1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Hello there. CN A correspondent listeners, Steve LA here and 2 00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:04,849 Speaker 1: I hope this podcast finds you. Well as the end 3 00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:07,530 Speaker 1: of the year approaches, this is just a quick audio 4 00:00:07,539 --> 00:00:09,750 Speaker 1: note to say that all our podcast teams will be 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: taking a well deserved season break for the month of December. 6 00:00:12,829 --> 00:00:15,619 Speaker 1: So we thought we'd give you the opportunity to catch 7 00:00:15,630 --> 00:00:15,970 Speaker 1: up with 8 00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: some of our top performing episodes that you might have missed. 9 00:00:18,809 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: First up is this episode about Anwar Ibrahim and his 10 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:26,020 Speaker 1: long and winding road to becoming Malaysia's Prime Minister. You'll 11 00:00:26,030 --> 00:00:28,659 Speaker 1: hear from CN A correspondent, Melissa Goh and Afifa Avin 12 00:00:28,670 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: as we discussed his turbulent past, an uncertain future. 13 00:00:32,379 --> 00:00:34,729 Speaker 1: And on a personal note, it is with a great 14 00:00:34,738 --> 00:00:37,308 Speaker 1: sense of gratitude that my time at CN A has 15 00:00:37,319 --> 00:00:39,278 Speaker 1: come to an end. I'd like to thank you for 16 00:00:39,289 --> 00:00:41,578 Speaker 1: placing your trust in me over the last 11 plus 17 00:00:41,589 --> 00:00:44,858 Speaker 1: years across all of CNA'S platforms, especially here on CN 18 00:00:44,868 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: A correspondent. Take care and all the best for 2024. 19 00:00:48,528 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 20 00:00:55,099 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to CN A correspondent. I'm Steve LA. 21 00:00:58,369 --> 00:01:00,709 Speaker 1: And in this episode, we're going to take you behind 22 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: the scenes of an interview we had with Malaysia's Prime 23 00:01:03,409 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: Minister Anwar Ibrahim. 24 00:01:08,750 --> 00:01:12,300 Speaker 1: Those familiar voices you hear welcoming the Prime Minister belong 25 00:01:12,309 --> 00:01:15,750 Speaker 1: to our Malaysia correspondents, Melissa Goh and Afifa Arain who 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,419 Speaker 1: had a rare two on one interview with Mr Anwar 27 00:01:18,430 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: while he was in Singapore for the recent Milken Institute 28 00:01:21,089 --> 00:01:21,779 Speaker 1: Asia summit. 29 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,410 Speaker 1: They covered a range of topics including trust in the government, 30 00:01:25,459 --> 00:01:28,940 Speaker 1: the economic challenges faced and policies intended to address them 31 00:01:29,010 --> 00:01:32,089 Speaker 1: as well as the rise of Malay nationalist parties and 32 00:01:32,099 --> 00:01:37,910 Speaker 1: the growing economic and political divide in the country. Now, 33 00:01:37,919 --> 00:01:40,230 Speaker 1: I should say upfront that this interview with Mr Anwar 34 00:01:40,239 --> 00:01:42,980 Speaker 1: has already aired on CN A and it is available 35 00:01:42,989 --> 00:01:45,169 Speaker 1: on CN A dot Asia and our mobile app as 36 00:01:45,180 --> 00:01:46,379 Speaker 1: well as me watch as well. 37 00:01:46,669 --> 00:01:48,930 Speaker 1: So though we'll touch on some of the themes discussed, 38 00:01:48,940 --> 00:01:51,139 Speaker 1: we'll spend quite a bit of time giving you our 39 00:01:51,150 --> 00:01:54,129 Speaker 1: listeners a behind the scenes, look into how interviews like 40 00:01:54,139 --> 00:01:57,569 Speaker 1: this work and get our correspondents insight into a man 41 00:01:57,669 --> 00:02:00,989 Speaker 1: that has been a feature in Malaysian politics for over 42 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,239 Speaker 1: four decades. Melena FIFA. Thank you for joining me today. Hi, 43 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:04,739 Speaker 1: good morning, 44 00:02:04,750 --> 00:02:06,449 Speaker 2: good morning. Thank you for having us again. 45 00:02:06,970 --> 00:02:09,589 Speaker 1: OK. Who wants to go first? How did this interview happen? 46 00:02:09,610 --> 00:02:12,419 Speaker 1: Getting face time with the head of government doesn't happen 47 00:02:12,429 --> 00:02:15,059 Speaker 1: every day. Why don't you go first? We both were 48 00:02:15,070 --> 00:02:18,270 Speaker 1: told about the same time that our request was accepted, 49 00:02:18,940 --> 00:02:23,119 Speaker 2: man. He's very accessible approachable politician. The media has always 50 00:02:23,130 --> 00:02:25,210 Speaker 2: been able to doors stop him at any event. So 51 00:02:25,220 --> 00:02:29,070 Speaker 2: technically getting face time with him in Malaysia happens every day, 52 00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: but getting him to sit down with us for a 53 00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:33,109 Speaker 2: period of time. 54 00:02:33,207 --> 00:02:35,358 Speaker 2: Now, I think that was a challenge. It took a 55 00:02:35,367 --> 00:02:37,887 Speaker 2: lot of co ordination and planning. I know Mel has 56 00:02:37,897 --> 00:02:41,048 Speaker 2: been trying to chase him since he was appointed as 57 00:02:41,056 --> 00:02:44,498 Speaker 2: a prime minister last year. So that's about nine months 58 00:02:44,507 --> 00:02:49,067 Speaker 2: of us consistently chasing him down, chasing his team members down. 59 00:02:49,078 --> 00:02:51,536 Speaker 2: So a lot of persistence was needed and blocking out 60 00:02:51,548 --> 00:02:54,257 Speaker 2: a time slot with an himself was going to be 61 00:02:54,268 --> 00:02:57,507 Speaker 2: difficult because this is someone who in a day could 62 00:02:57,518 --> 00:02:59,348 Speaker 2: be in 23 place, 63 00:02:59,675 --> 00:03:04,305 Speaker 2: not even just places, sometimes different states or 23 countries even. 64 00:03:04,485 --> 00:03:06,345 Speaker 2: So we we're just glad to be able to catch 65 00:03:06,356 --> 00:03:09,065 Speaker 2: him and lock him down for about what, 30 minutes. 66 00:03:10,235 --> 00:03:12,225 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really good to listen to the interview and 67 00:03:12,235 --> 00:03:15,735 Speaker 1: Mel you've witnessed Mr Anwar's political journey for over two 68 00:03:15,746 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: decades now, from his prison sentence to his time as 69 00:03:19,005 --> 00:03:21,516 Speaker 1: opposition leader. And now Prime Minister, could you share with 70 00:03:21,526 --> 00:03:23,954 Speaker 1: us from a correspondent's point of view how he has 71 00:03:23,966 --> 00:03:25,235 Speaker 1: evolved over the years. 72 00:03:25,684 --> 00:03:28,383 Speaker 1: So I first covered him when he was Finance Minister, 73 00:03:28,393 --> 00:03:32,434 Speaker 1: Deputy Prime Minister to Dr Mali Mohammed. That's before all 74 00:03:32,444 --> 00:03:35,783 Speaker 1: the fallout that begun back then. He was also super 75 00:03:35,794 --> 00:03:40,143 Speaker 1: media friendly, articulate, always willing to speak to reporters, he 76 00:03:40,154 --> 00:03:43,843 Speaker 1: loved bathing in the media limelight and I guess that 77 00:03:43,854 --> 00:03:46,983 Speaker 1: hasn't changed about him even now as Prime Minister, he's 78 00:03:46,994 --> 00:03:50,113 Speaker 1: always willing to spare a few minutes with reporters covering 79 00:03:50,123 --> 00:03:51,824 Speaker 1: him on the ground despite 80 00:03:51,921 --> 00:03:55,692 Speaker 1: like you said, it's busy schedule, but scoring an interview, 81 00:03:55,701 --> 00:04:00,382 Speaker 1: that's a different thing altogether. But he's still him essentially approachable, people, friendly, 82 00:04:00,391 --> 00:04:04,932 Speaker 1: articulate flamboyant, even at times, very charismatic. And I would 83 00:04:04,942 --> 00:04:08,352 Speaker 1: say he stands tall among regional leaders and Afifi, you 84 00:04:08,361 --> 00:04:12,611 Speaker 1: trailed Mr Anwar on his nationwide campaign tours during the elections. 85 00:04:12,621 --> 00:04:15,332 Speaker 1: So you've seen him in various settings. Now, what went 86 00:04:15,341 --> 00:04:18,062 Speaker 1: through your mind when he arrived for the interview? 87 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,260 Speaker 2: I think one of the first things I noticed about 88 00:04:21,269 --> 00:04:23,820 Speaker 2: him that that particular morning was that he wasn't as 89 00:04:23,829 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: energetic as usual and maybe it's because of his packed schedule. 90 00:04:28,059 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: We know he landed in Singapore at 10:30 a.m. and 91 00:04:30,928 --> 00:04:33,219 Speaker 2: then from the airport, it was straight to the interview 92 00:04:33,309 --> 00:04:35,820 Speaker 2: to sit down with us. And then right after our interview, 93 00:04:35,829 --> 00:04:38,140 Speaker 2: he had to go for a panel at the Milken 94 00:04:38,149 --> 00:04:41,059 Speaker 2: Institute session. So perhaps that was it that 95 00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:44,049 Speaker 2: that's why he wasn't as energetic as he usually was. 96 00:04:44,059 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: The Prime Minister was also in the room with two 97 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:50,589 Speaker 2: correspondents grilling him. He came with his entourage which includes Ministers, 98 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,750 Speaker 2: Foreign Minister Zambri, as well as trade industry minister Zaf rule. 99 00:04:54,890 --> 00:04:57,890 Speaker 2: So the Prime Minister was essentially just alone with us 100 00:04:57,899 --> 00:05:00,510 Speaker 2: in the room. The rest of his entourage, we lock 101 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:02,510 Speaker 2: them up in the bedroom of the suite. And it 102 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:03,470 Speaker 2: was so funny because 103 00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister's photographer actually took some photos and it 104 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:10,540 Speaker 2: was the two ministers sitting so cozily together on the bed. 105 00:05:10,660 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: And then there were other pictures of them trying to 106 00:05:12,649 --> 00:05:16,070 Speaker 2: press their ears against the doors to listen to the interview. 107 00:05:16,209 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: But I did notice that he wasn't as energetic, but 108 00:05:19,209 --> 00:05:22,729 Speaker 2: as the interview continued, he got better. He got more 109 00:05:22,738 --> 00:05:25,869 Speaker 2: vibrant and his usual un self came out. 110 00:05:26,230 --> 00:05:27,849 Speaker 1: Ok. So it was a hotel room, was it? So 111 00:05:27,859 --> 00:05:29,779 Speaker 1: you had like the sort of office kind of area 112 00:05:29,790 --> 00:05:31,100 Speaker 1: then you had the bedroom area and it was all 113 00:05:31,109 --> 00:05:32,250 Speaker 1: partitioned off. Yeah. 114 00:05:32,260 --> 00:05:34,420 Speaker 2: So it was a suite and the living room area 115 00:05:34,428 --> 00:05:38,549 Speaker 2: was converted into the interview area. So everyone else was 116 00:05:38,559 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: chucked into the room. 117 00:05:41,059 --> 00:05:43,260 Speaker 1: I can just imagine all these very senior high ranking 118 00:05:43,269 --> 00:05:46,079 Speaker 1: officials all crammed together quite a sight. Now both of 119 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:48,519 Speaker 1: you are flown into Singapore. In fact, for this interview 120 00:05:48,529 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: with Mr Anwar, its not often we get two correspondents 121 00:05:51,850 --> 00:05:55,250 Speaker 1: putting questions to one prime minister. Could you shed some 122 00:05:55,260 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: light on the thought process behind the the questions that 123 00:05:57,769 --> 00:05:59,790 Speaker 1: you posed to him? And and how did you and 124 00:05:59,799 --> 00:06:02,469 Speaker 1: a FIFA go about deciding who asked what we know 125 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,709 Speaker 1: it's going to be tight because we promised half an 126 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: hour but with a back to back engagement 127 00:06:07,145 --> 00:06:10,816 Speaker 1: and all. So we split to three main areas focusing 128 00:06:10,825 --> 00:06:15,025 Speaker 1: on economic challenges. Afifa was asking him about response towards 129 00:06:15,036 --> 00:06:18,364 Speaker 1: his Madani economic narrative so far and I was pressing 130 00:06:18,376 --> 00:06:21,335 Speaker 1: him on the lofty targets as well under the new 131 00:06:21,346 --> 00:06:25,554 Speaker 1: industrial master plan and the energy transition road map that 132 00:06:25,565 --> 00:06:27,596 Speaker 1: he has announced to propel Malaysia to become a high 133 00:06:27,605 --> 00:06:30,565 Speaker 1: income nation and so on whether he has the resolve 134 00:06:30,575 --> 00:06:32,835 Speaker 1: to see it through and push through the tough 135 00:06:33,380 --> 00:06:37,731 Speaker 1: reforms to rationalize subsidies, for example, and lift the people's 136 00:06:37,742 --> 00:06:40,731 Speaker 1: wages now for all these things to go through, right? 137 00:06:40,782 --> 00:06:44,731 Speaker 1: Political stability is crucial. So Afifa then asked him about 138 00:06:44,742 --> 00:06:47,962 Speaker 1: whether he's distracted by the challenges on the political front 139 00:06:47,971 --> 00:06:52,140 Speaker 1: with opposition playing the race and religion card pre and 140 00:06:52,502 --> 00:06:55,011 Speaker 1: national has gained ground in a six state elections. It's 141 00:06:55,022 --> 00:06:57,872 Speaker 1: for all to see making inroads even in the Pakatan, 142 00:06:57,902 --> 00:06:59,141 Speaker 1: Harapan stronghold state 143 00:06:59,317 --> 00:07:02,308 Speaker 1: like Penang and L and Mr Anwar. He appeared to 144 00:07:02,317 --> 00:07:05,686 Speaker 1: be encouraged by the most recent series of by elections 145 00:07:05,697 --> 00:07:08,868 Speaker 1: in Johor. So he maintained that he has strong majority 146 00:07:08,877 --> 00:07:11,917 Speaker 1: in parliament adding that the people shouldn't be fixated with 147 00:07:11,928 --> 00:07:14,588 Speaker 1: his two thirds majority. It's not important. He still has 148 00:07:14,597 --> 00:07:19,678 Speaker 1: 147 MP support and that's two thirds is 148. So 149 00:07:19,687 --> 00:07:22,398 Speaker 1: he has a strong government the last 5, 10 minutes 150 00:07:22,578 --> 00:07:24,338 Speaker 1: api and I will just decided to get him to 151 00:07:24,347 --> 00:07:25,048 Speaker 1: talk about a 152 00:07:25,403 --> 00:07:29,364 Speaker 1: and how Malaysia navigate the tricky waters amid the intense 153 00:07:29,373 --> 00:07:32,253 Speaker 1: rivalry between us and China. Yeah. So much ground to 154 00:07:32,264 --> 00:07:35,574 Speaker 1: cover from the different topics that are relevant to Malaysians 155 00:07:35,584 --> 00:07:37,723 Speaker 1: and also of interest to the region as well. That 156 00:07:37,734 --> 00:07:40,343 Speaker 1: leads us nicely to the issues then that Malaysia is 157 00:07:40,354 --> 00:07:42,944 Speaker 1: facing and how Mr Anwar is looking into addressing them 158 00:07:42,954 --> 00:07:45,384 Speaker 1: and we'll get to them in part two. And our listeners, 159 00:07:45,394 --> 00:07:48,144 Speaker 1: you'll also get to hear what happened to Melina FIFA 160 00:07:48,153 --> 00:07:51,384 Speaker 1: as soon as Mr Anwar and his entourage left the room. 161 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,329 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 162 00:08:00,339 --> 00:08:02,660 Speaker 1: we're the host of a podcast called Work It If 163 00:08:02,670 --> 00:08:04,649 Speaker 1: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 164 00:08:04,660 --> 00:08:07,220 Speaker 1: to tap in. In the last 20 episodes. We've discussed 165 00:08:07,230 --> 00:08:10,459 Speaker 1: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 166 00:08:10,470 --> 00:08:13,070 Speaker 1: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 167 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:14,450 Speaker 1: values from you, which is 168 00:08:14,565 --> 00:08:18,184 Speaker 1: incidentally is our top performing episode. If what consumes your 169 00:08:18,195 --> 00:08:21,934 Speaker 1: life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress, 170 00:08:21,945 --> 00:08:25,695 Speaker 1: even office romance. This podcast should be on your list. 171 00:08:25,704 --> 00:08:28,894 Speaker 1: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 172 00:08:28,904 --> 00:08:31,825 Speaker 1: CN A or wherever you get your podcast. 173 00:08:40,169 --> 00:08:42,658 Speaker 1: You're back with CN A correspondent and for this companion 174 00:08:42,669 --> 00:08:45,098 Speaker 1: pod to our latest TV episode where Melissa go and 175 00:08:45,299 --> 00:08:48,568 Speaker 1: Afifa Arain sat down with Malaysia's Prime Minister Anwar. Ibrahim 176 00:08:48,749 --> 00:08:51,767 Speaker 1: Mr Anwar is the fifth prime Minister in five years 177 00:08:51,778 --> 00:08:55,429 Speaker 1: and after years of political scandals and upheaval, he's well 178 00:08:55,439 --> 00:08:59,338 Speaker 1: aware that trust in Malaysia's leadership won't come overnight. It 179 00:08:59,348 --> 00:09:04,249 Speaker 1: will take time because the the cynicism is due to 180 00:09:04,258 --> 00:09:08,629 Speaker 1: the failure of political leaders in the past 181 00:09:09,229 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: to prove that leadership must be accountable and, and corruption 182 00:09:14,729 --> 00:09:20,010 Speaker 1: cannot be deemed to be a system, a culture and systemic, 183 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,330 Speaker 1: which is the case in Malaysia. So it will take time. 184 00:09:23,770 --> 00:09:26,500 Speaker 1: A FIFA Mr Anwar says it will take time. He's 185 00:09:26,510 --> 00:09:29,469 Speaker 1: been in charge for 9, 10 months now. Does he 186 00:09:29,479 --> 00:09:32,039 Speaker 1: still have time? Is he winning over the electorate in 187 00:09:32,049 --> 00:09:33,710 Speaker 1: terms of trust in its leaders? 188 00:09:34,039 --> 00:09:36,819 Speaker 2: Well, he needs to address the trust deficit of this 189 00:09:36,830 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: Madani government and there's a long way to go. And 190 00:09:39,969 --> 00:09:43,260 Speaker 2: I think the Prime Minister himself understands that. But whether 191 00:09:43,270 --> 00:09:44,539 Speaker 2: he has the time 192 00:09:45,039 --> 00:09:47,859 Speaker 2: and whether he can stay on course, stay focused on 193 00:09:47,869 --> 00:09:51,469 Speaker 2: the policies and the reforms without getting distracted by domestic 194 00:09:51,479 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: politics is of course another thing altogether in our interview, 195 00:09:54,650 --> 00:09:58,069 Speaker 2: he was talking about how he has refrained from making 196 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,549 Speaker 2: political comments or he has been very cool to the 197 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,070 Speaker 2: barrage of attacks from the opposition. But then just last week, 198 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,309 Speaker 2: we saw how there was an uproar in parliament and 199 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,229 Speaker 2: the opposition left the house in retaliation 200 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:14,140 Speaker 2: the pm's accusation or his statement to J Mp Ra 201 00:10:14,510 --> 00:10:17,789 Speaker 2: J saying that he and the then ruling administration knew 202 00:10:17,799 --> 00:10:20,260 Speaker 2: exactly what they were doing in terms of running a 203 00:10:20,270 --> 00:10:25,929 Speaker 2: dirty corrupt system. So again, they couldn't get past certain 204 00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:29,070 Speaker 2: things in parliament, whether it was to talk about policies 205 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,309 Speaker 2: or serious issues like Z amidi DNA. So he will 206 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 2: be constantly distracted as long as there's a, 207 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,988 Speaker 2: from the opposition as long as he plays into their hands. 208 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: So a lot more has to be done and hopefully 209 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:42,830 Speaker 2: he has the time to get things done. 210 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,390 Speaker 1: Yeah, he certainly has a lot of critics and there's 211 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,710 Speaker 1: no end of people taking potshots of him from the opposition. 212 00:10:48,820 --> 00:10:52,479 Speaker 1: Now he's been getting flack as FIFA mentioned for those 213 00:10:52,489 --> 00:10:55,349 Speaker 1: drop charges of Umno Chief Ahmad Zahid Hamidi and being 214 00:10:55,359 --> 00:10:58,789 Speaker 1: called a hypocrite for his partnership with. Um and as 215 00:10:58,809 --> 00:11:00,909 Speaker 1: a FIFA said, he got quite animated in parliament. 216 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: Shut up, shut up. 217 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:09,590 Speaker 1: Yes. During the midterm review, he was wrapping up his 218 00:11:09,599 --> 00:11:13,500 Speaker 1: speech in parliament. Mr Anwar was annoyed and lost his 219 00:11:13,510 --> 00:11:17,020 Speaker 1: cool because the opposition MP S they were bent on 220 00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:19,630 Speaker 1: calling him a liar and then really not in the 221 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,820 Speaker 1: mood to listen to his explanation about the DNA A. 222 00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:25,429 Speaker 1: Now he knows it doesn't matter what he said, what 223 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,109 Speaker 1: he explained, many already made up their mind was charges 224 00:11:29,119 --> 00:11:33,059 Speaker 1: were dropped all 47 corruption charges although not amounting to 225 00:11:33,070 --> 00:11:34,140 Speaker 1: acquittal which means that 226 00:11:34,216 --> 00:11:37,045 Speaker 1: he can be charged again. But people generally believe that 227 00:11:37,056 --> 00:11:39,556 Speaker 1: there's a deal that he has cut with Zahid in 228 00:11:39,565 --> 00:11:43,776 Speaker 1: turn for unknown support. Otherwise his unity government may fall 229 00:11:43,785 --> 00:11:46,635 Speaker 1: and he will lose power. But Mr Anwar insisted that 230 00:11:46,645 --> 00:11:50,916 Speaker 1: he there's no such deal, no conditions set. He wasn't afraid. 231 00:11:51,135 --> 00:11:54,306 Speaker 1: He said he's been through. So much. He's gone to jail. 232 00:11:54,315 --> 00:11:56,995 Speaker 1: He's not going to be faced by all these. But 233 00:11:57,005 --> 00:11:59,995 Speaker 1: indeed Anwar has been through a lot, waited for 25 234 00:12:00,005 --> 00:12:02,236 Speaker 1: years now for today. The best thing that he can 235 00:12:02,312 --> 00:12:04,361 Speaker 1: do. A lot of analysts saying it to quicken the 236 00:12:04,372 --> 00:12:08,122 Speaker 1: footsteps for institutional reforms at least split the attorney general's 237 00:12:08,131 --> 00:12:13,202 Speaker 1: role and to institute confidence, grow the economy. Ultimately, action 238 00:12:13,211 --> 00:12:15,901 Speaker 1: speaks louder than words and nine months a long time, 239 00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:18,790 Speaker 1: people want to see concrete result, they want quick wins. Yeah, 240 00:12:18,802 --> 00:12:20,221 Speaker 1: they do. And one of the things they want to 241 00:12:20,231 --> 00:12:23,651 Speaker 1: see is movement in the economy. If you will, let's 242 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:25,802 Speaker 1: talk about that as well. Some of the other charges 243 00:12:25,812 --> 00:12:28,861 Speaker 1: ahead for him. Where is his focus and perhaps the 244 00:12:28,872 --> 00:12:30,290 Speaker 1: economy is the best place to start. 245 00:12:30,609 --> 00:12:33,929 Speaker 2: Well, his first big political test the state elections that's 246 00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:36,909 Speaker 2: done and as we know resulted in status quo so 247 00:12:36,919 --> 00:12:39,179 Speaker 2: he can move on for that throughout the year. We've 248 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:42,069 Speaker 2: seen how the Madani government has been trying to focus 249 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,868 Speaker 2: on the economy, putting in very big ambitious plans. Even 250 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,409 Speaker 2: the PM himself agrees that these are very ambitious plans 251 00:12:49,419 --> 00:12:52,739 Speaker 2: from the industrial master plan to the energy transition road 252 00:12:52,750 --> 00:12:55,909 Speaker 2: map and then revising the 12 Malaysia plan, which is 253 00:12:55,919 --> 00:12:57,390 Speaker 2: a five year plan for the country. 254 00:12:57,585 --> 00:12:59,986 Speaker 2: So it does seem that the government's attention has been 255 00:12:59,995 --> 00:13:03,045 Speaker 2: on these areas to really build up the economy. But 256 00:13:03,056 --> 00:13:06,165 Speaker 2: the challenge is to relay the message to the people. 257 00:13:06,176 --> 00:13:09,285 Speaker 2: What exactly is the Madani government doing for them? And 258 00:13:09,296 --> 00:13:12,795 Speaker 2: how will all these big plans bring about benefits for 259 00:13:12,806 --> 00:13:16,176 Speaker 2: the people, the messages and the narratives need to reach 260 00:13:16,184 --> 00:13:19,445 Speaker 2: the ground. And there's a sort of disconnect between what 261 00:13:19,455 --> 00:13:21,945 Speaker 2: the government is trying to achieve and what the people 262 00:13:21,955 --> 00:13:24,486 Speaker 2: on the ground are hearing in October. He 263 00:13:24,562 --> 00:13:26,611 Speaker 2: will be tabling the budget. I think this will be 264 00:13:26,622 --> 00:13:30,391 Speaker 2: the first full budget under the Madani government. Key focus 265 00:13:30,401 --> 00:13:32,541 Speaker 2: they've said has will be on sme s will be 266 00:13:32,552 --> 00:13:35,512 Speaker 2: on the middle class, the reintroduction of GST. They say 267 00:13:35,521 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: it's quite unlikely it's supposed to be on hold. There 268 00:13:37,971 --> 00:13:42,262 Speaker 2: could also be other unpopular measures which includes proposed targeted 269 00:13:42,271 --> 00:13:45,530 Speaker 2: subsidies of petrol. So we'll see what he tables in 270 00:13:45,541 --> 00:13:47,790 Speaker 2: parliament when he is reading out his budget, 271 00:13:48,052 --> 00:13:50,231 Speaker 1: the economy will be front of mind for most Malaysians, 272 00:13:50,242 --> 00:13:51,461 Speaker 1: but Mr is also facing 273 00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,619 Speaker 1: other challenges too. One of them would be the rise 274 00:13:54,630 --> 00:13:58,020 Speaker 1: of Malay nationalist party politics that he sees as a 275 00:13:58,030 --> 00:14:02,109 Speaker 1: distraction to bigger issues that is concerning because um you 276 00:14:02,119 --> 00:14:06,239 Speaker 1: use the race and religious card and you ignore issues 277 00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: of governance or corruption of economic policies. Will it last? 278 00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:10,950 Speaker 1: No 279 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:15,380 Speaker 1: proven by the by elections in Johor? And I believe 280 00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:19,729 Speaker 1: given the opportunity for us to disseminate the information and 281 00:14:19,739 --> 00:14:24,250 Speaker 1: focus on the economy on governance, it would help immensely. 282 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,090 Speaker 1: Now Mr Anwar wants to focus on the economy and 283 00:14:27,099 --> 00:14:30,130 Speaker 1: good governance but is he underplaying the role of race 284 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:33,349 Speaker 1: politics in Malaysia here, the recent state elections showed that 285 00:14:33,359 --> 00:14:36,140 Speaker 1: the sands under his feet have shifted with Malay voters 286 00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:39,679 Speaker 1: heading to the opposition Peri Kata national coalition and in particular, 287 00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:40,809 Speaker 1: the Islamic Party pass. 288 00:14:41,099 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: The best thing I think Mr Annan can do is 289 00:14:42,969 --> 00:14:46,049 Speaker 1: to focus on addressing the people's bread and butter issues. 290 00:14:46,059 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: Observers are saying that he may have no choice but 291 00:14:48,849 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: to pander to the right with the opposition playing out 292 00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:54,390 Speaker 1: on race and religion card and so on. Now the 293 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,989 Speaker 1: ba by election, there's one coming up next month, I 294 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,919 Speaker 1: think on the October 7th and that result will be 295 00:14:59,929 --> 00:15:02,729 Speaker 1: scrutinized to see how voter sentiments in the malay hard 296 00:15:02,739 --> 00:15:06,109 Speaker 1: towards him. Now I will continue to face pressures 297 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,030 Speaker 1: so long. The president is by his side as his 298 00:15:10,039 --> 00:15:13,650 Speaker 1: number two, our analysts and including civil rights activists are 299 00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:16,559 Speaker 1: saying that his reform pledges his call to risk corruption 300 00:15:16,570 --> 00:15:19,719 Speaker 1: to clean up the government instill integrity is going to 301 00:15:19,729 --> 00:15:23,510 Speaker 1: ring hollow somewhat. Basically, the Pakatan Harapan that he leads 302 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,460 Speaker 1: has lost the moral high ground against the opposition. So 303 00:15:26,469 --> 00:15:28,799 Speaker 1: these are things that he has to calculate as he 304 00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:31,159 Speaker 1: heads towards the next election. Of course, it's not due 305 00:15:31,169 --> 00:15:31,630 Speaker 1: to four years. 306 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,900 Speaker 1: So he's got plenty of time but time flies as 307 00:15:34,909 --> 00:15:38,900 Speaker 1: we know, right. So he really have to get concrete results, 308 00:15:38,909 --> 00:15:41,530 Speaker 1: start to work on it as soon as possible. Yeah, 309 00:15:41,539 --> 00:15:43,349 Speaker 1: five prime ministers in five years, we also know that 310 00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:46,210 Speaker 1: anything can happen when it comes to Malaysian politics. A 311 00:15:46,369 --> 00:15:48,539 Speaker 1: reminder to our listeners that full interview is out and 312 00:15:48,549 --> 00:15:51,729 Speaker 1: available now with Prime Minister Anwar Brahim and our two correspondents, 313 00:15:51,739 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: Melissa and FIFA. What's the one thing you want our 314 00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:56,729 Speaker 1: listeners to take away from it? A fa 315 00:15:57,349 --> 00:16:00,739 Speaker 2: I think we want our listeners to hear directly from 316 00:16:00,750 --> 00:16:03,929 Speaker 2: the Prime Minister about how big of a challenge he's facing. 317 00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:06,010 Speaker 2: One of the key things he's talking to us and 318 00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:09,390 Speaker 2: a message that he constantly reiterates is that he needs time, 319 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: whether it is to implement institutional reforms and to implement 320 00:16:13,409 --> 00:16:14,090 Speaker 2: big economic 321 00:16:14,174 --> 00:16:17,304 Speaker 2: plans or to build trust with the people. And I 322 00:16:17,315 --> 00:16:19,494 Speaker 2: think that's a key message that he was trying to 323 00:16:19,505 --> 00:16:20,034 Speaker 2: say 324 00:16:20,044 --> 00:16:23,395 Speaker 1: after the interview. These are the anecdote. He said it himself, 325 00:16:23,405 --> 00:16:26,234 Speaker 1: it was harder than he thought coming to power. Yes, 326 00:16:26,244 --> 00:16:29,905 Speaker 1: he's prepared himself 25 years. Wait, he prepared himself for 327 00:16:29,914 --> 00:16:32,674 Speaker 1: these days, but it was a lot harder than he 328 00:16:32,684 --> 00:16:33,835 Speaker 1: thought it was. 329 00:16:34,309 --> 00:16:37,750 Speaker 1: The challenge is having to ensure his uniquely government stays 330 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,989 Speaker 1: together is one at the same time, the global environment 331 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,429 Speaker 1: is so volatile and he will have a lot of 332 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,729 Speaker 1: challenges and he needs a buy in of the people 333 00:16:45,739 --> 00:16:49,169 Speaker 1: and the civil servants support. And from the state elections 334 00:16:49,179 --> 00:16:52,849 Speaker 1: results shown majority of the civil servants despite all the 335 00:16:52,859 --> 00:16:55,609 Speaker 1: cajoling that you know, it cannot be business as usual. 336 00:16:55,619 --> 00:16:58,020 Speaker 1: They are not with him. He still has facing an 337 00:16:58,030 --> 00:17:01,609 Speaker 1: uphill task with his own civil workforce. So he will 338 00:17:01,619 --> 00:17:03,570 Speaker 1: have to improve on the delivery system 339 00:17:03,809 --> 00:17:06,109 Speaker 1: and convince the people that he has what it takes 340 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,669 Speaker 1: to deliver in the next 34 years to elevate the 341 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,189 Speaker 1: country to escape the middle income trap and move it 342 00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:15,489 Speaker 1: to a high income nation, grow the economic pie and 343 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,179 Speaker 1: share it with everyone. So no one is left behind. 344 00:17:18,369 --> 00:17:20,060 Speaker 1: So these are the challenges that 345 00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:22,660 Speaker 1: he can't do it alone. He needs the entire, as 346 00:17:22,670 --> 00:17:26,540 Speaker 1: a whole society approach to rally behind him. And, and 347 00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:29,849 Speaker 1: that is his challenge and he needs to show quick gains, 348 00:17:29,859 --> 00:17:33,089 Speaker 1: the results. Now that prices are coming down that people 349 00:17:33,099 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: have more to spend. There's a bit of feel good 350 00:17:35,410 --> 00:17:36,550 Speaker 1: about his administration. 351 00:17:36,694 --> 00:17:38,895 Speaker 1: One year is coming up so he desperately need to 352 00:17:38,905 --> 00:17:42,834 Speaker 1: show results. All right. Is there anything that didn't make 353 00:17:42,844 --> 00:17:45,073 Speaker 1: it to the final cut of the show of the 354 00:17:45,084 --> 00:17:46,724 Speaker 1: episode that you wished it did? 355 00:17:46,734 --> 00:17:49,275 Speaker 2: I think I just wish we had more time with him. 356 00:17:49,285 --> 00:17:52,464 Speaker 2: We had a strict 30 minutes, I think, slightly less 357 00:17:52,474 --> 00:17:55,875 Speaker 2: than that. And after the introductions and the welcome and 358 00:17:55,885 --> 00:17:58,724 Speaker 2: making it up, we had much less time. I just 359 00:17:58,734 --> 00:18:00,954 Speaker 2: wish we had more time to grill him actually. 360 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:03,380 Speaker 1: But we have, we see him all the time here. 361 00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: We see Prime Minister an all the time and he's 362 00:18:05,569 --> 00:18:08,540 Speaker 1: always willing to stop and talk to us and that's 363 00:18:08,550 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: why he is so approachable. There's no urgency for us 364 00:18:12,530 --> 00:18:14,699 Speaker 1: to actually grab him and sit down for an interview 365 00:18:14,709 --> 00:18:17,099 Speaker 1: because we can always see him out there. 366 00:18:18,589 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: I teased this earlier. We all know that interviews don't 367 00:18:21,050 --> 00:18:24,599 Speaker 1: always go to plan and this one had its moments too. 368 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:27,250 Speaker 1: Uh Listen to this clip, I found of our boss 369 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:30,420 Speaker 1: Craig Dale as he lists them out just after Mr 370 00:18:30,430 --> 00:18:31,290 Speaker 1: Anwar left the room 371 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,300 Speaker 1: phone, alarms, doorbells. I'm 372 00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:40,290 Speaker 2: so sorry. I switched it 373 00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:40,530 Speaker 1: off. 374 00:18:42,739 --> 00:18:44,060 Speaker 1: Are FIFA? Anything to say? 375 00:18:44,949 --> 00:18:48,780 Speaker 2: You guys really dug behind the scenes. I wrote the 376 00:18:48,790 --> 00:18:51,229 Speaker 2: most basic rule of recording which is to turn off 377 00:18:51,239 --> 00:18:53,300 Speaker 2: your phone. I was so careful. I switched it to 378 00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:55,479 Speaker 2: airplane mode. I put it on silent mode, but I, 379 00:18:55,489 --> 00:18:57,659 Speaker 2: I didn't know this and I just found out that 380 00:18:57,670 --> 00:19:00,780 Speaker 2: your alarm will still ring even if it's on those settings. 381 00:19:00,790 --> 00:19:03,349 Speaker 2: And I think someone made a comment about how clearly 382 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: a FIFA is not a morning person. If an alarm 383 00:19:05,369 --> 00:19:05,869 Speaker 2: is ringing at 384 00:19:05,944 --> 00:19:09,444 Speaker 2: 12 noon. Luckily it happened when I think I was answering, 385 00:19:09,454 --> 00:19:12,285 Speaker 2: it was Mel's question. And luckily I, I didn't react 386 00:19:12,295 --> 00:19:14,984 Speaker 2: to it as well. So I quickly scrambled, I turned 387 00:19:14,994 --> 00:19:17,563 Speaker 2: off my phone. Of course, the crew, the cameraman and 388 00:19:17,574 --> 00:19:20,074 Speaker 2: the Salman were just glaring at me, our producer, Pam 389 00:19:20,084 --> 00:19:22,984 Speaker 2: as well. But luckily we were also able to edit 390 00:19:22,994 --> 00:19:25,464 Speaker 2: it out when we were producing the episode. So, so 391 00:19:25,474 --> 00:19:26,994 Speaker 2: that was good lesson learned. 392 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, I, and I'm just glad I caught it. 393 00:19:29,890 --> 00:19:31,699 Speaker 1: This is the detail that I pay attention to putting 394 00:19:31,709 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: these things together. I was watching every frame of that 395 00:19:33,969 --> 00:19:36,140 Speaker 1: interview and every frame of the bits before and after 396 00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:37,310 Speaker 1: any final thoughts from 397 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 2: you. No, I think we were glad to have the 398 00:19:39,250 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: time with him and we hope that everyone would watch 399 00:19:42,569 --> 00:19:45,209 Speaker 2: our CN a correspondent episode. We took, it was quite 400 00:19:45,219 --> 00:19:47,770 Speaker 2: a rush to turn it around. It was done in 401 00:19:47,780 --> 00:19:50,079 Speaker 2: two days immediately after the interview, it was like Mel 402 00:19:50,089 --> 00:19:52,770 Speaker 2: and I were traveling from KL to Singapore. And then 403 00:19:52,780 --> 00:19:55,010 Speaker 2: in the morning did the interview, did a live crosses 404 00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:55,109 Speaker 2: through 405 00:19:55,194 --> 00:19:57,333 Speaker 2: about the day and then we produced the episode the 406 00:19:57,344 --> 00:19:59,854 Speaker 2: next day was quite an intense 48 hours. So we 407 00:19:59,864 --> 00:20:01,175 Speaker 2: hope everyone watches it. 408 00:20:01,194 --> 00:20:03,954 Speaker 1: I remember we had an uncle and auntie on the 409 00:20:03,964 --> 00:20:06,474 Speaker 1: same flight with us. You know what he asked? No 410 00:20:06,685 --> 00:20:09,295 Speaker 1: news are in Malaysia, both of you in the same 411 00:20:09,305 --> 00:20:12,274 Speaker 1: plane going back to say no news, no news. I 412 00:20:12,285 --> 00:20:16,125 Speaker 1: said no news is good news, no news in Malaysia. 413 00:20:17,234 --> 00:20:19,395 Speaker 1: And it was so candid because they saw both of 414 00:20:19,405 --> 00:20:22,525 Speaker 1: us in the same plane going back to Singapore. Yeah, 415 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,170 Speaker 1: that is brilliant. Thanks, Afifa, thank you so 416 00:20:26,479 --> 00:20:26,569 Speaker 2: much. 417 00:20:27,689 --> 00:20:30,300 Speaker 1: Now, there's nothing we journalists love more than being able 418 00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:33,339 Speaker 1: to put questions to newsmakers so that you can be informed. 419 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,599 Speaker 1: Mel and FIFA did a great job of engaging Prime 420 00:20:35,609 --> 00:20:38,179 Speaker 1: Minister Anwar Ibrahim in a whole range. Of issues and 421 00:20:38,189 --> 00:20:40,420 Speaker 1: I encourage you to watch the TV version of CN 422 00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:42,699 Speaker 1: A correspondent for the full interview. You can watch it 423 00:20:42,709 --> 00:20:44,270 Speaker 1: whenever and wherever you like on CNN 424 00:20:44,349 --> 00:20:47,290 Speaker 1: dot Asia do like and subscribe to this podcast version 425 00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:49,810 Speaker 1: that takes you behind the scenes with our correspondence. It's 426 00:20:49,819 --> 00:20:53,180 Speaker 1: available on our website and mobile app as well as Spotify, 427 00:20:53,189 --> 00:20:56,819 Speaker 1: Apple and Google podcasts. Thank you for listening. Our podcast 428 00:20:56,829 --> 00:20:59,410 Speaker 1: team is made up of Sai Win, Kristina Robert Clara 429 00:20:59,709 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: and Me Steve.