1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,259 Speaker 1: this is a C. N. A podcast 2 00:00:04,740 --> 00:00:08,090 Speaker 1: in Singapore. The vast majority of adults have accepted the 3 00:00:08,090 --> 00:00:10,950 Speaker 1: vaccination gets us out of the worst that covid 19 4 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: can throw at us. Vaccinations were less likely to suffer 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,650 Speaker 1: severely or die every catch Covid. And with high vaccination nationally, 6 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: rules can be relaxed. We can go out, we can 7 00:00:21,050 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: eat out exercise in the gym. Now even play sports 8 00:00:24,140 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: today, we turn to a group that might soon get 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,550 Speaker 1: the chance to get a covid vaccine. Children age 5 10 00:00:29,550 --> 00:00:33,169 Speaker 1: to 11 to number hundreds of thousands in Singapore vaccination 11 00:00:33,170 --> 00:00:36,390 Speaker 1: for young Children is now becoming a distinct possibility here. 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,460 Speaker 1: After the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 13 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: approved the use of the Pfizer biontech Covid vaccine for 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,830 Speaker 1: this group. In early november, the european Union announced it 15 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: will be making a decision 16 00:00:47,540 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: On the same issue next Wednesday November 24 17 00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:55,500 Speaker 1: now, Singapore has already placed orders for pediatric vaccines and 18 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:57,650 Speaker 1: trouser underway at Kicking hospital. 19 00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:00,940 Speaker 1: The Multi Ministry task force has also said it will 20 00:01:00,940 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: announce its decision later this month. Yet among parents who 21 00:01:04,490 --> 00:01:07,270 Speaker 1: did not hesitate in getting the vaccine for themselves. There 22 00:01:07,270 --> 00:01:09,310 Speaker 1: seems to be a niggling fear a kind of hand 23 00:01:09,310 --> 00:01:11,610 Speaker 1: wringing about doing the scene for their young ones amid 24 00:01:11,610 --> 00:01:15,530 Speaker 1: a backdrop of clinical trials showing some level of successful outcomes. 25 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:17,459 Speaker 1: So today I want to find out 26 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,780 Speaker 1: what does the detail inside say exactly 27 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,870 Speaker 1: and do parents see this differently compared to their own 28 00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: decisions to get the jab. What are the pros and 29 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,370 Speaker 1: cons should a parent choose to? We didn't see. We 30 00:01:29,370 --> 00:01:31,750 Speaker 1: pulled our instagram followers to find out how many will 31 00:01:31,750 --> 00:01:34,180 Speaker 1: get their kids back is needed and what they're thinking 32 00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:36,500 Speaker 1: was So stay tuned to the end of this episode 33 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:38,260 Speaker 1: to find out how they voted. 34 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to heart of the matter and I'm Lynn soothing. 35 00:01:42,090 --> 00:01:45,590 Speaker 1: It's thursday november 18 10 a.m. And calling in to 36 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:49,100 Speaker 1: talk about the issues of child vaccination. Today are dr 37 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:53,639 Speaker 1: lim young shin pediatrician at Thompson pediatric center. Hi hello 38 00:01:53,650 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Ashley ST john associate professor at Duke and US medical School. 39 00:01:57,210 --> 00:01:58,660 Speaker 1: Hi thanks for having me. 40 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,940 Speaker 1: And sure you're saying chief operating officer at a local 41 00:02:01,940 --> 00:02:05,490 Speaker 1: Fintech company and mother of three. Everybody. So guys, I 42 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:08,690 Speaker 1: just want to start by getting your quick reactions when 43 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:11,790 Speaker 1: the U. S. Authorized the use of the Pfizer biontech 44 00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:15,290 Speaker 1: Covid vaccine a couple of weeks back for kids aged 45 00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:18,980 Speaker 1: 5 to 11. What was your immediate reaction? Because we're 46 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:22,660 Speaker 1: probably anticipating similar moves to be taken here in Singapore. 47 00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:25,010 Speaker 1: What's your sense to Sherri? I'll be honest. Last year 48 00:02:25,010 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: when they announced that they got the 12 year olds 49 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,010 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated, I'm just really glad my son was 50 00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:30,940 Speaker 1: 11 so I didn't have to make the call as 51 00:02:30,940 --> 00:02:34,230 Speaker 1: to whether I was entirely comfortable with him doing because 52 00:02:34,230 --> 00:02:37,500 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of information misinformation. So I'm 53 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,870 Speaker 1: always grateful for I guess podcast like that where we 54 00:02:39,870 --> 00:02:41,410 Speaker 1: can you know, talk to people who are actually in 55 00:02:41,410 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: the know 56 00:02:42,139 --> 00:02:44,060 Speaker 1: from a doctor's point of view? I have two heads 57 00:02:44,060 --> 00:02:46,750 Speaker 1: to where I'm a parent as well as the doctor. 58 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,130 Speaker 1: It's important that we do vaccinate as far as we can. 59 00:02:50,139 --> 00:02:52,820 Speaker 1: But we kind of need to also justify this. Does 60 00:02:52,820 --> 00:02:55,620 Speaker 1: this benefit? So I think it's good overall that we 61 00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:57,460 Speaker 1: can have a vaccine that can protect 62 00:02:57,940 --> 00:02:58,950 Speaker 1: all ages. 63 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,890 Speaker 1: There's a lot of anxiety on the ground of how 64 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:02,810 Speaker 1: to protect the little ones because we're getting more and 65 00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:05,300 Speaker 1: more cases in Singapore for the little ones as well. 66 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,130 Speaker 1: It's good that we have one. But for me I 67 00:03:07,130 --> 00:03:09,290 Speaker 1: probably want to wait a little while to get more 68 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:12,860 Speaker 1: data before we pull out any vaccine mandate. I was 69 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:16,149 Speaker 1: relieved as a researcher because looking at the data, 70 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,530 Speaker 1: it really showed that there are very few adverse events 71 00:03:19,530 --> 00:03:21,459 Speaker 1: that those that existed were 72 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: very mild and things that are reasonable to deal with 73 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,190 Speaker 1: the vaccine that are signs of your immune system working. 74 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,889 Speaker 1: It allows us to protect a segment of the population 75 00:03:29,889 --> 00:03:33,279 Speaker 1: that had nothing. I was really relieved to see that 76 00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:36,100 Speaker 1: from the standpoint of looking at the data Terry, I 77 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: think the litmus test is you've got three kids 49 78 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: and 11. 79 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: Well, you'll be vaccinating your first two if authorities here 80 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,250 Speaker 1: proof the use of the covid vaccine for kids H 81 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: 5 to 11 and presumably also your youngest if he 82 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,650 Speaker 1: becomes eligible for it next year. Well I will say 83 00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:55,590 Speaker 1: that I think I have no issues with my 11. 84 00:03:55,590 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about it before. He's really excited 85 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. Why? Because he has to go out 86 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,140 Speaker 1: with his friends and have lunch. He sees it kind 87 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:05,540 Speaker 1: of like an access card that gives you ability to 88 00:04:05,540 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: do things. So I think I would 89 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: My nine year old too. 90 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,610 Speaker 1: But I mean I will qualify that the two of 91 00:04:10,610 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: them have never had vaccination issues. All the vaccines have 92 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,460 Speaker 1: taken so far, 93 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,740 Speaker 1: they have never had an adverse reaction. I know my 94 00:04:17,740 --> 00:04:21,510 Speaker 1: friends who are cautious actually, it's really because their Children 95 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,900 Speaker 1: have had not the smoothest vaccination. Right? So for them 96 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: I can understand the apprehension. So for me, I would 97 00:04:28,610 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: purely from an access point of view. I also think 98 00:04:31,529 --> 00:04:32,860 Speaker 1: Covid is kind of everywhere. 99 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:35,460 Speaker 1: You know, there are thousands of cases every day. We've 100 00:04:35,460 --> 00:04:36,860 Speaker 1: had close friends who've had Covid, 101 00:04:37,140 --> 00:04:40,219 Speaker 1: my cousins had Covid. It's getting closer and closer to home. 102 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:41,950 Speaker 1: My four year old, I don't know. I'm waiting to 103 00:04:41,950 --> 00:04:44,820 Speaker 1: see what the mandate is. I'm waiting to see what 104 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:47,219 Speaker 1: the data says. I'm going to see what I guess 105 00:04:47,230 --> 00:04:50,380 Speaker 1: other parents decide and kind of see his five. I 106 00:04:50,380 --> 00:04:51,980 Speaker 1: don't know. He's four going to five. So he'd be 107 00:04:51,980 --> 00:04:54,469 Speaker 1: like really at the early tail and the last one. 108 00:04:54,470 --> 00:04:56,090 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I wanted to. I think I'll 109 00:04:56,089 --> 00:04:56,660 Speaker 1: be okay. 110 00:04:56,940 --> 00:05:00,750 Speaker 1: So actually as the infectious disease expert in this zoom room. 111 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,619 Speaker 1: What happened to the earlier advice from health care authorities 112 00:05:03,620 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: reassuring parents that kids on at risk at getting super 113 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,979 Speaker 1: sick or dying from covid and therefore in the early 114 00:05:09,980 --> 00:05:12,620 Speaker 1: stages of rolling out the vaccine, it's okay if they 115 00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:16,710 Speaker 1: can't take a vaccine. What's changed that assessment? Probably nothing 116 00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: has changed the assessment. It's definitely true that if you 117 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,529 Speaker 1: look at the overall rates of risk for developing severe covid, 118 00:05:23,529 --> 00:05:26,900 Speaker 1: Children are certainly at lower risk than adults for developing 119 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,700 Speaker 1: severe covid themselves. But that doesn't mean that there's not 120 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:33,660 Speaker 1: a potential of preventing those rare events of developing severe 121 00:05:33,660 --> 00:05:37,589 Speaker 1: covid or other complications of covid. So, Children have a 122 00:05:37,589 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: special complication of this multi system inflammatory disease that can 123 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,250 Speaker 1: happen six weeks after 124 00:05:44,339 --> 00:05:49,570 Speaker 1: A covid. approx. Well, that's extremely rare. Less than .1% 125 00:05:49,570 --> 00:05:52,570 Speaker 1: of Children develop it. It's very, very severe. When we 126 00:05:52,570 --> 00:05:54,830 Speaker 1: don't have a vaccine, we can say that the risk 127 00:05:54,830 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: is much lower. But when there's a vaccine available, the 128 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: potential to prevent some of these severe complications is really enticing. 129 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:05,310 Speaker 1: Yang Chen is a pediatrician with years of experience under 130 00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:08,060 Speaker 1: your belt. How are you thinking about the pros and 131 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:11,339 Speaker 1: cons of getting a child vaccinated against covid. You know, 132 00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:14,050 Speaker 1: considering on the one hand, the public good of getting 133 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: more people protected overall. But yet on the other as 134 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,789 Speaker 1: a pediatrician. Knowing parents yourself, there are very personal, real 135 00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:23,770 Speaker 1: life concerns of what people say are unknown risk of 136 00:06:23,779 --> 00:06:28,260 Speaker 1: impact on child development side effects and vaccination reactions. 137 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:31,099 Speaker 1: We know that in the older age group, the adolescents 138 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:35,070 Speaker 1: who were fascinated. They had this thing called peri myocarditis 139 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:37,290 Speaker 1: which is inflammation of the heart of the covering of 140 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:40,979 Speaker 1: the heart. There is some genetic predisposition because it seems 141 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:43,250 Speaker 1: that asians may have a little bit higher risk of 142 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:43,849 Speaker 1: having that. 143 00:06:43,940 --> 00:06:48,170 Speaker 1: And this myocarditis issue seems to be a major concern 144 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: from having the vaccine. 145 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,229 Speaker 1: So that's why I'm very keen to see what the 146 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: data is in countries where like in the U. S. 147 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,239 Speaker 1: And Israel where they are vaccinating large numbers of Children 148 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: to see what the incidents of that era myocarditis is. 149 00:07:01,140 --> 00:07:03,980 Speaker 1: And hopefully from there we can extract the risk of 150 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:08,450 Speaker 1: fascinating younger Children to our Singapore population. That's the main 151 00:07:08,460 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: side effect is concerned about the rest of the local 152 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,820 Speaker 1: side effects that are really negligible. And in the absence 153 00:07:12,820 --> 00:07:14,850 Speaker 1: of this myocarditis issue 154 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,890 Speaker 1: I'd say I really wouldn't have much concern about vaccinating 155 00:07:17,890 --> 00:07:20,550 Speaker 1: the younger age group. I really would like to see 156 00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:23,300 Speaker 1: really about the data is like after maybe two million 157 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:27,250 Speaker 1: numbers of kids in 5 to 11 age group getting vaccinated. 158 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,970 Speaker 1: But the rate of myocarditis and those people are and 159 00:07:30,970 --> 00:07:34,990 Speaker 1: then see what the rate of myocarditis extrapolated local population 160 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,900 Speaker 1: that you brought up side effects. So I'm going to 161 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:39,620 Speaker 1: throw this to Ashley. A lot of parents say the 162 00:07:39,620 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: downtime after each doors is pretty bad for adults already. 163 00:07:42,570 --> 00:07:44,350 Speaker 1: And you can't imagine that for kids. 164 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,990 Speaker 1: Plus with what young shin brought up about myocarditis there 165 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,780 Speaker 1: news of heart problems, chest pain, shortness of rest that 166 00:07:50,780 --> 00:07:54,270 Speaker 1: we're hearing is more commonplace among Children and young adults. 167 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,810 Speaker 1: These don't assure parents. So how concerned should parents be 168 00:07:58,810 --> 00:08:01,540 Speaker 1: about these immediate side effects and talk us through? What 169 00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: are the common expected side effects versus science that something 170 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,930 Speaker 1: is severely wrong and you need to bring a child 171 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:09,060 Speaker 1: to a hospital after they get a covid vaccine. 172 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,110 Speaker 1: The side effects that are normal are things like injection 173 00:08:12,110 --> 00:08:16,170 Speaker 1: site swelling and pain, which was seen in about 70-80% 174 00:08:16,180 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: of the Children that were in the study. So that's expected. 175 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: And actually some of these factors are also expected. If 176 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,380 Speaker 1: you're trying to stimulate your immune system, this is a 177 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:28,450 Speaker 1: sign of inflammation. And it usually means that a vaccine 178 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:31,650 Speaker 1: is working. So it's not necessarily a sign that there 179 00:08:31,650 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: is a severe problem. So I think it's good to 180 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,260 Speaker 1: keep that in perspective that many Children may experience this 181 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:39,670 Speaker 1: and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's anything wrong at 182 00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:41,650 Speaker 1: the same time. When we talk about 183 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:47,300 Speaker 1: individual anecdotal reports or individual cases, it's very difficult to 184 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:51,309 Speaker 1: link those two causation and that is one issue that 185 00:08:51,309 --> 00:08:54,900 Speaker 1: has been a concern in terms of reporting vaccine side effects. 186 00:08:54,910 --> 00:08:58,150 Speaker 1: Are these individual incidents that occur 187 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: randomly in the population that sometimes or are they really 188 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: truly caused 189 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,860 Speaker 1: by a vaccine. And I think when we start looking 190 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:09,930 Speaker 1: at the rates that nature relative to the general population, 191 00:09:09,929 --> 00:09:12,270 Speaker 1: we can begin to see that there is an effect. 192 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: So for example, we may see that there's a slight 193 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,070 Speaker 1: blip for the J and J vaccine for myocardial itis, 194 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: but that's not necessarily something that can be extrapolated to 195 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,050 Speaker 1: all vaccines. 196 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: So we need to keep that in mind as well 197 00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:27,510 Speaker 1: for Children. Right now, the vaccine that seems to be 198 00:09:27,510 --> 00:09:31,150 Speaker 1: approved is the Pfizer vaccine, although others are in testing 199 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,590 Speaker 1: and there wasn't any indication that myocardial this was associated 200 00:09:34,590 --> 00:09:36,860 Speaker 1: with the use of the Pfizer vaccine in any of 201 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:39,180 Speaker 1: the clinical trials. So I think we'll be waiting. Of 202 00:09:39,179 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: course more patients are needed more data. But certainly myocarditis 203 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,460 Speaker 1: or pericarditis 204 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:47,820 Speaker 1: is a much higher if you actually experience covid. And 205 00:09:47,820 --> 00:09:50,229 Speaker 1: this is an important thing to remember as well, that 206 00:09:50,230 --> 00:09:53,350 Speaker 1: we also don't want Children to experience side effects of 207 00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:56,700 Speaker 1: covid itself and that those can be quite severe and 208 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: seem to happen at much higher rates than with vaccination. 209 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,330 Speaker 1: So we've talked about the side effects of getting the 210 00:10:02,330 --> 00:10:04,850 Speaker 1: Covid vaccine, but maybe let's talk about the benefits of 211 00:10:04,850 --> 00:10:08,170 Speaker 1: a covid vaccine for Children. Some people say that it's 212 00:10:08,170 --> 00:10:12,550 Speaker 1: still largely untested and the U. S. CDC though it's approved. 213 00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:14,970 Speaker 1: The use of the Pfizer biontech vaccine for kids age 214 00:10:14,970 --> 00:10:18,220 Speaker 1: 5 to 11 this month. Can you walk us through 215 00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:21,330 Speaker 1: the main factors that inform this decision and tell us 216 00:10:21,340 --> 00:10:24,809 Speaker 1: how confident you are, the underlying studies and science, there 217 00:10:24,809 --> 00:10:27,030 Speaker 1: are studies published in, for example, the new England Journal 218 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:30,380 Speaker 1: of Medicine that showed that the vaccine itself is very 219 00:10:30,380 --> 00:10:35,220 Speaker 1: effective in preventing covid greater than 90% effective in Children 220 00:10:35,230 --> 00:10:39,069 Speaker 1: between five and 12 and the efficacy and Children over 221 00:10:39,070 --> 00:10:42,910 Speaker 1: 12 adolescents between 12 and 18 was I think close 222 00:10:42,910 --> 00:10:44,059 Speaker 1: to 100%. 223 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:46,819 Speaker 1: That's the clear evidence. They also reported the side effects 224 00:10:46,830 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: as we've discussed earlier. And I think an important thing 225 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: to mention is that for the younger population, they also 226 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,870 Speaker 1: used the lower dose. They did this for tolerable itty 227 00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:58,870 Speaker 1: to improve the likelihood that Children would be able to 228 00:10:58,870 --> 00:11:02,820 Speaker 1: tolerate this injection with fewer side effects. The data was 229 00:11:02,820 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: pretty strong. They had about 2000 patients in each study 230 00:11:06,809 --> 00:11:11,850 Speaker 1: and randomized between either the placebo group or the group 231 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: that was receiving the vaccine. And what they showed was 232 00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:18,170 Speaker 1: that Children in the placebo group definitely developed covid at 233 00:11:18,170 --> 00:11:22,150 Speaker 1: much higher rates than in the vaccinated group. And that's 234 00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:24,290 Speaker 1: really the key data we're looking at to say that 235 00:11:24,290 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: it's effective in preventing covid and Children. 236 00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:29,870 Speaker 1: But actually, how much of that is significant because while 237 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,910 Speaker 1: it's about 91% if I'm not wrong effective at preventing 238 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:36,870 Speaker 1: symptomatic covid. We've also heard in the past that young 239 00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:40,580 Speaker 1: Children don't really catch covid or develop severe symptoms. How 240 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: significant are the benefits of a covid vaccine for this group? 241 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:47,670 Speaker 1: That's a good point. Certainly they develop fewer symptoms and 242 00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: are more likely to be asymptomatic. 243 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,490 Speaker 1: I would agree that these didn't necessarily look at the 244 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:59,030 Speaker 1: asymptomatic cases in the race, preventing that certainly preventing symptomatic 245 00:11:59,030 --> 00:12:02,770 Speaker 1: disease is really the idea of protecting yourself with the vaccine. 246 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:05,689 Speaker 1: So we think of vaccines for two purposes. Either they 247 00:12:05,690 --> 00:12:10,179 Speaker 1: protect the community by also preventing transmission which Covid vaccines 248 00:12:10,190 --> 00:12:13,260 Speaker 1: are effective at doing but maybe not as effective as 249 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:15,309 Speaker 1: we would like. We know that we still see some 250 00:12:15,309 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: vaccinated individuals developing disease but at the same time we're 251 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: really concerned when we're giving it to a child were 252 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,490 Speaker 1: mostly wanting to protect them. That's what the studies have 253 00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: shown is happening at least for the Pfizer vaccine. And 254 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: we'll be waiting for other vaccines to be tested in Children. 255 00:12:30,010 --> 00:12:32,910 Speaker 1: And for those results to be reported for us to 256 00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:36,660 Speaker 1: assess whether other vaccines also can provide this protection. 257 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:44,830 Speaker 1: How confident are you in the sampling size of the 258 00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:48,370 Speaker 1: clinical trials underpinning the U. S. CDC approval because um 259 00:12:48,370 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: like actually said the sample size was in the thousands 260 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,870 Speaker 1: if I'm not wrong. It was 1000 or 2600 be 261 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: in the fighter trials that found that 10 micrograms was 90% 262 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: effective in preventing disease 263 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:00,850 Speaker 1: based on that 264 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: and the outcomes seem pretty decent strong antibody response. Side effects. 265 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,370 Speaker 1: No serious than adults. But then there are concerns that 266 00:13:09,380 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: the number is too small to feel to pick up 267 00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:15,340 Speaker 1: reb high impact effects. It was more like an early 268 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: study to confirm the safety and then they rolled it 269 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,350 Speaker 1: out to Children. So I think that's something like 270 00:13:20,740 --> 00:13:25,260 Speaker 1: A million so far vaccinated worldwide and the ages of 5-11. 271 00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:27,580 Speaker 1: And so that's really the number I'm looking at to 272 00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:30,980 Speaker 1: see what the rates of the side effects are and 273 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:34,100 Speaker 1: whether it actually prevents severe disease. I mean I've done 274 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,190 Speaker 1: the telemedicine consults for the positive case for home recovery 275 00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:39,060 Speaker 1: and most of them are really quite all right. 276 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,630 Speaker 1: It's quite uncommon for them to have severe problems. The 277 00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:45,390 Speaker 1: rate of icu admissions are really low at least locally 278 00:13:45,390 --> 00:13:48,069 Speaker 1: so far. I think in the us as well probably 279 00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:51,170 Speaker 1: something like 94 deaths and two million infections and kids 280 00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:53,980 Speaker 1: so far. So that's really also very low sort of 281 00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:56,660 Speaker 1: looking at the worst possible outcome mortality. 282 00:13:56,740 --> 00:13:59,670 Speaker 1: So the risk of the severe disease is not particularly high. 283 00:13:59,670 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Of course you want to reduce death as much as 284 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,510 Speaker 1: you can. So I just want to really look at 285 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:06,850 Speaker 1: that side effect profile for the inflammation of the heart 286 00:14:07,140 --> 00:14:10,069 Speaker 1: in these big numbers of Children who have already been 287 00:14:10,070 --> 00:14:13,230 Speaker 1: vaccinated and see what it's like you're saying. Don't just 288 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:15,420 Speaker 1: look at the sample size of the clinical but also 289 00:14:15,420 --> 00:14:17,660 Speaker 1: look at the results of the one million of the 290 00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:19,970 Speaker 1: kids being vaccinated in the U. S. Is that it, 291 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah we hit two million kids. I think that's a 292 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,850 Speaker 1: good number to see the kids we have the Singapore 293 00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:26,850 Speaker 1: is way less than that. 294 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,060 Speaker 1: So once we have those sort of numbers in vaccinated, 295 00:14:30,060 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: we have a rough idea of the side effect profile 296 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:36,610 Speaker 1: and actually pro vaccination in general, it's generally very safe. 297 00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: The risk of myocarditis or side or any side effects 298 00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:42,030 Speaker 1: are very low granted. Yes, I think actually find it 299 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:43,930 Speaker 1: so far it seems to be an association and we 300 00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:47,260 Speaker 1: can't prove causation yet. But if we look at baseline 301 00:14:47,260 --> 00:14:51,530 Speaker 1: incidence of myocarditis versus those who get myocarditis post vaccination 302 00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:54,090 Speaker 1: within two weeks of the vaccination, then I think there 303 00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:57,260 Speaker 1: is a little bit of possible biological possibility to the 304 00:14:57,260 --> 00:14:58,060 Speaker 1: cause and effect 305 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,220 Speaker 1: young man. Are you actually saying that you're not quite 306 00:15:01,230 --> 00:15:04,580 Speaker 1: certain that the positive benefits of the Covid vaccine is 307 00:15:04,580 --> 00:15:06,660 Speaker 1: there and you're more concerned about the side effects. So, 308 00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:08,670 Speaker 1: my approach to whether or not we should vaccine and 309 00:15:08,670 --> 00:15:10,860 Speaker 1: roll out the vaccine mandates really looking at the risk 310 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:14,220 Speaker 1: of the disease or severe disease versus the risk of 311 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: the vaccine. So right now, we know the risk of 312 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: severe disease in Children tend to be not very high. 313 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: So the benefits of the vaccine must outweigh the risk. 314 00:15:21,770 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: And the risk of the side of the vaccine really 315 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,390 Speaker 1: is just the inflammation of the heart, the local side 316 00:15:26,390 --> 00:15:29,060 Speaker 1: effects are very rare. NflX this is kind of like 317 00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: striking the lottery. You can't control that all you can 318 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,850 Speaker 1: control allergic to. So that's something you can't control any 319 00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:37,300 Speaker 1: vaccine would have a possible risk of anaphylaxis. So that's 320 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:39,260 Speaker 1: not a new country education for me for 321 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:41,050 Speaker 1: the general population to get the vaccine. 322 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,380 Speaker 1: So really looking at the risk of the severe disease 323 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:45,650 Speaker 1: and the risk of severe outcomes from the vaccine and 324 00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:46,660 Speaker 1: comparing the two 325 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,859 Speaker 1: Ashley, did you have a response to what young kids said? 326 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,410 Speaker 1: I agree with him that we're going to start seeing 327 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: the rare events when you have more vaccinated for sure. 328 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:57,900 Speaker 1: And that is possible. Like we don't want to rule 329 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: out that there could be some very rare outcome. And 330 00:16:01,770 --> 00:16:04,869 Speaker 1: I understand from his perspective as well. Also you mentioned 331 00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:07,110 Speaker 1: the vaccine mandate and I think it's something different to 332 00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: say should a child be vaccinated versus should all Children 333 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: be mandated to be vaccinated? 334 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,540 Speaker 1: That's a different level of certainty you need to have 335 00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: as well. So I agree with him to a certain extent. 336 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: But I also think it's important to remember that Covid 337 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,750 Speaker 1: could also have long term effects. 338 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: And we know the vaccines are generally relatively very, very 339 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,300 Speaker 1: safe in comparison to experiencing covid even for Children. And 340 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,390 Speaker 1: so in my view, the benefits still outweigh the risks 341 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,310 Speaker 1: based on data. And I also question whether we can 342 00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:41,300 Speaker 1: extrapolate what is seen in adults necessarily to the rates 343 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:43,260 Speaker 1: of these events that we were going to ask you 344 00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: that because so many millions of adults around the world 345 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: have been vaccinated in Singapore as well? We've got high 346 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,900 Speaker 1: vaccination rates. Does that affect confidence levels in whether kids 347 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:54,070 Speaker 1: should get vaccinated, 348 00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:56,850 Speaker 1: are there limitations? The extrapolation? 349 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,910 Speaker 1: Well, I think it shows that adults have experienced the 350 00:17:00,910 --> 00:17:05,170 Speaker 1: vaccine at higher doses even than the Children will be administered. 351 00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:07,889 Speaker 1: That is suggestive. But of course we always have to 352 00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:10,869 Speaker 1: rely on data. So I understand that for a small 353 00:17:10,869 --> 00:17:13,949 Speaker 1: population such as Singapore might be good to see 354 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,649 Speaker 1: the outcomes of this data in a few weeks before 355 00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:20,220 Speaker 1: making a decision regarding something as serious as a mandate. 356 00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:22,169 Speaker 1: But certainly we can say that 357 00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:26,100 Speaker 1: even in adults, the rates of myocardial tissue or pericarditis 358 00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:29,100 Speaker 1: that seem to occur based on covid are higher than 359 00:17:29,109 --> 00:17:32,530 Speaker 1: with the vaccine. It's difficult to ascribe causation. You know, 360 00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:35,340 Speaker 1: we look at the rates and it's, you know, difficult 361 00:17:35,340 --> 00:17:39,310 Speaker 1: and humans to really pinpoint what is causing specific issues. 362 00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:41,950 Speaker 1: But I think overall these vaccines are very safe 363 00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:44,889 Speaker 1: and they've been shown to be safe in adults and Children. 364 00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:47,060 Speaker 1: There was no sign in any of the trials 365 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: that there is a safety concern and that I think 366 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,170 Speaker 1: is beneficial information leaning towards vaccinating Children. I certainly think 367 00:17:54,170 --> 00:17:57,140 Speaker 1: Children should be vaccinated to protect them and also to 368 00:17:57,140 --> 00:18:00,310 Speaker 1: protect the community. A lot of transmission occurs in Children. 369 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,410 Speaker 1: It has been shown to be pretty safe. It's good 370 00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: to lean on the side of controlling covid? 371 00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:07,629 Speaker 1: Perhaps many fewer people will be exposed to covid if 372 00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:08,270 Speaker 1: we can 373 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,790 Speaker 1: eliminate this percentage of the population that can serve as 374 00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:15,619 Speaker 1: a reservoir for transmission. One last question before I jump 375 00:18:15,630 --> 00:18:18,500 Speaker 1: to talk to Shari, what is the data saying about 376 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:22,030 Speaker 1: the effects on child physical growth and mental development. Because 377 00:18:22,030 --> 00:18:24,389 Speaker 1: I think that's an area of concern for parents looking 378 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:26,170 Speaker 1: at young Children still growing up. 379 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:29,550 Speaker 1: I don't think there's enough evidence to worry about that. 380 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,550 Speaker 1: There is no evidence because concerned that it's going to 381 00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:36,310 Speaker 1: impact growth or mental development in Children. The risk of 382 00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:39,190 Speaker 1: that happening such a rare possibility. I don't even think 383 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:41,030 Speaker 1: it is very likely. But you know, if you do 384 00:18:41,030 --> 00:18:44,010 Speaker 1: get covid and you get long covid for example where 385 00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: you may have other issues like 386 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,010 Speaker 1: difficulty smelling things, tasting things and some people have cognitive 387 00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:50,050 Speaker 1: issues as well. 388 00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:53,090 Speaker 1: So directly from covid infection. So I think that the 389 00:18:53,090 --> 00:18:56,129 Speaker 1: vaccines on that front of the concern of growth and 390 00:18:56,130 --> 00:18:59,629 Speaker 1: mental development is definitely not of concern compared to the 391 00:18:59,630 --> 00:19:02,770 Speaker 1: risk of getting covid and long covid issues. So I'm 392 00:19:02,770 --> 00:19:04,469 Speaker 1: going to turn to Sherry who is really the target 393 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:08,449 Speaker 1: audience here listening to all the experts unpacked the benefits 394 00:19:08,450 --> 00:19:10,990 Speaker 1: and the risk of getting a covid vaccine for young Children? 395 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,060 Speaker 1: Where is your hit? After you hear all these science 396 00:19:14,060 --> 00:19:17,430 Speaker 1: and rational from vaccinating Children, all the considerations as a parent. 397 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,350 Speaker 1: Are you more convinced? Are you more confident? I have 398 00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:23,290 Speaker 1: two questions actually five and 11. I know it's like 399 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:26,270 Speaker 1: it's like a blanket age group they're looking at. But 400 00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:28,659 Speaker 1: my five role and my 11 year old are markedly 401 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: different in terms of physique in terms of where they 402 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: are in their lives. 403 00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:35,980 Speaker 1: Is it fair to just blanket the whole age group 404 00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:38,460 Speaker 1: as opposed to, I don't know, splitting it up because 405 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: Maybe all the kids that are closer to the 12 406 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,390 Speaker 1: year old and above and there could have been tested 407 00:19:43,390 --> 00:19:45,910 Speaker 1: and it's safer for them versus a five year old 408 00:19:45,910 --> 00:19:48,070 Speaker 1: because maybe not as many five year olds are in 409 00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:49,670 Speaker 1: that sample size of two million. 410 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,310 Speaker 1: So maybe the question is also, why is it safe 411 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:54,469 Speaker 1: to give a five year old the same dosage as 412 00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:58,530 Speaker 1: an 11 year old? And what's happening at age 12 413 00:19:58,530 --> 00:20:01,900 Speaker 1: that suddenly the dosage can be an adult dosage and 414 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: what's happening between the time a child is born to 415 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: fight that they can't get a covid vaccine, but they're 416 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,540 Speaker 1: pregnant mothers can maybe that's something Ebola of issues that 417 00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:13,830 Speaker 1: actually can help us understand. I think that's a really 418 00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:16,730 Speaker 1: good question. And my understanding is that that data hasn't 419 00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: been analyzed yet. It's not that they can't, it's that 420 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: it hasn't been yet presented to the regulatory authorities from 421 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: my understanding of reading the publications that this was somewhat 422 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: arbitrary in the sense that they did divide it based 423 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,350 Speaker 1: on wanting to assess these two age groups separately, which 424 00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:36,619 Speaker 1: is something they try to plan before they design a trial. 425 00:20:36,619 --> 00:20:39,090 Speaker 1: So they try to think about it and plan how 426 00:20:39,090 --> 00:20:41,530 Speaker 1: they're going to design a trial so that it can 427 00:20:41,530 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: be 428 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,250 Speaker 1: interpreted without a retrospective bias. So if you change your 429 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:47,669 Speaker 1: analysis parameters 430 00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:50,590 Speaker 1: after you've planned it, then you might be just trying 431 00:20:50,590 --> 00:20:54,429 Speaker 1: to fit your square peg into a round hole and 432 00:20:54,430 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: they don't want it to be done that way. So 433 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,670 Speaker 1: usually they will set up their age groups ahead of time, 434 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,110 Speaker 1: say how they're going to report the findings and it's 435 00:21:02,109 --> 00:21:05,909 Speaker 1: possible that they may find a different dosage is more 436 00:21:05,910 --> 00:21:09,330 Speaker 1: appropriate for younger Children or it's possible they may soon 437 00:21:09,330 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: submit some results showing that it's effective. 438 00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:15,220 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that particularly but I 439 00:21:15,220 --> 00:21:18,449 Speaker 1: would certainly say that they probably made some judgments and 440 00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:20,710 Speaker 1: things like vaccines a lot of times. It is based 441 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:23,620 Speaker 1: on weight but there was some scientific basis as to 442 00:21:23,619 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: why the dosage was reduced for those age 5-11 I imagine. 443 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,570 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was tested and they realized that the 444 00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:34,290 Speaker 1: antibody tighter is actually resulted in exactly the same levels 445 00:21:34,290 --> 00:21:36,740 Speaker 1: of antibodies at the lower dose compared to the higher 446 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:40,780 Speaker 1: dose in Children. So there wasn't a significant improvement and 447 00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:43,540 Speaker 1: their immune response with a higher dose. So why give 448 00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: a higher dose in that case give a lower dose 449 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: and there was potentially a little bit of an improvement 450 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,450 Speaker 1: in the safety profile in terms of these mild side 451 00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:53,170 Speaker 1: effects that are experienced like 452 00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:57,169 Speaker 1: Headache or arm swelling. Um things that also happened at 453 00:21:57,170 --> 00:22:00,710 Speaker 1: about 30% of the patients that received placebo controlled by 454 00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:03,260 Speaker 1: the way. So you can experience it even with just 455 00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:05,609 Speaker 1: the injection itself, a little bit of swelling or pain 456 00:22:05,609 --> 00:22:08,090 Speaker 1: in the arm. That was the consideration was that there 457 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:11,270 Speaker 1: wasn't a benefit to giving more in these Children. And 458 00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:13,270 Speaker 1: they tested it side by side. So in that case, 459 00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:15,770 Speaker 1: why not give the lower dose? 460 00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:18,530 Speaker 1: We're not saying that it's not safe for kids who 461 00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:21,060 Speaker 1: are below five to take. It's just it's not tested yet. 462 00:22:21,140 --> 00:22:23,780 Speaker 1: Yes, it is being tested. So I think we will 463 00:22:23,780 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: soon start seeing results. There are clinical trials that are 464 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,530 Speaker 1: ongoing for Children under five as well and those have 465 00:22:30,530 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: been planned and submitted to trial registry. So you can 466 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,290 Speaker 1: see that these trials are in progress, but the results 467 00:22:37,290 --> 00:22:38,660 Speaker 1: of them are not yet available. 468 00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:40,770 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if they were waiting. You know, 469 00:22:40,770 --> 00:22:43,020 Speaker 1: if they're gradually moving down in age as they see 470 00:22:43,020 --> 00:22:46,090 Speaker 1: the safety results. But I can't speak for them how 471 00:22:46,090 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: they planned it as a parent. I think that's really 472 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,900 Speaker 1: two things that I think so niggle at me right. 473 00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:54,209 Speaker 1: Other than age then one is we talked about the 474 00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:56,830 Speaker 1: idea of the mandate. So I think for me, the 475 00:22:56,830 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: decision to vaccinate them have two levels of consideration. One 476 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,980 Speaker 1: is of course the medical risk. I think Clinton has 477 00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:05,140 Speaker 1: covered that because it's really about the risk of what 478 00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: happens if they do get covid versus 479 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,030 Speaker 1: the side effects of the vaccination. So that's definitely a 480 00:23:10,030 --> 00:23:12,030 Speaker 1: really valid point. But the second one that I think 481 00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:15,100 Speaker 1: have become really real for us for me in Singapore 482 00:23:15,109 --> 00:23:19,379 Speaker 1: is being vaccinated gives you access to places and things, right? 483 00:23:19,390 --> 00:23:21,570 Speaker 1: I mean we haven't really called it a mandate because 484 00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:23,610 Speaker 1: it was optional for a long time. And then now 485 00:23:23,609 --> 00:23:25,980 Speaker 1: there are new rules, right? For example, if you're not 486 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: vaccinated 487 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: by a choice, if you get covid, your medical is 488 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: not being covered, 489 00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:32,150 Speaker 1: you can't go to certain places. You can't take patterns, 490 00:23:32,150 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: certain things. You can't go to certain cinemas for example. 491 00:23:34,770 --> 00:23:37,150 Speaker 1: And are you saying that that will actually swing parents 492 00:23:37,150 --> 00:23:39,660 Speaker 1: to come to a firm decision to get their kids vaccinated. 493 00:23:39,670 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: If kids come under this 494 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,980 Speaker 1: vaccinated differentiated measures. I mean it doesn't even mean can. Yes. Exactly. Right. 495 00:23:46,980 --> 00:23:48,750 Speaker 1: So I think that's one I mean the idea of 496 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,700 Speaker 1: access but also to I mean there's a really wait, 497 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: so you're saying that it's not safety considerations. It's actually practicalities. 498 00:23:55,050 --> 00:23:57,410 Speaker 1: I think it's both. I think for some people then 499 00:23:57,420 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: for example, if I could afford to pay for medical 500 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,540 Speaker 1: care if my kid gets covid, I can have a choice. Right? 501 00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:03,669 Speaker 1: So I can decide, 502 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:05,700 Speaker 1: you know whether for example, if I think the risk 503 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:07,689 Speaker 1: is high can choose not to. But if I don't 504 00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: have that means then it adds a different layer of consideration. 505 00:24:12,010 --> 00:24:14,260 Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm speaking out loud for some families 506 00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:16,730 Speaker 1: who may have to make that kind of choice where 507 00:24:16,730 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: they are still afraid or they're still concerned. But the 508 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,550 Speaker 1: realities of how they live 509 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,340 Speaker 1: requires them then to take the path of vaccination. Even 510 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:26,770 Speaker 1: if they're a little bit uncomfortable. 511 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,850 Speaker 1: The question actually I have for you is a lot 512 00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:39,220 Speaker 1: of parents say they will vaccinate Children out of sure 513 00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: practicalities because they had enough of life in confinement. Kids 514 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: in quarantine canceled sports. C C H V. L. Are 515 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,660 Speaker 1: you saying that you know, a lot of it is 516 00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:50,659 Speaker 1: just wanting to get on with life which could be 517 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:52,859 Speaker 1: a big motivator for parents less 518 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: the health and safety concerns I think for Singapore when 519 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: they dangled the idea that when we get such a 520 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: level of vaccination, we would have another bit more freedom. 521 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,379 Speaker 1: That's a really big push to get a lot of 522 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:04,889 Speaker 1: us to vaccinate. But I would say really at this point, 523 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:06,990 Speaker 1: my eldest son, I mean that's what he'll say. It 524 00:25:06,990 --> 00:25:09,540 Speaker 1: allows him to do things if I choose to wait 525 00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: for example and because of whatever data 526 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,490 Speaker 1: and he turns the team for example and he's not vaccinated, 527 00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: especially hampers what we can and cannot do as a 528 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: family and where we can and cannot go. So I 529 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,290 Speaker 1: think there is a real societal getting on with life pressure. Yeah. 530 00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:26,219 Speaker 1: And especially now with the medical costs, I would say 531 00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:27,709 Speaker 1: that I'm lucky enough that I may not have to 532 00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:30,869 Speaker 1: think about that. But I think the reality is. Yeah. 533 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people would then 534 00:25:32,540 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: have to make a financial consideration. So called mandate a 535 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,180 Speaker 1: mandate if it is one. But this kind of in 536 00:25:39,180 --> 00:25:43,580 Speaker 1: between sort of soft arm twisting is more like an implicit, 537 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,750 Speaker 1: it's not explicit. Yeah. And to me as a parent, 538 00:25:46,750 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: to me that doesn't sit well, you'd rather be pulled 539 00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:52,669 Speaker 1: that your kids should get vaccinated, must get vaccinated. 540 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's like going to primary school, right? They 541 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,230 Speaker 1: say you have to have these vaccinations or you cannot 542 00:25:57,230 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: go to primary school. It actually makes it easier easier 543 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: by because it's not a decision. I have to make 544 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,909 Speaker 1: the way things out. I don't have a choice anyway. 545 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: Versus now I really have to look at the data 546 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,410 Speaker 1: I have to look at and I have to make 547 00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:10,660 Speaker 1: a conscious choice. 548 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: But is it really a choice? I think that's something 549 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: that I struggle with as a parent. 550 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,969 Speaker 1: Um and that's why I struggle with the 11 and 551 00:26:16,970 --> 00:26:19,070 Speaker 1: a five year old because I can understand the 11 552 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: because the data seems to be I guess more, we too. 553 00:26:23,109 --> 00:26:25,530 Speaker 1: if I can wait. I think 10 micrograms is one 554 00:26:25,530 --> 00:26:28,060 Speaker 1: third the adult dose. So I think 10 migrants is 555 00:26:28,060 --> 00:26:31,090 Speaker 1: like arbitrary sort of decision they made and they like 556 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: actually said it was shown that when they did a 557 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,190 Speaker 1: lower dose it provided the same response to the immune system. 558 00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: So that's why they chose 10 for the 5 to 559 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: 10 year olds. They're grouped together because this is like 560 00:26:42,250 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: primary school age groups where they start going to school, 561 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,700 Speaker 1: big groups of kids congregate together. You also want to 562 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:50,690 Speaker 1: reduce that school to school class, the class transmission. Because 563 00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:53,350 Speaker 1: you have your distancing. You put the tables two m 564 00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:56,300 Speaker 1: apart but they're still gonna mix. You know, these kids 565 00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:59,270 Speaker 1: for the 5 to 11 year old 10 micrograms I think. 566 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: Not much worry about the dose requires that the five 567 00:27:02,810 --> 00:27:05,020 Speaker 1: year old gets 10 micrograms and the 11 year old 568 00:27:05,030 --> 00:27:07,290 Speaker 1: 10 micrograms. I think overall the picture should be that 569 00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:10,070 Speaker 1: it's a lower dose is one of the adult dose 570 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: is probably ok. And if it's shown that the lower 571 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,770 Speaker 1: dose at this rate is enough to give you a 572 00:27:14,770 --> 00:27:16,860 Speaker 1: good response to the vaccine. 573 00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:18,500 Speaker 1: So that's why you want the vaccine to do anywhere 574 00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,050 Speaker 1: at the lowest possible for the best possible response. 575 00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:24,970 Speaker 1: You see that marksmanship on the door stage is definitely 576 00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:28,650 Speaker 1: something that might require. And we'll need fine tuning with 577 00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:31,780 Speaker 1: the passage of time allowing that. But just to get 578 00:27:31,780 --> 00:27:34,859 Speaker 1: back to the whole question about the whole decision for 579 00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: parents to vaccinate their kids when you think about it. 580 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: You know. Sharif 581 00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: most of us in Singapore have this whole slew jabs 582 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,570 Speaker 1: to get when from both the BCG. That's all the 583 00:27:46,570 --> 00:27:50,790 Speaker 1: way to the Syria mm R. P. It's a program, 584 00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:53,870 Speaker 1: a national immunization program. So what's the big issue here 585 00:27:53,869 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: with giving your kids these Covid vaccines. Even if there 586 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: are five years old? I guess it's just lack of 587 00:28:00,570 --> 00:28:01,460 Speaker 1: similarity 588 00:28:01,540 --> 00:28:04,570 Speaker 1: for parents. It feels rushed. Like Covid happened last year. 589 00:28:04,570 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: There's a vaccine that came out last year. 590 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,010 Speaker 1: I know modern science allows us to to do things 591 00:28:09,010 --> 00:28:11,890 Speaker 1: that quickly. I think parents are just naturally more cautious 592 00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:14,530 Speaker 1: especially when we hear that vaccinations come with side effects. 593 00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:16,010 Speaker 1: I mean it's always easy to say if you look 594 00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:18,660 Speaker 1: at the numbers logically my cognitive brain like yeah. And 595 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:20,859 Speaker 1: the odds are really, really low. But what if you're 596 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: that one person because we all know about that one 597 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: family whose kids had the side effect is the news 598 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,370 Speaker 1: covers it for us, right? And we start to feel 599 00:28:29,369 --> 00:28:31,350 Speaker 1: like okay if it's our family than I do, I 600 00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:33,740 Speaker 1: want to make that choice. So you'd rather not have 601 00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:36,070 Speaker 1: to make that choice. You'd rather it be a mandate. 602 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,530 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm torn between the access it gives 603 00:28:39,530 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: me because it's not really a vaccination mandate. It's a 604 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,570 Speaker 1: vaccination mandate. That means a lot of other things for 605 00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:47,730 Speaker 1: daily life. It's just like our mandate to vaccinate before 606 00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:50,060 Speaker 1: you go to primary school, It gives you access to 607 00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:50,770 Speaker 1: primary school 608 00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:54,330 Speaker 1: and in Singapore being vaccinated gives you access to things. 609 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:57,050 Speaker 1: So it's not just a healthy this idea of being 610 00:28:57,050 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: safe for the community has other implications for family life. 611 00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:03,540 Speaker 1: Young shin was right and saying it's kind of like 612 00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:06,310 Speaker 1: a soft mandate. Almost even if we won't call it 613 00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:09,250 Speaker 1: that there is that consideration for a lot of families 614 00:29:09,250 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: because it's not just about risk and health, it's also 615 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,850 Speaker 1: about what it means for our lives in general. 616 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: I just want to get one more point in about 617 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: risk and health. Ashley other groups of more vulnerable kids 618 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,150 Speaker 1: who should get priority. And is it a priority for 619 00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:26,610 Speaker 1: kids with underlying medical conditions? Because I think parents whose 620 00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: kids have asthma, diabetes and even heart disease will be 621 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,860 Speaker 1: wondering whether they should be getting it as early as 622 00:29:33,940 --> 00:29:37,270 Speaker 1: see adults with multiple chronic conditions when they were 623 00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:40,390 Speaker 1: encouraged to get vaccinated early on because they stood a 624 00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: higher risk of severe covid effects. Or does the sign 625 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,860 Speaker 1: say that that is not a significant priority right now. 626 00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:50,300 Speaker 1: So that's a good question. And maybe I won't give 627 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:53,390 Speaker 1: you a direct answer. But sometimes, you know, but for 628 00:29:53,390 --> 00:29:57,630 Speaker 1: how I think about it, um, yeah. And I'm happy 629 00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,540 Speaker 1: to pass on the question. But I guess my view 630 00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,530 Speaker 1: is that we do know that Children who have certain 631 00:30:02,530 --> 00:30:05,550 Speaker 1: risk factors are also more likely to experience severe disease 632 00:30:05,550 --> 00:30:08,940 Speaker 1: with covid. So things like obesity and diabetes still in Children, 633 00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:10,060 Speaker 1: just like an adult, 634 00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:14,209 Speaker 1: they're more likely to have mild disease. These are still 635 00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: risk factors for severe disease or Icu admission and things 636 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,860 Speaker 1: like that. That is something to consider. But at the 637 00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:23,250 Speaker 1: same time, I would say being a scientist and always 638 00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: looking to data there haven't been data reported that would 639 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,020 Speaker 1: have stratified these Children in the vaccinated groups by risk. 640 00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:35,460 Speaker 1: This is a very important consideration. We will definitely be 641 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: looking for data going forward, but maybe there's not a 642 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,590 Speaker 1: direct answer to your question yet at the same time, 643 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,900 Speaker 1: certainly these are risk factors for severe covid. So that's 644 00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:46,050 Speaker 1: something to keep in mind 645 00:30:46,540 --> 00:30:49,060 Speaker 1: then. Is it fair for parents to ask for more 646 00:30:49,060 --> 00:30:51,730 Speaker 1: time in detail to take a wait and see approach 647 00:30:51,730 --> 00:30:53,170 Speaker 1: and what's the trade of your 648 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,850 Speaker 1: my view is that the vaccines work and that they're safe. 649 00:30:56,860 --> 00:31:00,820 Speaker 1: I think that perhaps it's important to allow people the 650 00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:06,270 Speaker 1: choice as soon as possible to have Children vaccinated. Certainly 651 00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:09,570 Speaker 1: it can protect them from developing severe covid and from 652 00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: other complications of covid. It's really a huge advantage to 653 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,300 Speaker 1: have these tested and approved or at least under emergency use, 654 00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:21,420 Speaker 1: particularly for the younger Children. And certainly they should be 655 00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:25,510 Speaker 1: available going forward. Of course, we'll continue monitoring and we 656 00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:29,330 Speaker 1: can always consider which populations are most at risk and 657 00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:32,610 Speaker 1: which should be prioritized and perhaps anywhere the vaccine would 658 00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:35,670 Speaker 1: be contraindicated. This is something that's a huge advantage 659 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,670 Speaker 1: in terms of protecting Children themselves as well as limiting 660 00:31:39,670 --> 00:31:43,370 Speaker 1: transmission in the population. You can you can jump in. 661 00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:46,410 Speaker 1: I think the vaccine is generally safe with the caviar 662 00:31:46,410 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: of that hard information thing and we can prevent severe 663 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,550 Speaker 1: disease by preventing primary disease 664 00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:56,180 Speaker 1: because of the multi system inflammatory syndrome in kids. That's 665 00:31:56,180 --> 00:31:58,310 Speaker 1: something I still want to re and c because it's 666 00:31:58,310 --> 00:32:00,140 Speaker 1: an immune mediated thing. So I don't know where the 667 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: vaccination will actually protect against that. 668 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,690 Speaker 1: Although the reduction in primary use will indirectly lead to 669 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:07,670 Speaker 1: a reduction of the M. I. S. C. Issue. 670 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,570 Speaker 1: Um with regards to vulnerable groups. I think Children at risk. 671 00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:14,030 Speaker 1: I think we strongly consider if I had a kid 672 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:17,130 Speaker 1: with like chronic lung disease or active asthma or even 673 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:19,710 Speaker 1: an obese child, I would want to vaccinate a child 674 00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: more than others because there's biological possibility to them having 675 00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:24,770 Speaker 1: more severe disease 676 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,430 Speaker 1: even before the data comes out, if I have a 677 00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:31,590 Speaker 1: patient who has active as the frequent exacerbations, you probably 678 00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:34,450 Speaker 1: want to take every precaution you can get every protection 679 00:32:34,450 --> 00:32:37,250 Speaker 1: you can and for that child. The risk may problem 680 00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:41,260 Speaker 1: of the vaccine probably higher than the risk of severe disease. 681 00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: And also look at your own family. So if your 682 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,700 Speaker 1: family is like mine, health care worker and my kids 683 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:47,340 Speaker 1: are going to be higher risk cause I see covid 684 00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:48,050 Speaker 1: patients that I 685 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,670 Speaker 1: visited my Children as well, 686 00:32:49,940 --> 00:32:52,750 Speaker 1: You know, Terry. Um the interesting thing is there are 687 00:32:52,750 --> 00:32:55,130 Speaker 1: a lot of poles around the world in Israel and 688 00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: in the us showing what parents, are how they're thinking 689 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,410 Speaker 1: about this issue and in Israel which has one of 690 00:33:00,410 --> 00:33:04,950 Speaker 1: the highest adult population vaccination rates show that only 27% 691 00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:07,470 Speaker 1: of parents will allow their kids under 12 to receive 692 00:33:07,470 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: the vaccine 693 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,670 Speaker 1: a third world post and 694 00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:14,630 Speaker 1: The remainder were undecided about 40%. And we roughly see 695 00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:18,930 Speaker 1: the same levels in the US where only 27% to 696 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:22,530 Speaker 1: a poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation said they would 697 00:33:22,530 --> 00:33:26,270 Speaker 1: get their kids 5-11 vaccinated right away. And the third 698 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,219 Speaker 1: would we can see these proportions sound about right in 699 00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:32,220 Speaker 1: your circle of friends with young Children. Are you seeing 700 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:34,460 Speaker 1: more parents take a wait and see approach? I think 701 00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:36,740 Speaker 1: the ones with the older kids closer to the 12 702 00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:39,470 Speaker 1: year olds are more willing to say I will be 703 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,900 Speaker 1: more open. Those are the younger ones would still be 704 00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: hesitant because I think they're coming out of a season 705 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: of their lives where they have been vaccinated along that 706 00:33:47,050 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: they seem a lot younger. 707 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,550 Speaker 1: I think as a parent I know the data says 708 00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:52,580 Speaker 1: that you know it's really about the same between five 709 00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:54,350 Speaker 1: and 11 year old. I will say that I still 710 00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: cannot realistically wrap my brain around the fact that my 711 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: five year old should get the same dose as my 712 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,290 Speaker 1: 11 year old. I understand the science and I hear 713 00:34:01,290 --> 00:34:03,370 Speaker 1: the data and I hear that it's safe. There is 714 00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:05,150 Speaker 1: still a part of me that feels like there's such 715 00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: different beings size wise age wise. I can't explain it. 716 00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:11,060 Speaker 1: I'm not sure but I think the data could 717 00:34:11,140 --> 00:34:13,469 Speaker 1: Show me like five year olds at this weight 718 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,009 Speaker 1: Across the world like two million of them and it's safe. 719 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:18,219 Speaker 1: I think it would change my mind. Just lumping them 720 00:34:18,219 --> 00:34:20,510 Speaker 1: in a big group just for me feels like it 721 00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:21,670 Speaker 1: just feels like a catch all. 722 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,270 Speaker 1: But most adults were pretty decisive in booking an appointment 723 00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:29,580 Speaker 1: for themselves when Covid vaccines were available. And I'm not 724 00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: sure if all of us put over the medical data 725 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: to be able to assess the levels of safety efficacy. 726 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,569 Speaker 1: So why are they seeing people hesitating when it comes 727 00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: to their kids? I think because five year olds seems 728 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,140 Speaker 1: like there's still a lot of growing to do a 729 00:34:41,140 --> 00:34:42,860 Speaker 1: lot of things that could possibly go wrong. 730 00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: It also feels like the same dose that we're seeing. 731 00:34:46,810 --> 00:34:49,150 Speaker 1: I know it's a lesser dose but we don't know enough. 732 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,060 Speaker 1: We don't see enough kids around the world who are 733 00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:55,890 Speaker 1: vaccinated at that age man. It feels like we're jumping 734 00:34:55,890 --> 00:34:57,700 Speaker 1: into the unknown and I know Singapore and I'd like 735 00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:00,140 Speaker 1: to go first anyway, okay with my 9 11 year 736 00:35:00,140 --> 00:35:01,469 Speaker 1: old not a big issue, 737 00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: my five year old, I would be concerned. I wouldn't 738 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,090 Speaker 1: say I wouldn't because I think the practicalities might swing 739 00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: it for me and if I did enough, if the 740 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: data shows that okay, I guess more and more younger 741 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: kids are okay then I probably might be more open 742 00:35:14,290 --> 00:35:17,750 Speaker 1: but at the moment I'm very, I'm not sure. I'm 743 00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:20,670 Speaker 1: not sure. I'll be honest. My first two no issues. 744 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: My last one, I don't know. I want to get 745 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,219 Speaker 1: everybody sense on when we move towards vaccinating kids 5-11 746 00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:31,170 Speaker 1: in Singapore. Do you think this will change the course 747 00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:34,780 Speaker 1: of this pandemic for Singapore? And then how should parents 748 00:35:34,780 --> 00:35:37,989 Speaker 1: be thinking about whether to get their kids vaccinated considering 749 00:35:37,989 --> 00:35:42,490 Speaker 1: also that there are these very personal decisions and circumstances. 750 00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:43,750 Speaker 1: Why don't we start with you actually, 751 00:35:44,140 --> 00:35:47,739 Speaker 1: it's something that should be available to people. Uh certainly 752 00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:50,110 Speaker 1: it can protect Children. It can protect at risk Children 753 00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: and it can protect families, some of us have family 754 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,870 Speaker 1: members who are at risk and we want the Children 755 00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:58,030 Speaker 1: to be able to interact with them. And so that's 756 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: I think another key factor. It can certainly be a 757 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,339 Speaker 1: tool for controlling the pandemic. 758 00:36:03,530 --> 00:36:07,790 Speaker 1: We know that Children are constantly spreading infectious diseases they 759 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,290 Speaker 1: meet at school, they play together and those are important 760 00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:11,660 Speaker 1: things for their development 761 00:36:11,730 --> 00:36:14,950 Speaker 1: that needs to be a consideration as well. I think 762 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,779 Speaker 1: in terms of their immune systems, immune systems are pretty 763 00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:20,180 Speaker 1: much developed at one year of age. So I think 764 00:36:20,180 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: that their immune systems can handle it even if they're 765 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,990 Speaker 1: young Children, they may not look like it, but we 766 00:36:24,989 --> 00:36:28,670 Speaker 1: experience most of our childhood infections when we're under five 767 00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:30,940 Speaker 1: and so I think our immune systems are pretty strong 768 00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: early there to protect us against these 769 00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:37,220 Speaker 1: nasty infectious diseases including covid and giving a vaccine is 770 00:36:37,219 --> 00:36:40,050 Speaker 1: a great way to make sure that Children don't have 771 00:36:40,050 --> 00:36:42,549 Speaker 1: to experience it at its fullest. 772 00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: I really take the point from actually. So I feel 773 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,859 Speaker 1: that the I mean overall the balance of things that 774 00:36:47,860 --> 00:36:50,210 Speaker 1: the vaccine is probably going to be safe. I'm not 775 00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: too worried about those differential per se. 776 00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:56,110 Speaker 1: Also just enhance the point about protecting the family. I 777 00:36:56,110 --> 00:36:57,900 Speaker 1: think in Singapore, a lot of our kids are taken 778 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,430 Speaker 1: care of by a lot of grandparents and those are 779 00:37:00,430 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: the people are really at the highest risk of morbidity 780 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,850 Speaker 1: and mortality 781 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:08,340 Speaker 1: and preventing this of childhood vector to spread. Covid to 782 00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:10,900 Speaker 1: the elderly is probably going to make some difference to 783 00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: the elderly population, 784 00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:15,569 Speaker 1: the social isolation that a lot of kids have experienced 785 00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: due to all the measures that were taken to a covid, 786 00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:22,469 Speaker 1: Once we have the covid vaccination, widespread school going Children 787 00:37:22,469 --> 00:37:25,420 Speaker 1: can have lessening of these distancing measures. Hopefully I think 788 00:37:25,420 --> 00:37:28,020 Speaker 1: they will only do good for their social emotional sort 789 00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 1: of development. I think for us we should just call 790 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,610 Speaker 1: a mandate a mandate. I feel its clarity for parents 791 00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:36,660 Speaker 1: were forced to make a lot of decisions and assumptions 792 00:37:36,830 --> 00:37:38,870 Speaker 1: which I think we we do on a day to 793 00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:41,820 Speaker 1: day basis. But it feels very rushed for me. I 794 00:37:41,820 --> 00:37:43,910 Speaker 1: take everybody's point. You know, the idea that it gives 795 00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:45,940 Speaker 1: us access and gives us safety to be honest. I 796 00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:48,900 Speaker 1: was put in quarantine this year over my birthday actually 797 00:37:48,910 --> 00:37:50,860 Speaker 1: we thought that my husband or I or my older 798 00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:52,529 Speaker 1: kids because they go to school. It was about 3.5 799 00:37:52,530 --> 00:37:53,450 Speaker 1: year old that time 800 00:37:53,530 --> 00:37:55,450 Speaker 1: who's classmate had Covid. And that's why I put all 801 00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:57,219 Speaker 1: of us. So I think you're right. I mean the 802 00:37:57,219 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: risk is real for all the age groups. But I 803 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,950 Speaker 1: think for me there's a real social practicality that is 804 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:05,370 Speaker 1: lay it into all of this is you're making whether 805 00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:07,390 Speaker 1: I like it or not. And there's a part of 806 00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:09,550 Speaker 1: me that feels a little bit annoyed that I have 807 00:38:09,550 --> 00:38:10,940 Speaker 1: to make that kind of decision. 808 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: But I think that's the realities of living in Covid. 809 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: We're all living in these uncertain times and were forced 810 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: to do things and make considerations that we wouldn't otherwise 811 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,250 Speaker 1: make on a good year. 812 00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:24,299 Speaker 1: And um and it would give you greater assurance. I 813 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: think sometimes just having a decision made for us, it 814 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: takes one thing off the table because it's linked to 815 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: so many things here in Singapore. It's not just about 816 00:38:33,370 --> 00:38:35,569 Speaker 1: a medical choice that I make. It is a social 817 00:38:35,570 --> 00:38:36,450 Speaker 1: choice that I'm making. 818 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,190 Speaker 1: Thanks to our guests has promised the results of our poll. 819 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: Part of 2900 instagram followers, 62% said they would get 820 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,620 Speaker 1: the vaccine for the kids for the remaining said they 821 00:38:49,630 --> 00:38:53,300 Speaker 1: would not one follower said there aren't enough statistics for 822 00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: me to risk my Children, another said yes, but with 823 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,950 Speaker 1: great anxiety as it's largely untested and then their parents 824 00:39:00,950 --> 00:39:04,020 Speaker 1: who said yes simply for the safety of my child 825 00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: and other people around her. Now we will be taking 826 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,780 Speaker 1: a long season break, but we will return in january 827 00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: with a very special four part series. Stop lighting on 828 00:39:13,770 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: issues close to the hearts of our youths, where I'll 829 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,969 Speaker 1: be joined not only by experts to talk about mental health, 830 00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:21,140 Speaker 1: race in Singapore, 831 00:39:21,219 --> 00:39:24,910 Speaker 1: Climate action and finding your first job, but also student 832 00:39:24,910 --> 00:39:28,250 Speaker 1: co host for post some of their generations. Burning questions 833 00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:29,740 Speaker 1: on these topics. 834 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,790 Speaker 1: Until next time, I'm Lynn struggling with Christina robert, our 835 00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:36,450 Speaker 1: podcast editor and Aaron Low, our research writer signing off. 836 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,180 Speaker 1: Yeah.