WEBVTT - Does appearance help you get ahead in your career? 0:00:00.060 --> 0:00:03.330 Hey, what's going on, Sonia, with you? Welcome to another 0:00:03.330 --> 0:00:05.520 episode of men. Explain. 0:00:13.530 --> 0:00:18.290 Do they have a very special guest? He's fuzzy, like 0:00:18.690 --> 0:00:21.900 I haven't Pallavi, I am a hotel personality at a 0:00:21.900 --> 0:00:25.110 smart local. People know me for doing stupid things on 0:00:25.110 --> 0:00:27.840 the internet. And you know what? I'm very proud to 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.410 say that I'm I'm very happy with what I'm doing 0:00:30.420 --> 0:00:31.200 at the moment. 0:00:31.290 --> 0:00:36.030 You know what? Congratulations. Yeah. Inspired it in life. Embrace it. Right? 0:00:36.260 --> 0:00:38.820 I mean, success is very, very subjective as well. All 0:00:38.820 --> 0:00:41.309 of us have different perceptions of it. Today's a bit 0:00:41.310 --> 0:00:44.670 of an extension of a previous episode because 30 minutes, 0:00:44.670 --> 0:00:47.670 40 minutes, it wasn't enough. Do you think looks will 0:00:47.670 --> 0:00:50.010 help you accelerate your career? 0:00:50.250 --> 0:00:52.830 Well, to be honest, I think like the fact that 0:00:52.850 --> 0:00:55.020 immediate right means not so important. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.710 Oh no, no, no, no, no. Beauty is subjective. 0:00:59.580 --> 0:01:03.780 OK, love. I mean, it is something that everybody knows 0:01:03.790 --> 0:01:07.470 the right looks. Definitely. Yeah. A fact, though when it 0:01:07.470 --> 0:01:12.960 comes to our industry, there are outliers with the I 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:14.850 would say. I mean, I am an outlier. I would 0:01:14.850 --> 0:01:19.580 say I'm not the most conventionally good looking individual, you know, 0:01:19.590 --> 0:01:22.039 I mean, people make fun of me on the internet 0:01:22.050 --> 0:01:25.920 or be having like receding hairline, la my forehead to 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:30.250 beat la north to big double chin. 0:01:30.750 --> 0:01:31.280 You know what? 0:01:31.290 --> 0:01:36.050 Honestly, I've come to that. Just take it in my stride. Yeah, 0:01:36.060 --> 0:01:38.729 and just ignore it. But I mean, at the back 0:01:38.730 --> 0:01:41.069 of my mind, yeah, that things, of course, that I 0:01:41.069 --> 0:01:44.910 am very insecure about, especially because we look in such 0:01:44.910 --> 0:01:48.000 a judgmental fashion. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.570 I don't know where it's going to go. Critical, yeah. Critical. 0:01:51.570 --> 0:01:55.410 And also a visual. Yes, yes, you're right. Where everything 0:01:55.410 --> 0:01:58.710 we are doing is is visual. Yeah, yeah. So it's 0:01:58.710 --> 0:02:02.490 a bit challenging for me to say that it doesn't matter. 0:02:02.610 --> 0:02:05.250 So, so then that begs the question, you know, based 0:02:05.250 --> 0:02:08.580 on whatever you're seeing right now, why did you go 0:02:08.580 --> 0:02:11.820 into this line and industry? I mean, was just wondering, 0:02:11.820 --> 0:02:12.480 just wondering. 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.780 Honestly, it wasn't a choice. I think when I first 0:02:15.780 --> 0:02:19.800 started out at my local, I was actually in editorial, 0:02:20.130 --> 0:02:22.530 so I was writing. Nobody's going to see my face. 0:02:22.650 --> 0:02:25.410 They're going to see my name. That's about it, right? Article, 0:02:25.710 --> 0:02:27.450 you know, just talk about, you know, the things you 0:02:27.450 --> 0:02:29.070 did in Singapore. But of course, the way we first 0:02:29.070 --> 0:02:32.489 started out, when I first started out around seven years ago, 0:02:33.690 --> 0:02:37.710 we were not launching a YouTube channel. But when that 0:02:37.710 --> 0:02:40.560 started out, I started being on it, right? 0:02:41.290 --> 0:02:44.060 Let you be on camera right now. It wasn't like 0:02:44.070 --> 0:02:44.790 much like that 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.139 because the philosophy is they wanted to get everyday people 0:02:49.410 --> 0:02:52.170 to be on camera and do things and try things, 0:02:52.350 --> 0:02:55.859 and you get very organic reactions from that love. And 0:02:56.070 --> 0:02:58.650 that was kind of where I started in that. In 0:02:58.650 --> 0:02:59.370 a sense, it 0:02:59.370 --> 0:03:02.460 is amazing to see how, like seven years went by 0:03:02.460 --> 0:03:04.620 seven or eight years, for example, and things have changed. 0:03:04.620 --> 0:03:07.320 The landscape has changed. Yeah, but obviously, you know, the 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.060 overarching topic here today about good looks. I just want 0:03:11.070 --> 0:03:13.410 to kick it off by asking you this question as well. 0:03:13.740 --> 0:03:19.430 How important are good looks to you? I mean, you 0:03:19.430 --> 0:03:21.350 can be straight up and honest you, because we don't 0:03:21.350 --> 0:03:22.730 we have no filter on this show. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.880 I love that. Yeah, in terms of what in terms 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:26.980 of light, you know, 0:03:26.990 --> 0:03:30.980 relationship candles, yes, we need of work. 0:03:31.190 --> 0:03:34.760 Wow. Interesting. How important? 0:03:34.850 --> 0:03:37.280 Can we start with? How important is do in relationships? 0:03:37.430 --> 0:03:38.770 Oh my god. Go ahead. 0:03:39.500 --> 0:03:41.970 Go straight. And then we think about a notch. Okay. 0:03:41.990 --> 0:03:43.010 Talk about in the workplace. 0:03:43.130 --> 0:03:46.430 All right. Relationships, how important. I think. I don't know 0:03:46.430 --> 0:03:48.980 how to say it is important for sure, but it's 0:03:48.980 --> 0:03:53.090 important that I use that. Yeah. No, I find that 0:03:53.090 --> 0:03:56.390 person attractive. Yes. Right, right. Nowadays, if all these dating 0:03:56.390 --> 0:03:57.740 apps and all 0:03:57.740 --> 0:03:59.900 these dating apps, yeah, you're obviously going to judge a 0:03:59.900 --> 0:04:01.910 person based on the looks like I'm going to be honest, 0:04:01.910 --> 0:04:05.490 like every single person in this world is superficial. Right? 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.070 If you still if you say you're not superficial, you're lying. 0:04:08.090 --> 0:04:12.730 Exactly. Yeah, I'm going to call you out, man. Yeah, yeah, no. 0:04:12.740 --> 0:04:16.099 So everybody is some level of superficial, right? And I'm 0:04:16.100 --> 0:04:18.620 definitely going to admit that I am and I am 0:04:18.620 --> 0:04:19.589 a fierce person first. 0:04:19.820 --> 0:04:20.609 When anything else? 0:04:20.630 --> 0:04:23.030 Yeah, when I when I meet someone, I like to 0:04:23.029 --> 0:04:24.289 see a good face. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.310 Right, right. Who doesn't like you? 0:04:27.350 --> 0:04:29.450 To some extent? I mean, when you, for example, when 0:04:29.450 --> 0:04:31.370 you go to clubs and clubs were a thing, right? 0:04:31.410 --> 0:04:35.060 Distant memory, by the way. You know, obviously you wouldn't 0:04:35.060 --> 0:04:38.440 be attracted physically to someone first before you pick up 0:04:38.450 --> 0:04:41.000 a conversation. Right, right. And then you figure out, Oh, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.000 maybe this person, media personality, or maybe the fact that 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.890 this person is in my time or I don't like 0:04:45.890 --> 0:04:48.200 his or her character, then OK, forget it. Like then 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.650 it looks. Or Meadow goes, I'm right to this person. 0:04:50.660 --> 0:04:53.510 Yeah, but with that fear, right? Yeah, it really depends 0:04:53.510 --> 0:04:56.780 from person to person, right? Someone might find someone attractive, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.789 but another person might completely disagree. 0:04:59.870 --> 0:05:02.440 Oh, 100 percent. My friends don't agree with my choice 0:05:04.070 --> 0:05:06.800 in general, actually, to be honest, I'm still I'm fine. 0:05:07.370 --> 0:05:09.930 So that's good that we don't, Chris, go right back 0:05:09.950 --> 0:05:11.000 over the same people. 0:05:11.020 --> 0:05:14.359 Exactly that. But that's the beauty about it, right? That 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:19.640 it is very subjective. It is also another offshoot from 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.260 that topic is beauty is very much, I think, nowadays 0:05:23.810 --> 0:05:28.310 very closely linked to ethnicity as well. OK. Yeah, very 0:05:28.310 --> 0:05:32.960 interesting because different ethnic groups may be seen as less attractive. 0:05:33.150 --> 0:05:35.460 Oh yeah. And that's a whole nother like, you know, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.390 different discourse that we needed thought about, 0:05:38.390 --> 0:05:39.470 you know, runs deep. 0:05:39.830 --> 0:05:40.940 Yeah, exactly that. 0:05:40.940 --> 0:05:44.180 But that is I think I think like a lot 0:05:44.180 --> 0:05:49.159 of us, we ascribe the what we ascribe, what beautiful 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.770 is based on certain expectations provided to us by the media, 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.490 either like, you must look like K-pop style. So for example, 0:05:58.500 --> 0:06:00.710 but of course, you know the example I always use, 0:06:00.980 --> 0:06:04.789 Asian people always want to look white to right fat, 0:06:04.820 --> 0:06:08.240 and then western people always want to look tan, right? 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.130 If like, we just not happy with ourselves 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.160 since we're going to move into the workplace very soon. 0:06:12.170 --> 0:06:17.159 I also recall a time where I auditioned for a OK, 0:06:17.180 --> 0:06:19.280 I'm not going to say the company OK, but I 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.220 auditioned for like some sort of a reporter role, like 0:06:22.220 --> 0:06:24.350 a presenter role, OK? And it was going to be 0:06:24.350 --> 0:06:26.390 kind of a semi-permanent thing. So I have to go 0:06:26.390 --> 0:06:28.279 back like maybe two, three times a week to do 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.880 stuff with this company is pretty big company. OK, OK. 0:06:31.070 --> 0:06:34.190 And they were saying, Oh, they want to diversify and 0:06:34.190 --> 0:06:35.840 stuff like that, right? So then when I went for 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.560 the audition, I started out to be honest. OK, OK. Yeah, 0:06:38.570 --> 0:06:40.370 I hardly ever say this. But sometimes when you get 0:06:40.370 --> 0:06:42.200 a good feeling about what you did, I mean, it's 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.349 fine to admit it. You know that you aced the 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.640 whatever you were supposed to do. I got the feedback 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.100 after that, according to the senior producer, he was like, 0:06:49.100 --> 0:06:50.750 Your eyes are too oriental. 0:06:50.820 --> 0:06:52.280 Oh yeah, that's what 0:06:53.029 --> 0:06:57.230 your eyes to orient those. So it's not really our vibe. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.860 And I was like, I know. And you know what? 0:06:59.870 --> 0:07:01.790 For that moment, I was like, You know what? I felt? 0:07:01.790 --> 0:07:04.190 I don't know. I just really felt taken aback by 0:07:04.190 --> 0:07:07.190 what he said to my face as well. So say, 0:07:07.190 --> 0:07:08.510 you know what? No regrets. I don't think I want 0:07:08.510 --> 0:07:13.510 to work for this company anyway. Goodbye. You kind of situation. Yeah. So, 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.620 so since we're on the topic of the workplace as 0:07:15.620 --> 0:07:17.869 well and you're in the workplace, I mean, all the 0:07:17.870 --> 0:07:20.960 time you're surrounded by different people. Does it play a 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.840 part like, let's say, a better looking person or who 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.790 is perceived to be better looking comes along? Do you 0:07:25.790 --> 0:07:28.010 find it easier to be like, Oh yeah, OK, I 0:07:28.010 --> 0:07:29.270 think this person can do the job. Oh yeah, I 0:07:29.270 --> 0:07:30.740 trust this colleague. Oh yeah, I want to work with 0:07:30.740 --> 0:07:34.010 this colleague more because this person looks better. Have you 0:07:34.010 --> 0:07:34.790 ever felt that way? 0:07:34.820 --> 0:07:36.630 Not only have I felt that way, yes, 0:07:37.070 --> 0:07:38.720 you've done it. No, no. 0:07:38.730 --> 0:07:41.870 I've also like felt like I am worse off for 0:07:41.870 --> 0:07:44.910 the job. Oh no. Yeah. So I'm a bit like 0:07:44.930 --> 0:07:49.160 most self-deprecating as a as an individual. Sometimes I use 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.350 it as like a joke line. I use it to 0:07:51.380 --> 0:07:52.570 like my real pain and 0:07:53.650 --> 0:07:54.360 it hurts 0:07:54.550 --> 0:07:55.940 inside right on the 0:07:55.940 --> 0:07:56.960 inside. Exactly. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.960 But you know, it's the truth that sometimes when someone 0:07:59.960 --> 0:08:04.550 who is younger, better looking and fresher in coming into 0:08:04.550 --> 0:08:08.270 the industry, right? So always be exactly that. And there's 0:08:08.270 --> 0:08:11.180 no there's no way you can feel you don't feel 0:08:11.180 --> 0:08:14.180 like a little bit of like envy. Yeah, right. And 0:08:14.180 --> 0:08:16.590 I'm going to emulate so many people I meet from. 0:08:16.700 --> 0:08:18.650 Day to date, I meet that they are all like, 0:08:18.650 --> 0:08:20.900 so fresh, so young, they're all ready to take on 0:08:20.900 --> 0:08:21.650 the world, right? 0:08:21.910 --> 0:08:25.340 Then your metabolism? Yeah, I don't think like, Oh, that 0:08:25.340 --> 0:08:28.650 was me, like seven years ago. No, but 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.970 I'm actually very glad. I'm very aware, right? Some people 0:08:31.970 --> 0:08:34.050 are not aware of these things and they act up. Yeah, 0:08:34.250 --> 0:08:37.490 I'm very hyper aware about my feelings and my emotions. 0:08:37.490 --> 0:08:39.860 I'm very in touch with what I feel when I 0:08:39.860 --> 0:08:43.880 meet someone new that I actually have, you know, actively 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:45.800 made the decision that you know what? Yeah, there is 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.319 an expiry date for what I do. Of course. Yeah, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.120 that is exactly that. And I say, like, you know what? 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.350 That's fine, then that's where I start pivoting myself to work, 0:08:54.380 --> 0:08:57.410 you know, being more of a mentor, more behind the 0:08:57.410 --> 0:09:00.890 scenes stuff. That's the natural progression for for this job, 0:09:01.010 --> 0:09:03.410 I feel, or maybe I do more important things. I 0:09:03.410 --> 0:09:04.770 talk to the minister that, yeah, 0:09:04.780 --> 0:09:06.560 yeah, that kind of stuff. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:08.929 I do less. I know frivolous things do more the 0:09:08.929 --> 0:09:12.590 more important things in terms of like looks right and 0:09:12.590 --> 0:09:16.340 when deciding whether someone is better off at doing the job, 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.140 you feel a little bit more trust in, you know, 0:09:18.290 --> 0:09:20.720 allowing them to take the job, you know, I mean, 0:09:21.410 --> 0:09:23.120 they do need to look to put together like if, 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:24.829 let's say, they come in and look like they just 0:09:25.309 --> 0:09:29.240 woke up, I just put on whatever they found in 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:30.830 their closet or whatever, and 0:09:31.550 --> 0:09:34.559 anyone in the closet may be on the floor floor. 0:09:34.650 --> 0:09:35.210 I know. 0:09:35.300 --> 0:09:38.329 And if they come in right again, I think first impressions, 0:09:38.330 --> 0:09:41.960 of course, is not only just about the looks. Yeah, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.870 it's about everything. The whole package, right? 0:09:43.910 --> 0:09:46.880 No, you put it really well, because when it comes 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.809 to being presentable, it really just boils down to a 0:09:50.929 --> 0:09:53.210 common you have properly or let you know your shit 0:09:53.210 --> 0:09:55.520 is either high. Clearly, you take 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:56.510 care of yourself. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.480 It's more of a personal hygiene kind of thing. And 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.609 it also gives off a better impression that, oh, this 0:10:01.610 --> 0:10:03.920 person knows how to take care of him or herself 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.190 and perhaps maybe is more disciplined and that somebody that 0:10:07.190 --> 0:10:09.890 I want on my team. That's how people feel, especially 0:10:09.890 --> 0:10:13.190 in interviews like first impressions, right? Is the same as 0:10:13.190 --> 0:10:14.600 dating first impressions 0:10:14.780 --> 0:10:18.180 in that snap of like meeting that first. But the 0:10:18.230 --> 0:10:22.280 person right beside you, that person has already formed the 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.850 judgment of you. Yeah, right. Whether they would like to 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.550 continue with the date. Yeah, whether they they think that 0:10:28.550 --> 0:10:31.339 you are ready to take on the job. It is 0:10:31.340 --> 0:10:34.460 so important that when the moment you walk in right, 0:10:34.460 --> 0:10:37.920 there is some sort of good impression that you're leaving. Yeah. 0:10:37.940 --> 0:10:40.309 So I'm going to pull up this research. I was 0:10:40.309 --> 0:10:44.420 actually done quite a while ago, in 1986, even in 0:10:45.740 --> 0:10:46.790 1996, I was 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.760 seven. OK, this professor 0:10:50.030 --> 0:10:54.229 actually found that attractive workers were rewarded with nine percent 0:10:54.230 --> 0:10:59.030 higher salary for men and five percent more salary for women. 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.350 And furthermore, the most recent one in 2021, almost like 0:11:03.350 --> 0:11:05.330 a follow up of some source shows that both male 0:11:05.330 --> 0:11:08.179 and female who are higher on the beauty skill were 0:11:08.179 --> 0:11:12.100 more likely to lend themselves the job of their choice first. 0:11:13.070 --> 0:11:15.709 So I guess, you know, the question is, do you 0:11:15.710 --> 0:11:18.530 think based on our experiences, I'm not sure how many 0:11:18.530 --> 0:11:21.350 jobs you've applied for? Right, right, right. Maybe I do 0:11:21.350 --> 0:11:23.030 have a story to share, but maybe you can share 0:11:23.030 --> 0:11:26.390 with me first. Did you feel like there was any 0:11:26.390 --> 0:11:29.540 sort of struggle at all in applying for jobs? And 0:11:29.540 --> 0:11:32.060 I don't know in your journey. Hmm. Yeah, so far 0:11:32.179 --> 0:11:36.500 in a way, yes. I don't have any specific examples, 0:11:36.500 --> 0:11:40.580 but I've always when coming to interviews and stuff, I've 0:11:40.580 --> 0:11:44.300 always had that a mindset, right? You know, you're not 0:11:44.300 --> 0:11:46.670 going to be the best looking person, so you're going 0:11:46.670 --> 0:11:48.920 to shine with your personality, right? You're going to be 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.640 as candid and as honest and as, you know, authentic 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:53.220 as possible. 0:11:53.300 --> 0:11:53.900 Charismatic. 0:11:53.929 --> 0:11:57.380 Exactly that. I've always had that mindset. I think maybe 0:11:57.380 --> 0:11:59.929 because I grew up like knowing like I if you 0:11:59.929 --> 0:12:02.330 put me in a room with 10 guys, I would 0:12:02.330 --> 0:12:05.540 probably be number nine on them. 10, right? Well, again, 0:12:05.540 --> 0:12:08.420 very self-deprecating. I'm fine on my personality. 0:12:08.420 --> 0:12:10.730 OK, OK with that, right? 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.090 So I've had that mindset. I mean, I'm honest with myself. 0:12:14.179 --> 0:12:18.020 I know that my my plus point is in my looks. 0:12:18.470 --> 0:12:20.600 My plus point is in my personality and how I'm 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.920 able to talk, basically. So that's always been the case 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.740 when I go to interviews and always been to use 0:12:27.740 --> 0:12:29.810 my brains office than anything else. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.260 So basically picking up on what you said, right? Mentioning 0:12:33.260 --> 0:12:36.080 that sometimes when you go into an interview or I 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.720 don't know, a meeting or whatever it may be that 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.390 you have to rely more on your personality and really 0:12:41.390 --> 0:12:44.900 like and that you say, make up for other certain things. 0:12:45.020 --> 0:12:46.880 Do you feel like that's a burden to you to 0:12:47.059 --> 0:12:48.740 weigh heavily on you? Do you wish 0:12:48.740 --> 0:12:51.440 otherwise? Maybe because I think I've been doing this for 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.350 so long, it's no longer. But then maybe because I 0:12:54.350 --> 0:12:56.570 think it's become like part and parcel of why I 0:12:56.570 --> 0:12:59.420 do a lot is I become a routine in that sense, right? 0:13:00.500 --> 0:13:02.479 But for sure, I think when I first started out there, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.720 there were times when I felt like, especially when you 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.230 are pit against another person and then there's always that 0:13:09.230 --> 0:13:12.050 sense of competition where you know someone else gets and 0:13:12.410 --> 0:13:16.480 gets a job easier or they get picked instantly for in. 0:13:16.660 --> 0:13:17.620 No job in question, 0:13:17.620 --> 0:13:18.100 why 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:18.940 exactly that 0:13:18.940 --> 0:13:21.640 and deep down, sometimes I always think like a I 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.150 have maybe if not more skill sets, you know, it's 0:13:25.150 --> 0:13:26.920 a similar skill set of the person. Why am I 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.490 not picked? Yeah. Is it because someone who looks better 0:13:30.490 --> 0:13:32.980 than me? And again, like, it's one of those things that, 0:13:32.980 --> 0:13:35.530 you know, it really chipped away at my self-confidence that 0:13:35.540 --> 0:13:38.199 I slowly chipped away. You don't really realize it, but 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.660 it's deep down in your mind. One way I did 0:13:41.260 --> 0:13:44.350 overcome it is that there are there are other things 0:13:44.350 --> 0:13:46.449 that you can look forward through, even if you don't 0:13:46.450 --> 0:13:49.060 get that particular job. There are other people and other, 0:13:49.300 --> 0:13:51.790 you know, maybe brands, for example, that will resonate with 0:13:51.790 --> 0:13:56.380 you despite, you know, whether you you seem conventionally beautiful 0:13:56.380 --> 0:13:59.530 or not. So I choose to, you know, really look 0:13:59.530 --> 0:14:02.890 at aligning myself with people who appreciate me for my 0:14:02.890 --> 0:14:06.670 personality and for the branding that I can help them 0:14:06.670 --> 0:14:09.460 create beyond just the brand appreciates me because I look 0:14:09.460 --> 0:14:12.400 good to me. It doesn't really add value to my 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:13.420 life in that sense. 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.770 So a while ago, before influencers even existed, do you 0:14:17.770 --> 0:14:20.780 remember this, a frozen yogurt stock off frolic? 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.960 Of course I you know, of course 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.180 you know about it. If you are from our generation, 0:14:25.180 --> 0:14:27.280 you would know what it is. Yeah, okay. It was 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.130 known for hiring just jobs. 0:14:29.350 --> 0:14:34.220 So I'm I'm probably everyone looks at me like this again. 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.710 Your family doesn't even exist anymore, does it doesn't. I mean, unfortunately, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.700 long time ago, they I think they folded a couple 0:14:39.700 --> 0:14:41.860 of years ago. But during that time, I think I 0:14:41.860 --> 0:14:43.950 was like, what, 18 years old or something like that? 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.770 You know, we we knew of this frozen yogurt stone. 0:14:47.950 --> 0:14:50.380 And I was actually recommended by a friend, she said. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.350 Actually not betting on that. You just do this. You know, 0:14:53.380 --> 0:14:55.240 you just sold a yogurt, by the way. That is 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.880 a skill, OK? I hate it. When people steal your 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.680 you is empty in the middle market. 0:14:59.690 --> 0:15:00.910 Still be full, OK? 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:01.450 Right? 0:15:01.810 --> 0:15:03.130 The point is 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:04.870 she was like, Oh, all you have to do is 0:15:04.870 --> 0:15:07.660 to go for this interview with one of the one 0:15:07.660 --> 0:15:10.810 of the owners who is, I guess, the hiring person. 0:15:11.230 --> 0:15:13.270 And it was this guy, and I really kind of 0:15:13.270 --> 0:15:15.490 knew like I looked at the girls there and back 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.560 then got no social media, no Instagram, no Instagram, right? 0:15:18.580 --> 0:15:21.460 And I was like, Well, they're also kind of like cute, 0:15:21.460 --> 0:15:23.350 you know? And it was just Facebook back then, and 0:15:23.350 --> 0:15:25.360 you can still go stop worry. Like, Oh, they're also 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.820 like cute and I'm pretty. So then I went in 0:15:27.820 --> 0:15:31.330 and back then I had really short hair. OK, really, really, 0:15:31.330 --> 0:15:34.070 really short hair. And it was like a pixie cut. OK. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.350 I was wondering like, Oh my gosh, I don't know 0:15:35.350 --> 0:15:39.280 whether they were like, Think that I'm not cute enough 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.400 or feminine enough or whatever. But anyway, like, I went 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.130 there and within five minutes she was like, OK, yeah, 0:15:45.130 --> 0:15:47.620 you can start work on like, whatever, whatever. He didn't 0:15:47.620 --> 0:15:48.360 ask me much. 0:15:49.270 --> 0:15:50.770 So no skill set required. 0:15:51.010 --> 0:15:53.430 Exactly did. Even as we just saw gut. No. Oh no, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.460 no, no, no, you don't. You just learn on the job. 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.690 But I thought, you know, that was one of the 0:16:01.690 --> 0:16:05.680 examples where obviously they were looking for a certain type 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.460 of rice, right? And then the skills are secondary. I mean, 0:16:09.460 --> 0:16:11.440 you know, they become next to like whether or not 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.880 you're a good you, a good swallow, you're a good 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.310 fruit cutter because we have to cut fruit to not 0:16:15.310 --> 0:16:17.710 just for you guys to cut fruits as well and 0:16:17.710 --> 0:16:21.490 pour the toppings, you know, into the relative roses and 0:16:21.490 --> 0:16:24.310 stuff like that. And also on top of that customer service. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.060 So I realize that beyond, you know, looking cute or 0:16:28.060 --> 0:16:29.740 looking good, I'm not saying I cute or what, but 0:16:30.100 --> 0:16:34.210 it's subjective. Once again, you also have to carry it 0:16:34.210 --> 0:16:35.650 on with your skills. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.270 Well, honestly, a frolic brings back memories, man. It really is. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.680 It's like not only about the looks right, but the 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.170 girls who are serving the yoga. How you all had 0:16:44.170 --> 0:16:46.540 a bad rep really being a bitch? 0:16:47.950 --> 0:16:51.930 Know how you feel. Do you have a resting bitch face? Yes. 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.960 It's like you think customer service, like customer service. I 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.740 think you get maybe a text that said, that's so funny. 0:17:00.370 --> 0:17:02.590 I guess when it comes to hiring since I talked 0:17:02.590 --> 0:17:06.190 about my hiring process, which lasted all of five minutes. 0:17:06.490 --> 0:17:09.290 Are you involved in the hiring process at all? At all? 0:17:09.369 --> 0:17:11.230 A little bit of it. 0:17:11.260 --> 0:17:13.480 I used to be a lot more nowadays. I not 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.750 as much anymore, but yeah, I used to be. And 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.180 they are couple things like that. You need to tick 0:17:19.180 --> 0:17:22.300 off before. Well, I, you know, before I say, like, Okay, 0:17:22.310 --> 0:17:24.669 I'm going to put you through. Yeah, I'm going to 0:17:24.670 --> 0:17:28.840 give you a little bit more attention. OK. So usually 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.760 I don't really care as it usually when they send 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.280 like their resumes, right? I don't really care about the pictures. 0:17:33.609 --> 0:17:35.770 They put pictures, right? I don't really care because for me, 0:17:36.369 --> 0:17:39.780 that first part, right, I'm always looking at our portfolio. Yeah. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.310 The portfolio is good. Yeah. Usually the first thing that 0:17:42.310 --> 0:17:47.800 convinces me. But when they come to the interviews, that's 0:17:47.810 --> 0:17:51.130 when I stop paying attention. So I tell you kind 0:17:51.130 --> 0:17:54.910 of know that a culture is very casual, right? So 0:17:54.910 --> 0:17:57.190 usually there are a couple of things that I get 0:17:57.190 --> 0:17:58.449 a little I get a little bit like, 0:17:58.510 --> 0:18:01.030 I love, you know, a little bit happy. OK, let 0:18:01.030 --> 0:18:01.149 me 0:18:01.150 --> 0:18:03.010 reflect, not really reflect a little bit of a pet 0:18:03.070 --> 0:18:06.040 peeve is when they come dressed in like suits. Oh, right. 0:18:06.410 --> 0:18:09.610 And I'm like, This are not appropriate, you know, applying 0:18:09.609 --> 0:18:10.750 for a finance job. 0:18:10.780 --> 0:18:12.679 Oh no, you don't say, What do I do wrong? Yeah, 0:18:13.060 --> 0:18:15.730 my best. No, but sometimes 0:18:15.730 --> 0:18:19.000 you need to. Pay attention research, yeah. About the culture 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.159 that you're working at. It's nice to for you to 0:18:21.430 --> 0:18:25.450 dress appropriately, la and school. It's very simple to just 0:18:25.450 --> 0:18:30.010 put on something nice and dress up. Comb your hair 0:18:30.250 --> 0:18:33.490 look like you are put together every single thing you 0:18:33.490 --> 0:18:37.480 do from the moment you walked into the office for 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:42.419 the interview. People notice from how nice you treat the reception, lady. 0:18:43.180 --> 0:18:44.740 I agree with what you said, you know, even in 0:18:44.740 --> 0:18:48.190 our industry. I love it. When you know artists and celebrities, 0:18:48.230 --> 0:18:51.010 we are. Also, we should be nice to the fashion people, 0:18:51.010 --> 0:18:53.470 for example. I mean, I came from a background where 0:18:53.470 --> 0:18:55.930 I was in film production. My dad runs a film 0:18:55.930 --> 0:18:58.750 production company, ran a film board, actually company. And I 0:18:58.750 --> 0:19:01.170 was also like doing a lot of stuff like filming 0:19:01.170 --> 0:19:03.220 and carrying a tripod, all that kind of stuff. And 0:19:03.220 --> 0:19:06.310 you can see how people treat you sometimes like they 0:19:06.310 --> 0:19:08.909 don't give a shit about you. But some people are 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.110 set apart by the fact that they want to help 0:19:11.109 --> 0:19:13.030 you out or they, you know, they're nice to you 0:19:13.030 --> 0:19:15.100 and stuff like that. And that says a lot of 0:19:15.190 --> 0:19:18.699 somebodies character and personality, whether you want them on your team. 0:19:18.730 --> 0:19:22.240 It's true. It's true. And to me, that trumps how 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.390 good-looking you are. You are an asshole, right? Yeah. No 0:19:25.390 --> 0:19:26.980 matter how good-looking you are, sorry. 0:19:26.980 --> 0:19:29.560 You know, for me, it's a hundred percent. Anyway, I'm 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.929 just going to kick you out. Exactly. 0:19:31.930 --> 0:19:35.379 I mean, it also reminds me of Abercrombie and Fitch. 0:19:35.380 --> 0:19:37.030 I don't know, right? But when they were still here, 0:19:37.030 --> 0:19:38.290 the exit it already. Yes. 0:19:38.290 --> 0:19:42.580 Yes. No. I heard they're coming back, you know, coming back. Oh, guys, 0:19:42.580 --> 0:19:44.680 at the same place what I thought? 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.850 Go ahead. Look it up. It was in the news. 0:19:46.869 --> 0:19:50.290 What do you think? We'll see? I first laid down 0:19:50.470 --> 0:19:51.250 if I you have a 0:19:51.250 --> 0:19:53.860 real and then did they're going to enter again into 0:19:53.859 --> 0:19:54.879 the market? I don't know why. 0:19:55.010 --> 0:19:57.310 Why do you remember? Like, have you ever walked into 0:19:57.310 --> 0:19:59.860 like NFL? Did you feel intimidated? 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.800 All the good looking people? Yeah, I never want to 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:03.730 walk into it in that book. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.550 I just feel like I don't know, guys. I feel 0:20:06.550 --> 0:20:07.450 so nervous. I just walk 0:20:07.450 --> 0:20:09.010 out. I feel like a troll when I walk 0:20:09.010 --> 0:20:10.480 in there, but you 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.840 see for it. That is also a classic example of 0:20:14.230 --> 0:20:17.020 hiring people based on their looks, right? And I think 0:20:17.020 --> 0:20:19.450 in the recent years as well, they were put under 0:20:19.450 --> 0:20:22.510 the spotlight for and they were heavily criticized as well 0:20:22.510 --> 0:20:26.570 for doing this and for objectifying their staff members who 0:20:26.590 --> 0:20:29.199 are meant to be the sales staff. You and I 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.510 had friends working, and back then it was kind of 0:20:31.510 --> 0:20:34.300 like the the Knicks frolic on the higher and the 0:20:34.300 --> 0:20:37.150 more I thought it was right, you know, the. So 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.850 there was so much interest in doing that job because 0:20:39.850 --> 0:20:42.310 the thing is, I don't know whether it's about validation, 0:20:42.310 --> 0:20:44.050 but the moment you get hired, you're like, Oh, I'm 0:20:44.050 --> 0:20:46.030 hot or like, I don't know, what do you think? 0:20:46.030 --> 0:20:48.090 That could be one of the reasons? 0:20:48.130 --> 0:20:50.080 Oh, well, snap what? 0:20:50.290 --> 0:20:54.670 So basically, right, by getting hired, you're essentially stroking their 0:20:54.670 --> 0:20:55.150 egos 0:20:56.260 --> 0:20:56.440 in 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.420 some way. I don't know this. By the way, these 0:20:58.420 --> 0:20:59.380 are personal views. 0:20:59.380 --> 0:21:01.360 So in disclaimer, I'm 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.300 pretty sure that that in some way, yeah, there is 0:21:04.300 --> 0:21:07.570 some truth to that. For example, if you get you 0:21:07.570 --> 0:21:11.439 get booked for like a modeling gig. Yes. Yeah, obviously, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.630 there's some sort of you that deep down in your 0:21:13.630 --> 0:21:15.700 mind and all your heart, you see, like, well, I 0:21:15.700 --> 0:21:18.790 booked it. I must be off some sort of level 0:21:18.790 --> 0:21:20.770 in terms of the looks department, right? 0:21:20.869 --> 0:21:21.609 I must be hot. 0:21:22.060 --> 0:21:24.220 Okay, like you know, I said in a very 0:21:25.030 --> 0:21:28.830 specific kind of way, I'm not Beyonce. Right, right. Yeah, 0:21:29.030 --> 0:21:29.260 I 0:21:29.260 --> 0:21:33.040 definitely think so. And it is that vicious cycle. Yes, right? 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.890 Because it's something so hot to run away from this 0:21:35.890 --> 0:21:39.609 idea of beauty, right? Yeah. The more good-looking you are, 0:21:39.609 --> 0:21:41.709 there's definitely a lot more people who are going to 0:21:41.710 --> 0:21:44.950 be nice to you. And because of that, they will 0:21:44.950 --> 0:21:48.690 feel even more, you know, like that. They did great things, right? 0:21:48.730 --> 0:21:51.610 They feel like they are entitled to things. Yeah. And 0:21:51.609 --> 0:21:54.250 for me, it was something that I definitely what I 0:21:54.250 --> 0:21:57.490 felt very challenged by, especially when I entered the industry. 0:21:57.670 --> 0:21:59.649 There were many things I felt like I had to 0:21:59.650 --> 0:22:03.940 change about myself in terms of the looks, looks like 0:22:03.940 --> 0:22:05.379 I can tell you that a couple of things that 0:22:05.380 --> 0:22:07.899 I have, I have changed like my T. 0:22:08.890 --> 0:22:10.960 My my. Very nice to see. 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:12.780 The whole top row is not real. 0:22:13.750 --> 0:22:14.970 Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 0:22:15.430 --> 0:22:18.880 So right. I was so self-conscious about my cricket teeth 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.230 when I first got that. And then when I started 0:22:21.250 --> 0:22:23.320 making some money, then I said, I'm going to put 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.410 in money and invest in this and fix my teeth. 0:22:26.740 --> 0:22:29.020 And I know, like some people say, like, Oh, you 0:22:29.020 --> 0:22:31.690 shouldn't be doing it for other people, like you shouldn't 0:22:31.690 --> 0:22:33.820 be doing it. But I really felt like it was 0:22:33.820 --> 0:22:36.400 a little something that I did to help me at 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.270 least push my self-esteem. A little bit, of course. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.189 I mean, do it for yourself. If you think that 0:22:42.190 --> 0:22:43.840 it makes you feel better, it makes you more confident. 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:44.320 Why not? 0:22:44.380 --> 0:22:46.929 I'm very honest about it. Yeah, I'm very honest about it, 0:22:46.930 --> 0:22:49.810 and I'm very honest with the fact that if in 0:22:49.810 --> 0:22:52.510 the future there was an opportunity that I could get 0:22:52.510 --> 0:22:55.240 plus some sort of plastic surgery or fillers or whatever, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.510 IBO thoughts, whatever. Yeah, I'm very open and honest that 0:22:58.510 --> 0:23:00.430 I say I will consider. 0:23:00.460 --> 0:23:05.080 Yeah, I mean, of course, disclaimer as well these personal views. Yes, yes, definitely. 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:08.710 Consider things properly and carefully before you do anything big 0:23:08.710 --> 0:23:10.960 or drastic in your life as well. And I guess, 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:13.690 you know, veering away from what we've been talking about 0:23:13.690 --> 0:23:16.570 now is this day and age where beauty stands. It's 0:23:16.810 --> 0:23:19.179 a little bit different now, and you know, I like 0:23:19.180 --> 0:23:22.270 that the beauty industry and industry are starting to become 0:23:22.270 --> 0:23:24.310 a bit more inclusive, although obviously this is going to 0:23:24.310 --> 0:23:29.530 take some time, but it has definitely blurred the lines 0:23:29.590 --> 0:23:32.860 between what we used to think was beautiful and what 0:23:32.859 --> 0:23:35.890 should be considered beautiful right now, right? There's such a 0:23:35.890 --> 0:23:38.620 diverse way of seeing things right now. So do you 0:23:38.619 --> 0:23:41.830 think that in the media industry, it's it's going in 0:23:41.830 --> 0:23:44.200 that direction? Is it moving fast enough? What else can 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.530 we do to, you know, change the perception of beauty? 0:23:47.740 --> 0:23:51.040 Well, that's a difficult and loaded question. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad. 0:23:51.070 --> 0:23:54.520 I'm glad that I think definitely things keep things. I'm 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.430 very happy to see a lot more representation in Stephanie. 0:23:57.550 --> 0:24:00.820 Skin color, yes. And also size. I think that is 0:24:00.910 --> 0:24:05.980 two of them because I would say issues in the 0:24:05.980 --> 0:24:10.379 beauty industry that we we've we've faced for very, very long. 0:24:10.390 --> 0:24:15.610 Whether or not things are changing. I think it is, yes. 0:24:15.730 --> 0:24:18.699 But I think it's a very slow pace because I 0:24:18.700 --> 0:24:21.580 think we have been so inundated that we have fixed 0:24:21.580 --> 0:24:25.450 kind of what is beautiful kind of a model. Yeah. 0:24:25.810 --> 0:24:29.290 It is very difficult to kind of completely throw away 0:24:29.410 --> 0:24:33.830 years and years of like, you know, in greening that 0:24:33.830 --> 0:24:35.680 if you want to be beautiful, you must look like, 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:38.110 I said in a way. Yeah. Just take a look 0:24:38.109 --> 0:24:39.970 at the K-pop industry for right? 0:24:39.970 --> 0:24:40.350 Right. 0:24:40.510 --> 0:24:42.580 As much as they're very beautiful to look at, it 0:24:42.580 --> 0:24:47.179 is also very harmful to just look at the industry 0:24:47.180 --> 0:24:50.410 in itself, which is huge. Is a multibillion dollar industry, right? 0:24:50.740 --> 0:24:54.750 Just looking at the type of people they produce, yeah, 0:24:54.850 --> 0:24:57.130 they look a certain way that they look like they 0:24:57.130 --> 0:25:00.300 have to achieve, right? And that is it's scary. Like, 0:25:00.310 --> 0:25:04.169 it is very scary that that is the the ideal. Yeah, 0:25:04.190 --> 0:25:07.330 as much as we are trying to change it. There 0:25:07.330 --> 0:25:14.409 is still that permeating strength of like that ideal Korean 0:25:14.410 --> 0:25:17.109 or Korean look like that you have to achieve that. 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.360 Yeah, no, I totally agree. And because of the fact 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.330 that these celebrities are so messy and so commercial, right? 0:25:22.490 --> 0:25:24.460 You know, you have these kids growing up wanting to 0:25:24.460 --> 0:25:27.160 be like them or look exactly like them that, you know, 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.619 the whole idea of getting plastic surgery to look like 0:25:29.619 --> 0:25:32.800 a certain star or like, you know, making sure that I, 0:25:32.859 --> 0:25:34.930 I don't know, go for vitamin drips, whatever, to make 0:25:34.930 --> 0:25:36.520 your skin care, which, by the way, I don't think 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:37.480 is a lot in Singapore. 0:25:37.510 --> 0:25:39.950 It's not. It's not. Yeah, you can do it. Other countries, yeah. 0:25:40.109 --> 0:25:41.740 You know, I don't take it. 0:25:42.430 --> 0:25:45.129 You know, it becomes normalized, right? Right. I want to 0:25:45.130 --> 0:25:48.369 look a certain way. And this is this is what 0:25:48.369 --> 0:25:51.160 I don't know this celebrity K-pop celebrity users who have 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:54.850 such perfect skin, which in actual fact, maybe that's not 0:25:54.850 --> 0:25:57.580 really the truth. I don't know. But when you look 0:25:57.580 --> 0:25:59.590 at social media and when you scroll through and you 0:25:59.590 --> 0:26:01.900 see all these ads and stuff like that, do you 0:26:01.900 --> 0:26:06.010 feel inclined to buy a certain product when a very 0:26:06.010 --> 0:26:09.580 handsome or very pretty person is promoting it? 0:26:09.700 --> 0:26:13.300 Yeah, I think for me again, I'm lucky because working 0:26:13.300 --> 0:26:15.940 in this industry has given me an insight into how 0:26:15.940 --> 0:26:18.310 things work. Yes, right? It really does give me that 0:26:18.580 --> 0:26:21.190 external another lens. I don't have eyes to kind of 0:26:21.190 --> 0:26:25.119 look at it more objectively. And yeah, so in a 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.870 way for me, because I have that knowledge. I definitely 0:26:28.869 --> 0:26:32.380 look to what's, you know, people who are genuine. And 0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:35.189 I like people who are usually I don't really bite 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:38.770 into things from just a picture. Yeah, I like a video. 0:26:38.890 --> 0:26:42.490 If someone can, you know, really adequately explains things or 0:26:42.490 --> 0:26:45.370 like they genuinely like, show that they are, you know, 0:26:45.369 --> 0:26:45.840 they can 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:47.230 be a part of your life, correct? 0:26:47.350 --> 0:26:50.600 Yeah, it I feel more inclined to trust them more. 0:26:51.430 --> 0:26:54.070 So if it's just a picture I'm usually like, Aren't killer, really? 0:26:54.070 --> 0:26:57.220 Do I trust, you know? You, I think about it. 0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.820 I'm a bit more discerning as an audience. Yes. Whereas 0:27:00.970 --> 0:27:03.430 I can't say the same for everybody else. Right, right. 0:27:03.490 --> 0:27:06.310 I can't say the same for the majority of the 0:27:06.310 --> 0:27:09.399 people who don't work in our industry and don't realize 0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:13.689 that that there is a certain standard and needs to 0:27:13.690 --> 0:27:15.720 be achieved when it comes to these kind of acts 0:27:15.970 --> 0:27:18.890 and things. So I I'm a little bit more discerning 0:27:18.910 --> 0:27:20.590 now when it comes to these things, and that's something 0:27:20.590 --> 0:27:22.960 that I really even for me when I'm looking for 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:28.690 like new talent. Yeah, I tend to gravitate towards people 0:27:28.690 --> 0:27:32.229 who can speak better beyond just how good looking they 0:27:32.230 --> 0:27:35.560 are because I've met many people, right? Good looking beautiful. 0:27:35.650 --> 0:27:38.740 I don't know. Yeah. When they open your mouth, then 0:27:38.740 --> 0:27:39.520 open them up, which 0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:42.730 are, you know, Oh dear. So I really like 0:27:43.030 --> 0:27:45.730 suddenly right there is that dissonance between the look and 0:27:46.050 --> 0:27:51.030 represent themselves to me I like, especially for last video present. 0:27:51.450 --> 0:27:53.860 And it is so important that someone is able to 0:27:53.859 --> 0:27:55.140 speak and describe things. 0:27:55.150 --> 0:27:56.980 Of course, it is the nature of the job. I mean, 0:27:56.980 --> 0:28:00.070 it varies with different, you know, different industries as well. 0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:00.330 Yeah. 0:28:00.340 --> 0:28:02.620 So some influences, yeah, I mean, they can rely on 0:28:02.619 --> 0:28:05.830 the pretty yeah. Right? And some people, you know, they 0:28:05.830 --> 0:28:08.260 make money out of that power to them. Yeah, but 0:28:08.500 --> 0:28:12.400 as Judge Judy, once it gets beautiful, it's dumb is forever. 0:28:13.660 --> 0:28:14.930 And there we went there. 0:28:15.850 --> 0:28:19.010 Nobody. You know what you mentioned, actually, you know, resonates 0:28:19.010 --> 0:28:21.439 with me because as a content creator as well, when 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:24.320 now we have to do so much digital creation, right? 0:28:24.859 --> 0:28:27.230 You know, there will be clients coming to you saying like, OK, 0:28:27.830 --> 0:28:29.990 you know, you need to promote this particular skincare or 0:28:30.020 --> 0:28:32.840 whatever it is or whatever. And I realize, you know, 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:37.040 just looking at other influences, I'm not shitting on anyone. 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:37.820 You're not 0:28:38.860 --> 0:28:42.320 seeing anyone. But, you know, sometimes when you get so 0:28:43.130 --> 0:28:46.550 saturated with content of people seeing this product works, I mean, 0:28:46.550 --> 0:28:48.560 this product with me, I also find it like, Oh 0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:52.550 my gosh, am I coming across this way as an influencer? Because, 0:28:52.550 --> 0:28:54.739 you know, if you are a person of influence or 0:28:54.740 --> 0:28:57.350 perceived to be, there will be a certain amount people 0:28:57.350 --> 0:28:59.660 who might invest like, I don't know, three or four 0:28:59.660 --> 0:29:02.420 hundred dollars in this product that you just promoted on 0:29:02.420 --> 0:29:04.550 your social media. Right. And I also do want to 0:29:04.550 --> 0:29:06.350 be a fraud. You know, I want to make sure 0:29:06.350 --> 0:29:08.209 that I try to product and make sure that I 0:29:08.210 --> 0:29:11.180 like it before I can, before I know what to 0:29:11.180 --> 0:29:13.160 say about it. All right, social media and I feel 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:16.300 like that's as much as I can do horse. You know, 0:29:16.310 --> 0:29:18.560 my own way of trying to show that is part 0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:21.410 of my life. And it's not just, I don't know, 0:29:21.410 --> 0:29:24.470 holding a product and then chucking it aside after 0:29:24.500 --> 0:29:27.170 it is our responsibility. I think it's sure to be 0:29:27.170 --> 0:29:30.470 as authentic and honest about what we I know. Sometimes 0:29:31.190 --> 0:29:34.160 money comes stuff and you just take jobs based on, 0:29:34.340 --> 0:29:36.110 I mean, how do you if you need that money 0:29:36.110 --> 0:29:38.480 and you need that, that's fine. But for me, I 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.210 do agree with you. My personal philosophy is I do 0:29:41.210 --> 0:29:45.140 have to actually try. The product actually is really like 0:29:45.140 --> 0:29:47.780 the product before I can put it on my, my, my, 0:29:47.780 --> 0:29:48.350 my page. 0:29:48.380 --> 0:29:51.470 No, I totally agree. But you know, hey, it is 0:29:51.470 --> 0:29:54.740 a very challenging industry. I will say at times, and 0:29:55.070 --> 0:29:59.060 it's tough to really have that balance at times as well. OK, 0:29:59.060 --> 0:30:02.120 so before we wrap things up, I just have one 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.470 more question here for you. So in a few cases, 0:30:05.870 --> 0:30:10.610 pretty women are seen as less competitive, according to certain research, 0:30:11.030 --> 0:30:15.350 and always having the easy way out, apparently. What do 0:30:15.350 --> 0:30:19.459 you feel about that statement? And, for example, for men, 0:30:19.490 --> 0:30:22.880 they're given more concessions even when they make mistakes, because 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:26.989 attractive men tend to be seen as more competent and ambitious. 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:31.430 We live in a very patriarchal society, and this is 0:30:31.430 --> 0:30:33.830 a reality that a lot of us have had to 0:30:33.830 --> 0:30:37.310 fight with LA. And even for me, I don't typically 0:30:37.310 --> 0:30:42.440 find myself in more masculine spectrum. Often men. Yeah, right? 0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:45.290 Even for me, I do feel I get judged because 0:30:45.290 --> 0:30:48.440 I'm not the typical kind of men. So I find 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:52.040 I find that for being a woman, it's even harder 0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:55.070 for that because there is like a hierarchy in terms 0:30:55.070 --> 0:30:59.600 of this whole idea of what it means to be masculine, feminine, right, 0:30:59.780 --> 0:31:03.170 the most masculine of men, usually the one seen with 0:31:03.170 --> 0:31:05.780 the most power. Then it trickles down right as the 0:31:05.780 --> 0:31:09.620 less masculine you are, the less, I guess, benefits you 0:31:09.620 --> 0:31:13.100 get from society. I think for women, right, they have 0:31:13.100 --> 0:31:16.640 had to work even harder just to kind of fight. 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:17.650 That proved tricky. 0:31:17.820 --> 0:31:19.990 Right? OK, it's almost impossible. Yeah, yeah. 0:31:19.990 --> 0:31:22.490 Yeah, it's so impossible. As much as like we can see, like, 0:31:22.490 --> 0:31:24.650 you know, we're going to work for like equality and stuff. 0:31:25.130 --> 0:31:26.060 It's a long journey. 0:31:26.060 --> 0:31:30.200 It is very long is until I the older generation dies. 0:31:30.470 --> 0:31:32.810 But even then we have the older generation, even if 0:31:32.810 --> 0:31:35.060 they die, right? If they managed to pass down that 0:31:35.060 --> 0:31:40.050 kind of mindset that men are better than women. OK, yeah. Yeah, 0:31:40.190 --> 0:31:42.530 we're not going to get out this cycle. Yeah, right? 0:31:42.710 --> 0:31:47.450 It's tough. So it's scary just because of your gender. 0:31:47.450 --> 0:31:52.070 You already have certain challenges in place in front of 0:31:52.070 --> 0:31:53.600 you that you never even asked for. 0:31:53.630 --> 0:31:56.630 Yeah, right. And I think, you know, sometimes in certain industries, 0:31:56.630 --> 0:32:00.620 especially for people who are exceptionally good looking in the industry, right? 0:32:01.010 --> 0:32:03.950 I once I had a friend who is working in 0:32:03.950 --> 0:32:07.520 the medical industry, right? He is a doctor surgeon. OK, 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:11.960 very serious. Like, it's like, literally, you know, the job 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:15.620 is to save lives and critical surgeries. But the catch 0:32:15.620 --> 0:32:20.960 is he's so good looking. So as a result, he 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.950 has to wear a mask all the time, even during consults. 0:32:24.950 --> 0:32:28.100 And just wait. Wait, why? Because he said that every 0:32:28.100 --> 0:32:31.100 time he doesn't, because he also is. He looks quite young, 0:32:31.100 --> 0:32:33.320 even though he is older than people think. And he's 0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:36.370 also very good looking. People don't trust him. Oh, my goodness. Yes, 0:32:36.410 --> 0:32:39.200 they're like, Yeah. So I mean, I have to say, 0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:42.200 like for some people who have, I just blessed that 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:46.430 born with exceptional good looks in certain industries, people actually 0:32:46.430 --> 0:32:49.210 don't trust them. I mean, this is not a blanket statement, 0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:52.160 but for my particular friend who who experienced these things, 0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:54.590 I can't imagine he might not be the only person. 0:32:54.890 --> 0:32:57.460 This is going to feel this way. You know, and 0:32:57.860 --> 0:33:01.340 it's just, oh, like if you're in this serious industry, 0:33:01.340 --> 0:33:03.560 maybe if you're all, I better get an older doctor. 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:07.610 Maybe he's more right, you know, more seasoned, more experienced, 0:33:07.610 --> 0:33:09.980 or this doctor also good-looking. How can be doctor must 0:33:09.980 --> 0:33:12.620 be a him boy, you know, and that kind of mindset. 0:33:12.620 --> 0:33:15.230 So I don't know whether like obviously once again, it 0:33:15.230 --> 0:33:18.160 applies to. Everyone, but this is just based on my 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:20.410 friend's experience over in the medical 0:33:20.410 --> 0:33:21.890 field, that's that's so 0:33:22.170 --> 0:33:23.030 which is interesting. 0:33:23.110 --> 0:33:26.620 It's so interesting that it is now industry specific, right? 0:33:26.650 --> 0:33:29.740 Because like the blanket idea would be if you are 0:33:29.740 --> 0:33:33.100 good looking, people would trust you more. Maybe for someone 0:33:33.100 --> 0:33:35.270 who is going to potentially save your life, you look 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:37.330 for the one who is older. 0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:38.110 Yeah. 0:33:38.350 --> 0:33:41.770 Who might equate to my experience, right? Oh yeah. Very 0:33:41.770 --> 0:33:44.440 destructor life, my doctor. So good looking, you know. OK, why? 0:33:44.450 --> 0:33:47.470 If you imagine if you are getting surgery right, would 0:33:47.490 --> 0:33:49.750 you want to be distracted by him? Yes. Why you 0:33:49.750 --> 0:33:50.740 want for you to be like 0:33:51.300 --> 0:33:53.709 you will see like the places that he I don't 0:33:53.710 --> 0:33:58.120 want you to see. I mean, I know why I'd 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:01.610 rather not go there. No, that's just how I view 0:34:01.780 --> 0:34:01.960 that 0:34:02.020 --> 0:34:05.450 is now very interesting. It's a whole new ball game 0:34:05.470 --> 0:34:08.530 all together that now it is very industry specific. Yeah, 0:34:08.530 --> 0:34:12.460 I've never really thought about until we have had this conversation. 0:34:12.540 --> 0:34:14.410 Yeah. So I mean, maybe our next episode, we should 0:34:14.410 --> 0:34:17.440 invite a really hot doctor. Not for my benefit is 0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:19.239 for our viewers. 0:34:19.270 --> 0:34:22.480 Exactly. For my if you watch the video, exactly. You 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.200 see what an interesting conversation we had today. Honestly, I 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:29.070 felt like we talked for four hours or something of it. Yeah. 0:34:29.860 --> 0:34:32.410 Anything else you want to leave with our audience, you know, 0:34:32.620 --> 0:34:36.940 even if it comes to, say, self-confidence or self-esteem issues 0:34:36.940 --> 0:34:38.560 and stuff like that, which a lot of us still 0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:39.360 struggle with to. 0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:44.500 I think if your personality is ninety nine percent, your 0:34:44.620 --> 0:34:47.319 your looks. I think you really should reflect on your 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:49.719 life a little bit more because I think in life 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:53.200 it's very hot to just course on by without some 0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:55.750 sort of talent and always have self, you know, something 0:34:55.750 --> 0:34:58.120 that you can be proud of. It's always nice to 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.069 go and put in a lot of effort in whatever 0:35:00.070 --> 0:35:03.640 you're doing, regardless of how well you look, how nice 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:06.520 you look, right? And if you put in the effort, 0:35:07.090 --> 0:35:10.239 you will get somewhere. Yeah, you have success. Yeah, and 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:12.790 self-esteem and all these things, right? It is a journey. 0:35:12.790 --> 0:35:14.620 Even for me. It is still is a work in 0:35:14.620 --> 0:35:18.009 progress to feel more confident about myself, right? Sometimes I 0:35:18.010 --> 0:35:19.390 think like I want to do, I sound a little 0:35:19.390 --> 0:35:22.240 bit too high pitch or like, you know, do I 0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:24.940 sound whiny or do I look like too old to 0:35:24.940 --> 0:35:27.730 tie it? It is a work in progress, and it 0:35:27.730 --> 0:35:29.920 is something that at the end of the day, you 0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:33.880 need to find value in your life beyond just ascribing 0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:35.170 it to how you look. 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:36.609 Yeah. And I think at the end of the day 0:35:36.610 --> 0:35:39.670 as well, when we watch videos of their photos, you know, 0:35:39.670 --> 0:35:41.650 and you like, pick on certain things, I think we're 0:35:41.650 --> 0:35:44.980 just like, we're hypocritical of ourselves, and maybe we just 0:35:44.980 --> 0:35:46.660 have to learn how to let go and not be 0:35:46.660 --> 0:35:49.270 so conscious about like, Oh, that I don't know what 0:35:49.270 --> 0:35:51.700 that wrinkle or that like. I don't know what it 0:35:51.700 --> 0:35:52.980 is that I mean. 0:35:53.090 --> 0:35:55.540 OK, stop, stop. I know. 0:35:55.810 --> 0:35:57.620 And also, like a lot of people out there watching, right, 0:35:57.670 --> 0:36:00.790 I think honestly, I don't take everything you see on 0:36:00.790 --> 0:36:03.940 the internet like Facebook. Yes, right. There's a lot of 0:36:03.940 --> 0:36:07.840 things that goes into creating this content, whether it's Photoshop 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:10.989 law or this, that no bill ever. There's a lot 0:36:10.989 --> 0:36:12.759 of things that goes on behind the scenes that you 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:15.310 may not know. So just don't take it at face 0:36:15.310 --> 0:36:19.060 value and trust 100 percent. Be more discerning. Yes, I 0:36:19.060 --> 0:36:21.460 think I would like to encourage. Oh, I would like 0:36:21.460 --> 0:36:25.509 to advocate for more discerning viewers and audience members, because 0:36:25.510 --> 0:36:28.810 then it will make the social media basically be like 0:36:28.930 --> 0:36:33.439 own self on the check, on the people on social media. Yeah, 0:36:33.489 --> 0:36:36.850 in a sense, you be that checks and balances. Yes. 0:36:37.060 --> 0:36:40.640 To create a more holistic social media landscape 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:43.360 and a healthier one is yes, you know, it's getting 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.990 so toxic in some places out there. So, yeah, thank 0:36:46.989 --> 0:36:47.440 you so much 0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:49.299 for being with us today. Thank you for having me. 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:49.930 We have to 0:36:49.930 --> 0:36:53.170 hang out again soon. Yes, especially when we get said 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:54.939 Hot Doctor in the studio. 0:36:55.180 --> 0:36:57.940 I will be going to yes, you will be cam 0:36:57.940 --> 0:36:59.299 for Cam 0:36:59.430 --> 0:37:01.690 or you can be the boom Mike. Yes. Which, by 0:37:01.690 --> 0:37:02.820 the way, we don't need a boom. I hold it, 0:37:02.830 --> 0:37:03.310 but we'll call 0:37:03.310 --> 0:37:05.290 it a rule. I will create a room for you. 0:37:06.850 --> 0:37:08.500 Thank you so much once again for listening 0:37:08.500 --> 0:37:11.230 to this episode of Men. Explain now, if you like 0:37:11.230 --> 0:37:13.900 this episode as much as we did, please hit the 0:37:13.900 --> 0:37:17.680 follow button. We're on Spotify and Apple podcast, and also 0:37:17.890 --> 0:37:20.650 please follow us at its Clarity Echo on Instagram and 0:37:20.650 --> 0:37:23.530 Facebook for more content like this. Till then, we'll see 0:37:23.530 --> 0:37:24.100 you next time.