1 00:00:00,568 --> 00:00:02,690 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:05,260 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: It's the Money Talks podcast with me Andrea Heng. We're 3 00:00:08,689 --> 00:00:12,648 Speaker 1: changing things up today following our little series called This 4 00:00:12,659 --> 00:00:15,310 Speaker 1: or that you can check out those episodes on buying 5 00:00:15,319 --> 00:00:18,879 Speaker 1: a car, an H DB flat or picking stocks. It's 6 00:00:18,889 --> 00:00:23,389 Speaker 1: all available on Spotify or Apple podcasts from working through 7 00:00:23,399 --> 00:00:26,579 Speaker 1: the pros and cons of big money decisions. We now 8 00:00:26,590 --> 00:00:29,659 Speaker 1: look at the world of alternative investments. So if the 9 00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:32,549 Speaker 1: names Rolex and Philippe turn you off 10 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:37,500 Speaker 1: because you think they're just fancy wrist candy, you might 11 00:00:37,509 --> 00:00:41,970 Speaker 1: want to reconsider in recent years. They've increasingly gained a 12 00:00:41,979 --> 00:00:46,869 Speaker 1: reputation as an investment asset. They've even outperformed gold and 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,490 Speaker 1: real estate and sellers believe it's only going to get 14 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:54,580 Speaker 1: better much like stocks and property. Some of these coveted 15 00:00:54,590 --> 00:00:59,229 Speaker 1: time pieces are worth investing in, but only if you 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:00:59,970 Speaker 1: know which ones 17 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:03,779 Speaker 1: to choose. Our guests got their wrists wet in the 18 00:01:03,790 --> 00:01:07,099 Speaker 1: world of luxury watches in their youth trading high end 19 00:01:07,110 --> 00:01:11,429 Speaker 1: time pieces via an online marketplace. That online business is 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,789 Speaker 1: now a full fledged dealership called Watch Capital, which they 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,580 Speaker 1: bravely opened during the pandemic. So who better than the 22 00:01:19,589 --> 00:01:23,510 Speaker 1: men themselves to walk us through this investment phenomenon. They 23 00:01:23,519 --> 00:01:27,309 Speaker 1: are Jared Eng and Joseph Eng brothers and the directors 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:27,370 Speaker 1: of 25 00:01:27,459 --> 00:01:31,750 Speaker 1: Watch Capital. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. Right. Ok. 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,789 Speaker 1: So why the fascination with watches? I believe, Jared, it 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: was you that started it off as a hobby that 28 00:01:38,089 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 1: you were really passionate about? Or did you realize off 29 00:01:40,930 --> 00:01:43,620 Speaker 1: the bat that there was money, to be made? To 30 00:01:43,629 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: be honest, it started as a hobby. But at the 31 00:01:46,050 --> 00:01:48,389 Speaker 1: end of the day who doesn't want to make money? Right. So, 32 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,449 Speaker 1: basically what happened was my first watch was in the 33 00:01:50,459 --> 00:01:52,559 Speaker 1: I W C which I bought and I actually, I 34 00:01:52,569 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: really loved that watch, but it came up 35 00:01:54,940 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: of time when I got bored of it and I 36 00:01:56,370 --> 00:01:58,349 Speaker 1: wanted to sell it. I listed it a bit higher. 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,989 Speaker 1: Maybe I think 1000 $500 higher. And in the end 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,779 Speaker 1: I managed to get it sold. So I made a 39 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:05,459 Speaker 1: profit of 1000 $500. And at that point of time 40 00:02:05,470 --> 00:02:07,970 Speaker 1: when I was, I think 20 years old, if I'm 41 00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 1: not wrong, 1920 years old, it's a lot of money 42 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:12,690 Speaker 1: to me, a lot of money. I mean, it still 43 00:02:12,699 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of money to me, but I mean, 1000 44 00:02:14,169 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: $500 at that point of time when I was still 45 00:02:16,169 --> 00:02:17,869 Speaker 1: studying and all that, a lot of money. So I 46 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,829 Speaker 1: got interested in actually learning how to flip luxury watches. 47 00:02:20,839 --> 00:02:22,169 Speaker 1: There are two different things. One is 48 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 1: they watch flippers, one, they watch dealers, watch, dealers are 49 00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:27,820 Speaker 1: ones with actually a store, a big inventory and then 50 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:29,929 Speaker 1: they move the products every day. Watch flippers. Basically, you 51 00:02:29,940 --> 00:02:31,740 Speaker 1: buy a watch, you like at a cheaper price and 52 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:33,139 Speaker 1: then once you get bored of it, you just sell it, 53 00:02:33,399 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: maybe a one or two in your collection at any point. 54 00:02:35,410 --> 00:02:37,869 Speaker 1: Is it always only boredom that makes you want to 55 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,740 Speaker 1: flip the watch though? Not really, honestly, it was not 56 00:02:40,750 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: really boredom, but it's more of the money too. That 57 00:02:43,729 --> 00:02:46,369 Speaker 1: was your first watch investment. So, Joseph, how did you 58 00:02:46,380 --> 00:02:49,110 Speaker 1: get involved in this? My brother actually dragged me into 59 00:02:49,119 --> 00:02:49,490 Speaker 1: it 60 00:02:50,059 --> 00:02:54,259 Speaker 1: willingly or unwillingly willingly actually, because it actually started with 61 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: my dad. So he used to like collecting watches, buying 62 00:02:57,610 --> 00:03:00,250 Speaker 1: time pieces and whenever he gets bored of them after 63 00:03:00,258 --> 00:03:02,269 Speaker 1: like a few years, he set it up for a 64 00:03:02,279 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: better complication. Did you have like a first watch investment? Yes. Actually, 65 00:03:06,529 --> 00:03:09,110 Speaker 1: I found one. Panora. It was a very basic panora 66 00:03:09,119 --> 00:03:12,508 Speaker 1: three handed. It was a smoked tobacco doll. Yes. It 67 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,389 Speaker 1: already sounds exotic. It's actually quite basic, but it was 68 00:03:15,399 --> 00:03:18,830 Speaker 1: actually a very nice watch. Where is that watch now? Sold? 69 00:03:20,038 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: Ok. So the brothers do not have sentimental value, but 70 00:03:23,330 --> 00:03:26,190 Speaker 1: that's not always a bad thing because if your focus 71 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: is to flip it for money, then you know, why 72 00:03:29,008 --> 00:03:31,508 Speaker 1: be sentimental about it right there. Is a sentimental watch, 73 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: which we have tell us about it. That is actually 74 00:03:33,889 --> 00:03:35,740 Speaker 1: a watch that was given to us by our parents 75 00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:38,490 Speaker 1: after we graduated. So my mom got me a Rolex 76 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:40,919 Speaker 1: GMT from an ad I won't disclose it, but she 77 00:03:40,929 --> 00:03:43,470 Speaker 1: managed to get it at retail price. And my brother, 78 00:03:43,479 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: I think he got a Rolex. Right. Yeah. Oh, those 79 00:03:46,610 --> 00:03:47,910 Speaker 1: are nice. Yeah, it quite nice. 80 00:03:48,022 --> 00:03:50,753 Speaker 1: It's basic and very classic. So that is the only 81 00:03:50,763 --> 00:03:53,423 Speaker 1: two watches that we will never sell. Ok. So your 82 00:03:53,432 --> 00:03:56,022 Speaker 1: parents gave these watches to you, would it be safe 83 00:03:56,033 --> 00:03:58,753 Speaker 1: to say that your parents sort of influenced you in 84 00:03:58,763 --> 00:04:01,873 Speaker 1: a really big way about this love for watches and 85 00:04:01,882 --> 00:04:04,763 Speaker 1: looking out for complications and things like that. Yeah, definitely. 86 00:04:04,772 --> 00:04:06,703 Speaker 1: Especially my dad. I mean, he loved watches when he 87 00:04:06,712 --> 00:04:09,692 Speaker 1: was younger. He started with Rolexes or Omegas and everyone 88 00:04:09,703 --> 00:04:12,363 Speaker 1: kind of starts with Rolexes. Right? But the funniest thing 89 00:04:12,373 --> 00:04:14,632 Speaker 1: was that point of time. Nobody really knows about flipping 90 00:04:14,643 --> 00:04:16,173 Speaker 1: watches to make money. Right. So, I think that 91 00:04:16,325 --> 00:04:19,966 Speaker 1: carousel, there was nothing, there was no platform to actually 92 00:04:19,976 --> 00:04:22,705 Speaker 1: transact watches last time. So you only could go through dealers. 93 00:04:22,726 --> 00:04:25,085 Speaker 1: So basically what happened was that he never ever made 94 00:04:25,096 --> 00:04:28,385 Speaker 1: money on any watch. Only that one watch. I think 95 00:04:28,395 --> 00:04:32,465 Speaker 1: it was particularly 51678. That's the, so he actually bought 96 00:04:32,476 --> 00:04:35,276 Speaker 1: it for, I think 23,000 and I think a couple 97 00:04:35,286 --> 00:04:36,756 Speaker 1: of years later I told him, you know, the watch 98 00:04:36,765 --> 00:04:38,786 Speaker 1: market went up. Carousel was, I think, born like a 99 00:04:38,795 --> 00:04:40,555 Speaker 1: couple of years ago. So then that's where I started 100 00:04:40,565 --> 00:04:42,575 Speaker 1: training in Carousel. Right. So then I asked him, do 101 00:04:42,585 --> 00:04:44,414 Speaker 1: you want me to list your watch on Carousel? And he, 102 00:04:44,729 --> 00:04:47,157 Speaker 1: no, you're probably going to get robbed or something, you know, 103 00:04:47,169 --> 00:04:49,527 Speaker 1: I mean, he thought Carousel was not a good place 104 00:04:49,549 --> 00:04:51,889 Speaker 1: to sell. He thought there was a platform to sell 105 00:04:51,898 --> 00:04:57,378 Speaker 1: other things, maybe a lower quantum item. Like you think 106 00:04:57,408 --> 00:05:01,539 Speaker 1: you can sell a watch on Carousel. So that point 107 00:05:01,549 --> 00:05:03,778 Speaker 1: of time, I mean, after he saw his watch over Carousel, 108 00:05:03,789 --> 00:05:06,118 Speaker 1: he was like, oh, wow, ok. I think, did you 109 00:05:06,128 --> 00:05:08,368 Speaker 1: get him hooked on? Yeah, exactly. I kind of got 110 00:05:08,378 --> 00:05:10,578 Speaker 1: him hooked. So that's where the money started flowing and 111 00:05:10,588 --> 00:05:12,579 Speaker 1: the investment started flowing into our fund 112 00:05:12,752 --> 00:05:14,601 Speaker 1: and then we moved up from there. Ah, ok. So 113 00:05:14,611 --> 00:05:17,971 Speaker 1: that's where the story is where it got set up. Ok. 114 00:05:17,981 --> 00:05:20,661 Speaker 1: So that's when you realized there was sort of brisk 115 00:05:20,671 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: demand for trading luxury watches. And this was some years ago, 116 00:05:24,772 --> 00:05:28,712 Speaker 1: even before the pandemic, right? Did the pandemic accelerate that? Yeah, 117 00:05:28,721 --> 00:05:31,111 Speaker 1: I think the pandemic did accelerate that because people were 118 00:05:31,122 --> 00:05:33,761 Speaker 1: basically doing nothing with the money then and they were bored. 119 00:05:33,772 --> 00:05:36,242 Speaker 1: So people just started to find new hobbies and so 120 00:05:36,252 --> 00:05:38,402 Speaker 1: happened that, ok, at that point of time, I would 121 00:05:38,411 --> 00:05:40,661 Speaker 1: say before the whole watch market crashed, 122 00:05:40,994 --> 00:05:42,795 Speaker 1: you don't really lose much on a watch. Let's just 123 00:05:42,803 --> 00:05:44,644 Speaker 1: say you buy a watch that is worth like 100,000. 124 00:05:44,654 --> 00:05:48,964 Speaker 1: Usually you just lose maybe a couple of $1000. It 125 00:05:48,975 --> 00:05:52,904 Speaker 1: looks like the watch trading sector was as big a 126 00:05:52,915 --> 00:05:56,355 Speaker 1: victim of the whole pandemic surge and then now post 127 00:05:56,363 --> 00:05:58,954 Speaker 1: pandemic sort of dropped as well. So Joseph, can you 128 00:05:58,964 --> 00:06:02,844 Speaker 1: tell me about the demographic of the people that do 129 00:06:02,855 --> 00:06:06,605 Speaker 1: trade luxury watches? What exactly are they buying when they 130 00:06:06,613 --> 00:06:09,144 Speaker 1: shop around for a luxury watch? For an investment? 131 00:06:09,238 --> 00:06:11,517 Speaker 1: Usually I recommend my clients to get something that they 132 00:06:11,528 --> 00:06:13,808 Speaker 1: really like instead of looking at it as a way 133 00:06:13,817 --> 00:06:16,407 Speaker 1: to invest first at the end of the day, when 134 00:06:16,416 --> 00:06:18,277 Speaker 1: you buy something you like, it doesn't matter whether it 135 00:06:18,287 --> 00:06:20,488 Speaker 1: goes up down left or right. But when it comes 136 00:06:20,497 --> 00:06:23,058 Speaker 1: to investing, of course, you wouldn't want to lose money, right? 137 00:06:23,067 --> 00:06:25,467 Speaker 1: That's the main point of investing. I would recommend looking 138 00:06:25,476 --> 00:06:29,277 Speaker 1: for quantum below the 30,000 range because I think nowadays 139 00:06:29,287 --> 00:06:32,747 Speaker 1: to pay like 20,000 and above for a classic X 140 00:06:32,757 --> 00:06:35,197 Speaker 1: GMT or day two, I think it's very normal compared 141 00:06:35,208 --> 00:06:37,388 Speaker 1: to last time whereby the prices were, I think 142 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:40,700 Speaker 1: 10,000 those days are gone, you have to adapt to 143 00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:42,601 Speaker 1: the market. You can't look back and say, OK, I'll 144 00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:43,980 Speaker 1: wait for it to drop to this price and then 145 00:06:43,990 --> 00:06:46,180 Speaker 1: I'll buy it. So it's not really like stocks then 146 00:06:46,190 --> 00:06:50,270 Speaker 1: where you are looking at a particular model that you 147 00:06:50,281 --> 00:06:52,911 Speaker 1: think will serve the best purpose in terms of returns. 148 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,650 Speaker 1: Your advice is actually to get something that you are 149 00:06:55,661 --> 00:06:58,450 Speaker 1: particularly drawn to. It doesn't necessarily have to be the 150 00:06:58,460 --> 00:07:01,881 Speaker 1: most expensive or the most exotic or the most complicated. Yes, 151 00:07:02,101 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: because you are getting utility from it. Not as a 152 00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:05,631 Speaker 1: money point, but also satisfaction 153 00:07:05,723 --> 00:07:08,264 Speaker 1: wearing the watch. Do you wear the watches that you 154 00:07:08,273 --> 00:07:11,204 Speaker 1: trade in? Yes. Ok. So that's where I guess that 155 00:07:11,213 --> 00:07:15,563 Speaker 1: buffer of depreciation comes in. Then in recent years, these 156 00:07:15,574 --> 00:07:20,544 Speaker 1: watch investments, they have been seen to outperform stocks, real estate. 157 00:07:20,553 --> 00:07:24,574 Speaker 1: It's also seen to outperform safe havens. Your traditional safe 158 00:07:24,584 --> 00:07:26,623 Speaker 1: havens like gold. Would it be safe to say? Then 159 00:07:26,634 --> 00:07:29,324 Speaker 1: that watches can be seen as the new safe haven 160 00:07:29,334 --> 00:07:32,153 Speaker 1: of sorts. I would say yes to a certain extent, 161 00:07:32,164 --> 00:07:33,723 Speaker 1: but the watch market is also 162 00:07:33,967 --> 00:07:37,886 Speaker 1: v to economic conditions. So of course, if a recession hits, 163 00:07:37,897 --> 00:07:39,837 Speaker 1: let's say a few months time, the watch market will 164 00:07:39,846 --> 00:07:43,356 Speaker 1: definitely take a dip. But those watches that already depreciated 165 00:07:43,367 --> 00:07:46,606 Speaker 1: like let's say 2030% from retail. Let's talk about Hulu or, 166 00:07:47,046 --> 00:07:50,187 Speaker 1: or the prices won't drop so much. There won't be 167 00:07:50,196 --> 00:07:52,497 Speaker 1: like a 50% drop. Again, there will probably be like 168 00:07:52,506 --> 00:07:54,877 Speaker 1: a maximum of 5 to 10% drop or if not, 169 00:07:54,886 --> 00:07:56,997 Speaker 1: the price will actually stay because the watch has already 170 00:07:57,006 --> 00:08:00,256 Speaker 1: depreciated from the retail price that much. But for, let's 171 00:08:00,266 --> 00:08:02,046 Speaker 1: say Rolex A P Richard, 172 00:08:02,209 --> 00:08:06,100 Speaker 1: you know, the hyped pieces of the water that they 173 00:08:06,109 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: will definitely take, I would say 2030% hit. And when 174 00:08:09,329 --> 00:08:12,079 Speaker 1: those models get hit, is it advisable to hang on 175 00:08:12,089 --> 00:08:14,329 Speaker 1: to them until the market picks up again? It really 176 00:08:14,339 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: depends on what you can do with the money. So 177 00:08:16,049 --> 00:08:17,578 Speaker 1: let's say, if you can pull out the money and 178 00:08:17,589 --> 00:08:20,869 Speaker 1: reinvest it into, let's say, like wines or stocks or 179 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,369 Speaker 1: whatsoever and you are certain that you will definitely make 180 00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:25,859 Speaker 1: a return, then why not? But I think that time 181 00:08:25,869 --> 00:08:27,700 Speaker 1: will be a very good time to buy a lot. 182 00:08:27,709 --> 00:08:30,309 Speaker 1: Of course. Yes. Correct. If you have that 183 00:08:30,453 --> 00:08:33,833 Speaker 1: access, why not? Right. Ok. So it really does boil 184 00:08:33,843 --> 00:08:36,382 Speaker 1: down to the type of watch that you buy. So 185 00:08:36,393 --> 00:08:40,432 Speaker 1: the Richard meals versus the hu blows are completely different leaks. 186 00:08:40,442 --> 00:08:42,381 Speaker 1: I've written about high end time pieces before in the 187 00:08:42,393 --> 00:08:44,421 Speaker 1: past life. I get the appeal. Ok. I get the 188 00:08:44,432 --> 00:08:49,723 Speaker 1: appeal for collectors, hobbyist. So Jared, what should we look 189 00:08:49,732 --> 00:08:52,252 Speaker 1: out for in an investment piece? Then if you talk 190 00:08:52,263 --> 00:08:55,293 Speaker 1: about like watch investing purely, you have to buy models 191 00:08:55,302 --> 00:08:58,023 Speaker 1: that hold value very well. Rolex Day, Phil 192 00:08:58,695 --> 00:09:02,015 Speaker 1: Public, Philip A all the classic hype models. So even 193 00:09:02,026 --> 00:09:04,395 Speaker 1: they just now are holding values quite well depending on 194 00:09:04,405 --> 00:09:08,705 Speaker 1: the dow the perpetual also. Yeah. Big, big, big demand. Now, 195 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:10,515 Speaker 1: if you want to do watch investing, you have to 196 00:09:10,526 --> 00:09:12,455 Speaker 1: look at the market as a whole and see which 197 00:09:12,466 --> 00:09:14,505 Speaker 1: are the ones in demand and buy those in demand, 198 00:09:14,515 --> 00:09:16,085 Speaker 1: put it in your safe and hope that it's going 199 00:09:16,096 --> 00:09:17,976 Speaker 1: to go up in value in the next like 23 months. 200 00:09:17,986 --> 00:09:20,065 Speaker 1: But I think the whole watch market changed in a 201 00:09:20,075 --> 00:09:23,036 Speaker 1: way by last time, I think 12 years ago, people 202 00:09:23,046 --> 00:09:24,925 Speaker 1: are expecting to buy a watch and make like maybe 203 00:09:24,955 --> 00:09:26,755 Speaker 1: 1000 2000 in a week because the market was 204 00:09:26,939 --> 00:09:29,239 Speaker 1: going up so fast. So, but now this, now you're 205 00:09:29,249 --> 00:09:32,109 Speaker 1: just waiting for a long term appreciation. What investment? Yes, 206 00:09:32,119 --> 00:09:34,007 Speaker 1: it's a good investment, but it's a really long term 207 00:09:34,018 --> 00:09:36,148 Speaker 1: kind of thing. You don't expect to make like 10% 208 00:09:36,158 --> 00:09:39,638 Speaker 1: in a year. It's a long haul. Long commitment. Ok. Ok. 209 00:09:39,648 --> 00:09:43,128 Speaker 1: So you cannot just walk in to a Rolex boutique 210 00:09:43,138 --> 00:09:47,179 Speaker 1: to get yourself an Oyster Perpetual a Daytona. You can't 211 00:09:47,189 --> 00:09:49,768 Speaker 1: get a pet Philip a from the boutique and just 212 00:09:49,778 --> 00:09:52,848 Speaker 1: walk out of there and like, hey, yeah, I'm ready. 213 00:09:53,439 --> 00:09:55,088 Speaker 1: There's a long queue apparently 214 00:09:55,182 --> 00:09:58,401 Speaker 1: like literally a long queue in the system and it's 215 00:09:58,410 --> 00:10:01,132 Speaker 1: a global system. I understand. And there's also a very 216 00:10:01,142 --> 00:10:05,340 Speaker 1: strict verification process involved. So it's not as straightforward as 217 00:10:05,351 --> 00:10:07,822 Speaker 1: it seems if you want to invest in a watch, 218 00:10:07,921 --> 00:10:10,142 Speaker 1: it's a good thing for customers actually because if you 219 00:10:10,151 --> 00:10:13,341 Speaker 1: can get like a Rolex or readily available at the boutique, 220 00:10:13,351 --> 00:10:15,061 Speaker 1: there won't be any more demand for it. You can 221 00:10:15,072 --> 00:10:17,781 Speaker 1: compare it to like MS Birkin or Kelly Bag. You 222 00:10:17,791 --> 00:10:19,742 Speaker 1: can't get it. So there's demand for it and it 223 00:10:19,752 --> 00:10:21,882 Speaker 1: goes above retail. But the reason why is because you 224 00:10:21,892 --> 00:10:23,151 Speaker 1: can't get it at a boutique 225 00:10:23,424 --> 00:10:25,424 Speaker 1: and a bad thing because it's good because the value 226 00:10:25,434 --> 00:10:27,445 Speaker 1: goes up. But it's a bad thing because customers can't 227 00:10:27,455 --> 00:10:29,875 Speaker 1: get their hands on it at retail price. So those 228 00:10:29,885 --> 00:10:32,114 Speaker 1: that get it, just keep it. What are the other 229 00:10:32,125 --> 00:10:35,054 Speaker 1: ways that we can get our hands on a time 230 00:10:35,065 --> 00:10:37,015 Speaker 1: piece like that? Then you can go to great dealers 231 00:10:37,025 --> 00:10:40,863 Speaker 1: or the procedure is basically to buy less desirable pieces 232 00:10:40,875 --> 00:10:43,395 Speaker 1: that go below the market value and get a few 233 00:10:43,405 --> 00:10:45,554 Speaker 1: of them and hope that your ad will offer you 234 00:10:45,565 --> 00:10:48,775 Speaker 1: the rare time pieces. Ok? And then ad is authorized dealer, 235 00:10:48,934 --> 00:10:51,494 Speaker 1: authorized dealer, right? The boutique itself. 236 00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:57,020 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone. My name is Steven Xia and I'm host 237 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:59,409 Speaker 2: of C N A S weekly news podcast, Heart of 238 00:10:59,419 --> 00:11:01,700 Speaker 2: the Matter. Now, each week, my job is to ask 239 00:11:01,710 --> 00:11:04,500 Speaker 2: questions you have like, why is the C O E 240 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:08,750 Speaker 2: so high? Why aren't singles dating or what is going 241 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:09,978 Speaker 2: on with the red hot 242 00:11:10,239 --> 00:11:14,010 Speaker 2: market in Singapore? If you want the views behind the news, 243 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 2: then tune in each week as we get to the 244 00:11:16,330 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: heart of the matter. We are on the C N 245 00:11:18,409 --> 00:11:21,010 Speaker 2: A and me listen apps and wherever you get your 246 00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:24,450 Speaker 2: podcasts hit, follow or subscribe. So you don't miss an 247 00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:25,929 Speaker 2: episode when it drops. 248 00:11:30,289 --> 00:11:33,819 Speaker 1: There's this worry about counterfeit items, right? I know for 249 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:37,020 Speaker 1: sure that luxury watches are not exempt from this. I 250 00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:40,489 Speaker 1: have seen those fakes myself. So of course, there are 251 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:43,419 Speaker 1: watch dealerships such as yourself, watch capital, right? You have 252 00:11:43,429 --> 00:11:46,969 Speaker 1: this catalog of certain watches that are in demand. You 253 00:11:46,979 --> 00:11:49,099 Speaker 1: advise people on how to invest in them, what to 254 00:11:49,109 --> 00:11:51,260 Speaker 1: look out for that sort of stuff. And so in 255 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:55,348 Speaker 1: addressing counterfeits, how do you then help verify that what 256 00:11:55,359 --> 00:11:57,799 Speaker 1: we're buying is authentic. Let me tell you, counterfeit 257 00:11:58,655 --> 00:12:02,554 Speaker 1: next level crazy, especially for Rolex Marina, they can literally 258 00:12:02,635 --> 00:12:05,414 Speaker 1: recreate the entire movement and make it look very similar 259 00:12:05,424 --> 00:12:08,655 Speaker 1: to the original movement. I mean, I don't even trust myself. 260 00:12:08,664 --> 00:12:12,505 Speaker 1: I trust my watch technician. So those are the people 261 00:12:12,515 --> 00:12:15,275 Speaker 1: who have been servicing watchers for 10 2030 years. These 262 00:12:15,284 --> 00:12:18,265 Speaker 1: are technicians that came out of Rolex or particularly or Richard, 263 00:12:18,414 --> 00:12:20,375 Speaker 1: they set up their own service center. So these are 264 00:12:20,385 --> 00:12:22,265 Speaker 1: the people I think you can really trust and are 265 00:12:22,275 --> 00:12:25,825 Speaker 1: these technicians certified in any way by the brand or 266 00:12:25,835 --> 00:12:26,474 Speaker 1: how does that work 267 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:29,489 Speaker 1: brands we buy? They have worked for the brands before. 268 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,770 Speaker 1: So they will have gained the knowledge while working for 269 00:12:31,780 --> 00:12:33,619 Speaker 1: the brands. Like what's the real part? What's the real 270 00:12:33,630 --> 00:12:36,130 Speaker 1: movement kind of thing? Basically, these brands, they just give 271 00:12:36,140 --> 00:12:37,949 Speaker 1: you two options. The first option is that you can 272 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: service it outside. The second option is that to play 273 00:12:39,969 --> 00:12:42,359 Speaker 1: it safe. Go back to the authorized service center if 274 00:12:42,369 --> 00:12:44,500 Speaker 1: you're holding on to a really high end time piece. Like, 275 00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:47,109 Speaker 1: I mean, particularly Richard mail, this kind of pieces, you 276 00:12:47,119 --> 00:12:49,489 Speaker 1: should really go back to the authorized service center because 277 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: let's just say if they mess up one part, I mean, 278 00:12:51,849 --> 00:12:54,510 Speaker 1: outside it's gonna cost you a bomb. So, yeah, I mean, 279 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,289 Speaker 1: unless you buy insurance 280 00:12:55,385 --> 00:12:57,325 Speaker 1: which you can, but this kind of time pieces, they 281 00:12:57,335 --> 00:13:00,315 Speaker 1: only can be serviced by technicians inside if the movement 282 00:13:00,325 --> 00:13:02,575 Speaker 1: is really complicated. So if there's something like a sky 283 00:13:02,604 --> 00:13:04,614 Speaker 1: moon tour on that cost 7 to $8 million I 284 00:13:04,625 --> 00:13:07,424 Speaker 1: don't think you service it outside, right? So yeah, so 285 00:13:07,434 --> 00:13:09,094 Speaker 1: you have to go back to this, particularly the service 286 00:13:09,104 --> 00:13:11,645 Speaker 1: center and they can do everything. But watch service is 287 00:13:11,655 --> 00:13:13,994 Speaker 1: really costly. Four years ago, I put a Richard mill 288 00:13:14,005 --> 00:13:15,895 Speaker 1: inside the service center. It cost me like, I think 289 00:13:15,905 --> 00:13:17,965 Speaker 1: four grand now it's going to cost me at least, 290 00:13:17,974 --> 00:13:19,994 Speaker 1: I think 8 to 10 grand just to service the watch, 291 00:13:20,164 --> 00:13:21,255 Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. 292 00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:29,020 Speaker 1: Aware of the luxury handbag trade. They have special cameras 293 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:33,500 Speaker 1: and scanning systems and other processes that involve paperwork and 294 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:36,630 Speaker 1: certification and what not to verify its authenticity. Is there 295 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,739 Speaker 1: something like that in the watch world, in the watch world? 296 00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:40,570 Speaker 1: You can actually bring it to a watch technician and 297 00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:42,309 Speaker 1: they can check it out, but they won't really give 298 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,929 Speaker 1: you a piece of paper. I think the pre own site, right? 299 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:47,590 Speaker 1: They will offer you a certificate of authenticity. But is 300 00:13:47,599 --> 00:13:50,989 Speaker 1: their own authenticity card. So it's not really like from 301 00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:51,780 Speaker 1: MS itself. 302 00:13:52,114 --> 00:13:54,294 Speaker 1: And I think there were some disputes. So basically, I 303 00:13:54,304 --> 00:13:56,445 Speaker 1: think the only person you can trust is maybe the 304 00:13:56,455 --> 00:13:58,944 Speaker 1: watch technicians, which we actually recommend our clients, come of 305 00:13:58,955 --> 00:14:00,775 Speaker 1: our clients, come to us and tell us, you know, 306 00:14:00,784 --> 00:14:03,603 Speaker 1: I have this opportunity to purchase this watch at this price, 307 00:14:03,614 --> 00:14:05,304 Speaker 1: which is quite a good price, but I don't know 308 00:14:05,315 --> 00:14:07,244 Speaker 1: if it's authentic or not. So I always recommend them 309 00:14:07,255 --> 00:14:09,984 Speaker 1: to trusted watch technicians. So they will actually basically bring 310 00:14:09,994 --> 00:14:11,973 Speaker 1: it there and do their checks. When you acquire these 311 00:14:11,984 --> 00:14:16,934 Speaker 1: watches from sellers, do watches with say a card of authenticity, 312 00:14:16,945 --> 00:14:20,034 Speaker 1: command a higher price. Definitely. So if the watch comes 313 00:14:20,044 --> 00:14:20,385 Speaker 1: to guarantee, 314 00:14:20,590 --> 00:14:23,190 Speaker 1: it will command a price of maybe at least 15% 315 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: higher than one, which comes without the card. I recommend 316 00:14:25,849 --> 00:14:28,570 Speaker 1: all the watch investors to actually keep your watch with 317 00:14:28,580 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: the original guarantee card or the guarantee certificate because if not, 318 00:14:31,530 --> 00:14:33,270 Speaker 1: when you actually sell the watch to dealers like us, 319 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,119 Speaker 1: we actually value your watch way lesser than the market price. 320 00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:38,299 Speaker 1: That's very good advice. I suggest that just keep it 321 00:14:38,309 --> 00:14:40,169 Speaker 1: in the safe. Sometimes my clients are just like, oh, 322 00:14:40,179 --> 00:14:42,599 Speaker 1: who cares about the guarantee card outside? Trust me, you will, 323 00:14:42,919 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: you need it. Just wear a watch, keep the guarantee 324 00:14:45,409 --> 00:14:48,500 Speaker 1: card somewhere in your safe, where all your space, 325 00:14:48,844 --> 00:14:50,635 Speaker 1: it doesn't just put it in your safe lock. It 326 00:14:50,645 --> 00:14:52,664 Speaker 1: up and just don't think about it. And when it 327 00:14:52,674 --> 00:14:54,155 Speaker 1: comes to the time when you want to sell your watch, 328 00:14:54,164 --> 00:14:56,895 Speaker 1: take it out and sell it. Yeah, because 15% more 329 00:14:56,905 --> 00:14:59,344 Speaker 1: in value is big. Yeah, it's big when it comes 330 00:14:59,354 --> 00:15:03,445 Speaker 1: to high quantum prices. Bigger time piece, for example, Phil 331 00:15:03,575 --> 00:15:06,775 Speaker 1: Nail 5980, the one of the chronograph has been discontinued. 332 00:15:06,784 --> 00:15:09,494 Speaker 1: So the prices are, of course skyrocketed people at that 333 00:15:09,505 --> 00:15:11,715 Speaker 1: point of time bought it for, I think 40 50,000. 334 00:15:11,724 --> 00:15:14,215 Speaker 1: But now it's worth, I think 150. I think the 335 00:15:14,224 --> 00:15:16,804 Speaker 1: ones without the guarantee card dealers are only taking for 336 00:15:16,815 --> 00:15:17,114 Speaker 1: maybe 337 00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:19,229 Speaker 1: 80 to 90. But then the ones that comes with 338 00:15:19,239 --> 00:15:21,260 Speaker 1: the warranty cards, we are taking it for at least 339 00:15:21,270 --> 00:15:22,919 Speaker 1: 1 10, 1 20. So it's a difference of at 340 00:15:22,929 --> 00:15:25,900 Speaker 1: least $30,000 just on a piece of paper. Ok. So 341 00:15:25,909 --> 00:15:27,890 Speaker 1: you talked about insurance as well. Is that something that 342 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,859 Speaker 1: watch dealerships can assist with? Yes. So they can actually 343 00:15:30,869 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: purchase insurance on their watches if let's say they fall 344 00:15:33,530 --> 00:15:37,500 Speaker 1: down and the watch is damaged or so for some customers, 345 00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:40,349 Speaker 1: especially when the quantum of the watch is about 50,000 346 00:15:40,359 --> 00:15:43,460 Speaker 1: or 100,000, they will want to insure it or if not, 347 00:15:43,469 --> 00:15:45,460 Speaker 1: I would say just keep it well. 348 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:48,679 Speaker 1: What are the things that they need to consider when 349 00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:50,570 Speaker 1: you're investing in a watch? Usually when they don't want 350 00:15:50,580 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: to lose money on their watches? We recommend them not 351 00:15:52,770 --> 00:15:56,429 Speaker 1: to scratch it up. Bang it up. General safety rules. Correct. Yes, 352 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: because it affects the watch value. So, for example, for 353 00:15:59,210 --> 00:16:01,969 Speaker 1: us dealers, we rather take in a watch that is 354 00:16:01,979 --> 00:16:04,659 Speaker 1: a better condition but has been polished before rather than 355 00:16:04,669 --> 00:16:05,859 Speaker 1: a watch that has been beat up. 356 00:16:05,934 --> 00:16:08,385 Speaker 1: And after I polish it, it will be blunt. So 357 00:16:08,395 --> 00:16:10,505 Speaker 1: it won't sell as well as an unpolished. It's just 358 00:16:10,515 --> 00:16:14,025 Speaker 1: not pristine. So watch investing, right? It may not be 359 00:16:14,034 --> 00:16:16,385 Speaker 1: as straightforward as you think you have to service your watch. 360 00:16:16,395 --> 00:16:18,934 Speaker 1: Keep it in perfect time. Final words of advice for 361 00:16:18,945 --> 00:16:23,034 Speaker 1: those looking to get into the world of luxury watch investing. 362 00:16:23,044 --> 00:16:25,455 Speaker 1: Let us start with you, Joseph, get a role now 363 00:16:26,859 --> 00:16:29,489 Speaker 1: because I think it is still the test of time 364 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:33,530 Speaker 1: and especially when they introduce the newer 41 millimeter models 365 00:16:33,539 --> 00:16:36,809 Speaker 1: compared to the olden like the vintage aluminum basil, it 366 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:38,890 Speaker 1: looks much better and you know, you wear it and 367 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:41,119 Speaker 1: you get satisfaction out of it. And at the same time, 368 00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:43,039 Speaker 1: you get to make money 10 years, 20 years down 369 00:16:43,049 --> 00:16:46,599 Speaker 1: the road and at this market by now, because honestly, 370 00:16:46,609 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the prices came down a lot. It shows 371 00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:50,450 Speaker 1: that at that point of time, if people are buying 372 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:52,929 Speaker 1: it for the ridiculous prices, there is a potential again, 373 00:16:52,940 --> 00:16:53,469 Speaker 1: you just don't know. 374 00:16:53,711 --> 00:16:55,382 Speaker 1: So I think if you ask me honestly, I think 375 00:16:55,392 --> 00:16:57,861 Speaker 1: stick to these models to like maybe Rolex particularly and 376 00:16:58,132 --> 00:17:00,651 Speaker 1: p these models are the ones which will hold their 377 00:17:00,661 --> 00:17:03,021 Speaker 1: value really. Well, you will take a depreciation of course, 378 00:17:03,031 --> 00:17:05,141 Speaker 1: but it won't be as big of depreciation as a 379 00:17:05,151 --> 00:17:08,170 Speaker 1: hub or you know, some of the brands. So yeah, 380 00:17:08,182 --> 00:17:10,391 Speaker 1: I suggest you just take to these three brands. This 381 00:17:10,401 --> 00:17:14,140 Speaker 1: is common knowledge. I also feel that you never know 382 00:17:14,151 --> 00:17:17,182 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Last time when Richard introduced himself in, 383 00:17:17,192 --> 00:17:20,601 Speaker 1: I think 2001, the watchers were going below retail. $100,000 384 00:17:20,703 --> 00:17:23,034 Speaker 1: watch was going for, I think 30 40,000, it was 385 00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:25,513 Speaker 1: like a 70% hit. But now try getting one at 386 00:17:25,523 --> 00:17:28,083 Speaker 1: retail and it's impossible. You really never know what's going 387 00:17:28,093 --> 00:17:29,943 Speaker 1: to happen in the watch trade. So it's quite exciting 388 00:17:29,953 --> 00:17:34,693 Speaker 1: in that sense. So the global economic mood is quite downbeat. 389 00:17:34,703 --> 00:17:38,093 Speaker 1: Could this be the moment for you to consider alternative 390 00:17:38,104 --> 00:17:41,894 Speaker 1: instruments for a more secure buy-in as with any investment, 391 00:17:41,904 --> 00:17:45,213 Speaker 1: the homework behind it could be worth the time. Thanks 392 00:17:45,223 --> 00:17:47,734 Speaker 1: Jerry and Joseph for clocking in the details, 393 00:17:47,836 --> 00:17:51,776 Speaker 1: luxury time pieces as an alternative investment. Certainly a space 394 00:17:51,786 --> 00:17:54,965 Speaker 1: worth watching. But make sure you pick the right time 395 00:17:54,975 --> 00:17:57,984 Speaker 1: to make your move. And thank you to you, our listener. 396 00:17:57,994 --> 00:18:00,605 Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed this episode of Money Talks, there is 397 00:18:00,615 --> 00:18:03,725 Speaker 1: more content for you to enjoy. Simply follow us on 398 00:18:03,734 --> 00:18:06,566 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or Spotify and give us five stars or 399 00:18:06,576 --> 00:18:09,556 Speaker 1: leave a review while you're there. The team behind money 400 00:18:09,566 --> 00:18:14,656 Speaker 1: Talks is Jacqueline Chan, Joanne Chan Christina Roberts. I'm Andrea Heng.