Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Mind Your Money with me, Cheryl
Speaker 1: Goh here on CNA 938.
Speaker 1: Now we live in a high cost, high pressure society
Speaker 1: that is Singapore and uh it's become so that financial
Speaker 1: transparency isn't just something that's practical in relationships nowadays, it's romantic.
Speaker 1: Singles on our little red dot are apparently rewriting relationship
Speaker 1: rules focusing on shared financial goals like home ownership, long
Speaker 1: term stability and building wealth together. So,
Speaker 1: Is financial compatibility the new must when it comes to relationships,
Speaker 1: that's something we're discussing on the show today, uh, with
Speaker 1: Dilbert T, CMO of Coffee Meets Bagel and also Sebastian Seber,
Speaker 1: CMO of Cyph. Uh, welcome both to the show.
Speaker 1: Thanks. Yeah, alright, let's start with you, Gilbert. Tell us
Speaker 1: why financial skills are the new it factor when it
Speaker 1: comes to seeking a partner in modern relationships.
Speaker 2: Uh, well, to start off, Coffee Meets Bagel is the
Speaker 2: place where people look for serious relationships, and the thing
Speaker 2: that I would say is fairly consistent is
Speaker 2: Finding a serious partner is all about finding shared values.
Speaker 2: We see this in the data where more than 80%
Speaker 2: of people agree that values alignment is the most important thing. Now,
Speaker 2: what those values reflect.
Speaker 2: Or what those values mean can change over time. So
Speaker 2: in this day and age where financial literacy with platforms
Speaker 2: such as Sy making things a lot more accessible, making
Speaker 2: things a lot easier for people to take on these
Speaker 2: values can adopt those things, and that's why financial literacy
Speaker 2: come up. And what's interesting is
Speaker 2: There is a generational shift wherein we see younger people
Speaker 2: are actually a lot more open with these kind of
Speaker 2: conversations than older people. So the way we interpret the
Speaker 2: data is, it's all about how the more educated you
Speaker 2: are about this particular topic, financial literacy and having that
Speaker 2: kind of conversation.
Speaker 2: The more it becomes part of the values that you're
Speaker 2: looking to align with with whoever you want to have
Speaker 2: a serious relationship
Speaker 2: with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Sebastian, from a financial aspect, do you have
Speaker 1: anything to add?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think, I think it's something really, really
Speaker 1: important because in a committed relationship, the actions of one
Speaker 1: always have an impact or affect the other. So I
Speaker 1: think it's only like natural and and a fair thing to,
Speaker 1: to really discuss these things early and make sure like.
Speaker 1: You know, the ideas and the goals are somewhat, somewhat
Speaker 1: aligned because of course, the both the good and the
Speaker 1: bad habits will have an impact and, and so I
Speaker 1: think an alignment is, is, is really critical and, and
Speaker 1: I think it's great to see in our study that
Speaker 1: People are willing to discuss these things earlier, um, which,
Speaker 1: which allows them to, to make the right decisions and
Speaker 1: I think that's really a positive development. um, and, and
Speaker 1: we see this actually increasing uh since our last survey
Speaker 1: which we did, um, in 2022. Yeah, um, Dilbert so
Speaker 1: Sebastian mentioned that people are starting to talk about finance
Speaker 1: a bit earlier in relationships, but from a dating perspective,
Speaker 1: when should this come up, especially if we're still trying
Speaker 1: to get to know the other person.
Speaker 2: So the data suggests that you should bring it up
Speaker 2: um around 3 to 5 uh dates if you are
Speaker 2: from the younger maybe like around your mid-20s, above, above,
Speaker 2: above like late 20s, early 30s, they're more comfortable with
Speaker 2: 5 to 10. So try to sense the room is
Speaker 2: what I would say, have a good sense of is
Speaker 2: it the right time to bring it up? What's the
Speaker 2: context of bringing it up.
Speaker 2: Like it's always about reading the room properly during the
Speaker 2: day and you just brandish like, hey, I got my
Speaker 2: payslip and it's this much. That's a no go. I'll
Speaker 2: tell you, I'll tell you right now whether you're in
Speaker 2: the 5th date or the 10th date, but
Speaker 2: At that point in time, depending on where you fall
Speaker 2: within the age group, you should definitely slowly bring it
Speaker 2: up and see the comfort level there and if you don't,
Speaker 2: that's also a sign, you should read these things as
Speaker 2: signs ultimately, not everything needs to be a positive sign,
Speaker 2: negative signs are also signs and tells you maybe there's
Speaker 2: no value alignment there, and you guys should just move on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, um.
Speaker 1: Uh, besides the timing though Dilbert, um, you, you said
Speaker 1: things like, yeah, don't say this is my payslip, right,
Speaker 1: but how much do we go about revealing our financial situations,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to trickier issues like maybe you
Speaker 1: know some debt or some loans that we might have
Speaker 1: that uh we're not sure whether we should share with
Speaker 1: our potential partner.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's, that's a really tough one. I would say, um.
Speaker 2: I, at least what the data tells us with young,
Speaker 2: it makes sense with younger people, they're not heavily burdened
Speaker 2: by such things, um, especially if maybe they haven't gotten their,
Speaker 2: you know, like no BTO yet, nothing, nothing to burden their, um, financial.
Speaker 2: Financial life, but I would say when you're older and
Speaker 2: maybe that's why the data looks like this, where in
Speaker 2: the older people tend to want to have that conversation
Speaker 2: much later. So then when you have that conversation much
Speaker 2: later and maybe you have a heavy debt burden, maybe
Speaker 2: you have a flat that you, you know, have a
Speaker 2: mortgage for all of those things.
Speaker 2: Then you have to bring it up much, much later.
Speaker 2: I would, I would, I would assume.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I think maybe for me to add on
Speaker 1: this like I think it's really not about interrogating the other,
Speaker 1: the other, the other partner. It's really about, um, I
Speaker 1: think maybe sharing some of their own.
Speaker 1: You know, um, shortfalls or like being vulnerable, I think.
Speaker 1: And by doing so, I think you can also get
Speaker 1: the other person to, to share more openly. And, and
Speaker 1: then I think it really becomes more of a discussion
Speaker 1: about what can we do together? What do we want
Speaker 1: to achieve together, um, rather than, you know, asking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, debts or salaries and so on. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of this will be, will be visible from
Speaker 1: the context and, and what people can share and, uh,
Speaker 1: goals rather than purely based on, you know, numbers and
Speaker 1: hard facts. And just,
Speaker 2: just to add on, like when you're, when you're, when
Speaker 2: you're dating someone and getting to know someone.
Speaker 2: It's all about being vulnerable. Ultimately, vulnerability is a key
Speaker 2: ingredient to making anything work, whether it's friendship, romance, if
Speaker 2: you're not vulnerable, you're not open.
Speaker 2: You're not getting anywhere. That's that's a guarantee. So you
Speaker 2: have to be vulnerable and, you know, find the time
Speaker 2: or find the comfort to share such things, and you
Speaker 2: obviously don't say that on the first day that you
Speaker 2: have this heavy debt burden or some kind of issue,
Speaker 2: but as you get.
Speaker 2: To know someone, you open up slowly, slowly, slowly, and
Speaker 2: you see their reaction. Are they helpful? Are they constructive?
Speaker 2: Are they empathetic? That's when you know that you might
Speaker 2: have someone who is worth your
Speaker 2: while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I love that it's just about
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, being open, right? Dilbert, um, financial inequality will
Speaker 1: exist and a lot of, a lot of times in
Speaker 1: this day and age, it could be the women who
Speaker 1: are earning more than the men.
Speaker 1: Um, how do we deal with uh this uh tricky situation?
Speaker 2: There's actually this, this, uh, there was this really viral, uh,
Speaker 2: Reddit post that came from Singapore around this time last year,
Speaker 2: where in this Singapore woman was talking about, she used
Speaker 2: the word dating down, where she talked about how she
Speaker 2: found a partner who earns half of what she was
Speaker 2: earning and
Speaker 2: Obviously, the, you know, the comment section were asking how, how,
Speaker 2: like how do you guys work and all of those
Speaker 2: things um but ultimately they, they work because they shared
Speaker 2: common values and you know, like uh her her whole
Speaker 2: intention of sharing was more about saying to people like, hey.
Speaker 2: There are these arbitrary.
Speaker 2: Thresholds that we impose upon ourselves, but that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that you can't find someone outside of that to share
Speaker 2: your values. So, you know, I'm bringing it back to
Speaker 2: dating apps. Dating apps is, it's all about, it's all
Speaker 2: about um reach.
Speaker 2: Like the the likelihood that you'll find someone is higher
Speaker 2: if you open yourself up to more potential profiles. If
Speaker 2: you create such as, you know, you know, so many
Speaker 2: filters this age, this height, this, this way, this distance,
Speaker 2: all of those things, then naturally you, you, you, you
Speaker 2: narrow your pool, and does that mean you should keep
Speaker 2: everything blank? No, I'm not saying that, you need to
Speaker 2: find your sweet spot.
Speaker 2: And you need to interrogate each and every one of
Speaker 2: those things that you're looking for, whether it's money, whether
Speaker 2: it's height, whether it's religion, because ultimately everything actually boils
Speaker 2: down to values.
Speaker 2: You can completely fit with someone and have a strong
Speaker 2: relationship with someone who earn less than you, who might
Speaker 2: be shorter than you, who might not be as, you know,
Speaker 2: attractive as you want them to be, but if you
Speaker 2: share common values, that's such a strong foundation for a
Speaker 2: relationship that I can totally imagine seeing that
Speaker 1: work. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Um, alright, Sebastian, when it comes to shared expenses in
Speaker 1: a relationship, I guess if you see someone more, you
Speaker 1: go on more dates, uh, you, you end up having
Speaker 1: a lot of meals together, maybe, you know, paying for
Speaker 1: things like movie tickets, uh, transport expenses, etc. How, what's
Speaker 1: your thoughts on how we, how two people should navigate this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it really depends always on the individual,
Speaker 1: of course. But I think I can share a couple of, of,
Speaker 1: of guidelines or a couple of ideas on how to, how,
Speaker 1: how to manage those things. I think one common approach, um,
Speaker 1: has been to have a, a shared or a joint
Speaker 1: kind of account for, for the recurring bills. So what
Speaker 1: I call like the necessities, which is anything from, you know,
Speaker 1: the groceries, shared meals, we're gonna, uh, consume together, utilities or, or,
Speaker 1: or maybe the monthly rental, um,
Speaker 1: We have, we have, we have to pay. Um, and
Speaker 1: then people, um, keep the individual accounts for, for their
Speaker 1: own expenses, anything which is probably going a bit beyond what's,
Speaker 1: what's really the ne necessity. And I think Del will
Speaker 1: brought up an interesting topic earlier, which is, um, uh,
Speaker 1: the inequality in terms of like, you know, um, um, um,
Speaker 1: um salaries. I think this can really be.
Speaker 1: Um, also built into this so that whoever earns more
Speaker 1: also probably contributes a higher percentage, um, and basically supports
Speaker 1: the other, um, the, the partner like this a little bit. Um, I,
Speaker 1: I think that, that, that we have seen commonly in, in, in, in, in,
Speaker 1: in pairs and they in couples, and I think something which,
Speaker 1: which really worked well. And then I think um as
Speaker 1: Nowadays, for almost anything, there's a plethora of apps which
Speaker 1: you can use, which, which really make it just a
Speaker 1: little bit easier to manage those kind of things. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to upload, um, receipts or, or
Speaker 1: invoices and, and to like make it easier to divide, um, among, uh, uh,
Speaker 1: among the, the couple and just to support it and
Speaker 1: make it a little bit easier. Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1: Uh, Delbert, anything to add from a from a dating
Speaker 1: app perspective,
Speaker 1: you know,
Speaker 2: this this reminds me of is gonna reveal my age,
Speaker 2: but I remember this Friends episode wherein.
Speaker 2: The half of them who weren't making as much versus
Speaker 2: the half of them who were making more money. They're
Speaker 2: all there, there was a conflict about what they would
Speaker 2: want to do because, you know, if those who didn't
Speaker 2: make enough money, they, you know, they were, they couldn't
Speaker 2: do the thing or they it was it became awkward.
Speaker 2: And I think it's uh it's like that with relationships
Speaker 2: wherein you need to be, you need to be empathetic.
Speaker 2: About your partner's situation. So for instance, with that story
Speaker 2: I mentioned about the Singaporean woman, just because she's earning
Speaker 2: way more money, um, the way she spends or the
Speaker 2: way like, let's say they go on dates or uh
Speaker 2: go on vacation, maybe instead of Europe, let's just go
Speaker 2: to Hong Kong, maybe things like that. I think if
Speaker 2: you bring it, if, if you approach it with sensitivity,
Speaker 2: with empathy.
Speaker 2: I think you can arrive at a place of understanding
Speaker 2: as opposed to a place of awkwardness within you wouldn't
Speaker 2: want to say like, oh, let's let's take this, uh,
Speaker 2: let's take this trip to Europe. It's gonna cost this much,
Speaker 2: they're gonna be put in an awkward situation where in.
Speaker 2: Oh, I, my, my thing isn't there yet or I'm
Speaker 2: not financially, you know, um, set to do that kind
Speaker 2: of thing. So you want to avoid those things and
Speaker 2: you avoid those things by being just more empathetic.
Speaker 1: Empathy definitely something to bear in mind. uh Sebastian, you
Speaker 1: mentioned about, you know, talking about using apps to make
Speaker 1: things like shared expenses a little bit easier. What other
Speaker 1: tips do you have when it comes to financial planning
Speaker 1: for couples?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think apart from, from the, from the expenses,
Speaker 1: I think the other really important part is thinking about
Speaker 1: What are, what happens to our savings, right? Um, so each,
Speaker 1: regardless if you have completely shared accounts, which is more
Speaker 1: common like with married couples or, um, separate accounts, um, in,
Speaker 1: in committed relationship, I think couples should also think about
Speaker 1: what happens to
Speaker 1: The portion they save. Because, um, if one of, if, if,
Speaker 1: if one of them decides to spend everything and one
Speaker 1: is a very, um, is very thrifty and it saves
Speaker 1: a lot, even this can lead to conflicts in the,
Speaker 1: in the long term. So I think people should not
Speaker 1: only think about how to divide.
Speaker 1: The expenses, but also think about what are the other
Speaker 1: goals they have and what do they, how do they
Speaker 1: save and invest for, for those. And, and this can
Speaker 1: be anything. This can be, um, the holiday, and Albert mentioned,
Speaker 1: but this can also, of course, be the more long-term goals,
Speaker 1: such as how do they want to retire, how they
Speaker 1: want to finance or fund their retirement? How about kids and,
Speaker 1: and their education and all, all of those kind of things.
Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, these are really important conversations to have and,
Speaker 1: and equally important, I think as, as the expenses, as
Speaker 1: the expenses part. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Uh, today, uh, very enlightening discussion on how we navigate
Speaker 1: finances and money when it comes to romantic relationships. We've
Speaker 1: been speaking to uh Delbert T, who is CEO of
Speaker 1: dating app Coffee Meets Bagel and also Sebastian Seibert, who
Speaker 1: is CMO of investment services provider SyF. If you want
Speaker 1: to check them out online, Coffee Meets Bagel.com, one word,
Speaker 1: and also for CyF that's spelled S Y F E.com.
Speaker 1: Uh gentlemen, thank you so much for taking the time
Speaker 1: to be on Mind Your Money today.
Speaker 1: Thank you.