1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,950 Speaker 1: Welcome to Christian Parent, Crazy World, the podcast that tackles 2 00:00:10,050 --> 00:00:12,990 Speaker 1: tough topics to help you be a godly parent in 3 00:00:13,030 --> 00:00:16,550 Speaker 1: an ungodly world. I am your host, Katherine Segers, and 4 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:19,710 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the hardest things to see are the 5 00:00:19,770 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: things happening right in front of us, but we don't 6 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:25,540 Speaker 1: see it. So ask yourself this, what if the person 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: you love the most isn't okay, and you don't even 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:29,740 Speaker 1: know it? 9 00:00:30,340 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: Hmm. 10 00:00:31,250 --> 00:00:33,390 Speaker 1: We all have men in our lives that we care 11 00:00:33,450 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: deeply about, our husbands, our sons, our fathers, our brothers, 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,260 Speaker 1: our friends. But there is a mental health crisis happening 13 00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: among men that is often hidden in plain sight. Consider this. 14 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,410 Speaker 1: Men make up about half of the U.S. population, but 15 00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:54,310 Speaker 1: they account for nearly 80% of suicide deaths. Their suicide 16 00:00:54,370 --> 00:00:58,070 Speaker 1: rate is roughly four times that of women, and men 17 00:00:58,370 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: often don't seek help. Until they're already in a crisis. 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: So what are we missing? What does a mental health 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: crisis actually look like in a man or a boy? 20 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:12,140 Speaker 1: And how can we recognize those signs before we're faced 21 00:01:12,310 --> 00:01:14,789 Speaker 1: with a tragedy? That's the ground we will cover in 22 00:01:14,830 --> 00:01:26,949 Speaker 1: this episode of Christian Parent Crazy World. I want to 23 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: tell you why today's conversation feels personal. particularly personal to me. 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: It's actually a little raw. Two weeks ago, I was 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,260 Speaker 1: at my new homeschool co-op here outside of Nashville when 26 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,470 Speaker 1: I got a very strange text from the mother of 27 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:45,530 Speaker 1: my son's best friend. She asked me how my oldest son, 28 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:47,610 Speaker 1: who is now in college, he lives about seven and 29 00:01:47,650 --> 00:01:50,550 Speaker 1: a half hours away from us, she asked how he 30 00:01:50,590 --> 00:01:53,950 Speaker 1: was doing after hearing the news about one of their 31 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: friend's And I hadn't heard anything because we had just 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,060 Speaker 1: moved to another state that's three hours north. So I said, look, 33 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. And she said, 34 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: I'll call you. Two seconds later, my phone rang and 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,620 Speaker 1: I stepped out of my younger son's classroom to take 36 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: the call. Now, I assumed she was going to tell 37 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: me about, I don't know, maybe a car accident or 38 00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:18,859 Speaker 1: a difficult diagnosis, probably something bad, maybe. But I never 39 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:23,070 Speaker 1: imagined what she was about to say. A young man 40 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:25,570 Speaker 1: who had been a former student of mine, he was 41 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:29,370 Speaker 1: actually in my comedy improv class, and he had also 42 00:02:29,410 --> 00:02:32,989 Speaker 1: been on my son's baseball team, had taken his own 43 00:02:33,070 --> 00:02:38,700 Speaker 1: life the day before. Later that day, when I opened 44 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: my email, I saw an article from today's guest, Dr. 45 00:02:42,460 --> 00:02:46,060 Speaker 1: Tyler Evans, and the title was, How to Show Up 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: for the Men in Your Life Right Now. And that 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,380 Speaker 1: just did not seem like a coincidence to me. September 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,730 Speaker 1: is National Suicide Awareness Prevention Month. And while suicide is 49 00:02:58,770 --> 00:03:02,050 Speaker 1: an issue we need to talk about year-round, this month 50 00:03:02,470 --> 00:03:05,290 Speaker 1: gives us an opportunity to stop and ask some difficult 51 00:03:05,330 --> 00:03:10,090 Speaker 1: questions about the men and boys that we love. Because 52 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: after attending that funeral, I can tell you this, I 53 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:17,500 Speaker 1: never want to go to another funeral like that again. 54 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: Dr. 55 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: Evans believes that we need to be talking much more 56 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,570 Speaker 1: openly about men's mental health because men are experiencing a 57 00:03:25,790 --> 00:03:30,690 Speaker 1: crisis that often goes unnoticed until it becomes acute. Now, 58 00:03:30,730 --> 00:03:33,669 Speaker 1: men make up about half of the population, yet they 59 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:38,190 Speaker 1: account for nearly 80% of suicide deaths. And the problem 60 00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:41,510 Speaker 1: isn't simply suicide. It's what happens in the days and 61 00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:45,830 Speaker 1: months and sometimes years before someone reaches that point. So 62 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:48,130 Speaker 1: what are we missing? What does suffering look like in 63 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:50,650 Speaker 1: a man or a boy who may never say, hey, 64 00:03:50,970 --> 00:03:54,230 Speaker 1: I'm struggling? And how do we learn to recognize those 65 00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:58,630 Speaker 1: signs before we're sitting at a funeral wondering what we 66 00:03:58,690 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: could have done differently? 67 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: Dr. 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,580 Speaker 1: Evans is an infectious disease physician. He's an epidemiologist and 69 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,260 Speaker 1: a public health leader who has practiced medicine in more 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,620 Speaker 1: than 110 countries for over four decades. He's also the 71 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: author of Pandemic's poverty, and politics, and he has served 72 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,170 Speaker 1: as the first chief medical officer for the New York 73 00:04:20,230 --> 00:04:24,250 Speaker 1: City's COVID-19 response. So with that kind of experience, I 74 00:04:24,410 --> 00:04:26,229 Speaker 1: think we have got the right person to help us 75 00:04:26,290 --> 00:04:29,489 Speaker 1: understand what we're missing when it comes to the men 76 00:04:29,750 --> 00:04:32,310 Speaker 1: and the boys that we love. So with that said, 77 00:04:32,330 --> 00:04:36,700 Speaker 1: I will take you to my conversation with Dr. Tyler Evans. 78 00:04:37,540 --> 00:04:37,860 Speaker 2: Dr. 79 00:04:37,980 --> 00:04:41,140 Speaker 1: Evans, welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World. It's such an 80 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,180 Speaker 1: honor to have you here today. 81 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: I appreciate you having me. 82 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,620 Speaker 1: So you have spent four decades on the front lines 83 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:50,810 Speaker 1: of medicine, including street medicine, crisis response, and you've practiced 84 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:54,250 Speaker 1: in more than 110 countries. You've seen some people in 85 00:04:54,610 --> 00:04:59,410 Speaker 1: some incredibly difficult places and circumstances. So what have you 86 00:04:59,510 --> 00:05:02,740 Speaker 1: seen in men in particular? And what has happened in 87 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: your own journey that has made men's mental health such 88 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,100 Speaker 1: an important issue for you? 89 00:05:08,650 --> 00:05:12,070 Speaker 2: Sure. So we see, just kind of zooming out, we 90 00:05:12,130 --> 00:05:14,420 Speaker 2: see when it comes to mental health, we see too 91 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,900 Speaker 2: many men suffering from mental health and not expressing the 92 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: challenges that they're sort of suffering from. And I can 93 00:05:22,660 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: get into what I believe the root causes are. And 94 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,580 Speaker 2: we particularly see that sort of manifest. There's definitely a 95 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: universality to it, but it's more sort of manifest with 96 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:33,460 Speaker 2: certain cultural groups. 97 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: Both in the U.S. and beyond. 98 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: We definitely see more of a manifestation of that. We 99 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: refer to like countries in low and middle income countries, 100 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,250 Speaker 2: we refer to them as the global South. So Sub-Saharan Africa, 101 00:05:46,290 --> 00:05:49,450 Speaker 2: Middle East, et cetera, Latin America. We definitely see more 102 00:05:49,510 --> 00:05:52,550 Speaker 2: of a sort of suppression of sort of mental health 103 00:05:52,589 --> 00:05:55,950 Speaker 2: challenges in those countries for a number of reasons. 104 00:05:56,630 --> 00:05:57,710 Speaker 3: In my personal journey, I. 105 00:05:59,730 --> 00:06:04,210 Speaker 2: Grew up in a household where my parents, mostly my mother, 106 00:06:04,250 --> 00:06:08,470 Speaker 2: suffered from depression and alcoholism. And so I saw that 107 00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:13,770 Speaker 2: kind of impact our family dynamics and impact our ability 108 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,310 Speaker 2: to pay the bills. 109 00:06:15,450 --> 00:06:17,070 Speaker 3: And we were housing insecure, et cetera. 110 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: So being able to now, as a physician leader with agency, 111 00:06:23,460 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: being able to do something about it is very important 112 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:26,100 Speaker 2: to me. 113 00:06:26,540 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: Yes. 114 00:06:27,060 --> 00:06:27,300 Speaker 2: Yeah. 115 00:06:27,460 --> 00:06:30,190 Speaker 1: I've had my own struggles over the years with mental health. 116 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,470 Speaker 1: And I got your column in my email box recently, 117 00:06:34,510 --> 00:06:36,950 Speaker 1: how to show up for the men in your life 118 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:39,730 Speaker 1: right now. It's not that hard when you know what 119 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:43,180 Speaker 1: to do. That arrived in my email box just a 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,339 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. And one of the statistics, and 121 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: it just stopped me in my tracks, you said that 122 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,110 Speaker 1: nearly four out of every five suicides happens with males. 123 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: And I got that in my email box on the 124 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: very morning that I had found out that one of 125 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,620 Speaker 1: my former students and a young man, 20-year-old man on 126 00:07:05,690 --> 00:07:09,730 Speaker 1: my son's baseball team had ended his life the day before. 127 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:14,090 Speaker 1: And I thought, that can't be a coincidence. I didn't know. 128 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:17,370 Speaker 1: I did not know that statistic. I reached out to 129 00:07:17,410 --> 00:07:20,690 Speaker 1: my son immediately, and he had heard that. But we 130 00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:23,020 Speaker 1: have been grappling with this. I just got back from 131 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,690 Speaker 1: that funeral on Sunday. Sunday, just a few days ago. 132 00:07:28,410 --> 00:07:32,790 Speaker 1: And so I wanted to have this conversation with you 133 00:07:32,850 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: because I want to know what's going on and I 134 00:07:34,980 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: want to try to make a difference. Why is that 135 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: number so dramatically different for men than it is for women? 136 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:41,380 Speaker 3: Sure. 137 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: It is. And I just completely empathize with your loss. 138 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:49,750 Speaker 3: It is so hard, particularly. 139 00:07:49,310 --> 00:07:55,460 Speaker 2: Among young males, because just chronologically, it just that shouldn't 140 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: work that way, you know? Right. Yeah. So there's, you know, 141 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,780 Speaker 2: kind of getting into the root causes, which I often 142 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,340 Speaker 2: like to think about. I wrote a book called Pandemics, 143 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: Poverty and Politics. And I talk a lot about the 144 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,020 Speaker 2: underlying kind of social drivers and determinants and mental health 145 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,100 Speaker 2: is a big one. I'm an adult infectious disease and 146 00:08:15,140 --> 00:08:18,500 Speaker 2: addiction medicine doctor. Most of my career I've spent working 147 00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: on the sort of the front lines of infectious. 148 00:08:20,220 --> 00:08:22,580 Speaker 3: Diseases, HIV, Ebola, et cetera. 149 00:08:23,460 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: Um, but you can't really address those, those diseases, or 150 00:08:27,060 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: I even do a lot of primary care unless you're 151 00:08:29,540 --> 00:08:32,479 Speaker 2: really dealing with the underlying mental health issues as well. Right. 152 00:08:32,540 --> 00:08:33,420 Speaker 3: For a number of reasons. 153 00:08:34,260 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: Um, so why, uh, why it's so high in males, 154 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:39,780 Speaker 2: we can really kind of, uh, break it into four 155 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,140 Speaker 2: different buckets. Number one is the, the, the method, the 156 00:08:44,179 --> 00:08:47,569 Speaker 2: method in which males tend to choose, um, are just 157 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:52,610 Speaker 2: far more lethal. When it comes to suicide, we use 158 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:54,870 Speaker 2: the term completed suicide or attempted suicide. 159 00:08:55,410 --> 00:08:56,110 Speaker 3: When it comes. 160 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:02,060 Speaker 2: To suicide methods for males, they're often using firearms versus 161 00:09:02,460 --> 00:09:07,380 Speaker 2: women will often use other forms, could be medication overdose, etc. 162 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: And so being able to respond to that is more effective. 163 00:09:13,170 --> 00:09:15,809 Speaker 2: So that's number one. And so, you know, it's really, 164 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:18,010 Speaker 2: it's the speed in which it happens. 165 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:19,490 Speaker 3: You know, it happens very quickly. 166 00:09:20,290 --> 00:09:22,890 Speaker 2: Number two is really the sort of the invisible epidemic 167 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: that exists among males. You know, roughly over 60%, probably 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,700 Speaker 2: close to around two thirds of males who do die 169 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:36,260 Speaker 2: by suicide do not have a documented mental health past 170 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,990 Speaker 2: medical history. That's not saying that they don't have one. 171 00:09:39,070 --> 00:09:42,220 Speaker 2: They just don't have, they didn't seek help. And so, 172 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,780 Speaker 2: you know, why are the kind of getting the sub 173 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: bullets of number two? Why? Why don't they seek help? 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,020 Speaker 2: I mean, it starts in childhood, right? Like when men 175 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,770 Speaker 2: are sort of socialized at a very young age to 176 00:09:54,809 --> 00:09:58,190 Speaker 2: not really talk about their feelings, you know, that it's girly. 177 00:09:58,730 --> 00:10:00,780 Speaker 3: It's not it's not it's sort. of not manly. 178 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:04,260 Speaker 2: It's not masculine, you know, in different languages, like in 179 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: like Hispanic populations, machismo. So, so a lot of those 180 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:13,660 Speaker 2: early stage feelings that they should be just talking about expressing. And, 181 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: you know, there's a difference between sort of emotional component 182 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: and the mental health component. But more of a sort 183 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,260 Speaker 2: of suppression of the emotions will lead to a mental health, right? 184 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:24,250 Speaker 2: Like it's just the feelings need to get out. And 185 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,630 Speaker 2: if they're just bottled up for too long, it will 186 00:10:26,770 --> 00:10:30,030 Speaker 2: ultimately sort of become internalized. And there will be a 187 00:10:30,050 --> 00:10:32,849 Speaker 2: physiological effect as well, which then will lead to the 188 00:10:32,890 --> 00:10:37,130 Speaker 2: mental health component, which is naturally connected to our central 189 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:40,930 Speaker 2: nervous system. So a lot of those sort of, we 190 00:10:40,950 --> 00:10:44,650 Speaker 2: call them adverse childhood experiences or encounters, the boys are 191 00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: not able to sort of express them. 192 00:10:46,570 --> 00:10:50,250 Speaker 3: And then so they come out as sort of conduct behavior, right? 193 00:10:50,290 --> 00:10:52,540 Speaker 2: Like we label a lot more boys with sort of 194 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,500 Speaker 2: like having bad conduct or whatnot. But it's really the 195 00:10:56,540 --> 00:10:58,460 Speaker 2: fact that they're not able to kind of express, you know, 196 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,460 Speaker 2: these feelings or emotions. 197 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,219 Speaker 3: So it sort of all starts from that. 198 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 2: And then it starts to sort of aggregate, you know, 199 00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: as males get older through youth and adolescence. 200 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 3: This was more common. 201 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: Among baby boomers, Generation X, They weren't able to, again, 202 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,610 Speaker 2: continue to kind of express, you know, a lot of 203 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:20,630 Speaker 2: these emotions. And so it continues to build out. And 204 00:11:20,670 --> 00:11:22,929 Speaker 2: then they don't. So they and they and they also 205 00:11:22,990 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: don't know how to seek out the treatment for it. 206 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:28,250 Speaker 2: So many of these males, as evidenced by what I 207 00:11:28,270 --> 00:11:30,820 Speaker 2: just said, over 60 percent don't have a prior mental 208 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: health past medical history. It's because they've been socialized to 209 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: not talk about it. And then they don't know how 210 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,660 Speaker 2: to access it. Right. Because it's just not a part 211 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,500 Speaker 2: of their. It's not part of their scope. So that 212 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,750 Speaker 2: sort of gets worse. And then sort of the third 213 00:11:45,809 --> 00:11:50,850 Speaker 2: part is a lot of them will seek out substance 214 00:11:50,970 --> 00:11:54,410 Speaker 2: use as a result. Like that's the outlet, right? Alcoholism rates, 215 00:11:54,450 --> 00:11:57,150 Speaker 2: of course, being much higher among males. Well, they needed 216 00:11:57,170 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: to express that somehow couldn't go that sort of mental health, right? 217 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,300 Speaker 2: Couldn't go through therapeutic sort of modalities. So went to 218 00:12:03,420 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: alcohol or other drugs or substance uses as well. so, 219 00:12:08,620 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: so that's, that's a big one. Uh, you know, number 220 00:12:10,740 --> 00:12:12,820 Speaker 2: three is, is, um, kind of getting back to what 221 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,339 Speaker 2: I was saying in, in childhood is that sort of 222 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,510 Speaker 2: emotional illiteracy, you know, males just don't know how to 223 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:20,530 Speaker 2: talk about their feelings. 224 00:12:20,590 --> 00:12:22,750 Speaker 3: You know, they just, it's, and I'm generalizing, right? 225 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:25,969 Speaker 2: Like this is not all males, but, um, but, but, 226 00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:29,329 Speaker 2: but most, most males, you know, in the U S 227 00:12:29,450 --> 00:12:32,350 Speaker 2: and certainly in those other countries that I was describing over, 228 00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:34,990 Speaker 2: over a certain age, again, it's getting better with, with 229 00:12:35,070 --> 00:12:37,740 Speaker 2: sort of youth, um, They don't know how to express 230 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: those feelings. 231 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,339 Speaker 3: So it's sort of that illiteracy. 232 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:43,860 Speaker 2: And oftentimes the only people they can talk to are 233 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,510 Speaker 2: their partners, their spouses, often their wives. And then what 234 00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:50,370 Speaker 2: gets worse and part of the reason why we think 235 00:12:50,410 --> 00:12:54,210 Speaker 2: that the suicide rates get higher in older adults is 236 00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:57,350 Speaker 2: because if they do lose their spouse, if they are widowed, 237 00:12:57,910 --> 00:13:00,670 Speaker 2: you know, they lose everything. They lose that sort of outlet. 238 00:13:00,770 --> 00:13:02,710 Speaker 2: And so their ability to cope is really sort of 239 00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:07,350 Speaker 2: just implodes. And then finally, you know, is the kind 240 00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:11,989 Speaker 2: of acute situational crises. When we're looking at males, they're 241 00:13:12,070 --> 00:13:15,070 Speaker 2: often the breadwinners. And so when we're looking at kind 242 00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:18,570 Speaker 2: of socioeconomic sort of components, you know, famously, we look 243 00:13:18,610 --> 00:13:19,690 Speaker 2: back to the Great Depression. 244 00:13:20,270 --> 00:13:21,710 Speaker 3: You know, we saw all. 245 00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:24,450 Speaker 2: These images of these people that were men often that 246 00:13:24,490 --> 00:13:27,650 Speaker 2: were throwing themselves out of buildings or whatnot. Why? 247 00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:31,089 Speaker 3: They're the breadwinners, right? Their whole feeling of identity changes. 248 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: Of purpose in life is often sort of socialized again 249 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,870 Speaker 2: through that role as the breadwinner. And if they're not 250 00:13:39,950 --> 00:13:45,710 Speaker 2: able to produce or take care of their family, their identity. 251 00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:46,870 Speaker 3: Is significantly impacted. 252 00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:50,650 Speaker 2: And when you take all the other pieces into equation 253 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: with them not being able to reach out, not understanding 254 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,939 Speaker 2: how to, their emotional illiteracy, them not being able to 255 00:13:57,500 --> 00:14:00,579 Speaker 2: communicate effectively, it becomes sort of like a perfect storm 256 00:14:00,620 --> 00:14:04,750 Speaker 2: of conditions And then that leads, again, to lethality, to 257 00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:06,809 Speaker 2: the big problem in the United States in terms of 258 00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:09,630 Speaker 2: access to firearms, too. It's another sort of component. So 259 00:14:09,950 --> 00:14:12,610 Speaker 2: you take all that together, and that sort of gets 260 00:14:12,650 --> 00:14:14,230 Speaker 2: you to your final outcome. 261 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: That totally makes sense. And the tragic part, when you 262 00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: were talking about boys, this is a parenting show. When 263 00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:26,580 Speaker 1: they start to act out, what do we do? We 264 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,910 Speaker 1: don't get to the root of the problem. Instead, they 265 00:14:28,950 --> 00:14:32,820 Speaker 1: get disciplined. And so that's probably... The worst thing we 266 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: could do is– and we're not helping them to develop 267 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:40,450 Speaker 1: an emotional intelligence about how to communicate about their feelings. 268 00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:42,710 Speaker 1: I actually interviewed– one of my very first interviews on 269 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:45,470 Speaker 1: this show was with a young woman named Emma Benoit. 270 00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:47,410 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard of her. She is 271 00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:53,060 Speaker 1: one of the 1% of self-inflicted gunshot wound victims who survived. 272 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,860 Speaker 1: She survived an attempt. That doesn't happen very much. The 273 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: young man who was in our circle was shot. Part 274 00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:05,060 Speaker 1: of the 99% because you're absolutely right. That tends to 275 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,300 Speaker 1: be the weapon of choice. And there's rarely, if any, 276 00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: reversal of that. So then help us to understand what 277 00:15:14,020 --> 00:15:16,690 Speaker 1: do we need to be looking for? Let's talk first 278 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:20,110 Speaker 1: about the slow building crisis. I think that's, you said 279 00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:22,710 Speaker 1: it's a slow crisis before the breaking point. What should 280 00:15:22,770 --> 00:15:27,090 Speaker 1: we be looking for in our husbands, our brothers, our friends, 281 00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: our sons? I have one adult son and I have 282 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: one adolescent son. What do I need to be looking 283 00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:37,910 Speaker 1: at those first problems before someone would even think perhaps 284 00:15:37,950 --> 00:15:39,710 Speaker 1: that there's a problem here? What do I need to 285 00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:42,450 Speaker 1: be noting? How do I show up, like you said, 286 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:43,990 Speaker 1: for the men in my life right now? 287 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,180 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great, it's a great question. You know, there's, 288 00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:55,900 Speaker 2: we talk about all these problems, but we want to 289 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: get to the solutions, right? Like how do we, we actually, 290 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,180 Speaker 2: how do we notice these things and what do we 291 00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:02,300 Speaker 2: do about them when we do notice them? So in 292 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: terms of the signs, you know, often because again, males, 293 00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:10,850 Speaker 2: and I'm getting generalizing, but you know, often males, particularly 294 00:16:11,650 --> 00:16:13,570 Speaker 2: when I say older males, I'm saying kind of the 295 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:16,150 Speaker 2: Gen X and beyond, they're not often going to be 296 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:18,810 Speaker 2: expressing their feelings. They're not often going to be saying, Hey, 297 00:16:18,850 --> 00:16:21,410 Speaker 2: I feel sad or depressed, two very different things. 298 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,300 Speaker 3: So, so we have to look in a different way. The, the, the. 299 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,370 Speaker 2: Best sort of reference I would say is a change 300 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,970 Speaker 2: in behavior. So you're going to want to look for, 301 00:16:30,990 --> 00:16:33,550 Speaker 2: you know, of course the partners, good friends, et cetera, 302 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:38,430 Speaker 2: you know, your sons, brothers, et cetera, look for a change. You, 303 00:16:38,590 --> 00:16:40,790 Speaker 2: you know, these people, you love these people. You spend 304 00:16:40,810 --> 00:16:42,510 Speaker 2: a lot of time with these people. If you see 305 00:16:42,530 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: a change in behavior that, and want to look for 306 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: some sort of correlation in there, did they lose their job? 307 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: Was there a reduction in pay? Was there some sort of, 308 00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:53,950 Speaker 2: you know, external component that could be correlated with that? 309 00:16:54,430 --> 00:16:55,910 Speaker 2: Then you're definitely going to want to be tracking that. 310 00:16:56,590 --> 00:16:59,970 Speaker 2: So that's a big one. There are other ways that 311 00:17:00,050 --> 00:17:02,430 Speaker 2: we often see people who are not kind of actively 312 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: seeking care, they'll just sort of turn off, right? So 313 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,540 Speaker 2: you'll see like more of like a flat, we call 314 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: it affect. So, you know, that's kind of another sign 315 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:16,670 Speaker 2: of depression. I'm mostly talking depression. Mental health is a 316 00:17:16,690 --> 00:17:19,510 Speaker 2: sort of it's a kaleidoscope of a number of diagnoses. But, 317 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:21,729 Speaker 2: you know, when we look at suicidality, it's often sort 318 00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: of connected to depression. So so, yeah, having that flat affect, 319 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,620 Speaker 2: finding a loss of appetite, loss of interest in things 320 00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:34,300 Speaker 2: that they enjoy doing could be sports, could be intimacy, 321 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,700 Speaker 2: could be food. If there is a significant change in that, 322 00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 2: that would also be a sign as well. 323 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,460 Speaker 3: Also substance use, right? 324 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 2: If they, if there's an increase in that, particularly binge drinking, um, 325 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,890 Speaker 2: that could certainly be correlated with, with essentially a cry 326 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:52,890 Speaker 2: for help. And I'll also, also say too, I forgot 327 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:56,570 Speaker 2: to mention earlier, you know, another, another sort of contributing 328 00:17:56,630 --> 00:18:00,950 Speaker 2: factor to kind of, you know, males lack of engagement 329 00:18:00,990 --> 00:18:05,830 Speaker 2: in mental health care is, um, Are there social groups, right? Like, 330 00:18:06,290 --> 00:18:09,660 Speaker 2: you know, when you look at your typical male friend circle, 331 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,420 Speaker 2: like you got your drinking buddies, you got your golf buddies, 332 00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: you got your, you know, your basketball, your baseball, your 333 00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:18,350 Speaker 2: sports buddies. How many of these people are talking about 334 00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:21,010 Speaker 2: like their feelings or their emotions or their deep seated 335 00:18:21,050 --> 00:18:23,869 Speaker 2: sort of X, right? Like, it just doesn't really happen. 336 00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 3: And again, that's like. 337 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:25,659 Speaker 2: Well, it. 338 00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: Happens in the Hallmark films. That's not, I mean, seriously, 339 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,070 Speaker 1: every Hallmark film, like the guys are sitting around talking 340 00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:34,510 Speaker 1: about feelings and who they like. I'm like, this is, 341 00:18:34,869 --> 00:18:38,070 Speaker 1: it's obviously all written by women. Anyways, but I digress. 342 00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:42,010 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. They're not talking about any deep emotional stuff. 343 00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:45,790 Speaker 1: It's kind of surface level. So there may have some community, 344 00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:49,350 Speaker 1: but it's not community that is helping their emotional intelligence. 345 00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:52,330 Speaker 1: And all that stuff is staying bottled up down there. 346 00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:56,609 Speaker 1: It's not getting out and it's building up. Totally makes sense. 347 00:18:56,790 --> 00:19:01,180 Speaker 1: It totally makes sense. So let's move along then. Those 348 00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:03,620 Speaker 1: are some of the earlier signs that something is awry, 349 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:06,419 Speaker 1: something may not be quite right. But what are the 350 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,060 Speaker 1: signs that we need to be noting that, hey, this 351 00:19:09,140 --> 00:19:12,610 Speaker 1: is not just something a little off. This is getting serious. 352 00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:18,810 Speaker 1: This is getting acute. This could be life debilitating or life-threatening. 353 00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:22,909 Speaker 2: I think, again, getting back to the changes in behavior, 354 00:19:23,369 --> 00:19:28,810 Speaker 2: the substance use particularly, that's a real telltale sign. If 355 00:19:28,869 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: you are also looking at, you know, when we talk about, 356 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:37,340 Speaker 2: you know, addiction or making the distinction between substance use 357 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 2: and substance use disorder, when we define the term disorder, 358 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: we're often talking about some meaningful or some significant impact, 359 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: dysfunction to that person's life. So that's another sort of, 360 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: you know, sign. if that person, you know, quit their 361 00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 2: job or got fired, or there's serious changes in their 362 00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: behavior that really impacts the functionality of their, of their life, 363 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: then that those are, those are huge cries for help, 364 00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:07,300 Speaker 2: you know, and they're, you know, they will often kind 365 00:20:07,340 --> 00:20:10,090 Speaker 2: of brush it off. Now everything's fine. It was X, Y, 366 00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: but we need to look under the hood for that 367 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 2: because those people are often crying out for help. 368 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,220 Speaker 3: They just don't know how. 369 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,990 Speaker 1: How then? How do we do this? Because it's like 370 00:20:22,010 --> 00:20:26,580 Speaker 1: you said, my husband and my adult son really don't 371 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: like asking for help. They don't like when you're kind 372 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,180 Speaker 1: of trying to pry under the hood a little bit. 373 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: They don't even like asking for help with directions about 374 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: how to get somewhere. So how do I get as 375 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,970 Speaker 1: a woman who cares about these men in my life? 376 00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:42,030 Speaker 1: How do I get them to open up? How do 377 00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:43,230 Speaker 1: I get up under that hood? 378 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:44,689 Speaker 3: What do I need to do? 379 00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:49,790 Speaker 2: Well, I think, I think what's really important is to, um, 380 00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: I know it sounds, it sounds simple or reductive, but, 381 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,780 Speaker 2: but often giving people permission can be very much a, just, it, 382 00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: it just, it comes with such a sort of sigh 383 00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: of relief. You know, if, if more women or partners 384 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,710 Speaker 2: can talk to their, to their male partners about that, 385 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:10,530 Speaker 2: it's okay. You know, I understand that I'm seeing you 386 00:21:10,550 --> 00:21:14,170 Speaker 2: do X and just, just kind of, um, reflect what 387 00:21:14,190 --> 00:21:17,190 Speaker 2: you're seeing. You know, I'm seeing X happen. It's okay 388 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:19,909 Speaker 2: for you to, to do Y, right? Like giving them 389 00:21:19,930 --> 00:21:24,450 Speaker 2: that permission can be really, really impactful. Being, I wouldn't, 390 00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:27,169 Speaker 2: I'd be careful about being sort of confrontational because that 391 00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:30,189 Speaker 2: can kind of push them to the other side. But again, 392 00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:33,290 Speaker 2: not like just not beating around the bush, just being 393 00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:37,190 Speaker 2: open about, you know, what you are seeing, but being mindful, sorry, 394 00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:40,929 Speaker 2: not being mindful, being, just being compassionate about it. You 395 00:21:42,970 --> 00:21:46,330 Speaker 2: you know, that's, I'm, this is a gender sort of stereotype, 396 00:21:46,369 --> 00:21:48,050 Speaker 2: but it's a good one. Like, you know, women are 397 00:21:48,109 --> 00:21:52,130 Speaker 2: often correlated with compassion and, and that is so important for, 398 00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:54,090 Speaker 2: for males out there, you know, to know that they 399 00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:56,910 Speaker 2: have somebody that they could talk to and they may not, 400 00:21:56,930 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: they might not accept, but if you just keep, you gotta, 401 00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:03,940 Speaker 2: the persistence is so important, you know? Yeah. 402 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 3: I mean, those are, those are the, those are the 403 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:06,300 Speaker 3: big ones. 404 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: If, if it continues, if you are seeing significant, significant 405 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 2: changes in that are very sort of worrisome, some of which, 406 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: like I was describing before, you know, that's when those 407 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: sort of interventions are going to be really helpful. You know, 408 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,010 Speaker 2: getting people that that person really respects kind of into 409 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:26,590 Speaker 2: the picture if you feel as if you're going to 410 00:22:26,609 --> 00:22:28,610 Speaker 2: be sort of, you know, going up against a brick 411 00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:32,750 Speaker 2: wall could be very helpful as well. And then, you know, 412 00:22:32,790 --> 00:22:36,290 Speaker 2: potentially getting a licensed professional at some point. You do, 413 00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:40,030 Speaker 2: it's a, you have to be very tactful about how 414 00:22:40,090 --> 00:22:43,100 Speaker 2: you approach it, though. Like, again, if you just say, Hey, 415 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: I think you need some help. And here's the person, right? 416 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,270 Speaker 2: Like that's probably not going to work. Yeah. 417 00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:51,210 Speaker 1: That comes across as an insult. Absolutely. 418 00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:51,650 Speaker 2: Yeah. 419 00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:54,460 Speaker 1: You need some help. Not the way to go about it. 420 00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:56,610 Speaker 1: This is a parenting show though. So if you do 421 00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:58,609 Speaker 1: happen to have younger sons, like I do, I have 422 00:22:58,650 --> 00:23:01,530 Speaker 1: an 11 year old trying to develop that emotional intelligence. 423 00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:03,970 Speaker 1: I can remember talk when I, when I talked to 424 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:07,550 Speaker 1: Emma about her experience with her suicide attempt, she said, 425 00:23:07,630 --> 00:23:10,790 Speaker 1: you know, just having that conversation and, When they come 426 00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:13,340 Speaker 1: home from school, did you have any big feelings today? 427 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,969 Speaker 1: Talking about feelings with your son's It's pretty important. That 428 00:23:18,010 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: comes very naturally to girls. We get around and have 429 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: coffee and we talk about our feelings all day long 430 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,700 Speaker 1: and all night long. We could talk forever about feelings, feelings, feelings. 431 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: But boys also need some experience doing that. And you 432 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,100 Speaker 1: need to give them the green light that it's okay 433 00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:34,140 Speaker 1: to do that. Of course, the men in our life 434 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: may have longstanding tradition of not talking about those things. 435 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: So it might be a little bit harder. Let's then 436 00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:44,530 Speaker 1: talk in our few remaining moments here. If we know 437 00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:47,949 Speaker 1: there's a crisis, we know something's wrong. What are the 438 00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:51,290 Speaker 1: immediate steps that we need to take to try to 439 00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:54,010 Speaker 1: save that life? There are certain things we need to do, 440 00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:57,980 Speaker 1: I'm sure, if we have the sense that this is serious. 441 00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:01,660 Speaker 1: And I don't want to push this person away, but 442 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: I also don't want to go to a funeral. So 443 00:24:07,220 --> 00:24:16,220 Speaker 1: what do you do? Hey friends, it's Katherine here. If 444 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:19,340 Speaker 1: you're trying to be a godly parent in this wild 445 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,070 Speaker 1: and wacky world, you need all the help you can get. 446 00:24:22,590 --> 00:24:25,790 Speaker 1: And I've got you covered. When you subscribe to my website, 447 00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:29,630 Speaker 1: you'll get instant access to tons of free resources made 448 00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:33,410 Speaker 1: just for Christian parents. You'll get my prodigal bundle, which 449 00:24:33,490 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: is packed with every podcast, article, and scripture list I've 450 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,660 Speaker 1: created for parents walking away. That Tough Prodigal Road. You'll 451 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: also get my free e-book, Beyond the Lies, uncovering five 452 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: myths the culture spreads to mothers. Plus, powerful scripture lists 453 00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:51,210 Speaker 1: to pray over your kids and even scripture songs to 454 00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:54,530 Speaker 1: help your family hide God's word in your hearts without 455 00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:57,730 Speaker 1: even trying. And, of course, I'll keep you encouraged with 456 00:24:57,790 --> 00:25:02,250 Speaker 1: my weekly newsletter full of faith-filled pep talks and outlines 457 00:25:02,290 --> 00:25:04,790 Speaker 1: of what we're tackling each week on the show. So 458 00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:09,750 Speaker 1: don't miss out. Head over to katherineseegers.com. That's katherinseekers.com and 459 00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:13,689 Speaker 1: subscribe today because Christian parenting may be crazy, but you 460 00:25:13,820 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: don't have to do it alone. 461 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,060 Speaker 2: I will absolutely respond to that. But let me get 462 00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:21,780 Speaker 2: back to one of the points you just made. It 463 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: is not too late to kind of break the generational 464 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,460 Speaker 2: sort of cycles, right? There are a leopard can change 465 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: their spots. And, you know, the leopards are changing as 466 00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: a result of this generational change. 467 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:34,820 Speaker 3: Cultural changes. 468 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:35,260 Speaker 1: Yes. 469 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:39,020 Speaker 2: The good news is, you know, the millennials and particularly 470 00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:41,590 Speaker 2: Gen Z. 471 00:25:41,619 --> 00:25:42,770 Speaker 3: I had to think about that for a second. 472 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:45,210 Speaker 1: Gen Z. Gen Z and then Gen Alpha. 473 00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:46,970 Speaker 3: There's the Alpha Alpha. Yeah. 474 00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: Are are increasingly more mindful about their emotions and feelings, 475 00:25:52,619 --> 00:25:53,060 Speaker 2: et cetera. 476 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 3: So that's a good thing. 477 00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:57,379 Speaker 2: And so we could really use that in in a 478 00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:00,430 Speaker 2: sort of in a meaningful way. And yeah, I think 479 00:26:00,470 --> 00:26:02,810 Speaker 2: it's right to talk to our kids about, hey, it's 480 00:26:02,890 --> 00:26:04,730 Speaker 2: okay to talk about your feelings. It's okay to talk 481 00:26:04,750 --> 00:26:07,050 Speaker 2: about all of the stuff that we were just talking about, 482 00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:11,410 Speaker 2: all of those sort of generational challenges and trauma, frankly, 483 00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:13,710 Speaker 2: that we sort of bestowed upon our youth. 484 00:26:14,109 --> 00:26:15,270 Speaker 3: We can change that, right? 485 00:26:15,290 --> 00:26:17,550 Speaker 2: It is up to us as parents to be able 486 00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: to do that, particularly for our males and to train 487 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,060 Speaker 2: or socialize our females to be talking to their brothers 488 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,220 Speaker 2: or friends or whatnot about it. 489 00:26:29,050 --> 00:26:31,070 Speaker 3: So we totally can make changes now. 490 00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:33,550 Speaker 2: And I will say for the sort of, you know, 491 00:26:33,609 --> 00:26:36,129 Speaker 2: stubborn males out there, the way that I as a 492 00:26:36,170 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 2: doc and as a fairly, you know, I like to 493 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,540 Speaker 2: say that I'm a reasonably what I believe to be 494 00:26:44,619 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 2: described as a masculine sort of person. And so I 495 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,060 Speaker 2: try to kind of, you know, joke around with some 496 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 2: of my patients or whatnot to say, you know, it 497 00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:57,250 Speaker 2: actually could be very macho. to talk about your feelings 498 00:26:57,310 --> 00:27:01,609 Speaker 2: or to, I openly cry when there's a sad movie 499 00:27:01,630 --> 00:27:02,450 Speaker 2: or something like that. 500 00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:05,770 Speaker 3: And I'm very proud of it, right? Like I think I'm. 501 00:27:05,730 --> 00:27:09,090 Speaker 2: A CEO and I will, you know, I'll tear up 502 00:27:09,310 --> 00:27:12,250 Speaker 2: sometimes when there's something very sad that sort of took place. 503 00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:13,190 Speaker 3: And you know what? 504 00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:15,210 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people respect me as a result, 505 00:27:15,290 --> 00:27:17,790 Speaker 2: you know? So I think it's very macho. I blame 506 00:27:17,810 --> 00:27:21,030 Speaker 2: it on my Italian side. And so, you know, there's 507 00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:24,770 Speaker 2: something there as well. So I think the males out 508 00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:28,429 Speaker 2: there We need to get past all that nonsense and 509 00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:31,810 Speaker 2: we need to start to sort of socialize and influence 510 00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:35,170 Speaker 2: other males and especially our kids that it is absolutely 511 00:27:35,270 --> 00:27:41,380 Speaker 2: okay to talk about your feelings or emotions to respond 512 00:27:41,420 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: to the last part. So trying to get that licensed 513 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,500 Speaker 2: professional on board at some point, again, you have to 514 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:49,710 Speaker 2: be very tactful about it. 515 00:27:49,740 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 3: So it's complicated. 516 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 2: It's probably beyond the scope of this interview. But if 517 00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:58,740 Speaker 2: you are ever significantly, seriously concerned about a potential suicide, 518 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:02,659 Speaker 2: you have to call 988. And there would be a 519 00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: way to seek out immediate help. Of course, there's always 520 00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: the emergency room as well. Unfortunately, in our country, because 521 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,450 Speaker 2: of the lack of mental health and behavioral health services, 522 00:28:15,550 --> 00:28:18,630 Speaker 2: and particularly low-income communities, which is where I mostly work, 523 00:28:19,150 --> 00:28:23,250 Speaker 2: there is often people that don't know how to seek 524 00:28:23,270 --> 00:28:26,790 Speaker 2: care or where to seek care. So that's a serious challenge. 525 00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:29,580 Speaker 2: We're working on that, like our organization, Wellness Equity Alliance. 526 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,859 Speaker 2: We're standing up crisis walk-in centers. So it's low barrier entry. 527 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,260 Speaker 2: Anybody can come in irrespective of your ability to pay. 528 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,110 Speaker 2: There's also something called crisis stabilization units. So those are 529 00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:44,690 Speaker 2: kind of like, sort of like mental health urgent cares. 530 00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:49,290 Speaker 2: And they're more equipped than your kind of your typical 531 00:28:49,390 --> 00:28:52,250 Speaker 2: emergency room. A lot of emergency rooms, even though I'm 532 00:28:52,290 --> 00:28:54,610 Speaker 2: not telling people to not go there, a lot of 533 00:28:54,690 --> 00:28:58,790 Speaker 2: emergency rooms will not have a psychiatrist staffed. And so 534 00:28:58,990 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 2: it's pretty much ER docs who oftentimes, and it's not 535 00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: just emergency medicine, just in general, a lot of doctors 536 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,260 Speaker 2: don't get the training in mental health or psychiatry that 537 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: they should be getting. So it's not the ideal option, 538 00:29:12,380 --> 00:29:15,260 Speaker 2: but it is an option out there. But we do need, 539 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:18,030 Speaker 2: from a system standpoint, we need more crisis walk-in centers. 540 00:29:18,380 --> 00:29:21,820 Speaker 2: We need more crisis stabilization units. We need more prevention, right? 541 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: Like we need our primary care providers to be addressing these, 542 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,740 Speaker 2: asking the right questions and approaching this with cultural competency 543 00:29:29,790 --> 00:29:32,410 Speaker 2: as well, right? Because different males, I was talking a 544 00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:35,410 Speaker 2: little bit about other countries, different males from different cultures 545 00:29:35,450 --> 00:29:37,670 Speaker 2: will express their feelings in different ways. 546 00:29:38,030 --> 00:29:38,990 Speaker 3: What we often see in. 547 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 2: in sub-saharan africa in the middle east are people will 548 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: say i have a headache i have abdominal pain etc 549 00:29:46,370 --> 00:29:49,490 Speaker 2: why it's because they're internalizing all of that sort of 550 00:29:49,550 --> 00:29:53,950 Speaker 2: physiological stress and those pent-up emotions into literally their body 551 00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:57,110 Speaker 2: and there's very good evidence for this and so when 552 00:29:57,130 --> 00:30:00,220 Speaker 2: they are expressing There's actually something called the Refugee Health 553 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: Screener 15 that we will do if somebody is a 554 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: recent refugee or asylum seeker. We will ask them these questions, 555 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,540 Speaker 2: and they're very different from your typical mental health questions 556 00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:11,980 Speaker 2: that we do in the United States because it will 557 00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:15,490 Speaker 2: get to, again, the ways in which they somaticize their feelings. 558 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:20,550 Speaker 2: And somaticizing meaning taking ideas or concepts or stress from 559 00:30:20,590 --> 00:30:24,730 Speaker 2: the mind and somaticizing, soma meaning body, into a bodily response. 560 00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:25,910 Speaker 3: Hmm. 561 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:28,940 Speaker 1: Wow. There's a lot in that. Thank you for all 562 00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: of that advice. One thing I would add to that, definitely, 563 00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: if you think that there is an imminent risk, take 564 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: away lethal means, making sure that they do not have 565 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,620 Speaker 1: access to firearms. They do not have access to something 566 00:30:41,660 --> 00:30:44,990 Speaker 1: that they could OD on. That would certainly be a 567 00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:45,969 Speaker 1: big one. 568 00:30:46,050 --> 00:30:47,150 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 569 00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:49,710 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, given the risk that we just mentioned 570 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:54,450 Speaker 2: in terms of males, particularly, because firearms are so often correlated, Absolutely. 571 00:30:54,510 --> 00:30:55,850 Speaker 3: Taking that away. 572 00:30:56,030 --> 00:30:59,330 Speaker 2: It doesn't solve the problem, but it reduces the risk 573 00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:03,010 Speaker 2: of a more lethal impact significantly. 574 00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:03,250 Speaker 3: Yeah. 575 00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:03,950 Speaker 2: Yeah. 576 00:31:04,090 --> 00:31:06,850 Speaker 1: One thing that you touched on too, trauma. I don't 577 00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:10,010 Speaker 1: think we're good at dealing with trauma. I think of 578 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:14,820 Speaker 1: the particular situation that happened in our circle recently, and there's, 579 00:31:15,170 --> 00:31:20,060 Speaker 1: I'm sure, residual trauma there for those who were present there. 580 00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:20,830 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 581 00:31:21,050 --> 00:31:23,390 Speaker 1: Immediately after. So you, we need to deal with this. 582 00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:26,350 Speaker 1: We need to learn how to deal with trauma and 583 00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:30,210 Speaker 1: trauma was probably, I'm sure involved with the behind the 584 00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:33,490 Speaker 1: scenes as to why he made that choice. It always is. 585 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:35,380 Speaker 1: So dealing with that, but. 586 00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:37,450 Speaker 2: And there's off, I was just sorry to cut you off, 587 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: but I was just going to say there's generational trauma, right? 588 00:31:39,580 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 2: Which is, which is why we really need to, you know, 589 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:45,260 Speaker 2: we need to change. We need to, to, to break 590 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: these cycles because if not, we will just see more 591 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,020 Speaker 2: and more of the same. So if, something like this, 592 00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: if significant traumatic event took place like this, anybody that was, 593 00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:58,430 Speaker 2: that was close to that individual, there's no way around it. 594 00:31:58,460 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: That is a traumatic event and they need to, they 595 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: need to seek out some sort of counseling. 596 00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:03,810 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 597 00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. 598 00:32:05,550 --> 00:32:05,790 Speaker 2: Evans. 599 00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:09,190 Speaker 1: This has been so necessary, so helpful. Where would you 600 00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:12,650 Speaker 1: tell people to go and find out more information? Obviously 601 00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:14,970 Speaker 1: you said call 988. I want to emphasize that one 602 00:32:14,990 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: more time. That is the number you call if you, 603 00:32:16,990 --> 00:32:19,700 Speaker 1: you suspect that there's a problem. And one of the 604 00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:22,700 Speaker 1: men in your life or women, but that would be 605 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,170 Speaker 1: the number. But where would you turn our listeners to, 606 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:27,690 Speaker 1: to find out more about you and more resources that 607 00:32:27,710 --> 00:32:30,070 Speaker 1: could help them if they're on a journey with mental 608 00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:31,170 Speaker 1: health and the men in their life? 609 00:32:31,790 --> 00:32:32,370 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. 610 00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:36,290 Speaker 2: So, so in addition to, to 988, I mean, importantly, just, 611 00:32:36,350 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: you know, everybody should try to have a primary care 612 00:32:38,580 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: provider to ensure that they're able to, you know, a 613 00:32:41,260 --> 00:32:44,860 Speaker 2: lot of, you know, I, I, again, work a lot 614 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:47,430 Speaker 2: with primary care. you know, and we really try to 615 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: train our primary care providers. It doesn't always happen, but 616 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 2: to manage mild and moderate mental health conditions, which is 617 00:32:53,140 --> 00:32:58,260 Speaker 2: often depression. So your general PCP should be able to 618 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,090 Speaker 2: at least ask the right questions and connect people to help. 619 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,070 Speaker 2: So having a PCP is key. So, you know, really 620 00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:08,989 Speaker 2: encourage people to engage with their primary care provider. It's 621 00:33:09,050 --> 00:33:12,570 Speaker 2: not just about, you know, checking your cholesterol and, you know, 622 00:33:12,850 --> 00:33:13,450 Speaker 2: your blood pressure. 623 00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:15,050 Speaker 3: It's about It's about your mental health. 624 00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:18,050 Speaker 2: So check, check in with the PCP and you know, 625 00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:20,270 Speaker 2: there's a lot of other opportunities to, to engage with 626 00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:27,850 Speaker 2: mental health counseling. They could, they could check out our website, wellnessequityalliance.com. My, 627 00:33:28,030 --> 00:33:32,209 Speaker 2: my website is drtylerevansmd.com. So feel free to reach out 628 00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:35,010 Speaker 2: to me. My book, Pandemics, Poverty and Politics could be 629 00:33:35,090 --> 00:33:38,209 Speaker 2: found at, it's published by Johns Hopkins University Press and 630 00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:41,420 Speaker 2: also can be found at Amazon or Barnes and Noble 631 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,670 Speaker 2: or There's a number of phone numbers and websites out there. 632 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:49,330 Speaker 2: There's psychiatry.org that folks can check out. There are a 633 00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:52,890 Speaker 2: number of resources out there. The problem, again, is, you know, 634 00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:58,140 Speaker 2: there are challenges in terms of sort of access, including websites, right? 635 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,660 Speaker 2: There's something that we talk about digital literacy. Do people 636 00:34:01,740 --> 00:34:03,900 Speaker 2: have even access to getting into websites? 637 00:34:04,660 --> 00:34:06,790 Speaker 1: Yes. Well, thank you so much. I know you're very busy. 638 00:34:06,810 --> 00:34:09,109 Speaker 1: I appreciate you stopping by to help us deal with 639 00:34:09,130 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: this really Important, vitally important topic. I appreciate your time. 640 00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:16,259 Speaker 3: Thanks. Thanks again, Catherine. And again, I'm sorry for your loss. 641 00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:17,180 Speaker 1: Thank you. 642 00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 3: God bless. 643 00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 2: Okay. 644 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 1: So I want to give you a list of things 645 00:34:21,820 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: that you can do, five things that you can do 646 00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:27,770 Speaker 1: if you're worried about the mental health of your sons, 647 00:34:27,810 --> 00:34:32,410 Speaker 1: your brothers, your husband, your friends. And obviously this list 648 00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:35,009 Speaker 1: applies to the women in our lives, the girls, the 649 00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:38,009 Speaker 1: daughters as well. But this is what we need to 650 00:34:38,050 --> 00:34:41,130 Speaker 1: do if we're worried about someone and their struggle with 651 00:34:41,170 --> 00:34:46,169 Speaker 1: mental health. Number one, ask. Do not avoid questions because 652 00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:49,629 Speaker 1: you're afraid of making things worse. And like we talked 653 00:34:49,670 --> 00:34:52,690 Speaker 1: about in this episode, try to develop the emotional intelligence, 654 00:34:52,770 --> 00:34:56,170 Speaker 1: particularly of the men around you. Us women, we can 655 00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: talk about our feelings all day long, but the men 656 00:34:59,410 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: are not quite used to that. So let's get the 657 00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:04,180 Speaker 1: men in our lives used to talking about their feelings 658 00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:09,860 Speaker 1: by asking questions. Number two, listen, don't immediately lecture or 659 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: correct or minimize what they're going through just because maybe 660 00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:15,500 Speaker 1: it's not a concern you would have. Make sure you're 661 00:35:15,540 --> 00:35:20,930 Speaker 1: not minimizing it, particularly this drive that Dr. Evans mentioned 662 00:35:21,390 --> 00:35:24,350 Speaker 1: of men needing to be providers. If they are in 663 00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:29,150 Speaker 1: any way threatened in that area, their entire identity is 664 00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:32,850 Speaker 1: threatened and And while you may not feel that same 665 00:35:33,070 --> 00:35:37,250 Speaker 1: compulsion or that same drive that men, I think, innately, 666 00:35:37,390 --> 00:35:41,950 Speaker 1: naturally feel, I think that's a God-given feeling, we need 667 00:35:41,969 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: to be able to support them in that area. So 668 00:35:44,420 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: listen to what they're going through. Number three, stay connected. 669 00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: Do not leave someone alone during an acute crisis. Number four, 670 00:35:56,900 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: reduce access. Create some distance from firearms, medications, or other 671 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:09,010 Speaker 1: lethal means. And number five, get help. Call 988. That 672 00:36:09,070 --> 00:36:10,890 Speaker 1: is what that number is there for. They will help 673 00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:14,549 Speaker 1: direct you. Always talk to your primary care physician, but 674 00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:18,350 Speaker 1: also consider finding a mental health professional. You know, there 675 00:36:18,370 --> 00:36:21,170 Speaker 1: are a lot of Christian counselors out there that could 676 00:36:21,250 --> 00:36:24,370 Speaker 1: help you as well. And I'm going to add number six. Yeah, 677 00:36:24,430 --> 00:36:26,900 Speaker 1: I just thought of this one. I don't know how 678 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,140 Speaker 1: I could forget this, but always pray, pray, pray. I 679 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: actually have a list of scriptures on my website to 680 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: pray over anyone who is struggling with their mental health. 681 00:36:36,340 --> 00:36:39,140 Speaker 1: This is part of my story. It's part of my history. 682 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,299 Speaker 1: These verses have really helped me in my life and 683 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,910 Speaker 1: my journey with depression and anxiety, which God has done 684 00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:49,109 Speaker 1: a lot of healing in my life. And speaking of that, 685 00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:52,549 Speaker 1: this is actually where we're going to go next week. 686 00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: As I was preparing for this interview... with Dr. Evans, 687 00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:58,980 Speaker 1: I actually went back and I listened to a conversation 688 00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:02,210 Speaker 1: I had several years ago with Emma Benoit. I mentioned 689 00:37:02,270 --> 00:37:06,690 Speaker 1: her in our conversation. She is a rare 1% survivor 690 00:37:06,850 --> 00:37:11,450 Speaker 1: of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest. And you guys, 691 00:37:12,010 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: Emma's story is riveting. I actually conducted that interview. And 692 00:37:17,219 --> 00:37:19,900 Speaker 1: as I was listening to it again, I was sitting 693 00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:22,739 Speaker 1: on the edge of my seat. And now Emma Benoit, 694 00:37:23,330 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: Just for a little context, she was a high school senior. 695 00:37:25,860 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: She was a cheerleader. She was a model. She is 696 00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: the last person you would have ever expected to attempt 697 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,859 Speaker 1: to take her own life. So next week, I'm going 698 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,220 Speaker 1: to bring that conversation back and you will hear firsthand 699 00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: what Emma was experiencing, what led her to that point, 700 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,250 Speaker 1: the voices that were going through her head and what 701 00:37:47,310 --> 00:37:51,650 Speaker 1: happened on that fateful day. and how she has recovered. 702 00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:55,410 Speaker 1: She's doing really well right now. In that interview also, 703 00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:59,930 Speaker 1: I interviewed another woman, Jennifer Ehlers, who is a counselor 704 00:38:00,110 --> 00:38:04,140 Speaker 1: with the American Association of Christian Counselors. So you're going 705 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,460 Speaker 1: to hear this story from both a personal and a 706 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: spiritual perspective because Jennifer and I talked about what is 707 00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: going on in the spiritual realm when someone is struggling 708 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,180 Speaker 1: with suicidal thoughts and the dark spiritual forces that can 709 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,050 Speaker 1: be at work in a battle for someone's life. There's 710 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,489 Speaker 1: physical aspects to that journey, but there are also spiritual ones. 711 00:38:28,690 --> 00:38:33,609 Speaker 1: And as parents, we need to understand that dimension as well. 712 00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:36,450 Speaker 1: So next week, I want you to hear Emma's story, 713 00:38:36,489 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: not just because she survived, but because she can give 714 00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 1: us a glimpse into what suicidal thinking can actually feel 715 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,980 Speaker 1: like from the inside when a person is experiencing it. 716 00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:52,500 Speaker 1: and they see no other way out. I hope you 717 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: will join me for that conversation. I hope you will 718 00:38:55,060 --> 00:38:58,219 Speaker 1: share it with your kids, with your teenage kids, and 719 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 1: maybe even a little bit younger. One of the things 720 00:39:00,340 --> 00:39:02,620 Speaker 1: that Jennifer Ehlers mentioned to me is that there has 721 00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:09,590 Speaker 1: been an explosion in adolescent suicides. That's suicides completed, tragically 722 00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:13,830 Speaker 1: completed suicides in children ages 6 to 12. It is 723 00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:16,910 Speaker 1: truly tragic. But next week, we're going to shine some 724 00:39:16,969 --> 00:39:20,180 Speaker 1: light on those issues. And we're going to bring some 725 00:39:20,219 --> 00:39:24,460 Speaker 1: healing and some health and some hope. And as always, remember, 726 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,300 Speaker 1: God gave you your kids, your specific kids, for a reason. 727 00:39:30,060 --> 00:39:33,630 Speaker 1: That's because you hold the key to unlocking who God 728 00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:46,070 Speaker 1: created them to be. We'll see you next time. Christian 729 00:39:46,110 --> 00:39:48,810 Speaker 1: Parent Crazy World is a production of Life. 730 00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:49,990 Speaker 3: Audio and Salem Media. 731 00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard today, please take a 732 00:39:52,620 --> 00:39:55,580 Speaker 2: second to rate and review this podcast in your favorite 733 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: podcast app so. 734 00:39:56,940 --> 00:39:59,900 Speaker 1: That more listeners like you can find the show. For 735 00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:03,900 Speaker 1: more faith-filled, inspirational podcasts, visit us at lifeaudio.com.