Speaker 1: Hi guys and welcome back to the Building Financial fitness podcast.
Speaker 1: Today we're back with us again, Yvonne, and our topic
Speaker 1: today is navigating careers in your 50s. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thank you, June, for having me back again.
Speaker 1: The last time we spoke, we were talking about the
Speaker 1: amazing work that you and Daniel are doing as a
Speaker 1: family unit.
Speaker 1: And the power dynamics in a couple, but today I
Speaker 1: wanted to get you back on to talk about another
Speaker 1: topic which I think is relevant, especially in our current
Speaker 1: aging society, which is career navigation beyond your 50s. But
Speaker 1: before we go into the meat of it,
Speaker 1: Perhaps you would like to give the audience some context
Speaker 1: about your journey as an amazing mom, as a career woman. Like,
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about where you came from
Speaker 1: and where you are now.
Speaker 2: Well, I graduated with a bachelor in civil instructor, so
Speaker 2: I was a civil instructoral engineer. People were surprised, like, yes,
Speaker 2: I was. And then I kind of navigate my career
Speaker 2: into logistics sector. Again, then I chance upon, of course,
Speaker 2: you know, mentors in my life who really, you know, like.
Speaker 2: my career path progressively. So from logistics, I joined Petrochemicals. Petrochemical,
Speaker 2: I was there for 20 odd years already in two MNCs.
Speaker 2: So that is my humble career. Also done many roles
Speaker 2: in that 2 petrochemical companies, and business transformation.
Speaker 2: In investment projects, in marketing, so dabble in different roles
Speaker 2: and then progressed quite nicely through my career.
Speaker 1: One
Speaker 1: of the often talked about topics in my gerontological studies
Speaker 1: when it comes to job marketplace is obviously ageism in
Speaker 1: the workplace and have you experienced that? How do you,
Speaker 1: if you have experienced that, how have you cope with
Speaker 1: that or
Speaker 1: Have you seen it in play, even though it may
Speaker 1: not be directed at you, because to be honest, you're
Speaker 1: quite young.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that compliment, quite young. Yes, yes, I'm
Speaker 2: just touching 50. A is a reality. I've encountered some
Speaker 2: managers who are, well, in a way, they were trying
Speaker 2: to be subtle, but it's so obvious to me that, OK,
Speaker 2: I prefer a younger one because they are more mallable
Speaker 2: than a senior one. Those kind of comments are.
Speaker 2: Sadly, I've actually encountered myself. But for me, it's a, well,
Speaker 2: a little bit senior work in a corporate world, I
Speaker 2: like to mix with the young ones because that's why
Speaker 2: we learn, we mingle, we cross as change. So for me,
Speaker 2: I tend to also cross that learning with the younger ones,
Speaker 2: on technology, on what's happening, and all that because I've
Speaker 2: got two teenage kids at home. So for me, it
Speaker 2: works pretty OK how that cross has change happened, but
Speaker 2: I think ageism for me is a reality. And also
Speaker 2: in the study also that we we know that by 2030,
Speaker 2: 1 in 4 Singaporeans will be 65 and above. And
Speaker 2: there is a rising 10% from today, that's 1 in 6.
Speaker 2: So it is a reality, we have to accept it,
Speaker 2: and we have to just embrace that. There will be
Speaker 2: more senior workers in the workforce. And looking also down
Speaker 2: at myself, coming from the Gen X profile, we have
Speaker 2: been through also really major financial.
Speaker 2: In 1987 was the Black Monday, the stock market crashes.
Speaker 2: Also in 2008 and 2009, also the recent COVID pandemic.
Speaker 2: I think we've been through a lot in our generation.
Speaker 2: So I would say we are resilient, we are adaptable.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's really the individual
Speaker 2: who have that mindset, you want to learn, you want
Speaker 2: to upscale. You never stop being active. Like for me,
Speaker 2: I do a lot of sports. I do sports every day.
Speaker 2: I swim, I go to the gym.
Speaker 2: They are cheat dates, of course, but um, on average,
Speaker 2: I do it almost like every other day. I do
Speaker 2: rock climbing, I do tracking. So I think at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, it's really down to the individual,
Speaker 2: how you want to live your life. Positive mindset and
Speaker 2: keep learning. And you
Speaker 1: raise a good point there because people, when they think
Speaker 1: about age in the organization, they always think about chronological age,
Speaker 1: like they look at your welfare and and that is
Speaker 1: a number on the HR on the employee database, right,
Speaker 1: that increases plus one every year.
Speaker 1: But chronological age is so different from our biological and
Speaker 1: functional age, because somebody who is 50 or 40 could
Speaker 1: be very different in terms of energy, in terms of attitude,
Speaker 1: in terms of the zest that they bring to the job.
Speaker 1: So I think that you raise a good point there
Speaker 1: which is, you know, if somebody who's in their 50s
Speaker 1: and they're thinking about career navigation or worrying about, you know,
Speaker 1: whenever there's the next job cut, they always feel that
Speaker 1: the ones who are older and getting paid more will
Speaker 1: be the ones to go first. Like it or not,
Speaker 1: and it may not be good to hear that, but
Speaker 1: it is the truth, sometimes the unspoken truth when there's
Speaker 1: looming job cuts.
Speaker 2: I would say yes, that's again, the reality, right, given
Speaker 2: the choice between a more senior versus a young one
Speaker 2: that has many more years and energy to contribute. I've
Speaker 2: seen that as well that happened in in some of
Speaker 2: the job cuts. But I'm a believer myself that I
Speaker 2: work in a company, I would step down when it's
Speaker 2: my peak performance days. So I haven't mentioned that I've
Speaker 2: left the last company after 11 years. Why so? Not
Speaker 2: that I'm afraid of being cut. Because for me, it's
Speaker 2: when I'm at a peak, that's where
Speaker 2: I have this mindset that I need to step out
Speaker 2: to embrace another step change of myself, to challenge myself
Speaker 2: that I can do something else. There are still colleagues
Speaker 2: of mine who are still there, you know, probably waiting
Speaker 2: for a good package of retirement, but to me, it's
Speaker 2: not working for me. I'm not saying that it's the
Speaker 2: right thing or wrong thing, but to me, I don't
Speaker 2: believe in that. I believe in me taking control of
Speaker 2: my life. I believe in me making a difference in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 2: It might not be easy. I won't say this is
Speaker 2: all rosy because when you leave a cushy job, right,
Speaker 2: a big income, you start to wonder, am I doing
Speaker 2: the wrong thing? Am I making the wrong decision for
Speaker 2: the family? So a lot of consultation, a lot of, uh,
Speaker 2: thinking being done before I decide to say, I'm done.
Speaker 2: I need to find something else to do. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have career break now, Juniors as we speak, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I appreciate the honesty when it comes to
Speaker 1: doing that and like you said, it's not easy to
Speaker 1: step out of like cushy job, you know, like the
Speaker 1: golden handcuffs kind of analogy, and it's also not easy
Speaker 1: to step up when you're at your peak.
Speaker 1: Because people would often think like why and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of questions that you need to feel, but when
Speaker 1: we think about our lives, the most precious assets is
Speaker 1: actually the time that we have here.
Speaker 1: Then with another 10 years in this cushy job make
Speaker 1: sense in the grand scheme of things, which is our lifetime.
Speaker 1: I think that's the perspective that you
Speaker 1: took.
Speaker 2: Right, right, exactly. So I took that bold steps. So
Speaker 2: for me, the next 10 years has been really, really wonderful.
Speaker 2: It will get just get better because when you are
Speaker 2: in that in this age that you will know yourself
Speaker 2: even better.
Speaker 2: Who you are, what kind of environment that you strive better?
Speaker 2: What kind of contribution you want to meet? Is it
Speaker 2: just financially? For me, it is not. Otherwise, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: left that cushy job. So for me, the next 10
Speaker 2: years is a golden 10 years that I will be fitter,
Speaker 2: I will be stronger, and I will be happier. So
Speaker 2: that's my definition of that golden 10 years. That's why
Speaker 2: I decided to take a step out.
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: love that.
Speaker 2: And I got to know you right lovely, you know,
Speaker 2: June and many other friends.
Speaker 1: I certainly appreciate that. I'm very excited for your next
Speaker 1: decade as well. How do you move beyond the financial goals?
Speaker 1: When people think about their jobs and they think about
Speaker 1: in the context of their retirement, often people are thinking,
Speaker 1: let me maximize my most economically productive years, and then
Speaker 1: they are indeed waiting for that big payout.
Speaker 1: I think we're all familiar with people who are in jobs,
Speaker 1: especially in their 50s. In certain companies, there is a
Speaker 1: certain age, which is 55 or something, as a partner
Speaker 1: where you receive the grant payout and people would really
Speaker 1: make sure that even no matter how hard the job
Speaker 1: is right now, that they will stay to that. How
Speaker 1: do you shift from
Speaker 1: From maximizing financial goals to a more holistic view of
Speaker 1: all the other goals that you want to achieve in life.
Speaker 2: So I think to begin with what kind of lifestyle
Speaker 2: you want to live for your retirement, for your family,
Speaker 2: that's number one.
Speaker 2: Number 2, have you done your homework before you call
Speaker 2: a day at the cushy job? I've done my homework,
Speaker 2: I've done my sum. Am I done yet? No, I'm
Speaker 2: not done yet. So I would say the next 10
Speaker 2: years could be something even maybe more interesting. Could be
Speaker 2: another career, right? So again, that provide, again, the assurance
Speaker 2: that it is time for me to really step up
Speaker 2: from that cushy 11 years. I think importantly, is that
Speaker 2: really for me, when I, you know, in my 30s
Speaker 2: or 40s, I always make sure that I have no.
Speaker 2: I clear my debts, I clear my housing, I clear
Speaker 2: my car, whatever I have is really just assets. No liabilities,
Speaker 2: all paid off. So that allows me to have that
Speaker 2: freedom to say bye bye boss, because that's not the
Speaker 2: kind of life, the work that I want to lead. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that gave me the assurance since I was young,
Speaker 2: I have that mindset,
Speaker 1: yeah. I think in the fire circles, the financially independent
Speaker 1: retire early circles that usually it's called FU money.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's the same concept where you basically have
Speaker 1: accumulated some where you know that you can be comfortable
Speaker 1: and you're not reliant on the job to pay for
Speaker 1: all the financial obligations that you have.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But having said that, I think, again, I want
Speaker 2: to go back to that ageism and also in the workplace, right?
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that we, we have this mindset of
Speaker 2: that and then we are done and we, we give
Speaker 2: up easily. No. So it's still being professional, it's still
Speaker 2: committing to our work. But we don't have that kind
Speaker 2: of burden.
Speaker 2: You know, no matter how upset we are, you know,
Speaker 2: how angry we are, we just stay with the job.
Speaker 2: I think that's not the life that in your 50s
Speaker 2: that you should have in my own definition. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: have more freedom of choosing what kind of work that
Speaker 2: you want to have a more meaningful contribution for your family,
Speaker 2: for
Speaker 1: the work. Would you have envisioned the step that you
Speaker 1: took when you were in your 20s or 30s?
Speaker 2: Good point. I think it's a progressive thing. When I
Speaker 2: was in the 20s, I was just busy, you know,
Speaker 2: finding the next career.
Speaker 2: Letter, what is next, what is next? Only when I
Speaker 2: have kids like in my 30s, a bit late, I
Speaker 2: start to plan when it's a time that it should
Speaker 2: be a time for me to really go to this
Speaker 2: point X and then I call it a day. So
Speaker 2: it's a progressive planning, but you know you're ready. And
Speaker 2: it's always a baseline, it's always being prudent, do your sum,
Speaker 2: do your saving, do your planning. There's a baseline. Yes,
Speaker 1: I love that. And I think it's also seasons of
Speaker 1: our life.
Speaker 1: Different priorities come into play in different parts of our lives,
Speaker 1: and I guess we wouldn't regret the last part of
Speaker 1: it in the 20s and 30s if you are like
Speaker 1: hustling and spending a lot of time on work, but
Speaker 1: that actually helped build a financial foundation, which is important
Speaker 1: for you to be able to enjoy the rest of
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 1: Life, pursuing other goals and the foundation of it is
Speaker 1: like you said, the savings and investments, ensuring that you're
Speaker 1: covered from an insurance perspective. And that is a good
Speaker 1: foundation to actually build the other parts.
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely, June. For me, I think it's exactly what
Speaker 2: you just mentioned, right? Be able to have that financial
Speaker 2: safe haven and also do that progressive planning. At the
Speaker 2: end of the day, you're well taken care of and
Speaker 2: you have that freedom of choice at this age to
Speaker 2: decide the kind of life you want.
Speaker 1: If you had like a parting phrase to people who
Speaker 1: are in their late 40s, 50s, who are thinking about
Speaker 1: a career change, even though it might seem scary, what
Speaker 1: would your advice be to
Speaker 1: them?
Speaker 2: Firstly, do your sum. Are you ready for it as
Speaker 2: a family unit, consult your family, get a consensus. Number
Speaker 2: 2 is also to be clear.
Speaker 2: What you want to strive in your next career. Are
Speaker 2: you ready for a change or are you ready for
Speaker 2: a step down? If you're ready for a step down,
Speaker 2: then it's a different equation, right? Maybe you're happy with
Speaker 2: just a 9 to 5 job, you know, something that
Speaker 2: you can easily navigate and have more time for yourself, family.
Speaker 2: So that could be one, or you still want to
Speaker 2: have a step up in a career. In that case,
Speaker 2: then I think it's also
Speaker 2: It's important to mention that keep the network active, social network,
Speaker 2: also the trends, what's going on in the market, keep
Speaker 2: that active to be able to come back to the
Speaker 2: market and to be even stronger in the market.
Speaker 1: That is actually very useful and solid advice. So thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Yvonne, for coming on. Really appreciate you sharing.
Speaker 2: And most welcome to join us again. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Many thanks as well to all of you out there
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This has been a fantastic conversation and
Speaker 1: we would definitely love to hear what you think about it.
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us,
Speaker 1: you can reach out to us through the email podcast
Speaker 1: at melisten.sg or at my Instagram at misfitfi. Aside from that,
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Speaker 1: an original production from Media Corp and recorded at Skate
Speaker 1: Live Studios, the pod, powered by Audio Technica and City Music.
Speaker 1: Episode production is done by Junes Yu with editing and
Speaker 1: support by Danny Cordy and Gareth Fernandez. Once again, I'm
Speaker 1: your host and BFF Junes Yu. Until the next time.