1 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: The Strait of Hormuz, like Schrodinger's cat, is open and 2 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: closed at the same time. Is it open yes, according 3 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: to Trump and Iran's foreign minister. Is it closed yes 4 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: according to Iran. Traffic going through the strait now seems restricted. 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: Here's the voice of an Indian tangle captain trying to 6 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: get through, Sifa Navy, Sifa Naby. This is mutoring a 7 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: san marital. 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: You get me Clarence to go. 9 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: My name second on your list. 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: You get me Clarence to go. 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: You are fighting now, let me turn back. A further 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: escalation by the US military might be next. Just yesterday, 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: an Iranian cargo vessel refused to turn back and bam 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: hole in one. 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: Motor motora. Vacate your engineering, vacate your engineer. 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: We're prepared to subject you to disabling fire. The straight 17 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: now off limits might be open once again. Before we 18 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: know it. We're in the fog of war. And not 19 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: only is finding out the truth elusive, but the truth 20 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: itself The facts on the ground changed pretty rapidly. So 21 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: what's going on here? I debated this subject last Thursday 22 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: with Myron Gains. He insisted that Iran is winning on 23 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: virtually all fronts. Not militarily, of course, Myron couldn't bring 24 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: himself to say that, but diplomatically, strategically, reputationally, the war 25 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: Myron is it is a big win for Iran and 26 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: a big loss for Trump. Well, let me start with 27 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: the reputational issue. Is Trump losing in Iran or is 28 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: it simply the case that Trump's critics want him to lose. 29 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: I find that whenever Iran does something extremely minor, a 30 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: huge cheer goes up from the global left and from 31 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: the democrats here in America, and even from the anti 32 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: Trump right. See Iran got a missile all the way 33 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: to Diego Garcia. That shows how powerful Iran is. Well, 34 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: never mind that the missile was disabled, it didn't do 35 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: any damage. Iran hasn't been able to get off a 36 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: second one. Or Iran has hit Israel, penetrating its defenses. 37 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: See Iran is just mobilizing its counter attack. Well, to me, 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: this is all just pathetic. I mean, a small country 39 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: like Israel, ten million people ruthlessly pummels a big country 40 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Iran nearly ten times its size, killing its scientists and 41 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: top officials, toppling its military and communications facilities, and you're 42 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: getting excited, Iran landed one rocket near Jerusalem, hardly disturbing 43 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: normal life in the city. The simple truth is that 44 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: the Left is hoping for Iran to win, not just 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: because they are anti Trump, but also because they see 46 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: Iran as being on their side. Why do you think 47 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Obama sent all that money to Iran if not to 48 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: build its military and terroristic capacity. Why did he approve 49 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: an Iran deal with inadequate safeguards if not to hurry 50 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Iran along in getting a nuclear weapon. I made a 51 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: film about Obama in twenty twelve, Obama's America. Other conservatives 52 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: viewed Obama as a misguided civil rights guy. I expose 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: that his royal motivation was anti colonial, just like the 54 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: Islamic radicals. He views America as an evil empire, an 55 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: evil regime. His policies were aimed at helping America's adversaries 56 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: and taking down America's wealth and power. Very much in 57 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: the Obama vain, the left today wants to ally with 58 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: the radical Muslims to undermine traditional America and defeat the right. 59 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: And the harsh truth is that the anti Trump podcaster 60 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: is like Tucker and others are collaborating with them now 61 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: Of course, Tucker can't openly say that, So Tucker makes 62 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: predictions it will all go badly for US. America will 63 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: regret this, we should never have done it, and blah 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: blah blah. Now beyond Tucker, the endless forecasts of whoa 65 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: oilabile skyrocket to two hundred dollars per barrel, global energy crisis, 66 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: stock market crash, collapse of the dollar, World War III, 67 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: thermonuclear holocaust. Every prediction proves wrong, and Tucker never admits this, 68 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: never apologizes when gets the impression his predictions are wishful 69 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: thinking nothing more. All right, let's talk about Iran's supposed 70 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: diplomatic successes here. I'm tempted to laugh because Iran could 71 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: have used this conflict to make diplomatic headway with the 72 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: Arab countries in the Middle East, and in fact, with 73 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: the whole old Muslim world. It would have been smart 74 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: for Iran to try and make this seem like a 75 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: war against Islam. Trump and Israel, the Christians and the 76 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: Jews combining forces to target and Islamic regime in a 77 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: Muslim country. That might have worked. But what do the 78 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: Iranians do instead? The attack targets in the UAE Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, 79 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: Oman and Jordan. They make enemies of their own potential allies. Consequently, 80 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: the UAE freezes Iranian assets, restricts Iranian axis, even talks 81 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: about joining the fight on the side of the US 82 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: and israel I. Made this point to Myron in my debate, 83 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: and he really didn't offer any rebuttal Iran had the 84 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: opportunity early on to try to rally the Muslim countries 85 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: in the region the way the Palestinians have and make 86 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: this seem like a war against Islam. Iran was so 87 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: dumb that they didn't do that. They actually began to 88 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: attack bases and assets in these countries, thus making it 89 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: really easy for really rich and powerful Muslim countries to 90 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: go far beyond what they have done before, not merely 91 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: to denounce Iran, but freeze Iranian assets, limit Iranian access, 92 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: even talk about joining the US and Israeli initiative if 93 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: the attacks continue. So Iran has done something I think 94 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: monumentally stupid, and that it has alienated its other potential 95 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: allies in the Muslim world, even in the Middle East. 96 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: Forget about Muslims in Pakistan and Indonesia. I'm just talking 97 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: about Muslims in the region. This I think was a 98 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: catastrophic blunder. So the war has been a diplomatic catastrophe. 99 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: From Iran's point of view, Iran is completely isolated even 100 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: in the Muslim world. China and Russia aren't even helping Iran. 101 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: Iran's only allies of podcasters Myron Tucker and a few others. Consequently, 102 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: the US and Israel have had free reign in clabbing 103 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: the regime of the Mullahs. Now, let's turn to the 104 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: strategic element, and here we must get into the complicated 105 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: politics of the Strait of Horror Moves. This is a 106 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: narrow waterway twenty to thirty miles wide, located right next 107 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: to the Iranian border. The Strait connects the Persian Gulf 108 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: to the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea. It's the 109 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: only sea route for oil and gas exports from the 110 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: Persian Gulf to reach global markets. This means that oil 111 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Uae, and Iran flows 112 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: through the Strait to markets in Europe, India, China, and elsewhere. 113 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: Some twenty percent of global petroleum goes through that narrow corridor, 114 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: and this helps us to understand how Iran's control over 115 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: the Strait affects global oil prices. If you restrict the 116 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: global supply and the demand remains the same, prices go up. 117 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: Economics one oh one. So if you want to know 118 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: why you're paying more at the pump the last few weeks, hey, 119 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: that's why. But that might prove to be a short 120 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: term squeeze. Trump did something recently with the Strait that 121 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: seemed to defy lot. The Iranians created a blockade or 122 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: cordon around the strait, and one might have expected Trump 123 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: to use US forced to break the cordon. Instead, Trump 124 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: does the opposite. He asked the US Navy to build 125 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: a second cordon around the Iranian cordon, a sort of 126 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: double blockade. Essentially, Trump said to the Iranians, you can 127 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: keep everyone out, and we can keep you out. So 128 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: this was an unexpected and audacious move and initially puzzling 129 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: to people, including some on the right. But Trump's logic 130 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: was ingenious. The Chinese, the Indians, the Europeans, they're all 131 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: dependent on oil. If they can't get it from the 132 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: Middle East, where are they going to get it from? Answer? 133 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: The United States Venezuela, and currently the US is working 134 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: with Venezuela so that we control our oil, we also 135 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: control their oil. Basically, we've become the top dog of 136 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: the global oil market. The world's biggest buyers have got 137 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: to come to US. US oil exports serge, Chinese Yea, 138 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: and Indian rupees. European euros must be converted into dollars 139 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: for them to make their oil purchases from US. And 140 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: this doesn't just strengthen the US oil industry, it strengthens 141 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: the US dollar. Bad news for the so called bricks 142 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: countries India, China and so on. They're hoping to build 143 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: a rival currency to the US dollar. Not working out now. 144 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Iran has found itself in a desperate situation. It started 145 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: out with Iran controlling the Strait of Hormus. Nobody else 146 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: could go through, at least not without Iranian say so. 147 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: Then the US shut out Iran but allowed other ships 148 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: to pass, and so tankers from UAE and Dubai could 149 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: smoothly cross the strait, while the US Navy refused to 150 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: allow any entry or egress out of Iranian ports. Iran 151 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: ended up in a situation where the strait was effectively 152 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: open to everyone except Iran. Quite quite amusing if you 153 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: think about it. The Iranian foreign minister announced a couple 154 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: of days ago that the Strait of Hormus was open. 155 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Evidently this was in the expectation the US would lift 156 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: its blockade, but Trump did not lift the blockade, and 157 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: now the Iranians have denounced their own foreign minister and 158 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: said they are reimposing restrictions on the strait. That's where 159 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: things stand as off now. It seems like there may 160 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: be some tension between Iran's political authorities who want to 161 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: find an amicable resolution, and Iran's military authorities, who want 162 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: to use their last form of leverage the Strait while 163 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: they have it. So, the US might have inadvertently achieved 164 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,359 Speaker 1: another key objective in war, to detach the political leadership 165 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: from the military leadership, to create, in other words, fissurerers 166 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: within a previously unified regime now true to form like 167 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: the circus performers they are. The European leaders have now 168 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: jumped into the mixed cure Starmer of Great Britain, Macarna, France, Georgia, Malonia, Italy, 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: claiming to be formulating a plan to keep the Strait 170 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: of Horror moves open. Their plan, as it turns out, 171 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: is simply to advocate what the Iranian government will agree to. 172 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: Their plan is the Iranian plan. No wonder Trump has 173 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: had it with this European circus Act. He knows it's 174 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: a desperate bid for relevance the part of countries that 175 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: are well no longer relevant. The European plan for the Strait, 176 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: as it turns out, is about as valuable as my 177 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: own plan, and I don't have a plan. These clowns 178 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: are giving us a clear indication of why NATO has 179 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: become obsolete. Meanwhile, Trump keeps his sights on the big picture. 180 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: There are five major maritime choke points in the world. 181 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: The Strait of Gibraltar, the Strait of Malacca, the Strait 182 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: of Hormuz, the boss ARUs Strait, and the Panama Straight Now, 183 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: the US already works with Panama to control the Panama Canal, 184 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: which is the passageway through that strait. Recently, Trump made 185 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: a deal with Indonesia over the Strait of Malacca and 186 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: another with Morocco over the Strait of Gibraltar. Basically, Trump 187 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: knows that energy is the fuel of the global economy, 188 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: and if the United States effectively controls most of the 189 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: key choke points. Then we have created something close to 190 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: a strategic monopoly. Myrone Gains kept telling me Trump is 191 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: losing strategically, but I doubt he's even heard of the 192 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: Straits of Malacca and Gibraltar. These characters, the anti Trump pundits, 193 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: think they know more about the real estate of the 194 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: world than Trump, a lifelong real estate man on the 195 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: world stage. Militarily, of course, this conflict is absurdly one side, 196 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,119 Speaker 1: and basically the US and Israel have wiped out Iran's 197 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: major military facilities, communications centers, and key infrastructure while suffering 198 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: hardly any damage themselves. We can verify this by simply 199 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: making a list of casualties and infrastructure damage on both sides. Now, 200 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: in a normal war, both sides suffer significant losses. In 201 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: a civil war battle, for instance, if the Union Army 202 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: lost three thousand and Robert E. Lee lost twenty two hundred, 203 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: this was considered a big victory for Lee. He only 204 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: lost twenty two hundred men. Now, if the US goes 205 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: to war with Sri Lanka or Luxembourg, we might expect 206 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: to complete wipeout, but Iran. Iran is not Sri Lanka, 207 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: Iran is well was I guess, perhaps the most powerful 208 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: Muslim nation in the Middle East. Certainly it's one of 209 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: the big three, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iran. Iran was 210 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: seeking through its nuclear program to become the undisputed top dog. 211 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: Given all that I can't even remember, not just in 212 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: my lifetime, but even in history, a conflict with a 213 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: major country as one side, it is this particular one. 214 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: Iran has already lost, and lost badly. Now, poor Myron 215 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: Gaines finds it hard to admit this, and so he 216 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: tries to convert the military catastrophe into a moral victory. 217 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: Irani says, is not really lost. They could hit Israel hard, 218 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: they could hit the US hard. They're just not doing 219 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: it because, well, because they're exercising moral restraint. I'm not 220 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: having any of it. And that is the idea that 221 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: Iran's reaction was measured due to moral restraint. No Iran's 222 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: reaction was measured because they had no other reaction to do. 223 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: It's kind of like saying, if I step into the 224 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: ring and I get so badly pummeled that I'm flat 225 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: on the ground, and therefore I'm flailing from the ground. 226 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: You can't say, oh, look that guy, he's being so restrained. 227 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: He's only flailing from the ground. Of the truth of 228 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: it is he can't get up. That's why he's flailing 229 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: from the ground. If he could get up. If Iran 230 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: had vastly greater capacities military capacities of an active navy 231 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: and active air force, you don't think that they would 232 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: be completely strafing and bombing. You don't think that they'd 233 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: be sending jets to hit US bases. You don't think 234 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: that they would try to activate, for example, their connections 235 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: in Venezuela to try to hit Miami. They would be 236 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: doing all of these things. The reason they can't do 237 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: it is they're like the guy in Monty Python who's 238 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: lost his arms and his legs. So they're restrained is fake. 239 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: It's not restrained. It's actually genuine weakness that has been 240 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: imposed on them as on the losing side of a 241 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: military campaign. And even Myron admitted that they are losing 242 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: this militarily. Even so, the Mullahs in Iran are clinging 243 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: to power and maybe they will survive if the US 244 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: and Israel achieve the military objectives and get out, the 245 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: Mullas will try to hold on now. I hope that 246 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: they can't. I hope they don't. I hope the Iranian 247 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: people can take back their own country. In fact, I'm 248 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: hoping to see a free ran a free Venezuela, and 249 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: a free Cuba. Can you imagine Trump's legacy if he 250 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: creates the conditions for these things to happen and then 251 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: they do, but the US is not going to make 252 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: them happen through a land invasion. Predictions are a tricky business, 253 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: but I'm going to predict the Trump and the US 254 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: come out on top. All's well, that ends well. And 255 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: let's remember that Trump did this in a few weeks. 256 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: This hasn't been Vietnam or Afghanistan Iraq. This hasn't been 257 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: a forever war. The left was wrong, Kirstarma was wrong, 258 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green was wrong, Joe Kent was wrong. They 259 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: were wrong, and Trump was right. We're not done yet, 260 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: but let's judge the enterprise by its results. Oil prices 261 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: are already sharply down. Once this wraps up, they're going 262 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: to go much lower. This will give a massive boost 263 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: to the stock market and global markets. The Trump tax 264 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: plan is now taking effect and millions of Americans are 265 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: going to have bigger tax refunds this year. And AI 266 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: and robotics revolution isn't just around the corner, it's already here. 267 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: The mullas maybe trying to restore the Islamic glory days 268 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: of the seventh century. But hey, as for the rest 269 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: of us, we'll enjoy the productivity revolution, the economic boom 270 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: that's coming for us and for our children. And that's 271 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: the way I see it. Here's the thing about crypto, 272 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: it's here to stay. That argument is over. But think 273 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: about if this is a market that never sleeps. It's 274 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: moving at midnight, it's two am, three am, and while 275 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: you're asleep, who's watching. Because here's what nobody tells you. 276 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: Most crypto platforms give you a log in, wish you 277 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: luck and call it a day. That's not investing. That's 278 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: gambling with your retirement and hoping for the best. That's 279 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: why I've partnered with block trust Ira. Block trust Ira 280 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: is Cryptoira built for Americans who refuse to be on 281 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: the losing side of that equation. Their award winning AI 282 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: engine navigates the notoriously volatile crypto markets around the clock, 283 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: automatically rebalancing your portfolio to protect your gains and limit 284 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: your exposure when markets swing. 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Voted Bitcoin 290 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: Magazine number one technology platform, and if that doesn't surprise 291 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: me one bit, open your CRYPTOIRA today and block trust. 292 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: IRA will give you up to a twenty five hundred 293 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: dollars inflation shield bonus straight into your account. Go to 294 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: janescrypto dot com and sign up today. They can print dollars, 295 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: but they cannot print crypto. That's nshcrypto dot com. Guys, 296 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: if you're on x, the platform formerly known as Twitter, 297 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: you're probably seeing a bunch of posts about Noah's Arc. 298 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: Very fascinating. Has it finally been found? I want you 299 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: to know I'm producing a special four episode series called 300 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: Finding Noah's Arc. It's fascinating because of Noah's ARKI is found. 301 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: It will be the greatest finding in biblical archaeology, even 302 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: bigger than the Dead Sea Scrolls. Incidentally, I've been studying 303 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: biblical archaeology for the past three to four years. My 304 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: book on the subject, it's called The End of Time 305 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: Biblical Archaeology Prophecy in the Last Days, will be published 306 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: this fall. Remarkably, you can pre order now on Amazon, 307 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: so go do that, be one of the first to 308 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: get it. And the Noah's Arc series will be released 309 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: this summer. But here's just a glimpse of some of 310 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: the visual images that give you a preview of what's 311 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: to come. 312 00:18:58,560 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 3: Stay tuned, sall dies, no, Hey, I'm now on Substack. 313 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: It's kind of full circle for me. I started out 314 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: as a journalist, writing articles for National Review, the American Spectator, 315 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, lots of places. After my stint in 316 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: the Reagan White House, I pivoted to writing books, and 317 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: that was way back in nineteen ninety one. So I've 318 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: been mainly known as an author and of course later 319 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: as a filmmaker. But my first job journalist, and now 320 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting back to that. On substack, you'll get original 321 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: articles and commentary, groundbreaking investigations, exclusive access to film clips, 322 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: show clips, and guess what. It's free, so check it out. 323 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: Go to Dinesh DESUSA dot substack dot com. My guest 324 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: today is an old friend, someone who has actually appeared 325 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: in one of my earlier films. It's Paul Kegor, a 326 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: political scientist at Grove City College in Pennsylvania and also 327 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: an eminent author of a number of great books. I'm 328 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: most familiar with the book he did on God and 329 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. So the topic of religion and politics is 330 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: something that Paul has been thinking about for a long time, 331 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: and the new book very topical and very timely American 332 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: Pontiff Pope Leo the fourteenth and his plan to heal 333 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: the church. I want to talk about the battle royale 334 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: between the Pope and Trump. Paul, welcome, Thank you for 335 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: joining me. Let me begin by asking you, is it 336 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: not the case that this is a rather unprecedented clash 337 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: between not just an American president and the Catholic pope, but, 338 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: as it turns out, in this case, an American president 339 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: and an American pope. 340 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: Indeed, Denesh, my old friend, good to see you again. 341 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: We go way back, way back to Pittsburgh in the 342 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: nineteen nineties, to when I brought you to Grove City College, 343 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: and yeah, we worked together on films and all kinds 344 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 2: of stuff. So good to be with you again. Yeah, 345 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: this is totally unprecedented. I mean I did, I actually 346 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: did a book called A Pope and a President. I'm 347 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan and John Paul the Second And by the way, 348 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: John Paul the Second is a great example of this 349 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 2: because so I could go through examples of pope's opposing 350 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: presidents on war, going back to Woodrow Wilson, right, And 351 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: I mean oftentimes and people watching, I'll defend Trump and 352 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 2: I'll defend the Pope, and I'll criticize both. So so 353 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 2: hope you know, hold on here. But you know, popes 354 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 2: often say what Leo has been saying about Trump. Generally 355 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 2: during wartime they pray for peace, right And recently with 356 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: John Paul the Second, I mean he was very critical 357 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: of George W. Bush in the Iraq War. By the way, 358 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: so was Donald Trump, right, I mean Trump said Bush 359 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 2: lied about wfb's right. Bush said, you know, Saddam is 360 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: on the CUSPP getting a nuclear weapon, right, And you 361 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: know Trump said he lied right? Well, right now, Trump 362 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: says Iron's on the CUSP of getting a nuclear weapon. 363 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: And by the way, they might be I supported Bush 364 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 2: and Iraq. I support us trying to stop Iran, but yeah, 365 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: I would so becautioned Trump here, like you know, we 366 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: thought that was Saddam too, all right, So, but popes 367 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: generally make these general exhortations for peace. Given this statement 368 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: from I know, we could theologically, biblically unpack this. The 369 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: statement from Leo about God doesn't bless wars. I mean, 370 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: you know, generally Jesus, the Prince of peace, you know, 371 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 2: doesn't want people at wars. So if you really dig 372 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: into these statements, that's kind of generally what he's saying. 373 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: And people should take a careful look at Leo's statements. 374 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: He has not yet come out and said, like, you know, 375 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: this is an unjust war, which would be an extraordinary 376 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 2: statement from him because he's an Augustinian. He knows more 377 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: about Augustine than any pope ever. He headed the International 378 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: Augustinian Order. Now, some of the more reckless part of 379 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: me obnoxious liberal left wing bishops have said that they're 380 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: not as measured as Leo the fourteenth is, but Leo 381 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: hasn't said that. So, but Trump's eruption on truth social 382 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: of the pope. Yeah, that is totally unprecedented. And John 383 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 2: Paul the second called the Iraq war an unjust war. 384 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: And then you know, Bush diplomatically met with him, said 385 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: we know, it's kind of what the pope does. Bush 386 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 2: didn't explode on him. So with Donald Trump, that statement 387 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: against the current pope, Yeah, completely unprecedented in the history 388 00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 2: of the presidency. 389 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: Papers the uh, I mean, I'm just going to read 390 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: a couple of lines from Trump's posts since you bring 391 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: it up. He talks about the fact. Well, first of all, 392 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: he says, I like his brother Lewis much better than 393 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: I like him, meaning the Pope, because Lewis is all 394 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: maga he gets it and Leo doesn't. Right, I mean, 395 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: don't be Trump, right? 396 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: That classic Trump. And and look, you know we all 397 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 2: know people watching, you know who like Donald Trump, voted 398 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 2: for him. I voted for him. We all know that 399 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 2: if you oppose Trump, usually he doesn't like you. And 400 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: Gaines last week, you know, so it's kind of you know, 401 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say it childish, Right, You ought to 402 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 2: be able to have people disagree. And if the Pope 403 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: disagrees with you, so what who cares? Right? The popes 404 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: pray for peace. He disagrees with you. Fine. I think 405 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: we really set Trump. Often in Trump's defense is when 406 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: the three most liberal American bishops are cardinals, all appointed 407 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 2: by Francis Right, Tobin, Soupitch McElroy. I mean, gosh, Francis 408 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: put McElroy in charge of the Archbishop of Washington right 409 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: as soon as Trump came in office. And it's like, 410 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: this is gonna blow up. And then you know, McElroy 411 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: comes right out, you know, unjust, war, morally unacceptable, of course, 412 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: saying things that you know, the more careful Leo would 413 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 2: never say. And then they all appeared together in sixty 414 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 2: minutes on Sunday, and so all that stuff really served 415 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 2: to set Trump off. And the pope had met with 416 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: Axelrod right, and so Trump was wondering if that was 417 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 2: a connection to all this. I don't think it was, 418 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 2: By the way, I would add, popes meet with pretty 419 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: much everybody. I mean, Francis met with with with Francis 420 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: met with atheists. I remember Nuke Ingrish told me a 421 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: couple of years ago. He said, well, it was okay 422 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: for Jesus to meet with tax collect and prostitutes. I 423 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: guess the Pope can meet with Nancy Pelosi, right, And 424 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 2: by the way, the Pope would meet with Donald Trump too, 425 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: although Trump said last week that he doesn't think he 426 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 2: wants to meet with the pope. He should meet with 427 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: the pope. They get along, because Trump in private meetings 428 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: gets along with everybody, so he needs to They both 429 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: need to cool it off, pull back. I think Trump 430 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: already is a little bit but still, that Trump eruption 431 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 2: was really pretty shocking and unprecedented. 432 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: You were suggesting a moment ago with sixteen minutes, that 433 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: there is a little bit of the left staging a 434 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: conflict here between Trump and the Pope, magnifying it, maybe 435 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: bringing out these other cardinals to say what the Pope 436 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't say. And you have said in in fact, in 437 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: a recent article just coming out today, but also in 438 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: the book, that we should understand that Pope Leo is 439 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: a Republican and a conservative. Now I highlight this because 440 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: because we've been treated to social media clips over the 441 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: last several days basically trying to portray the Pope as 442 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: a leftist. Hey, here's the picture of the Pope in 443 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties protesting against protesting for some nuclear deployments, 444 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: or here's the Pope on climate change, or here's the 445 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: Pope on gun control. Can you lay out briefly the 446 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: record of the Pope as being as you say, because 447 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: I don't think most people know this a in fact 448 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: confirmed Republican and also a conservative. 449 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they should dig up pictures of Robert Francis Pravos 450 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: right marching in the March for Life in Washington, d c. 451 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: And the very first of them, going back to the seventies, 452 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: of him at Villanova, which was left wing and the 453 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: still left wing. He was probably one of the only 454 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: conservatives at Villanova, which is supposed to be in Augustinian University, 455 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: starting the pro life club. He is. We know for 456 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: a fact, all right, that he he voted in the 457 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 2: Republican primaries when he came back from Peru in the 458 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 2: twenty tents. I quoted the article for American Spectator that 459 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: I did today. He voted like twenty ten, twenty twelve, 460 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, twenty eighteen, twenty twenty four. I don't think 461 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: he voted in the voted in the general in twenty twenty. 462 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: It's off the top of my head, but I have 463 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: all the years in the article He even voted absentee 464 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 2: ballot from the Vatican in twenty twenty four. So it's 465 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: quite possible that Leo the fourteenth, as Robert Fantis Praebo's 466 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 2: voted for Donald Trump. All right, It's entirely possible that 467 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 2: he did. He's not a democrat, he's not a liberal, 468 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: and he's conservative. I quote in the article statements that 469 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: he made during the Benedict papacy against homosexuality, euthanasia, same 470 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: sex marriage, all this stuff, by the way, all stuff 471 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump would never say, because Trump is, you know, 472 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: always been liberal on kind of LGBTQ issues, right, So 473 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: he's always been a conservative. And also people should understand this. 474 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: I don't think they get it, simply part of the problem. 475 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: You and I go way back, and we understand philosophical conservatism, 476 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: especially on Ronald Reagan. We know Russell Kirk and Edmund 477 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: Burke and Buckley and Chesterton and all these different people. 478 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: To be a conservative is to believe in biblical law, 479 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: natural law, enduring moral order, right, divine law, the belief 480 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: in tradition that you really can't be a pope and 481 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: be a liberal, right, you could be a pope and 482 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: have some left wing positions like Francis did. But about 483 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: the only place where you could say that Leo the 484 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: fourteenth is liberal would be I don't know, maybe on 485 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: maybe maybe on immigration, maybe in opposing Trump on Iran. 486 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: Oh the wait, I bet pep you Cannon opposes Trump 487 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: on Iran. You want to call him a liberal, but 488 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: I could read statements to you. In fact here this 489 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: is the Trump, this is the Pope in November twenty 490 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 2: twenty five, Dinesh on immigration, November twenty twenty five. This 491 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: is a few months ago. If someone is in the 492 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 2: United States illegally, there are ways to address this. There 493 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 2: are courts, there is a judicial system. I believe there 494 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 2: are many problems in the system. Okay, And then he 495 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: said this, no one has said that the United States 496 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: should have open borders, by the way. I guess some have, 497 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: but this Pope hasn't. And then Pope Leo the fourteenth 498 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: said this, I think every country has the right to 499 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: determine who enters, how and when. Unquote. So I mean, 500 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: and that's basically Donald Trump's position. Now that bishops right 501 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 2: aren't always as nuanced in their statements like that, but 502 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: the Pope understands, especially being an American that countries have borders, 503 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 2: that a president has a constitutional responsibility to enforce the 504 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 2: borders right, but the pope also understands that you should 505 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: treat every migrant right with dignity. And also this is 506 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: key too for people to understand. The pope isn't pope 507 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: of the United States. Of course, he's the pope of 508 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 2: the Universal Catholic Church. He's the pope of an organization 509 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 2: that has no borders. So his constituency, if you will, 510 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: is the world it's borderless. He wants people that are 511 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 2: immigrants to be taken care of. The president has a 512 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: different constituency, and I think Leo actually understands that and 513 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: has not made any statements on that that if you 514 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: really unpack him to look at him carefully, should offend 515 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: Trump supporters all that much. 516 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: You know, let me highlight a couple of things you 517 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: just said, because I want to emphasize them. The first 518 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: one is the fact that I think you're saying that 519 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: at the deepest level, conservatism isn't just a set of 520 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: policy positions, whether on gun control or even immigration. It 521 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: is this kind of belief in an enduring moral order. 522 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: And of course, for a pope he has a portfolio, right, 523 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: In other words, his portfolio is not to make prudential 524 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: observations about tax cuts. So the Trump plan it is 525 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: to sustain this a sort of moral landscape and connected 526 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: to the spiritual life. And you're saying when when you 527 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: look at the portfolio, he is solidly conservative, contrary to 528 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: what many people think, and perhaps in some tension with 529 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: his predecessor, who was clearly into liberation theology, clearly more 530 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: liberal in a more fundamental way, even on some of 531 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: these even on some of these moral issues. Now, you know, 532 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: I think part of what's going on here with Trump 533 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: and the Pope is I would call it jurisdictional. And 534 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, well, you suggested, Hey, 535 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: the Pope is a universal guy. Trump is a Trump 536 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: is America. First. That's one difference. I think the other 537 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: one is that the Pope is in fact looking at 538 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: this moral and philosophically, and Trump is looking at it 539 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: almost like the world is a prized piece of real estate. 540 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: I argued this on my show a week or two ago. 541 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: Trump is sort of like looking at at the Iranians 542 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: as disrupting the peaceful real estate, commerce and traffic of 543 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: the world. What I'm getting at is that while the 544 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: Pope is thinking in terms of philosophy and maybe moral principle, 545 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: Trump is an operational guy, and he's thinking more in 546 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: terms of, you know, how do I get the good 547 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: Muslims who care about robotics and AI to come over 548 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: to my side and the seventh century Muslims that want 549 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: to you know, take us back? How do I get 550 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: them out of the picture? How do I outmaneuver them? 551 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: So to speak? Do you agree that we're we have 552 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: two guys who are talking past each other to a degree. 553 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so well said. And in fact, the 554 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: Pope said his response to Donald Trump the first time 555 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 2: he ever used the word Trump, by the way, on 556 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: the airplane last week flying to Algeria. And it was 557 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: after the truth social posts and the reporters started, you know, 558 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 2: asking him over and over again, what about Trump? What 559 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 2: about Trump? What about Trump? What about Trump? And that's 560 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 2: where he said, I have no fear of the Trump administration. 561 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 2: And he still don't used the word Donald Trump. He said, 562 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 2: I don't want to get in a debate with him. 563 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: I'm not a politician, right, he's not a policy maker, right. 564 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: You know, my job is to spread the Gospel of Jesus, 565 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 2: to talk about peace. And the only time prior to 566 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: that that the Pope even directly responded to specifically something 567 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 2: Donald Trump said. Up to that point, he was talking 568 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: about praying for peace, peace visuals, laying down your arms, that, 569 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: you know, that kind of general stuff. When Donald Trump 570 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 2: a couple tuesdays ago made that really unsettling statement right 571 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: tonight at eight o'clock, an entire civilization is going to 572 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 2: be rendered extinct or wipe off the face of the 573 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 2: earth or something like that, and he said, I hope 574 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: that won't happen, but it probably will. I mean, that 575 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 2: shook me up right, and even I thought, well, this 576 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 2: is Trump, He's not going to do it, right, This 577 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 2: is art of the deal stuff. He makes these you know, 578 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: wild threats, and that brings people to the and he 579 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: didn't end up doing it. But that was the first 580 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: time that the Pope said he didn't use the word 581 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump or Trump administration. He said, statements like like 582 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 2: statements about wiping out entire civilizations are morally unacceptable. And 583 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: Trump folks might not like the fact that the Pope 584 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: responded there, but good gosh, man, good grief. I mean, 585 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: if the pope can't at a moment like that, the 586 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 2: Pope has to come out and say something. I mean, 587 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: whether it's Trump or Putin, I don't want to equate 588 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: Trump with Putin. You know, pick some liberal leader in Canada, 589 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: Trudeau or or you know, some British prime any any 590 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 2: leader that makes a statement like that, the Pope's obligated 591 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: to come out at that point and say talk about it. 592 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 2: Wiping out entire extinct, extinct, entire civilizations is morally unacceptable. 593 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: No one should get upset that he makes a statement 594 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 2: like that. But Trump did you know? Trump kind of 595 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 2: launched after that, And you know, we have a problem 596 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 2: with this president. He's unbelievably sensitive to any criticism of 597 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: his policies, and so were his biggest supporters, right. I mean, 598 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 2: I've got an email box full of emails from Catholics 599 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: who will not question Donald Trump, right, but just exoriate 600 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 2: their pope up and down. They're not shy about criticizing 601 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: him at all. It's this really weird. You and I 602 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 2: were able to criticize Reagan. We both wrote books about Reagan. 603 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: It's okay, It's okay to criticize your hero. You don't 604 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 2: help him by accommodating and making excuses for his worst outbursts. 605 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: Even his wife criticizes him. Folks, his kids criticize him. 606 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 2: It's okay, it's okay, it's okay if the Pope does too. 607 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: It's almost as if the Trump supporter is obviously me 608 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: and Clue to see Trump and his rhetoric as something 609 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: that is not to be taken for what it says. 610 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: I mean, here's Trump. For example, He says, I'm looking 611 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: at his post on the Pope. I don't want a 612 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: pope who thinks it's okay for Iran to have a 613 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: nuclear weapon. Now you know better than me, but to 614 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: my knowledge, the Pope has never said it is okay 615 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. He also goes, 616 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to pope who thinks this terrible America 617 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: attacked Venezuela. And then he says, I don't want a 618 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: pope who criticizes the president of the United States, because 619 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing exactly what I was elected in a landslide 620 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: to do. Again, you know, we have two people talking 621 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: past each other because the Pope is not criticizing Trump's 622 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: referendum or his mandate, but it's quite possible that the 623 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: American people overwhelmingly elected Trump to do something bad, and 624 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: if Trump does something bad, it's the Pope's to call 625 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: him on it. So you have here. I think this 626 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: very strange kind of rhetorical back and forth. But let 627 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: me zoom in here a little bit, because the Augustinian 628 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: tradition that you refer to early is the just war tradition. 629 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: It is not a wooly headed pacifism. It sets precise 630 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: and in fact rather clear criteria for when a war 631 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: is just Now the Pope has not done a just 632 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: war analysis of the Iran expedition, but I'd like to 633 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: attempt one very briefly as I understand it. Some of 634 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: the criteria and the just war, I'm not getting all 635 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: of them in here, but the first one is, you know, 636 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: you have to the war has to be have a 637 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: just cause. You must have a just purpose. Number two, 638 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: it has to be declared by a legitimate authority. Trump must, 639 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: in fact and Nadanya who have the authority. They can't 640 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: be usurpers or just private citizens declaring war. They have 641 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: to be They have to have a legitimate authority to 642 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: do this. Number Three, it has to have a reasonable 643 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: prospect of success, that they are likely to achieve. This 644 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: outcome that debatable, isn't it? Increasingly that's debatable. I'm not 645 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: saying any of this is not debatable. Perhaps the more 646 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: important ones I'm about to get to. You can't target civilians. 647 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: Civilians do die in war, and they do die sometimes 648 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: as a result of collateral damage, but you can't aim 649 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: to kill them. And that's why, for example, this I'm 650 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: ending a civilization. I mean, if Trump actually meant I'm 651 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: going to wipe out ninety million Iranians, this would be morally, 652 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: I think, utterly indefensible from the point of view of 653 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: the just war tradition. 654 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 2: I said that use the words morally unacceptable. 655 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: Morally unacceptable. And then I think that perhaps the trickiest 656 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: one here, which is this that it has to be 657 00:40:54,560 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: a defensive war. You can't just sort of set out 658 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: to go attack somebody else that has not either seriously 659 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: threatened you or perhaps even attacked you. Now, the phrase 660 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: war of choice. Did the Pope use that phrase war 661 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: of choice? This is a war of choice? 662 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 2: I can't remember if he did. Now on the point 663 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 2: though about the last one, I think a country like 664 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 2: Israel would have more of a just war case, right, 665 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 2: because they actually were being attacked and hit by the Iranians. Right. 666 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 2: The United States was never actually hit by anything. Now, 667 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 2: you could argue, but Trump is preemptively trying to get 668 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 2: the Iranians stop them from getting nuclear weapons. And even 669 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 2: then one could say, yeah, but even if they got one, 670 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 2: they're not gonna be able to hit the United States 671 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 2: with it, right, but they could hit Israel in other 672 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 2: countries with it. So he's trying to do the world 673 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 2: a favor, Israel a favor, the Middle East, of favor, 674 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 2: peace a favor by stopping them from getting a new 675 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 2: but get it does get more sticky there. And there's 676 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 2: also another just war condition that you should have. You 677 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 2: should have exhausted all possibility, possibilities and avenues for peace. 678 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 2: I talked to Mike Pence about this. Obviously, Donald Trump's 679 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 2: former vice president, and he's a fellow at Grove City College, 680 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 2: so I've become pretty close to him and talked to 681 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 2: him about it a lot. And Pence told me he said, 682 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 2: he said, you know, we actually consider all those just 683 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 2: war criteria, he said, we don't sit down in a 684 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 2: room with them all on a blackboard and look at 685 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 2: him and check him off. But all of this goes 686 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 2: through our head. And he said, I could tell you 687 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 2: in the first four years of the Trump administration, and 688 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,360 Speaker 2: I'm not quoting him directly, but he basically told me, 689 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 2: you know, we had dozens to hundreds of you know, 690 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 2: reached times that we reached out with the Iranians and 691 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 2: negotiations and it never went anywhere. Right, So they felt 692 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 2: like they exhausted all diplomatic procedures. So did the Bush 693 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 2: administration with Sodom Hussein. Right. And and in the case 694 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 2: the Bush administration argued, who else said this? Donald Rumsfeld 695 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 2: said that Dick Cheney said it. We don't want our 696 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 2: next warning to be a mushroom cloud over Manhattan, right, 697 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 2: we don't want another nine to eleven. So we're taking 698 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 2: out Saddam now, Right. Saddam is attacked preemptively. And I 699 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 2: don't know that just war precludes preemptive action. I think 700 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 2: you could probably argue that preemptive action is acceptable. But 701 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: when you start going through all those very carefully, yeah, 702 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 2: it becomes more sticky. And for the record, this Pope 703 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: has not come out and said as an expert on Augustine, 704 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 2: as a son of Augustine as the head of the 705 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 2: International Order, Augustinian Order, I declare this unjust now, Bishop 706 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 2: Cardinal McElroy did. But this is why mackelroy shouldn't be 707 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 2: the position that he's in, right, And that's what really 708 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 2: set off Donald Trump. But the Pope is much more thoughtful, 709 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 2: much more measured. This guy has a doctor in canon 710 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 2: law from the Saint Thomas Aquinas, the Pontifical Academy, the 711 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 2: Angelican and Rome. This guy's no slouch. And also, two folks, 712 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 2: you know, we got we all got to admit, right, 713 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 2: Donald Trump is not a theologian, he's not intellectual, and 714 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,720 Speaker 2: he's most certainly not as well read and well versed 715 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 2: in the morality of war as the Pope is. So 716 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 2: I would cut the Pope here a little bit of 717 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 2: slack on this, right. I mean, it's also betther than 718 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 2: Trump does. 719 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: It's also worth saying, Paul, that the just war tradition, 720 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: although it has deep roots in Catholicism Augustine through a 721 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: Quinas and then later, it's also in the Protestant Church. 722 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: In other words, this is a This is a Christian doctrine, 723 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: not uniquely a Catholic doctrine. In the way that say, 724 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: the birth control humani Vite is a Catholic and cyclical 725 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: that most Protestants would not go along with. It also 726 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: seems to me that on this issue of who's attacked, 727 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: there is an argument here for collective action or treaty. 728 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: And here's what I mean. In World War Two, the 729 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: Nazis did not attack Great Britain. They attacked Poland in 730 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, but Great Britain declared war on Nazi Germany. 731 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,879 Speaker 1: Why it was because Great Britain had a defense pact 732 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,280 Speaker 1: with Poland and the Nazis had in a sense attacked 733 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: one of the allies of that pact. So arguably here too, 734 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: the United States and Israel are joined at the hip. 735 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: The Iranians are one of the key planners and orchestrators 736 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: of October seventh, not alone but with other groups. Iran 737 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: is of course responsible for Hezbullah, the supporters of Hamas. 738 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: So the idea that Iran quote didn't attack first is 739 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: not really right, not to mention a fifty year tradition 740 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: right of the hostages the bay Root bombing. I mean, 741 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: Iran has been at this for a for a pretty 742 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 1: long time. Let's turn in the time, we have led 743 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: to another another important topic I want to touch on, 744 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,879 Speaker 1: and that is the Pope's view of Islam. I say 745 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,280 Speaker 1: this because it seems to me that and the Pope 746 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: understands this as well as anyone, that while in the 747 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: Christian tradition you've always had this kind of distinction between 748 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 1: between the scope of the church and the scope of government, 749 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: now that distinction has become blurred in many times in history, 750 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: but nevertheless, it goes right back to Jesus render and 751 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: to Caesar the things that are Caesar's And this creates 752 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,839 Speaker 1: the scope of religious freedom, right because after all, if 753 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: there is some distinction between religion and government, then it's 754 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: possible to have multiple religious commitments within a single society 755 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: of laws. Now, Islam rejects this. Islam is based on 756 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,800 Speaker 1: the idea that there is no meaningful distinction between religion 757 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: and government, and that the ultimate goal of all serious 758 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: Muslims I underline the word serious, is in fact to 759 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: bring the world under Islamic rule and Islamic law. Now 760 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: that may not seem practically something you can do tomorrow 761 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: or maybe even in ten years, but it is in 762 00:46:53,480 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: fact a very clearly stated aspiration. So given that, given 763 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: what we know is not just the turbulence in the 764 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: Middle East, but powerful Islamic infiltration of Australia, Canada, large 765 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: parts of Europe, the United States. I mean, the Pope's 766 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: remarks to me seemed a little It seemed not to 767 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: show a kind of urgency or awareness of the threat 768 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: that this Islamic project poses to Western democracy and religious 769 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 1: freedom in the West. 770 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 2: Well, the Pope condemned the I think he used the 771 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 2: word words terrorist extremism in Sydney. He's done that a 772 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 2: number of times already in just his first this point 773 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 2: eleven months of his papacy, but really a bunch in 774 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 2: the first six months of his papacy. And remember the 775 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 2: trip to Turkey as well. He went into the Hagias 776 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 2: Sophia and refused to pray, right, he said, no, I'm 777 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 2: just going to walk around a bit. Right. Previous popes 778 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 2: had And by the way, I hate to say this, 779 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 2: as such an admirer of John Paul the Second, I 780 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,240 Speaker 2: never want to bring it up, but uh, he kissed 781 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 2: the Quran. He publicly grabbed the Quran and kissed it, right, 782 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 2: really right, so they remember the and the benefit of 783 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 2: the sixteenth The Reagansburg address. So the Pope has not 784 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 2: called out radical Islam. But again I don't expect him 785 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 2: to write he he's pushing for peace and unity, humanism, 786 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 2: you know, trying to bring peace in the world is literal. 787 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 2: First word from the Logi at May twenty five was peace, 788 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,399 Speaker 2: he said in an Italian La pace si contuti boy, 789 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 2: peace b with all of you. So I don't expect 790 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 2: him to do that. I don't. I don't expect him 791 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 2: to condemn radical Islam. Now I would like him, yeah, 792 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 2: I guess. 793 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,320 Speaker 3: But. 794 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 2: Regime. 795 00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the Pope is the Pope is in some 796 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: ways the most titular prominent defender of Christendom right, and 797 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 1: there is a long history. Read the Crusades, going for 798 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: the back, the Battle of Lepanto. So if the Pope 799 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 1: isn't going to criticize radical Islam, I mean I'm not 800 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 1: asking him to criticize it. I mean, shouldn't he be 801 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 1: criticizing it on religious grounds? 802 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? They generally don't in modern times. And by the way, 803 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 2: I must add so, and he's only he hasn't been 804 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 2: pope for a full year yet, right, So I mean, 805 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,600 Speaker 2: you know, who knows what could come. But they generally 806 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,839 Speaker 2: haven't done that. And you know the days of Popeious 807 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 2: the Tenth meeting with Theodor Hertzel and saying, we cannot 808 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 2: recognize the nation of Israel because you have not recognized 809 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. Right, you have, Jesus Christ walked that land 810 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,399 Speaker 2: and you have not recognized it. And then later John 811 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,279 Speaker 2: Paul the second apologizes to Jews for that. So we're 812 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 2: in this period of about the last fifty sixty or 813 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 2: so years of the papacy of just this, you know, 814 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,839 Speaker 2: soft a humanism where popes generally don't criticize the other 815 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 2: major religions. It's just kind of the way it is. 816 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,720 Speaker 2: And is it part of Paul makes Leo naive about Islam? 817 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 2: But it's just kind of what they do. Yeah, And I 818 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 2: don't even say that that I support that, but that's 819 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 2: as a historian of the papacy, I can tell you 820 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 2: that Leo here is not doing anything different. 821 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: Is it partly? Do you think? Is it partly? Do 822 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: you think? Paul? And I would say this to some degree, 823 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: I suppose even of immigration, you have the the Catholic 824 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: churches is a large institution, right, it has it has 825 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 1: financial interests, it has Catholics who live in Muslim lands. 826 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: It has so, in other words, they're subject to Muslim authorities, 827 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:50,399 Speaker 1: and the Pope to some degree, it may be, has 828 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: to be a little bit of a diplomat. Now he 829 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: can't be. In other words, he's a religious leader and spokesman, 830 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: but he's not speaking in a moral vacuum. He knows 831 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: that what he says is going to be taken into 832 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:07,439 Speaker 1: account by Muslim authorities in countries like Indonesia and Pakistan, 833 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: and there are Christians in those countries. And so could 834 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: it be that the pope and part he's also the 835 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 1: head of state. People forget the Vatican is a state 836 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 1: that the Pope is in a way that's maybe not 837 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: fully recognized, playing this dual role of also exercising a 838 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,920 Speaker 1: political and diplomatic function, although it sometimes comes out in 839 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of moral tones or moral language. But the Church 840 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: has other interests at stake, That's what I'm getting at. 841 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, he has to keep a lid on things. And 842 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,000 Speaker 2: I mentioned the Regensburg address that Benedict the sixteenth gave 843 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 2: the man that Islamic rope flipped over that and it 844 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,160 Speaker 2: wasn't even all that harsh of a criticism and that 845 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 2: in fact, Pope Francis, when he was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergolio, 846 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 2: was very critical of that. So that is just undermine 847 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 2: decades of outreach to Muslims, right of trying to. And 848 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 2: then Francis goes and makes this horrible statement in esh 849 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 2: I use it on my Middle East politics course that 850 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,160 Speaker 2: Grow City College. If I think it's verbatim something like this, 851 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,719 Speaker 2: every reading of the Koran shows that the Koran is 852 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,319 Speaker 2: opposed to every form of violence or something like that. Well, 853 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,919 Speaker 2: I mean, no, read no, come on, come on, read 854 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,799 Speaker 2: the book. It says over and over again, Right, the 855 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 2: infidels chop off the heads of the infidels on the battlefield, right, 856 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,800 Speaker 2: I mean, come on, you know if we say something 857 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 2: different like I believe, you know, I believe that modern 858 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,400 Speaker 2: Muslims right want peace like I do, and are against 859 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 2: the bioce. Okay, cool, all right, great, great, we can 860 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 2: all debate that, right, but don't say something like if 861 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,840 Speaker 2: you read the Koran carefully, it's opposed to every form 862 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 2: of violence. I don't think you'll see statements like that 863 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 2: from Leo because he's more careful, he's more thoughtful. And 864 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 2: it's also why he's in Africa right now, and he 865 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 2: doesn't want, you know, to launch a religious war in 866 00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:01,560 Speaker 2: Africa between Christians and Muslims right now. That's right. As 867 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 2: Bishop of Rome, head of the Universal Catholic Church, preaching peace, 868 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 2: he's not going to be calming out radical Islam right now. 869 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 2: It's just not what he's going to do. Yeah, for 870 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:12,240 Speaker 2: better or worse. 871 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's for worse. And here's why. Well, 872 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,560 Speaker 1: I would agree that the Pope's job is not to 873 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: perhaps declare some new crusade against Islam. He doesn't want 874 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,279 Speaker 1: to do that. I do think that he should be 875 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: more fiercely partisan toward the Christians who are being persecuted 876 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: in African countries. Right the Christians appear to be I 877 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: won't say turning the other cheek, but they are on 878 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: the defensive against these violent incursions from Muslims in the 879 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:49,280 Speaker 1: name of jihad. So this has deep historical echoes, civilizational echoes. 880 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,520 Speaker 1: And if the Pope is silent on it, then people, 881 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,719 Speaker 1: you know, Muslim leaders aren't silent about it. They're aggressively 882 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,399 Speaker 1: on the Muslim side of this, and they would love 883 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,400 Speaker 1: to see these African countries where by the way, Christianity 884 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 1: has finally gained a strong foothold for the first time. 885 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got these African countries where thirty forty 886 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: percent of the population is Christian. Who are they going to? 887 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 1: Many of them Catholic, and they're looking to the Pope 888 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,879 Speaker 1: as their defender. So I guess this is what I'm 889 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,800 Speaker 1: getting at. It seems to me prudentially, and there's strong 890 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,880 Speaker 1: moral principle on his side, so that if he subordinates 891 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,720 Speaker 1: those concerns to hey, I want people to get along 892 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,600 Speaker 1: with a blad prescription of peace, it seems to miss 893 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: what is actually happening on the ground, isn't it. 894 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't argue with that, and he has and 895 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 2: he will, and he is right now condemning persecution of 896 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,279 Speaker 2: Christians in those countries, But he doesn't say that it's 897 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 2: being done by the hands of radical islamis right. He 898 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 2: leaves that out. Now everybody knows that that's what he's 899 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 2: referring to, right, but he's not saying it explicitly. Yeah, 900 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,399 Speaker 2: So I agree, right. 901 00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,800 Speaker 1: I think one thing you've shown, Paul in this conversation 902 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: is that the Pope is going to take these enduring 903 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,960 Speaker 1: moral principles and articulate positions that apply to the world. 904 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:15,200 Speaker 1: But it is not incumbent on Catholics or Christians, or 905 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: you or me. If the Pope is not speaking, as 906 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,000 Speaker 1: they say ex cathedra, meaning on a fundamental doctrine of 907 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,520 Speaker 1: Catholic moral teaching. If the Pope is opining, you should 908 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,080 Speaker 1: attach some moral weight to it, because it's a serious 909 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,480 Speaker 1: guy and he does have an important position. But reasonable 910 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: people can disagree. Isn't that where we come out on this, 911 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,560 Speaker 1: that we should carefully consider the principles that the Pope 912 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 1: is putting forward. But at the end of the day, 913 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,359 Speaker 1: it comes down to, hey, you know, how does this 914 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: principle of the just war apply in this given situation? 915 00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:00,359 Speaker 1: And that great Christian virtue of prudence or application comes 916 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:00,880 Speaker 1: into play. 917 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And he sees himself as the vicar 918 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,960 Speaker 2: of Christ, right, as a representative of Christ on earth. 919 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,280 Speaker 2: And when he first came out onto that logia Dnesh 920 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,880 Speaker 2: May twenty five and again he's still apace Siam to Dvoid, 921 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,719 Speaker 2: Peace be with all of you. And then everybody applauded 922 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,479 Speaker 2: below the throng below. And then he paused, and he said, 923 00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,800 Speaker 2: these are the first words of the resurrected Jesus Christ 924 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,759 Speaker 2: to the apostles in the upper room, and at that 925 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,279 Speaker 2: moment I may think of Peter, right, I mean, the 926 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,520 Speaker 2: last time that Peter had had made eye contact with Jesus, 927 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,400 Speaker 2: he had denied him three times. So Peter at that 928 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 2: point is first of all, he's thinking a ghost just 929 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,759 Speaker 2: walked into the room, right, But he's probably also at 930 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,760 Speaker 2: that point trembling, not just because he's seen a ghost, 931 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 2: but thinking, well, last time I saw this guy, I 932 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,040 Speaker 2: denied him three times, like he said I was gonna do. 933 00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,720 Speaker 2: But what does Jesus say, Right? He says peace, Peace 934 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 2: be with all of you, and he says that three 935 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,880 Speaker 2: or four more times. And the Pope in that opening 936 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 2: statement used the word peace ten times. So I think 937 00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,760 Speaker 2: what he's trying to say is he's trying to preach 938 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 2: this gospel of peace. So he's not so much interested 939 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 2: in condemning this leader, that action, or that group. Right, 940 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,480 Speaker 2: it's just an all together you know, kind of like 941 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,440 Speaker 2: I mean, most of us when we go to church 942 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 2: on Sunday, we expect our priest or, our pastor to 943 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,520 Speaker 2: be quoting the New Testament, to be quoting the Gospels, 944 00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 2: to be telling us to love your families and love 945 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,480 Speaker 2: your neighbor. You don't expect them to stand up there 946 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,200 Speaker 2: and make pronouncements on what we're doing in a rock, right, 947 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 2: And so I would just urge people to view the 948 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 2: Pope a little bit differently on this and view him 949 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,200 Speaker 2: as the pope rather than as a politician. 950 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: Well, okay, and God, thank you very much. 951 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 2: Great to be with you to anytime, my friend. Good 952 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:46,280 Speaker 2: to see you again. 953 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,640 Speaker 1: There's something big Americans keep forgetting about. Behind the new cycles, 954 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,480 Speaker 1: behind the tariff wars, the conflicts, the ice rates here 955 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: at home, behind all of this, there's an unc comfortable 956 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,360 Speaker 1: truth we all need to admit. We now have nearly 957 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: thirty nine trillion dollars in debt, thirty nine trillion, a 958 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: ticking time bomb that could decimate our economy. That's over 959 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:15,160 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars per US taxpayer. 960 00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,720 Speaker 1: So I want you to ask yourself, am I truly 961 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,440 Speaker 1: protected from this pending disaster? If not, I want you 962 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,280 Speaker 1: to reach out to my partners over at gold Co. 963 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 1: Gold Co is the number one gold and silver company 964 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,560 Speaker 1: in the business, and thousands of Americans are using gold 965 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: Coat to hedge their risks. So get your free twenty 966 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: twenty six Gold and Silver guide and learn how you 967 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,120 Speaker 1: could get ten percent in bonus gold or silver while 968 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 1: supplies last. Go to DNESH goold dot com. That's the 969 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:52,080 Speaker 1: NCHH gold dot com. I'm about to turn sixty five 970 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 1: and people sometimes say to me, Hey, you don't look 971 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,200 Speaker 1: sixty five, and I'm like, sh I'm trying to fool 972 00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 1: the public for the next few years. Well, if you're 973 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,640 Speaker 1: about to turn sixty five already on Medicare, this's some 974 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: important information that you need to know. I've spent my 975 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,800 Speaker 1: life researching government programs, and there are very few programs 976 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:14,680 Speaker 1: more confusing than Medicare. I'm experiencing this issue firsthand. Choosing 977 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,880 Speaker 1: the right Medicare plan is essential for protecting your health 978 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: and wealth, but the government and big insurance don't make 979 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,680 Speaker 1: it easy. It's almost impossible to understand all of your 980 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: options and make an informed decision. Make one misstep, it 981 00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 1: could cost you lifetime penalties or access to the doctors 982 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,360 Speaker 1: you trust. Now, this is why you owe it to 983 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,520 Speaker 1: yourself to call Chapter. They are the only advisors that 984 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 1: search every single plan nationwide and offer unbiased advice. If 985 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: you're already on the best plan, they'll tell you. If not, 986 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,600 Speaker 1: they'll help you switch. And best of all, their help 987 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,440 Speaker 1: is totally free. They've helped me, and I know they 988 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,880 Speaker 1: can help you as well. Click the link below and 989 00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: connect with my friends over at Chapter Today. My latest film, 990 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:04,120 Speaker 1: The Dragon's Prophecy is now available on YouTube, on iTunes 991 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: and on Prime. Very easy to watch, so check it out. 992 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:17,600 Speaker 1: Here's the trailer. Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, 993 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: the revival of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible. 994 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,960 Speaker 1: The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. 995 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,720 Speaker 3: What if there was going to be a resurrection of 996 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,200 Speaker 3: another people, an enemy people of Israel? 997 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: The Dragon's Prophecy