Speaker 1: Hello again and welcome to Arch Eats the show for
Speaker 1: Saint Louis Food fans. That gives you some information that
Speaker 1: maybe you didn't know about the local dining scene. This
Speaker 1: episode of Arch Eats is sponsored by the Repertory Theater
Speaker 1: of Saint Louis
Speaker 1: with me as always is my cohort in Crime, Cheryl Bear.
Speaker 1: Good morning,
Speaker 2: good morning. Good frosty morning to
Speaker 1: you. And we will cover that later. That's gonna, that's
Speaker 1: gonna come up a little bit later on teaser. Yes.
Speaker 1: Today we're gonna talk about trends we see in Saint
Speaker 1: Louis for 2024 and a few we'd prefer not to see.
Speaker 1: And then we'll end up with a rant about what
Speaker 1: irritates us about some Saint Louis restaurants in the winter.
Speaker 1: But first, it's what we can't stop thinking about this week.
Speaker 1: Ok. I'll go first for me. This is brand new
Speaker 1: News Southern closed this week. A great Nashville hot Chicken restaurant.
Speaker 1: Rick Lewis and Mike Emerson opened this place. They spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time down south down in, in, in Nashville,
Speaker 1: down in Memphis, down in the, the, the roots of,
Speaker 1: of hot chicken land, uh, learning about how to properly
Speaker 1: prepare it they were bringing the first Nashville hot chicken
Speaker 1: to Saint Louis and they wanted to do it. Right.
Speaker 1: I just remember a lot of the things that they did,
Speaker 1: they are things that I didn't know they put the
Speaker 1: spicing into the meat. They did the meat marinade. So,
Speaker 1: the spice isn't in the breading. Huh? I didn't know
Speaker 1: that the only spicy part of the breading is what
Speaker 1: they coat it in the spice mix, which it's a
Speaker 1: powdered mix that they mix with a little of the
Speaker 1: fryer oil. That's how they make the paste. And it's
Speaker 1: a very light, it's almost like a glaze. It's not
Speaker 1: like a paste. I thought that was pretty interesting and
Speaker 1: that's what made it better. And the other thing that
Speaker 1: they did is something that Mike did at Pappy's. They
Speaker 1: had a door person there to meet, greet and answer
Speaker 1: questions and basically entertain the people in line. And a
Speaker 1: lot of the time that was Rick Lewis
Speaker 1: and I just think that was something that was crucial
Speaker 1: to the success of both those places. They, you got
Speaker 1: to meet the owner and what Rick Lewis did, which
Speaker 1: was really interesting. He offered chicken at one of the
Speaker 1: lower spice levels just as a barometer. Just so you
Speaker 1: knew how to order. Once you got to
Speaker 1: the head of the line, I thought that was brilliant.
Speaker 1: Southern changed. They took uh chicken breasts off the menu
Speaker 1: which met with a lot of disagreement. Uh in favor
Speaker 1: of uh just chicken tenders. Nothing wrong with chicken tenders,
Speaker 1: but you gotta have a chicken breast on the menu.
Speaker 1: And I think what happened to them is, is I
Speaker 1: was trying to analyze it is they took a long
Speaker 1: time to open up after the pandemic. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: they ever regained that lost business.
Speaker 1: Anyway. Southern closed last week. It was unfortunate. But, you know,
Speaker 1: to me it was the first Nashville hot chicken joint
Speaker 1: in the city. And for several years anyway, it was
Speaker 1: the best.
Speaker 2: It was spicy, but it was so flavorful. You didn't,
Speaker 2: you couldn't stop. That was
Speaker 1: the problem. And there's other Nashville hot chicken places that
Speaker 1: have come up since then. Uh Chuck's a place called
Speaker 1: Heaters in Kirkwood.
Speaker 1: Uh Grace Meat and Three where Rick Lewis moved on to,
Speaker 1: he still sells, I think the original recipe and then
Speaker 1: a place that I know you love Sunday best. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Their
Speaker 2: hot chicken is wonderful. The tenders and the, uh, in
Speaker 2: the bone in version. Well, George, if you're talking about
Speaker 2: Southern and Fried chicken, of course, one place that I
Speaker 2: can't stop thinking about and I recently discovered this little
Speaker 2: trick or hack. I don't know, in the parlance
Speaker 2: of our times if that's what we want to call it. But, um,
Speaker 2: f Frank and Helen's is a university city institution. It's
Speaker 2: been there forever. I have memories of my grandma sitting
Speaker 2: there getting a reservation. Sitting down with Helen in one
Speaker 2: of the booths at this place. And, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: been there for decades but they do broasted chicken, which
Speaker 2: is a pressure cooked style of chicken that results in
Speaker 2: very juicy meat. But this very light but super crispy
Speaker 2: coating on the outside. Well,
Speaker 2: the broasted chicken, it's wonderful on its own. But they
Speaker 2: also serve a creamy garlic dressing for their salad, which
Speaker 2: I think it's the best salad dressing
Speaker 2: ever to be invented. I'm, I'm just gonna go out
Speaker 2: on a limb and say this. It is the nectar
Speaker 2: of the gods. And the owner told me that I
Speaker 2: should get an order a side dish. Oh, yes, of
Speaker 2: the creamy garlic dressing and dip the fried chicken into it.
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you it's, it's transcendent. Highly recommend. I'm
Speaker 1: shaking my head, but I respect your palate. I, I,
Speaker 1: and I love Frank and Helen. So, uh, I did
Speaker 1: not know about that.
Speaker 1: Have you had the dressing though? Yes, I think I've
Speaker 1: had it on a salad. I, I never thought to
Speaker 1: put it on chicken
Speaker 2: garlic bread in there. I'm not gonna lie. It's, uh, put,
Speaker 1: put that on your special, put that on your to
Speaker 1: do list, folks Frank and Helen's chicken with the dressing
Speaker 1: 10
Speaker 2: out of 10.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back in the heart of the ocean.
Speaker 1: A tale of Revenge unfolds. Moby Dick live on stage
Speaker 1: at the repertory Theater of Saint Louis from February 6th
Speaker 1: through the 25th. Don't miss the drama, the Danger, the Hunt,
Speaker 1: get tickets now at Rep stl.org
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
Speaker 1: So that brings us to the main part of our
Speaker 1: show where we're gonna talk about some trends and we're
Speaker 1: gonna take them in and try to be organized and
Speaker 1: take them in, in categories. We're gonna talk about some
Speaker 1: food trends, some drink trends, some restaurant trends and some
Speaker 1: service trends. I think we've got something to say about
Speaker 1: all those. And then I think we're gonna do some trends.
Speaker 1: We just like to see,
Speaker 2: go away. Some of these are things that we've already seen,
Speaker 2: seen. There's been some groundwork for them, others, you know,
Speaker 2: we haven't seen here at all. We're getting our crystal
Speaker 2: balls out. I think one of those things that we
Speaker 2: really have seen a lot of groundwork laid already are
Speaker 2: plant based meats. I don't know if we call meats
Speaker 2: meat alternatives. It's
Speaker 1: hard. You have to, you know, use the quotations all
Speaker 1: the time because,
Speaker 1: uh, whenever you say, you know, it tastes just like
Speaker 1: steak or it's, it's a vegan steak, steak in quotes.
Speaker 1: But I
Speaker 2: think there is, you know, you need that reference point
Speaker 2: because that's what they're going for with these. And one
Speaker 2: of the most exciting people to watch is Chris Burke
Speaker 2: at Vegan Deli and Butcher, which opened kind of later
Speaker 2: last year in Bevo Mill. You know, he's been doing
Speaker 2: this for years. He was kind of one of the
Speaker 2: first people in town to do like the vegan versions
Speaker 2: of all your fast food
Speaker 2: bowls, like the Jack In the Box tacos and the
Speaker 2: Big Macs and all of that. He's the
Speaker 1: poster boy for chefs in this town.
Speaker 2: He really is. He's so it's
Speaker 1: g but he kind of is, he kind
Speaker 2: of is to be honest. So he's really doing at
Speaker 2: his deli and butcher shop there. He's taking some of
Speaker 2: the classic deli dishes, think smoked salmon, think corned beef pastrami.
Speaker 2: And he's doing them with plant based meats. And
Speaker 2: I find that really exciting. Um Another place and we've
Speaker 2: actually talked about them before. Um I think it talks
Speaker 2: about them in terms of biscuits and gravy is Looking Meadow,
Speaker 2: the coffee shop in Maplewood, the vegan sausage on those
Speaker 2: biscuits and gravy is fantastic. But they also do a
Speaker 2: wonderful version of a French dip with a vegan version
Speaker 2: of roast beef that a local woman named Amy Simmons
Speaker 2: makes for them. I mean, I'm telling you, I am
Speaker 2: a of
Speaker 2: avowed meat eater and this stuff's delicious.
Speaker 1: And, you know, we talked about this a little bit too.
Speaker 1: There's a local product called Harvest Shreds and it is
Speaker 1: just like I said this before. It fooled carnivore George. It's,
Speaker 1: it's locally made. It's plant based. It's a sustainable shredded
Speaker 1: meat alternative and it goes great in taco salads and
Speaker 1: tacos and it's being used in a bunch of, uh,
Speaker 1: Mexican restaurants in town
Speaker 1: and it's just an excellent product. And I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna see a lot more of this product and products
Speaker 1: like it in 2024 both at the grocery store and on, uh,
Speaker 1: restaurant menus. I know they have it at Ivy. I
Speaker 1: know they have it at Grace Meat and Three. Look
Speaker 1: for it when it's becomes available. I think, I think
Speaker 1: it's available now at Parker's table, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: And before we get off of Chris Burke, we were
Speaker 1: talking about some of the things he does. Yeah, he does.
Speaker 1: He's created all these meats. But he also does. You
Speaker 1: said he does a, a quote salmon. He also does
Speaker 1: a lobster roll. A vegan lobster that I haven't tasted it,
Speaker 1: but I've seen it and it looks pretty much like
Speaker 1: a lobster roll. And, um, anyway, that is another trend
Speaker 1: that's coming, is this whole faux fish trend, this vegan
Speaker 1: faux fish where they're making,
Speaker 1: uh, scallops and, and snow crab and lobster out of, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, plant-based products. And I, I read there's a
Speaker 1: crab cake out there that tastes like a crab cake
Speaker 1: that's made out of Enoki mushrooms and celery root. Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of magic is that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't even see how that's possible, but I know
Speaker 1: what some of these guys can do. Anyway. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a very significant year for plant-based meats and
Speaker 2: goodies. I agree. And I think, you know, the bottom
Speaker 2: line on
Speaker 2: that is, it's not just, um, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: a segmented thing anymore where you find it in a
Speaker 2: vegan restaurant but you won't find it anywhere else. I
Speaker 2: think that's part of the trend is a lot of
Speaker 2: like restaurants that appeal to all different diets are finding
Speaker 2: that they want options for variety
Speaker 1: because somebody in your group is going to be a
Speaker 1: vegan or a vegetarian. You better accommodate for them. The
Speaker 1: other one that I saw, I haven't seen it here yet,
Speaker 1: but they
Speaker 1: is an alternative chocolate that's made without cocoa. Oh, think
Speaker 1: about that. And apparently it has the same taste smell
Speaker 1: and melt of original chocolate and has no cocoa in it.
Speaker 1: I mean, just what I say, it's gonna be a,
Speaker 1: just a fantastic year. I can't wait to see that
Speaker 1: stuff come down. Yeah. All the
Speaker 2: food science stuff is very interesting for sure. What else
Speaker 2: do you have that you're excited about?
Speaker 1: Well, um, we've touched on some of this, this whole
Speaker 1: tinned fish trend.
Speaker 1: Uh Ben Pemba has a lot of it on the
Speaker 1: menu at bar morrow. These are these, you know, don't
Speaker 1: think uh you know, sardines and, and some of these
Speaker 1: older tuna in a can, these are higher end uh
Speaker 1: scallops and finer fish if you will. This is the
Speaker 1: fancy canned it is and some of them are $8
Speaker 1: and some of them are 30. But you're gonna see
Speaker 1: a lot more of these, they, they've been kind of
Speaker 1: in the news
Speaker 1: and so much to the point that there are now
Speaker 1: sea coterie se a coterie boards with all this stuff,
Speaker 1: all these smoked fish, all these tinned fish on them.
Speaker 1: And I thought, and we've talked about this, why not
Speaker 1: throw a few of those anti gun smoked shrimp on
Speaker 1: there when we're putting something like that together at home?
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna see sea
Speaker 2: cutie boards. I can't get over the term
Speaker 2: cutie. I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought, I, yeah, I'm always known for my, you
Speaker 1: always like, look at me, you know, cross eyed when
Speaker 1: I come up with these cutesy terms, but that's one
Speaker 1: of them
Speaker 2: Archie should do like a dictionary. Like the word of
Speaker 2: the year is C coterie. I'm officially crowning that our
Speaker 2: word of the year.
Speaker 1: That that works. How about dry aging? Now we've seen
Speaker 1: dry aged meats. They've been on local restaurants for a long,
Speaker 1: long time. But
Speaker 1: now, you know, with the advent of Sado and Indo,
Speaker 1: Nick Bognar comes along and dry ages fish, I thought
Speaker 1: was something new for Saint Louis, but apparently that's been
Speaker 1: done in different cities and Nick was the first one
Speaker 1: to bring it here. Now, I was talking to Ben
Speaker 1: Pambo about that. He goes, he goes, I've been doing
Speaker 1: that for a long time. I just haven't told people
Speaker 1: about it. So he's been dry, aging different meats,
Speaker 1: you know, I, I'm not really too sure. I know
Speaker 1: he was doing, uh, I think some duck and maybe
Speaker 1: what really interested me was he's gonna be dry aging
Speaker 1: vegetables at some of his new restaurants. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what that means. I know that dry aging takes
Speaker 1: the moisture out of it, increases the flavor makes it
Speaker 1: more tender. So, anyway, creative dry aging. That's one for 2024.
Speaker 2: That's, that sounds interesting.
Speaker 1: So there's one
Speaker 1: food item that I read about recently that does have
Speaker 1: local ties and I just like everything about it. It's
Speaker 1: called Gar Leak. Garleek. A cross between garlic and a
Speaker 1: leek like a leak. You can chop the whole thing
Speaker 1: up and use the whole thing, which always drove me crazy.
Speaker 1: But uh what's interesting about that? It's being developed by
Speaker 1: a guy Dan Barber,
Speaker 1: uh Blue Hill at Stone Barns in New York. That's
Speaker 1: where the Galena worked before they came to Saint Louis.
Speaker 1: And this guy up there has developed all these seeds
Speaker 1: and all these uh unusual vegetables. And uh
Speaker 1: when he developed something called honey nut squash Visa in
Speaker 1: Saint Louis with the Galenus was the first one to
Speaker 1: use it. So my intention is when Gar Leak comes
Speaker 1: down the pike this year that we will see it
Speaker 1: and probably see it at one of the Galena restaurants
Speaker 1: because their buddies with chef Dan barber. How about that?
Speaker 1: You can use it root to tip. It's got the
Speaker 1: benefits of both garlic and leek. I mean,
Speaker 1: why didn't we have this
Speaker 2: sooner? What more do you want? Now, someone just needs
Speaker 2: to have the Shaik or something? Because shallots are the
Speaker 2: next one on that list. That are amazing.
Speaker 1: That's another word for the art.
Speaker 2: We'll put the Shaik on our sea Coie board. The
Speaker 2: other
Speaker 1: thing that I think we're going to see more of
Speaker 1: is uh is Wagyu beef. Uh It's, it's appearing on,
Speaker 1: on a lot of local menus, both Japanese, which is
Speaker 1: the highest end and Australian and American Wagyu, it's just
Speaker 1: ridiculously expensive, which I thought this is really going to
Speaker 1: have a limited appeal.
Speaker 1: And I'm wrong about this out at Napoli three in
Speaker 1: Saint Charles and Napoli C. They have a, a Wagyu
Speaker 1: steak that's 202 $125. I was just at Napoli C
Speaker 1: and they displayed it. It's this giant tenderloin just beautiful. And,
Speaker 1: but the cost is 225. And so is that
Speaker 2: a shareable thing for people? Like you get it? It is,
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, how many of those do
Speaker 1: you sell? And
Speaker 1: surprisingly a bunch of them. And in Napoli three, they
Speaker 1: sell all kinds on the weekends. So that tells me
Speaker 1: there is a market for this even at that high
Speaker 1: price point and they make a big deal of it.
Speaker 1: They have this c this seal of, uh, or the, uh,
Speaker 1: certificate of authenticity. It takes up a whole menu page
Speaker 1: and they make a really big deal about it. But
Speaker 1: this comes from a company in Saint Louis, a locally
Speaker 1: owned company called
Speaker 1: Standard Meat Club. And we've talked about them before. You,
Speaker 1: you go to their website, they have pages upon pages
Speaker 1: of Wagyu meat. So Wagyu is, is, it's been around
Speaker 1: for a while, but it's gonna be a big deal.
Speaker 1: I think in Saint Louis in 2024 you're gonna see
Speaker 1: it on more menus and somebody's got that money to spend. It's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's not me but uh it's selling in restaurants well,
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 2: even seeing it in different,
Speaker 2: like we've discussed on here before from um the catalog
Speaker 2: you're discussing, you know, we could see it in hot dogs,
Speaker 2: we could see it in sliders. You know, it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be the pomp and circumstance of a gigantic steak.
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see it. Exactly. I mean,
Speaker 2: why not? It's
Speaker 1: a thing. And I kind of thought just due to
Speaker 1: the cost it was a passing fad. Not true. Another
Speaker 1: one that won't be a passing fad for sure is
Speaker 1: cannabis cuisine.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is definitely something that I just see. Sky
Speaker 2: is the limit opportunities in here in town. I think
Speaker 2: we've already seen the popularity of that, you know, with
Speaker 2: um cannabis themed kind of dinner clubs, a catering company.
Speaker 2: Rooted b,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, they,
Speaker 1: they, one of the best cannabis caterers in town. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that was a category, but it is,
Speaker 2: apparently it is now because it can be now. Right. And, um,
Speaker 2: there's that Chartreuse dinner club
Speaker 1: we've talked about them. She sells out those, I think
Speaker 1: she does three or four events a month
Speaker 1: and she sells them out
Speaker 2: instantly, I mean, instantly and the other one that I
Speaker 2: saw also sold out. So if you are interested in
Speaker 2: doing this, you have to be, you know, set alerts
Speaker 2: for it. It's probably harder than getting a reservation at
Speaker 2: rights or wherever. But um you know, uh proper cannabis
Speaker 2: has done a couple of or at least they've done
Speaker 2: one that I know of with Balkan Treat box and
Speaker 2: um you know, Spencer Beniko, who's over at
Speaker 2: proper. He is very connected to the ST Louis food scene.
Speaker 2: He's just been someone who's, you know, he had a
Speaker 2: great blog whiskey and so he's a great photographer. He's
Speaker 2: an amazing photographer, but he's over it proper. And because
Speaker 2: he has those long standing relationships with some of the
Speaker 2: best chefs in ST Louis,
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be exciting to see these
Speaker 2: dinner collaborations between proper and some of the biggest name
Speaker 2: chefs here in town. I think we will see that
Speaker 2: happen throughout the year and beyond. No question,
Speaker 1: let's transition to the bar scene. What do you see
Speaker 1: happening? There's been a lot going on in 2023 in
Speaker 1: Saint Louis bars and, and the cocktail scene. Yes.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the, the trend is that there is
Speaker 2: a bar scene. I think a lot of people were,
Speaker 2: you know, lamenting the loss of bars in, during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: I think that was one of the biggest losses, you know,
Speaker 2: just that kind of communal watering hole. And, um, they,
Speaker 2: they are roaring back with a vengeance and not just,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of your local dive bar. But we
Speaker 2: are talking these really creative experimental cocktail bars, high end
Speaker 2: uh very interesting stuff. One of the places that you
Speaker 2: and I have talked about that I think is the
Speaker 2: gold standard of what's going on is none of the
Speaker 2: above Gerard Craft's Place which just opened in
Speaker 2: Foundry High end cocktails. Swanky Digs. Just a beautiful spot.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just kind of the place that you
Speaker 2: want to go to, to have a wonderful cocktail, but
Speaker 2: they're not the only ones. Um I've had wonderful cocktails,
Speaker 2: even though it's not in as Swanky, it's almost like
Speaker 2: an intentionally nostalgic uns Swanky vibe is to
Speaker 2: Chrome bar also in Bevo Mill. We're talking about Bevo
Speaker 2: a lot today. But um that's a really fun place
Speaker 2: and they're doing fantastic cocktails there. Chelsea Fister is the
Speaker 2: bartender or bar manager, I guess of the place and
Speaker 2: that's been a lot of fun to watch New Society
Speaker 2: on South Grand in the basement of Grand Spirits.
Speaker 2: That's a partnership between Michael Fricker and MEREDITH Barry. Both
Speaker 2: of them esteemed bar minds in ST Louis the best
Speaker 2: in town. Yes. And then the one I'm really excited
Speaker 2: for is good company, which is going to open in
Speaker 2: the grove pretty soon. Those are the good ice people,
Speaker 2: the people who are doing those really high end beautiful
Speaker 2: filtered ice of all shapes and sizes, some of them
Speaker 2: embossed and engraved. Um
Speaker 2: I don't know what the term is for ice, but
Speaker 2: um they're doing those for a lot of cocktail bars
Speaker 2: around town. So I think we're seeing these very elevated bars.
Speaker 1: How about no alcohol and low alcohol cocktails? Is that,
Speaker 1: was that a fad or is that a trend that's
Speaker 1: gonna hang in there? I don't see
Speaker 2: it as a fad. I mean, I think we're seeing
Speaker 2: that there's almost a generational change in views of alcohol,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of in terms of well
Speaker 2: and things of that sort. So I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people are still wanting that, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: collegial communal feel of going to a bar. They want
Speaker 2: to feel festive and upbeat. Um But they don't want
Speaker 2: to do it with
Speaker 1: booze. They just want a well made cocktail. They don't
Speaker 1: want the alcohol and I think, and not to throw
Speaker 1: cold beer on this subject. But due to the popularity of,
Speaker 1: let's just say my
Speaker 1: altering substances which are not illegal. I think that that
Speaker 1: will affect the consumption of alcohol. I've been told by
Speaker 1: bar managers, bartenders that it has no doubt and, uh,
Speaker 1: they're still selling them. But, uh, again, these no alcohol,
Speaker 1: low alcohols, uh, cocktails are way up just because other
Speaker 1: people are finding other things to do. That's
Speaker 2: great. I think another thing that's exciting related
Speaker 2: to bars coming back and these really, really elevated cocktail
Speaker 2: bars as I did touch on it, um the elevated ice,
Speaker 2: you know, for by surface volume, it's one of the major,
Speaker 2: maybe the most major component oftentimes of a cocktail. And
Speaker 2: I think bars are realizing that they don't wanna put
Speaker 2: any old ice in there. That that is as much
Speaker 2: a component of a great cocktail
Speaker 2: as your base spirit and whatever you're putting in there.
Speaker 2: And I think we are going to continue to see
Speaker 2: these very elevated ice options, you know, for that are
Speaker 2: being prepared by
Speaker 1: all these shapes. They're very hard and there's very little
Speaker 1: drink dilution with these. And that's very important to these bartenders.
Speaker 1: They don't want their drink water down and very hard,
Speaker 1: very fancy
Speaker 1: uh uh ice cubes that doesn't happen well, and as
Speaker 2: a consumer, you don't want that either. You don't want
Speaker 2: to be two sips in and already have the experience
Speaker 2: diluted for you. So I think
Speaker 2: that's a good company has really been, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of uh the gold standard of that here in town
Speaker 2: and I'm excited to see what else happens with that.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker 1: before we get off bars, I wanna do uh talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about wines and a couple of the
Speaker 1: trends that I hope will happen. I hope that we
Speaker 1: will see more low to mid priced wines on wine menus.
Speaker 1: Those wines
Speaker 1: are out there. I see them at all the liquor
Speaker 1: stores and wine stores and I just wish that restaurant
Speaker 1: owners would put more of them on there because again, the, the,
Speaker 1: the price to go out to eat is so high.
Speaker 1: Help us out how however you can. Uh the other
Speaker 1: thing I like that I saw first, I think at
Speaker 1: Avenue was the uh wine poured at the table.
Speaker 1: They bring the wine out, they show it to you,
Speaker 1: they pour the glass right then and there, you know
Speaker 1: what it looks like. There's some interaction going on with
Speaker 1: the server. It's just why every place in town doesn't
Speaker 1: do that. I don't know. OK, it's another step, but still,
Speaker 1: it's just a, a great hospitality nod. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that they do there again, more folks are doing
Speaker 1: this now is offering a half glass. They'll come back
Speaker 1: and say, would you like a glass of wine? You
Speaker 1: know how about a half glass? And I go
Speaker 1: the heck is gonna turn down a half glass of wine.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we need right now.
Speaker 2: Right? Well, I like that and I think that fits
Speaker 2: in with the, your non alcoholic trend or movement back off.
Speaker 2: Just a little. Exactly. You don't have to back off completely.
Speaker 2: But maybe just a
Speaker 1: touch. Let's talk about restaurants. There was, uh, it was
Speaker 1: 23 was an interesting year in restaurants. There was a
Speaker 1: lot going on. There was a lot of, uh, uh,
Speaker 1: thematic restaurants that came about and I know some of
Speaker 1: them you reviewed.
Speaker 2: I did well, a few of the ones and I
Speaker 2: would like to see more of these and I think
Speaker 2: we are going to see more of these are the
Speaker 2: um regional Mexican restaurants. I think that
Speaker 2: we, you know, there is a time and a place
Speaker 2: for a great Tex Mex. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: don't give me shade on Tex Mex.
Speaker 2: But yes, I am the first person to go to
Speaker 2: Miri and Cheeto. Like let's just say that another city institution.
Speaker 2: I think it's been really exciting to see some of
Speaker 2: these chefs do some creative, innovative things that really get
Speaker 2: to the heart of traditional cuisine. Taqueria Merita is one
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to. That is uh chef
Speaker 2: Aaron Hernandez, who's been with the Visa folks for a while. Now,
Speaker 2: this is really a place that is um Harkens back
Speaker 2: to his childhood growing up in southern California and going
Speaker 2: down the Baja coast with his family. So it's nostalgic
Speaker 2: for him, but it also represents just a thrilling place.
Speaker 2: I mean, here we are in the cold right now.
Speaker 2: I can't talk, I can't think of somewhere more aspirational
Speaker 2: than eating these wonderful, fresh, vibrant fish
Speaker 2: tacos. He's
Speaker 1: a fine dining chef that has gone the route of,
Speaker 1: of tacos. And I'm so happy for him because now
Speaker 1: they have a brick and mortar or they will see
Speaker 1: in the central west. And remember they were, it was
Speaker 1: a cool place. It was an outdoor restaurant at Visio. And,
Speaker 1: but then in the, in the winter time they moved
Speaker 1: to Winslow's Table and then they moved back to Visa though.
Speaker 1: That part of it was kind of screwy for me
Speaker 1: and it just wasn't cohesive. Now, he's got his own
Speaker 1: brick and mortar. That's the way it should have been
Speaker 1: in the first.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think they were excited about doing it
Speaker 2: as a pop up and then realized how wonderful it
Speaker 2: is that it just needed its own, its own thing.
Speaker 2: And the
Speaker 1: other higher end one that I'm thinking of is Malinche
Speaker 1: out in Chesterfield.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's even further than that. George. It is in Ellisville.
Speaker 2: It is. Uh, that's all Chesterfield to me. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, it's,
Speaker 2: it's my new Stomping Ground County folks. Thank you. Thank
Speaker 2: you melee for giving me something to cheer about
Speaker 2: out there. But Maleia is wonderful. I mean, that's another
Speaker 2: regional Mexican restaurant. It's been around for a little while,
Speaker 2: but you're just getting these flavors that are so exciting there.
Speaker 2: I'm also excited about El Molino de Cree that opened
Speaker 2: up toward the end of last year. That is Alex Henry,
Speaker 2: who has Creste in City Foundry.
Speaker 2: Outstanding Cochinita Pibil. He's taken that concept and opened that
Speaker 2: in its own stand alone place south on King's Highway.
Speaker 2: And that is just this beautiful elevated very traditional restaurant
Speaker 2: with
Speaker 1: a big mill in the window we know is right
Speaker 1: in the window, which is cool and it's, it's in use.
Speaker 1: It's not just a,
Speaker 1: just an artifact.
Speaker 2: So yes, and this is him bringing the food that
Speaker 2: he experienced in his childhood, you know, going back and
Speaker 2: forth between the States and the Yucatan, you know, he's
Speaker 2: bringing that here. So I'm hopeful that we will continue
Speaker 2: to see more
Speaker 2: these regional Mexican restaurants because wow,
Speaker 1: the food's good. We also noticed in 2023 a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of bagel places opening up, you know, I I
Speaker 1: just thought it was great. They're all different. They're all,
Speaker 1: most of them are pretty good. And with the closing
Speaker 1: of the bagel factory that just left this huge void.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden three or four guys jump
Speaker 1: in
Speaker 1: and I wonder if that is going to continue uh
Speaker 1: in 2024 whether we're gonna see, you know, will, will
Speaker 1: there be a bagel shop on every corner like a bakery?
Speaker 2: See, I think this may be where you and I
Speaker 2: differ on this because I, I am thrilled at the
Speaker 2: bagel scene here now and we have some great places
Speaker 2: and I am here for it and I frequent them
Speaker 2: and they're wonderful. I feel like we've reached peak bagel.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Right. I don't know
Speaker 2: if we're going to see one on every corner like
Speaker 2: a total access, you know, urgent care. I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: see bagels on every corner.
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't get to that. But I think,
Speaker 1: I think different neighborhood, I think every neighborhood needs a
Speaker 1: good bagel shop. The other thing that I saw that
Speaker 1: I think we should mention is this, this whole ghost
Speaker 1: kitchen thing. Is that a, is that a fad? Is
Speaker 1: that a trend? I think it's going to continue with
Speaker 1: the popularity of pickup and delivery foods. You're gonna see
Speaker 1: more ghost kitchens. And
Speaker 1: I think the coolest thing that's going on there is
Speaker 1: what's going on at Urban Eats and has been going
Speaker 1: on there for several years. There's several kitchens under one roof.
Speaker 1: It's almost like a
Speaker 1: stationary food truck if you will. It gives guys with
Speaker 1: an idea, a chance to test the waters for a
Speaker 1: year or two and just to see if anything, you know,
Speaker 1: if it's a good idea or not, there's a place
Speaker 1: called Mr Souvlaki that was a farmer's market staple for
Speaker 1: a couple of years. He's got some great products. He's
Speaker 1: moving in there at a place called Wheelhouse Fish Company
Speaker 1: that's also coming to the Urban Eats space and I
Speaker 1: won't go into it right now, but read about that
Speaker 1: one in Saint Louis magazine. These folks are, have a
Speaker 1: fishing boat up in all
Speaker 1: Alaska. They, they, they split their time between Alaska and
Speaker 1: Saint Louis and they're going to do a little food
Speaker 1: stall at Urban Eats. So shout out to Urban Eats.
Speaker 1: I hope to see more places like that in 24.
Speaker 1: That will give more of these fledgling restaurant guys a chance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that. And uh Black Salt, you know,
Speaker 2: the very popular Indian restaurant uh that uh from Chesterfield,
Speaker 2: they're opening up a spot in a ghost kitchen out
Speaker 2: of Hampton. So, you know, part of me thinks that
Speaker 2: is that a trend that was only
Speaker 2: in the pandemic. But you're right. I think people have
Speaker 2: made a habit of dining in. So I think we
Speaker 2: have opportunities for maybe some of these concepts that have
Speaker 2: brick and mortars, you know, in some ways they're almost
Speaker 2: going opposite rather than starting out as a ghost kitchen
Speaker 2: and then using that as a launch pad, some of
Speaker 2: them seem like they've had a successful thing here in
Speaker 2: a brick and mortar and now they want to take
Speaker 2: that to different neighborhoods and a ghost kitchen is a
Speaker 2: low stakes way to do that. It's a
Speaker 1: perfect way to do it early in 24.
Speaker 1: There is, I think it's the ce si think it's
Speaker 1: a consumer electronic show. Maybe that's in Vegas and it's
Speaker 1: all things, uh, electronic and, and techy. And it got
Speaker 1: me to thinking about the first thing I thought about
Speaker 1: was the guy from Alibi cookies who did that cookie bot.
Speaker 1: He has that, he has that cookie machine and it's
Speaker 1: so fun in town and it still exists. And, uh, I,
Speaker 1: I was reading up on the, you know, food related, uh,
Speaker 1: innovations coming there.
Speaker 1: Pizza vending machines that are out there. Now, I didn't
Speaker 1: know of to the point that you can become a
Speaker 1: licensee for these, it's called pizza for. So if you
Speaker 1: want to become your own little pizza lady, you can
Speaker 1: do it in whatever neighborhood you want. Anyway, that's something new.
Speaker 2: Is that like the bagged pizza at the Critics Choice
Speaker 2: Awards that everyone was laughing about it. But
Speaker 1: anyway, I was intrigued by it, but I, I read
Speaker 1: an article that says that the best things that I
Speaker 1: ate
Speaker 1: at the show and number one and two were ramen
Speaker 1: and stir fries, which I thought was fascinating. And this
Speaker 1: guy is a foodie and he said it was shocking
Speaker 1: how good they were and how fast they were prepared.
Speaker 1: Both of them in under two minutes. Anyway, point of
Speaker 1: my story, we might just see things like that with
Speaker 1: the cost of labor and you know, everything else that's
Speaker 1: a possibility, good or bad. I'm not gonna weigh in
Speaker 1: on it. But, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting that those two foods were the
Speaker 1: best that this guy tasted. So keep an eye out
Speaker 1: for
Speaker 2: interesting vending machines beyond the Cheetos
Speaker 1: as far as restaurants go. Uh We wrote a story
Speaker 1: a while back again, it was uh a guy named
Speaker 1: Danny Meyer who most of you listeners know who he is. He,
Speaker 1: he actually coined the phrase and he put the thought
Speaker 1: out on a, on a tweet that says six o'clock
Speaker 1: is the new eight o'clock
Speaker 1: and that early reservations are where all the action is.
Speaker 1: And that you remember how the eight o'clock reservation was,
Speaker 1: that was it. If you got the coveted eight o'clock reservation,
Speaker 1: you were the God, you were solid and now it's
Speaker 1: gone the other way. And I think some of this
Speaker 1: is pandemic related. Everybody's just getting out at different times.
Speaker 1: Those of you out there that make reservations have probably
Speaker 1: seen this, that the 530
Speaker 1: six o'clock reservations sell out before the 738. And
Speaker 2: I am in that camp. I am, I always joke
Speaker 2: around that. I'm an early bird diner looking for my
Speaker 2: decaf and my trout almondine, but I love it. And
Speaker 2: I think that goes hand in hand with probably a
Speaker 2: trend we've seen for a couple of years now that
Speaker 2: people are dining out with their kids, they're dining out
Speaker 2: as families and
Speaker 2: you wanna make sure you're home in time for bed,
Speaker 2: you know, for their bedtime. So, or if you have
Speaker 2: to get a sitter, you have to do an early one.
Speaker 2: And I think they're great
Speaker 1: and those of us without kids are dining out at
Speaker 1: happy hour and we're hanging out at 5530 then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden we can have that six o'clock reservation
Speaker 1: and it all works out great. We're all
Speaker 2: just tired. I think that's what it boils down to.
Speaker 2: We're all just painfully tired.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about, uh, service trends. There's been some changes. Uh,
Speaker 1: one of them that I thought was interesting was what
Speaker 1: I'll call hybrid restaurants that are part table service and
Speaker 1: part fast casual counter service. And, and I, I, uh,
Speaker 1: specifically talking about a place called Momo out in Rock
Speaker 1: Hill
Speaker 1: and he always wanted table service, but he couldn't do
Speaker 1: it because he didn't have the labor to do it.
Speaker 1: So we started off as a fast casual restaurant
Speaker 1: and that was going very well. But there are still
Speaker 1: people that wanted full service. So, what has he done?
Speaker 1: And I think there's gonna, you're gonna see more of
Speaker 1: this part of the restaurant is full service and another
Speaker 1: part is counter service. So no matter what, how much
Speaker 1: you want to be waited on or how much you
Speaker 1: want to be left alone, you can be happy at
Speaker 1: a place called Momo. And I think that
Speaker 1: again, it, it's hard to staff a place. Restaurant guys
Speaker 1: don't like to do it. And, and, uh, restaurant folks
Speaker 1: sometimes want the attention sometimes they don't. So, I think
Speaker 1: these hybrid restaurants, I think you're going to see more
Speaker 1: of this because there are people that love fast casual
Speaker 1: service and there are people that love full service and
Speaker 1: this is a way to cross
Speaker 2: over and sometimes the same person loves them both, depending
Speaker 2: on their day. Exactly. So,
Speaker 2: I think it allows you to become loyal and become
Speaker 2: a regular at a restaurant, depending on, you know, what
Speaker 2: you need and what you want that particular day.
Speaker 1: And then some of these places that are fast casual
Speaker 1: have a, you know, incorporate a QR code somehow. Some
Speaker 1: way some of them are at the table, some of
Speaker 1: them are at the, you walk in and you scan
Speaker 1: the QR code for the menu.
Speaker 1: You're, you're making a face over there. So get me
Speaker 2: started on QR Code. I hate them. I hate them
Speaker 2: so much. Let me back up. I recognize that there
Speaker 2: are some positives to them. I recognize the sustainability issue
Speaker 2: of not having to print menus. I recognize, you know,
Speaker 2: you don't want somebody's funk on your hands when you're
Speaker 2: picking up a menu. You know, it just seems a
Speaker 2: little more sanitary or
Speaker 2: are kind of post
Speaker 1: COVID or yeah, it was, it was a COVID reaction
Speaker 1: and it was a good one.
Speaker 2: The thing I don't like about them is when you
Speaker 2: scan a QR code, you are holding your device in
Speaker 2: your hand, your eyes are downcast and you are interacting
Speaker 2: with your device. You're not interacting with the person. I
Speaker 2: think that's a great point across from you. So I
Speaker 2: feel like it really takes that communal aspect out of dining.
Speaker 2: I find them very hard.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not looking at my server, I'm not
Speaker 2: looking at my dining companion. I'm looking at my phone
Speaker 2: and maybe I'm even talking to them while I'm doing it.
Speaker 2: But I just feel like such a phone zombie when
Speaker 2: I'm doing it and it, it drives me crazy and
Speaker 2: especially when you're talking about wanting. What appetizer are we
Speaker 2: gonna have? What are you doing for your first course?
Speaker 2: You're not looking someone in the eye. It takes that
Speaker 2: human connection out. I
Speaker 1: totally agree in, in, in, in a similar vein.
Speaker 1: Uh I've noticed this, you know, we go to websites
Speaker 1: to look for the menu. It's this, it's what everybody
Speaker 1: judges AAA restaurant on us. Show me the menu. What
Speaker 1: do you, what do you got to offer? And instead
Speaker 1: of seeing a, you know, verbiage menu, you see, scan
Speaker 1: this QR code for the menu. So you're looking at
Speaker 1: your laptop and now you have to get out a
Speaker 1: phone to check out the menu and I go,
Speaker 1: you know what? This is too much. I, I don't
Speaker 1: think we're, we're, we're there yet. We have not arrived
Speaker 1: at that doomed doorstep. I think when you just have to,
Speaker 1: when you don't have to print a menu on a,
Speaker 1: on a website anymore. I think it's, I think it's wrong. So, and,
Speaker 1: and this kind of dovetails with the whole kiosk thing
Speaker 1: as far as self service and, and doing everything yourself. And, uh,
Speaker 1: are you a kiosk fan? When you walk into your
Speaker 1: favorite Taco Bell? Do you, do you go to the
Speaker 1: kiosk
Speaker 2: or? I hate them.
Speaker 2: I hate Kias too. But again, I'm a human connection.
Speaker 2: I do, I'm coming down hard on him, but I'm
Speaker 2: a human connection person. I like that hospitality. I like
Speaker 2: that interaction. Maybe I have a question about something and
Speaker 2: I always feel like those things are great until they're
Speaker 2: not great, which is about probably 65% of the time
Speaker 2: when they break down. And I don't know what my
Speaker 2: password is and this, that and the other and then
Speaker 2: I just sound like a,
Speaker 2: you know, grumpy old person waving my fist in the
Speaker 1: air. And I thought it was interesting. I think it
Speaker 1: was at a Taco Bell. I walk in and you
Speaker 1: go to Taco Bell. I feel like this is a segment.
Speaker 1: And uh, so I walk in and the counter person
Speaker 1: is also the cook and he yells out from the
Speaker 1: kitchen station, go ahead and use the kiosk and I'll
Speaker 1: take care of your order. And I thought, isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1: You know, there isn't a counter person at all anymore.
Speaker 1: So that again, we're, we're seeing a little change there.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 2: I'm going to admit my Taco Bell habit to you
Speaker 2: in the context of, I want crunchwrap,
Speaker 1: crunchwrap Supreme. I can't even say it, but I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm a
Speaker 2: classic crunchy taco kind of gal. Crunchy Taco Supreme.
Speaker 2: Um, the, uh, I tried to go through the drive
Speaker 2: through and they wouldn't let me place my order at
Speaker 2: the drive through. I had to actually order on an
Speaker 2: app to then pick up through the drive through. I
Speaker 1: thought, I think it's getting, I think it's getting a
Speaker 1: little too complicated, but I did see something I liked
Speaker 1: at the new shake shack out in de pair, you
Speaker 1: walk in and there's all kinds of, there's this, this
Speaker 1: bank of,
Speaker 1: of little, uh, kiosk machines and everybody's using them, but
Speaker 1: if you don't want to use them and there's a
Speaker 1: guy there that says, please use this kiosk. But if
Speaker 1: you want to go up to this counter, I can
Speaker 1: help you up there. And he's very gracious with an
Speaker 1: open hand. So again, this kind of hybrid model, we,
Speaker 1: we want you to use the kiosk, but we're not
Speaker 1: going to force you to use the kiosk. I like options.
Speaker 1: I think that's a, I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: OK. So you've like been, been getting down today, getting
Speaker 1: down and dirty and I, I have a, a trend
Speaker 1: to die for 2024. And there's gonna be people that
Speaker 1: are gonna take me to task for this. But I,
Speaker 1: I'm really tired of these giant
Speaker 1: eight inch tall sandwiches and I know about the Instagram
Speaker 1: ability and the appeal of them. They look great, but
Speaker 1: let's face it. There's no way to negotiate it. There's
Speaker 1: no way to eat it. I don't even know how
Speaker 1: you cut the thing in half. My contention is make
Speaker 1: them wider and not taller. I'd be fine with that.
Speaker 1: Just make it so that we can negotiate it.
Speaker 2: So we don't have to unhinge our jaw like a python.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 1: like you don't need a signal beacon on the top
Speaker 1: of the thing.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's my, that's my trend to die for 2024.
Speaker 1: Ok. So this week's micro rant, it's freezing cold out
Speaker 1: there today. We've all gone to restaurants that are entirely
Speaker 1: too cold in the winter. And I know you, we
Speaker 1: talked about this earlier. There's something that restaurants can do
Speaker 1: pretty easily that they don't do. And it drives me
Speaker 1: crazy why they don't do it.
Speaker 2: There is. And I actually, I think this is fresh
Speaker 2: in my mind because I just had this happen to
Speaker 2: me at an unnamed but very tasty restaurant
Speaker 2: that I went to last week where it's a small
Speaker 2: spot and the door opens and you get this Arctic
Speaker 2: blast no matter where you are sitting in the place.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker 2: the thing that that I find interesting is there is
Speaker 2: a simple solution for it. You don't have
Speaker 1: to build a breezeway. We're not saying to do that.
Speaker 1: Although
Speaker 2: that would be nice, it would be nice. But I've
Speaker 2: actually seen places do something as simple as they take
Speaker 2: a rounded curtain rod, shower curtain rod, something of that sort. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a half hoop, a half hoop
Speaker 2: and hang a curtain from it. It kind of gives
Speaker 2: you a little bit of a, a door space buffer.
Speaker 2: But even having that fabric there, like really thick, like
Speaker 2: velvet fabric, for instance, first of all, it looks nice
Speaker 2: and dramatic and secondly, it really makes a world of
Speaker 1: difference and I, you know, it can't be that expensive.
Speaker 1: The payback has to be instantaneous and let's face it
Speaker 1: when you walk through that curtain, it's like you've kind
Speaker 1: of got a big reveal. I think there's some value
Speaker 1: in that
Speaker 2: too. There's the drama of
Speaker 1: it. It's so, so restaurant owners think about that. You know, we,
Speaker 1: we're tired of stamping our feet in the winter time
Speaker 1: and it's really an easy problem to
Speaker 2: solve. I bet you could solve that problem for 20 bucks.
Speaker 1: Where are you getting your velvet?
Speaker 2: Right. Amazon. Don't tell
Speaker 1: anyone. And on that chilling note, this brings this episode
Speaker 1: of our cheats to a close. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: There are links in the show notes to all the
Speaker 1: places we talked about. Today, we encourage you to follow
Speaker 1: arch cheats and share us with your friends. And remember
Speaker 1: that we put out a new episode every other week.
Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our newsletters at STL mag
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