaker 1: siblings or big groups of friends to confide in.
Speaker 1: So growing up, I realized that I would try and
Speaker 1: solve the problem first. Actually. Likewise with some problems that
Speaker 1: I faced at work, you know, joking my partner. Right.
Speaker 2: So he's a big problem. I know
Speaker 1: I didn't see that one coming
Speaker 1: problem. That problem. That's you. Definitely, because we've been partners
Speaker 1: for a while and we know of each other's lives
Speaker 1: and problems that we see each other almost every day
Speaker 1: because of the show. If there's anything that's bothering us,
Speaker 1: it will have to come out because it will affect
Speaker 1: the show for sure. Yes. Right. So, we would have
Speaker 1: to confine each other. He
Speaker 1: knows that I'm the sort that would keep quiet about
Speaker 1: something like as long as I can until I solve
Speaker 1: it and be like, can you tell you ok, this happened?
Speaker 1: But it's all good now and he's like, what you
Speaker 1: get it from me for like, days. Did you even?
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just how I deal with the crisis.
Speaker 1: But that,
Speaker 2: that's me too. That's you as well. I actually find
Speaker 2: it
Speaker 2: one level deeper than you. I find it actually
Speaker 2: much harder to reach out. I don't like to people
Speaker 2: down in a way. So, but, but if I really, really,
Speaker 2: really cannot solve and I really, really, really need help advice.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, I would seek counsel. There's never
Speaker 2: a right or wrong. I think as long as you
Speaker 2: are able to solve and, and move forward and embrace
Speaker 2: and everything,
Speaker 2: I guess it doesn't really matter which way you do it,
Speaker 2: but you need to figure it out. Yeah. And, and,
Speaker 2: and hopefully you figure out in the best way possible. Yes.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for sharing so much with us on
Speaker 1: this show. I became like a real therapy section.
Speaker 2: We have enough time. We can a whole series of
Speaker 2: just this
Speaker 1: whole series. Exactly. Now we got a few spin off
Speaker 1: episodes as well.
Speaker 1: Is this really attract this one? Please take
Speaker 2: no problem.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for listening to this
Speaker 1: episode of men. Explain. We hope you enjoyed
Speaker 2: it. And if you love this episode, please hit the
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