1 00:00:03,210 --> 00:00:05,550 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:08,510 --> 00:00:12,090 Speaker 2: Hello, it's Andrea Heng. And this is the Money Talks 3 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:15,609 Speaker 2: podcast where we talk about all things money. Now, if 4 00:00:15,619 --> 00:00:19,850 Speaker 2: you haven't already, please kindly follow us on Spotify, Apple 5 00:00:19,860 --> 00:00:23,409 Speaker 2: podcasts and youtube music as well. That way you will 6 00:00:23,420 --> 00:00:26,250 Speaker 2: be the first to know when a new episode drops. 7 00:00:26,260 --> 00:00:29,530 Speaker 2: Speaking of new drops, we are about to drop you 8 00:00:29,540 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: some financial news. Jaini Johari, my producer is with me. 9 00:00:33,682 --> 00:00:36,222 Speaker 2: Now, tell us what we have. I'm sure you've heard 10 00:00:36,232 --> 00:00:38,742 Speaker 2: by now that the US Congress has passed a bill 11 00:00:38,752 --> 00:00:41,693 Speaker 2: on banning tiktok if it's not sold by its Chinese 12 00:00:41,702 --> 00:00:46,233 Speaker 2: parent company by dance in nine months. So tiktok creators 13 00:00:46,243 --> 00:00:49,882 Speaker 2: in the US are extremely concerned because this ban will 14 00:00:49,893 --> 00:00:52,432 Speaker 2: pretty much affect their livelihood. That's exactly what I had 15 00:00:52,443 --> 00:00:54,902 Speaker 2: in mind when I first saw that headline. So how 16 00:00:54,912 --> 00:00:58,702 Speaker 2: much impact has Tik Tok had on these businesses 17 00:00:58,855 --> 00:01:02,925 Speaker 2: for small and mid size businesses? It's practically a lifeline. Ok. 18 00:01:02,936 --> 00:01:06,155 Speaker 2: According to an Oxford economic study backed by Tik Tok, 19 00:01:06,166 --> 00:01:10,305 Speaker 2: the app fuels growth to more than 7 million businesses 20 00:01:10,316 --> 00:01:14,435 Speaker 2: in the United States and supports more than 224,000 jobs. 21 00:01:14,615 --> 00:01:19,536 Speaker 2: It also generated nearly $15 billion in revenue in 2023 22 00:01:19,545 --> 00:01:22,425 Speaker 2: for these businesses. And that's just in the US. Can 23 00:01:22,435 --> 00:01:23,896 Speaker 2: you imagine the rest of the world? 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: Oh, this just goes to show how vulnerable small business 25 00:01:28,050 --> 00:01:30,699 Speaker 2: owners are because, you know, especially if they were to 26 00:01:30,709 --> 00:01:34,569 Speaker 2: rely on just one platform and in this case, they're 27 00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:37,849 Speaker 2: in danger if that one platform is Tik Tok. Exactly. 28 00:01:37,860 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 2: And given that so many people, regardless whether you're in 29 00:01:40,569 --> 00:01:41,809 Speaker 2: Singapore or in the US, 30 00:01:41,915 --> 00:01:45,235 Speaker 2: rely on the internet for their side hustles. This just 31 00:01:45,245 --> 00:01:48,544 Speaker 2: goes to show it's so important to diversify. It's the 32 00:01:48,555 --> 00:01:51,694 Speaker 2: number one lesson here on money talks. Ok. What's next? 33 00:01:51,705 --> 00:01:55,065 Speaker 2: Some good and not so good news on the stock market. Ok. 34 00:01:55,074 --> 00:01:57,925 Speaker 2: So first some good news. It's been a great first 35 00:01:57,934 --> 00:01:59,334 Speaker 2: quarter for Great Eastern. 36 00:01:59,660 --> 00:02:03,209 Speaker 2: They just posted a 26% year on year increase in 37 00:02:03,220 --> 00:02:08,410 Speaker 2: profit to over 306 million Sing dollars. This is thanks 38 00:02:08,419 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: to higher profits from its insurance business as well as 39 00:02:11,330 --> 00:02:15,690 Speaker 2: its investment performance. The insurance arm of OCBC saw its 40 00:02:15,699 --> 00:02:19,550 Speaker 2: profits go up by 4% this year while profit from 41 00:02:19,559 --> 00:02:25,490 Speaker 2: shareholders fund rose 245% 245%. Ok. 42 00:02:25,626 --> 00:02:29,205 Speaker 2: All of this big numbers sounds like a massive jump. 43 00:02:29,216 --> 00:02:33,695 Speaker 2: What's the not so good news, Singtel saw its shares 44 00:02:33,705 --> 00:02:38,555 Speaker 2: dip by 3.3% after it warned shareholders that it expects 45 00:02:38,565 --> 00:02:41,085 Speaker 2: a net loss in the second half of the year 46 00:02:41,365 --> 00:02:44,445 Speaker 2: and lower net profit for the end of this financial year. 47 00:02:44,645 --> 00:02:47,356 Speaker 2: So financial reports say they are expected to recognize a 48 00:02:47,365 --> 00:02:51,445 Speaker 2: $3.1 billion non cash impairment 49 00:02:52,052 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: for the second half ending March 31st. Ok. So basically 50 00:02:56,852 --> 00:02:59,781 Speaker 2: this means that there are parts of the company's assets 51 00:02:59,792 --> 00:03:04,201 Speaker 2: that have reduced in value and in this case by 52 00:03:04,212 --> 00:03:08,361 Speaker 2: as much as $3.1 billion. Yes, in Sing and but 53 00:03:08,371 --> 00:03:11,932 Speaker 2: the company has assured shareholders that dividend payments will not 54 00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:14,431 Speaker 2: be affected. Ok. That's good because a lot of us 55 00:03:14,442 --> 00:03:17,481 Speaker 2: do have Singtel shares. Anyway. Indeed, 56 00:03:20,210 --> 00:03:24,269 Speaker 2: every now and again, we hear stories of people restricting 57 00:03:24,279 --> 00:03:29,630 Speaker 2: access to a partner's finances or a vulnerable elderly parent 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,449 Speaker 2: being forced to monetize their assets only to have the 59 00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:37,750 Speaker 2: benefits taken away by their adult Children without their knowledge. 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,869 Speaker 2: These are just some examples of financial abuse. There are 61 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,529 Speaker 2: many more ways a person can end up being a 62 00:03:45,539 --> 00:03:46,149 Speaker 2: victim 63 00:03:46,257 --> 00:03:49,936 Speaker 2: of such abuse. In some cases, it's worse because they 64 00:03:49,947 --> 00:03:53,876 Speaker 2: aren't even aware that they're being financially abused. So this 65 00:03:53,886 --> 00:03:56,856 Speaker 2: episode of Money talks hits different. We want to learn 66 00:03:56,867 --> 00:04:01,546 Speaker 2: to identify the signs of financial abuse and be reassured 67 00:04:01,557 --> 00:04:05,626 Speaker 2: that we can in fact seek help and that help 68 00:04:05,636 --> 00:04:08,257 Speaker 2: is going to come in the form of Chong Yue 69 00:04:08,766 --> 00:04:12,177 Speaker 2: advocate and solicitor and managing director of Beth 70 00:04:12,414 --> 00:04:16,914 Speaker 2: Chambers LLC. Among other fields, he specializes in mental capacity law, 71 00:04:16,924 --> 00:04:20,593 Speaker 2: family law, and Elder law. Thank you so much for 72 00:04:20,604 --> 00:04:23,123 Speaker 2: joining me today and thank you for having me here. 73 00:04:23,283 --> 00:04:27,694 Speaker 2: So for a start, could you lay out for our listeners? 74 00:04:27,704 --> 00:04:33,313 Speaker 2: What exactly is financial abuse? First of all, financial abuse 75 00:04:33,324 --> 00:04:36,174 Speaker 2: is quite a wide and tricky topic. There is no 76 00:04:36,183 --> 00:04:38,193 Speaker 2: fixed definition of financial abuse and 77 00:04:38,860 --> 00:04:42,510 Speaker 2: as opposed to perhaps other forms of abuse, like physical abuse, 78 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: emotional abuse, psychological abuse, and sexual abuse. However, I found 79 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:49,390 Speaker 2: some definitions that would be probably quite useful and I 80 00:04:49,401 --> 00:04:52,109 Speaker 2: sort of mesh them together. One of the definitions that 81 00:04:52,121 --> 00:04:55,851 Speaker 2: I like is that is an illegal or improper use 82 00:04:55,860 --> 00:05:01,281 Speaker 2: or mismanagement of a vulnerable person's money, property or resources 83 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:04,330 Speaker 2: without his or her knowledge or consent 84 00:05:04,589 --> 00:05:09,089 Speaker 2: and possibly under undue influence or undue pressure. 85 00:05:09,428 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm personally struck by the word vulnerable because that's a 86 00:05:13,769 --> 00:05:17,019 Speaker 2: gray area, right? How do you define vulnerable? Right. In 87 00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:19,630 Speaker 2: one sense, we look at a set of law called 88 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,980 Speaker 2: the Mental Capacity Act. It presumes that everybody has mental capacity, 89 00:05:23,988 --> 00:05:26,808 Speaker 2: which simply means the ability to make a decision. Yes. 90 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:30,890 Speaker 2: So because of that unwise decision or foolish decision doesn't 91 00:05:30,899 --> 00:05:34,899 Speaker 2: mean you are vulnerable or that you are actually under 92 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:35,130 Speaker 2: any 93 00:05:35,242 --> 00:05:38,231 Speaker 2: form of incapacity. But when we talk about vulnerability, there 94 00:05:38,242 --> 00:05:41,252 Speaker 2: is also another law that was enacted in 2018 called 95 00:05:41,261 --> 00:05:45,201 Speaker 2: the Vulnerable Adults Act. Then brings in the concept of vulnerability, 96 00:05:45,231 --> 00:05:49,092 Speaker 2: which there is an assessment which talks about self neglect, 97 00:05:49,101 --> 00:05:52,252 Speaker 2: neglect as well as other form of abuses here. However, 98 00:05:52,261 --> 00:05:54,582 Speaker 2: in all of these cases here, I think what would 99 00:05:54,592 --> 00:05:58,682 Speaker 2: be useful is we categorize it into two categories. First 100 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:00,652 Speaker 2: category means vulnerable, 101 00:06:01,053 --> 00:06:04,253 Speaker 2: but you still have mental capacity, which means that if 102 00:06:04,264 --> 00:06:06,313 Speaker 2: you were to think through the whole process of your 103 00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:09,674 Speaker 2: decision to transfer that money to that lover, you met 104 00:06:09,683 --> 00:06:13,133 Speaker 2: online who you have never met before. And if you 105 00:06:13,144 --> 00:06:16,134 Speaker 2: were isolated and forced to think through it, you might 106 00:06:16,144 --> 00:06:18,794 Speaker 2: then come to a different conclusion because you have the 107 00:06:18,803 --> 00:06:21,664 Speaker 2: ability to think about it. So that makes you perhaps 108 00:06:21,674 --> 00:06:26,743 Speaker 2: vulnerable to external pressures, probably undue influence or pressure, but 109 00:06:26,976 --> 00:06:29,585 Speaker 2: there could be other effects as well as I'll come 110 00:06:29,596 --> 00:06:33,205 Speaker 2: to later economic pressure. Now, the other one is lack 111 00:06:33,216 --> 00:06:37,864 Speaker 2: of mental capacity, which means a few categories. First is 112 00:06:37,876 --> 00:06:42,566 Speaker 2: because of a connecting decline, very often seen Alzheimer's or dementia. 113 00:06:42,786 --> 00:06:46,376 Speaker 2: So when that happens, because of diminishing mental capacity, you 114 00:06:46,385 --> 00:06:50,305 Speaker 2: find harder to make decisions and to process information. So 115 00:06:50,315 --> 00:06:52,365 Speaker 2: in that case here, you become vulnerable because of 116 00:06:52,988 --> 00:06:56,827 Speaker 2: quality. The other thing is a stroke victim. Now, stroke victims, 117 00:06:56,838 --> 00:06:59,268 Speaker 2: we all know they can recover. I've seen many of 118 00:06:59,278 --> 00:07:02,717 Speaker 2: my own relatives recovering from stroke, but it's the temporary 119 00:07:02,726 --> 00:07:06,917 Speaker 2: period there where because the decision to be made and 120 00:07:06,967 --> 00:07:09,298 Speaker 2: the family might be anxious and make it on the 121 00:07:09,308 --> 00:07:12,377 Speaker 2: behalf of the person and sometimes they may not be 122 00:07:12,388 --> 00:07:15,338 Speaker 2: right decisions or good decisions. At the same time, the 123 00:07:15,347 --> 00:07:18,377 Speaker 2: next category we really must emphasize on 124 00:07:18,619 --> 00:07:23,739 Speaker 2: is special needs, adults, those with lower capacity to begin 125 00:07:23,750 --> 00:07:26,690 Speaker 2: with congenital disability, some of them may be working the 126 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:30,670 Speaker 2: high functioning but because of their special needs, there is 127 00:07:30,679 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: a certain vulnerability there. Now, the last issue I said 128 00:07:33,769 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: is I really want to highlight this is because we 129 00:07:36,450 --> 00:07:39,589 Speaker 2: have many foreign wives in Singapore. If you are a 130 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,450 Speaker 2: foreign wife and you are here in Singapore, 131 00:07:41,912 --> 00:07:44,571 Speaker 2: you can't work because you're on L TVP. That's right. 132 00:07:44,602 --> 00:07:47,993 Speaker 2: You're not L TVP plus which allows you to work. Correct? 133 00:07:48,002 --> 00:07:51,153 Speaker 2: And you're complete financially dependent on your husband and he 134 00:07:51,162 --> 00:07:53,472 Speaker 2: just does something like please give me receipts for everything 135 00:07:53,483 --> 00:07:56,263 Speaker 2: you buy. Please don't spend money or the money that 136 00:07:56,273 --> 00:07:58,613 Speaker 2: you have transferred from an overseas bank account. It all 137 00:07:58,622 --> 00:08:01,372 Speaker 2: comes to me in cases like that. I'm afraid that 138 00:08:01,382 --> 00:08:04,352 Speaker 2: it really does sound like financial abuse when 139 00:08:04,446 --> 00:08:09,196 Speaker 2: this coercive control of everything that the wife, I mean 140 00:08:09,205 --> 00:08:11,915 Speaker 2: to be fair. There are also husbands these days in 141 00:08:11,925 --> 00:08:15,316 Speaker 2: that position as well. Absolutely. I've heard stories plenty. Yeah, 142 00:08:15,325 --> 00:08:17,626 Speaker 2: I think he brought up a very good term here. 143 00:08:17,635 --> 00:08:21,976 Speaker 2: The word coercion. I think that is the common denominator 144 00:08:21,985 --> 00:08:24,756 Speaker 2: in all of these examples that you've just cited. And 145 00:08:24,765 --> 00:08:27,226 Speaker 2: that's why I wanted to get to as well. This coercion, 146 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,470 Speaker 2: I guess you could deem it as a form of 147 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,848 Speaker 2: domestic violence in a way because often when we hear 148 00:08:33,859 --> 00:08:37,090 Speaker 2: the word abuse in the domestic violence context, we would 149 00:08:37,099 --> 00:08:40,460 Speaker 2: usually think of a physical element to it. Right. Usually 150 00:08:40,469 --> 00:08:44,949 Speaker 2: it's physical violence. How severe then is financial abuse in 151 00:08:45,099 --> 00:08:48,459 Speaker 2: this context of domestic violence? Well, let's just talk about 152 00:08:48,469 --> 00:08:52,299 Speaker 2: financial abuse over the last five years. Unfortunately, there have 153 00:08:52,309 --> 00:08:52,539 Speaker 2: been 154 00:08:52,765 --> 00:08:58,325 Speaker 2: 5 to 18 cases of financial abuse investigated. Unfortunately, think 155 00:08:58,335 --> 00:09:00,426 Speaker 2: that this might just be the tip of the iceberg. 156 00:09:00,434 --> 00:09:03,385 Speaker 2: These are just the reported cases. Can you imagine how 157 00:09:03,395 --> 00:09:06,745 Speaker 2: many more have gone unreported? So, in a marriage where 158 00:09:06,755 --> 00:09:11,306 Speaker 2: one spouse commits financial abuse towards the other, you've noted 159 00:09:11,315 --> 00:09:14,825 Speaker 2: foreign wives. And as an example, what other kinds of 160 00:09:14,835 --> 00:09:17,976 Speaker 2: scenarios might we encounter financial abuse in a 161 00:09:18,052 --> 00:09:21,591 Speaker 2: marriage? One of the spouses might find an economic vulnerable 162 00:09:21,601 --> 00:09:24,591 Speaker 2: position and that's because of lack of knowledge of the 163 00:09:24,601 --> 00:09:28,932 Speaker 2: expenses and the finances in the family. For example, the 164 00:09:28,942 --> 00:09:32,311 Speaker 2: other spouse might be out there earning, making lots of money, 165 00:09:32,322 --> 00:09:35,731 Speaker 2: doing lots of investments, but the spouse who is economic 166 00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:39,632 Speaker 2: vulnerable has no knowledge. And when that happens is when 167 00:09:39,651 --> 00:09:43,262 Speaker 2: they unfortunately find their spouse divorcing them 168 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:46,590 Speaker 2: because they may have gone on to somebody else when 169 00:09:46,599 --> 00:09:50,359 Speaker 2: they try to claim their share the assets, they really 170 00:09:50,369 --> 00:09:53,140 Speaker 2: just can't find anything. I remember I have a very 171 00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:56,270 Speaker 2: good friend is English and she used to share with 172 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,659 Speaker 2: me how she and her husband did it because in 173 00:09:58,669 --> 00:10:01,260 Speaker 2: the relationship, she was the one who gave up her 174 00:10:01,270 --> 00:10:03,890 Speaker 2: career in order to look after the family. But what 175 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:07,039 Speaker 2: she and husband does every year is to lay out 176 00:10:07,049 --> 00:10:10,289 Speaker 2: all the accounts of the family, all the expenses, all 177 00:10:10,299 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: the properties or the assets 178 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:14,539 Speaker 2: and they will discuss. I think this is brilliant in 179 00:10:14,549 --> 00:10:18,609 Speaker 2: building a strong relationship because the spouse whose economic vulnerable 180 00:10:18,619 --> 00:10:21,669 Speaker 2: would feel less vulnerable in this case because I trust you, 181 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,750 Speaker 2: you are telling me. And every year I can see 182 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: the difference based on what I can see and what 183 00:10:25,210 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 2: I observe. And that's something I really encourage all couples 184 00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:29,270 Speaker 2: to do, especially 185 00:10:29,484 --> 00:10:32,705 Speaker 2: when one is dependent on the other. So let's say 186 00:10:32,715 --> 00:10:35,215 Speaker 2: if you are the woman and economic or vulnerable woman, 187 00:10:35,224 --> 00:10:38,895 Speaker 2: you're in a marriage and you need the funds for 188 00:10:38,905 --> 00:10:44,103 Speaker 2: your Children. There's something called maintenance, right? Interim maintenance in 189 00:10:44,114 --> 00:10:46,574 Speaker 2: the course of marriage where you can just apply for 190 00:10:46,585 --> 00:10:46,734 Speaker 2: it 191 00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:48,989 Speaker 2: and to get the fire. Of course, if you have 192 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 2: to go to the extent of applying for a court 193 00:10:52,450 --> 00:10:56,210 Speaker 2: order against your spouse, there probably are more issues that unfortunately, 194 00:10:56,219 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: but remember that is this record there to begin with 195 00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:01,988 Speaker 2: because you should really need to find out 196 00:11:02,190 --> 00:11:05,390 Speaker 2: in the streets with your Children with no home, with 197 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: no funds and everything else. And the whole maintenance system 198 00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: has been worked on by the family justice courts. And 199 00:11:11,570 --> 00:11:14,729 Speaker 2: there's a lot more procedures to make it accessible and 200 00:11:14,739 --> 00:11:16,729 Speaker 2: easy for the man in the street or the lady 201 00:11:16,739 --> 00:11:17,330 Speaker 2: in the street 202 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,780 Speaker 2: to actually approach the court for help. In order to 203 00:11:20,789 --> 00:11:23,819 Speaker 2: get this maintenance that they need so that access has 204 00:11:23,830 --> 00:11:28,650 Speaker 2: been democratized for them. Now, in another scenario, I have here, 205 00:11:28,659 --> 00:11:33,140 Speaker 2: a parent, child relationship where the adult Children abuse their 206 00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 2: access to their senior parents money. We do hear reports 207 00:11:36,690 --> 00:11:39,900 Speaker 2: of such cases emerging in Singapore and it's quite unfortunate. 208 00:11:40,039 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: So an example I will throw to you here is 209 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: and I'm not to be granular but in the event 210 00:11:45,770 --> 00:11:46,179 Speaker 2: where 211 00:11:46,486 --> 00:11:50,356 Speaker 2: out of three siblings, one is the primary caregiver of 212 00:11:50,366 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 2: those elderly parents and that sibling feels entitled to more 213 00:11:54,606 --> 00:11:57,415 Speaker 2: of the funds compared to the other two. So because 214 00:11:57,426 --> 00:12:00,375 Speaker 2: of that, they may feel that they may be expenses 215 00:12:00,385 --> 00:12:02,966 Speaker 2: that they paid out of their own pockets. They may 216 00:12:02,976 --> 00:12:06,155 Speaker 2: have covered the hospitalization fees and everything else. I think 217 00:12:06,166 --> 00:12:09,314 Speaker 2: the first thing keep records if you are that sibling, 218 00:12:09,325 --> 00:12:12,455 Speaker 2: keep your receipts, keep your records because if you want 219 00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:14,875 Speaker 2: to claim against mummy or daddy's estate event, 220 00:12:14,952 --> 00:12:17,361 Speaker 2: eventually you have to show your siblings. I mean, you 221 00:12:17,372 --> 00:12:20,011 Speaker 2: can't for them if you tell them that I paid 222 00:12:20,021 --> 00:12:24,302 Speaker 2: $400,000 and it said, where's your evidence? So you mentioned 223 00:12:24,312 --> 00:12:28,211 Speaker 2: this other group of vulnerable persons as well, those with 224 00:12:28,221 --> 00:12:32,291 Speaker 2: cognitive mental conditions, even those with special needs and much 225 00:12:32,302 --> 00:12:35,372 Speaker 2: like the other categories that we talked about. It usually 226 00:12:35,381 --> 00:12:40,401 Speaker 2: does involve immediate family members or a caregiver with very 227 00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:43,530 Speaker 2: close access to the victim's money. 228 00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:47,488 Speaker 2: Might this be harder to detect given the fact that 229 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:51,238 Speaker 2: such victims don't always have the capacity, as you said 230 00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: to handle finances, make those big decisions, be aware about 231 00:12:56,210 --> 00:13:00,299 Speaker 2: what's actually happening when it comes to their estate and assets. Yes, 232 00:13:00,309 --> 00:13:03,109 Speaker 2: I think in this particular area, I will speak on 233 00:13:03,119 --> 00:13:05,039 Speaker 2: two sides. First, the first 234 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:08,375 Speaker 2: will be those who have not lost capacity yet and 235 00:13:08,385 --> 00:13:11,075 Speaker 2: those who have lost capacity. One thing I want to 236 00:13:11,085 --> 00:13:14,036 Speaker 2: start talking about is safeguards. Now, we all have heard 237 00:13:14,046 --> 00:13:17,265 Speaker 2: about lasting power attorney. Now, the lasting power attorney, there 238 00:13:17,276 --> 00:13:21,096 Speaker 2: are two different forms. One is called form one and 239 00:13:21,106 --> 00:13:24,776 Speaker 2: was form two from what I know, 99.9% of Singaporeans 240 00:13:24,785 --> 00:13:25,885 Speaker 2: have done form one 241 00:13:26,331 --> 00:13:29,452 Speaker 2: and the rest it form too. So what's the difference? Really? 242 00:13:29,461 --> 00:13:32,892 Speaker 2: Now imagine this, I have a blank check and I 243 00:13:32,901 --> 00:13:35,391 Speaker 2: say here's a blank check. You can do anything that 244 00:13:35,401 --> 00:13:37,851 Speaker 2: you want for me on my behalf, make any decision. 245 00:13:37,861 --> 00:13:40,872 Speaker 2: I absolutely trust you. Right. And on form one, it 246 00:13:40,881 --> 00:13:44,242 Speaker 2: says that choose somebody that you trust because if you 247 00:13:44,252 --> 00:13:47,052 Speaker 2: choose somebody who you trust, but end up being someone 248 00:13:47,062 --> 00:13:47,401 Speaker 2: who 249 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 2: unfortunately financially abuse you. Now, that's the problem here because 250 00:13:51,690 --> 00:13:57,770 Speaker 2: under the Donny regime, there is no mandatory reporting to 251 00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:01,260 Speaker 2: the office of public guardian in terms of the decisions made, 252 00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:05,700 Speaker 2: whether on the finances or on the personal welfare, like accommodation, 253 00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 2: meaning to say that that person that appoint a person 254 00:14:08,090 --> 00:14:12,699 Speaker 2: can do whatever you will, whatever he or she you will. 255 00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:15,059 Speaker 2: So that's why you really have to trust a person 256 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,969 Speaker 2: and know that this person knows you well. So the 257 00:14:17,979 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 2: thing here about the LP format that it is a 258 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:22,820 Speaker 2: great form. However, I think we all have to go 259 00:14:22,830 --> 00:14:23,979 Speaker 2: with our eyes wide open 260 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,049 Speaker 2: on what are the certain limitations there. So the other 261 00:14:28,059 --> 00:14:30,549 Speaker 2: thing is now the LP form to LP form to 262 00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:33,900 Speaker 2: is drafted by lawyers where you can put in restrictions 263 00:14:33,909 --> 00:14:38,690 Speaker 2: and conditions. So for example, remember that both LP forms 264 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:41,539 Speaker 2: are registered with the Office of Public Guardians, which means 265 00:14:41,549 --> 00:14:44,690 Speaker 2: at any point in time, any financial institution can call 266 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:46,090 Speaker 2: for it. Now imagine this, 267 00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:51,229 Speaker 2: the LP two says that I only need $100,000 for 268 00:14:51,239 --> 00:14:54,679 Speaker 2: my living expenses in one year. And you don goes 269 00:14:54,690 --> 00:14:58,539 Speaker 2: to the bank and say, can I withdraw $200,000 at 270 00:14:58,830 --> 00:15:02,140 Speaker 2: that point in time? The condition LP to would say 271 00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:04,130 Speaker 2: so we will alert the banker to say 272 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:10,020 Speaker 2: the LP to says $100,000. So you see much careful 273 00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:13,570 Speaker 2: planning and more purposeful planning as well. The thought process 274 00:15:13,580 --> 00:15:16,500 Speaker 2: that go through goes into form tools in the putting 275 00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:19,659 Speaker 2: down of restriction and conditions and that would probably help 276 00:15:19,669 --> 00:15:20,419 Speaker 2: to safeguard 277 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,659 Speaker 2: the person who is safeguarding you. Now, another area is 278 00:15:23,669 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: an area called Trust. I want to highlight something called 279 00:15:25,969 --> 00:15:29,250 Speaker 2: the special needs Trust Company is a company that is 280 00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:32,130 Speaker 2: government sponsored, right where you can keep your funds in 281 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:35,789 Speaker 2: for your beneficiaries who are special needs. Yeah. And you 282 00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:37,679 Speaker 2: know what the best thing here is because it is 283 00:15:37,690 --> 00:15:42,619 Speaker 2: government initiated. The setup fee, 90% is actually subsidized by 284 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:44,820 Speaker 2: the government. A no brainer. There's a no brainer 285 00:15:44,896 --> 00:15:47,937 Speaker 2: and not just that, but they have also tied up 286 00:15:47,947 --> 00:15:50,536 Speaker 2: with Great Eastern to have insurance policy. Is that for 287 00:15:50,546 --> 00:15:53,117 Speaker 2: what you pay out, Great Eastern pays out more upon 288 00:15:53,127 --> 00:15:56,346 Speaker 2: you passing so that your special need dependent would have 289 00:15:56,356 --> 00:15:59,517 Speaker 2: this capital sum of cash. What specialist trust does? It 290 00:15:59,526 --> 00:16:02,166 Speaker 2: is not just a trustee company, they also have a 291 00:16:02,177 --> 00:16:05,466 Speaker 2: social element. So if you have a special need, dependent 292 00:16:05,656 --> 00:16:07,877 Speaker 2: in a nursing home, right? Not only would they visit 293 00:16:07,887 --> 00:16:09,077 Speaker 2: a trustees, but it 294 00:16:09,153 --> 00:16:11,323 Speaker 2: the funds run down low, they will also help you 295 00:16:11,333 --> 00:16:14,934 Speaker 2: apply for government grants. So specialist trust is one of 296 00:16:14,943 --> 00:16:17,674 Speaker 2: options there that allows you to safeguard a portion of 297 00:16:17,684 --> 00:16:20,083 Speaker 2: the money. Of course, you can have other people in 298 00:16:20,093 --> 00:16:23,963 Speaker 2: the family, managing other inheritance, but this allows you to 299 00:16:23,973 --> 00:16:26,653 Speaker 2: be there. The monies are invested by public trustee, right? 300 00:16:26,664 --> 00:16:30,994 Speaker 2: So now I'm sure that sometimes people don't even know 301 00:16:31,004 --> 00:16:33,333 Speaker 2: that they are being taken advantage of. 302 00:16:33,411 --> 00:16:35,981 Speaker 2: I mean, we've all been there. It's not a particular 303 00:16:35,991 --> 00:16:39,250 Speaker 2: group of people, these kinds of things are not discriminate. 304 00:16:39,291 --> 00:16:42,630 Speaker 2: We've had bad relationships before. So you're just blind to 305 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,060 Speaker 2: critical thinking, the emotion there is in that moment, you're 306 00:16:46,070 --> 00:16:50,500 Speaker 2: unable to see clearly what's really happening to you. So, 307 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,051 Speaker 2: why is it so hard for someone to know they're 308 00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:57,580 Speaker 2: being financially abused? Well, first of all, unfortunately is 309 00:16:57,830 --> 00:16:59,909 Speaker 2: I think that some of them actually do know they 310 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: are being financially abused, but it's just difficult. Let's say 311 00:17:03,409 --> 00:17:06,770 Speaker 2: that's your favorite son. Your favorite son, unfortunately likes to 312 00:17:06,780 --> 00:17:09,339 Speaker 2: drink a little bit too much and he goes to 313 00:17:09,349 --> 00:17:12,010 Speaker 2: your wallet and takes out $50 from it. That is 314 00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:15,219 Speaker 2: financial abuse. But your son is also the one looking 315 00:17:15,229 --> 00:17:17,510 Speaker 2: after you. You wish that he doesn't come back drunk 316 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,750 Speaker 2: so often. But apart from him, none of the other 317 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: Children have enough 318 00:17:20,489 --> 00:17:23,089 Speaker 2: time to look after you. You are all eight years, 319 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: but you had to make all these difficult decisions. Like 320 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: am I being financially abused? I don't really like it. 321 00:17:28,869 --> 00:17:31,129 Speaker 2: I wish you would stop. And there's this sense of helpless, 322 00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:34,430 Speaker 2: there is a bit of learned helplessness. Yeah. And I 323 00:17:34,439 --> 00:17:37,589 Speaker 2: think that is one aspect of it when people do know, 324 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,770 Speaker 2: but on the other aspect is you may not actually 325 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: know because you're like, hey, this is something that natural 326 00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:45,310 Speaker 2: like and then when you don't actually know, I turn 327 00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: out to be a bit slow to say whether it's 328 00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:48,219 Speaker 2: financially abused, for example, 329 00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:51,839 Speaker 2: like I decided to give my property to my oldest 330 00:17:51,849 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 2: kid because I'm a traditional Chinese person who believes that 331 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:57,609 Speaker 2: the older should get the share inheritance. So is that 332 00:17:57,619 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 2: financial abuse the rest me? So but it may be 333 00:18:01,170 --> 00:18:04,589 Speaker 2: for my own cultural background. Yeah. So if you say 334 00:18:04,599 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: you don't really know, I give a very good example. 335 00:18:06,739 --> 00:18:09,420 Speaker 2: So there had been this case where you join account now, 336 00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:12,510 Speaker 2: you know, joint accounts. So a parent put a joint 337 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,599 Speaker 2: account holder as a daughter. Now 338 00:18:14,959 --> 00:18:17,270 Speaker 2: they didn't really check the account. They depend on daughter 339 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,729 Speaker 2: to actually withdraw money, to take care of them. Then 340 00:18:20,739 --> 00:18:22,290 Speaker 2: they got a notice on the bank You zero money 341 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:27,709 Speaker 2: left $130,000 had disappeared. And when they went to check, 342 00:18:27,719 --> 00:18:28,910 Speaker 2: they realized it was at the point of time with 343 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,619 Speaker 2: the daughter and the son in law business was doing 344 00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:35,010 Speaker 2: badly and the money was being transferred to the company 345 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 2: to pay for things. The daughter admitted say should pay back. 346 00:18:37,489 --> 00:18:39,979 Speaker 2: But that is not that you don't know you're being 347 00:18:39,989 --> 00:18:40,979 Speaker 2: financially abused but 348 00:18:41,219 --> 00:18:44,089 Speaker 2: you may not actually see it happening. You're basically left 349 00:18:44,099 --> 00:18:47,030 Speaker 2: out in the cold. Yeah. Yeah. So, ok, so those 350 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,369 Speaker 2: are certain scenarios where you can be unaware or you 351 00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: are aware, you just feel like maybe there's nothing you 352 00:18:54,410 --> 00:18:55,599 Speaker 2: can do about it right 353 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,939 Speaker 2: now if we suspect we are being financially abused or 354 00:19:00,949 --> 00:19:05,310 Speaker 2: more likely the case, we know someone who is being abused, 355 00:19:05,319 --> 00:19:09,739 Speaker 2: we are observing someone, we know being abused financially. What 356 00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:12,579 Speaker 2: should we do from the outsiders looking in? Well, there 357 00:19:12,589 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: is a national anti violence and sexual harassment hotline. Now 358 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:19,339 Speaker 2: this is the hotline that if you have a suspicion 359 00:19:19,349 --> 00:19:20,780 Speaker 2: or you have a concern. You, 360 00:19:20,874 --> 00:19:24,144 Speaker 2: you can actually call in to this hotline to express 361 00:19:24,154 --> 00:19:27,013 Speaker 2: and let them know what's happening. Now, the other thing 362 00:19:27,023 --> 00:19:30,283 Speaker 2: you could do apart from whistle blowing is evidence. Now, 363 00:19:30,292 --> 00:19:32,413 Speaker 2: I think at the side of this podcast, I spoke 364 00:19:32,423 --> 00:19:35,404 Speaker 2: about what evidence you will need, things like bank statements. Now, 365 00:19:35,413 --> 00:19:39,154 Speaker 2: bank statements, receipts, for example, if you feel that my 366 00:19:39,263 --> 00:19:41,034 Speaker 2: money has disappeared, the first thing you do is go 367 00:19:41,042 --> 00:19:44,193 Speaker 2: to the bank and apply for bank statements. Now, this 368 00:19:44,203 --> 00:19:45,764 Speaker 2: is one thing because bank statement 369 00:19:45,868 --> 00:19:48,057 Speaker 2: are only until about six months or maybe a year 370 00:19:48,208 --> 00:19:50,907 Speaker 2: and further, you actually pay for it. I think more 371 00:19:50,917 --> 00:19:52,567 Speaker 2: than seven years, it may not be there because you 372 00:19:52,578 --> 00:19:55,078 Speaker 2: take for granted that it's going to stay there forever. 373 00:19:55,137 --> 00:19:57,887 Speaker 2: It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. So because of that, I would 374 00:19:57,897 --> 00:20:00,767 Speaker 2: go and get the evidence as much as possible. And 375 00:20:00,777 --> 00:20:03,657 Speaker 2: after getting evidence, right, if I was financially abused, I 376 00:20:03,667 --> 00:20:06,917 Speaker 2: would then go and seek legal advice to get the 377 00:20:06,927 --> 00:20:10,686 Speaker 2: lawyer who knows about financial abuse. Now, earlier on, 378 00:20:10,952 --> 00:20:12,842 Speaker 2: maybe it's good to actually talk about it. Let's say 379 00:20:12,852 --> 00:20:16,921 Speaker 2: if there is not a marriage, but it is a relationship. 380 00:20:17,052 --> 00:20:20,501 Speaker 2: There's something called predatory relationships. I think there have been 381 00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:23,462 Speaker 2: some recent cases in which that there were gifts given 382 00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:27,212 Speaker 2: to certain partners and love us in a sense and 383 00:20:27,222 --> 00:20:29,391 Speaker 2: they went to court in order to get it back. 384 00:20:29,401 --> 00:20:31,482 Speaker 2: A lot of this has to be done on my 385 00:20:31,491 --> 00:20:35,052 Speaker 2: trust arguments that the gift is actually held on trust 386 00:20:35,061 --> 00:20:35,641 Speaker 2: by the other part. 387 00:20:35,826 --> 00:20:39,075 Speaker 2: But trust arguments are very complex. So you need to 388 00:20:39,365 --> 00:20:41,875 Speaker 2: demonstrate the court and convince the court that there was 389 00:20:41,885 --> 00:20:46,046 Speaker 2: an intention to create a trust, a trust arrangement. And 390 00:20:46,056 --> 00:20:48,586 Speaker 2: in the holding of the money itself that would take 391 00:20:48,595 --> 00:20:50,515 Speaker 2: place in the high court, it takes quite a bit 392 00:20:50,526 --> 00:20:53,666 Speaker 2: of evidence. And most of the time this happens either 393 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:57,176 Speaker 2: post the loss of mental capacity or post death. And 394 00:20:57,186 --> 00:20:59,995 Speaker 2: it is a lot harder once the person who has been, 395 00:21:00,005 --> 00:21:02,145 Speaker 2: the victim is sort of gone. 396 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, to actually bring this case and recover. Yeah, I 397 00:21:05,609 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 2: think that's a tricky thing there. Now, I'm sitting in 398 00:21:08,449 --> 00:21:13,579 Speaker 2: with a lawyer, what should victim survivors ask their lawyers? 399 00:21:14,130 --> 00:21:16,150 Speaker 2: I think the first thing that you were to ask 400 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,139 Speaker 2: is what can I do in order to recover the 401 00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: money I given away? And I think in cases like this, 402 00:21:24,219 --> 00:21:27,410 Speaker 2: it's tricky because if you have given the money away 403 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: and you have made a foolish decision, 404 00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: the question is whether it will recover is much more 405 00:21:31,689 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 2: challenging because in full capacity you gave it unless it 406 00:21:34,969 --> 00:21:35,650 Speaker 2: is all spent. 407 00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:37,969 Speaker 2: Yeah. But I think what you ask is also your 408 00:21:37,979 --> 00:21:41,099 Speaker 2: rights as well or basically like what rights do I have. 409 00:21:41,109 --> 00:21:43,540 Speaker 2: So let's give an example. I am not so much 410 00:21:43,550 --> 00:21:46,329 Speaker 2: a victim survivor, but I am the family member. And 411 00:21:46,339 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 2: I know for sure that this other family member took 412 00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:52,060 Speaker 2: the money and stole it. Now, under the law itself, 413 00:21:52,069 --> 00:21:56,079 Speaker 2: under the penal code chapter 17, which is offenses against properties, 414 00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: there are some very commonly known ones which I'm sure of. 415 00:21:58,689 --> 00:22:04,020 Speaker 2: You have heard of like the extortion, criminal misappropriation of property, fraud, 416 00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,060 Speaker 2: cheating, or criminal breach of trust. So under each of 417 00:22:07,069 --> 00:22:10,550 Speaker 2: these limbs, often you already to prove that the person 418 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,550 Speaker 2: had an intention and actually did it before there's penal 419 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,030 Speaker 2: sanctions against them. But often it's harder when it's a 420 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,579 Speaker 2: family member. Yeah, it is, it is. And I think 421 00:22:19,589 --> 00:22:22,699 Speaker 2: also malice, that malice is also hard to prove, right? 422 00:22:22,709 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 2: Because it becomes an emotional intangible 423 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,968 Speaker 2: fact of the case. And I think the thing and 424 00:22:27,979 --> 00:22:30,140 Speaker 2: that's why even more. So at the start we talk 425 00:22:30,150 --> 00:22:34,910 Speaker 2: about having laws on financial abuse with criminal and penal sanctions. 426 00:22:34,979 --> 00:22:37,889 Speaker 2: That's why even more. So because I know it's really 427 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: difficult to investigate into why is it that this family 428 00:22:41,010 --> 00:22:44,179 Speaker 2: member and often is a family issue? But crime is 429 00:22:44,189 --> 00:22:47,180 Speaker 2: not a family issue. Crime happens because it is 430 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,109 Speaker 2: a crime. And I think we would really benefit us 431 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 2: to have this definition of financial abuse that we've had 432 00:22:53,729 --> 00:22:57,589 Speaker 2: criminal sanctions and penalties in order the better safe and protect. 433 00:22:57,670 --> 00:22:59,839 Speaker 2: But at this point, I would also like to bring 434 00:22:59,849 --> 00:23:03,459 Speaker 2: in the issue of mediation because often right at the 435 00:23:03,469 --> 00:23:06,939 Speaker 2: genesis of something happening when there's a bit of unhappiness 436 00:23:06,949 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: and before it proceeds any further. Bring the whole family 437 00:23:10,530 --> 00:23:14,550 Speaker 2: to the discussion table. Get a elder mediator or someone 438 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,339 Speaker 2: who is good in 439 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: mediation. I was willing to spend the time to play 440 00:23:18,290 --> 00:23:21,939 Speaker 2: the peacemaker before it gets any worse and the actual 441 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,819 Speaker 2: wrongful acts are committed. Yeah. Ok. What if I can't 442 00:23:25,829 --> 00:23:29,420 Speaker 2: afford a lawyer? What, what are my options then? Good question. Now, 443 00:23:29,469 --> 00:23:31,890 Speaker 2: if you can't afford a lawyer, let's say if you 444 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,569 Speaker 2: are the foreign spouse, there is something called Project Live 445 00:23:35,579 --> 00:23:38,889 Speaker 2: By the Law Society. Why I say foreign spouse? Because 446 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,180 Speaker 2: if you are Singaporean or permanent resident, 447 00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:43,810 Speaker 2: you can apply for the Legal Aid Bureau, right? So 448 00:23:43,819 --> 00:23:48,659 Speaker 2: the L A means testing would then gives assistance, legal assistance. 449 00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:52,569 Speaker 2: And if I'm not mistaken, the government has announced enhancements 450 00:23:52,579 --> 00:23:55,260 Speaker 2: to the other, right? There has been enhancements to L 451 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,229 Speaker 2: A that coming up different amendments in order to help 452 00:23:58,239 --> 00:24:00,589 Speaker 2: more the sandwich class, I mean I speak as a 453 00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:03,699 Speaker 2: legal assign establish, I'm a volunteer lawyer L A. They 454 00:24:03,709 --> 00:24:05,810 Speaker 2: have been doing a lot over the years in order 455 00:24:05,819 --> 00:24:08,609 Speaker 2: to promote access to justice. So that's why the law 456 00:24:08,619 --> 00:24:09,468 Speaker 2: society 457 00:24:09,694 --> 00:24:12,754 Speaker 2: actually is also coming in to cover the gap where 458 00:24:12,765 --> 00:24:15,354 Speaker 2: L doesn't cover in terms of women. So if there 459 00:24:15,364 --> 00:24:20,015 Speaker 2: are situations where mom or dad has a deputy or Donny, now, 460 00:24:20,025 --> 00:24:22,915 Speaker 2: what is a deputy? A deputy is a person appointed 461 00:24:22,925 --> 00:24:25,504 Speaker 2: by the court to have power to manage your assets 462 00:24:25,594 --> 00:24:28,734 Speaker 2: when you don't have mental capacity already. And you didn't 463 00:24:28,744 --> 00:24:33,175 Speaker 2: do an LP. Now, I had a case where the 464 00:24:33,185 --> 00:24:37,255 Speaker 2: person who was appointed to manage the money seems to 465 00:24:37,265 --> 00:24:37,915 Speaker 2: be not actually 466 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,020 Speaker 2: managing the money. Right. No, they were a very poor 467 00:24:41,030 --> 00:24:44,300 Speaker 2: family and they needed the funds, but it's just unknown 468 00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: why it wasn't being distributed. I had to bring the 469 00:24:46,810 --> 00:24:49,899 Speaker 2: deputy to court to ask for an accounting. Thankfully, the 470 00:24:49,910 --> 00:24:51,810 Speaker 2: money were all there. I mean, there was a big 471 00:24:51,819 --> 00:24:54,889 Speaker 2: disputes over how some of the money was used. But 472 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 2: in the end, I managed to get the spouse of 473 00:24:57,170 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 2: this person who has lost some capacity to become a 474 00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:02,729 Speaker 2: co deputy. In this case, in order to say that 475 00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:05,659 Speaker 2: his wife assets, the other famous don case is the 476 00:25:05,670 --> 00:25:06,209 Speaker 2: young 477 00:25:06,574 --> 00:25:10,364 Speaker 2: China tour guide. So in case of young case, it 478 00:25:10,375 --> 00:25:13,364 Speaker 2: was very clear the financial abuse. So bring back the 479 00:25:13,375 --> 00:25:16,635 Speaker 2: question here that how would you know, so madam Chung, 480 00:25:16,645 --> 00:25:19,885 Speaker 2: who was the victim in this case had a niece 481 00:25:19,895 --> 00:25:23,015 Speaker 2: who actually started realizing why are all her long time 482 00:25:23,025 --> 00:25:27,305 Speaker 2: employees like a gardener driver helpers being dismissed, right? So 483 00:25:27,314 --> 00:25:31,364 Speaker 2: when you start signs like this things are very drastic changes. 484 00:25:31,375 --> 00:25:33,744 Speaker 2: There is one thing that alerts you that maybe financial 485 00:25:33,755 --> 00:25:34,524 Speaker 2: abuse happening, 486 00:25:34,829 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 2: young came and brought his family over to live in 487 00:25:37,449 --> 00:25:40,500 Speaker 2: the house is not selling off her art collection and 488 00:25:40,510 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: he sent about $1 million as far as I remember 489 00:25:42,569 --> 00:25:46,050 Speaker 2: correctly to his bank account overseas. So that is financial 490 00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:49,300 Speaker 2: abuse happening. Yeah. And I think on that basis, the 491 00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 2: mental capacity Act thus says that if there is anyone 492 00:25:52,969 --> 00:25:54,020 Speaker 2: who commits a crime, 493 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:57,180 Speaker 2: then they shouldn't be a Donny or Deputy for the 494 00:25:57,189 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 2: revocation of the very powerful position because a deputy and 495 00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:04,150 Speaker 2: Donny has power to manage and you are vulnerable because 496 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: you have no mental capacity. There's something called professional deputies 497 00:26:08,650 --> 00:26:10,910 Speaker 2: and donates. Have you heard of it? No. Ok. So 498 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: professional deputy and Don are a group of either doctors, nurses, accountants, 499 00:26:16,984 --> 00:26:20,844 Speaker 2: lawyers, social workers, or health professionals who have been accredited 500 00:26:20,854 --> 00:26:23,665 Speaker 2: with the Office of Public Guardian, right? In order that 501 00:26:23,675 --> 00:26:26,194 Speaker 2: if you don't have a deputy and you have a 502 00:26:26,214 --> 00:26:29,805 Speaker 2: lost capacity, the court can appoint a professional deputy to 503 00:26:29,814 --> 00:26:32,744 Speaker 2: manage assets for you or if you are doing a 504 00:26:32,755 --> 00:26:35,084 Speaker 2: LP and you say, look, I'm alone in Singapore. I 505 00:26:35,094 --> 00:26:37,675 Speaker 2: don't have very close family members. I can appoint a 506 00:26:37,685 --> 00:26:38,785 Speaker 2: professional Don. 507 00:26:39,609 --> 00:26:42,589 Speaker 2: These are basically people who be accredited right by the 508 00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:46,270 Speaker 2: office of Public Guardian and that the court appoint a deputy, 509 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,349 Speaker 2: but you appoint a professional. Don't you have the power 510 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: to find someone who you're comfortable with, someone who understands you? Well, 511 00:26:54,689 --> 00:26:55,750 Speaker 2: someone who is a professional 512 00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:58,729 Speaker 2: and who will be there to actually see you through 513 00:26:58,739 --> 00:27:01,949 Speaker 2: your incapacity years as well. If you just unfortunately find 514 00:27:01,959 --> 00:27:04,459 Speaker 2: you can't find a friend, a family or neighbor to 515 00:27:04,469 --> 00:27:05,979 Speaker 2: do it for you or maybe you may not just 516 00:27:05,989 --> 00:27:08,750 Speaker 2: want to trouble them. I find that reassuring. I find 517 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,659 Speaker 2: all of this reassuring that there is support. There are 518 00:27:11,670 --> 00:27:15,170 Speaker 2: resources to help people who may be in the midst 519 00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:17,510 Speaker 2: of being financially abused. And you can 520 00:27:17,619 --> 00:27:21,290 Speaker 2: as a third party, a friend or a colleague or 521 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: a family member, a loved one, look out for the 522 00:27:24,050 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: signs and know where to turn to in order to 523 00:27:28,369 --> 00:27:31,489 Speaker 2: hopefully resolve and gain back, not just the money but 524 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 2: years of happiness that may have been lost and you've 525 00:27:34,689 --> 00:27:37,369 Speaker 2: been very helpful. Thank you so much for coming on 526 00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 2: the podcast to talk to us about 527 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 2: the seemingly invisible issue. I mean, I'm sure our listeners 528 00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: will agree one more thing though. Before we let you go, 529 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,250 Speaker 2: we have a new feature on the Money Talks podcast. 530 00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:51,869 Speaker 2: I promise it's quite fun. It's called questions from a 531 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,189 Speaker 2: head is exactly what it is. So I'm gonna have 532 00:27:54,199 --> 00:27:58,859 Speaker 2: this hat here. Ok. This hat has five questions in it. 533 00:27:59,069 --> 00:28:01,979 Speaker 2: All you need to do is pick one question. Ok. 534 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,889 Speaker 2: Ye what financial advice would you give to your 20 535 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,179 Speaker 2: year old self? One financial advice I will give myself 536 00:28:10,189 --> 00:28:12,379 Speaker 2: is really take the time to understand 537 00:28:12,670 --> 00:28:16,969 Speaker 2: investments and money, invest early. It's not so much of 538 00:28:16,979 --> 00:28:19,500 Speaker 2: whether you make money, but it's more of the education 539 00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:21,770 Speaker 2: than the knowledge. That is something I would tell myself. 540 00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:24,839 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And really this is a pertinent issue. 541 00:28:24,849 --> 00:28:27,229 Speaker 2: I hope it brings more people to see the light 542 00:28:27,239 --> 00:28:31,989 Speaker 2: and be reassured that there are ways out of financial abuse. So, 543 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,260 Speaker 2: thank you. Thank you, Andrea. 544 00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 2: And to the listener. If you believe you or someone 545 00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: else is being financially abused, get help from a family 546 00:28:41,290 --> 00:28:44,770 Speaker 2: service center or you can call the National Anti Violence 547 00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:48,369 Speaker 2: and Sexual Harassment helpline. 1 800 triple seven double zero, 548 00:28:48,380 --> 00:28:50,119 Speaker 2: double zero is the number to call 549 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,810 Speaker 2: now. Thank you for listening to this episode of the 550 00:28:52,819 --> 00:28:56,900 Speaker 2: Money Talks Podcast. If you have any questions or comments, feedback, 551 00:28:56,910 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: feel free to drop them in the comments section. Money 552 00:28:59,770 --> 00:29:02,849 Speaker 2: Talks is streaming on Apple Podcast, Spotify, as well as 553 00:29:02,859 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 2: youtube music. Leave us a rating while you're there. If 554 00:29:05,729 --> 00:29:08,430 Speaker 2: you like what you hear. Big thanks to the Money 555 00:29:08,439 --> 00:29:12,439 Speaker 2: Talks team as well. Christina Robert, Juni, Johari, Tiffany, Ang, 556 00:29:12,479 --> 00:29:16,319 Speaker 2: Joanne Chan and Sai Ye Wind, I'm Andrea Heng. We'll 557 00:29:16,329 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: catch you in the next episode.