1 00:00:06,730 --> 00:00:10,130 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the hotpot where we hop into 2 00:00:10,140 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: different parts of spaces people find themselves in during life's transitions. 3 00:00:14,529 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: My name is Nick. I'm 4 00:00:15,850 --> 00:00:18,549 Speaker 2: Q, I'm Joey. And today we have a very special 5 00:00:18,559 --> 00:00:19,619 Speaker 2: guest said, 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:22,649 Speaker 2: please introduce yourself. 7 00:00:22,819 --> 00:00:26,879 Speaker 1: I'm Sam. I am a talent managed by but I 8 00:00:27,020 --> 00:00:28,979 Speaker 1: think she does more than that. She does more than that, 9 00:00:29,409 --> 00:00:29,739 Speaker 1: not just 10 00:00:30,430 --> 00:00:33,638 Speaker 2: actress, singer, content creator. 11 00:00:37,220 --> 00:00:42,459 Speaker 1: I thank you for boosting my ego guys. Indeed. So 12 00:00:42,509 --> 00:00:45,669 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us today, Sam. Today we are talking 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,439 Speaker 1: about a very interesting topic with Sam. 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,790 Speaker 1: Today's topic is when is a good time to break 15 00:00:52,799 --> 00:00:53,119 Speaker 1: up 16 00:00:54,110 --> 00:00:58,819 Speaker 1: with your job and how do we navigate this transition? 17 00:00:58,830 --> 00:01:01,930 Speaker 1: So let's dive into the juicy bits. When do you 18 00:01:01,939 --> 00:01:03,220 Speaker 1: know it's time to leave your job? 19 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:06,830 Speaker 1: Like what are some red flags or signs? 20 00:01:09,290 --> 00:01:10,980 Speaker 1: Nobody gonna say, OK, I'll 21 00:01:10,989 --> 00:01:15,190 Speaker 2: start, but I will prefer this and actually this whole 22 00:01:15,199 --> 00:01:18,279 Speaker 2: podcast by saying that choosing to leave your job is 23 00:01:18,290 --> 00:01:22,510 Speaker 2: a huge privilege. Not everyone has the privilege to choose 24 00:01:22,519 --> 00:01:26,129 Speaker 2: and like leave your job based on ethics and leave 25 00:01:26,139 --> 00:01:30,769 Speaker 2: based on reasons that are beyond very serious issues. OK? 26 00:01:31,015 --> 00:01:33,496 Speaker 2: Just take away the serious issues personally, for me, I 27 00:01:33,505 --> 00:01:35,595 Speaker 2: feel like it's time to leave your job. When you 28 00:01:35,606 --> 00:01:39,566 Speaker 2: spend most of your time resenting thing, you are doing 29 00:01:39,575 --> 00:01:42,636 Speaker 2: your tasks, you're always complaining about your job. You hit 30 00:01:42,646 --> 00:01:45,765 Speaker 2: into it with bitterness and then it, it trickles down 31 00:01:45,776 --> 00:01:48,945 Speaker 2: into your workflow and how you approach your work and 32 00:01:48,956 --> 00:01:51,146 Speaker 2: then it affects your work ethic. I think that's when 33 00:01:51,155 --> 00:01:52,865 Speaker 2: you should leave because then you 34 00:01:53,012 --> 00:01:56,241 Speaker 2: become a bad worker. Like for me, I will leave blameless. 35 00:01:56,611 --> 00:01:59,162 Speaker 2: I don't want to drag myself into the mess. 36 00:01:59,171 --> 00:02:03,092 Speaker 1: But there are also instances where it's good employer, good worker, 37 00:02:03,101 --> 00:02:07,582 Speaker 1: but just not the right, the right culture, culture, sometimes 38 00:02:07,592 --> 00:02:13,511 Speaker 1: it's the industry. So alignment of job. I think there 39 00:02:13,522 --> 00:02:14,861 Speaker 1: are a lot of variables. So like 40 00:02:15,419 --> 00:02:18,279 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's only like red flags. Sometimes it's 41 00:02:18,288 --> 00:02:20,918 Speaker 1: just not a right fit and then sometimes there's like 42 00:02:20,929 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: a push and I like to call like a push 43 00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: and pull factor. So, so maybe everything is going great 44 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 1: at your job. But then you know, maybe you got 45 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:30,229 Speaker 1: to offer another opportunity somewhere 46 00:02:30,559 --> 00:02:34,020 Speaker 1: you going to work overseas. I agree. You don't necessarily 47 00:02:34,029 --> 00:02:36,109 Speaker 1: need to have it bad or bad for you to 48 00:02:36,119 --> 00:02:38,669 Speaker 1: want to leave. It's more like what else is out there, 49 00:02:38,679 --> 00:02:41,979 Speaker 1: what else is out there? But I think some of 50 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:45,429 Speaker 1: the common signs will be things like if your mental 51 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,478 Speaker 1: and physical health are suffering, sense of belonging or like 52 00:02:49,490 --> 00:02:50,729 Speaker 1: the company culture 53 00:02:51,059 --> 00:02:54,728 Speaker 1: work life, balance, career growth and development. Are you learning 54 00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:59,419 Speaker 1: and then money? So, since we've talked about all the reasons, 55 00:02:59,429 --> 00:03:03,070 Speaker 1: let's talk about our own stories. I already spill some tea. 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,110 Speaker 2: I feel like my heart is racing my moment. 57 00:03:09,059 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, 58 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:13,869 Speaker 2: I have very incriminating evidence. 59 00:03:14,869 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: You're serious or not. 60 00:03:16,589 --> 00:03:20,509 Speaker 2: Um, ok. It's, I worked in an sme it was 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,809 Speaker 2: very toxic and it's my first time working 62 00:03:24,399 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 2: and a contract like that. Ok. You know, it's a 63 00:03:26,410 --> 00:03:29,630 Speaker 2: red flag when they say we are family, when they 64 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,410 Speaker 2: start blurring the lines between your job scope and then 65 00:03:33,419 --> 00:03:36,410 Speaker 2: you start having to do a lot more than you 66 00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:40,759 Speaker 2: are required to do contractually. And then the only thing 67 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:43,610 Speaker 2: that they hold against you is your commitment to the company. 68 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,649 Speaker 2: And I had a lot of moments where I had 69 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:47,509 Speaker 2: to question, 70 00:03:47,970 --> 00:03:51,979 Speaker 2: am I over sensitive? Is this normal? Am I being 71 00:03:51,990 --> 00:03:55,059 Speaker 2: a bad employee? Because I'm not giving my all. It 72 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:58,550 Speaker 2: took a lot for me to realize I don't own 73 00:03:58,559 --> 00:04:01,729 Speaker 2: shares if the company does. Well, I don't do well, 74 00:04:01,830 --> 00:04:05,199 Speaker 2: it's very dangerous when a boss takes advantage of the 75 00:04:05,210 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: hole they have on you to manipulate you in every situation. 76 00:04:09,460 --> 00:04:11,479 Speaker 2: Like it got very bad right to the point where when, 77 00:04:11,490 --> 00:04:14,470 Speaker 2: when all of us have talks with her before we 78 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: go into a meeting, 79 00:04:15,414 --> 00:04:17,295 Speaker 2: we need to write down what we're going to say 80 00:04:17,303 --> 00:04:21,834 Speaker 2: because if we don't, she will guess and manipulate us 81 00:04:21,845 --> 00:04:24,984 Speaker 2: to forget our problems and you end up coming out 82 00:04:24,994 --> 00:04:27,545 Speaker 2: of the conversation, feeling grateful for the job. That's how 83 00:04:27,595 --> 00:04:30,113 Speaker 2: bad it was. And I consider myself someone who is 84 00:04:30,125 --> 00:04:32,464 Speaker 2: very strong willed. I'm very clear on what I want, 85 00:04:32,725 --> 00:04:33,195 Speaker 2: but 86 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 2: they know how to play to your strengths. Like, oh, 87 00:04:35,809 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 2: you know, you're so great. That's why we think you 88 00:04:37,730 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: should do this. And then you're like, yeah, actually I 89 00:04:40,369 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: am great and I should bank on my potential to 90 00:04:42,609 --> 00:04:45,059 Speaker 2: do this for you. If not, it's wasted, right? And 91 00:04:45,070 --> 00:04:47,750 Speaker 2: then you come out of it. A week later, everyone 92 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,959 Speaker 2: gets into this haze where like, wait, but our original 93 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,769 Speaker 2: problem was not solved. Oh my gosh. And it's really 94 00:04:53,779 --> 00:04:56,109 Speaker 2: one of those things where it's very difficult to put 95 00:04:56,119 --> 00:04:58,909 Speaker 2: down on paper and create a strong case for yourself 96 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,428 Speaker 2: legally or not. They have every 97 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,940 Speaker 2: thing to combat, you 98 00:05:03,950 --> 00:05:06,540 Speaker 1: know, it makes it very important to draw your own boundaries. 99 00:05:06,549 --> 00:05:08,589 Speaker 1: If not, it's not going to be healthy for you 100 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,049 Speaker 1: in the long run most Singaporean 101 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: and got no hr even more. 102 00:05:17,670 --> 00:05:21,518 Speaker 1: So my story just to give some context. I was 103 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:25,079 Speaker 1: from uh one of my first few jobs. I was 104 00:05:25,089 --> 00:05:29,100 Speaker 1: in a media company. And one thing that I've always 105 00:05:29,690 --> 00:05:31,709 Speaker 1: agreed with myself is that I wouldn't stay at a 106 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: company for too long because I feel like I need, 107 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 1: I always have an expiry date, right? Ok. 108 00:05:36,524 --> 00:05:38,535 Speaker 1: It is too long, I think for my first job, 109 00:05:38,545 --> 00:05:41,493 Speaker 1: I told myself three years. Max. Ok, just because I 110 00:05:41,505 --> 00:05:45,334 Speaker 1: don't want to get too comfortable. Reason. Number two was because, er, 111 00:05:45,795 --> 00:05:50,684 Speaker 1: in terms of certain leadership and management styles and rules, 112 00:05:50,695 --> 00:05:55,184 Speaker 1: I was not super agreeable to certain things. Um 113 00:05:55,519 --> 00:05:58,250 Speaker 1: but it wasn't one of the major reasons. Ultimately, I 114 00:05:58,260 --> 00:06:00,899 Speaker 1: did love that place and also like the colleagues that 115 00:06:00,910 --> 00:06:04,589 Speaker 1: I met there. But the most important reason is because 116 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,250 Speaker 1: of my mental health. So at that point of time, 117 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:12,779 Speaker 1: I was also in a, an unhealthy relationship. So it 118 00:06:12,790 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: was a time where I had a little bit of depression. Yeah, 119 00:06:18,369 --> 00:06:21,519 Speaker 1: it was a very unhealthy relationship where there's like gas 120 00:06:21,529 --> 00:06:23,570 Speaker 1: lighting and, and 121 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:26,988 Speaker 1: I was arguing with the person that I was dating 122 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,809 Speaker 1: a lot. So, imagine coming to work every day or, 123 00:06:30,820 --> 00:06:33,769 Speaker 1: or just functioning as a normal person. Your headspace is 124 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: not there. My headspace was really at a very bad place, er, 125 00:06:37,769 --> 00:06:39,089 Speaker 1: to the point where 126 00:06:39,859 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: I had to see a therapist. Yeah. So that was 127 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:43,750 Speaker 1: my first time seeing a therapist and 128 00:06:44,380 --> 00:06:45,730 Speaker 1: at one point of time I really thought like, oh 129 00:06:45,738 --> 00:06:48,670 Speaker 1: my God, I got like, something's wrong with me because 130 00:06:48,678 --> 00:06:50,349 Speaker 1: I've never, I've never done that and it was such 131 00:06:50,359 --> 00:06:52,859 Speaker 1: a scary time. Like, I was so young and aside 132 00:06:52,869 --> 00:06:56,549 Speaker 1: from mental health I was falling sick every month and 133 00:06:56,559 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: I believe that it was because of my mental health. Like, 134 00:07:00,010 --> 00:07:01,619 Speaker 1: you know, your mental health is just bad and then 135 00:07:01,630 --> 00:07:04,609 Speaker 1: your body just breaks down. So, so the reason for 136 00:07:04,619 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: why I left was because I had to prioritize myself 137 00:07:07,910 --> 00:07:11,540 Speaker 1: and I had to put my mental and physical health first. LA. Yeah. 138 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,119 Speaker 1: No job will be 139 00:07:13,589 --> 00:07:15,609 Speaker 1: before my own health, I think. 140 00:07:15,829 --> 00:07:19,950 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people underestimate the mental impact that a 141 00:07:19,959 --> 00:07:24,059 Speaker 2: bad place can have on your life, regardless of relationship 142 00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:27,290 Speaker 2: or work. It can really take a toll on your psyche. 143 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: I feel like any goodbye is not easy. Yeah. Even 144 00:07:31,170 --> 00:07:33,369 Speaker 1: if you are from a very good place or from 145 00:07:33,380 --> 00:07:35,380 Speaker 1: a nasty place where goodbye feels like we leave. Right. 146 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:37,519 Speaker 1: It's still not a nice goodbye. That's how I feel 147 00:07:37,529 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: about it. I know of people who leave their jobs 148 00:07:40,450 --> 00:07:41,779 Speaker 1: on a very good, 149 00:07:42,290 --> 00:07:45,519 Speaker 1: in a very good place. Like, they burn no bridges, 150 00:07:45,529 --> 00:07:47,279 Speaker 1: they just move on to a better place and, like 151 00:07:47,290 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 1: the previous company, wish them well. But this is because 152 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:52,079 Speaker 1: they are fortunate enough to have a company like that 153 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,519 Speaker 1: in the USA also. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, I'm going 154 00:07:55,529 --> 00:07:58,399 Speaker 1: to just share what's publicly known. So, if the audience, 155 00:07:58,410 --> 00:08:01,170 Speaker 1: if you all already followed my story, right. This wouldn't 156 00:08:01,179 --> 00:08:04,109 Speaker 1: be new news to you. LA, I just left because 157 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,190 Speaker 1: I didn't feel psychologically safe. 158 00:08:07,540 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Ah, it was media, which is something way out 159 00:08:12,609 --> 00:08:16,109 Speaker 1: of my own profession. Like I studied to be a teacher, 160 00:08:16,119 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, like, this was just something that came along 161 00:08:19,209 --> 00:08:22,420 Speaker 1: the way when I was trying to do early child advocacy. 162 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,750 Speaker 1: So this media company, it was fun, I tell you honestly. Right. 163 00:08:27,089 --> 00:08:29,470 Speaker 1: It was amazing. Like when I first started, it was, 164 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,179 Speaker 1: it was fun. Yeah, I was a fan of that. 165 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,099 Speaker 1: So everybody I met there was like, oh, you're a superstar, like, 166 00:08:36,109 --> 00:08:38,130 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm working with you now, you know, 167 00:08:38,140 --> 00:08:41,369 Speaker 1: but slowly evolved to like, yes, this is my job. 168 00:08:41,380 --> 00:08:44,619 Speaker 1: I'm not really here to play anymore. Yeah. So like 169 00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: whenever you remove that rosy lens of yours, right, you 170 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: start to see things clearly and you start to think 171 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:52,989 Speaker 1: for yourself also. So I never saw an issue until 172 00:08:53,059 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: things started to surface and then until I started to 173 00:08:55,770 --> 00:08:57,049 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. 174 00:08:57,460 --> 00:09:00,429 Speaker 1: So I guess that was my sign to leave whenever 175 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,059 Speaker 1: I felt a tinge of like, I feel like my 176 00:09:03,070 --> 00:09:06,380 Speaker 1: basic human right is a bit violated here. Then, then 177 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:08,909 Speaker 1: that's when I feel like anybody out there who's watching this, 178 00:09:08,919 --> 00:09:11,299 Speaker 1: if you feel like you're a bit violated in a sense, right? 179 00:09:11,309 --> 00:09:14,630 Speaker 1: Then you should think about it. Like, really sit down 180 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,949 Speaker 1: and pan down your thoughts and see if it's rational 181 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,630 Speaker 1: or not or if it's something that 182 00:09:21,039 --> 00:09:24,690 Speaker 1: you are struggling with emotionally yourself, then you cannot think straight. 183 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:28,890 Speaker 1: You know, I guess that's why I left. Basically. I 184 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,449 Speaker 1: felt like, uh 185 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: it wasn't right to stay. Yeah. And it's not like, oh, 186 00:09:34,450 --> 00:09:37,450 Speaker 1: there are better opportunities out there. That's why I want 187 00:09:37,460 --> 00:09:42,530 Speaker 1: to leave. Yeah. And unfortunately, my departure from the company 188 00:09:42,539 --> 00:09:46,789 Speaker 1: was alongside many other departures in the company. How much 189 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:49,770 Speaker 1: did it affect you and how long did it take 190 00:09:49,780 --> 00:09:52,150 Speaker 1: you to recover from that week? 191 00:09:52,219 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: Very honest. Right. I think deep down I haven't fully recovered. 192 00:09:56,049 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: So it still, it still comes back to me here 193 00:10:00,729 --> 00:10:04,270 Speaker 1: and there. But I feel like I gain more than 194 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,250 Speaker 1: I lost a lot more takeaways. A lot more take 195 00:10:07,260 --> 00:10:11,950 Speaker 1: away in a sense, right? I am way more appreciative 196 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,190 Speaker 1: and grateful for 197 00:10:13,599 --> 00:10:16,950 Speaker 1: people that come along. I had a conversation with one 198 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,478 Speaker 1: of my friends, right? We were from, we experienced the 199 00:10:20,489 --> 00:10:23,369 Speaker 1: same negative things before and now that we are in 200 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:27,270 Speaker 1: a better place. It's like night and day. No, we 201 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,830 Speaker 1: look at each other and we say like, what is 202 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: this real and to other people? The thing is to 203 00:10:31,010 --> 00:10:34,739 Speaker 1: other people within that good space, right? It's normal. Yeah. 204 00:10:35,159 --> 00:10:39,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. But to us it's like, wow. Yeah. So I 205 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: think that that is what you gain from experiencing the 206 00:10:42,570 --> 00:10:44,059 Speaker 1: negatives in life. 207 00:10:45,419 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: The question Paul 208 00:10:47,419 --> 00:10:50,059 Speaker 2: Commercial break Sam, you are our guest. You get to 209 00:10:50,070 --> 00:10:53,229 Speaker 2: pick first, you can pick a question and answer. 210 00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:57,989 Speaker 1: Don't think what's the best piece of advice you've ever 211 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,460 Speaker 1: been given? But this one cannot help thing. First 212 00:11:02,469 --> 00:11:02,780 Speaker 2: thing I 213 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,539 Speaker 1: live by faith. Not by side. Yeah. No clapping. No. OK. 214 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,468 Speaker 1: I don't mind the club live by faith. Not by side. 215 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,609 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. What are you looking forward to 216 00:11:15,619 --> 00:11:20,369 Speaker 1: this week. So tomorrow I think I can sleep seven hours. 217 00:11:20,619 --> 00:11:23,729 Speaker 1: That's a solid number of hours. And I'm hoping that 218 00:11:23,739 --> 00:11:25,820 Speaker 1: on top of that, I will be able to drink 219 00:11:25,830 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: three liters of water is healthy living. That's what you're 220 00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:33,770 Speaker 1: looking forward to sleep. Seven hours and sleep and hydration. 221 00:11:33,789 --> 00:11:35,250 Speaker 1: It's a very 29 9 gang. 222 00:11:38,099 --> 00:11:43,530 Speaker 1: I, I, what was your childhood dream job? I want 223 00:11:43,539 --> 00:11:47,429 Speaker 1: to be a singer. And why are you? Why are 224 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,479 Speaker 1: you not? You not good enough? 225 00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: Is caning is good or not? Who in this room 226 00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:56,109 Speaker 2: would you want to travel with 227 00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:58,830 Speaker 1: wholesome vibes? 228 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,479 Speaker 1: Fun but chaotic. 229 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: OK. I want to pick you only because like you 230 00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:06,799 Speaker 2: might just say yes to me because you want to 231 00:12:06,809 --> 00:12:08,159 Speaker 2: be nice and she will say no to 232 00:12:08,169 --> 00:12:11,809 Speaker 1: me. Yeah, but I'm fun just to let you know. OK. 233 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:15,130 Speaker 1: So now let's hop back to the episode. 234 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:18,530 Speaker 1: I know you said that you are still dealing with 235 00:12:18,539 --> 00:12:20,950 Speaker 1: it now, right? But do you have any tips for 236 00:12:21,059 --> 00:12:24,500 Speaker 1: maybe like younger people or first job and things like 237 00:12:24,510 --> 00:12:26,530 Speaker 1: that in a toxic workplace or who have left the 238 00:12:26,539 --> 00:12:29,590 Speaker 1: toxic workplace? A bit traumatized? How do you deal with 239 00:12:29,599 --> 00:12:33,179 Speaker 1: that or like recover from that? You only have one 240 00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:37,460 Speaker 1: life like really you only live once when you die, 241 00:12:37,469 --> 00:12:40,069 Speaker 1: you're going to be replaced no matter how great you are. 242 00:12:40,250 --> 00:12:44,010 Speaker 1: If you don't prioritize your own well being, 243 00:12:45,109 --> 00:12:48,659 Speaker 1: then you cannot take care of anybody around you. Yeah. 244 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:51,449 Speaker 1: Then you just never grow out of it. Actually, that's 245 00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:53,919 Speaker 1: a very interesting point because I met so many friends 246 00:12:53,929 --> 00:12:56,789 Speaker 1: who always complain about, like, work and things like that. 247 00:12:56,799 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: They are not happy. But then 248 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,250 Speaker 1: when you ask them, like, oh, why have you left? Right? 249 00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:02,659 Speaker 1: They will say like, oh, no, it's not my team check. 250 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,210 Speaker 1: Then I'm like, it's not your problem thing. Yeah. So 251 00:13:06,219 --> 00:13:08,750 Speaker 1: to me it is two different things. One is like, 252 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,739 Speaker 1: it's not really your problem because like this situation, if it's, 253 00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:15,419 Speaker 1: if it's, if it's like at a point where everything 254 00:13:15,429 --> 00:13:17,700 Speaker 1: is reliant on you, right, then there's something wrong with 255 00:13:17,710 --> 00:13:20,549 Speaker 1: that system or that process. And then the second thing 256 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,010 Speaker 1: is like, 257 00:13:21,409 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: you don't see yourself two ups, you are replaceable. So yeah, 258 00:13:25,719 --> 00:13:28,770 Speaker 1: like you are a gear in the machine and I 259 00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:30,650 Speaker 1: think the longer you stay at the place where it's 260 00:13:30,659 --> 00:13:34,099 Speaker 1: not meant for you, I feel like your potential is 261 00:13:34,109 --> 00:13:40,218 Speaker 1: not reached, you're wasting your potential for, for someone else. 100%. 262 00:13:40,309 --> 00:13:42,489 Speaker 1: What are some of the good things about your current 263 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: place now that you like? And it is open to everyone. 264 00:13:46,539 --> 00:13:49,348 Speaker 1: Just my own experience. I cannot speak for everybody in 265 00:13:49,359 --> 00:13:50,059 Speaker 1: the company. 266 00:13:50,789 --> 00:13:56,130 Speaker 1: Um I feel psychologically safe. Yeah. To do what I 267 00:13:56,140 --> 00:13:59,299 Speaker 1: want to do. Yeah. And I know that I can 268 00:13:59,309 --> 00:14:02,309 Speaker 1: trust these people. Yeah. It took me a pretty long 269 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,579 Speaker 1: time to eventually settle to sign the contract because 270 00:14:06,130 --> 00:14:09,858 Speaker 1: I was so fearful of contracts. But the leaders, they 271 00:14:09,869 --> 00:14:12,939 Speaker 1: are amazing. I know that they are genuinely happy for 272 00:14:12,950 --> 00:14:16,260 Speaker 1: me when I achieve and they will work together with 273 00:14:16,270 --> 00:14:20,570 Speaker 1: me constructively when I fail. Yeah, so that environment I 274 00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:23,979 Speaker 1: I really, really appreciate. Yeah, it feels like 275 00:14:24,590 --> 00:14:27,590 Speaker 1: I've been blessed multifold because of what was taken away 276 00:14:27,599 --> 00:14:37,590 Speaker 1: from me, like maybe two hour lunch break lap, honestly, 277 00:14:37,599 --> 00:14:40,549 Speaker 1: good culture and colleagues. But the most important actually, I 278 00:14:40,559 --> 00:14:44,460 Speaker 1: sometimes think that good colleagues will make me stay even 279 00:14:44,469 --> 00:14:44,719 Speaker 1: if it's 280 00:14:46,794 --> 00:14:50,284 Speaker 1: I feel like you have something to share good colleagues. 281 00:14:50,294 --> 00:14:53,184 Speaker 1: I feel like my working style and what I look 282 00:14:53,195 --> 00:14:55,945 Speaker 1: out for and what I value these days tend to 283 00:14:55,955 --> 00:14:59,434 Speaker 1: have me gravitating more towards larger companies. And MN CS 284 00:14:59,445 --> 00:15:03,695 Speaker 1: now of course, bare basics, right? Just basic processes like 285 00:15:03,705 --> 00:15:05,434 Speaker 1: your hr finance and things like that 286 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,039 Speaker 1: do not have to worry about things like that is 287 00:15:09,049 --> 00:15:13,349 Speaker 1: a blessing. Like, you know, you got insurance, you know, 288 00:15:13,359 --> 00:15:15,950 Speaker 1: like you have how many days of leave? Like if you, 289 00:15:16,159 --> 00:15:17,909 Speaker 1: you will get what and things like that, all of 290 00:15:17,919 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: those things are 291 00:15:19,169 --> 00:15:22,140 Speaker 1: quite important and I think are very commonly overlooked when 292 00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:25,380 Speaker 1: you are younger, young time like fun this job, I 293 00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:27,219 Speaker 1: just go then you don't see how many days of 294 00:15:27,229 --> 00:15:29,130 Speaker 1: leave they give you. They don't, you don't see a 295 00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:32,260 Speaker 1: lot of things like that. So it's a tricky thing 296 00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:35,969 Speaker 1: trying to balance all these different things, but it helps to, like, 297 00:15:35,979 --> 00:15:37,719 Speaker 1: what I did was I listed out everything. 298 00:15:37,979 --> 00:15:41,830 Speaker 1: Then I give, like, percentage rate pros and cons what 299 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: is most important to me. And then after that, that's 300 00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:48,710 Speaker 1: how I steered my career. Was that one of the 301 00:15:48,719 --> 00:15:51,229 Speaker 1: reasons for why you left? Yeah, I think so. I 302 00:15:51,299 --> 00:15:53,510 Speaker 1: think Sam put it in quite a good way. 303 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:57,429 Speaker 1: Sometimes you feel like your basic rights are not being 304 00:15:57,479 --> 00:16:00,849 Speaker 1: respected and things like that, especially in Singapore. I feel 305 00:16:00,859 --> 00:16:04,349 Speaker 1: like we have a very like I just kind of culture, right? 306 00:16:04,359 --> 00:16:06,659 Speaker 1: I just put up with it because I think our parents, 307 00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: our parents like their tolerance levels were super high, like 308 00:16:10,409 --> 00:16:13,429 Speaker 1: they can be in a miserable workplace for 20 years 309 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,289 Speaker 1: and then they don't complain, they will still stay. But 310 00:16:15,299 --> 00:16:17,559 Speaker 1: I wanted to add to that, you know, because I've 311 00:16:17,570 --> 00:16:20,539 Speaker 1: heard so many stories of the very young, like the 312 00:16:20,549 --> 00:16:23,349 Speaker 1: younger generation now, right? They will drop hop so often 313 00:16:23,359 --> 00:16:24,049 Speaker 1: and it's just 314 00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:27,450 Speaker 1: too short a period that they are inside. So if 315 00:16:27,460 --> 00:16:30,130 Speaker 1: you're watching this and you immediately feel like everything is 316 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:32,659 Speaker 1: like my basic right is violated, right? Sometimes you have to, 317 00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: you must, yeah, it's true. It's true. If you go 318 00:16:37,849 --> 00:16:40,789 Speaker 1: through like six or seven different jobs and each one 319 00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:45,109 Speaker 1: cannot probation, you also don't want to pass right, then 320 00:16:46,010 --> 00:16:46,409 Speaker 1: need to 321 00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:52,239 Speaker 2: just taking on that very quickly. Right? There's like five 322 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:55,260 Speaker 2: main things and it's very rare that you'll hit off 323 00:16:55,270 --> 00:16:58,559 Speaker 2: five So you hit at least three of credit. Yeah. 324 00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:01,710 Speaker 2: So one is distance. How far you travel to your job? 325 00:17:02,020 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 2: The actual job, your boss, your colleagues and your pay, 326 00:17:07,578 --> 00:17:10,749 Speaker 1: counting mine. What if one is obscenely good? Then the 327 00:17:10,888 --> 00:17:14,889 Speaker 1: rest the rest don't have, for example, the pay, the 328 00:17:14,898 --> 00:17:17,139 Speaker 1: pay you 50 K a month but then everything else 329 00:17:17,148 --> 00:17:17,338 Speaker 1: then 330 00:17:17,749 --> 00:17:20,629 Speaker 2: a month, three hours on the MRI will do 331 00:17:20,638 --> 00:17:24,808 Speaker 1: it then to to colleagues 34 hours 332 00:17:25,698 --> 00:17:26,909 Speaker 2: a month to go back to 333 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,918 Speaker 1: for three months. Oh my God. So I will do 334 00:17:33,928 --> 00:17:34,489 Speaker 1: that then I will. 335 00:17:36,689 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: So just now I still say like no job will 336 00:17:38,369 --> 00:17:39,540 Speaker 1: be before my mental health. 337 00:17:43,099 --> 00:17:46,050 Speaker 2: Ok. So now you've decided to leave, right? How do 338 00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:46,750 Speaker 2: you quit 339 00:17:47,329 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 1: Joey? Confirm let environmentally friendly you guys 340 00:17:54,619 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 2: letter as in you violently press the send on your 341 00:17:58,415 --> 00:17:58,704 Speaker 1: I read 342 00:17:59,354 --> 00:18:00,784 Speaker 2: before. It's like, wow, 343 00:18:01,025 --> 00:18:04,135 Speaker 1: ok. So for me, there was this one job that 344 00:18:04,145 --> 00:18:06,395 Speaker 1: I had and it was only like six months because 345 00:18:06,405 --> 00:18:10,584 Speaker 1: the culture was really off and just the whole alignment 346 00:18:10,594 --> 00:18:13,234 Speaker 1: of what I was expected to do and what actually 347 00:18:13,244 --> 00:18:16,474 Speaker 1: happened was totally different. I felt like I was wasting 348 00:18:16,484 --> 00:18:18,744 Speaker 1: my potential at a place that didn't really like 349 00:18:19,099 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: appreciate my four of my specialization. So eventually I just decided, oh, 350 00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:26,270 Speaker 1: I'm just going to leave man with no with no 351 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,050 Speaker 1: plan and I just sent an email. How very mal 352 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:31,829 Speaker 1: of you it is very millennial of me. Actually, both 353 00:18:31,839 --> 00:18:34,079 Speaker 1: my jobs. Ok. I'm going to say that I was 354 00:18:34,089 --> 00:18:36,069 Speaker 1: very privileged to just, you know. 355 00:18:36,694 --> 00:18:40,754 Speaker 1: Yeah, but obviously I always had a plan in terms of, 356 00:18:40,765 --> 00:18:44,474 Speaker 1: you know, my savings, I wouldn't leave without having proper savings, 357 00:18:44,665 --> 00:18:47,604 Speaker 1: but I didn't leave with a plan in terms of 358 00:18:47,614 --> 00:18:50,795 Speaker 1: my next job. So actually, before you even talk about 359 00:18:50,805 --> 00:18:53,214 Speaker 1: the resignation, I think you really need to make that 360 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: you really need to make peace with the fact that ok, 361 00:18:55,770 --> 00:18:58,010 Speaker 1: I have decided I am leaving, then you need to 362 00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:01,449 Speaker 1: have a proper exit strategy. So guys don't just like 363 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,810 Speaker 1: quit without, without thinking it through for everyone. It's different. 364 00:19:05,819 --> 00:19:08,459 Speaker 1: Like the exit strategy is different. There's no like one 365 00:19:08,469 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: size fit or checklist. I think 366 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,530 Speaker 2: it's always good too. If you have a safe space 367 00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:15,889 Speaker 2: with your manager or your boss to bring up your 368 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:18,010 Speaker 2: issues with them first, if it's pay 369 00:19:18,329 --> 00:19:20,579 Speaker 2: and you are actually very happy with the job and 370 00:19:20,589 --> 00:19:23,629 Speaker 2: you say like, you know, if there's any room for 371 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 2: a raise, it would get me to stay. But if 372 00:19:26,729 --> 00:19:29,109 Speaker 2: you can't, I fully respect that, you know, the company 373 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,089 Speaker 2: can't afford that. And then I'm just letting you know 374 00:19:31,099 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 2: that I will leave. So that's what I did. And 375 00:19:33,489 --> 00:19:36,060 Speaker 2: I actually got a raise that way. Another thing to 376 00:19:36,069 --> 00:19:39,899 Speaker 2: remember is your contract, please read your contract some notice 377 00:19:39,910 --> 00:19:42,438 Speaker 2: period are very long like I had them. 378 00:19:42,786 --> 00:19:44,145 Speaker 2: I'm like, ok, I'm going to write my letter. I've 379 00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:48,446 Speaker 2: never like really written a letter my life sent and 380 00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:50,615 Speaker 2: then I still had to stay for three more months. 381 00:19:50,625 --> 00:19:54,446 Speaker 1: Serving the notice period is painful when you really are 382 00:19:54,455 --> 00:19:57,895 Speaker 1: about to leave and when you're miserable, you have to 383 00:19:57,906 --> 00:20:00,505 Speaker 1: stay there for like, so I had to 384 00:20:00,515 --> 00:20:04,526 Speaker 2: kind of like, have some foresight and be like, ok, 385 00:20:04,536 --> 00:20:06,635 Speaker 2: I don't think I can do this for another 386 00:20:06,722 --> 00:20:09,702 Speaker 2: six months because three months is the minimum you need 387 00:20:09,712 --> 00:20:12,052 Speaker 2: to hold on for. Can I stay on for more 388 00:20:12,061 --> 00:20:13,751 Speaker 2: than three months? No, then you better tender. 389 00:20:13,761 --> 00:20:16,650 Speaker 1: Now on that note, right? The contract, I realized that 390 00:20:16,661 --> 00:20:20,811 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't read properly. Yeah, like especially 391 00:20:20,821 --> 00:20:23,102 Speaker 1: when you are again earlier on in your career, you 392 00:20:23,112 --> 00:20:27,102 Speaker 1: assume that I stand on, I just signed, but you 393 00:20:27,112 --> 00:20:29,052 Speaker 1: really need to read properly. If you are in your 394 00:20:29,061 --> 00:20:32,192 Speaker 1: first job, you get your first employment contract. 395 00:20:32,479 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: Mom website is super detailed. They will tell you what 396 00:20:36,209 --> 00:20:38,969 Speaker 1: is the standard in Singapore. How many days of leave 397 00:20:38,979 --> 00:20:41,958 Speaker 1: you are supposed to have your hospitalization leave. How many 398 00:20:41,969 --> 00:20:45,469 Speaker 1: MC days if you work, how many hours they need 399 00:20:45,479 --> 00:20:47,889 Speaker 1: to pay you? How much if you, you got ot 400 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:49,819 Speaker 1: or no t all these kind of things, right? Please 401 00:20:49,829 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: check against the mom website and make sure that you 402 00:20:52,569 --> 00:20:57,030 Speaker 1: are not getting shafted essentially. And the two most important 403 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,659 Speaker 1: times where you need to read your employment contract is 404 00:20:58,670 --> 00:21:00,829 Speaker 1: before you sign it. And then when you're going to quit. 405 00:21:01,130 --> 00:21:04,859 Speaker 2: Yes. The, my website saved a lot of us. Like, 406 00:21:04,989 --> 00:21:07,390 Speaker 2: so I have a friend who tried to buy themselves 407 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,550 Speaker 2: out of the contract because you can, if you don't 408 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,910 Speaker 2: want to serve your full notice, period, you just pay 409 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,609 Speaker 2: your salary for the, maybe two months. Yeah, 410 00:21:15,089 --> 00:21:17,930 Speaker 2: the employers actually refuse. They're like, no, we're not going 411 00:21:17,939 --> 00:21:20,589 Speaker 2: to let you buy yourself out and then upon reading 412 00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:24,349 Speaker 2: the contract more thoroughly and cross checking on the mom website. 413 00:21:24,869 --> 00:21:27,619 Speaker 2: She was like, no, actually I can buy myself out 414 00:21:27,630 --> 00:21:30,890 Speaker 2: because the contract doesn't bar me from buying out. 415 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,219 Speaker 1: A lot of employers don't even know what is your 416 00:21:34,229 --> 00:21:36,949 Speaker 1: legal right? As an employer and an employee. But I 417 00:21:36,969 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: feel like they would know 418 00:21:42,579 --> 00:21:45,810 Speaker 1: you call your bluff as you need to call their bluff. 419 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:51,290 Speaker 1: So usually the larger companies in my experience, it really 420 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:54,060 Speaker 1: is quite standard because they know they don't want to 421 00:21:54,069 --> 00:21:57,310 Speaker 1: risk lawsuits and things like that. But the smaller shops, 422 00:21:57,579 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: they will really try one anyhow clauses in there non compete. 423 00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:05,709 Speaker 1: You can work in Singapore for two years. You can 424 00:22:05,719 --> 00:22:09,050 Speaker 1: all work for competitor for five years. No compete. One 425 00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:14,420 Speaker 1: was confusing for me. So I asked a few friends 426 00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:19,948 Speaker 1: before like lawyers like labor lawyers. It's very hard to 427 00:22:19,959 --> 00:22:23,369 Speaker 1: enforce in Singapore. But a lot of times companies will 428 00:22:23,380 --> 00:22:27,780 Speaker 1: still put inside there and the more unreasonable or ridiculous 429 00:22:27,790 --> 00:22:29,260 Speaker 1: it is like why you cannot work two years, three 430 00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:30,010 Speaker 1: years kind of thing 431 00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:35,349 Speaker 1: then the even more unenforceable it is. Yeah. So just 432 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: a heads up. Another thing is if you leave with grievances, right. 433 00:22:38,170 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: Don't air your dirty laundry like online, they do way 434 00:22:43,209 --> 00:22:46,609 Speaker 1: more harm than good. Are we airing our dirty laundry 435 00:22:46,619 --> 00:22:51,050 Speaker 1: right now? No. Quite big for Sam. I think 436 00:22:52,439 --> 00:22:53,630 Speaker 1: I'm so worried now. 437 00:22:54,189 --> 00:22:57,209 Speaker 2: No, I think it's important that we share because when 438 00:22:57,219 --> 00:22:59,369 Speaker 2: I was leaving I kept googling a lot of things 439 00:22:59,380 --> 00:23:03,939 Speaker 2: and I couldn't really find references. Yeah, like these things 440 00:23:03,949 --> 00:23:07,839 Speaker 2: can help someone make an informed decision, informed, not rare, 441 00:23:08,589 --> 00:23:11,819 Speaker 2: like a decision that, you know, for sure you are 442 00:23:11,829 --> 00:23:14,819 Speaker 2: comfortable with because not everyone has the same experience. 443 00:23:14,829 --> 00:23:16,989 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, don't go on to linkedin and make 444 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,430 Speaker 1: an angry post and tag your, 445 00:23:18,494 --> 00:23:22,365 Speaker 1: your colleagues that you don't like and like, yeah, screw you, man. 446 00:23:22,375 --> 00:23:25,446 Speaker 1: You made my life is over. I'm gone. No. LA 447 00:23:25,455 --> 00:23:28,206 Speaker 1: I think most people have the sense not to do that. 448 00:23:28,215 --> 00:23:30,865 Speaker 1: But the thing is even if you don't care about 449 00:23:30,875 --> 00:23:34,536 Speaker 1: your previous employers that you have left, what will your 450 00:23:34,546 --> 00:23:38,826 Speaker 1: next employers think? Hiring somebody that if they will be upset, right? 451 00:23:38,836 --> 00:23:41,056 Speaker 1: They will add their dirty laundry and they will post 452 00:23:41,066 --> 00:23:44,484 Speaker 1: on linkedin because it gives you like a 453 00:23:44,552 --> 00:23:47,682 Speaker 1: reputation as like, well, this person is a bit temperamental, 454 00:23:47,692 --> 00:23:50,202 Speaker 1: you know, so since we are talking about quitting our 455 00:23:50,212 --> 00:23:53,601 Speaker 1: jobs and the transitioning phase, are there any challenges and 456 00:23:53,612 --> 00:23:55,482 Speaker 1: obstacles that we need to prepare ourselves 457 00:23:55,491 --> 00:23:58,621 Speaker 2: for. I think the biggest thing and the one key 458 00:23:58,631 --> 00:24:03,362 Speaker 2: factor in like hindering your resignation is securing a paycheck. 459 00:24:03,371 --> 00:24:07,682 Speaker 1: How is your bank account looking? What is your monthly obligations? 460 00:24:07,692 --> 00:24:10,521 Speaker 1: You got car, you got kids, you got mortgage, 461 00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:13,069 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Obviously, the less of these things 462 00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:16,419 Speaker 1: you have then the more flexibility you have back then. 463 00:24:16,430 --> 00:24:18,819 Speaker 1: I for both my jobs that I left, I left 464 00:24:18,829 --> 00:24:22,540 Speaker 1: without a plan, I was young. So back then obviously 465 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:24,649 Speaker 1: you kind of still have your parents to back you 466 00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:28,380 Speaker 1: up for. But I have no responsibilities at that time 467 00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:33,209 Speaker 1: and I was like 23 2022. So I left without 468 00:24:33,219 --> 00:24:35,869 Speaker 1: a plan in terms of like savings. I just made 469 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: sure that I had like 3 to 6 months worth 470 00:24:38,410 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: of savings to last me to survive, you know, but 471 00:24:42,569 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: eventually at the third month mark panicked a bit, right? 472 00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: Like the bank account dropped a lot drop a little bit, 473 00:24:50,099 --> 00:24:53,180 Speaker 1: cannot take grab. Can I order food at that point? 474 00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:55,709 Speaker 1: I didn't do much. They just stay in the room 475 00:24:55,719 --> 00:24:56,839 Speaker 1: and cry. Correct? 476 00:24:57,890 --> 00:25:00,550 Speaker 1: And then that's where you start looking for a job, 477 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,060 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I think uh you need to kind 478 00:25:03,069 --> 00:25:07,510 Speaker 1: of understand the timeline and hearing from different employers and 479 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: different companies will also take some time. You you cannot 480 00:25:10,050 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: expect that they will reply you in like what three days, 481 00:25:12,369 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: one week 482 00:25:12,814 --> 00:25:16,324 Speaker 1: it takes one month, you know. Yeah. So that's one thing, 483 00:25:16,334 --> 00:25:17,675 Speaker 1: I think that's the other thing, like a lot of 484 00:25:17,685 --> 00:25:20,324 Speaker 1: people after they leave, especially if they leave without a plan. Right. 485 00:25:20,415 --> 00:25:22,954 Speaker 1: Then they can, then they run into the next one, 486 00:25:23,655 --> 00:25:25,875 Speaker 1: the first job offer I get, I just take a 487 00:25:26,354 --> 00:25:27,395 Speaker 1: bit panicked. 488 00:25:27,989 --> 00:25:29,609 Speaker 1: Then you end up in this cycle of like, oh, 489 00:25:29,619 --> 00:25:31,170 Speaker 1: you end up in a job that you are not 490 00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:33,530 Speaker 1: happy with, then you go through the same thing again, 491 00:25:33,569 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: then you rush again. So take your time, like, really, like, 492 00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:41,629 Speaker 1: be practical and realistic about how much time do I have? Er, 493 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,839 Speaker 1: and don't rush into the next thing. But 494 00:25:43,849 --> 00:25:46,650 Speaker 2: actually for me, right, I left without a plan and 495 00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:47,899 Speaker 2: I left with no 496 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,729 Speaker 2: adequate savings. I knew that if I didn't leave, something 497 00:25:52,739 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 2: would give and similar to you, I just kept getting 498 00:25:55,729 --> 00:25:59,939 Speaker 2: sick mentally and I'm like, I don't have enough savings 499 00:25:59,949 --> 00:26:01,420 Speaker 2: to last me because they always say you need at 500 00:26:01,430 --> 00:26:04,780 Speaker 2: least six months, six months is a privilege. Some people 501 00:26:04,790 --> 00:26:07,239 Speaker 2: don't even have two months, you know, and like I 502 00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:10,709 Speaker 2: had big expenses coming up and I knew that 503 00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:12,829 Speaker 2: that money would go to that and I wouldn't have 504 00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:16,530 Speaker 2: enough saved up. But I chose to leave anyway because 505 00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:20,139 Speaker 2: I wasn't going to sacrifice my mental health anymore. Yeah. 506 00:26:20,150 --> 00:26:22,810 Speaker 2: And I think people put the pressure on themselves to 507 00:26:22,819 --> 00:26:26,770 Speaker 2: find a career immediately. But you can, if money is 508 00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:29,099 Speaker 2: truly the one issue, right, you can always get a 509 00:26:29,109 --> 00:26:32,099 Speaker 2: part time job to get your bare minimum sorted out. 510 00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:34,179 Speaker 2: You know, I mean, you don't have to put so 511 00:26:34,189 --> 00:26:36,780 Speaker 2: much pressure on yourself to find an immediate career that 512 00:26:36,790 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 2: you will advance. 513 00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:40,469 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, actually we all recommend having a side hustle 514 00:26:40,479 --> 00:26:42,290 Speaker 1: while you are working at your full time job. So, 515 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:44,829 Speaker 1: if anything happens to your full time job, at least 516 00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:47,949 Speaker 1: financially your side hustle, you still got a bit of 517 00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:52,510 Speaker 1: money can take, grab. Why? No, because we all have 518 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,500 Speaker 1: side hustles. Yeah. A 519 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,189 Speaker 2: lot of people do the side hustle thing because it's 520 00:26:55,199 --> 00:26:57,629 Speaker 2: their hobbies and if they can make you some extra cash, 521 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,630 Speaker 2: why not? Or it could be a reason why they 522 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,149 Speaker 2: decided to stay at their full time because this supplementary 523 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,010 Speaker 2: income makes up 524 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,369 Speaker 2: balance for them too. Yeah, 525 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,660 Speaker 1: it's all about mindset, man. You know, my husband once 526 00:27:08,670 --> 00:27:11,899 Speaker 1: told me that he doesn't mind getting a job that 527 00:27:11,910 --> 00:27:14,579 Speaker 1: he's not fully satisfied with, but he used that money 528 00:27:14,589 --> 00:27:19,229 Speaker 1: to satisfy himself. Oh, actually that's my mindset also. Not 529 00:27:19,239 --> 00:27:20,429 Speaker 1: everybody can, like, 530 00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:24,109 Speaker 1: you know, your passion, have your passion be your job 531 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: and then still be paid. Well, I feel like nowadays 532 00:27:26,689 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: I try to detach my personal hobbies and interests from work. Yeah. Ok. 533 00:27:32,689 --> 00:27:34,989 Speaker 1: So we talked about, you know, like quitting your job 534 00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:36,489 Speaker 1: when you draw the 535 00:27:36,569 --> 00:27:39,420 Speaker 1: line between when you should leave or when you should stay, er, 536 00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:42,458 Speaker 1: when you can tolerate and you can push through and 537 00:27:42,469 --> 00:27:45,079 Speaker 1: when you shouldn't. But you know, given the economy right now, 538 00:27:45,089 --> 00:27:48,270 Speaker 1: quitting may not be the best option for you and 539 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,260 Speaker 1: for everyone living in man. 540 00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:54,819 Speaker 1: But if you are listening and you identify as someone 541 00:27:54,829 --> 00:27:57,930 Speaker 1: who is also thinking of quitting, hope, we hope that 542 00:27:57,939 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, you will find mentorship, someone that you can 543 00:28:00,569 --> 00:28:03,790 Speaker 1: trust to really like walk this journey with you and 544 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,369 Speaker 1: to support you on this journey. Not not us. We 545 00:28:07,390 --> 00:28:10,948 Speaker 1: we as, as you are, we are growing with you 546 00:28:10,959 --> 00:28:19,609 Speaker 1: through the transitions in the spaces on the hotpot. 547 00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:23,458 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on the hot pot. You 548 00:28:23,469 --> 00:28:27,270 Speaker 2: can listen to us on Spotify Apple podcast and me. Listen. 549 00:28:27,410 --> 00:28:29,939 Speaker 2: And if you haven't already, please subscribe to us 550 00:28:30,349 --> 00:28:33,389 Speaker 1: and thank you Sam for joining us today. Thank you 551 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,109 Speaker 1: for having me. Ok. See you guys in the next episode. 552 00:28:36,939 --> 00:28:37,550 Speaker 1: Bye.