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Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Aaron Mollin Show. Wherever you are around the world,

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Speaker 1: it's such an honor to have your company. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you for all of your support. Whether

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Speaker 1: you watch via YouTube, you listen to the podcast, or

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Speaker 1: you consume us on social media, it does not matter.

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Speaker 1: As long as you are here at some stage. It's

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Speaker 1: a big show. We are hitting hard on Venezuela and

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Speaker 1: hitting hard on Iran, both super crucial issues. Not just

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Speaker 1: in those places themselves, mind you, the stakes are incredibly high,

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Speaker 1: but globally for all of us here in the West,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that so many still seem to think

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Speaker 1: that they know better than the people on the ground

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Speaker 1: at the coal face, for example, those protesting poor Maduro

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Speaker 1: set him free. The kind of people who themselves humanitarians

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Speaker 1: and feminists in Western nations are calling for his release

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Speaker 1: and demonizing the US for what they did, when ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of the people on the ground

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela are saying thank you God or thank you Trump.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's the same thing in the eyes of some people.

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Speaker 1: Who knows, But when will we in the West stop

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Speaker 1: thinking we know better than those on the ground. It's

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Speaker 1: the same as the issue in Iran. Over eighty percent,

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Speaker 1: I hazard, I guess even higher than that of the

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Speaker 1: people in Iran know that the Ayatolla is evil. They

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Speaker 1: hate him, they hate the regime. They are oppressed, they

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Speaker 1: are desperate for freedom. But the second, the second the

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Speaker 1: US administration or anyone else these lefty woke losers don't

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Speaker 1: like agrees with them, they suddenly go, oh, wait, we

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Speaker 1: need to oppose this, We need to oppose this. Oh

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Speaker 1: protect the Ayatollah, protect the aya Like you can't make

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Speaker 1: it up. You cannot make it up. When will those

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Speaker 1: in the West actually look to those on the ground

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Speaker 1: who experience life under these horrific people firsthand for their information.

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Speaker 1: That will be the day, won't it. Well, I have

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Speaker 1: two people who are actually experienced in both of these

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Speaker 1: places what it means not just for their own people,

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Speaker 1: not just for their countries, but what it means globally

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Speaker 1: for the world to be rid of two evil dictators.

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Speaker 1: So Maduro here has faced court in the USA for

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Speaker 1: the first time. Of course, we know it is in

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Speaker 1: New York. Now let me get up my list of

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Speaker 1: what he actually said, so I can give it to

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Speaker 1: you accurately. So Judge Alvin Hellestein asked him to confirm

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Speaker 1: his full name, and Maduro said, I'm Nicholas Maduro Morross.

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Speaker 1: My name is President Nicholas Maduro Morross, President of Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: I am here, kidnapped and I'm here since January third, Saturday.

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Speaker 1: I was captured at my home in Caracas, Venezuela. The

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Speaker 1: judge cut him off and said the hearing was not

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Speaker 1: the proper time for Maduro to protest his arrest. Moments later,

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Speaker 1: the judge asked him to enter a plea, and Maduro said,

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Speaker 1: I am innocent, I am not guilty. I am a

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Speaker 1: decent man. So sorry. I am a dip. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I am a dick, so sorry. It must be a

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Speaker 1: cat here. So sorry, Maduro, and no disrespect. He's a

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Speaker 1: decent man, guys, He's a decent man, and he says

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Speaker 1: he's still president of my country. Well I would I

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Speaker 1: would kind of like to disagree on that one. I

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Speaker 1: don't think you are Maduro. I don't think you are

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Speaker 1: so anyway. He then tried to yell out again protest

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Speaker 1: his innocence, say that he was a war prisoner, aren't

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Speaker 1: no none of those things. You are an evil, horrific

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Speaker 1: human being who has caused your own people more pain

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Speaker 1: than almost imaginable, and now it is time for you

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Speaker 1: to face the consequences of that. So what a great,

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Speaker 1: great day we go. Someone coming on who's going to

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Speaker 1: talk about his own experience, and that is Federal Judge

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Speaker 1: Roy Altman, an incredible human being, one of the youngest

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Speaker 1: people in America to ever become a federal judge and

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Speaker 1: the second Venezuelan born man to become a federal judge

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Speaker 1: in America. He's living the absolute dream and he understands firsthand.

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Speaker 1: He was mourn in Caracas what it is like to

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Speaker 1: exist under that kind of oppression and to then experience

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Speaker 1: the kind of freedom that everyone in Venezuela deserves. So

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Speaker 1: looking forward, he's got some really beautiful, humanized personal stories

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Speaker 1: about that experience. Moving on to Iran, incredible. The people

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Speaker 1: are still managing to hit the streets. They are not

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Speaker 1: backing down despite this heavy handedness of the regime. They've

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Speaker 1: already started to kill people. It's horrific. We know that

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump has publicly again on Air Force One,

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Speaker 1: said that they are watching the situation very closely, and

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Speaker 1: that the regime needs to stop killing protesters. I'd love

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Speaker 1: to see some action on that. Love to see some

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Speaker 1: action on that. I suspect we will. I think anyone

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Speaker 1: who doubts that President Trump is a man of his

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Speaker 1: word doesn't doubt it for too long. Maduro a very

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Speaker 1: good example of that. Really interesting to get Andrew Gallilly's

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Speaker 1: take on this. He's an expert when it comes to Iran,

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Speaker 1: the Iranian regime, and again, not just the impact that

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Speaker 1: these frauds have had on their own people and the

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Speaker 1: way that they have completely destroyed what was a once

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Speaker 1: prosperous nation, but the impact of a free Iran on

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world, not just in America but

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Speaker 1: the West, but the Middle East everywhere, and how those

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Speaker 1: of us who believe in things like freedom and peace

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Speaker 1: and democracy will benefit significantly from his removal. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: some reports already that he's looking to flee to Russia.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd love for him not to find another

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Speaker 1: safe have and I'd love for him to be brought

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Speaker 1: to some kind of justice. But again, we will wait

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Speaker 1: and see this situation changes so quickly. But first I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in Judge Altman and talk to him.

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Speaker 1: He wrote an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 1: about Venezuela. These are his thoughts, his reaction, his personal experience,

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Speaker 1: and it's such a pleasure to bring it to you. Judge.

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Speaker 1: First of all, thank you so very much for joining

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Speaker 1: us here on the Aaron Mullan Show and for your service.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

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Speaker 3: And I just have to say I've watched some of

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Speaker 3: your programming, especially on Israel, and I'm very much inspired

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Speaker 3: by the things you've said on that subject.

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Speaker 1: Ah, bless you. Thank you. Look, you've got very good taste,

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Speaker 1: clearly in shows by your statements, yes, but also your

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Speaker 1: view of the world. And something that caught my eye

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Speaker 1: this week was an incredible opinion piece that you did

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Speaker 1: in Wall Street Journal, and it started with the sounds

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Speaker 1: of explosions in the place where you were born. And

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Speaker 1: I'd love for you to tell this story if you can,

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Speaker 1: to my audience.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I was born in Venezuela, in Kadakas, which is

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Speaker 3: the capital in a country that was at that time

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Speaker 3: or democracy, not a perfect one, but there are no

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Speaker 3: such things as perfect democracies, even America, which I think

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Speaker 3: is the greatest force for good the world has ever known,

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Speaker 3: is imperfect and constantly being made perfect.

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Speaker 2: Or more perfect by those of us in service.

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Speaker 3: But in Kadakas we had something of a democracy, if

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Speaker 3: an imperfect one. That all changed after I had moved

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Speaker 3: to Miami. Ugo Chavez took over in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 3: and then after two thousand and three we could talk

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Speaker 3: about that story because I was there when this happened,

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Speaker 3: decided to stay forever, and did in fact forever, and

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Speaker 3: then was replaced by Nicolas Marudo, who ran a repressive dictatorship,

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Speaker 3: a stifling political dissent, murdering his own people, forcing now

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Speaker 3: about eight million Venezuelans to flee the country, mostly to

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Speaker 3: other places in South America, where the professional classes, people

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Speaker 3: who were lawyers and doctors and dentists, have had to

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Speaker 3: become uber drivers and take low level on low paying

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Speaker 3: jobs all over the world.

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Speaker 2: And now, for the first time.

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Speaker 3: In some twenty seven years, there is at least the

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Speaker 3: glimmer of a possibility of hope for the many millions

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Speaker 3: of Venezuelans who've lived under a brutal dictatorship these last

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Speaker 3: few decades. And so I wrote an opinion piece about

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Speaker 3: what that feels like, both for me and for some

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Speaker 3: of the people who I have randomly had the opportunity

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Speaker 3: and the privilege to encounter during the course of my

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Speaker 3: job here as a federal judge in America. I should

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Speaker 3: say I didn't write the piece as a federal judge.

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Speaker 3: I wrote as an American and as a person who

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Speaker 3: was born in Venezuela. But I'm glad to hear that

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Speaker 3: the piece resonated with you.

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Speaker 1: It starts off with the sounds of explosions. What was

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Speaker 1: your family's experience like over this past weekend? Were they

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Speaker 1: scared initially because I didn't nobody knew what was going on?

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Speaker 2: Well, I should tell you a couple things before I

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Speaker 2: tell you.

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Speaker 3: That is that I've had family members who were in

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Speaker 3: these protests for years against the government, and one of

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Speaker 3: my cousins actually was face to face with a protester

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Speaker 3: who had fallen down and a member of the authorities,

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Speaker 3: a police officer literally bent over him and shot him

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Speaker 3: in the head in front of thousands of people. The

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Speaker 3: second thing I'll tell you is that the people of Venezuela,

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Speaker 3: of Karakas woke up to the sounds of explosions very

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Speaker 3: early in the morning, four or five in the morning,

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Speaker 3: while it was still dark and the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: people were still asleep, not understanding really what was going

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Speaker 3: on at all. There had been suspicions that, you know,

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Speaker 3: the United States had an increased military presence in the Caribbean,

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Speaker 3: but there had been explosions in Kadakas before, not because

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Speaker 3: there had been an invasion, but because there had been

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Speaker 3: these seemingly conspiratorial plots by the government to play as

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Speaker 3: if an overthrow was in place in order to unleash

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Speaker 3: and deploy ever increasingly restrictive measures against the population. So

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Speaker 3: I think the people in Kadakas really didn't know what

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Speaker 3: to expect.

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Speaker 2: But of course, as they.

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Speaker 3: Saw helicopters flying overhead and more and bigger explosions, especially

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Speaker 3: explosions that resulted in secondary explosions because they hit munitions,

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Speaker 3: I think people started to hope upon hope that maybe

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Speaker 3: the Americans were in fact coming in to remove the dictator,

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Speaker 3: and a few hours later came to learn on.

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Speaker 2: Social media.

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Speaker 3: Although much of social media is blocked in Venezuela, people

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Speaker 3: can use VPNs and other kinds of things like that

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Speaker 3: to try to evade the controls the government has put

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Speaker 3: in place to control its people were able to determine that,

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Speaker 3: in fact, the Americans had come in and, in a

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Speaker 3: stunning achievement, in less than just a few minutes, had

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Speaker 3: removed the dictator and his wife from the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Some of those videos of real raw reaction are so

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Speaker 1: emotional and so telling, and it never ceases to amaze

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Speaker 1: me that people in the West who will protest anything

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Speaker 1: and everything if it doesn't align politically with them, even

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Speaker 1: if it means defending a murderous dictator, rather than looking

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Speaker 1: at the people living under his tyrannical reign and seeing

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Speaker 1: their joy and saying, maybe this is a good thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of hard to believe, although I will

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Speaker 3: say that in response to the article that I wrote

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Speaker 3: in the Wall Street Journal today, I've received thousands of

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Speaker 3: messages today from people all over the world, Venezuelans and

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Speaker 3: non Venezuelans alike, not only expressing support but also to

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Speaker 3: some degree gratitude, especially from people who are Venezuelan who

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Speaker 3: don't speak English, for having voiced so many of their

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Speaker 3: hopes and dreams in a very public way.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the couple of examples and the

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Speaker 1: two people that you referenced in this article. In your

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Speaker 1: line of work, you meet so many amazing people, I

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Speaker 1: have no doubt, but these two clearly had a very

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Speaker 1: big impact on you, and I guess given the dream

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Speaker 1: that you've been able to lead and achieve through obviously

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Speaker 1: incredible hard work, makes you so grateful for the life

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Speaker 1: you have, but maybe feel even more responsibility to fight

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Speaker 1: for those who are still suffering in your home country.

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Speaker 3: You know, the first case that I mentioned in the

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Speaker 3: article was it was a very long federal murder case.

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Speaker 3: What I do in every trial is after the jury

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Speaker 3: has rendered its verdict, I go back to the jury

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Speaker 3: room with certificates that I have filled out myself, thanking

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Speaker 3: them for their performance of a solemn duty of their

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Speaker 3: American citizenship, and I shake each of their hands.

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Speaker 2: And so I did that in that case.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I will tell you as an aside,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the most meaningful experiences I have as

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Speaker 3: a judge, because over and over again when I pick

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Speaker 3: a jury, as you can imagine, when I look into

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Speaker 3: the faces of the people who are selected for jury service,

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Speaker 3: I see one emotion.

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Speaker 2: There, and that is horror.

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Speaker 3: Why they seem to be asking themselves, as this crazy

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Speaker 3: judge required me to take time away from friends and

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Speaker 3: family and obviously work, to come and sit for weeks

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Speaker 3: at a time to hear about a murderer, a Ponzi schemer,

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Speaker 3: or a terrorism offense, whatever.

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Speaker 2: The case may be.

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Speaker 3: But when I go back to the jury room at

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Speaker 3: the end of the case, invariably every single time I

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Speaker 3: shake each juror's hand and I see a totally different.

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Speaker 2: Emotion imprinted there, and that is gratitude.

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Speaker 3: Gratitude because however much they may see on the television

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Speaker 3: and in the newspapers that our American experiment is dead

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Speaker 3: and sick and dying, they've come to realize that America

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Speaker 3: is just each and every one of them in a

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Speaker 3: jury room, respecting the opinions of other people, and reaching

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Speaker 3: a unanimous verdict. So it's a very meaningful experience for

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Speaker 3: me and for them. And I went back there after

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Speaker 3: this federal murder trial, and as soon as I came in,

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Speaker 3: I knew that something was off because one of the jurors,

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Speaker 3: the foreman actually of the jury, and for your listeners,

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Speaker 3: the foreman is the person who in the jury room

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Speaker 3: directs their deliberations and speaks for them in court when

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Speaker 3: they come in to speak to me or ask me questions.

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Speaker 3: The foreman was in tears, a man in his mid forties,

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Speaker 3: and I was concerned, so I said, well, what's the matter.

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Speaker 3: The other jurors actually helped him and said, Judge, he's

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Speaker 3: been wanting to say something to you, but he's he's

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Speaker 3: very emotional about it.

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Speaker 2: Just give him a second. So I said, that's no problem.

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Speaker 3: I went over to him and I shook his hand,

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Speaker 3: and he stood up and he was crying, weeping, and

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Speaker 3: I said, take your time, and he asked me if

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Speaker 3: it was okay to tell me in Spanish.

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Speaker 2: I said, of course. And he told me that he had.

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Speaker 3: Read about my own family's journey from the Holocaust in

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Speaker 3: Europe to Venezuela and then to Miami and become, you

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Speaker 3: know what, ended up being the youngest, one of the

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Speaker 3: youngest federal judges in America. And he said that he

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Speaker 3: had been a lawyer in Venezuela, and that his grandfather

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Speaker 3: had been a lawyer, and he had been the one

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Speaker 3: who had brought the family to Venezuela to escape the

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Speaker 3: persecution from the dictatorship, and his grandfather had recently passed away,

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Speaker 3: and he was crying because he knew how proud his

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Speaker 3: grandfather would have been to have seen such important federal

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Speaker 3: trial here in America, presided over by a free American

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Speaker 3: Venezuelan federal judge and a free American Venezuelan jury foreman.

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Speaker 2: And so I hugged him and.

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Speaker 3: I told him that one day, I don't know that

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Speaker 3: I believed it necessarily, but I told him that one

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Speaker 3: day I had a feeling that he would be able

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Speaker 3: to go back to a free Venezuela. And he wiped

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Speaker 3: away the tears and he looked up at me, and

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Speaker 3: he shook my hand, and he said, God willing, one

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Speaker 3: day we can go together. And now I think that

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Speaker 3: there's at least the glimmer of a possibility that that

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Speaker 3: might be true. Remember, people like me, we can never

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Speaker 3: go back to Venezuela, you know, people like my father,

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Speaker 3: people who work in service in the United States, people

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Speaker 3: who have a high profile in other countries, can't go

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Speaker 3: back to Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: It's too dangerous.

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Speaker 3: And so now there's the possible that maybe one day

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Speaker 3: he and I can And the second case that you

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Speaker 3: mentioned actually happened a few years before that, also a

295
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Speaker 3: very long, very emotional, very complicated white collar case that's fraud,

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Speaker 3: and in that case, something very odd happened. It's never

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Speaker 3: happened again to me. One of the things you should

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Speaker 3: know about the American justice system is that we generally

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Speaker 3: try to avoid allowing the jurors to see a defendant,

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Speaker 3: the criminal defendant in shackles or in the prison uniform

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Speaker 3: chaperoned by the US marshals. Well, that's because we don't

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Speaker 3: want them to be prejudiced in thinking that we think

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Speaker 3: the defendant is so dangerous he needs to be shackled

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Speaker 3: and chaperoned by marshals. Maybe they'll be afraid of him

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Speaker 3: and convict him only for that reason. So we're very

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Speaker 3: careful about that. We dressed them in civilian clothes, we

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Speaker 3: never show the marshals around them, We certainly never have

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Speaker 3: them shackled in front of the jury. Anyway, the marshals

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Speaker 3: called me one morning in the middle of a lengthy

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Speaker 3: trial and the week of the trial, I think, to

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Speaker 3: tell me that we had a big problem, and the

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00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,880
Speaker 3: problem was that the prisoner elevators they used to bring

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Speaker 3: the prisoners from the jail underneath the ground up to

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Speaker 3: my courtroom was broken, and so they had decided that

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Speaker 3: since it was very early in the morning and there

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Speaker 3: was probably no one in the courtroom, that they would

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Speaker 3: use one of the public elevators to bring the defendants

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Speaker 3: up in the public elevators. Unfortunately, the elevator door opened

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Speaker 3: unexpectedly at the lobby level, and one of our jurors

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Speaker 3: from our trial just happened to be an early bird

321
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Speaker 3: and was standing right there and saw the defendants and

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Speaker 3: shackles with the US Marshalls chaperoning them. So of course

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Speaker 3: I came into court told all the lawyers, said, what

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Speaker 3: do you want me to do? They said, we'd like

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Speaker 3: to question the jur So I brought in the juror

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Speaker 3: to question her. But as soon as she walked into

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Speaker 3: the courtroom, she raised her hand like a student in class,

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Speaker 3: and she said, I know why you want to question me.

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Speaker 3: I am a lawyer. I was a lawyer in Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: I can't be a lawyer now, she said, But I

331
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Speaker 3: was a lawyer there, And she said, I haven't had

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to be a lawyer here, but I've been

333
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: so proud to have participated in this jury and in

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Speaker 3: this level of service to my country because I fled

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Speaker 3: as a lawyer and unjust country and I've come to

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00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 3: a place and in a courtroom where justice, fairness, and

337
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 3: the rule of law are literally everywhere. And she said,

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Speaker 3: I know that I shouldn't have seen them in shackles,

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Speaker 3: but I promise you will have absolutely no effect on

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Speaker 3: my verdict. She said, as a lawyer, I assumed that

341
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 3: they were in custody anyway, and I promise I will

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00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 3: never tell the other jurors what I've seen. And in

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00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 3: response to one of the lawyer's questions, she turned to

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Speaker 3: me and she started to cry in the courtroom and

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00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 3: she said, Judge, please trust me. I will not use

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00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 3: them against me, against them, but please do not take

347
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 3: this away from me, because it's an experience that I'm

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Speaker 3: hoping I can take with me until the day that

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Speaker 3: I die. And I looked at the lawyers and they

350
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Speaker 3: all agreed that they believed her. I believed her, and

351
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Speaker 3: we let her stay on the jury. And after the

352
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 3: jury trial it again went back to the jury to

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Speaker 3: shake her hand, and she told me, one day, Judge,

354
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Speaker 3: I will go back to a free and fair Venezuela

355
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Speaker 3: and tell them about what real justice looks like in

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Speaker 3: an American courtroom presided over by a Venezuelan board judge.

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Speaker 3: And what I said in the article is now maybe

358
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Speaker 3: she can.

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Speaker 1: That is so incredible, and it's such an incredible demonstration

360
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Speaker 1: of the kinds of things that we take for granted

361
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Speaker 1: in so many countries in the West. We don't know

362
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: we're alive half the time, do we? With the things

363
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: we just take for granted that other people sob to experience.

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Speaker 2: Well one hundred percent.

365
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Speaker 3: And that's why, you know, it's been so frust straining

366
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: to see so many people coming out against reflexively the the.

367
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Speaker 2: Removal of the dictator.

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Speaker 3: And if you have legal arguments for it, then that's

369
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Speaker 3: I think totally fair. And I certainly won't comment on

370
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Speaker 3: those because that's a live case and I.

371
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Speaker 2: Wouldn't want to do that.

372
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Speaker 3: But I just think that if you're not Venezuelan, then

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Speaker 3: it's I think hard to understand the depths of their

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Speaker 3: despair for a protracted period of time.

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Speaker 1: Your story itself, and i'd like to finish by just

376
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Speaker 1: asking you a little bit more about that. You touched

377
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 1: on it briefly, but that's absolutely incredible what you have

378
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: managed to do. I'd imagine your parents are incredible that

379
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: generally is away, not always, but generally is the way.

380
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Speaker 2: Well, they certainly think so.

381
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Speaker 1: Just ask them, they'll tell you. Yeah, how did you

382
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: come to be? I think so? Correct me if I'm

383
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: wrong with the second federal judge of Venezuelan. Is that

384
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: right in history? And one of, if not the youngest

385
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Speaker 1: federal judge? I mean, that's insane. How did that come

386
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: to be? Where does your work ethic come from? What

387
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Speaker 1: drives you?

388
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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, a lot of it has to

389
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 3: do with luck, But I do want to talk about.

390
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Speaker 2: Where all of this comes from.

391
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Speaker 3: And you rightly identify my parents and especially my grandparents.

392
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Speaker 2: My grandparents are from Europe. During the war, they were Jewish,

393
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Speaker 2: they were.

394
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Speaker 3: Forced from their homes, saw all kinds of brutality, the

395
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 3: communities and the people that they had known, and the civilization,

396
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: the Jewish civilization of Europe that had existed for about

397
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 3: a thousand years in Eastern Europe completely destroyed in four

398
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: or five years, and they had to come to Venezuela

399
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 3: to make new lives for themselves, completely new lives, not

400
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 3: knowing the language, not knowing any of the people, and

401
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 3: not having any understanding of the business or a social environment.

402
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: And the person who made that all happen was my.

403
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,479
Speaker 3: Grandfather, izu Isidodo, who came from Romania and lived in

404
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 3: Prague and ended up in Venezuela. He took a job

405
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: as a bell hop at a hotel in Caracas when

406
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 3: he was just a teenager, didn't speak any Spanish at all,

407
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: learned Spanish, and by the end of the war was

408
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 3: the general manager of the hotel. And he was a

409
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: larger than life man and one thing that I'll never

410
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 3: forget about my career and my station in life. The

411
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 3: last time I ever saw him, he was dying of

412
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: cancer in two thousand and three. I mentioned to you

413
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: before that Ugu Chawas took power in nineteen ninety eight.

414
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: The Venezuelan Constitution was clear that a president could run

415
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: for only one five year term. So at the end

416
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: of those five years, in two thousand and three, Ugu

417
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: chaws petitioned the Supreme Court to let him run again.

418
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: The Supreme Court did their job and looked at the

419
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 3: constitution and said, actually, you can't run again because it

420
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: says you can only have one five years term. But

421
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 3: like any self respecting autocrat, He wasn't going to take

422
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: that lying down, so he packed the Supreme Court with

423
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 3: a bunch of loyalists and a petition for reconsideration. Now,

424
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: what you should know, Aaron, is that we judge as

425
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 3: we do, not like reconsideration.

426
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Speaker 2: Okay, we've decided and we've moved on.

427
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: But he petitioned for reconsideration, and what do you know,

428
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: with all his buddies on the court, they changed their

429
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: mind and said, you know what, not only can you

430
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 3: run again, you can run as many times as you'd

431
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: like forever and so and he did. But a few

432
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: days after that, a huge protest was organized on the

433
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: streets of Kadakas they said, over one million people. Now,

434
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: when we've been as well, and say one million people,

435
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: we really mean about fifty.

436
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: Thousand, but still a lot of people. Yeah, we're as well.

437
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: But it just so.

438
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: Happened that that happened to coincide with the last day

439
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 3: that I would spend with my grandfather because he was

440
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 3: very ill. He was dying of cancer and my father.

441
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 3: I was at Columbia for college, and my father had

442
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: said that I should come back because he didn't have

443
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: much time to live. So I flew back with my

444
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 3: father who was trying to arrange his affairs, and my

445
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: father was meeting with some people in the apartment, and

446
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: my grandfather, who was very weak at that time, asked

447
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: me to wheel him out onto the balcony in his

448
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: wheelchair to play chess for the last time.

449
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: He had taught me to play chess as a little boy.

450
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: So we were out on the balcony and there were

451
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: fifty one hundred thousand people out there protesting this brazen

452
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 3: power grab by the government. And he asked me, he said,

453
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 3: to your father tells me that you want to go

454
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: to law school. And I said yeah, and he said

455
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: where do you want to go. I said, well, I

456
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 3: want to go to Yale. And he said what kind

457
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: of lawyer do you want to be? And I said, well,

458
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm still in college, you know. And

459
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 3: then he looked out at the crowd so pale, I

460
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 3: think he was like eight eighty or ninety pounds by then,

461
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: and he lifted one very bony finger at the crowd

462
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 3: and he said, always remember this is what happens to

463
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: a country when good people don't serve it. And that

464
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 3: was the last conversation I ever had with him. I

465
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: came back to New York and two or three weeks

466
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: later he passed away. But it was in part because

467
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 3: of that conversation and the legacy that he and then

468
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: my father imparted to me that it was an easy

469
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: call to decide to serve my country in this way,

470
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: and to be honest, it's been a tremendous blessing.

471
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: I suspect they are the winners out of this, much

472
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: more than you are your country. I refer to America,

473
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: but that's an incredible story. It makes me feel very emotional,

474
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: and not as an American, but as someone who cares

475
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: deeply about Western civilization and who is well aware that

476
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: countries like Australia are life heavily on the strength of

477
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: the United States because we sure as hell can't get

478
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: our own national security or defense in order. So thank

479
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: you for your service, not only to your country but

480
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: to the wider Western world. And thank you so much

481
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: for joining us here and sharing a really private part

482
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: of your life, but one I think that will resonate

483
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: with so many and help a lot of people actually

484
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: understand how big a deal this is and why it matters,

485
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: particularly to the people of Venezuela. So judge, Thank you

486
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: so so.

487
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: Much, Thank you so much. Erin, It's been a pleasure.

488
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Amazing, isn't it. That is an example of the American dream.

489
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: What anyone can do with opportunity, with a chance. Huh

490
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: so impressive. And that's what the people of Iran deserve

491
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: as well. They deserve the chance to be great, and

492
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: not even to be great, not everyone wants to be great.

493
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: They deserve the chance to just be who they are.

494
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: And if that is not to go out and be

495
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: a lawyer or a doctor or a scientist, or find

496
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: the cure for cancer, it doesn't matter. That should be

497
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: their right to exist, to live safely, to dress how

498
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: they want to dress, to love their children without fear

499
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: of what might happen to them, to use their voices.

500
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: This is all coming and this is a wonderful, great thing.

501
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: So don't go silent, don't say, oh, well, that was

502
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: an exciting week. Let me move on to the next issue. No,

503
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: do not stay focused on this one. They need us,

504
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: they need us to project their voices. God willing, we

505
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: will see something very very special, very very soon. There's

506
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: a lot of rumors circulating, a lot of talk that

507
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: the US is looking at bits and pieces here and there.

508
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: We'll wait and see it happens quickly as we saw

509
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: with Venezuela. But right now, Andrew Gallilly is someone who

510
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: understands imminently what is at stake, what needs to occur,

511
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: and what happens next. So please enjoy well from the

512
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: National Union for Democracy in Iran. It gives me great

513
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: pleasure to welcome Andrew Galilly. Thank you so much for

514
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: joining me here on the Aaron.

515
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: Mullin Schow Thanks for having me owin.

516
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: It's very rare that we talk about Iran at this

517
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: current time in a positive, hopeful light. But we're here

518
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: at the moment, Andrew. We're around a week from the

519
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: first kind of moment of this, this mass protest movement

520
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: that seems to have everyone holding their breath in a

521
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: little bit excited. What has happened and what could happen

522
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: from here?

523
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: Sure, well, I'll start.

524
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 5: First of all, this is not an economic protest as

525
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 5: many one. We've seen economic protests in Iran before. This

526
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 5: isn't what they look like obviously. What's happening now started

527
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 5: as an economic protest but quickly spread into niche andwide

528
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 5: anti regime uprising. And this is what we've been saying,

529
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 5: basically since the Twelve Day War, as people have been

530
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 5: asking why are Aunti Iranians in the street. Something was

531
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 5: always going to trigger the next mass uprising. The world

532
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 5: needed to be preparing. Unfortunately, not a lot of that

533
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 5: preparation got done, but you know, we're getting there. So

534
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: just to give an update on what's happening, Protests have

535
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: been reported in twenty five provinces, over sixty cities, over

536
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 5: one hundred and seventy locations across the country. Tonight as

537
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 5: we're speaking, Tehran itself is probably the loudest it's been

538
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 5: in this over a week of protests. Importantly, one of

539
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 5: the stories that I think is being missed, of course

540
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: not by you, Aaron, but by larger mainstream media, mostly

541
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 5: in the West, is what is actually being called for

542
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 5: in the streets right across the country. Protesters are not

543
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 5: only chanting against the regime, which we've seen in protests

544
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 5: over the past decade or two, they are now chanting

545
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 5: in support of Crown Prince Rezipathamy, the opposition leader.

546
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 4: This is unprecedented.

547
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 5: We have never seen this, especially on this scale, in

548
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: the past, and of course it means the regime has

549
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 5: responded in force, with a significant number of arrests, injured people,

550
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 5: protesters killed.

551
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: In the streets.

552
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 5: On that note, I would just add President Trump's message

553
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 5: the other day was extremely important and has the potential

554
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 5: to be a game changer in the past. Of course,

555
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 5: this is another thing that makes these round of protests different.

556
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 5: In the past, the Irani people had to worry about

557
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 5: global powers, especially the United States, selling them out and

558
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 5: making a deal with the regime. Correct, And you know

559
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 5: President Biden was also negotiating with the regime around the

560
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 5: time that the Woman in Life freedom protests arose. So

561
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 5: this was a really important step to let the people

562
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 5: know I will not be doing that, which is what

563
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 5: they had been asking him for. A real game changer

564
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 5: would be, you know, if he takes the next step

565
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 5: and acknowledges the name that people are calling in the streets.

566
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: It's I mean, fascinating. Feels like the wrong word because

567
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: of what's at stake and the suffering that is occurring

568
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: and has occurred for decades in Iran. But you look

569
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: at I mean, Biden and Obama basically sold their souls

570
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: to the day when it came to this issue. President

571
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: Trump's tweet was huge in so many ways, but I've

572
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: been disappointed even watching some of them. I mean mainstream media.

573
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: I have zero expectation with the vast majority of it,

574
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: so I'm very rarely let down. But even watching Fox News,

575
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: which is generally as good as any in this space,

576
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: and it was only a night or so ago, and

577
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: the headline was, you know, economic protests, and I just

578
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: think you actually have to It's not just about telling

579
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: the truth, because we should all be doing it, but

580
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: it matters in this moment. The world must understand what

581
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: is going on to get engaged, to feel like this

582
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: is something significant. You can't pull the wool over people's eyes.

583
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: They're in the streets chanting that the Islamic regime leader

584
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: is a criminal, is a murderer. They're calling for the

585
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: return of Rezipo Lavi. They're chanting for their freedom. Without

586
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: the world amplifying their voice. Is the chance that this

587
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: just fades away again, because we've seen that happen in

588
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: the past, and not in any way a failing of

589
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: the people on the ground. They are the bravest people

590
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: in the world that they need help.

591
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 5: They absolutely need help, and that's one of the conversations

592
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 5: that we're seeing is what are the forms of help

593
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 5: that can be provided? You know, when we talk about

594
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 5: military action, of course, any discussion of military affects the

595
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 5: conditions on the ground.

596
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 4: We saw during the Twelve Day War.

597
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 5: You know, even though Israel was precisely targeting military and

598
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 5: regime assets and not civilians, people still didn't take to

599
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 5: the streets. Of course they're not going to well evacuation

600
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 5: orders are out, you know. With that said, of course,

601
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 5: when Israel struck the Irib or certain arms of the

602
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 5: regime's oppression, Iranians in the country cheered, despite what some

603
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 5: of the West might tell you, as if it was a.

604
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 4: Strike on the free press.

605
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 5: So, you know, beyond military considerations, I would say Washington

606
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 5: has a lot of tools at its disposal.

607
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: That can be implemented very quickly.

608
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 5: So internet access is central, as you're saying, amplifying the

609
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 5: people's voice and showing these messages as you see. You

610
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 5: can follow the NUFTI Twitter account. We're getting all of

611
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 5: the translated verified videos out.

612
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 4: As soon as we say.

613
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: That's great. Andrew tell us that account because I follow

614
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: so many and I'm so paranoid about whether things are

615
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: verified whether they're not, because the people who I constantly

616
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: call out don't check sources and essentially promote terrorist sources

617
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. So I'm so conscious of

618
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: not making that mistake myself. So tell, tell, tell myself

619
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: and my audience where we can go to get direct

620
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: information we can trust.

621
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 5: I appreciate that our account is n U FDI WRANNFDRAN

622
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 5: dot advocate, and you know what you just mentioned. Unfortunately,

623
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 5: it's not just the outlets that we would normally expect

624
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 5: to be doing this. There are US funded programs in

625
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 5: Persian that we're designed to serve American interests and to

626
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 5: be functioning during these moments for the Iranian people. These

627
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 5: outlets Viaway Persian Radio, Farda, they've been publishing inaccurate, old content,

628
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 5: and they not been publishing what's really happening on the street.

629
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 5: These are programs that President Trump already defunded, but they

630
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 5: could be really.

631
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 4: Really useful.

632
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, I've just followed you. It looks like

633
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: a fantastic Okay, that's amazing. Talk to me about Pallavi.

634
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: He's put out some incredible messages. He speaks so brilliantly.

635
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: The people love him clearly, not just those in a

636
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: round on the ground, but in the diaspora as well.

637
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: He's i think, for the first time, you know, gone

638
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: to giving almost specific instructions to the people. What is

639
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 1: he trying to achieve here, how can he help from

640
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: far away? And are they getting his messages on the ground?

641
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 5: I think the chants are a clear reflection that they

642
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 5: have been getting his messages. He has been consistent, more

643
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 5: than any other figure in the space over the last

644
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 5: forty plus years, fighting for one cause, which is a free, secular,

645
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 5: democratic Iran, and the people have recognized that he is

646
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 5: not only a nationalist figure, but a democratic figure. Despite

647
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 5: again what some might tell you about his aspirations, he

648
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 5: has been very clear what he's planning, which is a

649
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 5: transition to democracy in Iran, putting together the necessary steps

650
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 5: to get there, to avoid chaos. And I think that's

651
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 5: exactly what we're seeing on the streets, is that people

652
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 5: have heard that have seen that planning and want to

653
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 5: let the world know that he is who they are

654
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 5: calling for to lead that transition.

655
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: How hopeful are you that this could be the catalyst

656
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: for genuine change in Iran? And I mean, we all

657
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: have different sources, but I'm hearing over the next twenty

658
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: four hours possibly something similar to a Maduro. I mean,

659
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: who knows there's a million How hopeful are you?

660
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 5: I would say during twenty twenty two, Iranians were more

661
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 5: hopeful than ever. I think that's true again in this

662
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 5: moment on Venezuela. You know, I would make the point

663
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 5: if you listen to the press conference yesterday where the

664
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 5: Trump administration was laying out the justifications for its actions

665
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 5: on Venezuela, many of the justications do very clearly apply

666
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: to Iran. They talked about drug trafficking, they talked about

667
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 5: the direct threat to the United States through infiltration. These

668
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 5: are not abstract concerns when it comes to Iran. The

669
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 5: regime in comedy has spent decades doing all of them,

670
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 5: you know, taking hostages like Jamsheen Sharmad, transnational represh repression,

671
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 5: exploiting criminal networks, infiltrating is through Islamic centers to export

672
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 5: its Islamist anti Semitic ideology. So these are very direct

673
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 5: threats to the United States. As far as hope at

674
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 5: the moment, I would go back to this is the

675
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 5: most hopeful I think a lot of US have been

676
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 5: that there's real change to come, and a lot of

677
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 5: that is again because the people on the streets are

678
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 5: making clear that they are unified behind an opposition leader.

679
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: What is the next step. How does what we're saying

680
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: now translate into the return of Polavi, the end of

681
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: and I, and a new beginning.

682
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 5: Well, as many animus will tell you, it's unlikely that

683
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 5: street protests alone get that done. So one of the

684
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 5: things that the Crown prints and his team have been

685
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 5: working on for a while now is to get defections

686
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 5: from within the regime security forces, mid level regime officials.

687
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 5: That is essential to a peaceful transition into bringing down

688
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 5: this regime. Along with street protests, there's room for the

689
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 5: US government to help in that, but that's one of

690
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 5: the key next steps that we should be on the

691
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 5: lookout for to see if this will move forward. In addition,

692
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 5: you know, as President Trump outlined with his first tweet

693
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 5: on this when this all started, when he said, basically,

694
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 5: Iranians will come to the street one thousand, two hundred

695
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 5: thousand people, but then the regime shoots them and.

696
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 4: They go away.

697
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 5: If people stay on the street after these crackdowns, which

698
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 5: again we're seeing in Tehran tonight getting even louder despite

699
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 5: more gunfire. That will also be a clear sign that

700
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 5: these this is here to stay.

701
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: I cover this because I cared deeply and I see

702
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: the bigger picture when it comes to what a free

703
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: Iran would mean for my seven year old here in Sydney,

704
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: and for kids all over the world and the West

705
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: in general, and the Middle East. And it's not just

706
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: an Iranian issue. That would be enough, by the way,

707
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: for me to care. I care about people regardless. But

708
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: if you're trying to convince the masses why they should

709
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: feel invested in this, because they should. Everyone in the

710
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: world should feel like there's something at stake for them

711
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: in having a free Iran, because the impact in the

712
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: tentacles of this regime, the evilness of it. There's no border.

713
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: It impacts the entire globe. What would you say to

714
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: people who might think this is a far away problem

715
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't affect them.

716
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 5: Great question, I would say, first of all, for the

717
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 5: United States, for Europe, a free Iran clearly changes regional dynamics.

718
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 5: The main reason for much of our involvement in the

719
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 5: region is the regime in Iran and the destabilization it

720
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 5: causes the proxy networks that it fund. So a free

721
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 5: Iran would clearly reduce tensions and would allow US allies

722
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 5: to coordinate security without this permanent destabilizing actor. For the US,

723
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 5: that means less constant crisis management in the region, more

724
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 5: freedom to focus on higher priority issues as China, such

725
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 5: as China. Obviously, there's also a clear economic dimension, right.

726
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 5: Iran is a very large educated society with enormous unrealized potential,

727
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 5: and what we're seeing to start to pop up, which

728
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 5: is very encouraging, is things like Mark dooblu It's at

729
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: FDD committing to being the first thing thank to working

730
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 5: to lift sanctions in a free Ran, and Josh Wolf

731
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 5: of Lux Capital committing to working towards investments in a

732
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 5: free Ran. So all of these things propping up, and

733
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 5: this again goes along with the Crown Prince's Iran Prosperity Project,

734
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 5: how to rebuild the Iran's economy and to make.

735
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 4: The world benefit as a result of that. This is

736
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: all very real.

737
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 5: And practical and the potential is extremely high.

738
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: I just saw as well Prime minist net Yahoo was

739
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: referring to Silica val and how impressive the people of

740
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: Iran are how impressive are they because you're right in

741
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: that they've essentially had any hope, dreams, potential quashed.

742
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, this is It's another thing Elon Musk and

743
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 5: President Trump have both spoken about in the past. The

744
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 5: success of Iranian Americans and Iranians around the world is

745
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 5: well known and is part of the reason why it's

746
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 5: very clear that Iran would be able to be rebuilt

747
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 5: into this American partner that it was before the revolution.

748
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: Finally, what can everyday people in the US, the UK,

749
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand, what can they do right now?

750
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: Something simple that might.

751
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: Help amplify the Iranian people's voice.

752
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 5: Call on your representatives, senators, members of parliament to do

753
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 5: the same and ideally to acknowledge what the people are

754
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 5: calling for, which is conference.

755
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: Vessa Palaby, Yeah, I'm Palavi. That's a big deal. Is

756
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: and you need the legitimization of him as the next leader.

757
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: And you're right, it's not a Western nation determining that

758
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: he's the best bloke for the job. It's the people

759
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: on the ground chanting his name. But what you then

760
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: need is leaders of other democratic nations to acknowledge that

761
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: that matters, doesn't it.

762
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely Look, I can understand in the past maybe thinking

763
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 5: saying his name or you know, is picking him as

764
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 5: the American guy, right, That's that cannot be argued anymore.

765
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,479
Speaker 5: The people have made very clear what they are calling

766
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 5: for and who they are choosing. So you're not picking

767
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 5: for them, you're helping, You are amplifying who they act,

768
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 5: you know, And that's the distinction and is absolutely very

769
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 5: important as we as we see a lot of the

770
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 5: criticisms of these pasts ran in protests was that lack

771
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 5: of political unity, the lack of political organization. So now

772
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 5: that we're seeing it, it's very important that everyone call

773
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 5: it out.

774
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: We were at a funeral together recently Andrew the funeral

775
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: of Jimmy Shammad, and in creditable human being who fought

776
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: so bravely. He was taken by this regime, the Iranian

777
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: Islamic regime. He was tortured, in fact, not the Iranian

778
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: Islamic regime, the Islamic regime who took power. He was tortured,

779
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: brutally murdered, horrific for his family. What do you think

780
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: someone like him would be thinking looking down now at

781
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: what is occurring. People who have sacrificed and given their

782
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: life for what we might be on the cusp of now.

783
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 5: First of all, I would say, as you know, I

784
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 5: think he'd be very proud of his daughter and his

785
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: family for continuing to fight as they have. I know

786
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 5: we all are. Second one, I think he would echo

787
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 5: what I said, hopefully, which is that there's more hope

788
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 5: than there has been in the past because the people

789
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 5: are rising up. Yeah, you know, I would also, I

790
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 5: would just add the transactional his case was so unique

791
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 5: that they took him from Dubai and brought on top

792
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 5: of that, it goes back to what we were mentioning

793
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 5: before he was left behind by the Biden administration in

794
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 5: a six billion ransom deal.

795
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: Appalling.

796
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 4: That is not the attitude of the United States at

797
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: the moment.

798
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: No, absolutely legend. Thank you so much, Andrew. Hopefully next

799
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: time we chat things will have progressed significantly. I'm too

800
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: cautiously optimistic to say anymore, but thank you so much

801
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: for your time. Thanks Erin, ladies and gentlemen, Thank you

802
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: so so much for joining us. I know it was

803
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: a big episode. Really really appreciate your time. Please share

804
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed it, if you found it useful, educational,

805
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: if it made you feel anything, make sure you share, rate, rank,

806
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you people do with things like this.

807
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm not very tech savvy at all. I love you all,

808
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'll see you tomorrow morning early.

809
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: We've got another specialist on Iran, and we've also got

810
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: another specialist on what the implications are when it comes

811
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: to Venezuela on China, the Chinese Communist Party. It is

812
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: a fascinating space because you've got to look bigger than

813
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: just these kinds of of what's happening there and there.

814
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: It's what's happening there, And for those listening on the podcast,

815
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing big circles with my hand right now, which

816
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: is meant to kind of infer the impact is far reaching,

817
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: but in a good way. So we'll see you tomorrow.

818
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: Bye bye,