1 00:00:08,165 --> 00:00:09,145 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:11,285 --> 00:00:13,645 Speaker 2: Our faith is rooted in the Middle East. 3 00:00:14,985 --> 00:00:16,364 Speaker 1: Jesus was Jewish. 4 00:00:16,625 --> 00:00:20,805 Speaker 2: He didn't grow up in Nebraska. Everyone who wrote the Bible, 5 00:00:20,865 --> 00:00:23,724 Speaker 2: with the exception of maybe one or two, depends on 6 00:00:23,745 --> 00:00:25,724 Speaker 2: who you ask, was Jewish. 7 00:00:31,435 --> 00:00:35,375 Speaker 1: Well, I'm here with my friend, Johnny Moore. Johnny, welcome. 8 00:00:35,395 --> 00:00:38,425 Speaker 1: This is the first time to have you on the podcast. 9 00:00:39,845 --> 00:00:42,665 Speaker 1: Someone asked me the other day, what does Johnny do? 10 00:00:42,885 --> 00:00:46,665 Speaker 1: It's like, what does Johnny not do? You've been involved 11 00:00:46,725 --> 00:00:50,135 Speaker 1: in so many amazing things over the years since I've 12 00:00:50,144 --> 00:00:53,495 Speaker 1: known you, and you've done them all so well. But 13 00:00:53,575 --> 00:00:56,595 Speaker 1: for someone that has never heard of Johnny Moore, tell 14 00:00:56,655 --> 00:00:59,435 Speaker 1: us who you are and what you do. 15 00:00:59,975 --> 00:01:02,795 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I'm so happy to be here. 16 00:01:03,015 --> 00:01:07,895 Speaker 2: I have been so ministered to over so many years 17 00:01:07,975 --> 00:01:11,815 Speaker 2: by you, by your teaching, by your films, by your books, 18 00:01:11,975 --> 00:01:14,315 Speaker 2: by your friendship. And so it's, it's, it's amazing to 19 00:01:14,355 --> 00:01:16,955 Speaker 2: be here. Um, I have done a lot of random 20 00:01:16,995 --> 00:01:21,054 Speaker 2: stuff and, but there is like a thread that there 21 00:01:21,075 --> 00:01:22,755 Speaker 2: are a couple of threads that run through it. And, 22 00:01:22,915 --> 00:01:26,985 Speaker 2: and one of them is that I just fundamentally believe 23 00:01:27,225 --> 00:01:30,345 Speaker 2: that you don't actually care about something unless you do 24 00:01:30,385 --> 00:01:30,994 Speaker 2: something about it. 25 00:01:31,125 --> 00:01:31,265 Speaker 1: Hmm. 26 00:01:32,084 --> 00:01:35,975 Speaker 2: And so that has taken me through these circuitous paths. 27 00:01:36,015 --> 00:01:38,215 Speaker 2: It's not enough to care about the persecuted church if 28 00:01:38,235 --> 00:01:39,695 Speaker 2: you're not going to do something about it. It's not 29 00:01:39,955 --> 00:01:41,515 Speaker 2: enough to care about the Middle East if you're not 30 00:01:41,535 --> 00:01:44,395 Speaker 2: going to do something about it, whether it's education or 31 00:01:44,435 --> 00:01:45,675 Speaker 2: Hollywood or business. 32 00:01:45,694 --> 00:01:48,945 Speaker 1: Were you always this principled as a little kid? Were 33 00:01:48,965 --> 00:01:51,105 Speaker 1: you this way, or is this something that came later? 34 00:01:51,125 --> 00:01:54,265 Speaker 1: Because I know that you went to a Liberty University, 35 00:01:54,885 --> 00:01:58,625 Speaker 1: and Jerry Falwell Sr., and you developed a friendship, and 36 00:01:58,665 --> 00:02:00,685 Speaker 1: he took an interest in you, and you were already 37 00:02:01,125 --> 00:02:03,425 Speaker 1: in a position of leadership at a very young age. 38 00:02:03,445 --> 00:02:05,705 Speaker 1: Does this go way back to your childhood? 39 00:02:06,865 --> 00:02:11,015 Speaker 2: I've always been a doer, but I'm also one of 40 00:02:11,035 --> 00:02:13,315 Speaker 2: the most unlikely people to be sitting in this chair. 41 00:02:14,295 --> 00:02:16,795 Speaker 2: I grew up in the deep south in small towns. 42 00:02:17,875 --> 00:02:21,615 Speaker 2: My parents went through an unbelievably traumatic divorce when I 43 00:02:21,635 --> 00:02:25,835 Speaker 2: was a kid. We moved over 20 I think it 44 00:02:25,855 --> 00:02:29,095 Speaker 2: was 12. No, it was almost like 20 times before 45 00:02:29,115 --> 00:02:31,315 Speaker 2: I was 12 years old. Like lots of different houses, 46 00:02:31,975 --> 00:02:33,015 Speaker 2: always on the move. 47 00:02:33,855 --> 00:02:35,555 Speaker 1: Were you with one of your parents only? 48 00:02:35,575 --> 00:02:39,535 Speaker 2: I eventually ended up with my mom. And then every 49 00:02:39,575 --> 00:02:41,275 Speaker 2: other weekend I would see my dad. 50 00:02:41,295 --> 00:02:43,555 Speaker 1: So I'm already seeing a pattern because it reminds me 51 00:02:43,605 --> 00:02:47,285 Speaker 1: of my life where I was with my mother and 52 00:02:47,325 --> 00:02:49,065 Speaker 1: I had to grow up fast. I had to learn 53 00:02:49,085 --> 00:02:51,605 Speaker 1: to fend for myself. And in my case, I had 54 00:02:51,625 --> 00:02:54,165 Speaker 1: to help take care of my mother. So you develop 55 00:02:54,445 --> 00:02:58,945 Speaker 1: this resourcefulness as probably a defense mechanism and as a 56 00:02:59,025 --> 00:03:00,465 Speaker 1: survival mechanism. 57 00:03:00,505 --> 00:03:03,945 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think very, very much so. That's also my story. 58 00:03:04,065 --> 00:03:05,765 Speaker 2: And then I had these amazing people in my life 59 00:03:05,785 --> 00:03:09,075 Speaker 2: that helped me though. So like, you know, right after 60 00:03:09,105 --> 00:03:12,115 Speaker 2: the divorce, we were in the local mall in our town. 61 00:03:12,255 --> 00:03:14,995 Speaker 2: And funny enough, there was this person in the mall 62 00:03:15,015 --> 00:03:17,735 Speaker 2: that every weekend he made balloon animals and he sold 63 00:03:17,775 --> 00:03:19,435 Speaker 2: them for a dollar like to kids in the mall. 64 00:03:20,025 --> 00:03:21,845 Speaker 2: And I went up to the guy and said, well, 65 00:03:21,885 --> 00:03:22,945 Speaker 2: you teach me how to do that. 66 00:03:23,165 --> 00:03:25,485 Speaker 1: Wow. I should have brought some balloons in. Can you 67 00:03:25,505 --> 00:03:26,015 Speaker 1: still do it? 68 00:03:26,025 --> 00:03:29,465 Speaker 2: I could probably still make some dog or something. But 69 00:03:29,505 --> 00:03:32,805 Speaker 2: this guy, you know, he could have just shooed me off. 70 00:03:32,825 --> 00:03:33,045 Speaker 1: Yeah. 71 00:03:33,635 --> 00:03:36,515 Speaker 2: But he didn't. And he said, yeah, why don't you 72 00:03:36,575 --> 00:03:40,615 Speaker 2: come back next Saturday and, you know, spend a half 73 00:03:40,635 --> 00:03:41,735 Speaker 2: hour or so and I'll teach you. 74 00:03:42,215 --> 00:03:44,155 Speaker 1: And you were in your 20s when this happened? No, no. 75 00:03:44,155 --> 00:03:44,815 Speaker 2: I'm like 12, 13 years old. 76 00:03:44,855 --> 00:03:45,365 Speaker 1: You're a little kid. 77 00:03:45,395 --> 00:03:52,225 Speaker 2: I'm a kid. And this person basically taught me how 78 00:03:52,265 --> 00:03:55,665 Speaker 2: to be a business person. And he taught me how 79 00:03:55,685 --> 00:03:57,605 Speaker 2: to make balloons. And he told me every balloon that 80 00:03:58,185 --> 00:04:02,365 Speaker 2: I sold, I could keep the money, but I had 81 00:04:02,405 --> 00:04:05,985 Speaker 2: to do something. He said, you have to take a sock. 82 00:04:07,245 --> 00:04:10,835 Speaker 2: And at home, you have to put $ 1 for every 83 00:04:10,835 --> 00:04:14,475 Speaker 2: $ 10 in that sock. And then at the end of 84 00:04:14,515 --> 00:04:16,854 Speaker 2: the year, you give that money to your church. That's like, 85 00:04:17,035 --> 00:04:19,385 Speaker 2: that's your, that's, what you get back to God. And 86 00:04:19,404 --> 00:04:21,685 Speaker 2: then he took me to like the local bank account 87 00:04:21,725 --> 00:04:24,985 Speaker 2: and he helped me open a bank account. And, you know, 88 00:04:25,225 --> 00:04:26,685 Speaker 2: and there were a lot of people in my life 89 00:04:27,025 --> 00:04:31,775 Speaker 2: like that. But it's like I had, you know. 90 00:04:31,795 --> 00:04:33,015 Speaker 1: So this man was a Christian. 91 00:04:33,195 --> 00:04:33,775 Speaker 2: He was a Christian. 92 00:04:33,795 --> 00:04:36,015 Speaker 1: Now, had you heard the gospel at this point of 93 00:04:36,055 --> 00:04:36,515 Speaker 1: your life? 94 00:04:36,715 --> 00:04:39,595 Speaker 2: I had. And, you know, I grew up in church, like, 95 00:04:40,125 --> 00:04:42,125 Speaker 2: You know, I'm a Baptist in the South. Like, we 96 00:04:42,185 --> 00:04:44,525 Speaker 2: were in church three times a week, every time the 97 00:04:44,545 --> 00:04:45,065 Speaker 2: doors were open. 98 00:04:45,225 --> 00:04:47,935 Speaker 1: Were there snakes handed around in your– No. 99 00:04:47,945 --> 00:04:50,175 Speaker 2: But people don't know this about Baptists in the mountains 100 00:04:50,195 --> 00:04:52,654 Speaker 2: in North Carolina. They are charismatics. 101 00:04:52,775 --> 00:04:53,055 Speaker 1: Oh, wow. 102 00:04:53,095 --> 00:04:56,275 Speaker 2: They're like– Oh, interesting.– like, women would, like, have a fit, 103 00:04:56,335 --> 00:04:58,654 Speaker 2: and they'd start running around the church and. 104 00:04:58,955 --> 00:04:59,655 Speaker 1: All these things. 105 00:05:00,315 --> 00:05:02,975 Speaker 2: But, no, I grew up in church, and that actually 106 00:05:03,015 --> 00:05:05,775 Speaker 2: created kind of a crisis in my life because we 107 00:05:05,795 --> 00:05:08,725 Speaker 2: were in church every time the doors were open. Yeah. 108 00:05:09,275 --> 00:05:14,435 Speaker 2: And yet, you know, the church wasn't, you know, able 109 00:05:14,475 --> 00:05:17,035 Speaker 2: to hold my, as a little kid's mind, like wasn't 110 00:05:17,135 --> 00:05:20,815 Speaker 2: able to hold my parents' marriage together. And I think 111 00:05:20,835 --> 00:05:23,055 Speaker 2: people go in different paths in a situation like that. 112 00:05:23,155 --> 00:05:26,875 Speaker 2: But my church had done this like whole Bible study 113 00:05:26,915 --> 00:05:30,425 Speaker 2: based upon like Josh McDowell's curriculum. And I was like 114 00:05:30,435 --> 00:05:34,044 Speaker 2: this curious kid. And instead of running away from the church, 115 00:05:34,245 --> 00:05:37,635 Speaker 2: I ran into finding answers to my questions and And 116 00:05:37,675 --> 00:05:39,675 Speaker 2: about six months before my parents' divorce is when I 117 00:05:39,715 --> 00:05:42,875 Speaker 2: really got saved. And I started, you know, about a 118 00:05:42,895 --> 00:05:44,935 Speaker 2: year before they divorced and about six months before, I 119 00:05:44,955 --> 00:05:47,145 Speaker 2: started reading the Bible every night from 9 to 9.30 120 00:05:47,135 --> 00:05:49,285 Speaker 2: every night. I would like read the Bible, write what 121 00:05:49,305 --> 00:05:51,245 Speaker 2: I learned. And I really think God intervened. 122 00:05:51,265 --> 00:05:52,365 Speaker 1: How old were you at this point? 123 00:05:52,385 --> 00:05:54,345 Speaker 2: This is all when I was like 11, 12, 13 124 00:05:54,345 --> 00:05:55,885 Speaker 2: years old. Yeah. 125 00:05:55,905 --> 00:05:58,565 Speaker 1: This is all preparing you. You know, everything in life 126 00:05:58,635 --> 00:06:02,355 Speaker 1: is preparation. And we go through things that don't make sense. 127 00:06:02,925 --> 00:06:05,065 Speaker 1: but later we look back in them and even though 128 00:06:05,085 --> 00:06:07,125 Speaker 1: they may have been bad things, I mean, having parents 129 00:06:07,165 --> 00:06:10,425 Speaker 1: divorce is a bad thing, but like Joseph said, you 130 00:06:10,475 --> 00:06:12,365 Speaker 1: meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. 131 00:06:12,415 --> 00:06:14,935 Speaker 1: It helped make you into the man that you are. 132 00:06:14,955 --> 00:06:17,795 Speaker 2: But you do grow up, you do grow up fast. And, and, 133 00:06:18,015 --> 00:06:21,055 Speaker 2: you know, and I, in hindsight, like I, you know, my, my, 134 00:06:21,215 --> 00:06:23,395 Speaker 2: my parents were doing their best in a very, very difficult, 135 00:06:23,515 --> 00:06:27,155 Speaker 2: difficult situation. But, um, but that's what led me eventually 136 00:06:27,195 --> 00:06:32,464 Speaker 2: to Liberty. So, uh, Liberty, um, sent uh scholarships in 137 00:06:32,485 --> 00:06:36,275 Speaker 2: the mail to people all over america to um if 138 00:06:36,295 --> 00:06:38,055 Speaker 2: you want to move to lynchburg virginia and go to 139 00:06:38,095 --> 00:06:41,715 Speaker 2: bible school and my mom received one of those scholarships 140 00:06:41,755 --> 00:06:41,955 Speaker 2: in the. 141 00:06:41,935 --> 00:06:44,555 Speaker 1: Mail and were you a good student was i good 142 00:06:44,575 --> 00:06:45,095 Speaker 1: student yeah. 143 00:06:45,015 --> 00:06:46,495 Speaker 2: I you know i was i was the type of 144 00:06:46,515 --> 00:06:50,075 Speaker 2: student that um didn't apply myself you know so i 145 00:06:50,115 --> 00:06:53,355 Speaker 2: was i you know the famous example is like in 146 00:06:53,375 --> 00:06:55,415 Speaker 2: my in my own life is uh i was in 147 00:06:55,455 --> 00:06:57,355 Speaker 2: like this later on i was in like this ap 148 00:06:57,455 --> 00:06:59,615 Speaker 2: english class and i had like a d in the 149 00:06:59,655 --> 00:07:02,165 Speaker 2: class And then I went and took the exam and 150 00:07:02,185 --> 00:07:03,665 Speaker 2: I got like the highest grades and I. 151 00:07:03,605 --> 00:07:06,585 Speaker 1: Got college credit. You didn't like the structure necessarily. I 152 00:07:06,625 --> 00:07:09,385 Speaker 1: was very bored. But when you found what you're passionate about, 153 00:07:09,425 --> 00:07:11,985 Speaker 1: then you become a quick study and learn about it. 154 00:07:12,115 --> 00:07:14,235 Speaker 2: And I've always been all in. So if there's something 155 00:07:14,275 --> 00:07:18,095 Speaker 2: I'm focused on that I care about, I just can't help, but, 156 00:07:18,255 --> 00:07:19,445 Speaker 2: but lean in, lean into it. 157 00:07:19,535 --> 00:07:22,055 Speaker 1: Was Jerry Falbo a bit of a father figure to 158 00:07:22,115 --> 00:07:23,395 Speaker 1: you when you met him? Yeah. 159 00:07:23,435 --> 00:07:25,535 Speaker 2: I mean, he, he transformed my life. So as I 160 00:07:25,555 --> 00:07:27,835 Speaker 2: was about to say, my, my, my mom went to 161 00:07:27,855 --> 00:07:30,495 Speaker 2: the mailbox one day we were in Florence, South Carolina. 162 00:07:30,635 --> 00:07:33,215 Speaker 2: We had reached the end of our rope and she 163 00:07:33,235 --> 00:07:35,695 Speaker 2: had the scholarship if she wanted to attend Liberty. And 164 00:07:35,775 --> 00:07:40,375 Speaker 2: so as an act of faith, she like got a 165 00:07:40,555 --> 00:07:43,205 Speaker 2: U-Haul the day they cut our power off. We moved 166 00:07:43,225 --> 00:07:46,045 Speaker 2: to Lynchburg, Virginia and we showed up in Lynchburg, Virginia, 167 00:07:46,125 --> 00:07:49,205 Speaker 2: just showed up on campus. No plan. They let us 168 00:07:49,285 --> 00:07:51,265 Speaker 2: live in the dorms till we could figure it out 169 00:07:51,445 --> 00:07:53,365 Speaker 2: that summer. Even your mother, even my mom. 170 00:07:53,485 --> 00:07:53,745 Speaker 1: Wow. 171 00:07:54,265 --> 00:07:57,095 Speaker 2: And, um, She was never able to go to the 172 00:07:57,135 --> 00:07:59,255 Speaker 2: Bible school because she had to work to take care 173 00:07:59,295 --> 00:08:02,655 Speaker 2: of us. But that was like God's hook to get 174 00:08:02,695 --> 00:08:07,165 Speaker 2: us to Virginia and to get me into Liberty. And 175 00:08:07,525 --> 00:08:10,325 Speaker 2: then just amazing things happened. Someone anonymously scholarship my sister 176 00:08:10,345 --> 00:08:12,325 Speaker 2: and I to go to the private school there. I 177 00:08:12,365 --> 00:08:15,285 Speaker 2: eventually sort of gave in to the Lord and I 178 00:08:15,325 --> 00:08:18,425 Speaker 2: started preaching sermons as like a 15, 16-year-old kid. 179 00:08:19,945 --> 00:08:21,625 Speaker 1: Did you think at one point, maybe I'll be a 180 00:08:21,675 --> 00:08:22,475 Speaker 1: pastor one day? 181 00:08:22,655 --> 00:08:25,885 Speaker 2: I felt called to ministry. Yeah. But I was a 182 00:08:25,885 --> 00:08:26,675 Speaker 2: little bitter about it. 183 00:08:29,005 --> 00:08:30,245 Speaker 1: Why is that? 184 00:08:30,285 --> 00:08:31,865 Speaker 2: I think because of what I experienced as a kid. 185 00:08:32,975 --> 00:08:34,915 Speaker 2: In fact, I remember in our public school taking a 186 00:08:34,955 --> 00:08:36,874 Speaker 2: speech class, and I kind of had a bad attitude 187 00:08:36,895 --> 00:08:38,135 Speaker 2: about it. I was like, I'm going to take this 188 00:08:38,175 --> 00:08:40,295 Speaker 2: speech class because I guess I'm going to have to 189 00:08:40,315 --> 00:08:43,944 Speaker 2: learn how to speak if I'm going to be in ministry. 190 00:08:45,285 --> 00:08:47,224 Speaker 2: But even that was like the beginning of sort of 191 00:08:47,305 --> 00:08:49,345 Speaker 2: the diverse plan that God had for my life because 192 00:08:49,805 --> 00:08:52,605 Speaker 2: I took that speech class. The speech teacher recruited me 193 00:08:52,645 --> 00:08:56,125 Speaker 2: to her forensics team. you know, I got last place 194 00:08:56,165 --> 00:08:58,225 Speaker 2: in the first competition. She took me under her wing. 195 00:08:58,245 --> 00:09:02,985 Speaker 2: I ended up the champion forensic speaker in Virginia. And 196 00:09:03,065 --> 00:09:06,865 Speaker 2: on one weekend at some random conference in Virginia, a judge, 197 00:09:07,085 --> 00:09:10,985 Speaker 2: when you do forensic speaking, you have to do seven 198 00:09:11,045 --> 00:09:12,905 Speaker 2: minute speech. You have 30 minutes to prepare to do 199 00:09:12,935 --> 00:09:15,165 Speaker 2: a seven minute speech. And then the judges ask you questions. 200 00:09:15,855 --> 00:09:18,615 Speaker 2: I was on like the weekend regional, whatever in Virginia. 201 00:09:18,635 --> 00:09:21,314 Speaker 2: And this judge asked me if I advocated for the 202 00:09:21,315 --> 00:09:24,704 Speaker 2: 10 commandments in the classroom. And I said, Yes, if 203 00:09:24,725 --> 00:09:26,084 Speaker 2: they're in the Supreme Court, why can't they be in 204 00:09:26,105 --> 00:09:29,585 Speaker 2: the classroom? And the judge gave me like last place. 205 00:09:29,905 --> 00:09:31,045 Speaker 1: And I didn't like that answer. 206 00:09:31,085 --> 00:09:32,765 Speaker 2: I didn't like it at all. And he was foolish 207 00:09:32,805 --> 00:09:35,845 Speaker 2: enough to like write why. Like he literally discriminated against 208 00:09:35,865 --> 00:09:37,765 Speaker 2: me because of my faith. And you know, I'm a 209 00:09:37,865 --> 00:09:41,005 Speaker 2: kid in Jerry Falwell Sr. 's church in Lynchburg, Virginia. Like, 210 00:09:41,665 --> 00:09:44,165 Speaker 2: I don't really get who Jerry Falwell Sr. is. He's 211 00:09:44,185 --> 00:09:47,195 Speaker 2: just my pastor. And I wrote him a note, pastor 212 00:09:47,245 --> 00:09:50,615 Speaker 2: at trbc.org, just like the random address, like telling him 213 00:09:50,635 --> 00:09:53,054 Speaker 2: what had happened to me. And the next day in 214 00:09:53,095 --> 00:09:56,365 Speaker 2: the church service, he read part of my email on 215 00:09:56,425 --> 00:09:58,965 Speaker 2: national television. He stood up for me because I was 216 00:09:59,005 --> 00:10:01,255 Speaker 2: a kid in the church. This is who he was. 217 00:10:01,955 --> 00:10:06,125 Speaker 2: And on another occasion, my grandfather actually was a country 218 00:10:06,165 --> 00:10:08,525 Speaker 2: preacher in the mountains of North Carolina. He was a 219 00:10:08,545 --> 00:10:12,545 Speaker 2: godly man. And I used to go preach for his friends. 220 00:10:13,105 --> 00:10:16,045 Speaker 2: And one of these churches I preached at, I think 221 00:10:16,065 --> 00:10:19,165 Speaker 2: it was in northern Georgia, there were not more than 222 00:10:19,165 --> 00:10:24,735 Speaker 2: 20 people in this church. And yet, someone in that 223 00:10:24,745 --> 00:10:29,595 Speaker 2: church took cassette tape of my sermon that weekend. And 224 00:10:29,855 --> 00:10:34,075 Speaker 2: this person watched Jerry Falwell on TV and sent it 225 00:10:34,215 --> 00:10:37,714 Speaker 2: to Jerry Falwell, Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, Virginia in 226 00:10:37,735 --> 00:10:42,775 Speaker 2: the mail. And Falwell got hundreds of thousands of letters 227 00:10:43,035 --> 00:10:47,594 Speaker 2: a week. Somehow, that single piece of mail made it 228 00:10:47,615 --> 00:10:49,735 Speaker 2: to him at the church. He listened to the tape. 229 00:10:50,175 --> 00:10:51,935 Speaker 2: And I came home from my public school one day. 230 00:10:51,975 --> 00:10:54,255 Speaker 2: He had found my phone number It left me a 231 00:10:54,295 --> 00:10:58,415 Speaker 2: message on the old voice recording machine to encourage me 232 00:10:58,465 --> 00:11:01,445 Speaker 2: as a young preacher. And, you know, it was just 233 00:11:01,465 --> 00:11:03,385 Speaker 2: the providence of God. 234 00:11:03,445 --> 00:11:05,265 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Jerry, I got to know him a 235 00:11:05,305 --> 00:11:08,125 Speaker 1: little bit. I went and spoke at Liberty years ago 236 00:11:08,695 --> 00:11:11,035 Speaker 1: when he was still there. And, you know, I saw 237 00:11:11,055 --> 00:11:13,195 Speaker 1: a side of him that a lot of people didn't see, 238 00:11:13,575 --> 00:11:17,835 Speaker 1: the fun-loving jokester Jerry Falwell. Like, I'm just standing there 239 00:11:17,915 --> 00:11:20,934 Speaker 1: on the stage. He runs up behind me and, ah, 240 00:11:21,015 --> 00:11:23,935 Speaker 1: it scares me. And I'm, what's going on? That's Jerry Falwell? 241 00:11:24,375 --> 00:11:26,945 Speaker 1: And I was driving with him in a Suburban, and 242 00:11:26,985 --> 00:11:28,925 Speaker 1: there would be the students, you know, on the sidewalk. 243 00:11:28,985 --> 00:11:30,745 Speaker 1: And he'd act like he was going to drive the 244 00:11:30,785 --> 00:11:34,045 Speaker 1: Suburban over into the sidewalk. He'd laugh, and they'd laugh. 245 00:11:34,365 --> 00:11:39,195 Speaker 1: Everybody knew him, you know, as a warm person. you know, joyful, 246 00:11:39,615 --> 00:11:42,135 Speaker 1: happy guy. Because when he watched him preach, he had 247 00:11:42,175 --> 00:11:46,155 Speaker 1: a certain way of coming across, a very authoritative, very certain, 248 00:11:46,175 --> 00:11:48,875 Speaker 1: which is fine. But there was a real light side 249 00:11:48,895 --> 00:11:51,365 Speaker 1: to him. And he obviously took an interest in a 250 00:11:51,415 --> 00:11:54,485 Speaker 1: young Johnny Moore. So let's talk about some of the 251 00:11:54,525 --> 00:11:56,804 Speaker 1: things going on in the world. It's been three years 252 00:11:56,885 --> 00:12:02,444 Speaker 1: since October 7th. People tend to gloss over this event. Well, yes, 253 00:12:03,325 --> 00:12:06,525 Speaker 1: was it around 1,200 people were murdered on that day? 254 00:12:07,065 --> 00:12:10,285 Speaker 1: and people taken hostage, but they don't go into the details. 255 00:12:11,305 --> 00:12:14,965 Speaker 1: And I remember Franklin Graham had a copy of the video, 256 00:12:15,465 --> 00:12:18,705 Speaker 1: some of which was taken by the terrorists themselves. He says, 257 00:12:18,725 --> 00:12:21,265 Speaker 1: do you want to see this? I said, I actually don't. 258 00:12:22,165 --> 00:12:24,475 Speaker 1: And then he said, watch a little of it. And 259 00:12:24,505 --> 00:12:28,215 Speaker 1: I watched just a little, maybe four minutes. It's still 260 00:12:28,245 --> 00:12:30,435 Speaker 1: in my mind. It was so horrifying because it was 261 00:12:30,475 --> 00:12:33,395 Speaker 1: taken from the viewpoint of one of these men murdering 262 00:12:33,495 --> 00:12:39,305 Speaker 1: an innocent Jewish man And you saw how barbaric it was. 263 00:12:39,605 --> 00:12:42,755 Speaker 1: And sometimes I feel like, have we glossed over that 264 00:12:42,795 --> 00:12:45,314 Speaker 1: too much? Do we need to just pause for a moment? 265 00:12:45,355 --> 00:12:48,695 Speaker 1: Because next to the Holocaust, this is one of the 266 00:12:48,735 --> 00:12:51,495 Speaker 1: most horrific things that has happened to the Jewish people. 267 00:12:51,835 --> 00:12:55,444 Speaker 1: And it happened in their homeland, where they have this 268 00:12:55,585 --> 00:13:01,105 Speaker 1: very strong military and state-of-the-art intelligence and everything else that 269 00:13:01,145 --> 00:13:04,304 Speaker 1: they have to have this happen to them. I mean, 270 00:13:04,345 --> 00:13:07,665 Speaker 1: if it happened in America, to compare, because we also 271 00:13:07,725 --> 00:13:12,405 Speaker 1: just had the anniversary of 9-11, it would be like 272 00:13:12,405 --> 00:13:15,765 Speaker 1: 40,000 Americans slaughtered. I think that would get our attention. 273 00:13:16,315 --> 00:13:20,195 Speaker 1: Having 3,000 murdered certainly got our attention, rightly so. How 274 00:13:20,235 --> 00:13:25,555 Speaker 1: about 40,000? Proportionately the size of Israel. That's what happened 275 00:13:25,595 --> 00:13:29,735 Speaker 1: to them. Talk about that event, what actually happened on 276 00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:33,135 Speaker 1: that day, and why it was so devastating to Israel. 277 00:13:34,265 --> 00:13:37,465 Speaker 2: And also the hostages, including the children. They took kids hostage. 278 00:13:37,665 --> 00:13:38,665 Speaker 1: Babies. Babies. 279 00:13:38,925 --> 00:13:39,725 Speaker 2: They killed babies. 280 00:13:40,525 --> 00:13:42,054 Speaker 1: They killed babies. 281 00:13:42,095 --> 00:13:43,515 Speaker 2: They put a baby in an oven. 282 00:13:44,275 --> 00:13:47,055 Speaker 1: People want to dispute that one point. Well, there's no 283 00:13:47,815 --> 00:13:50,455 Speaker 1: evidence to support that, but it actually happened. 284 00:13:50,475 --> 00:13:54,055 Speaker 2: There's a lot of evidence. And, you know, you're right. 285 00:13:54,075 --> 00:13:56,935 Speaker 2: I mean, October 7th was the single biggest attack against 286 00:13:57,095 --> 00:14:01,335 Speaker 2: the Jewish people since the Holocaust. I remember that morning. 287 00:14:01,775 --> 00:14:03,834 Speaker 2: I was supposed to fly to Israel that night. I 288 00:14:03,875 --> 00:14:07,355 Speaker 2: was literally getting an award on Wednesday for my work 289 00:14:07,395 --> 00:14:10,155 Speaker 2: building bridges between Arabs and Israelis. And then I was 290 00:14:10,195 --> 00:14:12,765 Speaker 2: going from there to Saudi Arabia. That was my plan 291 00:14:12,805 --> 00:14:15,965 Speaker 2: that week because we were on the edge of peace 292 00:14:15,985 --> 00:14:17,865 Speaker 2: between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And this is part of 293 00:14:17,925 --> 00:14:20,825 Speaker 2: what Hamas was doing and with Iran's support to try 294 00:14:20,845 --> 00:14:29,555 Speaker 2: to derail these peace plans. But it was a singular 295 00:14:29,695 --> 00:14:33,905 Speaker 2: event of terror. And And what makes it even worse– 296 00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:36,145 Speaker 2: everything about it is terrible– what makes it even worse 297 00:14:36,345 --> 00:14:38,625 Speaker 2: is that the people who lived in those kibbutzim, those 298 00:14:38,885 --> 00:14:42,245 Speaker 2: little villages next to the Gaza Strip, many of these 299 00:14:42,285 --> 00:14:45,165 Speaker 2: were the people most committed to peace. I mean, they 300 00:14:45,185 --> 00:14:46,985 Speaker 2: were the people who lived there for that purpose. 301 00:14:47,405 --> 00:14:49,265 Speaker 1: Those were the people at the music festival. 302 00:14:49,925 --> 00:14:52,165 Speaker 2: These hundreds and hundreds of young people. It was a 303 00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:57,215 Speaker 2: peace festival. And in fact, some of the Hamas operatives 304 00:14:57,265 --> 00:14:59,415 Speaker 2: from that day that broke through and killed all those 305 00:14:59,435 --> 00:15:04,085 Speaker 2: people in such horrific ways– they actually were actually employed 306 00:15:04,705 --> 00:15:07,945 Speaker 2: on a, on a regular basis by those kibbutzim. They actually, they, 307 00:15:08,185 --> 00:15:10,075 Speaker 2: they crossed over and they allowed them to work. And 308 00:15:10,105 --> 00:15:12,895 Speaker 2: while they were working, they were collecting intelligence in order 309 00:15:12,935 --> 00:15:16,155 Speaker 2: to prepare for this, for this horrible attack. And, you know, 310 00:15:16,255 --> 00:15:20,135 Speaker 2: that we are very much living in a pre-October 7, 311 00:15:20,135 --> 00:15:24,855 Speaker 2: post-October 7 world. And, you know, I, I, that, that week, 312 00:15:24,875 --> 00:15:26,375 Speaker 2: instead of going to Israel, I ended up going to 313 00:15:26,395 --> 00:15:29,935 Speaker 2: the EU parliament. And I, I, um, I spoke about 314 00:15:29,955 --> 00:15:31,675 Speaker 2: the hostages for the first time there, and then we 315 00:15:31,715 --> 00:15:34,465 Speaker 2: led a rally a few weeks after that in Geneva 316 00:15:34,515 --> 00:15:37,325 Speaker 2: with evangelicals in front of the UN human rights infrastructure 317 00:15:37,345 --> 00:15:40,045 Speaker 2: to call for the release of the hostages. It just 318 00:15:40,105 --> 00:15:45,505 Speaker 2: went on and on and on from there. And there 319 00:15:45,525 --> 00:15:48,285 Speaker 2: are all kinds of obvious things that October 7th revealed. 320 00:15:48,935 --> 00:15:53,365 Speaker 2: The less obvious things that it revealed was just the total– 321 00:15:54,095 --> 00:15:57,335 Speaker 2: moral corruption of so many of our institutions and so 322 00:15:57,375 --> 00:16:00,355 Speaker 2: many of our leaders who could not see good and evil. 323 00:16:00,815 --> 00:16:06,645 Speaker 2: Because people forget that on October 8th, when many of 324 00:16:06,725 --> 00:16:10,425 Speaker 2: our churches were praying for our friends in Israel, on 325 00:16:10,485 --> 00:16:16,525 Speaker 2: October 8th, 2023, protests erupted in all of our democratic 326 00:16:17,165 --> 00:16:18,945 Speaker 2: capitals and all of the major cities in the world. 327 00:16:18,965 --> 00:16:21,265 Speaker 1: You would think there would be protests in favor of Israel, 328 00:16:21,565 --> 00:16:22,385 Speaker 1: and it was the very opposite. 329 00:16:22,405 --> 00:16:26,135 Speaker 2: They were protesting in support of Hamas. And it just 330 00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:27,875 Speaker 2: shows what had grown up underneath. 331 00:16:27,895 --> 00:16:31,525 Speaker 1: From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. 332 00:16:31,565 --> 00:16:34,565 Speaker 2: They were celebrating it all. And they were celebrating it 333 00:16:34,725 --> 00:16:41,475 Speaker 2: all as before Israel had retaliated in a war that 334 00:16:41,515 --> 00:16:44,375 Speaker 2: Hamas started that day. And that's what it was. It 335 00:16:44,415 --> 00:16:46,675 Speaker 2: was a war that they started. There were thousands and 336 00:16:46,695 --> 00:16:47,335 Speaker 2: thousands of Hamas operatives. 337 00:16:47,355 --> 00:16:49,735 Speaker 1: What do you think the objective of Hamas was? Like, 338 00:16:50,155 --> 00:16:53,865 Speaker 1: we hope... that this war accomplishes this goal. 339 00:16:54,005 --> 00:16:56,685 Speaker 2: Oh, they wanted to wipe Israel out. I mean, what 340 00:16:57,025 --> 00:17:02,555 Speaker 2: Yahya Sinwar was doing was he was, number one, he 341 00:17:02,575 --> 00:17:04,415 Speaker 2: was concerned that if there's going to be peace between 342 00:17:04,475 --> 00:17:08,675 Speaker 2: Israel and Saudi Arabia, that it would reset the entire region. 343 00:17:09,455 --> 00:17:11,895 Speaker 2: Number two, and Iran was involved in all of this. 344 00:17:12,274 --> 00:17:17,405 Speaker 2: Iran was, the Iranian IRGC dreamed up all the tunnels 345 00:17:17,425 --> 00:17:20,465 Speaker 2: and all the infrastructure. They trained the operatives. They smuggled 346 00:17:20,484 --> 00:17:24,455 Speaker 2: the weapons. But what Yahya Senwar thought was that they 347 00:17:24,475 --> 00:17:29,625 Speaker 2: would break through in Gaza, by the way, sometimes using paragliders. 348 00:17:30,205 --> 00:17:34,404 Speaker 2: And the paragliding training actually came from Europeans that were 349 00:17:34,425 --> 00:17:37,705 Speaker 2: trying to help with tourism, oddly enough, in the Gaza Strip. 350 00:17:39,064 --> 00:17:42,784 Speaker 2: But Yahya thought that evil, evil man, they were going 351 00:17:42,804 --> 00:17:45,124 Speaker 2: to break through and then Hezbollah was going to join 352 00:17:45,165 --> 00:17:48,544 Speaker 2: from the north with 150,000 rockets. And it would be 353 00:17:48,584 --> 00:17:57,075 Speaker 2: the destruction of Gaza. And for whatever reason, Hezbollah did 354 00:17:57,135 --> 00:18:01,784 Speaker 2: not join in. And there have been the reasons for 355 00:18:02,705 --> 00:18:05,185 Speaker 2: all of that, some of which was Sinwar was really 356 00:18:05,304 --> 00:18:09,504 Speaker 2: operating on his own timetable and wasn't coordinating with all 357 00:18:09,524 --> 00:18:12,264 Speaker 2: of the Iranian proxies and all of these things. But 358 00:18:12,354 --> 00:18:17,014 Speaker 2: it was not inconceivable that had that plan actually been 359 00:18:17,074 --> 00:18:20,925 Speaker 2: implemented as he imagined it, with an attack from the south, 360 00:18:20,984 --> 00:18:26,364 Speaker 2: an attack from the north, Iranian proxies in Syria, and 361 00:18:26,385 --> 00:18:30,374 Speaker 2: maybe even Iran itself joining. It was an existential moment 362 00:18:30,475 --> 00:18:32,935 Speaker 2: for Israel. It was a shock that with all of 363 00:18:32,975 --> 00:18:36,675 Speaker 2: their technology and all of their innovation, that they could 364 00:18:36,715 --> 00:18:38,635 Speaker 2: still be vulnerable. 365 00:18:38,854 --> 00:18:40,864 Speaker 1: You know, it's ironic. I was on a phone call 366 00:18:41,004 --> 00:18:45,824 Speaker 1: with a number of other pastors and Christian leaders orchestrated 367 00:18:45,945 --> 00:18:52,215 Speaker 1: by Mike Evans. And Prime Minister Netanyahu was on. And 368 00:18:52,234 --> 00:18:56,655 Speaker 1: he was telling us how safe and secure Israel is, 369 00:18:57,155 --> 00:19:01,414 Speaker 1: how advanced they are technologically. They've never been stronger. He 370 00:19:01,435 --> 00:19:04,925 Speaker 1: was talking about this peace treaty or this, you know, 371 00:19:04,984 --> 00:19:08,665 Speaker 1: new relationship with Saudi Arabia. And it was so optimistic. 372 00:19:08,744 --> 00:19:11,044 Speaker 1: And it was only a couple of few days after 373 00:19:11,084 --> 00:19:14,734 Speaker 1: that that this happened. So clearly he did not see 374 00:19:14,774 --> 00:19:17,395 Speaker 1: this coming. How could there be a breach of this 375 00:19:17,494 --> 00:19:23,845 Speaker 1: kind without israeli's intelligence massad their military knowing. 376 00:19:23,564 --> 00:19:25,965 Speaker 2: About it i mean all of that will be will 377 00:19:25,984 --> 00:19:28,264 Speaker 2: be studied and analyzed but i think it's a lesson 378 00:19:28,284 --> 00:19:30,994 Speaker 2: for all of us yes that even the most powerful 379 00:19:31,145 --> 00:19:34,274 Speaker 2: sophisticated countries in the world can have can have blind 380 00:19:34,314 --> 00:19:36,655 Speaker 2: spots i mean the united states has some blind spots 381 00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:38,374 Speaker 2: some of which i know about which i will not 382 00:19:38,415 --> 00:19:40,895 Speaker 2: say on this microphone right because you know you don't 383 00:19:40,935 --> 00:19:43,225 Speaker 2: want other people to know about them but every country 384 00:19:43,264 --> 00:19:46,764 Speaker 2: does yeah um And one of the things that Israel 385 00:19:46,804 --> 00:19:49,164 Speaker 2: lost in the October 7th attack was that sort of 386 00:19:49,264 --> 00:19:56,244 Speaker 2: like mysterious deterrence and invincibility, which they steadily. gained back 387 00:19:56,425 --> 00:19:59,685 Speaker 2: as they prosecuted the war with the Pager operation in Lebanon. 388 00:20:00,344 --> 00:20:03,284 Speaker 2: And now you're seeing the Middle East just totally, totally, 389 00:20:03,645 --> 00:20:06,645 Speaker 2: totally reshaped in front of our eyes. And I think, 390 00:20:06,844 --> 00:20:09,615 Speaker 2: you know, the net effect of it will be This 391 00:20:09,675 --> 00:20:13,415 Speaker 2: is not actually the beginning of a period of more– 392 00:20:13,564 --> 00:20:16,264 Speaker 2: another generation of war and terror in the Middle East. 393 00:20:16,784 --> 00:20:21,304 Speaker 2: It's actually the last gasp of the extremists. And I 394 00:20:21,385 --> 00:20:23,444 Speaker 2: believe there will be a different Iran. I believe these 395 00:20:23,504 --> 00:20:27,064 Speaker 2: proxies will be defeated. I believe you will see a 396 00:20:27,225 --> 00:20:32,364 Speaker 2: wave of peace all across the region. But it was 397 00:20:32,385 --> 00:20:34,205 Speaker 2: a shot, you know, not only to Israel, it was 398 00:20:34,225 --> 00:20:36,604 Speaker 2: a shot to all those who love peace and freedom, 399 00:20:36,844 --> 00:20:39,425 Speaker 2: you know, around the world, that there really is evil 400 00:20:39,905 --> 00:20:42,524 Speaker 2: in the world. And we have never in our lifetimes 401 00:20:42,764 --> 00:20:46,534 Speaker 2: seen evil like we saw on that day on October 7th, which, 402 00:20:46,975 --> 00:20:49,114 Speaker 2: by the way, wasn't just an attack on Israel. The 403 00:20:49,254 --> 00:20:53,895 Speaker 2: victims of October 7th, both the hostages and those who 404 00:20:54,034 --> 00:20:57,114 Speaker 2: were massacred, were citizens not just of Israel. They were 405 00:20:57,155 --> 00:21:01,494 Speaker 2: citizens of 40 different countries, including virtually every country in 406 00:21:02,705 --> 00:21:04,754 Speaker 2: And yet we watched in front of our eyes as 407 00:21:04,794 --> 00:21:11,115 Speaker 2: the victims of that attack were treated as the criminals. 408 00:21:11,615 --> 00:21:15,335 Speaker 2: And it's been insane, insane to watch even our own 409 00:21:15,375 --> 00:21:16,274 Speaker 2: politics in America. 410 00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:20,195 Speaker 1: Well, and then so Israel's responded. And of course, they're 411 00:21:20,234 --> 00:21:24,314 Speaker 1: accused by some of genocide. I don't even think people 412 00:21:24,334 --> 00:21:26,334 Speaker 1: who use the word genocide know what the word means. 413 00:21:26,975 --> 00:21:30,394 Speaker 1: If Israel wanted to commit a genocide, they could do it, 414 00:21:30,405 --> 00:21:32,324 Speaker 1: and they could do it in short order, but they've 415 00:21:32,344 --> 00:21:35,885 Speaker 1: done nothing of the kind. But their response, you know, 416 00:21:36,465 --> 00:21:39,705 Speaker 1: there's innocent children that have been killed, but we don't 417 00:21:39,754 --> 00:21:42,734 Speaker 1: even know how accurate some of that information is that's 418 00:21:43,074 --> 00:21:46,754 Speaker 1: relayed through a very compliant and cooperative press with this 419 00:21:46,794 --> 00:21:52,075 Speaker 1: sort of agenda, this anti-Israel agenda. So tell me what 420 00:21:52,135 --> 00:21:56,044 Speaker 1: you think about the response of Israel and maybe bring 421 00:21:56,104 --> 00:21:58,804 Speaker 1: clarity to what's going on in Gaza, because you know 422 00:21:58,844 --> 00:22:00,205 Speaker 1: a lot about that in particular. 423 00:22:00,604 --> 00:22:06,184 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there was obviously not a genocide in Gaza. 424 00:22:07,445 --> 00:22:13,304 Speaker 2: And the shocking thing is, even as we're speaking, we're speaking, 425 00:22:13,685 --> 00:22:17,324 Speaker 2: you know, after the UN General Assembly took place in 426 00:22:17,365 --> 00:22:20,904 Speaker 2: New York, and the absolutely horrible Secretary General of the 427 00:22:20,925 --> 00:22:26,484 Speaker 2: United Nations concluded in his remarks that the worst thing 428 00:22:26,564 --> 00:22:29,005 Speaker 2: he's seen as a Secretary General of the United Nations 429 00:22:29,125 --> 00:22:31,355 Speaker 2: is what happened in the Gaza Strip. While he's been 430 00:22:31,385 --> 00:22:34,294 Speaker 2: Secretary General of the United Nations, like literally millions of 431 00:22:34,354 --> 00:22:37,915 Speaker 2: people have died under his watch. What did happen in 432 00:22:38,395 --> 00:22:41,894 Speaker 2: Gaza was Hamas started a war. 433 00:22:41,935 --> 00:22:42,335 Speaker 1: That's right. 434 00:22:43,014 --> 00:22:45,005 Speaker 2: And to your point, if there was an attack like 435 00:22:45,044 --> 00:22:47,645 Speaker 2: that on the United States of America, like we would 436 00:22:47,685 --> 00:22:51,465 Speaker 2: respond and the Israelis would, responded to that war. And 437 00:22:51,834 --> 00:22:59,114 Speaker 2: all wars are horrible. And civilians die in wars. And yet, 438 00:22:59,554 --> 00:23:03,094 Speaker 2: on the same token, it's not only a compliant press, 439 00:23:03,375 --> 00:23:06,354 Speaker 2: it's that what we've been experiencing is actually the first, 440 00:23:06,395 --> 00:23:10,395 Speaker 2: what I call the first global information war, where we 441 00:23:10,435 --> 00:23:15,094 Speaker 2: have seen basically everything Hamas said, the global media and 442 00:23:15,135 --> 00:23:18,335 Speaker 2: many governments took at face value, and everything Israel said 443 00:23:19,715 --> 00:23:22,734 Speaker 2: they treated it as a lie. And it should have 444 00:23:22,754 --> 00:23:25,155 Speaker 2: been the exact opposite. So why is it this way? 445 00:23:25,244 --> 00:23:27,504 Speaker 2: And I think it has a lot to do with anti-Semitism. 446 00:23:27,965 --> 00:23:31,564 Speaker 2: We have a long history of blood libels against the 447 00:23:31,604 --> 00:23:35,744 Speaker 2: Jewish people. We have a long, long history of anti-Semites 448 00:23:35,905 --> 00:23:39,684 Speaker 2: coming out of the woodwork in these types of moments. 449 00:23:39,844 --> 00:23:43,725 Speaker 2: And by the way, the data is just undeniable at 450 00:23:43,744 --> 00:23:49,254 Speaker 2: this point. I mean, even Hamas itself, they have– their 451 00:23:49,294 --> 00:23:54,114 Speaker 2: statistics are like 75,000 to 85,000 people died over the 452 00:23:54,175 --> 00:23:57,115 Speaker 2: course of that war in the Gaza Strip. And yet, 453 00:23:58,564 --> 00:24:03,024 Speaker 2: Hamas has, you know, a few months ago, they had 454 00:24:03,064 --> 00:24:09,024 Speaker 2: a list of over 50,000 Hamas operatives whose families would 455 00:24:09,084 --> 00:24:14,994 Speaker 2: receive funds because they died on the Hamas side of fighting. Like, 456 00:24:15,594 --> 00:24:18,734 Speaker 2: the whole time during this whole war, like everyone who 457 00:24:18,774 --> 00:24:21,595 Speaker 2: died in the Gaza strip was treated as a civilian, uh, 458 00:24:21,635 --> 00:24:25,134 Speaker 2: by the information ministry in Hamas, by the press, not as, 459 00:24:25,354 --> 00:24:28,094 Speaker 2: not as fighters. And so, you know, it's just the 460 00:24:28,215 --> 00:24:32,435 Speaker 2: whole world was upside down. The whole thing is twisted around. And, 461 00:24:32,875 --> 00:24:34,514 Speaker 2: you know, it reminds me of that, that verse in 462 00:24:34,534 --> 00:24:36,915 Speaker 2: the Bible, um, in the old Testament where it says like, 463 00:24:37,074 --> 00:24:39,654 Speaker 2: truth is just fallen in the streets. And, and it, 464 00:24:39,814 --> 00:24:42,244 Speaker 2: it just, and I can tell you, you know, I, I, 465 00:24:42,415 --> 00:24:46,534 Speaker 2: I spent last summer, um, uh, helping feed the people 466 00:24:46,554 --> 00:24:49,935 Speaker 2: of Gaza. The U S government asked me if I would, 467 00:24:50,074 --> 00:24:53,435 Speaker 2: if I would run this humanitarian operation, the Gaza strip, 468 00:24:53,994 --> 00:24:58,575 Speaker 2: or we delivered over 200 million, about over nearly 200 469 00:24:58,574 --> 00:25:02,764 Speaker 2: million meals for free to the people of Gaza that 470 00:25:02,824 --> 00:25:05,845 Speaker 2: Hamas could not steal because what Hamas was doing was 471 00:25:06,044 --> 00:25:09,084 Speaker 2: every piece of food or whatever else that was coming 472 00:25:09,125 --> 00:25:12,024 Speaker 2: in the Gaza strip from the big international UN agencies 473 00:25:12,044 --> 00:25:14,924 Speaker 2: was and other humanitarian agencies, they were stealing it, they 474 00:25:14,945 --> 00:25:16,854 Speaker 2: were hoarding it, and then they were selling it to 475 00:25:16,875 --> 00:25:18,354 Speaker 2: the poor people in the Gaza Strip, and they were 476 00:25:18,475 --> 00:25:22,514 Speaker 2: using the revenue to fuel their war. And yet, when 477 00:25:22,534 --> 00:25:25,415 Speaker 2: we were doing this effort, you would expect the world 478 00:25:25,455 --> 00:25:28,175 Speaker 2: to celebrate it. We're getting food directly to the people 479 00:25:28,215 --> 00:25:30,754 Speaker 2: of Gaza for free. No one can steal it. There's 480 00:25:30,774 --> 00:25:33,314 Speaker 2: no diversion of aid. And yet, because it was a 481 00:25:33,415 --> 00:25:37,064 Speaker 2: threat to Hamas continuing to exist and continuing to control 482 00:25:37,115 --> 00:25:41,705 Speaker 2: the people of Gaza, We were treated as the worst 483 00:25:41,764 --> 00:25:45,285 Speaker 2: people in the world for refusing to let Hamas use 484 00:25:45,324 --> 00:25:46,845 Speaker 2: food as its weapon of war. 485 00:25:47,084 --> 00:25:50,804 Speaker 1: So we have the Houthis, we have Hamas, we have Hezbollah, 486 00:25:51,405 --> 00:25:55,504 Speaker 1: all funded by Iran. And we've been in a prolonged 487 00:25:55,945 --> 00:25:58,364 Speaker 1: conflict with them. Do we call it a war? It 488 00:25:58,445 --> 00:26:01,585 Speaker 1: is a war. And you've met President Trump. I've been 489 00:26:01,604 --> 00:26:04,824 Speaker 1: in the Oval Office with you, with him and others. 490 00:26:05,705 --> 00:26:09,125 Speaker 1: What advice, if you were sitting with the president, would 491 00:26:09,165 --> 00:26:15,185 Speaker 1: you give him about the current conflict in Iran? Elevate 492 00:26:15,225 --> 00:26:21,085 Speaker 1: it militarily? De-escalate it militarily? Continue on the path he's 493 00:26:21,165 --> 00:26:24,925 Speaker 1: already on? What would be the solution? 494 00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:30,064 Speaker 2: First of all, Iran has been at war with the 495 00:26:30,104 --> 00:26:33,325 Speaker 2: United States for decades. They killed 250 of our Marines 496 00:26:33,385 --> 00:26:38,424 Speaker 2: in Beirut. They facilitated countless terrorist acts around. 497 00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:40,604 Speaker 1: The world targeting- The hostages under Carter's. 498 00:26:40,744 --> 00:26:43,185 Speaker 2: They attempted to kill the president of the United States 499 00:26:43,205 --> 00:26:44,564 Speaker 2: on multiple occasions. 500 00:26:44,804 --> 00:26:47,084 Speaker 1: And they're still threatening to do it, this president. 501 00:26:47,445 --> 00:26:52,534 Speaker 2: And they have done incredibly insane, crazy, irrational things in 502 00:26:52,554 --> 00:26:53,774 Speaker 2: the last couple of years. 503 00:26:53,975 --> 00:26:54,175 Speaker 1: Yeah. 504 00:26:54,514 --> 00:26:57,754 Speaker 2: So imagine this country with a nuclear weapon. 505 00:26:57,834 --> 00:26:58,455 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. 506 00:26:58,594 --> 00:27:00,415 Speaker 2: They cannot have a nuclear weapon. 507 00:27:00,435 --> 00:27:00,575 Speaker 1: Right. 508 00:27:00,594 --> 00:27:03,914 Speaker 2: And the president, he has that as his North Star, 509 00:27:04,215 --> 00:27:07,955 Speaker 2: and that's exactly- Right. And he has to keep it up. 510 00:27:08,084 --> 00:27:11,665 Speaker 2: I mean, what's happening now is actually having a profound 511 00:27:11,705 --> 00:27:14,244 Speaker 2: effect on the Iranian economy. You know, not a single 512 00:27:14,365 --> 00:27:18,144 Speaker 2: ship of oil has gone into Iran. Iran hasn't been 513 00:27:18,185 --> 00:27:22,494 Speaker 2: able to export any oil. The sanctions regime is basically 514 00:27:22,574 --> 00:27:26,475 Speaker 2: squeezing the economy of Iran, you know. The Iranian people 515 00:27:26,514 --> 00:27:28,455 Speaker 2: have to decide the future of that country, and we 516 00:27:28,475 --> 00:27:30,344 Speaker 2: need to pray every single day. And we have a 517 00:27:30,365 --> 00:27:33,424 Speaker 2: lot of Christians in Iran, evangelical Christians in Iran, one 518 00:27:33,445 --> 00:27:35,625 Speaker 2: of the fastest growing churches in the world. These people 519 00:27:35,665 --> 00:27:39,435 Speaker 2: have suffered so, so much. But why are they suffering? 520 00:27:39,594 --> 00:27:41,874 Speaker 2: They're not suffering because of the United States. They're not 521 00:27:41,915 --> 00:27:44,375 Speaker 2: suffering because of Israel. They're not suffering because of the West. 522 00:27:44,975 --> 00:27:50,455 Speaker 2: They are suffering because of this horrible, horrible theocratic authoritarian 523 00:27:50,524 --> 00:27:56,804 Speaker 2: dictatorship that has made them hostage to an apocalyptic idea 524 00:27:56,984 --> 00:27:59,744 Speaker 2: that is fueled by hate of America and hate of Israel. 525 00:28:00,564 --> 00:28:05,984 Speaker 2: And the president refused to pass this problem down to 526 00:28:06,125 --> 00:28:10,945 Speaker 2: another generation. The president refused to allow Iran to rush 527 00:28:10,994 --> 00:28:15,435 Speaker 2: towards a nuclear weapon. This is– he doesn't want war. 528 00:28:17,215 --> 00:28:20,455 Speaker 2: The president whose biggest achievement was in the first administration 529 00:28:20,475 --> 00:28:22,674 Speaker 2: was the Abraham Accords. It was peace in the Middle East. 530 00:28:23,074 --> 00:28:28,764 Speaker 2: Up until this conflict with Iran, one of the favorite 531 00:28:28,784 --> 00:28:30,465 Speaker 2: things that he was doing and that he talked about 532 00:28:30,504 --> 00:28:33,244 Speaker 2: constantly was like achieving eight peace deals. And I know 533 00:28:33,284 --> 00:28:35,174 Speaker 2: about some of these peace deals. Like these are really– 534 00:28:35,225 --> 00:28:38,295 Speaker 2: peace between Azerbaijan and Armenia is– is like the hardest 535 00:28:38,354 --> 00:28:40,855 Speaker 2: thing in the world to do. And the president made 536 00:28:40,875 --> 00:28:43,515 Speaker 2: that a priority and worked on that and achieved, you know, 537 00:28:43,834 --> 00:28:47,094 Speaker 2: a clear step in that process. He didn't want to 538 00:28:47,115 --> 00:28:52,495 Speaker 2: go to war, but it is the obligation above all 539 00:28:52,555 --> 00:28:54,795 Speaker 2: other obligations for the head of state of the United 540 00:28:54,815 --> 00:29:00,864 Speaker 2: States of America to keep the country safe. And he 541 00:29:00,895 --> 00:29:03,045 Speaker 2: didn't choose the time in history that he would be president, 542 00:29:04,525 --> 00:29:09,805 Speaker 2: but history chose In God's providence, he is the president 543 00:29:10,365 --> 00:29:12,604 Speaker 2: that was at the moment where we were reaching a 544 00:29:12,665 --> 00:29:16,344 Speaker 2: point of no return on this maniacal regime having the 545 00:29:16,365 --> 00:29:20,415 Speaker 2: world's most powerful weapon, aside from everything else that they had. 546 00:29:20,515 --> 00:29:23,915 Speaker 2: And so it's not a should he or shouldn't he, 547 00:29:24,055 --> 00:29:29,055 Speaker 2: could he or couldn't he. Objectively speaking, this had to 548 00:29:29,094 --> 00:29:32,385 Speaker 2: be dealt with. And one of the worst things about 549 00:29:32,405 --> 00:29:34,545 Speaker 2: this period in American history, I'm sad to say, is 550 00:29:35,165 --> 00:29:37,975 Speaker 2: that What we should have seen is we should have 551 00:29:37,995 --> 00:29:41,775 Speaker 2: seen people, regardless of their political affiliations, regardless of who 552 00:29:41,795 --> 00:29:45,105 Speaker 2: they vote for in elections, they should have rallied around 553 00:29:46,255 --> 00:29:51,444 Speaker 2: this just cause. And instead, you know, it's the first 554 00:29:51,465 --> 00:29:55,204 Speaker 2: time in my lifetime where we haven't seen that. But 555 00:29:55,245 --> 00:29:58,884 Speaker 2: it doesn't change the fact that this had to be 556 00:29:58,925 --> 00:30:01,624 Speaker 2: dealt with. Sooner or later, it had to be dealt with. 557 00:30:01,825 --> 00:30:03,834 Speaker 2: And we had to pray for him. And by the way, 558 00:30:03,865 --> 00:30:04,925 Speaker 2: all these things are complicated. 559 00:30:05,145 --> 00:30:05,345 Speaker 1: Yeah. 560 00:30:05,685 --> 00:30:08,815 Speaker 2: You know, there are some things that are true and 561 00:30:08,854 --> 00:30:10,414 Speaker 2: some things that are false and some things that are 562 00:30:10,795 --> 00:30:13,515 Speaker 2: black and white, you know, just very, very clear. And 563 00:30:13,535 --> 00:30:16,334 Speaker 2: there's a lot of really, really hard stuff in the middle. 564 00:30:16,895 --> 00:30:18,935 Speaker 2: And that's the work of policymakers. You know, that's why, 565 00:30:19,475 --> 00:30:23,365 Speaker 2: you know, so much of my life is like now 566 00:30:23,545 --> 00:30:26,325 Speaker 2: educating and training a new generation of policymakers. And it's 567 00:30:26,385 --> 00:30:29,164 Speaker 2: dealing with those really, really complicated gray spaces. But the 568 00:30:29,185 --> 00:30:30,884 Speaker 2: president's doing the right thing and we should pray for him. 569 00:30:31,185 --> 00:30:32,905 Speaker 2: But it's not an easy thing. It's a really, really 570 00:30:32,945 --> 00:30:35,195 Speaker 2: hard thing. And by the way, it's not politically useful 571 00:30:35,235 --> 00:30:37,174 Speaker 2: for him. He'd much rather have not had to do 572 00:30:37,235 --> 00:30:40,245 Speaker 2: this leading into an election because it's very, very easily 573 00:30:40,435 --> 00:30:45,925 Speaker 2: used by political opponents, especially with gas prices and things 574 00:30:45,965 --> 00:30:50,525 Speaker 2: like that. But, you know, it's what he said. He 575 00:30:50,584 --> 00:30:52,885 Speaker 2: has to do what's right. And this was the right 576 00:30:52,925 --> 00:30:53,305 Speaker 2: thing to do. 577 00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:58,465 Speaker 1: Now, you have interesting friendships and relationships around the world 578 00:30:59,354 --> 00:31:04,144 Speaker 1: with Jewish rabbis and and Muslim leaders. I remember you 579 00:31:04,185 --> 00:31:07,864 Speaker 1: introduced me to, was it the crown prince of Bahrain? 580 00:31:07,885 --> 00:31:11,745 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, so it's amazing to me because 581 00:31:11,765 --> 00:31:15,305 Speaker 1: you're really a bridge builder, you know, and this is 582 00:31:15,344 --> 00:31:18,065 Speaker 1: a gifting I think God has given you. And I 583 00:31:18,125 --> 00:31:20,525 Speaker 1: wonder in all of these relationships and all of your 584 00:31:20,584 --> 00:31:23,885 Speaker 1: travels all around the planet, you know, if you've had 585 00:31:24,005 --> 00:31:27,854 Speaker 1: opportunities to share the gospel with some of these people 586 00:31:27,905 --> 00:31:31,565 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, and maybe you could give us a 587 00:31:31,625 --> 00:31:35,184 Speaker 1: little advice on two things. How do you share the 588 00:31:35,225 --> 00:31:39,195 Speaker 1: gospel with a Muslim? How do you share the gospel 589 00:31:39,334 --> 00:31:41,315 Speaker 1: with a Jew? It's a bit different, isn't it? 590 00:31:41,775 --> 00:31:46,135 Speaker 2: First of all, the gospel always begins for us with 591 00:31:46,215 --> 00:31:47,305 Speaker 2: showing the gospel. 592 00:31:47,505 --> 00:31:47,745 Speaker 1: Yes. 593 00:31:48,645 --> 00:31:53,985 Speaker 2: You know, I think we have to preach the gospel. 594 00:31:54,185 --> 00:31:54,405 Speaker 1: Yeah. 595 00:31:55,005 --> 00:31:56,645 Speaker 2: But we have to also show the gospel. 596 00:31:56,665 --> 00:31:57,025 Speaker 1: That's right. 597 00:31:57,385 --> 00:31:59,854 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why I feel so called 598 00:31:59,865 --> 00:32:02,174 Speaker 2: to the Middle East is It's because our faith is 599 00:32:02,255 --> 00:32:03,375 Speaker 2: actually a Middle Eastern faith. 600 00:32:03,415 --> 00:32:06,174 Speaker 1: That's very true. Okay. Jesus was Jewish. 601 00:32:06,675 --> 00:32:11,835 Speaker 2: He didn't grow up in Nebraska. Born in Bethlehem from Nazareth. 602 00:32:11,915 --> 00:32:14,394 Speaker 2: His ministry in Jerusalem, that whole part in the Galilee. 603 00:32:15,315 --> 00:32:19,335 Speaker 2: The Bible that I read, I call it the Old Testament, 604 00:32:19,635 --> 00:32:22,735 Speaker 2: but it's actually originally the Hebrew Bible. 605 00:32:22,775 --> 00:32:23,255 Speaker 1: That's right. 606 00:32:24,055 --> 00:32:27,334 Speaker 2: Everyone who wrote the Bible, with the exception of maybe 607 00:32:27,475 --> 00:32:29,875 Speaker 2: one or two, it depends on who you ask, was Jewish. 608 00:32:30,485 --> 00:32:32,185 Speaker 1: Jewish. 609 00:32:32,885 --> 00:32:36,945 Speaker 2: Our faith is rooted in the Middle East. And so, 610 00:32:37,065 --> 00:32:40,805 Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like the gospel, the Christian message, my 611 00:32:40,844 --> 00:32:45,864 Speaker 2: Christian testimony actually kind of fits contextually much better when 612 00:32:45,905 --> 00:32:49,224 Speaker 2: I'm in the Gulf or in Israel or in some 613 00:32:49,255 --> 00:32:51,515 Speaker 2: of these other countries. And also, we have an incredible 614 00:32:51,555 --> 00:32:55,455 Speaker 2: history in these places. And our history isn't just about 615 00:32:55,515 --> 00:32:58,834 Speaker 2: preaching the gospel, it's about showing the gospel. So, for instance- 616 00:33:00,005 --> 00:33:01,844 Speaker 2: If you go all across that part of the world, 617 00:33:03,604 --> 00:33:08,195 Speaker 2: many of the homes of people you know, when they 618 00:33:08,395 --> 00:33:11,035 Speaker 2: have staff, some of these really, really wealthy, famous people 619 00:33:11,075 --> 00:33:13,355 Speaker 2: in that part of the world, many of their staff 620 00:33:13,815 --> 00:33:18,575 Speaker 2: are Christians. And they're Christians from, you know, from, yeah, 621 00:33:18,594 --> 00:33:23,715 Speaker 2: the Philippines and the United States, these Christian countries. Many 622 00:33:23,745 --> 00:33:27,145 Speaker 2: of these, like, nations, the first hospital, the first university 623 00:33:27,505 --> 00:33:30,825 Speaker 2: was started by evangelical missionaries. Yeah. You know, in the UAE, 624 00:33:31,084 --> 00:33:34,495 Speaker 2: one of my favorite places, the UAE is, I think, 625 00:33:34,495 --> 00:33:37,594 Speaker 2: 55 years old, which is remarkable. I mean, this is 626 00:33:37,635 --> 00:33:40,435 Speaker 2: one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It's incredibly innovative, 627 00:33:40,475 --> 00:33:43,414 Speaker 2: a huge partner of the United States of America in 628 00:33:43,495 --> 00:33:46,975 Speaker 2: AI and other things. But 10 years before the UAE 629 00:33:47,015 --> 00:33:49,775 Speaker 2: became a country, when it was just like Emirates villages 630 00:33:49,834 --> 00:33:54,155 Speaker 2: spread all across that arid part of the Arabian Peninsula, 631 00:33:54,885 --> 00:34:00,225 Speaker 2: a Christian missionary couple that graduated from Wheaton College– traveled 632 00:34:00,305 --> 00:34:05,065 Speaker 2: to the UAE with a mission of starting a maternity hospital. 633 00:34:06,285 --> 00:34:08,545 Speaker 2: They got in their car. They landed in Dubai. They 634 00:34:08,585 --> 00:34:11,785 Speaker 2: got in their car. They drove 17 hours. Now it 635 00:34:11,825 --> 00:34:13,805 Speaker 2: takes about an hour and a half to a place 636 00:34:13,825 --> 00:34:17,105 Speaker 2: called Al Ain in the middle of the desert. And 637 00:34:17,125 --> 00:34:19,485 Speaker 2: they meet some random Arab guy in the middle of 638 00:34:19,505 --> 00:34:22,375 Speaker 2: the desert. And they asked this guy if they can 639 00:34:22,515 --> 00:34:26,865 Speaker 2: start a maternity hospital. And he let them do it. 640 00:34:28,015 --> 00:34:31,095 Speaker 2: And this maternity hospital, by the way, was the first 641 00:34:31,675 --> 00:34:35,185 Speaker 2: hospital in that whole part of the world. And at 642 00:34:35,245 --> 00:34:40,825 Speaker 2: this point in the UAE, half of children and a 643 00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:47,475 Speaker 2: third of mothers were dying at childbirth. And this leader 644 00:34:47,935 --> 00:34:51,015 Speaker 2: allowed them to start this hospital. And the person who 645 00:34:51,055 --> 00:34:54,055 Speaker 2: allowed them to start the hospital ended up, this guy, 646 00:34:54,455 --> 00:34:59,165 Speaker 2: his name was Sheikh Zayed. Sheikh Zayed became the founder 647 00:34:59,205 --> 00:35:01,605 Speaker 2: of the UAE. One of the first kids that was 648 00:35:01,665 --> 00:35:05,525 Speaker 2: born in that hospital was the current president of the UAE, 649 00:35:05,645 --> 00:35:09,885 Speaker 2: Mohammed bin Zayed. The first hands which held the president 650 00:35:11,005 --> 00:35:14,565 Speaker 2: of one of the most wealthy, successful, innovative countries in 651 00:35:14,605 --> 00:35:16,845 Speaker 2: the world, the current president, the person who signed the 652 00:35:16,955 --> 00:35:19,195 Speaker 2: Abraham Accords, by the way, making peace in that part 653 00:35:19,215 --> 00:35:21,715 Speaker 2: of the world. The first hands that held that little 654 00:35:21,735 --> 00:35:25,875 Speaker 2: baby were the hands of a Christian evangelical missionary woman. 655 00:35:25,995 --> 00:35:26,275 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 656 00:35:26,685 --> 00:35:31,375 Speaker 2: Who came to serve those Arab people. And he wasn't 657 00:35:31,395 --> 00:35:33,775 Speaker 2: the only one born there. The foreign minister was born there. 658 00:35:33,855 --> 00:35:35,495 Speaker 2: The ambassador of the United States was born there. A 659 00:35:35,515 --> 00:35:39,055 Speaker 2: full third of the royal family was born there. And today, 660 00:35:39,595 --> 00:35:42,035 Speaker 2: if you go to the UAE on a Friday, and 661 00:35:42,055 --> 00:35:44,675 Speaker 2: you have the privilege of being invited to the modulus 662 00:35:44,855 --> 00:35:48,385 Speaker 2: with the president of the UAE, and you ask him 663 00:35:48,445 --> 00:35:51,185 Speaker 2: about this hospital and this family, the Kennedys, he will 664 00:35:51,225 --> 00:35:56,915 Speaker 2: tell you the same thing. He said, those Christians... They 665 00:35:57,075 --> 00:36:03,815 Speaker 2: loved us before we discovered oil. Because now everyone goes 666 00:36:03,855 --> 00:36:06,755 Speaker 2: there with their handout, right? It's rich country, oil rich country. 667 00:36:06,775 --> 00:36:12,565 Speaker 2: The funny thing was, I actually was at Wheaton two 668 00:36:12,585 --> 00:36:15,005 Speaker 2: years ago. I spoke at their missions week. They didn't 669 00:36:15,045 --> 00:36:17,225 Speaker 2: have it for a while. They brought it back. So 670 00:36:17,245 --> 00:36:19,945 Speaker 2: I spoke in chapel for like three days. And on 671 00:36:20,385 --> 00:36:25,525 Speaker 2: the last day, I told Wheaton College about this missionary couple. 672 00:36:26,765 --> 00:36:31,594 Speaker 2: And actually, everyone I talked to at Wheaton College, no 673 00:36:31,715 --> 00:36:37,195 Speaker 2: one knew this story. But a random Christian couple who 674 00:36:37,215 --> 00:36:39,255 Speaker 2: went and served. And I think that's our story all 675 00:36:39,295 --> 00:36:41,555 Speaker 2: across the region. And when it comes to talking about 676 00:36:41,595 --> 00:36:43,585 Speaker 2: the gospel, like, there's just so many things to talk about. 677 00:36:43,605 --> 00:36:50,405 Speaker 2: You know, Jesus is actually a revered figure in Islam. 678 00:36:50,465 --> 00:36:53,685 Speaker 2: He's the second holiest prophet in Islam. 679 00:36:53,915 --> 00:36:54,315 Speaker 1: In Islam. 680 00:36:54,355 --> 00:36:56,595 Speaker 2: Like, you can just talk about Jesus. You know, it's 681 00:36:56,615 --> 00:36:58,435 Speaker 2: not like a strange thing. You talk about Jesus. And 682 00:36:58,455 --> 00:37:00,705 Speaker 2: that region's changing. Like, people, you know, they're not bothering 683 00:37:00,725 --> 00:37:03,075 Speaker 2: people having church in their house and, you know, these 684 00:37:03,125 --> 00:37:05,445 Speaker 2: sorts of things, you know, anymore. But I think we 685 00:37:05,485 --> 00:37:06,945 Speaker 2: need to be smart about the way we do it. 686 00:37:08,505 --> 00:37:12,705 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I used to think that Paul was 687 00:37:12,725 --> 00:37:15,445 Speaker 2: the least likely person to change the world, right? Because he, 688 00:37:16,385 --> 00:37:19,705 Speaker 2: you know, he was, like, rough around the edges. He was, like, 689 00:37:19,885 --> 00:37:23,325 Speaker 2: literally imprisoning Christians. Like, you know, he gets, the road 690 00:37:23,785 --> 00:37:26,185 Speaker 2: to Damascus happens when he's like on a mission to 691 00:37:26,205 --> 00:37:32,855 Speaker 2: persecute Christians. But who was Paul? Paul was born in Tarsus, 692 00:37:33,475 --> 00:37:36,355 Speaker 2: which is the center of Greek culture. He was a 693 00:37:36,455 --> 00:37:39,825 Speaker 2: Roman citizen, which is a strange thing for a Jewish 694 00:37:39,865 --> 00:37:42,685 Speaker 2: family in Tarsus. But the best theory I've ever heard 695 00:37:42,705 --> 00:37:44,925 Speaker 2: was that he made tents. He was a tent maker. 696 00:37:45,485 --> 00:37:47,585 Speaker 2: So maybe his family at some point made tents for 697 00:37:47,625 --> 00:37:50,045 Speaker 2: some Roman garrison and they were awarded citizenship. 698 00:37:50,085 --> 00:37:50,405 Speaker 1: I don't know. 699 00:37:51,205 --> 00:37:53,995 Speaker 2: And he was trained under Gamaliel, the most famous rabbi 700 00:37:54,015 --> 00:37:55,475 Speaker 2: of the time. His parents sent him all the way 701 00:37:55,495 --> 00:37:58,435 Speaker 2: to Jerusalem to learn his Judaism. And if you want 702 00:37:58,455 --> 00:38:01,155 Speaker 2: to understand the world of Jesus, what do you need 703 00:38:01,175 --> 00:38:04,955 Speaker 2: to understand when you read your New Testament? Greek culture, 704 00:38:05,175 --> 00:38:09,015 Speaker 2: Roman politics, and the Jewish religion. And Paul embodied all 705 00:38:09,035 --> 00:38:13,785 Speaker 2: of it. When Paul went to Athens, which was the 706 00:38:14,025 --> 00:38:16,925 Speaker 2: most important city in that part of the world for 707 00:38:17,045 --> 00:38:19,845 Speaker 2: centuries and centuries and centuries, and he goes on the Areopagus. 708 00:38:20,875 --> 00:38:23,535 Speaker 2: And he says, men of Athens, as I was passing 709 00:38:23,575 --> 00:38:26,395 Speaker 2: through and considering the objects of your worship, I even 710 00:38:26,475 --> 00:38:29,655 Speaker 2: found an altar to an unknown God. This God whom 711 00:38:29,695 --> 00:38:32,555 Speaker 2: you worship without knowing, I proclaim to you, the Lord 712 00:38:32,575 --> 00:38:34,515 Speaker 2: of heaven and earth doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. 713 00:38:34,535 --> 00:38:39,555 Speaker 2: It's amazing passage of scripture. And Paul quotes their poets 714 00:38:39,785 --> 00:38:43,425 Speaker 2: in his sermon. He loved those people. He knew what 715 00:38:43,525 --> 00:38:47,105 Speaker 2: they believed. He understood their story. He met them on 716 00:38:47,265 --> 00:38:50,465 Speaker 2: their terms. And I think That's the way we be 717 00:38:50,505 --> 00:38:54,005 Speaker 2: a light in so many parts of the world. And 718 00:38:55,245 --> 00:39:00,395 Speaker 2: I actually think it's a historic time for the gospel 719 00:39:00,435 --> 00:39:04,895 Speaker 2: all over. You know, Greg, there are more Christians in 720 00:39:05,115 --> 00:39:11,735 Speaker 2: China than there are members of the Communist Party in China. 721 00:39:12,575 --> 00:39:18,025 Speaker 2: I mean, it is an amazing time to be a follower. 722 00:39:18,245 --> 00:39:21,215 Speaker 2: And I can tell you In all the sort of 723 00:39:21,255 --> 00:39:23,355 Speaker 2: like random stuff I've done, you know, in my life, 724 00:39:26,825 --> 00:39:28,745 Speaker 2: you know, I think some people think you'd be like 725 00:39:29,025 --> 00:39:31,625 Speaker 2: less Christian in order to fit in. And that's like 726 00:39:31,685 --> 00:39:34,195 Speaker 2: your way of being a light. I found it to 727 00:39:34,235 --> 00:39:36,775 Speaker 2: be the exact opposite. Wow. see right through that stuff. 728 00:39:37,515 --> 00:39:38,695 Speaker 2: You just got to be who you are. 729 00:39:38,715 --> 00:39:39,215 Speaker 1: That's right. 730 00:39:39,435 --> 00:39:41,705 Speaker 2: And keep your shoulders up and your head high with 731 00:39:41,765 --> 00:39:45,585 Speaker 2: humility and be good at what you do. Right. You know, 732 00:39:45,645 --> 00:39:47,225 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, if you grew up 733 00:39:47,245 --> 00:39:49,485 Speaker 2: where I grew up, grew up, like people think like Hollywood, 734 00:39:49,545 --> 00:39:52,865 Speaker 2: by the way, they think like Hollywood is like anti-Christian 735 00:39:53,025 --> 00:39:55,964 Speaker 2: and when I, when I, you know, did my stint 736 00:39:56,205 --> 00:39:58,865 Speaker 2: working for Mark Burnett. One of the things that was 737 00:39:58,905 --> 00:40:01,665 Speaker 2: very apparent to me, it was like, Hollywood isn't like anti-Christian. 738 00:40:02,345 --> 00:40:06,725 Speaker 2: Hollywood was just pro success. Like, you know, it's a 739 00:40:06,745 --> 00:40:10,295 Speaker 2: business if it works and it's world-class. Like, and that's 740 00:40:10,355 --> 00:40:12,735 Speaker 2: one of the things Jerry Falls senior taught me at Liberty. 741 00:40:13,235 --> 00:40:16,335 Speaker 2: It's like, if it's Christian because it's Christian, it ought 742 00:40:16,355 --> 00:40:19,614 Speaker 2: to be better. And, and I just think the world 743 00:40:19,675 --> 00:40:23,485 Speaker 2: is open to us and, and, Everybody listening to us 744 00:40:23,525 --> 00:40:26,425 Speaker 2: can have a lot more diverse relationships and friendships, but 745 00:40:26,445 --> 00:40:27,525 Speaker 2: you just got to lean into it. 746 00:40:28,825 --> 00:40:31,765 Speaker 1: I think our Jewish friends also are really seeing more 747 00:40:31,805 --> 00:40:36,665 Speaker 1: than ever that we truly are their actual friend, and 748 00:40:36,705 --> 00:40:39,105 Speaker 1: we really care about them. And we show it in 749 00:40:39,145 --> 00:40:44,315 Speaker 1: tangible ways. Recently, we raised money, $ 300, 000, to buy an 750 00:40:44,335 --> 00:40:50,525 Speaker 1: armored ambulance for the state of Israel. which we did 751 00:40:50,545 --> 00:40:54,225 Speaker 1: it with Franklin Graham and Samaritan's Purse because Franklin had 752 00:40:54,265 --> 00:40:57,325 Speaker 1: a conversation with the president of Israel. And he said, 753 00:40:57,365 --> 00:40:59,844 Speaker 1: what do you need right now? We need armored ambulances 754 00:41:00,445 --> 00:41:05,565 Speaker 1: because the enemy Hamas and others were targeting ambulances. So 755 00:41:05,905 --> 00:41:09,965 Speaker 1: these are basically like tanks with medical supplies and the 756 00:41:10,025 --> 00:41:13,405 Speaker 1: functions of an ambulance. And so we raised the money 757 00:41:13,585 --> 00:41:17,955 Speaker 1: and I went to Jerusalem and we had a dedication ceremony, uh, 758 00:41:18,825 --> 00:41:24,185 Speaker 1: Huckabee was there, our ambassador, and some Israeli officials. And 759 00:41:24,265 --> 00:41:26,395 Speaker 1: so I was asked to give a little talk, and 760 00:41:26,415 --> 00:41:28,955 Speaker 1: I told them, you know, I'm giving this to you 761 00:41:28,995 --> 00:41:31,415 Speaker 1: in the name of Jesus Christ. We're a church. On 762 00:41:31,455 --> 00:41:33,095 Speaker 1: the side of it, it says, given to you by 763 00:41:33,135 --> 00:41:37,614 Speaker 1: your friends at Harvest Christian Fellowship. We have Jeremiah 29, 11. 764 00:41:37,615 --> 00:41:39,495 Speaker 1: I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says 765 00:41:39,535 --> 00:41:41,805 Speaker 1: the Lord. Thoughts of peace, not of evil, to give 766 00:41:41,845 --> 00:41:45,305 Speaker 1: you a future life. And I told him my testimony. 767 00:41:45,385 --> 00:41:48,945 Speaker 1: I was a confused young kid using drugs, going the 768 00:41:48,985 --> 00:41:51,485 Speaker 1: wrong way in life. And I heard about Jesus. But 769 00:41:51,565 --> 00:41:54,594 Speaker 1: when I became a Christian, I began to read the Bible. 770 00:41:54,975 --> 00:41:57,535 Speaker 1: And I began to learn the history of the Jewish people. 771 00:41:58,095 --> 00:42:02,655 Speaker 1: And I began to learn how Jewish of a Bible 772 00:42:02,715 --> 00:42:06,115 Speaker 1: this is and our culture is, our roots are. And 773 00:42:06,555 --> 00:42:09,614 Speaker 1: so I think they're seeing we really care about them 774 00:42:10,135 --> 00:42:12,555 Speaker 1: so much. And we're showing this to them more and more. 775 00:42:13,295 --> 00:42:16,915 Speaker 1: And it does open the door for conversations about how 776 00:42:16,955 --> 00:42:19,335 Speaker 1: they too can come to Christ. I know a lady, 777 00:42:19,455 --> 00:42:24,835 Speaker 1: she's Jewish, and we had many conversations. And she just 778 00:42:25,055 --> 00:42:28,094 Speaker 1: could not bring herself to ask Jesus to come into 779 00:42:28,115 --> 00:42:30,735 Speaker 1: her life. She felt it would be a betrayal of 780 00:42:30,815 --> 00:42:37,205 Speaker 1: her mother. And so, tragically, this lady got COVID, and 781 00:42:37,265 --> 00:42:39,864 Speaker 1: she was dying in the hospital. I wanted to go 782 00:42:39,945 --> 00:42:41,685 Speaker 1: see her, but I couldn't get in to see her 783 00:42:41,745 --> 00:42:44,605 Speaker 1: because I hadn't had a COVID test in the period 784 00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:49,185 Speaker 1: of time required. So a wonderful nurse held a phone 785 00:42:49,245 --> 00:42:51,965 Speaker 1: up to her face, and I had a conversation with 786 00:42:52,005 --> 00:42:56,545 Speaker 1: her on FaceTime. And her name was Frankie. And I said, Frankie, 787 00:42:56,565 --> 00:42:59,665 Speaker 1: we've talked about this many times. And I could see 788 00:42:59,685 --> 00:43:02,305 Speaker 1: the fear in her eyes. She was facing death. And 789 00:43:02,345 --> 00:43:05,185 Speaker 1: I said, would you like to ask Jesus to be 790 00:43:05,225 --> 00:43:07,825 Speaker 1: your Messiah and ask him into your life? She said, yes. 791 00:43:08,475 --> 00:43:10,255 Speaker 1: And I led her in a prayer, and she went 792 00:43:10,295 --> 00:43:12,875 Speaker 1: to be with the Lord shortly after that. But we'd 793 00:43:12,915 --> 00:43:17,175 Speaker 1: done all the conversations and bridge building prior to that, 794 00:43:17,195 --> 00:43:20,035 Speaker 1: and she was ready to make that decision. But, you know, 795 00:43:20,055 --> 00:43:22,995 Speaker 1: we just want our Jewish friends to know. I met 796 00:43:23,035 --> 00:43:26,915 Speaker 1: some guys that work over at the university in Haifa, 797 00:43:27,435 --> 00:43:30,895 Speaker 1: and there are teachers there in the Jewish university. And 798 00:43:31,435 --> 00:43:34,685 Speaker 1: I said, I think sometimes you may think that the 799 00:43:34,745 --> 00:43:38,105 Speaker 1: only reason we support Israel is we want Armageddon to come, 800 00:43:38,605 --> 00:43:41,825 Speaker 1: or we want the apocalypse to come. I said, nothing 801 00:43:41,845 --> 00:43:43,925 Speaker 1: could be further from the truth. We pray for the 802 00:43:43,985 --> 00:43:46,805 Speaker 1: peace of Jerusalem, and we care about you. And yes, 803 00:43:46,875 --> 00:43:49,995 Speaker 1: we believe Christ is coming one day. We don't deny that. 804 00:43:50,435 --> 00:43:53,175 Speaker 1: We believe you being in the land is a fulfillment 805 00:43:53,215 --> 00:43:57,035 Speaker 1: of Bible prophecy. We don't deny that either. And yes, 806 00:43:57,115 --> 00:43:59,495 Speaker 1: we want you to believe in Jesus, nor do we 807 00:43:59,555 --> 00:44:03,375 Speaker 1: deny that. But we love you, and you're God's chosen people, 808 00:44:03,395 --> 00:44:06,775 Speaker 1: and we've been crafted into the promises of Abraham, Isaac, 809 00:44:06,815 --> 00:44:10,575 Speaker 1: and Jacob as non-Jews, Gentiles. And I think, I don't 810 00:44:10,595 --> 00:44:11,975 Speaker 1: know if they'd ever heard that before. 811 00:44:12,155 --> 00:44:16,795 Speaker 2: You know, I get asked so often, like, why is 812 00:44:16,895 --> 00:44:21,145 Speaker 2: it that evangelicals, 700 million of us around the world, 813 00:44:22,725 --> 00:44:27,225 Speaker 2: why we stand with a Jewish community? And especially now, 814 00:44:27,425 --> 00:44:30,985 Speaker 2: because if you've ever asked yourself, what would you have 815 00:44:31,045 --> 00:44:34,485 Speaker 2: done had you been alive during the Holocaust? And that 816 00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:36,585 Speaker 2: was some like interesting thought exercise when you were a 817 00:44:36,605 --> 00:44:38,425 Speaker 2: student in school or maybe you had the privilege of 818 00:44:38,445 --> 00:44:40,605 Speaker 2: going to Israel and visiting Yad Vashem or the Holocaust 819 00:44:40,625 --> 00:44:44,805 Speaker 2: Museum at DC. It was like an interesting thought exercise. Well, 820 00:44:45,475 --> 00:44:50,395 Speaker 2: that question requires being answered now in the world we're 821 00:44:50,415 --> 00:44:53,235 Speaker 2: living in. I mean, anti-Semitism is surging back and it's 822 00:44:53,275 --> 00:44:56,435 Speaker 2: not just surging on the far left and the Islamist left, 823 00:44:56,555 --> 00:44:59,805 Speaker 2: it's surging on the far right. Right. And people that 824 00:44:59,825 --> 00:45:01,645 Speaker 2: people used to listen to and thought that they could 825 00:45:01,685 --> 00:45:04,225 Speaker 2: trust and all of these things, like it is coming back. 826 00:45:04,665 --> 00:45:08,505 Speaker 2: And we are the great firewall between 15 million Jews 827 00:45:08,765 --> 00:45:13,865 Speaker 2: around the world and this surging evil hate that's emerging 828 00:45:13,965 --> 00:45:17,805 Speaker 2: again in history. And there are 700 million of us 829 00:45:18,125 --> 00:45:22,865 Speaker 2: and about 80% of us will stand with the Jewish community. 830 00:45:23,245 --> 00:45:26,685 Speaker 2: And we have stood when the whole world ran away 831 00:45:26,925 --> 00:45:29,615 Speaker 2: in recent years. So I get asked all the time, why? 832 00:45:29,635 --> 00:45:35,685 Speaker 2: And my answer is always the same. We're just so grateful. 833 00:45:36,145 --> 00:45:40,225 Speaker 2: Everything good in our lives, we can somehow trace back 834 00:45:40,605 --> 00:45:44,545 Speaker 2: to you, to your story, to your book. And the 835 00:45:44,585 --> 00:45:47,735 Speaker 2: best way I know how to describe it is your 836 00:45:47,795 --> 00:45:52,695 Speaker 2: book is our book. Your heroes are our heroes. We 837 00:45:52,775 --> 00:45:54,155 Speaker 2: teach our kids about your heroes. 838 00:45:54,355 --> 00:45:54,594 Speaker 1: Yes. 839 00:45:55,215 --> 00:45:59,745 Speaker 2: And while we interpret them differently very often, your values 840 00:46:00,325 --> 00:46:04,785 Speaker 2: are our values. And it is time, by the way, 841 00:46:04,905 --> 00:46:07,065 Speaker 2: for our relationship with the Jewish community to move from 842 00:46:07,085 --> 00:46:10,955 Speaker 2: being sentimental to being much more substantive because there's a 843 00:46:10,975 --> 00:46:15,975 Speaker 2: cost to it now. I'm a very prominent Christian Zionist. 844 00:46:16,315 --> 00:46:18,175 Speaker 2: I support the right of the Jewish people to live 845 00:46:18,215 --> 00:46:22,265 Speaker 2: in their historic homeland. Am I Christian Zionist? I'm has 846 00:46:22,345 --> 00:46:26,405 Speaker 2: caused threats to my life. This is a moment that 847 00:46:26,485 --> 00:46:28,745 Speaker 2: we have to decide where we're going to stand. And 848 00:46:28,765 --> 00:46:31,555 Speaker 2: we're going to have to, and I'm very proud that 849 00:46:31,575 --> 00:46:35,335 Speaker 2: when so many institutions are like failing and declining, that 850 00:46:35,435 --> 00:46:37,895 Speaker 2: our institutions are strong and we're passing this to the 851 00:46:37,935 --> 00:46:41,165 Speaker 2: next generation. But what people should understand is like this 852 00:46:41,225 --> 00:46:43,925 Speaker 2: anti-Semitism is not just an attack on the Jewish people. 853 00:46:44,545 --> 00:46:50,235 Speaker 2: It's attack on Judeo-Christian people. It's a whole superstructure, Western 854 00:46:50,275 --> 00:46:53,955 Speaker 2: civilization of the United States, of our story, of our 855 00:46:54,195 --> 00:46:58,935 Speaker 2: origin story in the Jewish community and our shared values. 856 00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:06,265 Speaker 2: And this plan will take– the way to taking down America, 857 00:47:06,605 --> 00:47:11,405 Speaker 2: the West, everything we stand for, the goal is to 858 00:47:11,445 --> 00:47:13,965 Speaker 2: eliminate the Jewish community as part of that or along 859 00:47:13,985 --> 00:47:16,225 Speaker 2: the way. And we just have to stand up. We 860 00:47:16,285 --> 00:47:20,215 Speaker 2: cannot vote– I don't care if it's your cousin that 861 00:47:20,235 --> 00:47:22,495 Speaker 2: you've known the rest of your life. You cannot vote 862 00:47:22,555 --> 00:47:28,875 Speaker 2: for anybody, left or right, that signals anti-Semitism at all whatsoever. We, 863 00:47:29,125 --> 00:47:31,825 Speaker 2: as the evangelical community, have to draw a line in 864 00:47:31,845 --> 00:47:34,325 Speaker 2: the sand and say, like, no, we will not stand 865 00:47:34,405 --> 00:47:39,225 Speaker 2: for hating the people that the Bible calls us to 866 00:47:40,105 --> 00:47:43,795 Speaker 2: love and to bless. And I'm afraid we're going to 867 00:47:43,915 --> 00:47:47,154 Speaker 2: face more and more of those tests. And these same 868 00:47:47,255 --> 00:47:50,875 Speaker 2: forces are coming after our children on social media, on TikTok, 869 00:47:51,015 --> 00:47:53,815 Speaker 2: on all of these ecosystems. They want to take over 870 00:47:53,855 --> 00:47:58,395 Speaker 2: the education of our children. And we can't let it happen. 871 00:47:58,675 --> 00:48:00,895 Speaker 2: And it begins with the pulpits in America. It begins 872 00:48:00,915 --> 00:48:05,085 Speaker 2: with our educational system. And it requires courage to speak up. 873 00:48:05,805 --> 00:48:10,965 Speaker 2: And I hope it isn't true. But most of history 874 00:48:11,745 --> 00:48:15,475 Speaker 2: for Christians– has been the story of sometimes our faith 875 00:48:15,595 --> 00:48:18,275 Speaker 2: having a cost that goes with it. It happens with 876 00:48:18,335 --> 00:48:20,795 Speaker 2: many persecuted Christians around the world. And we need to 877 00:48:20,835 --> 00:48:24,715 Speaker 2: count those costs. And one of the requirements now is 878 00:48:24,755 --> 00:48:26,795 Speaker 2: that we stand up for our Jewish neighbors as this 879 00:48:27,395 --> 00:48:28,205 Speaker 2: hate surges back. 880 00:48:29,055 --> 00:48:33,065 Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned social media. A lot of this anti-Semitic 881 00:48:33,225 --> 00:48:39,025 Speaker 1: rhetoric is amplified there. And we've had conversations about this 882 00:48:39,725 --> 00:48:44,925 Speaker 1: you know, organized bots that just appear. You'll post a 883 00:48:45,025 --> 00:48:48,525 Speaker 1: certain thing. I mean, if I post anything about Israel, hey, 884 00:48:48,545 --> 00:48:50,865 Speaker 1: I'm leading a tour to Israel. All of a sudden, 885 00:48:51,165 --> 00:48:56,515 Speaker 1: all this opposition, all of this heated, inflammatory rhetoric, like 886 00:48:56,555 --> 00:48:59,075 Speaker 1: what on earth? Who are these people? And then you click, 887 00:48:59,265 --> 00:49:03,235 Speaker 1: you're scarce. Who is this person? Three followers. Tell us, like, 888 00:49:03,695 --> 00:49:09,485 Speaker 1: are these bots? Are these bots that are organized? and orchestrated, 889 00:49:10,105 --> 00:49:14,925 Speaker 1: and then are there certain phrases or topics that trigger them? 890 00:49:15,245 --> 00:49:18,265 Speaker 1: Are these real people? Explain this to people who may 891 00:49:18,305 --> 00:49:19,105 Speaker 1: not know about this. 892 00:49:19,695 --> 00:49:21,595 Speaker 2: It's a combination of all of it. I mean, we are, 893 00:49:21,615 --> 00:49:25,395 Speaker 2: you know, the technical term for researchers who study this 894 00:49:25,415 --> 00:49:30,145 Speaker 2: is called inauthentic online behavior. And why is that the term? Because, yes, 895 00:49:30,185 --> 00:49:34,115 Speaker 2: sometimes it's bots and it's bot farms that are in 896 00:49:34,135 --> 00:49:37,095 Speaker 2: a very sophisticated way fueled by adversaries of the United States. 897 00:49:37,115 --> 00:49:39,255 Speaker 1: So define a bot farm. A bot farm is? 898 00:49:39,635 --> 00:49:42,195 Speaker 2: A bot farm is like, you know, it could be 899 00:49:42,775 --> 00:49:48,915 Speaker 2: servers operated in Pakistan or China or some country at 900 00:49:49,695 --> 00:49:53,415 Speaker 2: Iran that are spinning up fake accounts in order to 901 00:49:53,495 --> 00:49:57,685 Speaker 2: target certain content online. But it's not just that. It's 902 00:49:57,805 --> 00:50:00,565 Speaker 2: influencers that are being paid to promote certain ideas in 903 00:50:00,585 --> 00:50:04,705 Speaker 2: places like TikTok. It's also the manipulation of algorithms by 904 00:50:05,405 --> 00:50:09,345 Speaker 2: certain countries. It's all of it together. It's real fake 905 00:50:09,475 --> 00:50:12,315 Speaker 2: news where news stories are produced. 906 00:50:11,935 --> 00:50:12,235 Speaker 1: In a way. 907 00:50:12,275 --> 00:50:13,635 Speaker 2: This is one of the things that happen in Gaza 908 00:50:13,675 --> 00:50:16,385 Speaker 2: a lot. You would have There was enough suffering to 909 00:50:16,425 --> 00:50:21,685 Speaker 2: report in Gaza, but that wasn't enough. They had to 910 00:50:21,765 --> 00:50:26,515 Speaker 2: take a cinematic approach. One of the famous examples was 911 00:50:26,595 --> 00:50:29,015 Speaker 2: on the front page of the New York Times. There 912 00:50:29,035 --> 00:50:33,295 Speaker 2: was this mom standing next to an emaciated child, and 913 00:50:33,315 --> 00:50:37,205 Speaker 2: they were accusing Israel of forcibly starving the people in Gaza. 914 00:50:37,985 --> 00:50:41,445 Speaker 2: And it turns out that that photo was a cropped photo. 915 00:50:42,225 --> 00:50:48,015 Speaker 2: And the photo, which was distributed by a foreign news agency, actually, 916 00:50:48,175 --> 00:50:50,835 Speaker 2: if you scan the photo out, there was a really 917 00:50:50,895 --> 00:50:54,575 Speaker 2: healthy brother of the kid, I think, next to them, 918 00:50:54,655 --> 00:50:58,215 Speaker 2: who was fine. The mother seemed healthy. The kid actually 919 00:50:58,255 --> 00:51:02,875 Speaker 2: had a debilitating disease, right? But it was meant to 920 00:51:02,955 --> 00:51:07,225 Speaker 2: enable a political narrative, right? I think we're living in 921 00:51:07,245 --> 00:51:10,445 Speaker 2: a time where everyone is trying to sell us something 922 00:51:10,585 --> 00:51:13,445 Speaker 2: in order to advance their agenda. And it's happening a 923 00:51:13,465 --> 00:51:17,325 Speaker 2: lot online. It's happening entirely online. The problem is, is 924 00:51:17,385 --> 00:51:20,685 Speaker 2: people actually do eventually, eventually start believing these things and 925 00:51:20,705 --> 00:51:23,485 Speaker 2: people aren't educated on stuff. People don't know history either. 926 00:51:23,685 --> 00:51:25,305 Speaker 2: They don't know how the country works. They don't know. 927 00:51:25,445 --> 00:51:28,065 Speaker 2: They don't, they don't know about separation of powers and 928 00:51:28,085 --> 00:51:30,384 Speaker 2: the electoral college. They don't know. They don't know that, 929 00:51:31,005 --> 00:51:33,805 Speaker 2: you know, the prime, one of the primary propaganda, um, 930 00:51:34,385 --> 00:51:36,905 Speaker 2: efforts of the Soviet Union during the Cold War was 931 00:51:36,925 --> 00:51:40,445 Speaker 2: to promote Zionism as racism. You can go back to 932 00:51:40,465 --> 00:51:44,995 Speaker 2: the 1970s, look at the South African prime minister or 933 00:51:45,035 --> 00:51:49,535 Speaker 2: president speaking in the UN General Assembly. He gave a 934 00:51:49,575 --> 00:51:52,835 Speaker 2: speech saying that Zionism was racism, calling for the elimination 935 00:51:52,855 --> 00:51:54,735 Speaker 2: of the state of Israel. This is in the 1970s. 936 00:51:55,615 --> 00:51:59,495 Speaker 2: He receives a standing ovation. The United States ambassador, who 937 00:51:59,575 --> 00:52:03,735 Speaker 2: is a Democrat, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, condemned it as the 938 00:52:04,015 --> 00:52:07,515 Speaker 2: as the most the the most morally awful moment in 939 00:52:07,535 --> 00:52:09,235 Speaker 2: the united nations and then what did the united nations 940 00:52:09,255 --> 00:52:12,455 Speaker 2: do instead of condemning it they held a banquet in 941 00:52:12,655 --> 00:52:15,535 Speaker 2: honor of of of this person on on the same 942 00:52:15,575 --> 00:52:18,225 Speaker 2: evening so like if you know history and you watch 943 00:52:18,265 --> 00:52:21,465 Speaker 2: all this zionism is racism propaganda pop up again you 944 00:52:21,485 --> 00:52:24,525 Speaker 2: know all the anti-zionism fueling political races the united states 945 00:52:24,545 --> 00:52:26,805 Speaker 2: and all these places you're like huh that sort of 946 00:52:26,865 --> 00:52:29,315 Speaker 2: rhymes with something It kind of looks like the last 947 00:52:29,375 --> 00:52:33,575 Speaker 2: time a foreign adversary tried to divide our democracy on 948 00:52:33,615 --> 00:52:37,165 Speaker 2: foreign policy a generation ago. And so there's also very 949 00:52:37,205 --> 00:52:39,785 Speaker 2: sophisticated propaganda, and it leads to a place. And the 950 00:52:39,805 --> 00:52:42,385 Speaker 2: whole purpose of this is– it has two purposes. One 951 00:52:42,425 --> 00:52:45,924 Speaker 2: purpose is to intimidate us, to cause us to fear 952 00:52:45,965 --> 00:52:49,205 Speaker 2: to speak our mind. And I can tell you, as 953 00:52:49,475 --> 00:52:52,594 Speaker 2: someone who's– I've had my house graffitied in the middle 954 00:52:52,615 --> 00:52:56,384 Speaker 2: of the night. I've had– One time I had over 955 00:52:56,385 --> 00:53:01,265 Speaker 2: 60 protesters show up at our home. I've had countless 956 00:53:01,285 --> 00:53:05,765 Speaker 2: threats on my life for my fighting against anti-Semitism on 957 00:53:05,805 --> 00:53:09,815 Speaker 2: the right and the left. I spent months under 24-7 958 00:53:09,875 --> 00:53:15,775 Speaker 2: protection a year ago. It's meant to intimidate us, to 959 00:53:15,835 --> 00:53:19,325 Speaker 2: cause us to be quiet. It's meant to stigmatize us. 960 00:53:20,335 --> 00:53:22,495 Speaker 2: And we just can't do it. God has not given 961 00:53:22,535 --> 00:53:24,595 Speaker 2: us a spirit of fear, but a power and love 962 00:53:24,655 --> 00:53:27,015 Speaker 2: and of a sound mind. Every one of those words matters. 963 00:53:27,055 --> 00:53:30,455 Speaker 2: The first one puts fear off the table. And we 964 00:53:30,495 --> 00:53:33,154 Speaker 2: have the power of the Holy Spirit that has stared 965 00:53:33,195 --> 00:53:36,965 Speaker 2: down a lot of really, really hard situations in history. 966 00:53:39,085 --> 00:53:45,065 Speaker 2: Balanced by love, we have to also love even our enemies, 967 00:53:45,325 --> 00:53:50,105 Speaker 2: which is hard to do sometimes. And rational sound thinking 968 00:53:50,565 --> 00:53:53,765 Speaker 2: yeah what are the facts yes and if you just 969 00:53:53,805 --> 00:53:56,185 Speaker 2: hear there's a genocide in gaza again and again and 970 00:53:56,225 --> 00:53:57,945 Speaker 2: again and all of a sudden it's the cause du 971 00:53:57,985 --> 00:54:00,825 Speaker 2: jour of the moment but no like genocide means something 972 00:54:00,905 --> 00:54:03,435 Speaker 2: yeah okay and was what was this and you study 973 00:54:03,455 --> 00:54:05,875 Speaker 2: it and you so it's meant to intimidate us yeah 974 00:54:06,455 --> 00:54:08,595 Speaker 2: and and i'm sorry to say but like many pastors 975 00:54:08,775 --> 00:54:11,455 Speaker 2: are the most intimidated people on the planet what do 976 00:54:11,475 --> 00:54:14,115 Speaker 2: you think that is i i think it's uh that 977 00:54:14,295 --> 00:54:17,345 Speaker 2: that I think it's in the book of Colossians where 978 00:54:17,845 --> 00:54:21,205 Speaker 2: Paul writes that if you care about the opinions of people, 979 00:54:22,505 --> 00:54:25,705 Speaker 2: you cannot be a servant of Jesus. And I just 980 00:54:25,725 --> 00:54:28,545 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of cultural pressure to just be 981 00:54:29,165 --> 00:54:33,435 Speaker 2: accepted in society, to be like, you know, to not 982 00:54:33,475 --> 00:54:37,134 Speaker 2: be controversial. It's not fun being controversial. But if you're 983 00:54:37,155 --> 00:54:39,094 Speaker 2: going to decide what you believe or who you are 984 00:54:40,015 --> 00:54:43,105 Speaker 2: based upon whether it's controversial or not, you like, number one, 985 00:54:43,115 --> 00:54:46,205 Speaker 2: you can't follow Jesus. Number two, you know, you're going 986 00:54:46,225 --> 00:54:48,745 Speaker 2: to be nothing, believe nothing and do nothing with your life. 987 00:54:49,365 --> 00:54:51,205 Speaker 2: And also the fruit of the spirit balances all that. 988 00:54:51,245 --> 00:54:53,465 Speaker 2: Like that doesn't mean you have permission to be a jerk. 989 00:54:53,825 --> 00:54:54,045 Speaker 1: Okay. 990 00:54:54,085 --> 00:54:55,085 Speaker 2: In fact, quite the opposite. 991 00:54:55,105 --> 00:54:55,175 Speaker 1: Yes. 992 00:54:55,185 --> 00:54:56,575 Speaker 2: You know, you're going to have the fruit of the 993 00:54:56,605 --> 00:54:58,535 Speaker 2: spirit and that's what people get wrong on the other side. 994 00:54:59,075 --> 00:54:59,255 Speaker 1: Yeah. 995 00:54:59,355 --> 00:55:00,635 Speaker 2: It has to all be in the pipe, but it 996 00:55:00,695 --> 00:55:02,715 Speaker 2: is meant to intimidate us. And the second thing is, 997 00:55:03,255 --> 00:55:05,255 Speaker 2: you know, the reason why this stuff happens is that 998 00:55:05,335 --> 00:55:09,175 Speaker 2: it's also meant to deceive us. It's harder to deceive 999 00:55:09,575 --> 00:55:12,385 Speaker 2: you and I, right? Because like we're well read on 1000 00:55:12,405 --> 00:55:17,505 Speaker 2: all these things and we, and we, you know, we 1001 00:55:17,525 --> 00:55:22,765 Speaker 2: know stuff. So they don't really try to deceive us. They, 1002 00:55:23,205 --> 00:55:27,825 Speaker 2: and this is sinister, they try to deceive our children. 1003 00:55:27,845 --> 00:55:28,305 Speaker 1: That's right. 1004 00:55:30,665 --> 00:55:37,845 Speaker 2: And that should be causing all of us to be 1005 00:55:37,865 --> 00:55:40,665 Speaker 2: doing everything in our power to make sure that we're 1006 00:55:40,705 --> 00:55:42,005 Speaker 2: protecting our kids. 1007 00:55:42,365 --> 00:55:42,585 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1008 00:55:43,445 --> 00:55:45,865 Speaker 2: And that might mean starting a school in your community 1009 00:55:45,885 --> 00:55:47,864 Speaker 2: because you don't have any good ones. It might mean 1010 00:55:47,905 --> 00:55:50,025 Speaker 2: that you're pastor of a church, you lose a certain 1011 00:55:50,065 --> 00:55:52,585 Speaker 2: percentage of your people because you're not tickling everyone's ears 1012 00:55:52,605 --> 00:55:56,945 Speaker 2: all the time. It might mean that you stand up 1013 00:55:57,005 --> 00:56:00,965 Speaker 2: against the prevailing winds and whatever political, whatever you're involved in. 1014 00:56:01,565 --> 00:56:04,845 Speaker 2: It might mean you get criticized online. It might sometimes 1015 00:56:04,925 --> 00:56:10,745 Speaker 2: mean it gets dangerous. I didn't choose when I was alive. 1016 00:56:12,045 --> 00:56:16,045 Speaker 2: This is my time That's right. And we have to 1017 00:56:16,085 --> 00:56:16,845 Speaker 2: rise to our moment. 1018 00:56:17,165 --> 00:56:20,755 Speaker 1: That's right. Now we have AI. Okay, add that to 1019 00:56:20,775 --> 00:56:24,535 Speaker 1: the mix. Okay, with all of this weaponization online, we 1020 00:56:24,555 --> 00:56:28,215 Speaker 1: have AI. And we hear, well, right now you hear 1021 00:56:28,615 --> 00:56:30,844 Speaker 1: some of the leaders of some of these companies saying, 1022 00:56:31,205 --> 00:56:36,904 Speaker 1: telling us that anthropic open AI meta, hey, this could 1023 00:56:36,945 --> 00:56:41,005 Speaker 1: destroy the world, and we need government intervention. I'm thinking, really? 1024 00:56:41,165 --> 00:56:42,905 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the answer? Have you been to the 1025 00:56:43,285 --> 00:56:47,255 Speaker 1: DMV lately? You want the government to manage? Do they 1026 00:56:47,295 --> 00:56:50,015 Speaker 1: even know how to set up their Facebook page? I 1027 00:56:50,055 --> 00:56:53,175 Speaker 1: don't know. Okay, so that's one extreme. And then the 1028 00:56:53,235 --> 00:56:58,094 Speaker 1: president recently said that AI is bigger than the industrial revolution. 1029 00:56:58,475 --> 00:57:01,415 Speaker 1: We need to lead the way on this, etc., So 1030 00:57:02,125 --> 00:57:04,985 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about, cause I know you, you've 1031 00:57:05,285 --> 00:57:08,705 Speaker 1: met people who are leaders in these fields and, and 1032 00:57:08,745 --> 00:57:12,345 Speaker 1: I know you're aware of what's happening. How should a 1033 00:57:12,445 --> 00:57:16,525 Speaker 1: Christian react to AI? Is this a good thing? Is 1034 00:57:16,545 --> 00:57:18,965 Speaker 1: this a bad thing? Is it both at the same time? 1035 00:57:19,045 --> 00:57:19,525 Speaker 1: What is it? 1036 00:57:20,945 --> 00:57:24,095 Speaker 2: Um, it's a blessing. Let's start there. 1037 00:57:24,695 --> 00:57:24,955 Speaker 1: Okay. 1038 00:57:25,215 --> 00:57:28,315 Speaker 2: There's a, um, there's a famous story in early American 1039 00:57:28,335 --> 00:57:31,885 Speaker 2: history where, um, uh, Benjamin Franklin. 1040 00:57:33,145 --> 00:57:36,265 Speaker 1: I knew him personally. I'm quite old now. 1041 00:57:37,105 --> 00:57:39,665 Speaker 2: Benjamin Franklin invented the lightning rod. 1042 00:57:39,745 --> 00:57:40,525 Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. 1043 00:57:41,005 --> 00:57:44,775 Speaker 2: Which is really important because lightning was striking houses and 1044 00:57:44,955 --> 00:57:48,475 Speaker 2: ships and church steeples because they were the highest thing 1045 00:57:48,495 --> 00:57:51,695 Speaker 2: in the city, like burning churches down. And by the way, 1046 00:57:51,735 --> 00:57:54,095 Speaker 2: creating all these conspiracy theories because lightning was viewed as 1047 00:57:54,135 --> 00:57:55,075 Speaker 2: an act of God. 1048 00:57:55,195 --> 00:57:56,295 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Okay. 1049 00:57:56,435 --> 00:57:58,485 Speaker 2: So Benjamin Franklin creates the lightning rod and then he 1050 00:57:58,525 --> 00:58:01,785 Speaker 2: calls it a gift from God. Hmm. And then a 1051 00:58:01,825 --> 00:58:04,205 Speaker 2: couple of years later in Philadelphia, there was a big 1052 00:58:04,245 --> 00:58:08,085 Speaker 2: earthquake and it ransacked the city. And there was a 1053 00:58:08,165 --> 00:58:15,505 Speaker 2: pastor who said it was God punishing Philadelphia for creating 1054 00:58:15,825 --> 00:58:20,205 Speaker 2: the lightning rod to defy God's power. And then another 1055 00:58:20,245 --> 00:58:24,575 Speaker 2: famous preacher, John Winthrop from Harvard, a very different Harvard 1056 00:58:24,755 --> 00:58:29,035 Speaker 2: than Harvard we know today. John Winthrop said, no. He said, 1057 00:58:29,715 --> 00:58:35,725 Speaker 2: when man discovers something like this, it is a compliment 1058 00:58:35,765 --> 00:58:38,555 Speaker 2: to God. It is an admiration of his creation. And 1059 00:58:38,655 --> 00:58:41,075 Speaker 2: I think we're in a very similar moment where we are, 1060 00:58:41,295 --> 00:58:44,235 Speaker 2: you know, what is AI? What is a large language model? 1061 00:58:44,875 --> 00:58:50,335 Speaker 2: A large language model is like OpenAI's ChatGPT or Claude's Anthropic, 1062 00:58:50,955 --> 00:58:54,315 Speaker 2: you know, NewsClaud. It is a word predictor. 1063 00:58:55,195 --> 00:58:55,415 Speaker 1: Okay. 1064 00:58:55,475 --> 00:58:57,495 Speaker 2: It literally, they literally put all the words they could 1065 00:58:57,515 --> 00:58:59,935 Speaker 2: possibly get everything on the internet, all these books, everything. 1066 00:59:00,035 --> 00:59:02,425 Speaker 2: And it predicts the next word. That's the oversimplified version. 1067 00:59:02,485 --> 00:59:04,865 Speaker 2: It just predicts the next word. Okay. That's what these 1068 00:59:04,905 --> 00:59:07,565 Speaker 2: things are. And with more compute, they can do more 1069 00:59:07,605 --> 00:59:10,875 Speaker 2: and more, more and more things. And it's also kind 1070 00:59:10,895 --> 00:59:14,515 Speaker 2: of amazing because the super intelligence, if you ask the 1071 00:59:14,555 --> 00:59:17,715 Speaker 2: president of the United States or or artificial intelligence, what 1072 00:59:17,795 --> 00:59:21,865 Speaker 2: is it? It's like holding a mirror to every word 1073 00:59:21,985 --> 00:59:25,465 Speaker 2: ever written in human history. And we're seeing things about 1074 00:59:25,585 --> 00:59:29,245 Speaker 2: intelligence that we didn't understand before. And we're solving problems 1075 00:59:29,265 --> 00:59:30,925 Speaker 2: we couldn't solve before because we could put like. 1076 00:59:31,065 --> 00:59:32,885 Speaker 1: What would be an example of a problem that's been 1077 00:59:32,905 --> 00:59:33,805 Speaker 1: solved with AI technology? 1078 00:59:34,225 --> 00:59:36,925 Speaker 2: I mean, uh, just, just, uh, a few weeks ago, um, 1079 00:59:36,945 --> 00:59:39,145 Speaker 2: there was a mathematical problem that was thought to not 1080 00:59:39,185 --> 00:59:39,765 Speaker 2: be solvable. 1081 00:59:39,785 --> 00:59:40,985 Speaker 1: Yes. I heard about that. 1082 00:59:41,085 --> 00:59:44,515 Speaker 2: They, they used a hundred and I think 180 billion tokens. 1083 00:59:45,015 --> 00:59:48,635 Speaker 2: That's like, that's like a human being working eight hours 1084 00:59:48,675 --> 00:59:50,035 Speaker 2: a day for 4,000 years. 1085 00:59:50,235 --> 00:59:50,455 Speaker 1: Wow. 1086 00:59:51,695 --> 00:59:53,115 Speaker 2: And solve the problem in a weekend. 1087 00:59:53,475 --> 00:59:54,195 Speaker 1: Huh. Okay. 1088 00:59:54,765 --> 00:59:56,865 Speaker 2: We are, we are, we are in the process of 1089 00:59:57,025 --> 01:00:00,965 Speaker 2: curing diseases or making diseases matter. We, we are, we 1090 01:00:01,005 --> 01:00:04,595 Speaker 2: are on the precipice in a few years. Um, It 1091 01:00:04,635 --> 01:00:06,515 Speaker 2: will very likely be in a few years that almost 1092 01:00:06,775 --> 01:00:12,275 Speaker 2: all cancers can be managed as not life-threatening, but like 1093 01:00:12,375 --> 01:00:15,715 Speaker 2: managed health, you know, for the rest. These are all 1094 01:00:15,755 --> 01:00:17,715 Speaker 2: things that are going to happen. Like this is a blessing. 1095 01:00:18,855 --> 01:00:22,705 Speaker 2: But there are two schools in this conversation. The school 1096 01:00:22,725 --> 01:00:25,765 Speaker 2: of the alarmist and the school of the accelerationist. So 1097 01:00:25,785 --> 01:00:27,345 Speaker 2: the alarmist are the world is going to end. We 1098 01:00:27,365 --> 01:00:28,985 Speaker 2: have to watch out. And you know what? They're not wrong. 1099 01:00:29,265 --> 01:00:29,445 Speaker 1: Okay. 1100 01:00:30,265 --> 01:00:33,285 Speaker 2: Cyber security is an issue. You can lose control. You can, 1101 01:00:33,505 --> 01:00:35,885 Speaker 2: adversaries can hack into things. Like there are all kinds 1102 01:00:35,925 --> 01:00:38,225 Speaker 2: of bad things. You put this technology in the hands 1103 01:00:38,265 --> 01:00:42,495 Speaker 2: of an authoritarian power. Yeah. And it's almost impossible to defeat. 1104 01:00:42,815 --> 01:00:44,715 Speaker 2: There's a lot of things to be scared about. And 1105 01:00:44,735 --> 01:00:46,515 Speaker 2: then the accelerations, and they say like, we got to 1106 01:00:46,555 --> 01:00:48,255 Speaker 2: win and we got to win at all costs. The 1107 01:00:48,315 --> 01:00:50,515 Speaker 2: U S has to beat China. And it is exactly 1108 01:00:50,555 --> 01:00:51,935 Speaker 2: right because we're going to live in a free world 1109 01:00:51,955 --> 01:00:54,955 Speaker 2: or an authoritarian world. Cause whoever wins AI wins the future. 1110 01:00:55,575 --> 01:00:57,195 Speaker 2: And they want you to be on either side. And 1111 01:00:57,215 --> 01:01:00,285 Speaker 2: what I say is I'm on both sides. Mm-hmm. We 1112 01:01:00,305 --> 01:01:02,465 Speaker 2: have to accelerate and we have to win. And that's 1113 01:01:02,665 --> 01:01:04,665 Speaker 2: been the story of America, this blessed country. And by 1114 01:01:04,685 --> 01:01:06,425 Speaker 2: the way, Israel too, like, you know, so much of 1115 01:01:06,465 --> 01:01:09,205 Speaker 2: our technology comes from Israel. And we have to do 1116 01:01:09,225 --> 01:01:11,115 Speaker 2: it in a way where we're not going to break 1117 01:01:11,175 --> 01:01:13,795 Speaker 2: the world. And that's where moral voices are really important. 1118 01:01:13,835 --> 01:01:15,675 Speaker 2: And that's where so many people in Silicon Valley that 1119 01:01:15,695 --> 01:01:18,735 Speaker 2: you never imagined would care about hearing from Christians. They're 1120 01:01:18,815 --> 01:01:24,625 Speaker 2: calling us all the time. Because science has collided with 1121 01:01:24,665 --> 01:01:25,265 Speaker 2: the questions. 1122 01:01:25,345 --> 01:01:28,845 Speaker 1: Okay, because I know from our own conversations that We 1123 01:01:28,875 --> 01:01:31,515 Speaker 1: don't have to identify what company it is. One of 1124 01:01:31,575 --> 01:01:35,915 Speaker 1: the major players. You've been talking with them. Is this 1125 01:01:35,955 --> 01:01:39,075 Speaker 1: an illustration of that? They're actually saying, how should we 1126 01:01:39,135 --> 01:01:41,675 Speaker 1: approach this? Because I think of the words of John Adams, 1127 01:01:41,755 --> 01:01:44,115 Speaker 1: which he said to me personally. I'm joking. But John 1128 01:01:44,175 --> 01:01:48,595 Speaker 1: Adams said that our Constitution was made for a moral 1129 01:01:48,735 --> 01:01:52,155 Speaker 1: and religious people. So if we were to update that today, 1130 01:01:52,195 --> 01:01:55,475 Speaker 1: we might say it's made for a Christian people. They 1131 01:01:55,495 --> 01:01:59,635 Speaker 1: would use the word religion interchangeably. you know, with Christianity. So, 1132 01:01:59,955 --> 01:02:03,555 Speaker 1: in other words, we built this country on certain principles. 1133 01:02:03,595 --> 01:02:06,755 Speaker 1: We call them Judeo-Christian. This is why they work. This 1134 01:02:06,875 --> 01:02:09,955 Speaker 1: is why our Constitution is unique. This is why our 1135 01:02:09,995 --> 01:02:13,055 Speaker 1: nation is unique. This is why it's worked so well 1136 01:02:13,125 --> 01:02:16,845 Speaker 1: for so long, and why people are attacking those very foundations, 1137 01:02:16,865 --> 01:02:20,295 Speaker 1: because that is what gives us our strength, our parameters, 1138 01:02:20,375 --> 01:02:23,675 Speaker 1: et cetera. So it almost seems like these guys, they 1139 01:02:23,735 --> 01:02:26,795 Speaker 1: need that moral and spiritual foundation. 1140 01:02:26,855 --> 01:02:29,645 Speaker 2: They're asking for it. I mean, you might say there's 1141 01:02:29,685 --> 01:02:33,085 Speaker 2: a peace treaty between religion and science. And how did 1142 01:02:33,105 --> 01:02:35,725 Speaker 2: it happen? I'm sorry to say it's not because of us. 1143 01:02:36,585 --> 01:02:39,275 Speaker 2: It happened because of the science. The science of AI- 1144 01:02:40,695 --> 01:02:44,175 Speaker 2: with the questions that were left to the theologians, the pastors, 1145 01:02:44,215 --> 01:02:45,955 Speaker 2: the philosophers. What is a human being? 1146 01:02:45,995 --> 01:02:46,775 Speaker 1: What is intelligence? 1147 01:02:46,795 --> 01:02:49,175 Speaker 2: What is agency? Not what can I do? What should 1148 01:02:49,255 --> 01:02:52,655 Speaker 2: I do? And yeah, that's what's happening. And it's not 1149 01:02:52,675 --> 01:02:55,785 Speaker 2: just one company. It's all of the companies. And they're 1150 01:02:55,825 --> 01:02:58,765 Speaker 2: like desperate for, and what I say to them is like, 1151 01:02:59,145 --> 01:03:01,245 Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to be religious like me 1152 01:03:02,185 --> 01:03:07,205 Speaker 2: to think of religion like mine, Christianity. It's like wisdom 1153 01:03:07,725 --> 01:03:09,455 Speaker 2: compounding through the centuries. 1154 01:03:09,515 --> 01:03:09,755 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1155 01:03:10,025 --> 01:03:11,385 Speaker 2: And there's a lot we have to say about all this. 1156 01:03:11,525 --> 01:03:14,125 Speaker 2: And also, Greg, I think we have an advantage. Because 1157 01:03:14,145 --> 01:03:18,205 Speaker 2: remember I said that these models are word predictors. By 1158 01:03:18,225 --> 01:03:20,655 Speaker 2: the way, when the original AI scientists, they thought they 1159 01:03:20,695 --> 01:03:23,955 Speaker 2: would come to artificial intelligence through images. So you can 1160 01:03:24,055 --> 01:03:26,035 Speaker 2: go read and study about that. And it turns out 1161 01:03:26,075 --> 01:03:28,755 Speaker 2: that it was all about words. You just put enough 1162 01:03:28,815 --> 01:03:33,395 Speaker 2: words in the system, give it enough compute, and it 1163 01:03:33,435 --> 01:03:36,665 Speaker 2: gets smarter and smarter and smarter and smarter. And I 1164 01:03:36,705 --> 01:03:39,455 Speaker 2: don't quite know how to interpret it yet. But all 1165 01:03:39,515 --> 01:03:44,555 Speaker 2: I can think of is John chapter 1, verse 1. 1166 01:03:44,555 --> 01:03:47,015 Speaker 2: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was 1167 01:03:47,055 --> 01:03:49,065 Speaker 2: with God, and the Word was God, and the Word 1168 01:03:49,125 --> 01:03:53,065 Speaker 2: became flesh, and it dwelt among us. We are a 1169 01:03:53,685 --> 01:03:59,505 Speaker 2: Word-based religion. In a time where words, it's like the 1170 01:03:59,565 --> 01:04:03,145 Speaker 2: incredible apologetic, like affirming the first verse of the New Testament, 1171 01:04:03,805 --> 01:04:08,025 Speaker 2: of the book of John. That it actually is words 1172 01:04:08,205 --> 01:04:08,925 Speaker 2: that hold it all together. 1173 01:04:09,755 --> 01:04:12,055 Speaker 1: I love how you summed this up, Johnny, when you 1174 01:04:12,095 --> 01:04:16,575 Speaker 1: said the folks who are leaders in AI development, it's 1175 01:04:16,615 --> 01:04:19,015 Speaker 1: not so much what can they do, but what should 1176 01:04:19,055 --> 01:04:20,635 Speaker 1: they do? Yeah. 1177 01:04:20,915 --> 01:04:22,265 Speaker 2: And also it's what should we be doing? 1178 01:04:22,395 --> 01:04:22,625 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1179 01:04:22,935 --> 01:04:25,065 Speaker 2: And I think the people listening to us, like, don't 1180 01:04:25,105 --> 01:04:25,685 Speaker 2: fear AI. 1181 01:04:26,145 --> 01:04:28,045 Speaker 1: Use AI. Right. 1182 01:04:28,545 --> 01:04:31,825 Speaker 2: I actually don't think it's going to be a jobs apocalypse. 1183 01:04:31,865 --> 01:04:33,505 Speaker 2: I think it's the exact opposite. I think we're going 1184 01:04:33,525 --> 01:04:35,145 Speaker 2: to see more jobs. I don't think this is a 1185 01:04:35,325 --> 01:04:38,025 Speaker 2: threat to the future. I think it's a blessing that 1186 01:04:38,065 --> 01:04:40,445 Speaker 2: God has given us. And what I always tell people 1187 01:04:40,505 --> 01:04:43,935 Speaker 2: is just like, use it. And another way, it's a blessing. 1188 01:04:43,975 --> 01:04:46,615 Speaker 2: Like if, again, if you were a kid like me 1189 01:04:46,715 --> 01:04:49,515 Speaker 2: growing up in a small town with limited access to information, 1190 01:04:49,575 --> 01:04:52,295 Speaker 2: like if you were curious about something or wanted to 1191 01:04:52,335 --> 01:04:53,595 Speaker 2: do something with your life, you had to go to 1192 01:04:53,615 --> 01:04:55,335 Speaker 2: the library and to find the books, you had to 1193 01:04:55,375 --> 01:04:58,905 Speaker 2: read things. Like what AI is doing is it's allowing 1194 01:04:59,185 --> 01:05:03,145 Speaker 2: any really, really smart kid in any small little place 1195 01:05:03,225 --> 01:05:07,585 Speaker 2: anywhere in the world to have immediate access to all 1196 01:05:07,625 --> 01:05:11,305 Speaker 2: the information. in the world. It is a great equalizer. 1197 01:05:11,765 --> 01:05:13,055 Speaker 2: And I think we have to use it. 1198 01:05:13,365 --> 01:05:13,595 Speaker 1: Use it. 1199 01:05:13,765 --> 01:05:16,805 Speaker 2: Ask it questions. Get it to help you with your finances. 1200 01:05:16,845 --> 01:05:20,885 Speaker 2: Think through your career decisions. If you're a little entrepreneurial, 1201 01:05:20,965 --> 01:05:22,425 Speaker 2: ask it to give you ideas on how to start 1202 01:05:22,445 --> 01:05:27,275 Speaker 2: a business and create the business plan. If you're a pastor, yes, 1203 01:05:27,395 --> 01:05:31,795 Speaker 2: it's an amazing illustration machine. And also, let me warn you, 1204 01:05:33,255 --> 01:05:38,255 Speaker 2: it's called cognitive offloading. If you start using AI for everything, 1205 01:05:38,855 --> 01:05:41,895 Speaker 2: Then somehow you become part of the machine. Yeah. And 1206 01:05:41,915 --> 01:05:45,915 Speaker 2: so we have to also keep writing and keep thinking 1207 01:05:46,295 --> 01:05:49,645 Speaker 2: and keep studying and keep the human part in the equation. 1208 01:05:50,025 --> 01:05:52,285 Speaker 2: And the good news is for the church is more 1209 01:05:52,405 --> 01:05:57,085 Speaker 2: and more of the future becomes digital. More and more 1210 01:05:57,165 --> 01:05:59,275 Speaker 2: becomes artificial intelligence. 1211 01:05:59,335 --> 01:05:59,555 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1212 01:06:00,145 --> 01:06:03,885 Speaker 2: Then the real human interactions are going to become more valued, 1213 01:06:04,265 --> 01:06:07,965 Speaker 2: more desired, more popular. This is a grand moment for 1214 01:06:07,985 --> 01:06:10,525 Speaker 2: the church. And by the way, business is already noticing it. 1215 01:06:10,565 --> 01:06:13,245 Speaker 2: That's why all the most successful business people in the 1216 01:06:13,265 --> 01:06:15,915 Speaker 2: world are all of a sudden buying concert venues and 1217 01:06:15,975 --> 01:06:17,975 Speaker 2: sports teams and all of these things, because they know 1218 01:06:18,055 --> 01:06:19,515 Speaker 2: people are going to be with people again. 1219 01:06:19,955 --> 01:06:22,535 Speaker 1: Right. I heard that the number one use of AI 1220 01:06:23,075 --> 01:06:27,535 Speaker 1: is therapy and companionship. So unfortunately, some people are expecting 1221 01:06:27,655 --> 01:06:31,095 Speaker 1: AI to do perhaps something what only God can do 1222 01:06:31,635 --> 01:06:34,975 Speaker 1: and what community with other humans can do. And I 1223 01:06:35,015 --> 01:06:37,595 Speaker 1: think this is where the church comes in. It's like 1224 01:06:37,615 --> 01:06:41,615 Speaker 1: we're here offering you a community, real people talking to 1225 01:06:41,675 --> 01:06:46,715 Speaker 1: real people, not everything online or bots even talking to 1226 01:06:46,835 --> 01:06:50,375 Speaker 1: us or AI giving us counsel that we really should 1227 01:06:50,415 --> 01:06:54,285 Speaker 1: be seeking from God because ultimately our standard of truth 1228 01:06:54,465 --> 01:06:58,195 Speaker 1: is the Bible. Everything submits to the Bible. That is 1229 01:06:58,275 --> 01:07:01,415 Speaker 1: God's revealed truth to all of us. And so that 1230 01:07:01,475 --> 01:07:05,955 Speaker 1: includes AI, that includes the decisions of life. And, you know, 1231 01:07:05,995 --> 01:07:08,495 Speaker 1: sometimes people may be going that direction when they should 1232 01:07:08,535 --> 01:07:14,025 Speaker 1: be turning toward the Lord who will give us supernatural wisdom. 1233 01:07:14,325 --> 01:07:16,585 Speaker 1: You know, the Bible says, if any man lacks wisdom, 1234 01:07:16,925 --> 01:07:20,965 Speaker 1: let him ask of God who will give it generously. Okay, 1235 01:07:20,985 --> 01:07:25,125 Speaker 1: so Johnny, thanks so much for your insights and wisdom today. 1236 01:07:25,575 --> 01:07:27,895 Speaker 1: You have so much to say on so many important topics. 1237 01:07:27,955 --> 01:07:30,075 Speaker 1: So how old are you now, Johnny? 1238 01:07:30,075 --> 01:07:32,975 Speaker 2: 43. Okay, 43. 1239 01:07:32,975 --> 01:07:36,185 Speaker 1: So what would an older Johnny, let's just say you're 1240 01:07:36,245 --> 01:07:39,205 Speaker 1: sitting there, you're an older, wiser Johnny, but you're still 1241 01:07:39,245 --> 01:07:41,325 Speaker 1: a very young man, by the way. I remember when 1242 01:07:41,345 --> 01:07:43,425 Speaker 1: I was in my 40s, I thought, wow, I'm really 1243 01:07:43,465 --> 01:07:46,465 Speaker 1: getting old now. But now I'm 73, and I look 1244 01:07:46,505 --> 01:07:49,885 Speaker 1: back on 40s as I was still a version of youth. 1245 01:07:50,245 --> 01:07:52,985 Speaker 1: Maybe I was a younger, older person. I think somewhere 1246 01:07:53,005 --> 01:07:57,725 Speaker 1: there's a French proverb that says, 60 is the youth 1247 01:07:57,785 --> 01:08:00,725 Speaker 1: of old age and 50 is the old age of youth. 1248 01:08:00,785 --> 01:08:02,765 Speaker 1: You know, that kind of works more or less. But 1249 01:08:02,805 --> 01:08:05,665 Speaker 1: you're still a relatively young person. If you were sitting 1250 01:08:05,725 --> 01:08:09,015 Speaker 1: across from a younger version of you, what advice would 1251 01:08:09,035 --> 01:08:09,795 Speaker 1: you give yourself? 1252 01:08:11,275 --> 01:08:17,035 Speaker 2: I would say take more risks earlier. 1253 01:08:17,515 --> 01:08:17,755 Speaker 1: Wow. 1254 01:08:18,615 --> 01:08:22,014 Speaker 2: Like not the, like good risks. 1255 01:08:22,235 --> 01:08:22,474 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1256 01:08:22,894 --> 01:08:26,314 Speaker 2: You know, I discovered, I would say... 10 years into 1257 01:08:26,335 --> 01:08:29,464 Speaker 2: my career that I, or my ministry, depending upon, I 1258 01:08:30,005 --> 01:08:32,405 Speaker 2: view it all as my ministry, but it's a bit 1259 01:08:32,445 --> 01:08:36,604 Speaker 2: of both. I discovered like later on that God wired 1260 01:08:36,665 --> 01:08:40,545 Speaker 2: me to like start things, you know? And why didn't 1261 01:08:40,564 --> 01:08:43,504 Speaker 2: I start things earlier? Because I was afraid. I was 1262 01:08:43,545 --> 01:08:46,985 Speaker 2: afraid of failure. I was afraid of, you know, because 1263 01:08:47,005 --> 01:08:49,884 Speaker 2: of my childhood and other things. So I, I think like, 1264 01:08:50,505 --> 01:08:54,195 Speaker 2: you know, do more earlier. And I, Yeah, I think 1265 01:08:54,214 --> 01:08:55,655 Speaker 2: that's one thing. There are a lot of things. 1266 01:08:56,195 --> 01:08:59,555 Speaker 1: And even if you're young and you try something and 1267 01:08:59,575 --> 01:09:02,324 Speaker 1: it fails, even that can be a learning experience. 1268 01:09:02,665 --> 01:09:03,905 Speaker 2: Actually, the best learning experience. 1269 01:09:03,924 --> 01:09:07,644 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Okay, so if you could trade places 1270 01:09:07,684 --> 01:09:11,765 Speaker 1: with any person for one day, who would it be? Oh, wow. 1271 01:09:11,785 --> 01:09:13,205 Speaker 1: That's such a hard... You could have their job. You 1272 01:09:13,224 --> 01:09:14,184 Speaker 1: could have their life. 1273 01:09:15,205 --> 01:09:17,045 Speaker 2: I would like to be Marco Rubio for one day. 1274 01:09:17,304 --> 01:09:21,094 Speaker 2: I think Marco Rubio is the single most amazing person 1275 01:09:21,394 --> 01:09:24,125 Speaker 2: on the planet. I mean, this guy... There are a 1276 01:09:24,144 --> 01:09:29,925 Speaker 2: lot of amazing people, but someone that's so principled, so 1277 01:09:29,964 --> 01:09:35,564 Speaker 2: effective at his job, so willing to kind of not 1278 01:09:35,585 --> 01:09:38,405 Speaker 2: be in the limelight at all, just quietly doing the work, 1279 01:09:38,964 --> 01:09:43,165 Speaker 2: clearly a person of deep Christian faith. I just think 1280 01:09:43,344 --> 01:09:49,205 Speaker 2: he's incredible. So on that sort of side of my life, 1281 01:09:50,045 --> 01:09:51,865 Speaker 2: I would love to be Elon Musk. for a day 1282 01:09:52,045 --> 01:09:53,425 Speaker 2: just to know what it's like to be on musk 1283 01:09:53,445 --> 01:09:55,184 Speaker 2: i mean this it's an amazing thing this guy comes 1284 01:09:55,205 --> 01:09:59,705 Speaker 2: from south africa you know he's basically saving america in 1285 01:09:59,745 --> 01:10:03,604 Speaker 2: many ways i mean the um if you really understand 1286 01:10:03,665 --> 01:10:07,004 Speaker 2: spacex and what all these things are like it is 1287 01:10:07,045 --> 01:10:08,994 Speaker 2: the it is so much the future of like our 1288 01:10:09,035 --> 01:10:12,554 Speaker 2: security oh i think he's amazing um someone i'd love 1289 01:10:12,575 --> 01:10:17,865 Speaker 2: to be uh uh like you know i i I 1290 01:10:17,964 --> 01:10:20,624 Speaker 2: love like Chuck Swindoll. I love, I've never met Chuck Swindoll. 1291 01:10:20,644 --> 01:10:23,344 Speaker 2: I've met all these like really, really, you know, famous, 1292 01:10:23,405 --> 01:10:26,785 Speaker 2: interesting people. I watched you, you interviewed him and like 1293 01:10:26,804 --> 01:10:29,725 Speaker 2: to just be with him like for a day when 1294 01:10:29,764 --> 01:10:31,785 Speaker 2: he's like studying or writing a sermon or something like, 1295 01:10:31,825 --> 01:10:32,365 Speaker 2: how is he? 1296 01:10:33,025 --> 01:10:33,534 Speaker 1: You know, how is he? 1297 01:10:33,884 --> 01:10:34,725 Speaker 2: No, there are a lot of, there are a lot 1298 01:10:34,745 --> 01:10:36,005 Speaker 2: of people I'd like to be for a day. 1299 01:10:36,255 --> 01:10:38,655 Speaker 1: I interviewed Marco Rubio and the funny thing is he 1300 01:10:38,714 --> 01:10:40,075 Speaker 1: said he wanted to be you for a day. 1301 01:10:41,814 --> 01:10:46,545 Speaker 2: No, I think, you know, he's just like a, He's 1302 01:10:46,554 --> 01:10:50,025 Speaker 2: an amazing, he's an amazing, I think he's a one 1303 01:10:50,285 --> 01:10:54,624 Speaker 2: of one leader. It's just like, in many ways, I felt, 1304 01:10:55,125 --> 01:10:57,425 Speaker 2: you know, I felt like Donald Trump was a totally 1305 01:10:57,485 --> 01:10:59,505 Speaker 2: original human being when I met him. It's like nobody else, 1306 01:10:59,525 --> 01:11:03,924 Speaker 2: like uniquely gifted. Again, a lot of people agree, disagree 1307 01:11:03,964 --> 01:11:06,765 Speaker 2: with his style, his rhetoric, his policies, like all these things. 1308 01:11:07,585 --> 01:11:09,485 Speaker 2: but he's a one of one person. And I think 1309 01:11:09,785 --> 01:11:11,384 Speaker 2: Marco Rubio is another one of those. It's just like, 1310 01:11:11,585 --> 01:11:13,825 Speaker 2: he's just one. There's no other Marco Rubio. 1311 01:11:13,844 --> 01:11:17,205 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you about the president and about 1312 01:11:17,245 --> 01:11:25,354 Speaker 1: Marco Rubio. What would surprise people to know about President Trump? 1313 01:11:25,735 --> 01:11:30,554 Speaker 1: Because you've been with him in smaller settings for a 1314 01:11:30,594 --> 01:11:33,754 Speaker 1: person that only has seen the president on television, where 1315 01:11:33,775 --> 01:11:37,764 Speaker 1: he's often in a combative stance because he's He's facing, 1316 01:11:38,025 --> 01:11:44,505 Speaker 1: you know, intimidating reporters asking absurd questions or whatever it 1317 01:11:44,585 --> 01:11:47,384 Speaker 1: is he's facing. Maybe we see him with a world leader. 1318 01:11:48,174 --> 01:11:51,995 Speaker 1: But like you've been around him. What would surprise people 1319 01:11:52,115 --> 01:11:52,814 Speaker 1: to know about him? 1320 01:11:53,054 --> 01:11:55,934 Speaker 2: Aside from the fact like he's really, really funny. 1321 01:11:56,094 --> 01:11:56,454 Speaker 1: Yes. 1322 01:11:56,514 --> 01:11:58,875 Speaker 2: Really, really nice. Like you really, really love being around him. 1323 01:11:58,915 --> 01:12:05,125 Speaker 2: Like fascinating guy. I think he has a solid moral core. 1324 01:12:05,224 --> 01:12:06,144 Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. 1325 01:12:06,165 --> 01:12:09,544 Speaker 2: Okay. A solid moral core. If you look at, you know, 1326 01:12:09,575 --> 01:12:12,375 Speaker 2: when I met him in 2012, like four years before 1327 01:12:12,394 --> 01:12:17,275 Speaker 2: he ran for president, I called the 1-800 number at 1328 01:12:17,314 --> 01:12:20,155 Speaker 2: the bottom of the Trump org website in order to 1329 01:12:20,195 --> 01:12:23,514 Speaker 2: invite him to speak at Liberty University. And he called 1330 01:12:23,554 --> 01:12:27,735 Speaker 2: me back like within an hour, accepted the invitation personally. 1331 01:12:28,245 --> 01:12:29,965 Speaker 2: And that was the first time he ever spoke to 1332 01:12:30,085 --> 01:12:34,005 Speaker 2: a large evangelical crowd. And if you go back and 1333 01:12:34,045 --> 01:12:37,785 Speaker 2: you like, Listen to him talking then compared to now. 1334 01:12:37,804 --> 01:12:40,064 Speaker 2: And again, put aside the style and all of this. Obviously, 1335 01:12:40,085 --> 01:12:42,725 Speaker 2: you have a very different style than the president. But 1336 01:12:42,764 --> 01:12:47,434 Speaker 2: he's a remarkably consistent person. And I can tell you 1337 01:12:47,775 --> 01:12:51,015 Speaker 2: the amount of political forces that I've witnessed, that you've 1338 01:12:51,054 --> 01:12:56,935 Speaker 2: witnessed on him to not make the hard decisions. and 1339 01:12:56,995 --> 01:12:59,355 Speaker 2: what I always tell people when people get nervous as 1340 01:12:59,394 --> 01:13:01,335 Speaker 2: to whether he's going to do something, you know, whether 1341 01:13:01,354 --> 01:13:04,845 Speaker 2: he's going to go, go weak on the Iranian nuclear 1342 01:13:04,865 --> 01:13:08,325 Speaker 2: program or like, or, or go weak on the, on, 1343 01:13:08,724 --> 01:13:10,825 Speaker 2: on antisemitism on the right or something like this. Like 1344 01:13:10,905 --> 01:13:14,184 Speaker 2: I always say like, it's going to be fine because 1345 01:13:14,325 --> 01:13:17,464 Speaker 2: he's going to, he's going to land exactly, you know, 1346 01:13:17,545 --> 01:13:19,245 Speaker 2: in the, in the right place. And he, and he just, 1347 01:13:19,724 --> 01:13:21,545 Speaker 2: at least on the things I know about that I'm, 1348 01:13:22,644 --> 01:13:29,814 Speaker 2: I don't do economics, but in the foreign policy, national security, 1349 01:13:30,755 --> 01:13:33,794 Speaker 2: in so many areas that are good for the American people, 1350 01:13:34,434 --> 01:13:39,285 Speaker 2: he just has a reliable moral core. And he really 1351 01:13:39,325 --> 01:13:43,604 Speaker 2: respects pastors. He does. That's the thing. He has an 1352 01:13:43,745 --> 01:13:48,184 Speaker 2: old-school deference to spiritual leaders. It's almost as if he 1353 01:13:48,205 --> 01:13:52,455 Speaker 2: envies pastors. you know, something about them. 1354 01:13:52,474 --> 01:13:53,195 Speaker 1: Um, yeah. 1355 01:13:54,214 --> 01:13:58,474 Speaker 2: And, and there's never been a moment where, uh, we 1356 01:13:58,695 --> 01:14:00,955 Speaker 2: wanted or needed to talk to him, uh, when, when 1357 01:14:00,974 --> 01:14:04,695 Speaker 2: that door wasn't open to us. And, uh, and we've 1358 01:14:04,714 --> 01:14:06,655 Speaker 2: been respectful for him as the president of the United States. 1359 01:14:06,674 --> 01:14:11,314 Speaker 2: He's our friend in many ways. Uh, and so like 1360 01:14:11,434 --> 01:14:16,285 Speaker 2: all my friends, uh, I keep my criticism private. And 1361 01:14:16,325 --> 01:14:19,805 Speaker 2: I take great joy in giving public praise when they 1362 01:14:19,844 --> 01:14:20,765 Speaker 2: do something that makes me proud. 1363 01:14:20,785 --> 01:14:23,585 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I remember I was having a conversation 1364 01:14:23,625 --> 01:14:26,144 Speaker 1: with Mike Johnson, and he said, you know, a lot 1365 01:14:26,184 --> 01:14:28,705 Speaker 1: of people miss the fact that, you know, Trump was 1366 01:14:28,764 --> 01:14:32,304 Speaker 1: in the hospitality business. And when we've been at the 1367 01:14:32,365 --> 01:14:36,745 Speaker 1: White House, he's so hospitable. And on a couple of occasions, 1368 01:14:37,085 --> 01:14:39,224 Speaker 1: he'll have a group of pastors. And he'll say, would 1369 01:14:39,245 --> 01:14:41,465 Speaker 1: you like to go up to the family quarters? It's 1370 01:14:41,505 --> 01:14:43,514 Speaker 1: in the Lincoln bedroom. Who wouldn't like to go up there? 1371 01:14:43,535 --> 01:14:45,455 Speaker 1: And so you go up, and the president's giving you 1372 01:14:45,474 --> 01:14:48,974 Speaker 1: a guided tour, explaining every painting. And then he takes 1373 01:14:48,995 --> 01:14:51,894 Speaker 1: you into the Lincoln bedroom, and he's telling you all 1374 01:14:51,955 --> 01:14:56,155 Speaker 1: about it. And he likes to make people feel welcome 1375 01:14:56,195 --> 01:14:58,775 Speaker 1: and at home. And another thing I would say, yes, 1376 01:14:58,795 --> 01:15:01,825 Speaker 1: he's very funny. And then the other thing is, he's 1377 01:15:01,844 --> 01:15:04,025 Speaker 1: a good listener. People don't think that about him. 1378 01:15:04,045 --> 01:15:07,544 Speaker 2: He asks questions constantly of everyone. 1379 01:15:07,945 --> 01:15:08,445 Speaker 1: And he listens. 1380 01:15:10,684 --> 01:15:14,265 Speaker 2: And I think that's part of why he understands the 1381 01:15:14,335 --> 01:15:20,094 Speaker 2: everyday American. I've seen him ask random, just the most 1382 01:15:20,134 --> 01:15:22,875 Speaker 2: random person you can imagine. He's the type of person 1383 01:15:22,934 --> 01:15:26,974 Speaker 2: that if the door dasher came to my house when 1384 01:15:27,035 --> 01:15:31,435 Speaker 2: I was deliberating over some big national security thing, if 1385 01:15:31,495 --> 01:15:34,644 Speaker 2: I were door dashers went to the White House. Would 1386 01:15:34,665 --> 01:15:38,184 Speaker 2: I ask the door dasher who's on the run about 1387 01:15:38,285 --> 01:15:40,644 Speaker 2: foreign policy? Probably not. He has a job to do. 1388 01:15:40,684 --> 01:15:43,864 Speaker 2: I got a job to do. President Trump asks everyone 1389 01:15:44,724 --> 01:15:47,705 Speaker 2: questions all the time about whatever it is he's thinking about. 1390 01:15:47,804 --> 01:15:50,465 Speaker 2: And he collects all that information and goes into his 1391 01:15:50,495 --> 01:15:54,175 Speaker 2: decision-making process. People don't realize about it. He's a very 1392 01:15:54,195 --> 01:15:54,615 Speaker 2: good listener. 1393 01:15:54,854 --> 01:15:57,174 Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? 1394 01:16:00,455 --> 01:16:04,855 Speaker 2: It's a bit of Jewish wisdom actually, uh, from, uh, uh, uh, 1395 01:16:05,115 --> 01:16:07,075 Speaker 2: a book called ethics of our fathers. And I, I 1396 01:16:07,094 --> 01:16:12,214 Speaker 2: was ready to quit. Like I just had reached my limit. Um, 1397 01:16:13,045 --> 01:16:17,525 Speaker 2: it was just, uh, it was, it just totally overwhelmed with, 1398 01:16:17,705 --> 01:16:20,224 Speaker 2: it'd gotten very hard and, and all kinds of critics 1399 01:16:20,245 --> 01:16:24,265 Speaker 2: and all these things. And a rabbi friend of mine, um, uh, who, 1400 01:16:24,285 --> 01:16:29,515 Speaker 2: you know, uh, rabbi Cooper from the center. He said, uh, um, 1401 01:16:29,854 --> 01:16:32,175 Speaker 2: in this book, ethics of our fathers, it says, it's 1402 01:16:32,255 --> 01:16:35,835 Speaker 2: not up to you to finish, to complete the task, 1403 01:16:35,875 --> 01:16:39,714 Speaker 2: to finish the job, but neither are you free from it. 1404 01:16:39,735 --> 01:16:41,635 Speaker 2: Or I think it says, it's not, it's not up 1405 01:16:41,655 --> 01:16:45,375 Speaker 2: to you to finish the task, but neither are you 1406 01:16:45,415 --> 01:16:47,815 Speaker 2: free to desist from it. So, so it's not up 1407 01:16:47,835 --> 01:16:52,175 Speaker 2: to you to finish it, but nor are you free to, 1408 01:16:52,554 --> 01:16:55,724 Speaker 2: you know, step out of the game. And I think sometimes, uh, 1409 01:16:55,795 --> 01:17:02,485 Speaker 2: one of the downsides of, uh, The visionary culture that 1410 01:17:02,585 --> 01:17:05,745 Speaker 2: animates the Christian church is that we can sometimes think 1411 01:17:06,205 --> 01:17:09,525 Speaker 2: it's actually up to us to reach the world in 1412 01:17:09,545 --> 01:17:11,964 Speaker 2: our generation, to finish the job, to finish the task. 1413 01:17:14,025 --> 01:17:16,795 Speaker 2: But actually it isn't. It's up to us to, you know, 1414 01:17:16,835 --> 01:17:20,014 Speaker 2: it's that verse about King David that he completed what 1415 01:17:20,035 --> 01:17:21,794 Speaker 2: was in front of him and then he, you know. 1416 01:17:21,995 --> 01:17:22,755 Speaker 1: In his generation. 1417 01:17:22,775 --> 01:17:25,214 Speaker 2: In his generation. And that's what we do. We do 1418 01:17:25,314 --> 01:17:27,324 Speaker 2: our part with what we, we take what we have 1419 01:17:27,384 --> 01:17:29,964 Speaker 2: and we do what we can. And then we pass 1420 01:17:30,005 --> 01:17:32,915 Speaker 2: it on. And that's what we've been doing for generations 1421 01:17:33,014 --> 01:17:37,964 Speaker 2: and generations and generations. And because the Bible is our priest, 1422 01:17:38,125 --> 01:17:40,165 Speaker 2: you know, I always explain to people like, why do 1423 01:17:40,224 --> 01:17:43,445 Speaker 2: evangelicals have consistent beliefs all over the world about Israel, about, 1424 01:17:43,545 --> 01:17:45,445 Speaker 2: you know, the Bible and everything else? Because we don't 1425 01:17:45,464 --> 01:17:48,464 Speaker 2: have priests and high priests and archbishops and thank God, 1426 01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:51,365 Speaker 2: no Pope. Pope's fine. He's an American. I'm sure he's 1427 01:17:51,405 --> 01:17:53,144 Speaker 2: a nice guy, but thank God we don't have any 1428 01:17:53,165 --> 01:17:53,525 Speaker 2: of that stuff. 1429 01:17:54,445 --> 01:17:55,184 Speaker 1: The Bible. 1430 01:17:56,224 --> 01:18:00,314 Speaker 2: The Bible is our Pope. And we read the Bible. And- 1431 01:18:00,865 --> 01:18:03,405 Speaker 2: The church all around the world reads the Bible. And 1432 01:18:03,564 --> 01:18:05,445 Speaker 2: that's what we choose. We choose to believe what that 1433 01:18:05,485 --> 01:18:08,425 Speaker 2: book says. And so I think in that moment where 1434 01:18:08,455 --> 01:18:10,855 Speaker 2: I was ready to give up, it was because, you 1435 01:18:10,894 --> 01:18:13,394 Speaker 2: know what? I couldn't finish the task at that moment 1436 01:18:13,434 --> 01:18:16,735 Speaker 2: if I wanted to. And in the providence of God, 1437 01:18:16,875 --> 01:18:22,214 Speaker 2: it took a rabbi calling up some Jewish wisdom to 1438 01:18:22,255 --> 01:18:26,514 Speaker 2: remind me that I am, and we all are, we're 1439 01:18:26,535 --> 01:18:30,924 Speaker 2: the junior partner in this equation. God is... is our guide, 1440 01:18:31,445 --> 01:18:32,844 Speaker 2: and he'll always be with us. 1441 01:18:33,144 --> 01:18:35,564 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a relay race, you know. It's not 1442 01:18:35,604 --> 01:18:39,025 Speaker 1: a solo race. It's like one generation carries a baton, 1443 01:18:39,064 --> 01:18:41,764 Speaker 1: they hand it off to the next one. I remember 1444 01:18:41,804 --> 01:18:44,974 Speaker 1: Billy Graham said, and that's a loose paraphrase, but something 1445 01:18:44,995 --> 01:18:48,435 Speaker 1: along the lines of, we're not responsible for the last generation, 1446 01:18:48,495 --> 01:18:50,895 Speaker 1: nor are we responsible for the next one, but we 1447 01:18:50,934 --> 01:18:53,434 Speaker 1: have our generation. And so we do what we can 1448 01:18:53,575 --> 01:18:58,715 Speaker 1: in our generation and carry that baton until our part 1449 01:18:58,735 --> 01:19:00,665 Speaker 1: of the race is done, and then someone else carries 1450 01:19:00,755 --> 01:19:03,214 Speaker 1: it on. But like Paul, I love what Paul said. 1451 01:19:03,245 --> 01:19:06,804 Speaker 1: I fought the good fight. I kept the faith. I 1452 01:19:06,924 --> 01:19:10,465 Speaker 1: finished the course, his course. Henceforth, there is later for 1453 01:19:10,485 --> 01:19:13,844 Speaker 1: me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, 1454 01:19:13,884 --> 01:19:16,594 Speaker 1: will give to me in that day. Not to me only, 1455 01:19:16,665 --> 01:19:19,525 Speaker 1: but to all who love his appearing. So, you know, Johnny, 1456 01:19:19,604 --> 01:19:22,044 Speaker 1: thank you. On behalf of the church, let me speak 1457 01:19:22,085 --> 01:19:29,985 Speaker 1: for the whole church right now. Pope Gregory. Thank you 1458 01:19:30,025 --> 01:19:32,104 Speaker 1: for all that you've done. Thank you for the bold 1459 01:19:32,125 --> 01:19:35,844 Speaker 1: stands you've taken. Thank you for being a courageous and 1460 01:19:36,025 --> 01:19:42,205 Speaker 1: sane and loving voice to every community, the Jewish community. 1461 01:19:44,474 --> 01:19:48,814 Speaker 1: the community of Islam. Anybody, everybody, I've been with you 1462 01:19:48,854 --> 01:19:52,834 Speaker 1: in many settings, and you're a deep thinker, and you 1463 01:19:52,884 --> 01:19:55,625 Speaker 1: manage to take these things and articulate them in a 1464 01:19:55,684 --> 01:19:59,665 Speaker 1: very effective way. And God, you're a unique person. I 1465 01:19:59,705 --> 01:20:02,625 Speaker 1: don't know anybody like you, but a very gifted person. 1466 01:20:02,705 --> 01:20:05,225 Speaker 1: And thank you for all that you do. And we 1467 01:20:05,464 --> 01:20:08,165 Speaker 1: pray that God will continue to bless you and lead 1468 01:20:08,184 --> 01:20:09,485 Speaker 1: you and use you for His glory. 1469 01:20:09,884 --> 01:20:10,445 Speaker 2: Thank you, Pastor. 1470 01:20:10,604 --> 01:20:10,925 Speaker 1: Thank you.