1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:03,420 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the March or Die show today. 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:08,619 Speaker 2: Glad to have you joining me. And this is a 4 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: special episode. We have recorded one episode already here at 5 00:00:13,020 --> 00:00:16,060 Speaker 2: the NorCal Men's Conference. This is our second recording and 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,660 Speaker 2: second episode and super excited about the conversation we're about 7 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: to have. Got a great guest and I look forward 8 00:00:22,780 --> 00:00:25,610 Speaker 2: to sharing his story with you. Well, I'll ask him 9 00:00:25,630 --> 00:00:27,470 Speaker 2: to share his story. I won't do it, but he'll 10 00:00:27,490 --> 00:00:29,690 Speaker 2: share his story with you. But man, we've had a 11 00:00:29,710 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: good day already and we just finished the conference. It's 12 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 2: been pretty awesome. A bunch of men filled this auditorium, 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,820 Speaker 2: gathered together, and just super cool to see men who 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,739 Speaker 2: care about being men, being the men of God that 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,769 Speaker 2: they were called to be, being the husbands and fathers 16 00:00:45,790 --> 00:00:48,610 Speaker 2: that God wants them to be. And so it's been great. 17 00:00:48,729 --> 00:00:51,690 Speaker 2: But I had the opportunity to speak, which was awesome. 18 00:00:52,090 --> 00:00:54,090 Speaker 2: It's always awesome. I don't know if it's awesome for 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,570 Speaker 2: anyone else, but it's always awesome. Yeah. Yeah. 20 00:00:56,630 --> 00:00:59,230 Speaker 1: Maybe, maybe it's awesome when we finish speaking and they're like. 21 00:00:59,390 --> 00:01:03,750 Speaker 2: Right, I'm done. And then, but, uh, I enjoyed it. Um, but, uh, 22 00:01:03,850 --> 00:01:07,730 Speaker 2: to open today was, uh, my guest, Daniel Ritchie. Um, man, 23 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: thanks for taking time to do this today. Yes, sir. 24 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for the invitation. 25 00:01:10,459 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. We, um, don't, well, we haven't known each other. No. 26 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: Until today. Yeah. 27 00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:16,420 Speaker 1: Yeah. 28 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: But I feel like we've known each other for a 29 00:01:17,420 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: long time. 30 00:01:17,819 --> 00:01:20,180 Speaker 1: I mean, it's true. You know, I, I think like 31 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:24,310 Speaker 1: sort of, I think shared sort of, just I think 32 00:01:24,410 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: mind frame sort of situation. I think it just makes– 33 00:01:28,250 --> 00:01:31,670 Speaker 1: you just spent this past session talking about brotherhood and 34 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: I think that sort of– that shared value system, that 35 00:01:35,180 --> 00:01:39,089 Speaker 1: shared way of almost like viewing the world, viewing trials, viewing– 36 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,940 Speaker 1: I think it instantly just sort of– it brings you 37 00:01:41,980 --> 00:01:43,940 Speaker 1: together with a dude maybe that you've known for all 38 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: of six hours. 39 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: Right. Well, it's funny. I was listening to your session 40 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: when you opened this morning and I was like, man, 41 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: it seems like we talked because it was– it really– 42 00:01:53,660 --> 00:01:57,580 Speaker 2: out of, um, Romans 15. Yeah. Prepared the ground for 43 00:01:57,860 --> 00:02:01,020 Speaker 2: the entire day of the conversation on brotherhood. And so, yeah, 44 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: it was really neat, um, how God does that. But, um, man, 45 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,660 Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to meeting you for a long 46 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:10,510 Speaker 2: time and thankful that Ben, who's in the auditorium right now, cleaning. 47 00:02:12,010 --> 00:02:15,190 Speaker 2: He's multitasking. Who also set up and, uh, organized and 48 00:02:15,250 --> 00:02:19,820 Speaker 2: oversaw the conference, got us together. Um, So some people 49 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,419 Speaker 2: will be watching, some people will be listening to this podcast. 50 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,650 Speaker 2: So for those that are listening and not watching and 51 00:02:26,690 --> 00:02:30,030 Speaker 2: don't know your story, right? Uh, you were born without 52 00:02:30,150 --> 00:02:34,250 Speaker 2: arms and I want you to just tell that story. But, um, 53 00:02:34,889 --> 00:02:37,810 Speaker 2: God has worked in your life. You became a Christian, uh, 54 00:02:38,180 --> 00:02:42,660 Speaker 2: as a young person, but now have the opportunity really 55 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: through your story to minister to thousands and thousands of folks. And, um, 56 00:02:48,990 --> 00:02:51,710 Speaker 2: I know people could find your story. They could read 57 00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:54,950 Speaker 2: it or listen to it. But I just felt compelled 58 00:02:54,970 --> 00:02:57,250 Speaker 2: to sit down and just say, hey, tell us what 59 00:02:57,310 --> 00:03:01,030 Speaker 2: God did and what he continues to do in your heart. 60 00:03:01,410 --> 00:03:03,889 Speaker 2: I think people can look at someone like you and say, man, 61 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,100 Speaker 2: it's amazing what God did. But it's not a well 62 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,179 Speaker 2: you only go to once. 63 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:10,100 Speaker 1: Right, right. 64 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,279 Speaker 2: God has to continue to do the work in all 65 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,100 Speaker 2: of us. And so it's, I think, easy for people 66 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,540 Speaker 2: to look at someone like you or whatever, people who 67 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,490 Speaker 2: are leading in ministry. And, I mean, you exude joy 68 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,930 Speaker 2: when you talk. And people can look at that and go, oh, 69 00:03:23,169 --> 00:03:25,110 Speaker 2: I could never have that or God could never do 70 00:03:25,130 --> 00:03:27,390 Speaker 2: that in my life. But it's an ongoing discipline. It's 71 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:31,730 Speaker 2: an ongoing work that God does. But just tell your story. 72 00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:35,550 Speaker 2: For those that don't know you, aren't familiar with kind 73 00:03:35,570 --> 00:03:37,630 Speaker 2: of the background of your story. And I'd love to 74 00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:40,170 Speaker 2: hear your faith story, too, because it's super awesome. Yeah. 75 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,910 Speaker 1: Well, so I, I guess the, the, my story obviously 76 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:46,870 Speaker 1: starts at the, at the very beginning, but I think 77 00:03:46,910 --> 00:03:50,470 Speaker 1: that it's almost like the, the apex of my story 78 00:03:50,570 --> 00:03:53,950 Speaker 1: in a roundabout way. Uh, you know, I was born 79 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:57,630 Speaker 1: without arms and that my disability was never picked up 80 00:03:57,850 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: on in utero. So mom had healthy pregnancy, two ultrasounds. Um, 81 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,300 Speaker 1: you know, she was, she was told she was going 82 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: to have a healthy baby boy, just like I have 83 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,670 Speaker 1: an older brother. um, that, uh, he's a, he's, he's 84 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: army EOD. So he's like, he's a, he's a psycho. Um, but, uh, 85 00:04:15,860 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: so they, they just thought, so they, they just thought, oh, okay, we're, 86 00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: we're going to have another one of those. And, um, 87 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,100 Speaker 1: and so when I was born, that was, that was 88 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:27,570 Speaker 1: the first sense that they knew something was wrong. Obviously 89 00:04:28,050 --> 00:04:30,950 Speaker 1: from the, just the visual assessment of things, they, they 90 00:04:31,010 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: instantly knew, oh, he doesn't have arms. And then, I 91 00:04:35,779 --> 00:04:37,539 Speaker 1: think in a matter of seconds, everybody in the room 92 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:40,229 Speaker 1: picked up on the fact that basically I was born dead, 93 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:44,510 Speaker 1: wasn't breathing, wasn't moving. And the doctor's instant response was 94 00:04:44,610 --> 00:04:46,730 Speaker 1: to look at my father. And then he asked my dad, 95 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:47,890 Speaker 1: do you want us to let him go? 96 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:48,929 Speaker 2: I think just. 97 00:04:48,850 --> 00:04:53,049 Speaker 1: Assessing the situation was just like, should we bother? 98 00:04:53,330 --> 00:04:55,650 Speaker 2: It's wild. I don't want to stop you, but I'll 99 00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:58,630 Speaker 2: stop you. So I've watched your videos. I've heard you 100 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:00,610 Speaker 2: talk about this. And then I heard you talk about 101 00:05:00,630 --> 00:05:01,190 Speaker 2: it this morning. 102 00:05:01,310 --> 00:05:01,589 Speaker 1: Yeah. 103 00:05:01,910 --> 00:05:06,230 Speaker 2: That's a wild question to look at a parent. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. 104 00:05:06,250 --> 00:05:07,050 Speaker 2: Ask that question. 105 00:05:07,290 --> 00:05:10,310 Speaker 1: Well, and I mean, it's, you know, now being on this, 106 00:05:10,450 --> 00:05:12,890 Speaker 1: this side of the whole situation, um, you know, it's 107 00:05:12,910 --> 00:05:16,210 Speaker 1: like the more, the more we see that it's just 108 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:18,970 Speaker 1: like for, for us as a culture of comfort, you know, 109 00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:24,029 Speaker 1: especially in the States, um, the, the single greatest trigger 110 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: for abortion in the United States is disability found in utero. 111 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,060 Speaker 1: I think for, for some reason or another, the medical 112 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:36,250 Speaker 1: community just thinks, well, why, why bother? 113 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:39,570 Speaker 2: So a doctor that would ask that question is probably 114 00:05:39,610 --> 00:05:41,950 Speaker 2: the same guy that would have had an ultrasound picked 115 00:05:41,970 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: it up. 116 00:05:42,510 --> 00:05:42,770 Speaker 1: Yeah. 117 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,300 Speaker 2: Said, I'm sure you guys want to. 118 00:05:44,450 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you know, in the same way if 119 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: Down's is found in utero or, you know, so many, 120 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,220 Speaker 1: some of these other issues, I mean, I think for 121 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: them that was just a, it was less of an, 122 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,620 Speaker 1: I think an ethical and just more of a practical 123 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:04,610 Speaker 1: sort of assumption. And, um, You know, praise God dad didn't, uh, 124 00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: dad didn't need the opinions of a doctor. He, he just, 125 00:06:08,180 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean, instantly almost just went into dad mode. I 126 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,020 Speaker 1: think his instinct was just like, that's my kid and 127 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:16,620 Speaker 1: you need to do whatever you, you can to, to 128 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,330 Speaker 1: try to bring him back. And, um, I mean, man, they, so, 129 00:06:20,570 --> 00:06:22,780 Speaker 1: you know, once my dad gave that response, he I 130 00:06:22,820 --> 00:06:25,420 Speaker 1: think less than two minutes they had to work on me. 131 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: And I was back to wiggling and kicking and screaming, 132 00:06:28,490 --> 00:06:30,830 Speaker 1: you know, God, God had, God had just saved me 133 00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:34,110 Speaker 1: in that moment. And, and that, like that glimpse, that, 134 00:06:34,190 --> 00:06:36,849 Speaker 1: that was, that was like the sort of warrior my 135 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:42,050 Speaker 1: dad was for me, like in those days moving forward. Um, 136 00:06:42,130 --> 00:06:44,510 Speaker 1: just cause you know, that was not the first person 137 00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:47,089 Speaker 1: that thought less of me or that, that wasn't the 138 00:06:47,130 --> 00:06:49,990 Speaker 1: first time I needed somebody to, you know, stand in 139 00:06:50,010 --> 00:06:53,250 Speaker 1: the gap for me or to be my challenger. And so, 140 00:06:53,730 --> 00:06:58,770 Speaker 1: you know, I went through my formative years with my 141 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: dad just being the sort of dude that he just knew. 142 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:07,380 Speaker 1: I think, again, just this paternal instinct was he knew 143 00:07:07,620 --> 00:07:11,660 Speaker 1: if they did everything for me, then, yeah, I would 144 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:15,530 Speaker 1: be helpless. And so, His mantra was just like, figure 145 00:07:15,570 --> 00:07:19,260 Speaker 1: it out, find a way. And, um, and so he 146 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: was my challenger. Mom was my encourager. And so they 147 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:25,260 Speaker 1: played off of each other well. Um, but man went 148 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: through life. Um, I guess seemingly normal. I did what 149 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,740 Speaker 1: everybody else did. I just had to approach it from 150 00:07:31,780 --> 00:07:36,590 Speaker 1: a different route, but you know, hit every developmental milestone, 151 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: same time as everybody else, like walking, eating, writing, went 152 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: to normal public school, you know, got my license at 16. 153 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,230 Speaker 1: Just all the things, man. I mean, there's not... There's 154 00:07:49,290 --> 00:07:52,150 Speaker 1: not too much I can't do. Like, it's pretty much 155 00:07:52,330 --> 00:07:57,100 Speaker 1: like basketball. And then I can't, as much as I fly, 156 00:07:57,220 --> 00:08:00,620 Speaker 1: I can't buckle the seatbelt on the plane. And so 157 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: I always feel bad for my seat, mate. 158 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:07,990 Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, man. You did tell a story earlier 159 00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:12,150 Speaker 2: about putting together IKEA furniture. Yes, yes. Mad props to 160 00:08:12,210 --> 00:08:15,190 Speaker 2: you because I can barely do it with– you said 161 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,790 Speaker 2: this was made for– I forget how you said it. 162 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: People with thumbs or something? 163 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:18,580 Speaker 1: Yeah. 164 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,460 Speaker 2: I've got them and I can barely get that furniture together. 165 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: Well, and I mean it's like– I think in all honesty, 166 00:08:22,580 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was getting into before I 167 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:30,630 Speaker 1: told my wife. And so that one's on me. But yeah, 168 00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:34,350 Speaker 1: in there, you would kind of– you mentioned the faith 169 00:08:34,390 --> 00:08:38,170 Speaker 1: story too. So I grew up in a Christian household. 170 00:08:39,910 --> 00:08:46,110 Speaker 1: But man– I think I allowed my circumstances to dominate 171 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:49,610 Speaker 1: my understanding of the love of God. Even though mom 172 00:08:49,630 --> 00:08:52,570 Speaker 1: and dad took me to church, shared the gospel with 173 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:57,530 Speaker 1: me a ton, I just, in all honesty, in my mind, 174 00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:59,610 Speaker 1: just could not get over the fact, why did God 175 00:08:59,650 --> 00:09:02,730 Speaker 1: make me like this? There was just, there's a lot 176 00:09:02,770 --> 00:09:06,230 Speaker 1: of layers of hurt and bitterness and just, I couldn't understand. 177 00:09:06,650 --> 00:09:13,250 Speaker 1: And so just, that just led to bitterness, which I 178 00:09:13,290 --> 00:09:21,580 Speaker 1: think led to isolation, depression, just suicidal ideation, just, just 179 00:09:21,620 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: through probably from 13 to 15, just hated my life. And, um, 180 00:09:28,179 --> 00:09:31,619 Speaker 1: and just really, man, that, that was just who I 181 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,090 Speaker 1: was for, for those years was just isolated, spiteful, hateful, 182 00:09:36,130 --> 00:09:39,819 Speaker 1: And I don't know why this kid that, you know, 183 00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:44,540 Speaker 1: we were sitting in our biology class Friday afternoon. And 184 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:45,860 Speaker 1: he's like, hey, man, we're going to do this thing 185 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:49,020 Speaker 1: at my church tonight. You should come hang out. And 186 00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:53,390 Speaker 1: it was like, you know, in the youth ministry world, 187 00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:55,550 Speaker 1: we call it a lock-in. You know, basically, you just 188 00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:57,470 Speaker 1: take a bunch of teenagers, stuff them in a room. 189 00:09:57,530 --> 00:09:58,370 Speaker 2: Lock them in the building. 190 00:09:58,530 --> 00:10:01,100 Speaker 1: Oh, man, give them an insane amount of cannabinoids. They 191 00:10:01,140 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: don't have to sleep. It's just chaos. Yeah. And so 192 00:10:03,970 --> 00:10:06,420 Speaker 1: he invited me to that. I was like, chaos sounds great. 193 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,929 Speaker 1: And so I show up at this thing. And it 194 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:11,790 Speaker 1: was a dodgeball event, which he had left out. And 195 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:16,310 Speaker 1: so I just get pummeled. And I think... You know, 196 00:10:16,330 --> 00:10:18,189 Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, the Lord kind 197 00:10:18,210 --> 00:10:22,370 Speaker 1: of used it to humble me in some ways. And 198 00:10:22,450 --> 00:10:25,429 Speaker 1: so I went off and pouted in the corner of 199 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:29,700 Speaker 1: this gym. And that led the student pastor who had 200 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: organized this whole thing. He just comes over to me 201 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,980 Speaker 1: and we start. I mean, honestly, I hit him up 202 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,740 Speaker 1: because I'm talking to this guy and, you know, he 203 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,740 Speaker 1: had introduced himself as Pastor Dan. 204 00:10:43,059 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: That was his name. 205 00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:46,730 Speaker 1: And in my mind, I thought, well, a pastor must 206 00:10:46,770 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: know Jesus really well. So I asked him, why doesn't 207 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,660 Speaker 1: Jesus love me? You know, again, just turn into my circumstances. 208 00:10:55,260 --> 00:10:57,700 Speaker 1: And this dude takes more than an hour and he 209 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: just biblically lays out for me the love of God, 210 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:05,179 Speaker 1: both from, you know, just his creation of me, his 211 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: grace towards me. He lays out the gospel. And I mean, 212 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:11,110 Speaker 1: that was really, he centered the conversation on the fact 213 00:11:11,150 --> 00:11:14,339 Speaker 1: that it's like, Jesus loves you enough. that he dealt 214 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,620 Speaker 1: with the greatest issue in your life, which is your sin, 215 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: and just walks me through all of Romans. And that 216 00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:24,340 Speaker 1: night was, you know, the moment that I trusted in 217 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,970 Speaker 1: Jesus as my Lord. And that was the game changer 218 00:11:28,010 --> 00:11:30,990 Speaker 1: for me, both in terms of, you know, just understanding 219 00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:35,090 Speaker 1: my personal worth, identity, hope, strength, peace, joy. I mean, 220 00:11:35,130 --> 00:11:39,110 Speaker 1: it's like it wasn't an overnight thing, but in those 221 00:11:39,170 --> 00:11:43,220 Speaker 1: days and weeks and months to come, There was just 222 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,090 Speaker 1: this swelling of hope. You know, a lot of those 223 00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:54,650 Speaker 1: dark clouds of darkness and depression. I had to work 224 00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:58,730 Speaker 1: through some stuff, but that was the touchstone moment that 225 00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: really allowed just all of that to begin to fade away. 226 00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: So crazy. Do you keep in touch with that pastor? 227 00:12:06,030 --> 00:12:12,030 Speaker 1: I do some. He's out of ministry now. And he 228 00:12:12,070 --> 00:12:17,689 Speaker 1: actually suffered a pretty tragic brain aneurysm a few years ago. 229 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:20,069 Speaker 1: And so just, you know, a lot of things sort 230 00:12:20,110 --> 00:12:25,050 Speaker 1: of limiting relationship in there. But, you know, I still 231 00:12:25,090 --> 00:12:26,630 Speaker 1: keep tabs on him on social media. 232 00:12:26,670 --> 00:12:29,350 Speaker 2: So, yeah. It's funny the people God uses in our 233 00:12:29,410 --> 00:12:32,010 Speaker 2: lives and just being faithful, right? Just being faithful to 234 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: what they've been called to do. That's right. And you 235 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 2: mentioned that this morning, there are some people who will 236 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,090 Speaker 2: never write a book, will never, you know, get credit 237 00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:44,150 Speaker 2: for that. Yeah. But it wasn't really about credit anyhow. 238 00:12:44,210 --> 00:12:44,570 Speaker 1: No. 239 00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:45,350 Speaker 2: And faithful. 240 00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:48,530 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, especially for like the, you know, the 241 00:12:48,830 --> 00:12:52,050 Speaker 1: folks listening, it's like for those of you that are dads, 242 00:12:52,130 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: that are moms, you know, it's like anytime you ask 243 00:12:57,700 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: a kid who's the most important person in their life, 244 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,819 Speaker 1: more often than not, it's, it's your parents. And I mean, 245 00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: to realize at the end of the day, you are 246 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,620 Speaker 1: at least one person's hero on the face of the earth. 247 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,350 Speaker 1: And I don't think that that's something to, to just 248 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,689 Speaker 1: consider small potatoes. You know, I mean, you, you, you 249 00:13:18,770 --> 00:13:21,670 Speaker 1: are the sun and the moon for at least one 250 00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:23,870 Speaker 1: human being on the face of this planet. And I'd 251 00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:26,710 Speaker 1: say at the end of the day, that matters for 252 00:13:26,770 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: you to, to clearly decisively invest in. 253 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,650 Speaker 2: And You know, the work that we do through the 254 00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:36,010 Speaker 2: Mighty Oaks Foundation, we work with veterans and service members 255 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:39,150 Speaker 2: and first responders. And most of the people who attend 256 00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: our programs have been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress or combat 257 00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:46,220 Speaker 2: trauma issues. Some of them haven't been diagnosed with that, 258 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: but they're living that out. And kind of the presenting 259 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: problem is because of this thing that happened in uniform, 260 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:59,059 Speaker 2: whether I was a first responder or a veteran service member, 261 00:13:59,650 --> 00:14:01,690 Speaker 2: This thing that happened in uniform has caused these things 262 00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:03,630 Speaker 2: to happen in my life. But once you start to 263 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:07,250 Speaker 2: peel the onion and get back to like, let's figure 264 00:14:07,290 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: out where this actually started. It's got to be 80% 265 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: of the people who come to us because of trauma 266 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,950 Speaker 2: related to their work suffered trauma in their childhood. Wow. 267 00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:24,850 Speaker 2: I can't tell you the number of stories I've heard 268 00:14:24,890 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: from men who said, my dad– didn't do this. My dad, 269 00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: you know, whatever. And just go down the list of 270 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,730 Speaker 2: things and no judgment. Those dads were probably dealing with 271 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,250 Speaker 2: things on their own and didn't know how to be 272 00:14:37,260 --> 00:14:39,590 Speaker 2: good fathers and who knows, whatever. And then there are 273 00:14:39,610 --> 00:14:42,890 Speaker 2: some very bad situations where fathers, you know, did treat 274 00:14:42,930 --> 00:14:46,190 Speaker 2: their children terribly, but, but the impact that a dad, 275 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:50,810 Speaker 2: dad and mom both, but you know, so many men, 276 00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:54,570 Speaker 2: the impact their dad had on them carried into their 277 00:14:54,610 --> 00:14:57,609 Speaker 2: adult life. Right. And then when they dealt with other things, um, 278 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: Other traumatic events, they had no concept, no way to 279 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:06,250 Speaker 2: even process those things because they were so broken down 280 00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,310 Speaker 2: by a father who should have protected, who should have 281 00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:09,210 Speaker 2: stood up for them and didn't. 282 00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:09,990 Speaker 1: Yeah. 283 00:15:10,070 --> 00:15:10,510 Speaker 2: It's wild. 284 00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:14,530 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you know, again, to just consider both the, 285 00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:19,310 Speaker 1: you know, the blessing that you can be for your kids, 286 00:15:19,370 --> 00:15:22,970 Speaker 1: but also just the absolute hindrance in life you can 287 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: be if you're not willing to– I think consider the 288 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,620 Speaker 1: investment and the call that parenthood truly is. 289 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:36,260 Speaker 2: That's crazy. Hearing the story about your dad, you know, 290 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,070 Speaker 2: when the doctor asked him that question and then they, 291 00:15:39,330 --> 00:15:42,130 Speaker 2: then your parents told you about that later on. 292 00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:42,530 Speaker 1: Yeah. 293 00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:47,170 Speaker 2: And so you, I'm, I'm, I'm projecting, I guess you 294 00:15:47,190 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong, but so you get an 295 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:50,380 Speaker 2: image of your dad then as the one of the 296 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,940 Speaker 2: very first moments of your life is standing in the 297 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,420 Speaker 2: gap for you, is protecting you, is defending you. You 298 00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:00,859 Speaker 2: wonder how, fast forward to this lock-in where you're talking 299 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,990 Speaker 2: to a youth pastor or a pastor, and he starts 300 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,890 Speaker 2: to talk about God being good in spite of your circumstance. 301 00:16:08,270 --> 00:16:09,990 Speaker 2: You know, I think so many of our images of 302 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:13,010 Speaker 2: God the Father are formed by seeing our earthly father. 303 00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:16,350 Speaker 2: Had your father not been who he was, would you 304 00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:18,810 Speaker 2: have even been in a place that you could have received... 305 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:23,590 Speaker 2: The news. No, God's good in spite of what you're 306 00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:23,950 Speaker 2: dealing with. 307 00:16:23,970 --> 00:16:27,930 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And I think to me, that was almost the, 308 00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:33,750 Speaker 1: I just think such the interesting gap, you know, maybe 309 00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:38,830 Speaker 1: in seeing how good, how protective my father was. And 310 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,430 Speaker 1: me just never making that connection, that picture of the 311 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:46,710 Speaker 1: Heavenly Father, you know, just being that for us, both 312 00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:49,930 Speaker 1: in the gift of Christ and in His presence in 313 00:16:50,010 --> 00:16:53,530 Speaker 1: our life. For some odd reason, it took 15 years 314 00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:58,670 Speaker 1: for me to make that sort of connection. But you 315 00:16:58,770 --> 00:17:03,650 Speaker 1: are right. My dad really was that living picture of 316 00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:06,469 Speaker 1: that agape love that the Father shows us. 317 00:17:06,510 --> 00:17:13,090 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. Um, man, it's, it's, it's pretty awesome too. Yeah. Yeah. 318 00:17:13,170 --> 00:17:17,100 Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome. At what point did you, uh, make 319 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: the decision to go into ministry or feel a call 320 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 2: to go into ministry? 321 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: Man, it was like, it was like 10 months after 322 00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: getting saved. 323 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:24,660 Speaker 2: So not long. 324 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: No. Cause it was just, I mean, truly night and 325 00:17:28,660 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: day difference. I think just in terms of like a 326 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,459 Speaker 1: sense of joy, a sense of peace, like Jesus, Jesus 327 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,830 Speaker 1: changed my life. I mean, just radically. And I think 328 00:17:39,869 --> 00:17:43,170 Speaker 1: the more I started to think on it, the more 329 00:17:43,290 --> 00:17:48,389 Speaker 1: I just, I really thought, man, I want everybody to 330 00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: know this life-changing good news. But part of me too, 331 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:57,170 Speaker 1: I had positioned a lot of my life up until 332 00:17:57,210 --> 00:18:00,859 Speaker 1: that point. I wanted to, I wanted to go into law. 333 00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:02,420 Speaker 1: I want to make a lot of money. And so 334 00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:04,980 Speaker 1: it's like, I was already like, I was in speech 335 00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:08,449 Speaker 1: and debate. I was taking like, uh, law classes in 336 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,290 Speaker 1: high school. I mean, I was just, I was set 337 00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:13,990 Speaker 1: and I was like, Lord, word on the street is 338 00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:17,820 Speaker 1: pastors don't make a lot of money. And, uh, and so, 339 00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, it just, just really, really wrestling, you know, with, 340 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: with that for, for a few months. But I, but 341 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,820 Speaker 1: I think it really was just the, to see God's 342 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,419 Speaker 1: fingerprints on my life and to just see the evidence 343 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,100 Speaker 1: of how radically a life can change because of the 344 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,260 Speaker 1: work of Jesus. I thought, man, I want to spend 345 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: the rest of my days introducing folks to this amazing Savior. 346 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I had stuff to work through, 347 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:52,180 Speaker 1: like being an introvert and not being a natural communicator, 348 00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:55,470 Speaker 1: but the Lord the Lord really buffed out those rough 349 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: edges in the, in, in the years to come. 350 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: What was your parents, how did they respond to, to that? 351 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: It's hilarious. Cause like, you know, mom, mom just knew 352 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,330 Speaker 1: mom was like, yeah, I, I've been waiting. 353 00:19:08,410 --> 00:19:08,850 Speaker 2: Yeah. 354 00:19:08,890 --> 00:19:11,369 Speaker 1: She's like, you know, mom had, mom had been praying 355 00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:13,909 Speaker 1: for that. Um, you know, I think ever since I 356 00:19:13,930 --> 00:19:16,889 Speaker 1: was little, she just, And I think a lot of moms, 357 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:20,939 Speaker 1: they always operate within that space. Like my child's going 358 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,780 Speaker 1: to change the world, you know, but mom really did 359 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: have this bizarre sense of just, I, you know, she 360 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: would always say, I knew you were going to go 361 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: into ministry. I knew God was going to do something 362 00:19:31,340 --> 00:19:34,260 Speaker 1: with a life that he literally brought back from the dead. 363 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,300 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So pivoting though, from that, from 364 00:19:41,340 --> 00:19:45,150 Speaker 2: youth ministry and kind of church ministry, That's a pretty 365 00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:50,060 Speaker 2: safe kind of place to do ministry. Yeah. To doing 366 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: what you do now. Right. What was that conversation with 367 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: your wife like? 368 00:19:54,369 --> 00:19:57,109 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I didn't want to do it 369 00:19:58,270 --> 00:20:02,590 Speaker 1: just because I'm highly relational, especially to the people most 370 00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:06,609 Speaker 1: important to me. And I knew pretty quickly, I was like, if, 371 00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:09,780 Speaker 1: if you're going to make a living out of, you know, 372 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,700 Speaker 1: just traveling and speaking, you're going to travel and speak 373 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: a bunch. And, uh, and so I didn't want to 374 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: do it. And, um, and I'll never forget, I got together, 375 00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:22,330 Speaker 1: we were living in Charlotte, North Carolina at the time. 376 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:25,710 Speaker 1: And I got together three guys that were just like 377 00:20:26,369 --> 00:20:29,790 Speaker 1: dudes I trusted implicitly. One was like, uh, he was 378 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:32,810 Speaker 1: an elder at a, at a church, uh, in town, uh, 379 00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:35,169 Speaker 1: One of them was one of my best friends. Another, 380 00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:37,750 Speaker 1: he ran a Christian parachurch ministry. 381 00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:39,149 Speaker 2: And we just. 382 00:20:39,010 --> 00:20:43,860 Speaker 1: Sat down for like three hours. And basically I was like, okay, 383 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,990 Speaker 1: here's what I feel like the Lord's leading me into. 384 00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:51,820 Speaker 1: Am I clinically insane? Because honestly, I wanted them to 385 00:20:51,859 --> 00:20:53,899 Speaker 1: talk me out of it. That was really my goal. 386 00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: All three of those dudes were, I mean, I'll never 387 00:20:57,780 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: forget one of them, my buddy, he's a Christian businessman. Um, 388 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: but he looked at me and he's like, I feel 389 00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: like if you don't do this, you're running from God. Well, 390 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:10,700 Speaker 1: I was like, great. I don't want a Jonah moment, 391 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,419 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't, I don't want a whale 392 00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:15,500 Speaker 1: to eat me. Um, and, uh, and so I'll never 393 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,109 Speaker 1: forget those guys just prayed over me. And, uh, and 394 00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:22,149 Speaker 1: they're like, brother, we're, we're behind you. And to your point, 395 00:21:22,270 --> 00:21:24,889 Speaker 1: I walked back in the house and I'll never forget. 396 00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:27,330 Speaker 1: My wife had just finished up dinner with the kids. 397 00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:30,570 Speaker 1: She was washing dishes and I came up behind her 398 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:33,060 Speaker 1: and I was like, I need you to sit down. 399 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 2: We've got to. 400 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: Have, we've got to have a really difficult conversation. And, and, 401 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,699 Speaker 1: you know, I laid it out to her and she 402 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,990 Speaker 1: was like, well, if, if this is what you feel 403 00:21:44,030 --> 00:21:46,890 Speaker 1: like it is, if, if, you know, she, she knew 404 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:48,950 Speaker 1: all three of those guys really well. And she was like, 405 00:21:49,010 --> 00:21:51,530 Speaker 1: if they really feel like this is, this is where 406 00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:54,149 Speaker 1: the Lord's leading, then, then I'm in. And, you know, it, 407 00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:58,690 Speaker 1: it has its stresses, you know, um, but I think 408 00:21:58,890 --> 00:22:01,700 Speaker 1: eight years in, uh, you know, we have definitely just 409 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,940 Speaker 1: seen the, the fruit and the fingerprints of God just 410 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: all over just this, this ministry path that he's given us. 411 00:22:09,859 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 412 00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 413 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,909 Speaker 2: I always, uh, half joke that, the best way to 414 00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:17,369 Speaker 2: have a good marriage is to marry well. That's right. 415 00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:20,210 Speaker 2: Like it's always going to be hard, but you marry well, 416 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:21,030 Speaker 2: that gives you a lot of freedom. 417 00:22:21,050 --> 00:22:23,030 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh man. And I mean, it was just like, 418 00:22:23,530 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, it was such a gift. Even, even when 419 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:28,980 Speaker 1: my wife and I met, I think now at this point, 20, 420 00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: 21 years ago, you know, one of the things in 421 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:35,260 Speaker 1: just talking with her, she, she was just, um, she 422 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,530 Speaker 1: was a hundred percent convinced that God had called her, 423 00:22:38,770 --> 00:22:40,510 Speaker 1: even when she was a teenager, that God had called 424 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:42,510 Speaker 1: her to be a pastor's wife. And so I think, 425 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,180 Speaker 1: she already had this sort of, I don't know, just 426 00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:51,300 Speaker 1: this mentality of, you know, life is not going to 427 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,610 Speaker 1: be quote unquote normal, you know, and she had talked with, 428 00:22:56,010 --> 00:22:59,030 Speaker 1: you know, plenty of other, you know, women that were 429 00:22:59,070 --> 00:23:01,369 Speaker 1: ministry wives. She knew what she was getting into. She 430 00:23:01,410 --> 00:23:05,630 Speaker 1: knew the cost. She knew the weight of the call. 431 00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:07,940 Speaker 1: And I think in a lot of ways, the Lord 432 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: just prepared her even for this season that it was 433 00:23:10,580 --> 00:23:14,050 Speaker 1: going to be stressful and abnormal, but you know, the 434 00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: cool thing about her too, she is a, um, she's 435 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: an Enneagram eight, um, which is like sort of a 436 00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:26,690 Speaker 1: take charge, no holds bar, knows what she wants. Like, 437 00:23:27,470 --> 00:23:29,270 Speaker 1: she doesn't, I mean, at the end of the day, 438 00:23:29,369 --> 00:23:31,850 Speaker 1: she doesn't need me. Like if I, you know, I 439 00:23:31,869 --> 00:23:34,110 Speaker 1: get hit by an asteroid tomorrow, she's like. 440 00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:34,929 Speaker 2: Things will move on. 441 00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: All right, let's do it. I mean, she loves me, 442 00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: but you know, it's like she, the, the, the house 443 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:44,060 Speaker 1: will not fold. You know, she, she really is. She's 444 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: built for this in so many ways. 445 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,260 Speaker 2: Yeah. That's great. Um, uh, I'm sure when you talk, 446 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,460 Speaker 2: you know, you're going to speak for a week here 447 00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 2: and next week. So you're on the road a lot. 448 00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:58,060 Speaker 2: You're speaking a lot. I would imagine you have the 449 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: opportunity to speak on hardship, uncertainty, fear, I would imagine 450 00:24:05,060 --> 00:24:06,649 Speaker 2: looking down the road. I don't know how this is 451 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:09,070 Speaker 2: going to work out. What are some of the principles 452 00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:12,590 Speaker 2: that have been important to you and that you share 453 00:24:12,609 --> 00:24:14,969 Speaker 2: to other people who are dealing with just maybe those 454 00:24:15,010 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: same moments? Why does God not love me? Or why 455 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: does God not care about me? Or why would God 456 00:24:18,859 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 2: allow this to come into my life? 457 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,540 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the, you know, the biggest principle I 458 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: always speak toward is just identity. You know, my, my, 459 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,660 Speaker 1: my struggle in my early years was just, I tried 460 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,109 Speaker 1: to find my worthiness in a, as a man in 461 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:37,810 Speaker 1: the words of others. Um, and, and the thing, you know, 462 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:42,390 Speaker 1: and in doing that, that created just this rollercoaster of worth. Either, 463 00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:46,729 Speaker 1: either I was this inspirational guy that had overcome all 464 00:24:46,770 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: these things, or I was this gross, broken, disabled person. And, um, 465 00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: and so just falling, falling into that trap for such 466 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,310 Speaker 1: the longest time, um, you know, the, the words of Paul, especially, 467 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:09,690 Speaker 1: you know, Philippians chapter one, Philippians chapter three, Philippians chapter four, where, 468 00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:12,109 Speaker 1: where Paul's just really, I mean, he says in Philippians one, 469 00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:14,850 Speaker 1: to me, to live is Christ. Um, you know, he 470 00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: says in Philippians three, ultimately that, that he wants to 471 00:25:18,340 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: find himself in Christ. And I love that picture there. 472 00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:27,429 Speaker 1: knowing both of who Paul was, this terrible man, this 473 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: persecutor of the church, this self-righteous zealot, to a guy 474 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: who is also probably the, in the human aspect of things, 475 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: the most important figure in church history, that he doesn't 476 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,900 Speaker 1: find himself in either side of that coin. He doesn't 477 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,030 Speaker 1: find himself in being the amazing minister of the gospel 478 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:56,990 Speaker 1: person He's not haunted by the self-righteous ravager of the 479 00:25:57,010 --> 00:25:57,530 Speaker 1: church he. 480 00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:58,010 Speaker 2: Used to be. 481 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:02,550 Speaker 1: He's just simply who Christ is and what Christ has 482 00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:05,770 Speaker 1: done in his life. And I think for us in 483 00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:12,500 Speaker 1: this life, the defining characteristic of who we are is Christ. 484 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: He is our hope. He is our joy. He is 485 00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:21,300 Speaker 1: our strength. Everything else is subsequent to that, you know, 486 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,750 Speaker 1: and I always put it to people like this. I'm 487 00:26:26,790 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: not an armless Christian. The first word there, the first modifier, 488 00:26:31,859 --> 00:26:35,180 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we define our whole 489 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,859 Speaker 1: story by that. Whether it's my armlessness or I'm a 490 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:48,330 Speaker 1: veteran or I'm dealing with this sort of tragedy or 491 00:26:48,369 --> 00:26:52,660 Speaker 1: this is my ethnicity. We always put the modifier before Christ. 492 00:26:53,180 --> 00:26:57,540 Speaker 1: And that leads, I think, a lot of times to disappointment. 493 00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: You know, for me, Christ is the most important part 494 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,050 Speaker 1: of who I am. The armless piece is just the 495 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,290 Speaker 1: refining aspect in the story. And so I think for 496 00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:10,629 Speaker 1: a lot of us listening, you're not what you've done 497 00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:15,810 Speaker 1: and you're not what has happened to you. That refines, 498 00:27:15,890 --> 00:27:20,210 Speaker 1: that shows, that reveals Christ. more of both who we 499 00:27:20,330 --> 00:27:23,380 Speaker 1: are and more of both who God is. But don't 500 00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: stake everything of who you are in terms of what 501 00:27:27,859 --> 00:27:31,300 Speaker 1: you possess, what you have done, or what you're going 502 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: to pursue. And so, yeah, I speak a lot to 503 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: that identity piece. I speak a lot to just, I think, 504 00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: having this, I think, just real satisfaction in the life 505 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,700 Speaker 1: that we have. And what I mean by that, it's like, 506 00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:59,590 Speaker 1: you know, again, to use my armless situation, people, if 507 00:27:59,630 --> 00:28:01,990 Speaker 1: you ask people, you know, Hey, what are some things 508 00:28:02,010 --> 00:28:03,429 Speaker 1: that stand out about you? You know, a lot of 509 00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:07,190 Speaker 1: people mentioned joy, like you, like you did earlier. But 510 00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:09,210 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the, the thing that people need 511 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:13,419 Speaker 1: to know too, I'm, I'm not always the happiest person 512 00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:17,390 Speaker 1: in the room. You know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not 513 00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:20,450 Speaker 1: the guy where it's like, yay, I'm armless, you know, 514 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: like this, um, this, this, this whole, this whole exterior 515 00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:29,540 Speaker 1: is coming at a cost, you know, to, to me, to, 516 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,219 Speaker 1: to my wife, to my kids. And so there are 517 00:28:34,260 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: times where it's just like, I, I grieve this. Like I, 518 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:42,270 Speaker 1: you know, the, the, the Bible term is like, I, 519 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:45,330 Speaker 1: I lament, like just God, this is hard. 520 00:28:45,730 --> 00:28:45,870 Speaker 2: Yeah. 521 00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: God, I never would have chosen this. Um, and, and to, 522 00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:55,070 Speaker 1: I think to see that within the pages of scripture, 523 00:28:56,210 --> 00:29:00,270 Speaker 1: God gives even the Christian, like the, the robust pursuing 524 00:29:00,350 --> 00:29:03,750 Speaker 1: Christ Christian, that he gives us the space for it 525 00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:06,990 Speaker 1: to not be okay, for it, for it to be awful, 526 00:29:07,290 --> 00:29:11,700 Speaker 1: for it to be something that we can't fix. But, 527 00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: but in, in, in the same sort of piece to, 528 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: to still know, That at the end of the day, 529 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: it's okay because the outcome of my story is not 530 00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:26,220 Speaker 1: dependent on me. It's dependent on Him. My story is 531 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,830 Speaker 1: dependent on the One who called all of creation into being. 532 00:29:30,990 --> 00:29:35,410 Speaker 1: My story is dependent on the One who all Jesus 533 00:29:35,470 --> 00:29:39,250 Speaker 1: knows is victory. Victory over sin, victory over death, victory 534 00:29:39,770 --> 00:29:43,220 Speaker 1: over over illness. Like you can just go through that. 535 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,780 Speaker 1: That's who I've trusted my life to. And so it's like, 536 00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:52,650 Speaker 1: I can hold these two truths intention that it, that 537 00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:56,590 Speaker 1: it's not great, but that it's going to be okay. And, 538 00:29:56,750 --> 00:30:00,420 Speaker 1: and to speak to that sort of, um, I think 539 00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:02,940 Speaker 1: that's sort of contentment, you know, is sort of the 540 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:06,020 Speaker 1: word that Paul uses in Philippians 4. I'm going to 541 00:30:06,060 --> 00:30:09,620 Speaker 1: be content, whatever the situation that I find myself in. 542 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,150 Speaker 1: I don't have to be giddy. I don't have to 543 00:30:12,190 --> 00:30:16,930 Speaker 1: be slap, you know, knee slapping, sort of joyful. But 544 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:19,190 Speaker 1: I can be content because I know who I've trusted 545 00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:19,790 Speaker 1: my life to. 546 00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: So good. It's almost, there's a sense for, I think, 547 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 2: some Christians where they feel almost an imposter syndrome if 548 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: they do experience some kind of joy in the midst 549 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: of loss or hurt or brokenness or whatever, or the 550 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,780 Speaker 2: other way around because of what's going on in my life, 551 00:30:38,820 --> 00:30:41,260 Speaker 2: there's no way I could experience joy. Right. To be 552 00:30:41,340 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 2: able to hold those two things in tension. Yeah, yeah. 553 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:50,340 Speaker 2: I mean, that's an important perspective. It's okay to have 554 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: a broken heart, but to also have the peace that 555 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,100 Speaker 2: passes understanding. 556 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's like so many of the– 557 00:30:58,130 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: the biblical figures that you see in Hebrews 11 that 558 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,940 Speaker 1: are held up at like, here's the rock stars of faith. 559 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: All of them have pretty tragic backstories, you know, from 560 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:18,220 Speaker 1: Moses to David to Joseph. Like, I mean, there's betrayal, 561 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: there's loss, there's just substantial sin. And yet through it all, 562 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:29,140 Speaker 1: you see God in a lot of ways, picking those, 563 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: those folks up and just carrying them to the finish line. And, 564 00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:38,780 Speaker 1: and yet we, we still see in Hebrews, they're, they're 565 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: this picture of faith, even though God did all the work. 566 00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:47,110 Speaker 2: But they were not always faithful, you know, but their. 567 00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:49,930 Speaker 1: Life, even though it had times of loss and times 568 00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:54,250 Speaker 1: of doubt and times of just wandering there, there's still 569 00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:56,670 Speaker 1: this part of their story where they came back to 570 00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:59,970 Speaker 1: their first love. And so I think, you know, for, 571 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,130 Speaker 1: for a lot of our, a lot of our folks listening, some, 572 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:10,340 Speaker 1: sometimes this section of our story is not characterized by faithfulness, 573 00:32:11,980 --> 00:32:14,020 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of the heroes we look 574 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: to in scripture at different points along their path to 575 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: the same can be said of them. 576 00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:25,820 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. People have said one of the proofs that 577 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,050 Speaker 2: the Bible is true is that the heroes in the Bible, 578 00:32:29,090 --> 00:32:32,070 Speaker 2: we know all the bad stuff too. Because if you're 579 00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:33,770 Speaker 2: writing a book about heroes, you don't give them all 580 00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:38,310 Speaker 2: the bad stuff, right? But yeah, I mean, the stuff 581 00:32:38,510 --> 00:32:42,340 Speaker 2: that they endured or the decisions that they made and 582 00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: yet continue to come back to God again and again 583 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,270 Speaker 2: and again. And what an important lesson. It's it's okay 584 00:32:49,290 --> 00:32:52,190 Speaker 2: to fall down. It's just not okay to stay down. Right. 585 00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:53,790 Speaker 1: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. 586 00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, I love those stories. And, you know, you 587 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 2: come to the end of Hebrews 11, it talks about 588 00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: the others, the people who never experienced the victory. But 589 00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:06,580 Speaker 2: then in the beginning of chapter 12, our attention is 590 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: called back to those people as the witnesses, the testimony, 591 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,380 Speaker 2: the people who've gone before us, the example that we're 592 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,170 Speaker 2: supposed to follow. And it's so hard to put tragedy 593 00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:22,170 Speaker 2: and brokenness and hurt in a context that we can 594 00:33:22,210 --> 00:33:25,110 Speaker 2: understand because God doesn't look at the world the same way. Right. 595 00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and the author of Hebrews, 596 00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: he's going to go on in verse two to just 597 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:38,460 Speaker 1: lay aside everything, every, every sin, everything that just, um, that, 598 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,700 Speaker 1: you know, that word entangles basically just becomes this burdensome weight. 599 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:47,570 Speaker 1: I think for us to just learn this, um, this 600 00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:51,130 Speaker 1: rhythm of just being able to lay things down, to 601 00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:54,110 Speaker 1: lay good things down, to lay bad things down. Like, 602 00:33:54,650 --> 00:33:57,530 Speaker 1: you know, you, you just spent this whole past session 603 00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: in terms of brotherhood and just being able to, you know, 604 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: talking about this aspect of seeing relationships is what, what 605 00:34:06,380 --> 00:34:08,060 Speaker 1: do I bring to the table? You know, how can, 606 00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: how can I invest in others? And I think too, 607 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,140 Speaker 1: it's having, having a level of brotherhood to where, at times, 608 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: like Paul says in Galatians 6, I can just lay 609 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,259 Speaker 1: my burdens at their feet, you know, and likewise to 610 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: be able to have them do that for me. That 611 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,670 Speaker 1: sort of picture, you know, that the author of Hebrews 612 00:34:30,850 --> 00:34:35,470 Speaker 1: is getting to, that great cloud of witnesses all had that, 613 00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:41,489 Speaker 1: you know, David had Jonathan, Moses had Aaron, you know, 614 00:34:41,530 --> 00:34:44,980 Speaker 1: it's like over and over and over, none of these 615 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: heroes of the faith were heroes in a vacuum. Yeah. 616 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,260 Speaker 2: They didn't do it alone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. 617 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,450 Speaker 2: It's good, man. I appreciate you sharing your story and, 618 00:34:54,910 --> 00:34:58,890 Speaker 2: and obviously doing this. I saw that you were going 619 00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:00,930 Speaker 2: to be here and want to take the opportunity to 620 00:35:00,950 --> 00:35:02,330 Speaker 2: sit down and record it and get it out for 621 00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:05,549 Speaker 2: other people to hear your story as well. Where can 622 00:35:05,590 --> 00:35:09,110 Speaker 2: people learn more about, more about you, people that would 623 00:35:09,130 --> 00:35:09,750 Speaker 2: like to have you come. 624 00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:15,330 Speaker 1: Speak or, Yeah, my website's a good touchstone point for that, danielritchie.com. 625 00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:19,510 Speaker 1: And then I'm like, I guess I'm like every millennial. 626 00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:21,850 Speaker 1: I'm on most of the social media. 627 00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: Put my name in, you'll find it. 628 00:35:23,610 --> 00:35:26,620 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know I always tell people if they forget, 629 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: if you just Google Daniel No Arms, I guarantee you, 630 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: you're going to find me. 631 00:35:32,340 --> 00:35:35,299 Speaker 2: You'll find it. Somebody's pushed it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 632 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,830 Speaker 2: for sure. That's cool. Man, I appreciate it. Thank you. 633 00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:38,270 Speaker 1: Yes, sir. 634 00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:41,629 Speaker 2: Thank you. All right. Everybody listening, watching, thank you for 635 00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 2: doing whichever one you're doing. Really appreciate it. Look forward 636 00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 2: to talking to you next time.