S1: Hey, what's going on, Sonia, with you? Welcome to another
S1: episode of men. Explain.
S2: Do they have a very special guest? He's fuzzy, like
S3: I haven't Pallavi, I am a hotel personality at a
S3: smart local. People know me for doing stupid things on
S3: the internet. And you know what? I'm very proud to
S3: say that I'm I'm very happy with what I'm doing
S3: at the moment.
S2: You know what? Congratulations. Yeah. Inspired it in life. Embrace it. Right?
S1: I mean, success is very, very subjective as well. All
S1: of us have different perceptions of it. Today's a bit
S1: of an extension of a previous episode because 30 minutes,
S1: 40 minutes, it wasn't enough. Do you think looks will
S1: help you accelerate your career?
S3: Well, to be honest, I think like the fact that
S3: immediate right means not so important.
S2: Oh no, no, no, no, no. Beauty is subjective.
S3: OK, love. I mean, it is something that everybody knows
S3: the right looks. Definitely. Yeah. A fact, though when it
S3: comes to our industry, there are outliers with the I
S3: would say. I mean, I am an outlier. I would
S3: say I'm not the most conventionally good looking individual, you know,
S3: I mean, people make fun of me on the internet
S3: or be having like receding hairline, la my forehead to
S3: beat la north to big double chin.
S2: You know what?
S3: Honestly, I've come to that. Just take it in my stride. Yeah,
S3: and just ignore it. But I mean, at the back
S3: of my mind, yeah, that things, of course, that I
S3: am very insecure about, especially because we look in such
S3: a judgmental fashion.
S2: I don't know where it's going to go. Critical, yeah. Critical.
S3: And also a visual. Yes, yes, you're right. Where everything
S3: we are doing is is visual. Yeah, yeah. So it's
S3: a bit challenging for me to say that it doesn't matter.
S1: So, so then that begs the question, you know, based
S1: on whatever you're seeing right now, why did you go
S1: into this line and industry? I mean, was just wondering,
S1: just wondering.
S3: Honestly, it wasn't a choice. I think when I first
S3: started out at my local, I was actually in editorial,
S3: so I was writing. Nobody's going to see my face.
S3: They're going to see my name. That's about it, right? Article,
S3: you know, just talk about, you know, the things you
S3: did in Singapore. But of course, the way we first
S3: started out, when I first started out around seven years ago,
S3: we were not launching a YouTube channel. But when that
S3: started out, I started being on it, right?
S2: Let you be on camera right now. It wasn't like
S2: much like that
S3: because the philosophy is they wanted to get everyday people
S3: to be on camera and do things and try things,
S3: and you get very organic reactions from that love. And
S3: that was kind of where I started in that. In
S3: a sense, it
S1: is amazing to see how, like seven years went by
S1: seven or eight years, for example, and things have changed.
S1: The landscape has changed. Yeah, but obviously, you know, the
S1: overarching topic here today about good looks. I just want
S1: to kick it off by asking you this question as well.
S1: How important are good looks to you? I mean, you
S1: can be straight up and honest you, because we don't
S1: we have no filter on this show.
S3: I love that. Yeah, in terms of what in terms
S3: of light, you know,
S2: relationship candles, yes, we need of work.
S3: Wow. Interesting. How important?
S1: Can we start with? How important is do in relationships?
S2: Oh my god. Go ahead.
S1: Go straight. And then we think about a notch. Okay.
S1: Talk about in the workplace.
S3: All right. Relationships, how important. I think. I don't know
S3: how to say it is important for sure, but it's
S3: important that I use that. Yeah. No, I find that
S3: person attractive. Yes. Right, right. Nowadays, if all these dating
S2: apps and all
S3: these dating apps, yeah, you're obviously going to judge a
S3: person based on the looks like I'm going to be honest,
S3: like every single person in this world is superficial. Right?
S3: If you still if you say you're not superficial, you're lying.
S2: Exactly. Yeah, I'm going to call you out, man. Yeah, yeah, no.
S3: So everybody is some level of superficial, right? And I'm
S3: definitely going to admit that I am and I am
S3: a fierce person first.
S2: When anything else?
S3: Yeah, when I when I meet someone, I like to
S3: see a good face.
S2: Right, right. Who doesn't like you?
S1: To some extent? I mean, when you, for example, when
S1: you go to clubs and clubs were a thing, right?
S1: Distant memory, by the way. You know, obviously you wouldn't
S1: be attracted physically to someone first before you pick up
S1: a conversation. Right, right. And then you figure out, Oh,
S1: maybe this person, media personality, or maybe the fact that
S1: this person is in my time or I don't like
S1: his or her character, then OK, forget it. Like then
S1: it looks. Or Meadow goes, I'm right to this person.
S3: Yeah, but with that fear, right? Yeah, it really depends
S3: from person to person, right? Someone might find someone attractive,
S3: but another person might completely disagree.
S1: Oh, 100 percent. My friends don't agree with my choice
S2: in general, actually, to be honest, I'm still I'm fine.
S2: So that's good that we don't, Chris, go right back
S2: over the same people.
S3: Exactly that. But that's the beauty about it, right? That
S3: it is very subjective. It is also another offshoot from
S3: that topic is beauty is very much, I think, nowadays
S3: very closely linked to ethnicity as well. OK. Yeah, very
S3: interesting because different ethnic groups may be seen as less attractive.
S3: Oh yeah. And that's a whole nother like, you know,
S3: different discourse that we needed thought about,
S1: you know, runs deep.
S2: Yeah, exactly that.
S3: But that is I think I think like a lot
S3: of us, we ascribe the what we ascribe, what beautiful
S3: is based on certain expectations provided to us by the media,
S3: either like, you must look like K-pop style. So for example,
S3: but of course, you know the example I always use,
S3: Asian people always want to look white to right fat,
S3: and then western people always want to look tan, right?
S3: If like, we just not happy with ourselves
S1: since we're going to move into the workplace very soon.
S1: I also recall a time where I auditioned for a OK,
S1: I'm not going to say the company OK, but I
S1: auditioned for like some sort of a reporter role, like
S1: a presenter role, OK? And it was going to be
S1: kind of a semi-permanent thing. So I have to go
S1: back like maybe two, three times a week to do
S1: stuff with this company is pretty big company. OK, OK.
S1: And they were saying, Oh, they want to diversify and
S1: stuff like that, right? So then when I went for
S1: the audition, I started out to be honest. OK, OK. Yeah,
S1: I hardly ever say this. But sometimes when you get
S1: a good feeling about what you did, I mean, it's
S1: fine to admit it. You know that you aced the
S1: whatever you were supposed to do. I got the feedback
S1: after that, according to the senior producer, he was like,
S1: Your eyes are too oriental.
S2: Oh yeah, that's what
S1: your eyes to orient those. So it's not really our vibe.
S1: And I was like, I know. And you know what?
S1: For that moment, I was like, You know what? I felt?
S1: I don't know. I just really felt taken aback by
S1: what he said to my face as well. So say,
S1: you know what? No regrets. I don't think I want
S1: to work for this company anyway. Goodbye. You kind of situation. Yeah. So,
S1: so since we're on the topic of the workplace as
S1: well and you're in the workplace, I mean, all the
S1: time you're surrounded by different people. Does it play a
S1: part like, let's say, a better looking person or who
S1: is perceived to be better looking comes along? Do you
S1: find it easier to be like, Oh yeah, OK, I
S1: think this person can do the job. Oh yeah, I
S1: trust this colleague. Oh yeah, I want to work with
S1: this colleague more because this person looks better. Have you
S1: ever felt that way?
S3: Not only have I felt that way, yes,
S2: you've done it. No, no.
S3: I've also like felt like I am worse off for
S3: the job. Oh no. Yeah. So I'm a bit like
S3: most self-deprecating as a as an individual. Sometimes I use
S3: it as like a joke line. I use it to
S3: like my real pain and
S2: it hurts
S1: inside right on the
S2: inside. Exactly.
S3: But you know, it's the truth that sometimes when someone
S3: who is younger, better looking and fresher in coming into
S3: the industry, right? So always be exactly that. And there's
S3: no there's no way you can feel you don't feel
S3: like a little bit of like envy. Yeah, right. And
S3: I'm going to emulate so many people I meet from.
S3: Day to date, I meet that they are all like,
S3: so fresh, so young, they're all ready to take on
S3: the world, right?
S2: Then your metabolism? Yeah, I don't think like, Oh, that
S2: was me, like seven years ago. No, but
S3: I'm actually very glad. I'm very aware, right? Some people
S3: are not aware of these things and they act up. Yeah,
S3: I'm very hyper aware about my feelings and my emotions.
S3: I'm very in touch with what I feel when I
S3: meet someone new that I actually have, you know, actively
S3: made the decision that you know what? Yeah, there is
S3: an expiry date for what I do. Of course. Yeah,
S3: that is exactly that. And I say, like, you know what?
S3: That's fine, then that's where I start pivoting myself to work,
S3: you know, being more of a mentor, more behind the
S3: scenes stuff. That's the natural progression for for this job,
S3: I feel, or maybe I do more important things. I
S3: talk to the minister that, yeah,
S2: yeah, that kind of stuff.
S3: I do less. I know frivolous things do more the
S3: more important things in terms of like looks right and
S3: when deciding whether someone is better off at doing the job,
S3: you feel a little bit more trust in, you know,
S3: allowing them to take the job, you know, I mean,
S3: they do need to look to put together like if,
S3: let's say, they come in and look like they just
S3: woke up, I just put on whatever they found in
S3: their closet or whatever, and
S2: anyone in the closet may be on the floor floor.
S2: I know.
S3: And if they come in right again, I think first impressions,
S3: of course, is not only just about the looks. Yeah,
S3: it's about everything. The whole package, right?
S1: No, you put it really well, because when it comes
S1: to being presentable, it really just boils down to a
S1: common you have properly or let you know your shit
S1: is either high. Clearly, you take
S2: care of yourself.
S1: It's more of a personal hygiene kind of thing. And
S1: it also gives off a better impression that, oh, this
S1: person knows how to take care of him or herself
S1: and perhaps maybe is more disciplined and that somebody that
S1: I want on my team. That's how people feel, especially
S1: in interviews like first impressions, right? Is the same as
S1: dating first impressions
S3: in that snap of like meeting that first. But the
S3: person right beside you, that person has already formed the
S3: judgment of you. Yeah, right. Whether they would like to
S3: continue with the date. Yeah, whether they they think that
S3: you are ready to take on the job. It is
S3: so important that when the moment you walk in right,
S3: there is some sort of good impression that you're leaving. Yeah.
S1: So I'm going to pull up this research. I was
S1: actually done quite a while ago, in 1986, even in
S3: 1996, I was
S2: seven. OK, this professor
S1: actually found that attractive workers were rewarded with nine percent
S1: higher salary for men and five percent more salary for women.
S1: And furthermore, the most recent one in 2021, almost like
S1: a follow up of some source shows that both male
S1: and female who are higher on the beauty skill were
S1: more likely to lend themselves the job of their choice first.
S1: So I guess, you know, the question is, do you
S1: think based on our experiences, I'm not sure how many
S1: jobs you've applied for? Right, right, right. Maybe I do
S1: have a story to share, but maybe you can share
S1: with me first. Did you feel like there was any
S1: sort of struggle at all in applying for jobs? And
S1: I don't know in your journey. Hmm. Yeah, so far
S3: in a way, yes. I don't have any specific examples,
S3: but I've always when coming to interviews and stuff, I've
S3: always had that a mindset, right? You know, you're not
S3: going to be the best looking person, so you're going
S3: to shine with your personality, right? You're going to be
S3: as candid and as honest and as, you know, authentic
S3: as possible.
S1: Charismatic.
S3: Exactly that. I've always had that mindset. I think maybe
S3: because I grew up like knowing like I if you
S3: put me in a room with 10 guys, I would
S3: probably be number nine on them. 10, right? Well, again,
S3: very self-deprecating. I'm fine on my personality.
S2: OK, OK with that, right?
S3: So I've had that mindset. I mean, I'm honest with myself.
S3: I know that my my plus point is in my looks.
S3: My plus point is in my personality and how I'm
S3: able to talk, basically. So that's always been the case
S3: when I go to interviews and always been to use
S3: my brains office than anything else.
S1: So basically picking up on what you said, right? Mentioning
S1: that sometimes when you go into an interview or I
S1: don't know, a meeting or whatever it may be that
S1: you have to rely more on your personality and really
S1: like and that you say, make up for other certain things.
S1: Do you feel like that's a burden to you to
S1: weigh heavily on you? Do you wish
S3: otherwise? Maybe because I think I've been doing this for
S3: so long, it's no longer. But then maybe because I
S3: think it's become like part and parcel of why I
S3: do a lot is I become a routine in that sense, right?
S3: But for sure, I think when I first started out there,
S3: there were times when I felt like, especially when you
S3: are pit against another person and then there's always that
S3: sense of competition where you know someone else gets and
S3: gets a job easier or they get picked instantly for in.
S3: No job in question,
S1: why
S2: exactly that
S3: and deep down, sometimes I always think like a I
S3: have maybe if not more skill sets, you know, it's
S3: a similar skill set of the person. Why am I
S3: not picked? Yeah. Is it because someone who looks better
S3: than me? And again, like, it's one of those things that,
S3: you know, it really chipped away at my self-confidence that
S3: I slowly chipped away. You don't really realize it, but
S3: it's deep down in your mind. One way I did
S3: overcome it is that there are there are other things
S3: that you can look forward through, even if you don't
S3: get that particular job. There are other people and other,
S3: you know, maybe brands, for example, that will resonate with
S3: you despite, you know, whether you you seem conventionally beautiful
S3: or not. So I choose to, you know, really look
S3: at aligning myself with people who appreciate me for my
S3: personality and for the branding that I can help them
S3: create beyond just the brand appreciates me because I look
S3: good to me. It doesn't really add value to my
S3: life in that sense.
S1: So a while ago, before influencers even existed, do you
S1: remember this, a frozen yogurt stock off frolic?
S2: Of course I you know, of course
S3: you know about it. If you are from our generation,
S3: you would know what it is. Yeah, okay. It was
S3: known for hiring just jobs.
S2: So I'm I'm probably everyone looks at me like this again.
S1: Your family doesn't even exist anymore, does it doesn't. I mean, unfortunately,
S1: long time ago, they I think they folded a couple
S1: of years ago. But during that time, I think I
S1: was like, what, 18 years old or something like that?
S1: You know, we we knew of this frozen yogurt stone.
S1: And I was actually recommended by a friend, she said.
S1: Actually not betting on that. You just do this. You know,
S1: you just sold a yogurt, by the way. That is
S1: a skill, OK? I hate it. When people steal your
S1: you is empty in the middle market.
S2: Still be full, OK?
S1: Right?
S2: The point is
S1: she was like, Oh, all you have to do is
S1: to go for this interview with one of the one
S1: of the owners who is, I guess, the hiring person.
S1: And it was this guy, and I really kind of
S1: knew like I looked at the girls there and back
S1: then got no social media, no Instagram, no Instagram, right?
S1: And I was like, Well, they're also kind of like cute,
S1: you know? And it was just Facebook back then, and
S1: you can still go stop worry. Like, Oh, they're also
S1: like cute and I'm pretty. So then I went in
S1: and back then I had really short hair. OK, really, really,
S1: really short hair. And it was like a pixie cut. OK.
S1: I was wondering like, Oh my gosh, I don't know
S1: whether they were like, Think that I'm not cute enough
S1: or feminine enough or whatever. But anyway, like, I went
S1: there and within five minutes she was like, OK, yeah,
S1: you can start work on like, whatever, whatever. He didn't
S1: ask me much.
S2: So no skill set required.
S1: Exactly did. Even as we just saw gut. No. Oh no,
S2: no, no, no, you don't. You just learn on the job.
S1: But I thought, you know, that was one of the
S1: examples where obviously they were looking for a certain type
S1: of rice, right? And then the skills are secondary. I mean,
S1: you know, they become next to like whether or not
S1: you're a good you, a good swallow, you're a good
S1: fruit cutter because we have to cut fruit to not
S1: just for you guys to cut fruits as well and
S1: pour the toppings, you know, into the relative roses and
S1: stuff like that. And also on top of that customer service.
S1: So I realize that beyond, you know, looking cute or
S1: looking good, I'm not saying I cute or what, but
S1: it's subjective. Once again, you also have to carry it
S1: on with your skills.
S3: Well, honestly, a frolic brings back memories, man. It really is.
S3: It's like not only about the looks right, but the
S3: girls who are serving the yoga. How you all had
S3: a bad rep really being a bitch?
S2: Know how you feel. Do you have a resting bitch face? Yes.
S2: It's like you think customer service, like customer service. I
S2: think you get maybe a text that said, that's so funny.
S1: I guess when it comes to hiring since I talked
S1: about my hiring process, which lasted all of five minutes.
S1: Are you involved in the hiring process at all? At all?
S2: A little bit of it.
S3: I used to be a lot more nowadays. I not
S3: as much anymore, but yeah, I used to be. And
S3: they are couple things like that. You need to tick
S3: off before. Well, I, you know, before I say, like, Okay,
S3: I'm going to put you through. Yeah, I'm going to
S3: give you a little bit more attention. OK. So usually
S3: I don't really care as it usually when they send
S3: like their resumes, right? I don't really care about the pictures.
S3: They put pictures, right? I don't really care because for me,
S3: that first part, right, I'm always looking at our portfolio. Yeah.
S3: The portfolio is good. Yeah. Usually the first thing that
S3: convinces me. But when they come to the interviews, that's
S3: when I stop paying attention. So I tell you kind
S3: of know that a culture is very casual, right? So
S3: usually there are a couple of things that I get
S3: a little I get a little bit like,
S2: I love, you know, a little bit happy. OK, let
S2: me
S3: reflect, not really reflect a little bit of a pet
S3: peeve is when they come dressed in like suits. Oh, right.
S3: And I'm like, This are not appropriate, you know, applying
S3: for a finance job.
S2: Oh no, you don't say, What do I do wrong? Yeah,
S2: my best. No, but sometimes
S3: you need to. Pay attention research, yeah. About the culture
S3: that you're working at. It's nice to for you to
S3: dress appropriately, la and school. It's very simple to just
S3: put on something nice and dress up. Comb your hair
S3: look like you are put together every single thing you
S3: do from the moment you walked into the office for
S3: the interview. People notice from how nice you treat the reception, lady.
S1: I agree with what you said, you know, even in
S1: our industry. I love it. When you know artists and celebrities,
S1: we are. Also, we should be nice to the fashion people,
S1: for example. I mean, I came from a background where
S1: I was in film production. My dad runs a film
S1: production company, ran a film board, actually company. And I
S1: was also like doing a lot of stuff like filming
S1: and carrying a tripod, all that kind of stuff. And
S1: you can see how people treat you sometimes like they
S1: don't give a shit about you. But some people are
S1: set apart by the fact that they want to help
S1: you out or they, you know, they're nice to you
S1: and stuff like that. And that says a lot of
S1: somebodies character and personality, whether you want them on your team.
S3: It's true. It's true. And to me, that trumps how
S3: good-looking you are. You are an asshole, right? Yeah. No
S3: matter how good-looking you are, sorry.
S2: You know, for me, it's a hundred percent. Anyway, I'm
S2: just going to kick you out. Exactly.
S1: I mean, it also reminds me of Abercrombie and Fitch.
S1: I don't know, right? But when they were still here,
S1: the exit it already. Yes.
S3: Yes. No. I heard they're coming back, you know, coming back. Oh, guys,
S3: at the same place what I thought?
S2: Go ahead. Look it up. It was in the news.
S2: What do you think? We'll see? I first laid down
S2: if I you have a
S3: real and then did they're going to enter again into
S3: the market? I don't know why.
S1: Why do you remember? Like, have you ever walked into
S1: like NFL? Did you feel intimidated?
S2: All the good looking people? Yeah, I never want to
S2: walk into it in that book.
S1: I just feel like I don't know, guys. I feel
S1: so nervous. I just walk
S3: out. I feel like a troll when I walk
S2: in there, but you
S1: see for it. That is also a classic example of
S1: hiring people based on their looks, right? And I think
S1: in the recent years as well, they were put under
S1: the spotlight for and they were heavily criticized as well
S1: for doing this and for objectifying their staff members who
S1: are meant to be the sales staff. You and I
S1: had friends working, and back then it was kind of
S1: like the the Knicks frolic on the higher and the
S1: more I thought it was right, you know, the. So
S1: there was so much interest in doing that job because
S1: the thing is, I don't know whether it's about validation,
S1: but the moment you get hired, you're like, Oh, I'm
S1: hot or like, I don't know, what do you think?
S1: That could be one of the reasons?
S2: Oh, well, snap what?
S3: So basically, right, by getting hired, you're essentially stroking their
S3: egos
S2: in
S1: some way. I don't know this. By the way, these
S1: are personal views.
S2: So in disclaimer, I'm
S3: pretty sure that that in some way, yeah, there is
S3: some truth to that. For example, if you get you
S3: get booked for like a modeling gig. Yes. Yeah, obviously,
S3: there's some sort of you that deep down in your
S3: mind and all your heart, you see, like, well, I
S3: booked it. I must be off some sort of level
S3: in terms of the looks department, right?
S1: I must be hot.
S3: Okay, like you know, I said in a very
S2: specific kind of way, I'm not Beyonce. Right, right. Yeah,
S2: I
S3: definitely think so. And it is that vicious cycle. Yes, right?
S3: Because it's something so hot to run away from this
S3: idea of beauty, right? Yeah. The more good-looking you are,
S3: there's definitely a lot more people who are going to
S3: be nice to you. And because of that, they will
S3: feel even more, you know, like that. They did great things, right?
S3: They feel like they are entitled to things. Yeah. And
S3: for me, it was something that I definitely what I
S3: felt very challenged by, especially when I entered the industry.
S3: There were many things I felt like I had to
S3: change about myself in terms of the looks, looks like
S3: I can tell you that a couple of things that
S3: I have, I have changed like my T.
S2: My my. Very nice to see.
S3: The whole top row is not real.
S2: Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
S3: So right. I was so self-conscious about my cricket teeth
S3: when I first got that. And then when I started
S3: making some money, then I said, I'm going to put
S3: in money and invest in this and fix my teeth.
S3: And I know, like some people say, like, Oh, you
S3: shouldn't be doing it for other people, like you shouldn't
S3: be doing it. But I really felt like it was
S3: a little something that I did to help me at
S3: least push my self-esteem. A little bit, of course.
S1: I mean, do it for yourself. If you think that
S1: it makes you feel better, it makes you more confident.
S1: Why not?
S3: I'm very honest about it. Yeah, I'm very honest about it,
S3: and I'm very honest with the fact that if in
S3: the future there was an opportunity that I could get
S3: plus some sort of plastic surgery or fillers or whatever,
S3: IBO thoughts, whatever. Yeah, I'm very open and honest that
S3: I say I will consider.
S1: Yeah, I mean, of course, disclaimer as well these personal views. Yes, yes, definitely.
S1: Consider things properly and carefully before you do anything big
S1: or drastic in your life as well. And I guess,
S1: you know, veering away from what we've been talking about
S1: now is this day and age where beauty stands. It's
S1: a little bit different now, and you know, I like
S1: that the beauty industry and industry are starting to become
S1: a bit more inclusive, although obviously this is going to
S1: take some time, but it has definitely blurred the lines
S1: between what we used to think was beautiful and what
S1: should be considered beautiful right now, right? There's such a
S1: diverse way of seeing things right now. So do you
S1: think that in the media industry, it's it's going in
S1: that direction? Is it moving fast enough? What else can
S1: we do to, you know, change the perception of beauty?
S3: Well, that's a difficult and loaded question. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad.
S3: I'm glad that I think definitely things keep things. I'm
S3: very happy to see a lot more representation in Stephanie.
S3: Skin color, yes. And also size. I think that is
S3: two of them because I would say issues in the
S3: beauty industry that we we've we've faced for very, very long.
S3: Whether or not things are changing. I think it is, yes.
S3: But I think it's a very slow pace because I
S3: think we have been so inundated that we have fixed
S3: kind of what is beautiful kind of a model. Yeah.
S3: It is very difficult to kind of completely throw away
S3: years and years of like, you know, in greening that
S3: if you want to be beautiful, you must look like,
S3: I said in a way. Yeah. Just take a look
S3: at the K-pop industry for right?
S1: Right.
S3: As much as they're very beautiful to look at, it
S3: is also very harmful to just look at the industry
S3: in itself, which is huge. Is a multibillion dollar industry, right?
S3: Just looking at the type of people they produce, yeah,
S3: they look a certain way that they look like they
S3: have to achieve, right? And that is it's scary. Like,
S3: it is very scary that that is the the ideal. Yeah,
S3: as much as we are trying to change it. There
S3: is still that permeating strength of like that ideal Korean
S3: or Korean look like that you have to achieve that.
S1: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And because of the fact
S1: that these celebrities are so messy and so commercial, right?
S1: You know, you have these kids growing up wanting to
S1: be like them or look exactly like them that, you know,
S1: the whole idea of getting plastic surgery to look like
S1: a certain star or like, you know, making sure that I,
S1: I don't know, go for vitamin drips, whatever, to make
S1: your skin care, which, by the way, I don't think
S1: is a lot in Singapore.
S2: It's not. It's not. Yeah, you can do it. Other countries, yeah.
S2: You know, I don't take it.
S1: You know, it becomes normalized, right? Right. I want to
S1: look a certain way. And this is this is what
S1: I don't know this celebrity K-pop celebrity users who have
S1: such perfect skin, which in actual fact, maybe that's not
S1: really the truth. I don't know. But when you look
S1: at social media and when you scroll through and you
S1: see all these ads and stuff like that, do you
S1: feel inclined to buy a certain product when a very
S1: handsome or very pretty person is promoting it?
S3: Yeah, I think for me again, I'm lucky because working
S3: in this industry has given me an insight into how
S3: things work. Yes, right? It really does give me that
S3: external another lens. I don't have eyes to kind of
S3: look at it more objectively. And yeah, so in a
S3: way for me, because I have that knowledge. I definitely
S3: look to what's, you know, people who are genuine. And
S3: I like people who are usually I don't really bite
S3: into things from just a picture. Yeah, I like a video.
S3: If someone can, you know, really adequately explains things or
S3: like they genuinely like, show that they are, you know,
S3: they can
S1: be a part of your life, correct?
S3: Yeah, it I feel more inclined to trust them more.
S3: So if it's just a picture I'm usually like, Aren't killer, really?
S3: Do I trust, you know? You, I think about it.
S3: I'm a bit more discerning as an audience. Yes. Whereas
S3: I can't say the same for everybody else. Right, right.
S3: I can't say the same for the majority of the
S3: people who don't work in our industry and don't realize
S3: that that there is a certain standard and needs to
S3: be achieved when it comes to these kind of acts
S3: and things. So I I'm a little bit more discerning
S3: now when it comes to these things, and that's something
S3: that I really even for me when I'm looking for
S3: like new talent. Yeah, I tend to gravitate towards people
S3: who can speak better beyond just how good looking they
S3: are because I've met many people, right? Good looking beautiful.
S3: I don't know. Yeah. When they open your mouth, then
S3: open them up, which
S2: are, you know, Oh dear. So I really like
S3: suddenly right there is that dissonance between the look and
S3: represent themselves to me I like, especially for last video present.
S3: And it is so important that someone is able to
S3: speak and describe things.
S1: Of course, it is the nature of the job. I mean,
S1: it varies with different, you know, different industries as well.
S2: Yeah.
S3: So some influences, yeah, I mean, they can rely on
S3: the pretty yeah. Right? And some people, you know, they
S3: make money out of that power to them. Yeah, but
S3: as Judge Judy, once it gets beautiful, it's dumb is forever.
S2: And there we went there.
S1: Nobody. You know what you mentioned, actually, you know, resonates
S1: with me because as a content creator as well, when
S1: now we have to do so much digital creation, right?
S1: You know, there will be clients coming to you saying like, OK,
S1: you know, you need to promote this particular skincare or
S1: whatever it is or whatever. And I realize, you know,
S1: just looking at other influences, I'm not shitting on anyone.
S2: You're not
S1: seeing anyone. But, you know, sometimes when you get so
S1: saturated with content of people seeing this product works, I mean,
S1: this product with me, I also find it like, Oh
S1: my gosh, am I coming across this way as an influencer? Because,
S1: you know, if you are a person of influence or
S1: perceived to be, there will be a certain amount people
S1: who might invest like, I don't know, three or four
S1: hundred dollars in this product that you just promoted on
S1: your social media. Right. And I also do want to
S1: be a fraud. You know, I want to make sure
S1: that I try to product and make sure that I
S1: like it before I can, before I know what to
S1: say about it. All right, social media and I feel
S1: like that's as much as I can do horse. You know,
S1: my own way of trying to show that is part
S1: of my life. And it's not just, I don't know,
S1: holding a product and then chucking it aside after
S3: it is our responsibility. I think it's sure to be
S3: as authentic and honest about what we I know. Sometimes
S3: money comes stuff and you just take jobs based on,
S3: I mean, how do you if you need that money
S3: and you need that, that's fine. But for me, I
S3: do agree with you. My personal philosophy is I do
S3: have to actually try. The product actually is really like
S3: the product before I can put it on my, my, my,
S3: my page.
S1: No, I totally agree. But you know, hey, it is
S1: a very challenging industry. I will say at times, and
S1: it's tough to really have that balance at times as well. OK,
S1: so before we wrap things up, I just have one
S1: more question here for you. So in a few cases,
S1: pretty women are seen as less competitive, according to certain research,
S1: and always having the easy way out, apparently. What do
S1: you feel about that statement? And, for example, for men,
S1: they're given more concessions even when they make mistakes, because
S1: attractive men tend to be seen as more competent and ambitious.
S3: We live in a very patriarchal society, and this is
S3: a reality that a lot of us have had to
S3: fight with LA. And even for me, I don't typically
S3: find myself in more masculine spectrum. Often men. Yeah, right?
S3: Even for me, I do feel I get judged because
S3: I'm not the typical kind of men. So I find
S3: I find that for being a woman, it's even harder
S3: for that because there is like a hierarchy in terms
S3: of this whole idea of what it means to be masculine, feminine, right,
S3: the most masculine of men, usually the one seen with
S3: the most power. Then it trickles down right as the
S3: less masculine you are, the less, I guess, benefits you
S3: get from society. I think for women, right, they have
S3: had to work even harder just to kind of fight.
S3: That proved tricky.
S2: Right? OK, it's almost impossible. Yeah, yeah.
S3: Yeah, it's so impossible. As much as like we can see, like,
S3: you know, we're going to work for like equality and stuff.
S1: It's a long journey.
S3: It is very long is until I the older generation dies.
S3: But even then we have the older generation, even if
S3: they die, right? If they managed to pass down that
S3: kind of mindset that men are better than women. OK, yeah. Yeah,
S3: we're not going to get out this cycle. Yeah, right?
S3: It's tough. So it's scary just because of your gender.
S3: You already have certain challenges in place in front of
S3: you that you never even asked for.
S1: Yeah, right. And I think, you know, sometimes in certain industries,
S1: especially for people who are exceptionally good looking in the industry, right?
S1: I once I had a friend who is working in
S1: the medical industry, right? He is a doctor surgeon. OK,
S1: very serious. Like, it's like, literally, you know, the job
S1: is to save lives and critical surgeries. But the catch
S1: is he's so good looking. So as a result, he
S1: has to wear a mask all the time, even during consults.
S1: And just wait. Wait, why? Because he said that every
S1: time he doesn't, because he also is. He looks quite young,
S1: even though he is older than people think. And he's
S1: also very good looking. People don't trust him. Oh, my goodness. Yes,
S1: they're like, Yeah. So I mean, I have to say,
S1: like for some people who have, I just blessed that
S1: born with exceptional good looks in certain industries, people actually
S1: don't trust them. I mean, this is not a blanket statement,
S1: but for my particular friend who who experienced these things,
S1: I can't imagine he might not be the only person.
S1: This is going to feel this way. You know, and
S1: it's just, oh, like if you're in this serious industry,
S1: maybe if you're all, I better get an older doctor.
S1: Maybe he's more right, you know, more seasoned, more experienced,
S1: or this doctor also good-looking. How can be doctor must
S1: be a him boy, you know, and that kind of mindset.
S1: So I don't know whether like obviously once again, it
S1: applies to. Everyone, but this is just based on my
S1: friend's experience over in the medical
S2: field, that's that's so
S1: which is interesting.
S3: It's so interesting that it is now industry specific, right?
S3: Because like the blanket idea would be if you are
S3: good looking, people would trust you more. Maybe for someone
S3: who is going to potentially save your life, you look
S3: for the one who is older.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Who might equate to my experience, right? Oh yeah. Very
S1: destructor life, my doctor. So good looking, you know. OK, why?
S3: If you imagine if you are getting surgery right, would
S3: you want to be distracted by him? Yes. Why you
S3: want for you to be like
S2: you will see like the places that he I don't
S2: want you to see. I mean, I know why I'd
S2: rather not go there. No, that's just how I view
S2: that
S3: is now very interesting. It's a whole new ball game
S3: all together that now it is very industry specific. Yeah,
S3: I've never really thought about until we have had this conversation.
S1: Yeah. So I mean, maybe our next episode, we should
S1: invite a really hot doctor. Not for my benefit is
S1: for our viewers.
S2: Exactly. For my if you watch the video, exactly. You
S2: see what an interesting conversation we had today. Honestly, I
S1: felt like we talked for four hours or something of it. Yeah.
S1: Anything else you want to leave with our audience, you know,
S1: even if it comes to, say, self-confidence or self-esteem issues
S1: and stuff like that, which a lot of us still
S1: struggle with to.
S3: I think if your personality is ninety nine percent, your
S3: your looks. I think you really should reflect on your
S3: life a little bit more because I think in life
S3: it's very hot to just course on by without some
S3: sort of talent and always have self, you know, something
S3: that you can be proud of. It's always nice to
S3: go and put in a lot of effort in whatever
S3: you're doing, regardless of how well you look, how nice
S3: you look, right? And if you put in the effort,
S3: you will get somewhere. Yeah, you have success. Yeah, and
S3: self-esteem and all these things, right? It is a journey.
S3: Even for me. It is still is a work in
S3: progress to feel more confident about myself, right? Sometimes I
S3: think like I want to do, I sound a little
S3: bit too high pitch or like, you know, do I
S3: sound whiny or do I look like too old to
S3: tie it? It is a work in progress, and it
S3: is something that at the end of the day, you
S3: need to find value in your life beyond just ascribing
S3: it to how you look.
S1: Yeah. And I think at the end of the day
S1: as well, when we watch videos of their photos, you know,
S1: and you like, pick on certain things, I think we're
S1: just like, we're hypocritical of ourselves, and maybe we just
S1: have to learn how to let go and not be
S1: so conscious about like, Oh, that I don't know what
S1: that wrinkle or that like. I don't know what it
S1: is that I mean.
S2: OK, stop, stop. I know.
S3: And also, like a lot of people out there watching, right,
S3: I think honestly, I don't take everything you see on
S3: the internet like Facebook. Yes, right. There's a lot of
S3: things that goes into creating this content, whether it's Photoshop
S3: law or this, that no bill ever. There's a lot
S3: of things that goes on behind the scenes that you
S3: may not know. So just don't take it at face
S3: value and trust 100 percent. Be more discerning. Yes, I
S3: think I would like to encourage. Oh, I would like
S3: to advocate for more discerning viewers and audience members, because
S3: then it will make the social media basically be like
S3: own self on the check, on the people on social media. Yeah,
S3: in a sense, you be that checks and balances. Yes.
S3: To create a more holistic social media landscape
S1: and a healthier one is yes, you know, it's getting
S1: so toxic in some places out there. So, yeah, thank
S1: you so much
S2: for being with us today. Thank you for having me.
S2: We have to
S1: hang out again soon. Yes, especially when we get said
S1: Hot Doctor in the studio.
S2: I will be going to yes, you will be cam
S2: for Cam
S1: or you can be the boom Mike. Yes. Which, by
S1: the way, we don't need a boom. I hold it,
S1: but we'll call
S2: it a rule. I will create a room for you.
S2: Thank you so much once again for listening
S1: to this episode of Men. Explain now, if you like
S1: this episode as much as we did, please hit the
S1: follow button. We're on Spotify and Apple podcast, and also
S1: please follow us at its Clarity Echo on Instagram and
S1: Facebook for more content like this. Till then, we'll see
S1: you next time.