WEBVTT - Digging Into Native Plants and Gardens 0:00:00.009 --> 0:00:03.150 Welcome to the House of Blue podcast. I'm your host 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.629 Veronica Theodoro. Today we're talking about native gardens and landscapes. 0:00:08.970 --> 0:00:11.850 Is it just me or do you also feel like 0:00:11.859 --> 0:00:15.340 the topic of native plants is growing in popularity? 0:00:15.829 --> 0:00:20.349 Well, today we have two local experts here to talk 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.370 to us about natives and why this is such an 0:00:23.379 --> 0:00:28.690 important topic. First up is Shannon Callahan. Shannon is an 0:00:28.700 --> 0:00:33.610 outreach specialist at Bring Conservation Home, a local nonprofit that 0:00:33.770 --> 0:00:37.708 provides on site advice to private landowners about how they 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.919 can restore native plant and animal habitats to their property. 0:00:42.450 --> 0:00:46.270 She's worked for the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, the 0:00:46.279 --> 0:00:50.459 Missouri Department of Conservation and at the Donald Danforth Plant 0:00:50.470 --> 0:00:51.549 Science Center, 0:00:52.168 --> 0:00:56.849 landscape designer, Susie Vander Reet is the owner of Saint 0:00:56.860 --> 0:01:02.090 Louis native plants where she offers consultations, landscape design and 0:01:02.099 --> 0:01:08.889 education about native species, talks, presentations and tours. They're here 0:01:08.900 --> 0:01:12.190 to talk about why we should all care more about 0:01:12.199 --> 0:01:17.500 native flowers, shrubs and trees. But first, some news from 0:01:17.510 --> 0:01:19.529 the four corners of the house. 0:01:20.110 --> 0:01:23.649 This episode of House of Loo is sponsored by ST 0:01:23.660 --> 0:01:28.050 Louis symphony orchestra. I've been moving some furniture around my 0:01:28.059 --> 0:01:33.849 house lately. I own an antique secretary that I want 0:01:33.860 --> 0:01:35.809 to convert into a bar 0:01:36.629 --> 0:01:39.099 for the last, I don't know how many years it's 0:01:39.110 --> 0:01:43.650 been on my second floor gathering dust and I just 0:01:43.660 --> 0:01:46.848 want to find a better use for it. And I 0:01:46.860 --> 0:01:51.080 recently called Sue Wheeler, um, who came over to talk 0:01:51.089 --> 0:01:56.279 with me about refinishing the piece. And so we've decided 0:01:56.290 --> 0:01:59.809 that she's going to strip it, sand it and we're 0:01:59.819 --> 0:02:02.319 gonna come up with a custom stain for it. And 0:02:02.330 --> 0:02:04.360 I'm so excited about this. 0:02:04.790 --> 0:02:11.859 Um I'm also adding antique mirror behind the shelves. And um, 0:02:12.050 --> 0:02:15.788 a reader, actually, a reader from my newsletter 0:02:16.258 --> 0:02:19.799 wrote to me suggesting that I call Dave at County 0:02:19.809 --> 0:02:25.740 Glass on Manchester. Thank you so much, Susan for that recommendation. 0:02:25.750 --> 0:02:29.179 I love it when my readers can give me insight 0:02:29.190 --> 0:02:32.820 on who to call for my particular projects at home. 0:02:32.910 --> 0:02:37.320 So if you subscribe to my email newsletter, you probably 0:02:37.330 --> 0:02:41.960 know that I have a desire to rebuild the iron 0:02:41.970 --> 0:02:43.880 awning above my front door. 0:02:44.270 --> 0:02:47.649 Like a lot of old Saint Louis houses. A few 0:02:47.660 --> 0:02:51.850 of the original architectural elements have been stripped from the 0:02:51.860 --> 0:02:55.668 house over the years. And I really feel like that 0:02:55.679 --> 0:02:59.949 this house needs its awning back. So my mission is 0:02:59.960 --> 0:03:03.770 to have that in place by May of this 0:03:03.875 --> 0:03:08.615 year. But my husband reminded me that there's no point 0:03:08.625 --> 0:03:12.294 in moving forward on that project until we repair and 0:03:12.304 --> 0:03:16.294 waterproof the tile work on the front porch. So that 0:03:16.304 --> 0:03:21.065 it doesn't keep cracking and buckling. So the awning is 0:03:21.074 --> 0:03:24.535 on hiatus for a little bit and that's just the 0:03:24.544 --> 0:03:27.384 way things go with old houses. You think you've got 0:03:27.395 --> 0:03:28.053 a plan 0:03:28.339 --> 0:03:30.758 and then you realize that you're about one or two 0:03:30.770 --> 0:03:34.360 steps ahead of yourself. I'll be posting pictures of the 0:03:34.369 --> 0:03:40.240 porch secretary and eventually the awning in my newsletter and 0:03:40.250 --> 0:03:41.320 on social media. 0:03:43.169 --> 0:03:47.470 And now on to today's interviews. My first guest today 0:03:47.479 --> 0:03:52.869 is Shannon Callahan, an outreach specialist at Bring Conservation Home. 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.630 Thank you, Shannon for joining us today. Thank you so 0:03:55.639 --> 0:03:58.070 much for having me on. This is so exciting for 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.070 those listeners who may not be familiar with your organization. 0:04:03.339 --> 0:04:05.300 Can you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah. 0:04:05.309 --> 0:04:08.070 So Brain Conservation Home is a program through the Saint 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:09.550 Louis Audubon Society. 0:04:09.899 --> 0:04:12.860 And uh BC H Brain Conservation Home was founded about 0:04:12.869 --> 0:04:16.678 11 years ago back in 2012 with the goal of 0:04:16.690 --> 0:04:20.640 offering guidance and expertise to homeowners and how to convert 0:04:20.649 --> 0:04:24.950 their traditional landscaping to native landscaping using native plants. 0:04:25.450 --> 0:04:28.209 Um So over the last decade, it's evolved to a 0:04:28.220 --> 0:04:30.059 little bit more than that, but that's really our, our 0:04:30.070 --> 0:04:34.670 fundamental mission uh at its core. Now, is that a 0:04:34.678 --> 0:04:39.459 national organization or is that a Saint Louis organization? I'm 0:04:39.470 --> 0:04:41.970 proud to say this is Saint Louis local. Um Audubon 0:04:41.980 --> 0:04:46.309 obviously is a national organization with local city chapters and 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.750 there are other programs similar to BC H elsewhere. But 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.549 um our Saint Louis chapter here for conservation home is 0:04:52.559 --> 0:04:54.390 unique in its name, its founding 0:04:54.829 --> 0:04:58.359 and our, our reach within the region. And I'm proud 0:04:58.369 --> 0:05:01.040 to say that we've actually helped other ones start elsewhere. 0:05:01.309 --> 0:05:04.799 And I know that your focus is on native and 0:05:04.809 --> 0:05:08.579 invasive plant management. What does that mean? First of all, 0:05:08.589 --> 0:05:12.719 educating people on invasive plants, so many people aren't aware 0:05:12.730 --> 0:05:14.118 of the plants in their yard. 0:05:14.428 --> 0:05:16.720 You're not taught plant id uh as part of your 0:05:16.730 --> 0:05:20.130 general education like in, in high school. So a large 0:05:20.140 --> 0:05:21.890 part of what I do is show up to people's 0:05:21.899 --> 0:05:24.450 property and just walk them through what they already have. 0:05:24.459 --> 0:05:27.140 And often they're surprised to find that they actually have 0:05:27.149 --> 0:05:30.070 a great number of invasive species on their property. What 0:05:30.079 --> 0:05:33.329 I mean by invasive species is a non native plant. 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.450 So not from North America that is aggressive to the 0:05:37.459 --> 0:05:39.000 point where it actually 0:05:39.519 --> 0:05:43.609 out competes and is detrimental to the surrounding environment. So 0:05:43.619 --> 0:05:45.890 it's going to out compete our native plants and keep 0:05:45.899 --> 0:05:48.799 them at bay. Um And why that's really a problem 0:05:48.809 --> 0:05:52.299 is our native insects can't them, they can't eat them. 0:05:52.309 --> 0:05:55.899 And so our insects are dwindling and populations are declining. 0:05:56.380 --> 0:05:58.619 And I mean, you go up the food chain that, 0:05:58.630 --> 0:06:01.420 that affects the things that eat the insects. So um 0:06:01.428 --> 0:06:04.880 that's step number one is tackling invasive species and then 0:06:05.140 --> 0:06:09.329 replacing those invasive species with helpful native plants. So that's 0:06:09.369 --> 0:06:12.238 really what we focus on can anybody pick up the 0:06:12.250 --> 0:06:15.959 phone or send you an email and ask to be 0:06:15.970 --> 0:06:19.099 put on your schedule? Yeah, for sure. Um, even people 0:06:19.109 --> 0:06:21.459 who don't own their own property, if you're a renter 0:06:21.470 --> 0:06:23.000 or you're interested in just 0:06:23.100 --> 0:06:26.019 container gardening, like, you know, pots out on a balcony, 0:06:26.309 --> 0:06:29.899 we're able to tailor our consultation to anyone like that. So, 0:06:29.910 --> 0:06:33.589 you go to our website, we unfortunately are very popular 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.480 and have about a six month waitlist, which we're hoping 0:06:36.488 --> 0:06:39.738 to get down as capacity grows. But that's just where 0:06:39.750 --> 0:06:42.159 we're at currently. And yeah, we are able to come 0:06:42.170 --> 0:06:45.159 out and do a very in depth consultation on site 0:06:45.170 --> 0:06:48.630 and then send a very in depth report uh in 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:49.660 response to that. 0:06:50.059 --> 0:06:53.290 And is that, is there a cost to that? So 0:06:53.299 --> 0:06:57.510 yes and no, there is a sliding fee scale which 0:06:57.519 --> 0:07:00.640 is new as of this year and we suggest an 0:07:00.649 --> 0:07:03.760 $80 donation. That's kind of like the true cost of 0:07:03.769 --> 0:07:04.678 our consultation, 0:07:05.410 --> 0:07:08.010 but we really accept whatever is comfortable for you. So 0:07:08.019 --> 0:07:11.130 if less is what you can do or nothing is 0:07:11.140 --> 0:07:13.420 what you know, you can do. At that moment, we 0:07:13.429 --> 0:07:18.149 have supplemental funding through Department of Conservation through various native 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.049 plant growers in the area that um are able to 0:07:21.059 --> 0:07:23.260 cover the difference. And what we're finding with 0:07:23.350 --> 0:07:27.369 this new sliding fee scale we've introduced is actually most 0:07:27.380 --> 0:07:30.380 people are over paying on the $80. We're receiving a 0:07:30.390 --> 0:07:35.299 lot of $100 plus donations, which is covering where, you know, 0:07:35.309 --> 0:07:38.929 maybe people are donating. And for those listeners who may 0:07:38.940 --> 0:07:41.200 not be familiar with 0:07:42.239 --> 0:07:46.660 native landscapes and native gardens, why is it an important 0:07:46.670 --> 0:07:50.549 topic or subject matter? So, like I mentioned earlier with 0:07:50.559 --> 0:07:53.410 invasive species, it all boils down to the food chain. 0:07:53.690 --> 0:07:58.850 So our native insects and therefore our native pollinators can't 0:07:58.859 --> 0:08:01.140 use non native plants. So 0:08:01.850 --> 0:08:03.989 people at some point in the last, you know, couple 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.470 centuries determined that this very European looking traditional landscaping is 0:08:08.510 --> 0:08:11.750 the social norm, is like the standard. And so we 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.950 have all these non native plants from Europe and Asia 0:08:14.420 --> 0:08:18.239 that aren't eaten by insects which most people may hear 0:08:18.250 --> 0:08:20.359 and think. Ok, that's a good thing, right? My plants 0:08:20.369 --> 0:08:22.989 aren't full of holes, but when it's not being eaten, 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.140 it's not being used, it's not supporting wildlife. 0:08:26.540 --> 0:08:29.399 Um And it's really separating that area, the urban area 0:08:29.410 --> 0:08:32.409 from the habitat in the area. And so if you're 0:08:32.419 --> 0:08:34.950 not having native insects don't have the things that eat 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.919 the insects, birds, specifically chicks, adult birds often can eat 0:08:39.929 --> 0:08:42.718 seeds and other sources of food. But chicks really do 0:08:42.729 --> 0:08:46.419 need caterpillars that, that high protein caterpillar to eat. But 0:08:46.429 --> 0:08:50.869 I have um kind of a an interesting little like 0:08:50.950 --> 0:08:52.979 study that was done that I think you might find 0:08:52.989 --> 0:08:54.200 interesting here. So, 0:08:54.750 --> 0:08:56.880 um I'm gonna be referring to Doctor Doug Talam me 0:08:56.890 --> 0:08:59.559 quite a bit during this likely and he is an 0:08:59.570 --> 0:09:04.069 Ecologist entomologist out of Delaware who has done just a 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.330 ton of research on how native landscaping really does impact 0:09:08.340 --> 0:09:09.549 wildlife populations. 0:09:10.090 --> 0:09:13.189 So, he looked at a nest of chickadees in his yard. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.289 Chickadees are a very small songbird. Oh, ok. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:17.299 --> 0:09:20.049 I'm full disclosure. I work for Audubon. I know next 0:09:20.059 --> 0:09:22.760 to nothing about birds. I'm a plant person. Um, so 0:09:22.770 --> 0:09:25.210 chickadees are very small. They're like about a third of 0:09:25.219 --> 0:09:28.449 an ounce weight wise, so very, very small. So when 0:09:28.460 --> 0:09:31.500 they're raising a nest, both parents help in feeding the 0:09:31.510 --> 0:09:34.049 chicks and they take turns leaving the nest to go 0:09:34.059 --> 0:09:36.630 get a caterpillar every 1 to 3 minutes, they bring 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:37.830 back a single caterpillar. 0:09:38.270 --> 0:09:40.869 They do that from about 6 a.m. to about 8 p.m. 0:09:40.890 --> 0:09:44.450 On average for 16 to 18 days, that's a total 0:09:44.460 --> 0:09:48.929 of about 350 to 570 caterpillars per day depending on 0:09:48.940 --> 0:09:51.159 how many chicks they have. So, in total to raise 0:09:51.169 --> 0:09:54.760 a single nest of chickadees, you're looking at around 6000 0:09:54.770 --> 0:09:58.409 to 9000 caterpillars and that's one nest of chickadees. So 0:09:58.419 --> 0:10:01.689 think about larger birds, right? Your blue jays, your cardinals, 0:10:01.700 --> 0:10:05.469 your woodpeckers. So if you don't have those native caterpillars, 0:10:05.979 --> 0:10:07.770 what are they eating or not? 0:10:08.309 --> 0:10:10.179 Kind of what it boils down to is supporting the 0:10:10.190 --> 0:10:13.098 food chain, the food web and supporting wildlife. But it 0:10:13.109 --> 0:10:15.799 really does go beyond that. Um You can solve a 0:10:15.809 --> 0:10:18.530 lot of storm water problems or erosion problems in your 0:10:18.539 --> 0:10:23.309 yard using native plants that absorb the runoff. Yeah, they 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.250 absorb runoff, they hold soil in place. I know I 0:10:26.260 --> 0:10:28.849 live in South City. Um I'm sure a lot of 0:10:28.859 --> 0:10:32.250 listeners can relate to that. Like very small, very steep 0:10:32.260 --> 0:10:35.369 South City Hill that is so typical of those neighborhoods. 0:10:35.950 --> 0:10:39.150 Um Erosion can be a really big problem and bowing. 0:10:39.159 --> 0:10:42.559 That hill is insane to try to push a lawn 0:10:42.570 --> 0:10:45.419 mower up and down. Um So converting that to some 0:10:45.429 --> 0:10:48.289 kind of native landscaping where you don't have to mow, 0:10:48.299 --> 0:10:51.140 but it's holding soil in place and it's, it's capturing 0:10:51.150 --> 0:10:55.030 rainwater run off and, and that's what they refer to 0:10:55.039 --> 0:10:57.169 as rewilding. 0:10:57.599 --> 0:11:00.809 Yeah. Yeah. In a way, I've, I've seen that term. Yeah. 0:11:00.830 --> 0:11:04.468 Ril there's so many different buzzwords around like native landscaping. Rewilding, 0:11:04.479 --> 0:11:07.059 I think kind of has this connotation of 0:11:07.799 --> 0:11:10.539 like the Pocket Prairie, the very um 0:11:11.460 --> 0:11:15.440 wild looking. Yes. And I say this with love. This 0:11:15.450 --> 0:11:18.000 is what my own front yard looks like. Um, you know, 0:11:18.010 --> 0:11:22.520 4 ft tall wildflowers and it looks more wild, more natural. 0:11:22.830 --> 0:11:25.210 Um But there are definitely ways and I'm sure we 0:11:25.219 --> 0:11:27.400 can talk about this more where it looks 0:11:27.929 --> 0:11:33.270 more intentional. It looks more like a traditional suburban landscape 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.969 but still using native species and still accomplishing those single goals. 0:11:36.979 --> 0:11:41.760 And what would one use to achieve that particular look? 0:11:41.770 --> 0:11:46.439 Is that ground cover when someone asks us for, um, 0:11:46.450 --> 0:11:49.789 a Tidier look, um, or, you know, they don't wanna, 0:11:49.799 --> 0:11:52.809 I like to joke, be that house on the block, right? 0:11:52.820 --> 0:11:54.630 Because I am that house on the block. 0:11:54.950 --> 0:11:59.090 I recommend there are certain species like different wildflowers that 0:11:59.099 --> 0:12:02.119 are gonna max out m height, they're not gonna get 0:12:02.809 --> 0:12:04.978 so, so many of our prairie plants can be five 0:12:04.989 --> 0:12:08.669 plus feet tall. Um, so I'm recommending plants that maybe 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.669 stay around 3 ft. They grow kind of bushier rather 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.770 than scraggly. Um, They're less likely to spread many of 0:12:17.780 --> 0:12:19.189 our native wildflowers 0:12:19.669 --> 0:12:22.890 will readily self seed into an area which is fantastic 0:12:22.900 --> 0:12:25.330 if that's what you're prepared for. But if you're going 0:12:25.340 --> 0:12:28.608 for a more traditional sub urban look, there, there is, 0:12:28.619 --> 0:12:30.690 you know, something to be said about being able to 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.329 plant something and it stays there. Um 0:12:34.059 --> 0:12:36.500 Or there's plenty of native shrubs where a lot of 0:12:36.510 --> 0:12:40.520 what we're doing is offering recommendations to replace honeysuckle or 0:12:40.530 --> 0:12:46.150 burning bush or non invasive but not native boxwoods and um, 0:12:46.159 --> 0:12:49.919 you shrubs or Japanese maples and things like that. So 0:12:49.929 --> 0:12:54.359 it's incredible that you can get the look of a boxwood, 0:12:54.369 --> 0:12:55.479 for example, 0:12:56.179 --> 0:13:00.729 by using a native. Yeah. Planned. Yeah, there's a species, 0:13:00.739 --> 0:13:03.840 a shrubby Saint John's work, which is a shrub that 0:13:03.849 --> 0:13:07.739 is our go to recommendation specifically for a boxwood look alike. 0:13:07.929 --> 0:13:10.820 Um It's not evergreen like a boxwood, but it does 0:13:10.830 --> 0:13:11.189 leaf out 0:13:11.234 --> 0:13:14.604 very early and stay green very late compared to our 0:13:14.614 --> 0:13:18.335 other deciduous shrubs and has a very similar look. Um 0:13:18.344 --> 0:13:20.505 And I'd argue. Um actually much better look because they 0:13:20.515 --> 0:13:23.885 have these really huge beautiful flowers. And I love to 0:13:23.895 --> 0:13:26.265 tell the story about I was on a site visit 0:13:26.534 --> 0:13:28.164 and two houses away, 0:13:28.729 --> 0:13:31.570 a neighbor of this person had a mass planting of 0:13:31.580 --> 0:13:34.130 shrubby Saint John's Wart and it was in bloom from 0:13:34.140 --> 0:13:36.710 two houses away. I could hear the buzz. Oh my God, 0:13:36.719 --> 0:13:39.210 that's how many pollinators were on this mass of shrubs. 0:13:39.219 --> 0:13:41.530 And it was just the perfect example to be showing 0:13:41.539 --> 0:13:43.020 the steward that I was talking to at the, at 0:13:43.030 --> 0:13:45.780 that time. Like, hey, this is why we're doing it. 0:13:45.789 --> 0:13:48.549 Like you can hear all the pollinators from over there. 0:13:49.039 --> 0:13:52.979 I'd be curious to know what, what you hear on 0:13:52.989 --> 0:14:00.260 these site visits from, um, from homeowners, gardeners. What surprises them? 0:14:00.270 --> 0:14:04.260 What questions do they have? What are their worries 0:14:04.565 --> 0:14:09.335 or their concerns? Um Anything come to mind? Yeah, for sure. 0:14:09.494 --> 0:14:12.465 I will say that I hear the same things over 0:14:12.474 --> 0:14:15.114 and over and yet I never have the same visit twice. 0:14:15.315 --> 0:14:17.135 It's kind of interesting. So I hear a lot of 0:14:17.145 --> 0:14:21.484 the same worries or concerns, but everyone is coming from 0:14:21.494 --> 0:14:24.674 a different perspective. So, so many people reach out to 0:14:24.684 --> 0:14:24.974 us 0:14:25.570 --> 0:14:29.229 because they're bird watchers and they kind, they asked themselves well, 0:14:29.239 --> 0:14:30.729 how do I get more birds in my yard? I'm 0:14:30.739 --> 0:14:34.609 tired of just seeing cardinals and robins and does. Um, 0:14:34.619 --> 0:14:38.330 and through that research they find, oh, I need caterpillars 0:14:38.340 --> 0:14:40.750 and that's how they find us. Um And so they, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.729 they come to us from like a support wildlife perspective, 0:14:44.739 --> 0:14:48.590 which is great. And then there are other people who 0:14:49.059 --> 0:14:52.039 they live further out near like wild water Chesterfield and 0:14:52.119 --> 0:14:55.119 all their landscaping is being eaten by deer people, right? Um, 0:14:55.130 --> 0:14:57.630 and so they have us. Yeah. So they have us 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.000 come out. And unfortunately for that one, we don't have 0:15:00.010 --> 0:15:03.630 a magic answer for how to, you know, deer are everywhere. But, um, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.700 they kind of reach to us. They reach us from 0:15:05.710 --> 0:15:08.909 that perspective. We have people who reach out because they 0:15:08.919 --> 0:15:11.960 can't get anything to grow in their very shady yard, 0:15:11.969 --> 0:15:14.489 erosion and storm water problems are another big reason people 0:15:14.500 --> 0:15:18.580 reach out something else is MS D. The sanitation 0:15:18.655 --> 0:15:24.075 department has a small grant program called Project Clear. That 0:15:24.085 --> 0:15:27.414 is an incentive program to have people convert areas of 0:15:27.424 --> 0:15:31.034 their property to native landscaping to increase storm water usage 0:15:31.044 --> 0:15:33.664 on your own property. So a lot of people find 0:15:33.674 --> 0:15:35.914 out about that and then reach out to us to 0:15:36.094 --> 0:15:39.734 try to kind of start that process. I'm sure that 0:15:39.744 --> 0:15:42.974 can be several $1000 worth of reimbursement for them to 0:15:42.984 --> 0:15:43.434 do 0:15:43.890 --> 0:15:48.690 this complete rehab of their landscaping. Oh, wow. Incredible. And 0:15:48.700 --> 0:15:50.510 from what I understand, as you said, you have a 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.750 six month wait, give or take, give or take or so. And, um, 0:15:56.169 --> 0:16:00.940 this year you've had about 100 and 55 site visits 0:16:01.599 --> 0:16:05.700 is that pretty average for you or? Yeah. So that's 0:16:05.710 --> 0:16:06.109 um 0:16:06.419 --> 0:16:09.599 this year was a bit of a transition year. I'm, 0:16:09.609 --> 0:16:12.150 I am new as of March. So there's definitely a 0:16:12.159 --> 0:16:14.280 learning curve for myself taking on a lot of these 0:16:14.289 --> 0:16:17.780 site visits about last year. I think they did about 0:16:18.239 --> 0:16:19.880 180 or so. 0:16:20.229 --> 0:16:22.229 Uh The year before that was again, about 100 and 0:16:22.239 --> 0:16:26.229 50 pandemic year actually reached much higher because they were 0:16:26.239 --> 0:16:30.030 doing virtual visits. Oh, That's not something we're planning on 0:16:30.039 --> 0:16:32.590 doing anytime soon. It just, it really, we do need 0:16:32.599 --> 0:16:34.880 to be on site and be able to walk around and, 0:16:34.890 --> 0:16:38.270 and figure out sun conditions and everything. But um so yeah, it's, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.849 it's definitely about 100 and 50 plus site visits a year. 0:16:42.770 --> 0:16:47.349 Do you find that there's a particular neighborhood or area 0:16:47.359 --> 0:16:51.000 of Saint Louis where you get a majority of your 0:16:51.010 --> 0:16:56.190 phone calls or emails? Yeah. Yeah. So we're definitely the 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.270 top three zip codes I would say are Webster Groves, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.700 Kirkwood U City. Um Those are very popular. We're very 0:17:02.710 --> 0:17:03.400 popular there. 0:17:03.919 --> 0:17:08.040 Um South City, especially like Tower Grove area. We're very 0:17:08.050 --> 0:17:11.270 present there, which is great. Um Something we're really proud 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.589 of is actually this year, we've done a lot more 0:17:13.599 --> 0:17:16.140 site visits up in like North City and we call 0:17:16.150 --> 0:17:20.579 those tier one areas. Tier one is uh partnership with 0:17:20.589 --> 0:17:24.229 Department of Conservation M DC that we've kind of both 0:17:24.239 --> 0:17:26.879 identified these areas of the Saint Louis metro area that 0:17:26.890 --> 0:17:29.569 are being underserved, both by M DC and by our 0:17:29.579 --> 0:17:30.458 own program. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.030 And so we developed this partnership with M DC that 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.449 they are covering the fees entirely for these tier one areas, 0:17:37.699 --> 0:17:40.109 um which is a lot of North city, south city 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.319 that are like I said, traditionally underserved by these programs. 0:17:43.619 --> 0:17:48.050 So completely free, no donation even suggested or expected for 0:17:48.060 --> 0:17:51.619 these areas and you get ABC H consultation. So in 0:17:51.630 --> 0:17:56.439 past years, it's ranged from two visits, tier one areas 0:17:56.449 --> 0:17:58.339 up to like I think the most was seven. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.310 Um in past years, this year we did 17 and 0:18:01.319 --> 0:18:03.569 how are you getting the word out? Yeah. So this 0:18:03.579 --> 0:18:05.579 year with the 17 site visits, we do really have 0:18:05.589 --> 0:18:08.969 to credit the City of Jennings. We, they came up 0:18:08.979 --> 0:18:13.560 with this amazing Curb Appeal program contest that they, yeah, 0:18:13.569 --> 0:18:16.389 they partnered with M DC and VCH and a couple 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.280 of their entities and provided free plants to people who 0:18:20.290 --> 0:18:21.790 signed up for this program. And 0:18:21.939 --> 0:18:25.250 part of it was ABC H consultation and report that 0:18:25.260 --> 0:18:28.079 we went really in depth over the different species they 0:18:28.089 --> 0:18:30.709 were eligible for. And we helped kind of curate the 0:18:30.780 --> 0:18:33.910 collection of, oh, you have a sunny yard, you're gonna 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:35.869 get this set of species or you have a very 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.060 shady yard, you're gonna get a different set of species 0:18:38.069 --> 0:18:40.709 because you can't just expect the shade plants to work 0:18:40.719 --> 0:18:42.760 well on the sun yard, right? And we're also in 0:18:42.770 --> 0:18:45.079 the process of forming a partner 0:18:45.459 --> 0:18:49.489 to get free canopy trees out to tier one areas 0:18:49.500 --> 0:18:53.189 as well to restore that missing canopy layer. And what 0:18:53.199 --> 0:18:57.170 does the canopy tree provide other than shade is that, 0:18:57.180 --> 0:19:00.489 is that the reason why you want that particular type 0:19:00.500 --> 0:19:02.599 of tree out? I mean, part of it, you think 0:19:02.609 --> 0:19:05.978 about how much you rely on shade in the summer, 0:19:05.989 --> 0:19:08.060 especially in, um 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:10.659 you know, I like to equate to, I used to 0:19:10.670 --> 0:19:13.399 live in the Tower Grove neighborhood and walking my dog 0:19:13.410 --> 0:19:17.239 in the summer with all those huge trees was no problem. 0:19:17.250 --> 0:19:19.900 I enjoyed doing that. I've since moved to a different 0:19:19.910 --> 0:19:23.170 neighborhood in South City where that canopy tree layer is 0:19:23.180 --> 0:19:25.930 not there and I will not walk my dogs in 0:19:25.939 --> 0:19:28.810 the summer all suns up. Um There's a substantial, it's 0:19:28.819 --> 0:19:32.000 called the heat island effect, but there's a substantial temperature 0:19:32.010 --> 0:19:34.010 difference when you're missing that canopy layer. 0:19:34.300 --> 0:19:37.199 So what we found is a lot of these tier 0:19:37.209 --> 0:19:40.339 one areas, people maybe can't afford to take care of 0:19:40.349 --> 0:19:44.489 these large canopy trees over the years, they've just been 0:19:44.500 --> 0:19:48.139 removed in mass. You're just missing an entire canopy layer. 0:19:48.150 --> 0:19:50.619 And that's important for wildlife. Birds need a variety of 0:19:50.630 --> 0:19:53.800 canopy layers. So we always encourage people to have all 0:19:53.810 --> 0:19:58.439 four canopy layers, ground shrubs, understory trees, large canopy trees. 0:19:58.704 --> 0:20:00.614 Yes. So if we can try to get them in 0:20:00.625 --> 0:20:03.574 the hands of people for free and help them with 0:20:03.584 --> 0:20:05.694 the the guidance of where to plant them, how to 0:20:05.704 --> 0:20:07.484 take care of them. We're happy to do that. Sounds 0:20:07.494 --> 0:20:10.474 like an incredible program. What are some of the events 0:20:10.484 --> 0:20:15.084 that your organization has planned for? 2024? Yeah. So every 0:20:15.094 --> 0:20:18.314 year we do a spring series which is, it's been 0:20:18.324 --> 0:20:22.534 growing and growing every single year. Just a pun intended. Yeah. Right. 0:20:22.959 --> 0:20:26.280 Um, it just gets bigger every single year. So it's, um, 0:20:26.290 --> 0:20:30.729 a series of webinars followed by an in person event, 0:20:30.739 --> 0:20:33.939 usually a plant sale with a series of speakers in person. 0:20:34.339 --> 0:20:37.140 And last year we had, I don't have those numbers 0:20:37.150 --> 0:20:38.770 directly in front of me. But last year we had, 0:20:38.780 --> 0:20:41.430 I want to say about 7000 people view our webinars 0:20:41.439 --> 0:20:44.479 because they're through the library system. Um And then they 0:20:44.489 --> 0:20:48.030 cover these webinars, they're different each year, but they cover 0:20:48.140 --> 0:20:51.229 a range of topics from like very introductory level. Hey, 0:20:51.239 --> 0:20:55.280 here's why native plants matter. Hm to very in depth, 0:20:55.599 --> 0:20:59.979 you know, container gardening with native plants or a panel 0:20:59.989 --> 0:21:02.630 of gardeners and what they do at their own house 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.349 or edible native plants. So really any kind of interest 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.589 you can access through these webinars which we are saving 0:21:08.599 --> 0:21:11.739 and uploading on our youtube channel. So those are accessible 0:21:11.750 --> 0:21:14.520 from previous years. And then like I said in person 0:21:14.530 --> 0:21:17.260 plant sale, we're really all about putting plants in, 0:21:17.839 --> 0:21:19.719 in someone's hand. Yeah. So if you can, if you 0:21:19.729 --> 0:21:21.718 can come and learn about plants and then take them 0:21:21.729 --> 0:21:24.689 home and actually plant them. That's like just us. What 0:21:24.699 --> 0:21:27.359 advice would you give to someone who's 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.020 interested in exploring native gardening in their own home? How 0:21:32.030 --> 0:21:35.409 should they, aside from calling you or emailing you and 0:21:35.420 --> 0:21:38.659 getting on that, wait list? What can they do? First 0:21:38.670 --> 0:21:40.969 of all, do you research on where to get native 0:21:40.979 --> 0:21:44.459 plants in the Saint Louis area? We are so incredibly 0:21:44.469 --> 0:21:46.319 lucky in Saint Louis. I'm not sure people are aware 0:21:46.329 --> 0:21:48.630 of this. We're kind of a hub for native plants 0:21:49.339 --> 0:21:51.859 in the country. Yeah, I'm not gonna go out and 0:21:51.869 --> 0:21:53.819 say that we're number one or anything, but we um 0:21:53.829 --> 0:21:57.079 coming myself, coming from Mount Saint Louis. Um and 0:21:57.579 --> 0:21:59.739 studying this for years, I can say like this is 0:21:59.750 --> 0:22:02.958 a really hot spot for this kind of activity. So 0:22:03.130 --> 0:22:07.000 we have a lot of native plant specific nurseries in 0:22:07.010 --> 0:22:09.139 Saint Louis. So I encourage you to go and get 0:22:09.150 --> 0:22:12.530 plants from a local grower, not a big box store, 0:22:12.540 --> 0:22:16.040 like a home improvement store, but a local native plant 0:22:16.050 --> 0:22:18.839 grower and those who those are are um We list 0:22:18.849 --> 0:22:21.359 them on our website and our partners and everything but 0:22:21.369 --> 0:22:23.319 go get a plant and try it. 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.650 Don't be afraid to fail because I do this for 0:22:26.660 --> 0:22:28.390 a living and I can't tell you how many plants 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.780 I've killed. Um It's all about finding the right fit 0:22:31.790 --> 0:22:34.390 for your environment and that's part of what BC H 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.520 is here. To do. But also it's about so many 0:22:37.530 --> 0:22:41.540 different variables that are sometimes just unforeseen. So it's about experimentation. 0:22:41.949 --> 0:22:45.849 Um It's about patience and it's really fun when things work. 0:22:45.859 --> 0:22:50.229 And do you have any personal insight into why Saint 0:22:50.239 --> 0:22:52.139 Louis is, as you said, 0:22:52.479 --> 0:22:54.879 a bit of a hub for native gardening. You know, 0:22:54.890 --> 0:22:57.640 I've been asked that so many times. I really don't. Um, 0:22:57.650 --> 0:23:01.430 I think just there with BC H being over a 0:23:01.439 --> 0:23:04.859 decade old, that's kind of, that was riding the very 0:23:04.869 --> 0:23:07.579 early waves. And so I think it's just been very 0:23:07.589 --> 0:23:11.079 well established with our various municipalities. U City and Bloom 0:23:11.089 --> 0:23:13.989 is a very well established. I, I wish I had 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:16.880 a better answer. I'm happy that it's great. But yeah, 0:23:16.910 --> 0:23:17.800 it's incredible 0:23:18.030 --> 0:23:21.410 win for Saint Louis for sure. I understand that there's 0:23:21.420 --> 0:23:25.800 a mental health component to living in an area with 0:23:25.810 --> 0:23:28.369 a lot of green space have. Do you find that 0:23:28.380 --> 0:23:30.780 to be true? Yeah, there's a lot of research coming 0:23:30.790 --> 0:23:34.698 out recently that shows a direct correlation between high quality 0:23:34.709 --> 0:23:38.159 natural area in green space and better mental health and 0:23:38.170 --> 0:23:42.449 lower stress levels. So that's just another benefit to increase 0:23:42.459 --> 0:23:45.859 native landscaping. Thank you so much for your time today. Yeah. 0:23:45.869 --> 0:23:47.849 Thank you so much for having me on it. So fun. 0:23:49.869 --> 0:23:51.050 We'll be right back. 0:23:52.790 --> 0:23:57.319 Join your Saint Louis symphony orchestra and music director, Stephane 0:23:57.329 --> 0:24:01.689 de Neve on February 2nd as international sensation and Saint 0:24:01.699 --> 0:24:06.839 Louis favorite violinist Augustin Hadle Returns. For Samuel Barber's lyrical 0:24:06.849 --> 0:24:08.140 violin concerto, 0:24:08.505 --> 0:24:13.004 then discover pioneer composer Florence Pearce's third symphony that blends 0:24:13.015 --> 0:24:17.395 passion with great tunes and danceable rhythms on February 2nd 0:24:17.405 --> 0:24:20.724 at Ump's Two Hill Performing Arts Center. Buy your tickets 0:24:20.734 --> 0:24:24.035 today at slso.org. 0:24:26.839 --> 0:24:30.780 And now for our next guest, Susie Vander, Ret of 0:24:30.790 --> 0:24:34.819 ST Louis Native Plants. Welcome to the studio. Thanks Veronica. 0:24:35.130 --> 0:24:39.790 I'm interested to know when and how you became interested 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:41.188 in native gardens. 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.859 So in 2009, I purchased my first home 0:24:45.349 --> 0:24:48.540 and uh when I first moved in there, I was 0:24:48.550 --> 0:24:51.459 looking at the landscape which is basically turf grass and 0:24:51.469 --> 0:24:54.560 some boxwood shrubs and then some live forever. We basically 0:24:54.569 --> 0:24:56.150 the only plants that were there and then a bunch 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:59.560 of weeds basically. And I was trying to figure out 0:24:59.569 --> 0:25:01.889 from asking friends and family kind of, what do I 0:25:01.900 --> 0:25:04.359 do with this? How do I take care of this? 0:25:04.369 --> 0:25:06.260 And what else can I put here? And a lot 0:25:06.270 --> 0:25:09.438 of the response that I got was, uh involved, 0:25:09.515 --> 0:25:13.454 you know, putting fertilizers down or lots of watering or 0:25:13.464 --> 0:25:16.525 just lots of maintenance. And, um, you know, I, I'm 0:25:16.535 --> 0:25:20.084 kind of a skeptical person by nature and so I, 0:25:20.104 --> 0:25:24.775 you know, consulted Google and a quick Google search of, 0:25:24.785 --> 0:25:28.464 you know, uh environmentally friendly or ecofriendly plants in Missouri 0:25:28.474 --> 0:25:32.074 yielded the result of Missouri native plants. And so that 0:25:32.084 --> 0:25:33.574 was how I originally stumbled on it. 0:25:33.969 --> 0:25:36.790 And I really, what drew me to it was that 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:40.000 they seemed like a more environmentally friendly plant that they 0:25:40.010 --> 0:25:40.469 could 0:25:40.810 --> 0:25:45.270 exist with our climate conditions and, um, that they didn't 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.899 need all of this extra water or fertilizing or, you know, 0:25:48.910 --> 0:25:51.239 weed killer or different things like that. They just didn't 0:25:51.250 --> 0:25:52.689 need that sort of treatment. And 0:25:52.699 --> 0:25:56.489 so, were you a gardener before you purchased the 0:25:56.500 --> 0:26:01.140 house? Not necessarily, um, I do, I guess it kind of, 0:26:01.300 --> 0:26:03.760 it runs in my veins a little bit. My grandpa, 0:26:03.770 --> 0:26:06.729 actually on my mom's side, worked at Missouri Botanical Gardens 0:26:06.739 --> 0:26:09.930 as their floriculture for 60 plus years, possibly until 0:26:10.201 --> 0:26:12.701 passed away. And so kind of, we've had a lot 0:26:12.711 --> 0:26:15.080 of exposure to it and my family gardened a fair 0:26:15.090 --> 0:26:18.010 amount uh in different ways, but uh I had not 0:26:18.020 --> 0:26:20.100 really done a whole lot myself at that point. 0:26:20.390 --> 0:26:23.181 Wow. And so what was that journey like for you? 0:26:23.191 --> 0:26:26.640 How did you go about that process of creating a 0:26:26.651 --> 0:26:28.191 native garden? It was a lot 0:26:28.201 --> 0:26:30.701 of fun. So, uh I just did, I did a 0:26:30.711 --> 0:26:33.401 lot of digging online and I consulted a lot of 0:26:33.411 --> 0:26:35.990 like any little rabbit hole that I would get led to. 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:37.730 I would go down. And so, you know, when I 0:26:37.740 --> 0:26:39.461 first stumbled across native plants, there were 0:26:39.592 --> 0:26:43.281 resources through uh Missouri Department of Conservation that I came across. 0:26:43.291 --> 0:26:44.741 And so I would, you know, kind of look at 0:26:44.751 --> 0:26:46.291 those a little bit and they would give a little 0:26:46.302 --> 0:26:49.131 bit of guidance on placement and what types of plants 0:26:49.141 --> 0:26:52.251 to use for like a bird garden. Uh And then 0:26:52.261 --> 0:26:54.861 I reached out to the Shan Nature Reserve, Scott Woodbury 0:26:54.871 --> 0:26:57.411 was working out there still at that time. And, um 0:26:57.421 --> 0:26:59.952 I asked him, you know about their native plant classes 0:26:59.962 --> 0:27:02.692 which were only offered during the date at that time. 0:27:02.702 --> 0:27:04.552 And I had a full time job. It's like, ok, 0:27:04.561 --> 0:27:07.181 so basically I need to wait until I'm retired to 0:27:07.192 --> 0:27:08.891 be able to get into this and learn more about this. 0:27:09.052 --> 0:27:11.483 And so then he pointed me in the direction of 0:27:11.493 --> 0:27:14.253 um the Saint Louis Audubon Society with their brain conservation 0:27:14.262 --> 0:27:17.363 home program because uh he thought that if I got 0:27:17.373 --> 0:27:20.022 involved as a habitat advisor with them, I could learn 0:27:20.032 --> 0:27:23.022 a lot about native plants specifically. And so I dove 0:27:23.032 --> 0:27:25.623 into that and learned it was online, it was through 0:27:25.633 --> 0:27:28.703 Grow Natives website. They have a lot of information there too, 0:27:28.713 --> 0:27:30.902 through the Shaw Nature Reserve, just any place that I 0:27:30.912 --> 0:27:32.003 could find it. And so 0:27:32.012 --> 0:27:34.142 then when did you launch your business? 0:27:34.152 --> 0:27:37.243 Uh officially in 2014, the business 0:27:37.253 --> 0:27:38.243 is meant to 0:27:38.374 --> 0:27:44.754 consult you do landscape design work and also education, correct? 0:27:44.843 --> 0:27:47.943 How has that gone for you so far? Do you 0:27:48.093 --> 0:27:51.353 are people interested in learning about native gardens? It's 0:27:51.364 --> 0:27:54.583 been, yes. Uh It's been a lot of fun. People 0:27:54.593 --> 0:27:57.353 are really on this bandwagon right now. It seems like 0:27:57.364 --> 0:27:59.874 people are really just continually getting more and more excited 0:27:59.884 --> 0:28:02.764 about native plants. Most of the people who seek me out, 0:28:02.773 --> 0:28:05.394 I think somewhat because of my, what's in my business name, 0:28:05.404 --> 0:28:07.583 Saint Louis, native plants when people are also doing things 0:28:07.593 --> 0:28:07.673 like 0:28:07.765 --> 0:28:10.464 Google searching, you know, if they're looking specifically for native 0:28:10.474 --> 0:28:12.984 plants in Saint Louis that they can stumble across me. 0:28:12.994 --> 0:28:14.704 So a lot of the people that come to me 0:28:14.714 --> 0:28:18.744 are already very interested in having native plants as their 0:28:18.755 --> 0:28:21.204 total landscaper as part of their landscape. But I think 0:28:21.214 --> 0:28:26.165 even more um, gardeners are who weren't maybe as into 0:28:26.175 --> 0:28:28.864 that at first are starting to get a little more 0:28:28.875 --> 0:28:31.915 into it just because, you know, we have these flooding events, 0:28:31.925 --> 0:28:35.304 we have these extreme drought events. Um We're hearing in 0:28:35.314 --> 0:28:37.055 the news things about, um, 0:28:37.319 --> 0:28:40.540 you know, insects or songbirds disappearing and, you know, just 0:28:40.550 --> 0:28:42.699 all of these different things that are coming up and 0:28:43.010 --> 0:28:47.060 native plants really offer a way to uh feel like 0:28:47.069 --> 0:28:49.239 we can make a difference just with our yard. 0:28:49.250 --> 0:28:52.819 And so when you're meeting a client for the first time, 0:28:53.030 --> 0:28:55.430 can you walk us a little bit through that process? 0:28:55.439 --> 0:28:59.099 Sure. So I really tailor my appointments with clients to 0:28:59.109 --> 0:29:01.260 whatever they're hoping to gain from it. So, 0:29:01.630 --> 0:29:04.550 uh if somebody contacts me and say that they're kind 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.349 of a do it yourself kind of client, then I 0:29:07.359 --> 0:29:09.170 would go out there. I would meet with them for 0:29:09.180 --> 0:29:11.170 an hour or more if they asked me to do so, 0:29:11.510 --> 0:29:14.079 and we would walk their site, we would look at 0:29:14.089 --> 0:29:16.709 everything we talk about their ideals, we look at what 0:29:16.719 --> 0:29:19.699 their site conditions are. So, does the area hold much 0:29:19.709 --> 0:29:22.510 moisture or is it kind of high and dry? Is 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:24.810 it fully exposed in the sun or is it something 0:29:24.819 --> 0:29:26.839 that gets more shade? We would look at all of 0:29:26.849 --> 0:29:28.010 those things together 0:29:28.410 --> 0:29:31.729 and then we would talk about, like I said, their ideals, 0:29:31.739 --> 0:29:34.369 uh you know, are they trying to attract more pollinators? 0:29:34.380 --> 0:29:36.890 Are they trying to attract more birds? Are they trying 0:29:36.900 --> 0:29:41.310 to deal with some sort of storm water management? Uh 0:29:41.319 --> 0:29:43.300 you know, just different things like that. And so we, 0:29:43.310 --> 0:29:45.270 we talk about the problems that they might be having 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:48.109 and then uh we will talk about how to best 0:29:48.119 --> 0:29:49.500 get rid of the existing vegetation. 0:29:49.579 --> 0:29:51.770 And if there is any to get rid of, uh 0:29:51.790 --> 0:29:54.949 that's a very important first step and then we would 0:29:54.959 --> 0:29:57.760 talk about specific plant species that might be ideal for 0:29:57.770 --> 0:30:00.949 those site conditions and to help work with their ideals. 0:30:01.079 --> 0:30:03.849 Uh If they really wanna lay everything out themselves, we 0:30:03.859 --> 0:30:06.229 also might talk about how to lay them out in 0:30:06.239 --> 0:30:09.729 a way that is aesthetically pleasing for them, for people 0:30:09.739 --> 0:30:10.599 walking by. 0:30:10.930 --> 0:30:13.430 Um We definitely wanna make sure that it's functional, you know, 0:30:13.439 --> 0:30:15.329 so that it's not, you know, people are walking past 0:30:15.339 --> 0:30:16.989 the bed and they're getting hit in the face with, 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:19.390 you know, a sunflower or something like that or make 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:21.709 sure that everything is in line with that. So that's 0:30:21.719 --> 0:30:25.189 pretty much what we talk through. Um And then, you know, 0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:27.390 if there's any other coaching that they need, you know, 0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:28.750 we kind of address that at that time. 0:30:28.969 --> 0:30:34.819 Is there a particular look or aesthetic that Saint Louis 0:30:34.829 --> 0:30:39.910 gardeners tend to want over others or are you seeing 0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:40.550 a range of 0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:43.229 interests? I would say that there is a range, but 0:30:43.239 --> 0:30:48.359 generally speaking, most people don't want to be spending a 0:30:48.369 --> 0:30:49.699 ton of time 0:30:50.020 --> 0:30:54.589 maintaining their landscape. And so that actually guides how the 0:30:54.599 --> 0:30:58.959 garden looks a little bit because um certain types of gardens, 0:30:58.969 --> 0:31:02.920 for instance, gardens that include uh native plants that are prolific, 0:31:02.930 --> 0:31:06.280 self cedars, they are going to need more maintenance and 0:31:06.290 --> 0:31:08.040 they might be a little bit harder or trickier to 0:31:08.050 --> 0:31:11.900 maintain than, you know, a garden that features plants that 0:31:11.910 --> 0:31:14.650 are more clump forming or mound forming and don't spread 0:31:14.660 --> 0:31:17.800 quite as aggressively by seed. And so, uh there's just 0:31:17.810 --> 0:31:19.439 different ways I think to work 0:31:19.530 --> 0:31:21.959 with that. But I think generally speaking, people want something 0:31:21.969 --> 0:31:25.050 that looks like it's an intentional garden uh so that 0:31:25.060 --> 0:31:27.989 it doesn't upset their neighbors. And also so that it's 0:31:28.000 --> 0:31:30.390 pleasant for them to look at. It depends on the size, 0:31:30.400 --> 0:31:32.140 it depends on the scope, right? You know, so sometimes 0:31:32.150 --> 0:31:34.030 people are like, yeah, I want, I want a wild garden, 0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:36.510 I want a prairie. So in that case, you know, 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:38.310 the approach is a little bit different, I 0:31:38.319 --> 0:31:40.630 think and correct me if I'm wrong. But I think 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:46.239 there is a misconception around native gardens that they are 0:31:46.250 --> 0:31:49.109 all wild in appearance, right? 0:31:49.469 --> 0:31:52.390 But I think you can have a lot of different 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:58.479 um elements such as a water garden, a rock garden, 0:31:58.489 --> 0:32:02.510 a perennial garden, et cetera. Um I suppose it's just 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:03.250 a matter of 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:09.280 looking at various uh native gardens and seeing what appeals 0:32:09.290 --> 0:32:12.569 to you. Absolute. How about for someone who wants an 0:32:12.579 --> 0:32:17.060 orderly symmetrical looking garden, right? Like I think a lot 0:32:17.069 --> 0:32:21.359 of people are interested in that French garden look, is 0:32:21.369 --> 0:32:25.219 that possible to achieve with native plants? 0:32:25.229 --> 0:32:28.500 Definitely. So I I think that and that's, you know, 0:32:28.609 --> 0:32:31.290 when we talk about using things that are mound forming 0:32:31.300 --> 0:32:33.869 or clump flooring plants instead of things that are 0:32:34.170 --> 0:32:36.310 going to be prolific, self cedars. I think that's one 0:32:36.319 --> 0:32:39.069 way to do that we can incorporate some other design 0:32:39.079 --> 0:32:43.209 guidelines or principles to, to make that happen. Incorporating borders 0:32:43.219 --> 0:32:45.180 is a really big thing that you hear across anybody 0:32:45.189 --> 0:32:48.140 that's talking about native garden design. You always want borders. 0:32:48.329 --> 0:32:51.010 You know, you can even alternate between some low growing 0:32:51.060 --> 0:32:54.420 ground cover borders that will be kind of give you 0:32:54.430 --> 0:32:56.510 a little bit of variety, but still give you that 0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:59.119 sort of finished look and something that's very intentional. A 0:32:59.239 --> 0:33:01.979 lot of people talk about using turf grass as borders 0:33:01.989 --> 0:33:04.020 too to kind of keep things in that realm. 0:33:04.339 --> 0:33:07.760 Um And we also uh just specific plant species, I 0:33:07.770 --> 0:33:11.760 think lend themselves to being a little more just organized looking. 0:33:11.770 --> 0:33:15.119 Uh We do have a sprinkling of plants from our 0:33:15.130 --> 0:33:18.599 palate that are evergreen or semi evergreen. So I think 0:33:18.609 --> 0:33:21.239 including things like that also helps to bring a little 0:33:21.250 --> 0:33:23.699 bit more of that look, which always tends to appeal 0:33:23.709 --> 0:33:25.430 to people. Everybody wants to see green in the winter 0:33:25.439 --> 0:33:26.219 time too. So, 0:33:26.930 --> 0:33:31.359 um and I think that people also think that native 0:33:31.369 --> 0:33:32.849 gardens are 0:33:33.510 --> 0:33:38.430 low maintenance across the board. And I know that ground 0:33:38.439 --> 0:33:43.689 covers in particular can be a low maintenance plant to 0:33:43.699 --> 0:33:48.130 care for. Is that true about the low maintenance aspect of, 0:33:48.140 --> 0:33:51.729 of native gardens? Or is there a range? 0:33:51.819 --> 0:33:55.250 It depends. So there is definitely a range. Um, 0:33:56.170 --> 0:33:59.839 ground covers really help to make uh native gardens. I 0:33:59.849 --> 0:34:02.270 think of a bit more low maintenance because, you know, 0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:06.369 just one simple example of that is if you have, um, 0:34:06.380 --> 0:34:08.580 you know, where you would normally be putting down mulch 0:34:08.590 --> 0:34:11.850 between plants, uh and it would give it kind of 0:34:11.860 --> 0:34:14.639 that finished look and it'll help to suppress weeds. It 0:34:14.649 --> 0:34:16.459 will help to protect the soil and keep some of 0:34:16.469 --> 0:34:18.949 that moisture and keep the ground from drying and cracking 0:34:19.370 --> 0:34:21.709 ground covers can do the same thing. And so they 0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:23.669 can help to suppress weeds because they take up that 0:34:23.679 --> 0:34:27.719 valuable soil, real estate area that weeds would otherwise make 0:34:27.729 --> 0:34:30.439 their way into. Um, they will keep the ground from 0:34:30.449 --> 0:34:31.510 drying and cracking. 0:34:31.870 --> 0:34:34.759 Um And, and they also will just give, again, kind 0:34:34.770 --> 0:34:37.270 of an organized look, uh if you apply them. And 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.100 so I think that that is one way to make 0:34:39.110 --> 0:34:43.290 things lower maintenance. But certainly if you have an abundance of, 0:34:43.300 --> 0:34:46.169 you know, diversity of plants and, you know, you just 0:34:46.179 --> 0:34:50.120 plunk hundreds of plants in one small space together and 0:34:50.129 --> 0:34:52.919 their self cedars and, you know, that's going to be 0:34:52.929 --> 0:34:55.389 a lot more maintenance for somebody. And so you really 0:34:55.399 --> 0:34:56.770 just have to kind of 0:34:57.100 --> 0:34:59.629 that with, you know, if somebody wants something lower maintenance, 0:34:59.639 --> 0:35:03.169 maybe a larger grouping of plantains or multiple larger groupings, 0:35:03.179 --> 0:35:06.649 mass plantings of one species, plant is going to help 0:35:06.659 --> 0:35:08.050 with that too. And can 0:35:08.060 --> 0:35:13.969 gardeners um phase in the native landscapes and the native 0:35:13.979 --> 0:35:17.729 uh plants and shrubs or is it something that has 0:35:17.739 --> 0:35:19.959 to happen all at once? I 0:35:19.969 --> 0:35:22.020 typically encourage people to drink 0:35:22.110 --> 0:35:24.750 big and start small. So I think that it's a 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:28.189 wonderful thing if somebody, you know, if somebody says, ok, 0:35:28.199 --> 0:35:31.659 so I've got a landscape full of box foots, you know, 0:35:31.669 --> 0:35:34.330 and hostas and things like that. But I have these 0:35:34.340 --> 0:35:37.600 gaps between my plants where I would like to put natives. 0:35:37.610 --> 0:35:39.609 And so you can just take maybe one or two 0:35:39.620 --> 0:35:42.570 species of natives and kind of fill in those gaps 0:35:42.580 --> 0:35:44.830 with just some natives that work well on that site. 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.129 Um You know, because not everybody wants a fully 0:35:47.399 --> 0:35:50.429 landscape. And so, and that's ok. Um Everybody's got their 0:35:50.439 --> 0:35:53.259 personal preference of what they want. And so I recently 0:35:53.270 --> 0:35:55.570 had a client where I, I, you know, they wanted 0:35:55.580 --> 0:35:57.600 the borders to be filled up or otherwise would have 0:35:57.610 --> 0:35:59.110 been mulched. And so I gave them a lot of 0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.290 low growing ground covers for their borders. But then they 0:36:01.300 --> 0:36:03.250 also did have a number of box woods where they 0:36:03.260 --> 0:36:06.589 wanted some gaps filled in with native plants. And so 0:36:06.780 --> 0:36:09.929 while their overall plan didn't look like they had a 0:36:09.939 --> 0:36:11.949 ton of species being added in, 0:36:12.350 --> 0:36:14.979 did have some really valuable, um, plant material that was 0:36:14.989 --> 0:36:18.290 being added in there for pollinators and an abundance of wildlife. 0:36:18.300 --> 0:36:20.439 So really can make a big difference even just with 0:36:20.449 --> 0:36:21.270 a small amount. I 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:24.570 love that. That is so cool. What do you hear 0:36:24.580 --> 0:36:28.090 from your clients? Uh, would you say after they go 0:36:28.100 --> 0:36:32.129 through this process with you, something that surprises them or 0:36:32.139 --> 0:36:35.850 that caught them off guard about, you know, you know, 0:36:35.860 --> 0:36:37.330 the nature of 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:39.310 native gardens, 0:36:39.689 --> 0:36:44.219 you know, I think, um, sometimes people are surprised at, um, 0:36:44.229 --> 0:36:47.709 how quickly things will start to show up, you know, 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:50.600 Dave TKA. I, I've heard him say frequently if you 0:36:50.610 --> 0:36:53.219 build it, they will come. And so, um, you know, 0:36:53.229 --> 0:36:55.669 if you plant it, they will come and, and if 0:36:55.679 --> 0:36:59.899 you plant just one species, you know, maybe a few milkweed, 0:37:00.229 --> 0:37:02.810 uh different things like that, you know, it's amazing how 0:37:02.820 --> 0:37:06.729 quick you start to see wildlife come back. And so, 0:37:06.739 --> 0:37:08.889 you know, I've, I've had a number of clients who 0:37:08.899 --> 0:37:12.729 have expressed that, that they're just elated at this, you know, 0:37:12.739 --> 0:37:14.979 and delighted at, at the fact that they just put 0:37:14.989 --> 0:37:16.750 in a few of these plants. And then the next 0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:19.729 year they start seeing things like monarch butterflies showing up more, 0:37:19.739 --> 0:37:23.110 you know, implants and, um, you know, they start seeing 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:25.570 more different types of bees showing up and just, you know, 0:37:25.580 --> 0:37:27.729 birds come into their garden and it really doesn't take 0:37:27.739 --> 0:37:28.810 that long for it to happen. 0:37:29.310 --> 0:37:31.770 And can you talk a little bit about why, why 0:37:31.780 --> 0:37:35.969 is it so important that we have these uh butterflies 0:37:35.979 --> 0:37:40.549 showing up showing up into these environments? Why, why is 0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:41.300 that important? 0:37:41.419 --> 0:37:43.449 You know, this is always a fun question for me 0:37:43.459 --> 0:37:48.169 because my immediate response now is because they're fun to 0:37:48.179 --> 0:37:52.129 look at. But I know that there's, you know, that's 0:37:52.139 --> 0:37:54.530 not necessarily the sell for everybody. And so, 0:37:54.659 --> 0:37:57.669 um you know, I, I think that when we are 0:37:57.679 --> 0:38:00.469 using and applying these native plants in our landscapes, these 0:38:00.479 --> 0:38:03.000 are things that have evolved along with our climate. And 0:38:03.010 --> 0:38:06.520 so they also have evolved along with our local ecosystems, 0:38:06.530 --> 0:38:10.159 which means that um when we have these, you know, 0:38:10.169 --> 0:38:12.870 butterflies that when they're in their larval form or as 0:38:12.879 --> 0:38:16.529 caterpillars will actually be feeding on these plants, um we 0:38:16.540 --> 0:38:18.509 have these bees, you know, that are going to be 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:19.909 pollinating these plants. 0:38:20.209 --> 0:38:22.790 And uh but we have all of these other invertebrates 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.639 that show up too like mantis, we, you know, beetles 0:38:25.649 --> 0:38:27.919 showing up, we have maths and all of these different things. 0:38:28.209 --> 0:38:31.189 And ultimately this all you know, is incorporated into the 0:38:31.199 --> 0:38:34.050 food web. So the more that we start seeing all 0:38:34.060 --> 0:38:36.229 of these different things, you know, these smaller beans, 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:40.459 we also start seeing birds showing more. And so songbirds are, 0:38:40.469 --> 0:38:44.560 are very reliant upon insects for food. Um They also 0:38:44.570 --> 0:38:46.879 will feed on the seed heads of these spent flowers. 0:38:46.889 --> 0:38:49.469 They'll feed on berries and different fruits from native plants, 0:38:49.790 --> 0:38:52.389 but they really need those insects for rearing their young. 0:38:52.699 --> 0:38:56.149 So it, it's just, it's so important to have plants 0:38:56.159 --> 0:38:59.169 that bugs are going to be visiting. So that and 0:38:59.179 --> 0:39:01.989 then in turn also have things like songbirds being supported 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:04.050 and that works, you know, across the whole web 0:39:05.060 --> 0:39:08.919 where can Saint Louis and go to look at native 0:39:08.929 --> 0:39:12.360 gardens and admire native gardens in the area 0:39:13.100 --> 0:39:13.639 anywhere in 0:39:13.649 --> 0:39:17.580 particular. My favorite place to refer people I would say 0:39:17.590 --> 0:39:22.100 is actually not necessarily a place but more garden tours. Um, 0:39:22.110 --> 0:39:26.888 just because people can see how these things are behaving 0:39:26.899 --> 0:39:29.300 in people's yards and how people are applying these in 0:39:29.310 --> 0:39:31.429 different ways in their yards and how they're working, how 0:39:31.439 --> 0:39:33.629 they're not working. They could talk with the homeowners or 0:39:33.639 --> 0:39:34.260 yard owners to 0:39:34.344 --> 0:39:37.564 see, um, kind of what's been their biggest challenge, all 0:39:37.574 --> 0:39:40.384 those different things. Um, so we have some really excellent 0:39:40.395 --> 0:39:43.215 tours where that can happen. Uh, during the summertime, usually 0:39:43.364 --> 0:39:46.574 we have um, the native plant garden tour that happens 0:39:46.584 --> 0:39:50.444 in the summertime, we have uh the sustainable backyard tour, 0:39:50.455 --> 0:39:53.884 which that network usually features a lot of native plant gardens. 0:39:53.895 --> 0:39:55.485 And so that's also an excellent way 0:39:55.780 --> 0:39:58.219 as far as places to visit without getting too far 0:39:58.229 --> 0:40:01.840 into the weeds, so to speak. Um, the Shaw Nature Reserve, uh, 0:40:01.850 --> 0:40:06.149 the Whitmire Wildflower Garden specifically is a beautiful example. I mean, 0:40:06.159 --> 0:40:10.560 a shining example of native design and landscaping. It's just, 0:40:10.570 --> 0:40:13.169 it's gorgeous and there's, you know, there's so many other 0:40:13.179 --> 0:40:15.199 places that are popping up right now, it's almost hard 0:40:15.209 --> 0:40:17.030 to keep track of it and I get excited when 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:18.040 I see them. Um, 0:40:18.639 --> 0:40:21.449 like there's a, a place that I drive past frequently that, 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:23.899 uh it's quarrelsome coffee, a new little coffee shop that 0:40:23.909 --> 0:40:25.399 has opened up, I guess, I think in the last 0:40:25.409 --> 0:40:28.340 year or so. And they have this like little strip 0:40:28.350 --> 0:40:30.229 of land that I don't know if it belongs to 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.379 them or if it belongs to the neighbor, the adjacent neighborhood, 0:40:33.830 --> 0:40:35.810 uh where there's a bunch of native plants that got 0:40:35.820 --> 0:40:39.030 planted as quarrelsome coffee opened. So I think maybe it's 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:42.509 associated with them, but it's just this small pocket of 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:46.669 land that has these beautiful plants blooming, you know, kind 0:40:46.679 --> 0:40:48.609 of across the growing season, different things, you know, we're 0:40:48.620 --> 0:40:50.879 picking up and it just got planted in the last year. 0:40:50.889 --> 0:40:53.370 And so, um, I think that there's more places that 0:40:53.379 --> 0:40:55.639 are implementing them in parking lots as kind of bios 0:40:55.649 --> 0:40:57.449 wh like rain catchment sort of system. 0:40:57.544 --> 0:41:00.425 Yes. You know, so there's like Missouri Botanical Garden. You 0:41:00.435 --> 0:41:02.314 don't even have to go actually into the garden. You 0:41:02.324 --> 0:41:05.725 can visit their, you know, parking lots basically. So, um 0:41:05.735 --> 0:41:07.524 there's a lot of different places I think, to see them. 0:41:07.655 --> 0:41:10.564 Where would you say are some of the best places 0:41:10.574 --> 0:41:12.725 to buy native plants? 0:41:12.935 --> 0:41:15.965 I would say, don't limit it to the, to these suggestions. 0:41:15.975 --> 0:41:17.574 I think that again, this is kind of like what 0:41:17.584 --> 0:41:19.594 I was just talking about where there's more places, more 0:41:19.604 --> 0:41:21.185 suppliers popping up over time 0:41:21.449 --> 0:41:24.129 and more places are starting to incorporate native plants into 0:41:24.139 --> 0:41:27.109 their retail. I would say green Scape Gardens is definitely 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:30.919 one of my favorites. Um They're, they have an abundance 0:41:30.929 --> 0:41:33.709 in the retail center for Natives and Suele. He has 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:36.580 done a lovely job of stocking that up and keeping 0:41:36.590 --> 0:41:40.159 that supplied. I also really like Papillon Perennials which uh 0:41:40.169 --> 0:41:43.820 the owner Cathy Pauley. Um she uh does not have 0:41:43.830 --> 0:41:44.879 a brick and mortar location, 0:41:45.125 --> 0:41:47.485 but she is somebody who you can place orders with 0:41:47.495 --> 0:41:49.294 and you can actually do pick up with her and 0:41:49.304 --> 0:41:51.375 she shows up to a number of plant sale events too. 0:41:51.385 --> 0:41:55.685 So that's Papillon perennials um Missouri Wildflower Nursery. Uh They 0:41:55.695 --> 0:41:59.215 have a an amazing selection. They will actually ship orders 0:41:59.225 --> 0:42:02.154 um directly to you that you place online. You can 0:42:02.165 --> 0:42:05.004 also find them at different plant sale events too, um, 0:42:05.014 --> 0:42:07.375 locally or you can have a nice little road trip 0:42:07.385 --> 0:42:08.554 out to their location. 0:42:08.959 --> 0:42:12.199 Um, Forest Keeling, uh, nursery is also a really great 0:42:12.209 --> 0:42:16.540 place for shrubs and trees and they're located in Elsbury, Missouri. And, uh, 0:42:16.550 --> 0:42:18.229 another place locally that I'd want to give a shout 0:42:18.239 --> 0:42:22.300 out to, uh, would be, um, Forest Relief, which they 0:42:22.310 --> 0:42:24.729 operate kind of seasonally, but they're located out at Crieff 0:42:24.739 --> 0:42:26.279 Corp Park and they are more of a place for 0:42:26.290 --> 0:42:29.129 like trees, primarily, maybe shrubs a bit too good uh 0:42:29.139 --> 0:42:30.370 native trees. 0:42:30.729 --> 0:42:34.830 And uh and they're also, they contribute uh broadly to 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.979 um community kind of efforts to uh actually get trees 0:42:37.989 --> 0:42:40.550 planted in areas that maybe are underserved. Um 0:42:41.179 --> 0:42:43.799 And so, uh they don't want anybody to be limited 0:42:43.810 --> 0:42:45.919 on their ability to have trees based off of their income. 0:42:45.929 --> 0:42:48.549 And so they're really a great organization to support 0:42:48.919 --> 0:42:50.948 and I would say pure air native would be another one, 0:42:50.959 --> 0:42:53.729 especially if you're looking for seeds. Um You know, and 0:42:53.739 --> 0:42:56.279 you don't necessarily start from live plants that would be 0:42:56.290 --> 0:42:57.879 a really viable option too. 0:42:57.889 --> 0:43:01.449 These are incredible recommendations, some of which I never heard of. 0:43:01.459 --> 0:43:05.459 So thank you for that. Let's talk about magnolia trees. 0:43:05.469 --> 0:43:09.459 I know that they are a favorite among Saint Louis Sins. 0:43:09.679 --> 0:43:12.020 I actually bought three magnolias 0:43:12.112 --> 0:43:16.431 last year. Was that a good choice to make if 0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:20.142 I'm trying to be environmentally minded? So 0:43:20.152 --> 0:43:22.382 I think if you're trying to be environmentally conscientious in 0:43:22.392 --> 0:43:25.571 that way that I would say that most magnolias that 0:43:25.582 --> 0:43:29.251 are planted around here are not native, but I wouldn't, 0:43:29.261 --> 0:43:31.271 you know, consider or I don't know any of them 0:43:31.281 --> 0:43:34.652 to be considered invasive as far as non natives go. 0:43:34.661 --> 0:43:35.200 We do 0:43:35.503 --> 0:43:39.003 have a uh native magnolia tree to the state of Missouri. 0:43:39.513 --> 0:43:41.493 Not many people plant them because the flowers are kind 0:43:41.503 --> 0:43:43.694 of funky looking. They don't look anything like a saucer 0:43:43.704 --> 0:43:47.644 magnolia or star or sweet by magnolia flowers. Uh And 0:43:47.654 --> 0:43:49.674 what you do tend to see with, um, the non 0:43:49.684 --> 0:43:53.404 native magnolias is you will actually frequently see um beetles 0:43:53.414 --> 0:43:56.093 on the flowers or visiting the flowers as pollinators of 0:43:56.104 --> 0:43:58.404 those flowers. And so while 0:43:58.496 --> 0:44:01.916 they're not necessarily, uh they may not provide quite as 0:44:01.926 --> 0:44:04.055 much in the realm of, you know, something that maybe 0:44:04.065 --> 0:44:06.426 a native tree would supply depending on what kind of 0:44:06.635 --> 0:44:08.766 um native tree you had, especially if it was something 0:44:08.775 --> 0:44:11.835 like an oak. But uh they are not, they're not 0:44:11.844 --> 0:44:15.115 an invasive species, like I said, as I'm aware and 0:44:15.125 --> 0:44:18.365 they're not harming uh anything by being there. So 0:44:18.565 --> 0:44:24.676 you can have non native plants, trees, shrubs 0:44:25.340 --> 0:44:29.109 in your garden and they may not necessarily, that doesn't 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:34.870 necessarily mean that they're invasive species. Is that correct? Definitely. Yes. Ok. 0:44:35.219 --> 0:44:37.669 And so how do you determine, I guess that's just 0:44:37.679 --> 0:44:38.189 through 0:44:38.620 --> 0:44:42.100 research and knowing and talking to experts, et cetera. Do 0:44:42.110 --> 0:44:42.679 you know? 0:44:42.689 --> 0:44:46.270 It's, so that's an interesting question. Um there may be 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.310 some exact criteria that has to line up in such 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:51.739 a way for something to be called invasive. Um I 0:44:51.750 --> 0:44:55.000 will say that sometimes the term invasive gets thrown at natives, 0:44:55.010 --> 0:44:56.638 which is not something that conservationists 0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:58.939 would use. You know, typically the, the term that would 0:44:58.949 --> 0:45:02.860 be applied to a native plant that maybe is acting 0:45:02.989 --> 0:45:06.060 somewhat invasive in its behavior would be aggressive is usually 0:45:06.070 --> 0:45:08.479 how people would refer to that. Um but not invasive 0:45:08.489 --> 0:45:10.839 because invasive is something that's only applied to something that 0:45:10.850 --> 0:45:14.699 is a non native species and is invading and suppressing 0:45:15.030 --> 0:45:18.090 uh growth of surrounding plants. And so, like I said, 0:45:18.100 --> 0:45:21.030 I'm not sure if there's actually a particular line kind 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:23.929 of or number that you would be looking for to, 0:45:23.939 --> 0:45:26.770 to call something or classify something as an invasive species. 0:45:26.780 --> 0:45:29.739 But um from what I understand, an invasive species is 0:45:29.750 --> 0:45:32.250 gonna be a non native species can be something that 0:45:32.260 --> 0:45:38.209 spreads somewhat uncontrollably um and invades uh surrounding habitat and 0:45:38.219 --> 0:45:41.908 suppresses native plants from actually being able to grow. And 0:45:41.919 --> 0:45:44.439 so then native plants 0:45:44.929 --> 0:45:49.239 can act aggressively. Yes, they can. Ok. And that would 0:45:49.250 --> 0:45:53.669 involve some of the actions that you just described. 0:45:53.679 --> 0:45:55.879 Right. Yeah. So they could, they could, they could find 0:45:55.889 --> 0:45:59.409 their way into surrounding gardens or landscapes, they could possibly 0:45:59.419 --> 0:46:01.409 make it harder for other plants to grow even other 0:46:01.419 --> 0:46:04.149 native plants. And so, you know, even in like in 0:46:04.159 --> 0:46:06.939 conservation of forests, you'll see that there will be thinning 0:46:06.949 --> 0:46:09.110 even of some native trees because even, 0:46:09.489 --> 0:46:10.909 you know, where you have an area where there's a 0:46:10.919 --> 0:46:14.310 bunch of native trees growing. If you have too much 0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:18.739 of that uh happening, they're going to suppress other growth 0:46:18.750 --> 0:46:21.629 from happening. And so just in the by the nature 0:46:21.639 --> 0:46:24.299 of how things grow, um they're gonna be shading out 0:46:24.310 --> 0:46:26.729 the ground. And so the more that the ground is shaded, 0:46:26.739 --> 0:46:28.840 it's gonna make, make it harder or more difficult for 0:46:28.850 --> 0:46:31.350 other plant species to be able to reach towards the sunlight. 0:46:31.610 --> 0:46:34.750 And so they can definitely do that. And that's where, 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.850 you know, it, it makes sense to really carefully consider 0:46:37.860 --> 0:46:40.689 plant species. You know, if somebody tells me I don't 0:46:40.699 --> 0:46:43.209 want something high maintenance and I don't want something that's 0:46:43.219 --> 0:46:46.080 gonna jump all over my yard that right there rules 0:46:46.090 --> 0:46:49.800 out a lot, a number of plant species. Um, you know, 0:46:49.810 --> 0:46:50.589 just because 0:46:51.129 --> 0:46:53.199 I don't want to give somebody a maintenance nightmare. 0:46:53.209 --> 0:46:56.389 Right. Right. It sounds like there's just so much to 0:46:56.399 --> 0:47:01.189 know and learn and understand about gardens and, and the 0:47:01.199 --> 0:47:02.790 way we interact with them. 0:47:03.709 --> 0:47:06.629 And now I'd like to start with our round of 0:47:06.639 --> 0:47:10.250 lightning questions. This is always a fun one. What is 0:47:10.260 --> 0:47:12.840 your favorite native flower? 0:47:13.060 --> 0:47:15.540 It's a very tough one. Depends on what's in blue. Uh, 0:47:15.550 --> 0:47:19.259 but I'm gonna go with Rattlesnake Master whose botanical name 0:47:19.270 --> 0:47:21.300 is Orum. Yucca folium. 0:47:21.620 --> 0:47:26.409 What's a non native flower or plant that everyone thinks 0:47:26.459 --> 0:47:28.509 is native to our region. 0:47:28.939 --> 0:47:30.069 Butterfly bush 0:47:30.370 --> 0:47:34.100 prettiest native tree to plant in a south facing front 0:47:34.110 --> 0:47:34.889 yard for 0:47:34.899 --> 0:47:36.540 a small yard, I'd say a red bud or a 0:47:36.550 --> 0:47:40.830 circus Canadensis or for a large yard. I would say 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:42.949 an oak tree, maybe a *** ain oak 0:47:43.020 --> 0:47:48.178 most harmful non native plant tree flower in our area. 0:47:48.310 --> 0:47:48.810 But I 0:47:49.070 --> 0:47:51.709 there's some rivals there, but I would say the Japanese 0:47:51.729 --> 0:47:53.820 uh bush honeysuckle would probably be a 0:47:53.830 --> 0:47:58.229 top native gardens. Make me feel joy 0:47:58.850 --> 0:48:02.719 when I see a landscape or garden converted from non 0:48:02.729 --> 0:48:05.948 native to native. The first thing that comes to mind 0:48:05.959 --> 0:48:06.629 is 0:48:07.129 --> 0:48:11.229 the patchwork is coming together to be a quilt for wildlife. 0:48:11.510 --> 0:48:15.209 A good book to read or learn about native landscapes. 0:48:15.409 --> 0:48:17.949 Tough one. But I'm gonna say as a starting point, 0:48:17.959 --> 0:48:19.540 anything by Doug telling me 0:48:19.770 --> 0:48:21.669 your favorite garden insect 0:48:21.750 --> 0:48:24.469 go with the uh great black wasp. 0:48:24.790 --> 0:48:27.850 If you had room to plant more native flowers, which 0:48:27.860 --> 0:48:28.560 one would you 0:48:28.570 --> 0:48:32.040 choose? If I had more room, I would plant trees, 0:48:32.169 --> 0:48:35.290 lots and lots of oak trees or something like that. 0:48:35.300 --> 0:48:36.560 Uh Trees, 0:48:36.739 --> 0:48:39.719 Saint Louis is a great place to learn to garden 0:48:39.729 --> 0:48:40.509 because 0:48:40.989 --> 0:48:45.570 Saint Louis Audubon Society and Saint Louis wild ones especially 0:48:45.580 --> 0:48:46.760 are very supportive. 0:48:46.780 --> 0:48:49.969 You, Susie. This was wonderful. I appreciate all of the 0:48:49.979 --> 0:48:52.330 information and insight. Thanks for having me. 0:48:54.270 --> 0:48:59.049 And now it's time for these views. I love to learn. 0:48:59.060 --> 0:49:02.709 I think anyone who knows me knows how much I 0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:07.009 am curious about the world around me. And I'm thinking 0:49:07.020 --> 0:49:11.810 about taking some classes this year and I wanted to 0:49:11.820 --> 0:49:15.040 highlight three that have caught my interest. 0:49:15.350 --> 0:49:21.129 The first is Orchid Show photography at Missouri Botanical Garden 0:49:21.340 --> 0:49:26.050 on February the 15th from 530 to 8 p.m. 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:30.699 All levels of experience are welcome and you would get 0:49:30.709 --> 0:49:35.379 rare access to the orchid show to take photos with 0:49:35.389 --> 0:49:40.419 professional guidance. This seems like something really great for both 0:49:40.429 --> 0:49:43.169 beginners and those of us who want to take our 0:49:43.179 --> 0:49:49.620 photo skills. One step forward. The next class on my 0:49:49.629 --> 0:49:53.419 list is Darin and mending at perennial. 0:49:53.810 --> 0:49:57.860 And if you're not familiar with perennial, this is a 0:49:57.870 --> 0:50:05.069 local nonprofit that offers educational programming and creative reuse and 0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:09.989 sells handmade diy kits and tools for reuse projects. 0:50:10.429 --> 0:50:13.100 I took a class there last year and I had 0:50:13.110 --> 0:50:18.330 a great experience and this one is all about learning 0:50:18.340 --> 0:50:23.610 how to repair holes in woven and knit garments using 0:50:23.620 --> 0:50:27.080 traditional mending and darning techniques 0:50:27.510 --> 0:50:34.469 scheduled for January 20th from 10 a.m. to 1230. And 0:50:34.479 --> 0:50:37.449 you know, I think we're just gonna all sit around 0:50:37.459 --> 0:50:43.409 and will be provided with holy sample swatches that we 0:50:43.419 --> 0:50:47.610 can practice on and um improve our skills so that 0:50:47.659 --> 0:50:51.110 when our clothes tire out a bit, we don't throw 0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:54.060 them out necessarily, but we mend them and we try 0:50:54.070 --> 0:50:56.790 to keep them in our closet rotation. 0:50:57.300 --> 0:51:02.639 And lastly, there's a tour at the Pulitzer Arts Foundation 0:51:02.649 --> 0:51:08.040 on January 20th from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. that 0:51:08.050 --> 0:51:15.760 will take visitors inside the Tadao Ando building to learn 0:51:15.770 --> 0:51:18.840 more about the incredible architecture 0:51:19.219 --> 0:51:23.520 of that space. We'll learn from Mark Whelan of B 0:51:23.530 --> 0:51:28.159 SI constructors and he will talk about his time working 0:51:28.169 --> 0:51:31.879 on that building from the ground up alongside the architect 0:51:31.889 --> 0:51:34.959 and his team. I'm sure it's going to be a 0:51:34.969 --> 0:51:39.089 really interesting tour. Something to think about as you get 0:51:39.100 --> 0:51:40.520 your year underway. 0:51:40.969 --> 0:51:43.610 Thank you for listening to the House of Lou. Be 0:51:43.620 --> 0:51:47.429 sure to follow us and share the episode with your friends. 0:51:47.649 --> 0:51:51.479 Be in touch with us through my newsletter, design and 0:51:51.489 --> 0:51:59.129 home at STL mag.com/newsletters and follow us on Instagram. We'll 0:51:59.139 --> 0:52:02.469 see you next time and just remember there's so much 0:52:02.479 --> 0:52:05.229 to see in Saint Louis if you know where to look.