1 00:00:03,119 --> 00:00:05,329 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,970 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Tiffany and Gerald on the Work It podcast. Now, 3 00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: a little story here, about 6 years ago, I had 4 00:00:17,319 --> 00:00:19,718 Speaker 1: to clean up my resume because I was looking for 5 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: a new job. At that time, I hadn't touched it 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: in 8 years. So what did I do? I turned 7 00:00:25,959 --> 00:00:28,719 Speaker 1: to Google for help. Now this is what Google said 8 00:00:28,719 --> 00:00:32,439 Speaker 1: to me, List your achievements from most recent and work 9 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: bad work. 10 00:00:33,549 --> 00:00:37,540 Speaker 1: Highlighting any recommendations or awards you have won along the way, 11 00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:41,659 Speaker 1: then put your education background and list some skills you have, 12 00:00:41,869 --> 00:00:44,540 Speaker 1: which may be suitable for the job you are applying for. 13 00:00:44,830 --> 00:00:47,830 Speaker 1: Now by the time I was done, it was almost 14 00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:52,830 Speaker 1: 3 pages long because everything felt important to me. OK, 15 00:00:52,869 --> 00:00:54,630 Speaker 1: I know this is where you will be shaking your 16 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:55,069 Speaker 1: head at me. 17 00:00:55,310 --> 00:00:58,830 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think firstly, you have GPT today. It's 18 00:00:58,830 --> 00:01:01,700 Speaker 1: a lot easier now it's a lot easier, but I 19 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:05,179 Speaker 1: think when it comes to resume writing, right, I think 20 00:01:05,180 --> 00:01:08,099 Speaker 1: everyone can agree that they feel that their resume is 21 00:01:08,099 --> 00:01:09,819 Speaker 1: always a work in progress. They don't feel that they 22 00:01:09,819 --> 00:01:12,580 Speaker 1: have the perfect resume. There's always something to add, update, 23 00:01:12,660 --> 00:01:16,179 Speaker 1: enhance in our resume, where we want to apply for jobs, right? 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:17,779 Speaker 1: So I think 25 00:01:18,269 --> 00:01:21,099 Speaker 1: Most people want to put everything that they have inside, 26 00:01:21,309 --> 00:01:24,419 Speaker 1: and that's why you hit 3 pages or more very quickly. 27 00:01:24,589 --> 00:01:27,389 Speaker 1: There's an art actually and a bit of science or 28 00:01:27,830 --> 00:01:30,459 Speaker 1: as to how we should tailor our resumes a bit 29 00:01:30,459 --> 00:01:33,870 Speaker 1: better so that it appeals to the recruiters, hiring companies 30 00:01:34,230 --> 00:01:36,669 Speaker 1: to attract them to take a second look at what 31 00:01:36,669 --> 00:01:38,589 Speaker 1: you've written on your resume and then call you in 32 00:01:38,589 --> 00:01:41,349 Speaker 1: for an interview. I know this is something that's really 33 00:01:41,709 --> 00:01:44,389 Speaker 1: on the top of many people's minds, people who are 34 00:01:44,389 --> 00:01:46,989 Speaker 1: job-seeking or even maybe not job-seeking as well. How do 35 00:01:46,989 --> 00:01:47,309 Speaker 1: you write? 36 00:01:47,385 --> 00:01:49,855 Speaker 1: A good resume and what to look out for. So 37 00:01:49,855 --> 00:01:52,635 Speaker 1: I call in the big shot today, right? I'm really happy. 38 00:01:52,815 --> 00:01:56,735 Speaker 1: We have a Lim Zirong, master professionals at the Institute 39 00:01:56,735 --> 00:01:59,775 Speaker 1: of HR Professionals to walk us through this thing about 40 00:01:59,775 --> 00:02:04,415 Speaker 1: resumes and to give us some tips and hacks. Welcome, Zong. Hi, 41 00:02:04,574 --> 00:02:06,375 Speaker 2: thank you. Thanks for having me. So 42 00:02:06,375 --> 00:02:09,175 Speaker 1: Zong, give me a ballpark, right? How many resumes have 43 00:02:09,175 --> 00:02:12,404 Speaker 1: you seen so far in your career and in percentage terms, 44 00:02:12,735 --> 00:02:15,214 Speaker 1: how many do you think are well written? Wow, 45 00:02:15,304 --> 00:02:15,615 Speaker 2: how many? 46 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,889 Speaker 2: Over hundreds or close to 1000. I mean, because I've 47 00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:23,070 Speaker 2: worked in HR for close to 19 years by now, 48 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,369 Speaker 2: and I would say, 49 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:26,649 Speaker 1: how many are actually well written? 50 00:02:26,788 --> 00:02:27,039 Speaker 2: I like 51 00:02:27,038 --> 00:02:30,038 Speaker 2: to be cautiously optimistic, so more than half would be 52 00:02:30,038 --> 00:02:30,739 Speaker 2: well written. 53 00:02:31,559 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: But these 54 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: good ones, are they already like they're fresh from the 55 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,929 Speaker 1: job portals or are they like already pre-screened? Oh, you 56 00:02:38,929 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: mean there's a difference? Yeah, the ATS. 57 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:43,990 Speaker 1: Oh yes, OK, application software. 58 00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:46,008 Speaker 2: So I would say in the earlier part of my career, 59 00:02:46,089 --> 00:02:48,288 Speaker 2: I will screen every resume myself though now in the 60 00:02:48,288 --> 00:02:50,289 Speaker 2: second part, I do have a team that helps me 61 00:02:50,288 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: to pre-screen. 62 00:02:51,179 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: Now 63 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,690 Speaker 1: that you have heard what I did in the introduction, 64 00:02:53,850 --> 00:02:55,889 Speaker 1: what's the good thing I did and what's the bad 65 00:02:55,889 --> 00:02:56,210 Speaker 1: thing I 66 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: did? 67 00:02:56,649 --> 00:02:58,330 Speaker 2: I think first of all I want to start by 68 00:02:58,330 --> 00:03:00,970 Speaker 2: saying a lot of people fall into the pitfall where, oh, 69 00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:03,029 Speaker 2: now I want to look for a job, I want 70 00:03:03,029 --> 00:03:05,449 Speaker 2: to update my resume and then they just build on. 71 00:03:05,589 --> 00:03:08,940 Speaker 2: What they have previously updated in the past. Like personally, 72 00:03:08,979 --> 00:03:11,220 Speaker 2: I was, I started my career in Temasek, then I 73 00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:13,418 Speaker 2: will have a resume that wrote Temasek, then I moved 74 00:03:13,419 --> 00:03:16,490 Speaker 2: on to Unilever. I put on my resume experience on Unilever, 75 00:03:16,860 --> 00:03:19,538 Speaker 2: and then then I keep building on and on. But 76 00:03:19,538 --> 00:03:22,020 Speaker 2: the truth is when we build on our resumes, we 77 00:03:22,020 --> 00:03:25,660 Speaker 2: should also revisit the old parts and maybe refine it 78 00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:28,970 Speaker 2: or even delete it or make it shorter rather than 79 00:03:28,970 --> 00:03:29,779 Speaker 2: to take a very lazy. 80 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:32,830 Speaker 2: approach like a Lego where you stack, stack, stack and 81 00:03:32,839 --> 00:03:34,860 Speaker 2: and now you have your 3-page or your 4-page 82 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:38,309 Speaker 1: resume. Yeah, yeah, OK, OK. So I should actually go 83 00:03:38,309 --> 00:03:41,470 Speaker 1: back and then relook at some parts and maybe shorten 84 00:03:41,470 --> 00:03:43,470 Speaker 1: shorten some things, maybe even delete some things, 85 00:03:43,589 --> 00:03:48,429 Speaker 2: right? Especially if some are highly operational and especially if 86 00:03:48,429 --> 00:03:51,350 Speaker 2: you're applying for a much more senior role already. Let's 87 00:03:51,350 --> 00:03:54,110 Speaker 2: say you're applying for a director role after 15 years. 88 00:03:54,190 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: South Korea. You don't need to use to do campus 89 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,559 Speaker 2: recruitment coordinating the logistics with the hotel. Yeah, you should 90 00:04:01,559 --> 00:04:02,100 Speaker 2: delete that 91 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:03,990 Speaker 1: by now. OK, OK, that's a good tip. 92 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: Can I give another tip too? You know sometimes people 93 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,649 Speaker 2: put their contact details under header and footer. So their name, 94 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: their email address, their mobile number, and unfortunately, when they 95 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: go through ATS, the application tracking system. 96 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,140 Speaker 2: Their contact details may not be captured because it's in 97 00:04:22,140 --> 00:04:25,260 Speaker 2: the header field. So always put your contact details in 98 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:28,859 Speaker 2: the body of your resume. In the header, it becomes 99 00:04:28,859 --> 00:04:31,500 Speaker 2: very small and tiny and that might not be captured. 100 00:04:31,619 --> 00:04:33,700 Speaker 2: Then if you got shortlisted, the ATS don't even have 101 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:35,290 Speaker 2: the contact details to contact you. 102 00:04:35,790 --> 00:04:38,579 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I didn't know that as your resume 103 00:04:38,579 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: is incomplete. 104 00:04:41,217 --> 00:04:43,087 Speaker 1: But why, why would people want to put their contact 105 00:04:43,087 --> 00:04:46,617 Speaker 1: details in the header is because they want to space 106 00:04:46,617 --> 00:04:48,087 Speaker 1: is one thing. They also want it to be repeated 107 00:04:48,087 --> 00:04:49,846 Speaker 1: on every page. They want it to be more visible, 108 00:04:49,886 --> 00:04:52,967 Speaker 1: but actually on the contrary, if software is involved, right, 109 00:04:53,046 --> 00:04:56,046 Speaker 1: it could be invisible. Wow, that's like, OK, my mind 110 00:04:56,046 --> 00:04:58,286 Speaker 1: is a little bit blown right now. I would probably 111 00:04:58,286 --> 00:04:59,886 Speaker 1: have done and put it in the header because I 112 00:04:59,886 --> 00:05:03,687 Speaker 1: want to maximize the page space, right, right? OK, so. 113 00:05:04,033 --> 00:05:07,753 Speaker 1: Walk us through very quickly the entire process of recruitment 114 00:05:07,753 --> 00:05:10,794 Speaker 1: from the time our resume is submitted into the job portal. 115 00:05:10,954 --> 00:05:13,873 Speaker 2: When it's in the job portal, then progressive company would 116 00:05:13,873 --> 00:05:17,563 Speaker 2: have certain form of screening by picking up keywords first. Hence, 117 00:05:17,634 --> 00:05:21,993 Speaker 2: that's why I advise job seekers to always include reasonable keywords. 118 00:05:22,273 --> 00:05:25,194 Speaker 2: Don't include very bombastic one where, you know, you inflate 119 00:05:25,194 --> 00:05:26,343 Speaker 2: your title so big that it's 120 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:29,420 Speaker 2: not so common out there. Make sure it's relevant to 121 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:32,180 Speaker 2: the job that you are applying. Another pro tip, look 122 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:34,221 Speaker 2: at the job description and look at the keywords in 123 00:05:34,221 --> 00:05:36,859 Speaker 2: the JD and try to incorporate some of the keywords 124 00:05:36,860 --> 00:05:40,300 Speaker 2: in the JD into your resume. And this way, it 125 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:42,299 Speaker 2: is more likely to be picked up by the system 126 00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:44,260 Speaker 2: in the first stage of automated 127 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:44,621 Speaker 2: screening. 128 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:47,940 Speaker 1: So should you copy and paste wholesale the keywords or 129 00:05:47,940 --> 00:05:48,940 Speaker 1: you should try and 130 00:05:49,149 --> 00:05:52,700 Speaker 1: I don't not plagiarize and use this copy and 131 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:53,070 Speaker 1: paste, 132 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:56,339 Speaker 2: you're missing something, you missed out the parts to write 133 00:05:56,339 --> 00:05:59,260 Speaker 2: down your impact at work because JD is usually listing 134 00:05:59,260 --> 00:06:03,220 Speaker 2: the responsibility to help execute this event, but you wouldn't 135 00:06:03,220 --> 00:06:06,579 Speaker 2: say execute this event and achieve a certain impact. And 136 00:06:06,579 --> 00:06:09,059 Speaker 2: the second part has to come from your experience. So 137 00:06:09,059 --> 00:06:12,238 Speaker 1: resumes are already used at the beginning of the process, right? 138 00:06:12,250 --> 00:06:15,019 Speaker 1: And the process starts with some form of screening and 139 00:06:15,019 --> 00:06:18,660 Speaker 1: if if it's customized well like what Zong was telling us, then. 140 00:06:18,736 --> 00:06:20,967 Speaker 1: Your resume has a higher chance of moving on to 141 00:06:20,967 --> 00:06:23,886 Speaker 1: the next stages. So what happens after the resume has 142 00:06:23,886 --> 00:06:24,516 Speaker 1: been picked up? 143 00:06:24,647 --> 00:06:27,366 Speaker 2: Let's say. Then usually the recruiter would do a phone 144 00:06:27,367 --> 00:06:30,006 Speaker 2: screening in today's age or maybe a video screening, which 145 00:06:30,005 --> 00:06:33,166 Speaker 2: is now so common after COVID-19. Now after some sort 146 00:06:33,166 --> 00:06:36,777 Speaker 2: of phone screening, usually we move into a physical interview 147 00:06:36,777 --> 00:06:40,766 Speaker 2: where possible, though unfortunately, I've still seen companies sticking to 148 00:06:40,766 --> 00:06:44,367 Speaker 2: just video interviews throughout the whole selection process. I think 149 00:06:44,367 --> 00:06:46,957 Speaker 2: that's the ease of convenience and they also thought, oh, 150 00:06:46,967 --> 00:06:48,207 Speaker 2: I don't want you to come all the way. 151 00:06:48,324 --> 00:06:50,473 Speaker 2: Now candidates love it, right? You don't have to take 152 00:06:50,473 --> 00:06:52,644 Speaker 2: a half day leave to go for an interview with 153 00:06:52,644 --> 00:06:55,944 Speaker 2: Goldman Sachs. Then call me old school, but I feel 154 00:06:55,944 --> 00:06:58,984 Speaker 2: when the candidate meet the interviewer in person, you get 155 00:06:58,984 --> 00:07:00,914 Speaker 2: the chance to size him or her up to, is 156 00:07:00,914 --> 00:07:03,152 Speaker 2: this someone that I want to work with or work 157 00:07:03,153 --> 00:07:05,834 Speaker 2: for that you might not be able to tell so 158 00:07:05,834 --> 00:07:10,704 Speaker 2: clearly over an interview, right? So 3 interviews, even physical 159 00:07:10,704 --> 00:07:14,704 Speaker 2: one as a two-way courtship where you're evaluating the company. 160 00:07:14,834 --> 00:07:17,194 Speaker 2: Don't just go to say I need this job badly, 161 00:07:17,234 --> 00:07:17,794 Speaker 2: I need Goldman. 162 00:07:18,191 --> 00:07:19,661 Speaker 2: to love me and hire me. I see. 163 00:07:19,860 --> 00:07:22,501 Speaker 1: So I read that it takes a hiring manager on 164 00:07:22,501 --> 00:07:26,730 Speaker 1: average 10 seconds to decide if the resume is in 165 00:07:26,730 --> 00:07:31,540 Speaker 1: the accept pile or the reject stash. OK, what do 166 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:34,300 Speaker 1: you first look at? If I were to put eye 167 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:38,489 Speaker 1: tracking software into your eyes, which content takes the most 168 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:39,670 Speaker 1: of your eye time? 169 00:07:39,781 --> 00:07:39,901 Speaker 2: I 170 00:07:39,901 --> 00:07:43,941 Speaker 2: would say your last most two recent jobs and your 171 00:07:43,941 --> 00:07:46,580 Speaker 2: time roll, but I want to qualify that first of all, 172 00:07:46,631 --> 00:07:47,460 Speaker 2: it depends on 173 00:07:47,649 --> 00:07:50,339 Speaker 2: The hiring company and the nature of the industry first. 174 00:07:50,510 --> 00:07:53,750 Speaker 2: If you're a startup looking to hire, probably you wouldn't 175 00:07:53,750 --> 00:07:56,179 Speaker 2: be so obsessed about the staying power of an individual, 176 00:07:56,549 --> 00:07:59,100 Speaker 2: but rather you are more obsessed on has this person 177 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:01,670 Speaker 2: done 0 to 1 work, the ability to do something 178 00:08:01,670 --> 00:08:04,750 Speaker 2: from scratch and to scale it up, versus if you 179 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:07,549 Speaker 2: are applying for a more traditional company, then the recruiter 180 00:08:07,549 --> 00:08:09,989 Speaker 2: might value. Oh, did you spend 4 years in your 181 00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:12,828 Speaker 2: last most recent gig and your last second most recent 182 00:08:12,829 --> 00:08:13,769 Speaker 2: gig was it at least 183 00:08:13,842 --> 00:08:16,423 Speaker 2: 3 years or so. So I wouldn't say this is 184 00:08:16,423 --> 00:08:18,653 Speaker 2: what I look for, but depending on the nature of 185 00:08:18,653 --> 00:08:21,852 Speaker 2: the industry, the recruiters may look at it this way. 186 00:08:22,013 --> 00:08:24,453 Speaker 1: So they will still look at the first two jobs. 187 00:08:24,532 --> 00:08:27,852 Speaker 1: It's just that maybe someone from a startup company might 188 00:08:27,852 --> 00:08:30,893 Speaker 1: look at what you have achieved, whereas somebody who is 189 00:08:30,893 --> 00:08:35,412 Speaker 1: in a bigger company, a legacy company value longevity. So 190 00:08:35,413 --> 00:08:36,572 Speaker 1: they might be looking at the 191 00:08:36,572 --> 00:08:39,293 Speaker 2: duration. the first page is usually your last gigs. 192 00:08:40,005 --> 00:08:42,075 Speaker 1: Correct, but there's always the top part where you can 193 00:08:42,075 --> 00:08:43,794 Speaker 1: write a short little bio of yourself. 194 00:08:43,994 --> 00:08:47,484 Speaker 2: Personally, I don't think it is necessary, but if you 195 00:08:47,484 --> 00:08:49,934 Speaker 2: still want to include, I recommend keeping it to 2 196 00:08:49,934 --> 00:08:53,594 Speaker 2: to 3 sentences. Yeah, I've seen resumes where the personal 197 00:08:53,594 --> 00:08:56,994 Speaker 2: bio was almost like 1/3 of the first page and 198 00:08:56,994 --> 00:09:00,593 Speaker 2: all this personal bio is self-description of an individual, not 199 00:09:00,594 --> 00:09:03,794 Speaker 2: substantiated by your achievement or impact at work, depending on 200 00:09:03,794 --> 00:09:06,074 Speaker 2: the interview or the screener who picked up your resume. 201 00:09:06,409 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: He or she may believe or may not believe in 202 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,669 Speaker 2: it rather than going into the qualitative details. 203 00:09:11,719 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: I think Zong mentioned a very important principle which is 204 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,309 Speaker 1: you need to create a resume that is reader friendly, 205 00:09:17,359 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: so you need to put yourself in the shoes of 206 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: the reader. 207 00:09:19,909 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: What are they looking for, what will appeal to them 208 00:09:22,369 --> 00:09:25,330 Speaker 1: in terms of keywords, in terms of what's important information 209 00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:27,690 Speaker 1: for them to see about you, so that it makes 210 00:09:27,690 --> 00:09:31,238 Speaker 1: the whole reading, the whole 10 seconds more worthwhile. Yeah, yeah. 211 00:09:31,409 --> 00:09:35,409 Speaker 1: Now you talked about putting your contact details in the body. Now, 212 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:38,549 Speaker 1: what are the things are necessary to put inside the resume? 213 00:09:38,690 --> 00:09:38,809 Speaker 2: I 214 00:09:38,809 --> 00:09:41,489 Speaker 2: think one thing that I would personally recommend is start 215 00:09:41,489 --> 00:09:44,510 Speaker 2: with the achievement that you have achieved in that company. 216 00:09:44,770 --> 00:09:47,130 Speaker 2: When I was at Unilever, what was the top two. 217 00:09:47,215 --> 00:09:50,434 Speaker 2: Achievement that I've done. So start with the achievement first, 218 00:09:50,645 --> 00:09:53,164 Speaker 2: then followed by some of the tasks or the work 219 00:09:53,164 --> 00:09:56,395 Speaker 2: that you have done in that gig. Yeah. This way 220 00:09:56,645 --> 00:10:00,694 Speaker 2: your achievement steals the limelight and quickly seizes the attention 221 00:10:00,965 --> 00:10:02,164 Speaker 2: very quickly. It catches 222 00:10:02,164 --> 00:10:02,405 Speaker 2: your eye, 223 00:10:02,445 --> 00:10:04,804 Speaker 1: right, because you put numbers inside there, right? Yeah, you 224 00:10:04,804 --> 00:10:07,965 Speaker 1: qualify numbers and it's a very nice welcome distraction for 225 00:10:07,965 --> 00:10:10,885 Speaker 1: your eyes. It gives your eyes, there could be some 226 00:10:10,885 --> 00:10:13,324 Speaker 1: numbers peppered in there too if you just see a 227 00:10:13,325 --> 00:10:14,445 Speaker 1: long essay, you feel like I don't want to. 228 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so when you put some nice words with 229 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,450 Speaker 1: not proper formatting, I think it sends the signals to 230 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: the reader. What I'm getting so far from both of 231 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: you is that it's a bit like storytelling, right? Writing 232 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: a resume is storytelling, so it depends on who your 233 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,919 Speaker 1: reader is. If I'm applying for a managerial position, then 234 00:10:32,919 --> 00:10:35,479 Speaker 1: you want to put straight up that you have led 235 00:10:35,479 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: teams of what sizes, you have led them to achieve 236 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: certain transformations 237 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 2: that you can include in your 2 to 3. 238 00:10:41,965 --> 00:10:44,434 Speaker 2: This is a summary if that is the intent. OK, 239 00:10:44,515 --> 00:10:44,784 Speaker 1: what 240 00:10:44,784 --> 00:10:47,593 Speaker 1: if though I am applying for a specialist role, but 241 00:10:47,594 --> 00:10:49,955 Speaker 1: I don't want to put myself into a corner and 242 00:10:49,955 --> 00:10:51,994 Speaker 1: say that this is what I'm good for. I want 243 00:10:51,994 --> 00:10:55,734 Speaker 1: to open up the possibility of maybe down the road, 244 00:10:55,835 --> 00:10:58,314 Speaker 1: you might want to consider me for a more managerial 245 00:10:58,315 --> 00:11:02,275 Speaker 1: position because that means that I get promoted. What then 246 00:11:02,275 --> 00:11:03,554 Speaker 1: should I focus in this 247 00:11:03,554 --> 00:11:08,085 Speaker 2: resume? You must remember the three E's, your experience, your exposure, 248 00:11:08,135 --> 00:11:09,074 Speaker 2: and your education. 249 00:11:09,390 --> 00:11:12,619 Speaker 2: The experience part, keep it 1 to 2 pages at 250 00:11:12,619 --> 00:11:15,630 Speaker 2: max I would feel that exposure, what are the things 251 00:11:15,630 --> 00:11:19,429 Speaker 2: you do outside work, volunteering or even part of associations 252 00:11:19,429 --> 00:11:22,710 Speaker 2: that you'll be very, be very active in, and then lastly, 253 00:11:22,719 --> 00:11:25,609 Speaker 2: your education, keep it short, where did you graduate from, etc. 254 00:11:26,109 --> 00:11:29,500 Speaker 2: And I, I think back to your point on, on, 255 00:11:29,549 --> 00:11:32,309 Speaker 2: on that, your resume is supposed to land you an 256 00:11:32,309 --> 00:11:35,549 Speaker 2: interview where possible. And once you land, if you land 257 00:11:35,549 --> 00:11:39,700 Speaker 2: the interview, then use that conversation to highlight your career aspirations, 258 00:11:39,869 --> 00:11:41,469 Speaker 2: how you may or may not want to be only 259 00:11:41,469 --> 00:11:44,150 Speaker 2: a specialist, and then probe the company if they provide 260 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: that option and opportunity and pathway for you to pursue. OK, 261 00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:51,869 Speaker 1: but be very honest with me, how many recruiters actually 262 00:11:51,869 --> 00:11:53,390 Speaker 1: look at the volunteering part? 263 00:11:53,604 --> 00:11:56,204 Speaker 1: Honestly, I think that volunteering part is a nice to 264 00:11:56,205 --> 00:11:59,125 Speaker 1: have and possibly people will put it in maybe if 265 00:11:59,125 --> 00:12:02,205 Speaker 1: they are headed towards politics or they are headed towards, 266 00:12:02,255 --> 00:12:05,044 Speaker 1: I don't know, like a director position or they want 267 00:12:05,044 --> 00:12:06,885 Speaker 1: to join some association, then they want to try to 268 00:12:06,885 --> 00:12:10,005 Speaker 1: put everything in, shore it up, right? But how many 269 00:12:10,005 --> 00:12:12,965 Speaker 1: recruiters or hiring managers actually look at the volunteering part, 270 00:12:13,005 --> 00:12:14,405 Speaker 1: the exposure part like you 271 00:12:14,405 --> 00:12:14,593 Speaker 1: said. 272 00:12:15,405 --> 00:12:17,044 Speaker 2: I think it has to go back to what are 273 00:12:17,044 --> 00:12:19,765 Speaker 2: the companies that you're applying for, right? You want to 274 00:12:19,765 --> 00:12:20,804 Speaker 2: work for a company. 275 00:12:21,150 --> 00:12:24,710 Speaker 2: That has a good purpose. I believe that companies with 276 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:30,150 Speaker 2: purpose last, brands with purpose grow, and people with purpose strives. 277 00:12:30,429 --> 00:12:32,429 Speaker 2: And when you look at a good recruiter, when you 278 00:12:32,429 --> 00:12:34,949 Speaker 2: look at the resume and look at that volunteering part 279 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:38,669 Speaker 2: or the exposure part, you get a sense of what 280 00:12:38,669 --> 00:12:42,219 Speaker 2: drives this individual, what is his purpose in life, and 281 00:12:42,549 --> 00:12:44,580 Speaker 2: then see if there's a marriage between. 282 00:12:45,020 --> 00:12:47,608 Speaker 2: His passion and what the company stands for, 283 00:12:48,140 --> 00:12:50,109 Speaker 1: you know, this thing about what should I focus on 284 00:12:50,109 --> 00:12:52,770 Speaker 1: in my resume, especially if today we have got a 285 00:12:52,770 --> 00:12:54,859 Speaker 1: lot of good experiences and everything feels like it should 286 00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:58,618 Speaker 1: be in there, right? I, I typically would advise us 287 00:12:58,619 --> 00:13:00,260 Speaker 1: to take a look at, are you aware of this 288 00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:01,500 Speaker 1: principle called the Gestalt? 289 00:13:02,059 --> 00:13:07,348 Speaker 1: Principles. Basically, it's a set of rules or laws, right, 290 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:11,669 Speaker 1: principles that are developed to help people design better user experiences. 291 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:17,270 Speaker 1: It's meant to allow people to quickly understand complexity and 292 00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:20,429 Speaker 1: make sense of complexity. So when I apply this the 293 00:13:20,429 --> 00:13:25,909 Speaker 1: principles into resume, I treat the resume as a complex document, right? 294 00:13:25,989 --> 00:13:28,030 Speaker 1: Just how our careers are actually very complex. We've got 295 00:13:28,030 --> 00:13:30,830 Speaker 1: many different experiences, we do many different things across many 296 00:13:30,830 --> 00:13:31,390 Speaker 1: different jobs. 297 00:13:32,330 --> 00:13:37,340 Speaker 1: And how do we quickly design our resume according to 298 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:39,659 Speaker 1: this principles so that people can still see and make 299 00:13:39,659 --> 00:13:43,238 Speaker 1: sense very quickly? Who am I? across all of all 300 00:13:43,239 --> 00:13:46,140 Speaker 1: these experiences. So if I use a metaphor, right, like 301 00:13:46,140 --> 00:13:49,579 Speaker 1: fish bone and the meat around the bone, we can 302 00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: look like that very fat fish with a lot of meat, right, 303 00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:53,979 Speaker 1: and that's what we want to look like. But at 304 00:13:53,979 --> 00:13:55,770 Speaker 1: the end of the day, if we strip away the meat, 305 00:13:55,940 --> 00:13:59,059 Speaker 1: what's the bone that's there, the core, which is what Zhurong, 306 00:13:59,070 --> 00:14:01,510 Speaker 1: I guess was also bringing up, right, that that. 307 00:14:01,580 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: The essence of who you are, why are you doing 308 00:14:03,599 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: what you are doing, the purpose of your career, there's 309 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: a narrative, a storytelling like you said, right, that needs 310 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: to come across. So how do we bring across this 311 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,669 Speaker 1: storytelling in our resume? We can design it according to 312 00:14:14,669 --> 00:14:17,510 Speaker 1: Gor principles, and some of these people are like, for example, 313 00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:22,340 Speaker 1: putting in content, words, experiences at different places so that 314 00:14:22,599 --> 00:14:25,130 Speaker 1: it signals certain things about you. And also, of course, 315 00:14:25,159 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: things like less is more, right, you don't have to 316 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: put everything you put in the right thing so that 317 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: people send the right signal to their mind. 318 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,150 Speaker 1: And of course, I think one of the things that 319 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:35,349 Speaker 1: I would advise people to do is to test. So 320 00:14:35,349 --> 00:14:37,549 Speaker 1: take your resume, give it to 5 different people and 321 00:14:37,549 --> 00:14:39,380 Speaker 1: ask them what do they think you're trying to say 322 00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:41,109 Speaker 1: in your resume. So you want to give it to 323 00:14:41,109 --> 00:14:43,179 Speaker 1: a range of people so that you can see that 324 00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:44,549 Speaker 1: regardless of what 325 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:49,349 Speaker 1: Experiences they're reading from, how are they perceiving you? OK. 326 00:14:49,599 --> 00:14:52,179 Speaker 1: What are some red flags in a resume that will 327 00:14:52,179 --> 00:14:55,380 Speaker 1: make a recruiter like you toss 328 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:57,429 Speaker 2: it out? red flags. Maybe I will answer it not 329 00:14:57,429 --> 00:15:00,950 Speaker 2: from my perspective but from how I know some recruiters, they, 330 00:15:01,119 --> 00:15:04,559 Speaker 2: they have told me. I mean, I mean one of 331 00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:07,219 Speaker 2: the very common ones would be, oh, there's gap years 332 00:15:07,219 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: in between jobs and I'm really I'm really. 333 00:15:11,294 --> 00:15:14,984 Speaker 2: Agains that though, and I feel very deeply passionate about 334 00:15:14,984 --> 00:15:18,275 Speaker 2: this because in the 1980s, it is common for people 335 00:15:18,275 --> 00:15:21,184 Speaker 2: to find a job and stay for 20 or 30 years. 336 00:15:21,275 --> 00:15:24,075 Speaker 2: Whereas if you look at now, economic cycles are shorter, 337 00:15:24,195 --> 00:15:27,775 Speaker 2: ups and downs are faster, layoffs are increasingly common, and 338 00:15:27,775 --> 00:15:30,484 Speaker 2: I really believe layoffs may not be an issue with 339 00:15:30,484 --> 00:15:33,554 Speaker 2: the individual. It's just because of the business needs and 340 00:15:33,554 --> 00:15:36,835 Speaker 2: hence I urge recruiters do not see gap years as 341 00:15:36,835 --> 00:15:37,765 Speaker 2: a red flag, but 342 00:15:38,359 --> 00:15:41,830 Speaker 2: Normalize the gap periods, there could be people who took 343 00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:46,859 Speaker 2: a gap period for house giving, caretaking, or really unfortunately 344 00:15:46,859 --> 00:15:49,159 Speaker 2: went through a layoff, and I think it should be 345 00:15:49,159 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: normalized and treated as common. 346 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,450 Speaker 2: And not using the same yardstick like the 1980s where 347 00:15:54,450 --> 00:15:58,929 Speaker 2: we want a continuous period of employment for 35 years. 348 00:15:59,299 --> 00:16:01,409 Speaker 2: I think those days is a little bit 349 00:16:01,409 --> 00:16:01,890 Speaker 2: over. 350 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:05,219 Speaker 1: What about if you are reading the resume and you're 351 00:16:05,219 --> 00:16:08,650 Speaker 1: very confused because this person, everything is just like a 352 00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:10,500 Speaker 1: jumble jumble of 353 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:10,900 Speaker 1: stuff. 354 00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:12,710 Speaker 2: If you're working in a startup. 355 00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:16,559 Speaker 2: In a very cutthroat or hardcore industry, then maybe such 356 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: a profile will be fascinating because you want innovation, creativity, 357 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: and not be bounded by the traditional boundaries. So a 358 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: good recruiter knows the company well to know how to 359 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,150 Speaker 2: hunt or look at recipes that may be suitable. Now, 360 00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: when recruiters read resumes, because we're all humans, right? 361 00:16:35,429 --> 00:16:39,299 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're bound to be subjective biases. OK. So 362 00:16:39,299 --> 00:16:41,729 Speaker 1: it could be maybe if you put an address in there, 363 00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:44,659 Speaker 1: here in Singapore it's very obvious like which district you 364 00:16:44,659 --> 00:16:48,849 Speaker 1: live in. Yeah, you live in District 9, District 10 people, 365 00:16:48,859 --> 00:16:52,710 Speaker 1: people automatically like it or not infer certain things right 366 00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:56,219 Speaker 1: about you. So how can we work around them knowing 367 00:16:56,219 --> 00:16:58,710 Speaker 1: that the person who's going to be reading my resume. 368 00:16:59,140 --> 00:17:01,030 Speaker 1: Might already infer some things about me. 369 00:17:01,219 --> 00:17:03,890 Speaker 2: So first of all, some tips you as a candidate, 370 00:17:03,979 --> 00:17:08,260 Speaker 2: then we should not over include certain information like address, 371 00:17:08,420 --> 00:17:11,099 Speaker 2: I don't think it is necessary. So some people may 372 00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:13,699 Speaker 2: not realize you don't even really need to put the 373 00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:16,579 Speaker 2: year of when you graduate from your school. You can 374 00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:20,060 Speaker 2: graduate from the National University of Singapore or MIT, but 375 00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:22,089 Speaker 2: you don't have to say 2007. 376 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:22,849 Speaker 1: OK. 377 00:17:25,329 --> 00:17:28,030 Speaker 1: But then do you put your secondary school, your junior college, 378 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,260 Speaker 1: your poly, that kind of stuff, because people can again 379 00:17:31,469 --> 00:17:34,939 Speaker 1: in Singapore infer the route that you took and then 380 00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:38,669 Speaker 1: extrapolate and say oh maybe you come from a certain SES, 381 00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:40,149 Speaker 1: social economic 382 00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:40,869 Speaker 1: strata, 383 00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:43,750 Speaker 2: and it's very true in resumes. I would see people 384 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:46,469 Speaker 2: putting secondary school when they come from the usual, the 385 00:17:46,469 --> 00:17:47,550 Speaker 2: branded schools I mean. 386 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: At least not in the recruiters that I've met and 387 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,699 Speaker 2: also as a HR professional, I've never let a secondary school, 388 00:17:54,719 --> 00:17:58,369 Speaker 2: a branded one influence if I was shortlisted you or not. 389 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,770 Speaker 2: I mean, not really. 390 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it adds that little food for thought 391 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,839 Speaker 1: signal that affirms certain perceptions, but when it comes to 392 00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:10,899 Speaker 1: really selecting, you're still going back to the experiences, the achievements, 393 00:18:10,959 --> 00:18:13,390 Speaker 1: what you have done, I think those are more tangible 394 00:18:13,390 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: things that recruiters would. 395 00:18:14,969 --> 00:18:17,890 Speaker 1: Look out for there was a situation where someone was 396 00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:20,488 Speaker 1: applying for a job in Jurong and they're staying in 397 00:18:20,489 --> 00:18:24,290 Speaker 1: Pasir Ris. and then I think the recruiter. 398 00:18:25,339 --> 00:18:29,300 Speaker 1: Just discounted the resume saying that this person might be 399 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:31,300 Speaker 1: late for work or not. 400 00:18:32,739 --> 00:18:35,020 Speaker 2: But what if this person has BTO flat near Boon, 401 00:18:36,099 --> 00:18:39,420 Speaker 1: or drives like a BMW. I was taking a ride 402 00:18:39,420 --> 00:18:41,500 Speaker 1: with a family car every day towards the west side. 403 00:18:41,739 --> 00:18:43,020 Speaker 1: You cannot assume these things. 404 00:18:43,665 --> 00:18:47,535 Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. And then the other one is, of course, photographs, photographs, right? 405 00:18:47,665 --> 00:18:50,035 Speaker 1: Some people say you must put, for example, if you're 406 00:18:50,035 --> 00:18:52,534 Speaker 1: applying for certain kinds of jobs, you should put a photograph, 407 00:18:52,814 --> 00:18:55,145 Speaker 1: but I think by and large, if there's no need to, 408 00:18:55,265 --> 00:18:58,344 Speaker 1: my own personal opinion is you shouldn't put because photographs 409 00:18:58,344 --> 00:19:01,024 Speaker 1: are highly subjective. You could be too good looking. 410 00:19:01,579 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: You could be not up to someone's expectations and then 411 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,599 Speaker 1: you wasted that 10 seconds because the person's mind is 412 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: on the photograph instead of reading the other things. But 413 00:19:10,199 --> 00:19:13,810 Speaker 1: at which point can I inject my own personality into 414 00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:17,430 Speaker 1: the resume? Because I've read resumes where I can sense 415 00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:20,069 Speaker 1: this person is fun, like there's a cheeky tone to it. 416 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: Maybe it's in the 1st 2 or 3 sentences, but 417 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,188 Speaker 1: how much is too much. 418 00:19:24,479 --> 00:19:27,709 Speaker 2: I've seen resumes in my career where they started putting 419 00:19:27,984 --> 00:19:31,015 Speaker 2: Each competency 4 out of 5 stars, and then they 420 00:19:31,015 --> 00:19:34,214 Speaker 2: color their stars. So it looks so visual and it's 421 00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:37,534 Speaker 2: very pretty, but the truth is, the ATS system is 422 00:19:37,535 --> 00:19:39,895 Speaker 2: not going to be able to capture the stars that 423 00:19:39,895 --> 00:19:43,415 Speaker 2: you colored in yellow, the 4 out of 5 for communication, 424 00:19:43,694 --> 00:19:46,334 Speaker 2: the 5 out of 5 for empathy, and the 3 425 00:19:46,334 --> 00:19:48,764 Speaker 2: out of 5 for investment intelligence. 426 00:19:48,895 --> 00:19:51,535 Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. I always advise people don't 427 00:19:51,535 --> 00:19:54,415 Speaker 1: bother putting that because the reader cannot validate. 428 00:19:54,959 --> 00:19:58,630 Speaker 1: That rating that you give yourself, we always like, I 429 00:19:58,630 --> 00:20:01,708 Speaker 1: like to give myself 5 popcorn. 5 stars all the 430 00:20:01,709 --> 00:20:04,988 Speaker 1: way right? because we Asians, we tend to downplay, OK, 431 00:20:05,239 --> 00:20:08,270 Speaker 1: we give 1 or 25 and 3 and then some 4s, 432 00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:09,169 Speaker 1: it's very arbitrary, 433 00:20:09,390 --> 00:20:11,589 Speaker 2: but it looks very pretty though. I mean it is 434 00:20:11,589 --> 00:20:12,609 Speaker 2: very pretty, but 435 00:20:13,060 --> 00:20:15,619 Speaker 2: Maybe it is suitable for the advertising industry. I'm not sure. 436 00:20:15,780 --> 00:20:17,060 Speaker 2: I'm stereotyping here, but 437 00:20:17,339 --> 00:20:21,219 Speaker 1: yeah, but who knows, I think, I think those are charts, right, 438 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:23,889 Speaker 1: and they usually come in one pages, one page resumes, right? 439 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:25,379 Speaker 1: I think those are really good if today you are 440 00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:28,218 Speaker 1: out for networking. Yeah, if you're out for networking and 441 00:20:28,219 --> 00:20:30,060 Speaker 1: you're meeting somebody for the first time. 442 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:32,109 Speaker 1: And maybe finding out a little bit about the job, 443 00:20:32,469 --> 00:20:34,069 Speaker 1: do you have something on hand to show me and 444 00:20:34,069 --> 00:20:37,030 Speaker 1: you straight away produce that out. And then very quickly 445 00:20:37,030 --> 00:20:38,790 Speaker 1: at a glance, you can see that and it doesn't 446 00:20:38,790 --> 00:20:41,030 Speaker 1: become that arbitrary anymore because they have had a conversation 447 00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:43,430 Speaker 1: with you. Well, I think today you really, really gave 448 00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:46,390 Speaker 1: us so many tips, so many hacks. I mean, I 449 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:47,189 Speaker 1: for one will be 450 00:20:47,234 --> 00:20:50,574 Speaker 1: Looking through my resume, not because I am job hunting, 451 00:20:50,604 --> 00:20:53,385 Speaker 1: but I think it helps to consistently look at it 452 00:20:53,385 --> 00:20:55,425 Speaker 1: so that when you really need it, you don't have 453 00:20:55,425 --> 00:20:59,385 Speaker 1: to do this major overhaul. So thank you so much 454 00:20:59,385 --> 00:21:03,064 Speaker 1: for your time and your expert advice. Thank you for 455 00:21:03,064 --> 00:21:03,944 Speaker 1: having me. Thank you. 456 00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:11,150 Speaker 1: Welcome back to our Ask Me Anything segment where Gerald 457 00:21:11,150 --> 00:21:14,449 Speaker 1: and I take on a work-related question that you have 458 00:21:14,449 --> 00:21:17,609 Speaker 1: sent to us. Now today's question was sent in by 459 00:21:17,609 --> 00:21:21,609 Speaker 1: a listener who I'll call Xavier. He says he's in 460 00:21:21,609 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: his twenties and has just resigned from a job. Now, 461 00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:28,050 Speaker 1: initially he thought he was not the right person for 462 00:21:28,050 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: the job. 463 00:21:28,895 --> 00:21:32,115 Speaker 1: After stating his intention to leave, and he told his manager, 464 00:21:32,205 --> 00:21:35,906 Speaker 1: the interactions were a bit disappointing. Now, it sounded like 465 00:21:35,906 --> 00:21:38,365 Speaker 1: Xavier was not sure whether he was set up for 466 00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:40,725 Speaker 1: success in the first place. OK, let me give you 467 00:21:40,725 --> 00:21:43,086 Speaker 1: an example of what he said. I knew that I 468 00:21:43,086 --> 00:21:46,285 Speaker 1: was the first official hire for the position, but I 469 00:21:46,286 --> 00:21:48,566 Speaker 1: was also saddened to hear from my manager that they 470 00:21:48,566 --> 00:21:50,004 Speaker 1: knew from the start that 471 00:21:50,052 --> 00:21:53,561 Speaker 1: Having a less experienced individual like myself was not going 472 00:21:53,561 --> 00:21:56,682 Speaker 1: to work out and that the higher ups wanted someone 473 00:21:56,682 --> 00:21:59,962 Speaker 1: like myself on board because I was much less experienced 474 00:21:59,962 --> 00:22:03,802 Speaker 1: and therefore would not command as high a salary. Yeah, 475 00:22:03,921 --> 00:22:06,682 Speaker 1: so Xavier is now searching for jobs, OK, and he 476 00:22:06,682 --> 00:22:09,881 Speaker 1: wonders if he should disclose what he went through in 477 00:22:09,881 --> 00:22:11,112 Speaker 1: his next job interview. 478 00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:14,260 Speaker 1: If asked for his reasons for leaving, should he say 479 00:22:14,260 --> 00:22:16,739 Speaker 1: what he went through? Will it hurt his chances of 480 00:22:16,739 --> 00:22:20,420 Speaker 1: getting a job? Wow. So sounds like there's actually a 481 00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:22,780 Speaker 1: few things happening here, right? The first one is, of course, 482 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,829 Speaker 1: Xavier and his feelings about how he has departed from 483 00:22:26,829 --> 00:22:29,449 Speaker 1: the last job, and this has a lot to do 484 00:22:29,449 --> 00:22:30,849 Speaker 1: with how he feels that 485 00:22:31,199 --> 00:22:33,900 Speaker 1: He was set up for failure, right? I think it's 486 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: probably quite confusing for Xavier because when you get into 487 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,619 Speaker 1: a job first and then you thought that you're the 488 00:22:38,619 --> 00:22:42,660 Speaker 1: best person hired, and in Xavier's case, he probably thought 489 00:22:42,660 --> 00:22:44,369 Speaker 1: there was a case and then when things didn't work 490 00:22:44,369 --> 00:22:46,958 Speaker 1: out and he wanted to resign and the boss told him, uh, 491 00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:48,859 Speaker 1: actually we kind of know that you're going to fail. Yeah, 492 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:49,659 Speaker 1: can you imagine. 493 00:22:49,770 --> 00:22:52,569 Speaker 1: Yeah, and and then we only got you in because 494 00:22:52,569 --> 00:22:56,079 Speaker 1: you know you were cheaper. OK, OK, so I can 495 00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:58,939 Speaker 1: imagine Xavier and we can imagine how it's very confusing 496 00:22:58,939 --> 00:23:02,739 Speaker 1: for him, right? And this definitely would um dent his 497 00:23:02,739 --> 00:23:06,500 Speaker 1: confidence for the future job interviews, especially if he has 498 00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:08,900 Speaker 1: to ask, he has to tell people like why he 499 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,218 Speaker 1: he wanted to resign without a job. Yeah, yeah. So 500 00:23:12,219 --> 00:23:14,619 Speaker 1: I think this being a very confusing time for Xavier. 501 00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:16,030 Speaker 1: Xavier would probably need to 502 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:19,140 Speaker 1: Find some closure or some way of thinking or reframing 503 00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:21,659 Speaker 1: this situation so that it doesn't get carried forward to 504 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:23,900 Speaker 1: the future. I think there can be a lot of resentment, 505 00:23:23,939 --> 00:23:27,020 Speaker 1: a lot of disappointment, help with the previous job, and 506 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:30,020 Speaker 1: this can actually easily show in the next job. During 507 00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:33,579 Speaker 1: the interview when employers, the HR, they are sniffing for 508 00:23:33,579 --> 00:23:34,429 Speaker 1: anything that is not. 509 00:23:34,829 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: Proper, they were probe a little bit more, a little 510 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,709 Speaker 1: bit more, and then it gets out. So Xavier has 511 00:23:38,709 --> 00:23:41,698 Speaker 1: to really come to terms with this situation first. If 512 00:23:41,699 --> 00:23:43,270 Speaker 1: you were in Xavier's suit, what would you do? Yeah, 513 00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:45,869 Speaker 1: you know what, it's true, the psychological part is going 514 00:23:45,869 --> 00:23:48,149 Speaker 1: to be very difficult, but also at the same time, OK, 515 00:23:48,229 --> 00:23:50,390 Speaker 1: I'm a very half glass full kind of person. 516 00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:52,550 Speaker 1: So I think the first thing I would do after 517 00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:55,438 Speaker 1: I have licked my wounds and tell myself it's not me, 518 00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:58,989 Speaker 1: it's them. Yeah. I think that's not me, it's them. 519 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,989 Speaker 1: I think it would be to also see that actually, 520 00:24:01,239 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: even if I was the only person for that role, 521 00:24:04,199 --> 00:24:07,319 Speaker 1: even though less experienced, cheap, but you know what, there 522 00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: must be something in me that the employer found that 523 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: I was hireable. Otherwise they could have just kept the 524 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 1: position open. 525 00:24:14,109 --> 00:24:16,569 Speaker 1: So maybe I will need to reflect back on all 526 00:24:16,569 --> 00:24:19,329 Speaker 1: the things that I've done and ask myself, what is 527 00:24:19,329 --> 00:24:21,619 Speaker 1: it that I can bring to the next job role? 528 00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:24,810 Speaker 1: Are there transferable skills? Are there things that I would 529 00:24:24,810 --> 00:24:27,448 Speaker 1: consider my strength? You brought up a really important point, right, 530 00:24:27,489 --> 00:24:29,839 Speaker 1: that it's it's them, not you. 531 00:24:30,099 --> 00:24:33,270 Speaker 1: And you were picked for the job as the best 532 00:24:33,270 --> 00:24:36,659 Speaker 1: possible hire at that price at that point of time. 533 00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:39,430 Speaker 1: So I think these are positives, the silver linings that 534 00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:42,228 Speaker 1: Xavier can take along with him. I think Xavier has 535 00:24:42,229 --> 00:24:44,790 Speaker 1: to remember that he was doing a job that was 536 00:24:44,790 --> 00:24:48,270 Speaker 1: scoped to a higher level, more experienced. He was trusted 537 00:24:48,270 --> 00:24:49,619 Speaker 1: with kind of responsibility. 538 00:24:49,939 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: And this is something that Xaia can probably take forward 539 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,270 Speaker 1: to the next employer to share that, you know what, 540 00:24:54,479 --> 00:24:56,958 Speaker 1: I was doing a job that was for someone that 541 00:24:56,959 --> 00:24:59,429 Speaker 1: was a lot more experienced. I learned a lot from it. 542 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:02,079 Speaker 1: I realized that I needed to find something else. Yeah 543 00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,079 Speaker 1: and I can take on more. I have proven that 544 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: I can take on more, so that's why I'm applying 545 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,579 Speaker 1: for this job. I also like to think that from 546 00:25:08,579 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: Xavier's perspective, why would the boss tell Xavier, you know, this, 547 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,819 Speaker 1: that is such a low. 548 00:25:15,619 --> 00:25:16,930 Speaker 1: Whether is it low move or is it could it 549 00:25:16,930 --> 00:25:19,449 Speaker 1: be because they actually have quite an open relationship like 550 00:25:19,609 --> 00:25:22,650 Speaker 1: like good communication, they trust each other to say the 551 00:25:22,650 --> 00:25:28,489 Speaker 1: boss Xavier, could be that the supervisor really said that 552 00:25:28,489 --> 00:25:31,369 Speaker 1: to maybe make Xavier feel that it's not you, it's 553 00:25:31,369 --> 00:25:34,770 Speaker 1: actually us. We did a mistake, so I'm I'm trying 554 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:36,430 Speaker 1: to do something good by telling you that, but of 555 00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:39,208 Speaker 1: course it has that the other unintended effect on Xavier, 556 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,069 Speaker 1: which is why why Xavier wrote in. 557 00:25:41,609 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: So I do think that open communication could be something 558 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,569 Speaker 1: that's also of a silver lining to show that you 559 00:25:46,569 --> 00:25:49,369 Speaker 1: know what those things didn't work out, you still could 560 00:25:49,369 --> 00:25:52,569 Speaker 1: get along with the people in your company. Well, Xavier, 561 00:25:52,650 --> 00:25:55,050 Speaker 1: I I hope that your situation becomes better and both 562 00:25:55,050 --> 00:25:56,650 Speaker 1: of us are really sorry that you were put in 563 00:25:56,650 --> 00:25:59,579 Speaker 1: this position, but like we have been talking about here, 564 00:25:59,650 --> 00:26:02,208 Speaker 1: I think there are silver linings in this situation. 565 00:26:02,489 --> 00:26:05,020 Speaker 1: You can use some of these as you approach your 566 00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:08,938 Speaker 1: next job interview. Don't let this one setback affect you. 567 00:26:09,140 --> 00:26:12,180 Speaker 1: So if like Xavier, you have a work-related question, do 568 00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:16,750 Speaker 1: write into us. We are at CNA podcasts at Mediacorp.com.sg. 569 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:21,060 Speaker 1: We're also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, me, Listen, and YouTube 570 00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:21,810 Speaker 1: where a video 571 00:26:21,854 --> 00:26:24,805 Speaker 1: Version of this is at. The team behind the Work 572 00:26:24,805 --> 00:26:29,964 Speaker 1: It podcast is Janaini Johari, Joanne Chan, Saya Win, Alison Jenner, 573 00:26:30,244 --> 00:26:34,324 Speaker 1: Shahzad Dalilia and Christina Robert. Video by Hanida Amin. I'm 574 00:26:34,324 --> 00:26:37,875 Speaker 1: Gerald and I'm Tiffany. Have a great work week ahead 575 00:26:37,875 --> 00:26:41,074 Speaker 1: and don't let anybody tell you you are not good enough.