Speaker 1: Welcome to the House of Blue podcast. I'm your host
Speaker 1: Veronica Theodoro. Today we're talking about native gardens and landscapes.
Speaker 1: Is it just me or do you also feel like
Speaker 1: the topic of native plants is growing in popularity?
Speaker 1: Well, today we have two local experts here to talk
Speaker 1: to us about natives and why this is such an
Speaker 1: important topic. First up is Shannon Callahan. Shannon is an
Speaker 1: outreach specialist at Bring Conservation Home, a local nonprofit that
Speaker 1: provides on site advice to private landowners about how they
Speaker 1: can restore native plant and animal habitats to their property.
Speaker 1: She's worked for the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, the
Speaker 1: Missouri Department of Conservation and at the Donald Danforth Plant
Speaker 1: Science Center,
Speaker 1: landscape designer, Susie Vander Reet is the owner of Saint
Speaker 1: Louis native plants where she offers consultations, landscape design and
Speaker 1: education about native species, talks, presentations and tours. They're here
Speaker 1: to talk about why we should all care more about
Speaker 1: native flowers, shrubs and trees. But first, some news from
Speaker 1: the four corners of the house.
Speaker 1: This episode of House of Loo is sponsored by ST
Speaker 1: Louis symphony orchestra. I've been moving some furniture around my
Speaker 1: house lately. I own an antique secretary that I want
Speaker 1: to convert into a bar
Speaker 1: for the last, I don't know how many years it's
Speaker 1: been on my second floor gathering dust and I just
Speaker 1: want to find a better use for it. And I
Speaker 1: recently called Sue Wheeler, um, who came over to talk
Speaker 1: with me about refinishing the piece. And so we've decided
Speaker 1: that she's going to strip it, sand it and we're
Speaker 1: gonna come up with a custom stain for it. And
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this.
Speaker 1: Um I'm also adding antique mirror behind the shelves. And um,
Speaker 1: a reader, actually, a reader from my newsletter
Speaker 1: wrote to me suggesting that I call Dave at County
Speaker 1: Glass on Manchester. Thank you so much, Susan for that recommendation.
Speaker 1: I love it when my readers can give me insight
Speaker 1: on who to call for my particular projects at home.
Speaker 1: So if you subscribe to my email newsletter, you probably
Speaker 1: know that I have a desire to rebuild the iron
Speaker 1: awning above my front door.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of old Saint Louis houses. A few
Speaker 1: of the original architectural elements have been stripped from the
Speaker 1: house over the years. And I really feel like that
Speaker 1: this house needs its awning back. So my mission is
Speaker 1: to have that in place by May of this
Speaker 1: year. But my husband reminded me that there's no point
Speaker 1: in moving forward on that project until we repair and
Speaker 1: waterproof the tile work on the front porch. So that
Speaker 1: it doesn't keep cracking and buckling. So the awning is
Speaker 1: on hiatus for a little bit and that's just the
Speaker 1: way things go with old houses. You think you've got
Speaker 1: a plan
Speaker 1: and then you realize that you're about one or two
Speaker 1: steps ahead of yourself. I'll be posting pictures of the
Speaker 1: porch secretary and eventually the awning in my newsletter and
Speaker 1: on social media.
Speaker 1: And now on to today's interviews. My first guest today
Speaker 1: is Shannon Callahan, an outreach specialist at Bring Conservation Home.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Shannon for joining us today. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me on. This is so exciting for
Speaker 1: those listeners who may not be familiar with your organization.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Brain Conservation Home is a program through the Saint
Speaker 1: Louis Audubon Society.
Speaker 1: And uh BC H Brain Conservation Home was founded about
Speaker 1: 11 years ago back in 2012 with the goal of
Speaker 1: offering guidance and expertise to homeowners and how to convert
Speaker 1: their traditional landscaping to native landscaping using native plants.
Speaker 1: Um So over the last decade, it's evolved to a
Speaker 1: little bit more than that, but that's really our, our
Speaker 1: fundamental mission uh at its core. Now, is that a
Speaker 1: national organization or is that a Saint Louis organization? I'm
Speaker 1: proud to say this is Saint Louis local. Um Audubon
Speaker 1: obviously is a national organization with local city chapters and
Speaker 1: there are other programs similar to BC H elsewhere. But
Speaker 1: um our Saint Louis chapter here for conservation home is
Speaker 1: unique in its name, its founding
Speaker 1: and our, our reach within the region. And I'm proud
Speaker 1: to say that we've actually helped other ones start elsewhere.
Speaker 1: And I know that your focus is on native and
Speaker 1: invasive plant management. What does that mean? First of all,
Speaker 1: educating people on invasive plants, so many people aren't aware
Speaker 1: of the plants in their yard.
Speaker 1: You're not taught plant id uh as part of your
Speaker 1: general education like in, in high school. So a large
Speaker 1: part of what I do is show up to people's
Speaker 1: property and just walk them through what they already have.
Speaker 1: And often they're surprised to find that they actually have
Speaker 1: a great number of invasive species on their property. What
Speaker 1: I mean by invasive species is a non native plant.
Speaker 1: So not from North America that is aggressive to the
Speaker 1: point where it actually
Speaker 1: out competes and is detrimental to the surrounding environment. So
Speaker 1: it's going to out compete our native plants and keep
Speaker 1: them at bay. Um And why that's really a problem
Speaker 1: is our native insects can't them, they can't eat them.
Speaker 1: And so our insects are dwindling and populations are declining.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you go up the food chain that,
Speaker 1: that affects the things that eat the insects. So um
Speaker 1: that's step number one is tackling invasive species and then
Speaker 1: replacing those invasive species with helpful native plants. So that's
Speaker 1: really what we focus on can anybody pick up the
Speaker 1: phone or send you an email and ask to be
Speaker 1: put on your schedule? Yeah, for sure. Um, even people
Speaker 1: who don't own their own property, if you're a renter
Speaker 1: or you're interested in just
Speaker 1: container gardening, like, you know, pots out on a balcony,
Speaker 1: we're able to tailor our consultation to anyone like that. So,
Speaker 1: you go to our website, we unfortunately are very popular
Speaker 1: and have about a six month waitlist, which we're hoping
Speaker 1: to get down as capacity grows. But that's just where
Speaker 1: we're at currently. And yeah, we are able to come
Speaker 1: out and do a very in depth consultation on site
Speaker 1: and then send a very in depth report uh in
Speaker 1: response to that.
Speaker 1: And is that, is there a cost to that? So
Speaker 1: yes and no, there is a sliding fee scale which
Speaker 1: is new as of this year and we suggest an
Speaker 1: $80 donation. That's kind of like the true cost of
Speaker 1: our consultation,
Speaker 1: but we really accept whatever is comfortable for you. So
Speaker 1: if less is what you can do or nothing is
Speaker 1: what you know, you can do. At that moment, we
Speaker 1: have supplemental funding through Department of Conservation through various native
Speaker 1: plant growers in the area that um are able to
Speaker 1: cover the difference. And what we're finding with
Speaker 1: this new sliding fee scale we've introduced is actually most
Speaker 1: people are over paying on the $80. We're receiving a
Speaker 1: lot of $100 plus donations, which is covering where, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe people are donating. And for those listeners who may
Speaker 1: not be familiar with
Speaker 1: native landscapes and native gardens, why is it an important
Speaker 1: topic or subject matter? So, like I mentioned earlier with
Speaker 1: invasive species, it all boils down to the food chain.
Speaker 1: So our native insects and therefore our native pollinators can't
Speaker 1: use non native plants. So
Speaker 1: people at some point in the last, you know, couple
Speaker 1: centuries determined that this very European looking traditional landscaping is
Speaker 1: the social norm, is like the standard. And so we
Speaker 1: have all these non native plants from Europe and Asia
Speaker 1: that aren't eaten by insects which most people may hear
Speaker 1: and think. Ok, that's a good thing, right? My plants
Speaker 1: aren't full of holes, but when it's not being eaten,
Speaker 1: it's not being used, it's not supporting wildlife.
Speaker 1: Um And it's really separating that area, the urban area
Speaker 1: from the habitat in the area. And so if you're
Speaker 1: not having native insects don't have the things that eat
Speaker 1: the insects, birds, specifically chicks, adult birds often can eat
Speaker 1: seeds and other sources of food. But chicks really do
Speaker 1: need caterpillars that, that high protein caterpillar to eat. But
Speaker 1: I have um kind of a an interesting little like
Speaker 1: study that was done that I think you might find
Speaker 1: interesting here. So,
Speaker 1: um I'm gonna be referring to Doctor Doug Talam me
Speaker 1: quite a bit during this likely and he is an
Speaker 1: Ecologist entomologist out of Delaware who has done just a
Speaker 1: ton of research on how native landscaping really does impact
Speaker 1: wildlife populations.
Speaker 1: So, he looked at a nest of chickadees in his yard.
Speaker 1: Chickadees are a very small songbird. Oh, ok. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm full disclosure. I work for Audubon. I know next
Speaker 1: to nothing about birds. I'm a plant person. Um, so
Speaker 1: chickadees are very small. They're like about a third of
Speaker 1: an ounce weight wise, so very, very small. So when
Speaker 1: they're raising a nest, both parents help in feeding the
Speaker 1: chicks and they take turns leaving the nest to go
Speaker 1: get a caterpillar every 1 to 3 minutes, they bring
Speaker 1: back a single caterpillar.
Speaker 1: They do that from about 6 a.m. to about 8 p.m.
Speaker 1: On average for 16 to 18 days, that's a total
Speaker 1: of about 350 to 570 caterpillars per day depending on
Speaker 1: how many chicks they have. So, in total to raise
Speaker 1: a single nest of chickadees, you're looking at around 6000
Speaker 1: to 9000 caterpillars and that's one nest of chickadees. So
Speaker 1: think about larger birds, right? Your blue jays, your cardinals,
Speaker 1: your woodpeckers. So if you don't have those native caterpillars,
Speaker 1: what are they eating or not?
Speaker 1: Kind of what it boils down to is supporting the
Speaker 1: food chain, the food web and supporting wildlife. But it
Speaker 1: really does go beyond that. Um You can solve a
Speaker 1: lot of storm water problems or erosion problems in your
Speaker 1: yard using native plants that absorb the runoff. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: absorb runoff, they hold soil in place. I know I
Speaker 1: live in South City. Um I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 1: listeners can relate to that. Like very small, very steep
Speaker 1: South City Hill that is so typical of those neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: Um Erosion can be a really big problem and bowing.
Speaker 1: That hill is insane to try to push a lawn
Speaker 1: mower up and down. Um So converting that to some
Speaker 1: kind of native landscaping where you don't have to mow,
Speaker 1: but it's holding soil in place and it's, it's capturing
Speaker 1: rainwater run off and, and that's what they refer to
Speaker 1: as rewilding.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. In a way, I've, I've seen that term. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ril there's so many different buzzwords around like native landscaping. Rewilding,
Speaker 1: I think kind of has this connotation of
Speaker 1: like the Pocket Prairie, the very um
Speaker 1: wild looking. Yes. And I say this with love. This
Speaker 1: is what my own front yard looks like. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: 4 ft tall wildflowers and it looks more wild, more natural.
Speaker 1: Um But there are definitely ways and I'm sure we
Speaker 1: can talk about this more where it looks
Speaker 1: more intentional. It looks more like a traditional suburban landscape
Speaker 1: but still using native species and still accomplishing those single goals.
Speaker 1: And what would one use to achieve that particular look?
Speaker 1: Is that ground cover when someone asks us for, um,
Speaker 1: a Tidier look, um, or, you know, they don't wanna,
Speaker 1: I like to joke, be that house on the block, right?
Speaker 1: Because I am that house on the block.
Speaker 1: I recommend there are certain species like different wildflowers that
Speaker 1: are gonna max out m height, they're not gonna get
Speaker 1: so, so many of our prairie plants can be five
Speaker 1: plus feet tall. Um, so I'm recommending plants that maybe
Speaker 1: stay around 3 ft. They grow kind of bushier rather
Speaker 1: than scraggly. Um, They're less likely to spread many of
Speaker 1: our native wildflowers
Speaker 1: will readily self seed into an area which is fantastic
Speaker 1: if that's what you're prepared for. But if you're going
Speaker 1: for a more traditional sub urban look, there, there is,
Speaker 1: you know, something to be said about being able to
Speaker 1: plant something and it stays there. Um
Speaker 1: Or there's plenty of native shrubs where a lot of
Speaker 1: what we're doing is offering recommendations to replace honeysuckle or
Speaker 1: burning bush or non invasive but not native boxwoods and um,
Speaker 1: you shrubs or Japanese maples and things like that. So
Speaker 1: it's incredible that you can get the look of a boxwood,
Speaker 1: for example,
Speaker 1: by using a native. Yeah. Planned. Yeah, there's a species,
Speaker 1: a shrubby Saint John's work, which is a shrub that
Speaker 1: is our go to recommendation specifically for a boxwood look alike.
Speaker 1: Um It's not evergreen like a boxwood, but it does
Speaker 1: leaf out
Speaker 1: very early and stay green very late compared to our
Speaker 1: other deciduous shrubs and has a very similar look. Um
Speaker 1: And I'd argue. Um actually much better look because they
Speaker 1: have these really huge beautiful flowers. And I love to
Speaker 1: tell the story about I was on a site visit
Speaker 1: and two houses away,
Speaker 1: a neighbor of this person had a mass planting of
Speaker 1: shrubby Saint John's Wart and it was in bloom from
Speaker 1: two houses away. I could hear the buzz. Oh my God,
Speaker 1: that's how many pollinators were on this mass of shrubs.
Speaker 1: And it was just the perfect example to be showing
Speaker 1: the steward that I was talking to at the, at
Speaker 1: that time. Like, hey, this is why we're doing it.
Speaker 1: Like you can hear all the pollinators from over there.
Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know what, what you hear on
Speaker 1: these site visits from, um, from homeowners, gardeners. What surprises them?
Speaker 1: What questions do they have? What are their worries
Speaker 1: or their concerns? Um Anything come to mind? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I will say that I hear the same things over
Speaker 1: and over and yet I never have the same visit twice.
Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting. So I hear a lot of
Speaker 1: the same worries or concerns, but everyone is coming from
Speaker 1: a different perspective. So, so many people reach out to
Speaker 1: us
Speaker 1: because they're bird watchers and they kind, they asked themselves well,
Speaker 1: how do I get more birds in my yard? I'm
Speaker 1: tired of just seeing cardinals and robins and does. Um,
Speaker 1: and through that research they find, oh, I need caterpillars
Speaker 1: and that's how they find us. Um And so they,
Speaker 1: they come to us from like a support wildlife perspective,
Speaker 1: which is great. And then there are other people who
Speaker 1: they live further out near like wild water Chesterfield and
Speaker 1: all their landscaping is being eaten by deer people, right? Um,
Speaker 1: and so they have us. Yeah. So they have us
Speaker 1: come out. And unfortunately for that one, we don't have
Speaker 1: a magic answer for how to, you know, deer are everywhere. But, um,
Speaker 1: they kind of reach to us. They reach us from
Speaker 1: that perspective. We have people who reach out because they
Speaker 1: can't get anything to grow in their very shady yard,
Speaker 1: erosion and storm water problems are another big reason people
Speaker 1: reach out something else is MS D. The sanitation
Speaker 1: department has a small grant program called Project Clear. That
Speaker 1: is an incentive program to have people convert areas of
Speaker 1: their property to native landscaping to increase storm water usage
Speaker 1: on your own property. So a lot of people find
Speaker 1: out about that and then reach out to us to
Speaker 1: try to kind of start that process. I'm sure that
Speaker 1: can be several $1000 worth of reimbursement for them to
Speaker 1: do
Speaker 1: this complete rehab of their landscaping. Oh, wow. Incredible. And
Speaker 1: from what I understand, as you said, you have a
Speaker 1: six month wait, give or take, give or take or so. And, um,
Speaker 1: this year you've had about 100 and 55 site visits
Speaker 1: is that pretty average for you or? Yeah. So that's
Speaker 1: um
Speaker 1: this year was a bit of a transition year. I'm,
Speaker 1: I am new as of March. So there's definitely a
Speaker 1: learning curve for myself taking on a lot of these
Speaker 1: site visits about last year. I think they did about
Speaker 1: 180 or so.
Speaker 1: Uh The year before that was again, about 100 and
Speaker 1: 50 pandemic year actually reached much higher because they were
Speaker 1: doing virtual visits. Oh, That's not something we're planning on
Speaker 1: doing anytime soon. It just, it really, we do need
Speaker 1: to be on site and be able to walk around and,
Speaker 1: and figure out sun conditions and everything. But um so yeah, it's,
Speaker 1: it's definitely about 100 and 50 plus site visits a year.
Speaker 1: Do you find that there's a particular neighborhood or area
Speaker 1: of Saint Louis where you get a majority of your
Speaker 1: phone calls or emails? Yeah. Yeah. So we're definitely the
Speaker 1: top three zip codes I would say are Webster Groves,
Speaker 1: Kirkwood U City. Um Those are very popular. We're very
Speaker 1: popular there.
Speaker 1: Um South City, especially like Tower Grove area. We're very
Speaker 1: present there, which is great. Um Something we're really proud
Speaker 1: of is actually this year, we've done a lot more
Speaker 1: site visits up in like North City and we call
Speaker 1: those tier one areas. Tier one is uh partnership with
Speaker 1: Department of Conservation M DC that we've kind of both
Speaker 1: identified these areas of the Saint Louis metro area that
Speaker 1: are being underserved, both by M DC and by our
Speaker 1: own program.
Speaker 1: And so we developed this partnership with M DC that
Speaker 1: they are covering the fees entirely for these tier one areas,
Speaker 1: um which is a lot of North city, south city
Speaker 1: that are like I said, traditionally underserved by these programs.
Speaker 1: So completely free, no donation even suggested or expected for
Speaker 1: these areas and you get ABC H consultation. So in
Speaker 1: past years, it's ranged from two visits, tier one areas
Speaker 1: up to like I think the most was seven.
Speaker 1: Um in past years, this year we did 17 and
Speaker 1: how are you getting the word out? Yeah. So this
Speaker 1: year with the 17 site visits, we do really have
Speaker 1: to credit the City of Jennings. We, they came up
Speaker 1: with this amazing Curb Appeal program contest that they, yeah,
Speaker 1: they partnered with M DC and VCH and a couple
Speaker 1: of their entities and provided free plants to people who
Speaker 1: signed up for this program. And
Speaker 1: part of it was ABC H consultation and report that
Speaker 1: we went really in depth over the different species they
Speaker 1: were eligible for. And we helped kind of curate the
Speaker 1: collection of, oh, you have a sunny yard, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get this set of species or you have a very
Speaker 1: shady yard, you're gonna get a different set of species
Speaker 1: because you can't just expect the shade plants to work
Speaker 1: well on the sun yard, right? And we're also in
Speaker 1: the process of forming a partner
Speaker 1: to get free canopy trees out to tier one areas
Speaker 1: as well to restore that missing canopy layer. And what
Speaker 1: does the canopy tree provide other than shade is that,
Speaker 1: is that the reason why you want that particular type
Speaker 1: of tree out? I mean, part of it, you think
Speaker 1: about how much you rely on shade in the summer,
Speaker 1: especially in, um
Speaker 1: you know, I like to equate to, I used to
Speaker 1: live in the Tower Grove neighborhood and walking my dog
Speaker 1: in the summer with all those huge trees was no problem.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed doing that. I've since moved to a different
Speaker 1: neighborhood in South City where that canopy tree layer is
Speaker 1: not there and I will not walk my dogs in
Speaker 1: the summer all suns up. Um There's a substantial, it's
Speaker 1: called the heat island effect, but there's a substantial temperature
Speaker 1: difference when you're missing that canopy layer.
Speaker 1: So what we found is a lot of these tier
Speaker 1: one areas, people maybe can't afford to take care of
Speaker 1: these large canopy trees over the years, they've just been
Speaker 1: removed in mass. You're just missing an entire canopy layer.
Speaker 1: And that's important for wildlife. Birds need a variety of
Speaker 1: canopy layers. So we always encourage people to have all
Speaker 1: four canopy layers, ground shrubs, understory trees, large canopy trees.
Speaker 1: Yes. So if we can try to get them in
Speaker 1: the hands of people for free and help them with
Speaker 1: the the guidance of where to plant them, how to
Speaker 1: take care of them. We're happy to do that. Sounds
Speaker 1: like an incredible program. What are some of the events
Speaker 1: that your organization has planned for? 2024? Yeah. So every
Speaker 1: year we do a spring series which is, it's been
Speaker 1: growing and growing every single year. Just a pun intended. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1: Um, it just gets bigger every single year. So it's, um,
Speaker 1: a series of webinars followed by an in person event,
Speaker 1: usually a plant sale with a series of speakers in person.
Speaker 1: And last year we had, I don't have those numbers
Speaker 1: directly in front of me. But last year we had,
Speaker 1: I want to say about 7000 people view our webinars
Speaker 1: because they're through the library system. Um And then they
Speaker 1: cover these webinars, they're different each year, but they cover
Speaker 1: a range of topics from like very introductory level. Hey,
Speaker 1: here's why native plants matter. Hm to very in depth,
Speaker 1: you know, container gardening with native plants or a panel
Speaker 1: of gardeners and what they do at their own house
Speaker 1: or edible native plants. So really any kind of interest
Speaker 1: you can access through these webinars which we are saving
Speaker 1: and uploading on our youtube channel. So those are accessible
Speaker 1: from previous years. And then like I said in person
Speaker 1: plant sale, we're really all about putting plants in,
Speaker 1: in someone's hand. Yeah. So if you can, if you
Speaker 1: can come and learn about plants and then take them
Speaker 1: home and actually plant them. That's like just us. What
Speaker 1: advice would you give to someone who's
Speaker 1: interested in exploring native gardening in their own home? How
Speaker 1: should they, aside from calling you or emailing you and
Speaker 1: getting on that, wait list? What can they do? First
Speaker 1: of all, do you research on where to get native
Speaker 1: plants in the Saint Louis area? We are so incredibly
Speaker 1: lucky in Saint Louis. I'm not sure people are aware
Speaker 1: of this. We're kind of a hub for native plants
Speaker 1: in the country. Yeah, I'm not gonna go out and
Speaker 1: say that we're number one or anything, but we um
Speaker 1: coming myself, coming from Mount Saint Louis. Um and
Speaker 1: studying this for years, I can say like this is
Speaker 1: a really hot spot for this kind of activity. So
Speaker 1: we have a lot of native plant specific nurseries in
Speaker 1: Saint Louis. So I encourage you to go and get
Speaker 1: plants from a local grower, not a big box store,
Speaker 1: like a home improvement store, but a local native plant
Speaker 1: grower and those who those are are um We list
Speaker 1: them on our website and our partners and everything but
Speaker 1: go get a plant and try it.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to fail because I do this for
Speaker 1: a living and I can't tell you how many plants
Speaker 1: I've killed. Um It's all about finding the right fit
Speaker 1: for your environment and that's part of what BC H
Speaker 1: is here. To do. But also it's about so many
Speaker 1: different variables that are sometimes just unforeseen. So it's about experimentation.
Speaker 1: Um It's about patience and it's really fun when things work.
Speaker 1: And do you have any personal insight into why Saint
Speaker 1: Louis is, as you said,
Speaker 1: a bit of a hub for native gardening. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been asked that so many times. I really don't. Um,
Speaker 1: I think just there with BC H being over a
Speaker 1: decade old, that's kind of, that was riding the very
Speaker 1: early waves. And so I think it's just been very
Speaker 1: well established with our various municipalities. U City and Bloom
Speaker 1: is a very well established. I, I wish I had
Speaker 1: a better answer. I'm happy that it's great. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's incredible
Speaker 1: win for Saint Louis for sure. I understand that there's
Speaker 1: a mental health component to living in an area with
Speaker 1: a lot of green space have. Do you find that
Speaker 1: to be true? Yeah, there's a lot of research coming
Speaker 1: out recently that shows a direct correlation between high quality
Speaker 1: natural area in green space and better mental health and
Speaker 1: lower stress levels. So that's just another benefit to increase
Speaker 1: native landscaping. Thank you so much for your time today. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on it. So fun.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Join your Saint Louis symphony orchestra and music director, Stephane
Speaker 1: de Neve on February 2nd as international sensation and Saint
Speaker 1: Louis favorite violinist Augustin Hadle Returns. For Samuel Barber's lyrical
Speaker 1: violin concerto,
Speaker 1: then discover pioneer composer Florence Pearce's third symphony that blends
Speaker 1: passion with great tunes and danceable rhythms on February 2nd
Speaker 1: at Ump's Two Hill Performing Arts Center. Buy your tickets
Speaker 1: today at slso.org.
Speaker 1: And now for our next guest, Susie Vander, Ret of
Speaker 1: ST Louis Native Plants. Welcome to the studio. Thanks Veronica.
Speaker 1: I'm interested to know when and how you became interested
Speaker 1: in native gardens.
Speaker 2: So in 2009, I purchased my first home
Speaker 2: and uh when I first moved in there, I was
Speaker 2: looking at the landscape which is basically turf grass and
Speaker 2: some boxwood shrubs and then some live forever. We basically
Speaker 2: the only plants that were there and then a bunch
Speaker 2: of weeds basically. And I was trying to figure out
Speaker 2: from asking friends and family kind of, what do I
Speaker 2: do with this? How do I take care of this?
Speaker 2: And what else can I put here? And a lot
Speaker 2: of the response that I got was, uh involved,
Speaker 2: you know, putting fertilizers down or lots of watering or
Speaker 2: just lots of maintenance. And, um, you know, I, I'm
Speaker 2: kind of a skeptical person by nature and so I,
Speaker 2: you know, consulted Google and a quick Google search of,
Speaker 2: you know, uh environmentally friendly or ecofriendly plants in Missouri
Speaker 2: yielded the result of Missouri native plants. And so that
Speaker 2: was how I originally stumbled on it.
Speaker 2: And I really, what drew me to it was that
Speaker 2: they seemed like a more environmentally friendly plant that they
Speaker 2: could
Speaker 2: exist with our climate conditions and, um, that they didn't
Speaker 2: need all of this extra water or fertilizing or, you know,
Speaker 2: weed killer or different things like that. They just didn't
Speaker 2: need that sort of treatment. And
Speaker 1: so, were you a gardener before you purchased the
Speaker 2: house? Not necessarily, um, I do, I guess it kind of,
Speaker 2: it runs in my veins a little bit. My grandpa,
Speaker 2: actually on my mom's side, worked at Missouri Botanical Gardens
Speaker 2: as their floriculture for 60 plus years, possibly until
Speaker 2: passed away. And so kind of, we've had a lot
Speaker 2: of exposure to it and my family gardened a fair
Speaker 2: amount uh in different ways, but uh I had not
Speaker 2: really done a whole lot myself at that point.
Speaker 1: Wow. And so what was that journey like for you?
Speaker 1: How did you go about that process of creating a
Speaker 1: native garden? It was a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. So, uh I just did, I did a
Speaker 2: lot of digging online and I consulted a lot of
Speaker 2: like any little rabbit hole that I would get led to.
Speaker 2: I would go down. And so, you know, when I
Speaker 2: first stumbled across native plants, there were
Speaker 2: resources through uh Missouri Department of Conservation that I came across.
Speaker 2: And so I would, you know, kind of look at
Speaker 2: those a little bit and they would give a little
Speaker 2: bit of guidance on placement and what types of plants
Speaker 2: to use for like a bird garden. Uh And then
Speaker 2: I reached out to the Shan Nature Reserve, Scott Woodbury
Speaker 2: was working out there still at that time. And, um
Speaker 2: I asked him, you know about their native plant classes
Speaker 2: which were only offered during the date at that time.
Speaker 2: And I had a full time job. It's like, ok,
Speaker 2: so basically I need to wait until I'm retired to
Speaker 2: be able to get into this and learn more about this.
Speaker 2: And so then he pointed me in the direction of
Speaker 2: um the Saint Louis Audubon Society with their brain conservation
Speaker 2: home program because uh he thought that if I got
Speaker 2: involved as a habitat advisor with them, I could learn
Speaker 2: a lot about native plants specifically. And so I dove
Speaker 2: into that and learned it was online, it was through
Speaker 2: Grow Natives website. They have a lot of information there too,
Speaker 2: through the Shaw Nature Reserve, just any place that I
Speaker 2: could find it. And so
Speaker 1: then when did you launch your business?
Speaker 2: Uh officially in 2014, the business
Speaker 1: is meant to
Speaker 1: consult you do landscape design work and also education, correct?
Speaker 1: How has that gone for you so far? Do you
Speaker 1: are people interested in learning about native gardens? It's
Speaker 2: been, yes. Uh It's been a lot of fun. People
Speaker 2: are really on this bandwagon right now. It seems like
Speaker 2: people are really just continually getting more and more excited
Speaker 2: about native plants. Most of the people who seek me out,
Speaker 2: I think somewhat because of my, what's in my business name,
Speaker 2: Saint Louis, native plants when people are also doing things
Speaker 2: like
Speaker 2: Google searching, you know, if they're looking specifically for native
Speaker 2: plants in Saint Louis that they can stumble across me.
Speaker 2: So a lot of the people that come to me
Speaker 2: are already very interested in having native plants as their
Speaker 2: total landscaper as part of their landscape. But I think
Speaker 2: even more um, gardeners are who weren't maybe as into
Speaker 2: that at first are starting to get a little more
Speaker 2: into it just because, you know, we have these flooding events,
Speaker 2: we have these extreme drought events. Um We're hearing in
Speaker 2: the news things about, um,
Speaker 2: you know, insects or songbirds disappearing and, you know, just
Speaker 2: all of these different things that are coming up and
Speaker 2: native plants really offer a way to uh feel like
Speaker 2: we can make a difference just with our yard.
Speaker 1: And so when you're meeting a client for the first time,
Speaker 1: can you walk us a little bit through that process?
Speaker 2: Sure. So I really tailor my appointments with clients to
Speaker 2: whatever they're hoping to gain from it. So,
Speaker 2: uh if somebody contacts me and say that they're kind
Speaker 2: of a do it yourself kind of client, then I
Speaker 2: would go out there. I would meet with them for
Speaker 2: an hour or more if they asked me to do so,
Speaker 2: and we would walk their site, we would look at
Speaker 2: everything we talk about their ideals, we look at what
Speaker 2: their site conditions are. So, does the area hold much
Speaker 2: moisture or is it kind of high and dry? Is
Speaker 2: it fully exposed in the sun or is it something
Speaker 2: that gets more shade? We would look at all of
Speaker 2: those things together
Speaker 2: and then we would talk about, like I said, their ideals,
Speaker 2: uh you know, are they trying to attract more pollinators?
Speaker 2: Are they trying to attract more birds? Are they trying
Speaker 2: to deal with some sort of storm water management? Uh
Speaker 2: you know, just different things like that. And so we,
Speaker 2: we talk about the problems that they might be having
Speaker 2: and then uh we will talk about how to best
Speaker 2: get rid of the existing vegetation.
Speaker 2: And if there is any to get rid of, uh
Speaker 2: that's a very important first step and then we would
Speaker 2: talk about specific plant species that might be ideal for
Speaker 2: those site conditions and to help work with their ideals.
Speaker 2: Uh If they really wanna lay everything out themselves, we
Speaker 2: also might talk about how to lay them out in
Speaker 2: a way that is aesthetically pleasing for them, for people
Speaker 2: walking by.
Speaker 2: Um We definitely wanna make sure that it's functional, you know,
Speaker 2: so that it's not, you know, people are walking past
Speaker 2: the bed and they're getting hit in the face with,
Speaker 2: you know, a sunflower or something like that or make
Speaker 2: sure that everything is in line with that. So that's
Speaker 2: pretty much what we talk through. Um And then, you know,
Speaker 2: if there's any other coaching that they need, you know,
Speaker 2: we kind of address that at that time.
Speaker 1: Is there a particular look or aesthetic that Saint Louis
Speaker 1: gardeners tend to want over others or are you seeing
Speaker 1: a range of
Speaker 2: interests? I would say that there is a range, but
Speaker 2: generally speaking, most people don't want to be spending a
Speaker 2: ton of time
Speaker 2: maintaining their landscape. And so that actually guides how the
Speaker 2: garden looks a little bit because um certain types of gardens,
Speaker 2: for instance, gardens that include uh native plants that are prolific,
Speaker 2: self cedars, they are going to need more maintenance and
Speaker 2: they might be a little bit harder or trickier to
Speaker 2: maintain than, you know, a garden that features plants that
Speaker 2: are more clump forming or mound forming and don't spread
Speaker 2: quite as aggressively by seed. And so, uh there's just
Speaker 2: different ways I think to work
Speaker 2: with that. But I think generally speaking, people want something
Speaker 2: that looks like it's an intentional garden uh so that
Speaker 2: it doesn't upset their neighbors. And also so that it's
Speaker 2: pleasant for them to look at. It depends on the size,
Speaker 2: it depends on the scope, right? You know, so sometimes
Speaker 2: people are like, yeah, I want, I want a wild garden,
Speaker 2: I want a prairie. So in that case, you know,
Speaker 2: the approach is a little bit different, I
Speaker 1: think and correct me if I'm wrong. But I think
Speaker 1: there is a misconception around native gardens that they are
Speaker 1: all wild in appearance, right?
Speaker 1: But I think you can have a lot of different
Speaker 1: um elements such as a water garden, a rock garden,
Speaker 1: a perennial garden, et cetera. Um I suppose it's just
Speaker 1: a matter of
Speaker 1: looking at various uh native gardens and seeing what appeals
Speaker 1: to you. Absolute. How about for someone who wants an
Speaker 1: orderly symmetrical looking garden, right? Like I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are interested in that French garden look, is
Speaker 1: that possible to achieve with native plants?
Speaker 2: Definitely. So I I think that and that's, you know,
Speaker 2: when we talk about using things that are mound forming
Speaker 2: or clump flooring plants instead of things that are
Speaker 2: going to be prolific, self cedars. I think that's one
Speaker 2: way to do that we can incorporate some other design
Speaker 2: guidelines or principles to, to make that happen. Incorporating borders
Speaker 2: is a really big thing that you hear across anybody
Speaker 2: that's talking about native garden design. You always want borders.
Speaker 2: You know, you can even alternate between some low growing
Speaker 2: ground cover borders that will be kind of give you
Speaker 2: a little bit of variety, but still give you that
Speaker 2: sort of finished look and something that's very intentional. A
Speaker 2: lot of people talk about using turf grass as borders
Speaker 2: too to kind of keep things in that realm.
Speaker 2: Um And we also uh just specific plant species, I
Speaker 2: think lend themselves to being a little more just organized looking.
Speaker 2: Uh We do have a sprinkling of plants from our
Speaker 2: palate that are evergreen or semi evergreen. So I think
Speaker 2: including things like that also helps to bring a little
Speaker 2: bit more of that look, which always tends to appeal
Speaker 2: to people. Everybody wants to see green in the winter
Speaker 2: time too. So,
Speaker 1: um and I think that people also think that native
Speaker 1: gardens are
Speaker 1: low maintenance across the board. And I know that ground
Speaker 1: covers in particular can be a low maintenance plant to
Speaker 1: care for. Is that true about the low maintenance aspect of,
Speaker 1: of native gardens? Or is there a range?
Speaker 2: It depends. So there is definitely a range. Um,
Speaker 2: ground covers really help to make uh native gardens. I
Speaker 2: think of a bit more low maintenance because, you know,
Speaker 2: just one simple example of that is if you have, um,
Speaker 2: you know, where you would normally be putting down mulch
Speaker 2: between plants, uh and it would give it kind of
Speaker 2: that finished look and it'll help to suppress weeds. It
Speaker 2: will help to protect the soil and keep some of
Speaker 2: that moisture and keep the ground from drying and cracking
Speaker 2: ground covers can do the same thing. And so they
Speaker 2: can help to suppress weeds because they take up that
Speaker 2: valuable soil, real estate area that weeds would otherwise make
Speaker 2: their way into. Um, they will keep the ground from
Speaker 2: drying and cracking.
Speaker 2: Um And, and they also will just give, again, kind
Speaker 2: of an organized look, uh if you apply them. And
Speaker 2: so I think that that is one way to make
Speaker 2: things lower maintenance. But certainly if you have an abundance of,
Speaker 2: you know, diversity of plants and, you know, you just
Speaker 2: plunk hundreds of plants in one small space together and
Speaker 2: their self cedars and, you know, that's going to be
Speaker 2: a lot more maintenance for somebody. And so you really
Speaker 2: just have to kind of
Speaker 2: that with, you know, if somebody wants something lower maintenance,
Speaker 2: maybe a larger grouping of plantains or multiple larger groupings,
Speaker 2: mass plantings of one species, plant is going to help
Speaker 2: with that too. And can
Speaker 1: gardeners um phase in the native landscapes and the native
Speaker 1: uh plants and shrubs or is it something that has
Speaker 1: to happen all at once? I
Speaker 2: typically encourage people to drink
Speaker 2: big and start small. So I think that it's a
Speaker 2: wonderful thing if somebody, you know, if somebody says, ok,
Speaker 2: so I've got a landscape full of box foots, you know,
Speaker 2: and hostas and things like that. But I have these
Speaker 2: gaps between my plants where I would like to put natives.
Speaker 2: And so you can just take maybe one or two
Speaker 2: species of natives and kind of fill in those gaps
Speaker 2: with just some natives that work well on that site.
Speaker 2: Um You know, because not everybody wants a fully
Speaker 2: landscape. And so, and that's ok. Um Everybody's got their
Speaker 2: personal preference of what they want. And so I recently
Speaker 2: had a client where I, I, you know, they wanted
Speaker 2: the borders to be filled up or otherwise would have
Speaker 2: been mulched. And so I gave them a lot of
Speaker 2: low growing ground covers for their borders. But then they
Speaker 2: also did have a number of box woods where they
Speaker 2: wanted some gaps filled in with native plants. And so
Speaker 2: while their overall plan didn't look like they had a
Speaker 2: ton of species being added in,
Speaker 2: did have some really valuable, um, plant material that was
Speaker 2: being added in there for pollinators and an abundance of wildlife.
Speaker 2: So really can make a big difference even just with
Speaker 2: a small amount. I
Speaker 1: love that. That is so cool. What do you hear
Speaker 1: from your clients? Uh, would you say after they go
Speaker 1: through this process with you, something that surprises them or
Speaker 1: that caught them off guard about, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: the nature of
Speaker 1: native gardens,
Speaker 2: you know, I think, um, sometimes people are surprised at, um,
Speaker 2: how quickly things will start to show up, you know,
Speaker 2: Dave TKA. I, I've heard him say frequently if you
Speaker 2: build it, they will come. And so, um, you know,
Speaker 2: if you plant it, they will come and, and if
Speaker 2: you plant just one species, you know, maybe a few milkweed,
Speaker 2: uh different things like that, you know, it's amazing how
Speaker 2: quick you start to see wildlife come back. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, I've, I've had a number of clients who
Speaker 2: have expressed that, that they're just elated at this, you know,
Speaker 2: and delighted at, at the fact that they just put
Speaker 2: in a few of these plants. And then the next
Speaker 2: year they start seeing things like monarch butterflies showing up more,
Speaker 2: you know, implants and, um, you know, they start seeing
Speaker 2: more different types of bees showing up and just, you know,
Speaker 2: birds come into their garden and it really doesn't take
Speaker 2: that long for it to happen.
Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit about why, why
Speaker 1: is it so important that we have these uh butterflies
Speaker 1: showing up showing up into these environments? Why, why is
Speaker 1: that important?
Speaker 2: You know, this is always a fun question for me
Speaker 2: because my immediate response now is because they're fun to
Speaker 2: look at. But I know that there's, you know, that's
Speaker 2: not necessarily the sell for everybody. And so,
Speaker 2: um you know, I, I think that when we are
Speaker 2: using and applying these native plants in our landscapes, these
Speaker 2: are things that have evolved along with our climate. And
Speaker 2: so they also have evolved along with our local ecosystems,
Speaker 2: which means that um when we have these, you know,
Speaker 2: butterflies that when they're in their larval form or as
Speaker 2: caterpillars will actually be feeding on these plants, um we
Speaker 2: have these bees, you know, that are going to be
Speaker 2: pollinating these plants.
Speaker 2: And uh but we have all of these other invertebrates
Speaker 2: that show up too like mantis, we, you know, beetles
Speaker 2: showing up, we have maths and all of these different things.
Speaker 2: And ultimately this all you know, is incorporated into the
Speaker 2: food web. So the more that we start seeing all
Speaker 2: of these different things, you know, these smaller beans,
Speaker 2: we also start seeing birds showing more. And so songbirds are,
Speaker 2: are very reliant upon insects for food. Um They also
Speaker 2: will feed on the seed heads of these spent flowers.
Speaker 2: They'll feed on berries and different fruits from native plants,
Speaker 2: but they really need those insects for rearing their young.
Speaker 2: So it, it's just, it's so important to have plants
Speaker 2: that bugs are going to be visiting. So that and
Speaker 2: then in turn also have things like songbirds being supported
Speaker 2: and that works, you know, across the whole web
Speaker 1: where can Saint Louis and go to look at native
Speaker 1: gardens and admire native gardens in the area
Speaker 1: anywhere in
Speaker 2: particular. My favorite place to refer people I would say
Speaker 2: is actually not necessarily a place but more garden tours. Um,
Speaker 2: just because people can see how these things are behaving
Speaker 2: in people's yards and how people are applying these in
Speaker 2: different ways in their yards and how they're working, how
Speaker 2: they're not working. They could talk with the homeowners or
Speaker 2: yard owners to
Speaker 2: see, um, kind of what's been their biggest challenge, all
Speaker 2: those different things. Um, so we have some really excellent
Speaker 2: tours where that can happen. Uh, during the summertime, usually
Speaker 2: we have um, the native plant garden tour that happens
Speaker 2: in the summertime, we have uh the sustainable backyard tour,
Speaker 2: which that network usually features a lot of native plant gardens.
Speaker 2: And so that's also an excellent way
Speaker 2: as far as places to visit without getting too far
Speaker 2: into the weeds, so to speak. Um, the Shaw Nature Reserve, uh,
Speaker 2: the Whitmire Wildflower Garden specifically is a beautiful example. I mean,
Speaker 2: a shining example of native design and landscaping. It's just,
Speaker 2: it's gorgeous and there's, you know, there's so many other
Speaker 2: places that are popping up right now, it's almost hard
Speaker 2: to keep track of it and I get excited when
Speaker 2: I see them. Um,
Speaker 2: like there's a, a place that I drive past frequently that,
Speaker 2: uh it's quarrelsome coffee, a new little coffee shop that
Speaker 2: has opened up, I guess, I think in the last
Speaker 2: year or so. And they have this like little strip
Speaker 2: of land that I don't know if it belongs to
Speaker 2: them or if it belongs to the neighbor, the adjacent neighborhood,
Speaker 2: uh where there's a bunch of native plants that got
Speaker 2: planted as quarrelsome coffee opened. So I think maybe it's
Speaker 2: associated with them, but it's just this small pocket of
Speaker 2: land that has these beautiful plants blooming, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of across the growing season, different things, you know, we're
Speaker 2: picking up and it just got planted in the last year.
Speaker 2: And so, um, I think that there's more places that
Speaker 2: are implementing them in parking lots as kind of bios
Speaker 2: wh like rain catchment sort of system.
Speaker 2: Yes. You know, so there's like Missouri Botanical Garden. You
Speaker 2: don't even have to go actually into the garden. You
Speaker 2: can visit their, you know, parking lots basically. So, um
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different places I think, to see them.
Speaker 1: Where would you say are some of the best places
Speaker 1: to buy native plants?
Speaker 2: I would say, don't limit it to the, to these suggestions.
Speaker 2: I think that again, this is kind of like what
Speaker 2: I was just talking about where there's more places, more
Speaker 2: suppliers popping up over time
Speaker 2: and more places are starting to incorporate native plants into
Speaker 2: their retail. I would say green Scape Gardens is definitely
Speaker 2: one of my favorites. Um They're, they have an abundance
Speaker 2: in the retail center for Natives and Suele. He has
Speaker 2: done a lovely job of stocking that up and keeping
Speaker 2: that supplied. I also really like Papillon Perennials which uh
Speaker 2: the owner Cathy Pauley. Um she uh does not have
Speaker 2: a brick and mortar location,
Speaker 2: but she is somebody who you can place orders with
Speaker 2: and you can actually do pick up with her and
Speaker 2: she shows up to a number of plant sale events too.
Speaker 2: So that's Papillon perennials um Missouri Wildflower Nursery. Uh They
Speaker 2: have a an amazing selection. They will actually ship orders
Speaker 2: um directly to you that you place online. You can
Speaker 2: also find them at different plant sale events too, um,
Speaker 2: locally or you can have a nice little road trip
Speaker 2: out to their location.
Speaker 2: Um, Forest Keeling, uh, nursery is also a really great
Speaker 2: place for shrubs and trees and they're located in Elsbury, Missouri. And, uh,
Speaker 2: another place locally that I'd want to give a shout
Speaker 2: out to, uh, would be, um, Forest Relief, which they
Speaker 2: operate kind of seasonally, but they're located out at Crieff
Speaker 2: Corp Park and they are more of a place for
Speaker 2: like trees, primarily, maybe shrubs a bit too good uh
Speaker 2: native trees.
Speaker 2: And uh and they're also, they contribute uh broadly to
Speaker 2: um community kind of efforts to uh actually get trees
Speaker 2: planted in areas that maybe are underserved. Um
Speaker 2: And so, uh they don't want anybody to be limited
Speaker 2: on their ability to have trees based off of their income.
Speaker 2: And so they're really a great organization to support
Speaker 2: and I would say pure air native would be another one,
Speaker 2: especially if you're looking for seeds. Um You know, and
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily start from live plants that would be
Speaker 2: a really viable option too.
Speaker 1: These are incredible recommendations, some of which I never heard of.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Let's talk about magnolia trees.
Speaker 1: I know that they are a favorite among Saint Louis Sins.
Speaker 1: I actually bought three magnolias
Speaker 1: last year. Was that a good choice to make if
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be environmentally minded? So
Speaker 2: I think if you're trying to be environmentally conscientious in
Speaker 2: that way that I would say that most magnolias that
Speaker 2: are planted around here are not native, but I wouldn't,
Speaker 2: you know, consider or I don't know any of them
Speaker 2: to be considered invasive as far as non natives go.
Speaker 2: We do
Speaker 2: have a uh native magnolia tree to the state of Missouri.
Speaker 2: Not many people plant them because the flowers are kind
Speaker 2: of funky looking. They don't look anything like a saucer
Speaker 2: magnolia or star or sweet by magnolia flowers. Uh And
Speaker 2: what you do tend to see with, um, the non
Speaker 2: native magnolias is you will actually frequently see um beetles
Speaker 2: on the flowers or visiting the flowers as pollinators of
Speaker 2: those flowers. And so while
Speaker 2: they're not necessarily, uh they may not provide quite as
Speaker 2: much in the realm of, you know, something that maybe
Speaker 2: a native tree would supply depending on what kind of
Speaker 2: um native tree you had, especially if it was something
Speaker 2: like an oak. But uh they are not, they're not
Speaker 2: an invasive species, like I said, as I'm aware and
Speaker 2: they're not harming uh anything by being there. So
Speaker 1: you can have non native plants, trees, shrubs
Speaker 1: in your garden and they may not necessarily, that doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they're invasive species. Is that correct? Definitely. Yes. Ok.
Speaker 1: And so how do you determine, I guess that's just
Speaker 1: through
Speaker 1: research and knowing and talking to experts, et cetera. Do
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 2: It's, so that's an interesting question. Um there may be
Speaker 2: some exact criteria that has to line up in such
Speaker 2: a way for something to be called invasive. Um I
Speaker 2: will say that sometimes the term invasive gets thrown at natives,
Speaker 2: which is not something that conservationists
Speaker 2: would use. You know, typically the, the term that would
Speaker 2: be applied to a native plant that maybe is acting
Speaker 2: somewhat invasive in its behavior would be aggressive is usually
Speaker 2: how people would refer to that. Um but not invasive
Speaker 2: because invasive is something that's only applied to something that
Speaker 2: is a non native species and is invading and suppressing
Speaker 2: uh growth of surrounding plants. And so, like I said,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if there's actually a particular line kind
Speaker 2: of or number that you would be looking for to,
Speaker 2: to call something or classify something as an invasive species.
Speaker 2: But um from what I understand, an invasive species is
Speaker 2: gonna be a non native species can be something that
Speaker 2: spreads somewhat uncontrollably um and invades uh surrounding habitat and
Speaker 2: suppresses native plants from actually being able to grow. And
Speaker 1: so then native plants
Speaker 1: can act aggressively. Yes, they can. Ok. And that would
Speaker 1: involve some of the actions that you just described.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. So they could, they could, they could find
Speaker 2: their way into surrounding gardens or landscapes, they could possibly
Speaker 2: make it harder for other plants to grow even other
Speaker 2: native plants. And so, you know, even in like in
Speaker 2: conservation of forests, you'll see that there will be thinning
Speaker 2: even of some native trees because even,
Speaker 2: you know, where you have an area where there's a
Speaker 2: bunch of native trees growing. If you have too much
Speaker 2: of that uh happening, they're going to suppress other growth
Speaker 2: from happening. And so just in the by the nature
Speaker 2: of how things grow, um they're gonna be shading out
Speaker 2: the ground. And so the more that the ground is shaded,
Speaker 2: it's gonna make, make it harder or more difficult for
Speaker 2: other plant species to be able to reach towards the sunlight.
Speaker 2: And so they can definitely do that. And that's where,
Speaker 2: you know, it, it makes sense to really carefully consider
Speaker 2: plant species. You know, if somebody tells me I don't
Speaker 2: want something high maintenance and I don't want something that's
Speaker 2: gonna jump all over my yard that right there rules
Speaker 2: out a lot, a number of plant species. Um, you know,
Speaker 2: just because
Speaker 2: I don't want to give somebody a maintenance nightmare.
Speaker 1: Right. Right. It sounds like there's just so much to
Speaker 1: know and learn and understand about gardens and, and the
Speaker 1: way we interact with them.
Speaker 1: And now I'd like to start with our round of
Speaker 1: lightning questions. This is always a fun one. What is
Speaker 1: your favorite native flower?
Speaker 2: It's a very tough one. Depends on what's in blue. Uh,
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna go with Rattlesnake Master whose botanical name
Speaker 2: is Orum. Yucca folium.
Speaker 1: What's a non native flower or plant that everyone thinks
Speaker 1: is native to our region.
Speaker 2: Butterfly bush
Speaker 1: prettiest native tree to plant in a south facing front
Speaker 1: yard for
Speaker 2: a small yard, I'd say a red bud or a
Speaker 2: circus Canadensis or for a large yard. I would say
Speaker 2: an oak tree, maybe a *** ain oak
Speaker 1: most harmful non native plant tree flower in our area.
Speaker 1: But I
Speaker 2: there's some rivals there, but I would say the Japanese
Speaker 2: uh bush honeysuckle would probably be a
Speaker 1: top native gardens. Make me feel joy
Speaker 1: when I see a landscape or garden converted from non
Speaker 1: native to native. The first thing that comes to mind
Speaker 1: is
Speaker 2: the patchwork is coming together to be a quilt for wildlife.
Speaker 1: A good book to read or learn about native landscapes.
Speaker 2: Tough one. But I'm gonna say as a starting point,
Speaker 2: anything by Doug telling me
Speaker 1: your favorite garden insect
Speaker 2: go with the uh great black wasp.
Speaker 1: If you had room to plant more native flowers, which
Speaker 1: one would you
Speaker 2: choose? If I had more room, I would plant trees,
Speaker 2: lots and lots of oak trees or something like that.
Speaker 2: Uh Trees,
Speaker 1: Saint Louis is a great place to learn to garden
Speaker 1: because
Speaker 2: Saint Louis Audubon Society and Saint Louis wild ones especially
Speaker 2: are very supportive.
Speaker 1: You, Susie. This was wonderful. I appreciate all of the
Speaker 1: information and insight. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: And now it's time for these views. I love to learn.
Speaker 1: I think anyone who knows me knows how much I
Speaker 1: am curious about the world around me. And I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about taking some classes this year and I wanted to
Speaker 1: highlight three that have caught my interest.
Speaker 1: The first is Orchid Show photography at Missouri Botanical Garden
Speaker 1: on February the 15th from 530 to 8 p.m.
Speaker 1: All levels of experience are welcome and you would get
Speaker 1: rare access to the orchid show to take photos with
Speaker 1: professional guidance. This seems like something really great for both
Speaker 1: beginners and those of us who want to take our
Speaker 1: photo skills. One step forward. The next class on my
Speaker 1: list is Darin and mending at perennial.
Speaker 1: And if you're not familiar with perennial, this is a
Speaker 1: local nonprofit that offers educational programming and creative reuse and
Speaker 1: sells handmade diy kits and tools for reuse projects.
Speaker 1: I took a class there last year and I had
Speaker 1: a great experience and this one is all about learning
Speaker 1: how to repair holes in woven and knit garments using
Speaker 1: traditional mending and darning techniques
Speaker 1: scheduled for January 20th from 10 a.m. to 1230. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think we're just gonna all sit around
Speaker 1: and will be provided with holy sample swatches that we
Speaker 1: can practice on and um improve our skills so that
Speaker 1: when our clothes tire out a bit, we don't throw
Speaker 1: them out necessarily, but we mend them and we try
Speaker 1: to keep them in our closet rotation.
Speaker 1: And lastly, there's a tour at the Pulitzer Arts Foundation
Speaker 1: on January 20th from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. that
Speaker 1: will take visitors inside the Tadao Ando building to learn
Speaker 1: more about the incredible architecture
Speaker 1: of that space. We'll learn from Mark Whelan of B
Speaker 1: SI constructors and he will talk about his time working
Speaker 1: on that building from the ground up alongside the architect
Speaker 1: and his team. I'm sure it's going to be a
Speaker 1: really interesting tour. Something to think about as you get
Speaker 1: your year underway.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the House of Lou. Be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us and share the episode with your friends.
Speaker 1: Be in touch with us through my newsletter, design and
Speaker 1: home at STL mag.com/newsletters and follow us on Instagram. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time and just remember there's so much
Speaker 1: to see in Saint Louis if you know where to look.