WEBVTT - Managing your finances as a freelancer

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to AC N A podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, everyone. It's Andrea Heng. You are listening to the

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<v Speaker 2>Money Talks podcast and this is where we discuss all

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<v Speaker 2>things money. Now, if you haven't already, please follow us

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<v Speaker 2>on Spotify. We're also on Apple podcasts and youtube music

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<v Speaker 2>because that way you'll be the first to know when

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<v Speaker 2>a new episode of Money talks drops. Ok. Alright. So Jaini,

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<v Speaker 2>my producer is in the studio with

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<v Speaker 2>me and she is about to hit me with some

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<v Speaker 2>news headlines, Jan hit it when I say Bukit Timah.

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<v Speaker 2>What comes to mind? Oh, ok, Botanic Gardens. That's one

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<v Speaker 2>but also more significantly those good schools, big bungalows, basically

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<v Speaker 2>everything that's out of my price range. Certainly an elite

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<v Speaker 2>part of Singapore. Let's not lie to ourselves. Yes. Ok.

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<v Speaker 2>So Bukit Timah is going to

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<v Speaker 2>go through some changes, not now, but in about 20

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<v Speaker 2>years from now, M and D has announced that 15

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<v Speaker 2>to 20,000 public and private homes are being planned at

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<v Speaker 2>the future turf city housing estate. This is the first

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<v Speaker 2>time in about 40 years that there's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>public housing in Bukit Timah. So for the flats. Experts

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<v Speaker 2>are saying that they're likely to be under the prime location,

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<v Speaker 2>public housing model and make up no more than 40%

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<v Speaker 2>of the new home.

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<v Speaker 2>Ok. No surprises there, obviously because it's a prime location.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk numbers. How much would these cost? Obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>it is hard to pinpoint now. But according to experts

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<v Speaker 2>quoted by CN A four room flats are likely to

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<v Speaker 2>be about 600,000 sing dollars. Can't wait to see how

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<v Speaker 2>it's all going to shape up what's next? Ok. In

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<v Speaker 2>keeping with the homes theme H DB has announced a

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<v Speaker 2>new type of flats will be piloted in the upcoming

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<v Speaker 2>Kallang WB

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<v Speaker 2>project and they are calling these white flats. Ok. What

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<v Speaker 2>exactly are white flats? When you're invited to pick your flat,

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<v Speaker 2>you can choose a white flat which won't come with

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<v Speaker 2>partitions or beams. So basically, it's an open concept flat,

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<v Speaker 2>one big space for the living room and the bedroom, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think this is a good idea? I think

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<v Speaker 2>it is because there tends to be this pattern of

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<v Speaker 2>especially younger folks where they want these

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<v Speaker 2>open expansive spaces in an H DB flat. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think this way they immediately get to see what it

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<v Speaker 2>looks like. But the thing is it's about having options also, right.

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<v Speaker 2>So what if you want the beam back at that space? Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So Minister Desmond Lee has said that this will cater

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<v Speaker 2>to young people who want more flexibility in the way

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<v Speaker 2>they renovate their homes. But of course, it remains to

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<v Speaker 2>be seen what the price difference will be between the

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<v Speaker 2>white flats and their traditional counterparts.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you've been following me on Instagram and tiktok,

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<v Speaker 2>then you would know about a new feature of the

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<v Speaker 2>Money Talks podcast and that's the money talks challenge. So

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<v Speaker 2>for the first Money Talks challenge ever, my producer Juna

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<v Speaker 2>challenged me to take public transport throughout the month. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>a disclaimer. I only need to think about the ride

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<v Speaker 2>home because my right to work in the early morning

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<v Speaker 2>because I host the morning show on radio that's covered

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<v Speaker 2>by the company. So

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<v Speaker 2>just to give you an idea, a cab ride home

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<v Speaker 2>from work for me is roughly $20. And if I

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<v Speaker 2>have errands to run, which is mostly in town, a

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<v Speaker 2>ride home is about 17 to $18. But that fee,

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<v Speaker 2>it buys me time and that's priceless because that journey

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<v Speaker 2>takes me just 20 minutes. So in contrast, the average

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<v Speaker 2>fare home via train and bus because that's just what

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<v Speaker 2>my journey home entails is a nifty 2 to $3.

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<v Speaker 2>Then while it saves me money, it's also a one

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<v Speaker 2>hour 45 minute journey home. Almost two hours. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>long time spent and it's time I can't get back.

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<v Speaker 2>So while this has been a wallet friendly experiment, it's

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<v Speaker 2>also taught me things that have absolutely nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with money, proper planning, multitasking on the go even taking

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<v Speaker 2>the chance to slow down and refresh my mind with

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast or even catching up on articles for work.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the conclusion now is do the intangible benefits outweigh

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<v Speaker 2>the benefits? I see in my bank account. Not always,

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<v Speaker 2>but I believe they are worth counting anyway because let's

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<v Speaker 2>face it, carrying three heavy bags of groceries after work

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<v Speaker 2>on a long train and bus journey is just not

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<v Speaker 2>the most efficient nor comfortable, is it?

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<v Speaker 2>So that's it. The very first money talks challenge. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me know what you think if you want to find

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<v Speaker 2>me on social media. I'm on Instagram and tiktok, Andrea heng.cn.

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<v Speaker 2>A

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<v Speaker 2>welcome back to the Money Talks podcast. I'm Andrea. He

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<v Speaker 2>now for some people, the 9 to 5 job just

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't cut it right. Getting dressed jostling with crowds, endless meetings.

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<v Speaker 2>That could have been emails. You know what I mean? Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So freelancing can be an empowering option because it lets

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<v Speaker 2>you choose what you want to do and how much

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<v Speaker 2>you want to do. Plus you can work any time

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere and wear anything you want. In fact. Mm. Data

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<v Speaker 2>shows that over 221,000 residents engaged in own account work

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<v Speaker 2>as a regular form of employment as a mid 2023.

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<v Speaker 2>But as Eleanor Roosevelt once said,

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<v Speaker 2>with freedom comes responsibility. That's right. The trade off for

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<v Speaker 2>that flexibility is discipline, discipline in the work but also

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<v Speaker 2>in your finances because no one else is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be doing it for you. You'll also be missing various

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<v Speaker 2>safety nets, right? Like insurance and health care and here

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<v Speaker 2>in Singapore, regular CPF contribution.

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<v Speaker 2>So is there a way for freelancers to be financially secure,

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<v Speaker 2>not just for the now but also while building a

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<v Speaker 2>financially sound future? One of those ways is to get

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<v Speaker 2>advice from Chn Ting whereby she is the CEO of

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<v Speaker 2>Money Owl. Welcome to Money Talks. Thank you, Andrea. So

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<v Speaker 2>happy to be here. So there seems to be this

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<v Speaker 2>common perception that people without a salary have a more

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<v Speaker 2>precarious financial situation.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that really true though?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Andrea, like you say, with freedom comes responsibility and

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<v Speaker 2>if you look at the mom survey, those that the

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<v Speaker 2>one that you talked about, actually, it seems that over 90%

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<v Speaker 2>have said that they choose this, they choose to be

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<v Speaker 2>freelancers because of flexibility and all that. It's just that

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<v Speaker 2>you do not have these structures that are quote unquote

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<v Speaker 2>imposed on you. You, you come to work, you get

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<v Speaker 2>your salary in your bank account every month and you

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<v Speaker 2>have the CPF and there are already basic structures that

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<v Speaker 2>are there.

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<v Speaker 2>So in Singapore, for freelancers, there are some basics or

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<v Speaker 2>mandatory things that make you do the right thing that

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<v Speaker 2>is good for you, for example, the Medisave contribution, but

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<v Speaker 2>you need to build the rest yourself. So it is

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily that you can't have those structures to support

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<v Speaker 2>your financial resilience and adequacy. You just have to be

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<v Speaker 2>more aware and know how to go about doing it. So,

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<v Speaker 2>are there common financial issues that

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<v Speaker 2>freelancers actually run into? What do freelancers tend to get

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<v Speaker 2>wrong when it comes to planning their finances? I think

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<v Speaker 2>the first thing is that they don't plan. Right. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if it's fair to make this extrapolation.

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<v Speaker 2>But perhaps people who like freedom and you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>want to do things my way and all that become

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<v Speaker 2>more creative. People maybe not so structured. So criticism perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm not naturally very structured myself. And that's why

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<v Speaker 2>maybe by some irony or destiny, I had to do

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<v Speaker 2>this financial planning thing and I tell people all the time,

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<v Speaker 2>build your systems, build your habits and all that because I,

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<v Speaker 2>I know it really helps us. So the first mistake

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<v Speaker 2>is really not planning, right? The second one I think

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<v Speaker 2>is really just ignoring reality, like trying to, ok, where's my,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to get that big break and it's all

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<v Speaker 2>dependent on something you can't control. Yeah. And you can

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<v Speaker 2>ignore reality, but you can't ignore

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<v Speaker 2>consequences of reality. You got to be prepared to answer

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<v Speaker 2>to those two. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So you need

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<v Speaker 2>to face the facts, right? Face the facts and then

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<v Speaker 2>do something according to what you can control because hope

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<v Speaker 2>is not a strategy. It's not strategy, right? And theyre

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<v Speaker 2>not strategy, but it doesn't mean that you can't pursue

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<v Speaker 2>your dreams. It doesn't mean any of that. You just

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<v Speaker 2>have to really get started and at least get a

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<v Speaker 2>basic frame. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's really good advice. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>more importantly, it acknowledges the need for certain people to

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<v Speaker 2>have no structure. You still need to have some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of basic rundown of what you need to do, especially

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<v Speaker 2>financially and especially in Singapore. Ok, assuming we've decided to

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<v Speaker 2>go freelance, secured maybe two or three gigs. What do

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<v Speaker 2>we need to set up in terms of accounts, for example.

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<v Speaker 2>Ok, I think perhaps let me suggest a way of

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about your income, right? Because if you go back

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<v Speaker 2>to that 2023 survey. So what are the main concerns

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<v Speaker 2>that people have are the main challenges of these own

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<v Speaker 2>account workers and over about 20% it is really uncertainty

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<v Speaker 2>of finding sufficient work and the lack of sufficient work

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<v Speaker 2>in general and then the health care, their retirement and

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<v Speaker 2>and all these concerns, right? So one is really about

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<v Speaker 2>income and the other one is about

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<v Speaker 2>expenses and long term expenses. So I I think one

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<v Speaker 2>way of thinking about it is this your income is

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<v Speaker 2>very lumpy. So sometimes you have, sometimes you don't have

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<v Speaker 2>and all that, but let's say you're already a freelancer.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to find what is the equivalent that you

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<v Speaker 2>are actually earning in a year. Ok, let's say you

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<v Speaker 2>say that, ok, I'm actually bringing in 50,000 a year, right?

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<v Speaker 2>This is not the same as 50,000 of a full

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<v Speaker 2>time employee. You know why? Because

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<v Speaker 2>no CPF there's another 17% or so for most people

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<v Speaker 2>from the employer, then there's, of course, then the interest

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<v Speaker 2>on that CPF. Then on that's a retirement side insurance,

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<v Speaker 2>there's at least basic like workman's injury compensation. You don't

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<v Speaker 2>have sick leave you don't have, right? So you easily

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<v Speaker 2>need to like almost like discount what you have by,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say 20% right? And then think about it this way.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's say you're talking about, let's say if you

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<v Speaker 2>3000 a year, what you are talking about is every month,

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<v Speaker 2>you are actually earning about $4000 a month. Ok? And

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<v Speaker 2>some months you will get 1000, some months, you will

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<v Speaker 2>get 30,000. Ok. So how do you think about it?

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<v Speaker 2>So think about it as you are generally earning about

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<v Speaker 2>4000 a month and then set up a system for

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<v Speaker 2>yourself to make sure that your expenses are within a

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<v Speaker 2>certain amount, make sure that your savings are in,

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<v Speaker 2>set up. So what is the first thing you do?

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<v Speaker 2>So 4000 a year you should be saving at least

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<v Speaker 2>I think for freelance we got 15 to 20%. So

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<v Speaker 2>set it up, set up a standing instruction ok, so

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<v Speaker 2>you have one account in which you get all your money, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Then you set up another account in which you save

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<v Speaker 2>all this money, right? And it is called the Do

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<v Speaker 2>not touch it. Is it is the saving or investment account, right?

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<v Speaker 2>And then you automate it right? You automate it. So

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<v Speaker 2>you pay yourself first. So the first thing that comes in,

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<v Speaker 2>you do that now, but it's a bit hard if

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<v Speaker 2>really you have zero balance right, then it comes down.

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<v Speaker 2>So ideally before you even start, you should really have

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<v Speaker 2>a certain level and then you do this. But if not,

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<v Speaker 2>then what you need to do is that you say, ok,

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<v Speaker 2>I will save towards something and let me call this

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<v Speaker 2>the so called emergency fund. You know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people don't understand what emergency fund is. They think it's

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<v Speaker 2>really for emergencies, but actually it is for the

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<v Speaker 2>emergency of lacking income. Yeah, exactly. So now that we're

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<v Speaker 2>facing more retrenchments, people understand this actually tied you over

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<v Speaker 2>time to income. So set that one up first and

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<v Speaker 2>then accumulate in that account until you have a certain amount. Ok.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is this amount for most employees? People say?

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<v Speaker 2>Six months, 3 to 6 months. Yeah, freelancers, I would

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<v Speaker 2>just say 12 months. Ok. So fill up this bucket

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<v Speaker 2>of your emergency fund in savings and

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<v Speaker 2>always top it back. So that's the first thing that

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<v Speaker 2>you need to do. And I think as a freelancer,

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<v Speaker 2>you can already do that. You are already in a

0:12:14.799 --> 0:12:17.780
<v Speaker 2>very good space, then we can talk about investments later. Right.

0:12:17.789 --> 0:12:20.359
<v Speaker 2>And then if you want to, you can also take

0:12:20.369 --> 0:12:23.109
<v Speaker 2>up all your other, like, fixed expenses that you already

0:12:23.119 --> 0:12:25.700
<v Speaker 2>have and you can actually gyrate from a different account

0:12:25.710 --> 0:12:27.969
<v Speaker 2>if you want, you can have three accounts. Right. So

0:12:27.979 --> 0:12:30.539
<v Speaker 2>that only one is left to spend on. Right. Yeah,

0:12:30.549 --> 0:12:33.619
<v Speaker 2>it's possible. But I think at a minimum, the first

0:12:33.630 --> 0:12:35.919
<v Speaker 2>thing that you should have is actually this saving

0:12:36.429 --> 0:12:38.630
<v Speaker 2>because not many people can handle three accounts. So at

0:12:38.650 --> 0:12:41.669
<v Speaker 2>least two, at least two, in my opinion, at least. Ok.

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.630
<v Speaker 2>So what about setting up an account for business? Is

0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.569
<v Speaker 2>that something that's worth thinking about or do you think

0:12:47.580 --> 0:12:51.409
<v Speaker 2>that's just too many components to consider? No, I think

0:12:51.419 --> 0:12:53.739
<v Speaker 2>it's good because it gives you a discipline to say actually,

0:12:53.750 --> 0:12:55.770
<v Speaker 2>how much are you spending on your business, right. So

0:12:55.780 --> 0:12:58.650
<v Speaker 2>you can actually replicate this thing about like, even when

0:12:58.659 --> 0:13:00.669
<v Speaker 2>you're self employed you're paying yourself. Right. So this is

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.330
<v Speaker 2>actually your salary, like I said, $4000 right? This is

0:13:03.340 --> 0:13:04.320
<v Speaker 2>your salary and then

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.429
<v Speaker 2>that you pay yourself first into your savings. In fact,

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.750
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I think freelancers after a

0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.590
<v Speaker 2>while you can consider is actually to incorporate in the business, right?

0:13:13.599 --> 0:13:17.228
<v Speaker 2>Because when you incorporate business, there are certain advantages, most

0:13:17.239 --> 0:13:20.260
<v Speaker 2>freelancers that I talk to who don't do this, don't

0:13:20.270 --> 0:13:23.189
<v Speaker 2>do it for no other reason than a bit lazy

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:24.650
<v Speaker 2>to go and find out. And it's a bit late.

0:13:25.969 --> 0:13:29.539
<v Speaker 2>But there are, of course, if you are, in fact, the,

0:13:29.549 --> 0:13:32.489
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more enterprising, there are also these start

0:13:32.500 --> 0:13:32.989
<v Speaker 2>up grant

0:13:33.229 --> 0:13:35.739
<v Speaker 2>and the government gives quite a bit for enterprise Singapore

0:13:35.750 --> 0:13:37.090
<v Speaker 2>and you can really go and all you need to

0:13:37.099 --> 0:13:39.549
<v Speaker 2>do is register your business, right? Register it and then

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.590
<v Speaker 2>you start to get grants. And if you are really

0:13:41.599 --> 0:13:43.949
<v Speaker 2>a company, like a private company, you can also have

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 2>certain sme financing and all that and you make your,

0:13:47.890 --> 0:13:51.608
<v Speaker 2>what you bring to the world actually replicable and sustainable

0:13:51.619 --> 0:13:55.070
<v Speaker 2>as exit business, right? But of course, that's not for everyone, right? So,

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.349
<v Speaker 2>but it's something to consider, at least to look into,

0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.049
<v Speaker 2>I would say when you are at the stage, when

0:14:00.059 --> 0:14:01.510
<v Speaker 2>you're about to pay income tax, that means

0:14:01.619 --> 0:14:04.419
<v Speaker 2>you probably might be but do look into it because

0:14:04.429 --> 0:14:07.119
<v Speaker 2>there's quite a lot of support on that part. Yeah, exactly.

0:14:07.130 --> 0:14:10.919
<v Speaker 2>And it's something that individual freelancers don't really think about

0:14:10.929 --> 0:14:13.479
<v Speaker 2>or it doesn't really come to their minds. It's not

0:14:13.489 --> 0:14:15.479
<v Speaker 2>top of their mind because they think of themselves as

0:14:15.489 --> 0:14:19.789
<v Speaker 2>individual workers, not necessarily a business. Ultimately, you are a

0:14:19.799 --> 0:14:23.380
<v Speaker 2>business because you're offering a set of services, right? Even

0:14:23.390 --> 0:14:25.349
<v Speaker 2>though you're just one person. So I wanted to talk

0:14:25.359 --> 0:14:29.340
<v Speaker 2>about what you mentioned earlier, a couple of times the salary.

0:14:29.349 --> 0:14:30.039
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Right.

0:14:30.500 --> 0:14:33.049
<v Speaker 2>And I know it's important to pay myself. But how

0:14:33.059 --> 0:14:37.159
<v Speaker 2>do I define this? Especially when, as we said, some days,

0:14:37.169 --> 0:14:41.390
<v Speaker 2>we're earning 1000, some months, we are earning $30,000. And yes,

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.820
<v Speaker 2>while we should be planning with the year's salary in mind,

0:14:45.979 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 2>how do we actually pay ourselves monthly then as a

0:14:49.330 --> 0:14:53.719
<v Speaker 2>salary when that income generated is inconsistent? How do we

0:14:53.729 --> 0:14:57.239
<v Speaker 2>tackle this? Ok. I think that the main

0:14:57.486 --> 0:15:00.575
<v Speaker 2>reality you need to face is that how good are

0:15:00.585 --> 0:15:03.265
<v Speaker 2>you as a freelancer such that and how much income

0:15:03.276 --> 0:15:07.135
<v Speaker 2>can you actually generate? And it's actually a mindset that

0:15:07.145 --> 0:15:09.406
<v Speaker 2>is not to do with the income side, but to

0:15:09.416 --> 0:15:13.315
<v Speaker 2>do with the expense side if you spend say 25,000

0:15:13.325 --> 0:15:16.906
<v Speaker 2>a year. Ok. On your basic expenses, you should be

0:15:17.046 --> 0:15:20.745
<v Speaker 2>able to generate income of 50,000 before you even go there.

0:15:20.926 --> 0:15:23.145
<v Speaker 2>I'm not even talking about C PM and everything right now. Ok.

0:15:23.156 --> 0:15:24.505
<v Speaker 2>So basically if you can't

0:15:24.581 --> 0:15:26.502
<v Speaker 2>achieve that, you're going to be very stressed. So when

0:15:26.512 --> 0:15:28.671
<v Speaker 2>I say think about your salary, let's say 4000. I'm

0:15:28.682 --> 0:15:31.841
<v Speaker 2>not saying that how you cash flow wise, manage to

0:15:31.851 --> 0:15:35.041
<v Speaker 2>extract this and you can keep it aside because your

0:15:35.052 --> 0:15:36.781
<v Speaker 2>bank account is going to look very weird. It's gonna

0:15:36.791 --> 0:15:39.942
<v Speaker 2>be like it's gonna be, let's say you earn 30,000.

0:15:39.952 --> 0:15:43.182
<v Speaker 2>Then after that it's going to minus minus go back up, right? Yeah.

0:15:43.192 --> 0:15:45.661
<v Speaker 2>So that is the minus minus, you need to know. Right.

0:15:45.671 --> 0:15:47.721
<v Speaker 2>So that means that if you really think that in

0:15:47.731 --> 0:15:49.671
<v Speaker 2>one year you're going to earn 50,000 and you should

0:15:49.682 --> 0:15:51.601
<v Speaker 2>have a good sense of that,

0:15:51.859 --> 0:15:55.359
<v Speaker 2>then you should not be spending more than, let's say, 2000,

0:15:55.369 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 2>2000 a month. Right. And if you can't do that,

0:15:59.270 --> 0:16:03.239
<v Speaker 2>then perhaps you should delay your entry into this space. Right. Yeah.

0:16:03.369 --> 0:16:06.820
<v Speaker 2>Something also to think about. Right. Freelancers actually can lose

0:16:06.830 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 2>work at any given time. Projects can end abruptly and

0:16:11.090 --> 0:16:14.489
<v Speaker 2>in an instant one source of income is gone. How

0:16:14.500 --> 0:16:19.450
<v Speaker 2>do we manage our finances at the current going when

0:16:19.460 --> 0:16:21.719
<v Speaker 2>this happens when this abrupt end happens? And

0:16:22.169 --> 0:16:25.309
<v Speaker 2>obviously my projection is gone now. Right. So, what do

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.489
<v Speaker 2>I do? Yeah. So that's what the emergency fund we

0:16:27.500 --> 0:16:31.119
<v Speaker 2>talked about is there. So, so unlike others, these emergency

0:16:31.130 --> 0:16:32.919
<v Speaker 2>fund might actually be drawn down on a little bit

0:16:32.929 --> 0:16:35.419
<v Speaker 2>more so, or you can get sick, right? And you

0:16:35.609 --> 0:16:37.900
<v Speaker 2>cannot work to eat, right. Yeah. So that's why I

0:16:37.909 --> 0:16:40.950
<v Speaker 2>say 12 months because for, for employees, we might say

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.309
<v Speaker 2>six months or even three months. Right. But it's the

0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:44.039
<v Speaker 2>in between

0:16:44.340 --> 0:16:47.020
<v Speaker 2>living with uncertainty is part of being a freelancer, but

0:16:47.030 --> 0:16:49.349
<v Speaker 2>at least you're having that buffer, you know that you're ok,

0:16:49.359 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 2>you know that you're ok for on paper, it 12 months.

0:16:51.890 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 2>But in reality, it's more like six months, right? But

0:16:53.890 --> 0:16:55.919
<v Speaker 2>you need to understand that this is why you're doing

0:16:55.929 --> 0:16:57.539
<v Speaker 2>it right. It's not that you can don't work for

0:16:57.549 --> 0:16:59.719
<v Speaker 2>12 months. Right. You need to understand that you're talking

0:16:59.729 --> 0:17:03.719
<v Speaker 2>really that 12 months for others is effectively a kind

0:17:03.729 --> 0:17:06.089
<v Speaker 2>of 3 to 6 months buff of. And it's from

0:17:06.099 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>that mindset,

0:17:07.380 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's really about entering into freelancing. You

0:17:11.010 --> 0:17:14.119
<v Speaker 2>need to know when the right time to enter so

0:17:14.130 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>slow months can really be quite full for freelancers. I mean,

0:17:17.569 --> 0:17:20.420
<v Speaker 2>it really was painful for me and it will be

0:17:20.430 --> 0:17:23.688
<v Speaker 2>tempting at this point to lean on credit. How can

0:17:23.699 --> 0:17:27.459
<v Speaker 2>we prevent our credit or debt from spiraling out of

0:17:27.469 --> 0:17:31.359
<v Speaker 2>control when we are freelancing and and when we get

0:17:31.369 --> 0:17:34.199
<v Speaker 2>the slow months, like I was saying that we have

0:17:34.209 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 2>to build this buffer, right? So even if it's hard

0:17:37.479 --> 0:17:40.260
<v Speaker 2>that during your good months, then build even more of it.

0:17:40.780 --> 0:17:43.579
<v Speaker 2>I was saying that you treat yourself as always saving that,

0:17:43.589 --> 0:17:45.750
<v Speaker 2>let's say 20% a month. But let's say you have

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.060
<v Speaker 2>a good month and you're not bringing just 4000, right?

0:17:49.069 --> 0:17:51.290
<v Speaker 2>You're bringing in 20,000, right? And you know that you

0:17:51.300 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 2>also got target annual income is 50,000

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.119
<v Speaker 2>then instead of using the money going to be a

0:17:56.130 --> 0:18:00.389
<v Speaker 2>big party and all that right? 10,000 away it up,

0:18:00.770 --> 0:18:03.948
<v Speaker 2>look it up. Ok? So one of the advantages of

0:18:03.959 --> 0:18:07.680
<v Speaker 2>being a salaried employee is CPF contributions and also income

0:18:07.689 --> 0:18:12.420
<v Speaker 2>tax filings, insurance is done automatically as well. CPF especially

0:18:12.430 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 2>it's a big plank of retirement adequacy, right?

0:18:15.819 --> 0:18:18.579
<v Speaker 2>So what do freelancers need to be conscious about here?

0:18:18.589 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I know you mentioned that the Medisave top up contribution

0:18:21.550 --> 0:18:24.920
<v Speaker 2>or rather the Medisafe contribution monthly needs to be there

0:18:24.930 --> 0:18:26.579
<v Speaker 2>as a freelancer. But what else do we need to

0:18:26.589 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 2>be aware of? So that's by law, right. Medisafe and

0:18:29.810 --> 0:18:31.979
<v Speaker 2>all that and many people don't know that by the way,

0:18:31.989 --> 0:18:34.699
<v Speaker 2>a lot of answers actually don't know. I didn't know

0:18:34.709 --> 0:18:37.459
<v Speaker 2>actually at the time that I was supposed to call,

0:18:37.555 --> 0:18:40.694
<v Speaker 2>contribute to my Medisafe, even if I couldn't afford contributions

0:18:40.704 --> 0:18:43.574
<v Speaker 2>to my O A. Yeah. So actually a lot of freelancer,

0:18:43.584 --> 0:18:46.114
<v Speaker 2>friends of mine didn't know this and they got penalized

0:18:46.125 --> 0:18:48.264
<v Speaker 2>as a result. So please take this as a PSA

0:18:48.275 --> 0:18:50.454
<v Speaker 2>if you are a freelancer, you need to at least

0:18:50.505 --> 0:18:53.655
<v Speaker 2>contribute to your Medisave. But yes, what else should we

0:18:53.665 --> 0:18:56.604
<v Speaker 2>be aware of for CPF is really for the long

0:18:56.614 --> 0:18:59.255
<v Speaker 2>term and it's really for your retirement, right?

0:18:59.589 --> 0:19:03.810
<v Speaker 2>And if you look at what the employees actually contribute

0:19:03.819 --> 0:19:06.060
<v Speaker 2>to their CPF, I think that's a good starting point.

0:19:06.180 --> 0:19:08.189
<v Speaker 2>So I think when you start, and I'm talking about

0:19:08.199 --> 0:19:10.810
<v Speaker 2>special account because special account is really the retirement

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.729
<v Speaker 2>and I think the younger folks will start at 6%

0:19:14.739 --> 0:19:17.880
<v Speaker 2>of their salary, right? And then goes up seven. So

0:19:18.189 --> 0:19:21.199
<v Speaker 2>can you contribute at least that? Right? As if you

0:19:21.209 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>were an employee? And remember I said that you have 50,000, right?

0:19:24.130 --> 0:19:26.369
<v Speaker 2>Then you can go and top up. Right. I think

0:19:26.380 --> 0:19:27.819
<v Speaker 2>in the case of special, don't do it all at

0:19:27.829 --> 0:19:30.469
<v Speaker 2>one go. Yeah, you, you should save all at one

0:19:30.479 --> 0:19:33.569
<v Speaker 2>go that 10,000. But at least take that step of

0:19:33.579 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 2>saying that, ok, I'm not worse off than if I

0:19:36.290 --> 0:19:36.739
<v Speaker 2>were

0:19:37.030 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 2>an employee because I've taken this step myself and I've

0:19:39.890 --> 0:19:42.698
<v Speaker 2>seen people who have done that because they appreciate that 4%

0:19:42.709 --> 0:19:45.260
<v Speaker 2>will compound and it's really a big difference. Yeah. And

0:19:45.270 --> 0:19:47.010
<v Speaker 2>don't say to yourself that I'm only going to start

0:19:47.020 --> 0:19:50.889
<v Speaker 2>later when I am in this stage because time is

0:19:50.900 --> 0:19:54.530
<v Speaker 2>your friend and you just delay 10 years and you

0:19:54.540 --> 0:19:57.349
<v Speaker 2>have to save, I think of an eye and you

0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.849
<v Speaker 2>have not much to begin with. That's right. Yeah. And

0:19:59.859 --> 0:20:02.569
<v Speaker 2>especially in a freelancer, you're dependent on your own labor,

0:20:02.579 --> 0:20:03.920
<v Speaker 2>your own health, your own,

0:20:04.300 --> 0:20:06.670
<v Speaker 2>you know, so unless you build an editable business, you

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.640
<v Speaker 2>will depend on yourself and one day you will no

0:20:09.650 --> 0:20:12.599
<v Speaker 2>longer be able to earn and you will still have

0:20:12.609 --> 0:20:15.300
<v Speaker 2>to spend. And that is the reality. This is why

0:20:15.310 --> 0:20:18.660
<v Speaker 2>they say health really is wealth without health. You can't work,

0:20:18.670 --> 0:20:19.718
<v Speaker 2>but you can't control some things, right?

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.790
<v Speaker 2>You can't control something. Yeah. Correct. I wanted to go

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.569
<v Speaker 2>back to insurance and the same thing when I was

0:20:25.579 --> 0:20:29.709
<v Speaker 2>freelancing for something like over a decade, my insurance agent

0:20:29.719 --> 0:20:32.889
<v Speaker 2>or my financial planner at the time said, ok, now

0:20:32.900 --> 0:20:35.339
<v Speaker 2>that you're freelancing, I think you should consider

0:20:35.619 --> 0:20:38.150
<v Speaker 2>the different kind of plan. So for example, a plan

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.800
<v Speaker 2>with stronger income protection because if anything were to happen

0:20:41.810 --> 0:20:44.910
<v Speaker 2>to you physically and you won't be able to earn

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.540
<v Speaker 2>the same that you're earning now that income protection will

0:20:48.550 --> 0:20:51.140
<v Speaker 2>be in place to make sure that you're covered. So,

0:20:51.150 --> 0:20:53.390
<v Speaker 2>is that something that we should be thinking about as well?

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:58.479
<v Speaker 2>The type of insurance plans that we should be looking at? Ok. Yeah,

0:20:58.670 --> 0:21:02.239
<v Speaker 2>know where that's coming from, right. So there are roughly speaking,

0:21:02.250 --> 0:21:05.208
<v Speaker 2>two types of risks that you need to guard against, right?

0:21:05.339 --> 0:21:09.550
<v Speaker 2>One is the big bills and those are almost always

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.300
<v Speaker 2>medical bills, right? So if you're going to hospital and

0:21:12.310 --> 0:21:14.420
<v Speaker 2>all that, right? So the good thing is that we

0:21:14.430 --> 0:21:18.250
<v Speaker 2>all have a Medishield Life, right? We do recommend that

0:21:18.260 --> 0:21:21.609
<v Speaker 2>you take an integrated Shield plan because they

0:21:21.859 --> 0:21:25.420
<v Speaker 2>there are limits to Medishield Life and this integrated Shield

0:21:25.430 --> 0:21:28.160
<v Speaker 2>plan is not expensive. Yeah, we're talking about a few

0:21:28.170 --> 0:21:31.260
<v Speaker 2>$100 from your Medisafe. Don't do the private one or

0:21:31.300 --> 0:21:34.149
<v Speaker 2>at least do the B one. Yes, correct. And the

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.369
<v Speaker 2>main thing you are insuring that is your insurability and

0:21:36.449 --> 0:21:38.109
<v Speaker 2>because if you start too late by the time you

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.270
<v Speaker 2>want to do something you can't. So this is one

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.500
<v Speaker 2>type of insurance, right? Then the other type is actually

0:21:43.510 --> 0:21:46.369
<v Speaker 2>income protection, correct? Loss of income. Yes, that's why. Yeah.

0:21:46.692 --> 0:21:48.612
<v Speaker 2>So there are actually three types of things that can

0:21:48.621 --> 0:21:50.670
<v Speaker 2>cause you to lose your income or three types of

0:21:50.682 --> 0:21:54.401
<v Speaker 2>risks which you can't control. One is death. Yeah, obviously

0:21:54.411 --> 0:21:57.271
<v Speaker 2>this only matters to you if you have dependents and

0:21:57.281 --> 0:22:00.281
<v Speaker 2>the under the CPF scheme, as long as you have

0:22:00.291 --> 0:22:02.911
<v Speaker 2>some money in the O A for them to deduct,

0:22:02.921 --> 0:22:07.521
<v Speaker 2>to premiums for the dependence protection scheme gives you 70,000

0:22:07.531 --> 0:22:10.031
<v Speaker 2>sum assurance coverage. But it's not for you. It's for

0:22:10.041 --> 0:22:11.421
<v Speaker 2>your dependence because it's there.

0:22:11.523 --> 0:22:13.374
<v Speaker 2>right? You'll be gone. But yeah, it depends a lot

0:22:13.384 --> 0:22:16.784
<v Speaker 2>on your dependents whether you have dependents. Sure that if

0:22:16.792 --> 0:22:19.813
<v Speaker 2>you do and you need that, then the other option

0:22:19.823 --> 0:22:22.673
<v Speaker 2>that you can consider is uh besides that if you

0:22:22.683 --> 0:22:25.973
<v Speaker 2>are an NS Man or NSF, the SF group insurance

0:22:25.984 --> 0:22:27.913
<v Speaker 2>or ma mh A group insurance is very good value

0:22:27.923 --> 0:22:30.264
<v Speaker 2>and it, that's the most important thing. It is portable.

0:22:30.273 --> 0:22:33.104
<v Speaker 2>So I like a lot of group insurance. What do

0:22:33.114 --> 0:22:35.504
<v Speaker 2>you mean by portable means? You, in this case, you

0:22:35.513 --> 0:22:36.264
<v Speaker 2>don't have to be a min

0:22:36.355 --> 0:22:39.696
<v Speaker 2>employee on NSFNS Men in order to continue with it.

0:22:40.225 --> 0:22:43.156
<v Speaker 2>My first career was with Mindef as a civilian officer, right?

0:22:43.166 --> 0:22:46.855
<v Speaker 2>So I actually hold that plan still to today. Wow. So,

0:22:46.865 --> 0:22:49.196
<v Speaker 2>so even if you had not been a mind dev

0:22:49.205 --> 0:22:51.946
<v Speaker 2>employee for a long time after you just need to continue, right?

0:22:51.955 --> 0:22:54.975
<v Speaker 2>And so that applies to like half the population because

0:22:55.005 --> 0:22:57.776
<v Speaker 2>everyone is an NSF, right? So then you just continue

0:22:57.786 --> 0:23:00.365
<v Speaker 2>as an NS man and and pay that part because

0:23:00.375 --> 0:23:01.095
<v Speaker 2>during your ns

0:23:01.387 --> 0:23:04.737
<v Speaker 2>days, Minde pays for that, that portion of home team

0:23:04.767 --> 0:23:06.427
<v Speaker 2>pays for that portion. This is one of those tricks

0:23:06.436 --> 0:23:08.618
<v Speaker 2>because nobody will sell you guys. There's no commission to

0:23:08.637 --> 0:23:11.008
<v Speaker 2>check with my husband about his. Yes. Yes. And then

0:23:11.017 --> 0:23:14.067
<v Speaker 2>he can cover, you can cover you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So,

0:23:14.078 --> 0:23:17.078
<v Speaker 2>so there's a low cost way. So DP si mean

0:23:17.088 --> 0:23:20.197
<v Speaker 2>they have mh a group insurance but if not, then

0:23:20.208 --> 0:23:23.316
<v Speaker 2>there's a direct purchase insurance, purchase insurance. You don't have

0:23:23.328 --> 0:23:25.657
<v Speaker 2>commissions and all that. You can even go online and

0:23:25.667 --> 0:23:25.927
<v Speaker 2>all that.

0:23:26.209 --> 0:23:29.510
<v Speaker 2>Now the recommendation is nine times your income or you

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:33.079
<v Speaker 2>can do a better what your family need and all

0:23:33.089 --> 0:23:35.420
<v Speaker 2>that kind of thing and it actually can be very

0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 2>cost effective. So that's one way. So the first thing

0:23:38.260 --> 0:23:41.478
<v Speaker 2>about income protection is really death, right? And then the

0:23:41.489 --> 0:23:45.069
<v Speaker 2>second thing is critical illness. Now the critical illness is

0:23:45.079 --> 0:23:48.709
<v Speaker 2>basically cancer, heart attack and that kind of thing and

0:23:48.719 --> 0:23:50.829
<v Speaker 2>the basic critical illness is to cover you in the

0:23:50.839 --> 0:23:53.839
<v Speaker 2>late stage, right? And so so people think that oh,

0:23:53.849 --> 0:23:55.550
<v Speaker 2>I need this to cover for my

0:23:55.660 --> 0:24:01.319
<v Speaker 2>expenses actually. No, for chemotherapy dialysis, all this outpatient stuff

0:24:01.449 --> 0:24:04.209
<v Speaker 2>is actually covered by your shield plan, right? So what

0:24:04.219 --> 0:24:06.199
<v Speaker 2>is this for? This is in case you cannot work.

0:24:06.260 --> 0:24:08.739
<v Speaker 2>So that could have been what your financial planner was

0:24:08.750 --> 0:24:11.250
<v Speaker 2>saying you have a critical illness. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

0:24:11.569 --> 0:24:14.040
<v Speaker 2>But the thing is that nowadays with screening and all

0:24:14.050 --> 0:24:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that we detect early critical illness quite a lot. That's right.

0:24:17.010 --> 0:24:20.199
<v Speaker 2>And most of these plans do not cover early critical illness.

0:24:20.719 --> 0:24:23.270
<v Speaker 2>But if you buy early critical, it's very expensive. So

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the thing is that you have to balance, right.

0:24:25.109 --> 0:24:27.839
<v Speaker 2>So we usually say go at least for the late

0:24:27.849 --> 0:24:30.369
<v Speaker 2>stage one because that's when you really can't work a

0:24:30.380 --> 0:24:33.319
<v Speaker 2>lot of people during the early stages of cancers and

0:24:33.329 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 2>all that, they can still work. In fact, they just

0:24:35.170 --> 0:24:36.819
<v Speaker 2>take MC and go and then they go back. So

0:24:36.829 --> 0:24:38.688
<v Speaker 2>what you need, you need to cover your hospital bill,

0:24:38.699 --> 0:24:40.579
<v Speaker 2>then you need to be able to get back and

0:24:40.589 --> 0:24:42.650
<v Speaker 2>do that and then do your chemo that right? So

0:24:42.660 --> 0:24:46.339
<v Speaker 2>what you can do is because most early stuff is

0:24:46.349 --> 0:24:49.729
<v Speaker 2>actually have cancer, most of most cancer, correct? Yeah. So

0:24:49.739 --> 0:24:53.810
<v Speaker 2>you can get very cheap cancer plans that cover you.

0:24:53.819 --> 0:24:54.479
<v Speaker 2>So that's that.

0:24:54.810 --> 0:24:58.209
<v Speaker 2>So that's the second type. So the critical illness recommendation

0:24:58.219 --> 0:25:01.229
<v Speaker 2>including MS basic financial planning is about four times your

0:25:01.239 --> 0:25:04.930
<v Speaker 2>income for your annual income. That is actually for recuperation

0:25:04.939 --> 0:25:07.339
<v Speaker 2>because why four times because when you get a late

0:25:07.349 --> 0:25:09.989
<v Speaker 2>stage critical illness, it tends to be that either you

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.629
<v Speaker 2>survive beyond four years or you don't. So that's the recommendation.

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:15.109
<v Speaker 2>So this to the

0:25:15.209 --> 0:25:19.189
<v Speaker 2>third one is what you call occupational disability. So sometimes

0:25:19.199 --> 0:25:21.489
<v Speaker 2>you get something, it could be an early critical illness

0:25:21.500 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 2>or it could be, let's say a presenter and the

0:25:23.810 --> 0:25:26.379
<v Speaker 2>loss of your voice or whatever. Yeah. And the cancer,

0:25:26.390 --> 0:25:28.060
<v Speaker 2>the critical illness insurance is not going to pay out.

0:25:28.089 --> 0:25:30.629
<v Speaker 2>You're not gonna pay out, but you might also suffer

0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:33.569
<v Speaker 2>in some cases like depression and all that. These are

0:25:33.579 --> 0:25:35.500
<v Speaker 2>all good to have. Yeah, but at them

0:25:35.630 --> 0:25:38.219
<v Speaker 2>up, right. Add them all up. MS Basic financial planning

0:25:38.229 --> 0:25:40.619
<v Speaker 2>guide says all your insurance should not exceed 15% of

0:25:40.630 --> 0:25:43.188
<v Speaker 2>your take home pay. Ok. So I would say that

0:25:43.199 --> 0:25:45.989
<v Speaker 2>even 10% sounds a bit much because 15% here then

0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:48.219
<v Speaker 2>you need to save, right? Isn't it bad? I rather

0:25:48.229 --> 0:25:50.739
<v Speaker 2>you have as much in savings as well, then you

0:25:50.750 --> 0:25:53.729
<v Speaker 2>need to eat right? So 50% of that insurance and

0:25:53.739 --> 0:25:55.910
<v Speaker 2>then accumulation for the future and remember that

0:25:56.319 --> 0:25:58.839
<v Speaker 2>you don't have CPS. So it's not 100% another 70

0:25:59.689 --> 0:26:01.780
<v Speaker 2>before you know it, all of it is used up

0:26:01.790 --> 0:26:04.199
<v Speaker 2>and allocated already. That's right. Yeah. So I think insurance

0:26:04.209 --> 0:26:07.449
<v Speaker 2>really pay as little as you can maximize your coverage.

0:26:07.459 --> 0:26:10.429
<v Speaker 2>Use term insurance, use, use nice hacks like S a

0:26:10.439 --> 0:26:14.290
<v Speaker 2>group insurance, use direct purchase insurance and then all the

0:26:14.300 --> 0:26:17.229
<v Speaker 2>other fear and uncertainty or that, that that might be

0:26:17.410 --> 0:26:20.109
<v Speaker 2>used on you. You just have to have that enough

0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:23.698
<v Speaker 2>knowledge and literacy to, to say, look, I have to

0:26:23.709 --> 0:26:24.500
<v Speaker 2>focus on

0:26:24.719 --> 0:26:27.020
<v Speaker 2>my financial plan must be based on my being able

0:26:27.030 --> 0:26:29.300
<v Speaker 2>to earn, being able to thrive, not based on me dying.

0:26:31.489 --> 0:26:35.500
<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly the literacy is exactly why we are

0:26:35.510 --> 0:26:37.939
<v Speaker 2>doing this episode. So, Chun Ting, thank you very, very

0:26:37.949 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 2>much for walking us through all of that, very comprehensive indeed.

0:26:41.770 --> 0:26:44.589
<v Speaker 2>And you know what, I wish I had this advice

0:26:44.599 --> 0:26:46.948
<v Speaker 2>when I was freelancing all those years ago. But you

0:26:46.959 --> 0:26:49.479
<v Speaker 2>know what, it is still beneficial even if you are

0:26:49.489 --> 0:26:51.709
<v Speaker 2>a salary employee because you never know what's going to happen.

0:26:56.479 --> 0:26:59.339
<v Speaker 2>Now, before we let you go, there's a segment here

0:26:59.349 --> 0:27:02.310
<v Speaker 2>on the Money Talks podcast. It's called Questions from Ahead.

0:27:02.319 --> 0:27:04.219
<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what it is. I'll just need you

0:27:04.229 --> 0:27:06.229
<v Speaker 2>to pick one hand it to me and I ask

0:27:06.239 --> 0:27:11.229
<v Speaker 2>you the question. All right. Ok. And your question is,

0:27:12.229 --> 0:27:16.179
<v Speaker 2>oh, what do you spend the most money on?

0:27:18.270 --> 0:27:20.670
<v Speaker 2>Ok. Let's put aside kind of mortgage and all that

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 2>because I think that's probably one of the biggest. Yeah.

0:27:24.219 --> 0:27:26.550
<v Speaker 2>So I think I spend the most money on my Children,

0:27:27.770 --> 0:27:30.889
<v Speaker 2>Children stuff and all that. But even I have to

0:27:30.900 --> 0:27:33.500
<v Speaker 2>look at it and say actually what they want most

0:27:33.510 --> 0:27:34.959
<v Speaker 2>from you is probably your time,

0:27:35.185 --> 0:27:38.755
<v Speaker 2>your attention to bond with you. We don't always have

0:27:38.765 --> 0:27:41.474
<v Speaker 2>to go for that expensive restaurant and all that. Yeah.

0:27:41.484 --> 0:27:44.313
<v Speaker 2>So it's a good reminder to myself to think about

0:27:44.324 --> 0:27:47.555
<v Speaker 2>what really matters. That's what's priceless, isn't it that time?

0:27:47.564 --> 0:27:50.734
<v Speaker 2>And that energy and that love with the kids, it's priceless.

0:27:50.744 --> 0:27:53.504
<v Speaker 2>You can't put a dollar sign on that lovely answer.

0:27:53.535 --> 0:27:56.064
<v Speaker 2>Chun Ting. Once again, thank you so much for being

0:27:56.074 --> 0:27:57.494
<v Speaker 2>on the money. Thank you for me. Yeah,

0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>and listener, I hope this episode assures you that it

0:28:01.689 --> 0:28:05.829
<v Speaker 2>actually is possible for you to achieve good financial habits

0:28:05.839 --> 0:28:09.619
<v Speaker 2>and health. While freelancing, there are ways for you to

0:28:09.630 --> 0:28:12.979
<v Speaker 2>survive and also thrive as a freelancer. If you have

0:28:12.989 --> 0:28:15.929
<v Speaker 2>any thoughts or questions about this episode, please send us

0:28:15.939 --> 0:28:17.739
<v Speaker 2>a message we'd love to hear from you.

0:28:17.885 --> 0:28:21.784
<v Speaker 2>This podcast is available on Apple podcasts and Spotify as

0:28:21.795 --> 0:28:25.025
<v Speaker 2>well as youtube music. Don't forget to rate us if

0:28:25.035 --> 0:28:28.594
<v Speaker 2>you are enjoying this podcast. My thanks to the team,

0:28:28.604 --> 0:28:33.175
<v Speaker 2>Joanne Chan Tiffany, Ang, Christina Robert, Juani Johari and Sai

0:28:33.185 --> 0:28:36.305
<v Speaker 2>Ye Wint. I'm Andrea Heng. Thank you for listening to

0:28:36.314 --> 0:28:37.535
<v Speaker 2>the Money Talks podcast.