1 00:00:03,039 --> 00:00:05,380 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:08,390 --> 00:00:10,369 Speaker 1: I would dare say if you do a straw poll, 3 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:13,379 Speaker 1: many young working adults would typically put family planning as 4 00:00:13,390 --> 00:00:16,110 Speaker 1: a soon to be adventure to embark on to rather 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:17,270 Speaker 1: than a priority for them. 6 00:00:17,299 --> 00:00:20,469 Speaker 2: Where's the balance? How far should an organization go in 7 00:00:20,479 --> 00:00:23,779 Speaker 2: order to give leave and to support the employees 8 00:00:23,965 --> 00:00:27,235 Speaker 2: for their family raising responsibilities? There will be some dads 9 00:00:27,245 --> 00:00:29,405 Speaker 2: who would be a bit concerned if they are going 10 00:00:29,415 --> 00:00:31,655 Speaker 2: to have a longer paternity leave. It may not be 11 00:00:31,665 --> 00:00:33,564 Speaker 2: so beneficial for them because they will be worried that 12 00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:35,935 Speaker 2: they will be taken out from some of these choice 13 00:00:35,944 --> 00:00:38,014 Speaker 2: assignments or they will be put on the back foot 14 00:00:38,025 --> 00:00:39,194 Speaker 2: for career progression. 15 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:44,689 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the work at podcast with Tiffany and Gerald. 16 00:00:44,779 --> 00:00:47,619 Speaker 2: We hope you're making this podcast part of your weekly habit. 17 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:51,259 Speaker 2: If you're on the train, bus, car or exercising, even 18 00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:54,189 Speaker 2: going out running your errands, we hope you leave this 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: podcast after about 30 minutes feeling smarter and more energized. 20 00:00:59,529 --> 00:01:01,340 Speaker 2: And if you are new here, we also want to 21 00:01:01,349 --> 00:01:04,059 Speaker 2: give you a big shout out. Welcome to our show. Welcome. 22 00:01:04,069 --> 00:01:07,569 Speaker 2: Subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcast or youtube. 23 00:01:07,703 --> 00:01:09,763 Speaker 2: So that you get a new alert every time an 24 00:01:09,773 --> 00:01:13,013 Speaker 2: episode drops, there's a ask me anything segment right at 25 00:01:13,023 --> 00:01:15,623 Speaker 2: the end. So you have to stay tuned. So, Tiffany, 26 00:01:15,633 --> 00:01:18,843 Speaker 2: what's the hot question that we need to tackle today? 27 00:01:18,852 --> 00:01:21,461 Speaker 2: They are very hot. Indeed. This was sent in by 28 00:01:21,472 --> 00:01:24,343 Speaker 2: our listener who wants to be known as Kay. So 29 00:01:24,352 --> 00:01:27,722 Speaker 2: Kay got an average grade for his performance review and 30 00:01:27,733 --> 00:01:30,123 Speaker 2: when he approached his manager to ask for more tasks 31 00:01:30,133 --> 00:01:32,482 Speaker 2: so he can work towards a better grade. He was 32 00:01:32,492 --> 00:01:34,202 Speaker 2: told to go look into the 33 00:01:34,286 --> 00:01:37,746 Speaker 2: backlog instead. Yeah. So Kay wants to know what should 34 00:01:37,755 --> 00:01:40,085 Speaker 2: he do? Ok. Ok. You know what? It sounds like 35 00:01:40,096 --> 00:01:42,115 Speaker 2: a difficult situation. I will be sure to give you 36 00:01:42,125 --> 00:01:45,434 Speaker 2: some advice. So stay tuned to the end of the discussion. 37 00:01:45,545 --> 00:01:47,846 Speaker 2: But before that today, we have something really important to 38 00:01:47,856 --> 00:01:51,466 Speaker 2: talk about, right? And this is about parental benefits. Tiffany, 39 00:01:51,475 --> 00:01:54,305 Speaker 2: you have two young Children. Yes. So they are unlikely 40 00:01:54,316 --> 00:01:56,555 Speaker 2: to be listening to this because they are only five 41 00:01:56,566 --> 00:01:58,505 Speaker 2: and two. You never know they could be listening to 42 00:01:58,515 --> 00:02:00,725 Speaker 2: this in the car. Oh, that's mommy's voice. 43 00:02:01,739 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. So juggling both work and two young Children must 44 00:02:04,010 --> 00:02:05,879 Speaker 2: be very tiring. It is right. If you had to 45 00:02:05,889 --> 00:02:09,889 Speaker 2: choose what is one parental benefit that your workplace here 46 00:02:09,899 --> 00:02:13,300 Speaker 2: in Media Corp has offered you that you cannot live without. Ok, 47 00:02:13,309 --> 00:02:18,130 Speaker 2: I cannot live without the six paid days of childcare leave. 48 00:02:18,199 --> 00:02:21,258 Speaker 2: So my company gives me this six paid days regardless 49 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 2: of how many Children I have. So obviously, I would 50 00:02:23,410 --> 00:02:25,190 Speaker 2: have liked that if I got 12 days because now 51 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:27,830 Speaker 2: I have two kids. Right? But ok, six days. Good. 52 00:02:27,839 --> 00:02:29,850 Speaker 2: I don't mind. And if this gets taken 53 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: away from me, I am definitely quitting. Ok, putting hr 54 00:02:33,449 --> 00:02:37,130 Speaker 2: on notice first because my kids are constantly sick. They 55 00:02:37,139 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: bring back germs from their preschool. They are literally, I 56 00:02:40,169 --> 00:02:43,820 Speaker 2: call them germ bags. So if I'm not given extra 57 00:02:43,830 --> 00:02:46,029 Speaker 2: days to care for them, I might be actually hated 58 00:02:46,038 --> 00:02:49,589 Speaker 2: for a divorce. In fact, sometimes I take annual leave 59 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,309 Speaker 2: days because their school on top of that is closed 60 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,109 Speaker 2: for cleaning, teacher training days. I don't know. There's so 61 00:02:56,119 --> 00:02:58,270 Speaker 2: many other things and my husband and I will always 62 00:02:58,380 --> 00:03:00,589 Speaker 2: do. They conflict our schedules. Yeah. So when you told 63 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,479 Speaker 2: me six days, right? I thought like, wow, that's pretty little. 64 00:03:03,490 --> 00:03:05,300 Speaker 2: And I thought that wouldn't it be good if we 65 00:03:05,309 --> 00:03:08,059 Speaker 2: have more days? So I think today's topic really about 66 00:03:08,070 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: parental benefits is something we want to go further into. 67 00:03:10,699 --> 00:03:14,050 Speaker 2: There's lots of exhausted parents, right. Like you who's really 68 00:03:14,059 --> 00:03:16,779 Speaker 2: trying to juggle everything worse? Let's keep it together. Yeah. 69 00:03:16,788 --> 00:03:19,288 Speaker 2: And making sure that the kids don't fall sick and 70 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:21,869 Speaker 2: it's really something of a national conversation, right? Because we 71 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,758 Speaker 2: do have our fertility rate that's dropping. So I can 72 00:03:24,770 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: imagine the younger couples are wondering 73 00:03:26,830 --> 00:03:29,580 Speaker 2: how do I balance everything together? So today we want 74 00:03:29,589 --> 00:03:31,770 Speaker 2: to get into the weeds of this. How can companies 75 00:03:31,779 --> 00:03:35,770 Speaker 2: better support parents without drastically affecting their output? All right, 76 00:03:35,779 --> 00:03:37,929 Speaker 2: there has to be some balance somewhere with us today 77 00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:40,919 Speaker 2: to talk about. This is Derek Te CEO of human 78 00:03:40,929 --> 00:03:44,190 Speaker 2: resource firm, elites Group and senior professional at the Institute 79 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: for Human Resources Professional. Welcome, Derek. Hello. 80 00:03:47,009 --> 00:03:48,490 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. Nice to be here. 81 00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:48,740 Speaker 2: So 82 00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:50,940 Speaker 2: Derek, you are also a parent. You have a nine 83 00:03:50,949 --> 00:03:52,869 Speaker 2: year old kid and then you have your own business 84 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,169 Speaker 2: as well. So what was the hardest thing in 85 00:03:55,279 --> 00:03:59,020 Speaker 2: your experience about juggling both building your own business and 86 00:03:59,029 --> 00:04:01,259 Speaker 2: also having a kid must be super tiring. 87 00:04:01,369 --> 00:04:04,470 Speaker 1: Well, I guess on hindsight, it is a very enjoyable journey. 88 00:04:04,669 --> 00:04:07,300 Speaker 1: But if I were to recall when my kid was 89 00:04:07,309 --> 00:04:10,309 Speaker 1: a toddler, definitely there were a lot of challenges that 90 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: we had to go through and I think primarily the 91 00:04:12,729 --> 00:04:15,229 Speaker 1: toughest duration is in the 1st 12 to 18 months 92 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: of when the kid is born, there are going to 93 00:04:17,609 --> 00:04:18,928 Speaker 1: be a lot of commitments. There are a lot of 94 00:04:18,940 --> 00:04:21,380 Speaker 1: curveballs and I think as a parent that is always 95 00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: going to be the priority for many of us out 96 00:04:23,290 --> 00:04:23,540 Speaker 1: there 97 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:26,950 Speaker 2: just now. You heard Tiffany talk about the six days, 98 00:04:26,959 --> 00:04:30,399 Speaker 2: in your opinion, do you think six days is just nice, 99 00:04:30,410 --> 00:04:32,868 Speaker 2: too short or too long? So we were saying six 100 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,829 Speaker 2: days is if your youngest kid is under six. And 101 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: after that, if your youngest kid is under 12, you 102 00:04:38,609 --> 00:04:40,890 Speaker 2: get two days. And then after that, basically as they 103 00:04:40,899 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 2: get older, you don't have those extra childcare leave for you. 104 00:04:43,290 --> 00:04:45,690 Speaker 2: You were taking care of your kid before six years old. 105 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:46,109 Speaker 2: Did you use 106 00:04:46,213 --> 00:04:46,993 Speaker 2: six days? Yes, 107 00:04:47,002 --> 00:04:47,113 Speaker 1: of 108 00:04:47,122 --> 00:04:48,863 Speaker 1: course. So even though I run my own business, we 109 00:04:48,872 --> 00:04:51,342 Speaker 1: still go by employment concept and we still have to 110 00:04:51,351 --> 00:04:53,863 Speaker 1: do our own leave clearances. If we were to look 111 00:04:53,872 --> 00:04:56,072 Speaker 1: at it in a grand scheme of things, it's hard 112 00:04:56,083 --> 00:04:59,183 Speaker 1: to pinpoint whether it's six days enough. If speaking from 113 00:04:59,192 --> 00:05:03,493 Speaker 1: a parent's perspective, naturally, the more the merrier. But then again, 114 00:05:03,502 --> 00:05:06,192 Speaker 1: we have to take into consideration about what the job 115 00:05:06,202 --> 00:05:08,001 Speaker 1: entails and what the expectations are 116 00:05:08,096 --> 00:05:11,096 Speaker 1: from the employer. And of course, what kind of support 117 00:05:11,105 --> 00:05:14,795 Speaker 1: that the government policies are rendering to companies out there. 118 00:05:15,325 --> 00:05:17,716 Speaker 2: So what are the kind of parental benefits they would 119 00:05:17,726 --> 00:05:18,235 Speaker 2: like more 120 00:05:18,246 --> 00:05:18,635 Speaker 2: of 121 00:05:18,645 --> 00:05:21,485 Speaker 1: generally, there are statutory benefits which I guess most of 122 00:05:21,496 --> 00:05:24,415 Speaker 1: the listeners are very familiar with can be about the 123 00:05:24,425 --> 00:05:27,936 Speaker 1: maternity or paternity leave and also the childcare leave, which 124 00:05:27,946 --> 00:05:29,835 Speaker 1: is what we speak about the six days a year. 125 00:05:30,130 --> 00:05:33,450 Speaker 1: But beyond that, some companies, they may have other benefits. 126 00:05:33,459 --> 00:05:36,299 Speaker 1: For example, such as Family Day, they also have a 127 00:05:36,309 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: study leave just in case if your kids are going 128 00:05:38,369 --> 00:05:40,510 Speaker 1: through major exams, you are able to take a few 129 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:42,869 Speaker 1: extra days off that year. So that you are able 130 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,519 Speaker 1: to accommodate for the study schedules. There are also some 131 00:05:46,529 --> 00:05:51,059 Speaker 1: companies that naturally with the advent of flexible arrangement, they 132 00:05:51,070 --> 00:05:52,790 Speaker 1: do allow their employees to 133 00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:55,690 Speaker 1: work from home on certain days or even on a 134 00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:58,309 Speaker 1: remote basis. So I guess these are the plethora of 135 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,989 Speaker 1: benefits out there. But among some which I heard are 136 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,630 Speaker 1: more strategic, would be the flexibility to allow a parent 137 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,709 Speaker 1: to take sabbatical assuming they have consumed their leave, right? 138 00:06:07,928 --> 00:06:11,089 Speaker 1: So the parent can take a sabbatical on key important years, 139 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:11,910 Speaker 1: like maybe primary 140 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,179 Speaker 2: four, primary six 141 00:06:13,209 --> 00:06:15,549 Speaker 2: psle year, then the parents can take the time off. 142 00:06:15,859 --> 00:06:18,390 Speaker 2: Yeah, your contract don't have this, you don't have this extra. 143 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:21,130 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the contract doesn't have it because we 144 00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:23,829 Speaker 2: were just looking at it with the non-compete clause thing 145 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: during a noncom clause episode. But I think in this company, 146 00:06:28,209 --> 00:06:30,380 Speaker 2: you can ask, you can say, could I take a 147 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:32,549 Speaker 2: sabbatical for a short period of time? I mean, I 148 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,790 Speaker 2: know some people have taken sabbatical to go and study. 149 00:06:35,019 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility to 150 00:06:37,329 --> 00:06:38,299 Speaker 2: ask also if could 151 00:06:38,410 --> 00:06:40,849 Speaker 2: I take a sabbatical? Maybe because I'm struggling with an 152 00:06:40,859 --> 00:06:43,070 Speaker 2: aspect of child care. It could be like you say 153 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:45,450 Speaker 2: the PSLE or it could be because my child has 154 00:06:45,459 --> 00:06:47,390 Speaker 2: fallen sick and everything. I think it depends. It's a 155 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,089 Speaker 2: case by case basis. But we want to get into 156 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:53,269 Speaker 2: this idea of why is there a growing national conversation 157 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: on more parental benefit. So in budget 2023 then Deputy 158 00:06:57,928 --> 00:07:01,029 Speaker 2: Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, who is now, our Prime Minister 159 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,339 Speaker 2: announced that government paid paternity leave will be doubled from 160 00:07:05,350 --> 00:07:09,579 Speaker 2: 2 to 4 weeks. It's not mandatory yet. But our 161 00:07:09,589 --> 00:07:13,059 Speaker 2: total fertility rate has also dropped to a historic low 162 00:07:13,070 --> 00:07:14,899 Speaker 2: of 0.97 163 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: will increasing benefits ever move the needle. 164 00:07:18,049 --> 00:07:21,399 Speaker 1: I guess the reason why TFR drops may not necessarily 165 00:07:21,410 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: just be policy driven. And if you were to backtrack 166 00:07:24,329 --> 00:07:25,790 Speaker 1: in the last few years, I think there was a 167 00:07:25,799 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: slight bump in 2021 and 2022. I think 168 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,390 Speaker 2: COVID, right? Because everybody has nothing to do. 169 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:31,899 Speaker 2: I mean 170 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:34,570 Speaker 1: they were at home most of the time. Yeah. So 171 00:07:34,579 --> 00:07:36,910 Speaker 1: then again, we have to be cognizant that Singapore is 172 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: not the only country facing this TFR and decline prominently. 173 00:07:40,929 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: Countries like Japan, Korea cities like Hong, 174 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:47,179 Speaker 1: they are facing the same situations as well. So I 175 00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:50,019 Speaker 1: guess on the top of many parents mind may not 176 00:07:50,029 --> 00:07:52,989 Speaker 1: necessarily just be about the leave and the benefits. I 177 00:07:53,049 --> 00:07:55,230 Speaker 1: think we have to also be aware that raising a 178 00:07:55,239 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: child is a complex process. It's a multiyear process as well. 179 00:07:58,649 --> 00:08:01,559 Speaker 1: But if you compare it with stabilizing and building an 180 00:08:01,570 --> 00:08:05,019 Speaker 1: individual's career, then this two tends to go at logger 181 00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: heads from time to time. So it also accounts for 182 00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:10,390 Speaker 1: the fact that sometimes there are sacrifices that either parent 183 00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:12,910 Speaker 1: or even both parent, we have to set aside 184 00:08:13,019 --> 00:08:15,059 Speaker 1: so that they are able to either accommodate for the 185 00:08:15,070 --> 00:08:18,049 Speaker 1: family needs or even to focus on career. 186 00:08:18,239 --> 00:08:21,119 Speaker 2: A lot of people that I've spoken to, often they 187 00:08:21,130 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: talk to me about their careers. Right. Usually family is 188 00:08:24,049 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why they are starting to really 189 00:08:26,489 --> 00:08:30,049 Speaker 2: think whether what they are doing is still suitable for them. Right. 190 00:08:30,059 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 2: When you are younger, you don't have much commitments, right? 191 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:34,289 Speaker 2: The way you view work and the way you work 192 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:37,130 Speaker 2: was also different as compared to when you have kids 193 00:08:37,289 --> 00:08:39,219 Speaker 2: and when the kids fall ill and then there's all 194 00:08:39,229 --> 00:08:41,869 Speaker 2: this guilt, there's all these responsibilities that come on. 195 00:08:42,109 --> 00:08:45,369 Speaker 2: But also maybe speaking from an employer perspective, right? Just 196 00:08:45,379 --> 00:08:47,499 Speaker 2: listening to Derek share all these different kind of leaves. 197 00:08:47,508 --> 00:08:50,257 Speaker 2: And I felt like it's pretty generous, it's pretty generous. 198 00:08:50,388 --> 00:08:52,059 Speaker 2: And for me, if I were to wear the head 199 00:08:52,068 --> 00:08:55,169 Speaker 2: of the organization, right, where's the balance? How far should 200 00:08:55,179 --> 00:08:58,888 Speaker 2: an organization go in order to give leave and to 201 00:08:58,898 --> 00:09:02,249 Speaker 2: support the employees for their family, raising responsibilities? So I 202 00:09:02,258 --> 00:09:04,109 Speaker 2: was talking to a friend of mine and she raised 203 00:09:04,119 --> 00:09:06,208 Speaker 2: her child the first year in Germany 204 00:09:06,479 --> 00:09:09,179 Speaker 2: and she had the whole year off to take care 205 00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: of her child. Like that was her maternity leave. And 206 00:09:11,969 --> 00:09:14,659 Speaker 2: she said it was very helpful. In fact, when she 207 00:09:14,669 --> 00:09:16,619 Speaker 2: went back to the workforce, she went back with like 208 00:09:16,630 --> 00:09:18,859 Speaker 2: full force and she was in a much better place. 209 00:09:18,869 --> 00:09:20,699 Speaker 2: She felt that she had spent a good one year 210 00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:23,728 Speaker 2: with her child. So can we actually move in that 211 00:09:23,739 --> 00:09:28,109 Speaker 2: direction where a longer parental leave would actually make a 212 00:09:28,119 --> 00:09:30,979 Speaker 2: difference to how parents can just focus and perform at 213 00:09:30,989 --> 00:09:31,699 Speaker 2: the workplace? 214 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:33,979 Speaker 1: I guess we have to take into context about the 215 00:09:33,989 --> 00:09:35,380 Speaker 1: culture of how our 216 00:09:35,492 --> 00:09:38,682 Speaker 1: so society is formed up naturally. It will be easy 217 00:09:38,692 --> 00:09:42,670 Speaker 1: for many working adults to do a contrasting comparison with 218 00:09:42,682 --> 00:09:45,932 Speaker 1: some European countries. Germany is one. I think the Scandinavian 219 00:09:45,942 --> 00:09:48,530 Speaker 1: countries are another lot as well that they are known 220 00:09:48,541 --> 00:09:51,841 Speaker 1: to give very generous parental leave. But at the same time, 221 00:09:51,851 --> 00:09:55,992 Speaker 1: it also boils down to the average practicing culture of 222 00:09:56,002 --> 00:09:59,601 Speaker 1: many organizations operating in Singapore as to whether are there 223 00:09:59,611 --> 00:10:04,401 Speaker 1: sufficient management willpower and policies that the company set aside 224 00:10:04,903 --> 00:10:07,934 Speaker 1: and perhaps one other area to also be concerned about 225 00:10:07,973 --> 00:10:11,513 Speaker 1: is that every employee would naturally have the thought process 226 00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:14,143 Speaker 1: in their mind about what are the signaling that they 227 00:10:14,153 --> 00:10:17,583 Speaker 1: are sending towards their employer? Like, am I hoping to 228 00:10:17,593 --> 00:10:20,323 Speaker 1: push for promotion this year or am I hoping to 229 00:10:20,494 --> 00:10:23,044 Speaker 1: showcase to my management that hey, please pick me for 230 00:10:23,054 --> 00:10:26,004 Speaker 1: special projects and by definition of trying to do that 231 00:10:26,013 --> 00:10:28,744 Speaker 1: signaling that usually they have to show about how they 232 00:10:28,754 --> 00:10:30,403 Speaker 1: are able to deliver on their KP. And 233 00:10:30,513 --> 00:10:33,093 Speaker 2: this has a lot to do with the amount of 234 00:10:33,515 --> 00:10:35,155 Speaker 2: possibilities, parental leave that you utilize. 235 00:10:35,166 --> 00:10:35,556 Speaker 1: If 236 00:10:35,565 --> 00:10:37,655 Speaker 1: I were to put myself as a young working adult 237 00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:40,295 Speaker 1: about to start a family. Typically, many of us would 238 00:10:40,306 --> 00:10:42,445 Speaker 1: also want to have our cake and eat it. We 239 00:10:42,455 --> 00:10:44,096 Speaker 1: would want to start a family. But yet at the 240 00:10:44,106 --> 00:10:45,955 Speaker 1: same time, we would also want to make sure that 241 00:10:45,966 --> 00:10:48,745 Speaker 1: we stabilize and progress in our career. So I guess 242 00:10:48,755 --> 00:10:52,286 Speaker 1: at this junction, many a time, we would typically look 243 00:10:52,296 --> 00:10:55,435 Speaker 1: at the financial side of things. Let's face it. In Singapore. 244 00:10:55,445 --> 00:10:57,555 Speaker 1: We are not a low cost city. I would dare 245 00:10:57,565 --> 00:10:59,875 Speaker 1: say if you do a straw poll, many young working 246 00:10:59,885 --> 00:11:02,426 Speaker 1: adults would typically put family planning as a 247 00:11:02,528 --> 00:11:05,218 Speaker 1: soon to be adventure to embark on to rather than 248 00:11:05,227 --> 00:11:07,588 Speaker 1: a priority for them. Yes, they would always think of 249 00:11:07,598 --> 00:11:10,506 Speaker 1: how to hit a certain income level first and thereafter 250 00:11:10,518 --> 00:11:12,807 Speaker 1: with that latitude of financial freedom, 251 00:11:12,817 --> 00:11:13,367 Speaker 2: freedom 252 00:11:13,867 --> 00:11:14,458 Speaker 1: and then they 253 00:11:14,468 --> 00:11:15,208 Speaker 1: can make a decision 254 00:11:15,427 --> 00:11:18,437 Speaker 2: the family, yeah, having a family. Ok. So picking up 255 00:11:18,447 --> 00:11:20,267 Speaker 2: on this point, right, I know that there will be 256 00:11:20,278 --> 00:11:22,727 Speaker 2: some dads who would be a bit concerned as well. 257 00:11:22,737 --> 00:11:26,098 Speaker 2: Like even if you give me more paternity leave, I mean, 258 00:11:26,107 --> 00:11:27,857 Speaker 2: and this is something that we discussed before in one 259 00:11:27,867 --> 00:11:30,257 Speaker 2: of our a ma with Jal already for months, we 260 00:11:30,268 --> 00:11:31,427 Speaker 2: already know that when we are coming back 261 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:34,059 Speaker 2: from maternity leave, we are away from the workforce for 262 00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:35,900 Speaker 2: four months. We know that this is not going to 263 00:11:35,909 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: be a promotion year, but then there are also other 264 00:11:37,969 --> 00:11:40,059 Speaker 2: factors like do we really want a promotion. But I 265 00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: think it's a bit harder for debts, I feel because 266 00:11:43,090 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: especially in a very Asian context, I think there is 267 00:11:46,409 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 2: this mindset still that debts should be the ones who 268 00:11:49,570 --> 00:11:52,450 Speaker 2: put the food on the table, bring the biggest paycheck 269 00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:55,159 Speaker 2: in some families. They still have this very traditional mindset. 270 00:11:55,169 --> 00:11:57,020 Speaker 2: So for that, it is like if they are going 271 00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:59,250 Speaker 2: to have a longer paternity leave, it may not be 272 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:00,468 Speaker 2: so beneficial for them because they 273 00:12:00,552 --> 00:12:02,882 Speaker 2: be worried that they will be taken out from some 274 00:12:02,892 --> 00:12:05,052 Speaker 2: of these choice assignments or they will be put on 275 00:12:05,062 --> 00:12:07,742 Speaker 2: the back foot for career progression. I mean, these are 276 00:12:07,752 --> 00:12:10,611 Speaker 2: real problems or real concerns that they would have. Right? 277 00:12:10,622 --> 00:12:13,030 Speaker 1: I do beg to differ that there may be a 278 00:12:13,041 --> 00:12:15,511 Speaker 1: gender difference in this. Perhaps I can use my own 279 00:12:15,521 --> 00:12:20,530 Speaker 1: experience in running my company where my hr manager, she 280 00:12:20,541 --> 00:12:22,211 Speaker 1: had worked for us for her first job till now. 281 00:12:22,221 --> 00:12:24,460 Speaker 1: And next year she will be turning her 10th year 282 00:12:24,471 --> 00:12:28,210 Speaker 1: anniversary with us through her stint with our organization. She 283 00:12:28,221 --> 00:12:29,452 Speaker 1: had got married and 284 00:12:29,564 --> 00:12:32,554 Speaker 1: she had actually had three kids. Yes. And yet at 285 00:12:32,564 --> 00:12:35,133 Speaker 1: the same time, her career trajectory is still I would 286 00:12:35,143 --> 00:12:36,083 Speaker 1: say pretty on track. So 287 00:12:36,093 --> 00:12:36,463 Speaker 2: she took 288 00:12:36,473 --> 00:12:39,624 Speaker 2: her full maternity leave. Nobody touched her during her maternity 289 00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:39,943 Speaker 2: leave 290 00:12:39,953 --> 00:12:42,544 Speaker 1: now. So this is where I think for this colleague 291 00:12:42,554 --> 00:12:45,703 Speaker 1: of mine, she's very forward thinking for her first child. 292 00:12:45,713 --> 00:12:48,733 Speaker 1: I recall she took her full maternity leave. But for 293 00:12:48,744 --> 00:12:52,583 Speaker 1: her second child, she actually broken down into a few 294 00:12:52,593 --> 00:12:55,833 Speaker 1: different leave schedules so that she is able to both 295 00:12:55,843 --> 00:12:58,463 Speaker 1: bounce in and out of family commitments and work commitments 296 00:12:58,575 --> 00:13:00,875 Speaker 1: at the same time. So I guess it's more of 297 00:13:00,885 --> 00:13:03,705 Speaker 1: the artful balance between what is demanded at the workplace, 298 00:13:03,716 --> 00:13:08,315 Speaker 1: plus what is demanded at home. And I recall one season, ok, 299 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:11,715 Speaker 1: where she raised to us, a concern about actually having 300 00:13:11,726 --> 00:13:15,155 Speaker 1: to send a kid to childcare and having various costs 301 00:13:15,166 --> 00:13:18,075 Speaker 1: being popped up as a family group. And as a company, 302 00:13:18,085 --> 00:13:20,716 Speaker 1: what we did was we actually took into context that 303 00:13:20,726 --> 00:13:23,944 Speaker 1: she's a progressive and valuable member of our organization, we 304 00:13:23,955 --> 00:13:27,505 Speaker 1: rendered certain form of support and additional subsidy towards this aspect. 305 00:13:27,729 --> 00:13:30,988 Speaker 1: So naturally, this allows her to further reinvest the commitment 306 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,260 Speaker 1: back with the company. Now by this approach, then if 307 00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:37,739 Speaker 1: you were to look at the gentleman's, right. So most guys, 308 00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:40,239 Speaker 1: they are also very familiar with the annual commitment of 309 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:43,109 Speaker 1: going for National Free Service. Yes. And I do not 310 00:13:43,119 --> 00:13:46,210 Speaker 1: necessarily feel that when it comes to building up a family, 311 00:13:46,219 --> 00:13:49,469 Speaker 1: they will be at a significant disadvantage compared to another 312 00:13:49,479 --> 00:13:50,939 Speaker 1: individual who is not 313 00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:52,170 Speaker 1: having young Children. 314 00:13:52,182 --> 00:13:54,051 Speaker 2: But then the thing with reservist is that you can't 315 00:13:54,062 --> 00:13:56,072 Speaker 2: tell a person who has been served. The latter is 316 00:13:56,081 --> 00:13:57,682 Speaker 2: a choice, right? You just have to do it for 317 00:13:57,692 --> 00:14:00,311 Speaker 2: all Singaporean men. It's understood that you have to go 318 00:14:00,322 --> 00:14:03,702 Speaker 2: for reservist. So your boss somehow has that mindset that ok, 319 00:14:03,711 --> 00:14:06,502 Speaker 2: never mind, I'm gonna lose this person for two weeks, 320 00:14:06,651 --> 00:14:09,372 Speaker 2: but it's ok. We will have replacement or we will 321 00:14:09,381 --> 00:14:11,742 Speaker 2: have certain things that will kick in hr will have 322 00:14:11,752 --> 00:14:14,252 Speaker 2: these sort of support systems, but not every 323 00:14:14,513 --> 00:14:17,463 Speaker 2: in the workplace will go through this same stage of life. 324 00:14:17,653 --> 00:14:20,684 Speaker 2: So my parents themselves will feel like, oh, compared to 325 00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:23,674 Speaker 2: somebody who is single or compared to maybe a peer 326 00:14:23,684 --> 00:14:26,304 Speaker 2: who has had a kid earlier than I did. And 327 00:14:26,314 --> 00:14:27,893 Speaker 2: then now we are both at the same stage of 328 00:14:27,903 --> 00:14:30,604 Speaker 2: our career. We are both trying to fight for that promotion. 329 00:14:30,614 --> 00:14:33,614 Speaker 2: Then won't I be at a disadvantage? It reminds me 330 00:14:33,624 --> 00:14:35,874 Speaker 2: of the point of that's what you're talking about signaling, right? 331 00:14:36,104 --> 00:14:37,554 Speaker 2: So like if an individual use, 332 00:14:37,635 --> 00:14:40,726 Speaker 2: because a lot of parental benefits or takes a long 333 00:14:40,736 --> 00:14:43,966 Speaker 2: maternity or paternity leave, then how would they be viewed 334 00:14:43,976 --> 00:14:46,625 Speaker 2: by management? Would it affect their career progression? 335 00:14:46,926 --> 00:14:49,736 Speaker 1: Well, I guess that I do have some good levels 336 00:14:49,745 --> 00:14:52,856 Speaker 1: of confidence in most management of companies out there that 337 00:14:52,866 --> 00:14:55,356 Speaker 1: they acknowledge that this is part of the deal. When 338 00:14:55,366 --> 00:14:58,435 Speaker 1: we employ anyone that naturally, as the person stays on 339 00:14:58,445 --> 00:15:00,255 Speaker 1: with the company, they may enter into a different phase 340 00:15:00,265 --> 00:15:00,815 Speaker 1: of life. 341 00:15:01,099 --> 00:15:02,750 Speaker 1: There will be other phases of life that they enter 342 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,909 Speaker 1: into where they have elderly parents, they have other commitments 343 00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:08,419 Speaker 1: that come their way. I would say most companies worth 344 00:15:08,429 --> 00:15:10,989 Speaker 1: their salt, they would already be preparing or they already 345 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: had prepared. Perhaps also concepts like job redesign about how 346 00:15:14,650 --> 00:15:17,570 Speaker 1: they are able to support parents or caregivers, they are 347 00:15:17,580 --> 00:15:20,049 Speaker 1: able to support them through this process. But yet at 348 00:15:20,059 --> 00:15:22,609 Speaker 1: the same time for them to continue meeting their work 349 00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:23,109 Speaker 1: related K 350 00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:25,799 Speaker 2: P I actually spoke to a manager and this manager 351 00:15:25,809 --> 00:15:27,119 Speaker 2: told me that it was so hard for 352 00:15:27,195 --> 00:15:29,294 Speaker 2: her because her kids are older. But then all of 353 00:15:29,304 --> 00:15:31,294 Speaker 2: a sudden she realized that her team were filled with 354 00:15:31,304 --> 00:15:34,174 Speaker 2: parents with young kids. So everybody was just taking time 355 00:15:34,184 --> 00:15:35,875 Speaker 2: off and she was understanding. But at the end of 356 00:15:35,885 --> 00:15:38,534 Speaker 2: the day, she had to take on the workload because 357 00:15:38,544 --> 00:15:41,044 Speaker 2: everybody was just going off to take their childcare leave. 358 00:15:41,054 --> 00:15:43,174 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a very real scenario, right. 359 00:15:43,184 --> 00:15:45,145 Speaker 1: Yes, naturally, I fully agree with you and I've seen 360 00:15:45,155 --> 00:15:48,445 Speaker 1: this happen in my client's companies as well where there 361 00:15:48,455 --> 00:15:51,195 Speaker 1: are many concurrent members at the same stage of life, 362 00:15:51,205 --> 00:15:53,174 Speaker 1: having Children of a similar age group. 363 00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:55,679 Speaker 1: Then I would say that the team leader have to 364 00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:58,270 Speaker 1: be cognizant have to be aware and forecast some of 365 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,330 Speaker 1: these challenges and perhaps call on more resources with the 366 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:04,340 Speaker 1: management to support this team at least at a short 367 00:16:04,349 --> 00:16:05,109 Speaker 1: period of time. 368 00:16:05,469 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: So that for whatever reasons that each different member has 369 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: to take their leave or have to take care of 370 00:16:10,330 --> 00:16:13,539 Speaker 1: the family, then there's still resources available for the team 371 00:16:13,549 --> 00:16:15,359 Speaker 1: to achieve their intended output. Yeah, 372 00:16:15,369 --> 00:16:17,109 Speaker 2: so I can tell you what this manager told me, 373 00:16:17,119 --> 00:16:19,219 Speaker 2: whether jokingly or not, I'm not actually sure. So this 374 00:16:19,229 --> 00:16:21,739 Speaker 2: manager actually said that, ok, I know that hr is 375 00:16:21,750 --> 00:16:24,650 Speaker 2: not going to increase my manpower. So what I'm gonna 376 00:16:24,659 --> 00:16:26,719 Speaker 2: do is the next time I get to hire, I'm 377 00:16:26,729 --> 00:16:30,190 Speaker 2: gonna hire somebody who doesn't have Children. So that was 378 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,890 Speaker 2: actually a solution. But 379 00:16:32,109 --> 00:16:34,169 Speaker 2: I guess what she's trying to say is that now 380 00:16:34,179 --> 00:16:37,530 Speaker 2: she is even more clear. She wants diversity in the team. Basically, 381 00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:40,530 Speaker 2: I can't have five parents in a team of seven. 382 00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:44,909 Speaker 2: I do think that from our workforce planning strategy, human capital, Derek, 383 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:45,770 Speaker 2: correct me. I'm wrong. I think 384 00:16:46,020 --> 00:16:47,479 Speaker 2: there is a lot of merit to look at how 385 00:16:47,489 --> 00:16:50,719 Speaker 2: you can diversify, have a more well rounded or more 386 00:16:50,729 --> 00:16:54,489 Speaker 2: balanced profile workers with different age groups, different backgrounds, right? 387 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,309 Speaker 2: So that they can support each other rather than everybody 388 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: at the same stage. Yeah, it's always nice to propose 389 00:16:59,969 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: meritocracy and that everybody should be given the chance if 390 00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 2: you are the best candidate for the job. But you 391 00:17:04,930 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 2: also need to see the fit into that role right 392 00:17:07,209 --> 00:17:09,739 Speaker 2: into the team, right? If I have two candidates who 393 00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:12,030 Speaker 2: seem like a very good fit with good skill sets, 394 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:12,839 Speaker 2: I also kind of need to know, 395 00:17:12,935 --> 00:17:16,813 Speaker 2: look at my existing team and see where this person 396 00:17:16,824 --> 00:17:19,275 Speaker 2: fit in the dynamics. So if I have a team 397 00:17:19,285 --> 00:17:21,364 Speaker 2: full of young parents and maybe I just need to 398 00:17:21,375 --> 00:17:24,024 Speaker 2: hire the single person. This reminds me of a story 399 00:17:24,035 --> 00:17:25,974 Speaker 2: that I heard from someone I know and he did 400 00:17:25,984 --> 00:17:28,515 Speaker 2: share that in his department. Everybody is around the same 401 00:17:28,525 --> 00:17:31,145 Speaker 2: life stage. That means they are all young. Maybe a 402 00:17:31,155 --> 00:17:33,275 Speaker 2: lot of them are recently married, no kids or they 403 00:17:33,285 --> 00:17:35,724 Speaker 2: are not married yet, still dating. He is the only 404 00:17:35,734 --> 00:17:37,935 Speaker 2: one in the department of 30 that has a toddler, 405 00:17:37,944 --> 00:17:39,775 Speaker 2: an infant. Ok. Right. And then I, 406 00:17:39,849 --> 00:17:42,300 Speaker 2: I think this was where his world of work started 407 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:45,500 Speaker 2: to shift a little bit because he cannot balance everything already. 408 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:47,579 Speaker 2: Some of the conversations that we had were like, I 409 00:17:47,589 --> 00:17:50,649 Speaker 2: feel very guilty for leaving the office early because everybody 410 00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:52,739 Speaker 2: is in the office. But my wife is asking me, 411 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:54,869 Speaker 2: where are you? Your kid needs you at home. His 412 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 2: boss also doesn't have kids. So it's like he's the 413 00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:59,329 Speaker 2: only one of a kid. He didn't know where to 414 00:17:59,339 --> 00:18:01,829 Speaker 2: be in the office with other people or at home 415 00:18:01,839 --> 00:18:03,420 Speaker 2: where he's supposed to take on the role of being 416 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:06,079 Speaker 2: a father. This was something that was quite jarring for 417 00:18:06,089 --> 00:18:06,670 Speaker 2: this person. 418 00:18:06,765 --> 00:18:09,264 Speaker 2: I think eventually there was this discussion on how to 419 00:18:09,275 --> 00:18:11,974 Speaker 2: maybe ease off some of the tension and pressures and 420 00:18:11,984 --> 00:18:14,285 Speaker 2: to acknowledge that you are actually entering a new life stage. 421 00:18:14,305 --> 00:18:16,885 Speaker 2: And what this means for the people who don't understand 422 00:18:16,895 --> 00:18:19,484 Speaker 2: is you have to communicate that across to your leaders, 423 00:18:19,494 --> 00:18:22,054 Speaker 2: to your colleagues. They may not understand, but you still 424 00:18:22,064 --> 00:18:24,204 Speaker 2: have to do yourself justice to communicate that out because 425 00:18:24,214 --> 00:18:26,614 Speaker 2: you're acknowledging that you're going through that phase, right? Eventually 426 00:18:26,625 --> 00:18:28,655 Speaker 2: this person left the company because want to do it 427 00:18:28,665 --> 00:18:30,944 Speaker 2: for something else different that can also accommodate more of 428 00:18:30,954 --> 00:18:33,555 Speaker 2: this life stage as he is in. And I can 429 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,579 Speaker 2: also speak out for the singles as well. I mean, 430 00:18:35,589 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: I only became a mom quite late in life. So 431 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:42,819 Speaker 2: when I was single, I would feel often quite frustrated 432 00:18:42,829 --> 00:18:45,670 Speaker 2: sometimes that those who are parents, if they need to, 433 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,020 Speaker 2: they can go and handle their kids and then I 434 00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:50,569 Speaker 2: would have to take on more responsibilities. I would have 435 00:18:50,579 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 2: to take on more workload as well. So, I mean, 436 00:18:52,689 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: if anybody was listening to this and think that like, oh, 437 00:18:54,810 --> 00:18:57,300 Speaker 2: how come you're speaking on behalf of the parents? Because 438 00:18:57,310 --> 00:19:00,489 Speaker 2: singles or people with no Children also do bear the 439 00:19:00,594 --> 00:19:03,614 Speaker 2: run of this. So maybe we can talk about how 440 00:19:03,625 --> 00:19:04,944 Speaker 2: can we do it in such a way where it 441 00:19:04,954 --> 00:19:08,625 Speaker 2: doesn't affect the company's output or morale. 442 00:19:08,635 --> 00:19:11,464 Speaker 1: I genuinely think it takes two hands to clap. So 443 00:19:11,474 --> 00:19:14,255 Speaker 1: I think like what Jared mentioned earlier, the parent has 444 00:19:14,265 --> 00:19:16,334 Speaker 1: to also be able to communicate this to their team 445 00:19:16,344 --> 00:19:18,935 Speaker 1: members or to the managers that, hey, this is what 446 00:19:18,944 --> 00:19:21,234 Speaker 1: I'm going through. I do hope you understand that I 447 00:19:21,244 --> 00:19:23,255 Speaker 1: may need to have some time off or I need 448 00:19:23,265 --> 00:19:26,545 Speaker 1: to clear some of the statutory benefits that is being 449 00:19:26,555 --> 00:19:27,395 Speaker 1: accorded to me. 450 00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:30,150 Speaker 1: But yet at the same time, on the company aspect, 451 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,510 Speaker 1: both the hr and the management has to do their 452 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,030 Speaker 1: demographic analysis, right of the entire company or even of 453 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,510 Speaker 1: certain departments as to analyzing whether are there any possibilities? OK. 454 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,689 Speaker 1: On the coming financial year, about whether would this team 455 00:19:43,699 --> 00:19:46,770 Speaker 1: be potentially going through an additional bump in the resource 456 00:19:46,780 --> 00:19:48,270 Speaker 1: support that needs to be given to it? 457 00:19:48,790 --> 00:19:50,890 Speaker 1: So if they are able to put these two contexts together, 458 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:54,869 Speaker 1: then naturally the company's operating impact would be minimized. But 459 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,770 Speaker 1: then again, there's only that amount of predictions that can 460 00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:59,849 Speaker 1: be done beyond that, it has to be woven into 461 00:19:59,859 --> 00:20:02,790 Speaker 1: company culture that whatever comes our way, we will stick 462 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,250 Speaker 1: to it together as a team or as an organization 463 00:20:05,459 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: you mentioned when you were single back then and you 464 00:20:08,569 --> 00:20:10,829 Speaker 1: had to bear the brunt of some of the workload, 465 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:11,329 Speaker 1: does it 466 00:20:11,416 --> 00:20:13,875 Speaker 1: and give you the perspective that, oh, it's better that 467 00:20:13,885 --> 00:20:15,254 Speaker 1: I can start my family so that I can be 468 00:20:15,265 --> 00:20:17,244 Speaker 1: on the other side of the fence if it is, 469 00:20:17,255 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 1: that helps in the national agenda. Right. Yeah, 470 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:21,225 Speaker 2: I mean, from having kids so that I can take 471 00:20:21,234 --> 00:20:23,514 Speaker 2: the extra six days. I think that's like a bit 472 00:20:23,526 --> 00:20:25,836 Speaker 2: not worth it. You know what I mean? It's just 473 00:20:25,845 --> 00:20:29,656 Speaker 2: extra six days. Yeah, I think you're right. I think 474 00:20:29,666 --> 00:20:31,776 Speaker 2: there needs to be a mindset shift within the company 475 00:20:31,786 --> 00:20:33,936 Speaker 2: as well. It is one thing to have 476 00:20:34,041 --> 00:20:36,881 Speaker 2: policies in place to say I want to do X 477 00:20:36,891 --> 00:20:39,501 Speaker 2: number of days we are going to increase to what 478 00:20:39,511 --> 00:20:41,251 Speaker 2: or how does it look like kind of stuff. But 479 00:20:41,271 --> 00:20:44,870 Speaker 2: within the company, I think if employers managers or even 480 00:20:44,982 --> 00:20:48,541 Speaker 2: your coworkers, they don't understand that you are actually not 481 00:20:48,552 --> 00:20:51,891 Speaker 2: using it to go and enjoy yourself. You are really 482 00:20:51,901 --> 00:20:53,900 Speaker 2: using it because it's a time of need or to 483 00:20:53,911 --> 00:20:56,582 Speaker 2: go to actually your second job, which is parenting and 484 00:20:56,819 --> 00:20:59,650 Speaker 2: that is where you don't get a day off, right? 485 00:20:59,660 --> 00:21:01,819 Speaker 1: So I guess like just now I mentioned about the 486 00:21:01,829 --> 00:21:05,150 Speaker 1: signaling from the employee. Likewise, it is a two way street, right? 487 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,050 Speaker 1: The employer would also have to do a posturing a 488 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:10,869 Speaker 1: signaling to the entire company that hey, we are supportive 489 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,469 Speaker 1: of you. We are able to walk this journey with you. 490 00:21:13,540 --> 00:21:16,849 Speaker 1: And this does also have a indirect uplift to the 491 00:21:16,859 --> 00:21:18,189 Speaker 1: company's employer branding. 492 00:21:18,550 --> 00:21:20,900 Speaker 1: I'm very certain that for many parents who are going 493 00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:24,489 Speaker 1: through this, they are going through it at a momentary inconvenience, 494 00:21:24,689 --> 00:21:26,689 Speaker 1: but they are still a talent to the company. And 495 00:21:26,699 --> 00:21:29,218 Speaker 1: for the company, if they were not to plan the 496 00:21:29,229 --> 00:21:32,250 Speaker 1: policies correctly, then they may lose this talent, which is 497 00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:32,660 Speaker 1: a waste, 498 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,300 Speaker 2: right? Especially in talent car, Singapore, not enough good people, right? 499 00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:38,500 Speaker 2: If you have someone that's good on your team and 500 00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:40,770 Speaker 2: the person is going through a season of child raising 501 00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:43,250 Speaker 2: for at least seven years. If you have some good 502 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,089 Speaker 2: policies and support a culture within the company to support them. 503 00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:48,459 Speaker 2: You could retain them for the long haul. That's true. 504 00:21:48,550 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: What more can we get if we were to crystal 505 00:21:51,569 --> 00:21:53,649 Speaker 2: ball and look into the future? What more do you 506 00:21:53,660 --> 00:21:56,619 Speaker 2: think we can get to really help ease the burden 507 00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:59,750 Speaker 2: of parents and also their coworkers? 508 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,139 Speaker 1: I did some reading up prior to coming into this room. 509 00:22:02,150 --> 00:22:02,180 Speaker 2: Oh, 510 00:22:02,189 --> 00:22:04,319 Speaker 1: thank you. And 511 00:22:04,430 --> 00:22:06,310 Speaker 1: I saw that. Well, it may not be now, but 512 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:08,709 Speaker 1: at least at one point of time, Hungary tried to 513 00:22:08,719 --> 00:22:13,050 Speaker 1: give grandparents allowance. So I think there can be some 514 00:22:13,060 --> 00:22:15,469 Speaker 1: consideration because after all, in Singapore, we are quite a 515 00:22:15,479 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: multigenerational culture where we are still close to our or 516 00:22:19,449 --> 00:22:22,459 Speaker 1: rather where the grandchildren are quite close to the grandparents. 517 00:22:22,829 --> 00:22:24,849 Speaker 1: So I think if this is one area that can 518 00:22:24,859 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: be looked into naturally, it may also give a certain 519 00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: confidence to would be parents to pick up the courage 520 00:22:31,449 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: to start a family, 521 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,530 Speaker 2: Gerald. What do you think 522 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:36,099 Speaker 2: one of the key things that I am thinking about 523 00:22:36,109 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 2: that could potentially be important for Singapore as a whole 524 00:22:38,449 --> 00:22:41,319 Speaker 2: if you are thinking about more parental support, right? It's 525 00:22:41,329 --> 00:22:43,369 Speaker 2: we may have to be comfortable to say that, you 526 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:46,099 Speaker 2: know what? It's ok that I'm kind of easing into 527 00:22:46,109 --> 00:22:48,729 Speaker 2: another role of being a parent and whatever happens at work, right? 528 00:22:48,739 --> 00:22:51,180 Speaker 2: I continue to do my best, but I'm not going 529 00:22:51,189 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: to give my expectations on myself to excel or to 530 00:22:54,369 --> 00:22:58,050 Speaker 2: climb as how a single person or a married, but 531 00:22:58,060 --> 00:22:59,339 Speaker 2: no kids person would because 532 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:01,469 Speaker 2: there's a lot of pressure. I mean, we live in 533 00:23:01,479 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: such high pressured environments. I mean, this is from a 534 00:23:04,369 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: lot of the people that I speak to maybe because 535 00:23:06,050 --> 00:23:08,310 Speaker 2: they are all my clients. Right. Yeah. But I realize 536 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:10,469 Speaker 2: there's so much that we carry so much expectations. We 537 00:23:10,479 --> 00:23:13,050 Speaker 2: want to give ourselves the best in the workplace. We 538 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:14,469 Speaker 2: give ourselves the best at home 539 00:23:14,949 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: somewhere. Something's got to kind of take a back seat 540 00:23:18,010 --> 00:23:19,069 Speaker 2: a little bit, right? 541 00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:21,290 Speaker 1: I think beyond that, it is also good for listeners 542 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:23,929 Speaker 1: who are hr practitioners to learn about how they are 543 00:23:23,939 --> 00:23:27,579 Speaker 1: able to redesign some of the workflow to only accommodate 544 00:23:27,589 --> 00:23:29,699 Speaker 1: for some of the team members who may be going 545 00:23:29,709 --> 00:23:32,448 Speaker 1: through this phase of life. I mean, after all come 546 00:23:32,459 --> 00:23:34,819 Speaker 1: end of this year, there is the flexi work arrangement 547 00:23:34,829 --> 00:23:36,649 Speaker 1: that will be in legislation. 548 00:23:36,979 --> 00:23:39,079 Speaker 1: So I think there's no better time than now for 549 00:23:39,089 --> 00:23:41,739 Speaker 1: companies to actually look into this to ascertain how they 550 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:43,839 Speaker 1: are able to better support their team members who are 551 00:23:43,849 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: going through or who are potentially going through this 552 00:23:46,410 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: for 553 00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:49,619 Speaker 2: me in my wish list. I'm going to put it 554 00:23:49,630 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: out there, right? If you are listening Ministry of Manpower 555 00:23:52,410 --> 00:23:53,979 Speaker 2: and you want to take the idea, it's fine. You 556 00:23:53,989 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: don't have to credit me, 557 00:23:55,410 --> 00:23:59,579 Speaker 2: but I'm gonna say give parents 4.5 workday weeks why? 558 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,270 Speaker 2: And it's up to six years old as well. That 559 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,270 Speaker 2: actually encourages people firstly to go and have Children. Secondly, 560 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 2: that half day really makes a lot of difference. I 561 00:24:08,209 --> 00:24:10,689 Speaker 2: feel that half day just allows you to even take 562 00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:12,959 Speaker 2: your Children out from preschool. If they are in full 563 00:24:12,969 --> 00:24:15,989 Speaker 2: day care, play with them, go and do things with them. 564 00:24:16,109 --> 00:24:18,709 Speaker 2: And when you institute or you put it in place, 565 00:24:18,719 --> 00:24:20,979 Speaker 2: there's going to be 4.5 there is no pick and 566 00:24:20,989 --> 00:24:23,079 Speaker 2: choose where you want to put these six days in 567 00:24:23,089 --> 00:24:23,589 Speaker 2: a year 568 00:24:23,949 --> 00:24:26,229 Speaker 2: and after a while your colleagues or even your bosses 569 00:24:26,239 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 2: would just know. Ok, Tiffany is gonna clock off on 570 00:24:28,209 --> 00:24:29,989 Speaker 2: Friday at 1 p.m. It doesn't have to be Friday. 571 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 2: It could be Wednesday, Tuesday, Thursday, Monday even I could 572 00:24:32,890 --> 00:24:35,530 Speaker 2: start half a day later. Yeah. When you say 4.5, 573 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:38,349 Speaker 2: I was thinking about knock off at 430. 0, really? Yeah. 574 00:24:38,489 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 2: Knock on 430. Then at least you can go back 575 00:24:40,449 --> 00:24:40,910 Speaker 2: home decompress 576 00:24:42,785 --> 00:24:43,395 Speaker 2: compressed 577 00:24:43,444 --> 00:24:45,834 Speaker 1: regardless. I would guess this is a good motivation for 578 00:24:45,844 --> 00:24:48,185 Speaker 1: singles to start. 579 00:24:48,905 --> 00:24:50,594 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then they will go like maybe I want 580 00:24:50,604 --> 00:24:53,295 Speaker 2: to have kids at 25 instead of waiting till I'm 581 00:24:53,305 --> 00:24:55,935 Speaker 2: 30 before I try to have my first kid. Right? Yeah. Yeah. 582 00:24:55,944 --> 00:24:59,885 Speaker 2: So 4.5 work day week. Do consider dear Singapore government 583 00:24:59,895 --> 00:25:03,045 Speaker 2: from Tiffany Ang. Well, thank you so much, Derek for 584 00:25:03,055 --> 00:25:05,625 Speaker 2: coming on sharing what you have seen as well in 585 00:25:05,635 --> 00:25:08,114 Speaker 2: the workforce and some of your views. Thank you so much. 586 00:25:08,125 --> 00:25:08,474 Speaker 2: Thank you. 587 00:25:08,484 --> 00:25:09,915 Speaker 1: Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. 588 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:17,839 Speaker 2: Hi, welcome back. This is our ask me anything segment 589 00:25:17,849 --> 00:25:21,270 Speaker 2: where I asked Gerald, a work related question that you 590 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,250 Speaker 2: have sent to us. Gerald. Today's question was sent in 591 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 2: by a listener who wants to be known as Kay. 592 00:25:27,229 --> 00:25:30,819 Speaker 2: Kay says he's a software developer and he's a jack 593 00:25:30,829 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: of all trades in his industry. I don't know what 594 00:25:32,930 --> 00:25:34,780 Speaker 2: that means because I'm not in that industry, 595 00:25:35,050 --> 00:25:36,750 Speaker 2: but he says there's lots of things to do in 596 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,229 Speaker 2: his company, but he doesn't see his colleagues stepping up. 597 00:25:40,239 --> 00:25:42,609 Speaker 2: He wants to show his manager that he can do more. 598 00:25:42,619 --> 00:25:46,150 Speaker 2: He writes my motivation for this comes from my performance 599 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,909 Speaker 2: review earlier this year which I was graded as average 600 00:25:50,140 --> 00:25:52,169 Speaker 2: and I was advised to pick up more work to 601 00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:54,469 Speaker 2: do if I wanted a better grade and a chance 602 00:25:54,479 --> 00:25:57,310 Speaker 2: for promotion. I did mention this to my manager to 603 00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:00,069 Speaker 2: which they just simply asked me to look at the 604 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:02,149 Speaker 2: backlog and pick something to do. 605 00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:04,819 Speaker 2: I know that they are overwhelmed and probably don't have 606 00:26:04,829 --> 00:26:07,079 Speaker 2: time to deal with me, but I'm not sure what 607 00:26:07,089 --> 00:26:10,188 Speaker 2: to do. Do I lie flat? I guess that's the 608 00:26:10,199 --> 00:26:12,438 Speaker 2: way of him saying that. Do I just stay there 609 00:26:12,449 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 2: and don't do anything or do I try to steal 610 00:26:15,369 --> 00:26:17,448 Speaker 2: what my colleague is trying to do or do I 611 00:26:17,459 --> 00:26:20,459 Speaker 2: email my manager and ask for advice. So firstly, can 612 00:26:20,469 --> 00:26:22,300 Speaker 2: I just say that I'll be grateful to have a 613 00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:25,550 Speaker 2: staff like Kay who takes initiative to ask for more work. 614 00:26:25,694 --> 00:26:28,515 Speaker 2: But maybe let's try and understand from the manager situation. 615 00:26:28,765 --> 00:26:32,275 Speaker 2: Why would they ask him to look at the backlog 616 00:26:32,285 --> 00:26:34,314 Speaker 2: and pick something to do? Why wouldn't they be more 617 00:26:34,324 --> 00:26:38,155 Speaker 2: concrete with their instructions? I think firstly k it really 618 00:26:38,165 --> 00:26:40,625 Speaker 2: sounds like you really want to do very well looking 619 00:26:40,635 --> 00:26:42,864 Speaker 2: at what you gave to us in terms of a question, 620 00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:44,774 Speaker 2: I feel for you because it sounds like you are 621 00:26:44,785 --> 00:26:47,254 Speaker 2: genuine about wanting to develop yourself. You want to do 622 00:26:47,265 --> 00:26:48,795 Speaker 2: better on your job performance. But 623 00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:51,599 Speaker 2: I think your boss, your manager might not be as 624 00:26:51,609 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: supportive as you think. Right. So that's my own opinion. Why? 625 00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 2: Because I think most of the time when we have 626 00:26:57,689 --> 00:27:00,839 Speaker 2: employees and they come to us asking about performance grades 627 00:27:00,849 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: and how to become better, it's the responsibility of the 628 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:05,978 Speaker 2: manager to really sit down to unpack a little bit 629 00:27:05,989 --> 00:27:08,859 Speaker 2: more about what the employee did well in and what 630 00:27:08,869 --> 00:27:10,619 Speaker 2: are some of the areas that they may need to 631 00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:13,198 Speaker 2: improve or develop a lot more on? And it certainly 632 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:15,430 Speaker 2: that kind of conversation will go a lot more than 633 00:27:15,439 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: just look at the back, lot of work, just do 634 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:20,989 Speaker 2: more right. Doing more doesn't seem like it's going to 635 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,198 Speaker 2: be the solution. Because if K job grade was average, 636 00:27:24,209 --> 00:27:26,719 Speaker 2: I'm not sure whether it's a matter of the volume 637 00:27:26,729 --> 00:27:28,930 Speaker 2: of work or is it his competency? You see. So, 638 00:27:28,939 --> 00:27:31,939 Speaker 2: I think for managers, if you are in the similar 639 00:27:31,949 --> 00:27:34,849 Speaker 2: situation where you are busy, like what cases his manager 640 00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:35,238 Speaker 2: is in, 641 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,459 Speaker 2: maybe take the time out to really sit down with 642 00:27:37,469 --> 00:27:41,390 Speaker 2: your employee to unpack more about what you want from 643 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,329 Speaker 2: the employee to do better in and sometimes maybe even 644 00:27:44,339 --> 00:27:47,569 Speaker 2: just be honest. Right? Because performance grades sometimes are out 645 00:27:47,579 --> 00:27:49,630 Speaker 2: of your control, correct? And just be honest to say 646 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,369 Speaker 2: that I try to fight for you. I think in 647 00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:53,689 Speaker 2: my opinion, you are a grader, you deserve a better 648 00:27:53,699 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: higher grade, but for some reason they are out of 649 00:27:55,569 --> 00:27:57,890 Speaker 2: my control, you ended up with a lower score. 650 00:27:58,095 --> 00:28:00,645 Speaker 2: I think people just want an honest answer. They want 651 00:28:00,656 --> 00:28:02,764 Speaker 2: some transparency because I think what Kay is trying to 652 00:28:02,776 --> 00:28:05,336 Speaker 2: say is that to try and get a higher performance grade, 653 00:28:05,505 --> 00:28:08,365 Speaker 2: he doesn't want to just pick up on the volume 654 00:28:08,375 --> 00:28:11,395 Speaker 2: of work, right? The extra tasks, like you say, he 655 00:28:11,406 --> 00:28:13,635 Speaker 2: wants to be a bit more competent in the task 656 00:28:13,645 --> 00:28:15,696 Speaker 2: that he already has. So for the manager to say, 657 00:28:15,705 --> 00:28:17,734 Speaker 2: just look at the backlog, it's kind of like telling 658 00:28:17,744 --> 00:28:20,115 Speaker 2: him go back to the toy basket and pick out 659 00:28:20,125 --> 00:28:20,625 Speaker 2: something else. 660 00:28:20,671 --> 00:28:23,671 Speaker 2: So for K is just not helpful, but you know, 661 00:28:23,682 --> 00:28:26,472 Speaker 2: that's what precisely a manager is meant to do. They're 662 00:28:26,482 --> 00:28:29,541 Speaker 2: meant to manage, they're meant to assign the work delegate, 663 00:28:29,552 --> 00:28:32,552 Speaker 2: the work to the right people, they're meant to develop 664 00:28:32,561 --> 00:28:34,952 Speaker 2: the staff under them. So I think this really falls 665 00:28:34,962 --> 00:28:37,251 Speaker 2: a lot into case manager to step up a bit 666 00:28:37,261 --> 00:28:40,572 Speaker 2: more right beyond his own work responsibilities, which I feel for. 667 00:28:40,751 --> 00:28:42,812 Speaker 2: I know it's busy. You have a lot on your 668 00:28:42,822 --> 00:28:43,171 Speaker 2: plate 669 00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:45,949 Speaker 2: but you have to remember that there are employees there, 670 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,849 Speaker 2: there are staff there, they are looking to you, their 671 00:28:47,859 --> 00:28:50,989 Speaker 2: livelihoods and their future and their careers also depend on you. Yeah. 672 00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:54,630 Speaker 2: So now what should K do k I don't think 673 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,630 Speaker 2: you should try and steal your colleague's work because that 674 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: will make you very unpopular. People really hate you for it. 675 00:29:00,750 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: But then what can he do? So totally agree with you, Tiffany. 676 00:29:03,650 --> 00:29:05,670 Speaker 2: It's not for Kay to just immediately jump into the 677 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,979 Speaker 2: backlog and start doing things because I don't know whether 678 00:29:07,989 --> 00:29:10,510 Speaker 2: there were ruffle feathers, right? That will make people irritated. 679 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,819 Speaker 2: And then after that, an issue gets floated to the 680 00:29:12,829 --> 00:29:15,260 Speaker 2: manager manager. Why do you do this? I think for 681 00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:17,469 Speaker 2: k it will be good for him to maybe clarify 682 00:29:17,479 --> 00:29:19,790 Speaker 2: with the manager a little bit more about expectations. So 683 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: like for example, out of that bad lot of work. 684 00:29:22,170 --> 00:29:24,410 Speaker 2: Which ones do you think if I have to pick 685 00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: up one, what would that be? What would you prioritize 686 00:29:26,410 --> 00:29:28,329 Speaker 2: for me? What would be important for me to do 687 00:29:28,390 --> 00:29:28,609 Speaker 2: and 688 00:29:28,858 --> 00:29:31,578 Speaker 2: back to your performance? Like in terms of the areas 689 00:29:31,588 --> 00:29:33,718 Speaker 2: that you want to grow, the areas that would help 690 00:29:33,728 --> 00:29:36,197 Speaker 2: you to be profiled better or maybe the areas where 691 00:29:36,208 --> 00:29:38,167 Speaker 2: you can build new skills. So maybe you want to 692 00:29:38,177 --> 00:29:40,468 Speaker 2: give these pointers to your manager say, could you prioritize 693 00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:43,687 Speaker 2: some of these things along for me, sometimes those opportunities 694 00:29:43,697 --> 00:29:45,527 Speaker 2: may not open up in itself. You may have to 695 00:29:45,537 --> 00:29:47,787 Speaker 2: work with another team or may start to have to 696 00:29:47,797 --> 00:29:50,187 Speaker 2: work for another department. So ask the manager to broker 697 00:29:50,197 --> 00:29:52,447 Speaker 2: that for you, send that email across to them to 698 00:29:52,458 --> 00:29:53,998 Speaker 2: say that I'm going to be working with them right 699 00:29:54,008 --> 00:29:56,878 Speaker 2: now rather than just going cold on your own, 700 00:29:56,965 --> 00:29:59,036 Speaker 2: introducing yourself there. I think it's only right that your 701 00:29:59,046 --> 00:30:02,816 Speaker 2: manager allocate other resources like K towards the projects that 702 00:30:02,826 --> 00:30:05,315 Speaker 2: are signed. So I think that will help everyone in 703 00:30:05,326 --> 00:30:07,276 Speaker 2: the new team in the new area of work to 704 00:30:07,286 --> 00:30:09,725 Speaker 2: also know why you're there to work with you. Knowing 705 00:30:09,735 --> 00:30:12,946 Speaker 2: that someone has required for you to be there working 706 00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:15,546 Speaker 2: on certain tasks or projects with other teams might actually 707 00:30:15,556 --> 00:30:17,385 Speaker 2: be a good thing for the manager because it sounds 708 00:30:17,395 --> 00:30:20,066 Speaker 2: also that the manager could be very overwhelmed like what 709 00:30:20,076 --> 00:30:22,786 Speaker 2: Kay is saying and in a way putting K on 710 00:30:22,796 --> 00:30:24,985 Speaker 2: a different path could help the manager 711 00:30:25,073 --> 00:30:27,494 Speaker 2: to get some breathing space as well. So I think 712 00:30:27,504 --> 00:30:30,593 Speaker 2: if in case situation, if let's say the manager can't 713 00:30:30,604 --> 00:30:33,644 Speaker 2: afford any of time, you cannot afford conversations with you 714 00:30:33,654 --> 00:30:36,063 Speaker 2: right then, OK, what you could do is perhaps look 715 00:30:36,073 --> 00:30:38,234 Speaker 2: through and pick up your own assignments, but keep your 716 00:30:38,244 --> 00:30:42,644 Speaker 2: manager informed, do periodic updates over email or just over 717 00:30:42,654 --> 00:30:44,973 Speaker 2: the table kind of a chat to say what's been happening. 718 00:30:45,213 --> 00:30:47,473 Speaker 2: I think what you want to do is to let 719 00:30:47,484 --> 00:30:49,443 Speaker 2: your manager know what's on your radar and for your 720 00:30:49,453 --> 00:30:52,693 Speaker 2: manager to also be kept updated of your progress just 721 00:30:52,703 --> 00:30:53,093 Speaker 2: so that if 722 00:30:53,182 --> 00:30:55,962 Speaker 2: anything happens at all, whether good or bad, your manager 723 00:30:55,972 --> 00:30:58,041 Speaker 2: can be there to vouch for you to support you 724 00:30:58,052 --> 00:30:59,661 Speaker 2: and he or she can wash off their hands and 725 00:30:59,671 --> 00:31:01,222 Speaker 2: say I didn't know any of these things are going 726 00:31:01,232 --> 00:31:03,482 Speaker 2: on last, but not least you want to celebrate with 727 00:31:03,491 --> 00:31:05,982 Speaker 2: your manager in any of the success that you have. 728 00:31:06,011 --> 00:31:08,332 Speaker 2: So I think this is more of a positive reinforcement 729 00:31:08,342 --> 00:31:10,761 Speaker 2: upward management kind of a move. You want to tell 730 00:31:10,771 --> 00:31:12,812 Speaker 2: your boss that if you started a project and you 731 00:31:12,822 --> 00:31:14,881 Speaker 2: are really satisfied with it and you're learning a lot 732 00:31:14,891 --> 00:31:16,401 Speaker 2: from it. You want to tell a manager? Thank you 733 00:31:16,411 --> 00:31:19,682 Speaker 2: for allowing me this opportunity to grow, to develop myself. 734 00:31:19,692 --> 00:31:21,182 Speaker 2: I'm really excited. I'm very happy. 735 00:31:21,569 --> 00:31:24,229 Speaker 2: I think when managers are busy, especially if they see this, 736 00:31:24,239 --> 00:31:26,550 Speaker 2: they start to feel good about themselves and then they 737 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,369 Speaker 2: may start to tweak a little bit more attention and 738 00:31:28,380 --> 00:31:31,099 Speaker 2: focus on you in terms of development because they see 739 00:31:31,109 --> 00:31:33,469 Speaker 2: that you are self initiated, self driven. They want to 740 00:31:33,479 --> 00:31:36,189 Speaker 2: help you succeed as well. These tips, I hope it 741 00:31:36,199 --> 00:31:38,290 Speaker 2: comes useful for you as you think about how to 742 00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:41,390 Speaker 2: be a more than average worker. Let us know if 743 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 2: you've tried some of Jal's methods and if it's helpful, 744 00:31:44,010 --> 00:31:46,699 Speaker 2: we love to hear back from you and for all 745 00:31:46,709 --> 00:31:48,589 Speaker 2: of you else out there, right? To us 746 00:31:48,704 --> 00:31:52,555 Speaker 2: at CN A podcasts at mediacorp.com dot SG. We're waiting 747 00:31:52,564 --> 00:31:56,875 Speaker 2: for your questions. We're also streaming on Spotify, Apple podcasts 748 00:31:56,885 --> 00:31:59,935 Speaker 2: and a video version of this is on youtube. The 749 00:31:59,944 --> 00:32:04,064 Speaker 2: team behind the work it podcast is Christina Robert Joan Chan, 750 00:32:04,165 --> 00:32:08,645 Speaker 2: Sye Wen, Jaini, Johari Rosli Pute and Toh Yan Yun 751 00:32:08,755 --> 00:32:12,145 Speaker 2: C mixing is by Carrie Lim video by Haida Amin. 752 00:32:12,155 --> 00:32:14,584 Speaker 2: I'm Tiffany and I'm Gerald. We hope that you will 753 00:32:14,594 --> 00:32:15,625 Speaker 2: work it this week. 754 00:32:17,989 --> 00:32:18,150 Speaker 2: I'll go.