1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,340 Speaker 1: This is a C. N. A. Podcast 2 00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:05,529 Speaker 1: in a few words, can you just give us your 3 00:00:05,530 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: thoughts on the following women and money? 4 00:00:09,170 --> 00:00:11,789 Speaker 2: Women can be very good with money, 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,430 Speaker 1: risk appetite 6 00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: more conservative, but 7 00:00:17,810 --> 00:00:19,579 Speaker 2: that may make them better investors. 8 00:00:20,489 --> 00:00:22,970 Speaker 1: Men versus women in investing 9 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:24,540 Speaker 2: Overrated. 10 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Hello and Happy New Year. Welcome to money talks. I'm 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,380 Speaker 1: Sarah called when you think of famous investors, what name 13 00:00:50,380 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: comes to mind? Well, I bet you thought Warren Buffett 14 00:00:53,770 --> 00:00:58,490 Speaker 1: or local billionaire peter lim? For some reason women don't 15 00:00:58,490 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: make the list of well known financial gurus. It's strange 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,750 Speaker 1: because if you think about the home wives and mothers 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,980 Speaker 1: are likely to be the ones who know exactly what 18 00:01:08,980 --> 00:01:11,429 Speaker 1: goes in and comes out each month. 19 00:01:11,444 --> 00:01:15,804 Speaker 1: That's since they handle the bulk of caregiving duties. Well, 20 00:01:15,805 --> 00:01:19,275 Speaker 1: I for one I know how much milk and diverse 21 00:01:19,275 --> 00:01:24,545 Speaker 1: costs but the data shows that men still make big 22 00:01:24,555 --> 00:01:29,645 Speaker 1: money decisions from buying insurance to deciding on which stocks 23 00:01:29,645 --> 00:01:31,395 Speaker 1: or bonds to invest in. 24 00:01:31,690 --> 00:01:35,580 Speaker 1: So why is that? And do women lack the confidence 25 00:01:35,590 --> 00:01:39,670 Speaker 1: or the risk appetite to take greater care and control 26 00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: of their money? Well, my guest today thinks women in 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,150 Speaker 1: fact make great investors and you want to hear why 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: chu is the ceo of private market investment platform A. D. D. X. 29 00:01:52,810 --> 00:01:54,250 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. 30 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,940 Speaker 2: Thanks and love being here with you sarah. 31 00:01:57,950 --> 00:02:00,630 Speaker 1: You've been in the finance world for some time and 32 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: in my time with business news, we come across a 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: lot of men in the industry aside from the professional space. 34 00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:10,429 Speaker 1: Even talking with friends, it's usually the men who are 35 00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:13,570 Speaker 1: interested in finance and investments. They're the ones who come 36 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:16,350 Speaker 1: up to me at least and have all sorts of questions, 37 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,070 Speaker 1: where do you think the property market will go or 38 00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: where do you think the stock market we go, women? 39 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: Not so much. What's your experience like talking to women 40 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: and in the women that you're in touch with? 41 00:02:27,650 --> 00:02:30,389 Speaker 2: I think that's absolutely right, right. Kind of reflected on 42 00:02:30,389 --> 00:02:34,970 Speaker 2: my conversations with my friends and it's usually the men 43 00:02:34,970 --> 00:02:37,179 Speaker 2: that I have a conversation with investing and it could 44 00:02:37,180 --> 00:02:40,310 Speaker 2: be across anything. It could be property, it could be 45 00:02:40,310 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: krypto it could be sort of what, what's good out there, 46 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,470 Speaker 2: what we like, what we not like transit tends to 47 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:48,350 Speaker 2: be with the man. And by the way, I'm in 48 00:02:48,350 --> 00:02:51,620 Speaker 2: the finance sector. Right. So that already says something. 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 2: It is not that often that I have conversations with 50 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,820 Speaker 2: my women friends who are not in finance sector. So 51 00:02:58,830 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: with women friends who are in the finance sector, then 52 00:03:01,370 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: there is some level of discussion as to what we're 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,940 Speaker 2: investing in private versus public. So I like to take 54 00:03:06,940 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: different points of view. I hear what other people are 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,549 Speaker 2: saying how they are expressed. 56 00:03:10,565 --> 00:03:13,744 Speaker 2: They're investing, absorb it. But I have to say with 57 00:03:13,745 --> 00:03:16,734 Speaker 2: a number of my women friends who are not in 58 00:03:16,735 --> 00:03:19,825 Speaker 2: the finance sector. I tend not to have that conversation, 59 00:03:19,825 --> 00:03:23,514 Speaker 2: not deliberately. So we talk about other things. Kids, what's 60 00:03:23,514 --> 00:03:27,755 Speaker 2: happening politically. The general sort of gossip out there, right? 61 00:03:27,755 --> 00:03:29,415 Speaker 2: Not so much more investing 62 00:03:29,425 --> 00:03:35,515 Speaker 1: in your household. Do you play a bigger role in managing? 63 00:03:35,515 --> 00:03:38,435 Speaker 1: Not just your day to day finances, but the planning, 64 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,250 Speaker 1: the long term investment planning? 65 00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:43,340 Speaker 2: Yeah. Even for me, I think planning is a little 66 00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:48,890 Speaker 2: bit of an overstatement. Part of that is because I 67 00:03:48,890 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: am the one in the finance sector. So I tend 68 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,580 Speaker 2: to be much more sensitive to investing and think a 69 00:03:56,580 --> 00:03:59,780 Speaker 2: bit more about, let's say property, how much leverage we 70 00:03:59,780 --> 00:04:03,020 Speaker 2: should be doing or what's the trend in the public 71 00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: markets or the private markets? How do we then plan 72 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:06,940 Speaker 2: for that? 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,980 Speaker 2: Because I'm also thinking about the not so much the 74 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:13,130 Speaker 2: day to day finances, but also in the midterm my 75 00:04:13,130 --> 00:04:16,900 Speaker 2: daughters in the teenage years. And so we're going to 76 00:04:16,900 --> 00:04:20,550 Speaker 2: start planning about universities. Do they study abroad? Did they 77 00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:23,789 Speaker 2: study locally? And therefore the financial planning comes with that. Right. 78 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:28,060 Speaker 2: When would we need that money? How do we manage that? So, 79 00:04:28,070 --> 00:04:31,780 Speaker 2: in our household, it also just happens because I'm a 80 00:04:31,779 --> 00:04:34,150 Speaker 2: bit more sensitive to that, that I look at that 81 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,330 Speaker 2: a lot more carefully. 82 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:38,890 Speaker 1: What do you think the approach general approach that women 83 00:04:38,890 --> 00:04:42,950 Speaker 1: have when it comes to investing, especially for those who 84 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,690 Speaker 1: don't have a finance background or don't work in the 85 00:04:46,690 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: finance industry. 86 00:04:48,210 --> 00:04:50,750 Speaker 2: Sarah a lot of men don't work in the finance industry. 87 00:04:50,750 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: That's true, right? 88 00:04:52,089 --> 00:04:54,460 Speaker 2: I saw it when I was in the university already 89 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:56,810 Speaker 2: that men tend to be a lot more active thinking 90 00:04:56,810 --> 00:04:58,870 Speaker 2: about stocks and they would talk to each other about 91 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: trading and how they would make money. 92 00:05:01,150 --> 00:05:04,060 Speaker 2: And I think for them it starts very early, it 93 00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: could be a social thing. I am not sure it 94 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,460 Speaker 2: could just be that in Singapore for example, the men 95 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:11,930 Speaker 2: spent two years in the army. So they're also more 96 00:05:11,930 --> 00:05:13,740 Speaker 2: mature when they come to the university and a bit 97 00:05:13,740 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: more active thinking about the wealth. Either protection or growth. Right? 98 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,500 Speaker 2: And they start making money a bit earlier because in 99 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:22,810 Speaker 2: the army they're already getting some kind of a statement. 100 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:23,860 Speaker 1: So 101 00:05:23,860 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: it's not like being born. A man gives you that 102 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,340 Speaker 2: natural financial savviness. Women just have to acknowledge that right 103 00:05:31,339 --> 00:05:34,940 Speaker 2: today with social media, with the internet, there's actually a 104 00:05:34,940 --> 00:05:39,270 Speaker 2: lot of resources at hand to under start understanding investing 105 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,830 Speaker 2: and I'm sure that a lot of resources out there 106 00:05:41,830 --> 00:05:44,010 Speaker 2: as well that you can go to for beginners, like 107 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:46,890 Speaker 2: a one on one on investing. So the first part 108 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:50,339 Speaker 2: is building some kind of a knowledge base and then 109 00:05:50,339 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: the second part becomes the confidence in investing because we 110 00:05:53,370 --> 00:05:57,060 Speaker 2: all know that even with today's fixed deposits, putting money 111 00:05:57,060 --> 00:05:59,990 Speaker 2: in cash, which apparently a lot of women do, it's 112 00:05:59,990 --> 00:06:03,510 Speaker 2: not enough, it will not help you grow wealth at best, 113 00:06:03,510 --> 00:06:06,309 Speaker 2: you are keeping on par with inflation 114 00:06:06,770 --> 00:06:10,370 Speaker 2: and it's not gonna help you actually grow the asset 115 00:06:10,370 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: that you have. So knowledge is the first and then 116 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,580 Speaker 2: the second is confidence and actually confidence come from making 117 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:21,190 Speaker 2: some decisions, having an opinion as to what to invest 118 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:22,610 Speaker 2: in and you can start small 119 00:06:23,130 --> 00:06:26,510 Speaker 2: and then understanding over time, what happens when you make 120 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: money and when you lose money and understanding both the 121 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,450 Speaker 2: market dynamics and your own psychology of that. And then 122 00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: that I think will help you build, will help a 123 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,070 Speaker 2: woman or any investor for that matter grow confidence. 124 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,690 Speaker 1: So in a sense, in terms of the tools, in 125 00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:44,340 Speaker 1: terms of the information, 126 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:47,900 Speaker 1: we have the same tools as men really. 127 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: Yes, and 128 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,810 Speaker 1: we should be able to jump in there the same 129 00:06:51,820 --> 00:06:55,810 Speaker 1: way or maybe the same degree that men do. 130 00:06:55,820 --> 00:06:59,529 Speaker 2: I agree with that to a very large extent. The 131 00:06:59,529 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: other thing that women need to be a bit more 132 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,510 Speaker 2: conscious about this is something that's quite interesting as I 133 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,739 Speaker 2: reflected upon it. 134 00:07:06,290 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: Women tend to take on a lot right, women are 135 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,590 Speaker 2: known for their multitasking and women do take on a 136 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,540 Speaker 2: lot of responsibilities, even if they're working or not working, 137 00:07:17,550 --> 00:07:21,900 Speaker 2: they take on responsibilities at home around the kids, around finances, 138 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:27,390 Speaker 2: around planning. So their mind is generally extremely engaged all 139 00:07:27,390 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: the time across a huge number of areas that they 140 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:31,610 Speaker 2: need to think and manage 141 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:35,910 Speaker 2: and women don't necessarily stop to think about investing, investing 142 00:07:35,910 --> 00:07:38,990 Speaker 2: is probably one of the last few things they would 143 00:07:38,990 --> 00:07:41,179 Speaker 2: even think about because they've just got so much on 144 00:07:41,180 --> 00:07:41,790 Speaker 2: their mind. 145 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: Um Whereas I think men, in a social setting at work, 146 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,650 Speaker 2: for example, they probably do tend to sit around talk 147 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: about what's happening politically and they start talking about what 148 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,980 Speaker 2: they're investing in, what are some of the key trends. 149 00:07:54,990 --> 00:07:57,510 Speaker 2: And then they pick up from each other. Women tend 150 00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:59,730 Speaker 2: to sit sort of in a social setting. Even at work, 151 00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:02,100 Speaker 2: talk about kids, talk about what's happening 152 00:08:02,115 --> 00:08:04,805 Speaker 2: politically. They don't really talk about what's happening in the 153 00:08:04,805 --> 00:08:08,225 Speaker 2: investing space. So it does take a lot more than 154 00:08:08,225 --> 00:08:14,525 Speaker 2: just reading up. There is probably an opportunity to create 155 00:08:14,535 --> 00:08:18,375 Speaker 2: maybe a social group or deliberately create that social discussion 156 00:08:18,385 --> 00:08:21,145 Speaker 2: so that then they can get ideas from different friends 157 00:08:21,145 --> 00:08:21,825 Speaker 2: as well. 158 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:24,730 Speaker 1: You made a good point about how there's so much 159 00:08:24,730 --> 00:08:28,580 Speaker 1: going on sometimes in our minds and it's hard to 160 00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:30,750 Speaker 1: think long term, right? I mean we're just trying to 161 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:33,410 Speaker 1: get the week, I'm just trying to get groceries. I'm 162 00:08:33,410 --> 00:08:35,980 Speaker 1: just trying to get the kids to bed and now 163 00:08:35,980 --> 00:08:37,860 Speaker 1: you want me to think about the next 30 years. 164 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:40,980 Speaker 1: So it's just so hard to wrap my head around it. 165 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:44,450 Speaker 1: That's the issue with the headspace and how we're so busy. 166 00:08:44,460 --> 00:08:46,510 Speaker 1: But how about risk, 167 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:49,910 Speaker 1: do you think there is a difference between men and 168 00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:54,179 Speaker 1: women when it comes to how risky they can become. 169 00:08:54,190 --> 00:08:58,070 Speaker 1: Do we just feel like investing is too risky, especially 170 00:08:58,070 --> 00:09:01,030 Speaker 1: once you have a lot of responsibilities on your plate, 171 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,849 Speaker 1: Children and homes, is it too much when it comes 172 00:09:04,850 --> 00:09:07,150 Speaker 1: to how risky we can get? 173 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,189 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that there is an interplay right in 174 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:12,050 Speaker 2: the family. 175 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,490 Speaker 2: Um because as a mother and as a woman, you 176 00:09:16,490 --> 00:09:20,950 Speaker 2: tend to have a very protectionist IQ approach to your household, 177 00:09:20,950 --> 00:09:24,030 Speaker 2: your finances and therefore, I think women, when they have 178 00:09:24,030 --> 00:09:27,990 Speaker 2: a choice to think about investing or finances, they tend 179 00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: to start very conservatively. That's why a lot of that's 180 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: in cash then they think about insurance because they want 181 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,699 Speaker 2: to think about, okay, how do I make sure that 182 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: this is locked up, this is protected. This is that 183 00:09:39,010 --> 00:09:40,350 Speaker 2: particular nest 184 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,460 Speaker 2: that I can rely on, that my kids can feel 185 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 2: sheltered and financially protected. So that kind of that starting 186 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: point is there, I think sometimes for the men, because 187 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,220 Speaker 2: they know that the women is taking care of that, 188 00:09:53,230 --> 00:09:54,170 Speaker 1: right? 189 00:09:54,179 --> 00:09:58,599 Speaker 2: Right. That's my hypothesis. Right. Then they sort of say, look, 190 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,010 Speaker 2: the safety bit is taken care of. They can then 191 00:10:02,010 --> 00:10:04,750 Speaker 2: start thinking about how do they then grow that wealth 192 00:10:04,750 --> 00:10:07,850 Speaker 2: and then growing that wealth, they probably tend to be 193 00:10:07,850 --> 00:10:09,490 Speaker 2: able to take more risk 194 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,650 Speaker 2: and say for the long term I can accept a 195 00:10:12,650 --> 00:10:16,970 Speaker 2: loss ratio in exchange for a higher return. Right? So, 196 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:21,429 Speaker 2: so men skip those basic steps and go straight into that, 197 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 2: there is a space in between and I think that 198 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: women could think about that space in between. And we 199 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: all have seen many studies because of the way women 200 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: think and invest and actually likely to be less reactive 201 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,890 Speaker 2: to the markets and less emotional that women actually better investors. 202 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,900 Speaker 2: And so there's probably a space in between the very 203 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:46,309 Speaker 2: very 100% capital protected safety type financial products into the 204 00:10:46,309 --> 00:10:49,940 Speaker 2: high risk products. And that in between is where women 205 00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: can expand their knowledge base to be more effective with 206 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,530 Speaker 2: their money in the capital, 207 00:10:54,790 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: there is space for you to balance that out and 208 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,940 Speaker 1: help your household stay in that middle ground. 209 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: Some 210 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,579 Speaker 1: women may think my husband likes it, my husband enjoys 211 00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:10,700 Speaker 1: it and so far he's been doing good, maybe he's 212 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: better than me. 213 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: Is there a case for just letting them do it? 214 00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:20,380 Speaker 1: Just handing it off to your husband? Why should we 215 00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: be involved? And how important is it for us to 216 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,650 Speaker 1: dip our toes in this matter? 217 00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: I observe some of these and and obviously men are 218 00:11:34,610 --> 00:11:38,430 Speaker 2: very happy being the one who are investing and taking 219 00:11:38,429 --> 00:11:39,510 Speaker 2: all that risk. 220 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,650 Speaker 2: If that were the case, I would not stay completely 221 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:47,090 Speaker 2: oblivious because at the end of the day, the portfolio 222 00:11:47,090 --> 00:11:51,860 Speaker 2: is a family portfolio and so if the risk is 223 00:11:51,860 --> 00:11:57,250 Speaker 2: taken and for whatever reason you lose money off that portfolio, 224 00:11:57,260 --> 00:12:02,740 Speaker 2: what is that safety net? So the question is whether 225 00:12:02,750 --> 00:12:06,220 Speaker 2: the two ends of the barbells are being guarded or 226 00:12:06,220 --> 00:12:08,550 Speaker 2: some parameter at which 227 00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: the overall capital is okay because you're actually building for 228 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,540 Speaker 2: the future. And if all of that money is run 229 00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:18,730 Speaker 2: into a very high risk portfolio, for example. And especially 230 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:20,750 Speaker 2: in the last few years, we would have seen a 231 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 2: lot of value has been lost. 232 00:12:22,690 --> 00:12:26,370 Speaker 2: So what's that Stephanie man? Are you going to completely 233 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: sort of say 100%? Here you go, Honey. There's all 234 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: the money. I trust you completely don't 235 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: ask me anything. Just give me the money at the 236 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: end of her life. 237 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: Exactly. So I think that's that's one part of that. 238 00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:42,980 Speaker 2: I would also say if let's say there was that 239 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:48,690 Speaker 2: small probability that for whatever reason the family falls apart, right? 240 00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:52,610 Speaker 2: Does the woman take unnecessary exposure to a lack of 241 00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:56,730 Speaker 2: financial planning? For example, if the marriage ends and the kids, 242 00:12:56,730 --> 00:12:59,229 Speaker 2: how do you deal with the finances as a woman? 243 00:12:59,230 --> 00:13:02,510 Speaker 2: If you're not involved in the financial, don't understand that. 244 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,150 Speaker 2: How do you plan? How do you move ahead independently? 245 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:08,090 Speaker 2: How do you make sure that your kids are taken 246 00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: care of? And how do you make sure that 247 00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:14,700 Speaker 2: You yourself is taken care of? Or if let's say 248 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: the husband takes the money and gambles it away or 249 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,990 Speaker 2: whatever that is, right? How do women respond to that? 250 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,620 Speaker 2: So I would say to be 100% oblivious is probably 251 00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:28,580 Speaker 2: not the right strategy, but just maybe to keep an 252 00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:30,300 Speaker 2: eye and make sure there's always some level 253 00:13:30,325 --> 00:13:34,415 Speaker 2: protection whether you squirrel it away somewhere in a sort 254 00:13:34,415 --> 00:13:36,545 Speaker 2: of safety net of sorts. And it can be as 255 00:13:36,545 --> 00:13:39,065 Speaker 2: simple as investing in a portfolio of reads right to 256 00:13:39,065 --> 00:13:41,495 Speaker 2: pay you a dividend. You should lock that capital way, 257 00:13:41,505 --> 00:13:44,205 Speaker 2: get some money or you could be looking at fixed 258 00:13:44,205 --> 00:13:46,895 Speaker 2: income products and just sort of put it in there 259 00:13:46,895 --> 00:13:49,545 Speaker 2: just so that you get some level of return above 260 00:13:49,545 --> 00:13:50,420 Speaker 2: fixed deposits. 261 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: It could be quite simple. So it's just about thinking, 262 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,510 Speaker 2: preempting planning, making sure you have the right protections in place. 263 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,170 Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that we shouldn't be oblivious because 264 00:14:03,179 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: what surprises me about some of the women I've spoken 265 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: to is that, I mean they know exactly how much 266 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,150 Speaker 1: money they spent for groceries, right? They know how much 267 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,349 Speaker 1: the diapers cost the rise, you know, every 10 cents increase, 268 00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:17,930 Speaker 1: They know, 269 00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:20,970 Speaker 1: but when it comes to investments and insurance and all 270 00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: these things, they let the husbands do it and they 271 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,660 Speaker 1: don't even know where these things are. They don't know 272 00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: what kind of insurance protection they have. And for me, 273 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,860 Speaker 1: I feel, I mean there's got to be a check 274 00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:36,050 Speaker 1: and balance right? Like every other institution out there. I 275 00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: think the least we should be doing is knowing where 276 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,260 Speaker 1: that is in the first place. Do you have any 277 00:14:42,270 --> 00:14:47,100 Speaker 1: instances or experience that you've seen women be really hurt 278 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:47,950 Speaker 1: by 279 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: being oblivious to where their money is. 280 00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:56,150 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't have specific cases, although there 281 00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: have been, as you would have read some high profile 282 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: cases of lawyers who basically ran away with a bunch 283 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,670 Speaker 2: of money and stuff left, you know their wives to 284 00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:05,690 Speaker 2: deal with all the 285 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: problems back home. But I worry very much where I 286 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: have friends or I see couples who break up right 287 00:15:15,530 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: And with all the wealth of all the men sort 288 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,090 Speaker 2: of control that 289 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: and sort of really worry about where does the woman 290 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,870 Speaker 2: even start to think about what's rightfully due to herself? 291 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: How does she protect the kids? I mean that that 292 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,690 Speaker 2: really is the first thing that comes to mind and 293 00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:37,820 Speaker 2: I worry about friends who are caught in those situations. 294 00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:42,220 Speaker 2: So if you haven't built that thinking by the time 295 00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:45,930 Speaker 2: that happens, it's way too late because you don't know 296 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: where the money has been moved or the assets, whose 297 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,910 Speaker 2: name is it in, where should it sit? It's something 298 00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:56,020 Speaker 2: that you cannot wait until the event happens and then say, oh, 299 00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: where is everything you can't go to think a bit 300 00:15:58,690 --> 00:16:03,850 Speaker 2: backwards and plan and be a bit more organized around that. 301 00:16:08,110 --> 00:16:08,580 Speaker 1: Hello 302 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:10,180 Speaker 2: everyone, my name is Christina 303 00:16:10,190 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Adrienne 304 00:16:11,010 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: and we're the host of a podcast called work 305 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,190 Speaker 1: it if you never heard of it. Well, it's a 306 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,410 Speaker 1: good time to tap in 307 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: In the last 20 episodes, we've discussed topics like how 308 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:20,830 Speaker 2: to negotiate for a salary 309 00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: increase or how to get along with younger colleagues who 310 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,450 Speaker 1: have different values from you, which 311 00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:28,130 Speaker 1: incidentally is our top performing episode 312 00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:30,900 Speaker 2: if what consumes your life and you want some perspective 313 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: on issues like management 314 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:33,220 Speaker 1: stress, even 315 00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:34,610 Speaker 2: office romance. This 316 00:16:34,610 --> 00:16:35,650 Speaker 1: podcast should 317 00:16:35,660 --> 00:16:38,910 Speaker 2: be on your list. A new episode drops every monday. 318 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,810 Speaker 1: Catch us on the Sienna app or wherever you get 319 00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: your podcast. 320 00:16:46,890 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: You talked about building knowledge and building confidence. That sounds 321 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: like you just got to try it, at least even 322 00:16:54,810 --> 00:17:00,020 Speaker 1: with small steps and with simple types of investments, you've 323 00:17:00,030 --> 00:17:03,390 Speaker 1: got to just dip your toes in there. That seems 324 00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:06,389 Speaker 1: to be the first steps. But how do you know 325 00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: that you're on the right track and are there certain 326 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,230 Speaker 1: goals that 327 00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:13,820 Speaker 1: you think we should be hitting along the way to 328 00:17:13,830 --> 00:17:17,470 Speaker 1: make sure we're not totally in the wrong place. 329 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:20,410 Speaker 1: I 330 00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:24,410 Speaker 2: Think learning getting confidence a lot of that, it's about 331 00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:27,540 Speaker 2: having some knowledge base, but then a little bit of 332 00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:31,350 Speaker 2: trial and error and I would say in the beginning 333 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,500 Speaker 2: diversification is a very useful tool because you're not going 334 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:39,869 Speaker 2: to get your first bet 100% correct, right. I mean, 335 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,669 Speaker 2: we'll hear these horror stories about 336 00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: investors who decided to put all their money in, for example, Cryptocurrency, 337 00:17:45,890 --> 00:17:48,970 Speaker 2: whatever those horror stories might be and you kind of 338 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:52,129 Speaker 2: know as a beginner or someone who's just starting out investing, 339 00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:55,810 Speaker 2: the idea is sort of diversification, invest in a number 340 00:17:55,810 --> 00:18:00,470 Speaker 2: of different products and then over time, 341 00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: understand what your own risk profile and what your own 342 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,770 Speaker 2: financial profile is a problem with investing? And that is 343 00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:11,060 Speaker 2: actually a very personal skill or a personal sort of 344 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: approach because everyone has a different financial lifecycle. 345 00:18:15,210 --> 00:18:17,340 Speaker 2: I have kids who are in the teens, you may 346 00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:19,470 Speaker 2: have kids who are very young. The way you think 347 00:18:19,470 --> 00:18:22,070 Speaker 2: about money and wealth and growth may be very different. 348 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: You will have a different risk aversion to myself, right. 349 00:18:26,050 --> 00:18:29,850 Speaker 2: Maybe it's because I understand products better and willing to 350 00:18:29,850 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: accept that risk. Whereas someone who's new in the investing 351 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: process may not. So 352 00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 2: it is after you've invested a number of things and 353 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,290 Speaker 2: you say, well, okay, I don't like the risk of 354 00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:45,169 Speaker 2: the equity markets. I prefer to keep it in fixed 355 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:49,409 Speaker 2: income and bonds and therefore, what are the investments within 356 00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:52,810 Speaker 2: that space that I'm more comfortable with or you could say, well, 357 00:18:52,810 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: I'm comfortable having a diversified portfolio and maybe I shift 358 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,510 Speaker 2: a little bit, depending on where I understand the trends 359 00:18:59,510 --> 00:19:02,379 Speaker 2: to be. But the only way to know that 360 00:19:02,619 --> 00:19:05,210 Speaker 2: Is you have to start, you can't have a theory 361 00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:07,690 Speaker 2: in your head, right? And you can't say I'm gonna 362 00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:11,380 Speaker 2: do 100% risky or 100% safe that that's not going 363 00:19:11,380 --> 00:19:15,090 Speaker 2: to achieve your goals. And after you do it, you 364 00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: also need to understand you are going to take some 365 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,970 Speaker 2: losses right, if I'm in a high risk hedge fund 366 00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:22,350 Speaker 2: that's volatile. 367 00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:25,629 Speaker 2: I am going to take a loss, How will I 368 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,910 Speaker 2: react to that loss? Do I lose confidence in the manager? 369 00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:33,060 Speaker 2: Is it the market? Am I willing to sit this out? 370 00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:36,510 Speaker 2: How do I react? And all these emotions are learned 371 00:19:36,510 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: along the way. You can't decide them. You can't frame 372 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:40,690 Speaker 2: them from day one. 373 00:19:40,890 --> 00:19:45,150 Speaker 2: So if there's any advice to women is to start early, 374 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,330 Speaker 2: don't wait until it's too late. I read quite a 375 00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:50,260 Speaker 2: lot around women who get a lot more confident when 376 00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:56,510 Speaker 2: they're older. But then you lose the opportunities costs over 377 00:19:56,510 --> 00:20:00,150 Speaker 2: that time. If you don't start earlier. So starting earlier, 378 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,109 Speaker 2: just experiment, it'll take a bit of his savings. Then 379 00:20:03,109 --> 00:20:05,750 Speaker 2: there's some investments which I call you don't lose sleep 380 00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: if you lose the money. So, for example, I have 381 00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:09,149 Speaker 2: in my head 382 00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:14,609 Speaker 2: A certain proportion of wealth that I am using to learn, 383 00:20:14,619 --> 00:20:17,740 Speaker 2: it could be obviously something a bit more speculative, it 384 00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 2: could be something a little bit more risky that I 385 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,489 Speaker 2: know that, you know, I may very well lose 100% 386 00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: of that. 387 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 2: But I want to learn. That's something that I think 388 00:20:27,369 --> 00:20:30,750 Speaker 2: everyone needs to have that capacity for. Because if not, 389 00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:33,670 Speaker 2: then you don't push your own boundaries of understanding where 390 00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:36,110 Speaker 2: your risk appetite might be 391 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,889 Speaker 1: before we let you going. Do you think women can 392 00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,020 Speaker 1: actually be good at investing? 393 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:46,109 Speaker 1: Despite what we've mentioned that sometimes it's not quite the 394 00:20:46,109 --> 00:20:47,780 Speaker 1: first thing that comes to mind or we might be 395 00:20:47,780 --> 00:20:52,540 Speaker 1: more nurturing, protective maybe when it comes to how we 396 00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:54,940 Speaker 1: manage our money. But can we be good at this 397 00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:55,090 Speaker 1: as 398 00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 2: well? There are actually a number of studies out there 399 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,190 Speaker 2: that suggests that women are better 400 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,770 Speaker 2: investors. Generally 401 00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:03,970 Speaker 1: better investors. 402 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:05,190 Speaker 2: Better investors. 403 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,230 Speaker 1: Okay, if 404 00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:10,379 Speaker 2: you like for like compare returns or women portfolio managers 405 00:21:10,380 --> 00:21:14,100 Speaker 2: versus men, portfolio managers were talking about professional fund managers. 406 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:17,670 Speaker 2: So there's nothing in the statistics to suggest that women 407 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 2: are worst investors. 408 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:22,290 Speaker 2: I think women just choose not to be investors. It's 409 00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:23,380 Speaker 2: not whether they're good or bad. 410 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:26,470 Speaker 1: Yeah. And we all have the same tools as men 411 00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:30,500 Speaker 1: really to build our knowledge and to build our confidence 412 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:35,490 Speaker 1: but so important to start small and practice investing. So 413 00:21:35,490 --> 00:21:36,380 Speaker 1: we do gain that 414 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: confidence. But most importantly, and I totally agree that we 415 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,780 Speaker 1: should not be oblivious to our investment and to where 416 00:21:45,790 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: our money is. So thanks so much for your insights today. 417 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,590 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Thanks 418 00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:52,980 Speaker 2: Sarah. Great to be with 419 00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: you. 420 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed money talks do follow 421 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,780 Speaker 1: us on Spotify or Apple podcasts if you like this episode, 422 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:06,730 Speaker 1: do rate us or better still leave us a review 423 00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:09,810 Speaker 1: if you have a topic you're interested to hear about 424 00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:13,010 Speaker 1: or have feedback write to us at C. N. A 425 00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:17,070 Speaker 1: podcasts at mediacorp dot com dot S G. The team 426 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:21,540 Speaker 1: behind money talks is Joanne chan Jacqueline chan and Christina robert. 427 00:22:21,550 --> 00:22:24,379 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah called Eve thanks so much for listening.