1 00:00:02,910 --> 00:00:05,319 Speaker 1: Someone needs to be the house husband. Right? You OK. 2 00:00:05,530 --> 00:00:08,189 Speaker 1: Oh my God. Thank you. 3 00:00:09,140 --> 00:00:10,380 Speaker 2: Tomorrow. I like 4 00:00:10,439 --> 00:00:10,539 Speaker 1: I 5 00:00:11,159 --> 00:00:14,529 Speaker 1: got invited by a senior to sing for his recital. 6 00:00:14,539 --> 00:00:17,709 Speaker 1: He said I want every single guy in the audience, 7 00:00:17,719 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: especially the ones with a girlfriend to wish they were 8 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:26,250 Speaker 1: bringing you home. That's a bit extreme. This guy when 9 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,290 Speaker 1: I see men carry umbrellas now, I feel very 10 00:00:36,918 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: hi, everyone and welcome back to the hot pot where 11 00:00:39,009 --> 00:00:42,068 Speaker 1: we hop into different transitions in life. I'm k, I'm Nick, 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,008 Speaker 1: I'm Joey. 13 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:45,458 Speaker 2: And today we have two very special guests with us. 14 00:00:45,470 --> 00:00:48,810 Speaker 2: They are no strangers to the channel. It is Foy 15 00:00:49,150 --> 00:00:50,169 Speaker 2: and Ida. 16 00:00:53,619 --> 00:00:57,150 Speaker 2: Wow. You can see that Isaac and see 17 00:00:59,119 --> 00:01:00,939 Speaker 1: my friends. We're 18 00:01:01,180 --> 00:01:01,970 Speaker 1: not friends. 19 00:01:02,009 --> 00:01:02,970 Speaker 2: Ok. Thank you. I know you. 20 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:08,527 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Fauzi. I identify as a queen. 21 00:01:08,688 --> 00:01:09,278 Speaker 1: Yeah. Hi, 22 00:01:09,289 --> 00:01:13,518 Speaker 1: I'm Ida. I identify as Malay. What do I say 23 00:01:13,528 --> 00:01:16,179 Speaker 1: with these things? For those who don't know, they are 24 00:01:16,188 --> 00:01:19,167 Speaker 1: our cousins from this channel. They're from code. If you 25 00:01:19,179 --> 00:01:21,228 Speaker 1: don't know what code rate is, please go check it 26 00:01:21,238 --> 00:01:23,329 Speaker 1: out after this episode, you watch our first, then you 27 00:01:23,337 --> 00:01:24,049 Speaker 1: go watch them 28 00:01:24,058 --> 00:01:25,799 Speaker 2: and if you remember that episode where we had Isaac 29 00:01:25,808 --> 00:01:26,528 Speaker 2: and C 30 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:29,730 Speaker 2: on the Hot Pot. They are in the same show 31 00:01:29,739 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: as Isaac and 32 00:01:30,569 --> 00:01:30,699 Speaker 1: they're 33 00:01:30,709 --> 00:01:33,089 Speaker 1: always fighting and Ida is always winning the, oh 34 00:01:33,139 --> 00:01:33,540 Speaker 2: my God, 35 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,410 Speaker 2: can we talk about that? I am 36 00:01:38,220 --> 00:01:42,949 Speaker 2: literally the epitome of not fulfilling the gender stereotype because 37 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:44,949 Speaker 2: I keep losing. OK, guys. So today we're gonna be 38 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,589 Speaker 2: talking about something that almost everyone can relate to gender 39 00:01:48,599 --> 00:01:52,150 Speaker 2: stereotypes that exist in our everyday lives and how that 40 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,250 Speaker 2: has evolved throughout the years to start things 41 00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:54,550 Speaker 2: off. 42 00:01:54,559 --> 00:01:56,660 Speaker 1: What are some common gender stereotypes that you guys know? 43 00:01:56,669 --> 00:01:58,930 Speaker 1: I think girls, you have to sit a certain way. 44 00:01:58,940 --> 00:02:00,690 Speaker 1: You got to speak a certain way. I was gonna 45 00:02:00,699 --> 00:02:02,690 Speaker 1: say sit like a girl. What does that ever mean? 46 00:02:02,970 --> 00:02:04,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, you should see how I see that. You see 47 00:02:04,889 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: like a girl like Ida, right? You're worse than a 48 00:02:07,129 --> 00:02:09,139 Speaker 1: man stereotype right there. 49 00:02:10,518 --> 00:02:11,768 Speaker 2: Someone has actually said that to you. 50 00:02:11,779 --> 00:02:17,048 Speaker 1: Me. Yeah. Yeah. My parents are right. When you, when 51 00:02:17,059 --> 00:02:19,029 Speaker 1: you eat at home, you tend to put up your 52 00:02:19,038 --> 00:02:20,377 Speaker 1: leg on the stool, right? 53 00:02:21,729 --> 00:02:23,878 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't, I don't 54 00:02:23,929 --> 00:02:27,089 Speaker 1: got a culture right here because we were forced to 55 00:02:27,098 --> 00:02:28,699 Speaker 1: close our legs all the 56 00:02:28,708 --> 00:02:29,179 Speaker 1: time. 57 00:02:29,188 --> 00:02:32,018 Speaker 2: I don't really like to open my actually, neither do I, 58 00:02:32,029 --> 00:02:33,848 Speaker 2: I don't like to men spread. I feel like men 59 00:02:33,858 --> 00:02:36,518 Speaker 2: spreading is just like no, as a no, I feel 60 00:02:36,529 --> 00:02:38,857 Speaker 2: I've been conditioned to like sit 61 00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:43,490 Speaker 2: straight and confidently, maybe in, in some way it is 62 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,050 Speaker 2: a by product of what certain expectations that men have. 63 00:02:48,059 --> 00:02:49,418 Speaker 1: So you just want to go against it. You want 64 00:02:49,429 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: to be not the other boys. 65 00:02:50,449 --> 00:02:50,589 Speaker 2: No, 66 00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:54,038 Speaker 2: I mean, like men have to be also proper but 67 00:02:54,050 --> 00:02:57,029 Speaker 2: in a different way. But you are a gentleman, you're 68 00:02:57,038 --> 00:03:00,948 Speaker 2: supposed to exude a sense of like a leader. You 69 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,209 Speaker 2: have to be someone who's just in charge cannot be 70 00:03:04,220 --> 00:03:07,300 Speaker 2: too emotional. Oh my God, actually, on that note, right? 71 00:03:07,309 --> 00:03:07,869 Speaker 2: The 72 00:03:08,429 --> 00:03:13,470 Speaker 2: being emotional also and showing emotional vulnerability, like the perception 73 00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:16,490 Speaker 2: is that men shouldn't or cannot. That's a stereotype, right? 74 00:03:16,758 --> 00:03:19,029 Speaker 2: But I think everybody on this couch is very in 75 00:03:19,038 --> 00:03:20,339 Speaker 2: tune with the emotions. Oh my 76 00:03:20,350 --> 00:03:23,550 Speaker 1: God, I wouldn't say I am let me that. 77 00:03:25,419 --> 00:03:27,729 Speaker 1: But it's really because of like gender stereotypes. I feel 78 00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: like I don't want to be seen as like, oh 79 00:03:30,089 --> 00:03:31,729 Speaker 1: she's crying because she's a girl. Of course she will 80 00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:36,250 Speaker 1: cry about this or Yeah. So I just naturally I 81 00:03:36,259 --> 00:03:38,809 Speaker 1: try not to, it's like Taylor Swift song, the man 82 00:03:38,820 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: you just compare me to Taylor Swift. 83 00:03:41,919 --> 00:03:46,380 Speaker 2: I mean, I I openly admit that I cry quite 84 00:03:46,389 --> 00:03:50,250 Speaker 2: often just because I'm very emotional as an individual. In fact, 85 00:03:50,475 --> 00:03:52,785 Speaker 2: I am that person who will watch a movie and 86 00:03:52,794 --> 00:03:56,035 Speaker 2: so very loudly in the cinema, like I will curl 87 00:03:56,044 --> 00:03:58,865 Speaker 2: up on the cinema seat and cry how to make 88 00:03:58,875 --> 00:04:00,195 Speaker 2: the oh my God a million times. 89 00:04:01,684 --> 00:04:06,023 Speaker 1: Nicholas grandmother did a million times. I have to make millions. 90 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:11,070 Speaker 2: I feel like nowadays I feel it's not as bad 91 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,470 Speaker 2: to be seen crying as a guy. I grew up 92 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:19,850 Speaker 2: in a very masculine environment. So I think there were 93 00:04:19,859 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 2: things that were taught to me to not. Do you 94 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:24,308 Speaker 2: have a lot of brothers? Right. Gosh, not only do 95 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,029 Speaker 2: I have a lot of brothers? I have four brothers 96 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,690 Speaker 2: for context. I also grew up in 10 years of 97 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:33,268 Speaker 2: boy school. Yeah, 10 years of being in a boy school, right? 98 00:04:33,709 --> 00:04:36,420 Speaker 2: Really kind of did something to me. We went to 99 00:04:36,428 --> 00:04:37,450 Speaker 2: the same secondary school. 100 00:04:37,459 --> 00:04:37,690 Speaker 1: Did 101 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:39,779 Speaker 1: you feel the need to like, you know, I have 102 00:04:39,790 --> 00:04:42,609 Speaker 1: to be this certain way because everyone keeps like, like 103 00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:44,589 Speaker 1: hunting me for these things, right? Did you feel like, 104 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,169 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna try to be a bit 105 00:04:46,178 --> 00:04:46,910 Speaker 1: more chill 106 00:04:48,029 --> 00:04:49,890 Speaker 2: for sure. I feel like there were moments. But I 107 00:04:49,899 --> 00:04:52,410 Speaker 2: think until I found a group of people who I 108 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:56,849 Speaker 2: truly could be myself around, then I could kind of 109 00:04:56,859 --> 00:04:59,469 Speaker 2: unlock myself. When did that start happening? I think I 110 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,289 Speaker 2: went to JC and then I met 111 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,100 Speaker 2: girls for the first time and I felt like I 112 00:05:04,109 --> 00:05:08,768 Speaker 2: was more in sync, being friends with more girls. I 113 00:05:08,779 --> 00:05:11,950 Speaker 2: felt like there was more things that we could talk about. 114 00:05:11,959 --> 00:05:11,988 Speaker 1: I 115 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,500 Speaker 1: feel like another stereotype with masculinity and femininity is that 116 00:05:16,510 --> 00:05:18,678 Speaker 1: men are the ones who put in the hard work, 117 00:05:18,690 --> 00:05:21,179 Speaker 1: the labor, like physical manual labor 118 00:05:21,730 --> 00:05:23,909 Speaker 1: and then women are just like caretakers and if you 119 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,238 Speaker 1: need to fix something, then you ask the guy now 120 00:05:26,250 --> 00:05:28,868 Speaker 1: change quite a bit. I think it's changed so much. 121 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,390 Speaker 1: The thing is right. I feel like men have adopted 122 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: a lot of, like, more feminine qualities, but I'm not 123 00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:35,750 Speaker 1: sure if I can say the same thing about the 124 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,909 Speaker 1: general female because I males are like, oh, you got 125 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: to take care of your child 126 00:05:38,545 --> 00:05:40,034 Speaker 1: just because you go to work 9 to 5 does 127 00:05:40,045 --> 00:05:42,024 Speaker 1: mean you can't come home and wash the dishes. But 128 00:05:42,035 --> 00:05:44,325 Speaker 1: like no one really says that about females like you 129 00:05:44,334 --> 00:05:45,614 Speaker 1: go to work 9 to 5, you come back, you 130 00:05:45,625 --> 00:05:48,433 Speaker 1: change the light, but nobody really says it. But I 131 00:05:48,445 --> 00:05:52,984 Speaker 1: think we are given more spaces and roles in power 132 00:05:52,994 --> 00:05:55,234 Speaker 1: in the workforce as a result of the 133 00:05:55,940 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: accepting females in more male dominant spaces. True, true. But 134 00:06:01,049 --> 00:06:04,910 Speaker 1: we are also given more space to really embrace our femininity. 135 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: I feel. Yeah, 136 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: I was just thinking that like, yeah, I have embraced 137 00:06:09,049 --> 00:06:11,899 Speaker 2: femininity now. I use some block and my skin care, 138 00:06:12,329 --> 00:06:13,630 Speaker 2: skin care game quite strong 139 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:16,099 Speaker 2: can be stronger. But 140 00:06:16,238 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of like straight male friends, right? 141 00:06:18,049 --> 00:06:19,649 Speaker 1: Who were like I would say if you're going out, 142 00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:21,059 Speaker 1: can you like wear sun block? And then they will 143 00:06:21,070 --> 00:06:24,399 Speaker 1: say for what sir, I'm a man imagine thinking you're 144 00:06:24,410 --> 00:06:25,649 Speaker 1: stronger than the sun. 145 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: But also like, ok, like what, first of all these 146 00:06:30,488 --> 00:06:33,420 Speaker 2: things shouldn't even have genders attached to it. You know 147 00:06:33,428 --> 00:06:35,899 Speaker 2: what I mean? At this point of our lives. Right. 148 00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:37,649 Speaker 2: We should realize that a lot of these things that 149 00:06:37,660 --> 00:06:41,909 Speaker 2: we do are very functional, right? They shouldn't be for 150 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,269 Speaker 2: guys or for girls. Exactly. And I always found it 151 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: very interesting that there are certain consumer products, right, that 152 00:06:48,619 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: is marketed towards men or marketed towards women. But they 153 00:06:51,769 --> 00:06:52,130 Speaker 2: function 154 00:06:52,322 --> 00:06:54,243 Speaker 2: is the same thing like a razor, 155 00:06:54,433 --> 00:06:55,952 Speaker 1: pink, pink tax. 156 00:06:56,683 --> 00:06:59,752 Speaker 2: So like a pink razor, then they market it as 157 00:06:59,963 --> 00:07:01,751 Speaker 2: for women and it's 158 00:07:02,322 --> 00:07:02,792 Speaker 1: more expensive 159 00:07:03,023 --> 00:07:05,472 Speaker 2: and then like the same razor for men, then the 160 00:07:05,483 --> 00:07:09,882 Speaker 2: language that they use is like extra fresh power. Cool. Yeah, 161 00:07:09,893 --> 00:07:12,722 Speaker 2: like then it's the same thing. Something else that I 162 00:07:12,733 --> 00:07:15,143 Speaker 2: think comes up very often, right? When we talk about 163 00:07:15,153 --> 00:07:17,662 Speaker 2: gender stereotypes is male privilege, how 164 00:07:18,446 --> 00:07:22,436 Speaker 2: they all think it is now and has it gotten better? 165 00:07:22,446 --> 00:07:22,735 Speaker 2: Is it 166 00:07:22,746 --> 00:07:23,355 Speaker 2: worse? 167 00:07:23,425 --> 00:07:27,325 Speaker 1: I think people acknowledge it more now but nothing much 168 00:07:27,335 --> 00:07:30,605 Speaker 1: has changed or maybe the changes aren't very obvious yet. 169 00:07:30,615 --> 00:07:32,346 Speaker 1: So I think like things at home, right? I think 170 00:07:32,355 --> 00:07:34,436 Speaker 1: very simple things would be like if I were to 171 00:07:34,446 --> 00:07:37,145 Speaker 1: go home late, there's a certain expectation where like, ok, 172 00:07:37,235 --> 00:07:39,075 Speaker 1: you don't come home so late. But then when my 173 00:07:39,085 --> 00:07:42,006 Speaker 1: brother does it, he's seven years younger, but it's the 174 00:07:42,015 --> 00:07:43,395 Speaker 1: lack of like 175 00:07:44,209 --> 00:07:47,049 Speaker 1: being strict towards my brother. Does it mean that they 176 00:07:47,059 --> 00:07:49,190 Speaker 1: feel like I can't protect myself as well as my 177 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:49,869 Speaker 1: brother can 178 00:07:49,929 --> 00:07:50,140 Speaker 2: do you 179 00:07:50,149 --> 00:07:52,750 Speaker 2: think that there's a gender thing or like a bias towards, 180 00:07:53,570 --> 00:07:55,859 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a gender thing because I have 181 00:07:55,869 --> 00:07:57,859 Speaker 1: said before, how come my brother can come home at 182 00:07:57,869 --> 00:08:00,019 Speaker 1: whatever time he wants? But I'm expected to come home 183 00:08:00,029 --> 00:08:02,070 Speaker 1: at a certain time and it's always like, 184 00:08:02,470 --> 00:08:05,700 Speaker 1: but you're a go I can relate to this because 185 00:08:05,709 --> 00:08:09,350 Speaker 1: my father is exactly like your parents, Johan. This is 186 00:08:09,359 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: for you, Kim Cha, this is for you. Um Yeah, 187 00:08:11,929 --> 00:08:15,299 Speaker 1: so Kim Chai has always been someone who, who controlled 188 00:08:15,309 --> 00:08:19,179 Speaker 1: my curfew up to I was like 26 but my 189 00:08:19,190 --> 00:08:21,820 Speaker 1: brother could do it long ago aside from that, right? 190 00:08:21,829 --> 00:08:22,899 Speaker 1: Just to, just to add on 191 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:26,700 Speaker 1: chores wise, my, my brother was not expected to wash 192 00:08:26,709 --> 00:08:28,670 Speaker 1: the dishes. Do you ask why before? As in I 193 00:08:28,679 --> 00:08:32,570 Speaker 1: question and talk back before my mom just like kept 194 00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: quiet about it. Do you think it's just because men, 195 00:08:35,450 --> 00:08:38,330 Speaker 1: I mean, younger boys generally they're not really great at 196 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:39,059 Speaker 1: like chores. 197 00:08:39,359 --> 00:08:42,030 Speaker 2: I'm great at so good at chores. Why are 198 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:42,940 Speaker 1: you feeling? I never 199 00:08:44,020 --> 00:08:45,150 Speaker 2: domesticated? 200 00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:48,580 Speaker 1: But that stems from them not even being taught to 201 00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:51,210 Speaker 1: do the trial. That's true. Men are supposed to be 202 00:08:51,219 --> 00:08:53,580 Speaker 1: taken care of in that sense. That's why I think 203 00:08:53,590 --> 00:08:55,799 Speaker 1: my mom was, my mom was just making sure that 204 00:08:55,809 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: we as women should be the ones doing the chores, 205 00:08:59,210 --> 00:09:01,210 Speaker 1: which I thought was very unfair growing up. I think 206 00:09:01,219 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: the perspective thing, the double standard is very evident, especially 207 00:09:04,890 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: in take, for example, a woman who likes to sleep around, 208 00:09:11,090 --> 00:09:14,380 Speaker 1: she's loose. If a man sleeps around, he just, he's 209 00:09:14,390 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: a player. He likes to test the field. He's in 210 00:09:17,849 --> 00:09:20,799 Speaker 1: his youth in his prime, he's got so much energy, 211 00:09:20,809 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: let him let it loose, you know what will happen. 212 00:09:23,210 --> 00:09:25,020 Speaker 1: So it's been my mission to change that 213 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:28,989 Speaker 1: to everyone. 214 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: It's a joke disclaimer. 215 00:09:32,260 --> 00:09:36,609 Speaker 1: But in terms of your physical appearance and how you dress, 216 00:09:36,619 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: you guys feel the need to be forced into like 217 00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:39,809 Speaker 1: a specific stereotype. 218 00:09:39,820 --> 00:09:40,130 Speaker 2: There's a bit 219 00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:42,609 Speaker 2: of stress because when you try to be a bit 220 00:09:42,619 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 2: more out there in terms of your fashion, right? People 221 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:47,729 Speaker 2: will judge but then if you don't put yourself out there, right? 222 00:09:47,739 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: Then people also judge you, you boring uni 223 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,260 Speaker 2: you wear the Singaporean guy uniform either 224 00:09:53,270 --> 00:09:55,770 Speaker 1: way you're gonna get judged. Yeah, he wears a lot 225 00:09:55,780 --> 00:09:57,510 Speaker 1: of unique law, but he knows how to pick his 226 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,829 Speaker 1: pieces so that he doesn't look too basic wearing and 227 00:10:01,150 --> 00:10:03,039 Speaker 1: tell you what unique glow. 228 00:10:06,539 --> 00:10:09,979 Speaker 2: It's one of those experiences that now that I, I 229 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 2: do double with a little bit of drag that I 230 00:10:12,729 --> 00:10:17,119 Speaker 2: realize that it is fun to kind of just transcend 231 00:10:17,450 --> 00:10:22,608 Speaker 2: typical gender norms, right? It's a sort of performance in 232 00:10:22,619 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: that sense, right? Where you realize that actually, why are 233 00:10:25,119 --> 00:10:28,349 Speaker 2: we so hard up on guys being a certain way, 234 00:10:28,359 --> 00:10:31,119 Speaker 2: girls being a certain way, even with the art of 235 00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: drag right there? Is almost no specific way to be 236 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:39,659 Speaker 2: a drag queen. You can present yourself as a more 237 00:10:39,669 --> 00:10:42,799 Speaker 2: masculine drag queen. That's completely fine in the world I 238 00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:45,030 Speaker 2: exist in, right where 239 00:10:45,416 --> 00:10:51,495 Speaker 2: gender performance is kind of blood, there's no line in between. There, 240 00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:55,085 Speaker 2: there's no black or white. I think it has made 241 00:10:55,096 --> 00:10:57,866 Speaker 2: me more confident in realizing that I don't have to 242 00:10:57,875 --> 00:11:00,165 Speaker 2: be what people expect guys to be. 243 00:11:00,176 --> 00:11:00,366 Speaker 1: It's 244 00:11:00,375 --> 00:11:03,916 Speaker 1: not always necessarily malicious when people judge, they're just not 245 00:11:03,926 --> 00:11:05,445 Speaker 1: used to seeing something that they 246 00:11:05,521 --> 00:11:09,202 Speaker 1: are not conditioned to believe like links with a specific gender. 247 00:11:09,252 --> 00:11:11,641 Speaker 1: Like if a girl wears baggy clothes and then you 248 00:11:11,651 --> 00:11:14,861 Speaker 1: often hear the auntie, you hide your figure actually very skinny, 249 00:11:14,872 --> 00:11:16,731 Speaker 1: they will even sing the shirt and be like you 250 00:11:16,742 --> 00:11:18,420 Speaker 1: see you got was one why you want to hide 251 00:11:18,432 --> 00:11:21,051 Speaker 1: it's upbringing, right? And at what point is it upbringing 252 00:11:21,062 --> 00:11:22,061 Speaker 1: and stereotyping? 253 00:11:22,072 --> 00:11:22,372 Speaker 2: Well, 254 00:11:22,381 --> 00:11:25,572 Speaker 2: actually I saw something very interesting on tiktok recently, right? Where, 255 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:29,950 Speaker 2: why is it normalized for girls to dress like guys 256 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,590 Speaker 2: like boyfriend fit boyfriend jeans, like oversized button down. But 257 00:11:33,599 --> 00:11:36,190 Speaker 2: then it's not the same the other way around for 258 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,409 Speaker 2: guys to wear girls clothes. And the reason is because right, 259 00:11:39,419 --> 00:11:43,020 Speaker 2: it is seen as ok to aspire to be a man, 260 00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:46,489 Speaker 2: but then it's not the same the other way around. Yeah, 261 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:47,468 Speaker 2: quite interesting like 262 00:11:47,479 --> 00:11:47,669 Speaker 1: that 263 00:11:48,010 --> 00:11:48,890 Speaker 1: just don't fit. 264 00:11:50,049 --> 00:11:50,169 Speaker 1: Yeah, 265 00:11:50,309 --> 00:11:53,580 Speaker 2: I think I cannot crop top depending on where you 266 00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:57,250 Speaker 2: grew up. The expectations for different genders are very different. 267 00:11:57,489 --> 00:12:00,859 Speaker 2: I feel like if you're talking about like in the 268 00:12:00,869 --> 00:12:06,469 Speaker 2: Western context, obviously, there is a certain expectation for maybe 269 00:12:06,479 --> 00:12:10,130 Speaker 2: women to be 10 because that makes it makes them 270 00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:12,848 Speaker 2: look sporty. But if you go to East Asia, like 271 00:12:12,859 --> 00:12:15,819 Speaker 2: in Korea, for example, your expectation is for you to 272 00:12:15,830 --> 00:12:16,239 Speaker 2: be 273 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:19,460 Speaker 2: pale white in the sense that I feel like women 274 00:12:19,469 --> 00:12:21,869 Speaker 2: have that pressure to be a certain way. Whereas if 275 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,090 Speaker 2: a man was not kind of align with that cultural expectation, 276 00:12:27,099 --> 00:12:29,030 Speaker 2: people don't really question that. But if a woman, they 277 00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:32,929 Speaker 2: feel like they need to pinpoint what you're doing wrong. 278 00:12:33,059 --> 00:12:35,909 Speaker 1: It's always this concept of like you better prepare yourself. 279 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:37,949 Speaker 1: So that when the right man comes, he will choose you. 280 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:37,979 Speaker 2: I 281 00:12:37,989 --> 00:12:40,929 Speaker 2: think the one time where I really was like, I 282 00:12:40,940 --> 00:12:43,169 Speaker 2: notice people questioning was when I went to poly 283 00:12:43,479 --> 00:12:48,119 Speaker 2: and then because I, I studied mas com, there's 80% female, 20% male. 284 00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:50,330 Speaker 2: So I thought I told like my extended relatives or 285 00:12:50,340 --> 00:12:53,669 Speaker 2: like even like random aunties and uncles, I'm going to 286 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,830 Speaker 2: mas com. Then they will be like, oh then you 287 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: go to the girl course, which is very strange to 288 00:12:58,530 --> 00:12:58,858 Speaker 2: me 289 00:12:59,239 --> 00:13:01,979 Speaker 2: and then even the 20% people will always assume the 290 00:13:01,989 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: sexuality of the 20% of the guys 291 00:13:04,289 --> 00:13:05,909 Speaker 1: because if you're straight and why are you not in 292 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:07,070 Speaker 1: engineering or like 293 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,348 Speaker 2: business like business? Yeah, that kind of thing. I think 294 00:13:10,429 --> 00:13:13,159 Speaker 1: we all have different side to us, I think femininity 295 00:13:13,169 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: and masculinity can exist in both men and women. And 296 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:16,710 Speaker 1: I think they should 297 00:13:17,179 --> 00:13:20,419 Speaker 1: because like, why are they made to be like ying 298 00:13:20,469 --> 00:13:22,369 Speaker 1: and yang or good and bad? There are a lot 299 00:13:22,380 --> 00:13:25,210 Speaker 1: of good in both and I think a balance is important. 300 00:13:25,229 --> 00:13:27,010 Speaker 1: Do you guys think that your childhood played a huge 301 00:13:27,020 --> 00:13:30,728 Speaker 1: part in terms of the stereotypes? For sure. Do you 302 00:13:30,739 --> 00:13:31,690 Speaker 1: remember a specific 303 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:32,049 Speaker 2: thing that 304 00:13:32,059 --> 00:13:32,159 Speaker 1: your 305 00:13:32,169 --> 00:13:32,848 Speaker 2: parents once 306 00:13:32,859 --> 00:13:38,210 Speaker 2: said growing up in environments where masculinity was the expectation? 307 00:13:38,539 --> 00:13:40,140 Speaker 2: Like with my brothers, 308 00:13:41,099 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: we always fought, I was always crying. I was always 309 00:13:45,409 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: called gum bang, which is like the term or cry baby, 310 00:13:49,469 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: which really affected me. I feel like as a kid, right? 311 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:54,299 Speaker 2: I really made me feel like I cannot cry. I 312 00:13:54,309 --> 00:13:56,479 Speaker 2: cannot cry. I need to be tough. I think when 313 00:13:56,489 --> 00:13:58,429 Speaker 2: I grew a bit older and I was a little 314 00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,059 Speaker 2: bit more, 315 00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:02,630 Speaker 2: I say cognizant of the fact that society has all 316 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,419 Speaker 2: these expectations. Then I realized actually is them tiring is 317 00:14:07,479 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: tiring to be someone that you're not. And I realized 318 00:14:09,770 --> 00:14:12,659 Speaker 2: that I can just be whoever I wanted. And I 319 00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: look where I am now, if I was not as expressive, 320 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:18,809 Speaker 2: I don't think I'd be doing what I'm doing now 321 00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:22,530 Speaker 2: doing in general, right? I would be working in a 322 00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:25,500 Speaker 2: corporate job. Be a corporate 323 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:29,690 Speaker 2: question. 324 00:14:30,359 --> 00:14:33,900 Speaker 1: Would you rather be able to converse with animals or 325 00:14:33,909 --> 00:14:37,109 Speaker 1: speak every language in the world fluently? I would like 326 00:14:37,119 --> 00:14:39,130 Speaker 1: to converse with animals. I think. Which animal 327 00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:39,630 Speaker 2: you talk to 328 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,039 Speaker 1: my cat? I know my cat hates me. I just 329 00:14:43,049 --> 00:14:46,710 Speaker 1: want to find out why, why, why, why do you 330 00:14:46,719 --> 00:14:47,590 Speaker 1: hate me? 331 00:14:47,599 --> 00:14:47,919 Speaker 2: What 332 00:14:47,929 --> 00:14:49,789 Speaker 2: is the one thing you would do if you wake 333 00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:53,109 Speaker 2: up in the body of the opposite gender? Girl? Pee? 334 00:14:54,549 --> 00:14:57,190 Speaker 2: I wanna know how it feels like to be being from, 335 00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:57,909 Speaker 2: sit down, 336 00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: cannot stand up. 337 00:15:00,330 --> 00:15:02,580 Speaker 2: Maybe you also feel how a period feels like. 338 00:15:02,590 --> 00:15:05,469 Speaker 1: Would you rather attend a close friend's wedding with a 339 00:15:05,479 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: unibrow or no eyebrows? You always gonna Yeah, I always 340 00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:13,229 Speaker 1: got the eyebrows questions but my eyebrows are drawn. I 341 00:15:13,239 --> 00:15:16,099 Speaker 1: have very little eyebrows. So actually, right. Maybe one day 342 00:15:16,109 --> 00:15:17,659 Speaker 1: I'll embrace the no eyebrow. Look. 343 00:15:17,669 --> 00:15:18,739 Speaker 2: Would you rather 344 00:15:18,835 --> 00:15:22,734 Speaker 2: use sandpaper as toilet paper or vinegar as I drop 345 00:15:23,195 --> 00:15:23,304 Speaker 2: as 346 00:15:23,825 --> 00:15:26,255 Speaker 1: maybe some hair will fall out vinegar 347 00:15:26,265 --> 00:15:28,734 Speaker 2: as eye drops can go blind on it 348 00:15:28,744 --> 00:15:32,145 Speaker 1: if you had to turn into food. What would it be? Perfect? 349 00:15:32,155 --> 00:15:36,174 Speaker 1: Question for her corn stuck in your teeth then like 350 00:15:36,184 --> 00:15:38,414 Speaker 1: cannot digest. Come on your I love 351 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:44,159 Speaker 1: honestly like something that stemmed from my childhood, right? That 352 00:15:44,179 --> 00:15:46,710 Speaker 1: is now considered a toxic chair of mine. You know, 353 00:15:46,719 --> 00:15:47,179 Speaker 1: I'm going 354 00:15:47,190 --> 00:15:50,380 Speaker 2: with this. I hate this. We're gonna talk about our 355 00:15:50,390 --> 00:15:52,359 Speaker 2: favorite that thing. I, 356 00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:53,159 Speaker 1: oh 357 00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:56,989 Speaker 1: my God. I don't agree that men should ever carry umbrellas. 358 00:15:57,010 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: And this is something that stemmed from my childhood because 359 00:15:59,770 --> 00:16:02,099 Speaker 1: I've never seen my dad or my uncle or what, 360 00:16:02,109 --> 00:16:02,679 Speaker 1: like carry on 361 00:16:03,083 --> 00:16:05,333 Speaker 1: because it's like, it's just rain, it's just Singapore rain. 362 00:16:05,343 --> 00:16:09,343 Speaker 1: It's not a typhoon. Just what? But HJ, cold, it's cold. 363 00:16:09,353 --> 00:16:12,143 Speaker 1: You get over it, you dry yourself off and then 364 00:16:12,153 --> 00:16:15,242 Speaker 1: like the day will continue but boys can get flu. So, yeah, 365 00:16:15,252 --> 00:16:17,552 Speaker 1: and then you take a Panadol and then you're done. 366 00:16:17,562 --> 00:16:20,203 Speaker 1: So that's why like when I see men carry umbrellas 367 00:16:20,213 --> 00:16:23,973 Speaker 1: now I feel very, I feel very e out. That's 368 00:16:23,982 --> 00:16:25,482 Speaker 2: how it ingrained from you. 369 00:16:25,705 --> 00:16:28,616 Speaker 2: Like in your childhood that men should not carry umbrella, not, 370 00:16:28,625 --> 00:16:31,705 Speaker 1: should not, right? But shouldn't have to. Yeah. So then like, 371 00:16:31,716 --> 00:16:34,205 Speaker 1: I think f and you actually brought up like a 372 00:16:34,236 --> 00:16:38,406 Speaker 1: ton of like hypothetical examples, right? Like what if your 373 00:16:38,416 --> 00:16:40,495 Speaker 1: grandmother is in the car with you and then it rains, 374 00:16:40,505 --> 00:16:43,096 Speaker 1: if it's on my grandma? Sure. But if it's like 375 00:16:43,106 --> 00:16:46,935 Speaker 1: for this man himself walking to me on with an umbrella, right? 376 00:16:46,945 --> 00:16:47,895 Speaker 1: I'm not meeting you ever. 377 00:16:49,210 --> 00:16:51,260 Speaker 1: And it's the same and it kind of translates into 378 00:16:51,270 --> 00:16:54,859 Speaker 1: other things like men. When they carry wet tissue, why 379 00:16:55,580 --> 00:16:57,739 Speaker 1: hand sanitizer can or not? OK. Now that it is 380 00:16:57,750 --> 00:17:00,869 Speaker 1: like COVID era. Sure. But like beforehand, you carrying your 381 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:01,900 Speaker 1: bath and body works. 382 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:07,489 Speaker 1: Yeah. So these are all these gender stereotypes that like, 383 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,380 Speaker 1: it's not like my parents or my grandparents, I say cannot, 384 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:13,020 Speaker 1: but I just never saw it happening that it just became, 385 00:17:13,030 --> 00:17:16,099 Speaker 1: I never grew, I grew accustomed to seeing men without 386 00:17:16,109 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: umbrellas. 387 00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:18,969 Speaker 2: I always bring umbrella. I bring what? 388 00:17:19,635 --> 00:17:19,655 Speaker 2: Yeah, 389 00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:20,574 Speaker 2: she's 390 00:17:20,584 --> 00:17:21,135 Speaker 1: gagging. 391 00:17:21,635 --> 00:17:23,125 Speaker 2: I'll bring extra I 392 00:17:23,344 --> 00:17:26,305 Speaker 1: love but I didn't see it happening. So my perception 393 00:17:26,314 --> 00:17:29,214 Speaker 1: of you. So this is not changed if it's raining 394 00:17:29,224 --> 00:17:31,344 Speaker 1: outside the studio later and I see you walking off 395 00:17:31,375 --> 00:17:34,555 Speaker 1: an umbrella. Let him, 396 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,770 Speaker 2: you're the bully from my childhood 397 00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:43,050 Speaker 1: when I first joined Lasalle. My first year I got 398 00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: invited by a senior to sing for his recital. This 399 00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:48,699 Speaker 1: is a big deal because you are only year one, right? 400 00:17:48,709 --> 00:17:50,079 Speaker 1: So I was like, oh my God, like I'm getting 401 00:17:50,089 --> 00:17:53,300 Speaker 1: recognized in the school for my, like my hard work. 402 00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:54,188 Speaker 1: So OK, I'll do it. 403 00:17:54,579 --> 00:17:59,319 Speaker 1: And before the actual recital day, he sent out an 404 00:17:59,329 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: email and he said, and this was addressed to the 405 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: females in the band. He said, girls, you have to 406 00:18:04,569 --> 00:18:08,478 Speaker 1: dress sexy hot and he sent photos, right? And it's 407 00:18:08,489 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: like fish net crop top. At this point, I've never 408 00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:13,379 Speaker 1: won a crop top in my life. And I had 409 00:18:13,390 --> 00:18:14,869 Speaker 1: to go buy one for this gig because I was 410 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,260 Speaker 1: scared that I would lose it. And this was a 411 00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: thing 412 00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:21,069 Speaker 1: until now I'm so angry. He said, I want every 413 00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:24,189 Speaker 1: single guy in the audience, especially the ones with a 414 00:18:24,199 --> 00:18:28,140 Speaker 1: girlfriend to wish they were bringing you home. That's a 415 00:18:28,219 --> 00:18:28,349 Speaker 1: bit 416 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:28,948 Speaker 1: extreme. 417 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:31,660 Speaker 2: This guy especially why do you guys think that these 418 00:18:31,670 --> 00:18:32,430 Speaker 2: stereotypes 419 00:18:32,439 --> 00:18:33,010 Speaker 2: exist? 420 00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:37,739 Speaker 1: It's to simplify like how you identify certain things I feel. 421 00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:40,629 Speaker 1: It's just very, it's so much easier to put people 422 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,550 Speaker 1: or things in a certain box. When people say things 423 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,089 Speaker 1: that I'm very fluid, then in your head you kind 424 00:18:46,099 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: of just like. So which category do I put you in? 425 00:18:48,989 --> 00:18:51,770 Speaker 1: And all these stereotypes, I help to categorize 426 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,170 Speaker 2: for my, in reality, the world is more complex than that. 427 00:18:54,199 --> 00:18:56,899 Speaker 2: I just trying to play devil's advocate. Here at the 428 00:18:56,910 --> 00:19:00,790 Speaker 2: beginning of time, I think there were essentially physiological differences 429 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 2: between the male and the female, right? And I think 430 00:19:03,369 --> 00:19:03,698 Speaker 2: this is 431 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:06,239 Speaker 2: something that I feel like we're talking about it. That 432 00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:11,020 Speaker 2: is sex, the sex of someone, not the gender, gender 433 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 2: in his definition is not necessarily about the biological, biological 434 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:20,369 Speaker 2: makeup and gender is a little bit more fluid and 435 00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:25,650 Speaker 2: influenced by what society places on that experience as an individual. 436 00:19:25,660 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: A lot of these 437 00:19:27,829 --> 00:19:33,859 Speaker 2: physiological differences were the basis of where certain expectations of place. 438 00:19:33,869 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 2: And I think beyond that, when society moved on, it 439 00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:40,079 Speaker 2: became worse. But I think it has reached to a 440 00:19:40,089 --> 00:19:45,579 Speaker 2: point where we are in this generation where we are thinkers. 441 00:19:45,589 --> 00:19:49,180 Speaker 2: I am hopeful that the future generation will be able 442 00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:50,569 Speaker 2: to discern 443 00:19:51,140 --> 00:19:53,718 Speaker 2: whether things should be gendered or not. So 444 00:19:54,219 --> 00:19:54,329 Speaker 1: thank you. 445 00:19:55,479 --> 00:19:56,250 Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. 446 00:19:58,609 --> 00:20:01,979 Speaker 1: Suddenly general election. So you put me next to him. 447 00:20:01,989 --> 00:20:03,650 Speaker 1: He talking seriously talking about umbrella. 448 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,890 Speaker 2: But I have a when women have wet hair and 449 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:09,589 Speaker 2: mt OK. I agree. 450 00:20:11,589 --> 00:20:13,989 Speaker 1: Very go on patch there. 451 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,270 Speaker 2: Exactly. If it's a guy but I am more willing 452 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 2: to forgive, I guess. I don't know, 453 00:20:22,859 --> 00:20:26,270 Speaker 2: the day I saw like a woman with like wet hair, right? 454 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,430 Speaker 2: Then she leaned against the pole, right? So the wet 455 00:20:29,439 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: hair is against the pole is not disgusting to you. 456 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: But I think this boils down to hygiene, right? Maybe 457 00:20:36,369 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: not that she's a female, but 458 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:38,260 Speaker 2: maybe 459 00:20:38,270 --> 00:20:40,670 Speaker 2: my expectation of women is that they should 460 00:20:40,770 --> 00:20:44,109 Speaker 2: be put together, You know, I mean underlying that maybe right? 461 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,229 Speaker 2: It's like you guys should be like drying your hair, 462 00:20:46,239 --> 00:20:49,430 Speaker 2: make sure your hair style before you step out of 463 00:20:49,439 --> 00:20:52,270 Speaker 2: the house. So maybe I am part of this problem. 464 00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: We all, 465 00:20:54,030 --> 00:20:55,540 Speaker 1: I think we all are in our own way. Yeah, 466 00:20:55,550 --> 00:20:58,479 Speaker 2: exactly. Speaking about that, right? I find the concept of 467 00:20:58,489 --> 00:20:59,739 Speaker 2: ladies night. Wow. 468 00:21:00,699 --> 00:21:01,349 Speaker 2: Like why? 469 00:21:01,530 --> 00:21:04,079 Speaker 1: Because if we are there then the guys who have 470 00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:08,609 Speaker 1: the meals. No, that's the truth. Once again, we are 471 00:21:08,619 --> 00:21:09,329 Speaker 1: pawns 472 00:21:10,209 --> 00:21:10,719 Speaker 2: of free drinks 473 00:21:11,209 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: and I'm not complaining about 474 00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:13,669 Speaker 1: that, right? 475 00:21:13,979 --> 00:21:16,050 Speaker 2: I mean guys also had to pay a lot more 476 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:18,770 Speaker 2: to enter ladies night last time when I club, right? 477 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:19,849 Speaker 2: We open a table. 478 00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:23,530 Speaker 2: The girls don't pay like everybody drink. No, but the 479 00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: girls don't pay the guys pay. Sorry, I'm all the 480 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:32,219 Speaker 2: claim the money back, right? A and bank transfer for 481 00:21:34,910 --> 00:21:36,910 Speaker 1: you. I always thought that was like a meal thing 482 00:21:36,930 --> 00:21:39,699 Speaker 1: because the meals always I never iii I then you 483 00:21:39,709 --> 00:21:42,109 Speaker 1: say you pay then is your person already. I feel 484 00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:45,349 Speaker 1: the pressure to pay. They don't look like a man. 485 00:21:45,489 --> 00:21:46,020 Speaker 1: If it said 486 00:21:46,215 --> 00:21:49,375 Speaker 1: like I'm here, this is my responsibility as a male 487 00:21:49,385 --> 00:21:51,526 Speaker 1: in society, I need to take care of you. I'm 488 00:21:51,536 --> 00:21:54,244 Speaker 1: highly uncomfortable with that. But if it's like, you know 489 00:21:54,255 --> 00:21:57,285 Speaker 1: what I want to take care of you different, do 490 00:21:57,296 --> 00:21:59,535 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Do you understand what I mean? 491 00:21:59,546 --> 00:22:01,656 Speaker 1: If I know what you mean? It's one of those. 492 00:22:01,705 --> 00:22:04,245 Speaker 1: It's like, it's like you are like a princess, I'm 493 00:22:04,255 --> 00:22:06,645 Speaker 1: gonna take care of you because you deserve it rather 494 00:22:06,656 --> 00:22:09,046 Speaker 1: than no, no, no, not your responsibility. I'm the man. 495 00:22:09,336 --> 00:22:11,706 Speaker 1: I think you sit down, don't say anything. 496 00:22:12,241 --> 00:22:12,852 Speaker 1: I like that 497 00:22:12,991 --> 00:22:15,161 Speaker 2: one is like, I'm being a gentleman. The other one 498 00:22:15,171 --> 00:22:17,771 Speaker 2: is like you're talking, they're talking down to you like 499 00:22:17,821 --> 00:22:20,911 Speaker 1: IC I think mine's the opposite. It's like if a 500 00:22:20,921 --> 00:22:23,342 Speaker 1: male friend wants to pay for me and like, no, 501 00:22:23,352 --> 00:22:25,722 Speaker 1: it's ok, I'll get it. Ok. But if I'm on 502 00:22:25,732 --> 00:22:27,932 Speaker 1: a date and then you just like, it's ok, I'll 503 00:22:27,942 --> 00:22:31,442 Speaker 1: get it. I don't because like when you're on a day, right, 504 00:22:31,452 --> 00:22:33,620 Speaker 1: there's already this like certain expectation and then when the 505 00:22:33,631 --> 00:22:35,531 Speaker 1: mail comes in, I know I have it then well, 506 00:22:35,541 --> 00:22:37,421 Speaker 1: after this, what I gonna do not to be 507 00:22:37,738 --> 00:22:43,637 Speaker 1: what we do. Yeah, I feel like it, we're just 508 00:22:43,647 --> 00:22:46,766 Speaker 1: confusing people like we are making a set of rules right? 509 00:22:46,777 --> 00:22:51,637 Speaker 1: For everyone to go with, but it really depends on 510 00:22:51,647 --> 00:22:53,728 Speaker 1: who you're going on a date with. Right. Because for 511 00:22:53,738 --> 00:22:56,748 Speaker 1: someone like me, I rather sleep. Right. Yeah. But then 512 00:22:56,758 --> 00:22:58,258 Speaker 1: I don't owe you anything. You don't owe me anything. 513 00:22:58,588 --> 00:23:01,868 Speaker 1: But then some women want to always have men pay 514 00:23:01,878 --> 00:23:03,478 Speaker 1: for them, which is nothing 515 00:23:03,553 --> 00:23:06,343 Speaker 1: wrong. And then I feel like we are always telling 516 00:23:06,354 --> 00:23:09,784 Speaker 1: men to be a certain way on dates, like to 517 00:23:09,792 --> 00:23:12,693 Speaker 1: always pay. But actually a lot of women don't want that. 518 00:23:12,703 --> 00:23:17,273 Speaker 2: Suddenly, the idea of gender has also been so closely 519 00:23:17,413 --> 00:23:21,854 Speaker 2: aligned to the idea of economic status. Yeah. Right. So 520 00:23:21,864 --> 00:23:24,654 Speaker 2: like everything is intertwined and I think we cannot discuss 521 00:23:24,663 --> 00:23:27,984 Speaker 2: gender in a silo is crazy. And I feel like 522 00:23:27,994 --> 00:23:29,254 Speaker 2: at this point, 523 00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:33,849 Speaker 2: can we truly get rid of these expectations? Because I 524 00:23:33,859 --> 00:23:35,819 Speaker 2: feel like there are different people who will make use 525 00:23:35,829 --> 00:23:39,198 Speaker 2: of these expectations to their own advantage. I mean power 526 00:23:39,209 --> 00:23:41,310 Speaker 2: to you. If you can get free meals out of 527 00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:44,339 Speaker 2: a man, I tell you go for it, go for it. 528 00:23:44,869 --> 00:23:48,739 Speaker 2: Good for you. You please say, I think men have 529 00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: had enough privilege in their life. So let them pay 530 00:23:51,349 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 2: back this dependence. We 531 00:23:53,729 --> 00:23:54,500 Speaker 1: always at least two 532 00:23:54,656 --> 00:23:58,906 Speaker 1: to the spectrum. Equality, exploit the man. Like where is 533 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:02,595 Speaker 1: the middle ground? I was gonna ask like if your 534 00:24:02,605 --> 00:24:04,906 Speaker 1: wife ended up earning like four times more than you 535 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:06,555 Speaker 1: now and then, but then someone needs to be the 536 00:24:06,566 --> 00:24:10,615 Speaker 1: house husband, right? So were you OK? Oh my God. 537 00:24:10,744 --> 00:24:15,526 Speaker 2: Thank you tomorrow. I like I will have the best house, 538 00:24:15,536 --> 00:24:19,265 Speaker 2: the cleanest house every night. I cook five course dinner. Ok, 539 00:24:19,472 --> 00:24:20,472 Speaker 1: the reaction 540 00:24:21,401 --> 00:24:23,541 Speaker 1: when you have Children already. So three kids to take 541 00:24:23,552 --> 00:24:26,432 Speaker 1: care of plus the household, plus everything else. But your wife, 542 00:24:27,082 --> 00:24:27,561 Speaker 2: I've always 543 00:24:27,571 --> 00:24:29,952 Speaker 2: said that the only reason, one of the main reasons 544 00:24:29,962 --> 00:24:32,401 Speaker 2: why we don't have kids is because I have to 545 00:24:32,411 --> 00:24:36,192 Speaker 2: work because I want to be present parent. So if 546 00:24:36,202 --> 00:24:37,561 Speaker 2: I don't have to work and I can be at 547 00:24:37,571 --> 00:24:39,572 Speaker 2: home all the time, I will have a kid, let's say, 548 00:24:39,692 --> 00:24:42,062 Speaker 2: since you and your umbrella, right? I'll ask you, would 549 00:24:42,071 --> 00:24:44,052 Speaker 2: you accept a man who 550 00:24:44,540 --> 00:24:45,379 Speaker 2: would be a house 551 00:24:45,390 --> 00:24:45,900 Speaker 2: husband? 552 00:24:46,069 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: I'm very comfortable being the one with the more power. 553 00:24:49,459 --> 00:24:52,089 Speaker 1: So if my husband earns less and then I happen 554 00:24:52,099 --> 00:24:54,020 Speaker 1: to be earning a good amount and he wants to 555 00:24:54,030 --> 00:24:56,510 Speaker 1: be a house husband, right? Great. I'm just gonna come home, 556 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,540 Speaker 1: have a nice dinner. Science and you will be and 557 00:24:58,550 --> 00:25:00,290 Speaker 1: I'm done for the day, you know, like 558 00:25:01,390 --> 00:25:01,589 Speaker 2: me 559 00:25:01,609 --> 00:25:02,599 Speaker 2: something nice. 560 00:25:02,609 --> 00:25:06,050 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Get yourself something shiny girl and then he 561 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: will buy like a golf club or something 562 00:25:08,439 --> 00:25:11,890 Speaker 1: and then he's done and then like he's happy, I'm happy. Ok? 563 00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: But then like it has to be that I offered 564 00:25:14,050 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: you the option not you come and tell me you 565 00:25:15,810 --> 00:25:17,619 Speaker 1: don't want to work. That one is a different story. 566 00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:20,650 Speaker 1: You want to have an option of choosing what I 567 00:25:20,819 --> 00:25:23,459 Speaker 1: must give you as I must give you the option. Like, hey, honey, 568 00:25:23,469 --> 00:25:26,229 Speaker 1: I'm earning a lot now. You can, don't work. But 569 00:25:26,239 --> 00:25:28,319 Speaker 1: if you come and tell me, honey, you are earning 570 00:25:28,329 --> 00:25:30,329 Speaker 1: a lot. I don't want to work. Get on my face. 571 00:25:31,170 --> 00:25:32,060 Speaker 1: He lost me again. 572 00:25:34,130 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 2: It's basically Ida wants the power. If Ida wants to 573 00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:40,149 Speaker 2: make the decision, you cannot make the decision for me. 574 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: What if it's a 575 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:43,140 Speaker 1: suggestion? Yeah, exactly. You know, it seems like this makes 576 00:25:43,150 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 1: more sense like what he is doing? 577 00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:46,089 Speaker 2: No, 578 00:25:46,849 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 2: I'm better at cooking than you. 579 00:25:48,739 --> 00:25:50,430 Speaker 1: He hide all the umbrellas, 580 00:25:50,439 --> 00:25:50,569 Speaker 2: the 581 00:25:50,579 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: Children like me more 582 00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:58,218 Speaker 1: if the Children like you more, right? I am quitting 583 00:25:58,229 --> 00:26:01,650 Speaker 1: my job first before you even say it's a competition. Yeah, 584 00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: everything is a competition 585 00:26:03,569 --> 00:26:06,739 Speaker 2: for me. I think the important thing is that whether 586 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 2: you are a guy or a girl, you need to 587 00:26:08,930 --> 00:26:11,938 Speaker 2: like try to be objective when you analyze like OK, 588 00:26:12,109 --> 00:26:13,458 Speaker 2: does it make sense for me to step 589 00:26:13,564 --> 00:26:15,244 Speaker 2: into this role? Does it make sense for you to 590 00:26:15,255 --> 00:26:19,024 Speaker 2: step into this role? And then you discuss that like objectively, 591 00:26:19,185 --> 00:26:22,823 Speaker 2: I feel like as the world changes, we have more 592 00:26:22,834 --> 00:26:27,035 Speaker 2: agency for ourselves to decide for ourselves, what we want 593 00:26:27,045 --> 00:26:28,844 Speaker 2: to do and what we want to achieve in life. 594 00:26:28,854 --> 00:26:31,704 Speaker 2: I feel like the moment all of us can accept 595 00:26:31,964 --> 00:26:32,415 Speaker 2: that 596 00:26:33,199 --> 00:26:36,849 Speaker 2: as a human being, we are able to do unlimited things. 597 00:26:37,569 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 2: I think it will lead to a society where we're 598 00:26:41,170 --> 00:26:46,380 Speaker 2: all happier and not restricted by expectations that were given 599 00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 2: to us or place upon us from the hey day, 600 00:26:49,489 --> 00:26:53,180 Speaker 2: which is now irrelevant. Yeah, I think that sums up 601 00:26:53,189 --> 00:26:55,410 Speaker 2: quite nice because like the world is your oyster. But 602 00:26:55,420 --> 00:26:57,579 Speaker 2: then because of certain gender stereotypes, you only want to 603 00:26:57,589 --> 00:27:00,380 Speaker 2: explore this, but then you scared to explore the rest. 604 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,629 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on the hot pot. You 605 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,469 Speaker 1: can also catch us on Spotify Apple Podcast and me. 606 00:27:06,479 --> 00:27:09,310 Speaker 2: Listen. And if you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe 607 00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:10,459 Speaker 2: to our channel as well. 608 00:27:10,469 --> 00:27:10,619 Speaker 1: And 609 00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:12,688 Speaker 1: thank you for Ozzie and Ada for being here today. 610 00:27:13,910 --> 00:27:15,819 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to my rubbish 611 00:27:15,829 --> 00:27:18,989 Speaker 2: and you can also watch Court right after this. So 612 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,839 Speaker 2: please do after this episode 613 00:27:20,849 --> 00:27:23,540 Speaker 1: after we're not done yet. So don't need to skip yet. Yeah. 614 00:27:23,579 --> 00:27:27,060 Speaker 1: Spoiler alert I want for any episode. 615 00:27:27,069 --> 00:27:29,290 Speaker 2: Honestly, at this point. Yes, 616 00:27:29,859 --> 00:27:32,670 Speaker 1: clearly, there's so much that we couldn't cover today. If 617 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,079 Speaker 1: there's anything that you wish we talked about or anything 618 00:27:35,089 --> 00:27:37,448 Speaker 1: you want to add to the discussion. Comment down below. 619 00:27:37,459 --> 00:27:39,209 Speaker 1: We will meet you in the comments and we'll see 620 00:27:39,219 --> 00:27:41,319 Speaker 1: you in the next episode. Bye 621 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,889 Speaker 1: today. He bought concealer. He told me just now. Did you? 622 00:27:52,449 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: I am a bit 623 00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:53,750 Speaker 1: tired, 624 00:27:54,199 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 2: tired. That's why I got I box. 625 00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:59,619 Speaker 2: So yeah, my eye bags were getting a bit bad 626 00:27:59,630 --> 00:28:02,130 Speaker 2: in the past two or three weeks because I never 627 00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:03,140 Speaker 2: see much. I put a little bit