WEBVTT - Why Do Men Feel the Need to Hide Their Emotions and vulnerability? 0:00:00.060 --> 0:00:03.420 Hello and welcome to another episode of Men. Explain, Is 0:00:03.420 --> 0:00:05.069 Sonia here with you? Thank you so much for all 0:00:05.070 --> 0:00:07.200 the support and the love so far has been so 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.579 much fun. I've been learning so much about the men's perspective. 0:00:20.250 --> 0:00:23.430 Today's guest is someone that I've never actually sat down 0:00:23.430 --> 0:00:26.400 to have a conversation like this with before. And also, 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.550 he is a sight for sore eyes. Please welcome Erin. 0:00:30.510 --> 0:00:32.760 Hi, everyone. My name's Aaron and I'm an actor. 0:00:33.180 --> 0:00:35.730 And you know what? Today's topic is interesting because we 0:00:35.729 --> 0:00:39.180 are about to address why men or most men, maybe 0:00:39.180 --> 0:00:42.390 not you and most feel the need to suppress their 0:00:42.390 --> 0:00:45.930 emotions and hide their emotions. And, you know, terms like, oh, 0:00:45.930 --> 0:00:48.870 grow a pair or like or men or you're not 0:00:48.870 --> 0:00:52.080 manly enough these terms that are thrown around quite a bit, right? 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.820 So we want to explore how toxic masculinity impacts our society. 0:00:56.850 --> 0:00:59.120 Is this going to be a stressful one for you? 0:00:59.130 --> 0:01:00.630 Are you coolly opening up 0:01:00.630 --> 0:01:03.060 chatting with me? Yeah, I think it's fine. I think 0:01:03.060 --> 0:01:06.210 it's something that that is very important to me. I mean, 0:01:06.209 --> 0:01:08.940 I was raised by women, so there was always a 0:01:08.940 --> 0:01:12.690 disparity in how I felt growing up. And then I 0:01:12.690 --> 0:01:15.179 go out into the world and have all these expectations 0:01:15.180 --> 0:01:18.180 and I'm like, Huh, okay? And even from within the 0:01:18.180 --> 0:01:20.190 family or and the ones who have raised me to 0:01:20.190 --> 0:01:21.240 be who I am. 0:01:21.270 --> 0:01:23.940 Yeah, yeah. And do you feel like generally you're the 0:01:23.940 --> 0:01:26.610 kind of person that is very in touch with your feelings? 0:01:26.670 --> 0:01:29.520 I think I've always been very in touch. My feelings, 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.100 I'm a very emotional person. Yeah. So growing up, I 0:01:32.100 --> 0:01:34.650 used to always cry easily at movies. And no, I 0:01:34.650 --> 0:01:35.940 still cry easily at movies. 0:01:36.610 --> 0:01:36.780 Thing. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:39.570 Apparently, it's not something that 0:01:40.950 --> 0:01:42.570 is socially acceptable. 0:01:42.700 --> 0:01:45.990 Yeah. Yeah. Those ones in through your. And so the 0:01:45.990 --> 0:01:50.410 whole cohort went to watch Bridge to Terabithia in GB 0:01:50.500 --> 0:01:55.440 action and that movie director Mila. Yeah, it wrecked me. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.620 I was crying and I can feel everyone accumulate. Like, 0:01:58.620 --> 0:01:58.980 what 0:01:58.980 --> 0:02:00.060 the heck is going on? 0:02:00.090 --> 0:02:03.540 Yeah, it was really sad. It turns out only one 0:02:03.540 --> 0:02:05.280 other guy in the entire cohort cried. So three of 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.210 us like, Yeah, man, I mean, I feel, you know, yeah, 0:02:08.220 --> 0:02:10.680 but everyone else made us feel like, like, Jesus Christ, 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.350 these guys are a bunch of wusses, you know? Yeah. 0:02:13.889 --> 0:02:17.100 So obviously in today's episode, we are also looking at 0:02:17.100 --> 0:02:20.760 how society has, you know, brought us up as such, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.030 you know, with certain assumptions and how maybe you as 0:02:24.030 --> 0:02:26.250 a man as well, you feel like when you were younger, 0:02:26.250 --> 0:02:30.150 perhaps you had to conform to certain ideas or like 0:02:30.150 --> 0:02:33.840 certain ways that people see men as right. So were 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.510 there some moments in your life where you feel like, OK, 0:02:36.510 --> 0:02:40.260 I can not show my feelings aside from the movies or, 0:02:40.470 --> 0:02:42.960 you know, I have to restrain myself or be more 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.390 manly or light goes on balls, you know, stuff like that. 0:02:46.290 --> 0:02:51.540 Yeah, definitely. I think especially growing up when it's not 0:02:51.540 --> 0:02:53.670 even to strangers or people that you're not very close to, 0:02:53.669 --> 0:02:56.700 sometimes it's to your own closest friends. You don't you 0:02:56.700 --> 0:03:00.510 want to fit in. I think back then, everyone kind 0:03:00.510 --> 0:03:02.000 of just one that once the gang up with someone, 0:03:02.010 --> 0:03:03.960 it's easy to gang up on to make themselves feel 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.510 better because everyone's just insecure. Growing up, we went to 0:03:06.510 --> 0:03:08.820 band together. In the easiest way to do that is to, 0:03:09.090 --> 0:03:10.800 you know, make someone else, you plug it in. 0:03:10.889 --> 0:03:13.070 It still happens when we're adults, but 0:03:13.290 --> 0:03:16.830 you know, it's yeah, it's really unhealthy and just not 0:03:17.580 --> 0:03:21.750 the not a good thing for anyone to do that. Yeah. So, OK. Recently, 0:03:21.750 --> 0:03:23.310 about two years ago, I learned how to drive. 0:03:23.430 --> 0:03:25.410 Oh, OK. Yeah, so that's how 0:03:25.530 --> 0:03:28.810 you guys first time, first time. All right. But I 0:03:29.130 --> 0:03:31.709 took it and I got so many people going like Otto, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.620 like you might. So, you know, you might seem 0:03:35.910 --> 0:03:37.380 like, why didn't you take manual? 0:03:37.650 --> 0:03:40.110 Exactly. It's like it's a man's thing to drive manual. 0:03:40.110 --> 0:03:41.640 I'm like, Have you seen Singapore? 0:03:41.650 --> 0:03:43.170 Like, there's not a single manual 0:03:43.170 --> 0:03:45.000 conference last time you saw manual kind and you want 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.350 to start stop in traffic. It's just not practical, right? 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:52.650 But this association with how many it is the great manual. 0:03:53.130 --> 0:03:55.890 I'm like, OK, oh, growing up when when everyone was 0:03:55.890 --> 0:03:58.590 trying to be cool and smaller? Yeah. So number one, 0:03:58.590 --> 0:04:01.210 is that smoking because you want to be different, you know, 0:04:01.210 --> 0:04:02.820 after school, you know, be different. You want to be 0:04:02.820 --> 0:04:05.370 a man, you grow up. So what does everyone start with? 0:04:05.430 --> 0:04:07.740 Rids because you know you want to be the Marlboro 0:04:07.770 --> 0:04:09.790 man, right? Cannot be menthol. 0:04:09.990 --> 0:04:10.650 Exactly. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:11.920 The fruit flavors. 0:04:12.050 --> 0:04:14.160 Yeah. And my throat couldn't handle it. I was like, 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.920 Oh my god, it's why does anyone want to smoke reds? 0:04:17.220 --> 0:04:21.360 I mean, you know, on TV, you see in Mad Men, Californication, 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.900 Sons of Anarchy, all these cool manly men smoking rates, right? 0:04:25.290 --> 0:04:27.540 So we all start there, and I was like, This 0:04:27.540 --> 0:04:29.760 is not smart. I can't handle this. So I switch 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.369 to something really like I started. I can't remember what 0:04:32.370 --> 0:04:34.529 it was like a long time ago, and I got 0:04:34.529 --> 0:04:37.860 so much shit fruit. Everyone's like, What? You taught me? 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:44.729 Why I understand the association of like something fruity, something 0:04:44.730 --> 0:04:48.060 nice flavor. It is never really manly enough. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.890 I can't. We mean, it's interesting that you raise up 0:04:49.890 --> 0:04:54.089 the issue about driving because in general, I feel like 0:04:54.089 --> 0:04:58.170 men are expected to drive well. You expect it to 0:04:58.170 --> 0:05:00.740 have a natural flair for it to be able to 0:05:00.750 --> 0:05:04.380 partly instantly. Do you feel that kind of pressure? 0:05:04.410 --> 0:05:07.260 Yes. I don't know where it comes from. I really don't. 0:05:07.290 --> 0:05:12.029 It's really just like the societal norms, local norms, right? Yeah, 0:05:12.180 --> 0:05:14.880 I think I'm a decent driver, but certainly not a star. 0:05:15.060 --> 0:05:17.630 It's not so. Naturally, you know, I look in all 0:05:17.630 --> 0:05:19.570 the different mirrors and I overthink it, and I'm like 0:05:19.580 --> 0:05:21.560 a big cobra, you know, when when you're very new 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.320 on the road and then you know, you always see 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.660 people like, Oh, no wonder, female driver, 0:05:27.500 --> 0:05:30.200 OK, I know that's a thing that pisses me off 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:32.630 to every time. Like, Oh, something bad happens. I almost 0:05:32.630 --> 0:05:34.070 be a girl driving like, Yeah, 0:05:34.550 --> 0:05:39.909 I actually have a friend who doesn't trust female drivers. Oh, really? Yeah. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.110 It's gotten to the point where if you booked a cab, 0:05:42.110 --> 0:05:43.520 what a stereotype. I know, 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:48.010 and we're just like, Well, you're fascinating. You're married. How 0:05:48.170 --> 0:05:50.810 you like, how does your wife feel about that? You know, like, 0:05:51.230 --> 0:05:54.200 he's a very nice person, but this is what he believes, 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.540 and it just goes to show that this is not 0:05:56.540 --> 0:05:59.180 something that needs to be, you know, out of spite 0:05:59.210 --> 0:06:03.820 or malice. It's just some people really were just nurture 0:06:03.830 --> 0:06:06.080 to feel that way. And it's unfortunate. 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:07.909 I think it's just so deep rooted. It's so funny 0:06:07.910 --> 0:06:09.980 that we're starting with this example because it is so 0:06:09.980 --> 0:06:12.979 true like it is one of the biggest examples in 0:06:12.980 --> 0:06:16.250 day-to-day life, right? You know, when when I started driving 0:06:16.250 --> 0:06:18.979 as well, like people or my friends and all would 0:06:18.980 --> 0:06:21.219 be like, you know, better not drive like, go alone 0:06:21.230 --> 0:06:24.020 or that kind of thing. Or, yeah, I mean, just 0:06:24.020 --> 0:06:26.900 as a passing remark, you know, they don't mean anything 0:06:27.140 --> 0:06:30.110 bad or they don't mean anything with malice, like you said. 0:06:30.410 --> 0:06:33.350 But it is such a deep rooted thing in society. 0:06:33.650 --> 0:06:36.500 And I think that every time something that happens on 0:06:36.500 --> 0:06:38.960 the road or whatever, and it's highlighted that it's a 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.980 girl or woman then or men that makes it extra bad. 0:06:42.980 --> 0:06:45.409 And all these negative things are highlighted in the media 0:06:45.410 --> 0:06:48.680 as well. Then you get all your keyboard warriors going 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:49.489 on and stuff like that. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.470 Well, if the headlines don't show it in the comments 0:06:51.510 --> 0:06:54.320 that they're definitely going to comment, like, what's the gender like? Oh, 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:54.950 no wonder. 0:06:54.980 --> 0:06:56.330 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:06:56.510 --> 0:06:58.880 And I don't know. And you see the thing is when, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.370 when people see it, you know, so casually in part 0:07:01.460 --> 0:07:03.980 in passing comments, right? But you kind of realize that 0:07:03.980 --> 0:07:06.440 it's that deep root that they don't think like, Oh, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.599 you know, it's it's a thing. Everyone knows this, but 0:07:08.690 --> 0:07:10.970 almost like casual sexism in a way. 0:07:11.780 --> 0:07:15.440 Why have you stopped to wonder why? Like, you think 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:15.890 that's weird? 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.750 I mean, I have a couple of girlfriends who are 0:07:17.750 --> 0:07:24.040 terrible addressing joke who don't tell you that, OK, yeah, 0:07:24.350 --> 0:07:26.970 it is cool. Yeah. Anyway, I'm bringing us back to 0:07:26.970 --> 0:07:29.630 the topic, as well as really interesting that we started 0:07:29.630 --> 0:07:31.490 with that, I think is a good time to also 0:07:31.490 --> 0:07:35.120 properly define what toxic masculinity is because all of these 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.120 examples are perfect. Example is really they do realize you 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.000 may not even realize it. Sometimes it just flies by 0:07:41.060 --> 0:07:43.190 the radar. We don't even realize that this is toxic 0:07:43.190 --> 0:07:48.020 behavior or toxic masculinity, suppressing emotions or hiding distress that 0:07:48.020 --> 0:07:51.650 could be one of aggression as an indication of power. 0:07:52.420 --> 0:07:56.330 All classic examples here, and sometimes we just don't even 0:07:56.330 --> 0:07:59.600 realize it. Yeah. In this industry, and you've been in 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.670 this industry for for a couple of years now, for 0:08:01.670 --> 0:08:05.060 some time now, right? Do you feel like at any 0:08:05.060 --> 0:08:08.210 point in time, you need it to conform to the 0:08:08.210 --> 0:08:11.900 idea of being a very masculine man? Or do you 0:08:11.900 --> 0:08:15.110 think that this industry has allowed you to be more 0:08:15.110 --> 0:08:18.650 in touch with, you know, your feelings and other sort 0:08:18.650 --> 0:08:20.060 of sights of you? 0:08:20.780 --> 0:08:24.800 Hmm. I don't think I had to conform in the industry. 0:08:25.220 --> 0:08:28.370 I think that in any way, anywhere you go, you know, 0:08:28.370 --> 0:08:30.440 you kind of want to be charming if the guy 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.250 is right. And, you know, sometimes you hear very cool, 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.610 casual like sexist remarks being passed around and just like, OK, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.800 I wouldn't call this guy out because you don't want 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.590 the energy on set. I understand. Yeah. So I think 0:08:42.590 --> 0:08:45.469 that's the fullest extent. I think as far as that goes, 0:08:45.650 --> 0:08:45.829 what 0:08:45.830 --> 0:08:49.179 about like previously in school or. Oh yeah. 0:08:49.210 --> 0:08:50.410 Yeah, yeah, we've always. 0:08:51.290 --> 0:08:55.030 Oh, OK. You know what? Yes. And give you some examples. Yeah. 0:08:56.059 --> 0:08:58.630 I mean, it's it's, you know, like, there's the crying thing. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.990 Everyone just wants to to be secure. And so naturally, 0:09:02.990 --> 0:09:05.990 like if you don't want to confront your yourself and 0:09:05.990 --> 0:09:07.760 who you really are, you're emotions and all that. The 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.069 easiest way to do it is to be the most 0:09:10.070 --> 0:09:13.400 superficially masculine men. Be sporty, you know, be good at 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.230 sports because you know, who's gonna look at the guy 0:09:15.230 --> 0:09:16.939 who's good at math and go like, Oh, that's a 0:09:16.940 --> 0:09:19.400 real man. Right? Because you know, this guy can be 0:09:20.090 --> 0:09:24.500 whatever man even is defined. Baylor Yeah. But the easiest 0:09:24.500 --> 0:09:26.660 way to to feel like one is to at least 0:09:26.690 --> 0:09:29.030 be more different than the woman, which is in your 0:09:29.030 --> 0:09:31.970 physical appearance. Right, right. So I was a very scrawny kid, 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.850 scrawny kid. Not really a hit of the girls. It was. Yeah, 0:09:36.860 --> 0:09:39.230 and that definitely takes a toll, right? Because you've got 0:09:39.230 --> 0:09:42.770 all these people who are more athletic, more masculine, more 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.850 deemed worthy or attractive or more manly. And so naturally, 0:09:46.850 --> 0:09:48.710 you just kind of feel like maybe I should be 0:09:48.710 --> 0:09:50.510 like that. Maybe it's this is what I need to 0:09:50.510 --> 0:09:53.750 do to gain the attention of the opposite sex or something. 0:09:54.020 --> 0:09:57.080 And I was just sharing with the team earlier on 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.300 that because you were asking me also about my take 0:09:59.300 --> 0:10:01.790 on it. Since, you know, obviously I've had a history 0:10:01.790 --> 0:10:04.520 of like ex-boyfriends and stuff like that, right? And I 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:09.340 realized that all, almost all of my ex-boyfriends are very different. Like, 0:10:09.380 --> 0:10:11.730 there's not one like all, like all of them are muscular. 0:10:11.750 --> 0:10:14.390 All of them are fit. That is all shapes and sizes. 0:10:14.390 --> 0:10:17.290 All types of. Men, you know, as well. And I 0:10:17.290 --> 0:10:20.199 thought to myself, like, did I or do I look 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:26.170 out for a masculine, fit looking guy? Not necessarily. I mean, 0:10:26.170 --> 0:10:29.199 you're absolutely right. I think what matters more is if 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.780 a guy is confident in your own skin, you're confident, 0:10:31.780 --> 0:10:34.569 you're healthy. You know what you're doing. It doesn't bother 0:10:34.570 --> 0:10:36.610 you if you're standing next to like an ultra buff 0:10:36.610 --> 0:10:39.040 guy or something. I don't know. Does that? Is that 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:40.540 a guy thing? Like sometimes when you stand next to 0:10:40.540 --> 0:10:43.959 someone that's so buff and fit, you're like, Ooh, I 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.410 feel a little not so strong or something. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.560 From what I've experienced and learned, a lot of guys 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.900 to go to the gym, the ones who really look 0:10:52.900 --> 0:10:55.790 after their bodies and they want to sculpt this muscle 0:10:55.790 --> 0:10:58.270 in their muscle and watch everything to eat. They're actually 0:10:58.270 --> 0:10:59.349 one of the most insecure. 0:10:59.860 --> 0:11:00.490 I think so, too. 0:11:00.500 --> 0:11:03.520 Yeah. Yeah. I'm not. You mean, maybe they started going 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.470 to the gym because of that. But I think ultimately, 0:11:05.470 --> 0:11:08.310 if you're putting in so much effort to look this way, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.480 and then along comes another guy who you deem looks 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:10.929 better than you. 0:11:10.929 --> 0:11:13.830 Usually it takes a jab at your confidence again, 0:11:13.870 --> 0:11:16.089 you know, because you want to be the best. But 0:11:16.090 --> 0:11:18.929 then you're like, Oh shit, this is other guy. But ultimately, yeah, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.770 you can also, I mean, there are a lot of 0:11:20.770 --> 0:11:22.959 jacked guys who are very confident, but I don't think 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.230 that confidence lies solely in your physical appearance. I think 0:11:26.230 --> 0:11:28.720 it lies in your own confidence that may come from 0:11:28.990 --> 0:11:29.890 working in your body. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.380 Interesting. You say that because, you know, as much as 0:11:32.380 --> 0:11:35.380 girls always think like, Oh, we are such insecure creatures and, 0:11:35.380 --> 0:11:40.300 you know, sometimes within our girlfriends, we don't necessarily share 0:11:40.300 --> 0:11:42.069 it all the time with our male friends or like 0:11:42.070 --> 0:11:45.580 our partners or whatever. But amongst the girls, OK, I'm 0:11:45.580 --> 0:11:47.280 sure that if you are watching right now, you might agree. 0:11:47.290 --> 0:11:51.460 We're always like, Oh, my skin sucks or like, Oh, 0:11:51.460 --> 0:11:54.670 I need to like lose for CG or like, oh, like, 0:11:54.970 --> 0:11:58.000 it's real. Oh my god, my Ebanks. You know your 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.460 life because you know it's true, right? Yeah. So we 0:12:00.490 --> 0:12:03.819 have about this amongst ourselves. And then we also rely 0:12:03.820 --> 0:12:06.760 on each other to uplift each other to be like, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.140 No girl, you are so hot, you're the prettiest. OK, 0:12:10.140 --> 0:12:12.180 I know I'm going on right now, but this is true. 0:12:12.190 --> 0:12:13.650 This is what we do back. 0:12:13.660 --> 0:12:16.240 And I've heard stories about like the female bathroom in 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.510 clubs and apparently it's like utopia and everyone gets along, 0:12:19.510 --> 0:12:21.130 but the male bathroom is not like that. 0:12:21.700 --> 0:12:23.950 So what goes on in the male bathroom? Just curious 0:12:23.950 --> 0:12:26.170 because we can spend like 30 minutes in there talking 0:12:26.170 --> 0:12:28.839 to the street, talking to a total stranger, sharing makeup, 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.179 you know, like you seeing like in a bar that 0:12:31.330 --> 0:12:36.850 was so good. Sure. This is sherry glass pre-pandemic. 0:12:37.179 --> 0:12:39.390 Even pre-pandemic, you 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.780 know, sometimes if a sister needs help, like, I'll share 0:12:42.790 --> 0:12:43.670 my lip gloss, then do 0:12:43.670 --> 0:12:45.160 you like chop off the top? 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:46.840 No, you just think maybe you just want her head 0:12:46.850 --> 0:12:47.739 love and she like, 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:49.660 Oh, OK, OK, OK, OK, it's not too 0:12:49.660 --> 0:12:51.290 bad, but when everyone's drunk, who knows? 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.470 That's a very good point. Yeah, the the male bathroom 0:12:54.470 --> 0:12:55.090 was not like that. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:56.710 It's the silence of those 0:12:57.730 --> 0:13:01.150 grunts, right? It's again, number one. I don't know what 0:13:01.150 --> 0:13:04.120 the female bathroom looks like, but I would. I think 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:05.800 it's a lot cleaner because people in pee in the 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:06.640 floors and stuff. 0:13:06.790 --> 0:13:12.520 Well, honey, you will be surprised. Wow. The bathroom in clubs. Oh, 0:13:12.590 --> 0:13:14.000 not the best place to be. 0:13:14.020 --> 0:13:15.160 Yeah, I don't miss that. 0:13:15.620 --> 0:13:16.839 Yeah, that's the one part. I don't. 0:13:16.900 --> 0:13:21.400 Yeah, I think in clubs for men, there's a higher 0:13:21.429 --> 0:13:25.620 chance for them to be very sussing out the competition. Yeah, 0:13:25.630 --> 0:13:27.970 they're very defensive. There's a lot of posturing. There's a 0:13:27.970 --> 0:13:30.670 lot of like, you know, like because everyone wants to 0:13:30.670 --> 0:13:32.740 feel good about themselves, right? Because they're out on the 0:13:32.740 --> 0:13:35.050 prowl or something. Yeah, we kind of want to feel 0:13:35.050 --> 0:13:37.480 better than the person next to us. So even in 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.760 the in the bathrooms, there's a lot of like bravado, 0:13:39.850 --> 0:13:40.270 you know, 0:13:40.270 --> 0:13:44.250 and and that can be toxic to toxic masculinity. Exactly. 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.840 And you know, when you don't feel that way, but 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.300 everyone's doing that, you kind of feel like, Okay, I 0:13:49.300 --> 0:13:51.910 got to be a bit defensive here. Like, I always 0:13:51.910 --> 0:13:53.620 get paranoid. Like, what if somebody wants to pick a fight? 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.920 So on that note, has you know your upbringing and 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.800 your surroundings in your family sort of changed the way 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.950 that you view masculinity as well as you grew up? 0:14:03.220 --> 0:14:06.939 I think so. There was never any clear and conscious like, 0:14:06.940 --> 0:14:08.949 this is what it is to be a man or something. 0:14:09.220 --> 0:14:11.330 But maybe that's why I'm a bit more emotional, bit 0:14:11.350 --> 0:14:14.350 more in tune with my emotions. Yeah, my dad is 0:14:14.350 --> 0:14:17.800 a very mans man. So what happened was I would 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.820 feel like the way I feel. I'm very emotional and very. 0:14:21.370 --> 0:14:22.330 He's called me a snag, 0:14:22.930 --> 0:14:23.890 a snag 0:14:23.930 --> 0:14:26.190 bag, which I was like, Yes, I'm a snake. So 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.890 snake is sensitive. New Age guy. Oh yeah. You and 0:14:29.890 --> 0:14:29.980 your 0:14:29.980 --> 0:14:33.460 acronyms, man like, OK, since the New Age, guy. Yeah, 0:14:33.460 --> 0:14:36.340 all I know is a snack snack. Yeah, OK, 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.730 that's 21st century. So giving me my age? 0:14:39.850 --> 0:14:41.380 Yes, exactly. 0:14:42.010 --> 0:14:45.100 So going on into the world, I would already feel 0:14:45.100 --> 0:14:47.470 this way. Maybe it's because of my upbringing. Yeah. And 0:14:47.470 --> 0:14:50.290 then I I meet other guys who are, you know, 0:14:50.290 --> 0:14:52.660 everyone's trying to be different from that posture should be 0:14:52.660 --> 0:14:55.510 more manly, especially in secondary school when you need to 0:14:55.510 --> 0:14:57.880 do something to stand down, right, because everyone's wear a uniform, 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.910 same haircut kind of stuff. It was very jarring. So didn't. 0:15:01.060 --> 0:15:03.640 I said looking at TV shows are my, Oh look, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.590 this guy is pretty cool. Maybe I should. Maybe I 0:15:05.590 --> 0:15:07.810 should try to be like him. Maybe I should try 0:15:07.810 --> 0:15:09.070 to be like that. Maybe I should try to be 0:15:09.070 --> 0:15:13.540 like this, like that to fulfill these roles and stereotypes 0:15:13.750 --> 0:15:15.130 of what it is to be a man to feel 0:15:15.130 --> 0:15:18.320 about the. About myself. Yeah. But in reality, deep down, 0:15:18.770 --> 0:15:22.970 I was always very sensitive, I never really felt very manly. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.490 You see this in pop culture, you see this out 0:15:25.490 --> 0:15:27.530 there in the world, especially when you're young and trying 0:15:27.530 --> 0:15:29.989 to find your place and find who you are. I 0:15:29.990 --> 0:15:32.990 think over time, I just got very comfortable with, you 0:15:32.990 --> 0:15:35.390 know what? I'm not happy trying to posture and trying 0:15:35.390 --> 0:15:37.640 to be something I'm not. Yeah, you can even even 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.540 like the first time I saw that drinking. Right? OK. 0:15:40.580 --> 0:15:43.400 I enjoy beer. I enjoy whiskey. But how are 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.750 you enjoying prosecco? Oh, no, no. OK, you well, use 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:47.390 this one. 0:15:47.390 --> 0:15:49.610 But yeah, but it used to be a norm to 0:15:49.610 --> 0:15:53.650 go like, Oh, that's a girlie drink. Yes. Yeah. How 0:15:54.050 --> 0:15:56.600 do you like your whisky at the Bensebaini? Like, you know, 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.450 how many do you, how much hair you have? And 0:15:58.460 --> 0:16:00.380 that's it's like, it's ridiculous. 0:16:00.730 --> 0:16:03.350 Can you just say how much hair you ever do? 0:16:03.860 --> 0:16:05.960 We are really meant to feel like that. We really 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:07.850 need to feel like, Oh, I need to fit in 0:16:07.850 --> 0:16:10.370 and conform. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally I can. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:12.560 You know, he's the little white lie. 0:16:12.660 --> 0:16:15.260 Yeah, he clearly still has no idea. 0:16:15.830 --> 0:16:17.390 I mean, I know what was he like, but I'm 0:16:17.390 --> 0:16:21.710 not going to stop feeling the need to pretend. Yes. Like, 0:16:21.710 --> 0:16:24.470 I'm this passionate because this is what makes me a man, 0:16:24.470 --> 0:16:27.200 and that's my identity, because that's not sustainable. It's just 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.050 very afterwards. Like, Oh my gosh, you have to live 0:16:30.050 --> 0:16:33.350 wearing a mask, you know, I got piercings and then 0:16:33.650 --> 0:16:37.720 I used to have what you call your rings, right? OK. 0:16:38.150 --> 0:16:39.350 Whoops. Is it? Yeah, OK. 0:16:39.370 --> 0:16:41.570 I mean, small, small black one. Yeah. But then I 0:16:41.570 --> 0:16:44.750 would still get, you know, comments on really rings. Yeah. 0:16:44.900 --> 0:16:48.350 I'm like, OK, fine studs. Final before studs. I did 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.340 all these little things. Like the other day, a family 0:16:52.430 --> 0:16:54.830 member pointed out that I was wearing a lot of 0:16:54.830 --> 0:16:58.430 accessories and accessories, so I was wearing light bracelet and stuff. 0:16:58.970 --> 0:17:01.430 So I think it is a generational thing. Yes, right? 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.550 So she was like, You wearing so many accessories? Don't 0:17:04.550 --> 0:17:05.359 you feel like a girl? 0:17:06.109 --> 0:17:08.450 Oh yeah. What did you say to that? 0:17:08.540 --> 0:17:12.889 I was I was shocked, so I thought, No, should I? 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.670 You know, it's these two. I think there is change 0:17:17.690 --> 0:17:20.240 with the generations. I think the younger generation is very 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.580 aware of these things and very vocal about it. So 0:17:22.580 --> 0:17:25.639 that's very good. We're in the right direction. The resistance, 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.420 I feel, will always come from the older generations who 0:17:29.450 --> 0:17:32.480 pass on this knowledge to the new generation. So in 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.850 every generation, you still have those people subscribing to the, 0:17:35.270 --> 0:17:37.530 you know, the old norms because, oh, my dad said, 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.740 that's a good thing to do, so I can never 0:17:39.740 --> 0:17:41.209 do that. I'm looking to a life coach now, and 0:17:41.210 --> 0:17:43.680 he's been giving me very good advice. Oh, that's great. Yeah. 0:17:43.700 --> 0:17:46.790 So you're saying that when we put labels on things, 0:17:46.910 --> 0:17:49.520 we don't want to put in the work to understand 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.919 these things, you know, so like you can always say, like, Oh, 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.500 this guy's just a jackass. But if he did the work, 0:17:54.710 --> 0:17:56.210 we actually sat down with him and said, Hey, man, 0:17:56.210 --> 0:17:58.700 what's really going on here? Yeah, it's not normal. Why 0:17:58.700 --> 0:18:00.439 do you want to spend money? Go to a club, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:01.520 spend money in the clubs 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:02.540 that have a horrible time? 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.030 Yeah, where you might get your ass kicked. Like, it 0:18:05.030 --> 0:18:07.429 doesn't make sense what's really going on? And you know, 0:18:07.430 --> 0:18:09.290 I guess for the most part, people don't, especially at 0:18:09.290 --> 0:18:12.649 the age, sit down and figure themselves out, of course, 0:18:12.650 --> 0:18:14.690 you know, so then they just project these are just 0:18:14.690 --> 0:18:15.410 projections 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.399 of your own unhappiness with yourself, your dissatisfaction or something. 0:18:19.580 --> 0:18:22.940 Has it ever affected your relationships? Like, has it ever 0:18:22.940 --> 0:18:25.879 been a topic where you know it was brought up 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.550 in an argument or I don't know the topic of 0:18:28.550 --> 0:18:30.590 masculinity has ever come up before? 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.780 No, I've only ever had one ex-girlfriend. So no, I 0:18:35.780 --> 0:18:36.290 don't think. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.510 Oh, great. Even when you guys are angry, like, 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:40.159 why would that come up? 0:18:40.780 --> 0:18:43.940 Because I'm a man. Yeah, yeah. And I guess in 0:18:43.940 --> 0:18:46.550 some fights I hear, you know, from my friends, I 0:18:46.550 --> 0:18:48.920 personally haven't really experienced too much of it as well. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.830 But some of my friends who share their concerns when 0:18:51.830 --> 0:18:54.950 it comes to relationships are like, Oh, you know, I 0:18:54.950 --> 0:18:58.189 need my boyfriend, for example, to be more of a man. Like, 0:18:58.190 --> 0:19:00.410 I need him to take charge. I need him to, 0:19:00.830 --> 0:19:04.070 you know, come pick me up or take control or, 0:19:04.070 --> 0:19:06.770 you know, I need him to support me more financially 0:19:06.770 --> 0:19:08.680 in the future. I need to know that I'm secure 0:19:08.690 --> 0:19:10.730 stuff like that. And I know as a friend as 0:19:10.730 --> 0:19:15.050 well who is very frustrated that her boyfriend doesn't want 0:19:15.050 --> 0:19:18.980 a car. Oh, I'm not sure if this would spark 0:19:18.980 --> 0:19:22.930 off any sort of, you know, memories or, you know, 0:19:22.940 --> 0:19:26.240 experiences that you had before. Do you feel pressure to 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.580 be like, Oh, you know, when in car, I need 0:19:28.580 --> 0:19:29.780 to own a car, I need to buy the house, 0:19:29.780 --> 0:19:30.080 I need to. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:31.609 Do you live in Singapore then? 0:19:31.710 --> 0:19:33.260 Yeah, we're good. Yeah. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.080 As far as owning a car goes, I've never wanted 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:37.850 to own a car because of the cause. That's just 0:19:37.850 --> 0:19:40.400 not practical. I get done on the way to work 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.770 in the cab, which I can't do if I'm driving. Yeah. 0:19:42.830 --> 0:19:47.149 So no, but obviously that there's this grand fantasy of 0:19:47.150 --> 0:19:48.990 being picked up on a date or sent home off 0:19:49.010 --> 0:19:52.909 that date. Exactly. So because I only got my license 0:19:52.910 --> 0:19:56.450 like two years ago, I didn't do that many times. 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.340 It's not really anything to do with being a man. 0:19:58.369 --> 0:20:01.520 It's just like the gesture. The gesture is one thing, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.939 and it's just like this classic date field where you 0:20:04.940 --> 0:20:06.950 actually get picked up and sent home and all that. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.530 But I think the concept of dating in this day 0:20:10.530 --> 0:20:15.260 and age has changed a lot or it is constantly changing. Exactly. 0:20:15.420 --> 0:20:17.159 So I mean, on that note, also, I guess I 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.210 will share a story or one of my the one 0:20:21.210 --> 0:20:23.170 of the first guys that I ever did it. OK? 0:20:23.190 --> 0:20:26.670 This was back then when I was doing poorly and 0:20:27.300 --> 0:20:29.280 he was slightly older me, so he had to go 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.109 to N.S. at that point in time. I don't know 0:20:31.109 --> 0:20:33.239 whether this will take you back to some memories you 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:33.449 know in. 0:20:34.030 --> 0:20:34.830 And that's a 0:20:35.070 --> 0:20:36.359 that's that's tough, is it? 0:20:36.510 --> 0:20:38.760 You know, it's way of toxic masculinity, lives 0:20:38.940 --> 0:20:42.120 and thrives, survives there and you can if you share 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.090 a few samples with me after. But I few, like 0:20:45.090 --> 0:20:47.100 during that time, I was still very young, didn't have 0:20:47.100 --> 0:20:50.190 much experience in relationships. Heck, I didn't even know how 0:20:50.190 --> 0:20:52.510 to date or whatever like I was from a girls school, 0:20:52.510 --> 0:20:54.629 like 10 years of my life didn't know how to dress. 0:20:54.630 --> 0:20:56.669 You know how to put on makeup, whatever. Heck, I 0:20:56.670 --> 0:20:59.700 don't know anything. I went to poly like totally blank. 0:20:59.700 --> 0:21:01.920 Slate had no idea what was going on. So when 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.869 the guy that I was dating back then had to 0:21:03.869 --> 0:21:06.780 go into an S., I was thinking, Oh, how hard 0:21:06.780 --> 0:21:08.970 could it be? I can still see him on the weekends, 0:21:08.970 --> 0:21:10.410 you know, is going to be all good and all that. 0:21:10.770 --> 0:21:12.930 But what I did not realize was that he was 0:21:12.930 --> 0:21:16.290 going through a lot during this period, especially what is 0:21:16.290 --> 0:21:19.590 it called the. Yeah, where they have to stay in 0:21:19.590 --> 0:21:21.720 and then you get you only get a very limited 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.400 amount of time with them. I think he was going 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.580 through a lot internally and struggling with, you know, I guess, 0:21:26.609 --> 0:21:30.119 being there, being stuck there, the activities and just, you know, 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.270 it took a toll on his psychological health, too. And 0:21:33.270 --> 0:21:36.179 he never really wanted to open up to me about 0:21:36.180 --> 0:21:38.400 it because he's always like, Yeah, I got it, you know, 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.909 is cool, is fine and you always want to plan, 0:21:41.910 --> 0:21:43.889 you know, dates and stuff like that on the weekend. 0:21:44.100 --> 0:21:46.620 And I appreciated that, but I felt like I didn't 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.470 ask him about his feelings enough, and he didn't also 0:21:49.470 --> 0:21:51.719 want to open up to me enough about what he 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.520 was going through. And eventually it imploded because he he 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.200 he spiraled down into a bit of depression as well, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.840 and he acted out in some ways and in families 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.379 had to get involved. Oh, and I really feel bad because, 0:22:04.380 --> 0:22:06.359 you know, I mean, if you're watching us now like, 0:22:06.369 --> 0:22:08.400 you know, not going to name names, but I felt 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.970 bad because I think as a partner, I wasn't also 0:22:11.970 --> 0:22:16.560 having these conversations with him or having enough of these conversations. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.020 And perhaps we were younger as well, didn't know how 0:22:19.020 --> 0:22:22.170 to deal with certain things or address and things. But, 0:22:22.170 --> 0:22:23.909 you know, I felt like I could have been a 0:22:23.910 --> 0:22:28.950 better girlfriend for him to lean on emotionally. It's just 0:22:28.950 --> 0:22:30.869 a matter of whether you want to open up to 0:22:30.869 --> 0:22:32.250 a trusted person. Right? 0:22:32.540 --> 0:22:34.919 And I think ultimately, we always we just we don't 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.770 know how the exit is, so we can always just 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.590 think to ourselves, like, maybe I could have done this, 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.000 maybe I could have done that. But it's just, you know, 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.129 it's it's could I would have should have left. Yeah. 0:22:44.310 --> 0:22:47.550 I think guys going through Amy as well because they 0:22:47.550 --> 0:22:49.440 have all the other guy friends going through. I mean, 0:22:49.619 --> 0:22:52.140 the number one, don't want to be this caricature way. 0:22:52.410 --> 0:22:54.449 All they can talk about is, I mean, to their partners, 0:22:54.450 --> 0:22:56.939 I'd say, because he probably didn't want to scare you away. 0:22:57.060 --> 0:22:57.679 Exactly. 0:22:57.700 --> 0:22:59.609 Yeah, I mean, you get all these guys who are like, 0:22:59.609 --> 0:23:02.040 just like, Oh yeah, it is. And men love to 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:07.050 talk in acronyms because everything in the SDF is an acronym. Okay? 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.690 And indeed, at the same time, explaining and trying to 0:23:09.869 --> 0:23:12.420 explain why it's so difficult. And they would rather just 0:23:12.420 --> 0:23:14.939 talk to people who've been there. And because they do 0:23:14.940 --> 0:23:17.220 have such little time review, they would rather just focus 0:23:17.220 --> 0:23:20.100 on the two of you. But unfortunately, yeah, it is 0:23:20.100 --> 0:23:23.850 important to to share what is bothering you. And I think, 0:23:23.850 --> 0:23:26.520 you know, men generally do struggle with that. 0:23:26.670 --> 0:23:29.939 Yeah, yeah. I think like it's a great perception that 0:23:29.940 --> 0:23:32.310 you gave me because I never thought of it that way, honestly. 0:23:32.310 --> 0:23:36.330 And ever since then, I've not dated anyone else in 0:23:36.330 --> 0:23:40.070 Ennis during doing that phase of life. It's a rough time. Yeah, 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:41.880 it's a rough time. How was your how was your time? 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.780 There was a lot of toxic masculinity. You mentioned there 0:23:45.869 --> 0:23:49.440 are examples of toxic masculinity there. I think, you know, 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.160 the more the more Garang you are, the more the 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:53.580 more 0:23:53.580 --> 0:23:55.530 the more manly you come across. 0:23:56.100 --> 0:23:59.130 Yeah, but some people are very capable. Not physically. Yeah, yeah. 0:23:59.220 --> 0:24:02.400 Of course that's the thing. So I feel like manliness 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.739 or what is perceived as manliness could come in a 0:24:04.740 --> 0:24:09.350 variety of ways is not just like muscles and, you know, 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:12.359 brute force or whatever could be intellect. Yeah, it could 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:14.980 be personality. It could be so many other things, right? 0:24:15.300 --> 0:24:18.330 And this can make people great soldiers as well. Maybe 0:24:18.330 --> 0:24:21.210 they're not the most obviously physically fit, but they have 0:24:21.210 --> 0:24:23.170 other qualities that made them a good soldier. But that 0:24:23.220 --> 0:24:25.790 is an easily recognized at the start that takes time, 0:24:25.980 --> 0:24:28.230 and you need to put these people in pressure situations, right? 0:24:28.260 --> 0:24:31.050 And unfortunately, you know, we we don't have enough of 0:24:31.050 --> 0:24:33.869 that before we judge someone. I saw I saw a 0:24:33.869 --> 0:24:37.139 lot of people who are seemingly meek, very small. But 0:24:37.230 --> 0:24:39.480 those dudes can last in the field. They can just 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.610 keep fighting and carrying heavy loads. 0:24:41.710 --> 0:24:44.459 The psychological strength is that your mind is powerful. 0:24:44.740 --> 0:24:46.920 Yeah, I don't know what it is. I remember being 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:49.140 very like, Wow, OK. And because for me, I would 0:24:49.140 --> 0:24:52.379 have all these sergeants going, like, How Geula? Yeah, I'm like, 0:24:52.830 --> 0:24:56.850 I can run. I'm happy with silver. I barely hits 0:24:56.850 --> 0:25:00.990 a scratch Silva, right? But there's this immediate expectation. 0:25:01.210 --> 0:25:04.439 So do you feel like in general, this whole perception 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.080 is changing along the way? Do you think you know, 0:25:07.260 --> 0:25:09.900 guys and even you opening up about, you know, going 0:25:09.900 --> 0:25:12.990 for your life, coach therapy and stuff like that? I'm 0:25:12.990 --> 0:25:14.250 not sure if I'm doing that right. You have a 0:25:14.250 --> 0:25:17.250 life coach you. Open to therapy, because a lot of 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.560 men out there still see or perceive therapy and counselling 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.700 is something of a weakness, you know? 0:25:23.790 --> 0:25:27.750 Yeah, I mean, I see all these ads advocating getting 0:25:27.750 --> 0:25:29.700 help for mental health and all that, which is really 0:25:29.700 --> 0:25:31.949 nice to see. Yeah, I think that's good. I think 0:25:31.950 --> 0:25:34.500 that with the rise of feminism as well and definitely helps. 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.100 Just though you're talking about the female bathroom, right? Yeah. 0:25:38.130 --> 0:25:39.659 Now everyone's really back there. 0:25:39.780 --> 0:25:40.230 OK. 0:25:40.260 --> 0:25:45.420 Unfortunately, men aren't very good at getting help and advice 0:25:45.420 --> 0:25:47.460 even from other men, even from their own friends. 0:25:47.940 --> 0:25:49.740 I agree with that. You continue first. 0:25:50.070 --> 0:25:52.740 I kind of grew up living vicariously through my friends, 0:25:53.250 --> 0:25:55.530 and I would want to always get that advice and 0:25:55.540 --> 0:25:58.109 opinions and always observe what they're doing and how you 0:25:58.109 --> 0:26:00.600 know how they're doing it and try to learn from 0:26:00.750 --> 0:26:03.450 from what they're doing. Even until now, it's not very 0:26:03.450 --> 0:26:06.990 easy to sit down and go, Guys, I'm going through this. Yeah, 0:26:07.050 --> 0:26:08.879 I need some help. Yeah, it's 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:09.919 OK. 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.750 I mean, for me, I'm a bit more open, but 0:26:12.750 --> 0:26:14.340 I know a lot of guys who would rather just 0:26:14.340 --> 0:26:18.180 like help themselves. Yeah. And I don't really know where 0:26:18.180 --> 0:26:22.139 that comes from or why. Maybe because the of the 0:26:22.140 --> 0:26:24.660 belief that no matter what my friends see, it's my 0:26:24.660 --> 0:26:27.239 life and these are my experiences and my thoughts. And 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:29.590 this is why I am. So there's no point looking elsewhere. 0:26:29.609 --> 0:26:31.500 I would rather look inward, which is not a good, 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:33.209 which is not a bad way of looking at it. 0:26:33.450 --> 0:26:34.200 I think that 0:26:34.350 --> 0:26:36.300 sometimes you kind of internalize everything. 0:26:36.660 --> 0:26:39.510 Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes your judgment is clouded by your 0:26:39.510 --> 0:26:43.139 own cognitive biases, your own experiences, your own emotions. When 0:26:43.140 --> 0:26:45.750 you're very close to the situation, you can't really see 0:26:45.750 --> 0:26:47.760 it for what it is. So that's unfortunate. And I think, 0:26:47.940 --> 0:26:52.150 most importantly, is just having that avenue to reinvent yourself. 0:26:52.170 --> 0:26:53.740 And yeah, it's healthy. 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:56.760 I've seen this thing where people, when people are venting right, 0:26:56.760 --> 0:26:58.260 the first question you ask is, are we here to 0:26:58.260 --> 0:27:01.869 look for solutions? Or we had to vent which. So 0:27:01.890 --> 0:27:03.510 I sold out on Facebook and I say, Wow, that's 0:27:03.510 --> 0:27:05.280 a really good way of approaching things. 0:27:05.310 --> 0:27:08.010 It's true because sometimes all you want is an outlet. 0:27:08.050 --> 0:27:11.250 And I have to say this because sometimes when my 0:27:11.250 --> 0:27:14.490 partner and I fight for it, he will go off 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:17.639 with himself and just sort of process it or whatever. 0:27:17.910 --> 0:27:19.770 And the first thing that I do is call my 0:27:19.770 --> 0:27:23.190 girlfriends like the person who's texting the group chat, Oh 0:27:23.190 --> 0:27:26.220 my god, guys, this happened in like voice. No. Yeah. 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.070 And say, Let's see the fight. It's like, very bad. 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:33.930 And maybe, perhaps we don't really talk to each other 0:27:33.930 --> 0:27:35.310 for a couple of days, or we want to take 0:27:35.310 --> 0:27:38.240 some time out and not get into any more fights 0:27:38.250 --> 0:27:42.760 or abrasive conversations anymore. I can spend the next two 0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:46.140 or three days confiding in three separate group of friends. 0:27:46.170 --> 0:27:49.500 Our producer is laughing right now because she knows it's true. 0:27:49.830 --> 0:27:52.060 And then when I ask you when we finally, you know, 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:55.290 come together and say, Look, when you discuss, you know, 0:27:55.290 --> 0:27:58.080 let's let's let's lay it out and resolve this a bit. 0:27:58.260 --> 0:28:01.870 So did you share with your friends? And he's like, No, no, 0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:04.550 what do you mean? You didn't show a single person? 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:09.530 I literally share with my entire social life. He was like, What? 0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:11.939 He's so cute. I mean, as as far as it goes, 0:28:11.940 --> 0:28:14.100 you might just share with the one guy friend that 0:28:14.100 --> 0:28:17.699 he trusts or talks and even saw it end in 0:28:17.700 --> 0:28:20.639 30 minutes. And like I said, I went all day. 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:22.700 I was six hours talking about the same thing. 0:28:22.710 --> 0:28:26.760 I have definitely noticed. It's that women will always tell 0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:29.400 their friends will always tell their friends, will always and 0:28:29.430 --> 0:28:32.430 not just one social circle. You need to, you know, 0:28:32.430 --> 0:28:32.980 get it out there. 0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:35.160 Yeah. And it's like a brand new story every time, 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:35.570 you know? 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.180 So I don't know if that's a very good idea, 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.090 because if it's if it's a couple of fight and 0:28:42.090 --> 0:28:43.140 you're letting the whole world 0:28:43.140 --> 0:28:46.020 know you wanted to keep it between is a personal problem. 0:28:46.030 --> 0:28:48.810 Yeah, because what happens is when the fight is over, 0:28:49.380 --> 0:28:52.530 you may forgive this person, but your friends may not 0:28:52.530 --> 0:28:56.580 necessarily have forgiven. May not have agreed if your decision 0:28:56.580 --> 0:28:57.060 to forgive. 0:28:57.260 --> 0:28:59.370 Maybe see see your partner in a different way. 0:29:00.150 --> 0:29:01.480 Oh, see your friend spotted them differently. 0:29:01.670 --> 0:29:02.790 Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah. 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.670 So then what happens is it can have a negative 0:29:05.670 --> 0:29:08.150 impact on the relationship because the next time you guys fight, 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:10.980 and if you were to tell this friend again, this 0:29:10.980 --> 0:29:14.210 friend is already has already has a bias. Yeah, yeah. 0:29:14.340 --> 0:29:15.960 And this the thing about confiding in friends. Your friends 0:29:15.960 --> 0:29:16.980 will always have a bias. 0:29:17.020 --> 0:29:20.010 Yeah. And you'll always be on your side regardless. Well, 0:29:20.010 --> 0:29:20.900 most of the time, 0:29:21.210 --> 0:29:24.960 most of the time or relative may be more empathetic. Yes. 0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:27.900 Yeah. So I think, you know, we've covered quite a 0:29:27.900 --> 0:29:31.800 wide variety of examples, stories, experiences, everything. Let's wrap it 0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:34.709 up with this question for you. Why do you think 0:29:34.710 --> 0:29:38.460 masculinity is so important to most men, and is this 0:29:38.460 --> 0:29:40.440 something that needs to change? 0:29:41.070 --> 0:29:44.310 I think I think it stems from insecurity. I think 0:29:44.310 --> 0:29:49.229 that people. Find it easier to fall into norms and 0:29:49.230 --> 0:29:51.000 rules that have been around for a long time. It's 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.040 easier to do that and go like, OK, this is 0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:56.160 what it means. It's a very textbook answer. I'm going 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.800 to work to become this. Yeah, I'm not going to 0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:00.090 be the sole breadwinner, 0:30:00.490 --> 0:30:02.550 you know, by the house. Do this, do that 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:04.220 like this is what it means to be a man. 0:30:04.230 --> 0:30:07.200 I'm going to work to become this person rather than 0:30:07.500 --> 0:30:10.080 look inward and become who I am and be OK 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:10.440 with that 0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:11.130 and embrace it. 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.470 Yeah, because I mean, to me, ultimately being a man 0:30:13.470 --> 0:30:15.870 is integrity. It's doing the right thing, even in the 0:30:15.870 --> 0:30:20.430 face of adversity, adversity. And that's not gender specific. 0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:23.370 I know. And you know, I feel like the ideal 0:30:23.370 --> 0:30:26.100 and I guess in a way when you are looking 0:30:26.100 --> 0:30:28.410 for the ideal partner or in my case, I do, 0:30:28.410 --> 0:30:31.200 man and all that right. I think to me is 0:30:31.290 --> 0:30:34.140 not so much of like all like how well you 0:30:34.140 --> 0:30:36.540 take care of your physique. And it's more do you 0:30:36.540 --> 0:30:39.870 take care of me as a partner? Are you consider it? 0:30:39.870 --> 0:30:45.180 Are you conscientious? You know you are. You also someone 0:30:45.180 --> 0:30:48.240 who wants to keep your mental and physical health in check? 0:30:48.270 --> 0:30:50.790 I think that's also important taking care of yourself. And 0:30:50.790 --> 0:30:54.120 then in turn, taking care of your partner. It's an ecosystem, right? Like, 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.240 everything sort of is like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, one 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.190 is doing good and so on. Yeah. 0:30:59.460 --> 0:31:01.560 Yeah, because you impact your partner that way. And if 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:05.489 your partner maybe doesn't struggles, if if self-care, then you 0:31:05.490 --> 0:31:08.820 can impact that knowledge. Yes, but ultimately just falling into 0:31:08.820 --> 0:31:11.640 a norm because it's the norm without questioning it and 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.750 changing yourself to suit this norm, suppressing yourself or trying 0:31:15.750 --> 0:31:19.210 to be something you're not. It's not sustainable. You can't like. 0:31:19.260 --> 0:31:21.870 That's why. So suicide rates for men are very high. 0:31:22.230 --> 0:31:26.130 Depression rates are very high or higher than women. And 0:31:26.130 --> 0:31:28.350 there's a reason for that because I feel like women 0:31:28.350 --> 0:31:31.260 are a lot more likely to express themselves, whereas men 0:31:31.260 --> 0:31:33.510 are like, No, it's not. The many thing to do 0:31:33.510 --> 0:31:36.150 is the man's role to which is, I got this 0:31:36.270 --> 0:31:37.130 not sustainable at all. 0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:40.380 Yeah, no, I totally agree. So I think to wrap 0:31:40.380 --> 0:31:43.200 this up nicely, you know, it is important for you 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:46.050 to be in touch with your emotions, your feelings to 0:31:46.050 --> 0:31:49.560 also realize that it's OK to ask for help. It 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:52.410 doesn't matter if you're a guy or whatever, it doesn't matter. 0:31:52.410 --> 0:31:55.200 I think it's just so important to do some introspection, 0:31:55.300 --> 0:31:58.740 reflection as well and realize that it's OK to even 0:31:58.740 --> 0:32:00.810 go for therapy. I think that's something that is such 0:32:00.810 --> 0:32:03.810 a big conversation. Ariana Grundy is doing like $2 billion 0:32:03.810 --> 0:32:07.230 worth of giveaways with better health now. It's not wrong. 0:32:07.650 --> 0:32:10.620 So she's encouraging people to also seek help. Go for therapy, 0:32:10.620 --> 0:32:12.600 talk about your, your feelings and your problems. 0:32:12.630 --> 0:32:18.300 Actually unknown, right? Yeah. Being vulnerable to strangers, you know, friends, 0:32:18.300 --> 0:32:20.310 because sometimes it's the hardest to be vulnerable to your 0:32:20.310 --> 0:32:21.870 own family members, closest friends. 0:32:21.900 --> 0:32:23.010 That is the hardest thing to do. 0:32:23.050 --> 0:32:26.040 Yeah, that takes courage. I mean, I don't know about 0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:29.130 you guys, but I feel like courage is a very masculine. Yeah. 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:29.590 You know, 0:32:29.650 --> 0:32:30.750 call pretty sexy. 0:32:30.810 --> 0:32:31.980 Yeah, exactly. 0:32:32.470 --> 0:32:34.920 Food. Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you so much for 0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:36.870 being with us. Thank you. I had a great conversation 0:32:36.870 --> 0:32:40.890 with you. I mean, this is an interesting first meeting topic. 0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:42.890 You know, usually would be like, you know, how are you? 0:32:42.900 --> 0:32:48.030 What's your favorite color? But that's very flattering, actually. Was 0:32:48.030 --> 0:32:50.370 that something I never I never ask someone for their 0:32:50.370 --> 0:32:53.520 favorite color? You know, I think the next episode will 0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:56.670 be how to flirt. Yes. Thank you so much for 0:32:56.670 --> 0:32:59.700 listening to this episode of Men Explain. If you like 0:32:59.730 --> 0:33:02.160 what you heard, please hit the follow button. We're available 0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:05.880 on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, please follow us at 0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:09.570 its Clarity Echo and Instagram and Facebook for more content 0:33:09.570 --> 0:33:11.070 like this. We'll see you next time.