Speaker 1: It has been a while but welcome back to another
Speaker 1: episode of men. Explain. Thank you for your viewership, your
Speaker 1: loyalty and your love
Speaker 1: today, we've got two beautiful, wonderful, lovely guests with us
Speaker 1: here today. It's Choo and John. Hi guys. My name
Speaker 1: is Chao and thank you for the whole lovely introduction
Speaker 1: and it's very rare to hear someone be like beautiful
Speaker 1: John and I were both like, oh you thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you so much. We feel we feel good,
Speaker 1: we feel good,
Speaker 2: right? My name is John and I'm glad to be back,
Speaker 2: you know, 2023 is the year of changes. Once again,
Speaker 2: you're back
Speaker 1: for round two
Speaker 2: for round two and I've lost a lot of weight.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I have to say this on
Speaker 2: every video that I have appeared because I worked hard
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: look there's something lighter and brighter about you. So we're
Speaker 1: here to answer some interesting questions here today, including our
Speaker 1: overarching one are men afraid to date strong independent women. No,
Speaker 1: here is looking at you
Speaker 1: and he replied so quickly.
Speaker 2: All the credits went
Speaker 1: down
Speaker 1: there is an explanation. Here. I can't even know what
Speaker 1: it's like to date a strong independent woman. Alright.
Speaker 2: Uh I guess we're diving straight into it but like
Speaker 2: um ok, dating a strong independent woman, I would say no,
Speaker 2: but what one looks like I would say maybe I
Speaker 2: have an idea because a strong independent woman birthed me.
Speaker 2: He has
Speaker 1: a really cool mom. I just want to put it
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: Who is also the possibly the biggest tires in Singapore
Speaker 2: Tiger mom. Yes, it's very dangerous to not mess with her.
Speaker 2: But like I've seen what that's like, you know, and
Speaker 2: like I've not dated someone like that, but I would
Speaker 2: say based on a thought experiment, you know, we extrapolate
Speaker 2: and based on data that I've gathered throughout my life,
Speaker 2: I would say no, I'm not afraid. But what does
Speaker 2: dating one feel like I have no clue because I
Speaker 2: haven't dated one before. But
Speaker 1: for child, you, do you consider yourself a strong independent woman?
Speaker 1: I never really categorize myself as that because I feel
Speaker 1: like it's a architect that I still respect a lot
Speaker 1: and I look up to. So it's a little bit
Speaker 1: difficult for me to completely declare that I am, that
Speaker 1: thing that I admire. But I feel like there are
Speaker 1: because it's something I admire. Definitely, it inspires me and
Speaker 1: there are traits about a strong independent woman that I
Speaker 1: would want to have for myself. Yeah, like being independent,
Speaker 1: I think I am very independent
Speaker 1: but maybe a different degree of a strong independent woman.
Speaker 1: You know, I think you, I, I see where you're
Speaker 1: coming because I do think that I'm a strong independent
Speaker 1: woman but on some days I just don't want to
Speaker 1: be like, I just want to be, you know, like
Speaker 1: the person that needs people to do something for me
Speaker 1: or it is also a choice like, or your mood,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So it's not like every
Speaker 1: second of every waking day I want to be that right.
Speaker 1: So I suppose
Speaker 1: more often than not, I would consider myself a strong
Speaker 1: independent woman. That's, that's pretty much how I make a
Speaker 1: lot of decisions. It's just that I never really bucketed
Speaker 1: it into like a label, but if we're going to
Speaker 1: put a label in it, I guess that's me. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna unpack it a little more. Um, John was
Speaker 1: a little bit like, you know, he had a bit
Speaker 1: of a face when you said, yeah. What, what were
Speaker 1: your thoughts?
Speaker 2: Because like, I was just gonna straight up almost cut in,
Speaker 2: but that's not appropriate
Speaker 2: to do so. Like, like my, my answer to whether
Speaker 2: you're a strong, independent is absolutely yes. There's no need to.
Speaker 2: There's no, there's no going around. But yeah, it, it's, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna kick that self doubt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like, clearly there are traits that I see
Speaker 2: in you that are definitely fit the fit the definition
Speaker 2: of strong and independent and such as, right? So when
Speaker 2: it comes to dealing with adversity, she is
Speaker 2: somebody that has a lot of uh is very resourceful
Speaker 2: and picking up on what she has in her environment
Speaker 2: in order to get through her problems and that's strength, right?
Speaker 2: And independence in the sense that she is someone that
Speaker 2: is able to pull together also resources and head space
Speaker 2: to work out things in her life so that she
Speaker 2: continues moving forward, right? And without, without overreliance on anyone
Speaker 2: and people that she picks up along the way in,
Speaker 2: in fact, rely on her and that's independence.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yes, absolutely. So, do
Speaker 1: you rely on her for certain things? For sure? We're
Speaker 1: not talking allowance or money, but we're talking about emotional support,
Speaker 2: emotional support, I think for, for our friendship, we rely
Speaker 2: on each other. So that's nice. But it's more like,
Speaker 2: for example, uh I wouldn't be housemates with her if
Speaker 2: she didn't find the house. Right.
Speaker 1: So you are the one that made the decision pretty much.
Speaker 1: So when it came to,
Speaker 1: I think any big life decision or any challenge that
Speaker 1: I face, I just go out of my way to
Speaker 1: find a solution without asking someone for help or relying
Speaker 1: on someone else to get the job done. I rather
Speaker 1: do it by myself and wait for someone to do it. So,
Speaker 1: in the context of us staying together, the entire process
Speaker 1: and how it went down really was, uh me sending,
Speaker 1: going for a viewing, sending them the listing of the
Speaker 1: house saying
Speaker 1: this is the house, I'm gonna schedule a viewing for
Speaker 1: you guys. Let me know your thoughts. They go down
Speaker 1: for the viewing, they tell me that they're ok and
Speaker 1: I get all the paperwork done and I say, ok, guys,
Speaker 1: we're moving in. Nice. You never told me this. Thank
Speaker 2: you.
Speaker 1: You know how you say mushy stuff in person where
Speaker 1: you can do it on youtube.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like almost like you will never want
Speaker 2: to praise your sibling kind of feeling because you're just like,
Speaker 2: ew get away from me.
Speaker 2: I love you. I love you, my friends. I was like,
Speaker 2: why you talk shit about but yeah, you know, she,
Speaker 2: she is so good at these kind of things, right?
Speaker 2: That it almost feels like even if we do try
Speaker 2: to contribute instead of alleviating her difficulty, we will get
Speaker 2: in a way, you know,
Speaker 1: wait, just curious. Are you like Capricorn or something? I'm not.
Speaker 1: What are you? How do you know what's going on? Nothing.
Speaker 1: I just pick out the earth sign. I figure she
Speaker 1: said I'm a Capricorn. So I share a lot of similarity.
Speaker 1: It's just that um I am not the best in
Speaker 1: terms of organizing and playing. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's the side of me that's not so similar to you.
Speaker 1: I make decisions if you present me with five, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get narrow
Speaker 1: it down, narrow it down. Yeah. So you, you are
Speaker 1: the person that would, she would just make the final decision, right? Ok. Ok. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that is a good example of independence, you know,
Speaker 1: in some ways, but taking you back even further, let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, um,
Speaker 1: in terms of earning money and stuff like that, now,
Speaker 1: I think more so than ever. There are so many
Speaker 1: more financially independent women than before. And we focus a
Speaker 1: lot on that. Like we don't want to just be like, ok,
Speaker 1: I'll just find a rich husband and rely on, on
Speaker 1: that guy. Have you ever thought of that or do
Speaker 1: you have friends who maybe contribute to that? Ok. I
Speaker 1: think a very common sentiment that I get especially, I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's
Speaker 1: accurate to say, but in this uh industry or at
Speaker 1: least in the social media space, right? And there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people who will just say things, they
Speaker 1: say this very lightly. They will be just like you
Speaker 1: can just go and get a sugar daddy. Oh, I
Speaker 1: get that so much. Like people always tell me and
Speaker 1: I always get D M from people saying they want,
Speaker 1: they want to be my sugar daddy. What? Oh, you don't? OK. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like people are really scared of me or something nice.
Speaker 1: I wish more people were afraid of me.
Speaker 1: So, you, you get D MS from sugar daddies? Yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot actually. Are they cute? I have no idea.
Speaker 1: They're all anonymous accounts. Nobody would actually show their face.
Speaker 1: We're getting a lot of one liners from this episode now.
Speaker 1: But like for real, so many sugar daddies or people
Speaker 1: who are in the space also saying that they have
Speaker 1: a sugar daddy and talking about how it's, it's a
Speaker 1: very easy life for them because all they have to
Speaker 1: do is just talk to this person and they give
Speaker 1: them money,
Speaker 1: but it is easy money. Right? So it's just, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just can't bring myself to do it. And
Speaker 1: I always tell people, I always say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I don't need your money. I rather just on my own.
Speaker 1: And that's just how I have lived my entire life.
Speaker 1: From the moment I was like in school, I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of it stems from upbringing, having to
Speaker 1: be by myself
Speaker 1: a lot or having to rely on myself a lot
Speaker 1: when I was growing up because uh there, well, when
Speaker 1: I was growing up financially, I had to save a
Speaker 1: lot of my own money and work a lot to
Speaker 1: pay off school fees, that kind of situation. And I
Speaker 1: think that was a bit of a training to for
Speaker 1: my adulthood because now that I'm in adulthood, like I'm still,
Speaker 1: I still have the same drive of wanting to
Speaker 1: cover my ass. Yeah, like provide for myself because no
Speaker 1: one's gonna look after me if I don't do it
Speaker 1: by myself. So now even when people come to me
Speaker 1: with uh offers propositions, um
Speaker 1: I know that I can do it by myself. So
Speaker 1: there's no much less or I would say no temptation
Speaker 1: for me to even consider something like that. Yeah, I 100%
Speaker 1: feel you. I think it really comes down to how
Speaker 1: you want to make your honest living as well, how
Speaker 1: you want to make your money, you know, how you
Speaker 1: feel about it at the end of the day. But
Speaker 1: to those people
Speaker 1: who feel completely fine having a sugar daddy, that's fine
Speaker 1: as well. That's your choice, you know, and there's no
Speaker 1: um we're not going to say like what's right or wrong.
Speaker 1: I agree. 100%. So John for you like have you
Speaker 1: ever dated a girl or woman that is like super
Speaker 1: financially independent? Actually
Speaker 2: not really. I
Speaker 2: am excited at the prospect of meeting someone like that
Speaker 2: because I thought it would be a very interesting
Speaker 2: sort of like experience to kind of deal with that
Speaker 2: dynamic because you know, like what you accurately mentioned right? There,
Speaker 2: there is this, there is this uh societal pressure, you know,
Speaker 2: for men to be the provider and the women will
Speaker 2: usually be, be provided for, you know, and so much
Speaker 2: so that a lot of the times there are people
Speaker 2: who are afraid of meeting a lady like that because
Speaker 2: they'll feel like, you know, they are now something about
Speaker 2: something from them is being taken away, you know. But
Speaker 2: for me, I welcome the idea because I think it's
Speaker 2: really cool.
Speaker 2: I think people do not give enough credit to women
Speaker 2: who are more financially independent than their partners because in
Speaker 2: order to get there, they must have done a few
Speaker 2: things right in their lives. You know. And like those
Speaker 2: things are, they're not nothing. You can't just see the
Speaker 2: end state and be like, wow, this is the person
Speaker 2: because they like that. But you discount everything that came before,
Speaker 2: you know, and, and that's kind of cool. So, like
Speaker 2: dating someone like that would mean that this person probably
Speaker 2: has a lot of experience
Speaker 2: and stories to hear about as well. So a lot
Speaker 2: more valuable connection and a lot more meaningful conversation can
Speaker 2: come from that. And I think that's amazing and you
Speaker 2: don't
Speaker 1: find it intimidating if you were to ever meet a
Speaker 1: woman like that.
Speaker 2: I think there's only one thing that I would be
Speaker 2: worried slash intimidated by and that would be if they
Speaker 2: don't see value in me anymore, which is something that
Speaker 2: is something I feel is a common, er, insecurity when
Speaker 2: someone has a more dominant partner than the other.
Speaker 2: Right? You're worried that eventually you, you strong and independent
Speaker 2: partner is disloyal to you because they find someone who
Speaker 2: is a better fit. Hold up. So,
Speaker 1: what if the roles were reversed because the men are
Speaker 1: usually the ones, you know, looked at as the more
Speaker 1: dominating one, the breadwinner and stuff like that. So, for
Speaker 1: years and centuries wouldn't women have felt that way? Exactly.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? My husband is going to
Speaker 1: cheat on me because I'm not contributing. I mean, there
Speaker 1: was a bit of a mindset. Yeah, a bit of
Speaker 1: a mindset of or at least something I've heard from
Speaker 1: the generations is that if your husband cheats on you,
Speaker 1: then it's ok. Ignore, ignore and pretend that nothing is happening. So,
Speaker 1: is this what human behavior would just steer to word
Speaker 1: if there was one partner that's more dominant over the other,
Speaker 1: would it naturally just result in disloyalty? I don't
Speaker 2: agree that it will, it will trend towards because like
Speaker 2: there's more, you know, more capacity for human good than
Speaker 2: human bad, right? But the thing about it is that
Speaker 2: based on what we've learned from a lot of things
Speaker 2: that happen
Speaker 2: tradition is that like there is this almost uh reclamation
Speaker 2: of power from women in the past in order to
Speaker 2: deal with the breadwinner husbands. So I'm pretty sure we've
Speaker 2: all heard this before and that is calling the wives,
Speaker 2: the queen of the kitchen, right? The provider at
Speaker 1: home. I'm definitely not the queen of the kitchen. Put
Speaker 1: it out there.
Speaker 2: Ok? But like it's such a curious term because you
Speaker 2: think about it like why is there a need for
Speaker 2: uh for someone who is the leader of a kitchen? Right?
Speaker 2: Or someone
Speaker 2: who is the leader at home? Shouldn't it be a
Speaker 2: shared process between spouses if they and and parents, if
Speaker 2: their Children and providers for, for whatever priorities in their life? Right?
Speaker 2: So the mere fact that advertising and the stories and
Speaker 2: narratives that yeah, and everything in pop culture from back
Speaker 2: in the day mentions about women being the provider at home,
Speaker 2: in the queen of the kitchen is clearly because that
Speaker 2: was a time where the dynamic of strong, independent, usually
Speaker 2: skilled towards the men and the women need to
Speaker 2: reclaim some form of control and strength by possessing an
Speaker 2: area that uh somehow stereotypically became not the strong suit
Speaker 2: of the man. If not, there will be a pure
Speaker 2: power imbalance and it would just devolve into chaos. I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, in this day and age, at
Speaker 1: least I'm lucky to have experience and I'm just going
Speaker 1: to share my own experiences as well. I've been lucky
Speaker 1: enough I feel to have had partners even though we
Speaker 1: didn't get end up getting married like I dated and
Speaker 1: stuff who have been
Speaker 1: like my equals. You know, they're not exactly, they don't
Speaker 1: feel that intimidated in a sense. I think what they
Speaker 1: feel felt more would be insecurity because they think like,
Speaker 1: oh you're going to meet so many like handsome hot men,
Speaker 1: like in the industry, but a lot of them are gay.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, you know, that won't happen. Like,
Speaker 1: if you look at the percentage of men in our office. Yeah, same. Right. Exactly. So,
Speaker 1: in that sense, I think the mindset has shifted, you know,
Speaker 1: in the recent years and,
Speaker 1: and when I ask my own partner right now, like,
Speaker 1: what if I earn more than you?
Speaker 1: Um, what would happen? He was like, please provide for me.
Speaker 1: I'm happy he was like, I'm happy to show that,
Speaker 1: you know, but for like, have you ever dated a
Speaker 1: man that was intimidated by what you do your success,
Speaker 1: for example, your independence. Because I can tell that you
Speaker 1: are obviously you, you're taking life into your own hands
Speaker 1: and for sure, you know, I think quite similar to
Speaker 1: you actually, with your experience in dating, I was very
Speaker 1: lucky myself that
Speaker 1: the partners that I've had so far and the people
Speaker 1: I've gone out with and taken things with a bit further,
Speaker 1: they've all been pretty much equal as well and they
Speaker 1: treat me with respect. And I think it is because the,
Speaker 1: the sole reason why things could even move further is
Speaker 1: because they've always treated me with respect. And if anyone
Speaker 1: even gave me the slightest uh feeling of them thinking
Speaker 1: that they have to be more powerful than, than me,
Speaker 1: or they have to earn more than me to
Speaker 1: feel important then I don't think it, it would have
Speaker 1: even worked out or have gone very far. So I
Speaker 1: think we sure we may be lucky to have met
Speaker 1: people who treat us as equals. But I think it's
Speaker 1: also our kind of dating criteria. Right. Yeah, it's our
Speaker 1: own filter. Maybe it's to get subconscious that we already
Speaker 1: know what we're looking for and if anyone is the least,
Speaker 1: um
Speaker 1: kind of dissatisfied or unhappy about our success, then we
Speaker 1: wouldn't even consider going out with them. So then comes
Speaker 1: the next question. Do you think that independence translates into
Speaker 1: confidence necessarily like an independent person is definitely going to
Speaker 1: be confident? No, no, I don't think it's 100% but
Speaker 1: it definitely helps, or at least for myself, I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of the reason why I can be
Speaker 1: confident is because I'm independent and I know that
Speaker 1: I just need to rely on myself and it's not,
Speaker 1: I don't need to look for external validation on certain things.
Speaker 1: I don't need to get people's approval. I don't seek
Speaker 1: anyone else's approval apart from my own, right? So then
Speaker 1: that already makes me feel like I have things in
Speaker 1: place like I, I've got this control, I'm in control
Speaker 1: of what whatever I choose to do and that freedom,
Speaker 1: the freedom of choice, right? Uh makes me feel more confident,
Speaker 1: but a lot of things I think you're quite
Speaker 2: lucky, but I don't think every single strong and independent
Speaker 2: man or woman necessarily confident because these two are separate things. Yes,
Speaker 2: their ability and also their capacity for confidence are separate things.
Speaker 2: And like a lot of it, I guess comes down
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 2: um their personalities and upbringing for all. You know, this
Speaker 2: is a person who has a lot of ability and
Speaker 2: it is very strong, especially when facing problems, right? But
Speaker 2: if they have all their life, they have been told
Speaker 2: that they are not good enough, they will never see
Speaker 2: the merit that they have from their actions. And that's tough.
Speaker 2: You see? So they may never be confident even though
Speaker 2: everyone be like, what the heck this person is clearly
Speaker 2: a star, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes we fall into the trap where,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a bit of a sideline, but
Speaker 1: we might fall in the trap
Speaker 1: where, you know, you're, you're busy chasing success in your
Speaker 1: career or whatever it is that you define success as
Speaker 1: then when you achieve it, you're like, oh OK, what's next?
Speaker 1: Then I haven't achieved enough. So what's next? Do you
Speaker 1: guys fall into that trap a little bit? Is the
Speaker 1: entire Singapore education system? But I know, I know, but
Speaker 1: basically like you finish your O levels and then what
Speaker 1: you go on to Poly or J C, then you
Speaker 1: finish Poly, you finish your diploma and you finish your
Speaker 1: A levels. Then what's next? You go to Uni, right?
Speaker 1: And then after you are done with uni so many
Speaker 1: kids just go like, yeah. Yeah. And that's because I
Speaker 1: think the structure and the way we've been brought up
Speaker 1: in this system has trained this behavior to always think
Speaker 1: that something is waiting for us next. And when we
Speaker 1: need to make the decisions ourselves, then we realize that
Speaker 1: we don't know what to do actually, that can apply
Speaker 1: to relationships as well. Um Because I noticed, and I
Speaker 1: know
Speaker 1: I mentioned this on me, explain before because Lord knows
Speaker 1: my life is an open book ever since we started
Speaker 1: this podcast. Every single guy that I've dated has and
Speaker 1: broken up with has gotten married after me. And I always,
Speaker 1: you know, it always gets me thinking like whether OK,
Speaker 1: I definitely consider myself a career driven, independent person. And
Speaker 1: also it's the way that you are brought up, right?
Speaker 1: And I also want to support my family. I want
Speaker 1: to be able to afford a certain life or whatever
Speaker 1: it is or a future.
Speaker 1: And I always feel like at some points, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure whether it's also
Speaker 1: how I see things that maybe what, what is the
Speaker 1: next thing that I want to achieve in my career?
Speaker 1: And I'm constantly chasing that next career. Yeah, that next
Speaker 1: career move that I'm not really thinking about my personal
Speaker 1: life in that sense. And then the guys that I
Speaker 1: did because they are typically older,
Speaker 1: they're like, but I want to start a family next. Right.
Speaker 1: But then I'm never there. You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm never in that same space. So, do you think
Speaker 1: you are just waiting to be there? Because now it,
Speaker 1: it takes a while before you feel like you are
Speaker 1: on the same, you are aligned with that expectation of
Speaker 1: the relationship. Yeah. Exactly. Only when you get there. Which
Speaker 1: is the, I think I want to settle down with
Speaker 1: this person. That's when the relationship will move to the
Speaker 1: next stage, which is conventionally marriage. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, we'll see where that goes. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: currently still with the same partner ever since we started
Speaker 1: this podcast. So please let it be the same,
Speaker 2: the same name as one of her. Oh my God.
Speaker 2: You remember
Speaker 1: this? Of course, I do. That's what gets me thinking sometimes.
Speaker 1: Like can your own independence and your own chase for
Speaker 1: career and whatever it is affect your relationships as well. Actually,
Speaker 2: this is a good, good, good, like, sort of scenario
Speaker 2: that you brought up in terms of your, uh,
Speaker 2: understanding or rather the mismatch in, in expectations between your
Speaker 2: partner and yourself. Maybe the, the one question you have
Speaker 2: to kind of stop to ask yourself is what do
Speaker 2: you want in a relationship?
Speaker 1: I'm not in a therapy session, guys all of a sudden.
Speaker 2: But it's true because I think when it comes to
Speaker 2: people who are career driven and strong and independent in
Speaker 2: that aspect of their life. Uh There tends to be
Speaker 2: this overemphasis on one aspect which results
Speaker 2: in neglect in the other, which is something that I
Speaker 2: tell her all the time.
Speaker 1: Is it? Do you feel that way too? Like you
Speaker 1: are very focused on building? I mean, you're still very young,
Speaker 1: so you're still building your career. Yeah, definitely. I, I
Speaker 1: think I am very much still in the space of
Speaker 1: I'm focusing on my work because I feel like there's
Speaker 1: so many things for me to do when I haven't
Speaker 1: got where I want to be yet. And it's just
Speaker 1: the whole process of building and that journey takes a
Speaker 1: lot of time, right? And
Speaker 1: time is finite. So the end of the day, we
Speaker 1: only have this amount of time to spend with your work,
Speaker 1: your friends, your relationships. So there will be a sacrifice somewhere.
Speaker 1: I think one of the main reasons why I am
Speaker 1: still single is that I haven't really found someone that
Speaker 1: has been able to complement my life very well and
Speaker 1: fit into this routine that I have that is just
Speaker 1: focusing on work
Speaker 1: and, uh, still having supportive relationships. I think you kind
Speaker 1: of like, depend on each other instead of one, depending
Speaker 1: more on the other than the other way around,
Speaker 2: which is ironic. Right? Because if you want something that
Speaker 2: is so sort of like complimentary in terms of romance,
Speaker 2: it would mean that you need to be able to
Speaker 2: um kind of like, know what you want and balance
Speaker 2: it out with your partner and almost welcome someone into
Speaker 2: your life to match your, to match their p as
Speaker 2: they match yours. And
Speaker 2: it is something that I feel a lot of the
Speaker 2: times when uh strong and independent people try to pursue
Speaker 2: other things in their life, it is, there's an imbalance,
Speaker 2: you know, so they are really good in one aspect
Speaker 2: of their life, which most of the time when it
Speaker 2: comes to what we value in society would be things
Speaker 2: like career, but it becomes detrimental to, to other aspects
Speaker 2: of their life, like forming meaningful relationships, for example. So
Speaker 2: one of the things that I've been trying to put
Speaker 2: an active effort into doing is to live a more
Speaker 2: sort of like balanced life. So if you are
Speaker 2: more driven and you have a lot of energy and drive,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe channel that a little bit into the
Speaker 2: other aspects of your life so that you're able to
Speaker 2: more holistically grow into yourself if you are really career
Speaker 2: driven and then you're able to do really well and
Speaker 2: then you push hard and hustle hard. 2030 years later,
Speaker 2: you're at the top of the corporate ladder, but you
Speaker 2: cannot form meaningful relationships. How sad is that existence? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that, that is honestly a scary.
Speaker 2: It is. And that's why I think for me, I've
Speaker 2: come to this sort of
Speaker 2: mini epiphany whereby a balanced life is way better than
Speaker 2: uh the and a quote unquote successful one because what
Speaker 2: we value in society is very different from what we
Speaker 2: value or like in our lives. I use as an example.
Speaker 2: She's very career driven. She portions all the time very well.
Speaker 2: I have to because it is because she just brought
Speaker 2: up about the time to get a time for relationships
Speaker 2: or whatever, right? I think like one of the things
Speaker 2: you need to consider, people need to consider for in
Speaker 2: general is that like, for example, how much priority I
Speaker 2: place on relationships because
Speaker 2: you're going to portion 10% of your day to relationships,
Speaker 2: then don't expect the relationship to match the level of
Speaker 2: quality as the results you get from your work. So,
Speaker 2: you know, this is what I am and that's why
Speaker 2: a balanced life to me right now has been my
Speaker 2: conclusion of what's the best. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: why I am not actively looking for a relationship because
Speaker 1: I don't think that, well, I think something I tell
Speaker 1: people that I see now and then if I do
Speaker 1: see someone and I explain to them that I
Speaker 1: feel like I cannot commit and therefore I don't want
Speaker 1: to waste their time either. So I, I kind of
Speaker 1: let them know off the bat that I'm not really
Speaker 1: in a space where I can give you 100% in
Speaker 1: the relationship. And therefore I, I have my hesitations when
Speaker 1: it comes to furthering a relationship with them because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be half hearted about anything. That's fine.
Speaker 2: That's fine. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You want to go in 100%.
Speaker 1: And if I don't feel like I am in a
Speaker 1: space where I can give you my 100% then I,
Speaker 1: I don't want to string you along.
Speaker 2: But you also must consider this. So just counterpoints thought
Speaker 2: experiment that we can think about, right? So if your,
Speaker 2: if your intention is to find a relationship that you
Speaker 2: can give 100% to, right? What if, because of the
Speaker 2: other decisions you've made in your life, you do not
Speaker 2: have resources to give 100% to your relationship. When will
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 2: transfer the energy to relationship building? Then
Speaker 1: that goes down to what your goals are, right? So
Speaker 1: like for me, why I am trying so hard to
Speaker 1: make something out of my career and to grow is
Speaker 1: to be able to financially sustain myself in the long run, right?
Speaker 1: So one of the big goals and you know, this,
Speaker 1: one of the big goals that I have is to
Speaker 1: one day be able to afford a place of my
Speaker 1: own because renting is just paying someone else's mortgage sucks.
Speaker 1: I hate it for your landlord. Yeah, for my landlord,
Speaker 1: our landline. So that, you know, that's one of my goals.
Speaker 1: And I think after I achieve that goal, uh please
Speaker 1: future me watch this. Once I reach that goal, I
Speaker 1: know that I will start to rep prioritize my time.
Speaker 2: That's good future. You better remember this because I think
Speaker 2: the dangerous trap that, that strong independent people fall into
Speaker 2: is that what next thing that we brought about? Let
Speaker 2: me tell you
Speaker 1: this like, so I'm there, I have my own apartment
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 1: because I, yeah, I used to think that, yeah, this
Speaker 1: was my goal and all that, you know, and when
Speaker 1: I got there and then last year, when I collected
Speaker 1: my keys and everything, it became very real, right? And,
Speaker 1: and then I moved in, I was like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is something that I achieved. So I felt really proud
Speaker 1: of myself and you know, that kind of thing. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. OK. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Agents just cannot accept compliments.
Speaker 2: Congratulations.
Speaker 1: I discovered that I'm still thinking about what my next
Speaker 1: career move is because I know that I need to
Speaker 1: sustain myself. I don't know whether also because in our industry,
Speaker 1: um you know, we are also taught to think in
Speaker 1: a way that, oh, you got a shelf life, especially
Speaker 1: if you're a woman, especially if you're a woman. I
Speaker 1: always hear this. You got a shelf life, you know,
Speaker 1: you better hustle when you're young. I'm like, OK, but
Speaker 1: who determines that, right? Like I've seen some incredible artists,
Speaker 1: you know, transform and evolve and I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it's because of that, that it puts also some pressure
Speaker 1: on us in a way that,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to make sure that I think
Speaker 1: of my next career move before it's too late. Yeah. Yeah, I,
Speaker 1: I can see how that, that's a lot of pressure if,
Speaker 1: as compared to say, someone who is drawing a salary,
Speaker 1: a fixed salary every, every single month and there's a
Speaker 1: job security. Right. Whereas in this space for month to month,
Speaker 1: year to year, it really does depend on how well
Speaker 1: that month is. And um
Speaker 1: I guess that adds to this feeling of I got
Speaker 1: to keep on my, I got to keep myself on
Speaker 1: my toes. I gotta keep looking out and just keep working.
Speaker 1: But um what I hope is that eventually when I
Speaker 1: reach
Speaker 1: the goal, my goal, I will be able to reframe
Speaker 1: and fundamentally, right. I'm a very simple person. I have
Speaker 1: a very simple lifestyle and simple things. Just keep me satisfied.
Speaker 1: I don't need any, anything extravagant in my life. And
Speaker 1: um
Speaker 1: when I talk about a house that really just is well,
Speaker 1: security having a place to call home because right now that's,
Speaker 1: that's a big gaping hole in my life. I just
Speaker 1: don't have that. And I think that if I felt secure,
Speaker 1: then the way I would behave the way I carry
Speaker 1: myself and
Speaker 1: way I prioritize my time with them shift accordingly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it should shift. I mean, it should shift in
Speaker 1: that sense. But also you want to have the right
Speaker 1: person to share those experiences with in a sense, right?
Speaker 1: Do you don't you? I think yes, like if I
Speaker 1: try and,
Speaker 1: and visual envision what my ideal relationship would be, right?
Speaker 1: It really just is one where I am loved and
Speaker 1: supported by my partner. And uh we both can spend
Speaker 1: simple day to day life, like routine life together and
Speaker 1: also experience new things. Just nothing crazy. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't need uh expensive holidays and I don't need to
Speaker 1: be driving an expensive car. It's really just like simple
Speaker 1: and it's so underrated. Like you just want
Speaker 1: someone to do life with, you know, that's the thing, right?
Speaker 1: Like it's in the small things also that you find
Speaker 1: the greatest joy I personally feel in the sense when
Speaker 1: you are in a relationship, right? Um Let's talk about
Speaker 1: reassurance between partners. Let's just say, you know, you end
Speaker 1: up dating like a super successful high flyer woman. That's
Speaker 2: what
Speaker 1: that's really hot or hard. Ok. Ok. That's really hard.
Speaker 1: That's getting pretty warm in here.
Speaker 1: Um What would you need from your partner? Right, in
Speaker 1: terms of reassurance, right? For
Speaker 2: me, I think personally if I'm dating someone who is
Speaker 2: a lot more successful in terms of career for me, er,
Speaker 2: the reassurance I would need would be a very simple one,
Speaker 2: which would be that my trust is reciprocated. So all
Speaker 2: my trust is not squandered, you know, by, by, by her.
Speaker 2: And it's, it's a very simple thing. Uh, for me,
Speaker 2: I always in relationships, I give my
Speaker 2: uh partner full reign of her time and basically almost,
Speaker 2: uh like we're in a relationship but, but we are
Speaker 2: not uh so much so involved in each other others
Speaker 2: life that we need to be able to be to everything. Um,
Speaker 2: but that is the level of trust that I expect
Speaker 2: her to kind of like,
Speaker 2: like come back with. So things like, like reassuring me
Speaker 2: when meeting new people, uh there are different ways that
Speaker 2: somebody can do that. So one of the things that
Speaker 2: I try to do to reassure my partner is to
Speaker 2: um bring them along for activities and meeting with work
Speaker 2: friends and stuff like that and, and sort of intermingling
Speaker 2: friend groups.
Speaker 2: So I would appreciate if my partner did that and
Speaker 2: like setting the right boundaries in terms of helping your
Speaker 2: partner understand what to do and also kind of help
Speaker 2: them ease into your, your life, your world, you know,
Speaker 2: is something that I think would reassure men a lot.
Speaker 1: On that note in a relationship, if you had to,
Speaker 1: let's say, you know, reassure your partner sometimes I feel and,
Speaker 1: and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's bad or anything, reassurance is important, but
Speaker 1: sometimes you could feel like you are answerable to someone
Speaker 1: or you have to like report to someone and that
Speaker 1: is our responsibility if we are in a relationship. Yes,
Speaker 1: I get that. But does it then take away a
Speaker 1: little bit of your independence in that sense? This is tricky.
Speaker 1: I can see how
Speaker 1: one might feel a little bit less independent, but just
Speaker 1: because they suddenly have to keep telling someone about what's
Speaker 1: going on in their lives. And you, especially if you're
Speaker 1: so used to just going about your day changing your
Speaker 1: plans as you wish. And then suddenly you've got to
Speaker 1: fill someone in, I guess the difference is that
Speaker 1: when you commit to a relationship, there are certain things
Speaker 1: that you give up and maybe a part of the
Speaker 1: things that you give up is a bit of your
Speaker 1: independence and it's not a bad thing. I feel like
Speaker 1: it is just being considerate for your partner. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you need to rely on someone. But what
Speaker 1: you need now is to be accountable to someone, be
Speaker 1: thoughtful of the person that you,
Speaker 2: I, I, I don't completely agree with the fact that
Speaker 2: you need to give up something. So it's not, not
Speaker 2: necessarily a giving up of your independence. It's more of like,
Speaker 2: um, getting your partner to be able to understand what
Speaker 2: you do. So this accountability is not just to let
Speaker 2: your partner know what you do, but it's also to
Speaker 2: earn their trust. And we, a good example is like,
Speaker 2: for example, with our parents, we will eventually reach a
Speaker 2: point in our life where they trust us enough that
Speaker 2: we don't need to account for everything that we
Speaker 1: do. It's true. I mean, ever since I moved out
Speaker 1: and live on
Speaker 1: my own, it's not the same dynamic anymore. Like we
Speaker 1: used to, it used to be like, what time you
Speaker 1: coming home or like, blah, blah, blah. But now it's
Speaker 1: more of like, I just update them kind of ok
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's
Speaker 2: not something that happens overnight. You see, and I think
Speaker 2: the same has to be applied to your partner if
Speaker 2: you are someone who lives a very independent life
Speaker 2: to get them to understand and trust you to a
Speaker 2: certain extent, uh it doesn't come at, it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to come as, as a, as a sacrifice to your independence.
Speaker 2: It is more of you being able to balance your
Speaker 2: independence and understanding that right now, commitment also has a
Speaker 2: priority in your life. So if you have this understanding
Speaker 2: and respect for the level of commitment,
Speaker 2: you would be able to reassure your partner at the,
Speaker 2: at the level that you can afford to without sacrificing
Speaker 2: your independence. So I don't necessarily believe that it has
Speaker 2: to be at the expense of your independence, but in
Speaker 2: the
Speaker 1: event that John, if you had to, you know, constantly
Speaker 1: update your partner or almost like I have to report
Speaker 1: my whereabouts or whatever, would that make you feel emasculated
Speaker 1: to any sort of extent, if you are answering to
Speaker 1: this person, she
Speaker 1: the wind kind of thing. I, I,
Speaker 2: I will not feel emasculated because I feel that the
Speaker 2: relationship has to take a certain priority in real life.
Speaker 2: And if you are not able to sort of like,
Speaker 2: kind of have that level of communication, you know, because I,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that, that, that I have no limit. Right.
Speaker 2: There has to be a limit of for my tolerance
Speaker 2: as well. If things get a little bit to our
Speaker 2: hand and this person is asking me for too much,
Speaker 2: you know, and stuff like that, then you will have
Speaker 2: to
Speaker 2: answer the question within yourself, whether this relationship is good
Speaker 2: for you. You know, it doesn't always have to be
Speaker 2: emasculating for it to be bad. It may be a
Speaker 2: dynamic that you can never reassure someone enough. And that
Speaker 2: is clearly a relationship that is not cut out for
Speaker 2: the both of you and that's fine. You know. So
Speaker 2: I don't think personally I would feel emasculated if I
Speaker 2: need to be someone that, that needs to be reporting
Speaker 2: to my partner. In fact, I do not mind reassuring
Speaker 2: my partner.
Speaker 2: Uh It's just that if this is taken too far, right?
Speaker 2: I would feel that instead of being emasculated, I just
Speaker 2: don't think this person would be good for me regardless
Speaker 2: of how strong, independent, attractive, whatever they are. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no matter how hard she
Speaker 2: is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, hotness is hotness is just the cherry,
Speaker 2: the icing on the cake, you know, it's
Speaker 1: what's inside.
Speaker 2: It's way more important. Right?
Speaker 1: Ok. Good to know. Good to know. I'm not shallow.
Speaker 1: Is that what you with any hot single friends
Speaker 1: on the single friends? He, he's just looking on the,
Speaker 1: on the street.
Speaker 2: You can think of it as really ratchet. It could
Speaker 2: just be me looking for someone who is worth my time. Oh,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 1: John dropping him is another one liner before. So in
Speaker 1: conclusion and in just a few words, if you can,
Speaker 1: what does it take for a man to date a
Speaker 1: strong independent woman?
Speaker 1: Huh? Yeah. To start,
Speaker 2: I'll start. I, I have an answer already. So firstly, firstly,
Speaker 2: I think men absolutely should date strong independent women and
Speaker 2: strong independent women should absolutely date people who they think
Speaker 2: are not, you know, OK, they don't need to think
Speaker 2: who are not at the same level. Uh But the
Speaker 2: most important
Speaker 2: thing is to recognize that this strong independent person, right?
Speaker 2: Especially if it's in their career, you know, that's not
Speaker 2: the entirety of their personality, you know, understand that just
Speaker 2: because someone is hyper successful in one aspect of their life,
Speaker 2: that does not mean that's the entirety. So don't be
Speaker 2: intimidated or box them in and
Speaker 2: just go for it, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think something that I always am appreciative of
Speaker 1: when I see people Right. Uh, is when they are
Speaker 1: patient with me and they understand that sometimes my schedule
Speaker 1: is packed
Speaker 1: and they try and slot themselves in at times that
Speaker 1: is favorable to my schedule as well so that we
Speaker 1: still get pockets of time together. But, um, it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like I have to carve out a big bunch
Speaker 1: of my time just to, um, make it in time
Speaker 1: for a date, something like that. So I think um
Speaker 1: what it takes patience and um open mindedness and a
Speaker 1: sense of
Speaker 1: uh self just being secure about yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you this like just a side note. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you find in the simple pleasures like
Speaker 1: just having a quick coffee or a quick drink in
Speaker 1: case you know, we've got too busy schedules that can
Speaker 1: be
Speaker 1: very fulfilling compared to like we have to do an
Speaker 1: activity like, yeah, so I I I agree. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening to this episode of men. Explain
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Speaker 1: Mhm.