1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 2: I had no idea how ripped off I would feel 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: by God. I felt like God has not done what 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: I felt that he promised, And then I realized God 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 2: never promised that, But that was this lie that I 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: had built a lot of my faithfulness. 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: On Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 3: discussed powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small. 9 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 3: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and I understand the anxiety that comes 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 3: with what if thinking. I have also landed in situations 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 3: I desperately prayed to avoid. I imagine you have as well. 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 3: What do we do when the very thing we prayed 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 3: for that we prayed would never happen actually suddenly what 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: if becomes our reality? In that space, It's easy to 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: believe the lies that God's abandon us in our pain 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 3: and will never again experience joy and peace. But Scripture 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: as serves as that that's not the case. And today 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: we're talking about how to trust God when it feels 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 3: like everything is falling apart, Because, as my guest Beneath 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 3: the Riisner discovered when she landed in her worst case scenario, 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: God loves us deeply even there, and he always remains 22 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: our source of comfort and ever present help. No, a 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: lot of your story beneath it. You went through so 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: many challenging, deeply painful circumstances. Can you let us know 25 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: when your worst case scenario became your okay? 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 4: Here? I am. 27 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 5: Yeah. 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: I feel like there's a lot, But one that stands 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: out was after my husband had left our family and 30 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: I was single parenting two girls, and I have a 31 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: disability that is progressive, so my body was failing. I 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: wasn't even able to take them where they needed to go. 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: Everything in my life that I thought was secure had 34 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: fallen apart. And I went to this retreat center and 35 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: I brought up my heart to God, like how is 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: this even possible? 37 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: What else are you going to do? 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 5: To me? 39 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: Almost like what if I get divorced? What if I 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: lose my reputation? What if my kids walk away from faith? 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: What if my body failed? It was all happening and. 42 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: I was pretty much at rock bottom. 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: I remembered almost feeling unable to breathe because I felt 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: like I had lived a faithful in life and really 45 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: tried to honor God through all these losses, and it 46 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 2: felt like God was not living up to this end 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: of this bargain that I had kind of this contract. 48 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: I thought we. 49 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: Had both signed, but obviously I had just signed it, 50 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: which is, you do the right stuff. You know, you're 51 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: faithful in your marriage, you raise your kids in a 52 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: godly way, you pray, you bring everything to God like 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: somehow there is some sort of guarantee that it's going. 54 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: To be okay. 55 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: And my faithfulness did not keep me from any of 56 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: those things. I remember pouring that all out to God 57 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: and asking lots of what if questions, What if this 58 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: never gets better? What if I'm in a nursing home 59 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: in a few years because my body is failing so 60 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: many things? 61 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: And in that moment. 62 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: The presence of God filled my room and I sensed 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: God was like, I am telling you, even if the 64 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 2: worst happens, I will be there. And that changed it all, 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: recognizing God's presence and that that was a way better 66 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: thing to have than a guarantee of an easy life. 67 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: So fear gripped me in that moment in a way 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: that isn't that common for me. But I really was 69 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: panicking life and God met me in that moment in 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: a remarkable way. 71 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 3: Wow, there's so many things I love about what you said. 72 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: First of all, you were in a potential situation where 73 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: you couldn't care for yourself. This is going to be difficult, 74 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: this like, I don't know how I will be able 75 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: to survive if I lose all of my sources of security. 76 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: But I love that God shifted you to greater and unshakable. 77 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: Securities are fears and a lot of time our pain. 78 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: When we land in those places, it can reveal lies 79 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: that maybe we're not aware of that God wants to 80 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: bring to the surface to replace with truth. And where 81 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: we're recording this is in the United there can be 82 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 3: that message that if you do the right things, you 83 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: wouldn't be suffering this. Would you have known before this 84 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: hit that that was part of your theology. 85 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: They might have thought it was a shadow because even 86 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: the messages I sent my kids with purity culture, like 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: if you wait for marriage, then you're gonna have a 88 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: great marriage. 89 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: But I had no idea. 90 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: How ripped off I would feel by God. I felt 91 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: like God has not done what I felt that he promised, 92 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: And then I realized God never promised that. 93 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: But that was this lie that I. 94 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: Had built a lot of my faithfulness. 95 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: On the other thing, I liked about what you said. 96 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: God met you in in your doubts. Sometimes we think 97 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: when we're in that place and we're really struggling, and 98 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 3: understandably so when we are hit by so many really 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: hard things, it would be unnatural. 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 4: If you hadn't felt overwhelmed. 101 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: But sometimes we think, well, if I don't display this 102 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 3: perfect rush into the fire faith, then I'm failing. When 103 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: it sounds like the Lord's like, I see what you're 104 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: dealing with. I'm right here with you. 105 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: That's a great point because I think so much of 106 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: my life I thought prayer was like the axe formula, 107 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: you know, adoration, confessions, giving, supplication, and so you start 108 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: off with all these wonderful words of praise. When you're suffering, 109 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 2: you reverse that. You start with all that's hard, asking 110 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: God for everything, for hope, for peace, to. 111 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: Show himself to you. 112 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: And that is what leads to the presence of God, 113 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: to really praising God, to thinking God. Whereas if we 114 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: don't feel that when we start, then sometimes we think, oh, 115 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: I shouldn't pray, or we say them and our hearts 116 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: are so far from that. Isaiah talks about these people 117 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts 118 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: are far from me, and so it really required me 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: to believe, Okay, God wants me to be raw and real, 120 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: and it took me to getting to the end of 121 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: my rope to get there. Because when I'm struggling but 122 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: feel like, oh, I can pull it together and say 123 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: the right stuff, I can do it. But I don't 124 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: think my prayer feels like encountering God. It feels like 125 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: this is what Christians are supposed to do. 126 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: But when I feel that desperate that I don't have. 127 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: Time to look at a formula, all I can do 128 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: is cry out to God with everything I have, what's raw, 129 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: what's real, and recognizing that we have God's presence and 130 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: that is really the biggest sign of God's goodness. 131 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: The real GIF is the Giver. 132 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was Corey Tenboom. 133 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 3: She said, you'll never know God is all you need 134 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: until God is all you have. And I would add 135 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: you talk about God being the ultimate gift, but there's 136 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: so much encapsulated in that because with His presence comes peace, strength, power, 137 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: and provision to what our souls desperately need. That's what 138 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 3: I hear in your story. Also, sometimes in scripture will 139 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 3: read these narratives or hear somebody's stories like, Okay, she 140 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: was struggling a quick journey for you. How long were 141 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: you in that intense wrestling phase? 142 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: Would you say, I feel like I recognize that there 143 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: was hope, not in a different outcome, but hope in God. 144 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: And yet I don't think hope is like Jesus' happy 145 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: face sticker that you slap on and say, Okay, we're 146 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: all fine. It's a process of every time you're struggling, 147 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: of turning to God and saying, Okay, this is hard, 148 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: but I want to trust you or show me yourself 149 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: in the midst of this. I love Moses says to God, 150 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: show me your glory, and I have said that to God. 151 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: I need to see your glory, your presence. I need 152 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: to feel that now because I don't, and God loves 153 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: to honor that now. I don't always feel it in 154 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: an instant. It's not like I'm depressed and all of 155 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: a sudden I'm like, Wow, this is incredible. And sometimes 156 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: it takes looking around and noticing the things that God 157 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: is bringing into our life that are signs of his loves, 158 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: of his presence, because sometimes God shows us he's there 159 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: by the things that he's doing it. I would encourage 160 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: people to ask God's specific things, because when we ask 161 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: for vague things, then we never know whether. 162 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: God has actually answered them. 163 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 2: And I think we're afraid because we think, what if 164 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: God doesn't answer it, Like we are shielding ourselves from disappointment. 165 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: And I still think we need to ask, like for healing. 166 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: Maybe you won't get them, but maybe you will, and 167 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: ask God to show you his kindness and glory and 168 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: give you comfort, and then trust God will give you 169 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: what you need. 170 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: What would you say for someone who's like I don't 171 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: know if I faith can handle another disappointment? 172 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 4: What advice? 173 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 3: Having been there yourself, what advice would you give them? 174 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally get the feeling like I'm going to 175 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: shield myself and not expect anything good because it's too 176 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 2: hard to hope. But there's one verse I loved from 177 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: Psalm twenty seven that I hung on to. 178 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: Would have despaired. 179 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: Unless I believed I would see the goodness of God. 180 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: In the land of the living. 181 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 2: And I thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hang my hat 182 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: on that the goodness of God now is something so unshakable. 183 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: It is God's presence, God's care, God's tender love for me. 184 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: I was disappointed because my hope for a long time 185 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: was in a restored marriage and we got divorced, and 186 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: I felt like God was saying to me, you have 187 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: got to take your fingers off of this outcome. 188 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: I'm bigger than that. 189 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: Your hope is not in a restored marriage. Your hope 190 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: is in me, and then you will not be disappointed. 191 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: God will give us joy, maybe joy in the midst 192 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: of the but it's gonna be joy, and it's going 193 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: to be real joy in the land of the living. 194 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 3: I'm wondering because I'm listening to your story and I'm 195 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 3: thinking of some of our listeners who are going through 196 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 3: a difficult time and maybe part of their struggle is 197 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: the intensity of the emotions. And so, how did you 198 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: get to where you became increasingly comfortable with discomfort? 199 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: And my story is pretty layered, And I became a 200 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: Christian at sixteen. Life was pretty hard since I turned thirty, 201 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: and so I started becoming more comfortable with life not 202 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: being the way I wanted it to be, because for 203 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: a lot of years it. 204 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: Was, and that's what I thought faith was all about. 205 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: And so I had to. 206 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: Recognize, probably in my early thirties, that life might not 207 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 2: look like what I needed it to, but God was 208 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: going to meet me in it. Yet no I knew 209 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 2: that I was becoming comfortable with that. The collapse of 210 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: my marriage almost made me feel like I'm going back 211 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: to square one. And sometimes we feel that way in 212 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: the moment, and yet that's part of the process of faith, 213 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 2: is sometimes feeling like we're falling backwards and then recognizing 214 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: God is with us even in that. 215 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know from us having talked previously that you 216 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 3: receive a lot of comfort from Moses's journey. If you 217 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: could give for our listeners who aren't familiar with his story, 218 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 3: or maybe are more familiar with the Hollywood version, would 219 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 3: you give a bit of context for his story. 220 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then I. 221 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 3: Would love to hear what God showed you through his 222 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 3: struggle and his life. Yeah. 223 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: So the Israelites had been enslaved for four hundred years, 224 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: so God raised up Moses. 225 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: Now Moses had. 226 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: Been shopherd in Midian with his father in law, and 227 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: then he goes up to this mountain and there's a 228 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: bush that's burning and it's not consumed, and Moses stops 229 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: and looks at it, and God speaks to him and 230 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 2: calls him out of the burning bush, and that is 231 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: sort of the beginning of Moses's journey, and God leans 232 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: into Moses gives Moses this covenant name because Moses is like, 233 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: I want to know who you are, and so he 234 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: does so much for Moses and then he says, I'm 235 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 2: going to have you deliver my people, and Moses is like, what, 236 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: I can't do that one I can't speak And every 237 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: single time God keeps revealing who he is to Moses. 238 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to go with you. 239 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: He says it multiple times, and all Moses says is like, 240 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: why is he gonna listen to me? 241 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: I can't do that? And I love that story because 242 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: Moses keeps saying the what is and sometimes we do that. 243 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: God is revealing himself to us, like I'm going to 244 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: walk you through this really hard thing, or I'm going 245 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: to call you to do something, and we want to 246 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: focus on what we can do in our in strength, 247 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: and that is what Moses kept doing, like, rather than 248 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: viewing life through the lens of God's presence provision strength, 249 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: I do that as well with suffering. Don't ask me 250 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 2: to do this. I'm not strong enough. I can't do it. 251 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: And God keeps saying, remember who I am. And we 252 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: see throughout Exodus what God tells Moses how Moses becomes 253 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: the super strong leader. 254 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: For the Israelites. 255 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: But then at the beginning he's so tentative until he 256 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: really senses Wow, God, you are with me, and then 257 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: you don't see that wavering mo. 258 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 259 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: And I love all of the proofs that God gives 260 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 3: Moses as well. He gives him numerous examples, as if 261 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: the burning bush wasn't enough example of his power. But 262 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: we don't really know what Moses's faith was like, if 263 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: it was even existent. I have to believe he knew 264 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: some kind of history. And then, like you mentioned, he 265 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: was in a foreign land for forty years, and I 266 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 3: wonder if he thought he'd forfeited God's plans and had 267 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: created new plans for himself. 268 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 4: And then when. 269 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: God comes back and he's like, wait a minute, I've 270 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: got this life set up. You're telling me to do 271 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: this major pivot. So God gave him his evidence of 272 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: his power and faithfulness. He said, I'm the God of 273 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 3: their forefathers, basically, so God of history that is powerful. 274 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 3: But Moses actually told God no, instead of getting angry 275 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 3: with him and chastising him. God's like, Okay, I'm. 276 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 4: Bringing you support through your brother. Did you experience that 277 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 4: as well? 278 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: When you're in the throes of it, you had lost 279 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 3: so much of your support. Did God bring other people 280 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: alongside you to act as support? 281 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 4: And I think this is a key. 282 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: Were you able to recognize that the support you were 283 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 3: receiving was actually from God? 284 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: Yes to both. 285 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: God did bring people to walk with me because I 286 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: literally couldn't do it myself. And there were people from 287 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: my church that were driving my kids, that were helping 288 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: me in multiple ways, and I couldn't have done it 289 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: without support because there were things I just couldn't carry 290 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: on my own. I recognized, you know, I remember saying God, 291 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: I'm not as strong as you you think I am, 292 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: and Gods like, well, I'm you know. 293 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: You are not strong, but I am. 294 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: I always look at my resources and I forget God's 295 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: infinite resources. Part of God's infinite resources is often he 296 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: brings people into our lives to help us. 297 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to take a short break to hear 298 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: from our sponsors. I want to leave listeners with one 299 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: practical help to contemplate while we take our break. Perhaps 300 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 3: a way that you can gain strength for your present 301 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: season is to reflect on past moments when God carried 302 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: you through difficult situations, when He brought people into your 303 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: life at the right time. Consider that, and how can 304 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: reflecting on God's faithfulness and strengthen those times help to 305 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 3: dial down your anxiety and fear. So now let's take 306 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 3: a break. We're going to take a short break to 307 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 3: hear from our sponsors. Are When we return, another guest, 308 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: Angela Mackie, host of the Life as Worship podcast, will 309 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: be joining to share her what if to even If story, 310 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 3: how God met her in her pain and how he 311 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: used the biblical story of three men thrown into a 312 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: yiri furnace to comfort her and strengthen her fate. We're 313 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: back with Angela Mackie to talk about those painful what 314 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: if to even if situations win You're begging God to 315 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: keep you from hardship, but instead He meets you in it. Angela, 316 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 3: thank you for joining us. 317 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. 318 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 3: Angela Mackie is a child of God who longs to 319 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: make much of her Savior through her writing, speaking, engagements, 320 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: and podcasts. She encourages people to worship God with their 321 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: whole lives, even in the hardest seasons. A nerdy lover 322 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: of scripture, she earned a master's in biblical and theological 323 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: studies and shares that insight as she ministers. She and 324 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: her husband have three mostly adult kids and one international 325 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: kid they share with his family in Vietnam. Angela lives 326 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: in Arkansas with her husband and three dogs. I am 327 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: a dog lover too, so that's why we get along. 328 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: So welcome, Andrea. I am really looking forward to hearing 329 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: how God used a painful, difficult, what if to even 330 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: if scenario to deepen your faith. Can you bring us 331 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 3: back to that moment when you felt like your world 332 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 3: was coming undone? 333 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. I was waking up from a medical procedure and 334 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 5: it was a procedure for a ruptured tuble pregnancy. So 335 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 5: I had just lost a baby that I had longed 336 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 5: to have, and I woke up and I was thinking, Father, God, 337 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 5: I don't want to go through something this painful for 338 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 5: no reason at all. But also God brought to mind 339 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 5: what our pastor had been preaching on recently, and that 340 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 5: was Daniel three and these three boys standing at the furnace, saying, 341 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 5: are God's able to save us from this? But even 342 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 5: if he doesn't, we're not going to go down to 343 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: the idol you've put up no matter what. And so 344 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 5: God was showing me his hand through that. He said, Angela, look, 345 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 5: you can cling to this baby that you so desire 346 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 5: and almost hold on to it like it's an idol, 347 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 5: or you can let go and follow me through the 348 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: fire and trust me in this telling. 349 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: In your story can sound like it's like this quick, 350 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: instant thing, but I'm assuming it wasn't. What was that 351 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 3: wrestling period? Did you feel like you wrestled with him. 352 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 4: For a bit? 353 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 5: Definitely? Wait, first thing, let's be real, like it's a 354 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 5: tubo pregnancy, so and it was an emergency surgery, so 355 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 5: everything happens really fast, and it's pretty traumatic, and you're 356 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 5: waking up from anesthesia and you're alone in the hospital bed. 357 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 5: I lost half my circulating volume of blood. I could 358 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 5: have died. I had to have a blood transition. So 359 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 5: there's a lot to process through. I remember this story 360 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 5: coming to mind at the hospital. But the choosing God 361 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 5: over the idol is going to be a lifelong battle 362 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 5: in a lot of ways because there's always something that 363 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 5: we want, there's always something good that we want, and 364 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 5: we always have to choose God over that. And so 365 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 5: I wrestled with him for a long time over lots 366 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 5: of different things. And this was my first tuble pregnant 367 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 5: and see situation. I had a second one about six 368 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 5: months later, and because of that, I wasn't able to 369 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 5: conceive because they ruptured both of my tubes. So then 370 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 5: I had to go through this whole process of what 371 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 5: do we do, what treatments do we do? What does 372 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 5: God want us to do? How do we handle this? 373 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 5: This isn't fair. There was a huge wrestling thing. I'm 374 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 5: going with that, and that's another thing that God taught me. 375 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 5: It was like, look, if you're not willing to wrestle 376 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: with me, you're not close enough to hear me whisper 377 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 5: in your ear, words of encouragement, words of comfort, but 378 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 5: also words of correction when you have gone wrong. And 379 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 5: so yeah, I had to learn how to wrestle with 380 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 5: him in a way that helped me understand him better, 381 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 5: That helped me cling to him even when I didn't 382 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 5: want to, and sometimes because it just didn't feel fair, 383 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 5: and even in the darkness when things feel so yucky. 384 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 3: When you're in the hospital and everything feels so chaotic 385 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 3: and you're at a seriously weak moment. 386 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 4: Two things I'm curious about. 387 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 3: What were your fears and anxieties that were rising up 388 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: at the time, and when you sent God pointing you 389 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 3: to that story. Did it mean anything to you at 390 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 3: the time or was it more like a bookend in 391 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 3: the back of your brain that he later expanded on Goodness. 392 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 5: First, I didn't really know that I was that sick 393 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 5: that I could have died. That didn't dawn on me 394 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 5: really until much much later. But my fears and anxieties 395 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 5: were the loss of this dream, the loss of this baby. 396 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 5: There was just so much loss. I couldn't almost see 397 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 5: past my nose. Other than I knew that if I 398 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 5: had to go through something dark, I didn't want it 399 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 5: to be for nothing that held tight in me. This 400 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 5: story came to mind, And as that story came to mind, 401 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 5: it wasn't really a care angela, let this minister to 402 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 5: you and make you feel It wasn't one of those 403 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 5: although I knew that God was walking with Shadrack Meshak 404 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 5: and I've been to go in the fire, and so 405 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 5: my choice was really choosing to feel the fire or 406 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 5: choosing to walk through the fire with him. The fire 407 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 5: didn't set them ablaze, they didn't smell like it, but 408 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 5: they did have to walk through it. Some of that 409 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 5: dawned on me right away way, and that God was 410 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 5: always with me. But so much of the depth and 411 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 5: the meat of that came as I wrestled with the Lord. 412 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 3: What I'm hearing correctly is he was saying, Okay, you're 413 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 3: in this right now. You have a choice to shut 414 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 3: me out and go it alone, or to turn to me, 415 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 3: press into me, and I will walk beside you. And 416 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 3: is that what I'm hearing correctly? Yeah, I would love 417 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 3: if you give a background for those who don't know 418 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: the story of Shadrack Meshak in a Bend to Go. 419 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: Such fun names, not fun names for them, but fun 420 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 3: names for your little background as to what this story is. 421 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 5: Yes, so what's crazy is Shadrack, me Shak and a 422 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 5: Bendigo is are not there given names. These are names 423 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 5: that were given to them after they were taken into 424 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 5: captivity into Babylon. So these are Israelite boys who knew 425 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 5: who were the cream of the cream of Israelites, and 426 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 5: they were taken by King Nebeknezer in one of the 427 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 5: times when he pulled people into exile. They were were 428 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 5: smart kids, they were good looking kids, and they were 429 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 5: buddies with a guy named Daniel, which many of you 430 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 5: might know about Daniel and allions Den, and so they 431 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 5: were friends with Daniel. You have to go back to 432 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 5: understand this whole standing at the Fiery Furnace. So they 433 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 5: are with Daniel and in this place where they're really 434 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 5: trying to brainwash them away from all of the Israelites stuff. 435 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 5: We don't want you to believe that anymore. We want 436 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 5: you to be good Babylonians. And so we're going to 437 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 5: give you Babylonian names. We're going to have you eat 438 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 5: Babylonian food, You're going to wear Babylonian clothes, You're going 439 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 5: to learn all about Babylon. And now, because you are 440 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 5: smart and good looking and all this, we're going to 441 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 5: help you become leaders of Babylon in some way. But 442 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 5: Daniel was like, but God doesn't want us to do 443 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 5: some of these things. Particularly there's this diet that God 444 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 5: has for us Israelites, and he has that for a purpose. 445 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 5: And so Daniel and Shadrackmishek, and a Bendigo refused to 446 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 5: eat the food, and they did it in a polite way. 447 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 5: They said, look, this is what God wants to what 448 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 5: they asked to be tested in it. And so they, 449 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 5: for a short period of time were given only the 450 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 5: food that Israelites were supposed to eat, and they actually 451 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 5: were stronger and healthier than everybody else, and so they 452 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 5: got to eat this food. And so there's this line 453 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 5: in the sand that Daniel, Shadrack, Mee Shaq, and a 454 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 5: Bendigo all set and they said, we are going to 455 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 5: follow the Lord, even in this new place. I kind 456 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 5: of wonder in my imaginary brain. I like to think 457 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 5: that maybe Daniel and Shadrack, Meshack, and Bendigo were calling 458 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 5: each other their Hebrew names behind the scenes. Now Daniel 459 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 5: was his Hebrew name. Babylonian name was Bill Shalves Bazar 460 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 5: or something. I can never say it quite right. But 461 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 5: these boys were really trying to remember who we are, 462 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 5: and we are gods, and we are going to live 463 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 5: the way He wants us to live. Fast forward to 464 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 5: this fiery furnace thing. Daniel's off somewhere else in the Kingdom, 465 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 5: leading Shadrack Meshak and a Bendigo are in this other portion, 466 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 5: and King Nebuknezzar has now put up this giant goal, 467 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 5: the idle, and he says, look, when music plays, everybody 468 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 5: has to bow down to it, and if you don't 469 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 5: bow down to it, you're going to be thrown in 470 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 5: the fiery furnace. And Shadrack me Shack and I've been 471 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 5: to Goo are like, we are to have no other 472 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 5: gods before the God, and so we're not going to 473 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 5: do this. And of course there were people who were 474 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 5: jealous of Shadrack me Shack and have been to Go 475 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 5: and so they said, hey, King, they're not bowing down. 476 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 5: And King Nebu Canezar was not like, hey boys, let's 477 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 5: get this together. I mean, he was enraged, and that's 478 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 5: a man. You don't want to get enraged. I mean, 479 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 5: he's gonna be somebody who's gonna follow through. He was 480 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 5: pretty ruthless. It's this beautiful story. I'm going to read 481 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 5: it because the quote is so amazing. The king comes 482 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 5: up to him them and says, look, no god can 483 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 5: save you from this fiery furnace. Bow down or you're 484 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 5: going in. Is essentially what he says that's the angela version. 485 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 5: But in three sixteen Shadrack me Shack and I have 486 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 5: been to go reply to the king and they say this, 487 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 5: Neba Canezer, we don't need to give you an answer 488 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 5: to this question. If the god we serve exists, then 489 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 5: he can rescue us from the furnace of burning fire, 490 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 5: and he can rescue us from the power of you, 491 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 5: the king. But even if he does not rescue us, 492 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 5: we want you, as king to know that we will 493 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 5: not serve your gods or worship the gold statue you 494 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 5: set up. 495 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 4: That's powerful. 496 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love how you started with the two 497 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 3: parts of the story. They were already in a painful, 498 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 3: isolating foreign situation. And you have to think when Assyria 499 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 3: and then Babylonians, when they conquered ancient Israel, that was 500 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: not like a pretty I mean sometimes we gloss over it, 501 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 3: but we know what battle. 502 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 4: And war and terrorists and all of that looked like. 503 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 3: So they had to have some pretty traumatic experiences being 504 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: ripped from their country and seeing their loved ones ripped 505 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: from their country, and probably seeing some of their their 506 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 3: countrymen killed, I imagine. 507 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 5: And these were kids too, They were probably in their teens. 508 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 5: They were probably around thirteen to seventeen years old, and 509 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 5: so it would be super easy to just say, you 510 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 5: know what, God didn't save us from the Babylonians, so 511 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 5: our God must not be powerful enough. I'm gonna jump 512 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 5: jump ship with the Babylonians. And we only know of Daniel, Shadrack, 513 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 5: Mishek and a Bendigo of the four guys, of all 514 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 5: of the guys that they took who stood up and said, no, 515 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 5: we're going to live for good. 516 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 3: But when you had that passage, I wonder how many 517 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 3: listeners wrestle with that same question, maybe asking themselves the 518 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: king said God can't save you. Sometimes when we get 519 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 3: in those really hard places, that's what comes up, whether 520 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: you recognize it or maybe subconsciously, either Lord, can you 521 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 3: really save us from this? Save me from this? Or 522 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 3: why aren't you in? And that's why I also like 523 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 3: your emphasis on wrestling. They're humans, so they probably had 524 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 3: to have some kind of wrestling. But I also wonder 525 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 3: if Daniel served as a mentor for them. Sometimes we 526 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: feel like we're in this unknown, uncertain we're unprepared, But 527 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 3: in my experience, God prepares us before the fire, and 528 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: so a good step might be asking when we feel 529 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 3: like we're in the fire, A really hard situation is 530 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 3: to say, Lord, can you show me what you've built 531 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 3: into my soul for this moment? Because I suspect to 532 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 3: our listeners that you're not as unprepared for your challenge 533 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 3: or crisis as you feel. And then maybe for those 534 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 3: who are not in a difficult season, I invite you 535 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 3: to decide now before because it's going to come. Jesus 536 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: promise difficulty will come. We live in a fallen world, 537 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 3: So decide now before the next hardship hits. Who is 538 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 3: God to you? And that's a vast like that can 539 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: be a lot of wrestling. And so for you, could 540 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 3: you look back and say, Okay, the Lord really built 541 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 3: into my soul some truth that carried me through when 542 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 3: difficulty hits. 543 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, Jennifer, I have been super blessed by two 544 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 5: of the best parents on the face of the planet, 545 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 5: and they loved the Lord, and they brought me up 546 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 5: in church and I don't even really remember, by the 547 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 5: grace of God, I don't remember a time not loving Jesus. 548 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 5: So part of it is that having that kind of 549 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 5: faith that has walked me through my life just asking 550 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 5: the Lord, because it's so easy to get so comfortable 551 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 5: in the physical and the nowness that we miss out 552 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 5: on what God is really doing. And so I had 553 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 5: to learn to ask him questions like where were you working, 554 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 5: Show me your hand, help me to understand, because there's 555 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 5: so much of this life that we can't comprehend, but 556 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 5: there's also so many beautiful ways where you can see 557 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 5: that God has intersected your life. The reason I was 558 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 5: even in the city we were in at the time 559 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 5: is a God's story. I can look back and go, 560 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 5: you clearly drew us here. Then I can go, oh, 561 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 5: God had totally saved me. I can look back at 562 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 5: that day that I had that ruptured tuble pregnancy, and 563 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 5: I've been bleeding for quite a while before we realized 564 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 5: that what was going on. I would normally be home 565 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 5: alone all day with my one year old, and yet 566 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 5: that day I was never alone all day. Somebody came 567 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 5: before my husband left for work, a friend came to 568 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 5: visit before she left. Another friend came to drop something 569 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 5: off as she was leaving. My sister and my mom 570 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 5: was coming into town to help me out because we 571 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 5: knew I was having an issue, and then the fact 572 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 5: that he sent both my mom and my sister meant 573 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 5: my sister could stay home with my baby and her kiddo, 574 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 5: and my mom could take me to the hospital. I 575 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 5: can see God working in ways to save and protect 576 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 5: my life even in that really dark, hard space, and 577 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 5: so he was preparing me to see him working even 578 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 5: when I didn't understand that could. 579 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 3: Be Another good practice, too, is to later reflect because 580 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 3: when you're under anesthesia and your world is chaotic, it's 581 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: normal that maybe your thinking brain goes offline. But we 582 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: can build our faith by later reflecting on and asking 583 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 3: those questions, Lord, where were you? God has been emphasizing 584 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 3: to me, and I think is really powerful in this 585 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: story is what is my sensitivity like to his spirit? 586 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: Am I hearing his voice? 587 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 4: But I also think we have to give him time. 588 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: I like to practice silence, and I don't typically hear 589 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: him during that time of silence, but it increases my 590 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: sensitivity to his voice over time. And I like what 591 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 3: you said about the wrestling. I want one person. I 592 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 3: once heard them say that two people are never closer 593 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: than when they're wrestling. And so maybe if we can 594 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 3: shift our perspective that God meets us in the struggle. 595 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: You emphasized your parents giving you this really strong foundation. 596 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 3: And that makes me think about these men, and they 597 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 3: could have remained bitter, they could have lost a really 598 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: important legacy making moment, but instead they chose faith. And 599 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: because they chose faith, they modeled faith in really hard seasons, 600 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 3: and people are watching as we go through. I think 601 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: some of the strongest proclamations for the Gospel is not 602 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 3: when we're out speaking to large crowds and launching ministries 603 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: and explaining Bible versus in complex ways, but when we 604 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 3: are simply holding tight to Jesus when our world is 605 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 3: falling apart. 606 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 5: Yes, because when we're in the midst of it, like 607 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 5: you said, your brain doesn't function right, you've got your 608 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 5: fight or flight. You know, you've got all of the 609 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 5: things going. There are ways you can help ground yourself 610 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 5: and calm yourself down with the help of the Holy Spirit. 611 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 5: But if you don't have a foundation with the Lord, 612 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 5: it's just going to be a lot harder. And so 613 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 5: I really feel like what comes out in those really 614 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 5: hard times is what we've been building in the easier 615 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 5: That's a good point. And so if we haven't been 616 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 5: asking God when things are easier. Where are you? What 617 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 5: are you doing? If we haven't been in His word 618 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 5: to know who he is, if we haven't been sometimes 619 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 5: meditating on what Jesus did for us on the cross 620 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 5: and how the Lord took what is the worst and 621 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 5: most hatin is saying that people would murder God and 622 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 5: he used it for our good. If nothing else, that 623 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 5: should make us step back and go God can do 624 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 5: anything with anything. 625 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 3: Amen, and honest wrestling leads to deeper trust, suppression and 626 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 3: forced hallelujahs, which sometimes we're trained to do in the 627 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 3: church that often. 628 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 4: Leaves us stuck. And it's in. 629 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 3: That wrestling, in the really hard that that's where God 630 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 3: deepens our faith, not necessarily when our circumstances changed, but 631 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 3: when we find our true anchor. And what I hear 632 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 3: in your story and definitely what we see in Daniel's 633 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 3: story is there was a fourth man in the fire. 634 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: Scripture says, and scholars believe that was Jesus before he 635 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: came in human form, present with them in the fire. 636 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 3: And that goes back to your your sensitivity. How are 637 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 3: you prioritizing God? Our faith grows as our connection with 638 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 3: Christ deepens. I'm gonna piggyback on what Angelas said here 639 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 3: to our listeners, A good question is to consider, how 640 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 3: are you building not just your head knowledge And it's 641 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 3: really good to have truth built into your head, that's great, 642 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 3: but your relational intimacy with Christ and your spiritual sensitivity 643 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 3: to His leading, and if you're not sure, if that 644 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 3: feels new or foreign to you, and if maybe you're 645 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 3: in a faith practice that doesn't really emphasize that. I 646 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 3: just encourage you to ask Him and say, Lord, show 647 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: me one way, not five hundred, show me one way 648 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 3: this week. I can begin to connect with you relationally 649 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 3: and then follow through. So this story, what they proclaimed 650 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: through their faith, what they revealed through their faith. Can 651 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 3: you imagine what that must have been? Like? 652 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 5: I can't. And what's crazy is you see King Nebknezzar. 653 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 5: Even then, this is a king who is setting up 654 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 5: a god saying I am better, I am higher than God. 655 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 5: And his response is amazing. And it's later in chapter 656 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 5: three he's like, look, there's foreman in the fire and 657 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 5: he's totally freaking out. And then he says, praise to 658 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 5: the God of shadrack me shak and a bendigo. This 659 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 5: is in verse twenty eight, by the way he sent 660 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 5: his angel and rescued his servants who trusted in him. 661 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 5: They vitolated the king's command and risk their lives rather 662 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 5: than serve or worship any god except their own. And 663 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 5: then he goes this, Therefore, I issue a decree that 664 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 5: anyone of any people, nation, or language who says anything 665 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 5: offensive against the God of Shadrack Meshak and a Bendegul 666 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 5: will be torn limb from limb, and his house won't 667 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 5: be made a garbage dump, for there's no other god 668 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 5: who is able to deliver like this. 669 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so a whole pagan nation. And you look back 670 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 3: to God's strategic positioning, there is such power, peace, hope, 671 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 3: and joy when we review our circumstances through Lord, how 672 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,479 Speaker 3: are you using this in a beautiful and glorious way? 673 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 3: And if you fast forward, scholars believe that the wise 674 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: men who came to visit Jesus that they learned of 675 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: the prophecy of his coming because of this Babylonian experience. 676 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 3: So to the ancient jew they're like, this is horrible. 677 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 4: Why would God allow this? What in the world is 678 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 4: he doing? But then you fast. 679 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 3: Forward and you're like God was bringing life and hope 680 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 3: to an entire nation that were were enslaved to darkness. 681 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 5: Yes, it's such a beautiful picture of God's heart for everyone. 682 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 5: He wasn't only out for the Israelites. He was always 683 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 5: out for all of humanity. And so you see him 684 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 5: drawing people out of Israel who never would have left. 685 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 5: They think that there's a school that Shadrack, Mishakam Indigo 686 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 5: and Daniel likely helped found in Ba, that the match 687 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 5: I came from. That these are the guys who were 688 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 5: looking at the stars and looking at these prophecies and 689 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 5: understanding things because of what Shadrak, Mishak and Bendigo and 690 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 5: Daniel did all of those hundreds of years before. So 691 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 5: you see God's beautiful hand weaving things together for good. 692 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 5: That does not mean that that furnace was good. I 693 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 5: can guarantee you that we can say things are bad 694 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 5: because they really are bad. It's not like some Pollyanna 695 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 5: thing that God is. Oh, you know, like those tupe 696 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 5: of pregnancies. I would never say they were good. They weren't. 697 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 5: I experienced severe pain. I almost died. It was such loss. 698 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 5: But you know what, God used those things in my 699 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 5: life to weave together some beautiful things, and so he 700 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 5: used them for good, but they were not good. And 701 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 5: that's the difference. 702 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 3: Right. Also, the Jewish people were in exile because they persistently, 703 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: blatantly rejected God Almighty. But there's grace even in that. 704 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 3: He's like, I'm not gonna leave you, and he blessed 705 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 3: them Jeremiah twenty nine. I think it's verse five. He said, 706 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 3: bloom basically where you're planted, build homes, and so he 707 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 3: gave them life there and he's remained with them in 708 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 3: the hardship. And I'm really struck by when we choose 709 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 3: to let faith rather than fear drive our actions. And 710 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 3: I'm not saying don't be afraid, but what is driving you? 711 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 3: What is driving your actions? It strengthens the faith of 712 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 3: those who are watching us in the struggle, and we 713 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 3: have an opportunity to show what it looks like to 714 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 3: experience God's strength in our weakest moments. And I'm but 715 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 3: there is tension here. So how do we continue to 716 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 3: maintain hope when we have no guarantees? You lost a pregnancy, 717 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 3: but you maintained your hope. 718 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 4: So where is that tension? 719 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? 720 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 5: Because you know the thing is is he could have 721 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 5: saved the baby, because I know if this God is 722 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 5: who he says he is, he's all powerful. So that 723 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 5: baby did not have to implant in my two In fact, 724 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 5: the second one didn't have to, and even if they had, 725 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 5: he could have miraculously saved them in some way, but 726 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 5: he chose not to. However, you want to think through that. 727 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 4: Some people are like, she's another wrestling wrestle with that, so. 728 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 5: We don't have to think through all the in deep, 729 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 5: deep detail. But that's the truth. And so since that's 730 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 5: the God that I say I believe in, then how 731 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 5: do I love a god who's able to give me 732 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 5: the desires of my heart but isn't How do I 733 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 5: love a god who is willing to strip me down 734 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 5: to what feels like absolutely nothing and allows it to 735 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 5: happen in some way. Yeah, and that's where you have 736 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 5: to say. But he's also the god who created the universe. 737 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 5: He's also the god who said, I love you so 738 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 5: much that I'm going to send my son to live 739 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 5: the perfect life. I'm going to send my son to 740 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 5: die the most horrific death in an unfair trial. He 741 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 5: is a god who can do so many things, but 742 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 5: I have to trust that he's also a god who 743 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 5: does plan for good even through the evil, who does 744 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 5: is close to me in the brokenness, who says I 745 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 5: am the God of all comfort. And so the question becomes, well, 746 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 5: to whom else can we go? If much like the 747 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 5: disciple said, you know, when Jesus is like, hey, all 748 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 5: these people are leaving me, are you gonna what are 749 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 5: you gonna do? And they said, to whom else can 750 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 5: we go? You have the words of eternal life, And 751 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 5: so to whom else can I go? 752 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 2: God? 753 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 5: I have to trust that you really are that good, 754 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 5: and I don't know what's happening. 755 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 3: Right, And I would say too, trust is built over 756 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 3: time and through relationship. That's where that relationship peace becomes 757 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 3: increasingly important. 758 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 4: But if you don't fully. 759 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 3: Trust God yet, that's okay. Tell him just like Lord, 760 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 3: I don't really know who you are. I don't know 761 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 3: if I believe that you're good, because this doesn't feel good. 762 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 3: As long as you are wrestling with him, doubt does 763 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 3: not have to be your destination. It can actually be 764 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 3: a pathway to intimacy with the Almighty and to increase faith. 765 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,879 Speaker 3: And sometimes hope isn't rebuilt by change circumstances, but by 766 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 3: remembering God's unchanging nature and when our circumstances feel shaky 767 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,959 Speaker 3: and uncertain, the Lord remains a firm foundation beneath our feet. 768 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 3: And that's that's what he did for you. As we 769 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 3: close out, do you have one one step they could 770 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 3: take this week to build their hope or increase their 771 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 3: trust in Christ. 772 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 5: I think the biggest one is, God, where have you 773 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 5: been working in my life? Show me where you've been 774 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,479 Speaker 5: if you do know and you're like, but I don't 775 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 5: like how he's working, because that's a true and honest 776 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 5: place to be. That's where you have to say, God, 777 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 5: I see you working and I don't like this, and 778 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 5: sit in that because, like you said, the more honest 779 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 5: you are with that, the better you are. But here's 780 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 5: the other thing. So many of us don't know who 781 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 5: God is because we don't know Bible. Yes, we don't 782 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,399 Speaker 5: know the Bible at all. We don't know how he's 783 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 5: behaved in the past, so we don't have an imagination 784 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 5: for how he might behave in the future. So I 785 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 5: just dig into the word start and psalms, maybe because 786 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 5: that's where all of the emotions are, and see what 787 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 5: the psalmists are saying, because they're saying things like I 788 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 5: feel like I am weary, like my bones are melting 789 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 5: within me, and I don't understand where you are. And 790 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 5: then they turn and say, why so downcast on my soul? 791 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 5: Put your hope in God right, or say but you 792 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 5: are faithful, but you are unchanging. You'll see how the 793 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 5: Lord works. 794 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say two to read Daniel chapters one 795 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 3: through three, and if you don't know how to find that, 796 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 3: just do a Google search Daniel one to three and 797 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 3: you'll pull it up. And as you read, I would 798 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 3: encourage you to pay close attention to what does this 799 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 3: reveal about God's promises, his character, and his heart and 800 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 3: invite him into that. Say, Lord, show me your promises, 801 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 3: your character, and your heart, and I'm gonna again give 802 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 3: it time. We want instant answers, and so often the 803 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 3: growth comes in the wrestling, as uncomfortable as it is. 804 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 3: As we close, I will say, God never abandons you 805 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 3: in your hardship. He meets you within it. And like 806 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 3: those men in the fire, you may long for rescue. 807 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 3: He might rescue you, but he will give you something 808 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 3: even better, something more powerful. That's his presence. And with 809 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,280 Speaker 3: his presence comes power, peace, and provision. As you trust 810 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 3: Him to meet you in your pain and learn to 811 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 3: more deeply and consistently receive His love. 812 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 4: Your faith will deepen. This has been such a great conversation. 813 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us. 814 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me, Jennifer. 815 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,720 Speaker 4: I encourage our listeners. 816 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 3: If you'd like extra support, grab my Free when Fear Strikes, 817 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 3: a seven day reset for anxious hearts, and sign up 818 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,879 Speaker 3: for my daily free Quieting Fear with Faith emails both 819 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 3: links below, and they will help you stay grounded in 820 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 3: God's truth and grace each day, and remember you are 821 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 3: not and never will be alone. Let God meet you 822 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 3: in your questioning, strengthen you in the struggle, and rebuild 823 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 3: your hope as you learn to live as one who 824 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 3: truly has been set free.