WEBVTT - How nuclear may be a larger factor in the clean energy equation

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a CNA podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>27 June 1954, the world's first nuclear power station came

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<v Speaker 1>online in the Russian city of Obninsk, 100 kilometers southwest

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<v Speaker 1>of Moscow. Connected to the capital's grid, this power plant

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<v Speaker 1>launched a new era in electricity production.

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<v Speaker 1>Today there are about 440 nuclear power reactors operating in

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<v Speaker 1>more than 30 countries, providing about 9% of the world's electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>Singapore is looking at whether it would make sense to

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<v Speaker 1>join that nuclear club. Hello everyone, I'm Lee Ling Tan,

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you for joining me on Climate Conversations. My co-host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jack Board is on assignment or on holiday, who knows,

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<v Speaker 1>but that means you're stuck with me.

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<v Speaker 1>And today, the topic goes nuclear. The Singapore government recently

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<v Speaker 1>announced that it will study the potential deployment of nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>power in the island state and see if this is

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<v Speaker 1>an energy solution that the country can deploy in a

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<v Speaker 1>safe and cost effective way.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an exciting announcement in an exciting time for nuclear power.

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<v Speaker 1>Recent advancements in small modular reactors or SMRs could be

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<v Speaker 1>a game changer. They're said to be smaller, more scalable,

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<v Speaker 1>and safer than conventional nuclear plants.

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<v Speaker 1>To better understand the pros and cons of advanced nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>energy and what it could mean for Singapore and the region,

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<v Speaker 1>I spoke with Doctor Alvin Chew, senior fellow at the

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<v Speaker 1>S Rajaratnam School of International Studies at the Nanyang Technological University.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor, thank you for joining us on Climate Conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>So Alvin, we're talking about the possibility now of a

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear power plant right here at home in Singapore on

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<v Speaker 1>this tiny land constrained, densely populated island state. What's made

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<v Speaker 1>something that was historically impossible for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Now quite plausible.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, nuclear energy is a clean source of energy. What

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<v Speaker 2>it means is that it does not actually emit any

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<v Speaker 2>carbon dioxide or greenhouse gasses in this process of producing electricity.

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<v Speaker 2>But when one looks at Singapore's energy mix, probably more

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<v Speaker 2>than 95% of our electricity is produced from the burning

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<v Speaker 2>of natural gas.

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<v Speaker 2>And for that, it's very pollutive. So we actually solve

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<v Speaker 2>this clean energy equation by having renewables, but then solar

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<v Speaker 2>power is probably the only viable renewable in Singapore. We

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<v Speaker 2>are looking at probably about 10% of our electricity coming

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<v Speaker 2>from solar by 2050 and when we can only accommodate

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<v Speaker 2>like 10%.

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<v Speaker 2>And we are trying to import electricity from our neighbors

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<v Speaker 2>for about 40%. We still need to take up about 50%

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<v Speaker 2>of them running on natural gas because we are so

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<v Speaker 2>reliant on our gas imports that we actually need to

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<v Speaker 2>build more resilience and that we need to actually generate

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<v Speaker 2>some of our sources in order to produce electricity and

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<v Speaker 2>that's where nuclear actually comes in.

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<v Speaker 1>For

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<v Speaker 2>the

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<v Speaker 1>longest time, we rolled it out because nuclear plants require

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<v Speaker 1>so much land, so much investment.

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<v Speaker 1>But now it's become plausible because of advancements, especially around

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<v Speaker 1>the small modular reactors, right? So in terms of Singapore's

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<v Speaker 1>decision to further study the viability of deploying nuclear energy here,

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<v Speaker 1>how big of a role do these SMRs actually play?

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<v Speaker 2>I think in 2008.

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<v Speaker 2>Later minister mentor actually came out and mooted the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of Singapore deploying nuclear energy. So it wasn't something that

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<v Speaker 2>is new. And at the time, we didn't even think

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<v Speaker 2>of SMRSs. But the question remains is that where are

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<v Speaker 2>we going to site the nuclear power plant.

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<v Speaker 1>That's

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<v Speaker 1>a big question.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so obviously technological advancements in terms of SMRs has

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<v Speaker 2>Actually helped to open up the possibilities of Singapore, siting

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<v Speaker 2>a nuclear power plants on this tiny island, mainly because

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<v Speaker 2>they are made smaller and they are also safer. The

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<v Speaker 2>newer technologies will not incorporate that kind of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what's going to happen to a catastrophic failure, what we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to see in Chernobyl or in Fukushima case. But

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<v Speaker 2>despite having all these technological advancement, we cannot say and

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<v Speaker 2>no one can say that it is risk-free.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. You mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>it in a commentary recently that Singapore is learning from

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<v Speaker 1>the International Atomic Energy Agency about how to respond.

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<v Speaker 1>To a nuclear emergency and protect population from radiation fallout, right?

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<v Speaker 1>What does that entail? What kind of learning, what kind

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<v Speaker 1>of prep are we talking about? I mean, is the

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<v Speaker 1>preparation for worst case scenario, what's involved in those discussions?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, if you understand that all these kind of guidelines

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<v Speaker 2>that are actually drawn out, you know, the safety parameters

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<v Speaker 2>are all actually applicable to existing reactors, and these are

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<v Speaker 2>reactors that are currently in operation, the Gen 2, Gen

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<v Speaker 2>3 and Gen plus light water reactors.

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<v Speaker 2>They are the large ones. They have not developed the

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<v Speaker 2>planning parameters for small modular reactors yet, but they are

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<v Speaker 2>in the process of developing and when that is coming

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<v Speaker 2>out in a couple of years' time, because some of

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<v Speaker 2>these SMRRs are going to be rolled out soon, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's likely going to be a much smaller planning parameter

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<v Speaker 2>and that actually opens up the option for uh Singapore

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<v Speaker 2>to actually consider setting a nuclear power plant. But that

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<v Speaker 2>is only on the planning side.

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<v Speaker 2>Because you need to have like a guideline to say

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<v Speaker 2>that well, apart from let's say 30 kilometer zone, now

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<v Speaker 2>you're you're just going to be like restricted to the

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<v Speaker 2>zone parameter of the nuclear power plant and that's all. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>there are some countries who don't have the luxury, not

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<v Speaker 2>just Singapore, who doesn't have the luxury to actually, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>evacuate within the 30 kilometer zone, but if we will

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<v Speaker 2>ask ourselves carefully, what

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<v Speaker 2>Entails the nuclear fallout. What are some of the effects?

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<v Speaker 2>Why do we need to evacuate when there's a radiation

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<v Speaker 2>fallout from the nuclear power plant? You know, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>going to be like a bomb exploding or what we

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<v Speaker 2>see in the Hiroshima, and also it's not going to

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<v Speaker 2>be the same as in the Fukushima incident as well,

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<v Speaker 2>because of the tsunami, people need to evacuate.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when we ask ourselves, we don't even have a

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<v Speaker 2>place to evacuate and basically, we have to go and

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<v Speaker 2>protect ourselves and the best protection is actually to stay indoors. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So when our authorities go and interact with the IEA

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<v Speaker 2>we are just trying to find out some of the

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<v Speaker 2>measures even for existing nuclear technology that is ongoing. How

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<v Speaker 2>are we going to respond?

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<v Speaker 2>Eventually, we might not adopt an SMRR because they are

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<v Speaker 2>not really, they don't have that kind of track record

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<v Speaker 2>to understand the safety principles. Yeah. So having the abilities

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<v Speaker 2>or the capabilities or the competence to actually respond to

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<v Speaker 2>a disaster is more important.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, if we haven't got that capability, I think

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<v Speaker 2>no matter how advanced or the SMRS technology are, we

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<v Speaker 2>will not make it the kind of decision because safety

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<v Speaker 2>is of primal importance.

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<v Speaker 1>So we talked about the worst case scenario already. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the best case scenario. So let's just say

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<v Speaker 1>we find that this is viable. Where would this, you

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<v Speaker 1>know where I'm going with this.

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<v Speaker 1>Where do you think the options are to place this plant?

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<v Speaker 1>Are we talking about multiple SMRs? Are we talking about one,

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<v Speaker 1>are we what are we talking about? What is it

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<v Speaker 1>gonna look like? I mean, portable, you know, integratable can

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<v Speaker 1>be prefabed almost, right? That's pretty much what it is.

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<v Speaker 1>What's it going to look like and where?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh, you're asking me where to cite them, right? Yeah. Uh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, uh, it's I think really a problem. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you want the technical answer to it or you want

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<v Speaker 2>the social or political answer to it? OK,

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<v Speaker 1>so technical.

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<v Speaker 2>OK, so you have to conduct sightings feasibility studies to

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<v Speaker 2>ensure where to cite them. Technically, the ground has got

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<v Speaker 2>to be stable.

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<v Speaker 2>Alright, OK, so I mean Singapore, we are not stable.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not yeah, yeah. I mean, even if we are

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<v Speaker 2>just like Japan is full of earthquakes, but the reactors

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<v Speaker 2>can actually be designed to withstand the resistance can be

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<v Speaker 2>designed to withstand an earthquake. So basically, when you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about siding in Singapore, it's not so much of a

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<v Speaker 2>technical issue, it's more of a Social issue. Yeah, yeah, way, uh, no,

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<v Speaker 2>if I said a nuclear power plant on the western

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<v Speaker 2>part of Singapore.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying where it's going to affect the entire Singapore.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter where I cite them, yeah, I saw

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<v Speaker 2>them in the Jurong is going to affect uh places

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<v Speaker 2>in China. If an incident were to happen. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the most important thing is how do we know we

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<v Speaker 2>are going to respond to it? Yeah, and if we

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<v Speaker 2>are able to respond to it, it doesn't matter where

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<v Speaker 2>we sit down.

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<v Speaker 1>Sitting on the mainland is not out of the question.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 2>OK,

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<v Speaker 1>so it could be on the mainland, it could be

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<v Speaker 1>maybe Pulau bukong, it could be anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it could be on one of our islands, but

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<v Speaker 2>then again we have to think in terms of feasibility

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<v Speaker 2>connected them to our main grid because you're not just

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<v Speaker 2>going to support.

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<v Speaker 2>Supply electricity to just an island like a, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Semakau or whatever because you want to supply electricity to

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<v Speaker 2>mainland Singapore and I think citing dam here would be

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<v Speaker 2>one of the possibilities whereby you can get it connected

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<v Speaker 2>to our main grid and also you have to think

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the security. I mean, living close to

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<v Speaker 2>a nuclear plant is a very secure place.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you live next to a like close to OK

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<v Speaker 2>so

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<v Speaker 1>you're OK.

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<v Speaker 1>You OK with that?

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<v Speaker 2>if you ask me, uh, basically, uh, I I I

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<v Speaker 2>I've known this field for for a long time. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so this is something to do with the social aspects, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like, uh, in some countries whereby they incentivize

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<v Speaker 2>people to live close to the nuclear power plant. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's job security and they can give them some

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<v Speaker 2>other freebies like a tax breaks and things like that, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But these issues that we can consider subsequently isn't proven

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<v Speaker 2>to be too popular thing.

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<v Speaker 1>What does one SMR constitute a plant or

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<v Speaker 2>no, no. OK, so when we talk about SMR, I

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<v Speaker 2>think we start small, say probably about 70 megawatts or so,

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<v Speaker 2>which is very small. But then subsequently, we can have

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<v Speaker 2>multiple units being added on. Like, for example, if you

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<v Speaker 2>look at a new scale and they would say like

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<v Speaker 2>maybe 6 or 12 units.

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<v Speaker 2>that could be added on. Yeah. The thing about them

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<v Speaker 2>being modular is that the scales get smaller and if

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<v Speaker 2>anything does happen, it's restricted to just that plant.

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<v Speaker 1>How much

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<v Speaker 1>does one unit?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's not just the facility with

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<v Speaker 1>one facility

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<v Speaker 1>with the unit.

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<v Speaker 2>You also have to incorporate the adjacent and all these

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<v Speaker 2>complementary infrastructures like the pipings and so forth, the turbine generators, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So it can get pretty massive. But when we do

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of assessment, we are just looking at just

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<v Speaker 2>the reactor itself.

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<v Speaker 1>So who else

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<v Speaker 1>in the region are looking into nuclear power as a

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<v Speaker 1>potential energy

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<v Speaker 1>source?

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<v Speaker 2>Singapore actually came in quite late, the first plant was

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<v Speaker 2>actually built in the Philippines.

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<v Speaker 2>But it didn't operate because of a protest at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>But now they are definitely very keen in this Marcos

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<v Speaker 2>administration to actually start the plow. So they are getting

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<v Speaker 2>the Koreans to try to do an assessment to see

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<v Speaker 2>whether is it possible to start the plant. They have

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<v Speaker 2>actually built the plant already. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>they're also looking at SMRs, the smaller ones, because of

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<v Speaker 2>the archipelagic nature, you know, of the grid. Next in

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<v Speaker 2>line would be Indonesia.

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<v Speaker 2>Indonesia has all about build up the largest infrastructure of

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear capabilities. They don't have any operating nuclear power plants,

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<v Speaker 2>but they do have research reactors and they do have

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<v Speaker 2>quite a lot of IE experts being parked over there.

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<v Speaker 2>But the Malaysia, they have considered some of the sites

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going with small modular reactors, but they haven't

0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.080
<v Speaker 2>really finalized on the kind of technology. I think the

0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.030
<v Speaker 2>Indonesians are, they are actually looking at developing the technology themselves.

0:12:30.469 --> 0:12:33.968
<v Speaker 2>And Vietnam also planning to have a nuclear power. Vietnam

0:12:33.969 --> 0:12:38.510
<v Speaker 2>was the first to actually announce the nuclear power in 2008,

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.059
<v Speaker 2>and eight years later, in about 2016, they decided that no,

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.729
<v Speaker 2>they are not going ahead with the nuclear power, but recently,

0:12:45.020 --> 0:12:48.200
<v Speaker 2>because of their energy demands that they feel that solar

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.289
<v Speaker 2>is not sufficient and it's also going to be expensive,

0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>so they have actually revived their nuclear power plants.

0:12:54.489 --> 0:12:57.848
<v Speaker 1>OK, so lots of interest in SMRs as well in

0:12:57.849 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 1>the region.

0:12:58.729 --> 0:13:03.039
<v Speaker 2>When I made a presentation in 2010 on the nuclear

0:13:03.609 --> 0:13:06.609
<v Speaker 2>energy in Singapore, somebody came up to me and said that, well, Alvin,

0:13:06.809 --> 0:13:09.799
<v Speaker 2>may I know whether do you have any children or not?

0:13:09.830 --> 0:13:12.329
<v Speaker 2>And I said, no, I don't have any kids then.

0:13:12.690 --> 0:13:15.699
<v Speaker 2>And he says, ah, I see there's a problem because

0:13:15.700 --> 0:13:19.209
<v Speaker 2>if anything does happen, like what happens to Sugar, Fukushima

0:13:19.210 --> 0:13:19.978
<v Speaker 2>hasn't happened yet.

0:13:20.460 --> 0:13:23.179
<v Speaker 2>He says, then what's happened to the future generation of Singapore?

0:13:23.219 --> 0:13:25.409
<v Speaker 2>So I don't have answers. I haven't got any kids then,

0:13:25.619 --> 0:13:28.659
<v Speaker 2>but nowadays, I always bring this anecdote up and I

0:13:28.659 --> 0:13:32.890
<v Speaker 2>say that I'm still advocating for nuclear energy simply because

0:13:33.020 --> 0:13:35.539
<v Speaker 2>I've got a 9 year old boy now studying in

0:13:35.539 --> 0:13:38.179
<v Speaker 2>primary school, and I say that it is for his

0:13:38.179 --> 0:13:41.598
<v Speaker 2>future because of what happens to climate change. We need

0:13:41.599 --> 0:13:44.210
<v Speaker 2>nuclear energy, we need to keep our environment clean because

0:13:44.210 --> 0:13:47.539
<v Speaker 2>we have to stop burning fossil fuels, if not, uh, well.

0:13:48.039 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Not talking about Fukushima or Shinobi. Uh, I don't know

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.429
<v Speaker 2>what's going to happen in 2050 if we don't meet

0:13:55.429 --> 0:13:57.030
<v Speaker 2>our net zero carbon emissions.

0:13:57.359 --> 0:13:59.090
<v Speaker 1>I was also going to ask you whether you had kids,

0:13:59.359 --> 0:14:00.669
<v Speaker 1>but I was too polite, so I'm

0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.780
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that you brought it up because a lot

0:14:02.780 --> 0:14:05.059
<v Speaker 1>of the question is about do we want to subject

0:14:05.059 --> 0:14:09.090
<v Speaker 1>our future generations to the safety risks and at what price,

0:14:09.260 --> 0:14:11.419
<v Speaker 1>then you think about the climate change thing, we're kind

0:14:11.419 --> 0:14:13.650
<v Speaker 1>of leaving that kind of a legacy for them as well.

0:14:13.659 --> 0:14:16.489
<v Speaker 1>So what's worse, right? Now the other question I wanted

0:14:16.489 --> 0:14:17.820
<v Speaker 1>to ask you is what's going to happen to all

0:14:17.820 --> 0:14:18.859
<v Speaker 1>the nuclear waste?

0:14:19.179 --> 0:14:23.390
<v Speaker 2>Currently, there are only 2 technical solutions that are available

0:14:23.979 --> 0:14:27.020
<v Speaker 2>in terms of long term storage of high-level spent fuel.

0:14:28.070 --> 0:14:31.299
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about high-level nuclear waste, right, that comes out

0:14:31.299 --> 0:14:35.090
<v Speaker 2>really bad, right? Uh, yeah, those are the long-lived ones.

0:14:35.419 --> 0:14:38.070
<v Speaker 2>All right. So when they come out from a nuclear reactor,

0:14:38.119 --> 0:14:41.830
<v Speaker 2>let's say for example, a light water reactor, right, existing ones,

0:14:41.869 --> 0:14:43.869
<v Speaker 2>you have to spend like 15 to 20 years in

0:14:43.869 --> 0:14:44.809
<v Speaker 2>the spent fuel pool.

0:14:45.340 --> 0:14:48.099
<v Speaker 2>And after that, uh, they will take out the plutonium.

0:14:48.229 --> 0:14:50.630
<v Speaker 2>You have it reprocessed in some other countries, definitely not

0:14:50.630 --> 0:14:53.190
<v Speaker 2>in Singapore or not in the region because of our

0:14:53.190 --> 0:14:57.750
<v Speaker 2>non-proliferation commitments. It's probably going to be processed in countries

0:14:57.750 --> 0:15:01.869
<v Speaker 2>like France or maybe the US, reprocess over there.

0:15:02.359 --> 0:15:04.500
<v Speaker 2>And then when they take out the plutonium and then

0:15:04.500 --> 0:15:07.780
<v Speaker 2>the waste that comes back is quite hefty, the high-level

0:15:07.780 --> 0:15:10.020
<v Speaker 2>waste that we have to store them in a dry

0:15:10.020 --> 0:15:15.140
<v Speaker 2>cast barrels, right, metal containers, and currently what is happening

0:15:15.140 --> 0:15:17.619
<v Speaker 2>now throughout the world is that they are just being

0:15:17.619 --> 0:15:21.460
<v Speaker 2>stored on site and that became an issue. Yeah, except

0:15:21.460 --> 0:15:24.489
<v Speaker 2>for Finland, you should have managed to build an underground

0:15:24.900 --> 0:15:28.179
<v Speaker 2>cavern to actually store this waste storages.

0:15:28.460 --> 0:15:31.719
<v Speaker 2>And the other way, basically, apart from building it underground

0:15:31.719 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 2>is to actually drill a hole down that's about 2

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 2>kilometers deep. I mean, you can drill as long as

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.690
<v Speaker 2>deep as you want. So, and then if you put

0:15:41.690 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 2>the waste, the barrels of the waste inside and then

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.119
<v Speaker 2>you seal them up, you will not be able to

0:15:45.119 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 2>retrieve them forever. So that is the second solution. We

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.830
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have that waste problem simply because in the contract

0:15:51.830 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 2>of acquiring the nuclear power plants or the SMRs, they

0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.219
<v Speaker 2>are willing to take back the waste.

0:15:56.799 --> 0:15:57.289
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

0:15:57.599 --> 0:16:00.630
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, OK, let's talk about timeline. Best case scenario, when

0:16:00.630 --> 0:16:02.590
<v Speaker 1>do you think this might happen in your lifetime?

0:16:04.809 --> 0:16:07.710
<v Speaker 2>Certainly, I would think so because we do really have

0:16:07.710 --> 0:16:11.460
<v Speaker 2>an energy security issue that has been plaguing us since

0:16:11.669 --> 0:16:15.070
<v Speaker 2>early 2000s. So in terms of timeline, let's say if

0:16:15.070 --> 0:16:18.750
<v Speaker 2>we are looking at 2050 for net zero, give ourselves,

0:16:18.909 --> 0:16:22.909
<v Speaker 2>let's say 10 to 15 years, the IEA milestones that

0:16:22.909 --> 0:16:25.299
<v Speaker 2>we have to be met before for the first deployment.

0:16:25.830 --> 0:16:28.270
<v Speaker 2>Then if you walk that backwards, I would say that

0:16:28.270 --> 0:16:30.109
<v Speaker 2>perhaps in the middle of 2030.

0:16:30.609 --> 0:16:33.849
<v Speaker 2>We should be able to make a commitment if we

0:16:33.849 --> 0:16:35.690
<v Speaker 2>are serious to go about it. And that is also

0:16:35.690 --> 0:16:38.450
<v Speaker 2>the time whereby some of the SMRs would have been

0:16:38.450 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 2>rolled out. And maybe this newer technologies like the one

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 2>that Google is funding for Kairos Power and so forth,

0:16:46.130 --> 0:16:49.530
<v Speaker 2>they would be operating and then the IA would be

0:16:49.530 --> 0:16:51.849
<v Speaker 2>able to find a way, some of the mechanisms that

0:16:51.849 --> 0:16:54.650
<v Speaker 2>are able to safeguard this and that can be exported

0:16:54.650 --> 0:16:55.419
<v Speaker 2>to the region.

0:16:56.739 --> 0:17:00.729
<v Speaker 1>In our lifetime, and necessity breeds invention, right? So.

0:17:01.419 --> 0:17:05.130
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if we just close off this option simply because

0:17:05.130 --> 0:17:08.689
<v Speaker 2>we do not understand the safety aspects of it, then

0:17:08.689 --> 0:17:12.229
<v Speaker 2>I think it's doing our future generations a disservice.

0:17:13.530 --> 0:17:16.209
<v Speaker 1>OK. Great. Thank you so much, Alvin, really appreciate your

0:17:16.209 --> 0:17:18.569
<v Speaker 1>insight here. You've got me a little bit excited about

0:17:18.569 --> 0:17:23.839
<v Speaker 1>SMRs too, so we'll be watching this very closely. Thank you.

0:17:24.449 --> 0:17:25.250
<v Speaker 2>Thank you pleasure.

0:17:26.199 --> 0:17:28.540
<v Speaker 1>And that was Dr. Elvin Che, senior fellow at the

0:17:28.540 --> 0:17:33.060
<v Speaker 1>S Rajaratnam School of International Studies. That brings us to

0:17:33.060 --> 0:17:36.099
<v Speaker 1>the end of this episode of Climate Conversations. Thanks for

0:17:36.099 --> 0:17:39.170
<v Speaker 1>tuning in. Jack Board will be back with us next week.

0:17:39.420 --> 0:17:42.619
<v Speaker 1>Until then, I'm Lee Ling Tan. Big thanks as always

0:17:42.619 --> 0:17:46.089
<v Speaker 1>to the team that put together this podcast, Sai Ye Wind,

0:17:46.550 --> 0:17:50.020
<v Speaker 1>Tiffany Ung, Junaini Jahari, and Kristina Roberts.