Speaker 1: Life Audio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Woman podcast. I am
Speaker 2: Alana here with Jamie. How's it going?
Speaker 1: Going great. How about you?
Speaker 2: I'm good. Happy back-to-school season to all the parents out
Speaker 2: there and people getting kids or grandkids or neighbor kids
Speaker 2: or foster kids or whoever you're getting off to school.
Speaker 2: Happy back-to-school season to all the teachers and school workers
Speaker 2: and How's the school year started for your family?
Speaker 1: It's been good. It's been a lot of moving parts,
Speaker 1: but the kids are excited about their schools and their classes.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited for the school year. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and how about one more special blessing to families
Speaker 2: who have kids start in college or away from home
Speaker 2: for the first time too, or new empty nesters or
Speaker 2: partial empty nesters, whatever season you're in. And happy fall,
Speaker 2: I guess, or spring if you're in the lower hemisphere.
Speaker 2: And I'm really excited for today's topic. It is a
Speaker 2: question that I have been mulling over and finally feel
Speaker 2: like I'm at the point where like, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you're this way. I need time to like stew
Speaker 2: over certain questions before I would be able to like
Speaker 2: talk through them. And so like if I said, hey, Jamie,
Speaker 2: give me your thoughts about this and you've never thought
Speaker 2: about it before. It might be a little hard, but.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't like getting caught off guard.
Speaker 1: And also, I have an input CliftonStrength, so I like
Speaker 1: to research and kind of make sure that my opinion
Speaker 1: is based on something solid. We're kind of jumping into
Speaker 1: this one, so I apologize in advance if I say
Speaker 1: anything off the cuff and people are like, that is
Speaker 1: not biblically accurate.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's funny because Your input, I think, works
Speaker 2: in the same way that my intellection does. So Jamie
Speaker 2: and I are using CliftonStrengths languages. It's sort of like
Speaker 2: a personality test, but a little more in-depth and tailored
Speaker 2: more toward, like, I think it was designed for business people.
Speaker 2: But for me, the intellection side is I need to
Speaker 2: think about something before... Being able to really discuss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like ruminate on it and kind of let it
Speaker 1: rattle around in your mind a little bit.
Speaker 2: So while you're doing the research, I'm just doing the pacing.
Speaker 2: I love that. And then we put our two brains together.
Speaker 2: So I've had plenty of time to intellect on this.
Speaker 2: You have had zero time to input on this. So
Speaker 2: the question though is, A, how do we know if
Speaker 2: it is our intuition speaking to us or the Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2: And what I want to focus on even more importantly
Speaker 2: is B, the dangers of assigning Holy Spirit discernment with
Speaker 2: all capital letters to what is the gift of discernment.
Speaker 2: Because if we had a Venn diagram, there would be
Speaker 2: some things that would be just intuition, some things that
Speaker 2: would be just Holy Spirit discernment, and some things in
Speaker 2: the middle. And I think that to live wise lives...
Speaker 2: We need to know where the promptings and desires and
Speaker 2: thoughts are coming from and which we can pinpoint. We're
Speaker 2: never going to get 100% correct, and that's okay, too.
Speaker 2: That's part of humility, in my opinion. But I am
Speaker 2: very excited to talk through this. Do you have a
Speaker 2: verse of the day for us?
Speaker 1: I do. This is John 10, verse 27, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to read it from the New American Standard Bible.
Speaker 1: because I'm using the lexicon and I just want to
Speaker 1: comment on a few of the actual translations from Strong's,
Speaker 1: just of the Greek that it comes from. So it's,
Speaker 1: my sheep hear my voice and I know them and
Speaker 1: they follow me. And I would read this and think,
Speaker 1: my sheep hear my voice. You know, sheep are what
Speaker 1: Christians are referred to, followers of Christ. They follow the
Speaker 1: shepherd who is Jesus. So those of us who are Christians,
Speaker 1: who are believers, we hear his voice. and He knows us,
Speaker 1: and we follow Him. And so I think what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today is recognizing His voice. And this, when
Speaker 1: I looked at the lexicon, is not exactly that. The word,
Speaker 1: it's to hear or listen, and that means listen to Him.
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean discern. And so we're still a
Speaker 1: little stuck, even with this verse, because yes, I want
Speaker 1: to listen to Jesus. And we know in scripture, those
Speaker 1: are his words. We know that for sure in the Bible.
Speaker 1: But what we're talking about is a little bit different
Speaker 1: from that. And so maybe I should have chosen a
Speaker 1: different verse, but it's too late.
Speaker 2: No, I think that what you just verbally went through
Speaker 2: is the question we're talking about. How do we know
Speaker 2: that difference between recognizing, hearing, listening? So I want to
Speaker 2: start with some definitions like we often do. I also
Speaker 2: want to start with some extremes because I think if
Speaker 2: we can picture the extremes, that helps us to hone
Speaker 2: in on what we're really talking about. So when I
Speaker 2: talk about over-spiritualizing our intuition, the extreme version of that,
Speaker 2: and I bet we have all either encountered people like
Speaker 2: this in real life or like in our caricatured imagination. it's, oh, Jamie,
Speaker 2: I really feel like God is not pleased when you
Speaker 2: wear red.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, it's very clear that God doesn't care that you
Speaker 2: happen to be wearing a bright red shirt today, which
Speaker 2: looks lovely on you, by the way.
Speaker 1: And it's very clear that I.
Speaker 2: Am forcing my opinion on you through God's voice, which
Speaker 2: is so heretical. It is so dangerous. I'm going to
Speaker 2: go so far as to call this an example of
Speaker 2: using the Lord's name in vain. When I take my
Speaker 2: opinion and I tell you that God is saying it,
Speaker 2: then I have just, as I see it, used the
Speaker 2: Lord's name in vain. I have invoked God for me.
Speaker 2: extremely selfish purposes. So that was the real extreme. But
Speaker 2: it can get trickier. It can get into, well, where
Speaker 2: does God want us to go on a mission trip? Oh,
Speaker 2: God must really want us to go to Hawaii. And
Speaker 2: I say that kind of as a joke, but Hawaii
Speaker 2: could use missionaries just like everywhere else in the world.
Speaker 2: But how do I know if my call to Hawaii
Speaker 2: is Is my body lacking vitamin D because I live
Speaker 2: in Alaska? You know, but if I say God's calling
Speaker 2: me to Hawaii, A, I sound really, really special because
Speaker 2: I can hear God. B, nobody can argue with that.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, oh, don't take it up with me.
Speaker 2: Take it up with God, you know, and who's going
Speaker 2: to go against God? And then it also brings sin
Speaker 2: into it. It means that if I don't go to Hawaii,
Speaker 2: I am sinning against the Lord. So those are examples
Speaker 2: of how we might use personal opinion and put that
Speaker 2: under the label of Holy Spirit discernment. And then I
Speaker 2: think we do it with our intuition. And I want
Speaker 2: to say this. It's not bad to have opinions. It's
Speaker 2: not bad. to hope that at some point God tells
Speaker 2: Jamie's family to move and become our next-door neighbors. Like,
Speaker 2: it's not bad to have desires. What is bad is
Speaker 2: when I come to you and say, God has told
Speaker 2: me that you need to uproot your family and come
Speaker 2: be our next-door neighbors. Because you can't argue with that.
Speaker 2: And then somebody's sinning. If you don't do it, you're sinning.
Speaker 2: And It can be very coercive. So some churches and
Speaker 2: high control groups will use it, but it can come
Speaker 2: across in even the most well-intentioned well-meaning. I'm going to
Speaker 2: give you a caricature that again, I feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of people have encountered or can imagine of a
Speaker 2: person who is so flaky, but it's all God's fault.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, oh, Sorry I made you
Speaker 2: wait for an hour. God and I were having a conversation. Okay.
Speaker 2: What do you say to that? You can't say anything
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 1: No. I have a friend who knew someone that was
Speaker 1: like that. And she kind of told me about it
Speaker 1: in a like almost attitude of admiration for this person.
Speaker 1: She said, this person is never on time. They are
Speaker 1: always late for stuff. but they just are always following God.
Speaker 1: And so it's like, oh, exactly. I think the example
Speaker 1: that was given to me was, I was late because
Speaker 1: the Lord told me to stop and have a conversation
Speaker 1: with this person. And so therefore I was late for
Speaker 1: our prearranged meeting. And just like anything, I think there's
Speaker 1: absolutely a time for that. I think there are times
Speaker 1: when you get interrupted and I will find myself just
Speaker 1: being like, you know what? This is what I was
Speaker 1: meant to be doing right now and not doing this
Speaker 1: other thing. But just like everything, it could be corrupted.
Speaker 1: It could be manipulated because I'm not going to place
Speaker 1: judgment on that. person that was doing that because I
Speaker 1: don't know them. But it could be a sense of
Speaker 1: self-importance of, I'm always about the Lord's work. So you
Speaker 1: little people don't have any bearing on my schedule because
Speaker 1: I'm doing the Lord's work. And you might be part
Speaker 1: of that and you might not, or you might be
Speaker 1: part of that later than you wanted to, because that
Speaker 1: appointment is overridden by my special hearing from God. That
Speaker 1: attitude can become part of it. Or it could also,
Speaker 1: without being quite as like haughty, it could become an
Speaker 1: excuse for Like your mindset could be flipped and you
Speaker 1: could just be like, oh, I'm it's OK that I'm
Speaker 1: not on time ever. The Lord meant for me to
Speaker 1: oversleep because I was maybe having a dream that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think there are two pitfalls like that. But I
Speaker 1: do think that it would be bad to be afraid
Speaker 1: of those God changes in direction. But in the name
Speaker 1: of keeping a schedule, because you could be so bound
Speaker 1: to your schedule that you miss God's work. people's time
Speaker 1: is also important and you should be considerate and you
Speaker 1: should be. So I don't know, like everything, I'm wishy-washy
Speaker 1: and in the middle.
Speaker 2: So I feel like there are certain things that aren't
Speaker 2: good or bad. They aren't God or Satan. They're just
Speaker 2: your personality. There are some personalities that are flighty. There
Speaker 2: are some personalities that have a hard time being on time.
Speaker 2: It can be a little annoying to people that they're inconveniencing,
Speaker 2: and that could be where it ends. But the problem
Speaker 2: is when it turns into something that is so spiritual.
Speaker 2: So here's what it would look like if I over-spiritualized
Speaker 2: my creative intuition. Let's say you're my publisher. And I'm
Speaker 2: writing a book and I have signed a contract. I
Speaker 2: have given you my word that I am going to
Speaker 2: write this book for you. And you've already given me
Speaker 2: some money for it. Okay. And then I come to you.
Speaker 2: I say, Jamie, you are such a great sister in
Speaker 2: the Lord. I totally know you're going to understand this.
Speaker 2: God has called me to another project. So I am
Speaker 2: going to be focused on that. And I will have
Speaker 2: to come back. I have to lay this down on
Speaker 2: the altar. this commitment that I made to you. Now, again,
Speaker 2: I want to be careful in the same way you
Speaker 2: were careful. There might truly be a time where God
Speaker 2: calls somebody to do something like that. But if that
Speaker 2: becomes my personality, I am going to step out on
Speaker 2: what I see as a not flimsy limb and say,
Speaker 2: it's not God, it's your personality, and you are making
Speaker 2: God the fall guy for it. And that's really dangerous
Speaker 2: because what are you going to do now? If you
Speaker 2: cut my contract, which you might have the right to
Speaker 2: do because I didn't deliver, then I could sit here
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, she didn't see God. She was
Speaker 2: so earthly minded. So yes, there are times where big H,
Speaker 2: big S, big D, Holy Spirit discernment come and we
Speaker 2: need to change our plans and people might be inconvenienced
Speaker 2: and we might feel awkward, and it might be really hard,
Speaker 2: but we just know that we've got to do it.
Speaker 2: There might also be times where you can't make a
Speaker 2: commitment and you've got to take that. I've got to say, Jamie,
Speaker 2: I am struggling so much right now. I am having
Speaker 2: such a hard time focusing. I am not going to
Speaker 2: be able to meet this deadline. Can we talk about
Speaker 2: extensions or can we talk about ways that maybe we
Speaker 2: can both get back on track. Or maybe it's a
Speaker 2: life-altering event. It's, I have gotten this terrible diagnosis and
Speaker 2: I need to step away from this. That is so
Speaker 2: different than saying, I've gotten a diagnosis and God has
Speaker 2: told me to step away from this. The end result
Speaker 2: might be the same. It might be the wise choice
Speaker 2: for me to step away from it. But as soon
Speaker 2: as I say, and God has told me to, I
Speaker 2: have assumed so much And I have thrust so much
Speaker 2: on you because what if you come to me and say, actually,
Speaker 2: God told me that we were supposed to submit this
Speaker 2: on time.
Speaker 1: Then what do we do?
Speaker 2: Then we're just two budding rams and nobody's going to give.
Speaker 2: And we're both doing it in the name of the Lord. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I think that's a nuance that's important to hold
Speaker 1: on to because I think sometimes we think it's bad
Speaker 1: to want things just for wanting them. Like you're talking
Speaker 1: about the Hawaii thing. Like, You know, you said it's
Speaker 1: not bad to, it wouldn't be bad to want to
Speaker 1: go to Hawaii. But I think sometimes we put a
Speaker 1: God stamp on it to make it seem like righteousness
Speaker 1: in case the haters are going to hate and say, oh,
Speaker 1: why is she using resources to go to Hawaii when
Speaker 1: she can stay at home or whatever? So, yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think that can be dangerous. I actually found in
Speaker 1: my really quick looking, I found a similar passage to
Speaker 1: our verse of the day. that clarifies a little bit more.
Speaker 1: So can I share that? I think it's John 10
Speaker 1: verses three to five. So I'll just read them first.
Speaker 1: And again, I'm going to do the NASB and then
Speaker 1: go to a couple of these things. But it says,
Speaker 1: to him, the doorkeeper opens and the sheep hear his
Speaker 1: voice and he calls his own sheep by name and
Speaker 1: leads them out. When he puts forth all his own,
Speaker 1: he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him
Speaker 1: because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will
Speaker 1: not follow, but will flee from him because they do
Speaker 1: not know the voice of strangers. So this is a
Speaker 1: little bit different because it's saying that they will follow,
Speaker 1: like we as Christians are going to follow Jesus because
Speaker 1: we know, which means we have seen or perceived, hence
Speaker 1: to know his voice or his sound. Like that's basically
Speaker 1: saying we'll know his voice because we don't know the
Speaker 1: voice of a stranger. And Again, it's more of an
Speaker 1: allegory because, of course, we hear the voice of Satan sometimes, probably,
Speaker 1: or whispers of the enemy in some way, shape, or form.
Speaker 1: We've heard it, but I think this is kind of
Speaker 1: saying that if, as Christians, I think, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to extrapolate, I don't know if I'm theologically accurate or not,
Speaker 1: so take this with a grain of salt because I'm
Speaker 1: not a theologian, but If we spend time with Jesus,
Speaker 1: if we spend time in God's word and we come
Speaker 1: to know the character of what sounds like him, then
Speaker 1: we are not necessarily going to follow a voice that
Speaker 1: is contrary to that because that is not what is
Speaker 1: familiar to us in terms of what we have come
Speaker 1: to know as what Jesus would say. Coming from scripture,
Speaker 1: coming from experience of you know, what is the fruit
Speaker 1: of the spirit? James 3, 17 is another one. Like,
Speaker 1: but the wisdom above is pure, peaceable, gentle, open to reason,
Speaker 1: full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And
Speaker 1: so if those things are not coming out of what
Speaker 1: we're hearing, then those are outside of the voice of Jesus.
Speaker 1: I think it still leaves a lot unsaid though. And
Speaker 1: I think it still leaves a lot because like you said,
Speaker 1: moving to Hawaii, I mean, that could come from Jesus,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily have to come from Jesus. So
Speaker 1: could staying at home.
Speaker 2: And if it doesn't come from Jesus, that doesn't make
Speaker 2: it wrong either. I would say this is going to
Speaker 2: be my biggest takeaway, like the mic drop moment of
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say is sometimes God will tell
Speaker 2: you to do something and you should do it. Sometimes
Speaker 2: your intuition will tell you to do something and you
Speaker 2: should do it. The only thing you shouldn't do is
Speaker 2: attribute that to God.
Speaker 1: Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2: Maybe there is something in your heart that is being
Speaker 2: drawn to Hawaii and you can't explain it. And you
Speaker 2: do have the means to go there.
Speaker 1: God bless you. And so you do.
Speaker 2: God did not call you to go to Hawaii, but
Speaker 2: your intuition knew that you needed something there. You needed
Speaker 2: the fresh air. You needed the rejuvenation. You needed the ocean.
Speaker 2: Something there, your body needed. And that's what I have
Speaker 2: learned to strip intuition down to. It's your body finding
Speaker 2: nonverbal ways to communicate with you what it needs, or
Speaker 2: your subconscious finding nonverbal ways to communicate with you. Your
Speaker 2: intuition is not like a terrible, corrupt thing to be
Speaker 2: afraid of.
Speaker 1: Your intuition.
Speaker 2: is really, really, really smart. It's not as smart as God,
Speaker 2: but it is really smart. And so I think we've
Speaker 2: been taught as Christians to, okay, listen to God in
Speaker 2: the Bible, listen to God in the Holy Spirit, listen
Speaker 2: to God through your pastor and teachers and Bible teachers,
Speaker 2: and everything else must be wrong. And that leaves out
Speaker 2: this entire, okay, A, we've got common sense. I don't
Speaker 2: need to read in the Bible or to have the
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit tell me, that I shouldn't go outside at
Speaker 2: 10 below without proper winter gear, right? That's just me
Speaker 2: using my brain. I don't stop and pray and ask
Speaker 2: God if it's in his will that I wear a
Speaker 2: coat because I believe that God has given me the
Speaker 2: gift of common sense. And so I wear a coat
Speaker 2: when it's 10 below. In the same way, God has
Speaker 2: given us in two differing volumes an intuition that will
Speaker 2: speak to us, but it is still so different than
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit. So for example, I think one thing
Speaker 2: that a woman's intuition was designed to do is to
Speaker 2: tell you when you are in an unsafe situation or
Speaker 2: with an unsafe person. We have not had the gift
Speaker 2: of being extremely muscular and dominant. And so God has
Speaker 2: given us the extra gift of being able to read
Speaker 2: people well and to know to differing degrees of accuracy
Speaker 2: and never to 100% accuracy if we are with somebody
Speaker 2: who is unsafe. Here is the extremely tragic version of
Speaker 2: how bad it is when a well-meaning Christian believes that
Speaker 2: intuition and Holy Spirit are exactly the same thing. In
Speaker 2: this scenario, the woman is walking down the road and
Speaker 2: just has a bad feeling. Because her intuition that was
Speaker 2: given to her by God is telling her that something
Speaker 2: is dangerous. But this woman, A, has not been told
Speaker 2: to trust her intuition. And B, she has been told
Speaker 2: that the only extrasensory information that she gets is the
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. So she interprets it as God told me
Speaker 2: to leave and I didn't. And then let's make it
Speaker 2: terribly tragic that she gets mugged. The woman with the
Speaker 2: wrong understanding of the distinction between the Holy Spirit and
Speaker 2: her intuition can very easily say, God told me to
Speaker 2: leave and I didn't, so I was punished. Or even,
Speaker 2: God told me to leave and I didn't, so God
Speaker 2: punished me. And that is so, so wrong. You did
Speaker 2: not sin against God by ignoring your intuition. You, I
Speaker 2: will submit, were sinned against by the world that forced
Speaker 2: you to ignore your intuition. And God was up here,
Speaker 2: like morality was not a part of it, right? It wasn't,
Speaker 2: am I sinning or am I not? It's, am I
Speaker 2: trusting my intuition or am I not? That's why it
Speaker 2: almost sounds like I'm advocating for a less spiritually pure
Speaker 2: way of looking at ourselves. But I hope people see
Speaker 2: Like the danger of enmeshing your intuition in God and A,
Speaker 2: how prideful that can be, but also how devastating that is.
Speaker 2: If then when you ignore your intuition and something bad happens,
Speaker 2: then you take it as God punishing you because you've sinned.
Speaker 1: That's tragic.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: So my husband and I, we're celebrating our 27th anniversary
Speaker 1: this year in a few days. And we went to
Speaker 1: dinner last week to celebrate. And we kind of went
Speaker 1: through during the dinner, we kind of went through the
Speaker 1: eras of our last, of our 27 years and kind
Speaker 1: of just kind of like the whole dinner, we're just
Speaker 1: kind of going through these different eras and talking about
Speaker 1: them and what we got out of them, what were
Speaker 1: the good things, the bad things, the in-between. And it
Speaker 1: reminded me of just before moving to Alaska. We had
Speaker 1: lived in Arizona. And at the time, we were really
Speaker 1: happy there. Like we were very plugged into our church.
Speaker 1: Looking back, I would say it was the place where
Speaker 1: at least my husband had the best friends of almost
Speaker 1: anywhere we've lived other than maybe like our college friends
Speaker 1: back in Virginia. Because for men, it's kind of difficult,
Speaker 1: I think, to make friends. I would say he had
Speaker 1: the most friends, not necessarily, you know, that he didn't
Speaker 1: have good friends other places. But anyway, I was involved
Speaker 1: in children's ministry. He was involved in doing sound for
Speaker 1: the church. We were part of this like church that
Speaker 1: was mobile. So every Sunday we had to get there early,
Speaker 1: set up everything. I mean, I was involved with music.
Speaker 1: It was just, it was the most involved. I'd say
Speaker 1: that we have been at a church in terms of
Speaker 1: time spent serving and being with people in the church.
Speaker 1: So Anyway, everything seemed like it was good. And then
Speaker 1: he was given this opportunity to go to Alaska. The
Speaker 1: first time, we said no. It didn't seem like the
Speaker 1: right timing. But then that opportunity came up again. And
Speaker 1: we started wondering, is this God giving us this opportunity?
Speaker 1: My husband felt very strongly that he was supposed to
Speaker 1: be going. And.
Speaker 1: But not necessarily like, oh, God is calling me here.
Speaker 1: It was just he really wanted a change of scenery
Speaker 1: at that point and thought it was the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. So we're just kind of doing this discernment
Speaker 1: process and, you know, knowing that we're going to do
Speaker 1: it imperfectly because we're not going to hear from God 100%.
Speaker 1: But I just remember asking God, is he wanting to
Speaker 1: do this for the wrong reasons? And I came to
Speaker 1: the passage in, it was about Samson and how.
Speaker 1: I hope I don't get it wrong because I haven't
Speaker 1: reviewed it recently.
Speaker 2: I remember this story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he had this idea that he wanted to
Speaker 1: go after this Philistine woman. He was forbidden to marry
Speaker 1: a Philistine woman. And I think he basically was... Drawn
Speaker 1: to her. And I don't know. Anyway, whatever the case.
Speaker 2: His parents were worried.
Speaker 1: His parents were worried. That's right.
Speaker 2: Like the narrator was like, and they didn't know that
Speaker 2: this was part of God's plan.
Speaker 1: That's right. And so.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: They didn't know. And it's like, who are we to
Speaker 1: think that God won't even use? And I think this
Speaker 1: was in the Bible. Like, who are you to think
Speaker 1: that God won't even use just the regular, like carnal
Speaker 1: desires of a person, their wishes, their wants? to bring
Speaker 1: about his plan. And so I just remember reading that
Speaker 1: and thinking, okay, like, all right. So even if, which
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it was not a God ordained thing,
Speaker 1: but even if he's not seeking God about this, God's like,
Speaker 1: who's to say I'm not going to move your family
Speaker 1: where you're supposed to be one way or another. And
Speaker 1: so that gave me this idea of, okay, maybe. And
Speaker 1: then I just went to God directly and I just thought,
Speaker 1: please give me confirmation. And so I just remember reading
Speaker 1: about the transfiguration and Jesus takes a couple of the
Speaker 1: disciples up and Moses and Elijah are there and everyone's
Speaker 1: so happy. They're like, wow, let's just make a tent
Speaker 1: and stay here because it feels good to be here.
Speaker 1: And Jesus was like, nope, you got to go back.
Speaker 1: You've got work to do somewhere else. Even though this
Speaker 1: is a great place and a holy place and things
Speaker 1: are really good here, I have other things for you
Speaker 1: right now. And I read that and not everybody would
Speaker 1: read it and come away with the same thing, but
Speaker 1: I really felt the Holy Spirit just nudging me like,
Speaker 1: this is for you. to understand that you're in a
Speaker 1: good place, but I got other things. So go down
Speaker 1: the mountain and keep going. There's more for you somewhere else.
Speaker 1: And we ended up in Alaska. This podcast would never happen.
Speaker 1: Our friendship would not have happened because you lived in Alaska.
Speaker 1: And any number of things wouldn't have happened. So all
Speaker 1: of that to say that I feel like a very
Speaker 1: safe thing to do when you think you might be
Speaker 1: hearing from God, but you're not sure, is just keep
Speaker 1: asking him for wisdom. And again, another scripture is James 1.5.
Speaker 1: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God,
Speaker 1: it shall be given to him. And it might be
Speaker 1: that if you're not sure of yourself, but you're sure
Speaker 1: of God, you might need to ask a few times.
Speaker 1: But I just truly believe if we just keep asking
Speaker 1: and pursuing and being open to God's showing us through scripture,
Speaker 1: through sermons, through people, through circumstances, I really believe that
Speaker 1: we will eventually receive be able to discern like, is
Speaker 1: it really God or is it not? Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I just want to add the reminder that
Speaker 2: sometimes it's not going to be God, but it's still
Speaker 2: going to be a nudging that makes sense for you
Speaker 2: to listen to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Good point.
Speaker 2: As Christians and as women, we really have had a
Speaker 2: disservice thrust upon us to not learn how to trust
Speaker 2: and honor and listen to our intuition. We're We're taught
Speaker 2: to suppress it. We're taught that, well, since the heart
Speaker 2: is deceitful above all things, then anything that I might
Speaker 2: think or want must necessarily be my sin nature. And,
Speaker 2: you know, there's so much that God has put inside
Speaker 2: us by design that doesn't have to be as complicated
Speaker 2: or as afraid of being tarnished by sin as we
Speaker 2: make it. Like, sometimes we're hungry and that's a sign
Speaker 2: that we should eat.
Speaker 1: So we do.
Speaker 2: And sometimes we're hungry and we're in the middle of
Speaker 2: something and there's no food. So we don't like you
Speaker 2: haven't sinned one way or the other, but the hunger
Speaker 2: is still in most cases, right? Like, you know, relationships
Speaker 2: with food can get enmeshed in, in things of the flesh.
Speaker 2: But if you're not in a situation like that, like
Speaker 2: hunger is just hunger. It doesn't have to be oh God,
Speaker 2: should I eat this piece of pizza or not? Like
Speaker 2: I really need, because I want to do it. But
Speaker 2: if I want to do it, then it must not
Speaker 2: be good for me. And I don't want to make
Speaker 2: you mad. Like we have so much freedom in Christ.
Speaker 2: I think that if I wanted to just like become
Speaker 2: grandmother to the world and like impart grandmotherly advice to
Speaker 2: the world, it would be like, things are okay. Like
Speaker 2: God is not as mad about every small choice you
Speaker 2: make as you might be afraid he is. Like it
Speaker 2: would be, imagine how sad it would be to like,
Speaker 2: you take your kid into this beautiful playroom, like just
Speaker 2: the playroom of their dreams. And they come to you
Speaker 2: with every, like, mommy, is it okay if I play
Speaker 2: with this one now? Or will that make you mad? Like, mommy,
Speaker 2: are you sad if I play with this toy? Like,
Speaker 2: could I be done playing with this toy now? Or
Speaker 2: does that hurt your feelings? That would be so sad
Speaker 2: for a mom. And I feel like sometimes that's how
Speaker 2: we treat God with the gifts he's given us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So there's a book, there's a popular book out
Speaker 1: by John Burke and it's called Imagine Heaven. And he
Speaker 1: has a podcast too. And I would say, absolutely take
Speaker 1: it with a grain of salt because he's a very
Speaker 1: biblically based person. He interviews people who have had near
Speaker 1: death experiences who are Christians. Some of them are not, but, um,
Speaker 1: But he talks to them about their experiences. And his
Speaker 1: goal as a pastor and as a Christian is not
Speaker 1: to take everything. It's to find out everything, find common threads,
Speaker 1: find out if they're biblical, and just talk about it.
Speaker 1: And the idea is to equip believers with the not
Speaker 1: to take someone's testimony about their alleged, whether it's true
Speaker 1: or false, near-death experience as gospel, but to allow us
Speaker 1: to take these stories and be able to imagine heaven
Speaker 1: more fully and more biblically. So anyway, my point is,
Speaker 1: one of the things that in his interviews that keeps
Speaker 1: coming up, and whether it's true or not, I believe
Speaker 1: it's biblical, is that their experience with God and with
Speaker 1: Jesus in their experiences tend to be that they are
Speaker 1: so full of joy and laughter and they're whimsical. They're loving,
Speaker 1: but fun. And I'm not saying that there's not, there
Speaker 1: aren't wrathful, judgmental aspects to God. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that these experiences mean that's truly who God is, because
Speaker 1: I'm not going to, you know, that's extra biblical. But
Speaker 1: in the Bible, if you really do read it, and
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much love. There's so much,
Speaker 1: when you hear about the parables that Jesus uses to
Speaker 1: describe God, like the prodigal son, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's joyful. He's loving. And I just feel like we
Speaker 1: get so hung up on the God with the ruler
Speaker 1: wrapping your knuckles when you've done something wrong that as Christians,
Speaker 1: we forget some of the whimsicality and the joy and
Speaker 1: the laughter that's, you know, reflected in us. What are
Speaker 1: the things that we love about humanity? And we're made
Speaker 1: in his image and we love to laugh. We love joy.
Speaker 1: Those are things that fulfilling to us. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just know that a wrong understanding of God has
Speaker 1: been my pitfall, my downfall in a lot of my
Speaker 1: problems as a Christian. And I just feel like the
Speaker 1: more I look to who God is, it just helps
Speaker 1: me to live my life, to enhance my prayer life,
Speaker 1: enhance my relationship with God more when I understand more
Speaker 1: who He is. I don't know. Maybe we'll cut that
Speaker 1: whole thing out.
Speaker 2: No, that made a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 2: don't have a formal blessing ready, but I do hope
Speaker 2: and pray that everybody listening learns to trust the gift
Speaker 2: of intuition that God has given you and that you
Speaker 2: are able to hear the voice of God when he
Speaker 2: is trying to communicate with you. And my prayer is
Speaker 2: that may we all have even greater ability to discern
Speaker 2: which is which and Just as a reminder to drive
Speaker 2: it home, that doesn't mean your intuition shouldn't be listened to.
Speaker 2: It just shouldn't be attributed to the Lord. Amen.
Speaker 1: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
Speaker 1: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
Speaker 1: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will
Speaker 1: find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've
Speaker 1: got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more.
Speaker 1: That's lifeaudio.com.