S1: Hey, what's going on, it's Sonia. Welcome back to another
S1: episode of Men. Explain. Today we're going to be addressing
S1: the word alpha. I just really want to get to
S1: know a little bit more about what our guest today
S1: thinks about that and whether he himself thinks he's an
S1: alpha male. Please welcome, Joe.
S2: Hi, everyone.
S1: Maybe you can tell us a bit more about what
S1: you do, Joe. Sure.
S2: It's kind of going to be quite a mouthful because
S2: I recently left my job, so I would say that
S2: I am kind of like a full time content creator.
S2: Now I online, I have this moniker call like the info. Yes.
S2: So that pun
S1: y influencer,
S2: because I talk a lot about, like, you know, educational
S2: stuff and for giving up information and breaking that down
S2: into like bite size, you know, consumable formats. And that
S2: was given by a follow, actually. Not really. I didn't
S2: come over on my one. I just adopted it. Yeah.
S2: And then on the side, I also ran up with
S2: my friends, few Italian debt friends of mine where we
S2: do a lot of like meaningful, you know, content as well.
S2: And then on the site, I also run now, which
S2: is a youth conference that I think that, you know,
S2: motivates young people to pursue their passions. Yeah.
S1: How do you have any time at all to do anymore?
S2: That's why I feel like, you know, I channel all
S2: of my free time into like my passions, which is
S2: all these things are.
S1: So yeah. So today we're going to address the topic
S1: of alpha males and females. I mean, what alpha? Sometimes
S1: it can have, you know, positive or negative connotations? And
S1: just a disclaimer, right? This was where she used to
S1: describe animals in the animal kingdom to determine the rankings
S1: in the past. And obviously, we're just going to take
S1: you with a pinch of salt. You know, it may
S1: come as some sort of negative connotation when used on people,
S1: but let's just all take it with a grain of
S1: salt and have an open and honest conversation. So I
S1: guess we'll start with the main question is, do you
S1: think you're an alpha?
S2: So, so stirred up. OK. So when I when I
S2: think of the phrase I'm male, right? So I think
S2: of that the phrase alpha male, you know, someone like
S2: Harvey Specter from the show suits come to mind very
S2: like macho, you know, very powerful. I don't think I'm
S2: anything like that. But, you know, based on what people
S2: have told me and knowing myself as well, I do
S2: think that I'm quite type a so alpha. Yes, but like,
S2: do I fit the image? No. So that would be
S2: my answer.
S1: OK. The example that you brought up is how it's
S1: portrayed in the media, right? Yeah. You know, it goes
S1: in correct stuff. But when it comes to being alpha type,
S1: I think there are many characteristics that you know attributed
S1: that to. And it doesn't necessarily mean that, oh, you
S1: have to dress is something we own. What was then
S1: we will come across, certainly. So what do your friends
S1: and your colleagues say about you that conclude that you
S1: are more type? Right?
S2: So one thing that I got since my internship days
S2: was that I'm very go-getter, so I know exactly what
S2: I want and I won't stop until I get it. Yes. Yes.
S2: Another type is that like if, let's say, a team
S2: is working on something like, naturally, I just like my
S2: way into a leadership position, making sure that like,
S1: like, no, we do
S2: not know if a bossy. Yeah. But like, you know, if,
S2: let's say, for example, I mean, a team or group
S2: project and then I don't see it progressing a certain
S2: way or not fast enough. I'm definitely stepping up and
S2: making sure that, like all of us do our part
S2: to making sure that we meet like the goals in
S2: the end. So I think that's what the what people
S2: see and also what I definitely notice as well.
S1: So in this entire, I guess, experience in your career
S1: and stuff, you know, picking up from what you said.
S1: Has anyone ever said like you, you done Barcelona's, you
S1: always been controlling or like any, any sort of slightly,
S1: you know, negative connotation to that. You can be honest
S1: because I'll share my own experience.
S2: I mean, I've had people come up to me and say, like, Hey,
S2: maybe don't be so like, you know, aggressive sometimes. But
S2: I mean, for the most projects that I've been working on,
S2: I'm mostly working with people around my same age or
S2: slightly younger and whatnot. So I would say that that's
S2: definitely I need to balance being a friend and also
S2: like the little leader, right? So I do try to
S2: come across not to be rude.
S1: You know, sometimes it's hard to draw the line because
S1: we just want to get the job done. Yeah, in
S1: a way. Right. And I myself as well, I think,
S1: you know, you can us joakim as well. He was
S1: one of our guests in the previous episodes. So when
S1: we first started out together as video partners like quite
S1: a number of years ago, really, he 100 percent said
S1: that I'm always like trying to dominate everything, but I
S1: must always win, especially in an argument, like in a discussion,
S1: and I end up making all the decisions. So he
S1: definitely from his lens. Yeah, he would think that I'm
S1: a alpha female, right? But for him, you know, we
S1: kind of balance each other. That's why I guess the partnership,
S1: you know, works in a way because there's that balance
S1: where he's willing to sometimes, you know, back down and
S1: along the years and along the way, I also realize like,
S1: maybe I shouldn't be so aggressive, like, yeah, it can
S1: always come across my real time and I can always
S1: get things my way. Yeah. So it's all about finding
S1: that balance, right?
S2: And that comes through conversations like, you know, you said
S2: that you came to what you were, right? So that's
S2: like open communication.
S1: You know, be comfortable to speak to people.
S2: Yeah, like I mean, I've definitely had conversations with friends
S2: and whatnot whereby, you know, they tell me that this
S2: is my working style and this is and I know
S2: what my working style is. And I like to go
S2: into projects, you know, laying up there like, Hey, this
S2: is how I give it back. This is how I function. Like, No,
S2: please don't, don't take it personally. The work is the
S2: work for me and whatnot. And then that kind of
S2: like sets the expectation, sometimes whereby different people come into
S2: different projects with different expectations, of course, you know, and
S2: sometimes they take things a little bit more personally, and
S2: that's where things can go off real a little bit.
S2: So I do think communication is such a big part
S2: of that as well.
S1: I totally agree. But the one thing that sometimes you know,
S1: the thought they crosses my mind is when an alpha male,
S1: for example, when a guy comes across alpha, OK, I
S1: would say, Oh, he's so empowering swing control. But when
S1: you know, like, for example, a girl comes into a,
S1: you know, work situation and comes across alpha, people might
S1: be like, Oh, she's such a bitch, so bossy. Like,
S1: do you feel sometimes that?
S2: So I've definitely heard of that. People just dismiss a
S2: woman who is a bit more alpha. It's like bitch, right?
S2: But in my personal perspective, so I mean, I work
S2: in media, right? And I and I work with a
S2: lot of like women around me and especially women in
S2: positions of power
S1: is quite a female dominated. It is some in some
S1: sections of the media industry is quite female dominated.
S2: So so I have been in like, you know, different
S2: types of companies within the media industry as well. So
S2: I have been in an editorial publication. I've been in
S2: like influencer marketing and whatnot. So in those times where
S2: I have been working under a female lead, yeah, what
S2: I realize is that it's not actually bitchy, you know,
S2: like it's just I see it as, you know, someone
S2: who is confident, assertive, but at the same time, there's
S2: something about female leaders where I feel like there's there's
S2: more empathy. Oh, OK. Yeah. The way, the way they
S2: lead that the team or the people feels a bit
S2: more human, there's a bit more like a caring factor
S2: to it. And even under female professors in school where
S2: I went to like at school and communication school, what
S2: I realized was that like the the female professors, even
S2: as they lead the class and also like guides, students
S2: along like this always just kind of like empathetic approach
S2: to it, which I really, really enjoy. And I think
S2: that that's why I thrive under so. So that's the
S2: way I see it, you know, so so sometimes I
S2: don't really like agree with the fact that like any
S2: woman who is assertive, is a bitch, right? But perhaps
S2: some people are bitchy by like, you know, like, that's less,
S2: I would say, single cases. But in my experience, as
S2: in school at work, what I realize is that, yeah,
S2: I like female leaders, have a lot more care to
S2: the way they they handle work. So I like it.
S2: That's something I appreciate, actually.
S1: Yeah, that's an interesting way of seeing it because, you know,
S1: more often than not, like it can be a problematic term, right? Yeah,
S1: she's such an noble female. What she saw, you know,
S1: in control, which is saw like control freak, whatever, whatever,
S1: which could then cause all these negative feelings. But I
S1: never saw it your way. I mean, you think like
S1: with male like alpha males who are in leadership positions,
S1: they are less emotionally involved in something more surgical in
S1: a way.
S2: In some ways, I would think so because I mean,
S2: I came from an all male environment for 10 years, right?
S2: So I'll send boys school for 10 years. And then
S2: I went to junior school, so I'll send one fat
S2: junior and then Mary Stella High. And then I went
S2: to Meridian, which was the first time I was like, Oh,
S2: that's cool. So it's like my whole class was like,
S2: that 10 goals, two guys, you know? And then sort
S2: of quite like a big shift. Yeah. And then after that,
S2: he went into army, which is all male again. And
S2: then I went into art school, which is female dominated
S2: at once again. So I kind of like, see that
S2: stark contrast. And in various milestones in my life and
S2: you know, when I when I look at the times
S2: in army, for example, the kinds of leaders that I
S2: had in there versus like like, you know, at work
S2: and also in school. It's like, hmm, I definitely see
S2: the different types of leadership qualities come into play. I mean,
S2: I personally don't like subscribing to stereotypes all that, you know,
S2: gender stereotypes. But I see it when we're going to
S2: look at like the male leaders and the way they
S2: lead certain things. And also, like the female leaders, I
S2: definitely see like that difference.
S1: I mean, OK, so I came from an all girls school.
S1: I thought that actually, like 10 years ago, school and then,
S1: you know, you go into I went into poly. So
S1: likewise that you get introduced to like a whole bunch
S1: of different people and and stuff like that. This is
S1: a self confession right here. OK? When it was a
S1: group setting kind of like group project kind of thing,
S1: I was so irritated with the two guys in my
S1: group because they were like lazy as bitches. And I
S1: was the one like, You do this, you do that.
S1: And I'm pretty sure people were saying that I was
S1: a bit shell like, so I don't know and like group,
S1: you know, back then when you started doing all these like,
S1: you know, group setting projects and stuff like that and
S1: you exposed. Two more people did that also then change
S1: you or shape you as a person when you enter
S1: the industry instead of working?
S2: I mean, like, I wouldn't think of it as a
S2: gender kind of issue. I would think it's more just
S2: like working with different types of personalities. Yeah, 100 percent.
S2: But I mean, for you, it's great projects. For me,
S2: it's like social dynamics. So I would say that the
S2: first couple of months and JC, where I essentially went
S2: from like a boy school to kind of like a
S2: girl school with like 10 goals around me and just
S2: me and my other like male friend in class. It's like,
S2: you know, the way you, you behave in class, the
S2: way you're talking class. It's like sometimes the things you
S2: say have to be has to be a lot more
S2: like sensitive, you know, and things like that. I would
S2: say the environment is very different, you know, when it's
S2: like dominated by the guys. And also like teenage boys
S2: who talk so much shit like so, so and then
S2: you have like I would say, like my my female
S2: classmate in Jessie. Well, a lot more like emotionally mature. Yeah, yeah.
S2: Like at least compared to my secondary school grades. No
S2: sure thing on them. Please like me. Yeah. But for me,
S2: it's just like, you know, making sure that like you,
S2: you adapt accordingly and making sure that you don't, you know,
S2: rap people the wrong way and whatnot with certain things
S2: you see.
S1: So as a result, I think, you know, the broader
S1: question is, do you find this elford treat attractive or
S1: a turnoff? And this can be on a personal level
S1: to not just work. Right, right. So I mean, dating
S1: life too.
S2: Well, I mean, from from all I've been saying right now,
S2: I would think that like I do think that it
S2: is an attractive treat. Knowing what I am like as
S2: a person where I like it, when I'm in control
S2: and I like it, when I know what I want
S2: and when my goals are clear and how to get
S2: there are clear. So, you know, I tend to also
S2: surround myself with people like that. Which also it's kind
S2: of like, you know, when you look at someone and
S2: they are kind of embodying what you desire and what
S2: you want for yourself, it's like that is attractive.
S1: I mean, there is this, there's this term. I know
S1: every episode I drop some like random item that I
S1: heard from somewhere. You are the equivalent or the average
S1: of the five people around you that generally you attract
S1: this energy and you want to surround yourself with that
S1: hundred percent. And that might actually rub off in your
S1: own personal life, too. Yeah. So for me, I feel like, OK,
S1: generally I am someone who wants to be in control
S1: of a lot of things of the narrative of whatever right?
S1: And I would also like to date someone who is
S1: a little bit alpha in that sense, right? I realize, like,
S1: you know, after a lengthy dating life, some experiences, you know,
S1: where I've dated people who are like, Oh, you know anything? No,
S1: I don't know, like, Oh, you know, we'll just go
S1: is we will live as we go next year. I
S1: don't know. Maybe I'll just find something else to do.
S1: I realize, like, I can't really do that. Yeah, what
S1: about you?
S2: I have seen not just myself, but I've seen so
S2: many relationships fail because one individual is ready to conquer
S2: and and, you know, like, achieve all all that they
S2: want and the other the other person is just like, Yeah,
S2: I'm going to. Yeah, and no, not that's wrong, right?
S2: Like some people, there's
S1: nothing wrong with
S2: that. Yeah, 100 percent is just it does work in relationships. Personally,
S2: I don't think so. I've seen so many relationships fail
S2: simply because of that.
S1: Yeah. So so that then takes us to say, I
S1: don't know in your current life situation and all that right?
S1: Do you find like, let's say, an alpha woman intimidating?
S2: OK, you've heard what I feel about alpha women? Yes.
S2: Have I faced situations whereby someone who is obviously an
S2: alpha woman walks into the room and I feel like, Oh, no,
S2: you know, like, what do I? What can I do? Like,
S2: how do I not look stupid in front of her?
S2: You know, 100 percent, yes. Yeah. But I don't think
S2: it's also offer me as a man being intimidated by
S2: a woman. I just think that it's me being intimidated
S2: by someone who is intimidating.
S1: Wow, OK. So, you know, it's like, Oh yeah,
S2: it's just like, if it's if it's a guy, it
S2: is the same thing is the same thing. So so
S2: to me, that's where I see it. It's not like
S2: as if any alpha woman who comes in, I'm just
S2: like hot guys all the way. You know, sometimes I'll
S2: be like, you know, shit, like, I better get myself,
S2: you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, present myself in a certain
S2: way and I just pray to God I don't feel
S2: stupid in front of these people. So, so it's definitely
S2: like our people who present themselves a certain way. And
S2: I don't want to like, you know, like, come across
S2: as like, stupid or whatever around them.
S1: Does it make a difference if you get into a
S1: disagreement with an alpha male and alpha female?
S2: Actually, no. That like is the same to me. Like,
S2: I've always had this personal philosophy that like, you know,
S2: if you have a seat at the table, you have
S2: to earn that seat. So regardless of whoever's at the table,
S2: if any of you are the most powerful people and whatnot,
S2: I'm always going to sit down. I'm always going to
S2: give my opinion. Otherwise, there's no point in me being there.
S2: So that's kind of like where I where I function
S2: personally and whether or not whatever gender is at the table,
S2: it doesn't really matter to me. For me, it's just
S2: like making sure that like if, let's say everyone is
S2: there to do a certain thing or to give a
S2: certain opinion, I better make sure that I give mine.
S1: And have you ever made an opinion or made your
S1: opinion known at a. Table, and it was an unpopular opinion.
S2: Yeah, 100 percent.
S1: It wasn't all for you and, you know, tell us
S1: what it was and what went down. I want to know, right?
S2: So. So it's kind of like just, you know, pointing
S2: out certain things that needed to be improved. Yeah. And
S2: sometimes that means that certain people have to pull up
S2: their socks a little bit more. Yeah. And you know,
S2: at the end of the day, as I say, it like,
S2: is never personal when it comes to what at the
S2: end of the day, like, I'm not here to to
S2: affect your bonus at the end of the year. Like,
S2: I'm here to make sure that our team wins. Right.
S2: So like if let's say you're going to be personally
S2: offended by that and I'm sorry, you know, like that's
S2: just how I am. I mean, sometimes people would rather
S2: just like slap things under the carpet.
S1: Oh my gosh, as we did a whole episode on that.
S1: People like to cite things that happen. Yeah, really.
S2: That's not really my style when it comes to like
S2: my dad and my mom, you know, they sometimes they
S2: just like, you know, these are things going to say
S2: that kind of thing. And I think that that's their generation, right?
S2: Whereas ours is just kind of like, let's let's get
S2: it all out there and say, Look at it. Yeah, exactly.
S2: So I would think that is also because we've had
S2: the time to grow. We've had media and whatnot to
S2: to to show us examples, right? So, yeah, like,
S1: yeah, actually, I think you brought up an interesting point
S1: when you mention like the generation thing in our parents,
S1: because this could also stem from a generational thing like,
S1: you know, the whole alpha male versus female and how
S1: sometimes alpha males are seen as, oh yeah, OK in
S1: control and all that. But females might come across a
S1: bit more negative, you know, because I guess historically back
S1: in the day, females are known to just be like, OK,
S1: I'll stay at home, take care of the kids. Yeah,
S1: I won't work. You know, I'm a housewife. Then everything
S1: my husband wants to do, I'll say, OK, he's like
S1: this old. But you know, so yeah, do you think
S1: could possibly have stemmed from that? And then, you know,
S1: as we go along in the workplace and even now,
S1: that still has some echoes a hundred percent.
S2: So I was doing some readings before before this episode,
S2: and I I remember reading this piece that was by,
S2: I think, one of the psychologists out there. So they
S2: did a study, and what they found out was that
S2: females who had dominant attributes like alpha female attributes, right? Actually,
S2: most of them come from families whereby they were they
S2: were shown that it's normal, that, you know, women can
S2: show these attributes of the US
S1: to be successful.
S2: Correct. And and also the fact that like they were given,
S2: for example, like a role model, that they get that
S2: they can look up to look up to. Exactly. So,
S2: you know, it's definitely like a parent thing like this.
S2: It's definitely something that you cultivate. So I would think
S2: that our generation is a bit more like progressive in
S2: that sense, because I would say that some of our parents, perhaps,
S2: you know, set it to go through. I would say
S2: the next wave feminism. And then they saw what glass
S2: ceilings are like and whatnot. And then those values get
S2: passed down to us, right? And then I would think
S2: that like future generations, we'll see a lot more of
S2: such growth and progress.
S1: I mean, it also takes us into another sort of
S1: topic or sidetracked a little bit. We're in a relationship.
S1: If you are dating, for example, and alpha female or
S1: like a girl that is independent and successful and financially independent,
S1: she doesn't mind also like contributing financially to to the
S1: household and also in the, you know, the bill for
S1: this dinner. This time I'll get it kind of thing. Yeah.
S1: And for some guys, I don't know whether to them,
S1: it feels a little bit like, oh, like, yeah, I
S1: don't know if I can handle that kind of thing
S1: because from my own experience and you can share your
S1: own experiences, I'm sure you have some experience there, too.
S1: For me, I mean, I can name one or two
S1: guys that I did it before that were intimidated by
S1: my profession and the things that I do right at
S1: at a much younger age. Back then, when I just
S1: started out working, you know, suddenly you're like, Wow, I'm
S1: working earlier and faster and a lot of my peers
S1: so I can afford to like, open a bottle but
S1: affects you, something that I've been reading my age, you
S1: might say. But I think because it closed down any
S1: of it. Yeah. And so some of the guys, they're like,
S1: Oh man, I don't think I can handle this because like,
S1: you know, Barbara, I should be the one doing this.
S1: So why are you always trying to take control of
S1: of the situation in those aspects? It didn't quite work out, right? Relationships,
S1: you know? Yeah. So I think finding a partner and
S1: I definitely consider myself pretty independent person, and I don't
S1: like to be also like told what to do and
S1: stuff like that. My parents would know this. They have
S1: had a very difficult time with me when I was
S1: like a teenager. Yeah. And I think that really causes
S1: this whole situation where you look for a partner who
S1: is able to handle that and is also confident in
S1: himself and is comfortable. So for you to see a
S1: personal relationship says, have you ever been in a situation
S1: where you are intimidated by your partner or the other
S1: way around?
S2: Actually, no way. I like. I mean, I would like
S2: that if, let's say, the relationship I am, I'm in
S2: is one that is like a power couple kind of situation,
S2: you know, like if, let's say, if my partner is
S2: opening bottles and whatnot, I'm like, Yeah.
S1: You know,
S2: you want, you know, how everyone has like this. Yeah,
S2: like like a squat. Yes. Yes, you look like them
S2: and all of them are like, you know, powerful. And,
S2: you know, like, got their lives together. And like, I
S2: look at couples like that as well, and I'm like, Oh, yeah,
S2: like that. That is like something that I would like
S2: to emulate as well. So as I say it, like,
S2: I look for someone who is like, kind of like
S2: in line a line with what I what I want.
S1: So I guess, you know, bringing us back to the
S1: whole topic and concept of, you know, alpha male, alpha
S1: female in your entire life. Have you been exposed to
S1: more people who are alpha who are more in control
S1: or who are more giving in that sense,
S2: even even on TV? Let's see. You know, I watch
S2: a lot of TV and I've always seen like characters
S2: and whatnot that, you know, embody those traits. I think
S2: when I look at my parents, both of them are quite,
S2: you know, alpha types. I would think that my mom
S2: is a bit more of an alpha female than come
S2: back to my dad, but I would think that both
S2: of them are able to be like in control and whatnot.
S2: So I definitely grew up in an environment where they
S2: definitely cultivate their independence in me. So, yeah, like I
S2: would think that having seen all these kind of like
S2: examples definitely shaped my perceptions of like, you know, people
S2: who alpha.
S1: Yeah, yeah. And I think when it comes to two
S1: women as well, like I think there should be more
S1: acceptance in some way instead of a negative connotation as right,
S1: because sometimes it's like you just need to have each
S1: other's back and motivate each other instead of like tearing
S1: each other down. I don't know whether it's just a
S1: female thing where, OK, if there are too many powerful
S1: women in one setting, suddenly it becomes a little bit
S1: of a competitive, bitchy environment, right? Is it the same
S1: for guys?
S2: I mean, there is this like like top dog syndrome, right? Right.
S2: Where sometimes it's just like you kind of have two
S2: alpha males in an environment. That's what I usually say. Yeah,
S2: that's what I hear. I do think perhaps there might
S2: be some truth to that. Well, you know, there's this
S2: whole like, they can be too many cooks in the
S2: kitchen anyway. Yeah. Like between among guys, I would think.
S2: To me, it's not so much of like multiple alpha
S2: people together as most of understanding, like when you need
S2: to step back and when you need to step up. Yeah.
S2: I mean, I surround myself with people who are in control.
S2: So it's not always that like, Oh, I walk around
S2: people who just say yes to all that I do.
S2: I don't think that that kind of environment is stimulating
S2: at all. I think it's a bit like, you know,
S1: toxic a
S2: little bit. Yeah, yeah. So so I like it when, when,
S2: when ideas flow and people go back and forth, you know, like,
S2: I like it, that everyone around me like knows what
S2: they want. But that also means that sometimes ideas and clash,
S2: and it's knowing kind of like how to step back
S2: and let sometimes the other people be, you know, so,
S2: so so that's where I feel like that kind of
S2: situations can be navigated through.
S1: I think it took me some time as well to
S1: understand that whole concept of, you know, not always having
S1: things my way and having to give in a little bit.
S1: So I don't know because I'm like the only kid
S1: I grew up with. No, I literally get everything my way, OK, like,
S1: you know, daddy's going on. It's like, you know, that's
S1: always give in to their daughters, especially if it's the
S1: only kid, 100 percent, you know, and even, I guess,
S1: you entering the working world and stuff like that. It
S1: took me some time and I believe growth as well,
S1: you know, and maturity to get there for you. Do
S1: you think it took you also a little bit of
S1: time to understand, like, hey, you know, I need to
S1: step back also and give other people a chance to lead?
S2: You know, you know, that question actually let my mind
S2: to this whole thought process because, you know, when I
S2: was a kid or I, I I've always felt like,
S2: how come all these people with experience are so much
S2: more respect that are given so many more opportunities than
S2: me because I feel like I can do it, you know,
S2: at at 18, 19 years? Or I feel like, you
S2: know what, if you give me the opportunity? Yeah, I
S2: can do something. Yeah. And then of course, I'm a
S2: little bit older now. You know, I felt like a decade.
S2: We'll have experience, right? So now I'm in a position whereby,
S2: you know, like opportunities are coming onto my lap. Yeah, right.
S2: So my 18 year old self will probably be pointing
S2: at someone like me and saying that like whatever they
S2: can do, I can do, you know? So where I
S2: think that that experience has changed me as an individual
S2: will be learning how to navigate situations like this, you know,
S2: learning how to work in a team, learning how to
S2: make sure that, you know, objectives can be met and
S2: also that people that you work with you are able
S2: to make sure that everyone's happy at the end of
S2: the day. Like these are skills that you can only
S2: go through. You can only learn when you go through them. Exactly. Yeah.
S2: So so that's where my headspace will be. When you
S2: ask me that question, you know, it's like, has it
S2: been over time that something that you learned? I'm a
S2: hundred
S1: percent. Yeah, I agree as well. And I'm it's not like,
S1: I'm advocating like, Oh, you should as a woman, you
S1: should like, tone it down. Sometimes it's not. I mean,
S1: I don't mean to see it that way, obviously. But
S1: you know, sometimes for for me as well, it was
S1: a learning experience to just not be so fiery, like
S1: First Lady. If we are too fiery or too, you know, involved,
S1: we don't see it from a broader perspective as well. And.
S1: You're always stuck in your own lens, right? So I mean,
S1: that can be very challenging in a group situation.
S2: It's a it's a main character problem. You know how
S2: I think that's main character, right? So we we grew
S2: up in this like environment where reality TV, you know,
S2: like Gossip Girl. So everyone is like, Yes, this is
S2: my social Bible. So we grew up like, you know,
S2: watching all these main characters function and then, you know,
S2: obviously it's entertainment. It's like drama. But we don't really
S2: realize that in the real world, sometimes the way we
S2: say things and and the way we express ourselves to
S2: people like on TV. Yeah, like so funny and also cool,
S2: but like in real life, they kind of hurt people.
S2: So so it's about, you know, like like navigating and learning.
S2: And oh, if let's say I hurt someone once and
S2: I'm probably never going to do that again because like,
S2: like there are real feelings involved and like other people
S2: around you, they are not like characters to a story.
S2: You know, everyone is living the same life, you know, so.
S2: So that's where life teaches you lessons.
S1: You're right when it comes to media movies, you know,
S1: and social media, even in the way that these stereotyping
S1: characterize these characters that could have also caused a shift
S1: in the way people see. Females who are in power
S1: or in control or more independent, right, because you see
S1: it on TV is like, Oh, she's always the boss bitch. Yeah, yeah,
S1: she's always the one. Like, we have no feelings, you know,
S1: like stone cold walking around like in her heels and
S1: stuff like that. And that forms impressions. And yeah, maybe
S1: that's how people started thinking negatively about independent woman could be,
S2: if anything, that a media, because they want you to
S2: fall in love of characters. Everything is put in front
S2: of like rose tinted glasses. Yeah. Whereas in real life,
S2: it's like it's not really that way. Yeah. Like, things
S2: can get a bit more gray, a bit more messy. Yeah.
S2: So you have to definitely like be more aware of
S2: like how you know, our behavior can affect those around us.
S1: Yeah, a hundred percent. Thank you so much for chatting
S1: with us. Is there anything else that you want to
S1: add on when it comes to, let's say, communication or
S1: being in, you know, the working industry dealing with being
S1: surrounded by a lot of independent people and yourself included?
S2: Sure. I would think that, you know, when we we're
S2: talking about alpha males and females and whatnot, to me,
S2: it's like, there's nothing wrong with it. You know, sometimes
S2: you know, we see how people like, celebrate it. We
S2: see how people don't like it. At the end of
S2: the day, it's like just making sure that you are
S2: not an island. You are working with the people around you.
S2: You are surrounded by other individuals like make sure that
S2: you know you are alpha. As your non alpha, you
S2: make sure that you respect people in the way you
S2: work and also have a lot of empathy in the
S2: way you do things and treat other people, then I
S2: think that, like all will be good. It doesn't matter
S2: if you alpha or not.
S1: Yeah, OK. What's to live by? To be honest. Thank
S1: you so much for listening to this episode of Men Explain.
S1: If you like what you heard, please follow us up
S1: over at Apple Music, Spotify and Millicent as well. By
S1: the way, this is our final episode of the season,
S1: so please let us know what else you would like
S1: to hear in the coming episodes. And in the meantime,
S1: follow us up on Instagram at its Clarity School for updates.