1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,620 Speaker 1: This is a C N. A podcast. 2 00:00:02,630 --> 00:00:10,170 Speaker 2: You're listening to a special four part series of C 3 00:00:10,170 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 2: and S Heart of the matter podcast spotlighting on issues 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: close to the heart of use here in Singapore? I'm 5 00:00:17,310 --> 00:00:21,100 Speaker 2: and I'm Jamie han, a final year student at somatic polytechnique, 6 00:00:21,110 --> 00:00:24,390 Speaker 2: your co host for today, it could be a neighbor, 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,050 Speaker 2: your classmates or even a close family member or a friend, 8 00:00:28,060 --> 00:00:30,890 Speaker 2: whether we want to admit it or not, the struggles 9 00:00:30,890 --> 00:00:34,100 Speaker 2: of mental illness have taken its toll on my generation 10 00:00:34,110 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: and leave much to be desired from our loved ones, 11 00:00:36,729 --> 00:00:40,500 Speaker 2: our health services and society. But while mental health has 12 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:44,410 Speaker 2: received much media coverage since Covid hit, it still remains 13 00:00:44,409 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: a big taboo. We ask our see any instagram followers 14 00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:51,139 Speaker 2: was mental health something you could discuss at home growing 15 00:00:51,140 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: up or is it a personal issue that one should 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,750 Speaker 2: learn to cope with by themselves? And do we still 17 00:00:56,750 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: see people who come forward as unstable 18 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:02,860 Speaker 2: or unreliable? We have more on that later in the show. 19 00:01:04,340 --> 00:01:06,180 Speaker 2: Let us welcome to guests who are with us in 20 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:09,220 Speaker 2: the studio today. Dr Daniel Fang ceo of the Institute 21 00:01:09,220 --> 00:01:10,220 Speaker 2: of Mental Health. 22 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:11,390 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello 23 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 2: and Darryl. So who's president of the Singapore University of 24 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,890 Speaker 2: Social Sciences or sus says peer support group. Hi, hello, 25 00:01:17,890 --> 00:01:21,619 Speaker 2: everyone we want to talk about speaking about what's causing 26 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:22,250 Speaker 2: this 27 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,459 Speaker 2: mental health issue. Is it higher awareness or is it 28 00:01:25,459 --> 00:01:26,460 Speaker 2: a deepening problem 29 00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: In 2021? A survey carried out by the Institute of 30 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,370 Speaker 2: Mental Health, such as rising levels of depression and anxiety 31 00:01:33,370 --> 00:01:36,660 Speaker 2: in Singapore on 2020 poll by the Culture Community and 32 00:01:36,660 --> 00:01:39,690 Speaker 2: Youth Ministry also shows youths say mental health is a 33 00:01:39,690 --> 00:01:40,550 Speaker 2: key concern. 34 00:01:40,940 --> 00:01:44,110 Speaker 2: They are worried about the future. Is there something fundamentally 35 00:01:44,110 --> 00:01:47,220 Speaker 2: broken with Singapore society? Would you say we are having 36 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:48,570 Speaker 2: a mental health epidemic? 37 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:51,980 Speaker 1: This is not just a national crisis. It's a it's 38 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:55,930 Speaker 1: a global crisis, it's an international global crisis. And in 39 00:01:55,930 --> 00:02:00,210 Speaker 1: any crisis, mental health is affected because mental health is 40 00:02:00,220 --> 00:02:00,950 Speaker 1: about 41 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:05,510 Speaker 1: the well being of individuals, not just illness alone and 42 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:08,790 Speaker 1: the well being of individuals always threatened in a crisis. Now, 43 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,619 Speaker 1: there is some confusion between the concept of health which 44 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:16,419 Speaker 1: is overall well being, not merely the absence of illness 45 00:02:16,430 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: and illness itself. When we say that there are higher 46 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,420 Speaker 1: rates of illness, these are studies that have been done 47 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:24,860 Speaker 1: at this point in time. 48 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,020 Speaker 1: Obviously, in this period of isolation of uncertainty, even in 49 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:35,510 Speaker 1: some sectors, job loss, it creates a certain level of 50 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:41,389 Speaker 1: heightened stress for individuals and stress causes distress, prolonged distress 51 00:02:41,389 --> 00:02:42,460 Speaker 1: causes problems. 52 00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:44,530 Speaker 1: But are you saying that this is something 53 00:02:44,530 --> 00:02:47,019 Speaker 2: happening all around the world? And Singapore is no exception. 54 00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:50,370 Speaker 1: Yes. In fact, the studies have suggested that. So, Singapore 55 00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: is reacting as many other countries have. In fact, when 56 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,149 Speaker 1: we do comparative studies across countries, you'll see that our 57 00:02:56,150 --> 00:02:59,860 Speaker 1: rates higher than usual are not as high as other countries, 58 00:02:59,870 --> 00:03:02,690 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that we're not concerned. It is 59 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:05,550 Speaker 1: still a crisis that we have to respond to 60 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,889 Speaker 1: and how do we do that? That's really key. 61 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: Even if we have an increase in illness, we've done 62 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,370 Speaker 1: two major prevalence studies in 2010 and 2016 and it 63 00:03:14,370 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: was one in eight in 2010 of people developing a 64 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,530 Speaker 1: mental illness in their lifetime and one in seven in 65 00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:24,030 Speaker 1: 2016 of people developing a mental illness in their lifetime, 66 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,250 Speaker 1: we're probably due for one next few years. But 67 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:30,340 Speaker 1: I would imagine the global rate is one in five, right, 20% 68 00:03:30,340 --> 00:03:32,660 Speaker 1: of the population will develop a mental illness. 69 00:03:32,740 --> 00:03:35,460 Speaker 1: Now, if a crisis comes along, that rate might go 70 00:03:35,460 --> 00:03:39,290 Speaker 1: up spike because you have vulnerabilities in severe stress, those 71 00:03:39,290 --> 00:03:42,060 Speaker 1: vulnerabilities will come, will step up in the way your 72 00:03:42,070 --> 00:03:45,810 Speaker 1: illness is more likely to occur now, that just means 73 00:03:45,820 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: illness side of the house, there's still 80% of the 74 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,810 Speaker 1: population that doesn't have illness, but they may have mental 75 00:03:50,810 --> 00:03:51,660 Speaker 1: health issues, 76 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,250 Speaker 1: problems and distress 77 00:03:53,540 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: that because of the pandemic exists. So it's important to 78 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,260 Speaker 1: understand mental health on the one hand and mental illness 79 00:04:00,270 --> 00:04:01,390 Speaker 1: on the other, Let's 80 00:04:01,390 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: cue over to Darryl, what's your take is something fundamentally 81 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,030 Speaker 2: different with Singapore society the last couple of years, I 82 00:04:07,030 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: think I bring a different perspective from dr daniel 19 years, 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,900 Speaker 2: much more awareness on the statistics on the global expect 84 00:04:12,910 --> 00:04:14,050 Speaker 2: whereas I'm a more 85 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:16,460 Speaker 2: local Singapore you. 86 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,980 Speaker 2: I don't think that there's anything fundamentally different from Singapore 87 00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:23,659 Speaker 2: as compared to what we see in the global stage. 88 00:04:23,670 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: What's different now is perhaps the platforms that are available for, 89 00:04:27,890 --> 00:04:29,260 Speaker 2: are used to reach out 90 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: and it's because of the availability of such platforms and 91 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,710 Speaker 2: services that we start to see a rise perhaps in 92 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:39,780 Speaker 2: people willing to speak up about the conscience that they 93 00:04:39,779 --> 00:04:42,350 Speaker 2: have faced. So you're saying that the higher poll numbers 94 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,419 Speaker 2: are good thing because there's higher awareness and people reaching out. 95 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: I think we could see in that front because like 96 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,550 Speaker 2: it's a glass, half full, half empty kind of situation. 97 00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:54,180 Speaker 2: We do look at it in that aspect. So you're 98 00:04:54,180 --> 00:04:57,700 Speaker 2: saying that maybe mental health has always been around, it's 99 00:04:57,700 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 2: just that now more people are speaking up about it, correct. 100 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,100 Speaker 2: I think that could be a big factor that the 101 00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: stigma that currently exists within our society, especially as an 102 00:05:07,450 --> 00:05:10,770 Speaker 2: asian country, could be a reason why in earlier years 103 00:05:10,779 --> 00:05:12,060 Speaker 2: many use 104 00:05:12,140 --> 00:05:14,469 Speaker 2: Or even adults were not willing to speak out the 105 00:05:14,470 --> 00:05:19,050 Speaker 2: condition because the stigma surrounding mental conditions were regarded as 106 00:05:19,060 --> 00:05:22,220 Speaker 2: the barrel being as weak. But what's the real reason 107 00:05:22,220 --> 00:05:26,980 Speaker 2: behind these mental stresses? Because Daniel mentioned COVID-19, but of 108 00:05:26,980 --> 00:05:29,060 Speaker 2: course in Singapore, we've heard a lot talked about 109 00:05:29,140 --> 00:05:32,860 Speaker 2: academic stress, cyberbullying social media as well, 110 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:35,570 Speaker 2: how much of this is and me asking as much 111 00:05:35,580 --> 00:05:39,089 Speaker 2: older person compared to Jamie here, every generation does go 112 00:05:39,089 --> 00:05:41,529 Speaker 2: through its own struggles as a sudden rite of passage 113 00:05:41,529 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: and you emerge from the cauldron a better person. So 114 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:47,550 Speaker 2: what do you think Daniel is different today and 115 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,970 Speaker 2: for someone who's older and expecting that youths can just 116 00:05:50,970 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: grow out of it, Is that a dismissive attitude? 117 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's this massive attitude, but I 118 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,540 Speaker 1: do think that we're talking about generational stresses and I 119 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: think stress exists like water, you know, it's there, but 120 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,370 Speaker 1: it changes over time. The stresses of life are different. 121 00:06:07,380 --> 00:06:10,050 Speaker 1: We used to have basic stresses, 122 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:14,950 Speaker 1: the access to clean water or good food and good nutrition, 123 00:06:14,950 --> 00:06:18,130 Speaker 1: I believe when I was young and I'm quite old now, 124 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: I had to queue up for milk because we will 125 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,540 Speaker 1: really skinny now I'm quite fat, you know, and many 126 00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: other young people too, so it's a different level of stress. 127 00:06:27,730 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: So the basic stress used to be housing, safety, physiological 128 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,859 Speaker 1: stresses of food and nutrition 129 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:35,909 Speaker 1: has become 130 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: higher levels of needs, what is on must lose hierarchy, 131 00:06:39,410 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: love and belonging, self actualization. So those kind of stresses 132 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: are harder to meet and social media has a very 133 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: specific role in this. What we used to like compare 134 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,930 Speaker 1: ourselves with our neighbors next door and the people that 135 00:06:52,930 --> 00:06:54,060 Speaker 1: we know in our schools, 136 00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: we now compare with the global population 137 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,540 Speaker 1: that's skewed towards a very unhealthy comparison because what you 138 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:03,170 Speaker 1: see on social media is not real life is the 139 00:07:03,170 --> 00:07:06,070 Speaker 1: only the real goods life, you know, and that's not 140 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:10,490 Speaker 1: ideal and that creates a certain level of wanting and desire, 141 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:13,370 Speaker 1: which is not being met and these lack of meeting 142 00:07:13,370 --> 00:07:17,570 Speaker 1: those expectations results in what you're seeing today, some of 143 00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:20,060 Speaker 1: those stresses that pinch in our young and they need 144 00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:20,850 Speaker 1: to talk about it, 145 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:23,740 Speaker 1: we need to have new ways of dealing with this 146 00:07:23,750 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: Daniel. I really agree that a lot of you have 147 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,140 Speaker 2: actually looked to social media as their sense of identity 148 00:07:29,140 --> 00:07:31,530 Speaker 2: and self worth, as you mentioned just now, on a 149 00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:33,890 Speaker 2: scale of 1 to 5, how would you rate the 150 00:07:33,890 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: role of social media on a young person's mental health? 151 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: Like how would you rate the impact it has, concretize 152 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,090 Speaker 2: it for us. Like maybe last time was one that 153 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:43,170 Speaker 2: was like five, 154 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:45,970 Speaker 1: very close to a five, maybe 4.5. I haven't met 155 00:07:45,970 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: a young person who doesn't use social media 156 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: and that I think is one concern, there are people 157 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: who are in my generation would probably avoid all of this, 158 00:07:54,490 --> 00:07:56,020 Speaker 1: There's a difference there, 159 00:07:56,030 --> 00:07:58,390 Speaker 2: Maybe I would pose the question to Darryl, What do 160 00:07:58,390 --> 00:08:00,500 Speaker 2: you think as a young person yourself, how much of 161 00:08:00,510 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: an impact as social media has on your mental health? 162 00:08:02,850 --> 00:08:04,590 Speaker 2: You know, the people that you see as part of 163 00:08:04,590 --> 00:08:07,970 Speaker 2: your peer support group, what they're saying about social media, 164 00:08:07,980 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: the sentiments around social media is that it's kind of 165 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,100 Speaker 2: like a double H, 166 00:08:12,940 --> 00:08:14,660 Speaker 2: so there are a lot of positives that go around 167 00:08:14,660 --> 00:08:18,820 Speaker 2: it because social media gives us a voice. We have 168 00:08:18,820 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: seen many local celebrities like Adrian Pang uses instagram account 169 00:08:22,890 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: to have to promote mental awareness, the advances in technology 170 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:33,090 Speaker 2: that allowed for micro sites, right? Ministries. So it really 171 00:08:33,090 --> 00:08:35,380 Speaker 2: draws people in the right, That's why they stay on 172 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:38,260 Speaker 2: social media, there's positive standards when they come back for more. 173 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:40,410 Speaker 2: What are you getting it? Yeah. With the politics of 174 00:08:40,410 --> 00:08:45,060 Speaker 2: so called executives, there's the interconnectedness with social media and 175 00:08:45,059 --> 00:08:48,770 Speaker 2: it's very easy for youths to look at Pierre's. Most 176 00:08:48,770 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 2: of them usually post very positive post like the holiday trip, 177 00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:55,050 Speaker 2: maybe they're good grades, 178 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: there are positive financial gains based on their investment. So 179 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 2: this creates a lot of competition because that's not real life, right? 180 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,250 Speaker 2: That's just like, so there's this disassociation between the social 181 00:09:05,250 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: media rules as well as 182 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:09,370 Speaker 2: reality that most of them face 183 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: because they're young, they're not able to differentiate between these 184 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,830 Speaker 2: worlds and this inflicts a lot of damage on their 185 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: self worth 186 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:21,660 Speaker 2: because like, oh look at my friend, he's going on 187 00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:24,699 Speaker 2: a trip to Korea West. I probably only can like 188 00:09:24,710 --> 00:09:25,849 Speaker 2: go to JB. 189 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 2: I just want to get into another stressor that has 190 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: been thrown around, which is the education system and the 191 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,179 Speaker 2: competition in Singapore for someone who's looking at this from 192 00:09:36,179 --> 00:09:39,180 Speaker 2: the outside, right? I feel like the education system has 193 00:09:39,179 --> 00:09:42,290 Speaker 2: shifted away from a fixation on grades and the scoring 194 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: system from PSC has changed 195 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: what then is behind the stress in schools because I 196 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,460 Speaker 2: also feel that 197 00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:51,890 Speaker 2: with campaigns like life beyond grades, parents coming up to 198 00:09:51,890 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: talk about how they're dealing with PSL the results are 199 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,150 Speaker 2: these shoes just cosmetic then 200 00:09:57,540 --> 00:10:00,260 Speaker 2: the other stresses of academics still there 201 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,900 Speaker 2: Compared to say five years ago. What do you think? Daniel? 202 00:10:02,910 --> 00:10:06,900 Speaker 1: Remember I said needs, that's the one part. But expectations, 203 00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, when I was in school, my parents are 204 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,329 Speaker 1: just glad I was in school 205 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: right now. 206 00:10:10,890 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: You know, today it's a very different story. Parents have expectations. 207 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:19,310 Speaker 1: They spent a lot of time thinking about having Children 208 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: in the first place and not not just leave with 209 00:10:21,290 --> 00:10:22,860 Speaker 1: themselves with cats and dogs, 210 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: they have the child and they want the child to 211 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,579 Speaker 1: do well in this comparative society that is a concern. 212 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: What Daryl says is very reel, what we probably want 213 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: to do and maybe we're trying to think of solutions here. 214 00:10:34,450 --> 00:10:37,290 Speaker 1: I don't have absolute solutions, but one of them is 215 00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:40,260 Speaker 1: obviously the power, you know what you say, the trade off, 216 00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:42,949 Speaker 1: the bad things. But the good thing of social media 217 00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: is really the ability 218 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,250 Speaker 1: to develop online communities that are real that they can 219 00:10:48,250 --> 00:10:51,150 Speaker 1: share and help. We haven't done enough of that in 220 00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: my work. Support groups are very powerful for illnesses and 221 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,550 Speaker 1: people need to hear from others who suffer from the illness. 222 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,940 Speaker 1: Just imagine the power of social media harnessed in that 223 00:11:01,940 --> 00:11:04,650 Speaker 1: way would be able to help people, 224 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: people who say, look, I've had a bad day and 225 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,809 Speaker 1: this is what I did about it, the positive side 226 00:11:08,809 --> 00:11:10,830 Speaker 1: and everybody says, yeah, yeah, that's what I did and 227 00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:14,450 Speaker 1: they come up with solutions, which it's crowdsourcing for help. 228 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,060 Speaker 1: That's the positive side. The bad side, of course it 229 00:11:17,059 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: could spiral into, okay, let's all kill ourselves together. Yeah. 230 00:11:20,850 --> 00:11:22,870 Speaker 1: And that also happens. Is that also your 231 00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:25,579 Speaker 2: take Darryl? Yeah, I agree with the expectations that are 232 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,990 Speaker 2: put onto the youth today thinks could be a little 233 00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:28,650 Speaker 2: too much. 234 00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: Asides from grades, I think for us to be successful, 235 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:35,060 Speaker 2: we are looking at the whole holistic package. 236 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,670 Speaker 2: So asides from good grades, I need to have good position, 237 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:40,260 Speaker 2: micro curriculum activities. 238 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,460 Speaker 2: I need a clock in working hours before I could 239 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: even consider entry level job in most companies today and 240 00:11:47,050 --> 00:11:51,780 Speaker 2: you got to have experience before you experience? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 241 00:11:51,790 --> 00:11:54,940 Speaker 2: There's sort of commitment that goes around with being a 242 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:58,470 Speaker 2: student today. It's not simply just opening up a book 243 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,650 Speaker 2: and committing hours in the library to just 244 00:12:00,740 --> 00:12:04,110 Speaker 2: record to acknowledge. I also need to develop myself as 245 00:12:04,110 --> 00:12:07,900 Speaker 2: a leader to do community service to clock in. You know, 246 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:11,390 Speaker 2: those hours, you know, speaking of academic stress, we wanted 247 00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:13,370 Speaker 2: to talk a little bit also about the River Valley 248 00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:16,370 Speaker 2: High incident. You know, it was something that really shocked 249 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 2: the nation and how would you interpret what happened? Didn't 250 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,770 Speaker 2: come as something that was very shocking. Is it clear 251 00:12:21,770 --> 00:12:25,270 Speaker 2: what the root causes behind the turn of events were 252 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,569 Speaker 2: and you know, why did it take something so drastic 253 00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:30,569 Speaker 2: like this? To really bring the mental health conversation back 254 00:12:30,570 --> 00:12:31,390 Speaker 2: front and center. 255 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,710 Speaker 1: My reaction to the river valley high of course is 256 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,709 Speaker 1: shocked like everyone else. But even before this, we realized 257 00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:42,950 Speaker 1: that there is a certain susceptibility adolescence 258 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,250 Speaker 1: as a stage in life. Some people don't call it 259 00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:47,900 Speaker 1: a stage in some societies you you move from childhood 260 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:51,710 Speaker 1: to adulthood in a ceremony, but in most societies there 261 00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:54,990 Speaker 1: is a period where you're transiting, but what's more important 262 00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:58,380 Speaker 1: is developmentally a young person is trying to find their 263 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:01,309 Speaker 1: place in society. I'm going on a long preamble here 264 00:13:01,309 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: because I think it's important to understand adolescents, it is 265 00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:06,460 Speaker 1: a phase in which 266 00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:09,060 Speaker 1: the young person needs to separate from their family of 267 00:13:09,059 --> 00:13:09,660 Speaker 1: origin 268 00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:14,090 Speaker 1: to find their identity as an individual, but also to 269 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:16,930 Speaker 1: relate to those around them that they were not familiar 270 00:13:16,929 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: with in the past. And that challenge of an adolescent 271 00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:23,550 Speaker 1: is now a bit more complicated because we have a 272 00:13:23,550 --> 00:13:28,270 Speaker 1: global community to contend with. Now if you are susceptible 273 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,650 Speaker 1: and you may have certain risk factors, 274 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:33,900 Speaker 1: mental illness is one of those risk factors. It can 275 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:37,490 Speaker 1: lead you down a very self destructive path. When I 276 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:39,690 Speaker 1: say self destructive, there are two ways of looking at 277 00:13:39,690 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: self destruction, right? You hurt yourself and we see that 278 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: rise today and young people trying to harm themselves and 279 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,689 Speaker 1: they learned this in a community kind of social platform 280 00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: sometimes 281 00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:51,260 Speaker 1: and then 282 00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:55,010 Speaker 1: the other is to harm others. So you either internalize 283 00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:58,550 Speaker 1: your hurt and anger or you externalize it. The root 284 00:13:58,550 --> 00:14:00,929 Speaker 1: causes will come out in due course, you may hear 285 00:14:00,929 --> 00:14:03,250 Speaker 1: about some of those factors, but it is a young 286 00:14:03,250 --> 00:14:07,130 Speaker 1: person struggling in this stage of development, trying to find 287 00:14:07,130 --> 00:14:10,290 Speaker 1: themselves and this is a group that is vulnerable and 288 00:14:10,290 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: we probably need to have ways and means to help them. 289 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: Well, your first thought sterile 290 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:17,150 Speaker 1: when you heard about the incident, 291 00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:18,460 Speaker 2: I I do have 292 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:20,060 Speaker 2: friends that 293 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: studied in river valleys and I do stay quite close 294 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: to the institution. So when the news first appeared 295 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: like Daniel, I was, I was very shocked and 296 00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:35,260 Speaker 2: frankly also be afraid because 297 00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:38,700 Speaker 2: it took so long before we decided to get serious 298 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: about the whole matter of topic and getting schools well 299 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,420 Speaker 2: equipped to deal with mental of conscience before you reach 300 00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,660 Speaker 2: to this extent. 301 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: Was it already something that was brewing? 302 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,660 Speaker 2: I think like what dr dan you mentioned, people 303 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:59,060 Speaker 2: tend to take it upon themselves in the form of 304 00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:01,260 Speaker 2: self harm when it comes to dealing with 305 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,810 Speaker 2: their mental health conditions. You know, Honestly, I have never 306 00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: thought that 307 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,359 Speaker 2: people will actually take it upon someone else. 308 00:15:09,940 --> 00:15:13,450 Speaker 2: Maybe we could see these in situations like bullying, 309 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: where 310 00:15:14,940 --> 00:15:19,060 Speaker 2: someone will want to appear normal or all superior compared 311 00:15:19,060 --> 00:15:22,140 Speaker 2: to other because they feel like there's already um the 312 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:24,190 Speaker 2: stigma is in place onto them, make, making them feel 313 00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:28,210 Speaker 2: lesser than their peers. And so they try to appear 314 00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:30,060 Speaker 2: stronger through the egg of bullying 315 00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:34,119 Speaker 2: but I never would have imagined it to go to 316 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,070 Speaker 2: the extent of taking someone's life. But you mentioned self 317 00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:40,930 Speaker 2: harm does now. Was that something that you've come across 318 00:15:40,930 --> 00:15:43,650 Speaker 2: in the course of your work in peer support 319 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:45,260 Speaker 2: friends you have? 320 00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:48,410 Speaker 2: It's quite sad to say, but it's quite a common 321 00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:52,570 Speaker 2: sight that I see a lot of my friends, even 322 00:15:52,580 --> 00:15:57,050 Speaker 2: my family members, what does self harm look like? You 323 00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: tend to see a lot of battle scars across their 324 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,660 Speaker 2: forearms across their thighs. I've also heard stories of people 325 00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:05,150 Speaker 2: doing it on your chest 326 00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: so that you can always cover up 327 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:09,860 Speaker 2: and you can just lead a longer life 328 00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: every day. We're having to explain it to anybody because 329 00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:16,460 Speaker 2: it's all why do they harm themselves? 330 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,700 Speaker 2: Many use feel that it's a form of releasing. Yeah 331 00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:23,650 Speaker 2: so it's a form of release. 332 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:24,830 Speaker 1: Um There's also a 333 00:16:24,830 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: common misconception that most people that commit self harm actually 334 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,150 Speaker 2: going through depression. But there's a new school of thought 335 00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: that it's actually mostly people that are going through a 336 00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:38,050 Speaker 2: borderline personality disorders, 337 00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:42,290 Speaker 2: they are actually the ones committing self harm. The thought 338 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,470 Speaker 2: is that people with depression, they don't harm themselves 339 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:46,970 Speaker 2: for the release 340 00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:49,660 Speaker 2: but more of the end the suffering. 341 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,490 Speaker 2: I think it's very important I think for us to 342 00:16:56,490 --> 00:17:00,490 Speaker 2: then go into some of the prevailing attitudes when it 343 00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:02,150 Speaker 2: comes to mental health. 344 00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:06,220 Speaker 2: So we did a poll with our instagram followers on C. N. A. 345 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:08,729 Speaker 2: And we're going to read you some of the statements 346 00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:11,010 Speaker 2: that we posed to them and they responded with a 347 00:17:11,010 --> 00:17:13,380 Speaker 2: yes or no. We hope that you give us your reactions. 348 00:17:13,390 --> 00:17:16,270 Speaker 2: So maybe Jamie you can take us through the first one. Alright. 349 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,770 Speaker 2: So um the first statement that we 350 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: asked our instagram followers to basically agree or disagree with 351 00:17:22,369 --> 00:17:22,770 Speaker 2: was 352 00:17:22,940 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: People with mental illness are seen to be unstable dire 353 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,369 Speaker 2: society and actually 68% of the majority answered yes and 354 00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:33,949 Speaker 2: 32 answered no. What are your thoughts on this? 355 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,970 Speaker 1: That depends. You see we see mental illness as this 356 00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 1: 11 illness, it is a multiple group of illnesses. Just 357 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,669 Speaker 1: like if I say physical illness then you think oh 358 00:17:43,670 --> 00:17:48,010 Speaker 1: what's that? Right? It's not just one illness illnesses like 359 00:17:48,010 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: all illnesses when they are untreated, 360 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,850 Speaker 1: they obviously can result in instability of emotions of thoughts 361 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,930 Speaker 1: and of behaviors. That's what mental illnesses are about in 362 00:17:58,930 --> 00:18:01,350 Speaker 1: one sense that is correct. But on the other sense, 363 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,790 Speaker 1: if someone is treated like if you have diabetes and 364 00:18:03,790 --> 00:18:06,540 Speaker 1: you say can you be unstable blood sugar I would 365 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: say yes indeed. But if you took your medications and 366 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,990 Speaker 1: you follow the lifestyle you will be fine. You would 367 00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: have normal. So the same thing would be of mental illness. 368 00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:17,270 Speaker 1: If it is untreated. 369 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,820 Speaker 1: Yes potentially they could you know as I said you 370 00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:22,890 Speaker 1: know their behaviors their feelings and their emotions and thoughts 371 00:18:22,890 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: would all be problematic, 372 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:28,330 Speaker 2: but you see this perception that others have is actually 373 00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:31,190 Speaker 2: something that comes across as a concern for a lot of, 374 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,780 Speaker 2: you know, young people or people in mental health in general. 375 00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:36,470 Speaker 2: They feel that if they are seen as someone who 376 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,770 Speaker 2: has a mental illness because of 377 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,830 Speaker 2: um the reasoning that you stated, which is not wrong, 378 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,129 Speaker 2: like they go and seek help, right? Yeah. Like they 379 00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:46,330 Speaker 2: go and seek help, they will inevitably have this label 380 00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:48,220 Speaker 2: on them and you know, I think a lot of 381 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:51,709 Speaker 2: them are afraid of being judged and being ostracized by 382 00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:55,620 Speaker 2: their families who sometimes just think that there's something wrong 383 00:18:55,619 --> 00:18:57,330 Speaker 2: with them. They don't know how to help this stigma 384 00:18:57,330 --> 00:18:57,949 Speaker 2: also 385 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 2: brings a lot of worries about finding a job. Also, 386 00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:03,470 Speaker 2: something that was mentioned in a video by our grandfather's 387 00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:06,470 Speaker 2: story that I saw someone said who in their right 388 00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: mind would hire someone with mental health issues. 389 00:19:08,609 --> 00:19:10,870 Speaker 1: I'm going to interject here because I think it's important 390 00:19:10,869 --> 00:19:14,010 Speaker 1: to understand the stigma. I think stigma is a very 391 00:19:14,010 --> 00:19:15,050 Speaker 1: powerful thing 392 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: now which is now I spoke about mental illness which 393 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,980 Speaker 1: is a very specific condition that has to be identified 394 00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: and diagnosed. Then. I talk about mental health which is 395 00:19:23,369 --> 00:19:26,580 Speaker 1: quite global dependent on stress. There is a third dimension 396 00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:28,899 Speaker 1: that we must consider. I call it the concept of 397 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: sickness sickness is society's view of a particular illness or 398 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:35,270 Speaker 1: disease 399 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,610 Speaker 1: And society's view is colored by the way that the 400 00:19:39,609 --> 00:19:43,670 Speaker 1: disease presents. Now I give you infectious diseases. One example, 401 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,300 Speaker 1: we are in the middle of a pandemic. The virus 402 00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:50,460 Speaker 1: is Covid 19 or SARS COv two. The virus causes 403 00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:54,060 Speaker 1: an infection. The illness is your experience of that infection 404 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: and it could be as smiled as a fever or 405 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: sore throat and maybe some loss of taste to something severe, 406 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,980 Speaker 1: like a raging pneumonia or even death. That is the illness, 407 00:20:02,990 --> 00:20:05,770 Speaker 1: the experience of the disease in the individual 408 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 1: mental health is affected because of the social environment. But 409 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: what is the sickness of Covid 19? It is society's reaction. 410 00:20:15,170 --> 00:20:18,210 Speaker 1: So society says, oh, these guys are infectious, we've got 411 00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:20,630 Speaker 1: to isolate them, we've got to quarantine them. They've got 412 00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:24,540 Speaker 1: to stay home, notice the same has happened to mental 413 00:20:24,540 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: illnesses as a whole, not just one or two mental illnesses. 414 00:20:28,170 --> 00:20:32,110 Speaker 1: And therefore society views it in a very negative way. 415 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: Why do you think the Institute of Mental Health, previously 416 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,929 Speaker 1: called Woodbridge Hospital is up north? Because it was in 417 00:20:37,930 --> 00:20:42,260 Speaker 1: the jungles of Singapore. In fact, as far as almost 418 00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: like in Malaysia, you know, because I m H will 419 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,060 Speaker 1: be 100 years old in about seven years of time. 420 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: It is so far away from the central part of 421 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,510 Speaker 1: Singapore where, you know, the first hospital was the Singapore 422 00:20:52,510 --> 00:20:54,670 Speaker 1: General hospital and where is that? That's downtown. 423 00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:58,580 Speaker 1: Why is th there because of stigma? Now that stigma 424 00:20:58,580 --> 00:21:02,909 Speaker 1: has rolled on and people have seen the effects of 425 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,419 Speaker 1: mental illness is only in that chronic untreated bill and 426 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:11,060 Speaker 1: an incurable form. We know today that that's no longer true. 427 00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: Mental illnesses can be treated, there is recovery even if 428 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: it's a chronic illnesses like diabetes or hypertension, you need 429 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,980 Speaker 1: to treat it. But the stigma remains, That's number one. 430 00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:23,830 Speaker 1: And that societal stigma is a lot better now with 431 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:27,330 Speaker 1: young people. What we don't have a good candle on 432 00:21:27,330 --> 00:21:28,670 Speaker 1: is what I call self stigma. 433 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,660 Speaker 1: This is the part where people projects what will happen 434 00:21:32,660 --> 00:21:34,870 Speaker 1: to their lives. Will I find a job where people 435 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,660 Speaker 1: accept me and in young people, we've done a survey, 436 00:21:37,670 --> 00:21:40,060 Speaker 1: this is a national survey on stigma. We have a 437 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: new one that's going to come out soon, but the 438 00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:42,490 Speaker 1: old one, 439 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,700 Speaker 1: It was done in 2014 actually suggested that for young people, 440 00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: their reaction is I will help others, but I have 441 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,409 Speaker 1: the illness. I'm not going to seek help or I 442 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:52,420 Speaker 1: will try to delay 443 00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:53,230 Speaker 2: because of 444 00:21:53,230 --> 00:21:57,010 Speaker 1: self stigma. Because there is this concern still that this 445 00:21:57,020 --> 00:22:01,470 Speaker 1: illness is as some of your surveys have suggested unstable 446 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,950 Speaker 1: bad people and because of that, 447 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,290 Speaker 1: that's this misunderstanding. And so what we need today is 448 00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: young people to come out and tell people look, I've 449 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: had a mental illness, I'm a psychiatrist. I rarely have 450 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,770 Speaker 1: people say Dr Fang, my psychiatrist, you will be probably declaring, 451 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, hi Darryl, my cardiologist or Hi Jamie, my oncologist. 452 00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:26,950 Speaker 1: But it's rare to say Dr Daniel Fang. He's my psychiatrist. 453 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: Why? People are just scared, just scared of being judged. 454 00:22:30,210 --> 00:22:32,450 Speaker 2: It is important for more than to come out, right 455 00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:34,860 Speaker 2: and speak about this. But how do we give them 456 00:22:34,859 --> 00:22:36,869 Speaker 2: the courage to do? So what's your counsel to 457 00:22:36,869 --> 00:22:39,970 Speaker 1: them? Yeah. So, well, we have a few programs. We 458 00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:43,350 Speaker 1: have a peer support specialist program that we train. We 459 00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: use the word Pierre 460 00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: to describe people with lived experience, people who have had 461 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: experiences of mental illness and recovered from it recovered doesn't 462 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: mean that you're cured. 463 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,530 Speaker 1: It just means that you are now stable and you're 464 00:22:53,530 --> 00:22:56,410 Speaker 1: able to share your story. And there is a national 465 00:22:56,410 --> 00:22:59,780 Speaker 1: campaign led by the National Council Social Services called beyond 466 00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: the label where these stories are being shared. I think 467 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: we need more people. I think someone mentioned Adrian Pang right, 468 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,940 Speaker 1: He's my classmate by the way, he was. He came 469 00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:10,669 Speaker 1: out and talked about his illness. Right? 470 00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:13,699 Speaker 1: So I think that's very powerful and I think we 471 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: need more of that. We need celebrities, we need politicians, 472 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,770 Speaker 1: We need people in high places to say 473 00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: I've had a mental illness and it's recoverable. That will change. 474 00:23:22,490 --> 00:23:25,060 Speaker 1: I think some of that thinking and for young people, 475 00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: I think that the recovery examples are powerful. I don't know, Darryl, 476 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:28,659 Speaker 1: what do you think? 477 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:29,450 Speaker 1: I 478 00:23:29,450 --> 00:23:31,710 Speaker 2: agree with you? I have a few of my friends, 479 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,830 Speaker 2: including some in my my peer support group that have 480 00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:39,590 Speaker 2: gone through personal mental conditions themselves and they are using 481 00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:43,670 Speaker 2: themselves as an example for others to stand up for 482 00:23:43,670 --> 00:23:47,370 Speaker 2: the conditions that they're currently facing not to see as 483 00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:48,859 Speaker 2: their lessons as a person, 484 00:23:49,140 --> 00:23:51,859 Speaker 2: but to share that it's a condition that 485 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,300 Speaker 2: we are becoming more accepting of and that we should, 486 00:23:55,310 --> 00:23:58,390 Speaker 2: you know, look, reach out and seek the cure and 487 00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:58,770 Speaker 2: help 488 00:23:59,140 --> 00:24:01,810 Speaker 2: that we require so that we can get back on 489 00:24:01,810 --> 00:24:02,350 Speaker 2: our feet. 490 00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: But cure is a hard word because it reminds you 491 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,750 Speaker 1: that you can be completely well, majority of the most 492 00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:13,580 Speaker 1: severe mental illnesses are in fact what I call chronic 493 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:16,970 Speaker 1: illness like diabetes, like diabetes and hypertension. You you probably 494 00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: need treatment longer term. We'd love to have the magic pill, 495 00:24:20,850 --> 00:24:24,710 Speaker 1: but that's a very illness pasting anyway. You know, take 496 00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: the pill and you'll be cured. I think you need 497 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: to think about long term condition or chronic conditions and 498 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,220 Speaker 1: just learn recovery. Recovery means you you can still do 499 00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:35,910 Speaker 1: many of the things you have some restrictions in, you know, 500 00:24:35,910 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: like maybe your stress levels that you should take the 501 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,150 Speaker 1: kind of work that you would go into and stuff 502 00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: like that. But like diabetes, like, you know, you don't 503 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,730 Speaker 1: take so much sugary stuff, it doesn't mean you can't 504 00:24:45,730 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: take it, but you have to be a bit more careful. Hmm. 505 00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:50,950 Speaker 1: I want to move into the next statement. The next 506 00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:53,850 Speaker 1: statement that we posed to our instagram followers was 507 00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: mental health was discussed at home when I was growing 508 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,169 Speaker 2: up 509 00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:01,780 Speaker 2: And 88% said No. So Daryl, do you want to 510 00:25:01,780 --> 00:25:04,770 Speaker 2: give me your reaction to that? Oh, yes, I think 511 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:07,750 Speaker 2: I can contribute to that pole. Yeah. And serve you know, 512 00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:12,179 Speaker 2: as well. Um, it was never brought up, but unfortunately 513 00:25:12,190 --> 00:25:15,190 Speaker 2: the topic came into the family household a few years 514 00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:18,060 Speaker 2: ago because my sister was diagnosed 515 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,210 Speaker 2: with depression and despite being diagnosed by her qualified professional, 516 00:25:23,220 --> 00:25:27,570 Speaker 2: my father was still unrelated, except that she was going 517 00:25:27,570 --> 00:25:29,060 Speaker 2: through such a condition himself. 518 00:25:29,540 --> 00:25:30,670 Speaker 2: This is 519 00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:34,170 Speaker 2: a potential issue that we face in Singapore, 520 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,300 Speaker 2: where the older generation, I'm not willing to accept that 521 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,109 Speaker 2: mental health conditions are real. Yeah, there's this generation gap, right? 522 00:25:43,109 --> 00:25:46,330 Speaker 2: Like the older generation find it harder to understand. Yes. 523 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: So my father, he personally viewed it as 524 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,590 Speaker 2: a face where she was just going through, oh, it's 525 00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:57,990 Speaker 2: okay to, you know, feel sad sometimes, you know, you 526 00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:01,140 Speaker 2: get better, You just need to sleep more, eat well, 527 00:26:01,150 --> 00:26:03,260 Speaker 2: you'll snap out of it. Yeah, you snap out of it. 528 00:26:03,740 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: So Daniel, what's your advice to parents, do you see 529 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: that parents have difficulty dealing with it when their kids 530 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: come to them with mental health challenges and what's your counsel? 531 00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: We need to have a deeper awareness and what I 532 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,350 Speaker 1: call literacy on mental health and I think it starts 533 00:26:20,350 --> 00:26:22,980 Speaker 1: with the families, we used to use the word psycho education, 534 00:26:22,990 --> 00:26:25,730 Speaker 1: you know, we need our psycho education sounds not very nice. 535 00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:28,090 Speaker 1: I think we just have to create literacy just like 536 00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:29,270 Speaker 1: we have health literacy. 537 00:26:29,740 --> 00:26:32,010 Speaker 1: Once you have literacy, then you can look at for 538 00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: knowledge that is useful how to help appraise all that 539 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: knowledge and I can't help but think about how vaccinations 540 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: are such an issue today because people don't have literacy 541 00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: and health literacy is so important and mental health literacy 542 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: is important. 543 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:51,710 Speaker 1: So we need to educate people to understand that this 544 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,260 Speaker 1: is in the form of illness, it's very understandable. Unfortunately, 545 00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:58,820 Speaker 1: our societies have divorced in a way, the body from 546 00:26:58,820 --> 00:27:03,590 Speaker 1: the head and therefore the mental illnesses unfortunately had that 547 00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: bad stigma. It's not entirely true. When I was young, 548 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,540 Speaker 1: people talked about going to the shocking, you know, the 549 00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:13,410 Speaker 1: crazy hospital or mental house and that stigmatizes it's like 550 00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: if you're not going to send you to the mental 551 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,330 Speaker 1: hospital and that unfortunately has stuck to a lot of 552 00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:21,980 Speaker 1: people is this is a bad place, It's almost like 553 00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:26,060 Speaker 1: prison and that is also true of us in mental health, 554 00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:29,500 Speaker 1: my MPH has got a hospital that is locked up, 555 00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: it's a secure hospital 556 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,469 Speaker 1: now, why should that be if you have an illness, 557 00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:35,340 Speaker 1: why do we need to lock up? So internally we 558 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:37,170 Speaker 1: need to change our systems as well. 559 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: And this is important because even amongst professionals and you 560 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,500 Speaker 1: can talk to doctors, the same thing might actually occur right? 561 00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:47,670 Speaker 1: These are clinicians who understand illnesses 562 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,889 Speaker 1: have the same stigma. When I chose to do psychiatry, 563 00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:53,670 Speaker 1: I was laughed at not because of anything, but because, 564 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: well, you know, why would you want to do that? Right. 565 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:58,390 Speaker 1: So Jamie 566 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:01,670 Speaker 2: has a question about what's your counsel to people 567 00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:06,650 Speaker 2: who are the receiving end of those words going back 568 00:28:06,650 --> 00:28:09,130 Speaker 2: to generation gap. You know, oftentimes a term that comes 569 00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:12,630 Speaker 2: up to describe my generation is the term snowflake or 570 00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: maybe you've heard of strawberry generation basically to say that 571 00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:18,930 Speaker 2: we are mentally weaker as compared to our parents generation. 572 00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:19,670 Speaker 2: And 573 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:21,670 Speaker 2: you know, we always use mental health as an excuse 574 00:28:21,670 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: for everything wrong with life, how should 575 00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:25,260 Speaker 2: young people respond to that? 576 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,609 Speaker 1: The generation gap existed for time immemorial. It is part 577 00:28:29,619 --> 00:28:33,060 Speaker 1: of life. There is always a difference between the young 578 00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: and as they grow and the more senior members of family. 579 00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: I think it's helpful to be respectful even as you react. 580 00:28:40,410 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: I don't think adolescence is a period of great animosity 581 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,170 Speaker 1: between family members that may occur in a small percentage 582 00:28:47,170 --> 00:28:48,350 Speaker 1: of families, but 583 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: but most young people want to be respectful of their 584 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,220 Speaker 1: seniors in the family and their parents and two, it's 585 00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:57,340 Speaker 1: a question of how you communicated if you communicate it 586 00:28:57,340 --> 00:28:59,210 Speaker 1: in a very angry way, it is likely that that 587 00:28:59,210 --> 00:29:01,979 Speaker 1: does that get. But maybe some of the things for 588 00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:04,580 Speaker 1: young people is not to, for them to tell their 589 00:29:04,580 --> 00:29:07,260 Speaker 1: parents directly in the face and also speak to their 590 00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:08,170 Speaker 1: peers first 591 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,370 Speaker 1: as a start, not everything needs to be told to 592 00:29:10,370 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: parents because when I tell parents 593 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,410 Speaker 1: is that don't invade the privacy unnecessarily in the young 594 00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: person because they want their privacy. You know, I I 595 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,300 Speaker 1: used to put my kids and I have five, right? 596 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:23,820 Speaker 1: They're all grown up five, they're not teenagers anymore, but 597 00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: we put them in a big room now, it's very practical, 598 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,660 Speaker 1: I mean for a number of reasons, 599 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,450 Speaker 1: but as they grow up, they wanted their space and so, 600 00:29:32,450 --> 00:29:36,170 Speaker 1: you know, just creating that structure around privacy is very important. 601 00:29:36,340 --> 00:29:39,380 Speaker 1: Young people deserve that privacy so they need to help 602 00:29:39,390 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: their parents understand. So it's two parts, you know, as 603 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: we teach parents to parent their teens, we have to 604 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,380 Speaker 1: teach teens to better 605 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:47,500 Speaker 2: understand the parents of 606 00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:49,050 Speaker 1: teen. The parents. 607 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,229 Speaker 2: Next statement, in which 61% disagreed with that. When we 608 00:29:56,230 --> 00:30:00,660 Speaker 2: asked them, do you trust school counselors and mental health professionals? 61% 609 00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:03,620 Speaker 2: said no. You know, dr fang school counselors are the 610 00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:06,090 Speaker 2: first line responders, you know, who make or break what 611 00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:09,180 Speaker 2: kids do next in these situations. How would you advise 612 00:30:09,180 --> 00:30:10,060 Speaker 2: approaching one? 613 00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:12,170 Speaker 2: And what sort of questions should you 614 00:30:12,340 --> 00:30:15,870 Speaker 2: Needing mental health be asking? Are you surprised by 61 615 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: saying no to school counselor? I'm not surprised. School counselors 616 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: are seen as, you know, sort of part of the 617 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,130 Speaker 1: school authorities. So they are the adult population. It's a 618 00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: different group. Right? It's not surprising over the years I 619 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,930 Speaker 1: was involved in this process of having schools working with 620 00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: counselors and working with them. 621 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: We have a program that goes right through that school counselor. 622 00:30:34,090 --> 00:30:37,660 Speaker 1: So you get access to mental health services directly through 623 00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:40,590 Speaker 1: school counselors. I would love that flow. But young people 624 00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:41,060 Speaker 1: need 625 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,090 Speaker 1: different options. And today particularly in this very digitally connected world, 626 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:49,030 Speaker 1: people want to be able to find information for themselves 627 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,630 Speaker 1: when I was young. I yearn for the encyclopedia Britannica. 628 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,500 Speaker 1: I told my dad please get me one you know 629 00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:56,500 Speaker 1: and he said well that's really expensive. How about you 630 00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,060 Speaker 1: study really hard 631 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,770 Speaker 1: today? The encyclopedia Britannica like Wikipedia is online, it's free 632 00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:05,390 Speaker 1: and it's available there's access to information. Young people want 633 00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: to start there 634 00:31:06,340 --> 00:31:09,270 Speaker 1: so get information online. But dr google is not the 635 00:31:09,270 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: best doctor because there's a lot of fake news then 636 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,150 Speaker 1: they need some kind of help and support if school 637 00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:17,990 Speaker 1: counselors see themselves more like coaches. I think it makes 638 00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:20,900 Speaker 1: a lot better the World Council and you know it's 639 00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: an old concept so we probably have to do a 640 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,060 Speaker 1: bit of shifts there. I don't think that 641 00:31:25,140 --> 00:31:27,380 Speaker 1: school counselors, bad thing they are good to be there 642 00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:30,090 Speaker 1: and and it's important to have school counselors in schools 643 00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:30,660 Speaker 1: because that 644 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: There is excess but also offer other opportunities for young 645 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,530 Speaker 1: people to seek help. So that there is a whole 646 00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:39,510 Speaker 1: host remember there's still 40% that would seek help from 647 00:31:39,510 --> 00:31:41,420 Speaker 1: the school counselors which is not too bad. Are 648 00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:46,890 Speaker 2: You surprised? Daryl 61%, 60 when Jamie mentioned 61%. Yeah, 649 00:31:46,890 --> 00:31:47,770 Speaker 2: I was actually shocked 650 00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:51,780 Speaker 2: because I thought that because they are qualified, they have 651 00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:55,170 Speaker 2: went through the terms and all people would be, 652 00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:57,950 Speaker 2: you know, I have more confidence in the mental health 653 00:31:57,950 --> 00:32:01,090 Speaker 2: support system. But as dr Daniel was speaking I had 654 00:32:01,090 --> 00:32:03,970 Speaker 2: some time to ponder and then I realized, okay, actually 655 00:32:03,980 --> 00:32:06,460 Speaker 2: maybe not so shocking anymore 656 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,490 Speaker 2: because when I was going through my life as a 657 00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:12,170 Speaker 2: student actually realized that 658 00:32:12,540 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: most teachers actually use the counselors as a form of punishment. 659 00:32:16,570 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: Like if I were to misbehave, I'm doing the same 660 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,940 Speaker 2: to the counselor. I think it's quite common 661 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:26,420 Speaker 1: discipline master. I 662 00:32:26,430 --> 00:32:28,130 Speaker 2: don't know why I did that. Why did you miss 663 00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: me master become the counselor? So there has been a 664 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 2: negative association with misbehavior and the counselor and it's always 665 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 2: seen as a punishment to visit the council, the school counselor. 666 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,100 Speaker 1: I see. 667 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. So maybe that's why the use so against one 668 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: thing I actually like to see is actually singaporeans becoming 669 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,180 Speaker 2: more open to seeing counselors not only when they have 670 00:32:50,180 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: an issue, but you know, just to walk in to 671 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:54,830 Speaker 2: get a check where they're at right now with their 672 00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:55,670 Speaker 2: mental health 673 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: or just to speak doesn't mean you have issue. Then 674 00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,260 Speaker 2: you go to the counselor 675 00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:01,910 Speaker 1: that's a very good point. I think. Perhaps there's a 676 00:33:01,910 --> 00:33:05,390 Speaker 1: way to sort of re look at how counseling is that. 677 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: Perhaps the reason why there's a link with discipline is 678 00:33:09,450 --> 00:33:13,470 Speaker 1: because discipline counseling has always been in one concept of 679 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,540 Speaker 1: pastoral care for schools and maybe there is a bit 680 00:33:16,540 --> 00:33:18,860 Speaker 1: of a history behind it, but you're right, it should 681 00:33:18,860 --> 00:33:21,860 Speaker 1: be separated. In fact, maybe we should call it coaches 682 00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:25,330 Speaker 1: and some kind of help system and maybe the council 683 00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: should exist in the ecosystem where there's also help lines 684 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,030 Speaker 1: and all that within the school system, whether it's a 685 00:33:31,030 --> 00:33:34,510 Speaker 1: chat or something before you physically see someone and where 686 00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: you trust the counselor and it is not a discipline 687 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:37,860 Speaker 1: type issue 688 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: because counseling can be for discipline issues right in that sense, 689 00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:42,870 Speaker 1: I 690 00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:45,530 Speaker 2: think we should run off this podcast. Um Jamie has 691 00:33:45,530 --> 00:33:47,740 Speaker 2: the last question for both of you. So since we're 692 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:50,270 Speaker 2: on the topic of you know, normalizing this mental health 693 00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: conversation and counseling to what extent will normalizing conversations around 694 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,390 Speaker 2: mental health moved people to seek help because it is 695 00:33:57,390 --> 00:33:58,060 Speaker 2: evident that 696 00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who need help, but 697 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,550 Speaker 2: they're not seeking it. 698 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,310 Speaker 2: And what advice do you have for such spaces to 699 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: be constructive, such that people can live with a sense 700 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,540 Speaker 2: of hope about their situation and how to deal with 701 00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: because this really strikes me when we talk about conversations, 702 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: it need not be about mental illness, it can just 703 00:34:15,610 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: be about mental health, 704 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,629 Speaker 1: that's why mental health is more powerful as a way 705 00:34:19,630 --> 00:34:21,850 Speaker 1: to reach out to everybody to tell them that, 706 00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:24,650 Speaker 1: you know, our well being is important. Part of mental 707 00:34:24,650 --> 00:34:27,110 Speaker 1: health is of course affected by illness. When you seek 708 00:34:27,110 --> 00:34:29,529 Speaker 1: a professional, they will help you to tease out between 709 00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: an illness and a health type issue. Just imagine mental 710 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: health is is very much like your brain dealing with 711 00:34:36,850 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: the stresses of life. It is equipped, it's fully developed 712 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:40,859 Speaker 1: to do that 713 00:34:40,940 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: very much like how your body is equipped to deal 714 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,669 Speaker 1: with viruses and bacteria that come into 715 00:34:45,739 --> 00:34:48,390 Speaker 1: contact. We do that on a daily basis. We have 716 00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: lots of bacteria, viruses out there that our body is 717 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: able to deal with. And that's how our brain deals 718 00:34:53,930 --> 00:34:57,850 Speaker 1: with health stresses that we will face on a daily basis. 719 00:34:57,860 --> 00:35:01,620 Speaker 1: I couldn't find this this room, I lost my keys. 720 00:35:01,630 --> 00:35:04,379 Speaker 1: You know, I have an exam to take these as 721 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:06,050 Speaker 1: normal stresses your brain can take. 722 00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: And we have to talk about that in that sense. 723 00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: It's about brain health, right? And you have to keep 724 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,790 Speaker 1: your brain healthy. How do you do that, right? You 725 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: keep yourself healthy, you make sure that you exercise your 726 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,660 Speaker 1: brain as much as you exercise your body. There are 727 00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:21,660 Speaker 1: ways to do this and and that's the normal conversation 728 00:35:21,660 --> 00:35:24,589 Speaker 1: that we have very much that if you eat well 729 00:35:24,590 --> 00:35:27,469 Speaker 1: and you have physical exercise, do that for your brain 730 00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: and then your brain will look after you in the 731 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,370 Speaker 1: normal stresses of life when the stresses become too great, 732 00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:36,930 Speaker 1: that's when external help, like a counselor or even the 733 00:35:36,930 --> 00:35:40,020 Speaker 1: teachers somewhat trusted adult that you can talk to and 734 00:35:40,020 --> 00:35:42,150 Speaker 1: it would be those conversations that you want to have 735 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: and then your brain still kicks into place with that 736 00:35:44,969 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: additional help 737 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,540 Speaker 1: and all these are not illnesses, illnesses are much more severe, 738 00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: like going 739 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,670 Speaker 2: to exercise on your own versus getting a fitness instructor. 740 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:53,890 Speaker 1: Exactly. Here is 741 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:56,460 Speaker 2: actually something that interested me that you mentioned was about 742 00:35:56,469 --> 00:35:59,410 Speaker 2: exercising your brain, like we exercise our physical health right? 743 00:35:59,410 --> 00:36:01,529 Speaker 2: Like people often talk about taking care of them, their 744 00:36:01,530 --> 00:36:02,540 Speaker 2: body physically, but 745 00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:05,339 Speaker 2: no one ever really talks about practices we should do 746 00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:07,540 Speaker 2: to take care of our mental health. Do you have 747 00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,779 Speaker 2: any in mind that people should practice? 748 00:36:09,790 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: The terminology is mindfulness practices? So mindfulness meditation is one 749 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,010 Speaker 1: aspect of it. Learning to relax. Learning to find time 750 00:36:20,020 --> 00:36:22,250 Speaker 1: to do activities that you enjoy. 751 00:36:22,330 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: In fact this year's world, mental Health day, we've been 752 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,100 Speaker 1: advising people to find things to do, right, that they 753 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:31,350 Speaker 1: can have space for themselves and take time to do that. 754 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: And everyone has to set aside that time. If you 755 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,780 Speaker 1: are willing to set aside 30 minutes, young people do 756 00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:39,270 Speaker 1: this a lot right to do the exercises to do 757 00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:42,460 Speaker 1: their fitness. Why not spend 30 minutes of your time 758 00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:46,330 Speaker 1: meditating, Thinking about things that are important to you reading this, 759 00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:49,550 Speaker 1: you know a book that you do. You like listening 760 00:36:49,550 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: to the music you enjoy and and just 761 00:36:52,030 --> 00:36:54,990 Speaker 1: chill you know I mean that is exercising your brain 762 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,450 Speaker 2: how darrell take us home any parting shots, what are 763 00:36:57,450 --> 00:36:59,860 Speaker 2: things that you know you would recommend to your friends 764 00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:01,780 Speaker 2: and your peer support group like to take care of 765 00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:04,020 Speaker 2: their mental health better? I think the keyword that we 766 00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 2: always uses self care. 767 00:37:05,530 --> 00:37:07,669 Speaker 2: So like what doctor did you mentioned, I think it's 768 00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:09,460 Speaker 2: about dedicating time, 769 00:37:10,030 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 2: Take breaks away from stresses. Like if most of your 770 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,299 Speaker 2: stress is coming from work via telecommunication so maybe dedicate 771 00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:22,110 Speaker 2: 30 minutes away from your phone away from your laptops 772 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,660 Speaker 2: and then if maybe you find enjoyment in being with nature, 773 00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 2: maybe just taking a nap, do that but 774 00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 2: deliberately do it 775 00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:35,290 Speaker 2: And not just okay, I can always sleep at 12 776 00:37:35,290 --> 00:37:38,210 Speaker 2: which is my usual time. That's not really accepted that 777 00:37:38,219 --> 00:37:39,750 Speaker 2: there is a part and parcel of what you need 778 00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:41,049 Speaker 2: to do to stay alive. 779 00:37:41,530 --> 00:37:44,060 Speaker 2: So it's about putting in deliberate care to really look 780 00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:49,509 Speaker 2: after yourself. Yes. Yeah, that was dr Daniel Fang and 781 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,750 Speaker 2: they're also for everyone out there struggling with a personal 782 00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:56,740 Speaker 2: issue or a mental health condition, please remember you're not alone. 783 00:37:56,750 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: Help is just a call away Institute of mental Health 784 00:38:00,250 --> 00:38:01,540 Speaker 2: Mental Health Hotline 785 00:38:01,730 --> 00:38:06,290 Speaker 2: is 6389 to 2 to two. And the Samaritans of 786 00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:12,510 Speaker 2: Singapore hotline is 1 802 214444. And lastly, the Singapore 787 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: Association of Mental Health Hotline is 1, 802 83701 night. 788 00:38:19,130 --> 00:38:20,100 Speaker 2: This has been the heart of the 789 00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:21,500 Speaker 1: matter. If you like this 790 00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 2: episode. You want to hear the other three in our 791 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,870 Speaker 2: series on race in Singapore, Finding your first job and 792 00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:30,529 Speaker 2: climate action. I'm Jamie Hang and I'm canceling signing off 793 00:38:30,530 --> 00:38:33,540 Speaker 2: until we meet again next week. Credit for this episode 794 00:38:33,540 --> 00:38:36,890 Speaker 2: goes to Christina robert, our podcast editor, Erin Low, our 795 00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 2: research writer and Ethan pour our intern.