Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast,
Speaker 1: Antonio Guterres, the world's top diplomat. If you follow the
Speaker 1: news closely, you'll have heard his words on the biggest
Speaker 1: issues and crises facing the planet and when it comes
Speaker 1: to climate change, he's the harbinger of all types of
Speaker 1: worldly doom. Hello and welcome to climate conversations. I'm Jack Board.
Speaker 1: Coming to you from Bangkok. Hi to Li Ling Tan
Speaker 1: CN A's very own harbinger of climate catastrophe. How are you?
Speaker 1: Hello, Jack. I'm excellent. Thank you. Considering we're all going
Speaker 1: to bake boil and burn in a matter of time.
Speaker 1: I'm doing pretty well. Well, that's what you're here for,
Speaker 1: bringing us all types of bad news. But no, no,
Speaker 1: before we get to the interview that you did with
Speaker 1: Antonio Guterres kind of take us behind the scenes a bit.
Speaker 1: Great to have him exclusively on our podcast. How did
Speaker 1: you find him? What was he like? Well,
Speaker 1: he might be the world's diplomat, but he's really a
Speaker 1: humanitarian at heart and sometimes he can be an angry humanitarian.
Speaker 1: He can be clear about what is needed and how
Speaker 1: the world may have fallen short of resolving conflicts or
Speaker 1: addressing climate change. For example, he can bristle over fossil
Speaker 1: fuels get angry at injustices, especially when it comes to
Speaker 1: vulnerable populations.
Speaker 1: He can also express displeasure consternation even I've seen him
Speaker 1: do this over uh protracted conflicts and quarrels between nations
Speaker 1: like some of the superpowers. But behind the scenes, he
Speaker 1: is soft spoken and actually very thoughtful. I've interviewed him
Speaker 1: several times and he was always, always very aware of
Speaker 1: who the people around him were. He always remembers to shake,
Speaker 1: for example, with the TV crew. And that's what he
Speaker 1: did this time as well. He takes notice and I
Speaker 1: think that is telling and, and it's what really defines
Speaker 1: his leadership style. What about you, Jack? What's your take
Speaker 1: on him? Uh Obviously, I've seen him from afar have
Speaker 1: examined his speeches on many occasions. The only time we
Speaker 1: were really in close quarters was at a restaurant actually
Speaker 1: in Egypt when
Speaker 1: co was in Sharm, El Sheikh and a friend and I,
Speaker 1: a fellow journalist and I were just having a sort
Speaker 1: of a private dinner. And then in, he came this
Speaker 1: kind of outdoor restaurant by the sea with his whole entourage.
Speaker 1: And they all kind of just nervously looked around at
Speaker 1: us and we just kind of carried on our meal,
Speaker 1: but hardly a claim to fame when we have him
Speaker 1: on the podcast today. So that's exciting. It was quite
Speaker 1: an exciting exchange.
Speaker 1: So speaking of exciting exchanges, it's quiz time, of course,
Speaker 1: it is Antonio Guterres themed naturally. Let's see how good
Speaker 1: your interview research was, which of the following quotes is
Speaker 1: not attributed to Antonio Guterres. We know that his speeches
Speaker 1: are pretty famous. They're pretty fiery. So tell me which
Speaker 1: one of these he did not say
Speaker 1: a humanity has opened the gates of hell. Sounds the
Speaker 1: fairy lord of the Rings. Ish
Speaker 1: B we are not only in danger, we are the
Speaker 1: danger
Speaker 1: c the climate crisis is the greatest challenge humanity has
Speaker 1: ever faced. And d we are on the edge of
Speaker 1: the abyss and only urgent action can save us from
Speaker 1: a climate catastrophe. Oh, wow. All of these sounds really familiar.
Speaker 1: One of one of those made up. They all sound
Speaker 1: like him though. It's not as easy as it appears.
Speaker 1: All right answer will be at the end of the podcast.
Speaker 1: OK. News time, a link in between you're running around
Speaker 1: interviewing VIP s what's taken your attention? OK. So first up,
Speaker 1: China apparently has cut its air pollution by 41% over
Speaker 1: the decade until 2022. Yay. And in so doing the
Speaker 1: average citizen there can live two years longer.
Speaker 1: So according to a Bloomberg article which cited a study
Speaker 1: by the University of Chicago, it's largely a result of
Speaker 1: the Chinese government's national Air Quality action plan. That's basically
Speaker 1: a policy that followed some really bad smock situation back
Speaker 1: in 2013. I think you might remember this, Jack now
Speaker 1: the policy included steps to
Speaker 1: reduce the number of cars on the road, cut steel production, there,
Speaker 1: ban coal fired power plants in some key urban areas
Speaker 1: and also to invest in more renewables. But the article
Speaker 1: also points out that despite this progress, China's pollution levels
Speaker 1: are still 5 to 6 times higher than the World
Speaker 1: Health Organization's guidelines.
Speaker 1: So there is still a long way to go. And
Speaker 1: the goal for China now is to cut smog in
Speaker 1: major cities by 10% from 2020 levels by the end
Speaker 1: of 2025. Pretty striking. I think the outcomes here of
Speaker 1: this report, but two years longer life expectancy for the
Speaker 1: average person. And that really seems like
Speaker 1: something that's worth striving for and just strikes me that
Speaker 1: air pollution has such an impact on everybody's lives that,
Speaker 1: I mean, kudos for China for really making a big
Speaker 1: effort in this space, but shows how much work they
Speaker 1: really had to do.
Speaker 1: And it's clear there's a lot more to do as well. Yeah, absolutely. Now,
Speaker 1: speaking of pollution, generally, it's also having an impact on
Speaker 1: a population that's closer to home. That's right. The orang
Speaker 1: laut people of the sea who called the Malacca Strait
Speaker 1: and waters of Eastern Sumatra home CNAs navel radar did
Speaker 1: a story about how their way of life has been
Speaker 1: at risk and he profiles the orang laut of Batam
Speaker 1: who are now seeing their lives and livelihoods on the
Speaker 1: line
Speaker 1: and it's not just due to pollution but also competition
Speaker 1: for fish and the effects of climate change, which is
Speaker 1: making the sea angrier, making the waves bigger and making
Speaker 1: winds much stronger as well. And this hostile environment means
Speaker 1: they increasingly have to leave the ocean to find work
Speaker 1: on land
Speaker 1: and without formal education, many of them end up scavenging
Speaker 1: and picking trash just to get by. So instead of
Speaker 1: living on boats as their people have for centuries, most
Speaker 1: of them now live in still houses along the coast
Speaker 1: and on small islands. So it's a
Speaker 1: glimpse of what climate change is doing to yet another
Speaker 1: vulnerable group of people, even if they had little or
Speaker 1: no part to play in the enormous amount of greenhouse
Speaker 1: gas emissions that the world is coughing out. Yeah, I'd
Speaker 1: encourage you to, to have a read of it or
Speaker 1: watch it on youtube and part of this trend that
Speaker 1: we're seeing
Speaker 1: right throughout coastal areas of sea or formerly sea dwelling
Speaker 1: communities that now being forced to upend the way that
Speaker 1: they've traditionally lived.
Speaker 1: Ok. Let's go to our main story this week.
Speaker 1: In 2017, the former Prime Minister of Portugal Antonio Guterres
Speaker 1: ascended to the un's top job since then, for all
Speaker 1: of us following the biggest stories on the news agenda.
Speaker 1: His words, emphasizing the gravity and urgency of issues have
Speaker 1: been a mainstay and climate change has been a key
Speaker 1: focus for him
Speaker 1: before coming to Asia. He made a stop in the
Speaker 1: Pacific region for the first time in about five years
Speaker 1: visiting Tonga and making some characteristically strong remarks about sea
Speaker 1: level rise. In particular. I wrote an analysis piece that
Speaker 1: you can read at CN A about the significance of
Speaker 1: that trip and his call for an S OS or
Speaker 1: save our seas. And why sea level rise is a
Speaker 1: particular policy area of attention for both him and regional leaders.
Speaker 1: Now that coincided as well with a new report about
Speaker 1: the threat of melting ice, how it will impact low
Speaker 1: lying megacities and something that all of us should pay
Speaker 1: attention to. Then he was in Singapore, Li Ling. Why
Speaker 1: was he here? What was on his agenda?
Speaker 1: I think it was part of his whole Asia visit.
Speaker 1: You mentioned he visited Tonga, he was also in Samoa
Speaker 1: um in the Pacific. And then he headed here in
Speaker 1: his first official visit as Un Secretary General to meet
Speaker 1: with government officials here in Singapore. Now,
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, a big priority area was to
Speaker 1: draw global attention to the impact that climate change is
Speaker 1: having on communities here, not just rising sea levels on
Speaker 1: the Pacific, but the warming conditions in Asia as well.
Speaker 1: And this was largely the theme of our conversation in
Speaker 1: this interview. Yeah, I think it's clear that Guterres is
Speaker 1: really on a supercharged tour right now and designed to
Speaker 1: wrap up energy, political dialogue,
Speaker 1: climate space and build momentum towards cop 29 in Azerbaijan
Speaker 1: later in November. And as well, the the G 20
Speaker 1: summit is happening in the same month. That's right. And
Speaker 1: that's when of course the world's largest economies meet. So
Speaker 1: we can expect a lot more calls to action to
Speaker 1: phase out fossil fuels, cough up climate financing that's been
Speaker 1: promised but largely unsured more commitments and follow throughs, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to helping
Speaker 1: developing nations fight climate change and adapt to its impacts.
Speaker 1: I started off my conversation, my interview with the Secretary
Speaker 1: General by talking about how we're all feeling the heat
Speaker 1: here in Asia. In Singapore alone, daily temperatures are projected
Speaker 1: to
Speaker 1: degrees by up to five °C by the end of
Speaker 1: the century. And Jack, you and I have talked about
Speaker 1: this before Asia is warming at a faster rate than
Speaker 1: the global average. So I asked him how worried he
Speaker 1: was about what all of this will do to countries
Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm terribly worried but we need to avoid that situation.
Speaker 2: We need to make sure that temperatures do not rise
Speaker 2: more than 1.5 degrees until the end of the century
Speaker 2: in relation to historic values.
Speaker 2: And that means that we need to reverse the present
Speaker 2: trends in which emissions are still growing. And we need
Speaker 2: to ask countries especially the G 20 countries, the great polluters, 80%
Speaker 2: of the greenhouse gasses come from the G 21 must
Speaker 2: take the G 20 countries developed countries, emerging economies that
Speaker 2: it's time to start drastically reducing the emissions. It's time
Speaker 2: to start the process to face
Speaker 2: fossil fuels. And it's time to understand that we need
Speaker 2: to rescue our planet and that the only way to
Speaker 2: rescue our planet is exactly to avoid the things that
Speaker 2: you are describing. If temperatures rise 234 degrees, we will
Speaker 2: witness the destruction of large parts of human life conditions
Speaker 2: in different areas of the world.
Speaker 1: You've
Speaker 1: already visited Saba and Tonga. What did you hear and
Speaker 1: see that
Speaker 1: you were most alarmed by, in terms of the impact
Speaker 1: from rising sea levels,
Speaker 2: sea
Speaker 2: level rise is first of all at double than what
Speaker 2: it was in the nineties. And it's accelerating. I think
Speaker 2: the rate of increase is unprecedented in the last 3000
Speaker 2: years
Speaker 2: and that I may use that we are coming close
Speaker 2: to a tipping point where it can accelerate much more.
Speaker 2: If for instance, we would have the two degrees limit,
Speaker 2: it would be inevitable to have the
Speaker 2: long term melting of Greenland and the long term melting
Speaker 2: of West Antarctica. But an immediate acceleration of the melting
Speaker 2: of these two gigantic ice masses, which would mean a
Speaker 2: dramatic acceleration of the rise of the sea level. And
Speaker 2: the consequences for coastal areas would be devastating, devastating for
Speaker 2: the Pacific Islands where I was
Speaker 2: but devastating for many of the big cities in the world.
Speaker 2: The majority of the population of the world is by
Speaker 2: the sea cities like Shanghai, Lagos, Bangkok, New York, New York.
Speaker 2: All these cities are threatened if we do not avoid
Speaker 2: those tipping points. And if you do not avoid a
Speaker 2: dramatic acceleration,
Speaker 2: sea level rise in the next few years and decades
Speaker 1: in Tonga, you issued a global sos on the rising
Speaker 1: sea levels in the Pacific, who do you hope will
Speaker 1: answer your call or who should answer your? So
Speaker 2: the big emitters, as I said, those that are dramatically
Speaker 2: impacting on climate, the fossil fuel
Speaker 2: companies, many of them, but above all the countries themselves
Speaker 2: that needs to have plans and projects to reduce emissions
Speaker 2: to put a price on carbon to, as I said,
Speaker 2: have plans to phase out fossil fuels to avoid deforestation,
Speaker 2: to guarantee an adequate use of land. There are so
Speaker 2: many things to decarbonise the industry, the transportation,
Speaker 2: many other sectors. I mean, everything that needs to be
Speaker 2: done in order to make sure that we stop the
Speaker 2: present growth of emissions and we drastically reverse it,
Speaker 1: right? But this message that it's time to phase out
Speaker 1: fossil fuels, it's time to take more climate action, it's
Speaker 1: not new. And you've used some pretty dramatic language to
Speaker 1: try and galvanize deeper climate action, right? You said that
Speaker 1: we
Speaker 1: need an exit ramp of the highway to climate. Hell,
Speaker 1: you said we've gone from global warming to global boiling.
Speaker 1: Have any of these warnings garnered the kind of real
Speaker 1: change that you want.
Speaker 2: Well, we are seeing a lot of changes, we are
Speaker 2: seeing not enough change, but we are seeing a lot
Speaker 2: of changes. Look at the huge increase in renewable energy
Speaker 2: that we are witnessing the biggest increase ever in any
Speaker 2: form of energy, especially in the production of electricity.
Speaker 2: Look at electric cars, I mean in China now one
Speaker 2: in each two electric cars that are sold, one of
Speaker 2: each two cars that are sold is electric. Look how
Speaker 2: science is evolving so quickly. So the question is not
Speaker 2: the instrument
Speaker 2: available. Science available. The question is political will, the only
Speaker 2: thing we need is the political will that is needed
Speaker 2: to use the instruments. We already have to make sure
Speaker 2: that we reverse the present trends to use those expressions
Speaker 2: that you mentioned
Speaker 2: that would lead to hell on
Speaker 2: earth.
Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask you a question about the
Speaker 1: Association of Southeast Asian Nations. You have called on ASEAN
Speaker 1: to help end the global climate gridlock saying it's a moral,
Speaker 1: its moral authority to do. So,
Speaker 1: what did you mean by that? Especially given how this
Speaker 1: region faces its own climate, dangers and its own challenges
Speaker 1: in decarbonizing
Speaker 2: is one of the areas that will be more dramatically
Speaker 2: impacted by climate change. And it's not an area that
Speaker 2: is contributing decisively to climate change.
Speaker 2: So as an area that is suffering more than many others,
Speaker 2: because of the impacts of climate change and we will
Speaker 2: suffer even more if things go on as they are.
Speaker 2: This region has a huge moral authority to tell the
Speaker 2: polluters stop.
Speaker 1: OK. One last short question, what can a small country
Speaker 1: like Singapore do
Speaker 1: to be a bigger part of the solution? You met
Speaker 1: with some of the government officials during this trip? How
Speaker 1: can Singapore play a bigger part?
Speaker 2: Now, Singapore plays an extremely important role in the United Nations.
Speaker 2: Singapore is one of the most active countries in the
Speaker 2: United Nations. Singapore was decisive in the reforms that we
Speaker 2: have been able to introduce. Singapore is decisive in our
Speaker 2: climate campaign. Singapore is decided in the preparation of the
Speaker 2: summit of the future in relation to the governance of
Speaker 2: Artificial Intelligence in relation to the reform of international financial
Speaker 2: architecture in relation to a new agenda for peace. I mean,
Speaker 2: Singapore has been in the front line of the voice
Speaker 2: of reason
Speaker 2: and um Singapore presides the forum of small states. And
Speaker 2: based on that, Singapore has been able to mobilize the
Speaker 2: majority of the countries, small states, but each country, one vote,
Speaker 2: the majority of the countries of the United Nations in
Speaker 2: order to make the United Nations a strong instrument to
Speaker 2: protect the planet and to create more equity and justice
Speaker 2: in the relations among countries and among people.
Speaker 1: OK, quiz time questions and options again for you. Do
Speaker 1: you want all the options again? I think we should
Speaker 1: go through this, which of the following quotes is not
Speaker 1: attributed to Antonio Guterres. A humanity has opened the gates
Speaker 1: of hell. This one I know, I think he said
Speaker 1: it uh last September at the Climate Action Summit. I'm 65%
Speaker 1: sure of it. It sounds very familiar. That's not that sure. OK.
Speaker 1: All right. B
Speaker 1: we are not only in danger, we are the danger.
Speaker 1: This, he definitely said, I remember reading this just last week.
Speaker 1: The whole quote is even more dramatic. Let me pull
Speaker 1: it up for you just a second. In the case
Speaker 1: of climate, we are not the dinosaurs, we are the meteor,
Speaker 1: we are not only in danger, we are the danger,
Speaker 1: but we are also the solution. OK? See the climate
Speaker 1: crisis is the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced.
Speaker 1: OK? It sounds like him and I would go for
Speaker 1: this if not for the next quote, which I'm kind
Speaker 1: of sure. He also said. So d we are on
Speaker 1: the edge of the abyss and only urgent action can
Speaker 1: save us from a climate catastrophe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can hear him say the
Speaker 1: word abyss in my head. I'm pretty sure I said
Speaker 1: that but I mean, I'm pretty sure I heard that
Speaker 1: but ok, so definitely a definitely b because I'm sure
Speaker 1: about those two climate crisis is the greatest challenge humanity
Speaker 1: has ever faced. That's like a fact anybody could have
Speaker 1: said that.
Speaker 1: Ok, I'm gonna go with a B and D.
Speaker 1: You got it correct. CC dragged directly from the UN website.
Speaker 1: Just not anybody. Yeah, it's just from the UN website.
Speaker 1: It's not from him. So you, you speak the language
Speaker 1: of uh Antonio Guterres
Speaker 1: or his speechwriters. But, yeah. All right. That's it for
Speaker 1: climate conversations. Thanks as always for joining us. We'll be
Speaker 1: back next week with fresh air and he means episode
Speaker 1: and until next week, I'm Li Ling Tan and I'm
Speaker 1: Jack Boy. Thanks as always to the team that put
Speaker 1: together this episode, Tiffany Janni, Jahari, Kristina Robert and Sai.