Speaker 1: This is a C N A podcast.
Speaker 1: When you think of food waste. What images come to mind,
Speaker 1: overflowing garbage bins filled with spoiled leftovers, rejected fruit and
Speaker 1: vegetable peels or landfill where mountains of rotting food waste
Speaker 1: emit methane gas. Here's a not so fun fact.
Speaker 1: Bread is one of the most wasted foods. No, thanks
Speaker 1: to its short shelf life. Globally. Almost 900,000 tons of
Speaker 1: bread is thrown away annually. That's around 24 million slices
Speaker 1: every day. Throwing food away is a serious problem. It
Speaker 1: makes up about 12% of the total waste generated in Singapore.
Speaker 1: And among that, only 19% gets recycled.
Speaker 1: But one startup has a solution making beer from surplus bread. Today,
Speaker 1: you'll hear from the ceo of crust. Traven. Sing his
Speaker 1: startup crust looks at how you can make drinks from
Speaker 1: food waste. Welcome to the climate conversations. Traven. Good to
Speaker 1: see
Speaker 2: you. Thanks for having me. Let's
Speaker 1: start with the story of the birth of crust. How
Speaker 1: did this idea of, of slime
Speaker 1: surplus bread into beer? Come
Speaker 2: about when I was a kid. So I come from
Speaker 2: a family where if we don't finish the entire meal
Speaker 2: my mom gonna incorporate today's meal into something new tomorrow.
Speaker 2: She did not do that because she was a sustainability
Speaker 2: of a kid or anything. She had no idea what
Speaker 2: sustainability even meant, but she did it because we did
Speaker 2: not come from much and she had to maximize her resources.
Speaker 2: So I would say the up cycling idea came from that.
Speaker 2: Why be why the beverage industry and all it was
Speaker 2: more out of interest is I guess
Speaker 2: the playground that I thought I could really come and
Speaker 2: help with or bring something more fun. And that's what happened,
Speaker 2: I guess I love food and beverage in general. I
Speaker 2: like the concept of how something so simple can also
Speaker 2: be a lot more complex, right? And vice versa. And
Speaker 2: I also definitely was home brewing for a while before
Speaker 2: I started crust. So I already knew how to make
Speaker 2: my own beers and everything. And I started doing my
Speaker 2: own R and D s and then I went on
Speaker 2: social media, built a company profile before I even had
Speaker 2: any company and started just posting about my home brew
Speaker 2: batches and
Speaker 2: started getting quite a bit of traction. And then that
Speaker 2: was when I just went to Akron company.
Speaker 1: Then I see you did mention that your mom had
Speaker 1: a bit of an influence. But what got you started
Speaker 1: to care so much about food waste. What did you
Speaker 1: want to make a difference? Why
Speaker 2: food or like why sustainability or maybe even why environmental
Speaker 2: concerns is,
Speaker 2: I don't think it would have been interesting enough for
Speaker 2: me to start a company that was not really bringing
Speaker 2: a solution to the market. I didn't just want to
Speaker 2: start like a restaurant, for example. Right. Or anything else
Speaker 2: that is very sme based, I want to really bring
Speaker 2: a real solution to the market. I think the food
Speaker 2: part came from birth and then when you dive a
Speaker 2: bit deeper, this was before even the product into the market.
Speaker 2: When I was doing a lot more research about food
Speaker 2: waste and then when you become more informed, you realize
Speaker 2: how significant of a problem it is, right? And I
Speaker 2: guess make sure that you want to do more and
Speaker 2: that became sort of my
Speaker 1: purpose. Yeah, bring that story to life through beer is
Speaker 1: really inspiring. But Travis walk us through the process, you know,
Speaker 1: from the collection to making the beer. So
Speaker 2: of course, when we first started what we did was
Speaker 2: to connect small amounts from different bakeries.
Speaker 2: Then we realized it was intern not really economical, right?
Speaker 2: But then at the same time, not really environmental. So
Speaker 2: what we did was we started identifying much larger companies.
Speaker 2: So we'll give like Gardenia for example, right? And then
Speaker 2: we just have one collection point. We collect the surplus
Speaker 2: from there and
Speaker 1: these are fresh bread, right. Correct.
Speaker 2: So we only use unused and unsold sir. Blast. We
Speaker 2: do not use those consumption stuff.
Speaker 2: And we don't just do beer anymore. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if a lot of people know that we're going to
Speaker 2: launch a second brand called Crop. Crop is our sparkling soda.
Speaker 2: So it's non alcohol. And for that one, we actually
Speaker 2: up cycle mostly fruits and vegetable. Whereas for crust, the
Speaker 2: beer side, we actually don't just give bread. We actually
Speaker 2: work with rice as well. We have even done a
Speaker 2: pumpkin and key to a beer. We've done a coffee beer.
Speaker 2: We've done a pineapple beer. We've even done an apple
Speaker 2: peel beer and everything.
Speaker 2: Also a plus, it's pre consumption unused and unsold. So
Speaker 2: for the beer side of things, what we extract is
Speaker 2: the sugar content from bread and rice to replace our grains.
Speaker 2: So of course, when we do the collection of the bread,
Speaker 2: we just have to make sure that it is in
Speaker 2: the right condition, right environment. And in the delivery process
Speaker 2: is also in the right manner, making sure that then
Speaker 2: the bread is also in the right size so that
Speaker 2: we can extract as much sugar content out of it.
Speaker 2: And then
Speaker 2: of course, we go to the brewery and then we
Speaker 2: make up beers there and then we package it after
Speaker 2: then we distributed. So
Speaker 1: you are experimenting with different things now, but obviously, crust
Speaker 1: is no more for cycling bread. So to date how
Speaker 1: much bread has your company saved from being wasted and
Speaker 1: more importantly, how many happy beer bellies have you served
Speaker 2: So far? We have actually saved, I think close to
Speaker 2: 2500 kg of
Speaker 2: bread in Singapore, Japan. I don't really have the number
Speaker 2: at the top of my mind right now. So in Japan,
Speaker 2: we are still doing a proof of concept there. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're probably going to do a proper launch once we
Speaker 2: get our license later this year.
Speaker 1: So from beer to bread, I'm sure many of us
Speaker 1: just wondering what does it taste like? What's been the
Speaker 1: feedback from the drinkers and the industry? So
Speaker 2: if you think that the beer's gonna taste different, like
Speaker 2: how alternative protein tastes very different from like actual meat,
Speaker 2: then you will be disappointed because it tastes more or
Speaker 2: less like whatever the market already has. So we make
Speaker 2: sure to always not have to educate our consumers when
Speaker 2: they try new product. So the idea from the R
Speaker 2: and D standpoint was to make a product that already
Speaker 2: tastes like what the market already is used to. And generally,
Speaker 2: I mean, early on, we had some constructive feedback about
Speaker 2: the product at the moment right now, generally, we have
Speaker 2: got really good feedback on the product so
Speaker 1: far. Okay. Does labor change with a different type?
Speaker 2: It does slightly, but we have also done, I think
Speaker 2: probably close to 100 over variations of different combinations. So
Speaker 2: even mixed it with like whole meal, old grain, mixed
Speaker 2: with white. And then we realized that there's a certain
Speaker 2: way of formulating the recipe whereby you can have the
Speaker 2: exact same product but different formulation and it will still
Speaker 2: taste more or less the same. But then of course,
Speaker 2: when you go a bit further and you try a
Speaker 2: rye bread, then rye bread goes really well with like
Speaker 2: a darker
Speaker 2: if you actually try a sour dough bread and it
Speaker 2: actually goes really well with, for example, an I P A.
Speaker 2: So those are just different ways of functioning. Interesting.
Speaker 1: So travel, are you making
Speaker 2: money? Um Yes, we are making, we're not profitable yet
Speaker 2: because unfortunately, we enter the market about three months before COVID.
Speaker 2: So I would even go as far as to say
Speaker 2: that the first three years of the company, I mean,
Speaker 2: the first three months was really good because because so
Speaker 2: much of feedback, so much of good traction and then
Speaker 2: COVID
Speaker 2: came and everything went downhill, right? And we were on
Speaker 2: survival mode for as long as possible. The last six
Speaker 2: months of last year was really, really good for us,
Speaker 2: especially when COVID settling a little bit more and Singapore
Speaker 2: opened up a little bit more. We now tend to
Speaker 2: be first choice when it comes to most major events
Speaker 2: or conferences as a beverage partner because we then realized
Speaker 2: that a lot of them one sustainable supplier. And in
Speaker 2: the beverage industry, we are the only ones that does
Speaker 2: both alcohol and non alcohol sustainably.
Speaker 2: So that's been really great for us. We have a
Speaker 2: B2B model called the Sustainable Unique label. So that's another
Speaker 2: model that we also brought into the company about a
Speaker 2: year ago. And it's our main differentiating factor. So yes,
Speaker 2: we make bread beer. Yes, we also sell the cross brand. Yes,
Speaker 2: we sell through various channels online and offline just like
Speaker 2: any other beverage come.
Speaker 2: But our main differentiating factor is the SQL model whereby
Speaker 2: we actually work with big hotels. Big supermarket is big
Speaker 2: F and B groups, even aviation companies, airlines basically. And
Speaker 2: these are all companies who have their own surplus and
Speaker 2: right now they either throw it away or they donated.
Speaker 2: So what we do through our SQL model is coming
Speaker 2: as the R and D partner up cycled er surplus
Speaker 2: and create their house brand for them.
Speaker 2: So we have actually done a beer with like cold storage.
Speaker 2: We have done with food panda. We've done with Redmart
Speaker 2: in Japan. We have done with like a man, Tokyo Ritz,
Speaker 2: Carlton Osaka and in Singapore right now, we're also talking
Speaker 2: to a few other hotels.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. My collaboration seems to be the key here. It
Speaker 1: sounds like a dragon. But I wonder, do you face
Speaker 1: a dilemma though? I mean, you're producing beer from bread waste,
Speaker 1: but you're also hoping to reduce or eliminate waste completely
Speaker 1: in the future. So how can you sort of deconflict this?
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: we don't just do bread when we speak about food
Speaker 2: waste in general, we make sure that it's really food waste.
Speaker 2: But we also know that there's some
Speaker 2: limitations or different types of food that can only use
Speaker 2: for beer and hence crop came into the picture because
Speaker 2: the same hotels, supermarket that I'm going to up cycle
Speaker 2: and create the house brand for them while up cycling
Speaker 2: their bread out price, I can now work with the
Speaker 2: fruits as well to create a non alcohol brand for them.
Speaker 2: And we give other companies an avenue to reduce food
Speaker 2: waste or fight this fight with us through Crust Group.
Speaker 2: So that's one way another way of trying to make
Speaker 2: sure that we deconflict ourselves and also making sure that
Speaker 2: when profits come into the picture and we eventually turn profitable,
Speaker 2: I will not have a shareholders meeting or board meeting
Speaker 2: where profit is the only thing that is mentioned, why
Speaker 2: forgetting environmental and social concerns. So being be cop so
Speaker 2: be corporation is a certification unknown worldwide where if you
Speaker 2: do get be Cops certified, it means you're environmentally and
Speaker 2: socially extremely responsible. But the good thing about being be
Speaker 2: cops certified is that you have to re certify yourself
Speaker 2: once every three years, which means essentially in a nutshell,
Speaker 2: you cannot sway to the dark side. We took us
Speaker 2: 18 months to get B Corp certification,
Speaker 2: but we're very adamant that it was the right decision
Speaker 2: to do. And in the process, we tighten a lot
Speaker 2: of our loose ends also and make sure that everything
Speaker 2: that we do, we question and we make sure that
Speaker 2: we reduce our carbon footprint also.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting because, you know, read some reports saying
Speaker 1: brewing is not exactly the most sustainable practice. It takes
Speaker 1: a lot of water energy from fermentation process and when
Speaker 1: the brewing is done, there's obviously undrinkable water and spent
Speaker 1: grains as so I wonder how
Speaker 1: you're approaching your sustainability practice as a company. So
Speaker 2: everything you mentioned is absolutely correct. And that's exactly why
Speaker 2: we started cross group also, right. There's so many alternative
Speaker 2: companies right now, but mostly the meatspace, there's alternative chicken, beef, fish,
Speaker 2: seafood right now in the beverage space, that is really
Speaker 2: only an alternative for milk, not so much in the
Speaker 2: alcohol industry and also not so much in the soda industry.
Speaker 2: And that's the playground that we
Speaker 2: basically coming in to help it started with up cycling,
Speaker 2: but cycling is not the only way that we can
Speaker 2: reduce our carbon footprint. What we have also done in
Speaker 2: Singapore is to use locally grown produce. So when I
Speaker 2: talk about locally grown produce, right? What I mean is
Speaker 2: we have done one beer in Singapore that is called
Speaker 2: Central and is in collaboration with Gardens by the Bay.
Speaker 2: And for that beer, we actually replace a good amount
Speaker 2: of our hops with a botanical grown at gardens by
Speaker 2: and it's a botanical called Lemon Myrtle. Another botanical that
Speaker 2: we've also worked with is um Raja. So this is
Speaker 2: other avenues where we have constantly looked at every single
Speaker 2: ingredient that it takes to make our beverages. And we
Speaker 2: see what we can do that could help reduce our carbon.
Speaker 2: So it's not just R and D innovation is actually
Speaker 2: supply chain as well. Making sure that you understand your
Speaker 2: supply chain is really key. And the more botanicals I
Speaker 2: can find in Singapore, maybe even in Japan,
Speaker 2: I don't have to then fly hops in huge amount
Speaker 2: in from overseas to Singapore. So that also helps to
Speaker 2: reduce our carbon from the water side of things. We
Speaker 2: contra manufacturer, we don't really own any of the assets
Speaker 2: that so many production facility worldwide that right now are
Speaker 2: not maximizing the capacity, I would say maybe at best,
Speaker 2: they are maximizing 30-60 or 70% of their capacity. And
Speaker 2: that's why we did not even bother with our own
Speaker 2: production
Speaker 2: because that will also add to our carbon. But it
Speaker 2: makes us so asset heavy. So we engage existing production
Speaker 2: facilities worldwide and we help them maximize their capacity. Another
Speaker 2: alternative that you brought up earlier was spent green, very
Speaker 2: valid point. Right. Again, spent grain right now is mostly
Speaker 2: used as animal feed. This is a bit more harsh, harsh,
Speaker 2: but that crust we actually did some internal R and
Speaker 2: D and we converted our spent grain into
Speaker 2: to a pancake mix. And right now, we are exploring
Speaker 2: a granola bar as well. So we most likely will
Speaker 2: not be stopping at just beverage.
Speaker 1: Absoluteal. Not right. And your goal actually is to reduce 1%
Speaker 1: of global food waste by 2030. Are you on track
Speaker 1: to hit this target? It's just what, seven years away.
Speaker 2: Um Yeah, we're not really on target right now but
Speaker 2: why we had that goal initially was so that everybody
Speaker 2: in the camp,
Speaker 2: I could focus a lot of our business model on
Speaker 2: collaboration because collectively, while working supermarkets, hotels, aviation companies, the
Speaker 2: big FMB groups, we will inch closer to the 1% goal.
Speaker 1: Just how challenging is. It just can you just give
Speaker 1: us a sense of how hard it is? What sort
Speaker 1: of hurdles that you're facing and anticipating every
Speaker 2: day is a challenge? I think as long as you
Speaker 2: constantly focus on innovation every day.
Speaker 2: It's really a challenge, right? Understanding your delivery points and
Speaker 2: how many are there? Understanding the supply chain, understanding your
Speaker 2: raw materials, understanding, alternative, understanding different recipe and formulation and processes,
Speaker 2: understanding what the market already has and what elects right now,
Speaker 2: understanding what you have and what you like right now
Speaker 2: and then going on day to day and then fundraising
Speaker 2: on top of that, right? And trying to explain to
Speaker 2: the investors with regards to up cycling. So every day
Speaker 2: is a
Speaker 2: challenge, I do not know where to start, but at
Speaker 2: least I know I was closer to my goal today
Speaker 2: than I was yesterday. That's
Speaker 1: a long list right there at Traven. But I wonder
Speaker 1: what gives you hope? I mean, what sort of opportunities
Speaker 1: do you see for food entrepreneurship, to empower systems and
Speaker 1: communities towards a more sustainable future in the
Speaker 2: last six months? You know, we have had a lot
Speaker 2: of inbound, a lot of companies are coming to us
Speaker 2: for what we have to offer so that in itself
Speaker 2: keeps
Speaker 2: just a week and night, right? And make sure that
Speaker 2: we wake up early in the morning to do what
Speaker 2: we do. And in Japan, for example, in Singapore, we
Speaker 2: don't really work with farms and farmers. But in Japan,
Speaker 2: we have the opportunity to work with farms and farmers
Speaker 2: and seeing how they see hope for their end product
Speaker 2: that they have put in so much of time and
Speaker 2: resources to grow or make because we are coming to
Speaker 2: the picture. Right? Also gives us hope. Of course, a
Speaker 2: lot of it has got to do with internal motivation,
Speaker 2: but usually when you start your own company, that's all
Speaker 2: a lot of internal motivation. But when we collaborate with
Speaker 2: other partners and we see that they're really happy with
Speaker 2: the product and it does really well or other farmers
Speaker 2: as well, who knows that they're ugly. Produce is not
Speaker 2: really going to go to waste. There will be a
Speaker 2: second life for it instead of the bin also gives
Speaker 2: us a lot more hope.
Speaker 1: I mean, as a food waste warrior, what do you
Speaker 1: think is the answer to this global issue of food waste?
Speaker 1: Did you come across any initiatives or innovation that you thought? Wow,
Speaker 1: that's going to be a game changer. I think there's
Speaker 2: no one solution to world problems, right? I think what
Speaker 2: the world really needs is everybody to just come together
Speaker 2: and do a part. I'm not in the clean energy sector.
Speaker 2: So I can't say for sure what's the best solution there?
Speaker 2: And I think we believe that the future of food
Speaker 2: should be more collaborative and less competitive. Then it's as
Speaker 2: simple as that, right? We would actually find more business
Speaker 2: models that collaborate instead of compete because a lot of
Speaker 2: competing business models are at the detriment of environmental and
Speaker 2: social causes. So I think that is where our North
Speaker 2: Star is
Speaker 1: Before I let you go. What sort of ambitions do
Speaker 1: you have for crust in the next 5 to 10 years?
Speaker 1: And how do you see your business growing? I think
Speaker 2: in apec, we don't really have an up cycling movement.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of alternative protein but a lot of people,
Speaker 2: a lot of disease as well. A lot of individuals
Speaker 2: don't really understand up cycling in Asia Pacific. There's a
Speaker 2: larger trend in I would say in the U S
Speaker 2: or different parts of Europe in the U K. And
Speaker 2: we want to pioneer that sort of movement here in
Speaker 2: Asia Pacific and show that food waste.
Speaker 2: It's a viable problem. It's a huge problem and the
Speaker 2: solution that we're bringing into the market is also a
Speaker 2: really viable solution. Why do you
Speaker 1: think that is that there's a bit of a slow
Speaker 1: take up when it comes to up cycling? Lack of
Speaker 1: understanding education,
Speaker 2: I guess various factor maybe from a Singapore context, for instance, right, again,
Speaker 2: we don't have farms and farmers here. So none of
Speaker 2: us who grew up, born and bred in Singapore have
Speaker 2: actually seen the amount of resources, the amount of manpower
Speaker 2: inefficiencies that actually goes into creating or
Speaker 2: growing something. So it becomes really second nature for us
Speaker 2: to just throw something away without even having to think
Speaker 2: about it. So that's why when you up cycle, a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't really understand the concept of why
Speaker 2: the need when you asked that question earlier. So are
Speaker 2: you using unused unsold? And I said yes, a lot
Speaker 2: of companies and a lot of Singaporeans also don't really
Speaker 2: understand that a lot of our food risk comes operationally.
Speaker 2: It comes from supermarkets, it comes from hotels and they
Speaker 2: are trying their best to predict consumer demands,
Speaker 2: but you're never on track all the time. So there
Speaker 2: will always be food waste operationally and that's where we
Speaker 2: come into the picture. But I think cross, even though
Speaker 2: the Singaporean company, I also do think that a lot
Speaker 2: of the greater work that we will do will come
Speaker 2: overseas in markets where there are farms and farmers also
Speaker 2: because those are really large markets where we can come
Speaker 2: in and help to reduce a significant amount of food
Speaker 2: waste compared to Singapore. So different markets, our role is
Speaker 2: slightly different, but the endgame is the same.
Speaker 1: All right. So when it comes to innovative ideas and
Speaker 1: of course, environmentally friendly. BR I think that's definitely something
Speaker 1: we can all drink to. Thank you very much traveling
Speaker 1: for joining me today, sharing your story. It's been very inspirational.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks to my guest, Traven Sing and thanks to
Speaker 1: all of you for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode. Do remember to subscribe and like this podcast. So,
Speaker 1: you know, when a new episode drops, you can find
Speaker 1: Ciena's climate and sustainability coverage online at Sienna dot Asia
Speaker 1: the team behind this podcast is Joanne Chan Cyan win,
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Chan and Christina Robert and I'm Julie, you signing off.